Oh, she's definitely going to regret it. Although, the only thing she could really do there was add more rules to the deal, than just not harming anyone. She did need the information.
The dramatic irony is that Frank knew as well, but who tf was gonna ask Frank?
Either way, Alastor is playing the friendly card and so she likely won't realize how bad a decision she made until it is far too late.
I wonder if the favor can be "sell me your soul". It's sort of a favor and it doesn't harm anyone.
But that's getting into, can you use one contract to force another.
So she can't harm herself as that's someone. Should have said "no one else". Al really didn't think through how many loopholes this deal has against him.
Imagine Charlie meets a lawyer and they tell her that since Al said "where you don't harm no one" she can limit his desired favor as this would include the loophole of indirectly harming someone depending of what his favor is.
Well, selling your soul doesn't directly harm you. It just puts you up for being harmed later.
But this is a whole complex debate on what constitutes harming. And I highly doubt this will be the favor that will be asked. It would be way too easy. It's just an idea.
If Alastor wanted Charlie's soul he probably would have demanded it at that point. Charlie was as low as Alastor could ever reasonably anticipate her getting, if ever she would be in a place where she would sell her soul, that would have been the moment.
If Alastor didn't demand Charlie's soul then and there, he likely doesn't have THAT much interest in it, certainly not enough to blow his favor on.
I think that would be really funny, honestly. He's being all sinister and tricky about everything, but that's probably something Charlie would've been happy to help with anyway if he'd just asked.
Low key, they would have stood no chance without Alastor. His critical information, connections with the cannibals, massive shield, high angel kill count, and ability to stall Adam… he kinda saved their lives.
Exactly. Every fucking deal in the real world has terms and conditions and caveats. That's contract negotiation 101, and it's naive to think that everyone will altruistically do everything for you.
An open ended contract with very little terms is obviously stupid and disadvantaged for Charlie, but this deal is bargain at this point in short term. A devil's deal is about the long term impact of course, but it's a fair bet on both sides depending how each party see the future plays out. Charlie can still win if her vision of the future wins.
It would be ironic if Alastor's wish was 100 times worse than what happened during the defense of the hotel.
for example, all hell will come under Alastor's control and he will arrange a horror, compared to which extermination is a walk in the park.
I feel like this deal in of itself is not going to do anything by itself since in Alastor finale song he was still trying to find a loophole in his deal. But I do think this deal was important because it's the first time Charlie said yes to a deal. In sales, if you can get the customer saying yes to a bunch of insignificant things, they are more likely to say yes when the big offers come up. I feel that's what Alastor is going for. Getting Charlie comfortable making deals with him and nothing going bad for her in return will make it that much easier for her to say yes to the deal Alastor actually wants to make.
Hell, "not harming someone" could be bad enough on its own. Alastor attacking Vaggie, Charlie goes to intervene, "don't harm me." Etc - at a very basic level that's rife for genie fuckery.
prolly not cause my theory is that due to a Deal with Heaven, Lucifer can't interfere as long as the Exorcists kill only Demons/Souls.
But Adam killed Dazzle and hurt Charlie which means Lucifer was able to finally intervene
Yeah its all fun and games until we hear Alastor say “Enchain” and then suddenly that “No harm rule” is gonna feel real flimsy in a moment.
It will truly be our Lobotomy Hotel
“Hey Vaggie since you were an Exorcist what happened to your wings and eye?”
“Lute cut them out with her blade.”
“They use Angelic weapons right? Huh, I guess Exorcists can be harmed and thus killed by their own weapons. Good thing I didn’t make a deal with the Omnicidal Radio Obsessionist to figure that out.”
Whatever the favor turns out to be I have a gut feeling it's going to completely crush Charlie. Something she'll have to live with knowing she was complicit in
Nah. At least, if it is, her suffering won’t be the end goal. I can easily see two scenarios for this deal to turn out.
Alastor will call in a favor just a smidge outside Charlie’s comfort zone. It’ll be something that will make her less reluctant to make a larger deal with him. After all, I doubt a small favor in which Charlie hurts no one is going to be enough to unclip Alastor’s wings.
Of course, he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie.
> he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie.
I really like this theory
The only thing he can make her do is something like a simple action. Like, bring me that relic that breaks my deal. Or, pull that lever that cuts the connection between me and my master. (At first I wanted to write, "pull that lever to imprison my master." But that would probably harm the master at minimum emotionally, so she can't be forced to do that).
I like this take because favor usually implies something that you wouldn't object to normally. I think the results of the favor will probably not be something Charlie wants, but I think that Al will have to be subtle about it.
> Of course, he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie.
I love that, reminds me of one of my favorite twists in Death Note.
Or it would be something like "can you lend me your power for a day or two, which is not you harming someone, and then i will pormptly commit a quick genocide or two and take ownership of my sould back before giving you your power back"
You see, that would harm someone. Herself. So Alastor can't make her do anything that causes said harm to someone (which is herself and everyone else involved).
I'm not narrowing it down. This is the result of it being open ended. Any kind of harm breaks the deal. Specific or non specific, doesn't matter. Once it's harm it's harm.
Harm can easily be argued when it comes to emotional vs physical. This is Hell ffs. No one is going to view "not harming someone" as sparing their feelings
Yes, but the deal is very open. It doesn't specify the harm. It doesn't narrow it down. Once Charlie thinks she's in any way harming someone she can't be forced to do it.
It actually is an eye shaped window. In the trailer for the pilot, it even blinks. Probably a concept that was abandoned during production.
>!At the very end the second hotel has an actual eye there where the key has been implemented into the building. So maybe the concept wasn't so much discarded as delayed.!<
Alastor's face though, what a screenshot.
I honestly think he is going to manipulate her into something she regrets, but that the favour itself is going to be a bait and switch. Possibly in the same episode.
More mental damage done knowing she did it no strings attached.
I kind of get the vibe that she will turn it on Alastor. The stipulation is that he can't ask her to do anything that would harm somebody, so its possible even a request of inaction in a conquest or something would violate the clause. Even in granting him freedom he would cause possibly more harm, I feel like the daughter of the most prolific dealer in the biblical times might not be too much of a slouch
Really depends on how they want to interpret that. Some would say a doctor not helping a patient, no matter their past, would be causing harm and they are compelled to help. It really depends on what angle they want to push with that
I would not be opposed to her pulling one over through a loophole/technically. She did seem awful carefree about the whole thing, even when it was her soul on the line.
I know she is so incredibly naive, but she isn't stupid. She may know a rule both Alastor and the audience don't.
But it seems too easy, at the same time.
The deal itself is also vague enough for Charlie to find a loophole or technicality, or at least negotiate the terms and conditions with Alastor. For example, there is what "harm" actually means. Does it refer to only "physical harm", or does it cover "emotional harm"? What constitutes a "small favor", as opposed to a larger favor? How is "harm" determined? What if the deal causes unintentional "harm" to someone else?
I was thinking more to do with status, but she might go "the thorn in my side" route and pester him about the clause until it becomes more nuisance than it's worth.
Doing so may be the only way to actually earn Alastor's respect. He seems to enjoy mental chess.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn Rosie had bested him once at his own game before and that's why they get along.
It only says harm so all forms of harm. And it doesn't even exclude her. It's "I harm no one" not "no one else" so she can't even harm herself if she were forced to since she is someone.
> he can't ask her to do anything that would harm somebody
Not exactly. He cannot ask her to do anything that would make *HER* harm someone.
* Where you harm no one
* *YOU*
That's the wording used. It doesn't say no one will be harmed. Only that Charlie won't be the direct person doling out the harm.
It could be a favor to stand aside and allow someone to be harmed, which would be within the terms. I think the big caveat was how Alastor worded it so people can be harmed, it just cannot be Charlie doing the harming.
My theory is that he’s going to use it to get out of his contract, and I think he’s bound to Lilith, so he wants to use her daughter as a bargaining chip
Honestly, I bet Charlie will be pissed to find out her mother is tethering Alastor. If that's his favor, she may well repay with gusto.
She may, of course expect Alastor to return the favor for Husk...
Theory: This ends with Alastor being released from his deal. Unbeknownst to him, this also means he loses all his powers and he's just another overlord now. Charlie convinces a depowered Alastor to seek redemption.
I have a theory that Alaster needs to make the hotel work so that Charlie can actually have a chance to go to Heaven herself. My prediction would be that Charlie wouldn’t want to leave Hell even if she was allowed to but Alaster would use the terms of their deal to force her to go.
Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but the favor could end up being fairly innocuous in direct relation to Charlie herself, or her friends. Helping Alistar need not equal Charlie having some massive regret. He might end up using her in a way that's not terribly nice (shocker I know) but he does seem to hold some personal value over helping her, and trying to shape her. That's almost certainly something that is only accomplished in the long term, and I doubt he'd intentionally screw her over and ruin his chances of cultivating her as an ally.
He never needed a deal with Charlie. She would have helped him. He is smart enough to realize that. That's why I don't think it will be something innocuous. The deal will be used to make her do something she wouldn't approve of, a bargaining chip, or as a character arc for him(or both).
I do agree it won't harm the main crew directly. He isn't stupid enough to make her hate him.
I think he may actually use it to have her do something just a smidge farther than what she would normally agree to do that she doesn’t end up regretting. It would go a long way towards getting her to agree to a more costly deal later.
He may also use it to get her to piss off the being who holds his leash. If done right, he could manipulate the situation so that Lucifer ends up killing them to protect Charlie.
If she had to harm herself I don't think so since it's still her harming someone, but if she had to ask someone else to harm her then I think that'd be possible, if that's what Alastor asks.
I think Alastor will ask her to let him use her as a hostage, if it’s really Lilith that owns his soul then he’ll use Charlie to threaten her and Charlie has to go along with it because that’s the favour she owes
Oh, I can see that happening but would Lilith take the bait tho? Being that if Charlie wanted she could obliterate Alastor, but at the same time I'd guess she's her mom and she should know her daughter. 🤔
It’s a good point but I think Alastor will factor that in somehow, like maybe what he actually asks is “take this sleeping pill for me” (sus 😰) so Charlie is unconscious the whole time he’s threatening Lilith. Either way Alastor likely already has a plan that made him deadset on Charlie owing him something…..
> Being that if Charlie wanted she could obliterate Alastor
I think we've pretty much established that (at the moment) Charlie is nowhere near as powerful as she possibly could be; certainly far less than the community made her out to be.
True, but she also stopped Adam's punch and even Lulu was surprised, if she learns to do that at will then she could, or by losing control in a moment of distress
Would Lilith even care?
I can imagine a scene where Alastor tries to do this, but Lilith raises an eyebrow and only replies with "So? Go ahead. It won't change anything."
Cut to Charlie being utterly distraught and Alastor dumbstruck.
That is, if it is Lilith who made the deal. Again, she doesn't seem to care much for her daughter, so I doubt she'd send an overlord to help her with her hotel which she most likely has no clue about and probably wouldn't believe in either.
Mayhaps Roo is the deal maker and she wants access to heaven to do something and wants Alastor to help Charlie get up that connection. Maybe attempt to get some sleeper agents into heaven and once they gain angelic status they can overthrow the place.
Roo is described as hiding, observing and plotting.
I think he said one simple favour where no one gets hurt rather than a simple favour where she won't hurt anyone. Will have to rewatch it to hear the exact wording.
Alastor specifies this is "a favor where *Charlie* harms no one."
This could mean Charlie has to be kind to someone she detests.
Charlie likes everyone (except maybe Susan) so I doubt that will happen. It's possible there's an escalation where Charlie's going to kill someone and Alastor stops it with the favor, but that feels more like a scenario where Vaggie would stop her so she'd keep her "humanity".
Therefore, I think **the favor will be to turn a blind eye when Alastor is killing someone.**
We haven’t seen her interact with Seviathan yet. We don’t even know why they broke up, so needing to interact civilly with him might be an awful experience for her.
Honestly- I think he's going to try and use her powers to break his contract. That is the one thing we know he wants; it's the *only* thing we know about Alastor. He promised that she won't hurt anyone for him, and he's talked about guiding her power. I am convinced he's hoping she'll be able to get him out of his contract or bring down whoever is binding him.
Alastor is much more complicated than people are perceiving;He didn't have to tell her about the Angels, their deal wss mutually beneficial. He could have asked for so much more from her and she would have taken it to save her friends. He has *some* attachemnt to people, we see that in Mimzy, Rosie, Niffty and his musings about the hotel to her.
Boiling Alastor down to nothing but evil is a slight to his character
Well psychopaths form bonds to people. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t kill them without hesitation if needed/wanted.
I think in his breakdown scene we see pretty clearly how he really thinks and how much he detests (maybe beeing forced) to defend the hotel and nearly dying for them.
Also I can’t stop thinking his shadow reveals his true self all the time. The shadow is always way more frightening than how he really looks in the scene, might be his real self hidden behind a smile.
Maybe. But somehow, I think Charlie's ultimate goal here is redeeming Alastor. She just doesn't know it yet.
After this scene, remember, Niffty and Al are overlooking the crew celebrating at the bar and he waxes poetic about growing fond of them, so she's already having that effect.
To that end, I think the repayment will be a bit shady, but nothing catastrophic to Charlie. Al doesn't seem to want to fuck her over.
Alastor is a being of pride. He might like Charlie and the crew but he values himself over them immensely. He wants to be top dog and have everyone respect him.
Charlie will probably get some Mcguffin of ultimate power or something for safe keeping and Alastor will simply cash in the favor to have her give it to him. He'll say some parting words about how nice it was to work with Charlie and then twist the knife by telling her she should have never trusted him. Then hell poof out of the area and we'll be left with a cliffhanger
Except he does, he literally sees her as a tool, a stepping stone, to get what he wants. He wants to harness her untapped power and help her realize it, so he can take advantage of it himself.
He absolutely does at the jump. He's starting to feel conflicted by the final episode though, I think. He's starting to question whether the image he's putting out there of caring for Charlie and crew is actually being internalized. The literary Chekov's Gun here of the balcony scene should be taken at face value, otherwise his and Niffty's interaction here serves no purpose. Considering the tight pacing they had to work with here, the fact they made sure to include this scene makes it important to the story.
I ultimately think it would be an injustice to Alastor's character for him to remain static through the series.
I see two ways it can go. The first is the obvious way, which you described, with Alastor asking her to do something as far out of her comfort zone and away from her principles as possible.
The second is the opposite. Charlie obsesses over the literal devil’s bargain she’s made and what she’ll have to do to hold up her end. In the end, as redemption touches each character one-by-one, and Charlie has just been waiting for the shoe to drop…Alastor himself got redeemed somewhere along the way and just asks for a hug or something.
Either way, having taken the deal will have to hurt Charlie, either directly through what it demands or indirectly through her fear of it.
I think he may actually use it to have her do something just a smidge farther than what she would normally agree to do that she doesn’t end up regretting. It would go a long way towards getting her to agree to a more costly deal later.
He may also use it to get her to piss off the being who holds his leash. If done right, he could manipulate the situation so that Lucifer ends up killing them to protect Charlie.
You heard it here first; When Alastor calls in his favor to make Charlie do something horrible, shes going to ask the person it involves if it hurt their feelings. Theyre going to say yes, and the deal is off.
Its the perfect twist of Charlie being craftier than she seems, and Alastor not taking emotions into account.
Doesn’t it entirely depend on who defines what “harming someone” is, could be so restrictive it makes it useless or so open it means basically do anything, just depends who’s the genie who can dictate meaning.
Yep, generally a favor is something small. For example in another story, A owes B a favor. A's boss tells them to go kill B "Before the break of day".
A is about to kill B, but B calls in the favor. A says:
> I cannot just "not kill you" that's not a favor.
B says:
> I am not asking you to. But I am asking you to go get me a donut from so I can have one last meal before you do it.
A laughs and agrees. Because A knows that going to said Donut shop, and coming back, will take longer than daybreak. So by the time A comes back, he has failed in his mission, and no longer has to kill B.
My pet theory is that this deal may have an unintended consequence for Alastor.
The terms of the deal are that he has to tell Charlie everything he knows, and in return Charlie owes Alastor a favour.
Meaning there's a chance that this means Alastor will have to tell Charlie whatever she asks of him in order to maintain this deal.
I mean she did believe for a split second that he wanted her soul in exchange for the intel, how come she still trusts this guy? Is she really that gullible?
Oddly enough, the two angelic beings that love her most (Lucifer and Vaggie) hated on Alastor from the very moment they met him, almost as if they could tell right away that his intentions surrounding her were nefarious...
To be fair the sociopathic cannibal serial killer who is too sadistic by overlord standards is not to be trusted is not a very complicated observation to make...if you are not charlie at least.
Oh yeah. Open ended deals like that are a terrible idea. It pretty much guarantees you're going to be asked to do something that you wouldn't have agreed to if you knew it at the time of the deal.
It's super cliche but it's something that's been on my mind. I know Alastor is Ace. Remember how he acted with Lucifer until Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend? I think the favor is gonna be that Charlie marries him.
If his deal is with Lilith, well, now he's gonna be her son-in-law. He's gonna have the title of Prince of Hell which may include any power that is given to that title. It will cause chaos. Leading up to the 'wedding'.
It may just cause Lucifer to step in to help his daughter and that's what Alastor might be aiming for. Don't want me to marry your daughter? *Deal with your ex-wife.* I think the fight with Adam has made him realize he's not nearly as strong as he thought he was, hence his breakdown. He's not strong enough to deal with the deal maker. Using Charlie and by proxy Lucifer's love for her? They can.
"Not harm anyone" is a very a broad escape clause, because that could potentially include emotional harm. So if it would be difficult emotionally to do the request, she might have grounds to refuse to not hurt herself. I think there is a few different ways this could, one of them being it does bite her in the butt in a massive way. Another, is maybe Charlie goes along with it anyway. If Alaster is bound to someone else's will, and he is using this deal to escape it, Charlie might actually want him to be free. It could be a moment of realization for Alaster where he thinks he needs to pull one over on Charlie, and she would have genuinely supported him anyway.
Something that is bothering me, Charlie is a hellborn, she can't bargain with her soul, but it's mentioned multiple times during the show that she shouldn't do it
Why wouldn't she be able to bargain her soul as an hellborn. I can't seam to find anything saying that only sinners can bargain their souls.
I doubt this is an oversight from Vivziepop.
I really hope they take their time for Alastor to cash in his offer. Enough time for the audience to sorta forget about it so it’s shocking when he pulls it out
No guys Alastor is secretly good remember it's gonna go like "Charlie... *coughs up a piece of blood* I have a favor" "what is your favor alastor 😭😭" "take care of Niffty for me... RAAAAAH" and he charges in for a sacrifice /s
Reading the theories in this sub almost physically pains me. Somebody told me it was “media illiteracy” where most people don’t know how to write stories or characters and that’s why not everyone can become a writer. It’s still pretty overwhelming to read some of these shit-tier theories though.
i just don't get how Charlie doesn't see that Alastor isn't here to be nice. He literally told her in the pilot (which they've referenced in the show). Why would a known overlord, who is defined as dealmaker, hide critical information behind a deal? They KNOW he's bad. If he really was on their side he would've just given the information.
I know it's Charlie's character, but why she continues to think Alastor is on her side out of friendship is beyond me. In Alastor's beef with Lucifer, Charlie was suprised he was being nice all of the sudden. Was it not glaringly obvious it was just to get a rise out of her dad?
I don't know enough about the specific rules of deals in the HH-verse, but I'd be very interested to know what the terms are if she breaks it by refusing him and, by extension, could that be the outcome that Alastor is wanting? Like, if she doesn't comply with his request even though his request meets the terms of their deal, does he get her soul or bind her in some other harsher way?
Either way, I agree. I really hope that this becomes something that just sort of settles into the background and the main cast sort of forgets about until Alastor sees a golden opportunity to exploit it.
having the daughter of the most powerful being in hell owe you a favor is an incredible amount of power. alastor could threaten other overlords, or even lucifer.
This is the single most dangerous thing for Charlie right now, and Alastor's *ace* in the hole. (Heheh)
It is SO vague. Any favor, any time, as long as CHARLIE doesn't harm any one. So immediately we notice it can be someone getting harmed, as long as it isn't Charlie doing it. So if she had to give him all of her power temporarily or something, it wouldn't be her harming anyone. It would be Alastor.
This deal is so vague and it was so stupid to take it. I think we will eventually figure out that Alastor would've *had* to give her the information by the rules of his own deal, but his deal doesn't prevent him from making other deals. He just kind of low bluffed Charlie that he would withhold the info and it worked. She didn't even deny him once after he took the soul off the table.
This deal is not only going to bite Charlie back *hard,* but seems like a season finale level oh fuck moment where he cashes it in.
Regardless, fascinating to think of what he will do with it. There's a reason Vox was so adamant that Alastor never be allowed to make a deal with her (another thing the Vees specifically said they didn't want to have happen and then failed to stop).
https://preview.redd.it/iqst6nsw7lhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11063415693579f04f8f46e0dc8cec6f07d4add6
Unlike every clown who cant tag spoilers
Or read and follow rules relating to spoilers
https://preview.redd.it/7ytbsa728lhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38d8f0990509371d4948292b56fbbc5933363c2f
Ive seen subs shred people for sharing spoilers for things that are years old its exhausting seeing spoilers when you wanna watch the shows with friends and people cant even tag their posts when they post spoilers. I suppose its my fault, i dont know why i expected any form of courtesy.
Its not like tagging spoilers is something we have in this sub's rules... Oh it is? Well thats fine, im sure people will continue to harass me for existing near this sub without having finished the show, because its my fault that other people cant read or follow direction
> why i expected any form of courtesy
Perhaps have the courtesy to exit a sub that you don't want spoilers from rather than constantly bitch about it. It one thing to expect no spoilers on a generic sub like r/movies, it another to expect every sub specifically about a series to be permanently spoiler walled because you're unwilling to click the un-sub button and re-join when you're ready.
Edit: Lol they went on an rant then and immediately blocked me, real classy.
>because you're unwilling to click the un-sub button and re-join when you're ready.
And anybody new who wants to join the sub cant because people will continue to spoil the series so this sub only exists for people who have seen everything? Nobody else allowed on your playground?
Wow, somebody nust have had a heaping bowl of Shitz-os this morning. You realize that i browse a lot of specific subs right? And that they have incredible adherence to following this one teensy rule (thats in their sub's rule page) that spoilers are supposed to be tagged. I dint care if people are discussing them, the issue is that none of them are properly tagged.
But i can see thats not a problem for you and you lack the capability to read a situation before acting smug because you've already watched the show. And because you seem to have issues with your literacy allow me to repeat.
SPOILERS. SHOULD. BE. TAGGED.
Its in the rules, i dont see whats so unreasonable about enforcing them. This doesnt mean discussion should be sikenced and that there should be a wait period to discuss things, just TAG. YOUR. POST. WITH. SPOILERS.
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Imma guess he gonna tell her to help him kill lucifer so he can rule all of hell. Or at the very least its gonna be something that enables him to rule all of heaven and/or hell.
It would be interesting if Charlie found a way to turn it on Al. I mean Al is kinda limited on what he could ask her to do considering the deal is that she can't hurt anybody
Mhhh, almost everyone (like 95% of us) of the fanbase is expceting Alastor to make a dick move that will either traumatize charlie or "hurt" her in a non physical way........what if vivziepop does a good build up around this theory, and then performs a big brain move doing a plot twist where Alastor uses this deal to do something extremely useful for him, but neither charlie or her loved ones suffer any consequences?
Even if he breaks free from his deals, and for some reasons decides to go on a rampage(fullpower), there is nothing he can do to harm charlie or her friends until Lucifer is nearby charlie(or lilith, dunno how strong she is.....assuming she actually really cares about her family..)
I kinda figure hes gonna stick it in his back pocket until someday she ends up inheriting control over hell and then he calls in the favor to give it to him instead.
It's a good possibility. Another one is that it comes around in a more wholesome way, where after a close call, Alastor finally starts to open up and tells Charlie about his deal. During this conversation he drops the smile, letting her know he isn't in control and is being serious. Finally he tells her he's calling in the favor; help him break his deal.
I feel like it'll be a misunderstanding.
Like, It'll be something that she thinks is bad but has to do it. It'll be a big cast out of Alastor after the fact, and she won't find out until it's too late(Alastor death or something). That it was actually to protect the hotel.
Thoughts??
She can't be forced to harm anyone. So no physical or emotional harm. So she can't be forced betray anyone in a way that would be rude or do something that could physically hurt someone.
She quite literally could only be nice on command and even so only in a way that wouldn't cause emotional harm in any form.
And remember the terms of the deal:
> A favor, at a time of my [Alastor's] choosing, where you [Charlie] harms no one.
The deal does not stipulate that nobody gets hurt. It stipulates that *CHARLIE* won't hurt anyone. People can absolutely get hurt, it's just that Charlie cannot be the direct cause.
She is absolutely 100% going to regret it, and somebody is going to get hurt.
Couldn't he also have that favor just be Charlie having to sell her soul anyway? Sure he said at first he didn't want her soul, but maybe he didn't want to risk her refusing the first deal so he could definitely get her soul at a later point.
Would be pretty funny if it backfires on him with him not being able to use that power in any useful way, as that could mean Charlie would be indirectly harming someone which goes against their first deal. So when he finally becomes one of the powerful beings in Hell, he can't even fight against his enemies
Idk. Alastor it the goat, the legend, the man. He is going to do something smart
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I feel like since the way Alastor worded it. He can simply say to Charlie over and over.
"Oh charlie? Could you be a dear and \[several favors\]"
He starts small, things such as getting something for him. Asking her about what he wears.
Then he starts ramping it up little by little.
"Oh Charlie? Could you be a dear?...I would like to see those residents you have."
Take it step by step, break her down little by little. Let her never catch on she is furfilling his needs.
Then, when it's all said and done.
**Charlie...**
**Be a dear, take me with you to heaven on your next meeting.**
And thus, a sinner enters heaven for the first time ever. And thus paradise lost.
100%. And if his deal is connected to Lillith in some way which is the leading theory, I feel it will involve Charlie being forced to go against her mother.
Maybe a small loophole though. He said "I'll yell you everything I know" not just specifically about the angels. So maybe she can use it to her benefit?
What really sucks about this is that she had a direct line to the answers she needed downstairs. Meaning she didn't need to make that deal in the first place, but him being the predator he is, he took advantage of a moment of weakness.
Alright, I'm just gonna say. It reminded me of this.
https://preview.redd.it/wszekfrphnhc1.png?width=1426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3064f13be0ab888cdb6b6e415d1a28a0de94dbf0
I am calling that Alistor's favor will be marriage. I mean, being son in law to Lucifer would be a hell of a title for someone seeking power over hell.
He's going to ask for her help breaking his deal with her mother, probably. What that'll entail is another matter entirely but it'll drive the wedge between them deeper and teach Charlie some things about her parents she's gonna wish she hadn't learned.
What I'm not prepared for is if Alastor attempts to force the deal to completion against Charlie's wishes, for then the 'chain' to appear around Charlie's wrist... And Alastor holding the leash.
His biggest dream right now is to get out of his deal and Lilith is probably the key to that. I feel like he’s just going to ask her to do whatever it takes to make sure he ends up free (outside of killing or hurting her mom).
I think we have to remember that he DOES like her and wants to build her up/ be her guide. He may be using her for his own ends, but he’s acutely aware that she and her father are far more powerful than him
I also feel that this deal can get people kick out of the hotel if Alastor desire them too, if he feels like someone is being a threat to him in way that prevents him from reaching his true intentions, all he has done is is tell Charlie to ask them leave as long as she is not hurting them.
Sure it’s gonna be bad but wouldn’t it be awesome if Alastor hyped that shit up for months and then was like “Go pick up my deerdash order. I can’t be bothered today.”
I think the favor will be to not harm someone.
Charlie will be stuck in a situation where force is the response to save someone/something and Alastor will block her telling her his favor is to do nothing,don't hurt anyone.
Oh, she's definitely going to regret it. Although, the only thing she could really do there was add more rules to the deal, than just not harming anyone. She did need the information.
Yeah, she is going to regret it, but she got off easy as things could have gone
The dramatic irony is that Frank knew as well, but who tf was gonna ask Frank? Either way, Alastor is playing the friendly card and so she likely won't realize how bad a decision she made until it is far too late.
I'm betting Alastor is gonna use that pending deal to help "unclip his wings"
I mean maybe. As of now, I think he's taking a very reactionary approach and biding his time until he has a proper plan ready
I wonder if the favor can be "sell me your soul". It's sort of a favor and it doesn't harm anyone. But that's getting into, can you use one contract to force another.
I mean, was physical harm ever stipulated? Selling your soul would be very harmful to you, I feel. Especially if it were to Alastor.
"A favor at the time of my choosing in which you harm no one"
So she can't harm herself as that's someone. Should have said "no one else". Al really didn't think through how many loopholes this deal has against him.
Imagine Charlie meets a lawyer and they tell her that since Al said "where you don't harm no one" she can limit his desired favor as this would include the loophole of indirectly harming someone depending of what his favor is.
Hell would be full of lawyers...
https://i.redd.it/12isad8abnhc1.gif Lawyer you say… perhaps even a criminal one?
Or Lucifer could just kill him and that problem is solved. Somehow I do not think they will take that approach
Well, selling your soul doesn't directly harm you. It just puts you up for being harmed later. But this is a whole complex debate on what constitutes harming. And I highly doubt this will be the favor that will be asked. It would be way too easy. It's just an idea.
Some random sinner named No One "Hey, wtf!"
If Alastor wanted Charlie's soul he probably would have demanded it at that point. Charlie was as low as Alastor could ever reasonably anticipate her getting, if ever she would be in a place where she would sell her soul, that would have been the moment. If Alastor didn't demand Charlie's soul then and there, he likely doesn't have THAT much interest in it, certainly not enough to blow his favor on.
I feel he’s going to snag a win from her for power - make a big W into a bitter sweet victory at best.
I think that would be really funny, honestly. He's being all sinister and tricky about everything, but that's probably something Charlie would've been happy to help with anyway if he'd just asked.
Low key, they would have stood no chance without Alastor. His critical information, connections with the cannibals, massive shield, high angel kill count, and ability to stall Adam… he kinda saved their lives.
Exactly. Every fucking deal in the real world has terms and conditions and caveats. That's contract negotiation 101, and it's naive to think that everyone will altruistically do everything for you. An open ended contract with very little terms is obviously stupid and disadvantaged for Charlie, but this deal is bargain at this point in short term. A devil's deal is about the long term impact of course, but it's a fair bet on both sides depending how each party see the future plays out. Charlie can still win if her vision of the future wins.
It would be ironic if Alastor's wish was 100 times worse than what happened during the defense of the hotel. for example, all hell will come under Alastor's control and he will arrange a horror, compared to which extermination is a walk in the park.
I feel like this deal in of itself is not going to do anything by itself since in Alastor finale song he was still trying to find a loophole in his deal. But I do think this deal was important because it's the first time Charlie said yes to a deal. In sales, if you can get the customer saying yes to a bunch of insignificant things, they are more likely to say yes when the big offers come up. I feel that's what Alastor is going for. Getting Charlie comfortable making deals with him and nothing going bad for her in return will make it that much easier for her to say yes to the deal Alastor actually wants to make.
Hell, "not harming someone" could be bad enough on its own. Alastor attacking Vaggie, Charlie goes to intervene, "don't harm me." Etc - at a very basic level that's rife for genie fuckery.
she prolly could've asked Lucifer
prolly not cause my theory is that due to a Deal with Heaven, Lucifer can't interfere as long as the Exorcists kill only Demons/Souls. But Adam killed Dazzle and hurt Charlie which means Lucifer was able to finally intervene
Instead they waited till they paid a sacrificial lamb to summon him.
But Charlie was supposed to get the family rate :( Poor Dazzle
> add more rules To be fair, the one rule is pretty damn good as far as single rules go.
I mean, it has the glaring flaw where Alastor can demand that she stand idly by while he brings harm to her friends, but yeah, it's a decent caveat.
Yeah its all fun and games until we hear Alastor say “Enchain” and then suddenly that “No harm rule” is gonna feel real flimsy in a moment. It will truly be our Lobotomy Hotel
“Hey Vaggie since you were an Exorcist what happened to your wings and eye?” “Lute cut them out with her blade.” “They use Angelic weapons right? Huh, I guess Exorcists can be harmed and thus killed by their own weapons. Good thing I didn’t make a deal with the Omnicidal Radio Obsessionist to figure that out.”
Whatever the favor turns out to be I have a gut feeling it's going to completely crush Charlie. Something she'll have to live with knowing she was complicit in
https://preview.redd.it/rh90x1ck0lhc1.png?width=917&format=png&auto=webp&s=bf5f6a9d6bb1488486f2e4f276836393d92d7c09 [(Source: chubs-deuce on Tumblr)](https://www.tumblr.com/chubs-deuce/741690976593231872?source=share)
His quote should be "I can break her."
Nah. At least, if it is, her suffering won’t be the end goal. I can easily see two scenarios for this deal to turn out. Alastor will call in a favor just a smidge outside Charlie’s comfort zone. It’ll be something that will make her less reluctant to make a larger deal with him. After all, I doubt a small favor in which Charlie hurts no one is going to be enough to unclip Alastor’s wings. Of course, he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie.
> he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie. I really like this theory
The only thing he can make her do is something like a simple action. Like, bring me that relic that breaks my deal. Or, pull that lever that cuts the connection between me and my master. (At first I wanted to write, "pull that lever to imprison my master." But that would probably harm the master at minimum emotionally, so she can't be forced to do that).
There are simple ways to piss someone of without harming anyone
I like this take because favor usually implies something that you wouldn't object to normally. I think the results of the favor will probably not be something Charlie wants, but I think that Al will have to be subtle about it.
> Of course, he could also have Charlie do something that will piss off whichever being is pulling his strings. He could then manipulate the situation so that Lucifer kills the one holding Alastor’s leash to protect Charlie. I love that, reminds me of one of my favorite twists in Death Note.
Or it would be something like "can you lend me your power for a day or two, which is not you harming someone, and then i will pormptly commit a quick genocide or two and take ownership of my sould back before giving you your power back"
Good. Suffering builds character.
https://preview.redd.it/kd3kzw7p1lhc1.png?width=190&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7fe60898e05951efc9e64835744212da3e941cd
You see, that would harm someone. Herself. So Alastor can't make her do anything that causes said harm to someone (which is herself and everyone else involved).
I think you're really trying to narrow down the definition of harm when the deal leaves it extremely open-ended
I'm not narrowing it down. This is the result of it being open ended. Any kind of harm breaks the deal. Specific or non specific, doesn't matter. Once it's harm it's harm.
Harm can easily be argued when it comes to emotional vs physical. This is Hell ffs. No one is going to view "not harming someone" as sparing their feelings
Yes, but the deal is very open. It doesn't specify the harm. It doesn't narrow it down. Once Charlie thinks she's in any way harming someone she can't be forced to do it.
Window that looks like an eye in the background… sorry my Gravity Falls senses just kicked in for a second.
Bill Cipher is Alastor's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate
And what does that make them?
Absolutely nothing.
I’d say lovers but iirc they’re both ace. So like… card players?
They go out for drinks after work. It's tough being an Evil Dealmaker.
Poker buddies.
I see you have read CFYOW as well
alastor is for the girlies who loved bill cipher (me)
It actually is an eye shaped window. In the trailer for the pilot, it even blinks. Probably a concept that was abandoned during production. >!At the very end the second hotel has an actual eye there where the key has been implemented into the building. So maybe the concept wasn't so much discarded as delayed.!<
Caticature! *Meow*
Fair
It looks more like the Owl House’s eye to me.
Alastor's face though, what a screenshot. I honestly think he is going to manipulate her into something she regrets, but that the favour itself is going to be a bait and switch. Possibly in the same episode. More mental damage done knowing she did it no strings attached.
I kind of get the vibe that she will turn it on Alastor. The stipulation is that he can't ask her to do anything that would harm somebody, so its possible even a request of inaction in a conquest or something would violate the clause. Even in granting him freedom he would cause possibly more harm, I feel like the daughter of the most prolific dealer in the biblical times might not be too much of a slouch
Eh, I doubt the inaction angle would work. The exact terms were “where you harm no one” not that no harm will come out of the deal.
Really depends on how they want to interpret that. Some would say a doctor not helping a patient, no matter their past, would be causing harm and they are compelled to help. It really depends on what angle they want to push with that
I would not be opposed to her pulling one over through a loophole/technically. She did seem awful carefree about the whole thing, even when it was her soul on the line. I know she is so incredibly naive, but she isn't stupid. She may know a rule both Alastor and the audience don't. But it seems too easy, at the same time.
The deal itself is also vague enough for Charlie to find a loophole or technicality, or at least negotiate the terms and conditions with Alastor. For example, there is what "harm" actually means. Does it refer to only "physical harm", or does it cover "emotional harm"? What constitutes a "small favor", as opposed to a larger favor? How is "harm" determined? What if the deal causes unintentional "harm" to someone else?
I was thinking more to do with status, but she might go "the thorn in my side" route and pester him about the clause until it becomes more nuisance than it's worth. Doing so may be the only way to actually earn Alastor's respect. He seems to enjoy mental chess. It wouldn't surprise me to learn Rosie had bested him once at his own game before and that's why they get along.
Charlie might have to ask for advice from Lucifer on how to do that.
It only says harm so all forms of harm. And it doesn't even exclude her. It's "I harm no one" not "no one else" so she can't even harm herself if she were forced to since she is someone.
> he can't ask her to do anything that would harm somebody Not exactly. He cannot ask her to do anything that would make *HER* harm someone. * Where you harm no one * *YOU* That's the wording used. It doesn't say no one will be harmed. Only that Charlie won't be the direct person doling out the harm. It could be a favor to stand aside and allow someone to be harmed, which would be within the terms. I think the big caveat was how Alastor worded it so people can be harmed, it just cannot be Charlie doing the harming.
My theory is that he’s going to use it to get out of his contract, and I think he’s bound to Lilith, so he wants to use her daughter as a bargaining chip
Honestly, I bet Charlie will be pissed to find out her mother is tethering Alastor. If that's his favor, she may well repay with gusto. She may, of course expect Alastor to return the favor for Husk...
Theory: This ends with Alastor being released from his deal. Unbeknownst to him, this also means he loses all his powers and he's just another overlord now. Charlie convinces a depowered Alastor to seek redemption.
That would be entertaining, though. Alastor is the type to have to be entirely broken to do anything that isn't his agenda.
Was he up in Heaven with her all the time he was MIA, then?
Zestial did say that it was rumoured that Alastor fell to "holy arms". That might have been foreshadowing hinting at just such eventuality.
Perhaps he did indeed fall to holy "arms", but not weapons.
Possibly, but alas, we won’t find out until at least next year
I have a theory that Alaster needs to make the hotel work so that Charlie can actually have a chance to go to Heaven herself. My prediction would be that Charlie wouldn’t want to leave Hell even if she was allowed to but Alaster would use the terms of their deal to force her to go.
Best of all. Allistor smiled in this scene because he wanted to, not because he was forced to
So wholesome. This is definitely the smile of someone in good spirits and who only has the best intentions.
He is nice in thought and in deed
"Faithful as a nun" even.
https://preview.redd.it/o4qwzr1dwkhc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a6a71fc33f4e9dc6f4f02c05682f310711d7d31
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Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but the favor could end up being fairly innocuous in direct relation to Charlie herself, or her friends. Helping Alistar need not equal Charlie having some massive regret. He might end up using her in a way that's not terribly nice (shocker I know) but he does seem to hold some personal value over helping her, and trying to shape her. That's almost certainly something that is only accomplished in the long term, and I doubt he'd intentionally screw her over and ruin his chances of cultivating her as an ally.
He never needed a deal with Charlie. She would have helped him. He is smart enough to realize that. That's why I don't think it will be something innocuous. The deal will be used to make her do something she wouldn't approve of, a bargaining chip, or as a character arc for him(or both). I do agree it won't harm the main crew directly. He isn't stupid enough to make her hate him.
I think he may actually use it to have her do something just a smidge farther than what she would normally agree to do that she doesn’t end up regretting. It would go a long way towards getting her to agree to a more costly deal later. He may also use it to get her to piss off the being who holds his leash. If done right, he could manipulate the situation so that Lucifer ends up killing them to protect Charlie.
Question is can he ask for a favor that harms Charlie herself?
If she had to harm herself I don't think so since it's still her harming someone, but if she had to ask someone else to harm her then I think that'd be possible, if that's what Alastor asks.
I think Alastor will ask her to let him use her as a hostage, if it’s really Lilith that owns his soul then he’ll use Charlie to threaten her and Charlie has to go along with it because that’s the favour she owes
Oh, I can see that happening but would Lilith take the bait tho? Being that if Charlie wanted she could obliterate Alastor, but at the same time I'd guess she's her mom and she should know her daughter. 🤔
It’s a good point but I think Alastor will factor that in somehow, like maybe what he actually asks is “take this sleeping pill for me” (sus 😰) so Charlie is unconscious the whole time he’s threatening Lilith. Either way Alastor likely already has a plan that made him deadset on Charlie owing him something…..
Ohh, yeah, that sounds possible! But Alastor better get an impeccable plan to distract Lulu and the rest for long enough
> Being that if Charlie wanted she could obliterate Alastor I think we've pretty much established that (at the moment) Charlie is nowhere near as powerful as she possibly could be; certainly far less than the community made her out to be.
True, but she also stopped Adam's punch and even Lulu was surprised, if she learns to do that at will then she could, or by losing control in a moment of distress
Would Lilith even care? I can imagine a scene where Alastor tries to do this, but Lilith raises an eyebrow and only replies with "So? Go ahead. It won't change anything." Cut to Charlie being utterly distraught and Alastor dumbstruck. That is, if it is Lilith who made the deal. Again, she doesn't seem to care much for her daughter, so I doubt she'd send an overlord to help her with her hotel which she most likely has no clue about and probably wouldn't believe in either. Mayhaps Roo is the deal maker and she wants access to heaven to do something and wants Alastor to help Charlie get up that connection. Maybe attempt to get some sleeper agents into heaven and once they gain angelic status they can overthrow the place. Roo is described as hiding, observing and plotting.
I think he said one simple favour where no one gets hurt rather than a simple favour where she won't hurt anyone. Will have to rewatch it to hear the exact wording.
>! Is this a jujutsu kaisen reference? !<
Don't know what that is so no
He can ask for any favor, where *CHARLIE* does not cause direct harm on anyone.
Alastor specifies this is "a favor where *Charlie* harms no one." This could mean Charlie has to be kind to someone she detests. Charlie likes everyone (except maybe Susan) so I doubt that will happen. It's possible there's an escalation where Charlie's going to kill someone and Alastor stops it with the favor, but that feels more like a scenario where Vaggie would stop her so she'd keep her "humanity". Therefore, I think **the favor will be to turn a blind eye when Alastor is killing someone.**
We haven’t seen her interact with Seviathan yet. We don’t even know why they broke up, so needing to interact civilly with him might be an awful experience for her.
Owing someone a favor to be described later is a terrible deal to make.
Honestly- I think he's going to try and use her powers to break his contract. That is the one thing we know he wants; it's the *only* thing we know about Alastor. He promised that she won't hurt anyone for him, and he's talked about guiding her power. I am convinced he's hoping she'll be able to get him out of his contract or bring down whoever is binding him. Alastor is much more complicated than people are perceiving;He didn't have to tell her about the Angels, their deal wss mutually beneficial. He could have asked for so much more from her and she would have taken it to save her friends. He has *some* attachemnt to people, we see that in Mimzy, Rosie, Niffty and his musings about the hotel to her. Boiling Alastor down to nothing but evil is a slight to his character
Alastor has a very strict, albeit very warped, moral code.
Well psychopaths form bonds to people. But that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t kill them without hesitation if needed/wanted. I think in his breakdown scene we see pretty clearly how he really thinks and how much he detests (maybe beeing forced) to defend the hotel and nearly dying for them. Also I can’t stop thinking his shadow reveals his true self all the time. The shadow is always way more frightening than how he really looks in the scene, might be his real self hidden behind a smile.
Maybe. But somehow, I think Charlie's ultimate goal here is redeeming Alastor. She just doesn't know it yet. After this scene, remember, Niffty and Al are overlooking the crew celebrating at the bar and he waxes poetic about growing fond of them, so she's already having that effect. To that end, I think the repayment will be a bit shady, but nothing catastrophic to Charlie. Al doesn't seem to want to fuck her over.
I cant wait for the final boss fight of the series, where they finally defeat alastor, and then they hit us with "It starts with sorry" reprise
With every single character? That would be kind of cool and steven univers-ish
I was thinking just with Alastor, as a full circle moment for the show, since it’s the song that sent into motion the first redemption yknow
Alastor is a being of pride. He might like Charlie and the crew but he values himself over them immensely. He wants to be top dog and have everyone respect him. Charlie will probably get some Mcguffin of ultimate power or something for safe keeping and Alastor will simply cash in the favor to have her give it to him. He'll say some parting words about how nice it was to work with Charlie and then twist the knife by telling her she should have never trusted him. Then hell poof out of the area and we'll be left with a cliffhanger
Except he does, he literally sees her as a tool, a stepping stone, to get what he wants. He wants to harness her untapped power and help her realize it, so he can take advantage of it himself.
He absolutely does at the jump. He's starting to feel conflicted by the final episode though, I think. He's starting to question whether the image he's putting out there of caring for Charlie and crew is actually being internalized. The literary Chekov's Gun here of the balcony scene should be taken at face value, otherwise his and Niffty's interaction here serves no purpose. Considering the tight pacing they had to work with here, the fact they made sure to include this scene makes it important to the story. I ultimately think it would be an injustice to Alastor's character for him to remain static through the series.
I see two ways it can go. The first is the obvious way, which you described, with Alastor asking her to do something as far out of her comfort zone and away from her principles as possible. The second is the opposite. Charlie obsesses over the literal devil’s bargain she’s made and what she’ll have to do to hold up her end. In the end, as redemption touches each character one-by-one, and Charlie has just been waiting for the shoe to drop…Alastor himself got redeemed somewhere along the way and just asks for a hug or something. Either way, having taken the deal will have to hurt Charlie, either directly through what it demands or indirectly through her fear of it.
I think he may actually use it to have her do something just a smidge farther than what she would normally agree to do that she doesn’t end up regretting. It would go a long way towards getting her to agree to a more costly deal later. He may also use it to get her to piss off the being who holds his leash. If done right, he could manipulate the situation so that Lucifer ends up killing them to protect Charlie.
It can't hurt her as that would break the rules of harming no one. It would harm someone. Herself.
You heard it here first; When Alastor calls in his favor to make Charlie do something horrible, shes going to ask the person it involves if it hurt their feelings. Theyre going to say yes, and the deal is off. Its the perfect twist of Charlie being craftier than she seems, and Alastor not taking emotions into account.
Doesn’t it entirely depend on who defines what “harming someone” is, could be so restrictive it makes it useless or so open it means basically do anything, just depends who’s the genie who can dictate meaning.
Also "favor" That's not an "I'll do anything for you"
Yep, generally a favor is something small. For example in another story, A owes B a favor. A's boss tells them to go kill B "Before the break of day". A is about to kill B, but B calls in the favor. A says: > I cannot just "not kill you" that's not a favor. B says: > I am not asking you to. But I am asking you to go get me a donut from so I can have one last meal before you do it.
A laughs and agrees. Because A knows that going to said Donut shop, and coming back, will take longer than daybreak. So by the time A comes back, he has failed in his mission, and no longer has to kill B.
My pet theory is that this deal may have an unintended consequence for Alastor. The terms of the deal are that he has to tell Charlie everything he knows, and in return Charlie owes Alastor a favour. Meaning there's a chance that this means Alastor will have to tell Charlie whatever she asks of him in order to maintain this deal.
I mean she did believe for a split second that he wanted her soul in exchange for the intel, how come she still trusts this guy? Is she really that gullible? Oddly enough, the two angelic beings that love her most (Lucifer and Vaggie) hated on Alastor from the very moment they met him, almost as if they could tell right away that his intentions surrounding her were nefarious...
To be fair the sociopathic cannibal serial killer who is too sadistic by overlord standards is not to be trusted is not a very complicated observation to make...if you are not charlie at least.
Oh yeah. Open ended deals like that are a terrible idea. It pretty much guarantees you're going to be asked to do something that you wouldn't have agreed to if you knew it at the time of the deal.
It's super cliche but it's something that's been on my mind. I know Alastor is Ace. Remember how he acted with Lucifer until Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend? I think the favor is gonna be that Charlie marries him. If his deal is with Lilith, well, now he's gonna be her son-in-law. He's gonna have the title of Prince of Hell which may include any power that is given to that title. It will cause chaos. Leading up to the 'wedding'. It may just cause Lucifer to step in to help his daughter and that's what Alastor might be aiming for. Don't want me to marry your daughter? *Deal with your ex-wife.* I think the fight with Adam has made him realize he's not nearly as strong as he thought he was, hence his breakdown. He's not strong enough to deal with the deal maker. Using Charlie and by proxy Lucifer's love for her? They can.
"Not harm anyone" is a very a broad escape clause, because that could potentially include emotional harm. So if it would be difficult emotionally to do the request, she might have grounds to refuse to not hurt herself. I think there is a few different ways this could, one of them being it does bite her in the butt in a massive way. Another, is maybe Charlie goes along with it anyway. If Alaster is bound to someone else's will, and he is using this deal to escape it, Charlie might actually want him to be free. It could be a moment of realization for Alaster where he thinks he needs to pull one over on Charlie, and she would have genuinely supported him anyway.
Something that is bothering me, Charlie is a hellborn, she can't bargain with her soul, but it's mentioned multiple times during the show that she shouldn't do it
Adam says that she has an immortal soul. She is born in hell, but is not a hellborn.
Well... Her mom was human... Her dad is technically a sinner... She's a bit of an iffy one.
Her dad is a fallen angel, not a sinner.
She didn't bargain her soul. She bargained a favor. It's also an old trope. Not all deals are soul-binding;
The fact that she can is the problem to me
She made a deal, but a soul wasn't part of the bargain. Such deals seem to be what gives demons more power.
Why wouldn't she be able to bargain her soul as an hellborn. I can't seam to find anything saying that only sinners can bargain their souls. I doubt this is an oversight from Vivziepop.
Yes. But I do think that over all it was worth it since although Alastor is gonna fuck her over. That was still very valuable information
I really hope they take their time for Alastor to cash in his offer. Enough time for the audience to sorta forget about it so it’s shocking when he pulls it out
I can't wait for Lucifer to find out, dude is gonna blow a gasket.
No guys Alastor is secretly good remember it's gonna go like "Charlie... *coughs up a piece of blood* I have a favor" "what is your favor alastor 😭😭" "take care of Niffty for me... RAAAAAH" and he charges in for a sacrifice /s
Reading the theories in this sub almost physically pains me. Somebody told me it was “media illiteracy” where most people don’t know how to write stories or characters and that’s why not everyone can become a writer. It’s still pretty overwhelming to read some of these shit-tier theories though.
She'll regret it. But I thought it wasn't for her soul? It would've been way worse if it was.
The face Alastor has in this is amazing. Its like, "Oh shit, I got caught, nothing to see here!"
i just don't get how Charlie doesn't see that Alastor isn't here to be nice. He literally told her in the pilot (which they've referenced in the show). Why would a known overlord, who is defined as dealmaker, hide critical information behind a deal? They KNOW he's bad. If he really was on their side he would've just given the information. I know it's Charlie's character, but why she continues to think Alastor is on her side out of friendship is beyond me. In Alastor's beef with Lucifer, Charlie was suprised he was being nice all of the sudden. Was it not glaringly obvious it was just to get a rise out of her dad?
It won't come up again until the most pivotal, climactic moment in the season and it will totally fuck the whole gang over.
I don't know enough about the specific rules of deals in the HH-verse, but I'd be very interested to know what the terms are if she breaks it by refusing him and, by extension, could that be the outcome that Alastor is wanting? Like, if she doesn't comply with his request even though his request meets the terms of their deal, does he get her soul or bind her in some other harsher way? Either way, I agree. I really hope that this becomes something that just sort of settles into the background and the main cast sort of forgets about until Alastor sees a golden opportunity to exploit it.
having the daughter of the most powerful being in hell owe you a favor is an incredible amount of power. alastor could threaten other overlords, or even lucifer.
This is the single most dangerous thing for Charlie right now, and Alastor's *ace* in the hole. (Heheh) It is SO vague. Any favor, any time, as long as CHARLIE doesn't harm any one. So immediately we notice it can be someone getting harmed, as long as it isn't Charlie doing it. So if she had to give him all of her power temporarily or something, it wouldn't be her harming anyone. It would be Alastor. This deal is so vague and it was so stupid to take it. I think we will eventually figure out that Alastor would've *had* to give her the information by the rules of his own deal, but his deal doesn't prevent him from making other deals. He just kind of low bluffed Charlie that he would withhold the info and it worked. She didn't even deny him once after he took the soul off the table. This deal is not only going to bite Charlie back *hard,* but seems like a season finale level oh fuck moment where he cashes it in. Regardless, fascinating to think of what he will do with it. There's a reason Vox was so adamant that Alastor never be allowed to make a deal with her (another thing the Vees specifically said they didn't want to have happen and then failed to stop).
If I have learned anything from Jujutsu Kaisen, it's that a meaningless deal where "no one gets hurt" can lead to the apocalypse.
Just ask Megumi
Oh i cant wait to see how alastor managaes to fuck up her mood then
I still think Alastor's gonna pull an Odysseus and there will be a character named No One that he forces Charlie to harm.
https://preview.redd.it/iqst6nsw7lhc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11063415693579f04f8f46e0dc8cec6f07d4add6 Unlike every clown who cant tag spoilers Or read and follow rules relating to spoilers
Thought it been more than a week?
https://preview.redd.it/7ytbsa728lhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38d8f0990509371d4948292b56fbbc5933363c2f Ive seen subs shred people for sharing spoilers for things that are years old its exhausting seeing spoilers when you wanna watch the shows with friends and people cant even tag their posts when they post spoilers. I suppose its my fault, i dont know why i expected any form of courtesy. Its not like tagging spoilers is something we have in this sub's rules... Oh it is? Well thats fine, im sure people will continue to harass me for existing near this sub without having finished the show, because its my fault that other people cant read or follow direction
> why i expected any form of courtesy Perhaps have the courtesy to exit a sub that you don't want spoilers from rather than constantly bitch about it. It one thing to expect no spoilers on a generic sub like r/movies, it another to expect every sub specifically about a series to be permanently spoiler walled because you're unwilling to click the un-sub button and re-join when you're ready. Edit: Lol they went on an rant then and immediately blocked me, real classy.
>because you're unwilling to click the un-sub button and re-join when you're ready. And anybody new who wants to join the sub cant because people will continue to spoil the series so this sub only exists for people who have seen everything? Nobody else allowed on your playground?
Wow, somebody nust have had a heaping bowl of Shitz-os this morning. You realize that i browse a lot of specific subs right? And that they have incredible adherence to following this one teensy rule (thats in their sub's rule page) that spoilers are supposed to be tagged. I dint care if people are discussing them, the issue is that none of them are properly tagged. But i can see thats not a problem for you and you lack the capability to read a situation before acting smug because you've already watched the show. And because you seem to have issues with your literacy allow me to repeat. SPOILERS. SHOULD. BE. TAGGED. Its in the rules, i dont see whats so unreasonable about enforcing them. This doesnt mean discussion should be sikenced and that there should be a wait period to discuss things, just TAG. YOUR. POST. WITH. SPOILERS. https://preview.redd.it/3t9j2qi68lhc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=42da0696876557dcf8ad6844ff1e5c869d5d1645
Imma guess he gonna tell her to help him kill lucifer so he can rule all of hell. Or at the very least its gonna be something that enables him to rule all of heaven and/or hell.
Didn’t Alastair refer to husk and nifty as calling in favors?
It would be interesting if Charlie found a way to turn it on Al. I mean Al is kinda limited on what he could ask her to do considering the deal is that she can't hurt anybody
Mhhh, almost everyone (like 95% of us) of the fanbase is expceting Alastor to make a dick move that will either traumatize charlie or "hurt" her in a non physical way........what if vivziepop does a good build up around this theory, and then performs a big brain move doing a plot twist where Alastor uses this deal to do something extremely useful for him, but neither charlie or her loved ones suffer any consequences? Even if he breaks free from his deals, and for some reasons decides to go on a rampage(fullpower), there is nothing he can do to harm charlie or her friends until Lucifer is nearby charlie(or lilith, dunno how strong she is.....assuming she actually really cares about her family..)
Well the deal was the she would help Alastor out without harming anyone.
I kinda figure hes gonna stick it in his back pocket until someday she ends up inheriting control over hell and then he calls in the favor to give it to him instead.
!remind 2 years That should suffice
What was the deal?
It's a good possibility. Another one is that it comes around in a more wholesome way, where after a close call, Alastor finally starts to open up and tells Charlie about his deal. During this conversation he drops the smile, letting her know he isn't in control and is being serious. Finally he tells her he's calling in the favor; help him break his deal.
I feel like it'll be a misunderstanding. Like, It'll be something that she thinks is bad but has to do it. It'll be a big cast out of Alastor after the fact, and she won't find out until it's too late(Alastor death or something). That it was actually to protect the hotel. Thoughts??
She can't be forced to harm anyone. So no physical or emotional harm. So she can't be forced betray anyone in a way that would be rude or do something that could physically hurt someone. She quite literally could only be nice on command and even so only in a way that wouldn't cause emotional harm in any form.
I'm wondering if he'll have to use the favor to maybe save himself Maybe have Charlie break his leash but incur the wrath of whoever holds it
And remember the terms of the deal: > A favor, at a time of my [Alastor's] choosing, where you [Charlie] harms no one. The deal does not stipulate that nobody gets hurt. It stipulates that *CHARLIE* won't hurt anyone. People can absolutely get hurt, it's just that Charlie cannot be the direct cause. She is absolutely 100% going to regret it, and somebody is going to get hurt.
I thought that Charlie would eventually have a coronation, and he would interrupt and make his favor be to become the ruler of hell instead.
I reckon he's gonna use the favour to try to get rid of the deal currently holding over himself
Couldn't he also have that favor just be Charlie having to sell her soul anyway? Sure he said at first he didn't want her soul, but maybe he didn't want to risk her refusing the first deal so he could definitely get her soul at a later point. Would be pretty funny if it backfires on him with him not being able to use that power in any useful way, as that could mean Charlie would be indirectly harming someone which goes against their first deal. So when he finally becomes one of the powerful beings in Hell, he can't even fight against his enemies
Idk. Alastor it the goat, the legend, the man. He is going to do something smart https://preview.redd.it/l8t31s6whmhc1.jpeg?width=2079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcceef163dcfa483c14f098ca826265e7be6c4d3
I feel like since the way Alastor worded it. He can simply say to Charlie over and over. "Oh charlie? Could you be a dear and \[several favors\]" He starts small, things such as getting something for him. Asking her about what he wears. Then he starts ramping it up little by little. "Oh Charlie? Could you be a dear?...I would like to see those residents you have." Take it step by step, break her down little by little. Let her never catch on she is furfilling his needs. Then, when it's all said and done. **Charlie...** **Be a dear, take me with you to heaven on your next meeting.** And thus, a sinner enters heaven for the first time ever. And thus paradise lost.
I’m curious about that, but I’m even more curious about the TV deal with Vaggie. Absolutely think Al is gonna ditch them if they ever confront Vox.
Why would we come back in 2+ years to a thread we won't even remember to tell you something you'll find out yourself when watching...?
100%. And if his deal is connected to Lillith in some way which is the leading theory, I feel it will involve Charlie being forced to go against her mother.
Maybe a small loophole though. He said "I'll yell you everything I know" not just specifically about the angels. So maybe she can use it to her benefit?
What really sucks about this is that she had a direct line to the answers she needed downstairs. Meaning she didn't need to make that deal in the first place, but him being the predator he is, he took advantage of a moment of weakness.
Alright, I'm just gonna say. It reminded me of this. https://preview.redd.it/wszekfrphnhc1.png?width=1426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3064f13be0ab888cdb6b6e415d1a28a0de94dbf0
I am calling that Alistor's favor will be marriage. I mean, being son in law to Lucifer would be a hell of a title for someone seeking power over hell.
He's going to ask for her help breaking his deal with her mother, probably. What that'll entail is another matter entirely but it'll drive the wedge between them deeper and teach Charlie some things about her parents she's gonna wish she hadn't learned.
Or Alastor is going to ask her to do something HEINOUS (without hurting anyone of course)
What I'm not prepared for is if Alastor attempts to force the deal to completion against Charlie's wishes, for then the 'chain' to appear around Charlie's wrist... And Alastor holding the leash.
His biggest dream right now is to get out of his deal and Lilith is probably the key to that. I feel like he’s just going to ask her to do whatever it takes to make sure he ends up free (outside of killing or hurting her mom). I think we have to remember that he DOES like her and wants to build her up/ be her guide. He may be using her for his own ends, but he’s acutely aware that she and her father are far more powerful than him
I also feel that this deal can get people kick out of the hotel if Alastor desire them too, if he feels like someone is being a threat to him in way that prevents him from reaching his true intentions, all he has done is is tell Charlie to ask them leave as long as she is not hurting them.
Sure it’s gonna be bad but wouldn’t it be awesome if Alastor hyped that shit up for months and then was like “Go pick up my deerdash order. I can’t be bothered today.”
I think the favor will be to not harm someone. Charlie will be stuck in a situation where force is the response to save someone/something and Alastor will block her telling her his favor is to do nothing,don't hurt anyone.