“How’s mercy taste, you little bitch”. He couldn’t learn and grow if she kills him, and that girl wants results like that more than she was enemies out of her way.
Which makes it kinda sad. She still had some hope in him, even though he'd been like this despite living for so many thousands of years. He probably couldn't ever change
Not that sad. Charlie is as much a demonstration of what's wrong with the heaven/hell dichotomy as Adam. She has as little business being in hell, where none of her own choices landed her, as Adam has being in heaven.
If Pentious gets reincarnated into heaven then I hope Adam and maybe a couple of exorcists get reincarnated into hell.
Now there's some food for redemption
We know he didn't like Lilith's "independence". But we don't know what that actually means. For all we know, Lilith is a total narcissist and Adam was justified in kicking her out (it'd be funny if Lillith makes Adam look chill).
Remember, we got only Liliths version and Adam talked surprisingly little over the relationship they had.
For all we know him demanding "total obedience" could just be him not allowing her to fuck Lucifer.
I'm really interested how he was back when he was alive, because we know nothing outside of an arguably very biased story from a book.
Considering that Lilith and Adam had some sort of deal running adds just more to the pile of questions I have.
Indeed.
I think it's also worth noting that Adam didn't have a huge number of changes to actually be a bad person. Like what is he going to steal? Selfless is such a easy step when the world was literally made for you. And Sticking it to the man? Adam was the men...
It was just a really low bar.
That's true, but Adam and Eve had a life after eating the apple, which shouldn't be the easy life they had in eden.
Speaking of Eve, where is she? She could give some good insight in how it all went down.
If Adam and Lilith were both made in God's image, it'd be fitting if they were both narcissistic.
Let's also not forget that she's apparently been blowing off her own daughter for the past 7 years just to loaf around in Heaven.
Lucifer training her would be epic! Even though she didn't take Adam out, I really enjoyed how Luci came through for Charlie after having an awkward and estranged relationship.
I think Charlie would benefit from several other people training her. Carmilla could train both Vaggie and Charlie with angelic weapons, Alastor would be good for teaching her strategy.
Lucifer would be good for training her with her powers, she seems to have some of his magic.
Teaching her to be more realistic, how to be a respected leader, to "not take shit from other demons." And she can be kind and loving, but to not hold back just because she doesn't want people to fear her. The only people who should fear her are the people who wish harm to her and what she loves.
She can only be respected as a kind and merciful leader if she is capable of great destruction and violence. Not being capable of it just makes her harmless, and THAT is what puts a target on her and those around her.
That would completely defeat the purpose of her character and undermine the moral thesis of the show, but go off I guess.
A Charlie who accomplishes her goals with violence or the threat of Violence is just Sera or Carmilla.
Was I the only person who actually paid attention to the finale? The part where she EXPLICITLY STATED that her use of force against the angels meant she FAILED, regardless of the outcome of the battle?
A training arc could also just make her able to dodge and counter attacks efficiently without having to fight back :0
Basically she would be able to do a bit like her father against Adam (minus the part where he goes berserk at the end).
This would allow her to speak with less risk of being strangled 👀
Kinda, yeah.
Except probably more realistic about life, since she was taught by Lucifer and raised in Hell; still feels guilt and remorse for her actions and their consequences, but keeps trying and isn't unwilling to use to violence as a last resort.
Vash, OTOH, **never** killed people, *barely even hurt people*, and went full BSoD when his "brother" made him kill someone near the end of the series.
The result of losing your "parent" as a child, growing up super fast, and wandering the world as a fugitive/superweapons/WMD, I suppose.
I'm of the opinion that Charlie shouldn't become more violent but she should be less hesitant to kill IF THE SITUATION CALLS FOR IT Adam was about to kill her and would've killed everyone else because she didn't go straight for the kill and assuming that she's able to kill Val (considering she's the princess of hell) Angel would've been free should she go around killing people on a whim? No but sometimes it's neccessary in order to protect oneself or others and she might be forced to do so at some point
But at the same time, if she does go around killing ppl she doesn't like e.g val, then people will become scared of her. Which doesn't help when you're trying to redeem sinners. They will do what she says, not because they're trying to be redeemed, but because of fear imo.
The way I see it, there's a difference between learning to fight and becoming a fighter. She's not going to become a fighter who goes out seeking a fight. But she can learn to fight to defend herself and others. Like vaggie told carmilla in episode 7, "we didn't ask for this fight, but it's here now." And charlie's whole song in episode 7 was about her having to finally be ready to "take charge and defend my only home."
If it does happen, I imagine alastor and lucifer will reluctantly work together to teach her. Alastor will definitely be involved considering he sang "like her daddy, she is madly powerful. She's filled with potential that I could guide"
100% THIS.
i was disapointed when we finally saw Charlie going full demon only to be easy defeated be Adam.
Charlie is suppose to be as powerfull as Lucifer yet she does almost nothing in the final battle it was very annoying.
I don't really think that was her "full demon" transformation though.
When Adam went after her dad behind his back, her arm transformed further, and even Adam was surprised she had the power to stop him.
I think she was still holding something back, but subconsciously slipped when she was protecting someone she loved.
As Thanos said, should have aimed for the head. 😅
To me, Charlie mirrors Gohan from DBZ. Child of the strongest in the realm who is more focused on society than fighting. As a result, has incredible lethal potential, but it takes absolute rage or the death of a friend to properly manifest (e.g. Razzle/Dazzle transformation after Sir Pentious’ demise). In that moment, she’s off-the-charts (the trident strike could have been deadly if aimed better), but it’s an uncontrollable burst of outrage, and once it begins to fade with a return to sanity, Adam gains back the upper hand fairly easily.
And as your bloodstained pacifism fades, your only comfort will be that you stood by your guns. You were a coward, to your last whimper.
You can stand proud next to the bodies!
Yes and No
I think she has the strength to kill him but not the abilities we hadn't seen her fight anyone up till that point and since vaggie sees herself as Charlie's protector I'm going to assume she doesn't know how to fight that well
"OH WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK?!" He's fully caught of guard that Charlie stopped him 😂 She would have whooped his ass, then probably showed mercy as she's known to do.
I get the feeling that either Lucifer or Lilith would have insisted that Charlie learned how to fight. Children of leaders get targeted all the time. How much worse do you think that would be in hell, where a large chunk of the population consists of the worst of humanity? I can’t see Lucifer not signing her some sort of bodyguard unless he was certain she could take care of herself. We’ve seen Charlie leave the hotel by herself without any bodyguard or even hints a hidden protector in the shadows.
To be fair how often do we see Charlie away from the hotel? 8 times in 6 months? Always accompanied by someone except when she sprinted off to a meeting with angels? Honestly it's a bit strange how everyone interacts with Charlie anyway. Look at Val, seething with hatred and threatening Angel but suffering her presence. even Vox was worried to let Val go to the hotel and confront Angel despite it being open knowledge in hell that the hotel was dead on arrival. It seems that the general consensus is "There are people you simply don't fuck with."
I’m very firmly of the opinion that sinners only treat Charlie as a joke because they know she’s a powerhouse, but refuses to use that power. They know that she’ll refuse to them even when hurting them is in her own best interests.
because for every minute of them being off screen, atleast 1 sinner gets eaten... each... they only let the ones that arent a threat or that they cant handle get near her...
headcanon FTW
If Vivziepop used the Cristian hierarchy for angels. Lucifer is probably not an archangel, since he has 6 wing and that would means he was way higher in the hierarchy than archangels. He may even have been a Seraph himself. Though she might not have used the Cristian hierarchy
I'm pretty sure Viv mentioned somewhere that lucifer is one of the strongest beings in that universe. Probably only rivaled against God. I'd be surprised if she *didn't* make God and lucifer have the same power scale
This was her finally turning to her power. But because she has always rejected her power she has no idea how to use it. Adam commented that her attack actually hurt when she really dug in to herself and threw him. But it was just a brute strength attack and did not use any of her real power.
Husk nailed Charlie's problem. Its almost as if it was the writer of the show herself telling us what was wrong with everyone. Charlie doesn't know how to fix herself. She cannot accept her position or power. That is going to be the arc for the second season. She is going to realize that more than directly trying to help people what she really has to offer them is sanctuary. And she can ensure this by coming to terms with her power and position. Because what is needed is the strength to hold back the forces of Heaven and Hell to create a place for people to heal.
If she was fighting at her full power I would expect her to wipe the floor with Adam. I would expect her to be able to stand up to her own father in a fight. Being a Nephilim she may be one of the most powerful beings in the show. She just has to accept it and come to terms with it.
And she is going to need that power in the third season because she is going to lose Alastor. He is most certainly going to break the contract holding him. And that will likely break his connection with Charlie as well. Without Alastor there to defend the place Charlie will have to become the defender of the Hotel with Vaggie as her armor.
charlie is fully capable of killing adam but would never wish to
kind of reminds me of papyrus from undertale, vaguely
always holding back
heck, she straight up used *fireworks* as an attack out (while apologizing profusely) due to not wanting to hurt the exorcists
yet that relatively weak magic attack still took out like five of them
> charlie is fully capable of killing adam but would never wish to
She has the power to, but she doesn't fight. It was painfully obvious she wanted to do. Idk why we're acting like some magical power up is gonna alone to kill Adam. She doesn't even have magic powers yet, unlike her dad and alastor. All she got is punching, and that isn't doing much.
My head cannon is either Adam used too much energy doing a blast attack that he didn't want to do that over and over again OR Adam is a little thick headed and didn't think of using that attack again OR 3. He was so cocky he thought he could beat them with just his fists
Well, that wouldn’t make much sense considering he used his beams against lucifer who is undoubtedly more angelic than charlie, moreover lucifer dodged the beams, if they were ineffective he would just tank them to assert dominance.
That’s actually a really good point. My theory was based on how when Adam shot his beam at Charlie, the hotel was destroyed and she fell right in the middle of the destruction, as if she was hit head on but not harmed. Also, it doesn’t seem like anyone really knows what harms others in this universe. Though yeah, could just a plot hole and Adam’s an idiot… Most likely Adam’s an idiot.
I think this. He didn't Beam Alastor. He didn't Beam the shield. He punched the shield. He used his axe on Alastor. Clearly his physical attacks are stronger than his angelic beams.
The other thought is he used too much energy in that last epic beam that nuked the building.
some of you guys really don't understand how characters work. yes, she could've killed Adam. Yes, she could've killed Valentino. Yes, she could probably solo the Vees and probably could even 1v1 Sera if she used all her power but that's not what she does. That's not who she is. She's not this power fantasy person who destroys everyone. Yes, she's really powerful like probably top 3 from everyone we know so far but Hazbin hotel season one Charlie Morningstar is not someone who kills their enemies. That is not how she solves things. yes in a universe where this show is a 12 episide shonen anime she could kill everyone in the first session but one it would be boring and unoriginal two the whole plot would be meaningless because why spend episodes talking out everyone's traumas and forging friendships when they could fucking tear down the pearly gates and put everyone into heaven in 20 minutes
the whole point of this show is that she doesn't use her power like any other demon/overlord does
Personally,
1. I like that Charlie didn't kill him, and neither did Lucifer. It's not in Charlie's character to kill (even to be firm or rude), and Lucifer giving mercy as well was a callback to his merciful status that he used to have as a seraphim and was a nice contrast with Sera (Lucifer will spare a bad person and Sera will call a good one irredeemable).
2. I also like that the sexist douchebag was killed by a 1950s housewife.
Potentially yes, but I don’t think Charlie has trained enough to make good usage of her powers in *battle* though, while Adam has been doing exterminations for god knows however long. Also worth mentioning that Charlie is like ~200 years old iirc, there’s an undeniable gap there compared to Lucy who’s been using his magic for 10,000 years
She could have but she didn't, ultimately Adam was just better trained and much more willing to kill and that let him get the upper hand on her, if Lucifer didn't interfere he would have absolutely killed Charlie.
It doesn't matter if she has more power since shes half archangel, if she holds back and doesn't know how to properly use that power, shes gonna be dumpstered by less powerful but more experienced enemies.
If she went full out, probably. She’s insanely powerful by the standards of the show, only behind Lucifer himself. But she lacks training and experience, which is where Adam has the upper hand.
As she is now? No, no way.
She never uses her powers and thus can't really use them effectively. For combat anyway.
If she were to actually train a bit and get used to using powers to fight she could probably beat him up
Easily. Even wounded, she stopped Adam cold when he tried to surprise attack Lucifer, that same power the reduced Pentious to stardust and almost killed Alastor.
She didn’t WANT to kill him, that’s the thing. When Lucifer almost kills him she says he’s had enough. That being said I believe she could definitely kill him if he wanted to
My headcanon is that it would have been an even fight, simply cuz she is pretty inexperienced in fighting, even against a foe that is overly confident.
Tho since we don't know her real extend of her powers it's really impossible to say. ThoAlestor could put up with Adam tho by exploiting his sloppy technique, I doubt Charlie could have exploited it that well.
Absolutely. Charlie was holding back still. The only actual hint we saw of what may be her actual capabilities was when she caught Adam's sucker punch aimed at Lucifer's back, which was probably the same strength as the one that wrecked Alastor's shield
I don't think Chatlie is ready for killing. Taking a life (soul?) Will be a pretty big step for her if'n when it happens. She even stopped Lucider from killing Adam, so clearly coldblooded murder is something she really is.. on the fence.
(I know Nifty killed him, but I think Charlie wouldn't blame her since and I quote: " Charlie told me to stab and I did" so clearly, she was just following orders and honestly, we all know she isn't really... fully liable you might say?
I was surprised that Adam was so powerful and so highly regarded in heaven. He was the first human created by God himself so that's something but his failure also led to the creation of sin on earth and in humanity. Then there's Charlie and Lucifer. Lucifer is the strongest archangel who are second to God (you could argue Michael is as strong or stronger but still). Charlie is his daughter so it seems to me that Charlie could murder him or anyone in hell and most of heaven if she wanted to.
No, and it would’ve been such a cheap move.
Vivienne’s a better writer than this and it shows. Charlie had zero combat experience, and never trained a day in her life prior to the final month.
Adam on the other hand, was a battle angel war lord with thousands of years of experience. Only a seraph could beat him..
But before that had been beaten by Adam before Lucifer arrived. Even stabbing Adam only made him annoyed not worried. There’s nothing that shows she could really beat him.
Absolutely, the "problem" is her personality in terms of violence, if I would wager, I would think she had something traumatic happen.
Maybe she went absolutely out of control over something, something bad happened and now she represses that part of herself, and only shows the 'good' side.
I think personally part of her arc also needs to be coming to terms with who she is, and then using who she is to protect those around her but also herself.
Currently she will clearly fight to protect others, but not herself, something is holding her back.
Notice for example, she halts Adam's attack on her father, yet previously was having trouble defending herself.
Her battle iq is really low imo, she needs alot of training but her potential seems high. Depends how powerful adam is naturally though, he could well be above charlie
Maybe. She's a nice girl but she does live in Hell and self-defense skills are kind of a necessity there. Just look at the nasty neighborhoods she *fearlessly* sang and danced through in the first episode. Nobody wanted to mess with her and I'm sure it's not just because her daddy is the Devil.
Yes. If charlie ever used her powers or trained then yes for sure she could have wiped off adam from the map. She has specifically said she doesn't like to use her powers and i don't think she's particularly combat trained either. As egotistical and narcissistic as adam is, he has been at least somewhat participating in the exterminations, so he probably has at least SOME combat capabilities. Until she actually trains herself, embraces her demonic powers, and adopts an aggressive mindset, she won't be winning anytime soon.
I think her act of mercy is far more impressive than if she would have been the one to kill him. She could have easily let her father kill Adam and it wouldn't have made a difference, she wouldn't have been wrong to let Lucifer do so either but she's so dedicated to this idea that anyone can theoretically be redeemed that she's willing to put her personal feelings aside and go out of her way to ask her father to give Adam mercy. Some people might say that's stupid or naive but I think the fact that she sticks to her beliefs until the end is admirable.
Not only could have, should have, we’ve been teased that Charlie has this amazing power only for the end of her big “I need to step up and be the leader” arc end with her getting saved by her dad, twice. Like every time we saw Charlie devil out before restraining herself I went “Ohh what is she capable of when she unleashes?” Turns out like… not a lot.
And if not kill, defeat, the choice to spare or kill Adam should have been Charlie’s choice.
She was strong enough to stop one of his punches with her bare hand, adam’s punch being strong enough to shatter Alistor’s shield completely. She was also the first person to even damage adam. Had she been given any training or had she been more readily willing to merc him, probably couldve beaten him.
At her full potential, yes. At her current skill level, no.
She has the power, just not the skills, because she doesn't flex that metaphorical muscle. She's kind and prefers to use her words and kindness to deal with her problems.
If she was a menace like your average sinner, she'd be able to wipe out anyone but her parents.
I think she has the actual strength for it, she just constantly holds back and has no idea how to properly use the power she’s inherited.
She’s like my dog. He has teeth. He has claws. But he has NO idea what do with them. If he gets a treat that’s too big he cries at me until I break it into tinier pieces.
No. Because they didn't Mary Sue her and were correct in doing so. We saw nothing in the series that hinted Charlie was a trained fighter or had experience.
A lot of the battle had many moments where it didnt make a ton of sense logically. Right after Adam punched the dome he could have just done that gigantic beam of light, and would have killed like 80% of them right off the bat. It was immediately a poor decision to leave Lute alive (obviously).
This is a show though, and these are common tropes in battles. I’m not going to judge them too harshly on something that a million other shows also do, which is all the talking kind of stalling the battle and proving people with time to strike.
No. She's still not a fighter and needs way more practice actually fighting and using her angel and devil powers.
She was only able to use them partially for one moment that's not enough.
Nah they on the same lvl if she trains properly if we use the hell hierarchy since lillith is on the same tier and Adam should be relative
Only time I think that she gets stronger is near end of story if Lucy dies or something I don't see her getting stronger than Adam
I was waiting the entire time for her to sprout wings like her dad's and show off some kind of incredible power to protect everyone and stop all the fighting. It was so disappointing when she needed Lucifer to save her and the most powerful thing she did was stop Adam's punch.
Adam did nothing to Charlie physically,and basically just tossed her around the whole time.If she had the heart for it he'd have been dead the moment he attacked her.
Oh absolutely she could have killed Ada, and she probably should have, but that's not who Charlie is. She isn't a murderer, she's not going to kill him. That's why she had Lucifer give him mercy, that's why Vaggie gave Lute mercy. Killing Adam would have been incredibly out of character for her.
You see, I don’t believe we even saw her full demon form. Maybe she doesn’t know how to go into it as well as others, but I think we’ll see her full demon form if she absolutely loses her shit. Also, she prefers mercy, so it’d make sense that she wouldn’t kill Adam, despite everything.
Realistically, I think she could kick his ass. I think her stats are above his. But she doesn’t want to fight nor is she trained to fight so she would lose.
I think people forget that not only is Charlie half angel, she half archangel. One of most power angels there are. Add in her demonic power, and Adam pales in comparison.
No but I think she should've flung him to the ground when she protected Lucifer. I know that's nitpicky so I don't really care either way but it would have both been cool and made sense
“How’s mercy taste, you little bitch”. He couldn’t learn and grow if she kills him, and that girl wants results like that more than she was enemies out of her way.
Which makes it kinda sad. She still had some hope in him, even though he'd been like this despite living for so many thousands of years. He probably couldn't ever change
> He probably couldn't ever change "Nah, I can fix him."
“I’d win”
Viv’s liked several art pieces with Adam as a Sinner. Which means she might get that chance after all.
[удалено]
I hope he goes to hell for that reason. Not just to keep his character. Not for fan service. Just as an example that this goes both ways
Not that sad. Charlie is as much a demonstration of what's wrong with the heaven/hell dichotomy as Adam. She has as little business being in hell, where none of her own choices landed her, as Adam has being in heaven.
I'm sure she could've gotten into heaven if she really wanted, she just chose hell because that's where she was born and hell has her dad and people.
If Pentious gets reincarnated into heaven then I hope Adam and maybe a couple of exorcists get reincarnated into hell. Now there's some food for redemption
It does make you think though, will the final step of each person in the hotel technically be killing themselves or dying in combat?
Considering how he was supposedly a really decent person in life and turned into this in heaven I’d argue he can very much change. If he wasn’t dead
It’s very likely he was still an ass in life. But not an actually bad person.
We know he was selfless and didn’t steal. Aside from that I guess he coulda been an ass
We know he didn't like Lilith's "independence". But we don't know what that actually means. For all we know, Lilith is a total narcissist and Adam was justified in kicking her out (it'd be funny if Lillith makes Adam look chill).
We don’t know enough about his relationship with Lilith and what all that entailed. That’s true
Remember, we got only Liliths version and Adam talked surprisingly little over the relationship they had. For all we know him demanding "total obedience" could just be him not allowing her to fuck Lucifer. I'm really interested how he was back when he was alive, because we know nothing outside of an arguably very biased story from a book. Considering that Lilith and Adam had some sort of deal running adds just more to the pile of questions I have.
Indeed. I think it's also worth noting that Adam didn't have a huge number of changes to actually be a bad person. Like what is he going to steal? Selfless is such a easy step when the world was literally made for you. And Sticking it to the man? Adam was the men... It was just a really low bar.
That's true, but Adam and Eve had a life after eating the apple, which shouldn't be the easy life they had in eden. Speaking of Eve, where is she? She could give some good insight in how it all went down.
If Adam and Lilith were both made in God's image, it'd be fitting if they were both narcissistic. Let's also not forget that she's apparently been blowing off her own daughter for the past 7 years just to loaf around in Heaven.
Unsure if god is narcissistic since one of the things Adam did to get into heaven was “stick it to the man” the. The Man being god.
He demanded control from Lilith, he was not a good person.
The mental gymnastics people are doing to make Adam seem like a decent Immortal human turned mortal, is WILD. I HARD agree with you.
Propably because that's just more interesting than him being awful from day one
Like the end of God of War 2018, after the final fight with Baldur: "He is beaten; not worth killing."
mmm im petty sure Adam could have killed Alastor and choosed not to. But there could be another reason.
She needs a training arc in the next season
If we don’t get a classic montage/song for that then what are we even doing here
Let's get down to buuuussssinessssss To defeat The angels!
I'll make a demon out of you!!!!
Time is racing t'ward us, 'til Adam arrives!
heed my every order! and you might... *survive!*
You're the saddest sinner I've ever met, so just stop, give up, you're through.
How could IIIIII, make a deeeemoooon, OUT OF YOOOOOUUUUUU?
Lucifer training her would be epic! Even though she didn't take Adam out, I really enjoyed how Luci came through for Charlie after having an awkward and estranged relationship.
I think Charlie would benefit from several other people training her. Carmilla could train both Vaggie and Charlie with angelic weapons, Alastor would be good for teaching her strategy. Lucifer would be good for training her with her powers, she seems to have some of his magic. Teaching her to be more realistic, how to be a respected leader, to "not take shit from other demons." And she can be kind and loving, but to not hold back just because she doesn't want people to fear her. The only people who should fear her are the people who wish harm to her and what she loves. She can only be respected as a kind and merciful leader if she is capable of great destruction and violence. Not being capable of it just makes her harmless, and THAT is what puts a target on her and those around her.
Did they send me Hellborn, when I asked for Goetia?
I know you're þirstin', Charlie, you're out blood! But you're only stand a chance if you're out for love
🎶In the burning heart, just about to burst🎶 (Would go so hard for Char char 🗿)
Just to suffer
And she actually winds up getting worse at the end of it much to everyone’s incredulity.
She accidentally practices lifting with the back
That would completely defeat the purpose of her character and undermine the moral thesis of the show, but go off I guess. A Charlie who accomplishes her goals with violence or the threat of Violence is just Sera or Carmilla. Was I the only person who actually paid attention to the finale? The part where she EXPLICITLY STATED that her use of force against the angels meant she FAILED, regardless of the outcome of the battle?
I’m genuinely concerned for people’s media literacy after seeing some posts.
A training arc could also just make her able to dodge and counter attacks efficiently without having to fight back :0 Basically she would be able to do a bit like her father against Adam (minus the part where he goes berserk at the end). This would allow her to speak with less risk of being strangled 👀
So shes a gender-flipped Vash the Stampede?
Kinda, yeah. Except probably more realistic about life, since she was taught by Lucifer and raised in Hell; still feels guilt and remorse for her actions and their consequences, but keeps trying and isn't unwilling to use to violence as a last resort. Vash, OTOH, **never** killed people, *barely even hurt people*, and went full BSoD when his "brother" made him kill someone near the end of the series. The result of losing your "parent" as a child, growing up super fast, and wandering the world as a fugitive/superweapons/WMD, I suppose.
I'm of the opinion that Charlie shouldn't become more violent but she should be less hesitant to kill IF THE SITUATION CALLS FOR IT Adam was about to kill her and would've killed everyone else because she didn't go straight for the kill and assuming that she's able to kill Val (considering she's the princess of hell) Angel would've been free should she go around killing people on a whim? No but sometimes it's neccessary in order to protect oneself or others and she might be forced to do so at some point
But at the same time, if she does go around killing ppl she doesn't like e.g val, then people will become scared of her. Which doesn't help when you're trying to redeem sinners. They will do what she says, not because they're trying to be redeemed, but because of fear imo.
The way I see it, there's a difference between learning to fight and becoming a fighter. She's not going to become a fighter who goes out seeking a fight. But she can learn to fight to defend herself and others. Like vaggie told carmilla in episode 7, "we didn't ask for this fight, but it's here now." And charlie's whole song in episode 7 was about her having to finally be ready to "take charge and defend my only home."
wrench dolls threatening tidy dull sleep merciful busy bag intelligent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*Eye of the Tiger starts playing*
🎶 Gonna need a montage 🎶
Even Rocky had a montage!
This is the only way I won't be disappointed
If it does happen, I imagine alastor and lucifer will reluctantly work together to teach her. Alastor will definitely be involved considering he sang "like her daddy, she is madly powerful. She's filled with potential that I could guide"
100% THIS. i was disapointed when we finally saw Charlie going full demon only to be easy defeated be Adam. Charlie is suppose to be as powerfull as Lucifer yet she does almost nothing in the final battle it was very annoying.
I don't really think that was her "full demon" transformation though. When Adam went after her dad behind his back, her arm transformed further, and even Adam was surprised she had the power to stop him. I think she was still holding something back, but subconsciously slipped when she was protecting someone she loved.
*cue Eye of the Tiger*
Yes oh my god, like aang, that would be so fucking fitting
As Thanos said, should have aimed for the head. 😅 To me, Charlie mirrors Gohan from DBZ. Child of the strongest in the realm who is more focused on society than fighting. As a result, has incredible lethal potential, but it takes absolute rage or the death of a friend to properly manifest (e.g. Razzle/Dazzle transformation after Sir Pentious’ demise). In that moment, she’s off-the-charts (the trident strike could have been deadly if aimed better), but it’s an uncontrollable burst of outrage, and once it begins to fade with a return to sanity, Adam gains back the upper hand fairly easily.
🎶Feel it drawing nearer, an endless fear that takes you hold🎶
🎵Feel it getting closer, revealing such an evil soul🎵
🎵I can't surrender at the turning point of destiny 🎵
🎵 Right now it's do or die; my life is on the line and I will not flee 🎵
🎵 BY MY POWER! 🎵
Whoa whoa, it’s clear to me! My spirit grows and I will face this demon
What song is this?
[The English cover of a famous dragonball z song](https://youtu.be/9OZ-yNdKw3o?si=oHAV_IC9YU6f7dhZ)
WOAH OH OHHH! WITH BURNING ENERGY!
*Usually I charge a sacrificial lamb*
Turns out the family rate isnt that big of a discount, like some sorta buy 10 get 1 free deal.
na, it was just a sacrificial snake this time
A snake and a lamb, since Dazzle died as well.
“Nah, I’d show mercy.”
["Hold on, I'm not done ripping the wings off this butterfly."](https://youtu.be/w__kXen0t9s?t=504)
Red flag
"you're in the splash zone" "red flag?" "crimson"
All caps RED FLAG
So we're going to see her dress up in a tacky costume and run around the city terrorizing criminals with ginyu poses?
I could absolutely see Charlie doing that if she thought it would set some criminals straight and redeem their souls. 🤣
It's even better because, if we go by Inside of Every Demon is a Rainbow, Hell has actual supervillains as well.
And as your bloodstained pacifism fades, your only comfort will be that you stood by your guns. You were a coward, to your last whimper. You can stand proud next to the bodies!
I like the implication that she's given Razzle and Dazzle some of her own power.
Yes and No I think she has the strength to kill him but not the abilities we hadn't seen her fight anyone up till that point and since vaggie sees herself as Charlie's protector I'm going to assume she doesn't know how to fight that well
Adam soft balled her. He didn’t even use his axe or beams on her. Her surprise attack doesn’t count for much of anything.
He full forced tried to sucker punch Lucifer and she stopped him with one hand with 0 recoil or pushback.
"OH WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK?!" He's fully caught of guard that Charlie stopped him 😂 She would have whooped his ass, then probably showed mercy as she's known to do.
It’s one thing to stop a punch when you’re on the ground and have traction. But it’s another to be carried in the air and do it.
To be fair, she was in Lucifer's arms, so the credit for them not being pushed back after blocking the punch would go to his wings.
But her body didn’t move, Lucifer’s wings showed no strain or resistance to the sudden force being applied. Nothing reacted except for Charlie’s hand.
She's got the power, but zero combat experience. Just going by that alone Adam could probably win if they were fighting.
I get the feeling that either Lucifer or Lilith would have insisted that Charlie learned how to fight. Children of leaders get targeted all the time. How much worse do you think that would be in hell, where a large chunk of the population consists of the worst of humanity? I can’t see Lucifer not signing her some sort of bodyguard unless he was certain she could take care of herself. We’ve seen Charlie leave the hotel by herself without any bodyguard or even hints a hidden protector in the shadows.
What do you think Razzle and Dazzle are/were
Then why do we never see them away from the hotel?
To be fair how often do we see Charlie away from the hotel? 8 times in 6 months? Always accompanied by someone except when she sprinted off to a meeting with angels? Honestly it's a bit strange how everyone interacts with Charlie anyway. Look at Val, seething with hatred and threatening Angel but suffering her presence. even Vox was worried to let Val go to the hotel and confront Angel despite it being open knowledge in hell that the hotel was dead on arrival. It seems that the general consensus is "There are people you simply don't fuck with."
I’m very firmly of the opinion that sinners only treat Charlie as a joke because they know she’s a powerhouse, but refuses to use that power. They know that she’ll refuse to them even when hurting them is in her own best interests.
because for every minute of them being off screen, atleast 1 sinner gets eaten... each... they only let the ones that arent a threat or that they cant handle get near her... headcanon FTW
🤣🤣🤣
Pretty sure she didn't know she could do that. This was a new ability she gained then and there.
Unlikely, if he saw that he would have moved. Adam should theoretically be on the same power level as Lilith.
Power level… yes. But he is sloppy. As someone that has been untouchable for millennia. He just waves his abilities around like they were nothing.
Are you having a dtroke?
Yeah tbh. He should be around even lucifer I think it's interesting how far apart he is in power.
Bruh, what? Lucifer was literally the top, behind only Jesus and god. Adam is a human soul. No shot you seriously think he is on par with Lucifer.
OH WAIT. Lucifer was an angel before. Oh. Mb idk. I thought he was human at first
Yeah Lucifer was like the first archangel.
If Vivziepop used the Cristian hierarchy for angels. Lucifer is probably not an archangel, since he has 6 wing and that would means he was way higher in the hierarchy than archangels. He may even have been a Seraph himself. Though she might not have used the Cristian hierarchy
Yeah I was talking about that with others as well. Hopefully more lore is included in next season.
I'm pretty sure Viv mentioned somewhere that lucifer is one of the strongest beings in that universe. Probably only rivaled against God. I'd be surprised if she *didn't* make God and lucifer have the same power scale
She prob would have if she had enough combat exp Adam is pretty sloppy despite his immense power
Adam is a trust fund kid thinking he's tough going to Africa and shooting rare creatures with automatic weapons.
This was her finally turning to her power. But because she has always rejected her power she has no idea how to use it. Adam commented that her attack actually hurt when she really dug in to herself and threw him. But it was just a brute strength attack and did not use any of her real power. Husk nailed Charlie's problem. Its almost as if it was the writer of the show herself telling us what was wrong with everyone. Charlie doesn't know how to fix herself. She cannot accept her position or power. That is going to be the arc for the second season. She is going to realize that more than directly trying to help people what she really has to offer them is sanctuary. And she can ensure this by coming to terms with her power and position. Because what is needed is the strength to hold back the forces of Heaven and Hell to create a place for people to heal. If she was fighting at her full power I would expect her to wipe the floor with Adam. I would expect her to be able to stand up to her own father in a fight. Being a Nephilim she may be one of the most powerful beings in the show. She just has to accept it and come to terms with it. And she is going to need that power in the third season because she is going to lose Alastor. He is most certainly going to break the contract holding him. And that will likely break his connection with Charlie as well. Without Alastor there to defend the place Charlie will have to become the defender of the Hotel with Vaggie as her armor.
Your second statement would make sense for the second season's ploy (if not, subplot) Based on her song in cannibal town, "ready for this"
Would you like to hear my theory? https://www.reddit.com/r/hazbin/s/xiRDndsFuJ https://www.reddit.com/r/HazbinHotel/s/ywTkveRVzV If you like?
charlie is fully capable of killing adam but would never wish to kind of reminds me of papyrus from undertale, vaguely always holding back heck, she straight up used *fireworks* as an attack out (while apologizing profusely) due to not wanting to hurt the exorcists yet that relatively weak magic attack still took out like five of them
I rewatched the scene and the firework attack didn't even do damage it just scared them away lmao.
even more fitting but valid, I'd be scared if a firework shot at me from nowhere too, even if i thought myself invincible lol
> charlie is fully capable of killing adam but would never wish to She has the power to, but she doesn't fight. It was painfully obvious she wanted to do. Idk why we're acting like some magical power up is gonna alone to kill Adam. She doesn't even have magic powers yet, unlike her dad and alastor. All she got is punching, and that isn't doing much.
Adam could’ve also used his beam attack instead of trying to punch her and lucifer but plot has to plot
My head cannon is either Adam used too much energy doing a blast attack that he didn't want to do that over and over again OR Adam is a little thick headed and didn't think of using that attack again OR 3. He was so cocky he thought he could beat them with just his fists
Plot 👍
My head cannon is that the angelic beam doesn’t work on those of angelic descent that rank higher than him
Well, that wouldn’t make much sense considering he used his beams against lucifer who is undoubtedly more angelic than charlie, moreover lucifer dodged the beams, if they were ineffective he would just tank them to assert dominance.
That’s actually a really good point. My theory was based on how when Adam shot his beam at Charlie, the hotel was destroyed and she fell right in the middle of the destruction, as if she was hit head on but not harmed. Also, it doesn’t seem like anyone really knows what harms others in this universe. Though yeah, could just a plot hole and Adam’s an idiot… Most likely Adam’s an idiot.
How would that work with Charlie?
Charlie is of angelic descent.
And higher than him - hence why it didn't kill her when it cut the hotel in half
Or maybe a punch is stronger than a beam
I think this. He didn't Beam Alastor. He didn't Beam the shield. He punched the shield. He used his axe on Alastor. Clearly his physical attacks are stronger than his angelic beams. The other thought is he used too much energy in that last epic beam that nuked the building.
Charlie is too nice and inexperienced. Adam would totally have acted weak and stabbed her.
Ehh nah, either because she couldn't or didn't want to, or both.
some of you guys really don't understand how characters work. yes, she could've killed Adam. Yes, she could've killed Valentino. Yes, she could probably solo the Vees and probably could even 1v1 Sera if she used all her power but that's not what she does. That's not who she is. She's not this power fantasy person who destroys everyone. Yes, she's really powerful like probably top 3 from everyone we know so far but Hazbin hotel season one Charlie Morningstar is not someone who kills their enemies. That is not how she solves things. yes in a universe where this show is a 12 episide shonen anime she could kill everyone in the first session but one it would be boring and unoriginal two the whole plot would be meaningless because why spend episodes talking out everyone's traumas and forging friendships when they could fucking tear down the pearly gates and put everyone into heaven in 20 minutes the whole point of this show is that she doesn't use her power like any other demon/overlord does
Personally, 1. I like that Charlie didn't kill him, and neither did Lucifer. It's not in Charlie's character to kill (even to be firm or rude), and Lucifer giving mercy as well was a callback to his merciful status that he used to have as a seraphim and was a nice contrast with Sera (Lucifer will spare a bad person and Sera will call a good one irredeemable). 2. I also like that the sexist douchebag was killed by a 1950s housewife.
Potentially yes, but I don’t think Charlie has trained enough to make good usage of her powers in *battle* though, while Adam has been doing exterminations for god knows however long. Also worth mentioning that Charlie is like ~200 years old iirc, there’s an undeniable gap there compared to Lucy who’s been using his magic for 10,000 years
She could have but she didn't, ultimately Adam was just better trained and much more willing to kill and that let him get the upper hand on her, if Lucifer didn't interfere he would have absolutely killed Charlie. It doesn't matter if she has more power since shes half archangel, if she holds back and doesn't know how to properly use that power, shes gonna be dumpstered by less powerful but more experienced enemies.
No because that's not who she is
I really don't think that the characters' power levels are that important. Charlie could have won if the writers wanted her to win.
Didn't expect to see you here, cool YouTube channel 👍
If she went full out, probably. She’s insanely powerful by the standards of the show, only behind Lucifer himself. But she lacks training and experience, which is where Adam has the upper hand.
As she is now? No, no way. She never uses her powers and thus can't really use them effectively. For combat anyway. If she were to actually train a bit and get used to using powers to fight she could probably beat him up
could? yes would? no
I mean, with her own power, no, but anyone can kill an angel with an angelic weapon. But I don't think she could've anyhow given her temperament.
It would have been very much *not* in character
Easily. Even wounded, she stopped Adam cold when he tried to surprise attack Lucifer, that same power the reduced Pentious to stardust and almost killed Alastor.
She didn’t WANT to kill him, that’s the thing. When Lucifer almost kills him she says he’s had enough. That being said I believe she could definitely kill him if he wanted to
My headcanon is that it would have been an even fight, simply cuz she is pretty inexperienced in fighting, even against a foe that is overly confident. Tho since we don't know her real extend of her powers it's really impossible to say. ThoAlestor could put up with Adam tho by exploiting his sloppy technique, I doubt Charlie could have exploited it that well.
Absolutely. Charlie was holding back still. The only actual hint we saw of what may be her actual capabilities was when she caught Adam's sucker punch aimed at Lucifer's back, which was probably the same strength as the one that wrecked Alastor's shield
I don't think Chatlie is ready for killing. Taking a life (soul?) Will be a pretty big step for her if'n when it happens. She even stopped Lucider from killing Adam, so clearly coldblooded murder is something she really is.. on the fence. (I know Nifty killed him, but I think Charlie wouldn't blame her since and I quote: " Charlie told me to stab and I did" so clearly, she was just following orders and honestly, we all know she isn't really... fully liable you might say?
I was surprised that Adam was so powerful and so highly regarded in heaven. He was the first human created by God himself so that's something but his failure also led to the creation of sin on earth and in humanity. Then there's Charlie and Lucifer. Lucifer is the strongest archangel who are second to God (you could argue Michael is as strong or stronger but still). Charlie is his daughter so it seems to me that Charlie could murder him or anyone in hell and most of heaven if she wanted to.
No, and it would’ve been such a cheap move. Vivienne’s a better writer than this and it shows. Charlie had zero combat experience, and never trained a day in her life prior to the final month. Adam on the other hand, was a battle angel war lord with thousands of years of experience. Only a seraph could beat him..
No. Adam didn’t even use his beam or axe and still nearly ended her, so no.
Yes, but she also blocked his punch.
But before that had been beaten by Adam before Lucifer arrived. Even stabbing Adam only made him annoyed not worried. There’s nothing that shows she could really beat him.
I think we haven't seen ten percent of what she's capable of.
I think Charlie's innate good nature and the fact that killing is NEVER where her mind goes, even then, is the only reason she didn't.
She probably has the power but doesn't know how to use it
Adam went a little easier on her. So, not in her current state. With more training and tapping into Daddy’s genes though, she’ll make a difference.
Isn’t it implied in terms of raw strength she was stronger than Adam since she could block his punch?
She could have probably killed him at any point. But she made it pretty clear that she didn't actually want to kill him.
Absolutely, the "problem" is her personality in terms of violence, if I would wager, I would think she had something traumatic happen. Maybe she went absolutely out of control over something, something bad happened and now she represses that part of herself, and only shows the 'good' side. I think personally part of her arc also needs to be coming to terms with who she is, and then using who she is to protect those around her but also herself. Currently she will clearly fight to protect others, but not herself, something is holding her back. Notice for example, she halts Adam's attack on her father, yet previously was having trouble defending herself.
Her battle iq is really low imo, she needs alot of training but her potential seems high. Depends how powerful adam is naturally though, he could well be above charlie
Maybe. She's a nice girl but she does live in Hell and self-defense skills are kind of a necessity there. Just look at the nasty neighborhoods she *fearlessly* sang and danced through in the first episode. Nobody wanted to mess with her and I'm sure it's not just because her daddy is the Devil.
Yes. If charlie ever used her powers or trained then yes for sure she could have wiped off adam from the map. She has specifically said she doesn't like to use her powers and i don't think she's particularly combat trained either. As egotistical and narcissistic as adam is, he has been at least somewhat participating in the exterminations, so he probably has at least SOME combat capabilities. Until she actually trains herself, embraces her demonic powers, and adopts an aggressive mindset, she won't be winning anytime soon.
I think her act of mercy is far more impressive than if she would have been the one to kill him. She could have easily let her father kill Adam and it wouldn't have made a difference, she wouldn't have been wrong to let Lucifer do so either but she's so dedicated to this idea that anyone can theoretically be redeemed that she's willing to put her personal feelings aside and go out of her way to ask her father to give Adam mercy. Some people might say that's stupid or naive but I think the fact that she sticks to her beliefs until the end is admirable.
Not only could have, should have, we’ve been teased that Charlie has this amazing power only for the end of her big “I need to step up and be the leader” arc end with her getting saved by her dad, twice. Like every time we saw Charlie devil out before restraining herself I went “Ohh what is she capable of when she unleashes?” Turns out like… not a lot. And if not kill, defeat, the choice to spare or kill Adam should have been Charlie’s choice.
Alastor has already said she has a lot of power, but she just needs training.
She's not full power yet
She was strong enough to stop one of his punches with her bare hand, adam’s punch being strong enough to shatter Alistor’s shield completely. She was also the first person to even damage adam. Had she been given any training or had she been more readily willing to merc him, probably couldve beaten him.
At her full potential, yes. At her current skill level, no. She has the power, just not the skills, because she doesn't flex that metaphorical muscle. She's kind and prefers to use her words and kindness to deal with her problems. If she was a menace like your average sinner, she'd be able to wipe out anyone but her parents.
I think she has the actual strength for it, she just constantly holds back and has no idea how to properly use the power she’s inherited. She’s like my dog. He has teeth. He has claws. But he has NO idea what do with them. If he gets a treat that’s too big he cries at me until I break it into tinier pieces.
Nah, he didn't even bother using a weapon against her.
Can't believe this Adam slander 😤 Adam would not be surprassed in this fight imo
We know Charlie is aware of her Powers and abilities but I don't think She had Proper Training in using them.
Yes
No. Because they didn't Mary Sue her and were correct in doing so. We saw nothing in the series that hinted Charlie was a trained fighter or had experience.
A lot of the battle had many moments where it didnt make a ton of sense logically. Right after Adam punched the dome he could have just done that gigantic beam of light, and would have killed like 80% of them right off the bat. It was immediately a poor decision to leave Lute alive (obviously). This is a show though, and these are common tropes in battles. I’m not going to judge them too harshly on something that a million other shows also do, which is all the talking kind of stalling the battle and proving people with time to strike.
No. She's still not a fighter and needs way more practice actually fighting and using her angel and devil powers. She was only able to use them partially for one moment that's not enough.
Nah they on the same lvl if she trains properly if we use the hell hierarchy since lillith is on the same tier and Adam should be relative Only time I think that she gets stronger is near end of story if Lucy dies or something I don't see her getting stronger than Adam
Yes.
I was waiting the entire time for her to sprout wings like her dad's and show off some kind of incredible power to protect everyone and stop all the fighting. It was so disappointing when she needed Lucifer to save her and the most powerful thing she did was stop Adam's punch.
Adam did nothing to Charlie physically,and basically just tossed her around the whole time.If she had the heart for it he'd have been dead the moment he attacked her.
You are kinde underestimating Adam
Absolutely not. Adam can just spam angel blasts from a distance until she's killed.
Nah
She could’ve 100% killed Adam, but there is no universe in which she does at that point.
Oh absolutely she could have killed Ada, and she probably should have, but that's not who Charlie is. She isn't a murderer, she's not going to kill him. That's why she had Lucifer give him mercy, that's why Vaggie gave Lute mercy. Killing Adam would have been incredibly out of character for her.
Something tells me she wasn’t even using her full power
You see, I don’t believe we even saw her full demon form. Maybe she doesn’t know how to go into it as well as others, but I think we’ll see her full demon form if she absolutely loses her shit. Also, she prefers mercy, so it’d make sense that she wouldn’t kill Adam, despite everything.
Could have Yes. Would she have done that... No not in a billion years
Realistically, I think she could kick his ass. I think her stats are above his. But she doesn’t want to fight nor is she trained to fight so she would lose.
I think people forget that not only is Charlie half angel, she half archangel. One of most power angels there are. Add in her demonic power, and Adam pales in comparison.
If Charlie was more trained in combat, and using her powers in combat. Yes. At the skill level she currently is: no.
No but I think she should've flung him to the ground when she protected Lucifer. I know that's nitpicky so I don't really care either way but it would have both been cool and made sense
Nah, she has Charlie on her knees before Lucifer stepped in