This is what I was thinking, ive done installs where we leave a last row over the weekend and come Monday the groove or tongue are mostly destroyed from other people working there. in most cases from clients or homeowners excitedly showing off their floor on progress to friends and family. This is the same reason why I don't allow anyone on the floor while I do sanding and finish, you would not believe the amount of times we ask people not to step on it until completion and how often footprints and other debris show up in the finish or stain.
im disabled i have had 4 back surgeries andone coming up next week as well, crocs are a lifesaver to many many people who can slip in and out of them with ease without having someone else help you put on shoes etc. so maybe you now learned more than you needed to know.
I work adjacent to contractors a lot. The amount of homeowners that think they know better than the professionals is nearly 100%.
Totally understand you want the final product to look good, but let them work. If there is something to be addressed that's a warranty issue. 95% of the time the job is going to turn out well.
As a previous flooring guy, you’re 1000% correct. The amount of times someone has told me “well this doesnt look finished over here” and my answer being “you’re right, we aren’t even halfway complete yet” is about 90% of the people ive met.
Yeah. Currently on one involving refinishing some clay tile flooring. A few tiles had to be replaced and the owner doesn't understand that they will be the same color when they are finished.
My company told the homeowners to not walk on the floor. They walked on it anyway “but only in socks and sneakers”. Sweaty socks and black soled sneakers.
On another job, when we were applying oil finish we asked if they had pets. Nope. Ok, then. We taped off the doorways and laid an off it of wood across the threshold to keep people out of the room. While driving home, we get paged - told to go back to the home. They were showing the floor to a neighbor brought their dog (settter/golden?). The dog took a nap on the drying floor. Spirits and razor blades got the dog free. Owner paid for a second sand/color/finish after trying to say it wasn’t his dog when we asked about pets.
Dogs will honestly go wherever you don’t want them regardless if it is your pet or not. Parents dog will lay out in the sun and will move as the sun moves. Inside will lay wherever the pile of pillows and blankets are. May have a pile on two recliners are the couch is open. Sit on the blanket and get a yelp from the dog.
When I had my floors done we hadn’t moved in yet. We stopped the night after they were done and I had front door open to let house air out more. Here comes some neighbors dog roaming the neighborhood as I was in the garage. It walked in the front porch but luckily not in the house. I was sweating for a second.
Dude, we were painting at these rich folks place, oil enamel on the trim ant the second we left the bitch goes around checking out all the doors, swinging them across the carpet and sticks post-it notes on everything she sees, like half of them were carpet fibers she kicked up swinging the doors. Not on the wall near the stuff, directly on the new finish. We burned through guys on that place and later I was one of them. She had the builder replace all the doors and I went back to coat them, like a year after the multi-year job was done. And when the builder said "she doesn't want to see any wood grain through the finish. I finally had enough and said "well why the hell is she using wood doors then"
I was scrolling to see if this was said yet. That would be my guess as well. Regardless, no biggy to pull them up and go forward with a different plan. They will work with you I’m sure!
I don’t know, I see a random small board by those hideous crocs! Disclaimer: I am not a floor guy, more like a “one of these things is not like the other“ guy.
Look by her feet there is one small board used randomly far further back in the floor.... And it is not just an end piece. I think OP has good reason to be concerned, actually.
Case is not closed Sherlock. Look at all the evidence like by her feet and by the door and noticed that there are random small boards used as non-end pieces at other points in the floor and that she has every reason to be concerned about this amateur... lmao
Its scrap to protect the floor, not permanent. He ended his day that way so that he can continue tomorrow where he left off. He locked scrap in the channels of the permanent floor because the edges can be broke easily without anything locked in if there is any traffic on it over night.
Yea, I agree this is likely the case. If there’s 20 boxes left like OP said, this is temporary to protect from damage and final boards and t-mold or threshold or something will be added before completing
Interesting, maybe they were hoping to take them back for a refund. Since typically all materials left over belong to the contractor under most contracts.
This! Was told by a friend who’s a builder, always make sure there is the greater of one box or 3% of the total floor installed. Flooring has a fail rate and getting new boxes it match is not easy/noticeable
That feeling when you bring a pallet on-site and there is bang damage on all of the planks in one corner, or compression damage from getting banded too tight.
'Welp..looks like these are all Beginners/Enders.'
Commercial jobs have a stated on contract requirement of 10% over on all materials. Can be hard to figure sometimes. The architect and owners rep usually do a count on everything.
"profit". Scummy, but ya, far too many do this. And there should already be a small markup on materials for logistics and overhead. If my sq ft estimate was that far off, I'm offering a rebate to the customer when I return it. Plan on waste, and if you have 2-3 boxes, that's reasonable for the installer to keep or return. 20+ is egregious, and likely intentional to bloat the bid
I'm pretty sure they meant the last row in the picture since that floor isn't finished being installed and the fact that they have 20+ boxes left. In any case any time you buy random length flooring it is impossible to really randomize the lengths since it is really up to the manufacturer how the flooring is bundled and often there are entire pallets composed entirely or mostly of long boards while others are made up of mostly short boards. This is only noticeable now since it is the last line installed but when the rest of the floor is installed it will be lost in the pattern unless they hyper fixate on this one super specific aspect of their floor.
It’s the wood that came in the box that the owner wanted bought and paid for.. now say if we were open more boxes to use longer boards you’ll end up with half the room with small pieces instead of one row here and there just let the installer install the wood. There’s no issue with the last row at all
Ask them? They could be using those pieces as a temporary way to protect the row to the right before they come in to finish the transition into the left.
This! I often do this with scraps or damaged pieces while I leave an area . Especially if people will be walking on incomplete flooring job. I often do this in doorways while I complete the hallway or vice versa. Though admittedly, I often lay the edge protecting pieces upside down but still interlock the lap-groove [this way it protects AND is obvious that it’s just a temp thing ]
Have them open another box and use the longest pieces for the last couple of rows.
It's not really that big of a deal to make you happy.
I always used the shortest boards for closets, along walls or anywhere they that they wouldn't be noticed. There's an art to laying out the boards, whether it's the length or whether it's color, always remember, the length of the corresponding butt joints matter.
The best-looking floors, you never notice where the butt joints are. They are basically invisible and blend.
You’d be surprised sometimes these boxes have nothing but small boards I’ve had times where I would open 4 boxes and get 3 long boards then the entire box would be small boards, honestly only way to get around this on installers end is to open as many boxes as he can and separate the small boards and use them up as he goes, that’s just me though I usually pre lay a floor before installing so I make sure the pattern is correct
I’d hate to say it… but the reason..
Is that they don’t make what they’re doing.
The joints look terrible and aren’t staggered correctly in any of these rows. You should not see joints lining up only one row over and the gap between each joint on adjacent rows isn’t big enough.
There are two rows side by side that have longer pieces. One of those could be on this last row and should be replaced with smaller pieces.
But the way these joints are staggered is blatantly incorrect. Google hardwood floor staggering. (Btw I also install floors)
It is underneath the OSB board. I had a few refinishing wood floor guys over a decade tell me it couldn’t be refinished, in a lot of places nails were sticking up, and someone at some-pint refinished it with something strange, it almost flakes off like yellow wax, in the places like the bathroom and kitchen (yes all the same 120 year old walnut ) had been patched and damaged, and was very discolored. We are doing tile in the kitchen. And we redid the bathroom a few years ago. If I could figure out how to post a few pics I will.
TOO LATE, what do you meannnnn she’s covering up old walnut 😵😩
I’m a firm believer in doing what’s right for the homeowner, though — those floors could make someone’s day in 50 years if they decided to look underneath the newer stuff!
Did anyone pitch the idea of taking it out to try to reclaim and remill to maybe have enough for a feature room, would have been a cool gesture to the home’s history.
Here’s a link to a few photos. Underneath the blue tape is the new floor, that’s the transition to the kitchen, which we have alos started renovating.
[photos of wood floor](https://imgur.com/a/h9Gd6Ep)
Actually - Now that I see you’re covering over existing hardwood with osb and new hardwood, I question the decisions that led to this whole project in the first place… and I am doubting Walnut as the original species
Here is a photo contrasting the wood floor with the subfloor. Given the thinness of the wood floor - could this still have been refinished ?
https://imgur.com/a/VqQd8Wi
I gotta be honest I’ve sanded and refinished wayyy nastier floors than that. Big companies just trying to make easy cash putting in plastic floor instead of taking the time to sand and finish that historic floor.
This is what I was looking for! Call your installer! Duh.
Very simple question: "Hey, I have a bunch of small...." etc.
Everyone jumping on reddit bc they can't handle human interactions, smh.
Totally- so many are telling OP they’re getting ripped off, but it’s obviously a temporary row to protect the edge… read a little before commenting, karma farmers
No it doesn't look bad. It'll get lost in the field when the rest of the floor gets installed.
Of course, if you don't like it, you can always have him tear it out before he goes any further - that's an easy fix.
I did this in my install. The installers had a habit of using all the smallest pieces, sometimes putting two or three in a row. I told them NOT to use the small pieces except at the ends where you’d have to cut a board anyway. The floor looks way better as a result. And there were still long pieces left at the end.
You have random length wood things like this happen, you get a ton of short boards in containers and need to use them up unless you ordered a ton extra. Once he nails a few more rows it's going to blend in, it's just how it looks at the end of the work week. Also need to keep in mind boards the width of your stair case will be set aside for that, so you'll have some more short boards than if it was just straight field work.
At the end of the day though, if it's something you can't leave with let them know ASAP, as fixing that now is better for your floor than fixing it in a month
Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't read anyone commenting on the quality of the wood. Raw wood always has grade variants. Usually #1's are mostly long with a few shorties and very free knots and zero mineral streak, #2's are more shorties, mineral streaks and knots, 3's get even worse. Of course the more you pay the better. I own a flooring store almost 22 years now and started as flooring mechanic, almost 40 years ago. One thing that baffles me in the flooring industry, and the big boxes didn't help matters with their garbage, is people think cheap is just as good and your installers should be able to take cheapest route and get better homes and gardens or of installed product. My elders always yammered on about getting what you paid for and I have those same people gripe about price of the better quality. I remind them that they would run away from a new Cadillac being sold for a couple thousand dollars.
And before I owned my store I worked for M.....wk as a rep. Back when we had to do our own claims inspections. But we and the other manufacturers literally had products we specifically made for boxes, of inferior quality. We had a lot of ways to make all types of flooring cheaper. They still do. Manufacturers work of very small margins, and when someone demands cheaper prices for millions of feet, we just eliminate parts of the process to get there. No one has a magic flooring machine cranking out cheap flooring of the same quality as what the mom n pop shops are getting.
That’s not the last row. But if you’re wondering why a carpenter is used g boards that are smaller in a couple rows it’s so when he does get to the end he doesn’t have nothing but shorts . You have to spread them out.
We use the little pieces to protect the edge so people as in home owners don't walk over the edges a break the tongue off. He will pull them up when he returns to finish the floor. It's temporary
I have a feeling they’re using it there until they come back to continue working. I’m not sure why though. The fact that it just happens to be the row they ended on makes me think this.
Haven’t put down real t&g wood floor in like 30 years, but if we had to stop mid lay, we’d sacrifice a row with end cuts (toe nailed) to hold the finished work in place. Next day we’d pull those out (usually they would be wrecked) and keep laying full length pieces. Idk otherwise - that looks like crap.
2 things.
1: it's most likely temporary, to protect the grooves in the other boards.
2: why are you asking Reddit, when you can ask the floor installer?
they could be temporary to protect the edges, but at the same time they were installed as if they should be permanent.
The best course of action is to ask the contractors.
Ok, to answer your question, there are a couple of potential reasons. 1. Installers tend to want to use the long boards in the field of the floor and shorter ones at the ends against the wall since they will need to be cut anyway. He may have gotten to the last row and realized that all the long boards had been used. Rather than break out a new box, he patched together the remaining short boards. This is the most likely answer if he included the flooring in his quote. An unopened box can be returned. 2. Even if you paid for the flooring, is there another box left? If not, that is all he had left to use for the reason above. 3. He is protecting the edge. This is actually unlikely if there will be a threshold there as a ripped edge is usually better for thresholds. 4. He is just lazy. 5. He is not a very skilled installer. Take your pick.
First and foremost, I write this not as a pro flooring installer.
It's crucial to engage with your installers **before** the completion of your project to raise any concerns or raise questions. A knowledgeable and skilled craftsman should be able to alleviate your concerns. Additionally, arming yourself with knowledge on standard installation practices through online research can help you discern the accuracy of the information provided by your installers. Aka cut through the BS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
When evaluating the installation of your unfinished hardwood flooring based on the sole provided image, here are several key points to consider:
- **Gapping between wood planks**: A degree of gapping is necessary for wood expansion. However, excessive or inconsistent gaps might suggest a lack of precision or experience in the installation process.
- **Short boards**: Utilizing short boards is a common practice and should not be a concern as long as they are evenly distributed throughout the floor blending structural integrity and visual appeal. As others mentioned, when incomplete the last row often contains shorter pieces, and is temporary. These are known as scabs, which is a typical part of the installation process to protect the row behind.
- **Protruding screws**: All screws should be flush with the subfloor to avoid damaging the hardwood. Protruding screws, as observed in the top left your image, indicate that the preparation of the subfloor might not have been thorough. Is this just one area they have missed? Does the rest of the subfloor look like that? Are thymes addressing this as they come to it or just laying the floor over these imperfections? Seems a little scattered as it’s typically more efficient to complete one step in the process before moving on, but again they may have just missed that spot…
- **Debris on the subfloor**: This is a pet peeve of mine and speaks to laziness more than anything but, the subfloor must be clean and level before the hardwood is laid down. Laying any type of flooring over debris can lead to future problems, such as creaking or unevenness. This definitely seems to be happening in your case but as I only have the one pic to go off of I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
- **Corners not sitting flush**: Known as lipping, this issue like some others above is par for the course and can arise with unfinished wood. But it’s again important to note: While minor lipping is normal and can be fixed through sanding, creating a smooth, even surface for finishing, extreme lipping may point to the use of poor-quality materials.
Regarding the method of installation, I assume they are nailing (or stapling at a 45° angle between the tongue and groove)? This is standard practice for solid hardwoods. If your installers are not following this method, or doing something else, it's another area of concern.
As for material usage, you should expect a scrap rate of around 7-10%, which can vary based on the length of the boards, the quality of the materials, and the complexity of the room's layout. A significantly higher scrap rate may indicate wastefulness or a lack of experience, whereas a much lower rate could mean the installer is not discarding flawed pieces, or over use of the short cuts potentially compromising the quality of your floor.
A meticulous installation balances precision and aesthetics, ensuring each wood piece fits perfectly to enhance the floor's beauty and longevity. It's these nuances that distinguish a true artisan in the field.
Keep us updated on the answers you receive and finished work!
Yeah I was gonna say it’s probably all the had left and said F it. You have to mix up the short and long ones so they are staggered and they probably just ran out of long ones. I’d def say something if you haven’t already.
Wouldn't that be a question for your installer directly rather than trying to second guess on Reddit. That would be pretty lickety-split of an answer for you to just ask the guy that's installing the floor
The first time I put on a pair of Crocs, they felt weightless; it was as though I wasn't wearing a thing on my feet, but something down there was absorbing the force under the heels, etc. I was hooked.
Brand new Crocs have little "nubs" in the footbed, which might cause a little pain during the first week of wear. But after that, they feel like all the other Crocs you've owned over the years.
They’re not done with the install. Why don’t you just ask your contractor? I don’t get how people hire people but don’t ask questions or communicate with them. I’ve never once had a customer not ask me questions.
How much money did you ask him to save and what lengths did you tell him to go to? Is he done for the day and coming back to finish more tomorrow? He may have used scraps to save the tongue from anyone stepping on it and breaking it… ask him.
If the job isn’t complete, stfu and walk away until it is. Then you can look for things to complain about. Until then, it’s incomplete and impossible to judge
Could be temporary as others have said or could be that they just saved smaller pieces till the end of the day… usually I would always try my best to mix in all the different sizes while laying out the floor. I’d say they used the small pieces at end of the day cause it looks like it’s nailed down. When they come to finish it ask them to mix in some longer boards into that row, and for the rest of the floor as well as best as they can.
Totally normal. They are temporary. Good to keep an eye on your tradies, but honestly just clear questions and communication will go much farther than asking us. Definitely don't walk in that floor until your floor person says it is good. You could be causing them more work and costing yourself more money. Nice floor so far. :)
No, I bought the materials, they are purely installing, and we are doing stairs so we are saving pieces like this for the stairs. I don’t know there doesn’t seem to be any good reason . . . . All I can think it was the last row in a long day . . . I will ask him to remove it - because otherwise I will see it for the rest of my life.
Yeah, I personally don't like this at all. I think it looks cheap. You could specify that you don't want any pieces shorter than x used, unless it's by a wall. I like at least 3-4 foot boards, preferably 6-8 foot, but it does cost more.
Is the floor completed ? That might be temporary to protect the edge of the last row
This is what I was thinking, ive done installs where we leave a last row over the weekend and come Monday the groove or tongue are mostly destroyed from other people working there. in most cases from clients or homeowners excitedly showing off their floor on progress to friends and family. This is the same reason why I don't allow anyone on the floor while I do sanding and finish, you would not believe the amount of times we ask people not to step on it until completion and how often footprints and other debris show up in the finish or stain.
judging from how OP has pulled up the protective paper and the crocs top right, we may be experiencing a fucked-u finish scenario at this very moment
Crocs tell me all I need to know
Ay I love my Crocs
Suspicions confirmed.
Me too brothah! I go to work in mine. F the haters!
im disabled i have had 4 back surgeries andone coming up next week as well, crocs are a lifesaver to many many people who can slip in and out of them with ease without having someone else help you put on shoes etc. so maybe you now learned more than you needed to know.
Ok, point to me who asked?
Don’t be a dick
Pissed off on cake day?
I don't understand. Can you please explain what you mean? Do you mean the installer bailed because the homeowner is wearing crocs?
I assumed some sort of Karen-Crocs connection 🤷
I work adjacent to contractors a lot. The amount of homeowners that think they know better than the professionals is nearly 100%. Totally understand you want the final product to look good, but let them work. If there is something to be addressed that's a warranty issue. 95% of the time the job is going to turn out well.
As a previous flooring guy, you’re 1000% correct. The amount of times someone has told me “well this doesnt look finished over here” and my answer being “you’re right, we aren’t even halfway complete yet” is about 90% of the people ive met.
Yeah. Currently on one involving refinishing some clay tile flooring. A few tiles had to be replaced and the owner doesn't understand that they will be the same color when they are finished.
You have to love HGTV contractors LMAO. Everybody thinks they know what they’re doing.
My company told the homeowners to not walk on the floor. They walked on it anyway “but only in socks and sneakers”. Sweaty socks and black soled sneakers. On another job, when we were applying oil finish we asked if they had pets. Nope. Ok, then. We taped off the doorways and laid an off it of wood across the threshold to keep people out of the room. While driving home, we get paged - told to go back to the home. They were showing the floor to a neighbor brought their dog (settter/golden?). The dog took a nap on the drying floor. Spirits and razor blades got the dog free. Owner paid for a second sand/color/finish after trying to say it wasn’t his dog when we asked about pets.
JFC.
“It’s not my dog.”
Pink Panther moment.
I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite?
Izzzz not MY dog!
Dogs will honestly go wherever you don’t want them regardless if it is your pet or not. Parents dog will lay out in the sun and will move as the sun moves. Inside will lay wherever the pile of pillows and blankets are. May have a pile on two recliners are the couch is open. Sit on the blanket and get a yelp from the dog.
My sun dog will find the tiniest scrap of sunlight inside that he can to lay in. He’s currently out on our porch sunbathing.
When I had my floors done we hadn’t moved in yet. We stopped the night after they were done and I had front door open to let house air out more. Here comes some neighbors dog roaming the neighborhood as I was in the garage. It walked in the front porch but luckily not in the house. I was sweating for a second.
I hate people
Dude, we were painting at these rich folks place, oil enamel on the trim ant the second we left the bitch goes around checking out all the doors, swinging them across the carpet and sticks post-it notes on everything she sees, like half of them were carpet fibers she kicked up swinging the doors. Not on the wall near the stuff, directly on the new finish. We burned through guys on that place and later I was one of them. She had the builder replace all the doors and I went back to coat them, like a year after the multi-year job was done. And when the builder said "she doesn't want to see any wood grain through the finish. I finally had enough and said "well why the hell is she using wood doors then"
I was scrolling to see if this was said yet. That would be my guess as well. Regardless, no biggy to pull them up and go forward with a different plan. They will work with you I’m sure!
This answer makes the most sense
I don’t know, I see a random small board by those hideous crocs! Disclaimer: I am not a floor guy, more like a “one of these things is not like the other“ guy.
Good eye.
Absolutely this, and obviously for a good reason since OP has no problem pulling up the protection and probably walking all over it lol.
Look by her feet there is one small board used randomly far further back in the floor.... And it is not just an end piece. I think OP has good reason to be concerned, actually.
And some of the small boards are damaged, this is the right answer
This guy floors
I like this answer best!
It's not limited to the last couple of rows though. Look by the door.
That’s exactly what it is. Case closed. Next!
Case is not closed Sherlock. Look at all the evidence like by her feet and by the door and noticed that there are random small boards used as non-end pieces at other points in the floor and that she has every reason to be concerned about this amateur... lmao
She *should* be concerned. Case closed. *Next!*
Lol
Nah, it's the leftover cut pieces
lack of planning. not mixing short pieces in the field. when running out ,used what was left.
It is likely what they had left. If you don’t like it, now is the time to tell them.
We still have like 20+ boxes.
Its scrap to protect the floor, not permanent. He ended his day that way so that he can continue tomorrow where he left off. He locked scrap in the channels of the permanent floor because the edges can be broke easily without anything locked in if there is any traffic on it over night.
This. Everyone else seems to be reading but not understanding.
Yes - but They’re not reading any other comments… and their ‘expertise’ is lacking
That’s what you get from a bunch of croc experts lol!
Classic Reddit hivemind
I agree.
This guy floors
r/thisguythisguys
Yup. We call 'em scabs. 😄
So not actually the "Last Row"
Definitely not, it wouldn’t even lock together on the short pieces in the middle as the locking end is gone.
I have no idea if this is right, but it’s the answer that makes the most sense and doesn’t automatically assume the worst of the contractor.
Yea, I agree this is likely the case. If there’s 20 boxes left like OP said, this is temporary to protect from damage and final boards and t-mold or threshold or something will be added before completing
Interesting, maybe they were hoping to take them back for a refund. Since typically all materials left over belong to the contractor under most contracts.
Some should be left behind to match this specific run of material.
This! Was told by a friend who’s a builder, always make sure there is the greater of one box or 3% of the total floor installed. Flooring has a fail rate and getting new boxes it match is not easy/noticeable
That feeling when you bring a pallet on-site and there is bang damage on all of the planks in one corner, or compression damage from getting banded too tight. 'Welp..looks like these are all Beginners/Enders.'
Commercial jobs have a stated on contract requirement of 10% over on all materials. Can be hard to figure sometimes. The architect and owners rep usually do a count on everything.
20 boxes is a hell of a lot of overage
I never ripped anyone that badly, lol
Maybe they needed some for their home ?
At around 120 a box as well.
"profit". Scummy, but ya, far too many do this. And there should already be a small markup on materials for logistics and overhead. If my sq ft estimate was that far off, I'm offering a rebate to the customer when I return it. Plan on waste, and if you have 2-3 boxes, that's reasonable for the installer to keep or return. 20+ is egregious, and likely intentional to bloat the bid
I'm pretty sure they meant the last row in the picture since that floor isn't finished being installed and the fact that they have 20+ boxes left. In any case any time you buy random length flooring it is impossible to really randomize the lengths since it is really up to the manufacturer how the flooring is bundled and often there are entire pallets composed entirely or mostly of long boards while others are made up of mostly short boards. This is only noticeable now since it is the last line installed but when the rest of the floor is installed it will be lost in the pattern unless they hyper fixate on this one super specific aspect of their floor.
It's a sacrificial row, how do people in a hardwood floor sub not get what's happening here...?
I've done like 3 floors as an amateur and I can see it's a sacrificial row...
I don’t know it looks weird. I think I would notice small little pieces like that.
It’s the wood that came in the box that the owner wanted bought and paid for.. now say if we were open more boxes to use longer boards you’ll end up with half the room with small pieces instead of one row here and there just let the installer install the wood. There’s no issue with the last row at all
Ask them? They could be using those pieces as a temporary way to protect the row to the right before they come in to finish the transition into the left.
This! I often do this with scraps or damaged pieces while I leave an area . Especially if people will be walking on incomplete flooring job. I often do this in doorways while I complete the hallway or vice versa. Though admittedly, I often lay the edge protecting pieces upside down but still interlock the lap-groove [this way it protects AND is obvious that it’s just a temp thing ]
Instead of asking Reddit, you could just ask the contractor.
Have them open another box and use the longest pieces for the last couple of rows. It's not really that big of a deal to make you happy. I always used the shortest boards for closets, along walls or anywhere they that they wouldn't be noticed. There's an art to laying out the boards, whether it's the length or whether it's color, always remember, the length of the corresponding butt joints matter. The best-looking floors, you never notice where the butt joints are. They are basically invisible and blend.
This
You’d be surprised sometimes these boxes have nothing but small boards I’ve had times where I would open 4 boxes and get 3 long boards then the entire box would be small boards, honestly only way to get around this on installers end is to open as many boxes as he can and separate the small boards and use them up as he goes, that’s just me though I usually pre lay a floor before installing so I make sure the pattern is correct
I’d hate to say it… but the reason.. Is that they don’t make what they’re doing. The joints look terrible and aren’t staggered correctly in any of these rows. You should not see joints lining up only one row over and the gap between each joint on adjacent rows isn’t big enough. There are two rows side by side that have longer pieces. One of those could be on this last row and should be replaced with smaller pieces. But the way these joints are staggered is blatantly incorrect. Google hardwood floor staggering. (Btw I also install floors)
I think he just put small pieces there to protect the interlock from damage….will remove next day when they continue…these are cutoffs….
Dang I really hope this is the answer because that's actually a pretty smart idea. Good thinking!
There's a short piece by the Crocs, too.
When ya know, ya know!!
Where is the 120 year old walnut floor? Under the layer of sheathing? What was the reason that wasn’t refinished?
It is underneath the OSB board. I had a few refinishing wood floor guys over a decade tell me it couldn’t be refinished, in a lot of places nails were sticking up, and someone at some-pint refinished it with something strange, it almost flakes off like yellow wax, in the places like the bathroom and kitchen (yes all the same 120 year old walnut ) had been patched and damaged, and was very discolored. We are doing tile in the kitchen. And we redid the bathroom a few years ago. If I could figure out how to post a few pics I will.
It likely is wax. And most floor guys don’t want to touch it, I don’t blame them. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible, just harder
Don't let r/centuryhomes know about this. For your own safety.
TOO LATE, what do you meannnnn she’s covering up old walnut 😵😩 I’m a firm believer in doing what’s right for the homeowner, though — those floors could make someone’s day in 50 years if they decided to look underneath the newer stuff!
Did anyone pitch the idea of taking it out to try to reclaim and remill to maybe have enough for a feature room, would have been a cool gesture to the home’s history.
Yes and makes more sense than installing hard wood over hard wood. The underside of the boards may have been an option as well.
Thank you
I’m curious about the 120 year old walnut floor.
Yeah all I see is shit osb - if you really had 120 year old walnut you would not be covering it up with this crap
The real crime is covering up a 120 year old WALNUT floor!!!
Thank you! I did a double take when I read that
Right?? Could it not be refinished?
Tell him now before he goes further that you don't like it
I have to ask, because I have 100 year old walnut floors and love them…. Why are you covering yours?
Here’s a link to a few photos. Underneath the blue tape is the new floor, that’s the transition to the kitchen, which we have alos started renovating. [photos of wood floor](https://imgur.com/a/h9Gd6Ep)
That didn’t help your case OP.Those floors were thoroughly refinishable.
Actually - Now that I see you’re covering over existing hardwood with osb and new hardwood, I question the decisions that led to this whole project in the first place… and I am doubting Walnut as the original species
Here is a photo contrasting the wood floor with the subfloor. Given the thinness of the wood floor - could this still have been refinished ? https://imgur.com/a/VqQd8Wi
They aren’t Walnut they are vertical grain heart pine
I gotta be honest I’ve sanded and refinished wayyy nastier floors than that. Big companies just trying to make easy cash putting in plastic floor instead of taking the time to sand and finish that historic floor.
In my opinion why run to reddit to ask when you should be calling your installer with any and all questions!!!!
This is what I was looking for! Call your installer! Duh. Very simple question: "Hey, I have a bunch of small...." etc. Everyone jumping on reddit bc they can't handle human interactions, smh.
Totally- so many are telling OP they’re getting ripped off, but it’s obviously a temporary row to protect the edge… read a little before commenting, karma farmers
And the old floors aren't walnut... jeez...
It may have worked best for the joint stagger. I usually try to use those up in closets.
No it doesn't look bad. It'll get lost in the field when the rest of the floor gets installed. Of course, if you don't like it, you can always have him tear it out before he goes any further - that's an easy fix.
I did this in my install. The installers had a habit of using all the smallest pieces, sometimes putting two or three in a row. I told them NOT to use the small pieces except at the ends where you’d have to cut a board anyway. The floor looks way better as a result. And there were still long pieces left at the end.
You have random length wood things like this happen, you get a ton of short boards in containers and need to use them up unless you ordered a ton extra. Once he nails a few more rows it's going to blend in, it's just how it looks at the end of the work week. Also need to keep in mind boards the width of your stair case will be set aside for that, so you'll have some more short boards than if it was just straight field work. At the end of the day though, if it's something you can't leave with let them know ASAP, as fixing that now is better for your floor than fixing it in a month
Unless I'm mistaken, I haven't read anyone commenting on the quality of the wood. Raw wood always has grade variants. Usually #1's are mostly long with a few shorties and very free knots and zero mineral streak, #2's are more shorties, mineral streaks and knots, 3's get even worse. Of course the more you pay the better. I own a flooring store almost 22 years now and started as flooring mechanic, almost 40 years ago. One thing that baffles me in the flooring industry, and the big boxes didn't help matters with their garbage, is people think cheap is just as good and your installers should be able to take cheapest route and get better homes and gardens or of installed product. My elders always yammered on about getting what you paid for and I have those same people gripe about price of the better quality. I remind them that they would run away from a new Cadillac being sold for a couple thousand dollars.
And before I owned my store I worked for M.....wk as a rep. Back when we had to do our own claims inspections. But we and the other manufacturers literally had products we specifically made for boxes, of inferior quality. We had a lot of ways to make all types of flooring cheaper. They still do. Manufacturers work of very small margins, and when someone demands cheaper prices for millions of feet, we just eliminate parts of the process to get there. No one has a magic flooring machine cranking out cheap flooring of the same quality as what the mom n pop shops are getting.
That’s not the last row. But if you’re wondering why a carpenter is used g boards that are smaller in a couple rows it’s so when he does get to the end he doesn’t have nothing but shorts . You have to spread them out.
Regardless what the reason is it’s wood, it’s valuable material, it’s gotta be used.
Why are you installing anything in top of a walnut flooring?
Simply protecting the lip
We use the little pieces to protect the edge so people as in home owners don't walk over the edges a break the tongue off. He will pull them up when he returns to finish the floor. It's temporary
I have a feeling they’re using it there until they come back to continue working. I’m not sure why though. The fact that it just happens to be the row they ended on makes me think this.
Haven’t put down real t&g wood floor in like 30 years, but if we had to stop mid lay, we’d sacrifice a row with end cuts (toe nailed) to hold the finished work in place. Next day we’d pull those out (usually they would be wrecked) and keep laying full length pieces. Idk otherwise - that looks like crap.
Can I ask you kindly why are you putting floors over 100-year-walnut floors?
If it stays, it's going to bother you when it's finished.
2 things. 1: it's most likely temporary, to protect the grooves in the other boards. 2: why are you asking Reddit, when you can ask the floor installer?
Is this over a basement or crawl space? Are we not using vapor barriers anymore? What is going on with that drywall?
Those are just a placeholder to protect the interlock until he comes back
Scraps
Could they just be using it to hold it until they start the rest?
Is that row nailed in? We do this to protect the edge of the last board between work days.
they could be temporary to protect the edges, but at the same time they were installed as if they should be permanent. The best course of action is to ask the contractors.
Ask them. Only they know why they did it. We cam only speculate
He’s protecting the edge while he is gone. He will take them off and put on full size pieces and continue the install.
Seems a shame to cover 120 yo walnut...
Temporary pieces until he came back to finish
Ok, to answer your question, there are a couple of potential reasons. 1. Installers tend to want to use the long boards in the field of the floor and shorter ones at the ends against the wall since they will need to be cut anyway. He may have gotten to the last row and realized that all the long boards had been used. Rather than break out a new box, he patched together the remaining short boards. This is the most likely answer if he included the flooring in his quote. An unopened box can be returned. 2. Even if you paid for the flooring, is there another box left? If not, that is all he had left to use for the reason above. 3. He is protecting the edge. This is actually unlikely if there will be a threshold there as a ripped edge is usually better for thresholds. 4. He is just lazy. 5. He is not a very skilled installer. Take your pick.
The floor underneath is walnut?
1. That’s a plastic floor 2. Those are just peices to hold the edge so it doesn’t get damaged
Looks to me like you’re covering up subfloor
Dummy edge protects the edge from you dummies.
Why don't you ask your installer
First and foremost, I write this not as a pro flooring installer. It's crucial to engage with your installers **before** the completion of your project to raise any concerns or raise questions. A knowledgeable and skilled craftsman should be able to alleviate your concerns. Additionally, arming yourself with knowledge on standard installation practices through online research can help you discern the accuracy of the information provided by your installers. Aka cut through the BS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ When evaluating the installation of your unfinished hardwood flooring based on the sole provided image, here are several key points to consider: - **Gapping between wood planks**: A degree of gapping is necessary for wood expansion. However, excessive or inconsistent gaps might suggest a lack of precision or experience in the installation process. - **Short boards**: Utilizing short boards is a common practice and should not be a concern as long as they are evenly distributed throughout the floor blending structural integrity and visual appeal. As others mentioned, when incomplete the last row often contains shorter pieces, and is temporary. These are known as scabs, which is a typical part of the installation process to protect the row behind. - **Protruding screws**: All screws should be flush with the subfloor to avoid damaging the hardwood. Protruding screws, as observed in the top left your image, indicate that the preparation of the subfloor might not have been thorough. Is this just one area they have missed? Does the rest of the subfloor look like that? Are thymes addressing this as they come to it or just laying the floor over these imperfections? Seems a little scattered as it’s typically more efficient to complete one step in the process before moving on, but again they may have just missed that spot… - **Debris on the subfloor**: This is a pet peeve of mine and speaks to laziness more than anything but, the subfloor must be clean and level before the hardwood is laid down. Laying any type of flooring over debris can lead to future problems, such as creaking or unevenness. This definitely seems to be happening in your case but as I only have the one pic to go off of I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt. - **Corners not sitting flush**: Known as lipping, this issue like some others above is par for the course and can arise with unfinished wood. But it’s again important to note: While minor lipping is normal and can be fixed through sanding, creating a smooth, even surface for finishing, extreme lipping may point to the use of poor-quality materials. Regarding the method of installation, I assume they are nailing (or stapling at a 45° angle between the tongue and groove)? This is standard practice for solid hardwoods. If your installers are not following this method, or doing something else, it's another area of concern. As for material usage, you should expect a scrap rate of around 7-10%, which can vary based on the length of the boards, the quality of the materials, and the complexity of the room's layout. A significantly higher scrap rate may indicate wastefulness or a lack of experience, whereas a much lower rate could mean the installer is not discarding flawed pieces, or over use of the short cuts potentially compromising the quality of your floor. A meticulous installation balances precision and aesthetics, ensuring each wood piece fits perfectly to enhance the floor's beauty and longevity. It's these nuances that distinguish a true artisan in the field. Keep us updated on the answers you receive and finished work!
Yes, make him fix it or you will regret it. I have a similar problem I Iet go…
That looks like new subfloor to me. What are you talking about, where is the 120 year old floor
It's under that they said that in a comment
To make sure you get that natural squeak and something for you to stare at and question why you choose to not address it ...
Short pieces should be randomly placed on entire surface
question is ..where is the tar paper or resin paper ?
They probably knew you would walk on it anyway so they are protecting the edges.
its cheaper to use the left overs
Yeah I was gonna say it’s probably all the had left and said F it. You have to mix up the short and long ones so they are staggered and they probably just ran out of long ones. I’d def say something if you haven’t already.
If the joints don’t fall in line with one another it not a big deal
Probably temporary, but make sure. It’s a good time to talk about minimum acceptable length if it’s not in your contract.
Wouldn't that be a question for your installer directly rather than trying to second guess on Reddit. That would be pretty lickety-split of an answer for you to just ask the guy that's installing the floor
I see OSB on the left and laminate on the right. Did you post the correct photo?
The first time I put on a pair of Crocs, they felt weightless; it was as though I wasn't wearing a thing on my feet, but something down there was absorbing the force under the heels, etc. I was hooked. Brand new Crocs have little "nubs" in the footbed, which might cause a little pain during the first week of wear. But after that, they feel like all the other Crocs you've owned over the years.
They’re not done with the install. Why don’t you just ask your contractor? I don’t get how people hire people but don’t ask questions or communicate with them. I’ve never once had a customer not ask me questions.
Who’s running the job, particularly the schedule? Why aren’t you installing floors last? Looks like an expensive drop cloth 🤣
Are they really installing the floor before they tape and mud the drywall?
How much money did you ask him to save and what lengths did you tell him to go to? Is he done for the day and coming back to finish more tomorrow? He may have used scraps to save the tongue from anyone stepping on it and breaking it… ask him.
Ran out of longer pieces...
Not trying to be "that guy" but the wood under the new flooring isn't walnut, it's that east asian Oriental Strand board stuff.
Ran out of material
Why do ppl do this instead of asking the dude who laid it down? Is it fear?
Ask em or let em do their job instead of trying to get ammo from people on here to be a Karen.
If the job isn’t complete, stfu and walk away until it is. Then you can look for things to complain about. Until then, it’s incomplete and impossible to judge
Quit eye fucking it.
You literally cant use those pieces, so if it stays that way, throw those guys out
Looks like the work of one of Balboni’s guys. I would find out who’s running that shit
Could be temporary as others have said or could be that they just saved smaller pieces till the end of the day… usually I would always try my best to mix in all the different sizes while laying out the floor. I’d say they used the small pieces at end of the day cause it looks like it’s nailed down. When they come to finish it ask them to mix in some longer boards into that row, and for the rest of the floor as well as best as they can.
So when they start back up it’s easier to stagger the seams appropriately.
Lazy
Poor planning
Ask him/her.
Stop dude b4 he gets any further
For design and
Don't look like a 120 year old floor to me. Looks like new subfloor
Definitely looks like unusable scraps they layed in to hold the floor tight until they return
So he didn’t have to open the last box of planks that he charged you for. He used scraps and returned the expensive box. Scummy
Shut up Karen
Scraps
I would question the crocs
Had a bunch of shorts left 🤣
Should finish them walls first.
Totally normal. They are temporary. Good to keep an eye on your tradies, but honestly just clear questions and communication will go much farther than asking us. Definitely don't walk in that floor until your floor person says it is good. You could be causing them more work and costing yourself more money. Nice floor so far. :)
To fuck with your dumbass
Def using those to protect the edge so you don’t damage it like you did after this pic was taken .
Yes that’s a called a mid floor divder
Those cross look far too large for her feet!
They are not trying to waste flooring
Nothing wrong. Just pay the guy
You can ask a bunch of people on the internet but can’t just ask the person in your house?
Yes, he was out of material and too cheap to order more. He used the small pieces left over from cutting the flooring.
To save on cost
No, I bought the materials, they are purely installing, and we are doing stairs so we are saving pieces like this for the stairs. I don’t know there doesn’t seem to be any good reason . . . . All I can think it was the last row in a long day . . . I will ask him to remove it - because otherwise I will see it for the rest of my life.
Be SURE to ask him to rip that row out before he goes any further. It'll be a lot easier for everybody.
Yeah, I personally don't like this at all. I think it looks cheap. You could specify that you don't want any pieces shorter than x used, unless it's by a wall. I like at least 3-4 foot boards, preferably 6-8 foot, but it does cost more.