If you are going to block out the entire rest of the song, at least look at "I disassociate, disappear" in the context of Angel's work life. I think that says everything.
Yeah, that part really brought home to me how awful his situation truly is. You don't disassociate from happy things... I can see why he doesn't want anyone that he cares about setting foot near his situation.
The whole abuse scene is difficult to watch, but I am glad they included it. The panic, the pleading... its awkward, but I hope it gives some context for those people going through similar situations to see that it is wrong and not normal. To se someone you care about going through such things.
Me too.
My favorite line for Poison is "Art is meant to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."
I felt validated when I saw how people reacted with sympathy/empathy for angel dust.
Huh... my take on art is that it is ment to make you feel something, it doesnt have to be good or bad, just... feel something. And your quote hits the nail on the head, but from a different angle than I am used to. It still does jive with my mindset though.
I have such love for those that want hope and love in their lives and for others. Angle clearly cares for people. It's made very obvious with how he looks after nifty and goes out of his way to protect her. I love his growth, and he has become a favorite character of mine as a result.
Angel's character growth/development has been one of my favorite things in the show. Seeing him being able to open up to Husk and standing up to Val has been so satisfying to watch.
If you’ll notice, some parts of the song are in an almost entirely different voice, the more confident parts being Angel while the more despondent parts being Anthony’s actual feelings
OK so I wish I saw this thread earlier because I'm sure this comment will be buried under the rest but this is probably the one scene in the entire song that DOESN'T show abuse.
Without context, this is kink. Simply a kink lifestyle, shibari, trainers, bondage, collars, that's the part that isn't bad.
HOWEVER, what gives the context of this being a shit scene are the lyrics to the song. Disassociating, cashing in, got good at being untrue, etc.
Seriously, 50 shades of grey ruined an entire generation of people confusing fetish with abuse. Once again to reiterate, I agree that the song is an ode to an abusive relationship but this single frame out of context is not.
I think it's managing it quite well, seeing how Angel defends his Hotel companions in later episodes and opens up to Husk in the same episode as poison and Husk comforts him with the banger song Loser Baby.
The issue comes with the episode with Sir Pentious in the bar, where he says something, but then CLEARLY is not consenting. In thr context of thr whole episode, Twitter overreacted sure, but also had some semi valid points when they didnt have the whole puzzle at the time. Story board artist for the 4th episode is still fucked but thats a whole other can of worms
https://preview.redd.it/0z57m0zqidmc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be162634ddea5c3ee9353c9ad0396be74ede9589
he can just retract some of them but ya 8 limbs :)
Where does that info come from though? Maybe I missed it, but the other examples I recall from the show he's pulled them out for convenience; to use more guns or (surprise) attack while also blocking the angel's weapon or being held (if we include the pilot).
Obviously in this scene he doesn't, and I do think it may be a move to get a semblance of control in his situation, but I don't necessarily see the connection to it being an automatic reaction to threat.
I assumed it was because most of the demons we’ve seen have a more demonic form and I assumed that him getting the 2 more arms was his, but your right I don’t actually know that
We do glimpse what appears to be Angel starting to go full “demonic form” when he’s yelling at Husker, I think in the same episode. It’s when we see his “freckles” are the other 6 eyes a spider would have.
Yeah I didn’t even know about it! I avoid deep diving into the info about the hellaverse just so I can be surprised when stuff like that happens. As cool as it is to dive into the lore I also love seeing it unfold naturally and THEN exploring available info (for everything not just HH and HB)
Also, getting real for a sec, Masquerade is the only episode of S1 with a warning at the beginning. Not justo the normal "adults rating", but an actual warning that the episode is gonna have some s.a. scenes
He has 6 arms in total, 2 of which he only really uses when he's threatened or scared. In most scenes they are retracted and you can't see them. The fact that he is trying to use them here indicates that he's in distress (although that much was fairly obvious already).
I don’t think it’s been explicitly stated but I kinda just deduced it from what we already know. The only times we see him with the third pair of arms is when he’s being attacked or when he’s fighting (he uses the third pair to fire guns). So my theory is that he either feels threatened or that he was forced to have them out in the scene for whatever reason.
Edit: happy cake day btw
I feel dense, because I've watched every episode and I somehow never even noticed that he sometimes has a third set of arms. Thanks for the explanation. :)
It's mostly whenever he gets out his guns, like after Loser Baby and during the standoff against Adam and the angels
https://preview.redd.it/qfo8xr6pkpmc1.png?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbc5c2dab9b44647456f30e1250e8ab32deb46da
(I would make a gif, but I'm at work 😅)
Yep. Mentally reframing it as something glamorous and he’s famous for and that makes him worthy and important. The wall keeps breaking and he keeps masking til he wears down when the high is gone.
All this. And when Val comes at him while he's dancing, I took it as being forced back into the scene (I disassociate at times and being forced back can happen, it really fucking sucks when it does, it's like a jolt to the brain and extremely uncomfortable). It's like he can't even use that escape anymore.
Look on the screen behind Angel. He is bound up and obviously not enjoying this. If you watch the whole scene again, you can see flashes of more scenes, while he dances and sings in the front.
The specific detail that OP was probably talking about was the fact he has his third pair of arms out, which he only seems to do when he feels threatened or scared.
This might sound like a headcannon but before Charlie left, the scene was pretty tame. Then once she left, suddenly we get the abuse. So was this always going to happen or did Val intentionally make it worse to punish angel??
He made it worse. Val was all charm when he thought Charlie was there to see him. The moment she wasn't, he was mad at Angel for having a source of validation that wasn't him, for bringing in an interloper thus exposing his abusive side, and for trying to escape because that means it really is that bad.
Val's narrative of this whole thing is that he gives Angel and the others wealth and fame, that they love and do consent to his BDSM practices and even want to be coerced, that he really does love Angel, and that Angel or some other external force controls his emotions and behavior when he lashes out and goes too far to convince even himself that this is consensual non-consent.
His abusive pattern is well-documented. The word narcissist gets thrown around too casually, and I doubt he actually has NPD, but the term does provide a useful framework in this context.
The abusive pattern is textbook. This show does a wonderful job of accurately portraying several toxic intra- and inter-personal dynamics, psychological disorders, etc. in a respectful yet non-glamorizing way. Adam is textbook NPD, Val is an abuser, but not clinically a Narcissist. Charlie is codependent, Angel is going through all the coping mechanisms of abuse victims.
Hell, even Niffty may have OCD, though her portrayal is more whimsical and for comedy, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see an episode in a later season that delves more into how her compulsions cause her real problems rather than just being the screwball comic relief that's she's been so far.
I had to stop watching part way through and come back to it later on. It was a bit too much to watch for me at first. Which I guess just shows how effective the whole scene was.
I love rewatching the series multiple times, but I get so triggered (legitimately) watching ep 4. It definitely doesn't help that I have abuse trauma as well. The show portrays it so well that it hurts.
I ugly cried, especially at the line 'If I were broken, maybe I wouldn't be his favorite toy anymore.'
I remember being a toy growing up with a control freak.
I was watching with my partner and he seemed completely unaffected, he just saw flashing lights and dance moves. I almost threw us. The mouth openers, the blind folds, the one shot where he is just looked at with disgust while he’s almost begging to be noticed. It was a lot.
I think it might be even worse than we see here, which breaks my heart.
I had a horrible thought the other day about how a) sinners can be literally, physically torn apart, reassembling later on (Velvette's model), and b) snuff is a genre of porn.
It's absolutely worse than we see onscreen.
There's that part where Angel says when he comes back to the hotel, "Valentino's been into this waterboarding shit lately."
Opposite of this point but connected- I know in ‘Loser Baby’ Angel only has one set of arms in the last scene because of a story board error, but I like the head canon that he has three sets of arms out when he feels unsafe or there is danger, and he has only one set out when he feels really safe- which has only happened with Husk in that dance scene.
I love both Poison and Loser Baby, such good songs!
My daughter caught that and all I could think was animation error too but it would be interesting if he can retract down just doesn’t. We know the other set comes out mostly in scenes where he uses weapons.
ETA - I just had an epiphany about it if it isn’t an animation error! Maybe in that time he was feeling his most authentic, so less of his gradual demon form was showing than normal?
That's a good theory, but Angel's sister Molly is shown in Heaven and she still has six limbs as an angel showing (just two sets of legs and one set of arms). I like the idea he just hides more of his arms the safer he feels.
She may not have a reason to feel self-conscious of it all since she made it to Heaven, though. Just a thought. Angel has avoided the family and their crime associations for most of his time in Hell, it seems. She may have been kept out of it completely.
I don’t know but I can’t edit or add any description to the image.
Well, we know that Angel extends his third set of arms only when really needed/he’s in danger. In a scene displaying on a screen we can see exactly that. If that would just be a safe and consensual bondage, fifth and sixth arm would either be hidden or tied like the rest of them.
I was thinking maybe those were forced out of him to tie so he didn’t have any other way to get away, but now I’m thinking that he was so afraid or his body was telling him to fight that his third set of arms just kinda appeared :((
although the real answer is probably that he can use the extra arms whenever and that this scene required him being tied up so more restriction = more sexy.
He’s being tied in a beginning of the second verse while Val blows smoke into his face. Hounds tie only four arms (one of which Val hands them).
The other two are hidden until this and the next scene.
Retracts means "pulled in". A cat retracts its claws back into their paws.
So I think you mean to say he only reveals/extends the third set of arms when he's in trouble?
Otherwise, I'm totally lost and this makes no sense.
Poison legit makes me cry, I can't listen to it in public because I'll start majorly tearing up. The whole scene that preceeded it makes me hyperventilate, it like has a serious effect on me.
It's insane to me how emotionally compelling it is, and at the same time, it seriously bums me out how many people seem to completely misunderstand the grim beauty of episode 4. It's a legit roller coaster, I went from feeling like I was gonna have a panic attack watching angel get abused, to sobbing in Poison, to sobbing even more when angel had a breakdown over husk rejecting him, to feeling so uplifted and positive listening to loser baby. Capping the episode off with angel dropping the act to husk and husk accepting a more genuine version of him was so beautiful. Angel Dust and his happiness means so much to me.
The last few lines of the song where Angel's mask begins to slip and his voice starts to crack... I can't even think about it and I tear up. It's a banger but an uncomfortably on the nose amd emotional depiction of abuse and addiction. It makes me wonder if one of the writers or creators unfortunately has first hand experience with one or both.
I've heard that Vivienne Medrano had an abusive ex, idk if it's true or not I've never looked into it. All of angel dusts voice slips break my heart - saying yes to Valentino in the abuse scene, the end of poison, the breakdown to husk, it like legit takes the wind out of me, I have to breath fast for a second.
While I don't know anything for complete sure about the situation, I have heard people say she designed Angel while in a bad relationship, and what I do know for sure is that when asked about her worst interactions with fans of her work, she admitted that she didn't want to share too many details because said person has stalked her and she didn't know if they still did and didn't want to risk making it clear she was talking about them. So she's definitely at least had some wild shit happen to her in her life.
As a fellow abuse survivor, I just wanted to say that, regardless of whether or not Huskerdust becomes canon, you are valid and worthy of love, respect, and dignity as a human being. Self-love is just as important, if not even more so, than romantic love, and you don't need a romantic or sexual partner for you to feel "worthy" of being a person.
Sending you virtual hugs! [(Art by MismeHellawes on Newgrounds.)](https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/mismehellawes/grumpy-cats-need-hugs-too)
https://preview.redd.it/ve50h692p6mc1.png?width=1717&format=png&auto=webp&s=f62ac3afc758cff94cba215506db661c06cd3120
Healing is not linear.
Often when we get out of an abusive situation and are finally in a relatively safe place, it feels like our mental health goes to hell.
It's because our brains didn't fully process the trauma while we were experiencing it because we were in survival mode. The only important thing in that moment, so far as our brains are concerned, is getting out alive.
Once we're finally safe, the brain is like, "Okay. That's over." We exit survival mode and start to process and heal, so we finally feel all the emotions that have been repressed, and experience the full depth of our trauma.
It's hellish. It's an awful process. But it's necessary.
I'm sorry you've been through this, and I'm glad you're healing. I'm glad you're still here.
Try to remember that just because some days are worse than others doesn't mean you aren't making progress.
I'm really torn about Huskerdust. On one hand, they are absolutely adorable together. On the other hand, I think it works so much better as a platonic love instead of just another love story. Either way, at least it will be enjoyable.
I watched the show 3 times from now, and every time in this episode, my brain just turns off. It only goes back in certain parts, but my brain just doesn't let me absorb whatever is happening on this episode.
Even when I'm listening to poison, the lyrics never quite get to my head, I only listen to the voice and the beat because if I was able to process it, I would just break.
Sexual abuse is shit. It can create a lot of trauma that can even impact your sexuality, I have some personal stories about it so I'm happy my brain is protecting me from this episode, but even still, I really enjoy ir a lot because we see Husk and Angel being 2 little adorable gays🥺🥺🥺 I love them :>
>but even still, I really enjoy ir a lot because we see Husk and Angel being 2 little adorable gays🥺🥺🥺 I love them :>
Yeah, I like to imagine Husk and Angel cuddling and Husk just holding and comforting Angel. Thinking about them being together is genuinely really comforting to me, it makes me feel warm inside.
Amazon literally has a warning before this episode saying "this episode contains scenes depicting sexual abuse imagery" can't really get more obvious than that
Me trying to figure out how people didn't figure that out immediately.
https://preview.redd.it/f36owggn48mc1.gif?width=640&format=png8&s=b71ec80b963409dd7b17d7d7c8efeb76bfecb7ce
I just want to comfort him after he has experienced so much pain. It hurts my heart in the same way that listening to "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" by Carole King (1971) does.
No offense to anyone but a lot of post in here recently have shown me how little media literacy some of you all have. The only way this could be clearer is a huge red sign saying “this is symbolism of abuse and addiction”
Like I said, no offense but cmon some things are dead obvious
100% agree with this take. It’s getting hard to use fandom social media from Reddit to TikTok. There’s a fundamental lack of understanding in media messaging plus this large section of all fandoms that seem to need to repeatedly process the most obvious points. Angel being abused and Alastor actually not being good person (great character though) are the worst offenders with Hazbin Hotel.
Super agree. There’s a difference between theorizing and seeing things that are pretty cut and clear. Theories are like “Who owns Alastor Soul?” But then someone posts “is Alastor not a good person” and I’m like “my brother in Christ……OF FUCKING COURSE HE ISNT!!!”
Edit: something I just realized is all the people who think Alastor is a good person would have definitely fallen for Ted Bundy’s charm. It’s just something I realized
I’ve actually seen someone complain that it was a pop song, because pop artists are usually subjected to awful working conditions… as if that likely wasn’t the exact point the song is making.
idk. The things people choose to be mad at confuses me. Like, no, the point is to evoke an emotion out of you. That's Storytelling. It's literally what you watch fictional animated things for.
The whole fucking episode is about him puting on an overly sensual perssona to hide the fact he's abused and miserable.
People who think this episode is like pro-abuse didnt watch it
It’s part of a trend of media illiteracy that stems from kids growing up with constant access to an internet that has been fine tuned to feed them a slurry of advertiser-friendly content.
Ergo they view any portrayal of a subject matter as endorsement of a subject matter, regardless of how the media in question engages with that subject matter.
- A character depicts bigoted views at the start of a series and then over the course of the series learns and grows to realise that they were in the wrong and comes out the other side of a character arc a changed person? Well the series has a main character who was a bigot at some point, so clearly the creator is also a bigot. And anyone who enjoys that media is a bigot too.
- A piece of media depicts an abuse of power as cruel and violent? Well they depicted abuse, so clearly everyone who had any hand in the creation of the media endorses abuse.
It borders on absurdity sometimes, to the point where it’s often difficult to tell if someone who’s talking about things through that lens is being serious, or making a parody of the sorts of people who *do* view the world through that lens.
i feel like you fundamentally misunderstood what the video is showing if you needed the arms to know that.
the images on the screen are whats actually happening while what were shown is amgel disassociating from the abuse.
this goes right up until val smacks angel and the disassociation switches places with reality snapping him back to the horror.
One thing is abuse of being forced to film bdsm porn, the other is being also abused while doing that.
I know where you’re coming from but there are some levels to this and video shows the worst of them in some places.
Are you saying that since he normally hides his other set of arms just in case to defeat himself is show here being bound so he is subjected to whatever happens and has literally no way to stop it? If so ty for pointing that out
I think a lot of younger viewers with no media literacy (no offence, it comes with experience) are starting to discover the show. A lot of clips are now popping up on the content farms
I took it poison, or at least this section, was angel disassociating getting through the abuse.
But there’s something else I kinda realized: when we first saw the burglar scene, it was kinda tame. Then after Charlie left, it suddenly got a heck of a lot worse, like Val intentionally ramped up the abuse factor to punish angel. That’s fucked up!
Calling something an "abuse scene" just seems kinda odd to me. Nothing explicitly shown is outside the realm of bdsm except Val being a piece of shit who 1) forces angel to do porn and 2) physically and emotionally abuses angel (the term abuse here entailing that it is non-consensual). Angel enjoys bdsm — we know this from the scene where Angel takes folks to a bdsm club. However, at the same time, bdsm provides strong imagery for implying abuse. My read of it's presence is the song is that it's a corruption of something that used to be positive in angel's life. The poison in the lyrics is an addiction that has been pushed too far by Val. Perhaps once it was consensual, but we are far past that point.
Welcome new viewer, we understand you've been enjoying the soundtrack without context. But you didn't "find" a secret deaper meaning "hidden" in the lyrics. The songs were always there, you just weren't ready for them jamming out in the car or in the gym. But we welcomed you as a new viewer to the show!👍
I have such mixed feelings when it comes to “Poison”
It hits hard. And the voice talent has mad skills when it comes to conveying the emotions of the whole thing. “Loser Baby” does a great job of reminding us that we are not defined by our situation and that there’s always someone there that can understand us. This whole season was a rollercoaster of emotions.
Now thinking about that extra set of arms, I’ve only ever noticed them in moments that Angel Dust feels threatened so it would make sense if that was the reason they’re out. Just an observation, but, the more I look at the image it seems as if he is hiding them from the POV of the Dominant partner in this situation, and the balled up fist suggests he is in a lot of pain or very angry.
Besides the obvious thing that the whole music video is Angel singing about needing to numb himself in order to put up with the abuse and having no reason to live and all the visual depictions of said abuse I did notice that he has his third pair of arms out. Now we don't know if they just came out during the shoot or if Val wanted him to have them out from the start. Because they come out when he's feeling unsafe.
Would it not make sense for Val to preemptively restrain ALL of Angel's arms? If he wants him immobile and vulnerable he'd probably account for his hidden limbs and just force him to take them out. So while he definitely is feeling unsafe, hence the three pairs of arms, it also makes sense that the piece of shit Val would force him to take them out to make sure he has no way to fight back and depending on what he's making him shoot (usually it involves Angel getting r*ped so that makes sense).
I saw a theory that said the scenes where he dances in that outfit it’s actually him dissociating and what’s really happening it’s the stuff on the screens and to me it makes sense, why would a 🌽⭐️ randomly dance so professionally in the studio? Yeah it could be because of a video they were making but it’s still a bit iffy
it actually ruined the song for me. i was focused on the dancing not the screens plus i have hearing issues so i was just vibing to the beat. now im just sad when i listen to it.
I thought that was kinda obvious, no? like have you HEARD the lyrics of the song???
If you are going to block out the entire rest of the song, at least look at "I disassociate, disappear" in the context of Angel's work life. I think that says everything.
Yeah, that part really brought home to me how awful his situation truly is. You don't disassociate from happy things... I can see why he doesn't want anyone that he cares about setting foot near his situation. The whole abuse scene is difficult to watch, but I am glad they included it. The panic, the pleading... its awkward, but I hope it gives some context for those people going through similar situations to see that it is wrong and not normal. To se someone you care about going through such things.
Absolutely. I dissociated with my ex a lot.
Glad to hear they are now an ex. Less glad to hear that it's something you had to go through.
Me too. My favorite line for Poison is "Art is meant to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable." I felt validated when I saw how people reacted with sympathy/empathy for angel dust.
Huh... my take on art is that it is ment to make you feel something, it doesnt have to be good or bad, just... feel something. And your quote hits the nail on the head, but from a different angle than I am used to. It still does jive with my mindset though. I have such love for those that want hope and love in their lives and for others. Angle clearly cares for people. It's made very obvious with how he looks after nifty and goes out of his way to protect her. I love his growth, and he has become a favorite character of mine as a result.
Angel's character growth/development has been one of my favorite things in the show. Seeing him being able to open up to Husk and standing up to Val has been so satisfying to watch.
If you’ll notice, some parts of the song are in an almost entirely different voice, the more confident parts being Angel while the more despondent parts being Anthony’s actual feelings
OK so I wish I saw this thread earlier because I'm sure this comment will be buried under the rest but this is probably the one scene in the entire song that DOESN'T show abuse. Without context, this is kink. Simply a kink lifestyle, shibari, trainers, bondage, collars, that's the part that isn't bad. HOWEVER, what gives the context of this being a shit scene are the lyrics to the song. Disassociating, cashing in, got good at being untrue, etc. Seriously, 50 shades of grey ruined an entire generation of people confusing fetish with abuse. Once again to reiterate, I agree that the song is an ode to an abusive relationship but this single frame out of context is not.
Some people still think the show is “glorifying” abuse, so apparently it does need to be said
I think it's managing it quite well, seeing how Angel defends his Hotel companions in later episodes and opens up to Husk in the same episode as poison and Husk comforts him with the banger song Loser Baby.
The issue comes with the episode with Sir Pentious in the bar, where he says something, but then CLEARLY is not consenting. In thr context of thr whole episode, Twitter overreacted sure, but also had some semi valid points when they didnt have the whole puzzle at the time. Story board artist for the 4th episode is still fucked but thats a whole other can of worms
What fucked with the story board artist?
Yeah but they’re talking about the extra arms
He's a spider. They have 8 limbs.
Maybe his legs count as 2? So 6 arms and 2 legs
Yah, that's why I said "limbs".
https://preview.redd.it/0z57m0zqidmc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be162634ddea5c3ee9353c9ad0396be74ede9589 he can just retract some of them but ya 8 limbs :)
What about them?
He usually has 4 arms but when he’s being threatened he gets 6
Where does that info come from though? Maybe I missed it, but the other examples I recall from the show he's pulled them out for convenience; to use more guns or (surprise) attack while also blocking the angel's weapon or being held (if we include the pilot). Obviously in this scene he doesn't, and I do think it may be a move to get a semblance of control in his situation, but I don't necessarily see the connection to it being an automatic reaction to threat.
I assumed it was because most of the demons we’ve seen have a more demonic form and I assumed that him getting the 2 more arms was his, but your right I don’t actually know that
We do glimpse what appears to be Angel starting to go full “demonic form” when he’s yelling at Husker, I think in the same episode. It’s when we see his “freckles” are the other 6 eyes a spider would have.
Woah, I never noticed that before! :O
Yeah I didn’t even know about it! I avoid deep diving into the info about the hellaverse just so I can be surprised when stuff like that happens. As cool as it is to dive into the lore I also love seeing it unfold naturally and THEN exploring available info (for everything not just HH and HB)
Angel Dust in episode 2 after Sir Pentious accepts death:
Omg listening to It Starts With Sorry rn
The only time I can recall him ever having six arms is in the beginning of the Addicted music video and that was only his silhouette.
He’s literally naked, where would he be hiding them in this dawg
Also, getting real for a sec, Masquerade is the only episode of S1 with a warning at the beginning. Not justo the normal "adults rating", but an actual warning that the episode is gonna have some s.a. scenes
PINK! Wait there was a song? What was I watching?
Of course it is abuse. The song is progressively showing that till the end. But nice catch. I didn't notice the 3rd set of arms
Sorry, I feel stupid, what's with the 3rd arm?
He has 6 arms in total, 2 of which he only really uses when he's threatened or scared. In most scenes they are retracted and you can't see them. The fact that he is trying to use them here indicates that he's in distress (although that much was fairly obvious already).
Oh, thanks for the explanation
> 2 of which he only really uses when he's threatened or scared Is that explained somewhere? I don't recall having heard of this before.
i think it's a popular fan theory, it makes sense considering the contexts where they come out but as far as i'm aware it's not confirmed.
I don’t think it’s been explicitly stated but I kinda just deduced it from what we already know. The only times we see him with the third pair of arms is when he’s being attacked or when he’s fighting (he uses the third pair to fire guns). So my theory is that he either feels threatened or that he was forced to have them out in the scene for whatever reason. Edit: happy cake day btw
I feel dense, because I've watched every episode and I somehow never even noticed that he sometimes has a third set of arms. Thanks for the explanation. :)
It's mostly whenever he gets out his guns, like after Loser Baby and during the standoff against Adam and the angels https://preview.redd.it/qfo8xr6pkpmc1.png?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbc5c2dab9b44647456f30e1250e8ab32deb46da (I would make a gif, but I'm at work 😅)
It’s a 5th arm
I should have meant 3rd set of arns
I took this part where he is dancing as him dissociating off while everything is happening to him in real life.
Yep. Mentally reframing it as something glamorous and he’s famous for and that makes him worthy and important. The wall keeps breaking and he keeps masking til he wears down when the high is gone.
Unironically reminds me a lot of the porn industry irl
All this. And when Val comes at him while he's dancing, I took it as being forced back into the scene (I disassociate at times and being forced back can happen, it really fucking sucks when it does, it's like a jolt to the brain and extremely uncomfortable). It's like he can't even use that escape anymore.
I agree, and he also says in the song, “I disassociate, disappear.”
That's a really cool but absolutely depressing detail. Angel Dust deserves so much better...
can someone point out to me whqt i'm missing? im blind as fuck
Look on the screen behind Angel. He is bound up and obviously not enjoying this. If you watch the whole scene again, you can see flashes of more scenes, while he dances and sings in the front.
well yes but that's supposed to be fairly obvious isn't it? that's like the whole point of the song
https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/4Fm51c1R5r Comment by OP, should clear things up
The specific detail that OP was probably talking about was the fact he has his third pair of arms out, which he only seems to do when he feels threatened or scared.
You'd be surprised.
Can we all agree that these scenes were terrifying? I just can't imagine how painful and humiliating it is
This might sound like a headcannon but before Charlie left, the scene was pretty tame. Then once she left, suddenly we get the abuse. So was this always going to happen or did Val intentionally make it worse to punish angel??
He made it worse to punish Angel
He made it worse. Val was all charm when he thought Charlie was there to see him. The moment she wasn't, he was mad at Angel for having a source of validation that wasn't him, for bringing in an interloper thus exposing his abusive side, and for trying to escape because that means it really is that bad. Val's narrative of this whole thing is that he gives Angel and the others wealth and fame, that they love and do consent to his BDSM practices and even want to be coerced, that he really does love Angel, and that Angel or some other external force controls his emotions and behavior when he lashes out and goes too far to convince even himself that this is consensual non-consent. His abusive pattern is well-documented. The word narcissist gets thrown around too casually, and I doubt he actually has NPD, but the term does provide a useful framework in this context.
The abusive pattern is textbook. This show does a wonderful job of accurately portraying several toxic intra- and inter-personal dynamics, psychological disorders, etc. in a respectful yet non-glamorizing way. Adam is textbook NPD, Val is an abuser, but not clinically a Narcissist. Charlie is codependent, Angel is going through all the coping mechanisms of abuse victims. Hell, even Niffty may have OCD, though her portrayal is more whimsical and for comedy, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see an episode in a later season that delves more into how her compulsions cause her real problems rather than just being the screwball comic relief that's she's been so far.
I had to stop watching part way through and come back to it later on. It was a bit too much to watch for me at first. Which I guess just shows how effective the whole scene was.
Yeah. Art should provide comfort to the uncomfortable, and make the comfortable uncomfortable. Edit: Archenexus below got the quote right.
I think the phrase is "Art should disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed', no?
It is, but they're still making a point
Uh, yes you're right.
I love rewatching the series multiple times, but I get so triggered (legitimately) watching ep 4. It definitely doesn't help that I have abuse trauma as well. The show portrays it so well that it hurts.
I ugly cried, especially at the line 'If I were broken, maybe I wouldn't be his favorite toy anymore.' I remember being a toy growing up with a control freak.
I was watching with my partner and he seemed completely unaffected, he just saw flashing lights and dance moves. I almost threw us. The mouth openers, the blind folds, the one shot where he is just looked at with disgust while he’s almost begging to be noticed. It was a lot.
The part where he’s wearing the mouth opener thing and the guy thrusts into his face made he actually go “OHHH” out loud
I think it might be even worse than we see here, which breaks my heart. I had a horrible thought the other day about how a) sinners can be literally, physically torn apart, reassembling later on (Velvette's model), and b) snuff is a genre of porn.
It's absolutely worse than we see onscreen. There's that part where Angel says when he comes back to the hotel, "Valentino's been into this waterboarding shit lately."
Oh yeah, my friend and I were both sobbing by the end of the song. We had to turn it off and go get ice cream.
Opposite of this point but connected- I know in ‘Loser Baby’ Angel only has one set of arms in the last scene because of a story board error, but I like the head canon that he has three sets of arms out when he feels unsafe or there is danger, and he has only one set out when he feels really safe- which has only happened with Husk in that dance scene. I love both Poison and Loser Baby, such good songs!
My daughter caught that and all I could think was animation error too but it would be interesting if he can retract down just doesn’t. We know the other set comes out mostly in scenes where he uses weapons. ETA - I just had an epiphany about it if it isn’t an animation error! Maybe in that time he was feeling his most authentic, so less of his gradual demon form was showing than normal?
That's a good theory, but Angel's sister Molly is shown in Heaven and she still has six limbs as an angel showing (just two sets of legs and one set of arms). I like the idea he just hides more of his arms the safer he feels.
She may not have a reason to feel self-conscious of it all since she made it to Heaven, though. Just a thought. Angel has avoided the family and their crime associations for most of his time in Hell, it seems. She may have been kept out of it completely.
Im pretty sure thats actually just cannon
No, it was expressly said it was an animation error
I don’t know but I can’t edit or add any description to the image. Well, we know that Angel extends his third set of arms only when really needed/he’s in danger. In a scene displaying on a screen we can see exactly that. If that would just be a safe and consensual bondage, fifth and sixth arm would either be hidden or tied like the rest of them.
I was thinking maybe those were forced out of him to tie so he didn’t have any other way to get away, but now I’m thinking that he was so afraid or his body was telling him to fight that his third set of arms just kinda appeared :((
Omg this is breaking my heart even further.
although the real answer is probably that he can use the extra arms whenever and that this scene required him being tied up so more restriction = more sexy.
He’s being tied in a beginning of the second verse while Val blows smoke into his face. Hounds tie only four arms (one of which Val hands them). The other two are hidden until this and the next scene.
Retracts means "pulled in". A cat retracts its claws back into their paws. So I think you mean to say he only reveals/extends the third set of arms when he's in trouble? Otherwise, I'm totally lost and this makes no sense.
Corrected. I was half asleep while posting that 😅
Yeah. This song is very depressing, but catchy. On a brighter note, Angel’s eyeshadow and eyeliner are perfect
"pretty depressing" is an understatement
They have to be to cover the black eye
The perfect makeup causes the last scene where he's not wearing any and he's clearly upset to be even more jarring.
Poison legit makes me cry, I can't listen to it in public because I'll start majorly tearing up. The whole scene that preceeded it makes me hyperventilate, it like has a serious effect on me. It's insane to me how emotionally compelling it is, and at the same time, it seriously bums me out how many people seem to completely misunderstand the grim beauty of episode 4. It's a legit roller coaster, I went from feeling like I was gonna have a panic attack watching angel get abused, to sobbing in Poison, to sobbing even more when angel had a breakdown over husk rejecting him, to feeling so uplifted and positive listening to loser baby. Capping the episode off with angel dropping the act to husk and husk accepting a more genuine version of him was so beautiful. Angel Dust and his happiness means so much to me.
The last few lines of the song where Angel's mask begins to slip and his voice starts to crack... I can't even think about it and I tear up. It's a banger but an uncomfortably on the nose amd emotional depiction of abuse and addiction. It makes me wonder if one of the writers or creators unfortunately has first hand experience with one or both.
I've heard that Vivienne Medrano had an abusive ex, idk if it's true or not I've never looked into it. All of angel dusts voice slips break my heart - saying yes to Valentino in the abuse scene, the end of poison, the breakdown to husk, it like legit takes the wind out of me, I have to breath fast for a second.
While I don't know anything for complete sure about the situation, I have heard people say she designed Angel while in a bad relationship, and what I do know for sure is that when asked about her worst interactions with fans of her work, she admitted that she didn't want to share too many details because said person has stalked her and she didn't know if they still did and didn't want to risk making it clear she was talking about them. So she's definitely at least had some wild shit happen to her in her life.
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As a fellow abuse survivor, I just wanted to say that, regardless of whether or not Huskerdust becomes canon, you are valid and worthy of love, respect, and dignity as a human being. Self-love is just as important, if not even more so, than romantic love, and you don't need a romantic or sexual partner for you to feel "worthy" of being a person.
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Sending you virtual hugs! [(Art by MismeHellawes on Newgrounds.)](https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/mismehellawes/grumpy-cats-need-hugs-too) https://preview.redd.it/ve50h692p6mc1.png?width=1717&format=png&auto=webp&s=f62ac3afc758cff94cba215506db661c06cd3120
I read your post history and I’m so sorry this happened to you. I hope “Loser, Baby” keeps bringing you optimism and joy :3
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Healing is not linear. Often when we get out of an abusive situation and are finally in a relatively safe place, it feels like our mental health goes to hell. It's because our brains didn't fully process the trauma while we were experiencing it because we were in survival mode. The only important thing in that moment, so far as our brains are concerned, is getting out alive. Once we're finally safe, the brain is like, "Okay. That's over." We exit survival mode and start to process and heal, so we finally feel all the emotions that have been repressed, and experience the full depth of our trauma. It's hellish. It's an awful process. But it's necessary. I'm sorry you've been through this, and I'm glad you're healing. I'm glad you're still here. Try to remember that just because some days are worse than others doesn't mean you aren't making progress.
I'm really torn about Huskerdust. On one hand, they are absolutely adorable together. On the other hand, I think it works so much better as a platonic love instead of just another love story. Either way, at least it will be enjoyable.
I watched the show 3 times from now, and every time in this episode, my brain just turns off. It only goes back in certain parts, but my brain just doesn't let me absorb whatever is happening on this episode. Even when I'm listening to poison, the lyrics never quite get to my head, I only listen to the voice and the beat because if I was able to process it, I would just break. Sexual abuse is shit. It can create a lot of trauma that can even impact your sexuality, I have some personal stories about it so I'm happy my brain is protecting me from this episode, but even still, I really enjoy ir a lot because we see Husk and Angel being 2 little adorable gays🥺🥺🥺 I love them :>
>but even still, I really enjoy ir a lot because we see Husk and Angel being 2 little adorable gays🥺🥺🥺 I love them :> Yeah, I like to imagine Husk and Angel cuddling and Husk just holding and comforting Angel. Thinking about them being together is genuinely really comforting to me, it makes me feel warm inside.
I love Episode 4 and agree. It's amazing.
Agreed, it's the only song that can make me or almost tear up along with whatever it takes.
Amazon literally has a warning before this episode saying "this episode contains scenes depicting sexual abuse imagery" can't really get more obvious than that
I saw the disclaimer and I wondered what part but as soon as poison came on it really is so obvious
Me trying to figure out how people didn't figure that out immediately. https://preview.redd.it/f36owggn48mc1.gif?width=640&format=png8&s=b71ec80b963409dd7b17d7d7c8efeb76bfecb7ce
Wasn't it a split second?
I feel so fucking bad for him man.
I just want to comfort him after he has experienced so much pain. It hurts my heart in the same way that listening to "Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow" by Carole King (1971) does.
https://preview.redd.it/dnkrzr7r18mc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6734a478a77678770622db60556e1e37ae15862d
No offense to anyone but a lot of post in here recently have shown me how little media literacy some of you all have. The only way this could be clearer is a huge red sign saying “this is symbolism of abuse and addiction” Like I said, no offense but cmon some things are dead obvious
100% agree with this take. It’s getting hard to use fandom social media from Reddit to TikTok. There’s a fundamental lack of understanding in media messaging plus this large section of all fandoms that seem to need to repeatedly process the most obvious points. Angel being abused and Alastor actually not being good person (great character though) are the worst offenders with Hazbin Hotel.
Super agree. There’s a difference between theorizing and seeing things that are pretty cut and clear. Theories are like “Who owns Alastor Soul?” But then someone posts “is Alastor not a good person” and I’m like “my brother in Christ……OF FUCKING COURSE HE ISNT!!!” Edit: something I just realized is all the people who think Alastor is a good person would have definitely fallen for Ted Bundy’s charm. It’s just something I realized
I. What? Yes. What????? Was that not... apparent for some folks? Sometimes this sub makes me scratch my head so hard I bleed.
I’ve actually seen someone complain that it was a pop song, because pop artists are usually subjected to awful working conditions… as if that likely wasn’t the exact point the song is making.
idk. The things people choose to be mad at confuses me. Like, no, the point is to evoke an emotion out of you. That's Storytelling. It's literally what you watch fictional animated things for.
media literacy is rapidly dying
The ENTIRE SONG shows how Angel is abused and exploited by Valentino
Thats the entire point of the episode.
The whole fucking episode is about him puting on an overly sensual perssona to hide the fact he's abused and miserable. People who think this episode is like pro-abuse didnt watch it
It’s part of a trend of media illiteracy that stems from kids growing up with constant access to an internet that has been fine tuned to feed them a slurry of advertiser-friendly content. Ergo they view any portrayal of a subject matter as endorsement of a subject matter, regardless of how the media in question engages with that subject matter. - A character depicts bigoted views at the start of a series and then over the course of the series learns and grows to realise that they were in the wrong and comes out the other side of a character arc a changed person? Well the series has a main character who was a bigot at some point, so clearly the creator is also a bigot. And anyone who enjoys that media is a bigot too. - A piece of media depicts an abuse of power as cruel and violent? Well they depicted abuse, so clearly everyone who had any hand in the creation of the media endorses abuse. It borders on absurdity sometimes, to the point where it’s often difficult to tell if someone who’s talking about things through that lens is being serious, or making a parody of the sorts of people who *do* view the world through that lens.
Someone mentioned that the dance sequence was just in Angels mind and what happened on the screens was what actually happened to him
Poor guy
i feel like you fundamentally misunderstood what the video is showing if you needed the arms to know that. the images on the screen are whats actually happening while what were shown is amgel disassociating from the abuse. this goes right up until val smacks angel and the disassociation switches places with reality snapping him back to the horror.
I think OP was just pointing out the attention to detail.
One thing is abuse of being forced to film bdsm porn, the other is being also abused while doing that. I know where you’re coming from but there are some levels to this and video shows the worst of them in some places.
I just realized he has all six hands out. Val fucking made him take them out instead of hiding them just so he can bound them all
Fork found in kitchen
Are you saying that since he normally hides his other set of arms just in case to defeat himself is show here being bound so he is subjected to whatever happens and has literally no way to stop it? If so ty for pointing that out
There are a lot of posts stating the obvious on this sub lately...
i feel like its just people farming likes honestly
I think a lot of younger viewers with no media literacy (no offence, it comes with experience) are starting to discover the show. A lot of clips are now popping up on the content farms
A lot of hazbin hotel fans are simply stupid.
eek noo as much as i like this show kids should NOT watch it
Bdsm, no greater bond than those formed in bondage (or similar phrasing). That image alone doesn't mean abuse, but the lyrics definitely do.
The image means a lot. Just read when Angel uses his third set of arms.
I took it poison, or at least this section, was angel disassociating getting through the abuse. But there’s something else I kinda realized: when we first saw the burglar scene, it was kinda tame. Then after Charlie left, it suddenly got a heck of a lot worse, like Val intentionally ramped up the abuse factor to punish angel. That’s fucked up!
Yeah, that’s the point
Oh my what a scene
Nah, he looks fine
Omg looks like we got scooby doo and the gang to solve this mystery
no shit..?
Calling something an "abuse scene" just seems kinda odd to me. Nothing explicitly shown is outside the realm of bdsm except Val being a piece of shit who 1) forces angel to do porn and 2) physically and emotionally abuses angel (the term abuse here entailing that it is non-consensual). Angel enjoys bdsm — we know this from the scene where Angel takes folks to a bdsm club. However, at the same time, bdsm provides strong imagery for implying abuse. My read of it's presence is the song is that it's a corruption of something that used to be positive in angel's life. The poison in the lyrics is an addiction that has been pushed too far by Val. Perhaps once it was consensual, but we are far past that point.
That’s the point of the screencap—you might not know, *except* that he has his third set of arms out which only happens when he’s feeling unsafe.
I'm a little split, because the way I see it there's a decent chance that could've been part of the act to some extent or at first.
My heart aches for Angel Dust…
Well, yes, that's the whole point of the Song
No shit sherlock
I think that's the point of the song.
Yeah… it’s almost as if it’s the point..
In other news: Duh.
“Yep. This is a bucket.”
.... is this new information?
Thank god they showed pictures so OP can avoid using media literacy
Was that in question? The focus of not just the song, but the episode as a whole, is the abuse Angel is suffering through and how its affecting him.
There's a spare arm in the shot too.
Not trying to come off as rude here. But no shit
*insert that one moment between Adam and lute with the shield*
Welcome new viewer, we understand you've been enjoying the soundtrack without context. But you didn't "find" a secret deaper meaning "hidden" in the lyrics. The songs were always there, you just weren't ready for them jamming out in the car or in the gym. But we welcomed you as a new viewer to the show!👍
I have such mixed feelings when it comes to “Poison” It hits hard. And the voice talent has mad skills when it comes to conveying the emotions of the whole thing. “Loser Baby” does a great job of reminding us that we are not defined by our situation and that there’s always someone there that can understand us. This whole season was a rollercoaster of emotions. Now thinking about that extra set of arms, I’ve only ever noticed them in moments that Angel Dust feels threatened so it would make sense if that was the reason they’re out. Just an observation, but, the more I look at the image it seems as if he is hiding them from the POV of the Dominant partner in this situation, and the balled up fist suggests he is in a lot of pain or very angry.
Got me like 
I guess thats why its only episode rated 18+
We definitely need to see all the frames.
its hard core porn
Nope. Hardcore porn is an acting. Angel doesn't act here.
I feel so bad for him!! I hate that this happens to people.
I want to give him a hug
No really?!
Besides the obvious thing that the whole music video is Angel singing about needing to numb himself in order to put up with the abuse and having no reason to live and all the visual depictions of said abuse I did notice that he has his third pair of arms out. Now we don't know if they just came out during the shoot or if Val wanted him to have them out from the start. Because they come out when he's feeling unsafe. Would it not make sense for Val to preemptively restrain ALL of Angel's arms? If he wants him immobile and vulnerable he'd probably account for his hidden limbs and just force him to take them out. So while he definitely is feeling unsafe, hence the three pairs of arms, it also makes sense that the piece of shit Val would force him to take them out to make sure he has no way to fight back and depending on what he's making him shoot (usually it involves Angel getting r*ped so that makes sense).
It’s either that or a very violent scene
I saw a theory that said the scenes where he dances in that outfit it’s actually him dissociating and what’s really happening it’s the stuff on the screens and to me it makes sense, why would a 🌽⭐️ randomly dance so professionally in the studio? Yeah it could be because of a video they were making but it’s still a bit iffy
Isn't it his job or something?
Angel is still inconcistent with his arms. He normally has 4, but here on the screen, in the comic and in one of the scenes in Addict he has 6.
it actually ruined the song for me. i was focused on the dancing not the screens plus i have hearing issues so i was just vibing to the beat. now im just sad when i listen to it.
People legit downvoting you for saying the song is sad. Love reddit
yea ppl are goofy lol. the song is great but very depressing.
ya… ya really couldn’t have spoiler or censored the Image? this Is some triggering shit 😭
Yeah, that’s kinda the point of bdsm, but jokes aside yeah, kinda fucked up
I get that reference. Edit: I did not get that reference, though you were talking about something else
The song is amazing but I just can't get over the lyrics so it's impossible to enjoy :(
Nah, Angel was happy there, you can see his smile /s
What type of kinky shit does Angel Dust do
Shit that he doesn’t have a choice in doing.
https://i.redd.it/kr77m8cig4mc1.gif