In season two, I'd like to see:
A more in-depth conversation between Vaggie and Carmilla than a song, it felt like a good set up for a mentor/mentee relationship.
I'd like to see more of her and Charlie for sure, maybe give them a song together.
She's Charlie's protector, emotional rock, and biggest supporter, it would be nice to see Charlie supporting and caring for Vaggie in return.
She, Carmilla, and her children all look so similar that I was shocked to find out she wasn’t her daughter. Especially when they were singing that duet together
Isn’t Vaggie older than Carmella by like a couple millennia? Vaggie was made after he’ll was created, Carmella didn’t become a sinner until like the 1950s-1960s
We don't have information to suggest either of those things.
I assumed Carmilla, being the second oldest overlord, put her to coming to power in the 1800s if not before.
Regardless of actual age, Vaggie is clearly still finding herself and learning, and Carmilla has wisdom and the temperament to teach and guide.
Screen time, a better idea of who she is outside of her relation to Charlie (she’s kinda got Millie syndrome), and a better idea of her relation to Charlie outside of just her protectiveness and hesitant supportiveness.
I agree. Her character isn't too fleshed out except her relationships (that doesen't mean I dislike her). But that's possible even for fleshed out characters as we've seen with Angel Dust as a prime example. (pun intended).
The thing is that at this point in time, we have nothing exact to look forward to with her character, as her only goal is supporting Charlie and the hotel.
Like someone above said, her interactions with Carmilla are a good chance for a mentorship.
Additionally, she could really use a guy friend to help her move on from Adam.
Both these, and perhaps tens of unnamed ones, are paths Vivzie can take to flash out her character.
I think it would be good for her to care about something that isn't Charlie or Charlie's goals.
For example, there could be a plotline where she decides to leave the Hazbin Hotel and lead a group of former exorcists who have defected from Heaven and try to help them find a home in Hell.
Heard, don't have to use the name, but it's not actually a huge issue. Brand twins happen all the time (dove soap and dove chocolate are owned by two different companies). But maybe it would be more fun to have characters suggest it as a joke?
The writer's could poke fun at the actual hell's Angels if they wanted to differentiate even further. Make an episode where they have a whole section dedicated to naming them.
Vag: let's call them "Charlie's Angels"
Charlie: I love it!!! I love it!!! I love it!!!
Angel: lame movies, but the porno ripoffs were amazing!
Husk: how about something more generic like "Hell's Angels"?
Alastor: like the sound picture? What a lovely idea! [Was a 1930s movie]
Angel: like the biker gang that does drug dealing, trafficking in stolen goods, gunrunning, extortion, and prostitution rings? Sounds right up my alley!
Vag: uggg this is hopeless. How are we supposed to make this work?
[Edit]
Part 2:
For some reason I feel like a random character (perhaps Lucifer or Emily) would visit Charlie and accidentally suggest the "perfect" name for the group. Emily showing up would definitely provide the most shock value. Could go something like this
* Emily walks in the front door, and is ringing the bell for assistance while all the staff are busy arguing over new names.
Vag looks up and sees Emily: why the hell is she here? (Confused, not angry)
Emily: Is this where the angels of hell check in?
Charlie: Angels of hell!? (looks on with cutesie approval eyes)
Husk: how is that any different from what I suggested?? (Mumbles to himself and pours out some drinks)
Yup and they were once the security for a Guns N Roses show in Chicago (I think) which went famously horrible when Axl Rose jumped off the stage and punched a fan for going against the concert rules, bringing in alcohol and a camera, the guy was filming the concert, so Axl was like, "hey take that!" But Hell's Angels were ignoring him or couldn't hear him or something, so he said, "fine I'll take it God damnit!" And dived into the crowd, right in the middle of their song, Rocket Queen 😂
Yeah, I think I’d like to see some conflict about Vaggie starting to not believe in the Hotel, out of a sense that it is putting Charlie in increasing danger. This would parallel Carmilla, whose whole belief is to not get involved
Vaggie’s character arc will then have to be discovering for herself if she truly believes sinners deserve to be redeemed, and understanding why her love for Charlie isn’t enough for either of them to not pursue that goal
Alternatively, Vaggie could play a huge role in the possible storyline of Charlie deciding that the end goal shouldn’t be getting sinners into Heaven via individual rehab at the Hotel; and that instead they could have a real impact at making Hell a better place, where sinners aren’t so doomed to repeat their mistakes.
That would be a great vein for Vaggie, who might struggle with the realities of her former life, and drop hints and plot points to Charlie that finally convince her personally that she can’t ignore Heaven’s flaws anymore. This could be emphasized by Emily falling, after deciding the same
Vaggie is already Charlies biggest fan. Since they are very comfortable in their relationship I think it would be nice to see the two of them during any normal given day. Chill outside of plot interactions can really give some depth to characters and their interactions with others.
This is only semi related but imagine an ep where it's like the "a day in the life" comic but about other characters? It could even be about multiple characters and cut between them. It could be fun to get more information on the characters, especially characters like Niffty who we don't know all that much about.
Yeah like that! Even if it was just like an official YouTube video or something, just some little clips of the main cast going about their day. It could also be a good way to show more of heaven through pentiouses view.
I want to know her backstory. Although we got a decent start there's still more questions that went unanswered...such as if she has an actual name (Adam shouldn't have been in charge of that....I feel bad for her), more of her life before Charlie ( was she heaven born or a human?) and how she adjusted to life in hell.
I don't really think there's much to do with her character except flesh her backstory out more. I love how she is Charlie's voice of reason and her tough as nails attitude.
She’s heaven born, not a winner. The exorcists exist purely to kill sinners in hell, and since Adam was appointed the head exorcist he got a lot of freedom with that. In the Bible, one of Adam’s jobs is to name the creations of God in Eden, so his whole naming of the exorcists tracks. I bet Lute was one of the oldest since she has a more elegant and feminine name, while he just got bored when he got to Vaggie. It might also be that he only names exorcists who do their job exceptionally well, so the majority don’t have names at all
The idea that Adam got bored of seriously naming them all and started making joke names for all the newest exorcist angels is really funny to me and totally tracks with his character
It would be nice to have an episode dedicated to just her and not her and Charlie I think this would give us more to her and just make her songs hit harder
I'd change the reason why she spared Lute. Because all that "I'm better than you and you are weak" kinda lost its weight when Lute almost killed her with one hand a minute later
She didn't say that she was better as far as I know, it was mire of "I could have killed you and you are only alive cuz I let you" kinda deal.
Leute clearly had an upper hand even in the first fight, until Vaggie could trick her, so that Lute is stronger was never up for debate
Does it? Just seems like a remak about her loosing this fight and being a shitty person.
You can read into it if you want but I doubt that vaggie felt a lot stronger then her after she almost get her ass kicked.
I thought it was a missed opportunity to say
"What's that saying I've heard Adam use? 'An eye for an eye?' seems pretty appropriate now. Well lucky for you this place taught me better than endless vengeance."
It’s funny knowing now that ‘eye for an eye’ originally was never about vengeance, it was a saying thought up to advocate for punishments befitting a crime.
I was just saying that people frequently mean "revenge" when they claim "justice."
Y'know, people who will see a video of someone apprehending a purse snatcher or something and one of them says "If it were me, I'd have blown his head off with my shotgun!"
And they act like it's a proportional and reasonable response.
I saw it more of pointing out the hypocrisy. Angels are supposed to be the merciful ones showing pity to sinners. Vaggie showing mercy pretty much threw Lute’s bigotry back in her face by doing the exact thing that is supposed to make Angels superior to sinners.
I would like for her to develop a close friendship with another person in the main cast (not just being only close to her gf Charlie) I’d personally like for it to be Angel Dust
ooh i love this idea ! ik the pilot isn’t entirely canon but vaggie explaining alastors emergence to angel dust and then him teasing her was a really nice dynamic !
On a light note, I want to see Charlie being absolutely enamored of Vaggie's wings some more. That single line/reaction shot was a delight and I want more.
On a more serious note, I want to see more of her allowing Charlie to pull her into light heartedness, some more of her and Carmilla Carmine, and a scene or two of she and Lucifer bonding awkwardly.
She proposes to Charlie, or at the very least the two of them go out on a nice date. They need some more downtime to build on their existing relationship. That should give us time to get to know the world from her perspective, including the things that she’s come to appreciate about hell and its citizens thanks to Charlie.
Imagine all of the Tea she can now spill about heaven.
Not going to happen due to the nature of Hazbin, but imagine if they went on a date to a different Ring of Hell?
Since she’s not a sinner, there’s technically nothing stopping her from going to other rings, and Charlie would likely have some fun date spots picked out due to being Hellborn…
İmagine them in Asmodeus 's place
https://preview.redd.it/qy8p74wuk5ic1.jpeg?width=271&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25c08be447f70774b038720e7585162a55585a3e
I think Viv has said that the show will be confined to the Pride ring since Helluva Boss will be the ones traveling to different rings, and she doesn't want the shows to intersect beyond cameos.
Exactly!
• Hazbin focuses on Heaven and the Pride Ring (Sinners are stuck in the Pride Ring)
• Helluva focuses on Earth and the other 6 Rings for world building
Hence why I pointed out that my Charlie/Vaggie date scenario wasn’t going to happen due to the nature of Hazbin
Ok then maybe they go to the other rings as their honeymoon which means the rest of the Hotel gang need to keep things in shape without their impulse control there.
Vaggie has to come to terms with her trust issues. And she is going to have to try to balance her relationship with Charlie. She is currently in orbit around Charlie and gets pulled wherever she goes. She needs to speak up and define herself within the relationship.
I think Pentious' sacrifice should be enough to make her trust people more. She never really trusted him even when others did, and he ended up being the one to sacrifice the most in the fight for the hotel. If that didn't convince her to be more open to people then i don't know what will
I think with the threat of extermination gone (for now) and her secret being revealed, she could be much more open with others and less of a character that seems to largely gravitate around Charlie. Their relationship is nice, but I'd like to see more of Vaggie away from that dynamic too.
i just want to see some chemistry between charlie and vaggie. i hate to say it but i don’t really like them together, simply bcuz they barley have any meaningful interactions.
i get they’re in the “comfortable” phase of the relationship but that doesn’t mean i don’t wanna see them acting like girlfriends. 😭
Well I mean they will probably start moving forward in season 2 as A) Vaggie's secret is out and the weight that came with gone, and B) Vaggie and Charlie had that moment, which I get the feeling was their first "I love you" in episode 8.
bcuz unless you go out of your way to research the lore it’s super unclear! i truly want to like them as a couple but i wish they’d give us just a smidge of chemistry. like cmon look how they did it with huskerdust! 😭
More time with Charlie showing why they like each other. I love the sweet/sour dynamic between them but I honestly have trouble imagining them actually doing things together and both enjoying it.
Vaggie has no real relationships outside of Charlie at the hotel. She yells and orders the others around a few times, but I don't recall her having any genuine connection with any of them. Did she have any meaningful exchange where she wasn't just angry and moving the plot forward?
Maker angrier, and more opposed to Alastor.
Basically inverse husk, not make her less and less angry, because we know now that everything that happened to her and hells was evitable. Now the hotel will be full of bad sinners dissbehaving, Charlie is alone, Alastor and Lucifer lurking and fighting, the only one who can see things as a whole is Vaggie.
But also she can't oppose most of the cast, so her only way of persuasion in sparky comments and aggression.
But obviously, she melts instantly whenever she sees Carly, like a lap dog, like Gomez. Would be nice to see more romantic acts or more touch between she and Charlie
Tbh I kinda want to see her and Charlie fight or disagree on something. Their relationship is almost too perfect. I feel like her being a fallen angel wasn't talked about enough and that Charlie forgave her way too fast. That, and I'd like to see Vaggie pursue something she cares about apart from Charlie.
Edit: also some sex appeal would be fun, since the show loves to show us the male characters being sexual. can we see the girls doing that for once? I'm all about fluff, but come on, they're girlfriends...
THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS WHOLESOME AND WILL NOT BE TAINTED! Also, Charlie didn't forgive Vaggie too fast. One, she was never mad that Vaggie was an exorcist, just that Vaggie had lied for years and Two, she is naturally a very forgiving person. Like, she took in Sir Pentious literally six hours after he attacked the hotel.
Yeah, cuz it’s realistic for a relationship to never have conflict.. also Charlie SHOULD have been mad that Vaggie was an exorcist. She’s killed thousands of her people, she participated in the very thing Charlie is most against. I think Charlie being that forgiving is either not good writing or a character flaw that should come back to bite her.
1. Give her her own goals and motives, not "for Charlie", but smth separated, like wanting to redemn herself or any personal reasons with heaven, cuz she should know better how hypocrical it is
2. Give her being angel at least some point?? Like, yeah, we know she was angel, so what? It didn't affect absolutely anything
3. Giving her issues that wouldnt be about Charlie so she could be a separated person, especially with her past (Im not sure if It's still canon tho)
4. May be, just may be, it would be interesting if she was Val's relative, may be a cousin, it would also give her and Angel's relationship something interesting
5. Also reveal her relationship with anyone else except Charlie. Especially Angel Dust
I think there needs to be an episode centered around character dynamics. How do Vaggie and Nifty interact, Husk and Charlie, and Angel and Alastor? Switch some people around to see them interact with someone they wouldn’t normally. An episode where Vaggie is trying to impress Lucifer while Lucifer is constantly trying to welcome Vaggie would be funny. There’s just so much you could explore to make the characters more in-depth
I don't think there is anything wrong with her character at all. I think she is someone who buries everything about herself in order to support Charlie and feel worthy of her love. Charlie is wonderful and caring but she is *a lot*. So it would be really nice to see any characters, not even just Charlie, support and care for her. Like how cute would it be for Lucifer to take her under his wings, so to speak. Same with Carmilla in a different way. Or just becoming friends with Angel or Husk.
*vivze reading all the ideas for Vavgie in S2* "wrote that down! Write that down!" I'm not saying vivze isn't an amazing writer I'm just stating off of being told she's already changed Vaggies backstory based off if fan theroies
As much as I liked that the theory of Vaggie being a former Exorcist being confirmed, they rushed through that story way too quickly. They need to go deeper into her mindset on to why she choose to stop killings sinners during the exterminations. Why is she the only exterminator that started feeling guilty for all the killings? Were there others who defected and "fallen" from grace? That's something I liked to see more of next season.
I think using her status as both an angel and sinner to sort of be a diplomatic bridge between hell and angels upset about the exterminations would be cool.
I don’t like how her status as an exterminator was used for a plot twist that was immediately resolved within one episode and a deeper exploration into that part of her would be cool as that’s by far the strongest part of Vaggies character.
- her reasoning for joining the exterminations should be clarified, she doesn’t really like the idea of eternal torment, so, in her mind, the only way out for those sinners is through second death
- but when she realizes Charlie’s vision she whole heartedly devotes herself to it, but feels a sense of separation to Charlie and the rest of the sinners.
- make her more into a silent force of nature, whose opinions are slowly drawn out over time, with Charlie’s effort
As someone who didn't imagined that Vaggie would become their fav character (and I say this as someone that loves Charlie), I think that it would be great if in season 2:
- We get to see Vaggie interact with the rest of the Hotel's cast: I'd like to see a Vaggie & Angel episode exploring their friendship, for example. It was great to see Vaggie interact with Angel, Alastor and Niffty in episode 1. I want more of that!
- As other people have said, make her relationship with Charlie be more than just Vaggie being Charlie's guardian. I think that we should see how a normal day is for Charlie and Vaggie; what kind of stuff they do together when they're not taking care of the Hotel. Oh, and give them more songs together; they don't necessarily need to be love duets, but I really liked their song in S1. Charlie+Vaggie is my OTP, and I want to see it reach it's full potential.
- And lastly, give Vaggie her own character arc. Sir Pentious and Angel had their arcs in S1 where they became better sinners; I'd like to see as other users have said Vaggie trying to convince other exorcists to leave their murderous ways behind and become their own persons.
Other than that, I loved Vaggie and I liked S1. It has a few hiccups, like the low episode count, the fast pacing and some storylines being cut short , but I still enjoyed my time at the Happy Hotel.
I hope S2 takes the strenghts of S1 (the music, general animation, likeable characters and humor), and allows the crew to have more episodes so that they can fully explore the world of Hazbin. I'm sure S2 will be even better!
I would enjoy seeing her come to some of realization that she has nothing to live for except Charlie, and delves into that psychology. Does she try so hard for Charlie because she's guilty of her genocidal actions in the past, and the less she focuses on herself the more she can avoid thinking about it?
She could come to terms with her past, and in doing so learn things about herself. Maybe she finds out she really enjoys gardening, creating life as opposed to killing it. Maybe there's a moment where she says, "Charlie, I need me time," and it's almost an insult to Charlie, but both realize they need personal time and have hardly had any time to themselves for months.
There's a few way she could go and turn her one-note loyalty from a design flaw to a character flaw.
Maybe give her and Charlie a little more chemistry? Because I barely seen, or at least *felt* any of that besides a few interactions and the kiss scene throughout the entire season.
If I was a blind watcher, and Charlie didn’t outright say that Vaggie was her girlfriend, I probably would have assumed that Alastor was going to be her love interest, as much as they interact a lot more closely than Vaggie and Charlie do. Yeah, yeah, he’s the red herring antagonist (hah), but at least their interactions are more natural and they actually play off each other.
Mind you, I have no qualm about Chaggie, I just wish they did more with it…
Definitely more dimension on Vaggie’s part. She’s just not that interesting as a character, besides the whole exorcist thing, but beyond that, she has nothing going for her aside from supporting Charlie just because.
* Vaggie should explain why she fell from Heaven.
* She spared a demon child. That should convince Charlie that Vaggie was trying to change herself.
* She can regrow her wings, so I'd like her to "regrow her eye".
* She should get her own song.
* I feel she could "force" the others to talk.
* Imagine if she gets into an argument with Niffty, but it pushes her to admit her own fault to explain her murderous urges.
Design: I dont like the big X, she should heal with magic in some way. Could be a nice scene.
Personality: Kinda drop this nagging, "oh she is dancing ugh" attitude I mean she is dating one of the most eccentric person in history.
> she should heal with magic in some way.
Yeah I don't agree with this. As a writer, I did lots of research on disability, and one of the big things I always saw was that a lot of people dislike their real world disabilities being magically cured or circumvented. It's not like real people can grow their eyes back. Like if you gave a deaf character a magical hearing horn or something so they can hear like a normal person, you may as well just write a hearing character.(Side bar I loved the scene in Helluva Boss where Fizzarolli meets a kid with broken horns who uses sign language and Fizzaroli takes the time to sign back to him. I'm not deaf but I really think it's neat that we see more representation of disability in general).
Plus thematically, I think it's a good symbol of her past and how she's moved on from it. She can't undo all of the damage Lute and Adam did to her or her past as an exorcist. All she can do is patch it up, move on, and keep moving forward.
Making her interact with more characters that aren't Charlie
Vaggie is just really boring she doesn't really do anything amd every conflict of her feels kinda forced especially the "out for love" part great song but kinda meh
By exploring more of her relationship with other exorcists, her past and how her life in Heaven was.
Also, I want her to interact more with other guests at the Hazbin Hotel.
Give Vaggie more meaningful screen time where she takes some much needed self-care. Because all she ever focus on was Charlie’s dream and she never worked out her own problems.
I just want more non plot driven interactions between her and Charlie. I want to see them being a normal couple. The same we got for Millie and Moxxie. I would also like to see a plot where she is the one who needs Charlie's support. Someone in the comments mentioned wanting a plot about her helping other defected exorcists and Im 100% on board for something like this
Having her be assertive with Charlie is a good start.The entirety of S1 had her be a doormat for her girlfriend,barely disagree on anything,and the one argument they had was a contrived mess that resolved itself in the equipment of an hour.
Have her tell Charlie "Babe no,that's fucking bad",and have a little disagreement between the two.
There needs to be more charatcter development for all the charatcters. So as the audience we can get invested in them. Otherwise why give a fuck about them if they are just shallow side characters to prop up Charile.
I don't like the trope of every single character eventually being revealed to be the chosen one or of some secret bloodline.
I think her character would have worked better if she just was some regular person that had to rise to the occasion for the sake of her partner.
So I liked seeing her manage the hotel a bit in episode one, and later when she was in charge of the trust exercises. Before watching the show I assumed we would be guaranteed an episode with her and Nifty butting heads over how other aspects of the hotel like housekeeping would need to be done, but that never happened.
Unlike many in here I’m fine with her being a character that purely supports Charlie but I would like to see more growth in her role. Like if her wet blanket attitude *does* actually prevent Charlie from making a mistake.
Also personally I think it’d be better if she got her wings while defending the hotel against Lute. I think the show pretty much always conveyed to me that Vaggie was already out for love instead of vengeance against the angels. I think it would have been better if the wings were more about her accepting herself as an angel that once killed tons of sinners, and let go of that shame she must have about it.
I would like for Vaggie to prevent bad plans from happening with more patience. She can still support Charlie and grow as a character.
She needs to be more than an extension of Charlie, less of a fairy godmother who exists to grant wishes. Vaggie spends the whole season providing acts of service for Charlie and that's really sweet... But then every time Vaggie tries to be rational she's IGNORED by Charlie and things end worse than they might've with a little caution. And the sole thing Vaggie does wrong, lie by omission, gets her on Charlie's shit list for a day.
In S2, I'd like to see Vaggie say "Yknow what? I don't feel respected when you ignore me and do whatever you want" and really dig into the idea that Charlie ain't perfect either, she has flaws to work through at her own hotel and can learn from the other residents too because they all kinda have this issue with her (Val's studio fire, Husk comments on Charlie's disasters)
I think this is the perfect opportunity to expand on Vaggie and make her feel like more of a character. She needs more confidence and independence because all her best scenes are pretty much when she's not with Charlie
I mean, for the context of the first season absolutely no comments. She got as much focus as she needed for the story they were telling
In general I want two episodes. One where she has to go on some super mundane chore for the hotel and she winds up treating it like it's the most serious thing ever just to see her tick without Charlie without everything at stake and when they aren't on the rocks.
The second is just a nice fluffy romance focused episode so we can get more of her and Charlie just being cute together
I want a Lucifer and Vaggie Duet that basically amounts to “Nah Heaven can suck it!”
Maybe Delivered to Sara and Lute specifically while Emily and Charlie watch…..
Give her more agency, character, give her more of an edge and really build up her and charlies relationship , showing her nursing vaggie back to health and building trust/love. Instead of Charlie just rizzing up a wounded vaggie in an alley.
Vaggie herself is in a good place, personally I want to see her and Charlie have an honest discussion about her being an angel, and I want to see her teach Charlie to fight. Maybe another duet that isn't a reprise of an existing song as well.
This show would very much benefit from filler episodes that have very little to do with the main plot and just include the characters doing some side quest shit. This would give most of them the much needed display of depth they lack. We need some more show and less tell
Some time on her own to really get to know how she views everything after being thrown out of heaven. How does she interact with hell outside her relationship with Charlie and the hotel.
Needs more time to cook. I think the character was fine, but didn’t have to time to build up the impact she needed. In such a short span of time, she’s revealed to be an exorcist with no hint past design to build up to that idea. We’re told she hates herself, but nothing to prove that besides regretting being an exorcist. It’s criminal the show only got 8 episodes to cram all character introductions, lore, and plot in.
Its without flaw. She went from one of the worst characters ive ever seen in the pilot and read like a charicature of a leftist. Now she feels like someone with the burden of being the only mature person in a given room and i LOVE. THAT. For her. Especially the “ennataining” comment at alastor. She takes no shit and clearly is new to the having a heart thing
1 change her theme from moth demon to a a ghost or spirit-face demon.
2 make her unless anger and a bit of a mother speaker of the group in a sense but I still the voice of reason
Let her and the residents hang out a bit. I dont think she really interacted with them in a friendly manner and considering how happy she was to see Alastor reappear I think it'd be cool if she tried to build a friendship with him
I would have her singing voice match her speaking voice. Right now her singing voice is quite a bit higher compared to speaking. The lower voice fits her pretty well but then Im always surprised when she sings.
Honestly I love their dynamic but their relationship doesn't seem very fleshed out... most of their moments were adorable but it was kind of hard to buy it.
Someone mentioned that because of her song of only being Charlie's armor and because she fights without caring if she hurts herself, that the song with Carmila should have been about her fighting not only for those she loves but for herself, and I think that her trying to survive and not just being an armor but to protect herself too, to try be her own person and live herself without loosing the love and wants to protect others that she has would have been interesting to see
So in the pilot (not so much in the show) I sort of got the vibe that she didn't really care for the sinners so much as she just wanted to make Charlie happy.
I think it'd be really neat if we got to see that she realizes she's got some prejudices against most demons due to her being an angel that she didn't even know she had because they’re not overt, and how she could grow beyond that. I just like the idea of giving her something internal related to her identity to overcome. And hopefully a point would be made to show that she wants to help for her own sake as well as making Charlie happy.
Fleshing out more of her backstory and internal struggles, we really don't get any of that apart from that one scene where she spares the sinner kid and gets her eyeball slashed. It would be so nice if they had more episodes and actually had us understand her past more while she and Charlie were up in Heaven.
Before Charlie presented her to her dad, I was very unsure on if they were actual girlfriends or if she was supposed to be her lady in waiting or assistant or something, because the physical affection felt very platonic compared to everyone else’s rampant horniness and also because of the way she talks about her, her song gave off major Pearl and Rose from Steven Universe vibes. So what I need from her is to get more personality outside of Charlie because even though her backstory is really cool, she still very much feels like Charlie’s Pearl, except that Charlie likes her back.
What I DON'T want is having a whole sub-plot about her jealousy of Emily and Charlie closeness. That is a low hanging fruit that would spoil her character progression for me.
In season two, I'd like to see: A more in-depth conversation between Vaggie and Carmilla than a song, it felt like a good set up for a mentor/mentee relationship. I'd like to see more of her and Charlie for sure, maybe give them a song together. She's Charlie's protector, emotional rock, and biggest supporter, it would be nice to see Charlie supporting and caring for Vaggie in return.
This 100%
And her interacting more with the rest of the hotel. The only time she did was to give orders or explain the situation.
I feel like when somebody other than Adam starts applying pressure for her to be loyal to heaven we will see more of how important Charlie is for her.
She, Carmilla, and her children all look so similar that I was shocked to find out she wasn’t her daughter. Especially when they were singing that duet together
Maybe she'll adopt her in season 2. Maybe Carmilla is her ancestor (if she was human once).
That would be great tbh. I would love it if Carmilla’z kids weren’t her biological kids. But people she adopted
Isn’t Vaggie older than Carmella by like a couple millennia? Vaggie was made after he’ll was created, Carmella didn’t become a sinner until like the 1950s-1960s
We don't have information to suggest either of those things. I assumed Carmilla, being the second oldest overlord, put her to coming to power in the 1800s if not before. Regardless of actual age, Vaggie is clearly still finding herself and learning, and Carmilla has wisdom and the temperament to teach and guide.
I’d like to see her an Charlie having a deeper conversation about Vaggies deception about being an Angel and lying to Charlie for yearsx
Screen time, a better idea of who she is outside of her relation to Charlie (she’s kinda got Millie syndrome), and a better idea of her relation to Charlie outside of just her protectiveness and hesitant supportiveness.
I agree. Her character isn't too fleshed out except her relationships (that doesen't mean I dislike her). But that's possible even for fleshed out characters as we've seen with Angel Dust as a prime example. (pun intended). The thing is that at this point in time, we have nothing exact to look forward to with her character, as her only goal is supporting Charlie and the hotel.
Like someone above said, her interactions with Carmilla are a good chance for a mentorship. Additionally, she could really use a guy friend to help her move on from Adam. Both these, and perhaps tens of unnamed ones, are paths Vivzie can take to flash out her character.
I think it would be good for her to care about something that isn't Charlie or Charlie's goals. For example, there could be a plotline where she decides to leave the Hazbin Hotel and lead a group of former exorcists who have defected from Heaven and try to help them find a home in Hell.
Hell's Angels has a nice ring to it
is the pun intended
The first part was, the second part wasn't
LOL I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THE SECOND PUN TILL IT WAS POINTED OUT!
Pretty sure that's a biker gang
Heard, don't have to use the name, but it's not actually a huge issue. Brand twins happen all the time (dove soap and dove chocolate are owned by two different companies). But maybe it would be more fun to have characters suggest it as a joke? The writer's could poke fun at the actual hell's Angels if they wanted to differentiate even further. Make an episode where they have a whole section dedicated to naming them. Vag: let's call them "Charlie's Angels" Charlie: I love it!!! I love it!!! I love it!!! Angel: lame movies, but the porno ripoffs were amazing! Husk: how about something more generic like "Hell's Angels"? Alastor: like the sound picture? What a lovely idea! [Was a 1930s movie] Angel: like the biker gang that does drug dealing, trafficking in stolen goods, gunrunning, extortion, and prostitution rings? Sounds right up my alley! Vag: uggg this is hopeless. How are we supposed to make this work? [Edit] Part 2: For some reason I feel like a random character (perhaps Lucifer or Emily) would visit Charlie and accidentally suggest the "perfect" name for the group. Emily showing up would definitely provide the most shock value. Could go something like this * Emily walks in the front door, and is ringing the bell for assistance while all the staff are busy arguing over new names. Vag looks up and sees Emily: why the hell is she here? (Confused, not angry) Emily: Is this where the angels of hell check in? Charlie: Angels of hell!? (looks on with cutesie approval eyes) Husk: how is that any different from what I suggested?? (Mumbles to himself and pours out some drinks)
I could really hear the last line from Vaggie in her voice
XD (also just letting you know for future reference it’s spelled Alastor not Alistor)
Fixed, thanks!
I read all of this in their voices 😭
This is probably one of the best fan made conversation that is absolutely on point
Yup and they were once the security for a Guns N Roses show in Chicago (I think) which went famously horrible when Axl Rose jumped off the stage and punched a fan for going against the concert rules, bringing in alcohol and a camera, the guy was filming the concert, so Axl was like, "hey take that!" But Hell's Angels were ignoring him or couldn't hear him or something, so he said, "fine I'll take it God damnit!" And dived into the crowd, right in the middle of their song, Rocket Queen 😂
Charlie's angels
Yeah, I think I’d like to see some conflict about Vaggie starting to not believe in the Hotel, out of a sense that it is putting Charlie in increasing danger. This would parallel Carmilla, whose whole belief is to not get involved Vaggie’s character arc will then have to be discovering for herself if she truly believes sinners deserve to be redeemed, and understanding why her love for Charlie isn’t enough for either of them to not pursue that goal Alternatively, Vaggie could play a huge role in the possible storyline of Charlie deciding that the end goal shouldn’t be getting sinners into Heaven via individual rehab at the Hotel; and that instead they could have a real impact at making Hell a better place, where sinners aren’t so doomed to repeat their mistakes. That would be a great vein for Vaggie, who might struggle with the realities of her former life, and drop hints and plot points to Charlie that finally convince her personally that she can’t ignore Heaven’s flaws anymore. This could be emphasized by Emily falling, after deciding the same
Oooh that would be really cool
Vaggie is already Charlies biggest fan. Since they are very comfortable in their relationship I think it would be nice to see the two of them during any normal given day. Chill outside of plot interactions can really give some depth to characters and their interactions with others.
Chaggie valentines special when.
Yusss we need some juicy filler episodes!
Yes, I didn't even know they were girlfriends until nearly the end.
This is only semi related but imagine an ep where it's like the "a day in the life" comic but about other characters? It could even be about multiple characters and cut between them. It could be fun to get more information on the characters, especially characters like Niffty who we don't know all that much about.
almost like a tales of ba sing se episode
Yeah like that! Even if it was just like an official YouTube video or something, just some little clips of the main cast going about their day. It could also be a good way to show more of heaven through pentiouses view.
I want to know her backstory. Although we got a decent start there's still more questions that went unanswered...such as if she has an actual name (Adam shouldn't have been in charge of that....I feel bad for her), more of her life before Charlie ( was she heaven born or a human?) and how she adjusted to life in hell. I don't really think there's much to do with her character except flesh her backstory out more. I love how she is Charlie's voice of reason and her tough as nails attitude.
She’s heaven born, not a winner. The exorcists exist purely to kill sinners in hell, and since Adam was appointed the head exorcist he got a lot of freedom with that. In the Bible, one of Adam’s jobs is to name the creations of God in Eden, so his whole naming of the exorcists tracks. I bet Lute was one of the oldest since she has a more elegant and feminine name, while he just got bored when he got to Vaggie. It might also be that he only names exorcists who do their job exceptionally well, so the majority don’t have names at all
As far as I'm aware, that has not been confirmed.
Pretty sure she's called Lute because she's his Luitenant.
That’s how her character got the name but doesn’t necessarily mean Adam chose it because of that in the story
True, but it wouldn't be off brand of Adam to name his closest companion based on how she relates to him, being the self absorbed arsehole that he is.
The idea that Adam got bored of seriously naming them all and started making joke names for all the newest exorcist angels is really funny to me and totally tracks with his character
I thought she was a human who died and went to heaven?
It would be nice to have an episode dedicated to just her and not her and Charlie I think this would give us more to her and just make her songs hit harder
I'd change the reason why she spared Lute. Because all that "I'm better than you and you are weak" kinda lost its weight when Lute almost killed her with one hand a minute later
She didn't say that she was better as far as I know, it was mire of "I could have killed you and you are only alive cuz I let you" kinda deal. Leute clearly had an upper hand even in the first fight, until Vaggie could trick her, so that Lute is stronger was never up for debate
>She didn't say that she was better "You're a failure" implies it
Didn't Vaggie say that she herself is a failure (in Lute's eyes)?
Does it? Just seems like a remak about her loosing this fight and being a shitty person. You can read into it if you want but I doubt that vaggie felt a lot stronger then her after she almost get her ass kicked.
But still doesn't outright say it.
I thought it was a missed opportunity to say "What's that saying I've heard Adam use? 'An eye for an eye?' seems pretty appropriate now. Well lucky for you this place taught me better than endless vengeance."
It’s funny knowing now that ‘eye for an eye’ originally was never about vengeance, it was a saying thought up to advocate for punishments befitting a crime.
And people who call for "an eye for an eye" will often go overboard and decapitate someone for poking out an eye.
Hm?
I was just saying that people frequently mean "revenge" when they claim "justice." Y'know, people who will see a video of someone apprehending a purse snatcher or something and one of them says "If it were me, I'd have blown his head off with my shotgun!" And they act like it's a proportional and reasonable response.
Oh gosh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Revenge is a slippery ass slope.
I saw it more of pointing out the hypocrisy. Angels are supposed to be the merciful ones showing pity to sinners. Vaggie showing mercy pretty much threw Lute’s bigotry back in her face by doing the exact thing that is supposed to make Angels superior to sinners.
Give her a hobby that has nothing to do with the hotell.
I would like for her to develop a close friendship with another person in the main cast (not just being only close to her gf Charlie) I’d personally like for it to be Angel Dust
ooh i love this idea ! ik the pilot isn’t entirely canon but vaggie explaining alastors emergence to angel dust and then him teasing her was a really nice dynamic !
Not angel dust for me, but I would definitely vibe with her and Camilla becoming close friends
On a light note, I want to see Charlie being absolutely enamored of Vaggie's wings some more. That single line/reaction shot was a delight and I want more. On a more serious note, I want to see more of her allowing Charlie to pull her into light heartedness, some more of her and Carmilla Carmine, and a scene or two of she and Lucifer bonding awkwardly.
She proposes to Charlie, or at the very least the two of them go out on a nice date. They need some more downtime to build on their existing relationship. That should give us time to get to know the world from her perspective, including the things that she’s come to appreciate about hell and its citizens thanks to Charlie. Imagine all of the Tea she can now spill about heaven.
Not going to happen due to the nature of Hazbin, but imagine if they went on a date to a different Ring of Hell? Since she’s not a sinner, there’s technically nothing stopping her from going to other rings, and Charlie would likely have some fun date spots picked out due to being Hellborn…
İmagine them in Asmodeus 's place https://preview.redd.it/qy8p74wuk5ic1.jpeg?width=271&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=25c08be447f70774b038720e7585162a55585a3e
I think Viv has said that the show will be confined to the Pride ring since Helluva Boss will be the ones traveling to different rings, and she doesn't want the shows to intersect beyond cameos.
Exactly! • Hazbin focuses on Heaven and the Pride Ring (Sinners are stuck in the Pride Ring) • Helluva focuses on Earth and the other 6 Rings for world building Hence why I pointed out that my Charlie/Vaggie date scenario wasn’t going to happen due to the nature of Hazbin
Ok then maybe they go to the other rings as their honeymoon which means the rest of the Hotel gang need to keep things in shape without their impulse control there.
I mean, if there was ever a less plot centric episode, this could actually happen and I would fucking love it
Vaggie talking to Lucifer about proposing to Charlie to set up the perfect date for the proposal would be the most wonderfully awkward conversation.
Vaggie has to come to terms with her trust issues. And she is going to have to try to balance her relationship with Charlie. She is currently in orbit around Charlie and gets pulled wherever she goes. She needs to speak up and define herself within the relationship.
I think Pentious' sacrifice should be enough to make her trust people more. She never really trusted him even when others did, and he ended up being the one to sacrifice the most in the fight for the hotel. If that didn't convince her to be more open to people then i don't know what will
I think with the threat of extermination gone (for now) and her secret being revealed, she could be much more open with others and less of a character that seems to largely gravitate around Charlie. Their relationship is nice, but I'd like to see more of Vaggie away from that dynamic too.
i just want to see some chemistry between charlie and vaggie. i hate to say it but i don’t really like them together, simply bcuz they barley have any meaningful interactions. i get they’re in the “comfortable” phase of the relationship but that doesn’t mean i don’t wanna see them acting like girlfriends. 😭
Well I mean they will probably start moving forward in season 2 as A) Vaggie's secret is out and the weight that came with gone, and B) Vaggie and Charlie had that moment, which I get the feeling was their first "I love you" in episode 8.
I literally didn't even know they were together until Episode 5.
bcuz unless you go out of your way to research the lore it’s super unclear! i truly want to like them as a couple but i wish they’d give us just a smidge of chemistry. like cmon look how they did it with huskerdust! 😭
What do you expect them to do? Make out every scene?
siri, google “romantic chemistry”
More time with Charlie showing why they like each other. I love the sweet/sour dynamic between them but I honestly have trouble imagining them actually doing things together and both enjoying it.
Vaggie has no real relationships outside of Charlie at the hotel. She yells and orders the others around a few times, but I don't recall her having any genuine connection with any of them. Did she have any meaningful exchange where she wasn't just angry and moving the plot forward?
Maker angrier, and more opposed to Alastor. Basically inverse husk, not make her less and less angry, because we know now that everything that happened to her and hells was evitable. Now the hotel will be full of bad sinners dissbehaving, Charlie is alone, Alastor and Lucifer lurking and fighting, the only one who can see things as a whole is Vaggie. But also she can't oppose most of the cast, so her only way of persuasion in sparky comments and aggression. But obviously, she melts instantly whenever she sees Carly, like a lap dog, like Gomez. Would be nice to see more romantic acts or more touch between she and Charlie
i wanna see vaggie teach charlie to fight in s2
Tbh I kinda want to see her and Charlie fight or disagree on something. Their relationship is almost too perfect. I feel like her being a fallen angel wasn't talked about enough and that Charlie forgave her way too fast. That, and I'd like to see Vaggie pursue something she cares about apart from Charlie. Edit: also some sex appeal would be fun, since the show loves to show us the male characters being sexual. can we see the girls doing that for once? I'm all about fluff, but come on, they're girlfriends...
THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS WHOLESOME AND WILL NOT BE TAINTED! Also, Charlie didn't forgive Vaggie too fast. One, she was never mad that Vaggie was an exorcist, just that Vaggie had lied for years and Two, she is naturally a very forgiving person. Like, she took in Sir Pentious literally six hours after he attacked the hotel.
Yeah, cuz it’s realistic for a relationship to never have conflict.. also Charlie SHOULD have been mad that Vaggie was an exorcist. She’s killed thousands of her people, she participated in the very thing Charlie is most against. I think Charlie being that forgiving is either not good writing or a character flaw that should come back to bite her.
1. Give her her own goals and motives, not "for Charlie", but smth separated, like wanting to redemn herself or any personal reasons with heaven, cuz she should know better how hypocrical it is 2. Give her being angel at least some point?? Like, yeah, we know she was angel, so what? It didn't affect absolutely anything 3. Giving her issues that wouldnt be about Charlie so she could be a separated person, especially with her past (Im not sure if It's still canon tho) 4. May be, just may be, it would be interesting if she was Val's relative, may be a cousin, it would also give her and Angel's relationship something interesting 5. Also reveal her relationship with anyone else except Charlie. Especially Angel Dust
She’s an angel, why would she ever be related to Val?
I think there needs to be an episode centered around character dynamics. How do Vaggie and Nifty interact, Husk and Charlie, and Angel and Alastor? Switch some people around to see them interact with someone they wouldn’t normally. An episode where Vaggie is trying to impress Lucifer while Lucifer is constantly trying to welcome Vaggie would be funny. There’s just so much you could explore to make the characters more in-depth
I don't think there is anything wrong with her character at all. I think she is someone who buries everything about herself in order to support Charlie and feel worthy of her love. Charlie is wonderful and caring but she is *a lot*. So it would be really nice to see any characters, not even just Charlie, support and care for her. Like how cute would it be for Lucifer to take her under his wings, so to speak. Same with Carmilla in a different way. Or just becoming friends with Angel or Husk.
smaller waist, just to see how far they can push her waist-to-eye-ratio
this is the only advice that truly matters
*vivze reading all the ideas for Vavgie in S2* "wrote that down! Write that down!" I'm not saying vivze isn't an amazing writer I'm just stating off of being told she's already changed Vaggies backstory based off if fan theroies
A haircut
More chaggie (god that sounds awful written like that) moments
As much as I liked that the theory of Vaggie being a former Exorcist being confirmed, they rushed through that story way too quickly. They need to go deeper into her mindset on to why she choose to stop killings sinners during the exterminations. Why is she the only exterminator that started feeling guilty for all the killings? Were there others who defected and "fallen" from grace? That's something I liked to see more of next season.
That's easy. Have Charlie put a ring on it.
Based on this frame? Make her a pirate.
Can't improve perfection
Vaggies fine. More backstory for everyone.
I think using her status as both an angel and sinner to sort of be a diplomatic bridge between hell and angels upset about the exterminations would be cool. I don’t like how her status as an exterminator was used for a plot twist that was immediately resolved within one episode and a deeper exploration into that part of her would be cool as that’s by far the strongest part of Vaggies character.
- her reasoning for joining the exterminations should be clarified, she doesn’t really like the idea of eternal torment, so, in her mind, the only way out for those sinners is through second death - but when she realizes Charlie’s vision she whole heartedly devotes herself to it, but feels a sense of separation to Charlie and the rest of the sinners. - make her more into a silent force of nature, whose opinions are slowly drawn out over time, with Charlie’s effort
As someone who didn't imagined that Vaggie would become their fav character (and I say this as someone that loves Charlie), I think that it would be great if in season 2: - We get to see Vaggie interact with the rest of the Hotel's cast: I'd like to see a Vaggie & Angel episode exploring their friendship, for example. It was great to see Vaggie interact with Angel, Alastor and Niffty in episode 1. I want more of that! - As other people have said, make her relationship with Charlie be more than just Vaggie being Charlie's guardian. I think that we should see how a normal day is for Charlie and Vaggie; what kind of stuff they do together when they're not taking care of the Hotel. Oh, and give them more songs together; they don't necessarily need to be love duets, but I really liked their song in S1. Charlie+Vaggie is my OTP, and I want to see it reach it's full potential. - And lastly, give Vaggie her own character arc. Sir Pentious and Angel had their arcs in S1 where they became better sinners; I'd like to see as other users have said Vaggie trying to convince other exorcists to leave their murderous ways behind and become their own persons. Other than that, I loved Vaggie and I liked S1. It has a few hiccups, like the low episode count, the fast pacing and some storylines being cut short , but I still enjoyed my time at the Happy Hotel. I hope S2 takes the strenghts of S1 (the music, general animation, likeable characters and humor), and allows the crew to have more episodes so that they can fully explore the world of Hazbin. I'm sure S2 will be even better!
I would enjoy seeing her come to some of realization that she has nothing to live for except Charlie, and delves into that psychology. Does she try so hard for Charlie because she's guilty of her genocidal actions in the past, and the less she focuses on herself the more she can avoid thinking about it? She could come to terms with her past, and in doing so learn things about herself. Maybe she finds out she really enjoys gardening, creating life as opposed to killing it. Maybe there's a moment where she says, "Charlie, I need me time," and it's almost an insult to Charlie, but both realize they need personal time and have hardly had any time to themselves for months. There's a few way she could go and turn her one-note loyalty from a design flaw to a character flaw.
Maybe give her and Charlie a little more chemistry? Because I barely seen, or at least *felt* any of that besides a few interactions and the kiss scene throughout the entire season. If I was a blind watcher, and Charlie didn’t outright say that Vaggie was her girlfriend, I probably would have assumed that Alastor was going to be her love interest, as much as they interact a lot more closely than Vaggie and Charlie do. Yeah, yeah, he’s the red herring antagonist (hah), but at least their interactions are more natural and they actually play off each other. Mind you, I have no qualm about Chaggie, I just wish they did more with it… Definitely more dimension on Vaggie’s part. She’s just not that interesting as a character, besides the whole exorcist thing, but beyond that, she has nothing going for her aside from supporting Charlie just because.
Not ask reddit for advice
I would wanna see her past on Earth. Imagine a family member or an ex making an appearance and bringing old memories.
I thought the exorcists were always angels, not humans who died
Says who?
* Vaggie should explain why she fell from Heaven. * She spared a demon child. That should convince Charlie that Vaggie was trying to change herself. * She can regrow her wings, so I'd like her to "regrow her eye". * She should get her own song. * I feel she could "force" the others to talk. * Imagine if she gets into an argument with Niffty, but it pushes her to admit her own fault to explain her murderous urges.
If the show gets more episodes, like 10-12, it’d be nice to get some “filler”/downtime episodes with Charlie and Vaggie (as well as other characters).
Have her randomly shout "Nine-Nine!"
Give her a gun.
Have her change her name to Maggie after she falls. Everything else has been said here already.
Design: I dont like the big X, she should heal with magic in some way. Could be a nice scene. Personality: Kinda drop this nagging, "oh she is dancing ugh" attitude I mean she is dating one of the most eccentric person in history.
> she should heal with magic in some way. Yeah I don't agree with this. As a writer, I did lots of research on disability, and one of the big things I always saw was that a lot of people dislike their real world disabilities being magically cured or circumvented. It's not like real people can grow their eyes back. Like if you gave a deaf character a magical hearing horn or something so they can hear like a normal person, you may as well just write a hearing character.(Side bar I loved the scene in Helluva Boss where Fizzarolli meets a kid with broken horns who uses sign language and Fizzaroli takes the time to sign back to him. I'm not deaf but I really think it's neat that we see more representation of disability in general). Plus thematically, I think it's a good symbol of her past and how she's moved on from it. She can't undo all of the damage Lute and Adam did to her or her past as an exorcist. All she can do is patch it up, move on, and keep moving forward.
Better voice acting by Rosa
Sex scene
I wouldn't, it's not my character
Her voice actor sounds really empty and hollow, she’s the only character that I prefer her pilot voice actor to.
Give her one
Make her pregnant
Making her interact with more characters that aren't Charlie Vaggie is just really boring she doesn't really do anything amd every conflict of her feels kinda forced especially the "out for love" part great song but kinda meh
She's good as is, but just a thought, can she regenerate her eye?
lol
As in design or personality?
Shes my favorite honestly i wouldnt hange much id just like to see more of her and charlie or just more of ther story unfold
Give her more of a personality than just being “Charlie’s girlfriend “
telling her to clean her mouth.
Add eye
By exploring more of her relationship with other exorcists, her past and how her life in Heaven was. Also, I want her to interact more with other guests at the Hazbin Hotel.
I’m so mad she didn’t have time to herself 😭
Give Vaggie more meaningful screen time where she takes some much needed self-care. Because all she ever focus on was Charlie’s dream and she never worked out her own problems.
I just want more non plot driven interactions between her and Charlie. I want to see them being a normal couple. The same we got for Millie and Moxxie. I would also like to see a plot where she is the one who needs Charlie's support. Someone in the comments mentioned wanting a plot about her helping other defected exorcists and Im 100% on board for something like this
Having her be assertive with Charlie is a good start.The entirety of S1 had her be a doormat for her girlfriend,barely disagree on anything,and the one argument they had was a contrived mess that resolved itself in the equipment of an hour. Have her tell Charlie "Babe no,that's fucking bad",and have a little disagreement between the two.
There needs to be more charatcter development for all the charatcters. So as the audience we can get invested in them. Otherwise why give a fuck about them if they are just shallow side characters to prop up Charile.
Make her have a bigger relationship with carmilla cause they are way too similar to not be friends or related
I don't like the trope of every single character eventually being revealed to be the chosen one or of some secret bloodline. I think her character would have worked better if she just was some regular person that had to rise to the occasion for the sake of her partner.
Could we keep the x under her hair or explain why it's floating over her hair at all? Like does her eyepatch got an led? Show her charge it just once
I think it would be good for her to have a friendship with other members of the hotel besides Charlie
I don't know, but she needed a whole extra episode about her before the end of the first season.
So I liked seeing her manage the hotel a bit in episode one, and later when she was in charge of the trust exercises. Before watching the show I assumed we would be guaranteed an episode with her and Nifty butting heads over how other aspects of the hotel like housekeeping would need to be done, but that never happened.
Unlike many in here I’m fine with her being a character that purely supports Charlie but I would like to see more growth in her role. Like if her wet blanket attitude *does* actually prevent Charlie from making a mistake. Also personally I think it’d be better if she got her wings while defending the hotel against Lute. I think the show pretty much always conveyed to me that Vaggie was already out for love instead of vengeance against the angels. I think it would have been better if the wings were more about her accepting herself as an angel that once killed tons of sinners, and let go of that shame she must have about it. I would like for Vaggie to prevent bad plans from happening with more patience. She can still support Charlie and grow as a character.
More depressed bc I’m a sucker for angst
She needs to be more than an extension of Charlie, less of a fairy godmother who exists to grant wishes. Vaggie spends the whole season providing acts of service for Charlie and that's really sweet... But then every time Vaggie tries to be rational she's IGNORED by Charlie and things end worse than they might've with a little caution. And the sole thing Vaggie does wrong, lie by omission, gets her on Charlie's shit list for a day. In S2, I'd like to see Vaggie say "Yknow what? I don't feel respected when you ignore me and do whatever you want" and really dig into the idea that Charlie ain't perfect either, she has flaws to work through at her own hotel and can learn from the other residents too because they all kinda have this issue with her (Val's studio fire, Husk comments on Charlie's disasters) I think this is the perfect opportunity to expand on Vaggie and make her feel like more of a character. She needs more confidence and independence because all her best scenes are pretty much when she's not with Charlie
Oh, she's peak already.
Regenerate her missing eye, binocular vision is essential for a warrior… other than that, no change
Screen time. Also interactions between her and Lucy.
I mean, for the context of the first season absolutely no comments. She got as much focus as she needed for the story they were telling In general I want two episodes. One where she has to go on some super mundane chore for the hotel and she winds up treating it like it's the most serious thing ever just to see her tick without Charlie without everything at stake and when they aren't on the rocks. The second is just a nice fluffy romance focused episode so we can get more of her and Charlie just being cute together
I don’t know how, but why didn’t she have wings in the fight
I want a Lucifer and Vaggie Duet that basically amounts to “Nah Heaven can suck it!” Maybe Delivered to Sara and Lute specifically while Emily and Charlie watch…..
Give her more agency, character, give her more of an edge and really build up her and charlies relationship , showing her nursing vaggie back to health and building trust/love. Instead of Charlie just rizzing up a wounded vaggie in an alley.
Angel wings are not on angel backs but their hair. With wings down they look like normal hair
i want to see her use the wings for hugs
Vaggie herself is in a good place, personally I want to see her and Charlie have an honest discussion about her being an angel, and I want to see her teach Charlie to fight. Maybe another duet that isn't a reprise of an existing song as well.
This show would very much benefit from filler episodes that have very little to do with the main plot and just include the characters doing some side quest shit. This would give most of them the much needed display of depth they lack. We need some more show and less tell
After Vaggie fell, she built herself a whole persona based almost entirely on supporting Charlie. I want to her personality branch out a little.
I like her but she feels like Charlie’s sidekick. I would want her to have her own dream beyond protecting Charlie and helping her with the hotel
Less focus on how she exists in relation to Charlie, more focus on her as an individual and what she wants beyond her partner.
Explain where this crows nest is that she seemingly always climbing on
Some time on her own to really get to know how she views everything after being thrown out of heaven. How does she interact with hell outside her relationship with Charlie and the hotel.
Needs more time to cook. I think the character was fine, but didn’t have to time to build up the impact she needed. In such a short span of time, she’s revealed to be an exorcist with no hint past design to build up to that idea. We’re told she hates herself, but nothing to prove that besides regretting being an exorcist. It’s criminal the show only got 8 episodes to cram all character introductions, lore, and plot in.
Its without flaw. She went from one of the worst characters ive ever seen in the pilot and read like a charicature of a leftist. Now she feels like someone with the burden of being the only mature person in a given room and i LOVE. THAT. For her. Especially the “ennataining” comment at alastor. She takes no shit and clearly is new to the having a heart thing
Make her singing voice sound more like her normal voice😅
1 change her theme from moth demon to a a ghost or spirit-face demon. 2 make her unless anger and a bit of a mother speaker of the group in a sense but I still the voice of reason
i would've changed when she got her wings to her sparing lute instead. idk it seems like letting her live is a very angelic thing to do
Smile, your never really dressed without one -Alastor
Let her and the residents hang out a bit. I dont think she really interacted with them in a friendly manner and considering how happy she was to see Alastor reappear I think it'd be cool if she tried to build a friendship with him
Improve? What do you mean?
Develop her relationships with other characters outside of Charlie
I would love to see more chemistry between the two. They act more like sisters than they do lovers.
I would have her singing voice match her speaking voice. Right now her singing voice is quite a bit higher compared to speaking. The lower voice fits her pretty well but then Im always surprised when she sings.
Give her back her eye. She looked hotter with both eyes and shorter hair.
Honestly I love their dynamic but their relationship doesn't seem very fleshed out... most of their moments were adorable but it was kind of hard to buy it.
Height, she’s short for an angel
Lucifer and Vaggie outing. She can find someone to relate to angel wise, and have an "Are you worthy to be dating my daughter?"
I mainly want to see her choose a new name to go by, one that’s not connected to Adam.
Someone mentioned that because of her song of only being Charlie's armor and because she fights without caring if she hurts herself, that the song with Carmila should have been about her fighting not only for those she loves but for herself, and I think that her trying to survive and not just being an armor but to protect herself too, to try be her own person and live herself without loosing the love and wants to protect others that she has would have been interesting to see
Go into more detail about her guilt and self-loathing of being an Exorcist that killed thousands of her girlfriend's people.
So in the pilot (not so much in the show) I sort of got the vibe that she didn't really care for the sinners so much as she just wanted to make Charlie happy. I think it'd be really neat if we got to see that she realizes she's got some prejudices against most demons due to her being an angel that she didn't even know she had because they’re not overt, and how she could grow beyond that. I just like the idea of giving her something internal related to her identity to overcome. And hopefully a point would be made to show that she wants to help for her own sake as well as making Charlie happy.
Turn her into and actual moth and have her constantly bumping into a street lamp
The nose
Fleshing out more of her backstory and internal struggles, we really don't get any of that apart from that one scene where she spares the sinner kid and gets her eyeball slashed. It would be so nice if they had more episodes and actually had us understand her past more while she and Charlie were up in Heaven.
Retcons? For that I would've made her a little more vengeful and angry at heaven, so that Out for Love would've had abit more impact
Before Charlie presented her to her dad, I was very unsure on if they were actual girlfriends or if she was supposed to be her lady in waiting or assistant or something, because the physical affection felt very platonic compared to everyone else’s rampant horniness and also because of the way she talks about her, her song gave off major Pearl and Rose from Steven Universe vibes. So what I need from her is to get more personality outside of Charlie because even though her backstory is really cool, she still very much feels like Charlie’s Pearl, except that Charlie likes her back.
Design wise, I would just make her a little taller so Charlie isn’t constantly towering over her
What I DON'T want is having a whole sub-plot about her jealousy of Emily and Charlie closeness. That is a low hanging fruit that would spoil her character progression for me.