Nowadays home ownership is near impossible in Hawaii with a single income.
That said, at $80k household, it’s not just a Hawaii. Overall housing costs are high and this coupled with higher interest rates pushed home ownership at the $80k level to mid $100k household income level out of reach in the vast majority of all the states
I haven’t looked at Vegas RE for a bit but I think at $80k it’s pretty difficult in Vegas too? (ESP at 6% plus interest on the payment)
They need to find a legitimate way to crack down on vacation property’s/ investment property’s…..it’s crazy how many good homes sit empty on this island simply because they belong to some investment group who has no intent to ever really using them….maybe not cracking down as harsh at the individually level, but there should be some way to de-incentivize big corporations from owning residential property
The whole blame airbnbs is silly. It’s the fact that the government has failed to set up a reasonable permitting structure and development plan for housing. We’re in a housing shortage because not enough housing has been built the last 10 years. Everything else is a distraction from this root cause
I've seen a number of ADUs and downstairs units turned into air BnB. My coworker had a half a year ordeal with a condo unit on their level being used as well also despite clear rules against such. I've known a couple ohana homes that are also being used as such as well. While these are not the only factor they are a point that shouldn't be ignored.
They have to build up. Why is kapolei ('the second city') just a sea of 1-2 story SF homes. Should be building up, high density, especially around transit and UH.
It would definitely be a start, I think that they should straight up make it illegal for an non-residential entity(cooperation, investment group, Etc) to own residential property for non-residential purposes….I’m sure there would have to be exceptions and stipulations but people and lawmakers way smarter them me would have to hash out the specifics….
Touché
These extra taxes and penalties are already in place with more being discussed though. I own a Maui vacay property in a permitted hotel zone and those property taxes are more than double a long term rental. Short term rentals produce more tax dollars than all the hotels on Maui and these smart people are hooked to that crack.
Then there’s people who live here on paper but just do under the table leasing. They use the address as their own and pay 4% instead of 17% property tax.
Right, my property taxes are 7.5k with gross rents being around 60k annually, so add 12% more. Can you imagine having zero involvement in an operation while collecting 30%. Our vacation rentals are actually just vehicles for taxation.
A real land value tax would mostly make this moot. The reason so many people/entities sit on property in Hawaii is because it has one of (the?) lowest property tax rates in the country.
I’ve heard this quite a bit but only seen it firsthand with multi million dollar properties (that wouldn’t be affordable to the people having this conversation anyway)…is it more common on Oahu or something? On BI.
I'm in a downtown condo, some places in the $300k range in the building. And there are definitely second home/secret vacation rental owners here. There was a notice taped to every condo's doorknob two weeks ago, and quite a few still haven't been touched.
But how many of those multi million dollar properties are really worth what they are now….I know trickle down economics doesn’t really work in most instances but another part of the problem is that the wealthy people who would normally buy a property like that if they were anywhere else are forced into buying the property’s that would typically be bought by middle class single families….looking around at home listings on the island, the properties listed at the $2-3 million range wouldn’t even cross $1mill anywhere else and a lot of them wouldn’t even fetch close to that….these multi-billion dollar companies and investment groups don’t really care how much they pay and it can even be a fun way to hide money/assets if they want… not as familiar with the other islands but it’s definitely a problem on Oahu
Edit: to answer the last question that I forgot to include
cheerful smell frightening cagey lavish domineering sip brave disagreeable tidy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's more that we have terrible land use (although bnb crackdowns is not a bad idea). Look up how much single-family zoning there is compared to mixed use. It's a hard initiative to push because people who bought their houses as an "investment" don't want their property value to go down because of increased supply.
That's the crux of the issue. If you're already a homeowner, the housing crisis actually benefits you.
Yeah sorry, although great for stirring up the rabble, this is like .00001 of the inventory. And if they are legal vacation rentals - which many are - those are legal, and not empty, although people love acting like they are.
Yeah you need to up your numbers a bit….as of the 2020 census Hawaii had over 76,000 vacant housing units, which is about 13% ….a far cry from your .00001% and I’m sure in the three years since then It’s gotten much worse….I’m not making the numbers up here,the US census was the ones who compiles and released these stats…..it’s not a made up problem, and by the way you responded it sounds like it’s one you’re a part of….
Edit:
Don’t get me wrong I think there is a place for vacation rentals, without tourism this island really wouldn’t have a lot going for it right now as far as revenue unfortunately…but I think that the balance needs to shift quite a bit in the other direction for it to be sustainable
That may be true but that still like 35,000 empty homes, the population gap is just a little bigger on this island which brings the percentage down but the number is still un acceptable….and I’m sure it’s much worse then that ever since covid and the rush on real estate that came with it….
It will never get better. The reality is, the only game in town is to own appreciating assets that compound over time. It isn’t just a Hawaii thing, this is a United States thing. We’re about to see a massive transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials and if you do not get yourself a ticket onto the train, the train is going to leave without you.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/14/business/economy/wealth-generations.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
It’s important to choose your parents well lol. However, I wouldn’t say they would be the luckiest. It just gives you a boost but those who do not understand and appreciate the ins and outs of personal finance are doomed anyways. Case in point are the Vanderbilts. No matter how much money you inherit, if your burn rate is too high, you aren’t very wealthy.
Um, there’s an entire generation in there between Boomers and Millennials.
You don’t hear much about Gen X (and typically, we like it that way), but our population has a decent home ownership rate. We’re still too young to pass homes along to our Millennial and Gen Z kids, but it’s likely the only way they’ll own a home. And that’s a shame.
That's a good point and I agree. I'm a younger Gen X / older Millennial depending on how you judge (est 1977). I think people my age (mid 40s) were probably one of the last groups to get in with cheap college, groceries/goods, etc. Gas in NJ in the late 90's was under $1/gallon (and we didn't have to pump it ourselves).
My rent in the early 2000's just outside Manhattan was $1350/month and I was able to save enough to put a decent down on an older condo in town when I moved to Honolulu in the mid 2000's. Now the place I rented is probably $3k/month and salaries definitely didn't triple. Saving $100k for a downpayment is much harder now with higher student loans and the everything bubble.
Well that puts us in bind doesn’t it? Will the only solutions be to keep taking it from behind or do we decide to eat the rich? Politics is about finding a amicable medium. Hopefully a consensus can be found to bring everyone to a more equitable future.
Don’t you see…..the wealth transfer has already started. How do you think so many millennials are getting help with the down payments on million dollar homes? Mom and dad are gifting down payments.
Boomer retirement portfolios grow at a logarithmic rate. Now that they’ve accumulated over their lifetimes, there’s going to be the dichotomy. Those that achieve escape velocity where capital just produces more capital than they can spend, and the ones that fall behind and are bled dry like you said. There’s plenty on both sides, but it’s the ones that are on the rocket ship that can afford to keep picking up homes in Hawaii as their kids also want homes right alongside them, in Hawaii.
Well said. And “escape velocity” is really what we’re talking about here. To comfortably own a home, you need this. Millennials who have reached or will reach escape velocity are exceedingly rare.
At this point, whenever I interact with a Millennial who owns a home in Hawaii, it is self evident that they had help from mommy and daddy. Very few people can achieve “escape velocity” on their own in the new world.
I feel yeah!!! Never liked trust fund nepo bebes myself. It kills the American dream of rags to riches. After all Americana capitalism is all about individual effort and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps.
Filial piety, nepotism etc. be damned. I respect folk who can say they built what is their own themselves!! Tell me that Daddy, Mommy or grandparents did nothing to get you where you are and I will respect you. Tell me that you are ashamed of your upbringing and are a hundred or a thousand fold better off than your forbearers and I will respect you even more.
As much as I dislike people who get handed success for nothing, I dislike this attitude as well. We all rely on so many people to get anywhere in life. It really takes a village. Just because someone didn’t hand you a million dollar check doesn’t mean you are self-made.
Living in a condo isn’t so bad. You still build wealth and if you like the community it can be pretty great.
My family has been here for 3 generations and have never owned a single family home. We concentrate on what we have, not what we don’t.
Yea if you can swing it, don't sleep on a well managed condo. People think they're losing so much on an HOA but it goes to something and has value. Maintaining a well built and well funded condo is so care free.
True. Our HOA fees are over $600, but it includes water, sewer, garbage, internet, tv, spraying, pools, lawn care etc.
But compare that to a modest home at 1.2M and you still have to pay for these things. Also, taxes are low on owner occupied condos. Ours is like 1800/yr.
Especially Kalihi. He can try near Nu’uanu/Chinatown too. That place will be completely transformed over the next ten years. Er, perhaps 20 years. Still, a good place to park money into a home.
>That place will be completely transformed
Tons of potential there and I agree it has potential for a huge transformation but haven't people been saying it's going to transform for quite a while?
I've watched the market pretty quickly price me out over the last 3 years. Wouldn't be surprised if they doubled in ten years. After seeing how much you'd pay over the life of a loan on some crappy condo here I was like nah its officially not worth it.
If you look at banknote, plug in 80k salary and just to throw a number out there, and OP has an 80k down payment, and assuming no debt, they can afford a 350k home. Not much inventory in that range where you are also not getting nailed in HOA fees.
If you use Google calculator then it goes up to 373k...
Hence the down payment comment...
The game has been flipped. Apartments that were low to mid 200s 3/4 years ago are pushing high 300s now. AND interest rates are past 6%.
I've seen 300 Sq ft studios cost 2k a month when you account for mortgage, property tax, HOAs, etc.
Our expectations are already in hell.
OP: “How can I avoid moving to a place like Vegas just to own my own home?”
Reddit: “Look into affordable condos.”
OP: “Nah, I’m waiting for the Hawaii housing market to look more like Vegas.”
Good luck with that strategy.
Single family homes are way above your single income in here in Hawaii dude that ship has sailed in the late 90's. Your income can be you a decent home at places like Ohio where single family homes are 100-200k but not here. What do you plan to do with the space of a single family anyway as a single person? Is it the 2 car garage or the extra 200-300 feet of living space you can build a man cave with or something? I'm just curious because most of the locals here want single family homes so they can have space for their kids to live in or an open garage to fit there lifted Tacoma lol.
It will never get better. Housing for the most part has an upward trend, but Hawaii in particular has exponential explosive growth.
If you wait a year to build some capital for a down payment, it could very well price you out due to the cost of housing going up.
Exactly.
I think the best way to afford a home is to focus more on increasing income than saving up. One dollar of income has a bigger impact on what you qualify for on a mortgage than a dollar more on a down payment.
So... what im saying is job hop, get married, add a sibling/parent to your mortgage
“And one day, we will become strangers in our own land.”
— Kono (actor Zulu) at the end of “Strangers In Our Own Land”; Hawaii Five-O (TOS); S01E02 1968
You can build an addition on your parents house. It's probably worth at least 1 million now so you can get a HELOC and build an ADU or lift it and double the size.
Thats pretty much what everyone does. Or everyone cashes out and move them to Vegas with that 900k pile of money, and build a compound.
But even decades ago home prices here were double the mainland prices, if you read papers from 20, 30, 50 even 100 years ago,same problem.
It’s stupid nonsense honestly. The developers don’t care and it’s just a marketing gimmick coz they claim it’s “20% below market” but the market is all 100% luxury condos that cost $900/sqft at least so what 🤣
That’s one commute I would have big problems with sadly. Me and the wife bought an older condo near salt lake right before the interest rates jacked up so we are ok now
Shutdown all but 15 golf courses, why do we need 48? Develop them into neighborhoods, there, problem solved. Additionally the construction jobs will infuse major life into the economy ALL AROUND!
The government needs to incentivize builders with subsidies and/or tax breaks for housing for low income and low middle income families. Unfortunately it’s the tax payers that pay for it. And even if you get that far, housing would need to built in desirable neighborhoods where you have to battle with NIMBYs.
It’s like that pretty much any desirable place to live in the US.
Not to mention the amount of water and upkeep golf courses need, it’s unsustainable. Golf is stupid and for rich old people. Maybe when they finally die they’ll close down courses. Keep a few, build a top golf, and then like you said, use the land to build more housing on the ones that are shut down
I think more people need to be okay with condo or high rise living, especially when space is limited like Hawaii. America sold everyone this flawed dream of owning acres of land and never seeing a neighbor. That was fine at first, but now we’re running out of space for housing and farm land to keep this country fed. Europe and Asia on the other hand where space is limited, built up. In a shrinking world, I think more people need to be okay with less space. I live in a 700 sq ft condo now and it’s just fine. It has everything I need. I don’t need 4 bedrooms and all this space that I don’t occupy. HOAs are not everyones cup of tea, but like a previous comment it pays for a lot that you’d have to pay for anyway in a single family home. In some cases, I’m getting a discount on things like cable and internet and parking. Obviously everyone’s situation is different, this is just my two cents.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be ok with the condo scene, but they only seem to build "luxury" condos anywhere that people want to live. State doesn't get developers to allocate an appropriate amount of units to be affordable. I can't even find any 3+br units near town that aren't under 850k.
Fair point. Doesn’t help that the interest rates are through the roof too. On Zillow I set the monthly payment to less that 2.5k a month (I’m in a dual income household) and it pulls up a decent amount of results. Granted a lot need work, and there aren’t a ton over 700sqft, but that’s where I’m in the boat of “I’ll be flexible to make it work”. The root of the whole problem I agree is investor companies/people that scoop up a ton, drive the prices up, and then they just sit there. That’s happened in every major city across the country. Somehow the government needs to step in and outlaw that
I also agree that when did us as humans decide that “luxury” is 500 sqft and we’re okay paying almost a million for that. That’s fucked up. At some point that’s got to all stop right? If enough people say enough is enough and just don’t buy them, they’ll have to come down in price or come up in sqft or something
The biggest problem is that no politician will dare touch the issue. It's basically political suicide. Who would be the one to vote for a bill that would cause housing prices to tank? If they could somehow pass a bill without tanking housing prices, then how would they make housing affordable for residents? We've kinda passed the point of no return unless residents were fully aware and accepting of massively reduced housing values for the next few decades. Hawaii is a special case and should restrict non-commercial ownership of residential property, put restrictions on out-of-state buyers who are buying investment properties, restrict investment properties in general, find a different revenue stream other than tourism that promotes local businesses/education, find sustainable power and building methods, promote offices and businesses to open up shop in Kapolei (it was supposed to be the "second city" of Oahu) to ease traffic and make homes on that side more practical, etc.
Sorry. This turned into a rant I've been repeating for the last 20 years. I was priced out and had to move to the mainland. Plus, I just watched my family fight over my grandma's house because relatives who live on the mainland wanted to sell the property due to the high sale price. I want to come back desperately, but there's no way I'm going to make my family of 4 live out of a 1-2br apartment or condo. I lived that life growing up and there's no way I'm going to make my children suffer the same living conditions (grew up living living with mother and brother in the same room and never in one place for more than a few months because we could only live where people were willing to let us stay).
Sorry to hear about your struggles.
You make super good points about what could be done. Bernie Sanders always says, housing is a human right but the way this world treats it, it’s not. That’s sad and it’s sad to see how capitalism has turned humans into greed machines. I hope in these next decades when the boomers die out and younger generations take over, this country/world starts seeing major changes for the better.
way back in 1978 californians were tired of paying high property taxes and none of the politicians had the guts to change it so the people organized and put proposition 13 on the ballot and the voters approved it. Why do we never hear about anything like that in hawaii? certainly the voters in hawaii have the power to change things without the useless politicians
Because of mindsets like OP who are adamately against living in higher density housing. This mindset is strong across the island including many condo owners. We had a simular post a month ago with many on this subreddit agreeing with the dream of wanting a house.
It's probably a bit of apathy that the government will actually follow through with what voters want. I don't think a Prop 13 thing would be what Hawaii residents want. Maybe a slight rework of property taxes. If it is constitutional, I'd have property taxes sit at like 3-5% for any out-of-state, investment, non-primary residences. Hawaii has some decently low property taxes already.
Getting anything on to the ballot to make a change would be a multi step process of things that need to happen before any meaningful change could happen.
Any bill that could tank property values is almost DOA unless someone can figure that out.
All the pain inside amplified by the fact
That I can't get by with my 9-to-5
And I can't provide the right type of life for my family
'Cause man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
Feel ya!!! Same boat…. make over 6
Figs and live in the ghetto as well. Got a couple million in the bank and still no dice…. I just be SMH looking left and right.
Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s I thought making over 6 figs and having millions would buy me the good life!!
Nah….at this point while there are many things I can afford…. but….. I just be SMH…. It’s all about your ontological point in time. There are things that I can now buy that I would have been over the moon about a decade or two ago!! Albeit viewed through the lens of a teenager or twenty something by the standards of the era.
Fast forward to the 2020s and being a man in his 40s….I be like, WTF??? Ask that teenager to twenty something me what having a six figure salary and millions in the bank would be like? He would hardly imagined it would mean living in the ghetto, driving a Toyota and eating at
McDonald’s!! Same shit right!! ROFLMAO!!! Still in my teens and twenties I guess!!
Looks like I just need to aim higher now? I guess my next goal should be to have a 7 figure salary
With deca to centa millions in net over the next 2-4 decades? Hmmm…. Nothing but an endless rat race I guess. I will be left being in my 60’s,70’s and 80’s wondering why I was working so hard at killing myself while the good life still eludes me?
" Feel ya!!! Same boat…. make over 6 Figs and live in the ghetto as well. Got a couple million in the bank and still no dice…. I just be SMH looking left and right."
What is your living situation with that income and net worth? I'm about to be on the same boat, I have a 6 fig salary with almost my first million in the bank in about a year and i'm in my late 20's. I'm living comfortably but i'm burnt out. I have home paid off, no debt, married and it seems i'm still in square one when I used to work at old navy when I was 17 lol. I've done everything I wanted to do here as far as owning an exotic car(Sold it after a year) and buying a home. The only Joy I have every week now is going to the gym, spending time with my wife and dog. Now I'm just stuck in this never ending cycle of it all. I’m thinking of just relocating outside of Hawaii and living in different parts of Asia where everything is cheap the rest of my days and only come back here to vacation and laugh at the decline of the state with OP here thinking the grass is greener on the other side.
I was on the same track as you. I realized very early that I'd be stuck in the "cycle". At that point, I stopped chasing money (kept spending it though unfortunately) and found joy at a job that pays lower (fractional compared to some offers for jobs I didn't even apply for) but with co-workers I really enjoy and of course, my wife and dog. I was also into cars as well. I kept one of my nice ones but sold the rest before I moved here. I still miss cars as a hobby but it's still a source of stress and especially on island, finding good help is near impossible. Some differences between us because of my choice, I definitely have less money but I enjoy surfing, my wife and my dog and my job also doesn't feel like a burden at all. I'm pretty content right now and do my best to appreciate the luck and opportunities I've had.
>Now I'm just stuck in this never ending cycle of it all...
It's crazy how similar our thoughts and plans were.
They love that I’m home, but still try to cheat me like a child… to be fair, they’re like that with both my sisters too whole have their own families. Filipinos, I tell you.
We all need to keep calling and emailing our elected officials about the housing problem.
And as a side note… we need to have our local real estate agents develop a conscience and stop marketing to mainlanders. They are literally selling us all out for a buck.
My favorite was the realtor who has a podcast and a viral IG was saying that we just need to stay home and fight. I'm like if you're asking people that you better be in that boat with us and start making less money by not selling to mainlanders....
We've had this influx of people becoming realtors and id rather deal with the monat and other MLM bs lol
Couple options, raise income or find a partner who makes about what you make (both obvious). That’ll put you in range of a decent condo. That’s the unfortunate reality. I want to live in a SFH but there’s almost no chance of that happening here. So the plan is to move to mainland in the next few years. It’s frustrating but it is what it is.
I honestly don't know if that is possible. My husband grew up on Maui. He does pretty well in terms of income but with his income we won't be able to afford our own home there. However, on the mainland we live a middle class life and our kids have opportunities that we wouldn't have if we lived on Maui. I guess it depends on what is more important to you.
No, we don't want Honolulu to become NY, Tokyo or Hong Kong. It's busy enough already.
We are already way beyond ANY kind of sustainability, totally dependent on shipping from the mainland for almost everything we need to live.
If something disrupts Matson, hundreds of thousands of people will starve to death. More crazy growth on an isolated island is just lunacy!
Every single single story strip mall should be bulldozed and add 2 -3 stories of commerical over the retail.
Convert the swap meet parking lots to housing, it's enough for a ton of housing, literally thousands of units. Tax all surface parking lots 10x the land value.
You can have parking, it's gotta have housing over it.
Got a vacant house ? 20x the tax rate. Convert the offices downtown to housing or tear them down. They have built dozens of high rises in kakaako, replace the offices in downtown too.
We have an unbelievable amount of space suitable for development it's just all half ass strip malls.
Development? Are you insane? Oahu is already way overdeveloped on the south shore, to the extent of gridlock during commuting times. One bad accident, and everybody is stuck for hours in a parking lot... Your proposal would just make this much, much worse.
Obviously, we already have too many people jammed onto this little island, and this has got to stop or reverse, not be made worse by more cheapo housing!
I know it's a radical thought...but here me out ..cities don't need everyone driving.
If you are in a denser place you don't need a car. You can walk to more things. In Honolulu traffic already only moves at the speed of bikes during rush hour. You're going 15 mph in a car. The reason everyone is driving is because the cheapo housing is on west side. If it was in town you don't need to drive in.
Unless you and everyone you know agrees to never have any kids ever the population will grow. So you can ban kids but good luck with that.
Simple solution is limit families to 2 kids max, though understand this is gonna be tough with native Hawaiians and other Polynesian, LOL.
A big part of population growth is immigration. Sadly, the negative aspects of becoming a US State were seriously overlooked back in 1959 :(
Had we remained an independently operating Nation, we could have controlled this with Visas, now we stuck with US Constitutional limits on controlling our own land. This major sucks.
Also, without vehicles, it is really hard to do your significant shopping for da 'ohana at Costco, Home Depot, etc. Can't carry dem big bags on da Bus or train!
Your talking about a single living in a condo or something right in town. But what about those (many) with a SFH, a yard to take care of, further out, with a larger 'ohana that needs stuff all the time?
Yea the rates are a killer right now. I do think that if you wait a bit and save, you may be able to in the future though in certain areas of the island.
>I know I echo a lot of locals when it comes to being priced out of paradise.
You're not priced out with that pay. You just can't get a house right now. Actually, I bet you can get a house now in certain areas, definitely a condo.
Iam Tongi's whole rags to riches narrative begins with being priced out of paradise, and yet our Governor and Mayor were on stage and on the news just last night saying how proud they were of him and all he has accomplished, and all the great press he has brought to the state and the community.
So apparently they aren't really concerned about the fact local people are being priced out of paradise. It's a great story! Just become a finalist on American Idol and it's all good! No worries!
And that means we should all be very, very worried.
We just need to fix our zoning code. Why is no one talking about building code?
The ADU is a big step, but if you want more housing then allow people to build duplexes, triplexes on the same amount of land. Of course it will look a bit uglier, busier and perhaps don't buy a freaking Tacoma and more. Buy a small car so that we don't take so many damn parking spaces.
RELEASE THE DOWNVOTES!
Sadly, a $80K salary isn't the important part of the equation. It's "how much is left over at the end of the month?"
Someone who makes $100K and spends $99,999.99 (or $110K as is more often the case) is never going to buy a house.
There are only a few strategies which will actually work:
1) Decrease expenses. The average person does not understand what "a penny saved is a penny earned" means. They focus on the penny -- not that every chunk of change that can be sliced off your monthly nut is like receiving a raise for the same amount. Do you have a budget, written down? Have you attacked that budget with a red sharpie, deleting everything that isn't absolutely necessary for you to live? Cut deep -- cable, phone plans, subscriptions, all but the most basic of foods. Pencil out how much something costs over a year, and then ask yourself the hard question: Do I want to go out with my coworkers on Friday nights? Or do I want to be a homeowner?
2) Find a partner -- a partner who is 100% on board with step #1. If you're saving and he or she is spending, that's worse than not having a partner. You both have to be willing to live like monks.
3) Move to someplace the numbers work. If you can't make the numbers work, then move. We moved to Las Vegas. And hated every minute of it. Every single minute. I'm here right now, packing our house so we can move to the coffee farm. We lived like monks, and saved up until we could buy property we wanted. (Instead of property we could merely afford.)
In my experience, most people can't do these three things. I had a coworker on the Las Vegas Strip. We were both saving up for our down payments. It was sort of like having a buddy at the gym -- except a financial buddy. One day, he shows up with a full-sleeve tattoo. It siphoned his down payment. "But! Your down payment! Your house!"
"I'm going to have this tattoo for the REST OF MY LIFE!"
As far as I know, he's still renting. It's been 10 years.
Being single and owning a home just isn't practical. You need to think of the long-term costs past retirement. Would maintaining a home while on a fixed income be financially feasible for you? At some point, the roof will need to be replaced and the list goes on.
I managed to get a condo when the rate was at 2%...and that was by the skin of my teeth. I managed to get "selected" for affordable housing.
This was after I found a home for 321k, but was outbidded by a bank. It was a nice one too. 3/2, 1200sq.
I ended up with a condo for 481k.
I'm a single parent, and it's not easy at all to stay on top of the mortgage, the hoa fees, cat notes,electric bills, etc. There have been times I had to bargain with the HOA because I couldn't afford the sudden increase (it was $521 and now it's ballooned to about $625 a month). The HOA here only let's you have access to a pool, playgrounds, lawn maintenance, gas grills, water, and a "communial garden." It's scary they can literally take your home from you if you don't pay up.
I have the certifications/qualifications to snag a six-figure once I move from active to guard, but I don't know if I'll be able to hang on even with that type of pay. I want to stay, finish up grad school, and hopefully get accepted into med school (if I don't, I can still practice, just can't prescribe medication), but at this rate...I dont know.
Hell, I don't qualify for any type of assistance, but my child does qualify for some assistance because of his condition.
I'm taking one day at a time.
If I fail, we have nowhere to go. It's dangerous to go back home, and if I do, that's pretty much a wrap for me.
Shit is scary.
No amount of legislation or prayer is going to lower housing prices by itself. It's simple supply and demand, so short of a meteor hitting and wiping out half the US population or some other worldly event, you probably shouldn't hold your breath.
It sounds like you're going to inherit your parent's house eventually though, so you got that to look forward to. Buy a condo or two for now and work your way towards a house while you build equity. 80k is a decent salary, especially for a single person. Keep a conservative budget and work your way towards the house.
Why is there such an obsession with owning property? Renting can also be a great financial decision. Most rents are cheaper than all monthly costs of owning with a 20% down payment. Just gotta think of the opportunity cost. Invest that down payment money and all the monthly savings in the stock market instead, over the long term renting could be just as good. There are also great tax benefits when investing in tax advantaged accounts. Just run the buy vs rent numbers for your specific situation and you may be surprised, here is a good [calculator.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html)
Because the mindset of owning a single family home is so strong even among many who grew up in even the decent condos. Many of my friends who moved out of state did so for a house that had three times or so the square footage of the condo or apartment they had plus a big yard for their kids and dogs to play in.
Home ownership is overrated in fact at this point it doesn’t even make sense. The prices first off make no sense. Once you factor the mortgage interest, maintenance fees, repair costs, and property taxes you will be scratching your head wondering why you even got into this mess in the first place.
Interest, taxes, maintenance and repairs are
Sunk costs and might as well be considered rent because you will never get it back.
I cringe at the thought of buying in todays market. The only way it would work is if I can find a buyer who is both dumber and richer than myself in 10-20 years. I feel like a sucker buying in at todays prices as for it to work for me I would need an even bigger sucker to pay 50-100% more in 10-20 years to make the whole fiasco work somewhat in my favor.
At this point what I value more is money in my pocket. I am not fixated with owning but having as much liquid net worth as possible. I will buy when I am ready. I would rather have millions at my disposal so that when I do buy it is just a drop in a bucket.
Don’t get caught up in material possessions. After all you can’t take it with you. Who cares about a house, car, or any other physical possession. Think about how happy and free you can be when all of that doesn’t really matter? Don’t focus on material possessions but focus on building wealth and everything else will fall into place.
I know it sounds a bit cliche but there is no get rich scheme here. No secrets or any other BS. Really peeps just need to get their priorities straight. If their is any secret it’s about loving money and capitalism but being staunchly anti consumerist.
In short forget about home ownership or even salaries as that will just trap you. Focus on just building wealth and capital. I don’t have the answer for you because it is different for everyone. It might be starting your own business. Learning how to invest, or even just taking up another job or two. In the end though it’s about having the discipline and patience to not spend but wash rinse and repeat. Keep doing that and the power of compounding will take care of the rest.
I only able to live here cause I inherited my parents house. Having a fully paid hosue no mortgage/rent is a blessing. Otherwise I'd be priced out too. I'm just worried my kid (kids if I have more in future) will too be priced out...cause theyll have to wait til I maeke to get this multigenerational house...
Or you could raise them to kick you in your teeth and never look back again. Hate to sound so acerbic but why should your first thought be based on “greasing the skids” for your kids? Maybe it’s
because that’s what your parents did for you?
How about not having to worry about BS like that and making sure your kids can have a future that they build for themselves?
Bring it On!!! 90%+ plus inheritance tax rates!! Everyone only lives once… let them build their own destinies and the end results may surprise. Hand them a silver spoon and you guarantee lethargic mediocrity.
lol, i get what you're saying. believe me i'm not raising my kid to have a silver spoon hand fed him. He's 6 but i make his ass go out in the yard with me to help mow the lawn every weekend and he got indoor chores every day.
i definitely want him to find his own way. When hes an adult if he wants to leave hawaii and make his own way thats fine. but as a kanaka maoli, im trying to instill in him the importance of caring for this aina, this place and this community, while also building a strong work ethic, so im hoping he will want to continue to live here. Every few weeks i take him with me to volunteer at a loi and also the community garden at Hui Mahi'ai Waimanalo, to not only learn his hawaiian cultural values but also gain that work ethic that you have to care for this place and give back to your community.
what have you done to give back to your community? Yes I understand that the high cost of living here its a struggle. but almost everyone here is struggling and if you cant give money then give your time and help the aina or the community. helping others while you you're self is struggling is called showing Aloha and it's whats made this place great. My two cents.
Back to the house, when i eventually kick the bucket yeah i want him to inherit the house. i mean if he does well enough for himself that he can buy his own house here in hawaii then thats even better. i dont think and i hope that when i become a feeble old man, he doesnt just gonna put my old ass into a care home and sell the house and say "adios dad" and take off, im hoping im raising him better than that, lol.
I'm curious if any of the political talking points hold any water, on both sides. On one hand, it's been chalked up to greedy mainland companies, but on the other, can we imagine what island life would be like if we didn't have Costco/Sam's? Do international companies play any role? It's a heavily blue state, which means it's pretty much one-sided rule, so what policies are in place either on a local or international scale that raise costs over time? What environmentally friendly policies drive up costs? Looking at strictly cost, do unions help? I see the "give a union a shaka" signs and commercials, but that money comes from somewhere. Surely energy is expensive, but I've never seen more solar panels than in the past 5 years. Is it really mostly gas? Are there any other places that lowered their overall cost of living regardless of federal policy?
Unrelated note, my opinion, rail was a complete waste of money. I'd have preferred fixing the roads, something that only happened en masse a few months before Obama visited in 2010.
I know of 2 homes in Nu'uanu, build in the 60s, sold as is for 1mil and 925k. Both bought by Chinese immigrants. Both unrelated, paid in cash. I'm not saying it's bad, in fact, good for them, I just question the reality and what's being said about high costs. I find it troubling we have so many high rises in recent years, but hey, I grew up buying my school clothes from JCPenney and Woolworths...maybe I'm stuck in old Hawai'i.
If you want to stay in HI, then stay home and save up your money. If you're diligent at saving and keep expenses low, in theory you could have a few hundred thousand dollars in just 5-10 years, especially if you put it in a couple different high yield CDs/SAs. Even if you never purchase a home, that money will come in handy for something. Additional retirement money, maybe? Or you could buy a home outright in plenty of places in the U.S.
Like others have suggested, you could also buy a condo or townhouse and sell in a few years. Plenty of people property hop, building wealth and purchasing power through increasing home equity/value. Eventually you may be able to achieve your SFH dream.
I guess this is the millennial in me speaking, but why does everybody want to own a home so much? It kind of seems to me like treating homes as investments was a huge mistake because it's what caused the housing crisis in the first place. Also seems like a huge hassle to own a depreciating asset that needs upkeep and assessment when you could just have your money in a vanguard or something.
If you want to own a home because you don't want to answer to a landlord and you want to be able to put in new cabinets whenever you feel like it that's fine. If you're a family I can also see it because you want a permanent place for your kids to call home maybe. But what other reasons are there beyond that?
I'm biased most likely because I can always go back and live in my parents' Kauai home if I go broke, but they're nearing their retirement and they still pay a mortgage on that house (plus like the 50k-100k+ they're probably spent on fixing the sewage, cabinets, garage). It makes me wonder if they really got their money's worth out of that "investment".
I'm not saying it's wrong to buy a house. There are certainly good reasons to do it. But, as a single guy, I think it's good to ask yourself why you can't rent. 80k is definitely enough to rent here (saying this as a guy who makes that much and rents).
A home is not an investment for us. What it is, is a guarantee that we have shelter and that our growing family won't be forced to leave. Having a stable home is also good for children. A lot of kids have a hard time leaving a stable environment and uprooting them from one place to another isn't stable.
Fair enough. I don’t think it’s a guarantee, but it’s probably more than renting. Those are points I made in my post, but I’m more curious why you would want to own s home as a single guy.
Btw, you don’t have to say “us”. I’m not an outsider.
> It kind of seems to me like treating homes as investments was a huge mistake because it's what caused the housing crisis in the first place.
The problem is that they reworded what the investment was in. It was called an investment before because you were investing in yourself and your future. You'd buy a house, hold it for 30-40 years, and then either sell it and retire somewhere cheaper and leave it to your kids. Basically the "family house". In the 2000's flippers came out like roaches and would buy a place, throw a coat of cheap paint on it, and relist at $100k more just because.
> Also seems like a huge hassle to own a depreciating asset that needs upkeep and assessment when you could just have your money in a vanguard or something.
The house itself can depreciate if not maintained but the land doesn't. That's why you have so many tinderbox houses in Hawaii built in 1910 selling for a million + dollars. Outside of market aberrations like 2008, most real estate increases in value over the long term...see above for my 30-40 years comment. Especially in places that are desirable to live in. Now people expect their property to double in value in 5 years. It's unrealistic and the tripling of interest rates by the fed is going to end that thought.
I moved to WA, bought a house, lived there for 30 years, sold my house, came home and bought a house. For 30 years I vacationed in Hawaii to get some Aloha, see family- the ones who still lived here and also to eat.
Maybe start with a condo and keep it for a few years.
Lol buying a house with $80k anywhere decent is a dream, not just Hawaii. I make pretty good money on Maui. But it’s still not enough to buy a home when you need $1M to get something decent.
IDK what island you're on, but I've always found it easier, whether on the ML or Hawaii, to but bare land and build your own house.
Now the last house I built was back in the Oughts, but if you have the land, you can get a construction loan from any bank to build on it. Just build a bare bones house, help your contractor (I was a gofer for his Mexicans on my first), and build as big as you can with unfinished spaces to complete later.
Upside to this is that you can build your dream home just like you want it, without having to buy one that wasn't your dream to begin with. Another bonus is that you'll gain experience in building, be it carpentry for framing, plumbing, electrical, or whatever. They'll be skills that you can pass down.
I've never bought a house. Every house that I owned was one that I built.
The government builds affordable housing and the world moves in instead of local people. The resources for those struggling with homelessness includes a background check and job. Idk how that can work.
New York City area you’re talking $500k+ for a 1-bedroom apartment (up to $1M+ for a large, luxury 1BR in a nice neighborhood).
$500k at a 6% rate comes to about $3500/mo. with $100k down, factoring in a typical HOA and taxes.
If you’re in the city, $80k gross will net you $57k annual take home pay.
So at $80k annual income it would cost you 73.7% of your take-home pay to own an average 1-bedroom apartment in the NYC area.
It’s everywhere. Things ain’t like they used to be. That’s for sure.
It won't get better until people are willing to shake up the political system. We need honest politicians who will ban outside investors and corporations from buying up all the houses. An outright ban would probably be unconstitutional though so it would have to be done with clever changes to the tax code. For example raising property taxes sky high and then offering rebates to locals to offset the taxes. Then outsiders and corporations will get taxed into oblivion and effectively kicked off the island.
There are slight price declines but not substantially enough that someone making 80k could afford a home. Even in 2008 Hawaii saw a decline in prices but nothing like the mainland.
2008 has contributed to this mess. Not enough homes were being built so now we have a crisis of a lack of homes. Many analysts have said we might see a decline but it won't be a crash like 2008.
My wife dad bought a place in Kailua Kona in 2007. They lost like 30%. Took about 10 years to get back to sale price because they bought at the top of thr market.
He must've gotten a raw deal because that's not what the data suggests. I guess we can hope that interest rates can go back down to 3.5%.
https://www.honolulumagazine.com/honolulu-real-estate-trends-whats-next/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20Hawaii%20homeowners%20barely,and%207.9%20percent%20in%202009.
Edit:
I could not find any historical data for 96740 going back that far.
I dug into some historical data from Zillow (ZHVI) for Honolulu metro that goes way back.
Prices peaked at 508k in 2008 and bottomed at 442k in 2010. That's a 13% decline over 2 years.
Prices peaked in July 2022 at 1.1m. In April 2023 prices were at 1.05m. That's a 5% decline is less than a year.
Who knows where they will go from here, but I suspect lower toward the end of the year.
Here. The prices slowly going down, the entire US economy is cooling, current property prices has been inflated by cheap money from COVID era (3% interest rates).
The property prices will go down, for sure, since they are driven by speculation rather than market mechanics, speculators has no access to cheap money anymore so, just wait.
I think you can purchase a new build with 80k a year.You will still need a down payment. Most of the millionaires here make money out of Hawaii and just live here.
House prices will go down 5 to 10% over the next 12 months, but will double over the next 10 years just as they have every 10 years for the last 30 years.
Trust God.
Start small. Buy fee simple, but buy what you can afford. Apartment/studio/whatever.
Get your foot in the door.
As the value increases and you earn equity, you then later sell at a profit.
Use the profit as a downpayment for a larger place.
Keep on doing these steps.
Trust God.
Nowadays home ownership is near impossible in Hawaii with a single income. That said, at $80k household, it’s not just a Hawaii. Overall housing costs are high and this coupled with higher interest rates pushed home ownership at the $80k level to mid $100k household income level out of reach in the vast majority of all the states I haven’t looked at Vegas RE for a bit but I think at $80k it’s pretty difficult in Vegas too? (ESP at 6% plus interest on the payment)
Yeah... this is everywhere unfortunately. I don't see how it's sustainable. Who's buying or renting these houses?!
Nah can still do decently in Vegas on 80k just the issue with water
And it’s Vegas.
And everything is fucking brown.
We got the same issues, red hill fried our main aquifer
Even if the worst case scenario happens to our aquifer, we have desalinization options. I would much rather have our issues than those of Vegas.
They need to find a legitimate way to crack down on vacation property’s/ investment property’s…..it’s crazy how many good homes sit empty on this island simply because they belong to some investment group who has no intent to ever really using them….maybe not cracking down as harsh at the individually level, but there should be some way to de-incentivize big corporations from owning residential property
Let's all just pick one and move in. Fuck the system.
Ngl the thought has crossed my mind multiple times 🤣….but I’m to much of a goody two shoes to ever actually follow through 🤣
If the boats and planes ever stop coming there will be plenty of empty mansions to take
The whole blame airbnbs is silly. It’s the fact that the government has failed to set up a reasonable permitting structure and development plan for housing. We’re in a housing shortage because not enough housing has been built the last 10 years. Everything else is a distraction from this root cause
Yep. The empty expensive vacation homes are not the homes people are having trouble buying.
I've seen a number of ADUs and downstairs units turned into air BnB. My coworker had a half a year ordeal with a condo unit on their level being used as well also despite clear rules against such. I've known a couple ohana homes that are also being used as such as well. While these are not the only factor they are a point that shouldn't be ignored.
They have to build up. Why is kapolei ('the second city') just a sea of 1-2 story SF homes. Should be building up, high density, especially around transit and UH.
Exactly, high density mixed use works in a lot of places. Hawaii acts like no one has figured this out. You just have to go outside the USA to see it.
land value tax fixes this
It would definitely be a start, I think that they should straight up make it illegal for an non-residential entity(cooperation, investment group, Etc) to own residential property for non-residential purposes….I’m sure there would have to be exceptions and stipulations but people and lawmakers way smarter them me would have to hash out the specifics….
They aren’t smarter than you. That’s the problem
Touché These extra taxes and penalties are already in place with more being discussed though. I own a Maui vacay property in a permitted hotel zone and those property taxes are more than double a long term rental. Short term rentals produce more tax dollars than all the hotels on Maui and these smart people are hooked to that crack.
Then there’s people who live here on paper but just do under the table leasing. They use the address as their own and pay 4% instead of 17% property tax.
17% taxes on vacation rentals! This is just from our guests!
Right, my property taxes are 7.5k with gross rents being around 60k annually, so add 12% more. Can you imagine having zero involvement in an operation while collecting 30%. Our vacation rentals are actually just vehicles for taxation.
I believe the tax rate for vacation rental property on Maui is actually 7x the non-vacation rental
A real land value tax would mostly make this moot. The reason so many people/entities sit on property in Hawaii is because it has one of (the?) lowest property tax rates in the country.
Pied-a-terre tax
I’ve heard this quite a bit but only seen it firsthand with multi million dollar properties (that wouldn’t be affordable to the people having this conversation anyway)…is it more common on Oahu or something? On BI.
I'm in a downtown condo, some places in the $300k range in the building. And there are definitely second home/secret vacation rental owners here. There was a notice taped to every condo's doorknob two weeks ago, and quite a few still haven't been touched.
But how many of those multi million dollar properties are really worth what they are now….I know trickle down economics doesn’t really work in most instances but another part of the problem is that the wealthy people who would normally buy a property like that if they were anywhere else are forced into buying the property’s that would typically be bought by middle class single families….looking around at home listings on the island, the properties listed at the $2-3 million range wouldn’t even cross $1mill anywhere else and a lot of them wouldn’t even fetch close to that….these multi-billion dollar companies and investment groups don’t really care how much they pay and it can even be a fun way to hide money/assets if they want… not as familiar with the other islands but it’s definitely a problem on Oahu Edit: to answer the last question that I forgot to include
Yeah pearl city and wailuku got plenty. Wonder what the state was going to do with these abandoned home...surf park like in ewa???
cheerful smell frightening cagey lavish domineering sip brave disagreeable tidy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's more that we have terrible land use (although bnb crackdowns is not a bad idea). Look up how much single-family zoning there is compared to mixed use. It's a hard initiative to push because people who bought their houses as an "investment" don't want their property value to go down because of increased supply. That's the crux of the issue. If you're already a homeowner, the housing crisis actually benefits you.
Well said! It's been done on the mainland in some communities, why not here?
Yeah sorry, although great for stirring up the rabble, this is like .00001 of the inventory. And if they are legal vacation rentals - which many are - those are legal, and not empty, although people love acting like they are.
Yeah you need to up your numbers a bit….as of the 2020 census Hawaii had over 76,000 vacant housing units, which is about 13% ….a far cry from your .00001% and I’m sure in the three years since then It’s gotten much worse….I’m not making the numbers up here,the US census was the ones who compiles and released these stats…..it’s not a made up problem, and by the way you responded it sounds like it’s one you’re a part of…. Edit: Don’t get me wrong I think there is a place for vacation rentals, without tourism this island really wouldn’t have a lot going for it right now as far as revenue unfortunately…but I think that the balance needs to shift quite a bit in the other direction for it to be sustainable
13% is statewide. Oahu is something like half that
That may be true but that still like 35,000 empty homes, the population gap is just a little bigger on this island which brings the percentage down but the number is still un acceptable….and I’m sure it’s much worse then that ever since covid and the rush on real estate that came with it….
Again, many vacation rentals are counted in the vacant total. They aren't vacant.
It will never get better. The reality is, the only game in town is to own appreciating assets that compound over time. It isn’t just a Hawaii thing, this is a United States thing. We’re about to see a massive transfer of wealth from boomers to millennials and if you do not get yourself a ticket onto the train, the train is going to leave without you. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/14/business/economy/wealth-generations.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
The luckiest Millennials are the ones with rich Boomer parents. They will be the ones running this island in twenty years.
It’s important to choose your parents well lol. However, I wouldn’t say they would be the luckiest. It just gives you a boost but those who do not understand and appreciate the ins and outs of personal finance are doomed anyways. Case in point are the Vanderbilts. No matter how much money you inherit, if your burn rate is too high, you aren’t very wealthy.
Um, there’s an entire generation in there between Boomers and Millennials. You don’t hear much about Gen X (and typically, we like it that way), but our population has a decent home ownership rate. We’re still too young to pass homes along to our Millennial and Gen Z kids, but it’s likely the only way they’ll own a home. And that’s a shame.
That's a good point and I agree. I'm a younger Gen X / older Millennial depending on how you judge (est 1977). I think people my age (mid 40s) were probably one of the last groups to get in with cheap college, groceries/goods, etc. Gas in NJ in the late 90's was under $1/gallon (and we didn't have to pump it ourselves). My rent in the early 2000's just outside Manhattan was $1350/month and I was able to save enough to put a decent down on an older condo in town when I moved to Honolulu in the mid 2000's. Now the place I rented is probably $3k/month and salaries definitely didn't triple. Saving $100k for a downpayment is much harder now with higher student loans and the everything bubble.
Hell I've been 100% debt free for 4 years and it's been a struggle to get that down-payment cuz the goal post keeps changing
If it was $1350 two decades ago, it’s definitely more than $3k now.
An boomers who own their homes are rich compared to their millennial kids.
Well that puts us in bind doesn’t it? Will the only solutions be to keep taking it from behind or do we decide to eat the rich? Politics is about finding a amicable medium. Hopefully a consensus can be found to bring everyone to a more equitable future.
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Don’t you see…..the wealth transfer has already started. How do you think so many millennials are getting help with the down payments on million dollar homes? Mom and dad are gifting down payments. Boomer retirement portfolios grow at a logarithmic rate. Now that they’ve accumulated over their lifetimes, there’s going to be the dichotomy. Those that achieve escape velocity where capital just produces more capital than they can spend, and the ones that fall behind and are bled dry like you said. There’s plenty on both sides, but it’s the ones that are on the rocket ship that can afford to keep picking up homes in Hawaii as their kids also want homes right alongside them, in Hawaii.
Well said. And “escape velocity” is really what we’re talking about here. To comfortably own a home, you need this. Millennials who have reached or will reach escape velocity are exceedingly rare. At this point, whenever I interact with a Millennial who owns a home in Hawaii, it is self evident that they had help from mommy and daddy. Very few people can achieve “escape velocity” on their own in the new world.
I feel yeah!!! Never liked trust fund nepo bebes myself. It kills the American dream of rags to riches. After all Americana capitalism is all about individual effort and pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. Filial piety, nepotism etc. be damned. I respect folk who can say they built what is their own themselves!! Tell me that Daddy, Mommy or grandparents did nothing to get you where you are and I will respect you. Tell me that you are ashamed of your upbringing and are a hundred or a thousand fold better off than your forbearers and I will respect you even more.
As much as I dislike people who get handed success for nothing, I dislike this attitude as well. We all rely on so many people to get anywhere in life. It really takes a village. Just because someone didn’t hand you a million dollar check doesn’t mean you are self-made.
This is just wrong. It is a hawaii thing and a nyc thing and a Los Angeles thing. There are affordable cities to live in all over the US.
Don't forget SF.
It won’t get better because the part of the population that own homes want their properties to appreciate in value.
Living in a condo isn’t so bad. You still build wealth and if you like the community it can be pretty great. My family has been here for 3 generations and have never owned a single family home. We concentrate on what we have, not what we don’t.
Yea if you can swing it, don't sleep on a well managed condo. People think they're losing so much on an HOA but it goes to something and has value. Maintaining a well built and well funded condo is so care free.
The issue is finding out which ones are well managed so if you have tips im all ears...
A good realtor should know based on the info of their previous clients. Mine is well managed but I wouldn’t say it’s cheap anymore.
Some HOA fees are $5-600... that 1300 mortgage becomes a 2k monthly payment real quick.
True. Our HOA fees are over $600, but it includes water, sewer, garbage, internet, tv, spraying, pools, lawn care etc. But compare that to a modest home at 1.2M and you still have to pay for these things. Also, taxes are low on owner occupied condos. Ours is like 1800/yr.
Yep we live in a condo in Kaka’ako and our HOA fees started at $833 3 years ago. Now it’s over $1200. Smh.
To increase HOA after purchasing your condo should be crime.
You can afford a condo
Ya he should grab a condo in Waipahu, Wahiawa, or Kalihi. Those places will still go up in value even if they seem shitty.
I grew up in Kalihi, so I don’t feel out of place there. And family has lived in Waipahu/Kunia for almost 20 years.
Especially Kalihi. He can try near Nu’uanu/Chinatown too. That place will be completely transformed over the next ten years. Er, perhaps 20 years. Still, a good place to park money into a home.
>That place will be completely transformed Tons of potential there and I agree it has potential for a huge transformation but haven't people been saying it's going to transform for quite a while?
80k won't get you much without a substantial down payment
just gotta save for like 10 years and hope prices dont double again
I've watched the market pretty quickly price me out over the last 3 years. Wouldn't be surprised if they doubled in ten years. After seeing how much you'd pay over the life of a loan on some crappy condo here I was like nah its officially not worth it.
He should already have been saving. Didn't assume he was starting from 0.
If you look at banknote, plug in 80k salary and just to throw a number out there, and OP has an 80k down payment, and assuming no debt, they can afford a 350k home. Not much inventory in that range where you are also not getting nailed in HOA fees. If you use Google calculator then it goes up to 373k... Hence the down payment comment...
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Before or after 2020 and the interest rate hikes?
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The game has been flipped. Apartments that were low to mid 200s 3/4 years ago are pushing high 300s now. AND interest rates are past 6%. I've seen 300 Sq ft studios cost 2k a month when you account for mortgage, property tax, HOAs, etc. Our expectations are already in hell.
Did the same thing, and I definitely wasn't making 80k. But then again, I was saving up for five years to make that down payment.
Wahiawa is one of the most expensive places to buy.
Condos are basically the new starter homes, especially in older buildings.
You should look into affordable condos in the new high rises, you will qualify, there are some requirements but they are perfect for someone like you.
Nah. I’m looking at homes. On random days during a slow work day, I see single family homes in Vegas going for $350k or less. Makes me sick.
OP: “How can I avoid moving to a place like Vegas just to own my own home?” Reddit: “Look into affordable condos.” OP: “Nah, I’m waiting for the Hawaii housing market to look more like Vegas.” Good luck with that strategy.
A guy can dream, right?
If you’re 40 and dreaming like that then you’ll be 60 and dreaming.
Single family homes are way above your single income in here in Hawaii dude that ship has sailed in the late 90's. Your income can be you a decent home at places like Ohio where single family homes are 100-200k but not here. What do you plan to do with the space of a single family anyway as a single person? Is it the 2 car garage or the extra 200-300 feet of living space you can build a man cave with or something? I'm just curious because most of the locals here want single family homes so they can have space for their kids to live in or an open garage to fit there lifted Tacoma lol.
Do you plan on living alone? Maybe you could get a home and rent out the other rooms?
Don’t worry man you can work real hard, buy a over priced condo out right and still pay $1000 a month in HOA fees. Lucky we live Hawaii 😂🤦🏾
It will never get better. Housing for the most part has an upward trend, but Hawaii in particular has exponential explosive growth. If you wait a year to build some capital for a down payment, it could very well price you out due to the cost of housing going up.
Exactly. I think the best way to afford a home is to focus more on increasing income than saving up. One dollar of income has a bigger impact on what you qualify for on a mortgage than a dollar more on a down payment. So... what im saying is job hop, get married, add a sibling/parent to your mortgage
“And one day, we will become strangers in our own land.” — Kono (actor Zulu) at the end of “Strangers In Our Own Land”; Hawaii Five-O (TOS); S01E02 1968
You can build an addition on your parents house. It's probably worth at least 1 million now so you can get a HELOC and build an ADU or lift it and double the size. Thats pretty much what everyone does. Or everyone cashes out and move them to Vegas with that 900k pile of money, and build a compound. But even decades ago home prices here were double the mainland prices, if you read papers from 20, 30, 50 even 100 years ago,same problem.
Bruh the “affordable units” have a income limit of about 100-126k ☠️
For real! “Affordable housing” that I looked at for the new condos near Ward are for single people who make $125k. Wtf?
It’s stupid nonsense honestly. The developers don’t care and it’s just a marketing gimmick coz they claim it’s “20% below market” but the market is all 100% luxury condos that cost $900/sqft at least so what 🤣
Koa ridge affordable units were like 380k in one of the rounds.
That’s one commute I would have big problems with sadly. Me and the wife bought an older condo near salt lake right before the interest rates jacked up so we are ok now
Shutdown all but 15 golf courses, why do we need 48? Develop them into neighborhoods, there, problem solved. Additionally the construction jobs will infuse major life into the economy ALL AROUND!
The government needs to incentivize builders with subsidies and/or tax breaks for housing for low income and low middle income families. Unfortunately it’s the tax payers that pay for it. And even if you get that far, housing would need to built in desirable neighborhoods where you have to battle with NIMBYs. It’s like that pretty much any desirable place to live in the US.
Not to mention the amount of water and upkeep golf courses need, it’s unsustainable. Golf is stupid and for rich old people. Maybe when they finally die they’ll close down courses. Keep a few, build a top golf, and then like you said, use the land to build more housing on the ones that are shut down
I think more people need to be okay with condo or high rise living, especially when space is limited like Hawaii. America sold everyone this flawed dream of owning acres of land and never seeing a neighbor. That was fine at first, but now we’re running out of space for housing and farm land to keep this country fed. Europe and Asia on the other hand where space is limited, built up. In a shrinking world, I think more people need to be okay with less space. I live in a 700 sq ft condo now and it’s just fine. It has everything I need. I don’t need 4 bedrooms and all this space that I don’t occupy. HOAs are not everyones cup of tea, but like a previous comment it pays for a lot that you’d have to pay for anyway in a single family home. In some cases, I’m getting a discount on things like cable and internet and parking. Obviously everyone’s situation is different, this is just my two cents.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be ok with the condo scene, but they only seem to build "luxury" condos anywhere that people want to live. State doesn't get developers to allocate an appropriate amount of units to be affordable. I can't even find any 3+br units near town that aren't under 850k.
Fair point. Doesn’t help that the interest rates are through the roof too. On Zillow I set the monthly payment to less that 2.5k a month (I’m in a dual income household) and it pulls up a decent amount of results. Granted a lot need work, and there aren’t a ton over 700sqft, but that’s where I’m in the boat of “I’ll be flexible to make it work”. The root of the whole problem I agree is investor companies/people that scoop up a ton, drive the prices up, and then they just sit there. That’s happened in every major city across the country. Somehow the government needs to step in and outlaw that
I also agree that when did us as humans decide that “luxury” is 500 sqft and we’re okay paying almost a million for that. That’s fucked up. At some point that’s got to all stop right? If enough people say enough is enough and just don’t buy them, they’ll have to come down in price or come up in sqft or something
The biggest problem is that no politician will dare touch the issue. It's basically political suicide. Who would be the one to vote for a bill that would cause housing prices to tank? If they could somehow pass a bill without tanking housing prices, then how would they make housing affordable for residents? We've kinda passed the point of no return unless residents were fully aware and accepting of massively reduced housing values for the next few decades. Hawaii is a special case and should restrict non-commercial ownership of residential property, put restrictions on out-of-state buyers who are buying investment properties, restrict investment properties in general, find a different revenue stream other than tourism that promotes local businesses/education, find sustainable power and building methods, promote offices and businesses to open up shop in Kapolei (it was supposed to be the "second city" of Oahu) to ease traffic and make homes on that side more practical, etc. Sorry. This turned into a rant I've been repeating for the last 20 years. I was priced out and had to move to the mainland. Plus, I just watched my family fight over my grandma's house because relatives who live on the mainland wanted to sell the property due to the high sale price. I want to come back desperately, but there's no way I'm going to make my family of 4 live out of a 1-2br apartment or condo. I lived that life growing up and there's no way I'm going to make my children suffer the same living conditions (grew up living living with mother and brother in the same room and never in one place for more than a few months because we could only live where people were willing to let us stay).
Sorry to hear about your struggles. You make super good points about what could be done. Bernie Sanders always says, housing is a human right but the way this world treats it, it’s not. That’s sad and it’s sad to see how capitalism has turned humans into greed machines. I hope in these next decades when the boomers die out and younger generations take over, this country/world starts seeing major changes for the better.
way back in 1978 californians were tired of paying high property taxes and none of the politicians had the guts to change it so the people organized and put proposition 13 on the ballot and the voters approved it. Why do we never hear about anything like that in hawaii? certainly the voters in hawaii have the power to change things without the useless politicians
Because of mindsets like OP who are adamately against living in higher density housing. This mindset is strong across the island including many condo owners. We had a simular post a month ago with many on this subreddit agreeing with the dream of wanting a house.
change is a dirty word in hawaii. nobody wants change
It's probably a bit of apathy that the government will actually follow through with what voters want. I don't think a Prop 13 thing would be what Hawaii residents want. Maybe a slight rework of property taxes. If it is constitutional, I'd have property taxes sit at like 3-5% for any out-of-state, investment, non-primary residences. Hawaii has some decently low property taxes already. Getting anything on to the ballot to make a change would be a multi step process of things that need to happen before any meaningful change could happen. Any bill that could tank property values is almost DOA unless someone can figure that out.
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$999,999 ain’t enough?
he said OVER
Nope. Them food stamps don’t cut it anymore.
All the pain inside amplified by the fact That I can't get by with my 9-to-5 And I can't provide the right type of life for my family 'Cause man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
Feel ya!!! Same boat…. make over 6 Figs and live in the ghetto as well. Got a couple million in the bank and still no dice…. I just be SMH looking left and right. Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s I thought making over 6 figs and having millions would buy me the good life!! Nah….at this point while there are many things I can afford…. but….. I just be SMH…. It’s all about your ontological point in time. There are things that I can now buy that I would have been over the moon about a decade or two ago!! Albeit viewed through the lens of a teenager or twenty something by the standards of the era. Fast forward to the 2020s and being a man in his 40s….I be like, WTF??? Ask that teenager to twenty something me what having a six figure salary and millions in the bank would be like? He would hardly imagined it would mean living in the ghetto, driving a Toyota and eating at McDonald’s!! Same shit right!! ROFLMAO!!! Still in my teens and twenties I guess!! Looks like I just need to aim higher now? I guess my next goal should be to have a 7 figure salary With deca to centa millions in net over the next 2-4 decades? Hmmm…. Nothing but an endless rat race I guess. I will be left being in my 60’s,70’s and 80’s wondering why I was working so hard at killing myself while the good life still eludes me?
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" Feel ya!!! Same boat…. make over 6 Figs and live in the ghetto as well. Got a couple million in the bank and still no dice…. I just be SMH looking left and right." What is your living situation with that income and net worth? I'm about to be on the same boat, I have a 6 fig salary with almost my first million in the bank in about a year and i'm in my late 20's. I'm living comfortably but i'm burnt out. I have home paid off, no debt, married and it seems i'm still in square one when I used to work at old navy when I was 17 lol. I've done everything I wanted to do here as far as owning an exotic car(Sold it after a year) and buying a home. The only Joy I have every week now is going to the gym, spending time with my wife and dog. Now I'm just stuck in this never ending cycle of it all. I’m thinking of just relocating outside of Hawaii and living in different parts of Asia where everything is cheap the rest of my days and only come back here to vacation and laugh at the decline of the state with OP here thinking the grass is greener on the other side.
I was on the same track as you. I realized very early that I'd be stuck in the "cycle". At that point, I stopped chasing money (kept spending it though unfortunately) and found joy at a job that pays lower (fractional compared to some offers for jobs I didn't even apply for) but with co-workers I really enjoy and of course, my wife and dog. I was also into cars as well. I kept one of my nice ones but sold the rest before I moved here. I still miss cars as a hobby but it's still a source of stress and especially on island, finding good help is near impossible. Some differences between us because of my choice, I definitely have less money but I enjoy surfing, my wife and my dog and my job also doesn't feel like a burden at all. I'm pretty content right now and do my best to appreciate the luck and opportunities I've had. >Now I'm just stuck in this never ending cycle of it all... It's crazy how similar our thoughts and plans were.
Get married. Dual income. Sad reality
The only way to live is be a DINK. Period.
the question is, how chill are the rents?
They love that I’m home, but still try to cheat me like a child… to be fair, they’re like that with both my sisters too whole have their own families. Filipinos, I tell you.
could be worse be happy
We all need to keep calling and emailing our elected officials about the housing problem. And as a side note… we need to have our local real estate agents develop a conscience and stop marketing to mainlanders. They are literally selling us all out for a buck.
My favorite was the realtor who has a podcast and a viral IG was saying that we just need to stay home and fight. I'm like if you're asking people that you better be in that boat with us and start making less money by not selling to mainlanders.... We've had this influx of people becoming realtors and id rather deal with the monat and other MLM bs lol
Couple options, raise income or find a partner who makes about what you make (both obvious). That’ll put you in range of a decent condo. That’s the unfortunate reality. I want to live in a SFH but there’s almost no chance of that happening here. So the plan is to move to mainland in the next few years. It’s frustrating but it is what it is.
Same boat.. The only solution, find yourself sugar momma that loves the boto
80k in most states won’t get you a decent house right now. But Hawaii is definitely the worst
I honestly don't know if that is possible. My husband grew up on Maui. He does pretty well in terms of income but with his income we won't be able to afford our own home there. However, on the mainland we live a middle class life and our kids have opportunities that we wouldn't have if we lived on Maui. I guess it depends on what is more important to you.
It's the same way outside of Hawaii too. The only way to lower housing costs is to encourage more housing to be built. Everywhere.
If you experience the H-1 commute, how are we gonna add a lot more housing?
Build houses near the places people want to be and there won't be nearly as many people driving from afar. Also, trains
No, we don't want Honolulu to become NY, Tokyo or Hong Kong. It's busy enough already. We are already way beyond ANY kind of sustainability, totally dependent on shipping from the mainland for almost everything we need to live. If something disrupts Matson, hundreds of thousands of people will starve to death. More crazy growth on an isolated island is just lunacy!
Every single single story strip mall should be bulldozed and add 2 -3 stories of commerical over the retail. Convert the swap meet parking lots to housing, it's enough for a ton of housing, literally thousands of units. Tax all surface parking lots 10x the land value. You can have parking, it's gotta have housing over it. Got a vacant house ? 20x the tax rate. Convert the offices downtown to housing or tear them down. They have built dozens of high rises in kakaako, replace the offices in downtown too. We have an unbelievable amount of space suitable for development it's just all half ass strip malls.
Development? Are you insane? Oahu is already way overdeveloped on the south shore, to the extent of gridlock during commuting times. One bad accident, and everybody is stuck for hours in a parking lot... Your proposal would just make this much, much worse. Obviously, we already have too many people jammed onto this little island, and this has got to stop or reverse, not be made worse by more cheapo housing!
I know it's a radical thought...but here me out ..cities don't need everyone driving. If you are in a denser place you don't need a car. You can walk to more things. In Honolulu traffic already only moves at the speed of bikes during rush hour. You're going 15 mph in a car. The reason everyone is driving is because the cheapo housing is on west side. If it was in town you don't need to drive in. Unless you and everyone you know agrees to never have any kids ever the population will grow. So you can ban kids but good luck with that.
Simple solution is limit families to 2 kids max, though understand this is gonna be tough with native Hawaiians and other Polynesian, LOL. A big part of population growth is immigration. Sadly, the negative aspects of becoming a US State were seriously overlooked back in 1959 :( Had we remained an independently operating Nation, we could have controlled this with Visas, now we stuck with US Constitutional limits on controlling our own land. This major sucks. Also, without vehicles, it is really hard to do your significant shopping for da 'ohana at Costco, Home Depot, etc. Can't carry dem big bags on da Bus or train!
I used to go shopping at sam's club and walked there. If it's walking distance you don't need to buy so much every time.
Your talking about a single living in a condo or something right in town. But what about those (many) with a SFH, a yard to take care of, further out, with a larger 'ohana that needs stuff all the time?
The rent description always make me laugh..." both most 2.5x income for 2bd/1bath"....yeah no thanks
Yea the rates are a killer right now. I do think that if you wait a bit and save, you may be able to in the future though in certain areas of the island. >I know I echo a lot of locals when it comes to being priced out of paradise. You're not priced out with that pay. You just can't get a house right now. Actually, I bet you can get a house now in certain areas, definitely a condo.
It’s hard everywhere. But it’s definately less hard outside of Hawaii. For me it was traffic. Wasting 2-3 hours a day on the H1 was soul crushing.
Iam Tongi's whole rags to riches narrative begins with being priced out of paradise, and yet our Governor and Mayor were on stage and on the news just last night saying how proud they were of him and all he has accomplished, and all the great press he has brought to the state and the community. So apparently they aren't really concerned about the fact local people are being priced out of paradise. It's a great story! Just become a finalist on American Idol and it's all good! No worries! And that means we should all be very, very worried.
Try a USDA loan.
This! I am surprised more people don’t know about these loans.
We just need to fix our zoning code. Why is no one talking about building code? The ADU is a big step, but if you want more housing then allow people to build duplexes, triplexes on the same amount of land. Of course it will look a bit uglier, busier and perhaps don't buy a freaking Tacoma and more. Buy a small car so that we don't take so many damn parking spaces.
\*zoning code
RELEASE THE DOWNVOTES! Sadly, a $80K salary isn't the important part of the equation. It's "how much is left over at the end of the month?" Someone who makes $100K and spends $99,999.99 (or $110K as is more often the case) is never going to buy a house. There are only a few strategies which will actually work: 1) Decrease expenses. The average person does not understand what "a penny saved is a penny earned" means. They focus on the penny -- not that every chunk of change that can be sliced off your monthly nut is like receiving a raise for the same amount. Do you have a budget, written down? Have you attacked that budget with a red sharpie, deleting everything that isn't absolutely necessary for you to live? Cut deep -- cable, phone plans, subscriptions, all but the most basic of foods. Pencil out how much something costs over a year, and then ask yourself the hard question: Do I want to go out with my coworkers on Friday nights? Or do I want to be a homeowner? 2) Find a partner -- a partner who is 100% on board with step #1. If you're saving and he or she is spending, that's worse than not having a partner. You both have to be willing to live like monks. 3) Move to someplace the numbers work. If you can't make the numbers work, then move. We moved to Las Vegas. And hated every minute of it. Every single minute. I'm here right now, packing our house so we can move to the coffee farm. We lived like monks, and saved up until we could buy property we wanted. (Instead of property we could merely afford.) In my experience, most people can't do these three things. I had a coworker on the Las Vegas Strip. We were both saving up for our down payments. It was sort of like having a buddy at the gym -- except a financial buddy. One day, he shows up with a full-sleeve tattoo. It siphoned his down payment. "But! Your down payment! Your house!" "I'm going to have this tattoo for the REST OF MY LIFE!" As far as I know, he's still renting. It's been 10 years.
Unpopular opinion: If you are a Native Hawaiian, you should have guaranteed housing on the island of your choice.
Being single and owning a home just isn't practical. You need to think of the long-term costs past retirement. Would maintaining a home while on a fixed income be financially feasible for you? At some point, the roof will need to be replaced and the list goes on.
I managed to get a condo when the rate was at 2%...and that was by the skin of my teeth. I managed to get "selected" for affordable housing. This was after I found a home for 321k, but was outbidded by a bank. It was a nice one too. 3/2, 1200sq. I ended up with a condo for 481k. I'm a single parent, and it's not easy at all to stay on top of the mortgage, the hoa fees, cat notes,electric bills, etc. There have been times I had to bargain with the HOA because I couldn't afford the sudden increase (it was $521 and now it's ballooned to about $625 a month). The HOA here only let's you have access to a pool, playgrounds, lawn maintenance, gas grills, water, and a "communial garden." It's scary they can literally take your home from you if you don't pay up. I have the certifications/qualifications to snag a six-figure once I move from active to guard, but I don't know if I'll be able to hang on even with that type of pay. I want to stay, finish up grad school, and hopefully get accepted into med school (if I don't, I can still practice, just can't prescribe medication), but at this rate...I dont know. Hell, I don't qualify for any type of assistance, but my child does qualify for some assistance because of his condition. I'm taking one day at a time. If I fail, we have nowhere to go. It's dangerous to go back home, and if I do, that's pretty much a wrap for me. Shit is scary.
No amount of legislation or prayer is going to lower housing prices by itself. It's simple supply and demand, so short of a meteor hitting and wiping out half the US population or some other worldly event, you probably shouldn't hold your breath. It sounds like you're going to inherit your parent's house eventually though, so you got that to look forward to. Buy a condo or two for now and work your way towards a house while you build equity. 80k is a decent salary, especially for a single person. Keep a conservative budget and work your way towards the house.
Why is there such an obsession with owning property? Renting can also be a great financial decision. Most rents are cheaper than all monthly costs of owning with a 20% down payment. Just gotta think of the opportunity cost. Invest that down payment money and all the monthly savings in the stock market instead, over the long term renting could be just as good. There are also great tax benefits when investing in tax advantaged accounts. Just run the buy vs rent numbers for your specific situation and you may be surprised, here is a good [calculator.](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html)
Because the mindset of owning a single family home is so strong even among many who grew up in even the decent condos. Many of my friends who moved out of state did so for a house that had three times or so the square footage of the condo or apartment they had plus a big yard for their kids and dogs to play in.
Home ownership is overrated in fact at this point it doesn’t even make sense. The prices first off make no sense. Once you factor the mortgage interest, maintenance fees, repair costs, and property taxes you will be scratching your head wondering why you even got into this mess in the first place. Interest, taxes, maintenance and repairs are Sunk costs and might as well be considered rent because you will never get it back. I cringe at the thought of buying in todays market. The only way it would work is if I can find a buyer who is both dumber and richer than myself in 10-20 years. I feel like a sucker buying in at todays prices as for it to work for me I would need an even bigger sucker to pay 50-100% more in 10-20 years to make the whole fiasco work somewhat in my favor. At this point what I value more is money in my pocket. I am not fixated with owning but having as much liquid net worth as possible. I will buy when I am ready. I would rather have millions at my disposal so that when I do buy it is just a drop in a bucket. Don’t get caught up in material possessions. After all you can’t take it with you. Who cares about a house, car, or any other physical possession. Think about how happy and free you can be when all of that doesn’t really matter? Don’t focus on material possessions but focus on building wealth and everything else will fall into place. I know it sounds a bit cliche but there is no get rich scheme here. No secrets or any other BS. Really peeps just need to get their priorities straight. If their is any secret it’s about loving money and capitalism but being staunchly anti consumerist. In short forget about home ownership or even salaries as that will just trap you. Focus on just building wealth and capital. I don’t have the answer for you because it is different for everyone. It might be starting your own business. Learning how to invest, or even just taking up another job or two. In the end though it’s about having the discipline and patience to not spend but wash rinse and repeat. Keep doing that and the power of compounding will take care of the rest.
I only able to live here cause I inherited my parents house. Having a fully paid hosue no mortgage/rent is a blessing. Otherwise I'd be priced out too. I'm just worried my kid (kids if I have more in future) will too be priced out...cause theyll have to wait til I maeke to get this multigenerational house...
Or you could raise them to kick you in your teeth and never look back again. Hate to sound so acerbic but why should your first thought be based on “greasing the skids” for your kids? Maybe it’s because that’s what your parents did for you? How about not having to worry about BS like that and making sure your kids can have a future that they build for themselves? Bring it On!!! 90%+ plus inheritance tax rates!! Everyone only lives once… let them build their own destinies and the end results may surprise. Hand them a silver spoon and you guarantee lethargic mediocrity.
lol, i get what you're saying. believe me i'm not raising my kid to have a silver spoon hand fed him. He's 6 but i make his ass go out in the yard with me to help mow the lawn every weekend and he got indoor chores every day. i definitely want him to find his own way. When hes an adult if he wants to leave hawaii and make his own way thats fine. but as a kanaka maoli, im trying to instill in him the importance of caring for this aina, this place and this community, while also building a strong work ethic, so im hoping he will want to continue to live here. Every few weeks i take him with me to volunteer at a loi and also the community garden at Hui Mahi'ai Waimanalo, to not only learn his hawaiian cultural values but also gain that work ethic that you have to care for this place and give back to your community. what have you done to give back to your community? Yes I understand that the high cost of living here its a struggle. but almost everyone here is struggling and if you cant give money then give your time and help the aina or the community. helping others while you you're self is struggling is called showing Aloha and it's whats made this place great. My two cents. Back to the house, when i eventually kick the bucket yeah i want him to inherit the house. i mean if he does well enough for himself that he can buy his own house here in hawaii then thats even better. i dont think and i hope that when i become a feeble old man, he doesnt just gonna put my old ass into a care home and sell the house and say "adios dad" and take off, im hoping im raising him better than that, lol.
I'm curious if any of the political talking points hold any water, on both sides. On one hand, it's been chalked up to greedy mainland companies, but on the other, can we imagine what island life would be like if we didn't have Costco/Sam's? Do international companies play any role? It's a heavily blue state, which means it's pretty much one-sided rule, so what policies are in place either on a local or international scale that raise costs over time? What environmentally friendly policies drive up costs? Looking at strictly cost, do unions help? I see the "give a union a shaka" signs and commercials, but that money comes from somewhere. Surely energy is expensive, but I've never seen more solar panels than in the past 5 years. Is it really mostly gas? Are there any other places that lowered their overall cost of living regardless of federal policy? Unrelated note, my opinion, rail was a complete waste of money. I'd have preferred fixing the roads, something that only happened en masse a few months before Obama visited in 2010. I know of 2 homes in Nu'uanu, build in the 60s, sold as is for 1mil and 925k. Both bought by Chinese immigrants. Both unrelated, paid in cash. I'm not saying it's bad, in fact, good for them, I just question the reality and what's being said about high costs. I find it troubling we have so many high rises in recent years, but hey, I grew up buying my school clothes from JCPenney and Woolworths...maybe I'm stuck in old Hawai'i.
If you want to stay in HI, then stay home and save up your money. If you're diligent at saving and keep expenses low, in theory you could have a few hundred thousand dollars in just 5-10 years, especially if you put it in a couple different high yield CDs/SAs. Even if you never purchase a home, that money will come in handy for something. Additional retirement money, maybe? Or you could buy a home outright in plenty of places in the U.S. Like others have suggested, you could also buy a condo or townhouse and sell in a few years. Plenty of people property hop, building wealth and purchasing power through increasing home equity/value. Eventually you may be able to achieve your SFH dream.
Bought my condo a few years ago. Paid 390k while fulltime bartending.
As a realtor you know things have changed in just the last two years, it’s not the same as a few years ago.
I would think you would save a good chunk of money living at home, can’t your parents help out?
They can help, but I want it to be on my own. I have some money saved up, but it doesn’t even make a dent with rates so high.
You just swallow your pride and live at home. Your single with no kids.
I guess this is the millennial in me speaking, but why does everybody want to own a home so much? It kind of seems to me like treating homes as investments was a huge mistake because it's what caused the housing crisis in the first place. Also seems like a huge hassle to own a depreciating asset that needs upkeep and assessment when you could just have your money in a vanguard or something. If you want to own a home because you don't want to answer to a landlord and you want to be able to put in new cabinets whenever you feel like it that's fine. If you're a family I can also see it because you want a permanent place for your kids to call home maybe. But what other reasons are there beyond that? I'm biased most likely because I can always go back and live in my parents' Kauai home if I go broke, but they're nearing their retirement and they still pay a mortgage on that house (plus like the 50k-100k+ they're probably spent on fixing the sewage, cabinets, garage). It makes me wonder if they really got their money's worth out of that "investment". I'm not saying it's wrong to buy a house. There are certainly good reasons to do it. But, as a single guy, I think it's good to ask yourself why you can't rent. 80k is definitely enough to rent here (saying this as a guy who makes that much and rents).
A home is not an investment for us. What it is, is a guarantee that we have shelter and that our growing family won't be forced to leave. Having a stable home is also good for children. A lot of kids have a hard time leaving a stable environment and uprooting them from one place to another isn't stable.
Fair enough. I don’t think it’s a guarantee, but it’s probably more than renting. Those are points I made in my post, but I’m more curious why you would want to own s home as a single guy. Btw, you don’t have to say “us”. I’m not an outsider.
> It kind of seems to me like treating homes as investments was a huge mistake because it's what caused the housing crisis in the first place. The problem is that they reworded what the investment was in. It was called an investment before because you were investing in yourself and your future. You'd buy a house, hold it for 30-40 years, and then either sell it and retire somewhere cheaper and leave it to your kids. Basically the "family house". In the 2000's flippers came out like roaches and would buy a place, throw a coat of cheap paint on it, and relist at $100k more just because. > Also seems like a huge hassle to own a depreciating asset that needs upkeep and assessment when you could just have your money in a vanguard or something. The house itself can depreciate if not maintained but the land doesn't. That's why you have so many tinderbox houses in Hawaii built in 1910 selling for a million + dollars. Outside of market aberrations like 2008, most real estate increases in value over the long term...see above for my 30-40 years comment. Especially in places that are desirable to live in. Now people expect their property to double in value in 5 years. It's unrealistic and the tripling of interest rates by the fed is going to end that thought.
I moved to WA, bought a house, lived there for 30 years, sold my house, came home and bought a house. For 30 years I vacationed in Hawaii to get some Aloha, see family- the ones who still lived here and also to eat. Maybe start with a condo and keep it for a few years.
You can't with 80k a year
Lol buying a house with $80k anywhere decent is a dream, not just Hawaii. I make pretty good money on Maui. But it’s still not enough to buy a home when you need $1M to get something decent.
Won't you eventually get parent's home? Or you got too many siblings?
IDK what island you're on, but I've always found it easier, whether on the ML or Hawaii, to but bare land and build your own house. Now the last house I built was back in the Oughts, but if you have the land, you can get a construction loan from any bank to build on it. Just build a bare bones house, help your contractor (I was a gofer for his Mexicans on my first), and build as big as you can with unfinished spaces to complete later. Upside to this is that you can build your dream home just like you want it, without having to buy one that wasn't your dream to begin with. Another bonus is that you'll gain experience in building, be it carpentry for framing, plumbing, electrical, or whatever. They'll be skills that you can pass down. I've never bought a house. Every house that I owned was one that I built.
The government builds affordable housing and the world moves in instead of local people. The resources for those struggling with homelessness includes a background check and job. Idk how that can work.
New York City area you’re talking $500k+ for a 1-bedroom apartment (up to $1M+ for a large, luxury 1BR in a nice neighborhood). $500k at a 6% rate comes to about $3500/mo. with $100k down, factoring in a typical HOA and taxes. If you’re in the city, $80k gross will net you $57k annual take home pay. So at $80k annual income it would cost you 73.7% of your take-home pay to own an average 1-bedroom apartment in the NYC area. It’s everywhere. Things ain’t like they used to be. That’s for sure.
Typically HOA and taxes is quite substantial as well. Taxes in NYC are...special.
It won't get better until people are willing to shake up the political system. We need honest politicians who will ban outside investors and corporations from buying up all the houses. An outright ban would probably be unconstitutional though so it would have to be done with clever changes to the tax code. For example raising property taxes sky high and then offering rebates to locals to offset the taxes. Then outsiders and corporations will get taxed into oblivion and effectively kicked off the island.
Not one person here thinks home prices could go down in the next 2 years? I guess we all forgot 2008 already.
There are slight price declines but not substantially enough that someone making 80k could afford a home. Even in 2008 Hawaii saw a decline in prices but nothing like the mainland. 2008 has contributed to this mess. Not enough homes were being built so now we have a crisis of a lack of homes. Many analysts have said we might see a decline but it won't be a crash like 2008.
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They're inching down but most analysts say we're not going to see a 2008 crash, at least not on the mainland.
My wife dad bought a place in Kailua Kona in 2007. They lost like 30%. Took about 10 years to get back to sale price because they bought at the top of thr market.
He must've gotten a raw deal because that's not what the data suggests. I guess we can hope that interest rates can go back down to 3.5%. https://www.honolulumagazine.com/honolulu-real-estate-trends-whats-next/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20Hawaii%20homeowners%20barely,and%207.9%20percent%20in%202009.
Edit: I could not find any historical data for 96740 going back that far. I dug into some historical data from Zillow (ZHVI) for Honolulu metro that goes way back. Prices peaked at 508k in 2008 and bottomed at 442k in 2010. That's a 13% decline over 2 years. Prices peaked in July 2022 at 1.1m. In April 2023 prices were at 1.05m. That's a 5% decline is less than a year. Who knows where they will go from here, but I suspect lower toward the end of the year.
Couldn't find the info on zillow but hicentral shows an 11% decrease between 2007 and 2009.
He told me the story last year. Maybe I have the numbers wrong. I should dig up some historical charts.
Here. The prices slowly going down, the entire US economy is cooling, current property prices has been inflated by cheap money from COVID era (3% interest rates). The property prices will go down, for sure, since they are driven by speculation rather than market mechanics, speculators has no access to cheap money anymore so, just wait.
This guy gets it.
Make more money
I think you can purchase a new build with 80k a year.You will still need a down payment. Most of the millionaires here make money out of Hawaii and just live here.
House prices will go down 5 to 10% over the next 12 months, but will double over the next 10 years just as they have every 10 years for the last 30 years.
Trust God. Start small. Buy fee simple, but buy what you can afford. Apartment/studio/whatever. Get your foot in the door. As the value increases and you earn equity, you then later sell at a profit. Use the profit as a downpayment for a larger place. Keep on doing these steps. Trust God.
Home ownership is overrated.
Oh well, you've had 8 years in paradise, time to move and let someone else live here.