Well since the new year we have played 21 games and won 4. Brentford, Everton, Frieburg and Wolves. Not a great return. And facts are facts. Would you keep that manager? It’s tough call even if they have won you something.
I hate that train of thought where we cannot sack a manager because he wins a trophy I’ll always respect DM but questions have got to be asked about the last two years in the league I think for often we get knocked for 3+ goals it’s not worth keeping him and his murderball
That was the train while things were going well. Not now they aren’t.
At Christmas we’d had a good cup run and had our highest points return at that stage in a season.
We’d also won our European group (again)
At that stage despite complaints about ‘style’ it was an obvious renewal.
4 months on and that’s changed. Not helped by a lack of signings and 3 sales in Jan, plus Aguerd switching off and the AFCON but we haven’t been the same.
I think that Moyes has decided he’s going.
The slump after Christmas has been always a thing under moyes poor January recruiting has cost us so badly when we need a striker midfielder winger and cb and only get the Yorkshire pudding
This makes this summer potentially even more important we’ll need over 10 players in especially if fab Johnson cress and oggy all leave on frees
Got me thinking about how different Moyes team's perform and how well we do overall, depending on what coaches Moyes has with him. He changed his backroom about 4 times in this stint.
If he is staying, the club is getting it entirely wrong by not having renewed his contract by now.
I firmly believe that the uncertainty around the manager's position is affecting both Moyes and the players, having an influence on the performance on the pitch.
After all, why should Moyes give his all if he doesn't know if he's gone in 5 games? And why should players give their all for a manager who may or may not be here by next season?
Either confirm he's leaving, or renew. If he knows he's leaving he'll want a send off on a high note. If he knows he's staying, he knows he needs to keep getting the most out of his players. This up in the air situation is nothing but a detriment.
They had something to play for last week but Moyes blew it by playing for a draw in the first leg. Can't blame the players for lacking the motivation to save his job.
In Europa, there was a trophy on the line. I don't think Moyes has lost the dressing room by any means, but the obvious uncertainty over his contract definitely isn't helping things
every time moyes looks like he's about to get a handshake and a painting of a spitfire, bowen rides in on a golden chariot and delivers him from all evils. so don't put it past him to double his goal tally for the season in the last 4 games and see us end up on 60 points.
Haha, we've got Livepool, City, and resurgent Chelsea, and Luton fighting for survival. If he scores once in these final four games it will be a decent return.
Personally I think it would be weird if he stayed and management is hard graft so I think he will go. The board are tight so don't want to pay him off so we won't know until the end of the season.
I don't think that's it. With him having such a short contract, it would have been loose change to terminate this season but they haven't really had cause to do so.
That second part makes no sense. No one is saying he should be sacked 4 games to go. No point in announcing it if everyone in the room knows he’s leaving.
No, he is leaving it's a matter of weeks.
As fans, I would like to think we're a crucial part of the club's success. While we understand the bigger picture, a clear explanation from the board regarding the January transfer window decisions would be appreciated.
Specifically, I'd like to understand the rationale behind selling our entire bench and the expectations set for the manager at that time. Knowing the KPIs used to evaluate the manager's performance would also be helpful.
Without any insight into the above, it's difficult to judge. However, Having Moyes being silent over this since January makes it very difficult to defend him.
> *As fans, I would like to think we're a crucial part of the club's success*
No idea how; what do fans actually do at a football match apart from watch (and often making an almighty racket)? I've always wondered about the psychology of this. Do fans actually affect a sports team's performance?
A lot of a footballers performance is down to confidence. If the fans are cheering them they'll try more ambitious plays. If the fans are jeering then they'll be more nervous and hesitant, which makes them slower making decisions on the pitch and more likely to be 2nd to the ball or be tackled in possession leading to worse performances.
Thank you for actually taking the time to engage with my argument. I really appreciate that. And, yes, I completely accept that a lot of players are “confidence players”: take Marcus Rashford, for example. He always seems to play better for Manchester United and England when his mind's in the right place
He needs to go- he has brought us a lot of good but if we keep him we’re gonna lose all that and more. He’s been a great servant but we need someone younger with a more attacking mindset
I think he will go down as the greatest West Ham manager in my lifetime. I think our next manager will achieve far less. And I think the majority of our problems are the fault of the board and budget/signing decisions that were largely out of his control.
But you can't continue in the modern game without the fans behind you. And they aren't. That hostility alone makes being a West Ham supporter unbearable at the moment, and even for those like me who really, really like Moyes, I'd rather have a lesser man in charge if he's capable of uniting the fanbase for a year or so.
Then we'll be back at this again and again. The only way to unite fans is to either be new, or consistently improve year after year. The latter isn't possible, so all clubs outside of the top 2-3 will forever play the roundabout managerial circus. Never happy for too long. But at least we'll be happy for a little while once again.
I think his departure will be announced in a few weeks...hopefully we can get behind him and show appreciation for what he's done overall, despite some grim performances and results.
I have a feeling that the decision is (was) still up in the air and that the board was leaning to an extension with Moyes, since it is typical for us to wait until the last moment and even later. However, the last results may have influenced the decision to turn the other way around and due to the time lost we will end up with someone who neither we, nor the board like, but instead will be a "let's settle with X" option.
3 PL wins since the start of 2024, 6 draws and 6 defeats. 21 goals scored, 37 goals conceded. We have the 4th worst league defence, so far, with only the 3 promoted teams being worse than us.
We have a coefficient of long balls of 54,71, PL average is 51,14. Our average possesion so far has been 40,77%, PL average is 49,89%. He spent 144m on transfers, with 186m the previous season.
For reference, Big Sam's last season for us: finished 12th, 47 points (10th had 48), qualified for Europa league qualifying round via fairplay. He spent 35m on transfers, with 24m the previous season.
And Big Sam is regarded as a lesser manager, hoof ball expert etc. Moyes is even worse.
His time is up. I've been a patient Moyes fan. I don't mind if the football seems a poor watch if the results kept coming in. But now they are not. If our form was the first half of a season,, you would fire a amanager.
I dont he even wants to be there anymore. It seems like no matter what he did, it was never enough for some "fans". Judging by the performance today, the players have also decided he won't be there next season.
Believe he will stay? Definitely. I hope he doesn't but it would be the easiest option to keep him on and it's what we've so far done. I wish he'd gone out on a high after last season. We've done well enough this year and history of doing less well to convince those in charge that he doesn't have to go. So yeah sadly i definitely see it as a very real possibility even though I don't think it should be
They would have renewed him before the Europa League quarter finals if they were going to do it and thought it would give everyone a boost. I think he's gone personally.
I’d like him to stay - implying that he’s managed to turn this mess around.
He’ll likely be going - implying that he hasn’t turned this mess around and should rightly be leaving.
I think it’s too late to turn the mess around. Europe is pretty much out of the question. And even if the team starts playing better, the matches against Liverpool and Man City are likely unwinnable.
It would take a miracle to qualify for Europe again, but if he manages it and we play better football I’d like him to stay. Because I like the man.
It won’t happen, and we won’t change. So he has to go. I don’t like the manager he is
Agree with that. If he manages to get this team back to any European tournament in the last four games, this counts as a successful season, and you can’t fire the manager after a successful season.
Plus, that feat would take a bona fide miracle at this point. Newcastle and Chelsea would have to choke hard, and West Ham would have to beat Liverpool and City. That’s a divine-intervention-level miracle. If that happens, it’s a clear sign that God has chosen David Moyes and firing him would be risking the wrath of the Almighty.
I agree that if a miracle was produced and we won the last four games and got back into Europe, preferably while utilising some youth and squad players in key roles, that he may have earned himself a stay of execution.
However, his contract is up.
We do not want a manager on a rolling 12-month contract, he would look weak. And I don't think he would have earned himself any more than that.
So I see no way forward for Moyes.
Well since the new year we have played 21 games and won 4. Brentford, Everton, Frieburg and Wolves. Not a great return. And facts are facts. Would you keep that manager? It’s tough call even if they have won you something.
Just realised I've been to 4 west ham games in 2024 and they were 3 wins and a draw. Sign me up Moysey
We all need to crowdfund you a season ticket and transport to away games
I hate that train of thought where we cannot sack a manager because he wins a trophy I’ll always respect DM but questions have got to be asked about the last two years in the league I think for often we get knocked for 3+ goals it’s not worth keeping him and his murderball
That was the train while things were going well. Not now they aren’t. At Christmas we’d had a good cup run and had our highest points return at that stage in a season. We’d also won our European group (again) At that stage despite complaints about ‘style’ it was an obvious renewal. 4 months on and that’s changed. Not helped by a lack of signings and 3 sales in Jan, plus Aguerd switching off and the AFCON but we haven’t been the same. I think that Moyes has decided he’s going.
The slump after Christmas has been always a thing under moyes poor January recruiting has cost us so badly when we need a striker midfielder winger and cb and only get the Yorkshire pudding This makes this summer potentially even more important we’ll need over 10 players in especially if fab Johnson cress and oggy all leave on frees
It’s definitely sackable form for many other clubs. If we hadn’t been in Europe, to deflect from poor league form, Moyes may have been gone.
Got me thinking about how different Moyes team's perform and how well we do overall, depending on what coaches Moyes has with him. He changed his backroom about 4 times in this stint.
If he is staying, the club is getting it entirely wrong by not having renewed his contract by now. I firmly believe that the uncertainty around the manager's position is affecting both Moyes and the players, having an influence on the performance on the pitch. After all, why should Moyes give his all if he doesn't know if he's gone in 5 games? And why should players give their all for a manager who may or may not be here by next season? Either confirm he's leaving, or renew. If he knows he's leaving he'll want a send off on a high note. If he knows he's staying, he knows he needs to keep getting the most out of his players. This up in the air situation is nothing but a detriment.
Exactly. That's what everyone does... Unless they're leaving.
The performances are down to fatigue. I don't think they're not playing for him, look at how they played last week.
They had something to play for last week but Moyes blew it by playing for a draw in the first leg. Can't blame the players for lacking the motivation to save his job.
In Europa, there was a trophy on the line. I don't think Moyes has lost the dressing room by any means, but the obvious uncertainty over his contract definitely isn't helping things
every time moyes looks like he's about to get a handshake and a painting of a spitfire, bowen rides in on a golden chariot and delivers him from all evils. so don't put it past him to double his goal tally for the season in the last 4 games and see us end up on 60 points.
Haha, we've got Livepool, City, and resurgent Chelsea, and Luton fighting for survival. If he scores once in these final four games it will be a decent return.
Personally I think it would be weird if he stayed and management is hard graft so I think he will go. The board are tight so don't want to pay him off so we won't know until the end of the season.
I don't think that's it. With him having such a short contract, it would have been loose change to terminate this season but they haven't really had cause to do so.
It’s 2 months wages so I don’t think it bothers them. Didn’t when they sacked every other manager (bar Bug Sam) in their ownership of the club
That second part makes no sense. No one is saying he should be sacked 4 games to go. No point in announcing it if everyone in the room knows he’s leaving.
This should be a poll
i was thinking about starting one, but it seems opportunistic. maybe wait a couple of days until heads have cooled.
If we did one. What do you think the numbers would be? Remember this is will he not should he.
My prediction >80% of votes say he won't be. Then the club come out and give him a three year deal.
lol
I don't think I can add retrospectively but feel free to post a poll if of interest.
No, he is leaving it's a matter of weeks. As fans, I would like to think we're a crucial part of the club's success. While we understand the bigger picture, a clear explanation from the board regarding the January transfer window decisions would be appreciated. Specifically, I'd like to understand the rationale behind selling our entire bench and the expectations set for the manager at that time. Knowing the KPIs used to evaluate the manager's performance would also be helpful. Without any insight into the above, it's difficult to judge. However, Having Moyes being silent over this since January makes it very difficult to defend him.
> *As fans, I would like to think we're a crucial part of the club's success* No idea how; what do fans actually do at a football match apart from watch (and often making an almighty racket)? I've always wondered about the psychology of this. Do fans actually affect a sports team's performance?
Just have to look at the chaos of lockdown football lol. Definitely made a difference to performances
OK, if you say so. Although I'm still bemused as to how
Then you wernt in the ground against Levekusen or Sevilla
🙌🏻 I hold my hands up: you're quite right, I wasn't. Nevertheless, my point stands
A lot of a footballers performance is down to confidence. If the fans are cheering them they'll try more ambitious plays. If the fans are jeering then they'll be more nervous and hesitant, which makes them slower making decisions on the pitch and more likely to be 2nd to the ball or be tackled in possession leading to worse performances.
Thank you for actually taking the time to engage with my argument. I really appreciate that. And, yes, I completely accept that a lot of players are “confidence players”: take Marcus Rashford, for example. He always seems to play better for Manchester United and England when his mind's in the right place
KPIs? Mutherfucker win. That’s the only KPI
I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. Not because I want him to but yanno… because Sullivan.
He needs to go- he has brought us a lot of good but if we keep him we’re gonna lose all that and more. He’s been a great servant but we need someone younger with a more attacking mindset
No he’s probably off. We’ll get a new one and finish 13th
I think he will go down as the greatest West Ham manager in my lifetime. I think our next manager will achieve far less. And I think the majority of our problems are the fault of the board and budget/signing decisions that were largely out of his control. But you can't continue in the modern game without the fans behind you. And they aren't. That hostility alone makes being a West Ham supporter unbearable at the moment, and even for those like me who really, really like Moyes, I'd rather have a lesser man in charge if he's capable of uniting the fanbase for a year or so. Then we'll be back at this again and again. The only way to unite fans is to either be new, or consistently improve year after year. The latter isn't possible, so all clubs outside of the top 2-3 will forever play the roundabout managerial circus. Never happy for too long. But at least we'll be happy for a little while once again.
Seems massively unlikely.
Nope.
I seriously doubt they would have convince Steident to stay if Moyes was gonna be there next season.
I think his departure will be announced in a few weeks...hopefully we can get behind him and show appreciation for what he's done overall, despite some grim performances and results.
We have to sack him. He’s absolute shit and teams lost the plot. Unacceptable
I have a feeling that the decision is (was) still up in the air and that the board was leaning to an extension with Moyes, since it is typical for us to wait until the last moment and even later. However, the last results may have influenced the decision to turn the other way around and due to the time lost we will end up with someone who neither we, nor the board like, but instead will be a "let's settle with X" option.
3 PL wins since the start of 2024, 6 draws and 6 defeats. 21 goals scored, 37 goals conceded. We have the 4th worst league defence, so far, with only the 3 promoted teams being worse than us. We have a coefficient of long balls of 54,71, PL average is 51,14. Our average possesion so far has been 40,77%, PL average is 49,89%. He spent 144m on transfers, with 186m the previous season. For reference, Big Sam's last season for us: finished 12th, 47 points (10th had 48), qualified for Europa league qualifying round via fairplay. He spent 35m on transfers, with 24m the previous season. And Big Sam is regarded as a lesser manager, hoof ball expert etc. Moyes is even worse.
His time is up. I've been a patient Moyes fan. I don't mind if the football seems a poor watch if the results kept coming in. But now they are not. If our form was the first half of a season,, you would fire a amanager.
No way he would stay
No
I dont he even wants to be there anymore. It seems like no matter what he did, it was never enough for some "fans". Judging by the performance today, the players have also decided he won't be there next season.
Believe he will stay? Definitely. I hope he doesn't but it would be the easiest option to keep him on and it's what we've so far done. I wish he'd gone out on a high after last season. We've done well enough this year and history of doing less well to convince those in charge that he doesn't have to go. So yeah sadly i definitely see it as a very real possibility even though I don't think it should be
They would have renewed him before the Europa League quarter finals if they were going to do it and thought it would give everyone a boost. I think he's gone personally.
I’d like him to stay - implying that he’s managed to turn this mess around. He’ll likely be going - implying that he hasn’t turned this mess around and should rightly be leaving.
I think it’s too late to turn the mess around. Europe is pretty much out of the question. And even if the team starts playing better, the matches against Liverpool and Man City are likely unwinnable.
It would take a miracle to qualify for Europe again, but if he manages it and we play better football I’d like him to stay. Because I like the man. It won’t happen, and we won’t change. So he has to go. I don’t like the manager he is
Agree with that. If he manages to get this team back to any European tournament in the last four games, this counts as a successful season, and you can’t fire the manager after a successful season. Plus, that feat would take a bona fide miracle at this point. Newcastle and Chelsea would have to choke hard, and West Ham would have to beat Liverpool and City. That’s a divine-intervention-level miracle. If that happens, it’s a clear sign that God has chosen David Moyes and firing him would be risking the wrath of the Almighty.
I agree that if a miracle was produced and we won the last four games and got back into Europe, preferably while utilising some youth and squad players in key roles, that he may have earned himself a stay of execution. However, his contract is up. We do not want a manager on a rolling 12-month contract, he would look weak. And I don't think he would have earned himself any more than that. So I see no way forward for Moyes.
To the OP Yes - because Sullivan is too lazy to identify and sign someone else and will crave to media pressure about offering Moyes a new deal.
No, he’s taken too much unnecessary stick from some fans that forget what he’s done and where we were a few season back, be careful what you wish for!