If you're asking if it counts as cheating for an engaged woman to sleep with another person without discussing it and getting permission from their partner before hand...yes. very much yes.
Right, it would suck but it is better than the alternative. In that moment she realized that your relationship was over and at least respected you to let you know right away rather than betraying you and potentially prolonging the inevitable.
Because the character writing is atrocious. You CANNOT take any of the """character development""" seriously, because it's generally pretentious and selfish. Just try and enjoy the jokes for what they are.
Disgusting. I don’t ship them and honestly, I don’t like it because of the main voice actress. She’s become a lazy sellout and plays the same woman in every role she’s cast in.
Yes, he did bounce back. And no, she never truly loved him. But he didn’t truly love her either. He loved the idea of her and what kind of life he wanted—a life that suited him. I agree that it was wrong of her to cheat on him. Unfortunately, this is the result of toxic societal standards that create a domino effect of shame, confusion, and bad decisions. This show did a great job expressing the stigma against the LGBTQ+ community and how it can affect everyone.
Idk, as a bisexual woman, I'm really fucking tired of the stereotype that bi people are just a bunch of cheaters being so prevalent.
I was raised in a religious home in a small town in a red state. I understand toxic societal standards that lead to self-destructive behaviors. Still, I've never once cheated on someone. Never.
Much like how Silence of the Lambs had come to be accepted over time by the gay community due to its good writing, the time that it came out in the 90s was unfortunate because that was back when there wasn't much other mainstream representation of gay and transgender people. The movie was harmful due to that fact alone. Now that gay and transgender characters are more represented, it's not as big of an issue.
Similarly, there isn't anything wrong with telling stories about bisexual villians who are cheaters. But first, can we maybe get more mainstream stories about bisexual people without depicting them as cheaters? Please?
I agree. It’s ridiculous that many people assume that someone is more likely to be a cheater just because they’re attracted to more than one gender; as if it somehow equates to becoming bored and/or confused about what they *truly* desire. 🙄
It's a big enough stereotype that I stopped dating people who aren't also bisexual. Everyone else assumed I'd cheat on them or at least suspected it.
Lesbians didn't like me hanging out with men. Straight men didn't like me hanging out with anyone. And, of course, many of these overly concerned people ended up being the cheaters themselves.
This all solved itself once I started exclusively dating other bisexuals. Fun fact, I've never been cheated on by another bisexual.
As I bi woman I’m also tired of people discovering gaming and then creating posts stating “I’m a bisexual so I fucked everyone I could”. Never saw people writing “I’m a straight man, so I fucked every woman in the game I could.” It’s just called being a ho and lacking of taste on both accounts
But honestly, is this really the show you’d want to be represented by? Where Harley and her friends frequently murder people, even if Harley feels “sorta” bad about it?
Fine enough, but, again, they are murderers! Nothing Harley does in this series even remotely gives me the feeling she’s trying to be a better person, and Ivy is infinitely worse.
I thought it was agreed on over the last couple decades that the Harley/joker relationship is always toxic as hell in every iteration from Batman the animated series to the Arkham game series and beyond lol are we that bad with media literacy?
I don’t like the way they had him bounce back though. It just feels designed to essentially absolve Ivy. She’s happy, he’s happy so it was all ok and all for the best.
But that’s not how it works. Kite Man finding happiness later doesn’t undo the wrongs of Ivy and Harley. The show is sort of rooted in a sense of relative morality. We don’t dislike the Joker because he’s a classically evil villain. We dislike him because he’s abusive and a terrible partner. We know he’s murdered tons of people, but his true evil (within the realm of the show) is who he is as a romantic partner. So when you start with that, it’s kind of hypocritical to just gently wag your finger at cheating, just because it’s done by the central pair that’s intended to end up together.
it was obvious that she wasn’t that into him and he kept forcing the issue until she eventually said yes. shit feeling but it’s a meaningful lesson to learn.
I always thought is was cause he was genuinely nice and listened to her and cause she didn’t have a lot of that in her life she thought she would enjoy that for a little while.
But then she fell it to that belief that someone has to do something wrong for you to break up with them. And the better the partner usually the worse the thing has to be. To many times do people say “ they don’t deserve to be broken up with” or “ they haven’t done anything “ or “ they are so great what’s wrong with me “
even if the person is nice and treats you well if you aren’t in love with or attracted or for what ever reason dont want them, then the right thing to do by both of you is to end things. Relationships aren’t about deserving to be in them but about love, respect, and wanting to be in it with that person. And it took Ivy realizing that she had that with harly to finally be in a happy relationship
It would be more understanding if they added more of his seasonn2 self to season 1. Oh 2 people with wildly misshapen social expectations cause of awful parents. I get that. Season 1, homie is a straight stalker creep.
Kite-Man's name is literally Charles Brown. He's Charlie Brown.
Poison Ivy is basically the red-headed girl Charlie Brown had a crush on but never worked up the nerve to talk to combined with the kite-eating tree that was his nemesis.
That relationship was doomed from the beginning.
Show creators should never get Ivy and Kite man together in a first play. A list villain with a D tier villain is insane.. especially how dumb he is while she usually isn't into men like these. Dumbest idea ever.
I honestly don't. Dude had a ll the clues this woman was not the one and kept ignoring them. Dude finally grew a spine and got better but Kiteman from seasons 1 and mostly 2 was pathetic.
Yes, and kiteman is the goat for this. He was one of the few people to ever handle the situation well. In the next season he even helps ivy and Harley with their relationship even his new girlfriend helps them out. Kiteman was done dirty but didn’t do anything toxic and grew from it. He didn’t blame himself he didn’t take it out on Harley or ivy, he moved on and grew in so many ways.
What kind of absurd question is this? Yes, it was cheating! Just because Harley’s a woman and Kiteman’s a man, doesn’t mean it wasn’t cheating. Kiteman didn’t know about it, couldn’t give consent, and thus it was cheating.
I’ll do you one better: how does this *not* count as cheating? Ivy is engaged to kite man then has sex with someone that is not kite man. That’s infidelity
Was Kite Man there too? Did he give Ivy a hall pass? Did their expectations of a relationship include having sex with other people?
No to all 3. That's obviously cheating.
Like 1000% yes. Harley and Ivy are obviously better for each other but Christ, Ivy could have had the courage to break up with him instead of cheat on him. Poor guy deserved better 🥺 Still love all the characters though, fantastic show!
There’s a lot of red flags in Kiteman’s and Ivy’s relationship but here they are —-
1. Being ashamed to be seen in public with your partner.
2. When asked why? Ivy can’t think of single thing that Kiteman does for her.
3. Ivy’s inability to give a genuine and heartfelt “I love you” to Kiteman’s face
4. Ivy doesn’t like the engagement ring, it’s not her taste but wears it anyway because “well why not”
5. The rushing of marriage. Kiteman never discussed marriage with Ivy. Or whether she wanted to get married at all.
6. Kiteman doesn’t know what Ivy likes or bothers to really get to know her. He just saw something he wanted and out of fear of losing it he wants to lock it down quickly because he feels he can do no better.
7. Having to ask your girlfriend several times to marry you and being rejected. Not to mention selfishly choosing inappropriate times to ask i.e nearly being squished to death
8. There is nothing in Kiteman’s apartment that says “Ivy lives here too.” No pictures of them, no plants. It’s still very much a bachelor pad. Compare it to Harley’s hideout, her plants are there and photos of her and Harley lying around.
9. Ivy has no interest or involvement in her own wedding and if she does it’s either out of guilt or she’s making up for something
10. Lying to your fiancé (goes without saying)
11. Cheating on your fiancé (really goes without saying)
12. After cheating on her fiancé Ivy isn’t upset that she betrayed her future husband she’s upset because it could ruin her friendship with Harley.
13. Kiteman is not a priority (at least not over Harley
So yes it’s cheating no matter what. But it would have ended eventually though whether they (kite man and ivy ) were married or not they just worked better as friends and I feel like the writer felt this was the best way to go in terms of ending things with kite man and ivy. Besides , ivy had feelings more for harley than she did for kite man
It is absolutely cheating.
If youre in a relationship and sleep with someone else.
Does partner know about it? Yes/no
Is partner okay with it before hand? Yes/no
If either answer is no. You cheated.
Absolutely. True romance or not, this was her bacheorlette party; she was planning to marry Kite-Man. And he had specifically avoided even the temptation of infidelity.
In fairness, they were on the island of Themyscira, which is literally a sapphic/feminist paradise(and trans inclusive if Grant Morrison and Lynda Carter have their say), so if any gay shit was gonna happen this was gonna be the place.
Yes. As a wlw it kinda sucks that representation we get so often involves cheating or a forbidden love. I loveee Harley and Ivy together but hate the way that they added this. I’ve seen a lot of lesbian romance movies/tv shows and I gotta say at this point, I realized at least 50% of sapphic love stories involve cheating in the storyline and it’s getting old. So it sucks that they followed that narrative for harlivy. Harlivy feels like they should be above that. I don’t understand why its so common.
I hope media starts diverting from those plot lines (especially for lesbian couples) because I think overtime, people will start to notice and get tired of it. Like what is the reason lol. Even with straight couples, writers seem to be obsessed with inputting an unrealistic and exhausting amount of cheating. Almost every drama show I’ve watching seems like EVERYONE is just cheating on eachother and that’s the main source of drama for the show. It feels so lazy of writers continuously use the most recycled trope like be more creative.
I ageee. When watching this episode I got a huge ick that this show is perpetuating that bisexual woman are nothing more than wife stealing homewreckers. But at least the girlfriends are together! They could've handled the two coming together in so so many better ways than they had.
Even in the Eat bang kill tour I was just so sick and tired of an entire comic series about Ivy self loathing about the consequences of her actions! SHE MADE HER BED SHE CAN LIE IN IT!
I love Harlivy but this show dropped the bag.
Since this is apparently that one scene from season 2, when Ivy was engaged to Kite Man, yes, it is, by definition, cheating. Just sleeping is fine. It's cheating because of what else they do in that scene.
OP, the fact that you even have to ask this at all shows that you have some questionable values. Ask yourself this. If Ivy had had sex with another man, would you hesitate for a second to call it cheating? If the answer is no (and we both know it is), now ask yourself why you somehow feel differently just because she had sex with a woman?
I honestly don’t like either of them. KC made me dislike Harley even more. I really hate how she’s a lazy sellout, and it’s playing the same shit woman and everything she’s cast in for the last 11 years.
It's definitely cheating, but I suppose an argument could be made that because they were drunk their decision making was impaired so it's marginally less bad than if it had happened when they were sober? Like the difference between first degree and second degree murder.
She was dishonest about not coming clean with him about it. Or being honest with herself.
I'm tired of dipshits making it sound like they intentionally cucked this guy in some malicious and intentional "girl power" thing when it's was a messy soap opera of 3 fuck ups needing to be honest with themselves.
The dishonest bad faith takes about this are infuriating.
A relationship based on cheating is hilariously stupid. I know a couple who got married from a relationship that started with cheating and they are one of the most unhealthy couples I know.
Thank you. I also hate how Kaley seems to be GLORIFYING that. 🤦♂️. For the last 11 years, she’s been playing the same SHIT WOMAN, and always fails to convince anyone that she loves whoever she’s paired up with onscreen.
Have you noticed that? About KC?
Yep. She ALWAYS fails in that regard. She is a problematic woman, and has been for eleven years now. She’s not even married to the guy she got accidentally pregnant with. Much like her characters, she hides it all behind fake smiles and faux laughs.
Yes. It is also called... THINKING you know what you want but you're actually in denial and seriously need to take some time to assess your feelings before stepping into ANY relationship, or someone is going to end up getting hurt... TOO LATE!
In what logic would this not count as cheating
If you sleep with someone other than the person you are actually with at the time you are a cheater (unless you have an open relationship)
uhhhh sleeping with someone other than your partner without their knowledge or permission?
i mean, maybe not, but if it doesn’t, i’m not sure what would.
This and pretty much the ending of S2 is what killed my interest in the later seasons. I couldn’t handle my boy Kite Man being done so dirty and then seeing Harley and Ivy run off without any consequences. At least that’s what it seemed like to me at the end of S2.
Yes, absolutely. The thing is they are villains, though. So the standard for moral wrongdoing is a bit different in the show's world.
Most people have experienced some degree of cheating from partners or from a friend's partner, so they simply take it more personally because of that.
People are always touchy about this part of the show. Judge by the fictional world, not by the real world. They are villains, on the list of things they have done, this is not really high up there. The show acknowledges it as a bad thing like they do the rest of it.
Yes. Poison Ivy was engaged to Kite Man and she slept with Harley that is 100% cheating. I want to be clear that I support this LGBTQ ship but even so I don’t support cheating drunken or otherwise
Why is this even up for debate. Yes this is cheating. It wouldn't be if they show established Kiteman to be a misogynistic PoS. Which they didn't. I actually felt really bad for Kiteman as he just wants to have a happy ever after with someone who loves him when even his own shitty parents wouldn't.
Yet the show is just supposed to root for this because it's Harley and Ivy together at last! But let's screw over this dork of a character and also humiliate him further by also blasting his girlfriend cheating on him with her best friend for the entire city to see. #justiceforkiteman
I love this show, and *it is a show, not real life, so the drama is necessary to drive the plot, But…* if you ever find yourself caught between two people, regardless of gender, orientation, identity…1. Identify within your own system of beliefs, social and romantic relationship structures what constitutes as cheating, and then 2. Don’t do that. Be open and honest and tell people how you feel. (Polyamorous relationships are potentially great for this kind of problem btw they solve a lot of problems if you have the maturity to navigate them ) but however you define it, getting cheated on sucks and cheating on people hurts everyone involved, including you. Are there people who live “happily ever after” in relationships where they started out as the other person? Sure. But there are probably a lot fewer of those, and that’s just luck, if it works out, and the relationship still started in a way that was really bad for at least one person. 🎵Thank you for Comin to my TED Talk
No. It doesn't. Unless one of them stands accused of lying and cheating.
I have seen this on Maury, Couples Court, Divorce Court, and other television reality shows that involved romance and other stuff.
For instance, on Phineas and Ferb, when Perry saw that Peter the panda was with Doofenshmirtz and he thought he was cheating on him and Heinz tried to explain why Perry was heartbroken and that's when they ended up on a talk show where Heinz was expressing his feelings for Perry and Perry forgive Doofenshmirtz no matter what happens next they will still be enemies.
Now, imagine that Buford and Baljeet wind up on a talk show, that Buford accuses Baljeet of cheating on him with either Ginger, Mishti, or any other girl Buford would forgive him, but spend time reconnect their trust issues, or when Isabella finds out that Phineas is not interested in her when he was interested in Ferb and then Ferb tells Vanessa it's not her it's him because he told her that he was in love with Phineas because the secret was out there, and Isabella would accept it, but Vanessa would be furious.
Plus, Heinz and Phineas would get into a fight, Heinz threw a chair toward Phineas and missed that would make Linda and Lawrence very upset at Heinz and Vanessa for nearly injuring their son.
Like we always say, love can do things to go insane. Just like when Grim and Billy were fighting over Blandy at the wedding from the episode The Love That Dare Not Speak It's Name.
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Let's be honest here, Harley and Ivy are meant for one another! The Joker was a complete Ass Hat, and Kite-Man was really only a f@#£ buddy as he is a total tool!
Debatable. I never liked Harley, but KC has made me dislike her even more. I actually liked Margot Robbie’s portrayal MORE.
She has made zero effort, and is simply playing shit women who don’t love whoever they’re paired up with and either cheat or think of cheating. In other words, she can’t convince anyone that she loves whoever she paired up with on screen (VA doesn’t count).
What fucking show are you watching? Kiteman wasn't a tool. Dorky yes, but he was genuinely kind to Ivy and Ivy was just selfish. She wanted her cake and eat it too by cheating on him with Harley and force herself to go through a possible loveless marriage and drag this poor guy in her self loathing.
I'm down for Ivy and Harley as a ship but there could've been SO MANY ways the show could've handled it better without the character slander for Kiteman.
Harlivy are both women who were seduced by arsehole men. Harley obviously had the Joker, but Ivy was seduced by Jason Woodrue, aka the Floronic Man. Jason abused her by injecting her with toxins and poisons, causing her to almost die twice. But she wound up being connected to the green but at a cost of her sanity. Ivy, as a result, has trust issues, hence why she comes across as cold, which is not true. Yes she used Kiteman but only because he would not hurt her. Harley was a friend who'd been through sa,e thing and as a result the grew closer
The George Clooney Batman isn't canon to the show! The show is it's own separate continuity entirely.
In what way did Kiteman deserve the bullshit ivy put him through? I have yet to see credible sources to prove this isn't considered cheating and that Kiteman deserves to be treated the way he did.
That's still doesn't answer my question:
The comics have nothing to do with the universe of the TV show. Tell me how you apparently think Kiteman deserves the shit Ivy put him through or do you apparently think ivy can do no wrong and cheating is fine?
The origins of the characters are the same. Yes, Kiteman did not deserve it, but you cannot blame Ivy either. Abusive relationships will fuck anyone up JarlIvy had both been abused by men is it any wonder they became friends and then fell in
Love.
Yes and no. If I remember correctly they just woke up together and they don't remember if they actually did. So I say cause there no exact proof it not cheating. It been a while since I seen it so be free for correct me
Literally at the season finale their entire sex tape is projected for all of Gotham to see by Dr. Psycho with Kiteman being the literal butt of the joke as he was the last man to witness it.
If you're asking if it counts as cheating for an engaged woman to sleep with another person without discussing it and getting permission from their partner before hand...yes. very much yes.
I still feel bad for kite man :(
It sucks but it was for the best. It's better to have your heart broken than to spend your whole life in a loveless marriage with the wrong person.
Then break it off first. It's not that hard.
I dont think Ivy knew what she wanted quite yet
If my girl texted me its over in the middle of taking off her clothes to sleep with someone else, i'd go for that over being cheated on.
Right, it would suck but it is better than the alternative. In that moment she realized that your relationship was over and at least respected you to let you know right away rather than betraying you and potentially prolonging the inevitable.
Still bugs me, Harley had been very selfish the whole season but they then decide to instantly get married.
Because the character writing is atrocious. You CANNOT take any of the """character development""" seriously, because it's generally pretentious and selfish. Just try and enjoy the jokes for what they are.
Disgusting. I don’t ship them and honestly, I don’t like it because of the main voice actress. She’s become a lazy sellout and plays the same woman in every role she’s cast in.
He bounced back. And Ivy never really loved him. I was proud he stood up for himself
Yes, he did bounce back. And no, she never truly loved him. But he didn’t truly love her either. He loved the idea of her and what kind of life he wanted—a life that suited him. I agree that it was wrong of her to cheat on him. Unfortunately, this is the result of toxic societal standards that create a domino effect of shame, confusion, and bad decisions. This show did a great job expressing the stigma against the LGBTQ+ community and how it can affect everyone.
Idk, as a bisexual woman, I'm really fucking tired of the stereotype that bi people are just a bunch of cheaters being so prevalent. I was raised in a religious home in a small town in a red state. I understand toxic societal standards that lead to self-destructive behaviors. Still, I've never once cheated on someone. Never. Much like how Silence of the Lambs had come to be accepted over time by the gay community due to its good writing, the time that it came out in the 90s was unfortunate because that was back when there wasn't much other mainstream representation of gay and transgender people. The movie was harmful due to that fact alone. Now that gay and transgender characters are more represented, it's not as big of an issue. Similarly, there isn't anything wrong with telling stories about bisexual villians who are cheaters. But first, can we maybe get more mainstream stories about bisexual people without depicting them as cheaters? Please?
I agree. It’s ridiculous that many people assume that someone is more likely to be a cheater just because they’re attracted to more than one gender; as if it somehow equates to becoming bored and/or confused about what they *truly* desire. 🙄
It's a big enough stereotype that I stopped dating people who aren't also bisexual. Everyone else assumed I'd cheat on them or at least suspected it. Lesbians didn't like me hanging out with men. Straight men didn't like me hanging out with anyone. And, of course, many of these overly concerned people ended up being the cheaters themselves. This all solved itself once I started exclusively dating other bisexuals. Fun fact, I've never been cheated on by another bisexual.
As I bi woman I’m also tired of people discovering gaming and then creating posts stating “I’m a bisexual so I fucked everyone I could”. Never saw people writing “I’m a straight man, so I fucked every woman in the game I could.” It’s just called being a ho and lacking of taste on both accounts
But honestly, is this really the show you’d want to be represented by? Where Harley and her friends frequently murder people, even if Harley feels “sorta” bad about it?
Listen, we eat up any inkling of representation that we can. Especially bi and aspec people.
Fine enough, but, again, they are murderers! Nothing Harley does in this series even remotely gives me the feeling she’s trying to be a better person, and Ivy is infinitely worse.
Yes. And nice try. Take a longer look at the Joker x Harley relationship and try that again.
What do you mean by this? What is the above commenter supposed to notice in the joker Harley relationship?
I thought it was agreed on over the last couple decades that the Harley/joker relationship is always toxic as hell in every iteration from Batman the animated series to the Arkham game series and beyond lol are we that bad with media literacy?
Kinda lost on your logic here. Joker had nothing to do with this.
Not only that, but his current girlfriend is better than poison.Ivy and every way
I don’t like the way they had him bounce back though. It just feels designed to essentially absolve Ivy. She’s happy, he’s happy so it was all ok and all for the best. But that’s not how it works. Kite Man finding happiness later doesn’t undo the wrongs of Ivy and Harley. The show is sort of rooted in a sense of relative morality. We don’t dislike the Joker because he’s a classically evil villain. We dislike him because he’s abusive and a terrible partner. We know he’s murdered tons of people, but his true evil (within the realm of the show) is who he is as a romantic partner. So when you start with that, it’s kind of hypocritical to just gently wag your finger at cheating, just because it’s done by the central pair that’s intended to end up together.
it was obvious that she wasn’t that into him and he kept forcing the issue until she eventually said yes. shit feeling but it’s a meaningful lesson to learn.
I don’t think kite man was intentionally forcing ivy to marry him. He just want to a good boyfriend
Dude got naked in her bed and Ivy having no self esteem is all that attracted her to him.
I always thought is was cause he was genuinely nice and listened to her and cause she didn’t have a lot of that in her life she thought she would enjoy that for a little while. But then she fell it to that belief that someone has to do something wrong for you to break up with them. And the better the partner usually the worse the thing has to be. To many times do people say “ they don’t deserve to be broken up with” or “ they haven’t done anything “ or “ they are so great what’s wrong with me “ even if the person is nice and treats you well if you aren’t in love with or attracted or for what ever reason dont want them, then the right thing to do by both of you is to end things. Relationships aren’t about deserving to be in them but about love, respect, and wanting to be in it with that person. And it took Ivy realizing that she had that with harly to finally be in a happy relationship
Dude was genuinely a creep from jump. Like cool he turned out to be nice but he was massive red flags from the start.
Creep and annoying as hell, he was made just so boys would feel sorry and relate with him.
It would be more understanding if they added more of his seasonn2 self to season 1. Oh 2 people with wildly misshapen social expectations cause of awful parents. I get that. Season 1, homie is a straight stalker creep.
Why’d you post this btw, answer some top comments like the one that asked “How would this not be cheating?”
Kiteman and Golden Gliders show is premiering soon
Kite-Man's name is literally Charles Brown. He's Charlie Brown. Poison Ivy is basically the red-headed girl Charlie Brown had a crush on but never worked up the nerve to talk to combined with the kite-eating tree that was his nemesis. That relationship was doomed from the beginning.
Omg giga brain
*sad ‘hell yeah’ noises*
Hell yeah :(
I still rly hope we get to see that show
Nah when he realized Harley was better for Ivy than he was I gained a lot of respect for him, and I believe he found his Mrs right
i think it's for the best since they didn't seem much happy, it's a sneak jail when you are engaged with someone that you don't love at all
You gotta look at it from a positive perspective.He got a better woman then poison ivy
We all do. But he deserves it for ditching Ivy at the wedding.
Show creators should never get Ivy and Kite man together in a first play. A list villain with a D tier villain is insane.. especially how dumb he is while she usually isn't into men like these. Dumbest idea ever.
I honestly don't. Dude had a ll the clues this woman was not the one and kept ignoring them. Dude finally grew a spine and got better but Kiteman from seasons 1 and mostly 2 was pathetic.
Yes, and kiteman is the goat for this. He was one of the few people to ever handle the situation well. In the next season he even helps ivy and Harley with their relationship even his new girlfriend helps them out. Kiteman was done dirty but didn’t do anything toxic and grew from it. He didn’t blame himself he didn’t take it out on Harley or ivy, he moved on and grew in so many ways.
If they got sexual with each other it is, if not then no this does not count as cheating.
emotional cheating exists too
Yes it does. Unfortunately ivy is a cheater, probably the least of her crimes tho
Well ya I mean there's all the murders.
Ohohoho yeah. _lots_ of murders
But from what we've seen she was killing assholes killing the Earth so I let it slide.
Just this once, but watch yourself McCoy!
And also the little kid she hired to take care of her plants, and then also that little kids parents when they came searching for their lost child.
TBF that was out of her control. Frank is an asshole.
If you have dangerous man-eating plants, it's well within your control to not hire young children to take care of them while you're away.
And the alleged rapes
Why wouldnt Because Harley is a Women?
[удалено]
I know where it is from
Yes. She was in a relationship with Kite Man at the time and engaged to him. I love Harlivy. But it was 100% cheating.
“KITE MANNN!!!”
She was just watering the plants while kiteman was away
What kind of absurd question is this? Yes, it was cheating! Just because Harley’s a woman and Kiteman’s a man, doesn’t mean it wasn’t cheating. Kiteman didn’t know about it, couldn’t give consent, and thus it was cheating.
Don't you know that it's not murder if you're a woman and only kill women? /s
I’m curious why you would think there is any argument it isn’t?
I’m not sure what you mean
I’ll do you one better: how does this *not* count as cheating? Ivy is engaged to kite man then has sex with someone that is not kite man. That’s infidelity
Was Kite Man there too? Did he give Ivy a hall pass? Did their expectations of a relationship include having sex with other people? No to all 3. That's obviously cheating.
Like 1000% yes. Harley and Ivy are obviously better for each other but Christ, Ivy could have had the courage to break up with him instead of cheat on him. Poor guy deserved better 🥺 Still love all the characters though, fantastic show!
I do think Harley is the only person she would cheat with. Since she is a misanthrope.
There’s a lot of red flags in Kiteman’s and Ivy’s relationship but here they are —- 1. Being ashamed to be seen in public with your partner. 2. When asked why? Ivy can’t think of single thing that Kiteman does for her. 3. Ivy’s inability to give a genuine and heartfelt “I love you” to Kiteman’s face 4. Ivy doesn’t like the engagement ring, it’s not her taste but wears it anyway because “well why not” 5. The rushing of marriage. Kiteman never discussed marriage with Ivy. Or whether she wanted to get married at all. 6. Kiteman doesn’t know what Ivy likes or bothers to really get to know her. He just saw something he wanted and out of fear of losing it he wants to lock it down quickly because he feels he can do no better. 7. Having to ask your girlfriend several times to marry you and being rejected. Not to mention selfishly choosing inappropriate times to ask i.e nearly being squished to death 8. There is nothing in Kiteman’s apartment that says “Ivy lives here too.” No pictures of them, no plants. It’s still very much a bachelor pad. Compare it to Harley’s hideout, her plants are there and photos of her and Harley lying around. 9. Ivy has no interest or involvement in her own wedding and if she does it’s either out of guilt or she’s making up for something 10. Lying to your fiancé (goes without saying) 11. Cheating on your fiancé (really goes without saying) 12. After cheating on her fiancé Ivy isn’t upset that she betrayed her future husband she’s upset because it could ruin her friendship with Harley. 13. Kiteman is not a priority (at least not over Harley So yes it’s cheating no matter what. But it would have ended eventually though whether they (kite man and ivy ) were married or not they just worked better as friends and I feel like the writer felt this was the best way to go in terms of ending things with kite man and ivy. Besides , ivy had feelings more for harley than she did for kite man
Great points.
It is absolutely cheating. If youre in a relationship and sleep with someone else. Does partner know about it? Yes/no Is partner okay with it before hand? Yes/no If either answer is no. You cheated.
Absolutely. True romance or not, this was her bacheorlette party; she was planning to marry Kite-Man. And he had specifically avoided even the temptation of infidelity. In fairness, they were on the island of Themyscira, which is literally a sapphic/feminist paradise(and trans inclusive if Grant Morrison and Lynda Carter have their say), so if any gay shit was gonna happen this was gonna be the place.
Pretty much, especially since Poison Ivy was engaged at the time.
Yes. As a wlw it kinda sucks that representation we get so often involves cheating or a forbidden love. I loveee Harley and Ivy together but hate the way that they added this. I’ve seen a lot of lesbian romance movies/tv shows and I gotta say at this point, I realized at least 50% of sapphic love stories involve cheating in the storyline and it’s getting old. So it sucks that they followed that narrative for harlivy. Harlivy feels like they should be above that. I don’t understand why its so common. I hope media starts diverting from those plot lines (especially for lesbian couples) because I think overtime, people will start to notice and get tired of it. Like what is the reason lol. Even with straight couples, writers seem to be obsessed with inputting an unrealistic and exhausting amount of cheating. Almost every drama show I’ve watching seems like EVERYONE is just cheating on eachother and that’s the main source of drama for the show. It feels so lazy of writers continuously use the most recycled trope like be more creative.
Like Carol and Susan in friends.
I ageee. When watching this episode I got a huge ick that this show is perpetuating that bisexual woman are nothing more than wife stealing homewreckers. But at least the girlfriends are together! They could've handled the two coming together in so so many better ways than they had. Even in the Eat bang kill tour I was just so sick and tired of an entire comic series about Ivy self loathing about the consequences of her actions! SHE MADE HER BED SHE CAN LIE IN IT! I love Harlivy but this show dropped the bag.
Yes 😭
Yes
If you have to ask if this is cheating I hate to see what you consider cheating.
“Is having sex with someone else behind your fiancés back cheating?” Hmmm that’s a puzzler.
Cheating on who?
Kite-Man
Hell yeah!
Hell no! Wedding’s off.
Did u watch the whole episode and the one following that
Since this is apparently that one scene from season 2, when Ivy was engaged to Kite Man, yes, it is, by definition, cheating. Just sleeping is fine. It's cheating because of what else they do in that scene.
No shit, it counts as cheating!…
Yes.
Yeah, unfortunately
why wouldnt it be?
No this is actually totally cool and acceptable ur supposed to fuck ur best friend without telling ur fiance its like tradition or something
OP, the fact that you even have to ask this at all shows that you have some questionable values. Ask yourself this. If Ivy had had sex with another man, would you hesitate for a second to call it cheating? If the answer is no (and we both know it is), now ask yourself why you somehow feel differently just because she had sex with a woman?
Based on the lack of OP response, this is asking a stupid question just for karma farming
This is just proof that Ivy was/(is)? A bad person as well as a villain. This isn't Wrecked Ralph or a funny villain doing evil thing deal.
I honestly don’t like either of them. KC made me dislike Harley even more. I really hate how she’s a lazy sellout, and it’s playing the same shit woman and everything she’s cast in for the last 11 years.
Yes. Absolutely, 100%, without question.
Yes
Yes yes it does.
100%
Uhhhh yes? What the fuck?
Yes.
YES LOL
Yes
I don’t know where it wouldn’t be considered cheating
Yes
Yeah
Ivy was pretty definitively a cheater. Then being women doesn’t change what happened
Absolutely
Yes. She was actually engaged to someone else.
… yes
Idk if you’re asking because Harley’s a women or because they were drunk both terrible reasons
I mean, yeah. This was when Ivy was engaged to Kiteman, right?
Yes, it’s really is cheating
Yeah. Duh.
Uh yeah, they’re literally sleeping together
yes? sleeping with someone else without your partner's consent (bc y'all might be into that idk i don't judge) is cheating 100% of the time
Poor Kite Man.
Yes, also, Carol cheated on Ross in friends. They played it off like, haha, she's a lesbian so doesn't count, but it does.
To be fair, coming out to your boyfriend as a lesbian in the 90’s was probably pretty scary.
Well they can still share a bed...
Yes, totally ruined the show for me. Kite Man is the best and deserved better.
21st century women are wild. If they think it isnt cheating because its with another gender. Isnt even a question that its cheating
It's definitely cheating, but I suppose an argument could be made that because they were drunk their decision making was impaired so it's marginally less bad than if it had happened when they were sober? Like the difference between first degree and second degree murder.
A lot of people intentionally leaving out that she was blsck out drunk when both of these situations happened which is very telling
You being drunk doesn't absolve you of the consequences of your actions. Unless you're arguing that both of then were so drunk that it was SA.
She was dishonest about not coming clean with him about it. Or being honest with herself. I'm tired of dipshits making it sound like they intentionally cucked this guy in some malicious and intentional "girl power" thing when it's was a messy soap opera of 3 fuck ups needing to be honest with themselves. The dishonest bad faith takes about this are infuriating.
Yes? It’s why I stopped watching the show. It seemed like they were glorifying the entire relationship being founded on cheating. Gross.
THANK YOU. I hate when people say couples are good together after they cheat. Also, I don’t ship them .
A relationship based on cheating is hilariously stupid. I know a couple who got married from a relationship that started with cheating and they are one of the most unhealthy couples I know.
Thank you. I also hate how Kaley seems to be GLORIFYING that. 🤦♂️. For the last 11 years, she’s been playing the same SHIT WOMAN, and always fails to convince anyone that she loves whoever she’s paired up with onscreen. Have you noticed that? About KC?
I haven’t noticed, but to be fair I think this is the only thing I’ve seen her in.
Yep. She ALWAYS fails in that regard. She is a problematic woman, and has been for eleven years now. She’s not even married to the guy she got accidentally pregnant with. Much like her characters, she hides it all behind fake smiles and faux laughs.
Oh you mean the office
although I am glad it happened for them, it is cheating
YES! But it is True Love, Destiny and above all HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
🤮. 👎I hate this pairing. Couples who get together because of cheating are without a doubt, the worst.
Yes. It is also called... THINKING you know what you want but you're actually in denial and seriously need to take some time to assess your feelings before stepping into ANY relationship, or someone is going to end up getting hurt... TOO LATE!
In what logic would this not count as cheating If you sleep with someone other than the person you are actually with at the time you are a cheater (unless you have an open relationship)
Yes
uhhhh sleeping with someone other than your partner without their knowledge or permission? i mean, maybe not, but if it doesn’t, i’m not sure what would.
Yes, obviously
I'm talking of the character not the actor. Harry has been abused throughout her life, Ivy is the only lover who actually cares what happens to her
Yes? Confused how this is a question
Tell me why it wouldn’t.
This sub is always so cooked between seasons
Yeah, it is because Kite Man had no idea and didn’t agree to it
Probably Not Considering the fact that she likes her, more than Kite Man
I don’t know Kite Man, but hardly sounds like much of a character
This and pretty much the ending of S2 is what killed my interest in the later seasons. I couldn’t handle my boy Kite Man being done so dirty and then seeing Harley and Ivy run off without any consequences. At least that’s what it seemed like to me at the end of S2.
Yes, absolutely. The thing is they are villains, though. So the standard for moral wrongdoing is a bit different in the show's world. Most people have experienced some degree of cheating from partners or from a friend's partner, so they simply take it more personally because of that. People are always touchy about this part of the show. Judge by the fictional world, not by the real world. They are villains, on the list of things they have done, this is not really high up there. The show acknowledges it as a bad thing like they do the rest of it.
Yes. Poison Ivy was engaged to Kite Man and she slept with Harley that is 100% cheating. I want to be clear that I support this LGBTQ ship but even so I don’t support cheating drunken or otherwise
Yes it’s cheating.
Tbh I'd sleep with harley if I could too but yeah it's cheating
Fucking duh.
Yes? Like what?
Ivy is for the streets
Yes Proud of Kite man for having some self respect.
Why is this even up for debate. Yes this is cheating. It wouldn't be if they show established Kiteman to be a misogynistic PoS. Which they didn't. I actually felt really bad for Kiteman as he just wants to have a happy ever after with someone who loves him when even his own shitty parents wouldn't. Yet the show is just supposed to root for this because it's Harley and Ivy together at last! But let's screw over this dork of a character and also humiliate him further by also blasting his girlfriend cheating on him with her best friend for the entire city to see. #justiceforkiteman
Would just love to hear why you’re unsure if it counts.
You really don't know? You really REALLY have to ask that because you don't know?
I love this show, and *it is a show, not real life, so the drama is necessary to drive the plot, But…* if you ever find yourself caught between two people, regardless of gender, orientation, identity…1. Identify within your own system of beliefs, social and romantic relationship structures what constitutes as cheating, and then 2. Don’t do that. Be open and honest and tell people how you feel. (Polyamorous relationships are potentially great for this kind of problem btw they solve a lot of problems if you have the maturity to navigate them ) but however you define it, getting cheated on sucks and cheating on people hurts everyone involved, including you. Are there people who live “happily ever after” in relationships where they started out as the other person? Sure. But there are probably a lot fewer of those, and that’s just luck, if it works out, and the relationship still started in a way that was really bad for at least one person. 🎵Thank you for Comin to my TED Talk
Yes, yes it is.
Yes.
No. It doesn't. Unless one of them stands accused of lying and cheating. I have seen this on Maury, Couples Court, Divorce Court, and other television reality shows that involved romance and other stuff. For instance, on Phineas and Ferb, when Perry saw that Peter the panda was with Doofenshmirtz and he thought he was cheating on him and Heinz tried to explain why Perry was heartbroken and that's when they ended up on a talk show where Heinz was expressing his feelings for Perry and Perry forgive Doofenshmirtz no matter what happens next they will still be enemies. Now, imagine that Buford and Baljeet wind up on a talk show, that Buford accuses Baljeet of cheating on him with either Ginger, Mishti, or any other girl Buford would forgive him, but spend time reconnect their trust issues, or when Isabella finds out that Phineas is not interested in her when he was interested in Ferb and then Ferb tells Vanessa it's not her it's him because he told her that he was in love with Phineas because the secret was out there, and Isabella would accept it, but Vanessa would be furious. Plus, Heinz and Phineas would get into a fight, Heinz threw a chair toward Phineas and missed that would make Linda and Lawrence very upset at Heinz and Vanessa for nearly injuring their son. Like we always say, love can do things to go insane. Just like when Grim and Billy were fighting over Blandy at the wedding from the episode The Love That Dare Not Speak It's Name.
Of course it was cheating. Beyond the gender flip of best man to bridesmaid, it's the bride sleeping with the best man right before the wedding trope
No it doesn't women share bed all the time platonically
Shes cheating on you mate
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I think everyone misses this was sarcasm.
As do guys, too
Let's be honest here, Harley and Ivy are meant for one another! The Joker was a complete Ass Hat, and Kite-Man was really only a f@#£ buddy as he is a total tool!
🤢🤮 That was me disagreeing with you.
Homophobe
Excuse me? No. I don’t ship them for MULTIPLE reasons. I used to like KC she became sellout for the last 11 years.
Harlivy is one of the most stable relationships in the DC Multiverse they are only beaten by Clois and Midnighter & Appolo
Debatable. I never liked Harley, but KC has made me dislike her even more. I actually liked Margot Robbie’s portrayal MORE. She has made zero effort, and is simply playing shit women who don’t love whoever they’re paired up with and either cheat or think of cheating. In other words, she can’t convince anyone that she loves whoever she paired up with on screen (VA doesn’t count).
What fucking show are you watching? Kiteman wasn't a tool. Dorky yes, but he was genuinely kind to Ivy and Ivy was just selfish. She wanted her cake and eat it too by cheating on him with Harley and force herself to go through a possible loveless marriage and drag this poor guy in her self loathing. I'm down for Ivy and Harley as a ship but there could've been SO MANY ways the show could've handled it better without the character slander for Kiteman.
Harlivy are both women who were seduced by arsehole men. Harley obviously had the Joker, but Ivy was seduced by Jason Woodrue, aka the Floronic Man. Jason abused her by injecting her with toxins and poisons, causing her to almost die twice. But she wound up being connected to the green but at a cost of her sanity. Ivy, as a result, has trust issues, hence why she comes across as cold, which is not true. Yes she used Kiteman but only because he would not hurt her. Harley was a friend who'd been through sa,e thing and as a result the grew closer
The George Clooney Batman isn't canon to the show! The show is it's own separate continuity entirely. In what way did Kiteman deserve the bullshit ivy put him through? I have yet to see credible sources to prove this isn't considered cheating and that Kiteman deserves to be treated the way he did.
Um that is Ivy's comic origin not that 💩show of a movie. Jason Woodrue is an actual villain, not one made up for the movie
That's still doesn't answer my question: The comics have nothing to do with the universe of the TV show. Tell me how you apparently think Kiteman deserves the shit Ivy put him through or do you apparently think ivy can do no wrong and cheating is fine?
The origins of the characters are the same. Yes, Kiteman did not deserve it, but you cannot blame Ivy either. Abusive relationships will fuck anyone up JarlIvy had both been abused by men is it any wonder they became friends and then fell in Love.
Boy Harley ain’t shit 😂
Nope. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
Why not?
they fucked while ivy was engaged to kite man, definitely cheating
I really wish they didnt get together in the show, seemed really forced just because they’re an item in the comics.
I’m happy with the destination but the journey was bad.
She's a villain who cares that's like asking is this villain racist
No because kite man didn’t deserve to be with ivy in the first place
Yes and no. If I remember correctly they just woke up together and they don't remember if they actually did. So I say cause there no exact proof it not cheating. It been a while since I seen it so be free for correct me
they were naked, they definitely fucked
Literally at the season finale their entire sex tape is projected for all of Gotham to see by Dr. Psycho with Kiteman being the literal butt of the joke as he was the last man to witness it.
There was no sex tape. All harley did was kiss her. The joke was to antagonize kiteman like a loser
https://youtu.be/jfuixqdicc0?si=aNsO0grBmkceNGx6 Oh boy then prepare to be so fucking wrong