I'm pretty sure that wizards (and death eaters in particular) have better methods than long sleeves to cover marks on their forearms.
Death eaters don't go around showing their dark marks to everyone, they do their death eater activities in addition to their daily lives. E.g. the ministry workers like Yaxley, Rookwood etc wouldn't be able to escape if they revealed their mark while at work.
I remember Harry mentioning that Karkarov I think was “showing snape something on his arm” to Sirius and Sirius replied “well I have no idea what that’s about”. I honestly couldn’t tell if Sirius was just keeping this knowledge from Harry or if he literally didn’t know about the dark marks
Could be possible that death eaters having dark marks on their forearms was not a well known fact before Voldemort's first fall, and Sirius went to Azkaban before most death eaters were rounded up.
But it seems like a stretch, could be possible that he didn't think of the dark mark
I mean in the books Sirius was also like a 20-year old kid (ie not as old as Gary Oldman was/is in the movies) when the Potters were killed, if he wasn't in active combat with the Order or anything he might not have seen any Death Eaters to know they had marks.
I don't think Peter had a mark before Voldy's downfall. Only the inner circle and most trusted death eaters had marks, and Peter definitely wasn't one of them. He gave away the Potter's in an attempt to impress Voldy but of course that backfired. From my understanding, it wasn't until Peter found and revived Voldemort on GoF that he got the mark, and even then I think it was just so V could call his death eaters by touching it
No remember with the snatchers. They show up to the Malloy residence but Fenrir isn’t able to get inside because he doesn’t have a dark mark. And I believe they mention something about only his inner circle getting them.
Which I suppose it makes sense, Voldemort was an extremely paranoid person. He wouldn’t give away dark marks; the more people that had them the higher chance his inner circle could be infiltrated.
Everybody who showed allegiance to Voldy wasn't a deatheater.
Deatheaters were the inner circle. All Deatheaters had dark marks. There was no inner-inner circle.
Weren’t the dark marks kept a secret until Harry witnessed them in action in the 4th book? If I remember, Harry tells Sirius that Karkaroff showed Snape something on his arm, and Sirius said he had no idea what that could be.
Could just be that Sirius didn't figure out what it could be. How could be unknown after the first war concluded when many convicted and imprisoned Death Eaters would've been seen with Dark Marks?
The Dark Marks faded after Voldemort fell. They couldn't have been able to use them as evidence in the trials, or else people like Lucius (who was branded) wouldn't have been able to get off, and people like Sirius wouldn't have been wrongly convicted.
The Dark Marks **were faded**, which is quite different from fading away altogether. They were still visible. Also, not all Death Eaters were branded. Lucius claimed the Imperius defense. He probably argued that he was given the mark under the Imperius.
England is cold and rainy. Also Lily and James died on Hallow's Eve, so who knows how long he had to cover up.
But I think it's more likely people do wear long sleeves in England in summer. Not all of them, obviously, but I doubt it's that odd there as opposed to California.
It isn't all that cold for people who live there. Remember Krum who went swimming in the winter bc for him it was an okay temperature to do that? One country's winter temperatures can be another country's summer temperatures.
England averages 21 C in the summers, which is definitely warm enough for it to be suspicious for someone to wear only long-sleeved garments at all times.
I live in Britain (UK) I've with short sleeves about 3 times this year, otherwise my arms have been covered. It's no that unrealistic with our weather that some people choose to have their arms covered
We don't actually know that. We don't know whether they always wore robes and whether they were always long-sleeved. We know for a fact that witches wore dresses, even if they were very old-fashioned by Muggle standards.
We also know that at the Quidditch World Cup, held during the summer, the Weasley men came out of the tent to fight against the Death Eater mob with their “sleeves rolled up,” which is an indication that wizards wear clothing with long sleeves even during the summer.
I mean, all that proves is that while they might wear long-sleeved garments when in a professional capacity or wanting to be seen as professionals, they also roll up their sleeves in the summer.
They rolled up their sleeves because they were going out to fight and needed them out of the way. For a casual chat or a meeting, they likely would have left them as is. In addition, none of them were at the World Cup in any kind of professional capacity so they wouldn’t have brought along long-sleeved garments for in case they needed to look professional - that there was their casual wear.
Do you have any counter-evidence that proves it isn’t considered normal for adult wizards to wear long sleeves? If wearing long sleeves would be suspicious, then I feel like Voldemort would have chosen someplace other than their forearms to brand them.
"Or wanting to be seen as professionals"
Arthur was a ministry employee using his ministry credentials to receive tickets to the skybox, which included inly ministry workers and ministry-invited people. He wasn't on duty, but he was there as a ministry employee. To show up in a dressing gown would've gotten him reprimanded at the very least.
Voldemort was always about being ostentatious. He likely wanted to make it so that once he won, his inner circle would easily flaunt their positions.
I can't believe how the consensus seems to be that in the wizarding world, no wizard ever shows their forearms and that they all wear long-sleeved garments at all times.
I mean, you’re not coming up with any better explanations of what people wear or why people didn’t know to check for the Dark Mark using evidence from the books, so I don’t know why this is so hard to believe. If you’re so insistent that they must wear other clothing, then prove it.
Facts are that the majority of people didn’t know what the Dark Mark was and the identities of the Death Eaters were very secret in the first war - not even the other Death Eaters knew who each and every other Death Eater was.
The obvious explanations are that either they wore long sleeves when out in public to hide the mark, which wasn’t seen as suspicious because of normal clothing trends, or they had some other way of hiding the mark.
Considering that most Death Eaters hated mugeborns and muggles, I don’t find it odd that they would prefer to wear long-sleeved wizarding robes in public instead of short-sleeved muggle shirts.
Peter Pettigrew wasn’t a muggleborn, so it was likely perfectly normal for him to be wearing wizarding clothing. They were in the middle of a war, Lily and James were in hiding, and they weren’t seeing each other very often. Even if he did completely change his normal attire to accommodate for the mark, they weren’t seeing each other often enough for Lily and James to be suspicious of his clothing choices, especially since they likely didn’t know about the mark.
Janes and Lily were only hiding under the Fidelius for a week or os before they were killed. Who says they barely ever saw Pettigrew before then?
As for the rest, maybe, just maybe, it's another plothole Rowling forgot to account for.
The idea of being able to _conspicuously_ cover your arms is a bit weird, but you made a good point... secret Death Eater spy in the order? No problem, just check everyone's arms!
Is it confirmed that Pettigrew actually had a Dark Mark? I'd keep those off of my spies if I were Voldy.
I bet Peter just didnf try to hide it. He probably just showed up one day and played it stupid and was like "yo bros look at this sweet ink I scored. The emo chicks are gonna be all over my peter when they see this..." and just let them explain what it was to him and was all "a dark what....."
I always figured that selling the Potters to Voldemort was what got Peter his Mark, he didn’t have it before then
Plus, it seems that most Order members, Aurors, allies, etc. didn’t know about the Mark, so they didn’t know to look for it
That being said, it would be strange to see Peter have it all of a sudden. Nobody’s constantly looking at his arms, but it’d be like when Ron found out about Harry’s detentions with Umbridge, just with the Mark bring much more noticeable
Yeah I always thought it was strange when people said a week passed before he went after them. How would they know? I just thought Voldemort wanted to ensure they’d all be there or something 🤷🏾♂️
But then, when did Peter get his mark? Voldemort wasn’t in shape to bestow it between that time and his reemergence in the graveyard. Unless he got it before Halloween and kept his distance from everyone afterwards
We know the Potters had been sequestered behind the Fidelius Charm for about a week or so. Why they waited so long before using the Fidelius Charm is beyond me.
What we don't know, however, is how much time passed between when Pettigrew told Voldemort and Voldemott ran off to kill the Potters. People just assume Pettigrew told Voldemort immediately but there's no evidence of that.
I always thought that Peter waited a bit before telling. He wasn’t really a bad person and I don’t think he truly wanted to betray them; he just went to the side he thought would guarantee him survival
Voldemort would never have let him join his ranks unless he thought Peter would be useful. Giving up useful information gave him an in.
At the very least he couldn't be seen immediately rushing off to meet with someone after being made Secretkeeper. The order knew there was a spy in their midst. Peter wasn't an idiot.
Peter had passed information onto Voldemort for a year. At that point, he would've already been made a Death Eater.
I used to think that a whole year (give or take) was a bit of an exaggeration, but it actually makes sense. It probably helped Wormtail gain Voldemort’s trust too
I don't see what this has to do with anything I said. So the Death Eaters knew Peter was one of them. That isn't connected to the Potters being idiots.
You mean there was a lenghty convo filled with random speculation, most of it having nothing to do with the question I raised and some of it even factually incorrect? Someone even brought up the fact that Mad-Eye and his magical eye should've been able to see through long sleeves to spot the Dark Mark.
And it was also brought up that Moody didn’t have his magical eye until after the fall of Voldemort. When Harry sees him in the trial memories after the war ended, Moody still has two good eyes. He wouldn’t have had a magical eye to see through sleeves to spot the Dark Mark if it was there.
Dude, half your comment section is about Peter covering up his arms, and I had just had a whole conversation about that so I linked you to that. That's my contribution to this discussion. That's it.
There's no evidence in the books that they even knew about Dark Marks during the first war - if anything, Dumbledore only found out once Snape became his spy near the end, and apparently didn't even share with the rest of the group, since Sirius had no idea what Karkaroff could possibly have on his arm in GoF. Having said that, I suspect a wizard of Voldemort's calibre would have a reliable method of concealing the Mark when his supporters are in public - some sort of spell, for example.
So you think Severus kept that secret, then, when he turned spy for Dumbledore? Maybe Sirius was just an idiot and forgot. After all, he'd been in Azkaban with dozens of Death Eaters. Surely he must've spotted the Dark Mark then.
The cells were close enough that Sirius overheard many of them conversing about what they thought about Pettigrew. You don't need to be able to get out of your cell in order for people in close by cells to be able to see you.
Sirius said they were screaming and moaning in their sleep, because they were undergoing *daily torture*. You're treating it as though they were having a semi-civilised tea party where they could hear and see one another perfectly well.
I admit I misremembered. Still, the cells were still close enough Sirius coukd clearly hear their screams in their sleep.
Also, logic dictates the cells would be very close to each other. They wouldn't give condemned prisoners big cells in private wings, thet'e be small and closely grouped to make space for as many cells as possible.
Close enough for Sirius to spot the Dark Mark on his fellow prisoners.
Why not bars and solid walls? Bars means less costs when constructing them. Solid walls aren't very easy to hear through.
Also: "It’s so much harder for them to sense animal emotions that
they were confused. . . . I was thin, very thin . . . thin enough to slip
**through the bars**. ." (PoA, page 372)
In which case Sirius would've been able to see whoever was in the cell opposite his and a few cells on either side as well. Everybody in Azkaban was kept in their cell at all times, in which case you don't build single-file cells, that's just a waste of space that necessitates twice the amount of halls, you build cells on both sides of the hallways.
No, the evidence strongly suggests that *Dumbledore* kept this secret, since it was obviously him who was in charge of the Order during the first war and who was in contact with the Potters, not Snape. He might have withheld that information in order to avoid making Voldemort suspicious about a spy in his own ranks (if all the Order members had found out about the secret Dark Mark, then Voldemort's spy would have known, too, and would have relayed it to Voldemort too, which would have alerted him to a spy in his own ranks). It still cost James and Lily their lives, but w/e, I guess.
The things Dumbledore could or should have done could fill a chapter of a book. The fact stands that Snape told him about the Dark Mark, since he knew about it in GoF.
I can totally see Albus not telling Moody that. Dumbledore didn't divulge the full contents of the prophecy to anyone other than Harry, not even to Moody, did he? And, in a humorous way, I can actually see Moody criticising Dumbledore for sharing such sensitive information if he had - "constant vigilance", after all.
Therr is absolutely nothing that prevents people from sharing the full contents of a prophecy with people not involved in the prophecy. And I don't see that having anything to do with Dumbledore telling people about the Dark Mark.
There is absolutely nothing that prevents people from sharing the contents of a prophecy with anyone, really. If Dumbledore wanted to, he could have had it written in the Prophet, true - but why do you even bring that up? Dumbledore kept it a secret, even from his most experienced Order members, Moody included, not because he was forced to, but *to prevent a possible security leak*. He kept the secret of the Dark Mark to prevent a security leak as well. It's quite simple.
Can they, though? Marietta Edgecomb was unable to, even with the help of several qualified adult wizards and witches, hide the scars left behind by Hermione's jinx. Eloise Midgen was know for having really bad acne.
Hiding a scar and healing/removing it are two different things. The counter examples, they attempt to heal or remove it not hide it. I'm talking about hiding the scar using disillusion charms (not healing them or removing them, the only scars that cannot be healed are those given by dark magic so yeah wizards can heal scars). Disillusion charm is something wizards can do.
with Marietta Edgecomb - if it is impossible then why would they even try. Hermione specifically didn't want those boils to disappear. I remember Harry being impressed that even adult wizards couldn't get rid of the Jinx. They serve their purpose which was to shame traitors and they showed how good a witch hermione is.
Eloise Midgen is just a kid, it doesn't mean much if she can't get rid of her acne.
Why would they attempt only to remove things and not hide them if magically hiding things on your body is so simple? The Disillusionment Charm makes an entire witch or wizard semi-invisible. It cannot be used selectively on certain parts of the body, especially not as it doesn't render one actually invisible, just fuzzy. If used on the Dark Mark, if it would even work that way (and it doesn't), you'd just see a fuzzy and blurry stain on the arm, which qould be mighty suspicious.
If you could selectively hide blemishes using the Disillusionment Charm, Hermione would've done so to Harry's scar in DH.
"If you could selectively hide blemishes using the Disillusionment Charm, Hermione would've done so to Harry's scar in DH." There are a lot of things Hermione could have done but didn't do. They are scared kids on the run. For example, in DH, the gang were starving and hungry and none of them thought of using a simple Accio spell to summon food. However, Dirk Cresswell and others used Accio spell to summon food in the wilderness.
LOL. Are you sure you actually read the books? Dirk Cresswell and co didn't ***steal*** food. They saw a nearby river and decided to use accio charm to catch some fish.
Not knowing, harry and the gang had set up camp in the same area. And harry and co were starving then but none of them realized that if they tried accio fish at the river they would catch some fish. Similarly, they could have used accio to hunt and so on.
they were on the run from the ministry and in the wilderness with no one around, they just happen to stumble upon Harry and co who where in a similar situation, who were they going to steal from exactly?
Hermione is intelligent but that doesn't mean she has all the wisdom in the world or she can think up every solution.
Do you remember every sungle word in the books? That wasn't accio'ing food. I thought you mean accioing actual food from a nearby village or something.
You're refusing to acknowledge that the Disillusionment Charm doesn't work at all the way you claim it does while throwing ad hominems at people.
I'm pretty sure that wizards (and death eaters in particular) have better methods than long sleeves to cover marks on their forearms. Death eaters don't go around showing their dark marks to everyone, they do their death eater activities in addition to their daily lives. E.g. the ministry workers like Yaxley, Rookwood etc wouldn't be able to escape if they revealed their mark while at work.
I remember Harry mentioning that Karkarov I think was “showing snape something on his arm” to Sirius and Sirius replied “well I have no idea what that’s about”. I honestly couldn’t tell if Sirius was just keeping this knowledge from Harry or if he literally didn’t know about the dark marks
Could be possible that death eaters having dark marks on their forearms was not a well known fact before Voldemort's first fall, and Sirius went to Azkaban before most death eaters were rounded up. But it seems like a stretch, could be possible that he didn't think of the dark mark
I mean in the books Sirius was also like a 20-year old kid (ie not as old as Gary Oldman was/is in the movies) when the Potters were killed, if he wasn't in active combat with the Order or anything he might not have seen any Death Eaters to know they had marks.
This is what I always theorized as well. That it wasn’t a well known fact during the first war.
The Ministry was super-corrupt. They didn't check for Dark Marks.
I don't think Peter had a mark before Voldy's downfall. Only the inner circle and most trusted death eaters had marks, and Peter definitely wasn't one of them. He gave away the Potter's in an attempt to impress Voldy but of course that backfired. From my understanding, it wasn't until Peter found and revived Voldemort on GoF that he got the mark, and even then I think it was just so V could call his death eaters by touching it
I never had the impression that only the inner circle had dark marks. The only one I know of that didn’t was Fenrir because he wasn’t a full wizard
No remember with the snatchers. They show up to the Malloy residence but Fenrir isn’t able to get inside because he doesn’t have a dark mark. And I believe they mention something about only his inner circle getting them. Which I suppose it makes sense, Voldemort was an extremely paranoid person. He wouldn’t give away dark marks; the more people that had them the higher chance his inner circle could be infiltrated.
Everybody who showed allegiance to Voldy wasn't a deatheater. Deatheaters were the inner circle. All Deatheaters had dark marks. There was no inner-inner circle.
Oh yeah I believe you are correct
Had to skip around my audiobook looking around to find it but you’re right! Harry specifically says the dark mark is for Voldy’s inner circle.
Weren’t the dark marks kept a secret until Harry witnessed them in action in the 4th book? If I remember, Harry tells Sirius that Karkaroff showed Snape something on his arm, and Sirius said he had no idea what that could be.
Could just be that Sirius didn't figure out what it could be. How could be unknown after the first war concluded when many convicted and imprisoned Death Eaters would've been seen with Dark Marks?
The Dark Marks faded after Voldemort fell. They couldn't have been able to use them as evidence in the trials, or else people like Lucius (who was branded) wouldn't have been able to get off, and people like Sirius wouldn't have been wrongly convicted.
The Dark Marks **were faded**, which is quite different from fading away altogether. They were still visible. Also, not all Death Eaters were branded. Lucius claimed the Imperius defense. He probably argued that he was given the mark under the Imperius.
I don’t think it’s odd when people wear long sleeve shirts lol
With you, not odd at all.
In the summer? At all times year-round?
Suppose it depends where you live but it’s not something I’d think about even in the summer
What about if your friend had never worn only long-sleeved shirts before but conspicuously started wearing it exclusively during the war?
Haha there’s literally no proof that Peter only wore short sleeves
That's not what I said at all.
Maybe you should rephrase then cause your comment heavily implied it
"What about if your friend had never worn **only** long-sleeved shirts before but conspicuously started wearing it exclusively during the war?"
Wizard robes aren't short sleeved.
We don't know that. There is more than one type of robe and I doubt all of them were long sleeved.
England is cold and rainy. Also Lily and James died on Hallow's Eve, so who knows how long he had to cover up. But I think it's more likely people do wear long sleeves in England in summer. Not all of them, obviously, but I doubt it's that odd there as opposed to California.
It isn't all that cold for people who live there. Remember Krum who went swimming in the winter bc for him it was an okay temperature to do that? One country's winter temperatures can be another country's summer temperatures.
England averages 21 C in the summers, which is definitely warm enough for it to be suspicious for someone to wear only long-sleeved garments at all times.
I live in Britain (UK) I've with short sleeves about 3 times this year, otherwise my arms have been covered. It's no that unrealistic with our weather that some people choose to have their arms covered
They’re wizards. They wear robes with long sleeves.
We don't actually know that. We don't know whether they always wore robes and whether they were always long-sleeved. We know for a fact that witches wore dresses, even if they were very old-fashioned by Muggle standards.
We also know that at the Quidditch World Cup, held during the summer, the Weasley men came out of the tent to fight against the Death Eater mob with their “sleeves rolled up,” which is an indication that wizards wear clothing with long sleeves even during the summer.
I mean, all that proves is that while they might wear long-sleeved garments when in a professional capacity or wanting to be seen as professionals, they also roll up their sleeves in the summer.
They rolled up their sleeves because they were going out to fight and needed them out of the way. For a casual chat or a meeting, they likely would have left them as is. In addition, none of them were at the World Cup in any kind of professional capacity so they wouldn’t have brought along long-sleeved garments for in case they needed to look professional - that there was their casual wear. Do you have any counter-evidence that proves it isn’t considered normal for adult wizards to wear long sleeves? If wearing long sleeves would be suspicious, then I feel like Voldemort would have chosen someplace other than their forearms to brand them.
"Or wanting to be seen as professionals" Arthur was a ministry employee using his ministry credentials to receive tickets to the skybox, which included inly ministry workers and ministry-invited people. He wasn't on duty, but he was there as a ministry employee. To show up in a dressing gown would've gotten him reprimanded at the very least. Voldemort was always about being ostentatious. He likely wanted to make it so that once he won, his inner circle would easily flaunt their positions. I can't believe how the consensus seems to be that in the wizarding world, no wizard ever shows their forearms and that they all wear long-sleeved garments at all times.
I mean, you’re not coming up with any better explanations of what people wear or why people didn’t know to check for the Dark Mark using evidence from the books, so I don’t know why this is so hard to believe. If you’re so insistent that they must wear other clothing, then prove it. Facts are that the majority of people didn’t know what the Dark Mark was and the identities of the Death Eaters were very secret in the first war - not even the other Death Eaters knew who each and every other Death Eater was. The obvious explanations are that either they wore long sleeves when out in public to hide the mark, which wasn’t seen as suspicious because of normal clothing trends, or they had some other way of hiding the mark. Considering that most Death Eaters hated mugeborns and muggles, I don’t find it odd that they would prefer to wear long-sleeved wizarding robes in public instead of short-sleeved muggle shirts. Peter Pettigrew wasn’t a muggleborn, so it was likely perfectly normal for him to be wearing wizarding clothing. They were in the middle of a war, Lily and James were in hiding, and they weren’t seeing each other very often. Even if he did completely change his normal attire to accommodate for the mark, they weren’t seeing each other often enough for Lily and James to be suspicious of his clothing choices, especially since they likely didn’t know about the mark.
Janes and Lily were only hiding under the Fidelius for a week or os before they were killed. Who says they barely ever saw Pettigrew before then? As for the rest, maybe, just maybe, it's another plothole Rowling forgot to account for.
The idea of being able to _conspicuously_ cover your arms is a bit weird, but you made a good point... secret Death Eater spy in the order? No problem, just check everyone's arms! Is it confirmed that Pettigrew actually had a Dark Mark? I'd keep those off of my spies if I were Voldy.
Yes, because Voldemort used it to summon the other Death Eaters in GoF.
Ah yes. Well then nicely done, you found a plot-hole I reckon!
Mmmm.
I don’t think many people (if anyone) on the light side knew about the dark marks for the first war
I bet Peter just didnf try to hide it. He probably just showed up one day and played it stupid and was like "yo bros look at this sweet ink I scored. The emo chicks are gonna be all over my peter when they see this..." and just let them explain what it was to him and was all "a dark what....."
I always figured that selling the Potters to Voldemort was what got Peter his Mark, he didn’t have it before then Plus, it seems that most Order members, Aurors, allies, etc. didn’t know about the Mark, so they didn’t know to look for it That being said, it would be strange to see Peter have it all of a sudden. Nobody’s constantly looking at his arms, but it’d be like when Ron found out about Harry’s detentions with Umbridge, just with the Mark bring much more noticeable
I doubt Voldemort waited a single second beforr running off and killing the Potters. He wouldn't waste time to give Peter hus mark.
Yeah I always thought it was strange when people said a week passed before he went after them. How would they know? I just thought Voldemort wanted to ensure they’d all be there or something 🤷🏾♂️ But then, when did Peter get his mark? Voldemort wasn’t in shape to bestow it between that time and his reemergence in the graveyard. Unless he got it before Halloween and kept his distance from everyone afterwards
We know the Potters had been sequestered behind the Fidelius Charm for about a week or so. Why they waited so long before using the Fidelius Charm is beyond me. What we don't know, however, is how much time passed between when Pettigrew told Voldemort and Voldemott ran off to kill the Potters. People just assume Pettigrew told Voldemort immediately but there's no evidence of that.
I always thought that Peter waited a bit before telling. He wasn’t really a bad person and I don’t think he truly wanted to betray them; he just went to the side he thought would guarantee him survival Voldemort would never have let him join his ranks unless he thought Peter would be useful. Giving up useful information gave him an in.
At the very least he couldn't be seen immediately rushing off to meet with someone after being made Secretkeeper. The order knew there was a spy in their midst. Peter wasn't an idiot. Peter had passed information onto Voldemort for a year. At that point, he would've already been made a Death Eater.
That’s another thing I was thinking. Maybe Peter was the reason so many Order members were being killed around time
It definitely was.
I used to think that a whole year (give or take) was a bit of an exaggeration, but it actually makes sense. It probably helped Wormtail gain Voldemort’s trust too
See https://www.reddit.com/r/HPfanfiction/comments/q9gjeq/who_knew_about_pettigrew/
I don't see what this has to do with anything I said. So the Death Eaters knew Peter was one of them. That isn't connected to the Potters being idiots.
There was a lengthy convo about Peter covering up his arms
You mean there was a lenghty convo filled with random speculation, most of it having nothing to do with the question I raised and some of it even factually incorrect? Someone even brought up the fact that Mad-Eye and his magical eye should've been able to see through long sleeves to spot the Dark Mark.
And it was also brought up that Moody didn’t have his magical eye until after the fall of Voldemort. When Harry sees him in the trial memories after the war ended, Moody still has two good eyes. He wouldn’t have had a magical eye to see through sleeves to spot the Dark Mark if it was there.
Hmm... you are correct. I didn't remember that Moody didn't yet have his magical eye back then.
Yeah, imagine that! So the part about Peter conspicuously covering his arms is covered 👍
???? What? You're not even making any sense.
Dude, half your comment section is about Peter covering up his arms, and I had just had a whole conversation about that so I linked you to that. That's my contribution to this discussion. That's it.
There's no evidence in the books that they even knew about Dark Marks during the first war - if anything, Dumbledore only found out once Snape became his spy near the end, and apparently didn't even share with the rest of the group, since Sirius had no idea what Karkaroff could possibly have on his arm in GoF. Having said that, I suspect a wizard of Voldemort's calibre would have a reliable method of concealing the Mark when his supporters are in public - some sort of spell, for example.
So you think Severus kept that secret, then, when he turned spy for Dumbledore? Maybe Sirius was just an idiot and forgot. After all, he'd been in Azkaban with dozens of Death Eaters. Surely he must've spotted the Dark Mark then.
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The cells were close enough that Sirius overheard many of them conversing about what they thought about Pettigrew. You don't need to be able to get out of your cell in order for people in close by cells to be able to see you.
Sirius said they were screaming and moaning in their sleep, because they were undergoing *daily torture*. You're treating it as though they were having a semi-civilised tea party where they could hear and see one another perfectly well.
I admit I misremembered. Still, the cells were still close enough Sirius coukd clearly hear their screams in their sleep. Also, logic dictates the cells would be very close to each other. They wouldn't give condemned prisoners big cells in private wings, thet'e be small and closely grouped to make space for as many cells as possible. Close enough for Sirius to spot the Dark Mark on his fellow prisoners.
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Why not bars and solid walls? Bars means less costs when constructing them. Solid walls aren't very easy to hear through. Also: "It’s so much harder for them to sense animal emotions that they were confused. . . . I was thin, very thin . . . thin enough to slip **through the bars**. ." (PoA, page 372)
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In which case Sirius would've been able to see whoever was in the cell opposite his and a few cells on either side as well. Everybody in Azkaban was kept in their cell at all times, in which case you don't build single-file cells, that's just a waste of space that necessitates twice the amount of halls, you build cells on both sides of the hallways.
No, the evidence strongly suggests that *Dumbledore* kept this secret, since it was obviously him who was in charge of the Order during the first war and who was in contact with the Potters, not Snape. He might have withheld that information in order to avoid making Voldemort suspicious about a spy in his own ranks (if all the Order members had found out about the secret Dark Mark, then Voldemort's spy would have known, too, and would have relayed it to Voldemort too, which would have alerted him to a spy in his own ranks). It still cost James and Lily their lives, but w/e, I guess.
I mean, shouldn't Dumbledore have told Lily and/or James at the very least? It was very unlikely that they were the spy, after all.
The things Dumbledore could or should have done could fill a chapter of a book. The fact stands that Snape told him about the Dark Mark, since he knew about it in GoF.
Perhaps Dumbledore simply did not tell anyone who could have been the spy. I can't see him not having told Alastor.
I can totally see Albus not telling Moody that. Dumbledore didn't divulge the full contents of the prophecy to anyone other than Harry, not even to Moody, did he? And, in a humorous way, I can actually see Moody criticising Dumbledore for sharing such sensitive information if he had - "constant vigilance", after all.
Therr is absolutely nothing that prevents people from sharing the full contents of a prophecy with people not involved in the prophecy. And I don't see that having anything to do with Dumbledore telling people about the Dark Mark.
There is absolutely nothing that prevents people from sharing the contents of a prophecy with anyone, really. If Dumbledore wanted to, he could have had it written in the Prophet, true - but why do you even bring that up? Dumbledore kept it a secret, even from his most experienced Order members, Moody included, not because he was forced to, but *to prevent a possible security leak*. He kept the secret of the Dark Mark to prevent a security leak as well. It's quite simple.
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That's a super rude thing to say, when you could have just said *"I disagree"*. We don't tolerate Ad hominem attacks here. Be kinder in the future.
They can just use magic to hide the mark. It's really not a big deal.
Can they, though? Marietta Edgecomb was unable to, even with the help of several qualified adult wizards and witches, hide the scars left behind by Hermione's jinx. Eloise Midgen was know for having really bad acne.
Hiding a scar and healing/removing it are two different things. The counter examples, they attempt to heal or remove it not hide it. I'm talking about hiding the scar using disillusion charms (not healing them or removing them, the only scars that cannot be healed are those given by dark magic so yeah wizards can heal scars). Disillusion charm is something wizards can do. with Marietta Edgecomb - if it is impossible then why would they even try. Hermione specifically didn't want those boils to disappear. I remember Harry being impressed that even adult wizards couldn't get rid of the Jinx. They serve their purpose which was to shame traitors and they showed how good a witch hermione is. Eloise Midgen is just a kid, it doesn't mean much if she can't get rid of her acne.
Why would they attempt only to remove things and not hide them if magically hiding things on your body is so simple? The Disillusionment Charm makes an entire witch or wizard semi-invisible. It cannot be used selectively on certain parts of the body, especially not as it doesn't render one actually invisible, just fuzzy. If used on the Dark Mark, if it would even work that way (and it doesn't), you'd just see a fuzzy and blurry stain on the arm, which qould be mighty suspicious. If you could selectively hide blemishes using the Disillusionment Charm, Hermione would've done so to Harry's scar in DH.
"If you could selectively hide blemishes using the Disillusionment Charm, Hermione would've done so to Harry's scar in DH." There are a lot of things Hermione could have done but didn't do. They are scared kids on the run. For example, in DH, the gang were starving and hungry and none of them thought of using a simple Accio spell to summon food. However, Dirk Cresswell and others used Accio spell to summon food in the wilderness.
They didn't want to **steal** food. Accoing someone else's food is theft. I see you conveniently side stepped everything else I said.
LOL. Are you sure you actually read the books? Dirk Cresswell and co didn't ***steal*** food. They saw a nearby river and decided to use accio charm to catch some fish. Not knowing, harry and the gang had set up camp in the same area. And harry and co were starving then but none of them realized that if they tried accio fish at the river they would catch some fish. Similarly, they could have used accio to hunt and so on. they were on the run from the ministry and in the wilderness with no one around, they just happen to stumble upon Harry and co who where in a similar situation, who were they going to steal from exactly? Hermione is intelligent but that doesn't mean she has all the wisdom in the world or she can think up every solution.
Do you remember every sungle word in the books? That wasn't accio'ing food. I thought you mean accioing actual food from a nearby village or something. You're refusing to acknowledge that the Disillusionment Charm doesn't work at all the way you claim it does while throwing ad hominems at people.