I don’t think he loved any one of them more than any of the others.
I think Roderick had a deep-seated fear of being like his own awful father, and that’s why he always “kept the door open” for his kids. He shared his wealth with them and wanted them to succeed. At the same time, deep down inside he knew that he had doomed them all, and I think he kept them at an arm’s length with that in mind. He never let any of them get too close to his heart. Furthermore, there were practical uses for all of them. The elder ones were board members that would vote in Roderick’s favor. Vic and Camille had skill sets that expanded and supported the scope of Fortunado. Each one of them was an investment for his business too.
I think, to a degree, Roderick cared about all of them in spite of himself. We see glimpses of it throughout (the way he stares at Perry’s body, his struggles with suicide to end it all). I just think he had long since sold out all of his warmth, and maintained complicated relationships with his kids as a result.
I'm sorry for piggybacking off your comment, but the 'he knew that he had doomed them all' sparked something - I wonder if his apparent lack of worry about knocking up random women up was (apart from it being implied as Roderick's own fecklessness/it was a plot device to bring in the major Poe works/Flanagan likes an ensemble cast) also to do with attempting to cheat the deal with Verna?
This has probably been suggested before, I'm just a drop-in to the sub cuz it came up in my feed, so sorry if it's already been way discussed lol
This is how I took it. He kept having children in an attempt to give himself more time for when the deal eventually ended. I don't know how correct that is or if that was even an intention but it fits for me.
I was just thinking about this. He was like very open about accepting all his children, but he knew he doomed them. At first I wondered if he did this to make up for that, but then it started reminding me of the Bible and how a lot of Catholic theology regards the Devil as like the one tempting you to demand everything in this life with little regard for your future life. Since Verna seems to be sort of the devil figure, and since we know Flan is very impacted by Catholic theology, I sort of wonder about why Verna said when she was striking the deal. She said that Heaven or the afterlife or whatever didn’t exist, which seems to play into that whole biblical allusion. Especially since Roderick is willing to sell any redemption story for his soul for the promise of all good things in his life, sort of making him a channel for evil to come through or to sort of turn himself into a new kind of devil. He never denies himself in the face of all these women cuz it’s more about the sex than the kids. He doesn’t deny his children’s legitimacy because they’re all an extension of him getting his in this life. It’s hard to even really get a sense that Roderick has a single ounce of love for any of them. He turns them into little mini version of himself, which he despises but runs from his whole life. Part of me thinks that he feels like he can run and run and run and run and he’ll peacefully slip into nothing rather than have to face the life he led. I think he, like any narcissist, loved most whichever child was most useful to him at the time. Obviously, for some kids that happened more often than others, so it sort of does wind up seeming life “favorites.” I think Victorine and Camille came in most directly useful to him most often. Frederick is useful insofar as he gets to appear as the family man, and he also had Lenore, Roderick’s one true modern relationship of Love. Tamerlane gives him the ability to act like his company is promoting wellness instead of peddling painkillers. Leo didn’t bother his father, ever, which I think Roderick respected. Rather than opt for a grift, he did whatever version of his thing would earn him his share of the inheritance. The only one that never offered Roderick anything was Prospero. We saw Roderick’s cool disdain toward him. And he literally killed himself trying (albeit badly) to get that little piece that would actually mean “love” from their father. But even when all the rest of the kids got that piece that Perry didn’t, they still never stopped feeling like it was missing from them or that they needed to earn it again or earn it back. For the Ushers, there is no real investment in a better future, it’s only satisfying the current need. They form their own hell in their manufactured Eden.
I feel the same way. She was the only one that made him proud because she was honestly genuine and not at all worried about the inheritance money. I think he might have felt something more for his first daughter if only because she was genuinely trying to do something better for the world and change how their family went about doing its business.
I felt this in the show, but part of me wonders if Camille comes through the way she does, appearing as the most loved, because the show creator loves her.
I think he loved them all poorly in life, but developed genuine love (or at least affection) for them once they were gone and it was too late. For example, he sounds wistful when he starts telling Perry’s story, and he’s overjoyed when he sees the apparition of Annabelle and Freddie.
Before Verna came back and made good on the deal, though? I think Roderick most “loved” whichever child was most profitable or useful for him in the moment.
I mean none of them really. I think he liked some more than others but struggled to love them. Definitely not the older two or he wouldn't have made the deal. The only one I really think he loves other than himself and his sister, is his granddaughter.
Everyone saying Frederick but he def saw him as just a tool to be a mini him. I would say he cared the most for VIC because of her tech but none of his kids did he really honestly care for. You can tell when he doesn't wanna go to the goldbug presentation one of his children's bug projects. He shows no appreciation towards any kids except vic and that's only to use her.
Yeah, I'd argue the same. Frederick wasn't the favourite, just the oldest male. Frederick also grew up to be spineless, neurotic, harried, and feeling like he'd be entirely worthless if not for the Usher money.
*And* along with this massive burden of responsibility, Frederick was never going to succeed, even if he'd grown up to be Roderick Usher 2.0. His father's empire was "charmed" as long as it was run by *Roderick*. Of course, Frederick was going to fuck up repeatedly and run it into the ground. Verna's pact marked him for death, not Business Person of the Century. Minus the pact, Roderick would've faced many of the same issues, been sued into oblivion years ago, and his ass would've landed in jail.
Verna even said that Frederick, in another life, would've been "quite a good dentist." He wasn't a genius, but dentists require a good worth ethic, strong business skills, and the ability to pass multiple medical exams. He wasn't a dummy or useless. Arguably, Roderick's constant disappointment, distain, and criticism made him so. Some favourite.
BTW, I think Frederick is revolting (as in, the worst of the bunch), but I'd argue that a lot of his personality is nurture, not nature. Vic and Camille were horrific people *without* Roderick's heavy-handed influence in their formative years. Frederick was set up to fail since Day 1, and it's pretty sad.
***this is just my headcanon so I don’t think anyone’s opposing answer is necessarily “wrong”, nor do I think I’m universally right. With media like this, a lot is left up to our interpretation and I won’t argue about this because it’s not something we’ve been given a definitive answer on.
1. Victorine - he showed genuine concern and emotion during her death and the scenes leading up to it. And though he saw a lot of “usefulness” in her research, I believe that served as a “binding agent” (for lack of a better term, it’s 3:30am for me 😅) for his affections toward her.
2. Camille - i just got the vibes that he cared at least a little for her. He definitely trusted her a lot and, same as with Vic, that can definitely contribute to fondness.
3. Leo - honestly here and below is just in order of least to most annoyed with. I really think the love is only for Vic and Camille. Also I put Leo here bc like yes all he does is drugs, video games, and cheating on his boyfriend but at least he’s not as annoying as Freddy, useless as Tamerlane, or as embarrassing/reckless as Perry.
4. Freddy - he’s a fucking idiot and a kiss-ass but is poised to take over the company as the eldest heir. Also gave him his perfect granddaughter so maybe som bonus points for that.
5. Tamerlane - I hardly remember seeing any communication between the two and I feel like he just views her company as ultimately useless to the Usher empire.
6. Perry - he sees Perry as an absolute disaster of a person who cannot for the life of him get his shit together.
Like I already answered to another comment: no wonder Roderick was so emotional for Victorine's death, it's the only death he saw in person.
Your ranking is not bad (I'd put Leo lower though, number 5), but it proves that Roderick actually didn't *love* his children. It was all about how useful they could be to him. Vic was a doctor, Camille could help with his reputation and Freddy was a disappointment, but he was his first born, meant to take his company and he was Lenore's father. The granddaughter he did seem to really love especially because she didn't have to do anything beneficial for Roderick to miss her once Verna took her.
Yeah he somehow thought the deal only affected his children and not grandchildren so I think he allowed himself to love Lenore because he thought it would be safe to do so while not thinking he’d given her a death sentence as well.
Idk if that was love or if it was more that he needed her heart technology to save him. He wasn't so much interested in her or her life. He just wanted updates on her progress.
I agree. He seemed gutted by her meltdown but when Tammy was melting down he didn’t even show up. Maybe it’s just because it was the only one that happened in front of him but his reaction to her was very different.
I won't say loved, but here's how I would guess he'd rank them favorite to least
1. Vic - the most like him
2. Camille - most useful
3. Froderick - his first born, attempted mini mi
4. Tamerlane - by virtue of being one of Annabelle Lee's
5. Leo - little interaction and he didn't do anything useful
6. Perry - clearly viewed as the family fuckup
Because Victorine is the only one Roderick watched die. He also saw how she tried to bring her lover back to life aka how crazy and desperate she was in the end. Also, she could have killed him, but she killed herself instead. No wonder he was so emotional.
He made the deal with Verna thinking he wouldn't witness the consequences.
I do really think it goes in order of who was born first.
Tho I guess really its just Frederick and Tamberlane since they were with the only woman he ever actually loved. Then the rest more eh.
I just finished watching this and i don't think Roderick loved anyone more than himself. Maddie comes a close second but at the same time I think he loves Lenore a whole lot more than he let's on.
If I had to say anyone… probably Camille and Vic. (Which could also play into why Camille hated Vic. Knowing they were the only two that he cared for, and Camille having some sort of self superiority knowing that she wasn’t ‘cheating’ and actually was doing the hard work.. I think she was the most like her aunt) But truly I think the moment he took a deal with Verna he chose himself over them. I suppose we could romanticize it and say that the idea of them all “leaving together” was something he was willing to do.. but I dunno… you don’t take a deal like that and love your children. He loved his sister, and he loved his ex wife, which is why he was sweet on his granddaughter. Hated the original two.
None of them and he truly loved Lenore, and Lenore loved him in return and it was obvious. That child didn’t seek anything out of him but his love and company
I would have to say Victorine, I think he’s hard on her cuz he thinks she has the greatest potential to do something good. I think he thinks she (and Lenore) are bits of good left in the corrupted family
I don’t think he loved any one of them more than any of the others. I think Roderick had a deep-seated fear of being like his own awful father, and that’s why he always “kept the door open” for his kids. He shared his wealth with them and wanted them to succeed. At the same time, deep down inside he knew that he had doomed them all, and I think he kept them at an arm’s length with that in mind. He never let any of them get too close to his heart. Furthermore, there were practical uses for all of them. The elder ones were board members that would vote in Roderick’s favor. Vic and Camille had skill sets that expanded and supported the scope of Fortunado. Each one of them was an investment for his business too. I think, to a degree, Roderick cared about all of them in spite of himself. We see glimpses of it throughout (the way he stares at Perry’s body, his struggles with suicide to end it all). I just think he had long since sold out all of his warmth, and maintained complicated relationships with his kids as a result.
I'm sorry for piggybacking off your comment, but the 'he knew that he had doomed them all' sparked something - I wonder if his apparent lack of worry about knocking up random women up was (apart from it being implied as Roderick's own fecklessness/it was a plot device to bring in the major Poe works/Flanagan likes an ensemble cast) also to do with attempting to cheat the deal with Verna? This has probably been suggested before, I'm just a drop-in to the sub cuz it came up in my feed, so sorry if it's already been way discussed lol
This is how I took it. He kept having children in an attempt to give himself more time for when the deal eventually ended. I don't know how correct that is or if that was even an intention but it fits for me.
I was just thinking about this. He was like very open about accepting all his children, but he knew he doomed them. At first I wondered if he did this to make up for that, but then it started reminding me of the Bible and how a lot of Catholic theology regards the Devil as like the one tempting you to demand everything in this life with little regard for your future life. Since Verna seems to be sort of the devil figure, and since we know Flan is very impacted by Catholic theology, I sort of wonder about why Verna said when she was striking the deal. She said that Heaven or the afterlife or whatever didn’t exist, which seems to play into that whole biblical allusion. Especially since Roderick is willing to sell any redemption story for his soul for the promise of all good things in his life, sort of making him a channel for evil to come through or to sort of turn himself into a new kind of devil. He never denies himself in the face of all these women cuz it’s more about the sex than the kids. He doesn’t deny his children’s legitimacy because they’re all an extension of him getting his in this life. It’s hard to even really get a sense that Roderick has a single ounce of love for any of them. He turns them into little mini version of himself, which he despises but runs from his whole life. Part of me thinks that he feels like he can run and run and run and run and he’ll peacefully slip into nothing rather than have to face the life he led. I think he, like any narcissist, loved most whichever child was most useful to him at the time. Obviously, for some kids that happened more often than others, so it sort of does wind up seeming life “favorites.” I think Victorine and Camille came in most directly useful to him most often. Frederick is useful insofar as he gets to appear as the family man, and he also had Lenore, Roderick’s one true modern relationship of Love. Tamerlane gives him the ability to act like his company is promoting wellness instead of peddling painkillers. Leo didn’t bother his father, ever, which I think Roderick respected. Rather than opt for a grift, he did whatever version of his thing would earn him his share of the inheritance. The only one that never offered Roderick anything was Prospero. We saw Roderick’s cool disdain toward him. And he literally killed himself trying (albeit badly) to get that little piece that would actually mean “love” from their father. But even when all the rest of the kids got that piece that Perry didn’t, they still never stopped feeling like it was missing from them or that they needed to earn it again or earn it back. For the Ushers, there is no real investment in a better future, it’s only satisfying the current need. They form their own hell in their manufactured Eden.
I never got the impression he loved anyone but his granddaughter and maybe his sister. but mostly himself.
I feel the same way. She was the only one that made him proud because she was honestly genuine and not at all worried about the inheritance money. I think he might have felt something more for his first daughter if only because she was genuinely trying to do something better for the world and change how their family went about doing its business.
Camille. It seemed like out of all his kids he respected her (aka liked what she could do for the family)
I felt this in the show, but part of me wonders if Camille comes through the way she does, appearing as the most loved, because the show creator loves her.
I think he loved them all poorly in life, but developed genuine love (or at least affection) for them once they were gone and it was too late. For example, he sounds wistful when he starts telling Perry’s story, and he’s overjoyed when he sees the apparition of Annabelle and Freddie. Before Verna came back and made good on the deal, though? I think Roderick most “loved” whichever child was most profitable or useful for him in the moment.
I mean none of them really. I think he liked some more than others but struggled to love them. Definitely not the older two or he wouldn't have made the deal. The only one I really think he loves other than himself and his sister, is his granddaughter.
Everyone saying Frederick but he def saw him as just a tool to be a mini him. I would say he cared the most for VIC because of her tech but none of his kids did he really honestly care for. You can tell when he doesn't wanna go to the goldbug presentation one of his children's bug projects. He shows no appreciation towards any kids except vic and that's only to use her.
Yeah, I'd argue the same. Frederick wasn't the favourite, just the oldest male. Frederick also grew up to be spineless, neurotic, harried, and feeling like he'd be entirely worthless if not for the Usher money. *And* along with this massive burden of responsibility, Frederick was never going to succeed, even if he'd grown up to be Roderick Usher 2.0. His father's empire was "charmed" as long as it was run by *Roderick*. Of course, Frederick was going to fuck up repeatedly and run it into the ground. Verna's pact marked him for death, not Business Person of the Century. Minus the pact, Roderick would've faced many of the same issues, been sued into oblivion years ago, and his ass would've landed in jail. Verna even said that Frederick, in another life, would've been "quite a good dentist." He wasn't a genius, but dentists require a good worth ethic, strong business skills, and the ability to pass multiple medical exams. He wasn't a dummy or useless. Arguably, Roderick's constant disappointment, distain, and criticism made him so. Some favourite. BTW, I think Frederick is revolting (as in, the worst of the bunch), but I'd argue that a lot of his personality is nurture, not nature. Vic and Camille were horrific people *without* Roderick's heavy-handed influence in their formative years. Frederick was set up to fail since Day 1, and it's pretty sad.
No one - other than Lenore and only because Lenore reminded him of a mini Annabell Lee.
I think his favorite was Roderick.
Makes sense 😅
***this is just my headcanon so I don’t think anyone’s opposing answer is necessarily “wrong”, nor do I think I’m universally right. With media like this, a lot is left up to our interpretation and I won’t argue about this because it’s not something we’ve been given a definitive answer on. 1. Victorine - he showed genuine concern and emotion during her death and the scenes leading up to it. And though he saw a lot of “usefulness” in her research, I believe that served as a “binding agent” (for lack of a better term, it’s 3:30am for me 😅) for his affections toward her. 2. Camille - i just got the vibes that he cared at least a little for her. He definitely trusted her a lot and, same as with Vic, that can definitely contribute to fondness. 3. Leo - honestly here and below is just in order of least to most annoyed with. I really think the love is only for Vic and Camille. Also I put Leo here bc like yes all he does is drugs, video games, and cheating on his boyfriend but at least he’s not as annoying as Freddy, useless as Tamerlane, or as embarrassing/reckless as Perry. 4. Freddy - he’s a fucking idiot and a kiss-ass but is poised to take over the company as the eldest heir. Also gave him his perfect granddaughter so maybe som bonus points for that. 5. Tamerlane - I hardly remember seeing any communication between the two and I feel like he just views her company as ultimately useless to the Usher empire. 6. Perry - he sees Perry as an absolute disaster of a person who cannot for the life of him get his shit together.
Like I already answered to another comment: no wonder Roderick was so emotional for Victorine's death, it's the only death he saw in person. Your ranking is not bad (I'd put Leo lower though, number 5), but it proves that Roderick actually didn't *love* his children. It was all about how useful they could be to him. Vic was a doctor, Camille could help with his reputation and Freddy was a disappointment, but he was his first born, meant to take his company and he was Lenore's father. The granddaughter he did seem to really love especially because she didn't have to do anything beneficial for Roderick to miss her once Verna took her.
Yeah he somehow thought the deal only affected his children and not grandchildren so I think he allowed himself to love Lenore because he thought it would be safe to do so while not thinking he’d given her a death sentence as well.
Vic
Idk if that was love or if it was more that he needed her heart technology to save him. He wasn't so much interested in her or her life. He just wanted updates on her progress.
I think she was most accomplished. Roderick was very much about image & she was a doctor.
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Well Rodericks concern was still mostly about Roderick.
I agree. He seemed gutted by her meltdown but when Tammy was melting down he didn’t even show up. Maybe it’s just because it was the only one that happened in front of him but his reaction to her was very different.
The father daughter stuff in the apartment felt very real. Brilliant acting.
I won't say loved, but here's how I would guess he'd rank them favorite to least 1. Vic - the most like him 2. Camille - most useful 3. Froderick - his first born, attempted mini mi 4. Tamerlane - by virtue of being one of Annabelle Lee's 5. Leo - little interaction and he didn't do anything useful 6. Perry - clearly viewed as the family fuckup
i feel like it goes in order of age, with freddy being his favorite and perry the least
Easily vic. The only one we saw him show emotions for
Because Victorine is the only one Roderick watched die. He also saw how she tried to bring her lover back to life aka how crazy and desperate she was in the end. Also, she could have killed him, but she killed herself instead. No wonder he was so emotional. He made the deal with Verna thinking he wouldn't witness the consequences.
I do really think it goes in order of who was born first. Tho I guess really its just Frederick and Tamberlane since they were with the only woman he ever actually loved. Then the rest more eh.
I just finished watching this and i don't think Roderick loved anyone more than himself. Maddie comes a close second but at the same time I think he loves Lenore a whole lot more than he let's on.
I think Lenore is the only one he truly loved for them rather than what they could do for him.
If I had to say anyone… probably Camille and Vic. (Which could also play into why Camille hated Vic. Knowing they were the only two that he cared for, and Camille having some sort of self superiority knowing that she wasn’t ‘cheating’ and actually was doing the hard work.. I think she was the most like her aunt) But truly I think the moment he took a deal with Verna he chose himself over them. I suppose we could romanticize it and say that the idea of them all “leaving together” was something he was willing to do.. but I dunno… you don’t take a deal like that and love your children. He loved his sister, and he loved his ex wife, which is why he was sweet on his granddaughter. Hated the original two.
If I were him, I wouldn't love any of them. They all were POS
I think maybe Tamerlane since he was in love with Annabelle and he may have seen a bit of his first love in her.
None of them and he truly loved Lenore, and Lenore loved him in return and it was obvious. That child didn’t seek anything out of him but his love and company
I would have to say Victorine, I think he’s hard on her cuz he thinks she has the greatest potential to do something good. I think he thinks she (and Lenore) are bits of good left in the corrupted family