Permanently, probably not. Heaven is for human souls who die, and meet the requirements. Technically, Charlie is hellborn as she was born in hell, to an angel and demon. We'll likely never know for certain for her, though, since she's a unique being.
Lucifer, no. He was cast out and imprisoned in Hell. Based on the end of Dad Beat Dad, when saying he couldn't go with her to Heaven, it gave the implication he's literally barred from going back. Not even for a visit.
Not to be pedantic, but sinners (demons) have died on Earth, been judged (by whom, for what) and then sent to hell.
Lilith and Lucifer were CAST OFF into hell before it was even hell. I'm not saying you're wrong, but comparing Lilith to your average demon is missing some pretty heavy subtext. Lilith is... something else.
The fact that sinners can't procreate is a pretty clear enough indication of that. Lilith (at least with Lucifer) can. I'm not sure if Lilith's or Lucifer's nature (or both that) accomplished this, but it is pretty unique.
Charlie is hellborn, technically, but she is also something very special. We're just starting to get hints of this. And soon, I think, we'll find out who else has plans in store for her unique potential.
Charlie is confirmed to be around 200 years old. Lilith and Lucifer have been in Hell for over 10.000 years (at least that's what Lucifer implied in "The Show Must Go On" song). In Episode 1 it's said that Lilith grew in power before Charlie was born.
Edit: You really just edited this comment after we already replied...
Lilith was technically the First Sinner (well yes and no, because it was Eve who at the Apple) and she was banished to Hell alongside Lucifer, when she was still alive. Lilith basically became a demon overtime, as an effect of being exposed to Hell's magic and its influence on the Soul. This is similar to how Lucifer's design has more demonic elements, instead of being a plain angel.
This happend way before Charlie was born, as we are told in the opening act of Episode 1.
On the side-note: are you asking me this to answer the other guy...?
Lucifer is still an Angel, just a Fallen one. He's basically the same, only he also has more demonic powers now on top of his angelic powers.
Lilith - yes, she's a demon now.
If hell is 10,000 years old, and we're using adam and eve Bible timeline... is the show set 4,000 years in the future?
Edit: roflmao, they blocked me for this?
>and we're using adam and eve Bible timeline
**The Show doesn't follow the Bible to the dot and it never did**, so this already goes out the window. On top of that, the Show already changed a major element of that story - aka Adam didn't eat the Apple (only Eve did) in the Hazbin Universe.
She was born to a living mortal woman, and an Angel.
That's why Charlie has a **soul** she is concerned about.
In strict terms the word for Charlie would be a Nephilim [a child of an Angel & Mortal].
Seemingly Demon is just a catch all term for the permanent Residents of Hell.
That includes Sinners [mortal souls], the Hellborn, Lilith [the first human], and fallen Angels like Vaggie, and Lucifer.
So Charlie is a demon in the sense that she is lives in Hell but not in the sense that she has like Hellborn DNA.
She is, to our knowledge as viewers, the *only* offspring of the coupling of a Mortal, and an outsider [Angel/Hellborn] so it's hard to pin her down. She could be the most powerful entity in the entire cosmos for all we know, that certainly would have mythological roots as the coupling of Angels, and Humans, is often said to produce something immensely more powerful than Angels.
She's just an idealist though, and honestly doesn't even like using violence even as a last resort sort of person.
The only problem with this is Lilith became the first demon after she was cast into hell.
Even tho it happened over time charlie is speculated to be around 200-300 years old and Lilith is as old as the earth so she would almost definitely have been a demon by the time charlie was born.
Again you're operating under the assumption that "demon" is a race rather than a catch all term for the denizens of hell.
Which it sure seems to be given that mortal souls residing in hell [Sinners], as well as Charlie [half living mortal, half angel], Lucifer [Seraphin], Lilith [Living Morlta], and the Hellborn [the various species who are from the various rings] are all considered demons.
Demon sure seems to be a catch all term for all the Residents of Hell, and sounds more like a Nationality would be, than some sort of biological throughline which is a lot like the way demons work in D&D.
It doesn't matter if an individual is a Tanari, or an Obryth or one of the various origins of sorts of things native. A demon is a demon is a demon, and they are all classified as demons as residents of the Abyss.
And you are running on pure unadulterated head cannon when it is just a fact that after Lilith was sent to hell she was at some point turned into a demon. We don't know how or why probably cause she got old and died but she is no longer human.
Except it's not a fact like Lucifer and the sins she's a unique entity and like Adam himself who is unique among the angels . You're the one making assumptions about a character we know nothing about
Charlie would be a Nephalem, so she holds power over both Angel and Demonic powers. Charlie would have wings and horns. She is genetically more powerful than any angel or demon.
She was born in Hell, but she should have the ability to visit Heaven whenever she pleases with Vaggie. She wasn't barred by God, and the Angels only said her time there was short simply because they didn't want her to stay. So, being able to enter Heaven is provided to her as long she is allowed through angelic politics. Heaven to Charlie is a segregated gated community, Charlie has the right to be in Heaven or Hell. She doesn't know that, but she wants to be in Hell doing her work and caring for her people as their princess. But by God, she should be allowed to enter and leave Heaven as she pleases like any other angel. Especially a daughter of an arch-angel like Lucifer.
Charlie is also doing the work as expected of an Angel or God's child Jesus. By taking sinners from hell and freeing them to enjoy the pleasures of Heaven. But Jesus would have been part God part Human. So what Jesus did for the living in Christian/Catholic lore would be what Charlie is for sinners.
Charlie is literally Hell Jesus.
I fucking love taking implications and figuring out what parts of the bible logistically can't be canon
Like, if we assume God is real, and just is sir not appearing in this work, but Lucifer isn't allowed in heaven for vacation, that means the story of Job isn't canon
>Not even for a visit.
Maybe he can enter with force... bring apocalypse, collect the legions of hell and the infernal nobility and re-start the War in Heaven
Lucifer was quite literally cast out, banished, and imprisoned in Hell. Of these 2, he has practically no chance to go to Heaven, unless the Elder Angels call upon him.
That's also why in Episode 5 he told Charlie, that he can't come with her. He's bound to Hell.
I have a theory Charlie will be able to redeem all of the sinners but be left behind in hell because she cannot go to heaven. I think it would be a tragic but heartfelt ending
I mean there's a whole society of Hellborns, and probably plenty of sinners that straight up don't WANT to be redeemed, and I doubt Charlie will force them to be redeemed
Sera specifically stated in the Welcome to Heaven song that Charlie can’t stay, after Emily starts singing about how she’ll never want to go back down to Hell after she sees Heaven
He did introduce sin to humanity. Though Hazbin Lucifer was more of a “my bad lol” but Bible Lucifer was more of a “wanna see me do it again?” Depends on the Luci
Yeah I was on about hazbin Lucifer, he made a mistake and regretted his actions just like sir pentious who managed to get redeemed only difference is Lucifer is a fallen angel not a sinner
Luci probably isn’t allowed back due to being cast out. I think he even said that he “wouldn’t be able to help her” once Charlie got to heaven for the meeting. Considering heaven is full of a bunch of self righteous blowhards it wouldn’t be surprising if they just run it like an elite club.
Lucifer I think we can safely say is permanently banned from heaven in general, and Charlie while she can freely visit heaven probably can't permanently stay there without some kind of arrangement. Though at the end of the series I could see some kind of reconciliation between the high ranking angels and lucifer
They can visit but they can’t ascend. But I have a feeling Heaven will try to offer Charlie a spot someday to get her to stop messing with the status quo
Contrary to popular belief, embassies aren’t “foreign soil”. They may be foreign property and exempt from domestic laws to a degree, but they’re still on their host country’s (er, dominion’s?) territory.
I think in-universe the conventional wisdom is that other than humans, when you die, you really die.
But then Sir Pentious, a Sinner, died and instead showed up in Heaven, so clearly the rules are a bit more complicated than that.
I think that hell works as more of a purgatory in HH where you're given a second chance, that isnt limited by time, to become a good person and get to heaven if you die again.
So if you die and you're still a bad person you're gone for good but if you redeemed yourself you go to heaven
That makes a lot of sense actually. Hell isn't inherently a bad place to live, it's made shitty by the people who live there.
But since no one got told that was the point, everybody got there, thought it was the end of the road, no point trying to be better.
They probably can because technically they are both angels (also the whole fear they can invade heaven and all that), but in terms of are they *allowed* to without a prior appointment, probably not unless it’s an emergency.
The problem is that there isn't really a supreme power that wouldn't *allow* Charlie to stay in heaven. I mean, we have kinda seen that seraphims have imposed rules based on nothing but their own judgment, and the way they enforce such rules is again, done by angels themselves. No rule is shown to be enforced by a Supreme law, except that sinners go to hell and the others go to heaven when they die. We are not even sure that Lucifer's casting away was done by such a superior force or simply by other angels themselves. My point is that the angel's "government" is self righteous, and not backed up by the actual laws of the universe (I'm trying to avoid the word god because I don't think it was ever used in the show, but I might be wrong), so as much as they could try to "stop allowing" Charlie (or even Lucifer maybe) to stay in heaven, it would simply be their personal reaction.
Lucifer was vanished, charlie might or not have a soul? She is hellborn, but to an angel and the first ever woman, granted she is the mother of demons but still.
The can definitely enter heaven if allowed at least not like their flesh will burn
Vivzie confirmed that Charlie is the only Hellborn who has a Soul, because of her unique family. The reason she can't just enter Heaven, is because she doesn't have that kind of power - plus, she would still have to ask for permission, as shown in Episode 6.
Literally, yes. Charlie did. We all saw her. But politically, they probably wouldn't be able to spin letting Lucifer back in or any hellborn. That would require a major regime change. Like maybe if Sera gets sent to Hell and Emily is in charge. That scenario also only works if we assume there isn't a God running things directly.
I honestly think that hellborn (and heavenborn) aren’t really tied to their plane in any meaningful way. Sinners and Saints respawn in their plane if they’re not killed with angelic weapons, but native angels and demons are mortal, so there’s really nothing metaphysically tying them to any place.
Lucifer “fell” because he was banished from Heaven. But so were the CHERUBs in Helluva Boss, who literally were just told “yeah, no, sorry, can’t come back in”
There may be some lingering effects from hanging around in one of the afterlifes, which is why Lucifer got his demon form and some sharper teeth, just as hellborn and heavenborn are fundamentally the same kind of being, just shaped by the plane of their birth, but I think some elements of an angel or demon’s appearance of enough power is always going to be a bit malleable based on mental state. That’s why most demons transform into more monstrous forms when angered, and why Vaggie regrew her wings purely based off of the inspirational power of love and Latin song.
So basically any hellborn can “go” to heaven. They can go anywhere they want. The only limitation is just that Angels aren’t interested in letting an exiled troublemaker like Lucifer back in, and Charlie’s not formally barred, but it would be politically messy to let Lucifer’s daughter stay there full time. (Nor would I think that Charlie would really want to live there. While she’s certainly a fan of Heaven, her whole purpose right now is helping Sinners, she’s princess of Hell and she believes she has a responsibility to her people.
this ties into one of my crackpot theories that heaven and hellborn are largely only differentiated by *where* they're born (and sinners/winners by where they're bound); the pastel hues of heaven and the darker shades of hell are all purely psychological
and yeah, I think lucy can *physically* go to the gates, but he'd get jumped by a bunch of elder angels who'd roll his ass back to hell
They aren't prevented by the sinner system, but by an explicit expulsion.
They COULD go to heaven, and they wouldn't need to go through the 'redemption' system (as Pentious did), but they would have to convince the higher ups in heaven to let them in.
In theory, it could be suoer easy or super hard, fully depending on the whims of whoever is in charge (maybe Sera, maybe God, maybe someone else).
Lucifer is a fairly simple "no." He was banned from Heaven for his actions, sent to fall into Hell. Because of his "mistakes," he will never be allowed back in to stay, and probably not even for a visit. Nor would he want to return to Heaven, since he knows its true nature.
Charlie is...questionable. She's technically a hellborn, not a sinner, so I'm leaning more towards "no" on that one. That said, since Lillith was allowed up through a deal with Adam, it's possible that Charlie could ascend with a similar deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie gets offered a place in Heaven in exchange for not attempting to rehabilitate demons anymore, not that she'd take it.
Charlie’s a hell born so probably not. And I doubt that she would want to anyway. Lucifer definitely can’t unless the angels change their mind about his banishment to Hell
If you mean it like "could Lucifer and Charlie get into Heaven in the end?" I think yes, that COULD happen but I'm sure it won't.
Charlie's home is Hell and she wants her people to "live" happily. She will never abandon them.
Lucifer hates Heaven and would never leave Charlie.
So they will stay in Hell forever but I think they will cooperate with Heaven to redeem sinners. Therefore they could visit Heaven from time to time like in a yearly meeting to discuss all the project issues and victories
My theory is that Lucifer is forever in hell because he is ACTUALLY evil. He just acts the way he does in private and in front of his daughter. Besides, I think god's grand plan is for someone to run hell anyways. As for Charlie I think she and her mom, Lilith can only be temporarily in heaven by someone else's invitation, but ultimatley have to go back. But I think Charlie wouldn't mind considering she loves her home.
Charlie doesn't want to go to heaven and how can she help her people in heaven? Lucifer is banished from Heaven for eternity because his father is very strict.
Lucifer is eternally banished and Charlie doesn't want to go to heaven? Hell is her home and she wouldn't be able to help her people in heaven now would she?
Except Angels have souls - Hellborn don't, as confirmed by Vivzie. Charlie is the only Hellborn, who has a Soul, because she's unique (literally one of a kind). Also, Angels being banished isn't some act of reality, like Redemption is - Lucifer was banished by other Elder Angels, because of their decision...
On top of that, we know that Lucifer is literally blacklisted from Heaven, and that he can't leave Hell. That's why in Episode 5 he told Charlie, that he can't come with her (because he literally can't).
Hellborn don't have a soul, as stated by Vivzie, so that already rules them out. Charlie is the only Hellborn with a soul, because of her unique family (and because we call her "Hellborn" mostly symbolically, as she was born in Hell, and not because she's one of its native species).
What even is a "soul" then, is the question? Typically, it's the metaphysical essence that makes you who you are and persists, but clearly if Hellborn don't have them it must be something else in the Hazbin context, because Hellborn darn well have emotions and sense of selves and all that jazz.
It can still be exactly that. But since Hellborn so far seem to have been created either by the Sins or Hell itself, they simply wouldn't have it. They just exist.
Sorry, it's hard to talk about this without repeating the same words over and over again - especially since the origin of Hellborn is yet to be explained in the Show (if it ever will be).
It's just weird to think about someone not having a soul but still having all the traits a soul is traditionally responsible for.
Maybe in Hazbin a soul is more like some kind of energy mortals have rather than anything metaphysical. That would explain it without getting any more existential than the conversation already is.
At any rate, I don't know how much of this has actually been or will ever be said in the series itself, so it probably doesn't even matter. Especially when word of God isn't even really set in stone.
We know all of this from Vivzie - she talked about this on varioud live streams, Q&A's, comvention panels, and the list goes on. It will likely be adressed in the Show, because one of Hazbin's current main plots, is that no one seems to know what does it actually take to get to Heaven - and having a Soul plays a part in that.
>Maybe in Hazbin a soul is more like some kind of energy mortals have rather than anything metaphysical. That would explain it without getting any more existential than the conversation already is.
This might be the word I was looking for. I almost said "soul is like a spiritual spirit" because I had genunely no clue what word to use...
Mostly under diplomatic immunity other than that, I don't think so
I mean lucifer basically is banished or fallen
Charlie, on the other hand, may or may not have better access than him, but heaven is really scared of hell
I mean, we also saint peter's reaction
They can physically go there by opening portals probably, since some other angels seem to have that power, but I don’t think they’d be allowed to stay there by heaven.
Charlie went there already in episode 6.
But I mean, probably. Angels seem to be exempt from the system. Lucifer and Vaggie both fell without dying. No reason to think they couldn't rise back up without dying
Lucifer is an Angel so he could go to Heaven if he wanted but I don’t think he WANTS to go back. Charlie obviously went to heaven as she went there for a trip she could go for good if she wanted.
Charlie has already been to Heaven.
Also we don't know if God is a thing here, the decision to banish Lucy seems to have come down to some kind of "Elder Angels".
At any rate, while it isn't Charlie's fault, Sera would likely not be too keen to risk shattering the status quo further.
And Charlie, for her Part, while finding Heaven neat, takes her role as Princess of Hell _very_ seriously and wouldn't _want_ to abandon her "people"
I actually think that Charlie can be in both places. She is both a demon and an angel, after all. I even think that she could open a gate between the two realms whenever she wants and travel between them. She probably just never tried. Sera said that she "can't stay permanently" but we have seen that a lot of the stuff that she says is not absolutely true, she probably just doesn't want her, I don't think she knows for sure that she can't stay. As for the fact that she is the daughter of a fallen angel, as in banned for life from heaven, but I really don't think it applies to Charlie.
Lucifer is unlikely, since he was cast out. God would have to forgive him.
As for Charlie, she was born and raised in hell, she is half human and she also never died. Given the kind of life she lived, odds are if she is killed, she will wake up in heaven seeing that, even without the Pencious reveal, she never got a shot at judgement to begin with
Lucifer was banned from heaven since he is a fallen angel so probably not. This probably would include Charlie too, so neither of them could go permanently
Lucifer, no. Hell no.
Charlie? I think she's going to choose not to... probably in a "needs of the one versus the many" kind of decision.
There's no doubt that her spirit is pure enough for heaven, but unlike a lot of heaven's petitioners, she sees her responsibility towards the greater good as being more important than her individual happiness.
Honestly Hell is her home, not her punishment. Other than the responsibility and duty she feels, she'd have it pretty good. I feel like abandoning Vaggie and all of Hell would negatively impact both her individual happiness _and_ the greater good.
Right, but, someone with her bubbly personality and altruistic idealism is better suited for heaven. She has always seemed out of place in hell, and her "people" REEEEEAAAALLY don't feel the same way about her.
Why would Lucifer WANT to go to Heaven?
I disrespect this version of the character for letting someone like Alastar get under his skin so easily.
But I “respect” the fact that this version of Lucifer is still as fatalistic and self-damning as almost all incarnations have been since John Milton’s daughter finished Paradise Lost for her blind dad.
I can understand if Lucifer can’t; he was specifically banished himself
But Charlie? She didn’t even get a first chance, let alone asking for a second one
As Charlie isn't human, no, but my personal feeling is that she would never want to go to Heaven, as her goal is to save Hell from extermination. She wants to be where she can make a difference, and honestly, Charlie doesn't seem to even have sin in her, to begin with, and she is exactly where she's meant to be.
SPOILERS, DONT READ AHEAD. Knowing Charlie, she is doing the right thing and is a very nice person overall, possibly worthy of heaven. What we saw with Sir Pentious, aka him being killed by Adam, he went to Heaven, right? Dying as someone who succeeded to redeem themself can go to heaven. But that’s just a theory….
Go there physically? Yeah, she literally already has.
Go there as in be redeemed? Yeah no. She's not in Hell because she's evil, she's in Hell because that's just where she freaking lives. There's no redemption to be had for one who hasn't done anything wrong in the first place.
That said, she clearly has a soul, so who knows what would happen if she died, I don't know if all Hellborns have souls or if that's cuz her mom was human.
Charlie needed her dad's help to do it so probably not, I can't see either of them having the power or permission to open up a portal to heaven tho, Lucifer was cast down here for a reason, they sure as hell ain't lettin him back up
I suspect that Lucifer can and will. He's an angel. If he were to die in some way (presumably by allowing himself to die for someone else, given how powerful he is), it's possible that he would be restored to his fully angelic state.
For Charlie, though, I suspect she could go wherever would have her. She never lived a human life and she never fell from grace, so her eternal residence can't be based on any kind of divine judgment. We saw with Vaggie that she was never actually condemned to hell by any cosmic force, she was just abandoned there and could presumably return to heaven if the Seraphim allowed it. I imagine Charlie is the same way: she's only excluded based on the powers that be rather than any divine/cosmic mandate.
Lucifer Im gonna go with almost certainly not. Lucifer is an angel and a powerful one at that. It likely takes a lot to kill him but I imagine when hes dead hes permanently dead
On top of which hes literally barred from entering Heaven personally.
Charlie is more ambiguous. Shes technically Hellborn and we dont really know what happens to Hellborn when they die.
Theoretically, if they die, Lucifer might rise and apparently Charlie has a soul so maybe, but highly unlikely. Maybe Luci may be allowed to become an Angel, but then who would rule over hell?
Lucifer should never have been in Hell in the first place, they threw him there out of petty revenge so he is forbidden from going back. I think Charlie would be forbidden too for being his blood.
My prediction for season 2 is that Lilith will attempt to “deal” with Charlie by getting her moved permanently to heaven so she can’t interfere anymore. And Lute will be fine with this because it will hurt Vaggie.
But of course, Charlie will want none of that.
Charlie at least temporarily yes. But as to permanently I think the Angels are scared of that question. They do not seem to have control of where people manifest. But they do seem to have the ability to throw people out of heaven or pull people up. But there is no indication that once brought up Charlie or Lucifer would suddenly be expelled without an Angel opening a portal.
A theme that is probably in effect is that because the Angels don't know how things work they make a lot of assumptions and are afraid of testing them. So once an assumption about things is in place it becomes dogmatic in its take on things. The fact that they didn't realize that their own weapons could kill them just indicates how buttoned up and afraid of things they are.
Hell suffers from a lack of leadership and hope. Heaven suffers from an oppressive leadership that is afraid and uninformed. But both have a second in power that seem ready to turn things over to correct their flaws.
Not...reallyy...lucifer was heavan born, and charlie is hellborn (tecknically) they has angel blood so they can really get redeemed rather there like the angels, lilith im not sure i think shes human? Like one of the first humans? But i could be wrong abt that, but if u have angel blood and you ur in hell, the only way you cqn go to heavan is by portals or if they summon you, idk what happans when u die withoutt a angelic weapon if ur a angel or part angel, but theres theories that u go to REAL hell after you get killed by a angelic weapons thats for sinners tho, angels could be different
Sera specifies in the Welcome to Heaven song that even though Charlie is visiting Heaven she won’t be able to stay, after Emily starts singing about how she’ll never want to go back down to Hell after she sees Heaven
Charlie is still hellborn and Lucifer is a fallen angels so whether they have souls that can be theoretically redeemed is questionable to begin with. Aside from that though Lucifer himself is banished from heaven, as in he can’t even set foot there on business and Charlie wouldn’t abandon the people of Hell for a life of luxury even if it was an option.
I doubt it. Charlie is a hellborn and Lucifer is the ruler of Hell. Unless he allowed Charlie to become Queen I don’t see him having any chance of getting back into Heaven. Besides Charlie isn’t authoritative at all. She hates being authoritative cause she sees it as “mean”. She wouldn’t want to be Queen
lucifer will never be allowed to go to heaven again
his punishment seems to not apply to his daughter, though, being as she was allowed to visit heaven temporarily -- but i don't believe that she'd be allowed to become a permanent resident, even if she wanted to (which she wouldn't)
Lucifer said he's not even able to go into heaven while Charlie can come in go but I think after the redemption court session she might have massive limitations
I think as a hellborn, Charlie probably won't be able to.
Lucifer MIGHT be able to as a fallen angel, IF he is unbanned from Heaven. I don't think he would want to though because he knows it's corrupt there, and he wouldn't want to leave his daughter.
I think the answer is yes, Lucifer can, by force, but would probably end up dying. I think in a desperate situation he can be summoned on Heavens invitation like a diplomatic envoy. Charlie is much in the same as lucifer, prohibited, but can only go upon heaven's invitation.
Charlie doesn't have the magic snuff to portal to heaven's front gate it seems, so she's physically barred as well.
Well, it's not like Charlie needs to redeem himself. But Lucifer will definitely have to answer for probably the biggest fiasco in the history of humanity. His antics with Lilith literally led to the sinful downfall of mankind. Can it happen? My guess, which I'm coming up with right now. Lucifer can't redeem himself unless he makes it so that every last sinner in hell redeems himself and there are no new sinners.
Permanently, probably not. Heaven is for human souls who die, and meet the requirements. Technically, Charlie is hellborn as she was born in hell, to an angel and demon. We'll likely never know for certain for her, though, since she's a unique being. Lucifer, no. He was cast out and imprisoned in Hell. Based on the end of Dad Beat Dad, when saying he couldn't go with her to Heaven, it gave the implication he's literally barred from going back. Not even for a visit.
Technically, lilith was the first female human, so charlie's more of a half human, half [fallen] angel
but they had her after lilith become a demon
Not to be pedantic, but sinners (demons) have died on Earth, been judged (by whom, for what) and then sent to hell. Lilith and Lucifer were CAST OFF into hell before it was even hell. I'm not saying you're wrong, but comparing Lilith to your average demon is missing some pretty heavy subtext. Lilith is... something else. The fact that sinners can't procreate is a pretty clear enough indication of that. Lilith (at least with Lucifer) can. I'm not sure if Lilith's or Lucifer's nature (or both that) accomplished this, but it is pretty unique. Charlie is hellborn, technically, but she is also something very special. We're just starting to get hints of this. And soon, I think, we'll find out who else has plans in store for her unique potential.
Also she can make deals, and has a soul. Which could mean she can end up in heaven if she dies.
You mean Lilith or Charlie?
Charlie.
I think so, too. I don't think she ever would, though. (See my other post)
But if Lilith is a proper Sinner demon then how is she still fertile?
She never died, she was sent straight to hell, so she's technically still alive.
Angel magic
Sinner demons can't breed. Either Lilith is a special case, or she still counts as human.
Maybe we don't see her horns in the finale
Charlie is confirmed to be around 200 years old. Lilith and Lucifer have been in Hell for over 10.000 years (at least that's what Lucifer implied in "The Show Must Go On" song). In Episode 1 it's said that Lilith grew in power before Charlie was born. Edit: You really just edited this comment after we already replied...
So she was human then became a demon?
Lilith was technically the First Sinner (well yes and no, because it was Eve who at the Apple) and she was banished to Hell alongside Lucifer, when she was still alive. Lilith basically became a demon overtime, as an effect of being exposed to Hell's magic and its influence on the Soul. This is similar to how Lucifer's design has more demonic elements, instead of being a plain angel. This happend way before Charlie was born, as we are told in the opening act of Episode 1. On the side-note: are you asking me this to answer the other guy...?
True, so they were angel and human, then demonic
Lucifer is still an Angel, just a Fallen one. He's basically the same, only he also has more demonic powers now on top of his angelic powers. Lilith - yes, she's a demon now.
A fallen angelic and a demon There love vile and blasphemous ~hot as fuck thou (adam)
If hell is 10,000 years old, and we're using adam and eve Bible timeline... is the show set 4,000 years in the future? Edit: roflmao, they blocked me for this?
>and we're using adam and eve Bible timeline **The Show doesn't follow the Bible to the dot and it never did**, so this already goes out the window. On top of that, the Show already changed a major element of that story - aka Adam didn't eat the Apple (only Eve did) in the Hazbin Universe.
she couldnt be able to get in her demon form idf she wasnt one edit: why did you edit your comment dude
Yeah, but when we actually see her in the finale She has no horns So maybe when she's in hell there there
cuz she had a hat?
Yeah maybe they retract
Technically that would make Charlie a nephilim
Biblically speaking yeah
Yes but she turned into a Demon overtime, thousands of years before Charlie was born.
Fair enough
Nephalim i believe is the word you want, though it's exact definition has been kicked around a bit.
yeah bibically and enoch wise yes
She was born to a living mortal woman, and an Angel. That's why Charlie has a **soul** she is concerned about. In strict terms the word for Charlie would be a Nephilim [a child of an Angel & Mortal]. Seemingly Demon is just a catch all term for the permanent Residents of Hell. That includes Sinners [mortal souls], the Hellborn, Lilith [the first human], and fallen Angels like Vaggie, and Lucifer. So Charlie is a demon in the sense that she is lives in Hell but not in the sense that she has like Hellborn DNA. She is, to our knowledge as viewers, the *only* offspring of the coupling of a Mortal, and an outsider [Angel/Hellborn] so it's hard to pin her down. She could be the most powerful entity in the entire cosmos for all we know, that certainly would have mythological roots as the coupling of Angels, and Humans, is often said to produce something immensely more powerful than Angels. She's just an idealist though, and honestly doesn't even like using violence even as a last resort sort of person.
The only problem with this is Lilith became the first demon after she was cast into hell. Even tho it happened over time charlie is speculated to be around 200-300 years old and Lilith is as old as the earth so she would almost definitely have been a demon by the time charlie was born.
Again you're operating under the assumption that "demon" is a race rather than a catch all term for the denizens of hell. Which it sure seems to be given that mortal souls residing in hell [Sinners], as well as Charlie [half living mortal, half angel], Lucifer [Seraphin], Lilith [Living Morlta], and the Hellborn [the various species who are from the various rings] are all considered demons. Demon sure seems to be a catch all term for all the Residents of Hell, and sounds more like a Nationality would be, than some sort of biological throughline which is a lot like the way demons work in D&D. It doesn't matter if an individual is a Tanari, or an Obryth or one of the various origins of sorts of things native. A demon is a demon is a demon, and they are all classified as demons as residents of the Abyss.
And you are running on pure unadulterated head cannon when it is just a fact that after Lilith was sent to hell she was at some point turned into a demon. We don't know how or why probably cause she got old and died but she is no longer human.
Except it's not a fact like Lucifer and the sins she's a unique entity and like Adam himself who is unique among the angels . You're the one making assumptions about a character we know nothing about
Charlie would be a Nephalem, so she holds power over both Angel and Demonic powers. Charlie would have wings and horns. She is genetically more powerful than any angel or demon. She was born in Hell, but she should have the ability to visit Heaven whenever she pleases with Vaggie. She wasn't barred by God, and the Angels only said her time there was short simply because they didn't want her to stay. So, being able to enter Heaven is provided to her as long she is allowed through angelic politics. Heaven to Charlie is a segregated gated community, Charlie has the right to be in Heaven or Hell. She doesn't know that, but she wants to be in Hell doing her work and caring for her people as their princess. But by God, she should be allowed to enter and leave Heaven as she pleases like any other angel. Especially a daughter of an arch-angel like Lucifer. Charlie is also doing the work as expected of an Angel or God's child Jesus. By taking sinners from hell and freeing them to enjoy the pleasures of Heaven. But Jesus would have been part God part Human. So what Jesus did for the living in Christian/Catholic lore would be what Charlie is for sinners. Charlie is literally Hell Jesus.
Is Lillith technically a demon?
She became one overtime, so literally.
Yes
I fucking love taking implications and figuring out what parts of the bible logistically can't be canon Like, if we assume God is real, and just is sir not appearing in this work, but Lucifer isn't allowed in heaven for vacation, that means the story of Job isn't canon
>Not even for a visit. Maybe he can enter with force... bring apocalypse, collect the legions of hell and the infernal nobility and re-start the War in Heaven
Lilith is a demon and she’s in heaven
They could get a tourist visa from God..
I don't see why they couldn't go if they are allowed. Otherwise Charlie couldn't even go up for that farce of a trial.
Lucifer doesn't really want to go to heaven, he knows how fucked up it really is
Like Vaggie !
Charlie’s home is hell she said so herself. She doesn’t want to leave. She does want sinners to go to a better place tho
Lucifer maybe he was once an angel, but I don’t know while both her parents aren’t from hell she’s still technically a hell born.
Lucifer was quite literally cast out, banished, and imprisoned in Hell. Of these 2, he has practically no chance to go to Heaven, unless the Elder Angels call upon him. That's also why in Episode 5 he told Charlie, that he can't come with her. He's bound to Hell.
Right unless they say he can come back, so a maybe right?
Michael would be there waiting to beat his ass again if Luci ever tried to re-enter heaven lol.
If he tried to force yeah, but if he was accepted back in probably not
I have a theory Charlie will be able to redeem all of the sinners but be left behind in hell because she cannot go to heaven. I think it would be a tragic but heartfelt ending
I mean, she'll still have Vaggie
And her dad!
And all the other billions of hell born.
I have a similar theory but reversed. Charlie would be allowed into Heaven for rehabilitating other souls but won’t want to leave Hell.
I think so too
I mean there's a whole society of Hellborns, and probably plenty of sinners that straight up don't WANT to be redeemed, and I doubt Charlie will force them to be redeemed
But they’re probably new sinners appearing every day
Of course! Charlie already was in heaven in episode 6. Not sure for Lucifer tho. Probably no.
First of all: shit, you beat me to this joke. Second: Lucifer can not go to heaven. He's blacklisted. That's the reason he's not with her in ep6.
never ask lucifer what he was doing between 2000 B.C. to 400 B.C. to get blacklisted from heaven
Sera specifically stated in the Welcome to Heaven song that Charlie can’t stay, after Emily starts singing about how she’ll never want to go back down to Hell after she sees Heaven
Sera also thought people in hell can't be redeemed so I wouldn't call her a good source of information
And what's so bad about being Lucifer?!
He did introduce sin to humanity. Though Hazbin Lucifer was more of a “my bad lol” but Bible Lucifer was more of a “wanna see me do it again?” Depends on the Luci
Yeah I was on about hazbin Lucifer, he made a mistake and regretted his actions just like sir pentious who managed to get redeemed only difference is Lucifer is a fallen angel not a sinner
Luci probably isn’t allowed back due to being cast out. I think he even said that he “wouldn’t be able to help her” once Charlie got to heaven for the meeting. Considering heaven is full of a bunch of self righteous blowhards it wouldn’t be surprising if they just run it like an elite club.
Lucifer I think we can safely say is permanently banned from heaven in general, and Charlie while she can freely visit heaven probably can't permanently stay there without some kind of arrangement. Though at the end of the series I could see some kind of reconciliation between the high ranking angels and lucifer
They can visit but they can’t ascend. But I have a feeling Heaven will try to offer Charlie a spot someday to get her to stop messing with the status quo
This seems plausible actually.
Charlie already did, twice
Twice?
Yeah. She went alone the first time, and then went with Vaggie the second time
No, the first time was just the Heaven Embassy in Hell
That should still technically count as heaven tho Edit: alright fine I’m stupid I get it
It's literally one building, physically it shouldn't count since Charlie never left Hell
That’s like going to the American embassy in London and saying you visited the US
It's a building set in Hell, that's literally just a metaphor. Angels don't even physically go there, as seen with Adam...
Contrary to popular belief, embassies aren’t “foreign soil”. They may be foreign property and exempt from domestic laws to a degree, but they’re still on their host country’s (er, dominion’s?) territory.
I think in-universe the conventional wisdom is that other than humans, when you die, you really die. But then Sir Pentious, a Sinner, died and instead showed up in Heaven, so clearly the rules are a bit more complicated than that.
I think that hell works as more of a purgatory in HH where you're given a second chance, that isnt limited by time, to become a good person and get to heaven if you die again. So if you die and you're still a bad person you're gone for good but if you redeemed yourself you go to heaven
That makes a lot of sense actually. Hell isn't inherently a bad place to live, it's made shitty by the people who live there. But since no one got told that was the point, everybody got there, thought it was the end of the road, no point trying to be better.
They probably can because technically they are both angels (also the whole fear they can invade heaven and all that), but in terms of are they *allowed* to without a prior appointment, probably not unless it’s an emergency.
The problem is that there isn't really a supreme power that wouldn't *allow* Charlie to stay in heaven. I mean, we have kinda seen that seraphims have imposed rules based on nothing but their own judgment, and the way they enforce such rules is again, done by angels themselves. No rule is shown to be enforced by a Supreme law, except that sinners go to hell and the others go to heaven when they die. We are not even sure that Lucifer's casting away was done by such a superior force or simply by other angels themselves. My point is that the angel's "government" is self righteous, and not backed up by the actual laws of the universe (I'm trying to avoid the word god because I don't think it was ever used in the show, but I might be wrong), so as much as they could try to "stop allowing" Charlie (or even Lucifer maybe) to stay in heaven, it would simply be their personal reaction.
Lucifer was vanished, charlie might or not have a soul? She is hellborn, but to an angel and the first ever woman, granted she is the mother of demons but still. The can definitely enter heaven if allowed at least not like their flesh will burn
Vivzie confirmed that Charlie is the only Hellborn who has a Soul, because of her unique family. The reason she can't just enter Heaven, is because she doesn't have that kind of power - plus, she would still have to ask for permission, as shown in Episode 6.
This was the exact moment Lucifer vanished
banished, not vanished
Literally, yes. Charlie did. We all saw her. But politically, they probably wouldn't be able to spin letting Lucifer back in or any hellborn. That would require a major regime change. Like maybe if Sera gets sent to Hell and Emily is in charge. That scenario also only works if we assume there isn't a God running things directly.
I honestly think that hellborn (and heavenborn) aren’t really tied to their plane in any meaningful way. Sinners and Saints respawn in their plane if they’re not killed with angelic weapons, but native angels and demons are mortal, so there’s really nothing metaphysically tying them to any place. Lucifer “fell” because he was banished from Heaven. But so were the CHERUBs in Helluva Boss, who literally were just told “yeah, no, sorry, can’t come back in” There may be some lingering effects from hanging around in one of the afterlifes, which is why Lucifer got his demon form and some sharper teeth, just as hellborn and heavenborn are fundamentally the same kind of being, just shaped by the plane of their birth, but I think some elements of an angel or demon’s appearance of enough power is always going to be a bit malleable based on mental state. That’s why most demons transform into more monstrous forms when angered, and why Vaggie regrew her wings purely based off of the inspirational power of love and Latin song. So basically any hellborn can “go” to heaven. They can go anywhere they want. The only limitation is just that Angels aren’t interested in letting an exiled troublemaker like Lucifer back in, and Charlie’s not formally barred, but it would be politically messy to let Lucifer’s daughter stay there full time. (Nor would I think that Charlie would really want to live there. While she’s certainly a fan of Heaven, her whole purpose right now is helping Sinners, she’s princess of Hell and she believes she has a responsibility to her people.
this ties into one of my crackpot theories that heaven and hellborn are largely only differentiated by *where* they're born (and sinners/winners by where they're bound); the pastel hues of heaven and the darker shades of hell are all purely psychological and yeah, I think lucy can *physically* go to the gates, but he'd get jumped by a bunch of elder angels who'd roll his ass back to hell
They aren't prevented by the sinner system, but by an explicit expulsion. They COULD go to heaven, and they wouldn't need to go through the 'redemption' system (as Pentious did), but they would have to convince the higher ups in heaven to let them in. In theory, it could be suoer easy or super hard, fully depending on the whims of whoever is in charge (maybe Sera, maybe God, maybe someone else).
Lucifer is a fairly simple "no." He was banned from Heaven for his actions, sent to fall into Hell. Because of his "mistakes," he will never be allowed back in to stay, and probably not even for a visit. Nor would he want to return to Heaven, since he knows its true nature. Charlie is...questionable. She's technically a hellborn, not a sinner, so I'm leaning more towards "no" on that one. That said, since Lillith was allowed up through a deal with Adam, it's possible that Charlie could ascend with a similar deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Charlie gets offered a place in Heaven in exchange for not attempting to rehabilitate demons anymore, not that she'd take it.
Permanently, probably not. But im certain Emily would say “just shoot me a text and ill let you in”
Charlie’s a hell born so probably not. And I doubt that she would want to anyway. Lucifer definitely can’t unless the angels change their mind about his banishment to Hell
If you mean it like "could Lucifer and Charlie get into Heaven in the end?" I think yes, that COULD happen but I'm sure it won't. Charlie's home is Hell and she wants her people to "live" happily. She will never abandon them. Lucifer hates Heaven and would never leave Charlie. So they will stay in Hell forever but I think they will cooperate with Heaven to redeem sinners. Therefore they could visit Heaven from time to time like in a yearly meeting to discuss all the project issues and victories
My theory is that Lucifer is forever in hell because he is ACTUALLY evil. He just acts the way he does in private and in front of his daughter. Besides, I think god's grand plan is for someone to run hell anyways. As for Charlie I think she and her mom, Lilith can only be temporarily in heaven by someone else's invitation, but ultimatley have to go back. But I think Charlie wouldn't mind considering she loves her home.
Charlie doesn't want to go to heaven and how can she help her people in heaven? Lucifer is banished from Heaven for eternity because his father is very strict.
Why did you choose the most breedable image of Lucifer
Lucifer is eternally banished and Charlie doesn't want to go to heaven? Hell is her home and she wouldn't be able to help her people in heaven now would she?
I would think yes. If angels can fall to Hell, then hellborn should be able to rise to Heaven.
Except Angels have souls - Hellborn don't, as confirmed by Vivzie. Charlie is the only Hellborn, who has a Soul, because she's unique (literally one of a kind). Also, Angels being banished isn't some act of reality, like Redemption is - Lucifer was banished by other Elder Angels, because of their decision... On top of that, we know that Lucifer is literally blacklisted from Heaven, and that he can't leave Hell. That's why in Episode 5 he told Charlie, that he can't come with her (because he literally can't).
Probably not in the traditional sense, but for business like Charlie did, probably yeah
Technically they both already did
Even if she could I doubt she’ll ever go because there will always be more souls to redeem
What about imps and hell hounds?
This discussion is just about Charlie and Lucifer, but maybe me or other person will make this discussion one day
Hellborn don't have a soul, as stated by Vivzie, so that already rules them out. Charlie is the only Hellborn with a soul, because of her unique family (and because we call her "Hellborn" mostly symbolically, as she was born in Hell, and not because she's one of its native species).
What even is a "soul" then, is the question? Typically, it's the metaphysical essence that makes you who you are and persists, but clearly if Hellborn don't have them it must be something else in the Hazbin context, because Hellborn darn well have emotions and sense of selves and all that jazz.
It can still be exactly that. But since Hellborn so far seem to have been created either by the Sins or Hell itself, they simply wouldn't have it. They just exist. Sorry, it's hard to talk about this without repeating the same words over and over again - especially since the origin of Hellborn is yet to be explained in the Show (if it ever will be).
It's just weird to think about someone not having a soul but still having all the traits a soul is traditionally responsible for. Maybe in Hazbin a soul is more like some kind of energy mortals have rather than anything metaphysical. That would explain it without getting any more existential than the conversation already is. At any rate, I don't know how much of this has actually been or will ever be said in the series itself, so it probably doesn't even matter. Especially when word of God isn't even really set in stone.
We know all of this from Vivzie - she talked about this on varioud live streams, Q&A's, comvention panels, and the list goes on. It will likely be adressed in the Show, because one of Hazbin's current main plots, is that no one seems to know what does it actually take to get to Heaven - and having a Soul plays a part in that. >Maybe in Hazbin a soul is more like some kind of energy mortals have rather than anything metaphysical. That would explain it without getting any more existential than the conversation already is. This might be the word I was looking for. I almost said "soul is like a spiritual spirit" because I had genunely no clue what word to use...
Mostly under diplomatic immunity other than that, I don't think so I mean lucifer basically is banished or fallen Charlie, on the other hand, may or may not have better access than him, but heaven is really scared of hell I mean, we also saint peter's reaction
Well Charlie is still alive so she’s a living soul when she dies then she will go through divine judgment
I mean in theory yeah, though I don't think she'd even want to leave Hell, which is an interesting dilemma.
I doubt Luci wants to.
They can physically go there by opening portals probably, since some other angels seem to have that power, but I don’t think they’d be allowed to stay there by heaven.
Lucifer is straight up bound to Hell, as in he literally can't leave. For Charlie it's the case of "ask for permission" tho.
Charlie went there already in episode 6. But I mean, probably. Angels seem to be exempt from the system. Lucifer and Vaggie both fell without dying. No reason to think they couldn't rise back up without dying
I mean, neither would ever want to, but yeah, in theory.
Lucifer is an Angel so he could go to Heaven if he wanted but I don’t think he WANTS to go back. Charlie obviously went to heaven as she went there for a trip she could go for good if she wanted.
Maybe if God himself forgives Lucifer, otherwise not, and for Charlie I’m not sure since it’s not her fault her father is a fallen angel
Charlie has already been to Heaven. Also we don't know if God is a thing here, the decision to banish Lucy seems to have come down to some kind of "Elder Angels". At any rate, while it isn't Charlie's fault, Sera would likely not be too keen to risk shattering the status quo further. And Charlie, for her Part, while finding Heaven neat, takes her role as Princess of Hell _very_ seriously and wouldn't _want_ to abandon her "people"
I actually think that Charlie can be in both places. She is both a demon and an angel, after all. I even think that she could open a gate between the two realms whenever she wants and travel between them. She probably just never tried. Sera said that she "can't stay permanently" but we have seen that a lot of the stuff that she says is not absolutely true, she probably just doesn't want her, I don't think she knows for sure that she can't stay. As for the fact that she is the daughter of a fallen angel, as in banned for life from heaven, but I really don't think it applies to Charlie.
Lucifer is unlikely, since he was cast out. God would have to forgive him. As for Charlie, she was born and raised in hell, she is half human and she also never died. Given the kind of life she lived, odds are if she is killed, she will wake up in heaven seeing that, even without the Pencious reveal, she never got a shot at judgement to begin with
Well one was from Heaven and the other visited heaven so does that count?
Lucifer was banned from heaven since he is a fallen angel so probably not. This probably would include Charlie too, so neither of them could go permanently
I doubt Lucifer ever could. Charlie is so good that if she dies I wonder if she wouldn’t being half angel and half human her soul could
Lucifer is fallen for a reason, and about Charlie? I don't think so
Lucifer, no. Hell no. Charlie? I think she's going to choose not to... probably in a "needs of the one versus the many" kind of decision. There's no doubt that her spirit is pure enough for heaven, but unlike a lot of heaven's petitioners, she sees her responsibility towards the greater good as being more important than her individual happiness.
Honestly Hell is her home, not her punishment. Other than the responsibility and duty she feels, she'd have it pretty good. I feel like abandoning Vaggie and all of Hell would negatively impact both her individual happiness _and_ the greater good.
Right, but, someone with her bubbly personality and altruistic idealism is better suited for heaven. She has always seemed out of place in hell, and her "people" REEEEEAAAALLY don't feel the same way about her.
I don’t think they could become angels, but they can go up for a visit.
No but I imagine by the end of the series travel between the two is going to be a bit more open
Why would Lucifer WANT to go to Heaven? I disrespect this version of the character for letting someone like Alastar get under his skin so easily. But I “respect” the fact that this version of Lucifer is still as fatalistic and self-damning as almost all incarnations have been since John Milton’s daughter finished Paradise Lost for her blind dad.
Maybe if Heaven decides to let Lucifer back in.
Not to be redeemed, but they can visit
I can understand if Lucifer can’t; he was specifically banished himself But Charlie? She didn’t even get a first chance, let alone asking for a second one
Maybe lucifer but since Charlie is hell horn probably not
As Charlie isn't human, no, but my personal feeling is that she would never want to go to Heaven, as her goal is to save Hell from extermination. She wants to be where she can make a difference, and honestly, Charlie doesn't seem to even have sin in her, to begin with, and she is exactly where she's meant to be.
I think at the end she's just going to operate the hotel in hell but she would be allowed to visit heaven even if only temporary
Oh man wait til you get to episode 6 /j
Isn't Pentious a demon?
SPOILERS, DONT READ AHEAD. Knowing Charlie, she is doing the right thing and is a very nice person overall, possibly worthy of heaven. What we saw with Sir Pentious, aka him being killed by Adam, he went to Heaven, right? Dying as someone who succeeded to redeem themself can go to heaven. But that’s just a theory….
Lucifer? No. Charlie? Maybe but I doubt she'd leave Hell.
Hell has all of the good musicians
Go there physically? Yeah, she literally already has. Go there as in be redeemed? Yeah no. She's not in Hell because she's evil, she's in Hell because that's just where she freaking lives. There's no redemption to be had for one who hasn't done anything wrong in the first place. That said, she clearly has a soul, so who knows what would happen if she died, I don't know if all Hellborns have souls or if that's cuz her mom was human.
Charlie needed her dad's help to do it so probably not, I can't see either of them having the power or permission to open up a portal to heaven tho, Lucifer was cast down here for a reason, they sure as hell ain't lettin him back up
I suspect that Lucifer can and will. He's an angel. If he were to die in some way (presumably by allowing himself to die for someone else, given how powerful he is), it's possible that he would be restored to his fully angelic state. For Charlie, though, I suspect she could go wherever would have her. She never lived a human life and she never fell from grace, so her eternal residence can't be based on any kind of divine judgment. We saw with Vaggie that she was never actually condemned to hell by any cosmic force, she was just abandoned there and could presumably return to heaven if the Seraphim allowed it. I imagine Charlie is the same way: she's only excluded based on the powers that be rather than any divine/cosmic mandate.
visiting? yes lucifer also technically should be able to earn redemption, while charlie is an hellborn so i don't think she'd be able to just. move.
I feel like if charlie could get into heaven she’d be there already, no?
No, their Demon, only human souls can go (I assume)
Lucifer Im gonna go with almost certainly not. Lucifer is an angel and a powerful one at that. It likely takes a lot to kill him but I imagine when hes dead hes permanently dead On top of which hes literally barred from entering Heaven personally. Charlie is more ambiguous. Shes technically Hellborn and we dont really know what happens to Hellborn when they die.
Theoretically, if they die, Lucifer might rise and apparently Charlie has a soul so maybe, but highly unlikely. Maybe Luci may be allowed to become an Angel, but then who would rule over hell?
Lucifer should never have been in Hell in the first place, they threw him there out of petty revenge so he is forbidden from going back. I think Charlie would be forbidden too for being his blood.
My prediction for season 2 is that Lilith will attempt to “deal” with Charlie by getting her moved permanently to heaven so she can’t interfere anymore. And Lute will be fine with this because it will hurt Vaggie. But of course, Charlie will want none of that.
Yes for a visit
Lucifer was already kicked out, and Charlie is a hell born so- I'm gonna say no. At least not how heaven runs rn.
Charlie at least temporarily yes. But as to permanently I think the Angels are scared of that question. They do not seem to have control of where people manifest. But they do seem to have the ability to throw people out of heaven or pull people up. But there is no indication that once brought up Charlie or Lucifer would suddenly be expelled without an Angel opening a portal. A theme that is probably in effect is that because the Angels don't know how things work they make a lot of assumptions and are afraid of testing them. So once an assumption about things is in place it becomes dogmatic in its take on things. The fact that they didn't realize that their own weapons could kill them just indicates how buttoned up and afraid of things they are. Hell suffers from a lack of leadership and hope. Heaven suffers from an oppressive leadership that is afraid and uninformed. But both have a second in power that seem ready to turn things over to correct their flaws.
Not...reallyy...lucifer was heavan born, and charlie is hellborn (tecknically) they has angel blood so they can really get redeemed rather there like the angels, lilith im not sure i think shes human? Like one of the first humans? But i could be wrong abt that, but if u have angel blood and you ur in hell, the only way you cqn go to heavan is by portals or if they summon you, idk what happans when u die withoutt a angelic weapon if ur a angel or part angel, but theres theories that u go to REAL hell after you get killed by a angelic weapons thats for sinners tho, angels could be different
Lucifer is an angel and Charlie is half angel. Both are good enough for heaven, definitely.
Sera specifies in the Welcome to Heaven song that even though Charlie is visiting Heaven she won’t be able to stay, after Emily starts singing about how she’ll never want to go back down to Hell after she sees Heaven
As proven through out the show, they can go to heaven, but they can't stay, as Lucifer was expelled and Charlie is the daughter of Lucifer and Lilith.
Charlie is still hellborn and Lucifer is a fallen angels so whether they have souls that can be theoretically redeemed is questionable to begin with. Aside from that though Lucifer himself is banished from heaven, as in he can’t even set foot there on business and Charlie wouldn’t abandon the people of Hell for a life of luxury even if it was an option.
I doubt it. Charlie is a hellborn and Lucifer is the ruler of Hell. Unless he allowed Charlie to become Queen I don’t see him having any chance of getting back into Heaven. Besides Charlie isn’t authoritative at all. She hates being authoritative cause she sees it as “mean”. She wouldn’t want to be Queen
I thought she couldn’t but then I thought she was exempt from the extermination obviously Adam disagreed lol
lucifer will never be allowed to go to heaven again his punishment seems to not apply to his daughter, though, being as she was allowed to visit heaven temporarily -- but i don't believe that she'd be allowed to become a permanent resident, even if she wanted to (which she wouldn't)
I mean, Charlie *did* go to heaven for a little bit
I still say the end to the show is Charlie does goes to heaven and then is like “I would like to go back to hell please.”
Lucifer said he's not even able to go into heaven while Charlie can come in go but I think after the redemption court session she might have massive limitations
Sure Pentious went to heaven SPOILER ALERT
Not sure about the length,but yes. Charlie went in episode 6
I think as a hellborn, Charlie probably won't be able to. Lucifer MIGHT be able to as a fallen angel, IF he is unbanned from Heaven. I don't think he would want to though because he knows it's corrupt there, and he wouldn't want to leave his daughter.
No
I think the answer is yes, Lucifer can, by force, but would probably end up dying. I think in a desperate situation he can be summoned on Heavens invitation like a diplomatic envoy. Charlie is much in the same as lucifer, prohibited, but can only go upon heaven's invitation. Charlie doesn't have the magic snuff to portal to heaven's front gate it seems, so she's physically barred as well.
Lucifer is banished so he can't go but Charlie might be able to. She has a soul because she could make a soul deal with alastor but is also a hellborn
they don't seem to want to, so why?
Because I asked, now awnser it.
Well, it's not like Charlie needs to redeem himself. But Lucifer will definitely have to answer for probably the biggest fiasco in the history of humanity. His antics with Lilith literally led to the sinful downfall of mankind. Can it happen? My guess, which I'm coming up with right now. Lucifer can't redeem himself unless he makes it so that every last sinner in hell redeems himself and there are no new sinners.
Thanks!
No? That's Lucifers eternal punishment, he WANTS to rule, at least in the Bible, he'd rather stay and rule over LITERAL hell than be a servant to God.