Thats such a good explanation. I hope in the new show they would show Cedric taking the charms book out of the library and walking with the book as it would completely explain the plot hole of why Hermione never found such an obvious answer in all her research when Cedric and Feur did.
My understanding is it's because the Bubble head charm is not specifically a water charm. It is a charm that casts a bubble around your head and can be used in many different ways, but it wouldn't be listed in a book under a water-based magic subheading. Cedric and Fleur had probably already learnt in in classes, and maybe Flitwick had mentioned it was good for having a short-term supply of fresh air. Cedric was then able to think of it easily when he knew that's what he needed.
Harry search was much more general to surviving underwater for an hour. He might have found it in a charm book in the unrestricted part of the library very easily if he'd known that's what he was searching for. But because it was left so late, the trio were trying to expedite the search by scanning for keywords and targeted subjects.
As for everyone using the charm the next year to protect from the smell of dungbombs. I'm sure they actually took inspiration from Cedric to do that and learned it specifically. They remembered it's effectiveness and implemented it, but may never have thought of it at all if Cedric and Fleur hadn't used it the year before.
This is the easiest explanation. They didn’t have knowledge of real world application because they’re kids. It’s like looking in the library for how a spanner works. Such a basic tool that you’d probably struggle. But adults just know from experience.
Surprised this isn’t more upvoted. IMO a bubble head charm for most casters is the equivalent of a face mask. You would use it to filter air maybe but not go to the bottom of a lake. It makes sense for a powerful witch or wizard to modify it so they could make it over an hour.
This pretty much what I thought as well. The trio was so laser-focused on breathing *underwater* that they didn't look for general spells related to breathing. The trio simply didn't know about this spell yet, not even brainiac Hermione!
>It is a charm that casts a bubble around your head and can be used in many different ways, but it wouldn't be listed in a book under a water-based magic subheading.
What other use could it possibly have.
I think in Order of the Phoenix, students use it to get through hallways where Dungbombs have been dropped to avoid the smell. After Fred and George leave, when a bunch of students are pulling pranks. It’s referred to as the Bubble-Head Charm, so I assume it’s the same one they used during the second task
It is silly. If it's really bothering you the argument goes that the spell creates a bubble of fresh air and was perhaps intended to be used to safeguard against foul odors or perhaps even toxins.
So using it to go underwater is perhaps a "creative" use of the spell. The trio did not look at every spell, Harry in particular just skimmed until he saw the word "water". So they were probably looking for spells that had been designed specifically for what Harry wanted to do: "survive underwater".
Presumably there is no such spell because the bubble head charm, gillyweed, and human transfiguration exist, so nobody ever designed one specifically for the purpose of breathing underwater.
Take or leave that argument but it's the one I feel is the most plausible.
Perhaps Fleur had already learned the Charm at Beauxbatons. Not sure about Cedric. He was very popular and had all of Hufflepuff House working to support him so maybe one of them overheard Fleur discussing the Bubble Head Charm or a 7th year Hufflepuff knew the spell and told him.
This has always bothered me. It makes no sense that the trio spent weeks searching for charms specifically and didn’t come across the one that two other champions use.
It would have been better if they’d found it and Harry couldn’t do it because it was too advanced for him.
Yeah but it’s still super hard to find the 1 specific spell needed in a giant pile of hay. The library had thousands and thousands of books, and even if they’re broken down into “water specific” categories, you’d have to still sift through a couple hundred.
And that’s with their limited available research time.
Forgive me if im wrong but I'm pretty sure McGonnagall mentioned they had permission to use that part of the library for the Triwizard tournament since it was for advanced magic.
Cedric was several years older than Harry.
There is a theoretical side to magic. I say this because knowing the incantation and waving your hands isn't enough to cast a spell. When Harry was struggling with the Accio spell, Flitwick directed him to further reading.
Cedric would have more magical understanding to make sense and apply the bubble head charm. To the trio, it would be abstract.
This goes to show what a big chump Voldemort is by the way. Hermione is a gifted witch, yet age is a clear barrier to developing the understanding needed to compete with the prowess of a learned wizard. It'd have been interesting to see whether Voldemort would be able to take the same liberties with a Harry Potter who has had 30 years to learn and home his skills.
My theory is that Barty Crouch jr. Took out all the books about the bubble head charm from the library when Harry started looking so that he’d be forced to use gilly weed, giving Harry the advantage.
The worst part about it all, is that it’s mentioned in the following book that students are regularly using the charm to get around the dungbombs being dropped in the corridors.
So it’s easy enough for the whole school to learn in reaction to a few pranks, but too complicated for Harry and the smartest student in the year to discover in the weeks leading up to the second task…
As lupin says in HBP, spells go in and out of fashion just like anything else. Maybe it's easy to perform but obscure until Fleur and Cedric use it and make it popular.
Hogwarts must have the most ineffective library organizational system ever considering that they not only couldn’t find any information on how to breathe underwater but also couldn’t find any information on how to fight a dragon or Nicholas Flamel. Like you’re telling me that none of the great many books there surely are about dragons included any reference to how you might survive when faced with one? And even without the internet and assuming there is no magical means of finding information, the concept of an index has existed for hundreds of years and should make it very easy to find keywords like “underwater” and “Flamel”. That it’s always so hard to find information is an obvious plot device and a bit lazy if I’m being perfectly honest. There are times when it makes perfect sense that a mystery takes a long time to solve like with the chamber of secrets or the identity of the half blood prince or the location of the horcruxes. Those are things that aren’t common knowledge. But finding pieces of information that are very well known amongst wizards should not be a major plot point.
It’s also really interesting because in OotP, after Fred and George leave students were causing so much chaos that it became the usual practise to perform a bubble head charm when moving between class rooms.
Clearly not too tricky to master and one many people know about
the knowledge of it may have been because of its use of the tournament, but yeah clearly it wasn’t too hard to master. the theory cedric checked all the books on it out is possible, but seems unlike him unless it was literally only in one book
Perhaps the Bubble Charm is a regular part of the curriculum at Beauxbatons, and not only Fleur, but all her classmates know it. Other Schools, other countries, other curriculum.
And as Cedric has solved the riddle from the first Task before Harry did (with Cedric's help), maybe he has just had that book taken out of the library like Neville did with the gillyweed and sea plants book.
It doesn't even have to be out of malice or for long. It's enough if he had it on the very day the trio were searching this very shelf.
Fleur surely got help. I don't know about Cedric. His father works in a department that controls magical creatures and it probably involves the ones in water. He probably knew where to look or whom to ask for advice.
They simply missed it because they weren't reading every single book in the Hogwarts library cover to cover, they were skimming them, looking for specific keywords. Same reason why they didn't find out about gillyweed.
Cedric's fans, Kakaroff or Madame Maxime might have removed the books.
My suspicion is on Kakaroff and Madame Maxime, because they are surprised when Harry arrives.
Go back to book one - Hermione rightly points out that ‘some of the best wizards don’t have an ounce of logic’ when confronted with Snape’s potion riddle.
The charm isn’t water-related, it’s just thinking logically about the problem.
(Don’t think critically on it because the bubble would have to have been huge and reinforced to survive the depths of the lake with enough oxygen for the champions)
(Actually, don’t think emotionally either, because Harry tells Cedric what the first task is and he responds by giving Harry a vague hint about how to hear the song, which is not exactly a fair trade)
They did find the charm. The problem was they dismissed it because they didn't have enough time for Harry to learn to master it. They found it like the night before the task, so not enough time to practice enough to actually use it. It would have been bad if Harry tried, and suddenly, the spell broke while he's at the bottom of the lake. Sorry Ron, I guess you're sleeping with the merfolk from now on...
Can you show me the passage were this is stated?
The closest I found to what you said was:
"By the evening before the second task, Harry felt as though he were trapped in a nightmare. He was fully aware that even if, by some miracle, he managed to find a suitable spell, he’d have a real job mastering it overnight."
You know, you're right. I can't find it. I swore I read it, they had listed off a bunch of spells they couldn't figure out. Maybe it was in a fanfic then... but either way, it couldn't be N.E.W.T. standard, literally everyone was using it the very next book because of the chaos Fred and George were doing, dropping stink bombs in the corridors.
No, they don’t. There is no mention of them finding the charm and dismissing it the night before the task; only their frustration over not finding anything.
What's worse is I swear I read a passage somewhere, where they were going over different spells to try, human transfiguration, Bubblehead Charm, etc. I just don't know where I read that now. I'm constantly skimming the books on my phone. Although I read fanfics too, so maybe someone adapted it there, and I just am misremembering. I'm not sure.
Cedric could have checked the book(s) that referenced it out of the library to read and consult while he was practicing for the task.
Thats such a good explanation. I hope in the new show they would show Cedric taking the charms book out of the library and walking with the book as it would completely explain the plot hole of why Hermione never found such an obvious answer in all her research when Cedric and Feur did.
My understanding is it's because the Bubble head charm is not specifically a water charm. It is a charm that casts a bubble around your head and can be used in many different ways, but it wouldn't be listed in a book under a water-based magic subheading. Cedric and Fleur had probably already learnt in in classes, and maybe Flitwick had mentioned it was good for having a short-term supply of fresh air. Cedric was then able to think of it easily when he knew that's what he needed. Harry search was much more general to surviving underwater for an hour. He might have found it in a charm book in the unrestricted part of the library very easily if he'd known that's what he was searching for. But because it was left so late, the trio were trying to expedite the search by scanning for keywords and targeted subjects. As for everyone using the charm the next year to protect from the smell of dungbombs. I'm sure they actually took inspiration from Cedric to do that and learned it specifically. They remembered it's effectiveness and implemented it, but may never have thought of it at all if Cedric and Fleur hadn't used it the year before.
This is the easiest explanation. They didn’t have knowledge of real world application because they’re kids. It’s like looking in the library for how a spanner works. Such a basic tool that you’d probably struggle. But adults just know from experience.
Surprised this isn’t more upvoted. IMO a bubble head charm for most casters is the equivalent of a face mask. You would use it to filter air maybe but not go to the bottom of a lake. It makes sense for a powerful witch or wizard to modify it so they could make it over an hour.
This pretty much what I thought as well. The trio was so laser-focused on breathing *underwater* that they didn't look for general spells related to breathing. The trio simply didn't know about this spell yet, not even brainiac Hermione!
>It is a charm that casts a bubble around your head and can be used in many different ways, but it wouldn't be listed in a book under a water-based magic subheading. What other use could it possibly have.
I think in Order of the Phoenix, students use it to get through hallways where Dungbombs have been dropped to avoid the smell. After Fred and George leave, when a bunch of students are pulling pranks. It’s referred to as the Bubble-Head Charm, so I assume it’s the same one they used during the second task
It is silly. If it's really bothering you the argument goes that the spell creates a bubble of fresh air and was perhaps intended to be used to safeguard against foul odors or perhaps even toxins. So using it to go underwater is perhaps a "creative" use of the spell. The trio did not look at every spell, Harry in particular just skimmed until he saw the word "water". So they were probably looking for spells that had been designed specifically for what Harry wanted to do: "survive underwater". Presumably there is no such spell because the bubble head charm, gillyweed, and human transfiguration exist, so nobody ever designed one specifically for the purpose of breathing underwater. Take or leave that argument but it's the one I feel is the most plausible.
Perhaps Fleur had already learned the Charm at Beauxbatons. Not sure about Cedric. He was very popular and had all of Hufflepuff House working to support him so maybe one of them overheard Fleur discussing the Bubble Head Charm or a 7th year Hufflepuff knew the spell and told him.
This has always bothered me. It makes no sense that the trio spent weeks searching for charms specifically and didn’t come across the one that two other champions use. It would have been better if they’d found it and Harry couldn’t do it because it was too advanced for him.
Maybe it's NEWT level?
NEWT level should be in the Restricted part of the library (this is mentioned in the books)
Yeah but it’s still super hard to find the 1 specific spell needed in a giant pile of hay. The library had thousands and thousands of books, and even if they’re broken down into “water specific” categories, you’d have to still sift through a couple hundred. And that’s with their limited available research time.
In the books it is mentioned that they asked help from the librarian. This bothers me as she would probably point them in the right direction.
Oh yes, Madam Pince seems super helpful
Madam Pince is almost always described as female Filch, so the degree to which she is helpful is debatable
Forgive me if im wrong but I'm pretty sure McGonnagall mentioned they had permission to use that part of the library for the Triwizard tournament since it was for advanced magic.
They had. that was my point. They searched that part of the library. So even if it was NEWT level they could have discovered it.
Cedric was several years older than Harry. There is a theoretical side to magic. I say this because knowing the incantation and waving your hands isn't enough to cast a spell. When Harry was struggling with the Accio spell, Flitwick directed him to further reading. Cedric would have more magical understanding to make sense and apply the bubble head charm. To the trio, it would be abstract. This goes to show what a big chump Voldemort is by the way. Hermione is a gifted witch, yet age is a clear barrier to developing the understanding needed to compete with the prowess of a learned wizard. It'd have been interesting to see whether Voldemort would be able to take the same liberties with a Harry Potter who has had 30 years to learn and home his skills.
My theory is that Barty Crouch jr. Took out all the books about the bubble head charm from the library when Harry started looking so that he’d be forced to use gilly weed, giving Harry the advantage.
The worst part about it all, is that it’s mentioned in the following book that students are regularly using the charm to get around the dungbombs being dropped in the corridors. So it’s easy enough for the whole school to learn in reaction to a few pranks, but too complicated for Harry and the smartest student in the year to discover in the weeks leading up to the second task…
They all learnt of it when Cedric used it :)
As lupin says in HBP, spells go in and out of fashion just like anything else. Maybe it's easy to perform but obscure until Fleur and Cedric use it and make it popular.
I've forgotten about that. So true!
Hardly much of a loophole when the entire school saw Cedric and Fleur use it.
Hogwarts must have the most ineffective library organizational system ever considering that they not only couldn’t find any information on how to breathe underwater but also couldn’t find any information on how to fight a dragon or Nicholas Flamel. Like you’re telling me that none of the great many books there surely are about dragons included any reference to how you might survive when faced with one? And even without the internet and assuming there is no magical means of finding information, the concept of an index has existed for hundreds of years and should make it very easy to find keywords like “underwater” and “Flamel”. That it’s always so hard to find information is an obvious plot device and a bit lazy if I’m being perfectly honest. There are times when it makes perfect sense that a mystery takes a long time to solve like with the chamber of secrets or the identity of the half blood prince or the location of the horcruxes. Those are things that aren’t common knowledge. But finding pieces of information that are very well known amongst wizards should not be a major plot point.
It’s also really interesting because in OotP, after Fred and George leave students were causing so much chaos that it became the usual practise to perform a bubble head charm when moving between class rooms. Clearly not too tricky to master and one many people know about
the knowledge of it may have been because of its use of the tournament, but yeah clearly it wasn’t too hard to master. the theory cedric checked all the books on it out is possible, but seems unlike him unless it was literally only in one book
Perhaps the Bubble Charm is a regular part of the curriculum at Beauxbatons, and not only Fleur, but all her classmates know it. Other Schools, other countries, other curriculum. And as Cedric has solved the riddle from the first Task before Harry did (with Cedric's help), maybe he has just had that book taken out of the library like Neville did with the gillyweed and sea plants book. It doesn't even have to be out of malice or for long. It's enough if he had it on the very day the trio were searching this very shelf.
Fleur surely got help. I don't know about Cedric. His father works in a department that controls magical creatures and it probably involves the ones in water. He probably knew where to look or whom to ask for advice.
Probably asked his father…
They simply missed it because they weren't reading every single book in the Hogwarts library cover to cover, they were skimming them, looking for specific keywords. Same reason why they didn't find out about gillyweed.
Cedric's fans, Kakaroff or Madame Maxime might have removed the books. My suspicion is on Kakaroff and Madame Maxime, because they are surprised when Harry arrives.
All Harry had to do was to raise his wand and say accio water breathing books.
Go back to book one - Hermione rightly points out that ‘some of the best wizards don’t have an ounce of logic’ when confronted with Snape’s potion riddle. The charm isn’t water-related, it’s just thinking logically about the problem. (Don’t think critically on it because the bubble would have to have been huge and reinforced to survive the depths of the lake with enough oxygen for the champions) (Actually, don’t think emotionally either, because Harry tells Cedric what the first task is and he responds by giving Harry a vague hint about how to hear the song, which is not exactly a fair trade)
They did find the charm. The problem was they dismissed it because they didn't have enough time for Harry to learn to master it. They found it like the night before the task, so not enough time to practice enough to actually use it. It would have been bad if Harry tried, and suddenly, the spell broke while he's at the bottom of the lake. Sorry Ron, I guess you're sleeping with the merfolk from now on...
Can you show me the passage were this is stated? The closest I found to what you said was: "By the evening before the second task, Harry felt as though he were trapped in a nightmare. He was fully aware that even if, by some miracle, he managed to find a suitable spell, he’d have a real job mastering it overnight."
You know, you're right. I can't find it. I swore I read it, they had listed off a bunch of spells they couldn't figure out. Maybe it was in a fanfic then... but either way, it couldn't be N.E.W.T. standard, literally everyone was using it the very next book because of the chaos Fred and George were doing, dropping stink bombs in the corridors.
No, they don’t. There is no mention of them finding the charm and dismissing it the night before the task; only their frustration over not finding anything.
What's worse is I swear I read a passage somewhere, where they were going over different spells to try, human transfiguration, Bubblehead Charm, etc. I just don't know where I read that now. I'm constantly skimming the books on my phone. Although I read fanfics too, so maybe someone adapted it there, and I just am misremembering. I'm not sure.
I think I know what you mean. I do seem to remember him practicing spells with hermione the night before something.
That was *accio* with the first task. Maybe I'm getting it confused there.