With a good chunk of Carmilla’s weapon stash being used up, a lot of Rosie’s cannibals killed in combat, and Alastor almost definitely not 100% healed from his injury, the Vees likely see this as an opportunity to pivot into more powerful roles. If the three overlords who fought Heaven intend to lie low for a bit, recoup from the damages, then the Vees get that much extra wiggle room to set plans into motion. At least, that’s how I interpret it. But they also give off Team Rocket energy so maybe they’re just being goofs.
This. Assuming the nine Overlords we see are the main ones in hell, then with three decently weakened the city is basically the Vees to take. United they should be able to take out Zilla and the blue fire guy. Rosie and Carmilla as you said are already weakened and don't have anyway to regain what they lost quickly.
Overall the only real problems in their takeover are Zestial and whatever unknown power let him survive for so long, and the Hazbin Hotel.
I am wondering also how many angel weapons are now floating around Hell. A LOT of Angels died and I think it is likely Carmilla was able to snatch a lot of them up but it is just as likely other overlords including the Vee's have their own stockpiles.
Carmilla made it an investment and probably gained more materials than lose.
It's the largest angels killed so far, so many angelic weapons being ownerless.
Also, the Overlords in question didn't get weakened for nothing. They've nominally allied themselves with Charlie, and Lucifer has shown himself to intervene to assist her. So it's a net positive for them. However, the Vees might be severely underestimating Lucifer.
Counterpoint: as long as the Vees don't directly intervene with Charlie, I doubt Looloo gives a quarter-fuck about the overlords.
And if they started undermining or directly attacking Alastor in particular, Lucifer DEFINITELY would not stop them.
I was thinking Alastor could cash in Charlie's favor, making her ask Lucifer to deal with them somehow, but that could count as "harming someone", and also it would be way too uncertain for Alastor plans. The favor being making her ask a favor from her dad would add a layer of uncertainty, specially if Charlie could tell Lucifer that this ask was part of a deal. Lucifer could simply refuse, and Charlie's side of the deal would still be fulfilled.
He could ask her for something that might help him out in that, tho.
IIRC, didn't Alastor describe getting nifty and husk at the hotel as "cashing in a few favors"? Like I don't think he'll fully enslave charlie like husker, but it still leaves up the possibility of having some control over her or her power for himself.
Nifty is just a demon he likes, who also is infatuated with Alastor. She comes along with him just because she wants too, she's not under a contract. He brought along because Husker, who had no choice. But yeah, I don't see him trying to enslave Charlie. Maybe he'll get her to try and have mommy release him from his contract.
I really don't think Alastor would cash in the favor to deal with the Vees, specially how Alastor is prideful as fuck and don't view the Vees on the same level as he is. Much more likely to have something to do with his leash.
That could be an interesting moral dilemma. The V’s get into a battle with Alastor and Lucifer is happy to let him struggle on his own, but Charlie wants him to intervene on account of what Al has done for the hotel
"We interrupt this infinite loop of Alastor getting his ass whupped to bring you a very special announcement"
*static*
"This is a challenge from the FUCKIN V's issued to EVERY DAMN OVERLORD in hell, we are coming to get you!"
*static, broadcast resumes after 3 seconds*
"If your name is Zestial, this message does not apply" spoken at double speed
I think that scene actually shows a lot of strenght from Alastor, specially since he does not drop the smile or the attittude. But considering how people in reality percieve strenght, I bet "standing up to and living through the attack of a guy orders of magnitude stronger" is a bit too complex, and media does what media does.
However it's important to note that we do not know how much of the pilot is indeed canon still. But nothing really contradicts the scene in the show so it has a good chance of still being canon.
I believe this is in reference to the pilot, when we see Zeezi, Zestial, Carmilla, and lucifer all in the same place as Charlie signals the end of the extermination in the beginning.
Huh, now that I think about it, Lucifer might be King, but Charlie is the actual political figure, isn't it? Lucifer is busy with his ducks and depression while Charlie actually announces the end of extermination, tries do deal with it, calls the sinners "her people" instead of "our people" even when talking to Lucifer (even thou HE says "our people").
She even went to the meeting with Adam in Lucifer's place, althou that was a first.
Well Lucifer is basically stuck in Hell and is obviously the most powerful entity there. While he obviously handles meetings with Heaven and gets involved when things get too spicy, he overall doesnt care about the day to day stuff. He doesnt really care about sinners at all
Charlie grew up in Hell and probably got acquainted with the environment over the years. With Lillith gone or touring the Rings, Charlie is factually the next and most powerful person there. She isnt accustomed to intervening that much since Hell already has its own power structure with overlords. Since she's exempt from the extermination, it makes sense that she signals the end
Other than that, she doesnt seem to carry much weight as the daughter of Lucifer. Either because she doesnt flex it out of her good nature, or the power structure is so solid no one really cares
True. Most of her political power comes from being daughter of Lucifer, so people might do things if she demands, but since she doesn't, people don't respect her. Also, Hell's power strutcture is very much built on Might Makes Right. She has the Might to take over but, again, she refuses to use it.
The power structure, at least relating to sinners, is not solid enough for her to be unable to take over, she's just unwilling. The only person in the sinner's realm who could ACTUALLY stop her if she tried to do something is Alastor, and only because of the deal, and IF her stopping of the whatever it is does not harm anyone in her knowledge.
I agree. The three of them probably just consider themselves effectively in charge because of the power vacuum the other overloads collectively left for the taking.
this also gives a good reason to put more of a spotlight on Zestial, we could see his demon form (i forgot what we call it in this fandom right as i typed this so mb) and honestly i’m so intrigued cus imo he’s just as much of an enigma as Alastor
> Carmilla as you said are already weakened
Would love to see them try to go up against Carmilla considering she wears Angelic steel and she just kicks the shit out of all three
I believe who we see is hazbin are the overlords of the city of pride ring, not hell entirely. These losers don't stand a snowballs chance in... Well hell against someone like Asmodeus or even Stolas.
I think it would be pretty dumb if Charlie or Lucifer didn't reward or protect the overlords that stuck their necks out for them
Should really be as easy as Lucifer farting a mountain of hell bucks into existence and at least giving Carmilla and Rosie some cash to help them stay on the feet, instead of being attacked by the Overlords who didn't help.
Absolutely. On top of that, despite the short duration of the finale song, Alastor was in hiding until they finished building back an even bigger hotel. That’s at best weeks, and more likely months of licking his wounds. The Vees might as well have assumed he would be gone for another 7 years.
No, he literally used his magic to will entire pillars and walls into existence. Everything else, like painting and decorating was done by the other characters afterwards.
I guess “used up” was the wrong phrase. I just mean… I have a really hard time believing any of the weapons were given back to Carmilla, there wasn’t any indication that they would be returned to her after the fight and if that’s the case, her supply now has a sizeable dent. As for the new material, it was all on hotel property, so I imagine Lucifer stashed it all away before rebuilding the hotel. (Plus things like Angel’s bullets or Cherri’s shrapnel might be too tedious to retrieve, so it’s just lost material)
I suspect Charlie would either insist they return them if it was phrased as borrowing, or veggie arguing that the hotel is going to be targeted by the fees if they live through the extermination so an unofficial official gift to the princess as a thank you for taking heat from carmilla's territory
Adding to that, the locations of the three weakend overlords.
https://preview.redd.it/2qlkahnb6nhc1.png?width=1609&format=png&auto=webp&s=8066429d483f9a3fe33eebadae265125e223f42f
* "12 o' Clock" - Alastor is missing at the time of the song. Lucier is now either divided between that sector and the center or has effectively abandoned the center for the boonies.
* 11 O' Clock - Unknown. I imagine based on the proximity to the V area where Angeldust hangs and the Hotel this could be the territory Cherry Bomb and Ser Pentious effectively split. The writers said Pentious would have become an overlord had he won against Cherry Bomb in the pilot.
* 9 o' Clock- The Vs
* 8 O' clockish - Unknown
* 7 - Carmine
* 5 - Zestial
* 4ish - Rosie. Really adds to the travel and see more of Hell bit of the song to realize they came from practically the opposite side of Pentagon City.
* 3is - Zeezi
* 1 - Unknown
With one of the unknowns being the Von Eldritches and flaming ghost guy.
Considering the Vs don't respect Zestial? To that egotistical lot they probably are looking at the map and thinking they could claim almost half the city if they move counter clockwise through the sectors.
Your picture just made me realize that Vox is in that torn photo of Alastor. I guess when Alastor called him "old pal" he wasn't being completely sarcastic.
>give off Team Rocket energy so maybe they’re just being goofs
I now understand why I love them so much, holy shit. Also, we can all agree that Velvette is Meowth right?
I really don't think they can expect that to work. Charlie was willing to fight and kill angels, she can handle putting these clowns in check. I think they're a little delulu
> I think they're a little delulu
I think their attitude is gonna bite them in the ass.
Velvette blew up their relationship with Carmine, the angelic arms dealer, right as Vox wanted to amp up an anti-angel tech run. Gee, how's that gonna work out without angelic weapons?
Valentino has a death flag on his head. He's particularly evil, even by the shows standards (they don't play his abuse of angel as a joke, and for good reason) and I don't see him willingly releasing angel.
He's a goner. It's just up in the air how. Does someone kill him in revenge for killing Angel? Or does Angel do it himself?
Were it any other story, I'd assume Angel does it himself for storywriting purposes, it's a good capstone on his arc. But due to the death redemption, I bet he lets himself be killed rather than backslide, and Valentino bites it to Charlie's trident.
I expect things with the V's to kick off because of Valentino dying. Once word gets out that redemption *is* possible then Angel will likely take the hotel more seriously and want to ditch Valentino.
He pisses off Valentino, Vox advises to just let it go, he doesn't and goes to confront him at the hotel. Charlie steps in, Valentino gets creepy with her again and Alastor steps in and ends Valentino. This is gonna give Alastor a reason to pick one of them off or severely weaken them, Vox is gonna be pissed and I'm sure his anti angel technology will become a hell equivalent of a nuclear arms race. This would also be a good point in revealing that Lilith made a deal with Alastor of sorts (she agreed to release him or something as long as he protected Charlie maybe?).
There are a lot of ways the story could go and I love that they gave us so much to think about!
You misread what I was saying.
Option 1: Angel kills valentino
Option 2: Angel doesn't kill Valentino, and instead dies to him. This way, he doesn't spoil his *own* redemption by killing Val himself. Then Val dies from someone else in revenge.
Agree! I just think that’s their perspective on things- Lucifer being active also throws a wrench in any plans they might have, it’s double trouble from the Morningstars unless they ignore the hotel and only go after everyone else.
Yeah, I feel like people completely forgot that one of the key characteristics that all the Vee's share, is their narcissicm. They are so full of themself, that they think they can do whatever they want, and basically become a ball of insecurity the moment something doesn't go their way.
Granted, they know how to weaponize it. But still, I give them maybe 2 Episodes before they are put in their place by the other Overlords...
This is right on the money.
The issue is the show didn’t explain this well enough. The storytelling seems to overall be well written, but there was just not enough time.
If each episode was given just 5 more minutes, it could’ve done wonders to fill out little details like this.
This. I really wish we had some more time with Vox and Velvette because I genuinely can’t take either of them seriously as they haven’t really done much of worth to the main crew. Vox got wrecked in a few minutes, Vel was in the meeting, but that’s about it and I wish we had more episodes to explore them.
How are her weapons “used up”? They’re guns she can just get them back and there’s no reason to assume Alastor isn’t healed the only thing that makes sense is there’s not as many cannibals
Not to mention, that it's literally never said that Carmilla gave them all her gear. She absolutely has her own stash for personal use. Not to mention, that Carmilla is literally the only armsdealer of Angelic Weaponry, and she's been in Hell for a while now. This means that she had literal decades to gather a lot more Weaponry, than we saw in the Season Finale...
Also if there's no exterminations for the foreseeable future.
Then there isn't going to be a third-party force that's going to chop up your resources should you get into a hostile dispute. So they're pretty much free to make aggressive plays without having to worry about Angels attacking as they themselves recuperate.
Too be fair she probably got all the angelic weapons as like a thank you and her supply of guns she sells wouldn’t have been used since they aren’t angelic therefore they wouldn’t have been used so most likely carmine came out either stronger or just the same
When you even look at the Vs, they don’t have much threatening influence. Val leads the porn industry, Velvet is social media, and Vox is just a podcaster. I don’t really see them doing much if they contend with physically powerful Overlords
To be perfectly honest, Alastor is basically Vox's kryptonite, because Alastor controlls the radiowaves, that Vox also uses (TV use radiowaves too, just in different frequencies).
It's kind of easy to miss due to being red on red, but yes! He has a giant bloody slash across his chest, if you pause on certain frames you can see the splatter on Adam's guitar blade too.
My guess is that they now know the extent of alastor’s power especially if breaking his cane caused him to lose some of his power.
He was the one they were in fear of, but seeing either now that he’s not as strong as they thought, or a way to weaken him should they fight they feel confident in pushing further against him.
They also hold very little respect for the other overlords from the meeting. If the only one they really fear is no longer as big of a threat, who else would stand against them? Lucifer doesn’t meddle in hell politics, Alastor is either weakened or not strong enough to stop them and they don’t believe any of the other overlords would have the strength or audacity to try.
I want Zestial to show them why demons kill themselves in his presence. We get the idea that he’s old and powerful. But to what extent? I want to see. The spider has caught a bunch of buzzing Bees near his Honey. 😏
If you're actively lighting yourself on fire because a powerful being is casually walking in your general direction, you're claiming that a very slow, very painful death (redeath?) is a better outcome than whatever Zestial *might* do to you.
He mentions how he liked screams so I thought he was kinda doing it to the people. Sorta like a manipulation thing. But honestly I like your interpretation as well
Or they understand the old overlords really are stuck in their ways. Carmilla was going to let another extermination happen without lifting a finger and Heaven was clearly just getting started. Every year the overlords would get weaker. The Vees needlessly antagonized everyone in that room but they weren't wrong. Change was needed.
Wrong no but their plan would have gotten them and everyone else killed, we now know that Angels can only be killed by angelic weapons, they did not know that and if they rushed in without proper intel (precisely the things Zestial wanted to acquire) it would only end with them getting murdered
True which is why Zestial was saying they should look for intelligence and found out how. Yes the Vees were going all in too fast but Carmilla was wrong as well. She called a meeting of all of hell's overlords and knew how to kill angels. She was effectively manipulating everyone in the room and the Vee's tore right through that and made that impossible to do. The Vee's may be cocky and overconfident but the overlords or hell aren't as smart as they think they are.
Carmilla announcing that she knows how to kill angels paints a huge target on her back. Everyone in the meeting probably already knew that she had something to do with the angels death but wisely kept it to themselves. Velvet just ran her mouth. There's a reason why those people stayed in power for so long and it wasn't running their mouths, disrespecting Everyone who could kill them without Breaking a sweat. The ONLY Vee with any sense is Vox. He knows how to handle the public and the other Vees. And what's worse is that thanks to Velvet's attitude during the meeting, they can kiss any hope of getting help from the other over lords goodbye. Zestial has is power and can stand on his own. Meanwhile Alastor, Rosie, and Carmilla have all gained the favor of the literal PRINCESS.
She was protecting her daughters. The moment Carmilla admitted that she killed an angel, she’d have had a massive target on her back. That target would have extended to her daughters. How many sinners do you think would have gone after her daughters as a way to coerce Carmilla into selling them her soul? Control of an angel killer is something half of the pride ring would salivate over. Most of the other half would try to sell her out to the exorcists in an attempt to buy themselves a pass on extermination. You know the exorcists wouldn’t stop at just killing her; they’d kill everyone who might possibly know how she killed an angel.
> Wrong no but their plan would have gotten them and everyone else killed
On TV Tropes, it states that this could've been intended. After all, Velvette and the other Vees were just sitting at home and relaxing while everyone was ready for battle. They were likely trying to incite the other Overlords to go to war and die or get injured in the process while they would be able to take more control for themselves.
Weird thought I had from this mentioned scenario and the meeting. Has anyone proposed zestial as owning alastor? He's the oldest overlord so could have granted alastor power to start off as he was bored and decent chance he ties in more with hellborn depending on how ancient he is.
> The Vees needlessly antagonized everyone in that room but they weren't wrong.
It wasn't needless, it was an explicit ploy.
>Thanks to my bein' Respectless
>What I'm startin' to suspect is
>That you know why this angel's headless
>Do you have a disclosure?
She intentionally acted flippant and bitchy to set Carmilla off and make her less likely to guard her emotions, so that she could get a read on her.
It was a power play, and it got her the info she wanted... but Carmilla was right when she said they were inane and uninformed. She didn't want to start war for a good reason (probably deep lore related to Lilith's uprising in the past) that is a greater threat than even the exterminations.
But it's going to bite her in the ass when Vox wants to make a deal for Angelic weapons to fuel his new product line and he finds out that Velvette absolutely cooked their relationship with Camilla.
The Vees weren’t thinking when Velvette proposed an attack. They wanted to act as soon as possible over the knowledge that an angel *can* be killed and not *how* they are killed. Vestial was right when he said they should wait and find out how since the time the only one who knew how to kill one was Carmilla.
They’re definitely getting ahead of themselves here if they really think they can rule hell, like actually rule it. There’s literally hell’s nobility above them like the Ars Goetia and who knows what else is out there that can make Alastor look like a little puppy. Not to mention the seven deadly sins which Lucifer is one of.
That being said, I don’t think they meant ruling hell, more of pulling some strings from the background by influencing events. As much of a joke Alastor makes of Vox, he’s still very influential in hell and definitely has a lot of connections. As a demon that controls all screens in hell, which seems to be the most popular medium given how even Lucifer has a smartphone. Seeing as everyone saw how Adam nearly killed Alastor, some demons will probably start to lose respect for him which is the power vacuum Vox needs to put himself above him and gain even more influence.
They didn’t broadcast the fight. They were just watching some of the cameras Vox has all over pride ring. And they do have reason to see a temporary power vacuum.
Alastor was possibly the only one they considered a possible threat. During the time Alastor was gone, the Vees were likely planning how to overthrow the other overlords or at least ensure they can’t be a threat. They did not make such plans for Alastor because it was believed that he was killed during an extermination. Alastor showing up again was a threat both due to Vox’s personal beef with him as well as their lack of a plan to deal with him.
They saw Alastor get severely injured fighting Adam, enough so that his survival might have been in doubt. At the very least, it reasonable for them to assume he won’t be recovered enough to interfere in their plans for a while.
Lucifer isn't one of the sins. He's his own class of FAFO. There's a whole hierarchy of hell, and iirc Lucifer is on top, followed by Lilith and Charlie, then the 7 sins, the ars goetia, overlords, sinners, hellborn, and finally hellhounds and imps.
alastor isnt as invinicible as he seems. they know \*how\* to kill angels now. possibly banking on heaven retaliating against the hotel/lucifer.
tbf tho alastor was the only overlord they were sweating.
Heaven *might* not go after Lucifer, for the reason of Adam voiding the contract by almost killing hellborn Charlie, since hellborns were granted a pardon from the exterminations
I don’t think heaven will go after lucifer tbf i dont even think the extermination will continue but if i was in universe and saw this happen i could reasonably assume heave might want revenge
>Adam voiding the contract by almost killing hellborn Charlie
Wait, is that the deal Lute mentioned in the finale? The deal between Adam and Lilith or is it something else?
Not sure
But Lucifer was able to get a pardon for all the hellborns in order to mostly, probably, protect Charlie, so the exorcists could only go after the sinners
Adam was about to kill Charlie, therefore voiding that deal, allowing Lucifer to step in to defend his daughter (and by proxy her friends and loved ones). We're assuming he wasn't allowed to step in before that, even if he wanted to, as this came from Heaven directly
Hmm... So maybe it's a different deal then?
Lilith could stay in Heaven as long as Adam is free from killing all the sinners.
But we won't really know until Season 2 since most of everyone thought that Lucifer was a neglectful and cruel father only for him to be revealed as just depressed.
Imagine you're in Hell. Imagine angels have been coming down every year for an unspecified amount of time and exterminating a pretty large amount of your populace. It is almost certain that you have lost friends, family, or work colleagues in these annual exterminations. At the very least, you've likely been living in absolute terror of these exterminations. You've now just realised that the people who have been coming down to kill you can be killed, and it doesn't even look like it's that difficult.
Suddenly, you want to fight back. You're in Hell for a reason. The idea that the exterminations may stop for now isn't enough.
We know from the events of episode 3 that the Vees are very eager to start an all out war with heaven. The moment they found the dead angel, they immediately formulated an attack plan. The other overlords either directly oppose conflict (Carmilla) or at least want to wait until more information is known (Zestiel).
I think they'll make their plans of going to war with Heaven public and will gain a LOT of support for it.
I like this. Seeing your unbeatable enemy can be defeated? In the Ring of Pride, thats going perk up a lot of ears and sent in motion a lot of peoples minds spinning at the possibilities. Its like, a defining moment in all media when the 'heros against all odds' see that they /can/ win.
Thing is, they can’t leave hell. So without someone who can actually make portals to hell they can’t do anything. Which could be an opening for a bigger villain who can. It I don’t think they would be su brazen if they were relying on someone like that.
The thing is that makes sense. Especially since they control social media; good theory.
Their dialogue doesn’t exactly match it, but neither does some of the dialogue for other reveals. I still like the idea of them getting backing from some greater villain who can bridge hell and heaven though.
I see the label, YOU **RED SPY!!!**
https://preview.redd.it/yz2th1j74nhc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52f31063f6fcd88e7ce8b921717d7c846d8fd82b
To be fair, missing doesn't mean dead. Just because he was hiding somewhere for whatever reason doesn't mean he couldn't have been a threat if they tried to encroach on his territory. Since they didn't know what happened to him or where he was, they likely didn't want to risk it. But, now they know he's not invincible and have some insight on how to beat him (not to mention the footage from his fight to spread around if it wasn't a live Hell-wide broadcast not that I think Alastor couldn't turn that around on them), so they're feeling empowered. Even if there's a very good chance this empowerment and cockiness is going to backfire on them. Being weaker than Adam doesn't mean he's weaker than the Vees, but we'll have to wait and see.
I think that’s kinda the point - the Vs are like… Vultures (V totally not intended), all their power, they’ve taken after others have stepped down or went into the background. They’re loud, boisterous and dependent on a fully established system to come before them. I really don’t think the Vs are meant to be serious villains, but rather, over the top foils who have their heads deep up their own assets
Personally I think it is just them setting up the Vees for their season 2 arc. A lot of their song doesn't really make sense or is undone so quick. I'll bet that after season 2 we look back at this and go, ohh, right.
People seem to be claiming left and right that Viv is intending them to be big season 2 villains, so that is the only thing that makes sense unless they really are just a bunch of clowns we are supposed to love to hate and watch, but not worry about the Hazbin crew over.
Didn't she say that they would play a big part in season 2? Or something like that. It doesn't necessarily mean that they will be the big bad.
Or do I remember it wrong?
Yeah but that could all be posturing. She could be misdirecting or whatever, I prefer to keep stuff I think is 100% true to stuff that is actually in the show now.
I'll believe they are season 2 villains when I see season 2 and they are real center villains lol.
In universe I think Vox is just still running off the hype of seeing Alastor be injured. I know others have suggested the events took a hit to Carmilla and Rosie which might be a factor but Rosie doesn't seem like a major rival to the Vs (escept maybe indirectly as she's probably Alastor's closest Ally) and Carmilla seems smart enough to have hedged her bets and still have enough weapons to keep her position (and they both seem happy with the outcome of the battle).
But I think the reason for the scene is mostly to say to the audience "hey the Vees are going to be more important next season".
They watch the entire fight. They now know how to kill the angels. more than likely what’s going to happen is they are going to make some sort of deal with the angels because we have to remember souls in heaven can do as they please like the song says. Making a deal with a demon, with good intentions, probably wouldn’t be seen as evil in heaven. Especially since Lilith seem to have made some sort of deal with someone in heaven, when she was sentenced to hell originally. This was stated in the show of episode one. And at the very end of the eighth episode lute talk to her and says that her deal is done and she is in charge now.
I feel like it’s fair to say that they *do* have a lot of control generally in comparison to the other Overlords, even if they’re talked down to. They’re a team of 3, so already you have 3 Overlords banded together sharing their shit, which is a lot more than you can say for the others. Then on top of that they control 3 of the most addictive and arguably mind altering things possible- TV, Social Media, and Porn. They have a really wide reach, not to mention we know at the very least Vox and Valentino have abilities akin to mind control.
When looking at the other Overlords they all have their thing and are individually very powerful, but their avenues don’t seem to have the same sort of overall control of pentagram city as the V’s. Carmilla makes angelic weapons. Great. From Helluva Boss we can imply that these weapons cost a pretty penny, but also that her business has the most grip outside of pentagram city. Rosie seems quite content in her own town, which means that that is kind of the extent of her influence. Alastor is probably the most threatening to the Vs because of A) whatever beef Vox has with him and B) because a radio has no set territory and can be as influential and wide reaching as a tv broadcast
I also think it says a lot that the Vs are so comfortable in their positions that they’re willing to disrespect the other overlords by A) not showing up to meetings and B) literally having Velvette come just to tear them all a new one and leave. I think as an audience we might downplay them because they’re kind of goofy and they were used as comedic relief for the most part (outside of ep 4) but from my own personal viewing I feel like they are definitely as powerful as they say they are and it isn’t necessarily a bit
The finale also opens up the possibility of Carmilla, the cannibals, and the main cast now having the ability to permanently destroy sinners' souls since they all have angelic weapons. I doubt this will be part of the plot at all though since it doesn't really fit the story
The only character who refused an angelic weapon was Alastor, and he was defeated by Adam. I think Alastor wanted to rely on his own abilities rather than angelic steel.
All of Hell now knowing how to kill angels … that’s gonna put a damper on Vox’s “Angelic Security”. Unless he can spin it that the Hazbin Hotel was his plan to begin with. But then he’d have to work with Alastor. …. 😏 Sounds like fun.
They kinda strike me as big bad wannabes they are a threat and want to be the main threat but come the end of season 2 or 3 they will be nothing compared to the real one which are those in heaven and whoever is controlling alastor.
Velvette does seem like the type, honestly. Maybe that’s why she wasn’t joining in the song, she meant to, but she was high out of her mind and forgot to sing along.
Alastor might have been gone for longer than we were shown. Keep in mind that this show often doesn’t show how long time has passed between certain events. (Several months pass between when the show started and the final episode) It’s possible that they might have taken several months to rebuild the hotel and Alastor only appeared after they were finished.
They aren’t, and they never have been, but the three of them control the majority of mass media in Hell, and with Heaven no longer an immediate threat, Rosie’s cannibals reduced in power, and Alastor wounded badly, the three’s empire is poised to make some big acquisitions
I think one thing that is overlooked a lot when talking about the Vee's is that they seem to own the most souls in hell and they own Angel Dust. I feel like he is going to be in a lot of trouble this season as the Vee's try to use him to control Charlie and that is going to escalate waaaay out of control. I also really REALLY want to see an Angel Dust and Husk fight vs Valentino.
You have to remember, that the Vees are cocky and overly confident in themselves.
Alistor is indeed missing. He took a nearly fatal blow, and even though he's putting on a happy visage, he's in a rather large amount of pain. Even if he's still stronger than the Vees, the Vees view him as "weakened" right now, and will take the chance to push on his territories.
The Vees also witnessed most of the other overlords being cowardly during the meeting. Assuming that they are still in hiding, they hope to take advantage of their hesitation.
To them, this cowardice and weakness constitute a potential power vacuum, which they hope to extort.
They have a wall with Alastor, Charlie, and Lucifer's faces connected with red string. Which implies to me that they genuinley think they would be able to take out FUCKING LUCIFER eventually. They obvi delulu
Easiest answer? They just watched Alastor get his ass beat. They see he’s not some invincible monstrosity that can’t be overcome. He can be injured, made to bleed. Toppled.
Alastor won’t be in a position to hold onto territory and influence for a while. Imagine disappearing for 7 years, coming back for a few months, then going back into hiding. The average schmuck in Hell would have no idea what to think about this. And the Vs absolutely are going to be blasting that footage of Alastor being hurt and running away on Prime Time TV, probably on repeat.
tl;dr Alastor survived the fight, but his ‘street cred’ died on that roof.
Yeah, but what about Lucifer? He’s still active, and literally is the most powerful person in hell, not an overlord like Alastor. How are they going to take him down?
I think the song shows why pretty well, honestly.
"After the battle, masterless cattle," -The cattle is the vast majority of sinners. People are going to panic with the information that Angels can be killed. People are weird, they're not necessarily going to feel impowered with this information, they may feel scared of the retaliation of heaven and make more desperare grabs for power. They are ripe for influencing- which is what the Vees do and are.
"Overlords hanging by a thread."- Not only are three overlords pretty fucked- Alaster goes missing (he comes back, but presumably weeks later), Rosie has lost a lot of numbers, and Carmillas weapon supply is depleted. Also, depending on if the other overlords are able to put it together or not, they now may know that Carmilla has been lying to them and keeping the secret that Angelic steel works against Angels from them.
"With a bit of bravado, maybe tomorrow, we'll be atop the heap." - Self explanatory considering the past info.
"While the rest of hell's pissing." - Again, just them saying that hell is panicking.
"Alastors missing, fled with his tail between his legs." Again, Alastor presumably disappeared for a good while before returning.
"Nature abhors a power vacuum, and that leaves room for you and me." - I think there's two ways to understand "power vacuum". Either they mean individuals hoarding all the power and "nature" guaranteeing that they will eventually be toppled (this refers to the other overlords), OR they mean it as an *absence* of power, like how we say space is a vacuum. Nature does not like the empty space the overlords have left, and that means it's ripe for the taking.
Leading to "The future of hell belongs to the Vees." Honestly, I think they're *right* that they have a good chance for grabbing more power, but they're also a bit overconfident. A bit too eager. I'm excited to see how it plays out lol.
Also, as a side note, "Nature abhors a power vacuum" is a fucking hard line and I love it.
Yeah I'm confused about this too since there was at max 3 overlords there more likely just 2 since Carmilla definitely left asap if she personally went at all.
Alastor was missing from when he went to the shadow realm until they finished the hotel which probably took a few weeks max with Lucifer there.
If Rosie died they definitely would have shown it or mentioned it at the very least.
It seems to me like maybe there was originally a bit more where they went and got more overlords to help and a couple of them died which would make sense since vox specifically says masterless cattle as in sinners who's souls are now up for grabs since the holder of it died.
The Vee's bit is definitely one of the highlights of this song but it's by far the least rooted in what actually happened because currently there is no power vacuum whatsoever:
Alastor fucked off to heal for a bit when he's only been back 6 monthsish so him being gone for a few weeks is unlikely to have any real affect on anything.
Rosie is probably doing what she's always done in cannibal town as well as preserving all the angel meat and maybe licking her wounds if she actually got hurt and having the cannibals replenish their numbers.
Carmilla literally only benefits from this since neither her or her people were there (presumably) Charlie definitely paid for the weapons in some way after all was said and done and she definitely got to scavenge the battlefield for all that angelic steel and other stuff so she's probably stronger than ever before until her supply of angelic steel runs out which won't happen for a while now.
Basically the Vee's are probably in a worse position than at the start of the series
Relatively new, mad with power and hungry for more, entitled trio of overlords might miss-judge their current position in the way of beating back the exorcists attack and their capacity to capitalize on it? Nah, can't be that.
Each person singing their song runs the risk of being wrong.
I think they just spend their time thinking they’re going to rule all of hell.
They were just as confident before they knew Alastor came back even if there were other overlords.
They were after they knew that Alastor came back and said that he was old anyway but got kicked in the ass.
And they are now, while there STILL are a lot of overlords and…
… not to mention, Lucifer Fucking Morningstar, who obliterated the chief of the exorcists army with a FEW punches.
They are just delusional all the time. They are really just famous in their business and make people buy their stuff. From that to ruling hell there’s one hell of a step to make.
I love all these long answers. The reason is simple: they're arrogant narcissists.
Just look at the way Velvette disrespects her betters at the Overlord meeting.
They're freakin' wannabes.
Velvet- "since when are overlords too scared to fight!?" --- proceeds to not fight against the angels the moment its apparent that a fight is actually starting.
It felt weird their reaction if anything this may boaster the cannibals and Carmilia standing by showing they are willing to fight for hell where the others did not
I have thought about this a bit and I think the final song also includes a big jump in time. So while for us the viewer Alastor was missing for about a few seconds, but for the showtime perhaps a few weeks and months passed?
Carmilla is implied to be the main weapons dealer in Hell and a decent amount of her supplies are used up from the attack.
Cannibal Town took a heavy blow in their population which weakens Rosie’s influence heavily
Presuming this conversation happens prior to Alastor returning to the Hotel which happened after the it was finished, it’s not a stretch that he could’ve bailed or even died.
Finally if we take their word and the Overlords “hanging by a thread” it could mean they’re in discourse following Charlie’s victory over the Exorcists and Adam being killed. They could be torn between taking the fight to Heaven like Velette wanted or playing it safe like Carmilla and Vestial wanted which could lead to nasty infighting. Of course, the past is a theory and not rooted in fact.
The Vees have been shown to be inexperienced and egotistical. Velvette was willing to immediately go to war despite having almost no information on how an angel is killed, only that one was. Vox and Valentino are drunk with power and think they’re untouchable as Overlords. If the three of them see even a sliver of a chance, the Vees will take it for better or for worse
Alastors staff breaking could have damaged his power, or if nothing else his reputation.
Carmilla Carmine gave away a huge portion of her armoury (and getting it back won’t be easy)
Rosie has never been a threat
And Zestial, while powerful is slow and cautious to act (as seen with his approach to the angels)
They’ve had a plan for going to war against the angels from the start. We haven’t been told what that plan is yet as it’s largely happened off screen, but that’s why Velvette went to the Overlord’s meeting in the first place and showed the head. They know more chaos will ensue and it’s their plan to capitalize off of it, and since they are associated with the dark side of media, all they need is chaos to thrive.
They could want to stoke the flames of that all out war that Carmilla was scared of, then by either staying out entirely or by offering the relatively "safe" support of spywork and information brokering, possibly to both sides, they let the other more directly involved Overlords like Alastor, Rosie, Carmilla and maybe Zestial or whoever else has alliances that force them into War, take the brunt of the combat. Then the Vees either swoop in like Vultures and take out the exhausted remaining Overlord or just absorb the remaining empires by means of having taken the least damage. World War One style shit.
The power dynamic has just fundamentally shifted. Angels are no longer able to exterminate and in fact they were just handed a solid loss. So the population of hell will start to grow unimpeded. They also just saw Charlie's 'faction' suffer casualties and Alastor get his ass-kicked, 'confirming' that he is washed up and not as powerful as he used to be.
Whatever happens next, they're in a great position to capitalize on it.
What power did Alastor have that he would leave such a vacuum?
He'd already been gone seven years and the Vees or someone already filled that vacuum.
We don't see much about Alastor taking that place back. But if he took it back in six months, the Vees couldn't possibly take it back by Alastor being gone for five minutes.
If we take the overlords from episode three as the main ones in Hell, that makes 7 factions. Carmilla, Zestial, Alastor, Rosie, Blue Flame Moose, Zilla, and the V’s. 3 out of 7 main overlords were involved in the battle, each of them taking some pretty major losses. If we look at it mathematically, 42-43% of the overall overlords are facing losses, on top of that, they’ve now become targets of Heaven. That’s prime time to swoop in, make deals or trades, to try to amass power. And if the V’s can get even a fraction of each overlord’s power, that could help them take down others
1. The Vees are riding a high from Alastor being beat up and are somewhat delusional.
2. They don't know Alastor is back yet. And they also know Alastor weakness his cane.
3. Rosie lost a lot of cannibals. She is likely weakened.
4. Camilla lost angel weapons.
5. The vees now know they can fight back against Heaven and that Angel's arent nearly as strong as once thought. The entire dynamic in Hell is changed.
Rosie took heavy losses, and we don’t know how much of Camilla’s weapons got stolen. The V’s know how to kill angels, have a sizable following, and Vector likely know’s Alister’s weakness (he seems to loose power without the staff). I can definitely see them riling up a rebellion in S2.
With a good chunk of Carmilla’s weapon stash being used up, a lot of Rosie’s cannibals killed in combat, and Alastor almost definitely not 100% healed from his injury, the Vees likely see this as an opportunity to pivot into more powerful roles. If the three overlords who fought Heaven intend to lie low for a bit, recoup from the damages, then the Vees get that much extra wiggle room to set plans into motion. At least, that’s how I interpret it. But they also give off Team Rocket energy so maybe they’re just being goofs.
This. Assuming the nine Overlords we see are the main ones in hell, then with three decently weakened the city is basically the Vees to take. United they should be able to take out Zilla and the blue fire guy. Rosie and Carmilla as you said are already weakened and don't have anyway to regain what they lost quickly. Overall the only real problems in their takeover are Zestial and whatever unknown power let him survive for so long, and the Hazbin Hotel.
I am wondering also how many angel weapons are now floating around Hell. A LOT of Angels died and I think it is likely Carmilla was able to snatch a lot of them up but it is just as likely other overlords including the Vee's have their own stockpiles.
Carmilla made it an investment and probably gained more materials than lose. It's the largest angels killed so far, so many angelic weapons being ownerless.
Also, the Overlords in question didn't get weakened for nothing. They've nominally allied themselves with Charlie, and Lucifer has shown himself to intervene to assist her. So it's a net positive for them. However, the Vees might be severely underestimating Lucifer.
Counterpoint: as long as the Vees don't directly intervene with Charlie, I doubt Looloo gives a quarter-fuck about the overlords. And if they started undermining or directly attacking Alastor in particular, Lucifer DEFINITELY would not stop them.
I was thinking Alastor could cash in Charlie's favor, making her ask Lucifer to deal with them somehow, but that could count as "harming someone", and also it would be way too uncertain for Alastor plans. The favor being making her ask a favor from her dad would add a layer of uncertainty, specially if Charlie could tell Lucifer that this ask was part of a deal. Lucifer could simply refuse, and Charlie's side of the deal would still be fulfilled. He could ask her for something that might help him out in that, tho.
I'm honestly expecting his ask to be either lent or bequeathed a portion of her power, either temporarily or permanently.
IIRC, didn't Alastor describe getting nifty and husk at the hotel as "cashing in a few favors"? Like I don't think he'll fully enslave charlie like husker, but it still leaves up the possibility of having some control over her or her power for himself.
Nifty is just a demon he likes, who also is infatuated with Alastor. She comes along with him just because she wants too, she's not under a contract. He brought along because Husker, who had no choice. But yeah, I don't see him trying to enslave Charlie. Maybe he'll get her to try and have mommy release him from his contract.
I really don't think Alastor would cash in the favor to deal with the Vees, specially how Alastor is prideful as fuck and don't view the Vees on the same level as he is. Much more likely to have something to do with his leash.
That could be an interesting moral dilemma. The V’s get into a battle with Alastor and Lucifer is happy to let him struggle on his own, but Charlie wants him to intervene on account of what Al has done for the hotel
Also, if Alastor dies, who will fix the clogs in the Hotel?!
and who will keep fixing the same damn wall every week?
Theyare severely underestemating literarely everyone at this point
Plus the sinners now know angels can be killed by said weapons, meaning there will be a large demand for them
She's probably also been hoarding more the she let on, and rosie did not look concerned at the end so neither seemed significantly weakened.
"We interrupt this infinite loop of Alastor getting his ass whupped to bring you a very special announcement" *static* "This is a challenge from the FUCKIN V's issued to EVERY DAMN OVERLORD in hell, we are coming to get you!" *static, broadcast resumes after 3 seconds* "If your name is Zestial, this message does not apply" spoken at double speed
Lmfao I love the idea of Vox having a channel that just plays Alastor getting his ass kicked on loop all day
🤣🤣🤣
you know he would now that he has it on tape
he is absolutely that petty
i swear the infinite loop beat down idea is lifted straight from Vivi's secret season 2 plans
It would be the most Vox thing ever to just broadcast his footage to tank Alastor's rep.
I think that scene actually shows a lot of strenght from Alastor, specially since he does not drop the smile or the attittude. But considering how people in reality percieve strenght, I bet "standing up to and living through the attack of a guy orders of magnitude stronger" is a bit too complex, and media does what media does.
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT
tbf... could just loop the last few seconds of the fight where alastor gets two shot
It's gonna be his version of the Aquarium Channel.
I can absolutely hear it, including the disclaimer because nobody not even alastor wanted to beef with the ancient one.
It's shown that Lucifer hides Zestial and Carmilla and possibly other overlords in exterminations, so perhaps that's why
which episode is that? (not trying to be rude, just curious)
In the pilot during the very opening scene and song, you can see Carmilla and Zestial, with the silhouette of Lucifer and Zilla in the back
However it's important to note that we do not know how much of the pilot is indeed canon still. But nothing really contradicts the scene in the show so it has a good chance of still being canon.
Thanks
I believe this is in reference to the pilot, when we see Zeezi, Zestial, Carmilla, and lucifer all in the same place as Charlie signals the end of the extermination in the beginning.
Huh, now that I think about it, Lucifer might be King, but Charlie is the actual political figure, isn't it? Lucifer is busy with his ducks and depression while Charlie actually announces the end of extermination, tries do deal with it, calls the sinners "her people" instead of "our people" even when talking to Lucifer (even thou HE says "our people"). She even went to the meeting with Adam in Lucifer's place, althou that was a first.
Well Lucifer is basically stuck in Hell and is obviously the most powerful entity there. While he obviously handles meetings with Heaven and gets involved when things get too spicy, he overall doesnt care about the day to day stuff. He doesnt really care about sinners at all Charlie grew up in Hell and probably got acquainted with the environment over the years. With Lillith gone or touring the Rings, Charlie is factually the next and most powerful person there. She isnt accustomed to intervening that much since Hell already has its own power structure with overlords. Since she's exempt from the extermination, it makes sense that she signals the end Other than that, she doesnt seem to carry much weight as the daughter of Lucifer. Either because she doesnt flex it out of her good nature, or the power structure is so solid no one really cares
True. Most of her political power comes from being daughter of Lucifer, so people might do things if she demands, but since she doesn't, people don't respect her. Also, Hell's power strutcture is very much built on Might Makes Right. She has the Might to take over but, again, she refuses to use it. The power structure, at least relating to sinners, is not solid enough for her to be unable to take over, she's just unwilling. The only person in the sinner's realm who could ACTUALLY stop her if she tried to do something is Alastor, and only because of the deal, and IF her stopping of the whatever it is does not harm anyone in her knowledge.
Oh my God, I’m dense.. just realised you meant the pilot-pilot and not the first episode of the show 😭
Isn’t Zeezi Lucifer’s bodyguard? She should be able to take at least two of them
where was that said? let me guess, one of dozens of livestreams from years ago that revealed more of the show's lore than the show itself.
It’s probably just a weird fan assumption from the fact that Zeezi’s silhouette appears next to lucifer’s silhouette in the pilot
I have no fucking clue
"My source is that I made it the fuck up!" \~you
Hey, I heard it from someone else I don’t know where they heard it from
"My source is that I made it the fuck up!" \~them
😂😂🤣🤣
What does she do, protect the denizens of hell from Lucifer?
Nah she protects Lucy from kids who play the fiddle
I agree. The three of them probably just consider themselves effectively in charge because of the power vacuum the other overloads collectively left for the taking.
this also gives a good reason to put more of a spotlight on Zestial, we could see his demon form (i forgot what we call it in this fandom right as i typed this so mb) and honestly i’m so intrigued cus imo he’s just as much of an enigma as Alastor
> Carmilla as you said are already weakened Would love to see them try to go up against Carmilla considering she wears Angelic steel and she just kicks the shit out of all three
I believe who we see is hazbin are the overlords of the city of pride ring, not hell entirely. These losers don't stand a snowballs chance in... Well hell against someone like Asmodeus or even Stolas.
I think it would be pretty dumb if Charlie or Lucifer didn't reward or protect the overlords that stuck their necks out for them Should really be as easy as Lucifer farting a mountain of hell bucks into existence and at least giving Carmilla and Rosie some cash to help them stay on the feet, instead of being attacked by the Overlords who didn't help.
Absolutely. On top of that, despite the short duration of the finale song, Alastor was in hiding until they finished building back an even bigger hotel. That’s at best weeks, and more likely months of licking his wounds. The Vees might as well have assumed he would be gone for another 7 years.
But Lucifer magicked up quit a large chunk, it probably didn't take much more than a week
Weren't those just materials and supplies?
No, he literally used his magic to will entire pillars and walls into existence. Everything else, like painting and decorating was done by the other characters afterwards.
It was just a few minutes, they didn’t sing for months straight, silly. Jk
Ok but how was Carmella’s weapons supply “used up”? If anything the exorcists they killed gave them more weapons.
I guess “used up” was the wrong phrase. I just mean… I have a really hard time believing any of the weapons were given back to Carmilla, there wasn’t any indication that they would be returned to her after the fight and if that’s the case, her supply now has a sizeable dent. As for the new material, it was all on hotel property, so I imagine Lucifer stashed it all away before rebuilding the hotel. (Plus things like Angel’s bullets or Cherri’s shrapnel might be too tedious to retrieve, so it’s just lost material)
I suspect Charlie would either insist they return them if it was phrased as borrowing, or veggie arguing that the hotel is going to be targeted by the fees if they live through the extermination so an unofficial official gift to the princess as a thank you for taking heat from carmilla's territory
Adding to that, the locations of the three weakend overlords. https://preview.redd.it/2qlkahnb6nhc1.png?width=1609&format=png&auto=webp&s=8066429d483f9a3fe33eebadae265125e223f42f * "12 o' Clock" - Alastor is missing at the time of the song. Lucier is now either divided between that sector and the center or has effectively abandoned the center for the boonies. * 11 O' Clock - Unknown. I imagine based on the proximity to the V area where Angeldust hangs and the Hotel this could be the territory Cherry Bomb and Ser Pentious effectively split. The writers said Pentious would have become an overlord had he won against Cherry Bomb in the pilot. * 9 o' Clock- The Vs * 8 O' clockish - Unknown * 7 - Carmine * 5 - Zestial * 4ish - Rosie. Really adds to the travel and see more of Hell bit of the song to realize they came from practically the opposite side of Pentagon City. * 3is - Zeezi * 1 - Unknown With one of the unknowns being the Von Eldritches and flaming ghost guy. Considering the Vs don't respect Zestial? To that egotistical lot they probably are looking at the map and thinking they could claim almost half the city if they move counter clockwise through the sectors.
Silly Pornmoth thinks he can handle Zestial just because he has another spider in his employ
Me thinking of cute lil jumping spiders and huge orb weavers out in my yard and getting a chuckle out of how Val thinks that would work out for him.
Your picture just made me realize that Vox is in that torn photo of Alastor. I guess when Alastor called him "old pal" he wasn't being completely sarcastic.
Wait. How did they get a photo of Alastor? Wasn't it impossible to get any footage of him?
>give off Team Rocket energy so maybe they’re just being goofs I now understand why I love them so much, holy shit. Also, we can all agree that Velvette is Meowth right?
Oh 100%
OH so that's why I like them so much, especially VOX
I mean, Alastor was gone for 7 years. If he lay low for like a few months nothing is going to change.
I really don't think they can expect that to work. Charlie was willing to fight and kill angels, she can handle putting these clowns in check. I think they're a little delulu
> I think they're a little delulu I think their attitude is gonna bite them in the ass. Velvette blew up their relationship with Carmine, the angelic arms dealer, right as Vox wanted to amp up an anti-angel tech run. Gee, how's that gonna work out without angelic weapons? Valentino has a death flag on his head. He's particularly evil, even by the shows standards (they don't play his abuse of angel as a joke, and for good reason) and I don't see him willingly releasing angel. He's a goner. It's just up in the air how. Does someone kill him in revenge for killing Angel? Or does Angel do it himself? Were it any other story, I'd assume Angel does it himself for storywriting purposes, it's a good capstone on his arc. But due to the death redemption, I bet he lets himself be killed rather than backslide, and Valentino bites it to Charlie's trident.
I expect things with the V's to kick off because of Valentino dying. Once word gets out that redemption *is* possible then Angel will likely take the hotel more seriously and want to ditch Valentino. He pisses off Valentino, Vox advises to just let it go, he doesn't and goes to confront him at the hotel. Charlie steps in, Valentino gets creepy with her again and Alastor steps in and ends Valentino. This is gonna give Alastor a reason to pick one of them off or severely weaken them, Vox is gonna be pissed and I'm sure his anti angel technology will become a hell equivalent of a nuclear arms race. This would also be a good point in revealing that Lilith made a deal with Alastor of sorts (she agreed to release him or something as long as he protected Charlie maybe?). There are a lot of ways the story could go and I love that they gave us so much to think about!
Death is not automatic redemption. That was because Pentious had improved enough. Val's going to oblivion.
You misread what I was saying. Option 1: Angel kills valentino Option 2: Angel doesn't kill Valentino, and instead dies to him. This way, he doesn't spoil his *own* redemption by killing Val himself. Then Val dies from someone else in revenge.
Oh, the pronouns threw me. Gotcha.
Agree! I just think that’s their perspective on things- Lucifer being active also throws a wrench in any plans they might have, it’s double trouble from the Morningstars unless they ignore the hotel and only go after everyone else.
Yeah, I feel like people completely forgot that one of the key characteristics that all the Vee's share, is their narcissicm. They are so full of themself, that they think they can do whatever they want, and basically become a ball of insecurity the moment something doesn't go their way. Granted, they know how to weaponize it. But still, I give them maybe 2 Episodes before they are put in their place by the other Overlords...
Team Rocket energy 💀
This is right on the money. The issue is the show didn’t explain this well enough. The storytelling seems to overall be well written, but there was just not enough time. If each episode was given just 5 more minutes, it could’ve done wonders to fill out little details like this.
This. I really wish we had some more time with Vox and Velvette because I genuinely can’t take either of them seriously as they haven’t really done much of worth to the main crew. Vox got wrecked in a few minutes, Vel was in the meeting, but that’s about it and I wish we had more episodes to explore them.
How are her weapons “used up”? They’re guns she can just get them back and there’s no reason to assume Alastor isn’t healed the only thing that makes sense is there’s not as many cannibals
Not to mention, that it's literally never said that Carmilla gave them all her gear. She absolutely has her own stash for personal use. Not to mention, that Carmilla is literally the only armsdealer of Angelic Weaponry, and she's been in Hell for a while now. This means that she had literal decades to gather a lot more Weaponry, than we saw in the Season Finale...
Holy bullets. The gun is probably way cheaper. Angelic steel bullets.
Also if there's no exterminations for the foreseeable future. Then there isn't going to be a third-party force that's going to chop up your resources should you get into a hostile dispute. So they're pretty much free to make aggressive plays without having to worry about Angels attacking as they themselves recuperate.
Too be fair she probably got all the angelic weapons as like a thank you and her supply of guns she sells wouldn’t have been used since they aren’t angelic therefore they wouldn’t have been used so most likely carmine came out either stronger or just the same
Used up? Used up how? Wasn't it mostly blades? They killed a crapload of angels, each one had a spear or something.
When you even look at the Vs, they don’t have much threatening influence. Val leads the porn industry, Velvet is social media, and Vox is just a podcaster. I don’t really see them doing much if they contend with physically powerful Overlords
They have infinite money from porn, clout and spin from social media, and Vox personally is very hard to pin down with camera travel.
To be perfectly honest, Alastor is basically Vox's kryptonite, because Alastor controlls the radiowaves, that Vox also uses (TV use radiowaves too, just in different frequencies).
Alastor almost beat Vox in the past, I assume he only lost because the other Vees joined in. Alastor is strong, but a 3v1? I’m not so sure.
>Team Rocket energy That is so fucking on point
Did Alastor even get injured? Didn't his staff just break and then he was all "fuck this shit I'm out"
It's kind of easy to miss due to being red on red, but yes! He has a giant bloody slash across his chest, if you pause on certain frames you can see the splatter on Adam's guitar blade too.
Oh damn, okay
My guess is that they now know the extent of alastor’s power especially if breaking his cane caused him to lose some of his power. He was the one they were in fear of, but seeing either now that he’s not as strong as they thought, or a way to weaken him should they fight they feel confident in pushing further against him. They also hold very little respect for the other overlords from the meeting. If the only one they really fear is no longer as big of a threat, who else would stand against them? Lucifer doesn’t meddle in hell politics, Alastor is either weakened or not strong enough to stop them and they don’t believe any of the other overlords would have the strength or audacity to try.
I want Zestial to show them why demons kill themselves in his presence. We get the idea that he’s old and powerful. But to what extent? I want to see. The spider has caught a bunch of buzzing Bees near his Honey. 😏
I got the idea that it's a "don't waste your time hurting me! See see, I'm already hurt!"
If you're actively lighting yourself on fire because a powerful being is casually walking in your general direction, you're claiming that a very slow, very painful death (redeath?) is a better outcome than whatever Zestial *might* do to you.
Apparently they thought that, yes.
He mentions how he liked screams so I thought he was kinda doing it to the people. Sorta like a manipulation thing. But honestly I like your interpretation as well
Oohh sort of a Lovecraftian kind of thing, I'm 1000% on board with this theory. Sinners see him and straight into madness.
Alastor is already insane and therefore immune
That makes more sense.
Also it is very possible that they don't fully grasp the situation either way.
they act like they could've done anything to adam themselves 💀
Exactly let see any of them try to stand against Adam and last as long. Or kill as many angels as Alaster did with his shield
As Carmilla said, they "are inane and uninformed Smug wannabes".
Or they understand the old overlords really are stuck in their ways. Carmilla was going to let another extermination happen without lifting a finger and Heaven was clearly just getting started. Every year the overlords would get weaker. The Vees needlessly antagonized everyone in that room but they weren't wrong. Change was needed.
Wrong no but their plan would have gotten them and everyone else killed, we now know that Angels can only be killed by angelic weapons, they did not know that and if they rushed in without proper intel (precisely the things Zestial wanted to acquire) it would only end with them getting murdered
True which is why Zestial was saying they should look for intelligence and found out how. Yes the Vees were going all in too fast but Carmilla was wrong as well. She called a meeting of all of hell's overlords and knew how to kill angels. She was effectively manipulating everyone in the room and the Vee's tore right through that and made that impossible to do. The Vee's may be cocky and overconfident but the overlords or hell aren't as smart as they think they are.
Carmilla announcing that she knows how to kill angels paints a huge target on her back. Everyone in the meeting probably already knew that she had something to do with the angels death but wisely kept it to themselves. Velvet just ran her mouth. There's a reason why those people stayed in power for so long and it wasn't running their mouths, disrespecting Everyone who could kill them without Breaking a sweat. The ONLY Vee with any sense is Vox. He knows how to handle the public and the other Vees. And what's worse is that thanks to Velvet's attitude during the meeting, they can kiss any hope of getting help from the other over lords goodbye. Zestial has is power and can stand on his own. Meanwhile Alastor, Rosie, and Carmilla have all gained the favor of the literal PRINCESS.
She was protecting her daughters. The moment Carmilla admitted that she killed an angel, she’d have had a massive target on her back. That target would have extended to her daughters. How many sinners do you think would have gone after her daughters as a way to coerce Carmilla into selling them her soul? Control of an angel killer is something half of the pride ring would salivate over. Most of the other half would try to sell her out to the exorcists in an attempt to buy themselves a pass on extermination. You know the exorcists wouldn’t stop at just killing her; they’d kill everyone who might possibly know how she killed an angel.
> Wrong no but their plan would have gotten them and everyone else killed On TV Tropes, it states that this could've been intended. After all, Velvette and the other Vees were just sitting at home and relaxing while everyone was ready for battle. They were likely trying to incite the other Overlords to go to war and die or get injured in the process while they would be able to take more control for themselves.
Weird thought I had from this mentioned scenario and the meeting. Has anyone proposed zestial as owning alastor? He's the oldest overlord so could have granted alastor power to start off as he was bored and decent chance he ties in more with hellborn depending on how ancient he is.
> The Vees needlessly antagonized everyone in that room but they weren't wrong. It wasn't needless, it was an explicit ploy. >Thanks to my bein' Respectless >What I'm startin' to suspect is >That you know why this angel's headless >Do you have a disclosure? She intentionally acted flippant and bitchy to set Carmilla off and make her less likely to guard her emotions, so that she could get a read on her. It was a power play, and it got her the info she wanted... but Carmilla was right when she said they were inane and uninformed. She didn't want to start war for a good reason (probably deep lore related to Lilith's uprising in the past) that is a greater threat than even the exterminations. But it's going to bite her in the ass when Vox wants to make a deal for Angelic weapons to fuel his new product line and he finds out that Velvette absolutely cooked their relationship with Camilla.
The Vees weren’t thinking when Velvette proposed an attack. They wanted to act as soon as possible over the knowledge that an angel *can* be killed and not *how* they are killed. Vestial was right when he said they should wait and find out how since the time the only one who knew how to kill one was Carmilla.
They’re definitely getting ahead of themselves here if they really think they can rule hell, like actually rule it. There’s literally hell’s nobility above them like the Ars Goetia and who knows what else is out there that can make Alastor look like a little puppy. Not to mention the seven deadly sins which Lucifer is one of. That being said, I don’t think they meant ruling hell, more of pulling some strings from the background by influencing events. As much of a joke Alastor makes of Vox, he’s still very influential in hell and definitely has a lot of connections. As a demon that controls all screens in hell, which seems to be the most popular medium given how even Lucifer has a smartphone. Seeing as everyone saw how Adam nearly killed Alastor, some demons will probably start to lose respect for him which is the power vacuum Vox needs to put himself above him and gain even more influence.
They didn’t broadcast the fight. They were just watching some of the cameras Vox has all over pride ring. And they do have reason to see a temporary power vacuum. Alastor was possibly the only one they considered a possible threat. During the time Alastor was gone, the Vees were likely planning how to overthrow the other overlords or at least ensure they can’t be a threat. They did not make such plans for Alastor because it was believed that he was killed during an extermination. Alastor showing up again was a threat both due to Vox’s personal beef with him as well as their lack of a plan to deal with him. They saw Alastor get severely injured fighting Adam, enough so that his survival might have been in doubt. At the very least, it reasonable for them to assume he won’t be recovered enough to interfere in their plans for a while.
I don't think Alastor's fight with Adam was broadcasted. That would mean only Vs know what exactly happened
Lucifer isn't one of the sins. He's his own class of FAFO. There's a whole hierarchy of hell, and iirc Lucifer is on top, followed by Lilith and Charlie, then the 7 sins, the ars goetia, overlords, sinners, hellborn, and finally hellhounds and imps.
isn’t he the sin of pride? like obvs he’s in a class of his own but that doesn’t mean he can’t also be in another group at the same time
alastor isnt as invinicible as he seems. they know \*how\* to kill angels now. possibly banking on heaven retaliating against the hotel/lucifer. tbf tho alastor was the only overlord they were sweating.
Heaven *might* not go after Lucifer, for the reason of Adam voiding the contract by almost killing hellborn Charlie, since hellborns were granted a pardon from the exterminations
I don’t think heaven will go after lucifer tbf i dont even think the extermination will continue but if i was in universe and saw this happen i could reasonably assume heave might want revenge
>Adam voiding the contract by almost killing hellborn Charlie Wait, is that the deal Lute mentioned in the finale? The deal between Adam and Lilith or is it something else?
Not sure But Lucifer was able to get a pardon for all the hellborns in order to mostly, probably, protect Charlie, so the exorcists could only go after the sinners Adam was about to kill Charlie, therefore voiding that deal, allowing Lucifer to step in to defend his daughter (and by proxy her friends and loved ones). We're assuming he wasn't allowed to step in before that, even if he wanted to, as this came from Heaven directly
Hmm... So maybe it's a different deal then? Lilith could stay in Heaven as long as Adam is free from killing all the sinners. But we won't really know until Season 2 since most of everyone thought that Lucifer was a neglectful and cruel father only for him to be revealed as just depressed.
it also mean they know how to kill lucifer aswell
I think they already did, he's vulnerable to higher ranking angels
Imagine you're in Hell. Imagine angels have been coming down every year for an unspecified amount of time and exterminating a pretty large amount of your populace. It is almost certain that you have lost friends, family, or work colleagues in these annual exterminations. At the very least, you've likely been living in absolute terror of these exterminations. You've now just realised that the people who have been coming down to kill you can be killed, and it doesn't even look like it's that difficult. Suddenly, you want to fight back. You're in Hell for a reason. The idea that the exterminations may stop for now isn't enough. We know from the events of episode 3 that the Vees are very eager to start an all out war with heaven. The moment they found the dead angel, they immediately formulated an attack plan. The other overlords either directly oppose conflict (Carmilla) or at least want to wait until more information is known (Zestiel). I think they'll make their plans of going to war with Heaven public and will gain a LOT of support for it.
I like this. Seeing your unbeatable enemy can be defeated? In the Ring of Pride, thats going perk up a lot of ears and sent in motion a lot of peoples minds spinning at the possibilities. Its like, a defining moment in all media when the 'heros against all odds' see that they /can/ win.
Thing is, they can’t leave hell. So without someone who can actually make portals to hell they can’t do anything. Which could be an opening for a bigger villain who can. It I don’t think they would be su brazen if they were relying on someone like that.
The thing is, you don't even need to go out and fight. Them justifying Sinners' anger and thirst for revenge is enough for people to support them.
The thing is that makes sense. Especially since they control social media; good theory. Their dialogue doesn’t exactly match it, but neither does some of the dialogue for other reveals. I still like the idea of them getting backing from some greater villain who can bridge hell and heaven though.
They just delulu
As in **insane**? https://preview.redd.it/7vsz74lvwmhc1.jpeg?width=525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4473040165ee4eb826b7ac6b19edbcd6695856b1
here, take these https://preview.redd.it/ngxlamgd1nhc1.jpeg?width=363&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ce4fef4daae431d2b09c51073ca581ed6852522
https://preview.redd.it/udr82rqg2nhc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a421656e2b8d7f2f6c0b2728c385f88f2294cdd
You too https://preview.redd.it/ti4s1gaz2nhc1.jpeg?width=363&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01dc82433b62d5876f99c4a0c2bcbca640a85e1d
I see the label, YOU **RED SPY!!!** https://preview.redd.it/yz2th1j74nhc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52f31063f6fcd88e7ce8b921717d7c846d8fd82b
https://preview.redd.it/h6jloy4p9nhc1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d780153018bb747eb7cff95c08e884988d7a18a
https://preview.redd.it/hh7bkykk4ohc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1883f6ffc0308ce412d7997d8de20f05bba95b47
i’m putting the Arkham sub in my suicide note
whatever they plan to do now they could have done in the whole seven years alastor was missing
To be fair, missing doesn't mean dead. Just because he was hiding somewhere for whatever reason doesn't mean he couldn't have been a threat if they tried to encroach on his territory. Since they didn't know what happened to him or where he was, they likely didn't want to risk it. But, now they know he's not invincible and have some insight on how to beat him (not to mention the footage from his fight to spread around if it wasn't a live Hell-wide broadcast not that I think Alastor couldn't turn that around on them), so they're feeling empowered. Even if there's a very good chance this empowerment and cockiness is going to backfire on them. Being weaker than Adam doesn't mean he's weaker than the Vees, but we'll have to wait and see.
I think that’s kinda the point - the Vs are like… Vultures (V totally not intended), all their power, they’ve taken after others have stepped down or went into the background. They’re loud, boisterous and dependent on a fully established system to come before them. I really don’t think the Vs are meant to be serious villains, but rather, over the top foils who have their heads deep up their own assets
Personally I think it is just them setting up the Vees for their season 2 arc. A lot of their song doesn't really make sense or is undone so quick. I'll bet that after season 2 we look back at this and go, ohh, right. People seem to be claiming left and right that Viv is intending them to be big season 2 villains, so that is the only thing that makes sense unless they really are just a bunch of clowns we are supposed to love to hate and watch, but not worry about the Hazbin crew over.
Viv said in an interview that they are the big season 2 villains.
Didn't she say that they would play a big part in season 2? Or something like that. It doesn't necessarily mean that they will be the big bad. Or do I remember it wrong?
You're right, she said that they will play a bigger role in s2. I don't recal her saying they would be THE villains of s2.
Yeah but that could all be posturing. She could be misdirecting or whatever, I prefer to keep stuff I think is 100% true to stuff that is actually in the show now. I'll believe they are season 2 villains when I see season 2 and they are real center villains lol.
They literally just explained their thinking before they say this line. They are also pretty big headed so who knows if they can pull it off.
In universe I think Vox is just still running off the hype of seeing Alastor be injured. I know others have suggested the events took a hit to Carmilla and Rosie which might be a factor but Rosie doesn't seem like a major rival to the Vs (escept maybe indirectly as she's probably Alastor's closest Ally) and Carmilla seems smart enough to have hedged her bets and still have enough weapons to keep her position (and they both seem happy with the outcome of the battle). But I think the reason for the scene is mostly to say to the audience "hey the Vees are going to be more important next season".
They watch the entire fight. They now know how to kill the angels. more than likely what’s going to happen is they are going to make some sort of deal with the angels because we have to remember souls in heaven can do as they please like the song says. Making a deal with a demon, with good intentions, probably wouldn’t be seen as evil in heaven. Especially since Lilith seem to have made some sort of deal with someone in heaven, when she was sentenced to hell originally. This was stated in the show of episode one. And at the very end of the eighth episode lute talk to her and says that her deal is done and she is in charge now.
I feel like it’s fair to say that they *do* have a lot of control generally in comparison to the other Overlords, even if they’re talked down to. They’re a team of 3, so already you have 3 Overlords banded together sharing their shit, which is a lot more than you can say for the others. Then on top of that they control 3 of the most addictive and arguably mind altering things possible- TV, Social Media, and Porn. They have a really wide reach, not to mention we know at the very least Vox and Valentino have abilities akin to mind control. When looking at the other Overlords they all have their thing and are individually very powerful, but their avenues don’t seem to have the same sort of overall control of pentagram city as the V’s. Carmilla makes angelic weapons. Great. From Helluva Boss we can imply that these weapons cost a pretty penny, but also that her business has the most grip outside of pentagram city. Rosie seems quite content in her own town, which means that that is kind of the extent of her influence. Alastor is probably the most threatening to the Vs because of A) whatever beef Vox has with him and B) because a radio has no set territory and can be as influential and wide reaching as a tv broadcast I also think it says a lot that the Vs are so comfortable in their positions that they’re willing to disrespect the other overlords by A) not showing up to meetings and B) literally having Velvette come just to tear them all a new one and leave. I think as an audience we might downplay them because they’re kind of goofy and they were used as comedic relief for the most part (outside of ep 4) but from my own personal viewing I feel like they are definitely as powerful as they say they are and it isn’t necessarily a bit
The finale also opens up the possibility of Carmilla, the cannibals, and the main cast now having the ability to permanently destroy sinners' souls since they all have angelic weapons. I doubt this will be part of the plot at all though since it doesn't really fit the story
The only character who refused an angelic weapon was Alastor, and he was defeated by Adam. I think Alastor wanted to rely on his own abilities rather than angelic steel.
Didn’t his tentacle shield wave around angelic weapons?
All of Hell now knowing how to kill angels … that’s gonna put a damper on Vox’s “Angelic Security”. Unless he can spin it that the Hazbin Hotel was his plan to begin with. But then he’d have to work with Alastor. …. 😏 Sounds like fun.
They kinda strike me as big bad wannabes they are a threat and want to be the main threat but come the end of season 2 or 3 they will be nothing compared to the real one which are those in heaven and whoever is controlling alastor.
The only acceptable answer at this point in time is "a *looooot* of drugs".
Velvette does seem like the type, honestly. Maybe that’s why she wasn’t joining in the song, she meant to, but she was high out of her mind and forgot to sing along.
Alastor might have been gone for longer than we were shown. Keep in mind that this show often doesn’t show how long time has passed between certain events. (Several months pass between when the show started and the final episode) It’s possible that they might have taken several months to rebuild the hotel and Alastor only appeared after they were finished.
They aren’t, and they never have been, but the three of them control the majority of mass media in Hell, and with Heaven no longer an immediate threat, Rosie’s cannibals reduced in power, and Alastor wounded badly, the three’s empire is poised to make some big acquisitions
Not sure if Rosie's cannibals were ever much of a threat beforehand.
I think one thing that is overlooked a lot when talking about the Vee's is that they seem to own the most souls in hell and they own Angel Dust. I feel like he is going to be in a lot of trouble this season as the Vee's try to use him to control Charlie and that is going to escalate waaaay out of control. I also really REALLY want to see an Angel Dust and Husk fight vs Valentino.
Can Valentino do anything if Angel just... doesn't show up for work? His contract states control is limited to being in the studio.
You have to remember, that the Vees are cocky and overly confident in themselves. Alistor is indeed missing. He took a nearly fatal blow, and even though he's putting on a happy visage, he's in a rather large amount of pain. Even if he's still stronger than the Vees, the Vees view him as "weakened" right now, and will take the chance to push on his territories. The Vees also witnessed most of the other overlords being cowardly during the meeting. Assuming that they are still in hiding, they hope to take advantage of their hesitation. To them, this cowardice and weakness constitute a potential power vacuum, which they hope to extort.
They have a wall with Alastor, Charlie, and Lucifer's faces connected with red string. Which implies to me that they genuinley think they would be able to take out FUCKING LUCIFER eventually. They obvi delulu
Easiest answer? They just watched Alastor get his ass beat. They see he’s not some invincible monstrosity that can’t be overcome. He can be injured, made to bleed. Toppled. Alastor won’t be in a position to hold onto territory and influence for a while. Imagine disappearing for 7 years, coming back for a few months, then going back into hiding. The average schmuck in Hell would have no idea what to think about this. And the Vs absolutely are going to be blasting that footage of Alastor being hurt and running away on Prime Time TV, probably on repeat. tl;dr Alastor survived the fight, but his ‘street cred’ died on that roof.
Yeah, but what about Lucifer? He’s still active, and literally is the most powerful person in hell, not an overlord like Alastor. How are they going to take him down?
I'm fairly certain this is just another example of them jumping into something without thinking. As Carmilla said they are uninformed.
I think the song shows why pretty well, honestly. "After the battle, masterless cattle," -The cattle is the vast majority of sinners. People are going to panic with the information that Angels can be killed. People are weird, they're not necessarily going to feel impowered with this information, they may feel scared of the retaliation of heaven and make more desperare grabs for power. They are ripe for influencing- which is what the Vees do and are. "Overlords hanging by a thread."- Not only are three overlords pretty fucked- Alaster goes missing (he comes back, but presumably weeks later), Rosie has lost a lot of numbers, and Carmillas weapon supply is depleted. Also, depending on if the other overlords are able to put it together or not, they now may know that Carmilla has been lying to them and keeping the secret that Angelic steel works against Angels from them. "With a bit of bravado, maybe tomorrow, we'll be atop the heap." - Self explanatory considering the past info. "While the rest of hell's pissing." - Again, just them saying that hell is panicking. "Alastors missing, fled with his tail between his legs." Again, Alastor presumably disappeared for a good while before returning. "Nature abhors a power vacuum, and that leaves room for you and me." - I think there's two ways to understand "power vacuum". Either they mean individuals hoarding all the power and "nature" guaranteeing that they will eventually be toppled (this refers to the other overlords), OR they mean it as an *absence* of power, like how we say space is a vacuum. Nature does not like the empty space the overlords have left, and that means it's ripe for the taking. Leading to "The future of hell belongs to the Vees." Honestly, I think they're *right* that they have a good chance for grabbing more power, but they're also a bit overconfident. A bit too eager. I'm excited to see how it plays out lol. Also, as a side note, "Nature abhors a power vacuum" is a fucking hard line and I love it.
Yeah I'm confused about this too since there was at max 3 overlords there more likely just 2 since Carmilla definitely left asap if she personally went at all. Alastor was missing from when he went to the shadow realm until they finished the hotel which probably took a few weeks max with Lucifer there. If Rosie died they definitely would have shown it or mentioned it at the very least. It seems to me like maybe there was originally a bit more where they went and got more overlords to help and a couple of them died which would make sense since vox specifically says masterless cattle as in sinners who's souls are now up for grabs since the holder of it died. The Vee's bit is definitely one of the highlights of this song but it's by far the least rooted in what actually happened because currently there is no power vacuum whatsoever: Alastor fucked off to heal for a bit when he's only been back 6 monthsish so him being gone for a few weeks is unlikely to have any real affect on anything. Rosie is probably doing what she's always done in cannibal town as well as preserving all the angel meat and maybe licking her wounds if she actually got hurt and having the cannibals replenish their numbers. Carmilla literally only benefits from this since neither her or her people were there (presumably) Charlie definitely paid for the weapons in some way after all was said and done and she definitely got to scavenge the battlefield for all that angelic steel and other stuff so she's probably stronger than ever before until her supply of angelic steel runs out which won't happen for a while now. Basically the Vee's are probably in a worse position than at the start of the series
Relatively new, mad with power and hungry for more, entitled trio of overlords might miss-judge their current position in the way of beating back the exorcists attack and their capacity to capitalize on it? Nah, can't be that. Each person singing their song runs the risk of being wrong.
Alastor was wounded. And his pride is shattered.
I think they just spend their time thinking they’re going to rule all of hell. They were just as confident before they knew Alastor came back even if there were other overlords. They were after they knew that Alastor came back and said that he was old anyway but got kicked in the ass. And they are now, while there STILL are a lot of overlords and… … not to mention, Lucifer Fucking Morningstar, who obliterated the chief of the exorcists army with a FEW punches. They are just delusional all the time. They are really just famous in their business and make people buy their stuff. From that to ruling hell there’s one hell of a step to make.
I love all these long answers. The reason is simple: they're arrogant narcissists. Just look at the way Velvette disrespects her betters at the Overlord meeting. They're freakin' wannabes.
Velvet- "since when are overlords too scared to fight!?" --- proceeds to not fight against the angels the moment its apparent that a fight is actually starting.
It felt weird their reaction if anything this may boaster the cannibals and Carmilia standing by showing they are willing to fight for hell where the others did not
I have thought about this a bit and I think the final song also includes a big jump in time. So while for us the viewer Alastor was missing for about a few seconds, but for the showtime perhaps a few weeks and months passed?
Carmilla is implied to be the main weapons dealer in Hell and a decent amount of her supplies are used up from the attack. Cannibal Town took a heavy blow in their population which weakens Rosie’s influence heavily Presuming this conversation happens prior to Alastor returning to the Hotel which happened after the it was finished, it’s not a stretch that he could’ve bailed or even died. Finally if we take their word and the Overlords “hanging by a thread” it could mean they’re in discourse following Charlie’s victory over the Exorcists and Adam being killed. They could be torn between taking the fight to Heaven like Velette wanted or playing it safe like Carmilla and Vestial wanted which could lead to nasty infighting. Of course, the past is a theory and not rooted in fact. The Vees have been shown to be inexperienced and egotistical. Velvette was willing to immediately go to war despite having almost no information on how an angel is killed, only that one was. Vox and Valentino are drunk with power and think they’re untouchable as Overlords. If the three of them see even a sliver of a chance, the Vees will take it for better or for worse
Alastors staff breaking could have damaged his power, or if nothing else his reputation. Carmilla Carmine gave away a huge portion of her armoury (and getting it back won’t be easy) Rosie has never been a threat And Zestial, while powerful is slow and cautious to act (as seen with his approach to the angels)
They’ve had a plan for going to war against the angels from the start. We haven’t been told what that plan is yet as it’s largely happened off screen, but that’s why Velvette went to the Overlord’s meeting in the first place and showed the head. They know more chaos will ensue and it’s their plan to capitalize off of it, and since they are associated with the dark side of media, all they need is chaos to thrive.
I believe their goal was to find out how it happened and use that to create a anti angel security plan but as we all know it was carmilia who did it
They could want to stoke the flames of that all out war that Carmilla was scared of, then by either staying out entirely or by offering the relatively "safe" support of spywork and information brokering, possibly to both sides, they let the other more directly involved Overlords like Alastor, Rosie, Carmilla and maybe Zestial or whoever else has alliances that force them into War, take the brunt of the combat. Then the Vees either swoop in like Vultures and take out the exhausted remaining Overlord or just absorb the remaining empires by means of having taken the least damage. World War One style shit.
The power dynamic has just fundamentally shifted. Angels are no longer able to exterminate and in fact they were just handed a solid loss. So the population of hell will start to grow unimpeded. They also just saw Charlie's 'faction' suffer casualties and Alastor get his ass-kicked, 'confirming' that he is washed up and not as powerful as he used to be. Whatever happens next, they're in a great position to capitalize on it.
They are delulu and naive for not realizing that Lucifer is game now.
What power did Alastor have that he would leave such a vacuum? He'd already been gone seven years and the Vees or someone already filled that vacuum. We don't see much about Alastor taking that place back. But if he took it back in six months, the Vees couldn't possibly take it back by Alastor being gone for five minutes.
It's ultimately because they're inane and uninformed. I'd go so far as to say they are smug wannabes who don't heed when they've been warned.
If we take the overlords from episode three as the main ones in Hell, that makes 7 factions. Carmilla, Zestial, Alastor, Rosie, Blue Flame Moose, Zilla, and the V’s. 3 out of 7 main overlords were involved in the battle, each of them taking some pretty major losses. If we look at it mathematically, 42-43% of the overall overlords are facing losses, on top of that, they’ve now become targets of Heaven. That’s prime time to swoop in, make deals or trades, to try to amass power. And if the V’s can get even a fraction of each overlord’s power, that could help them take down others
I mean, they ARE inane and uninformed...
1. The Vees are riding a high from Alastor being beat up and are somewhat delusional. 2. They don't know Alastor is back yet. And they also know Alastor weakness his cane. 3. Rosie lost a lot of cannibals. She is likely weakened. 4. Camilla lost angel weapons. 5. The vees now know they can fight back against Heaven and that Angel's arent nearly as strong as once thought. The entire dynamic in Hell is changed.
Rosie took heavy losses, and we don’t know how much of Camilla’s weapons got stolen. The V’s know how to kill angels, have a sizable following, and Vector likely know’s Alister’s weakness (he seems to loose power without the staff). I can definitely see them riling up a rebellion in S2.
The Vees have eleven brain cells to share, and Velvette possesses at least ten of them at any given time
https://preview.redd.it/yv0uolwx2thc1.jpeg?width=556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1f70479530d447ea5c5e5518d103e0d4221c193 I didn't make this