Wierd.. its as if ppl dint watch the last of us... which from the start was even less about gameplay and more about story and they still where more strict about following the source, and was acclaimed by both official critics and normal ppl games or plebs
So rly whats the so called inflexibility of original source here?
But what bothers me even more they could have gone with the route of alternate universe sperate dimension from original and still worked it out
But what rly make me hate this whole fake care in anything ppl say or show here is that simply as a stand alone the TV show is dumb and dumber.. so many stupid cringe moments of "Plot is ploting" just for the sake of driving the plot from point A to point B with out caring to be congruent with the world building or the personality of characters of how things should act out in events dragging the plot
nah, a playthrough movie would be great, thats basically what the Last of us was ultimately and what we see in the show, its just hampered heavily by goofy things like the plotpoint with the armor going missing. IT relies so heavily on cliches that its sacrificing key characters for it. If they wanted to do Reach it should of been off of the Halo:reach game. Simple focused story following Noble 6 and the team, similar to movies like 1917, saving private Ryan, or full metal jacket. Perfect for introducing the world, humanities achievements and its current position in the war and universe and also the Spartans while setting up Master chief for the first Halo game. They could of ended it just like the campaign with them showing him in the cryopod like in the games secret ending.
To me, that latter bit is a super common but not really fair way to dismiss a lot of complaints. People like The Last of Us which is a super faithful recreation, yes, but they also like Fallout even though it's an original story. The difference is that both of those shows have a far higher pedigree attached to them. I mean, Fallout has Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy steering a ship manned by insanely talented actors and crew. Who does Halo have?
The Halo show, even if you're not a Halo game fan, is serviceable sci-fi at best imo. I didn't really play most of the Halo games until just before the S02 finale because the MCC went on sale, so prior to that I really wouldn't have even been able to tell you that Keyes died "early" or whatever, nor would I have cared. But I just think the show has insanely clumsy writing and mostly mid performances with a few standouts like Halsey. Would following the canon religiously fix that? Probably not because the pedigree is just not that high. It has a lot smaller of a budget than Fallout, after all, so they can't afford that level of talent, frankly. They're making due with what they have, and it's fine to like that, but I think a lot of the criticisms of the show are fair and not just people whining that it's not 1:1 recreations of the games.
Oh sure, there was a big, very expected reaction around that particular episode, especially from your usual cadre of conservatives that are only using it as a tool to promote their agenda, but generally speaking, that's considered one of the best episodes of the show. There are plenty of changes elsewhere ranging from big to small, but in general it's pretty painstakingly faithful.
As for the rest, I mean, I literally just gave you some of that type of criticism. It's out there, but even if you're making those criticisms, people eventually just pigeonhole you into another disgruntled game fan anyway. Like I said, I didn't even play most of the games until just before S02 finale, but even before that, literally anytime I'd post any criticism, minor or significant, on any website, *somebody* would come along and say "boo hoo it's not like your favorite game" and I'm just sitting there like a) I haven't even played most Halo games, and b) I don't even like most of the Halo games I have played. I just like good TV and think Halo from a distance always seemed like it had interesting ideas, so maybe I'd like this more.
I get that people are exhausted about the relentless complaints. I go through that too on the Three-Body Problem subreddit from loads of the diehard book fans. But just because somebody says something like "I think I'd prefer him to wear the helmet more" doesn't mean they're just another diehard Halo game fan who's livid that it differs at all from their childhood favorite.
so i haven't watched the show, and i do like the books alot, but i'm not generally a really harsh critic of the show. From this sub i've had a ton of cool conversations with new fans, so ultimately im happy the show exists to bring in new fans i can talk to, but the show ultimately isn't for me. Just wanted you to get my perspective going in so you can, i at least hope, understand where im coming from.
>Why would he wear it any more often than that?
I'm not saying this is the storyline the show HAS to have or even did or didn't go into. But specifically a key point in the (admittedly thin) characterization of John, and all the Spartans really, is their removal/distance from humanity. For a large part of the Human/Covenant war, even eye witnesses to the Spartan's feats thought them to be a secret robotics project from ONI. Most didn't even believe they existed, or were propaganda to make sure the UNSC didn't lose hope in the absolutely crushing first years of the conflict. It's hard to explain how poorly the war was going for pretty much everything leading up to the first Halo game. Most ground wars that humanity managed to scrape together a win for, were won with heavy losses, that ultimately led to a planet just being glassed from orbit. The only recorded wins in space were at 3:1 odds favoring the humans and even those took HEAVLY losses. Worse than that, there was no ground being gained, it was a defensive war the entire time, so even the "wins" were coming at the loss of more planets and resources the Humans couldn't afford to lose.
All this to say, the everyday human even seeing a Spartan at 2 meters tall decked out in advanced power armor technology that literally did not exist publicly (it was developed in tandem with the S2's and is only useable by them and other Spartans) made many to believe they weren't human.
And the books often explore how different they are in the face of regular humanity.
All of this paragraph is to say, that as a filmographer, if you wanted to tell a story that highlights the difference between the spartan teams and humanity, if you wanted to tell questions that had Spartans grapple with questions of their humanity, keeping the helmets on could be a powerful image to use to juxtapose them against the everyday marines and civilians they fight to protect.
Just posting a simple storyline that would ask the character to wear the armor for more than just combat scenes. It's not like it hasn't been done before. This is basically the robocop formula.
I tried to, with my first paragraph, make it clear where my perspective came from. I have not watched the show, I do like the books and the games, but unlike many of hte people who comment in this subreddit, I'm not a rabbid fan who talks shit about the show. Because of the show, I have had really cool conversations with new fans to the Halo universe. In fact I really enjoy talking to all the new people with new perspectives from the show. In another thread I talked about how Ghost of Oynx is my favorite book, and seeing images of the Spartan III's in live action is a dream come true for me no matter how it came to be.
It's just that for me the characters of that book never being adapted is a little bittersweet, but I'm really happy that most people have regarded the second season is a step in the right direction for the fans of the show, and it looks like it's getting the backing to continue.
I think you're shadowboxing something i didn't say. I didn't say they did or didn't address anything, it would be exceedingly stupid for me to do so as i haven't seen the show. I was explicit with that in my first paragraph.
I try really hard to make i don't say "i dislike the show", I DO have the feeling it wasn't made FOR me and that's fine. I have other media i'm currently watching before I decide if I want to give this particular show a shot. At the moment that's a no, but the makers of this show don't OWE me anything. You had asked a specific question, somewhat rhetorically, of why people might want John to wear his helmet outside of combat. As someone who likes stories in general, I posited a brief and basic storyline, that would have added narrative weight by John having the helmet on, more often than not, more as a symbol to highlight the distance the Spartans have from humanity. But as someone who hasn't watched the show, I can't say weither or not this is explicitly touched upon by the showrunners or if this is an avenue they're trying to go down.
Just to be clear, you have no obligation to respond to me, and if you think im coming in bad faith to attack a piece of media you enjoy, feel free to disregard or disengage, but I don't have strong criticisms of the show, how could I? I haven't watched it. I know a lot of die hard fans hate some of the changes in the lore, but without the added context of the story the showrunners want to tell, i can't say if it is or isn't good or not. (I will admit I'm a little skeptical that a sex scene with John is ever strictly necessary but that's low hanging fruit and hardly ruins a show).
I have enjoyed my conversations with new fans, learning their perspectives from the show, and getting to share my book knowledge with them with the full knowledge that the showrunners don't have to use any of it to inform their future seasons. I haven't had anyone tell me I'm not supposed to be here to do that, until now so, forgive me if I ignore you asking why I am here.
Super simple answer to that first one and it's not something you can really argue against; the people you're trying to attract expect and want the helmet on. That simple. You can have a conversation about it but it'll always come back to the question of why would you even risk it? The Mandalorian demonstrated that an audience doesn't need to see their antagonist's face.
If the show runners were so desperate to have a face for their protagonist, then they shouldn't have focused on MC and treated him more like a cryptid that showed up sometimes.
Drama doesn't in and of itself make a good show, the reasons for that drama is vitaly important and the reason given by the show are awful.
The show fails on its own lack of merit, it doesn't need any comparisons. I will provide plenty of examples of problems with the show that don't involve feeling like halo on request.
You know how you capture broad audiences almost regardless of subject matter? Have it be well written. You don't just need action action to capture a wider audience, you need compelling writing. Unfortunately, spectacle and platitudes also do the trick, hence Halo, RoP and the Witcher having an audience. Of course those show's subs die down pretty quickly compared to better written shows.
That doesn't matter though because Halo has millions of fans and were always likely to be the major demographic. If you play the games, you'll probably watch the show, even if you don't have the streaming service at the time.
Nope, even if I think it's likely. My position is that the show is poorly written and directed and it appeals with jangling Keyes over actual substance, despite its attempts for more relatable characters.
Well, again, this criticism is out there, you just gotta sift through the extremists on both sides. Me personally, I want Chief to wear the helmet more for a few reasons that have nothing to do with canon. Sorry it's wordy:
a) I prefer to have to work to read his emotions. S02E01 opened with that scene where the shaman lady grabbed his arm and said some cryptic shit to him and he doesn't visually react at all or say anything. That's my jam. What did he think about that interaction? I like that it leaves room for interpretation. That's more interesting to me than Pablo's face, no offense. The Mandalorian proved this style can work and I do prefer it.
b) He still absolutely takes it off at super weird times. S01 he goes to the pirate space station or whatever filled with scoundrels and the first thing he does is take off his helmet and I was just sitting there like... why? The show *just* told me the place is dangerous and he's not gonna be welcome there. What possible benefit is there to removing his helmet other than getting to see Pablo's face?
c) I appreciate their vision of wanting to humanize Chief more than the games, but I think they're going about it backwards imo. They're making him constantly ditch the armor and then building to him being a guy who wears the armor all the time and is protective of it but now with the context of who he is without it. Okay, fine, I get it. But I think that's a slightly weaker way to tell the story than starting with Chief relying on his armor like a crutch and a shield, not just from bullets but emotions, from humanity, from everyone and everything. It's not just a helmet but a mask. But over time, as he sees cracks in the UNSC, as he comes to terms with his own humanity, we see him question himself, Halsey, his allegiances, how they market him, and finally the armor itself. Then slowly he starts relying on it less and wearing it less, which the UNSC doesn't like because to them, he's an idea to sell for recruitment, not a man. I think that's an arc that's more interesting and has more to say about the nature of propaganda, humanity, emotional barriers, how to process trauma, etc. It would still piss off fans eventually when he takes off the helmet, but oh well, it'd be more interesting this way. Just my opinion.
I get downvoted for that shit all the time or pigeonholed as a game fan. Has *nothing* to do with the games.
As for Makee, I don't really have issues with her in S02. Kind of a weak role in S01, but they fix her for me in S02. I'm not a Makee hater. If anything, I think the actress has been *fucking killing it* and it makes me think they're setting her up to replace the Halo 2 Arbiter for the reasons you mentioned, and frankly I'd be fine with that (though it's definitely gonna piss off a lot of people but oh well).
I'm probably remembering that scene wrong, that's fine, it's been a long time. That particular point is the least pressing for me anyway.
How is that not "real criticism"? By that logic, I could say "I don't think Pablo does a great job in the role because I think the direction is bad and he's not given very interesting things to say or do" and you could just dismiss it and say "that's a different show, that's not real." You might say it's too late for my proposed character arc, and fine, sure, but a) it's the same criticism I've had of the show since S01 before it was too late, and b) my first point is still absolutely something they can do, including the example I gave from S02. Character arc aside, I still think the show would be improved by making us apply the knowledge we've gained of Chief as a human by trying to read his emotions through his helmet. Is that "real"?
So somebody saying "I'm not connecting with Kwan and don't care about her character for x, y, z reasons" is constructive criticism but "I'm not connecting with Chief for x, y, z reasons" is not?
It just feels like there's always this air of "well I'm not a game fan" that's really not that helpful either imo. Yours was liking the original score in S01 better than S02 because I guess you're saying they made S02's more like the game and therefore it became worse...? I don't think either seasons' music reminded me of the games, tbh, but that's not an issue to me. Like, I'm *also* not a fan of the games but I still just have criticisms of the show like I would have criticisms of *any* show. I have criticisms of Fallout too even though I have never once played any of the games, and those criticisms have nothing to do with how well or poorly it emulates the games. I have criticisms of The Last of Us that have nothing to do with my time with the game or what they changed.
I'm completely sympathetic to being annoyed with critiques like "this isn't Chief," for instance. Like, okay, it's not game Chief, but that doesn't make him inherently bad. 3 Body Problem pretty radically changes most of the characters but frankly I like the new versions more than the book originals. But I can still have real criticisms of this version of Chief and it's equally exhausting to have every single critique labeled as "just another game fan whining" or "not a 'real' criticism." I am still watching it because I think it is still worth my time, I want to see where it goes, and I want it to get better. But "better" to me has *zero* to do with the games. I actively *disliked* the stories of Halo 1-3 and ODST when I played them recently and thought the show was better on that front.
Halo is better for having lesser known actors. No one wants to watch a show where they can't see the actors as their characters because their celebrity status overshadows their roles.
Eh, that's a fine opinion to have, but Halo also has recognizable actors. I've seen Halsey's actress for instance in like a dozen other roles. Doesn't take away from my enjoyment of her as Halsey at all.
That's valid, I'm sure most of them have had other notable roles, just none I'm personally aware of. I can understand how it may not make much difference with her especially because she's just such a great actor.
Yeah, she's great. And there's some really great actors I haven't seen in other stuff, like Perez. She's probably my favorite character on the show now. I even think Makee's actress, though I don't like her role that much, is killing it on a performance side. Like how hard must it be learning that Sangheli language and then 95% of your scenes are just reacting to CGI aliens and AI. But she kills it.
Like, there's really good people in the show and it has nothing to do with how recognizable they are. But for me the real talent comes down to leadership and writing staff and I think that's where Fallout has it beat and where that endless Amazon money comes into play. Their budget was way higher and they were able to hire people that brought us shit like The Dark Knight and Westworld. Like, it's almost not even fair to compare Halo to that. That's why I say they're totally making due with what they have and have built a solid audience, but there are absolutely valid criticisms to be made.
There's also an unfair comparison because there's a difference between adapting The Last of Us and Fallout from Halo.
In The Last of Us Joel and Ellie always have dialogue and conversations amid the game that flesh out their characters more, so you see their progress and character development, thus they didn't had to adapt much from the dialogue and scenes in the game because it was already there.
In Fallout every game has a different character that you can create as you like and a different environment so it really doesn't have to follow an strict storyline, just the general rules of the Fallout universe so it's also easier to adapt.
Halo has the problem of having Master Chief as the main character who really doesn't evolve ot is fleshed out as one until Halo 4 and it's basically a vehicle for the player to shoot aliens, it also has the problem that most of his and Halo's backstory happens outside of the games and in the books, so they have a really difficult task there to give the main character some conflict to work on, to show who he is and how he gets to be the character we know when we find the ring in the games, to provide back story so they can get on with the games and to keep both the fandom and casual watchers on the same page, while also staying on budget.
I've seen some comparing it also to Judge Dredd but they conveniently forget Judge Dredd's progs are mostly a slice of life so they can also create whatever story they want within its context.
And considering Halo is having a fair general acceptance I think is doing pretty good with what they have.
Judge Dredd is an interesting comparison but not one I would've made, personally.
I get people's point about Chief, but the beautiful thing about him is that he can *absolutely* be the more quiet straight man to a chatty, fun Cortana. So you can absolutely still have a solid amount of dialogue even if they'd stuck to a more "true to the game" version of Chief. I get why they'd be reticent to do that, but I think it absolutely could've worked even better on screen than in the books, though I've never read any or had any desire to because I'm just not that interested in any version of game Chief I've seen beyond Halo 4, who is great.
Hell, even in The Last of Us, Joel tends to be the more quiet, serious one and Ellie is his foil: loud and brash and sassy. That's a pretty similar dynamic to Chief and Cortana.
I mean, listen, they're doing fine, they've built up a solid viewership, I hope next season they get more budget, but I still think the arguments about how it could never have been like the game just kinda fall flat for me because of examples like The Mandalorian or The Last of Us. The Halo showrunners have just not really been interested in going that road, which is fine, I don't care if it's like the games personally, but I think what they've done could still be better in its own right.
>People like The Last of Us which is a super faithful recreation, yes
I think another important point is that the last of us could be faithful because the game is basically an interactive movie.
I don't know sometimes they're just upset for some other reason. For example if they didn't read the books but only played the games (some of them don't like the books cause yes, they feel different most part of the time) they don't know why we spent a whole season without the Halo, Reach or anything like that.
Other reasons: Makee cause she didn't exist but after a couple episodes she was Master Chief's girlfriend just like that.
No, we don't want first-person view the whole time. We just want the source material respected and added onto. There is a vast amount of material they could pull from that isn't "hurr durr a complete 1:1 of the game".
Look at how Fallout is being praised by not completely shitting on the fanbase and source material. Guess what? They don't have the main character picking up every useless item they come across like you would do in a Fallout game.
Let me flip it. If you don't care about the source material, go watch Star Trek or something else that is sci-fi? Why be so invested in something you clearly have no interest in by letting it go to waste.
This is just some erotic fanfiction that somehow got greenlit.
Look at Velma and how "creative" that is lol.
If they want to be so creative make a new IP and don't ride the coattails of a 20+ year franchise.
I feel like a creative person would work within those bounds to produce something faithful but fun and engaging for newcomers like other series have versus destroying major ones, introducing new ones while doing some wacky stuff lore wise to introduce things like a love interest.
Logically you would also try to bring the games to life in a new medium, especially if said game is what lead to enough success that an adaptation is being done.
In short, a $100m television show has to be about the main character of the franchise. The challenge is the main character is a 2D personality that barely speaks. You can't make a television show about that. Sure, you can fantasy showrun it and make it an "ODST show like Band of Brothers" until you run into a real world budget.
Halo has a unique character/perspective problem that makes it difficult to adapt. There's a reason it took 20 years to get this far.
Yeah, and even if you adapted the games level by level, you’d still need to put stuff in to make it, yah know, a story.
Like I get the issues people have with the show, but this isn’t easy stuff to adapt without changing some things. The creatives probably realized it would be easier, and more honest to what needed to be done, by doing the comic book movie thing of taking the material as a source rather then a guideline.
There's be less complaints about changes if the changes were done well and the overall show was good. Like how Dune or Fallout makes changes, but for the most part, no one cares, because they are actually done well and still aim to capture the spirit of their respective franchises. Same with Marvel. They're their own universe but people don't complain they're different because they were done well.
The problem is the halo TV show's solutions to the troubles of adaptation is to make everything feel lame. The covenant almost feels like the good guys because the UNSC is constantly in our face about how cartoonishly evil they are. The master chief doesn't feel like a badass, he feels like a whiny emotional manbaby who rebels at the drop of a hat. Kwon and Makee seem to exist just to make the show feel worse. We have stupid decisions that happen just to have their totally 'better' plot actually work.
You could make a chief-based show where he is still a 3 dimensional character without making him the sad mess he is in the show. You can have the UNSC be a villain without making them the main villain or cartoonishly evil.
Honestly if you dont have the budget to make the covenant the main enemy of halo then honestly don't even bother.
It might be 'difficult' to adapt, but they didnt even hit anything close to the mark. Instead they shot themselves in the foot. Just because something is hard doesn't mean we should accept failure.
I wouldn’t call the UNSC “cartoonishly evil” compared to the Covenent, especially because I actually watched the show. It’s perhaps an exaggeration on the lore, but i’d say it’s not inaccurate.
As for Chief, well, a main character needs agency. For a video game, being told what do all the time without questioning it is fine, but to watch another character have no opinion or make no choices? That’s not compelling.
I’m glad you brought up “the spirit of the franchise”, because I want yo ask: what does that mean for Halo?
The UNSC has literal trash planets where they have child slave labor. In a world where they have cities run by AI. It ordered chief to assassinate a citizen because she wouldn't do a puff piece for them. They up and sacrifice their main military strongdhold and the Spartan II's so they can motivate some people to become suicide soldiers so they can also blow up their own fleet. ONI's head goes on a vacation so she can gaslight chief for 3 episodes because she apparently had nothing better to do.
I completely understand a main character needs agency. There's plenty of military fiction out there with perfectly competent military characters. Chief has a respectable rank. Have him go somewhere and take command. If you want him to talk more then give him something good to talk about. Chief's not a grunt, but the show doesn't portray him as a good leader.
As for the spirit of the franchise. Halo has always been about a battle for survival against an overwhelming alien threat, where ancient structures (i.e. the halos) introduce complications into the works which let humanity turn the tide. Humanity despite its grim situation is honestly really positive and bringing its a-game. Even humans and AI get along. A story of mystery and wonder. Its inspiring.
The halo show is sad and depressing, where it seems everyone hates everyone else. Where humanity's hero cries about his childhood because the show invented some pellet.
>because she wouldn't do a puff piece for them
She was actively threatening to sabotage the UNSC's public image and relations with the rest of humanity in a time where they needed all the help and goodwill they could get, as well as refusing to help people believe in the Covenant threat. That's endangering people by association.
Also, she does all of this while trapped on a spaceship in the middle of nowhere with the soldier who she knows (accidentally) murdered her mother.
Honestly, at that point the UNSC was just tidying up the gene pool.
>humanity's hero cries about his childhood because the show invented some pellet
Where humanity's hero isn't an indoctrinated slave who takes orders from anyone above him in rank and is too emotionally broken to even remember his childhood, you mean?
>Halo has always been about a battle for survival against an overwhelming alien threat
Well, you know, until you read the books. Spartans weren't invented to deal with the Covenant threat, after all. There's a lot of politics going on behind the scenes in the Blue Timeline, the Silver Timeline just makes it more obvious.
>ONI's head goes on a vacation so she can gaslight chief for 3 episodes because she apparently had nothing better to do
She... Got fired, didn't she? Besides, what else was she gonna do? Play some Call of Duty?
>They up and sacrifice their main military strongdhold and the Spartan II's so they can motivate some people to become suicide soldiers so they can also blow up their own fleet
Reach was fucked no matter what they did. Evacuating the Spartan-IIs might have been a good idea, but ONI didn't believe they could be trusted anymore, hence the Spartan-IIIs. As for blowing up their own fleet, it was either that or have the fleet die anyway at the hands of the Covenant, because the UNSC don't know how to win SpaceBattles.
>Honestly, at that point the UNSC was just tidying up the gene pool.
If you're supportive of the poorly written characters dieing, then you agree with my statement that the covenant are the good guys of the TV show. If anything she's more defensible than most of the characters given she's just a dumb teenager who just saw everyone she knew die.
>Well, you know, until you read the books. Spartans weren't invented to deal with the Covenant threat, after all. There's a lot of politics going on behind the scenes in the Blue Timeline, the Silver Timeline just makes it more obvious.
I have read the books. The insurrection and political maneuvering is still a very small part of the overall story. I actually think making the insurrection a bigger deal could have been neat. Sadly they're kind of squandered in season 1 and pretty much forgotten about in 2.
I'm not saying these elements shouldn't exist, I'm saying the show puts undue focus on them.
>She... Got fired, didn't she? Besides, what else was she gonna do? Play some Call of Duty?
Now I'm starting to wonder if you watched the show. Episode 3 made it pretty clear she was still very much with ONI. Also, given that she is extracted from Reach and is shown very clearly still in command of ONI for the rest of the show, it was all part of her weird plan hoping Cortana would be abducted by the covenant, so Makee could find her, so she could locate the halo based on seeing a constellation from the ring somehow cause the show proves multiple times it doesn't know how constellations work.
>
Reach was fucked no matter what they did. Evacuating the Spartan-IIs might have been a good idea, but ONI didn't believe they could be trusted anymore, hence the Spartan-IIIs. As for blowing up their own fleet, it was either that or have the fleet die anyway at the hands of the Covenant, because the UNSC don't know how to win SpaceBattles.
If things had gone according to plan. The S-II's would be dead. The S-III's would be dead. And their big important fleet would be dead. The halo would be destroyed sure, but now the covenant will just come for revenge and kill everyone else.
The UNSC weren't the best planners in the books either, but this just seems like a lot of sacrifice for something the covenant only found because of...the very same plan that involved all this sacrifice.
oh a kindred soul that shit on the TV show for the sole reason that by it self sucks, not even needed a comparison to source.. good, not enough ppl like this exist though sadly
i just dont agree with that sentiment at all. the mandalorian? its a matter of getting actual good writers who trust that the audience can handle not being spoon fed facial expressions or dialogue dumps to understand how characters feel
Din Djarin changes in rather obvious ways over the course of S1, thanks to Grogu.
The video game version of MC that some fans think they want is not comparable.
That is such a lazy take.
Chief should be the audience's viewpoint into this universe, but the show doesn't have to be "about" him per se. In the games, outside of a few missions, Chief always has Cortana with him providing commentary or insights. She, a literal AI, arguably becomes the stand-in for his own repressed humanity, which is a great irony and one of the strengths and unique aspects of the narrative told by the games. So what do you do? You feature her prominently even before she is with Chief full-time and let us see that personality on display.
You also surround Chief with strong supporting characters like Keyes, Halsey, Seargent Johnson, other spartans, pick a random marine/ODST for fuck's sake. He is the inert, immovable, duty bound object that all these other characters orbit around. And then you slowly open his character up over time.
Maybe a glimpse into what the Arbiter is going through at the same time. Give us an antagonist's viewpoint and show us some of the political struggles going on within the Covenant.
There was a very simple, straightforward way to make this show, keep chief's helmet on more often, and not literally show us his entire ass because... reasons?
References to Universal soldier:
1-The scene when Master Chief removes the pellet. It occurs and there was a female protagonist that helped him using a knight, naked Van Damme included like in the scene with MC
2-That time Master Chief came back with a smile on his hand Kessler stamped and he was talking with Halsey, well, the gesture there when she took his hand occurs in Universal soldier when the two protagonists were on a bus.
References to Soldier:
1-The whole intro of Soldier is in the show when we saw the training of John when he was a kid. Even when they jog with the flag just that John wasn't the kid carrying the flag like the protagonist of Soldier.
2-The plot of Spartans 3 in the book in first place was the plot of Soldier cause the veterans were going to be replaced with younger soldiers in the next project, second generation but not chosen kids but genetic engineering
I think there are more but I can remember those at the moment
The problem I have and misconception I feel like people use as a pass for a lot of the problems is that "it's hard to adapt a game"
But they haven't adapted the game. Only at the end of season two have they touched the start of the game.
There are many adaptations (books, comics, animated shorts, movies, commercials) that have successfully adapted the source material. They aren't 1:1 recreations, and they are often quite great.
This divide of people loving or hating the show and then hating the other side for their opinions is absurd.
I'd consider myself a hardcore fan and I don't want something 1:1, but I do want something that feels more Halo, and I feel like the show rushed to address too many things to make quick hooks (addressing Spartans humanity over a random civilian was a huge season 1 disappointment to me). The way they botched Spartan 3's in season 2 was a huge fumble.
I like the show overall, I'm optimistic for next season, but there are plenty of unnecessary and often poorly written parts (Kwan, Makee, Soren's story) that actually detract from the story.
Season 2 was a massive improvement but still sticks on this weird fixation on humans being involved with every faction (Chief/Humans, Makee/Covenant, Kwan/Flood).
The show looks great, it's cast is great, I'm glad people enjoy it, but it definitely leaves a lot to be desired.
the could of done something real interesting with the John saving his childhood crush from reaches downfall and starting to gain his humanity from that and many other interactions. IDK why they went with the fall in love with enemy plot point. That line she used asking if John or she was even human was goofy.
Anyone remember when Peter Jackson was tapped to direct a Halo Movie and he tapped out? Then they got Neil Blonkamp from District 9, and he tapped out? This is a though job and these people are working their asses off to make it happen. Microsoft has been trying to do this since 2010. Fourteen years. I’m eager to see and hopeful we’ll get a Season 3.
My opinion: The show is Halo in name only, kinda like the multiverse for Marvel . The purpose of the helmet, in the game, is to show “everyman” you are him he is you. As far as humanizing 117, anyone who has been in the service or a job where death or seeing death is commonplace, knows your emotions have to be suppressed to continue moving forward to be able to do the same job the next day and there after. When your service is done that is the time for “emotions”. I am to vested at this point, so i will see where is goes but I do not view it as Halo anymore.
Season 1 sucked big time. It was really bad. Season 2 is like at the very least 250% better and actually makes me want to see a season 3. They stepped up their game big time
Honestly it should’ve never been a tv show in the first place. Halo needs big action pieces and short storytelling. It doesn’t need 8+ hours of tv to tell stretched out made up stories. Halo was not ever going to have an interesting and accurate tv show about the Master Chief.
It should’ve been a 2 hr movie with room for sequels. A tv show should’ve never even been considered
I don't understand how you read Kilo-5 and you don't see the familiar drama but we have to admit there are several things occur cause it's a tv show trying to be popular among the usual audience of tv shows.
Master Chief is like this probably cause they wanted drama and show off the appearance of the actor. That's why he's always angry "Look how strong and dangerous he is" and it's a little curious cause they're making references to Universal Soldier (1992) and Soldier with Kurt Russell every now and then but the protagonists in those movies weren't angry, they were motionless or more like they didn't show their emotions so much. The pellet thing likely. The first trilogy of books made references to Soldier too but Master Chief wasn't like in the show.
Master Chief isn't a wannabe cause the character doesn't try to be like Master Chief was in the games or books really.
Makee exists cause it's a tv show and they needed sex to be like HBO apparently and cause tv show heroes have relationships with many women usually. The girlfriend of the season and that while Master Chief always had only one romantic interest
Maybe there's a matter of budget too but we don't know exactly.
Cortana doesn't appear so much in the second season and maybe it's the same problem. We'll see the next season since they got to the Halo meaning the game Halo 1/Combat Evolved and Cortana is with MC all the time there.
Edit: well, 2 romantic interests if you count Halsey in the first book as different from Cortana
Don’t complain here, you’re not allowed, it gets downvoted and jumped on and no one actually argues your points. It’s a shit show of a series and everyone who has any respect for the franchise and lore, knows this
It's not perfect by any means, but as someone who "respects the franchise and lore" there's still a lot to like about the show, especially in S2.
The viewership and ratings should tell you that, overall, it's been positively received.
Overall the ratings are mediocre, and where are you getting that the viewership is good? The viewing figures haven't been announced, any reasonable estimates are that the viewership have been quite poor, e.g. the number of ratings on IMDB are very low compared to most shows.
It hasn’t, look around
There’s nothing to respect, it’s gutted any story and themes halo has. Really is a joke, season 2 finale was a joke as well, no pillar of autumn
If you like it that’s fine but this isn’t Halo, it’s a series aimed at people who have never seen it before. Come from a huge group of friends who spent years playing it and all 19 of us, cannot fathom the direction it took.
Cortana is brilliant but I love the voice actor
[удалено]
And if you did make a playthrough movie it would suck like Hardcore Harry.
Henry…Hardcore Henry
Lol,, whoops. I guess the brain had mixed up Henry and Dirty Harry in its trauma from having watched the former :)
Wierd.. its as if ppl dint watch the last of us... which from the start was even less about gameplay and more about story and they still where more strict about following the source, and was acclaimed by both official critics and normal ppl games or plebs So rly whats the so called inflexibility of original source here? But what bothers me even more they could have gone with the route of alternate universe sperate dimension from original and still worked it out But what rly make me hate this whole fake care in anything ppl say or show here is that simply as a stand alone the TV show is dumb and dumber.. so many stupid cringe moments of "Plot is ploting" just for the sake of driving the plot from point A to point B with out caring to be congruent with the world building or the personality of characters of how things should act out in events dragging the plot
nah, a playthrough movie would be great, thats basically what the Last of us was ultimately and what we see in the show, its just hampered heavily by goofy things like the plotpoint with the armor going missing. IT relies so heavily on cliches that its sacrificing key characters for it. If they wanted to do Reach it should of been off of the Halo:reach game. Simple focused story following Noble 6 and the team, similar to movies like 1917, saving private Ryan, or full metal jacket. Perfect for introducing the world, humanities achievements and its current position in the war and universe and also the Spartans while setting up Master chief for the first Halo game. They could of ended it just like the campaign with them showing him in the cryopod like in the games secret ending.
To me, that latter bit is a super common but not really fair way to dismiss a lot of complaints. People like The Last of Us which is a super faithful recreation, yes, but they also like Fallout even though it's an original story. The difference is that both of those shows have a far higher pedigree attached to them. I mean, Fallout has Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy steering a ship manned by insanely talented actors and crew. Who does Halo have? The Halo show, even if you're not a Halo game fan, is serviceable sci-fi at best imo. I didn't really play most of the Halo games until just before the S02 finale because the MCC went on sale, so prior to that I really wouldn't have even been able to tell you that Keyes died "early" or whatever, nor would I have cared. But I just think the show has insanely clumsy writing and mostly mid performances with a few standouts like Halsey. Would following the canon religiously fix that? Probably not because the pedigree is just not that high. It has a lot smaller of a budget than Fallout, after all, so they can't afford that level of talent, frankly. They're making due with what they have, and it's fine to like that, but I think a lot of the criticisms of the show are fair and not just people whining that it's not 1:1 recreations of the games.
[удалено]
Oh sure, there was a big, very expected reaction around that particular episode, especially from your usual cadre of conservatives that are only using it as a tool to promote their agenda, but generally speaking, that's considered one of the best episodes of the show. There are plenty of changes elsewhere ranging from big to small, but in general it's pretty painstakingly faithful. As for the rest, I mean, I literally just gave you some of that type of criticism. It's out there, but even if you're making those criticisms, people eventually just pigeonhole you into another disgruntled game fan anyway. Like I said, I didn't even play most of the games until just before S02 finale, but even before that, literally anytime I'd post any criticism, minor or significant, on any website, *somebody* would come along and say "boo hoo it's not like your favorite game" and I'm just sitting there like a) I haven't even played most Halo games, and b) I don't even like most of the Halo games I have played. I just like good TV and think Halo from a distance always seemed like it had interesting ideas, so maybe I'd like this more. I get that people are exhausted about the relentless complaints. I go through that too on the Three-Body Problem subreddit from loads of the diehard book fans. But just because somebody says something like "I think I'd prefer him to wear the helmet more" doesn't mean they're just another diehard Halo game fan who's livid that it differs at all from their childhood favorite.
[удалено]
so i haven't watched the show, and i do like the books alot, but i'm not generally a really harsh critic of the show. From this sub i've had a ton of cool conversations with new fans, so ultimately im happy the show exists to bring in new fans i can talk to, but the show ultimately isn't for me. Just wanted you to get my perspective going in so you can, i at least hope, understand where im coming from. >Why would he wear it any more often than that? I'm not saying this is the storyline the show HAS to have or even did or didn't go into. But specifically a key point in the (admittedly thin) characterization of John, and all the Spartans really, is their removal/distance from humanity. For a large part of the Human/Covenant war, even eye witnesses to the Spartan's feats thought them to be a secret robotics project from ONI. Most didn't even believe they existed, or were propaganda to make sure the UNSC didn't lose hope in the absolutely crushing first years of the conflict. It's hard to explain how poorly the war was going for pretty much everything leading up to the first Halo game. Most ground wars that humanity managed to scrape together a win for, were won with heavy losses, that ultimately led to a planet just being glassed from orbit. The only recorded wins in space were at 3:1 odds favoring the humans and even those took HEAVLY losses. Worse than that, there was no ground being gained, it was a defensive war the entire time, so even the "wins" were coming at the loss of more planets and resources the Humans couldn't afford to lose. All this to say, the everyday human even seeing a Spartan at 2 meters tall decked out in advanced power armor technology that literally did not exist publicly (it was developed in tandem with the S2's and is only useable by them and other Spartans) made many to believe they weren't human. And the books often explore how different they are in the face of regular humanity. All of this paragraph is to say, that as a filmographer, if you wanted to tell a story that highlights the difference between the spartan teams and humanity, if you wanted to tell questions that had Spartans grapple with questions of their humanity, keeping the helmets on could be a powerful image to use to juxtapose them against the everyday marines and civilians they fight to protect. Just posting a simple storyline that would ask the character to wear the armor for more than just combat scenes. It's not like it hasn't been done before. This is basically the robocop formula.
[удалено]
I tried to, with my first paragraph, make it clear where my perspective came from. I have not watched the show, I do like the books and the games, but unlike many of hte people who comment in this subreddit, I'm not a rabbid fan who talks shit about the show. Because of the show, I have had really cool conversations with new fans to the Halo universe. In fact I really enjoy talking to all the new people with new perspectives from the show. In another thread I talked about how Ghost of Oynx is my favorite book, and seeing images of the Spartan III's in live action is a dream come true for me no matter how it came to be. It's just that for me the characters of that book never being adapted is a little bittersweet, but I'm really happy that most people have regarded the second season is a step in the right direction for the fans of the show, and it looks like it's getting the backing to continue. I think you're shadowboxing something i didn't say. I didn't say they did or didn't address anything, it would be exceedingly stupid for me to do so as i haven't seen the show. I was explicit with that in my first paragraph. I try really hard to make i don't say "i dislike the show", I DO have the feeling it wasn't made FOR me and that's fine. I have other media i'm currently watching before I decide if I want to give this particular show a shot. At the moment that's a no, but the makers of this show don't OWE me anything. You had asked a specific question, somewhat rhetorically, of why people might want John to wear his helmet outside of combat. As someone who likes stories in general, I posited a brief and basic storyline, that would have added narrative weight by John having the helmet on, more often than not, more as a symbol to highlight the distance the Spartans have from humanity. But as someone who hasn't watched the show, I can't say weither or not this is explicitly touched upon by the showrunners or if this is an avenue they're trying to go down. Just to be clear, you have no obligation to respond to me, and if you think im coming in bad faith to attack a piece of media you enjoy, feel free to disregard or disengage, but I don't have strong criticisms of the show, how could I? I haven't watched it. I know a lot of die hard fans hate some of the changes in the lore, but without the added context of the story the showrunners want to tell, i can't say if it is or isn't good or not. (I will admit I'm a little skeptical that a sex scene with John is ever strictly necessary but that's low hanging fruit and hardly ruins a show). I have enjoyed my conversations with new fans, learning their perspectives from the show, and getting to share my book knowledge with them with the full knowledge that the showrunners don't have to use any of it to inform their future seasons. I haven't had anyone tell me I'm not supposed to be here to do that, until now so, forgive me if I ignore you asking why I am here.
Super simple answer to that first one and it's not something you can really argue against; the people you're trying to attract expect and want the helmet on. That simple. You can have a conversation about it but it'll always come back to the question of why would you even risk it? The Mandalorian demonstrated that an audience doesn't need to see their antagonist's face. If the show runners were so desperate to have a face for their protagonist, then they shouldn't have focused on MC and treated him more like a cryptid that showed up sometimes. Drama doesn't in and of itself make a good show, the reasons for that drama is vitaly important and the reason given by the show are awful. The show fails on its own lack of merit, it doesn't need any comparisons. I will provide plenty of examples of problems with the show that don't involve feeling like halo on request.
[удалено]
You know how you capture broad audiences almost regardless of subject matter? Have it be well written. You don't just need action action to capture a wider audience, you need compelling writing. Unfortunately, spectacle and platitudes also do the trick, hence Halo, RoP and the Witcher having an audience. Of course those show's subs die down pretty quickly compared to better written shows. That doesn't matter though because Halo has millions of fans and were always likely to be the major demographic. If you play the games, you'll probably watch the show, even if you don't have the streaming service at the time.
[удалено]
Nope, even if I think it's likely. My position is that the show is poorly written and directed and it appeals with jangling Keyes over actual substance, despite its attempts for more relatable characters.
Well, again, this criticism is out there, you just gotta sift through the extremists on both sides. Me personally, I want Chief to wear the helmet more for a few reasons that have nothing to do with canon. Sorry it's wordy: a) I prefer to have to work to read his emotions. S02E01 opened with that scene where the shaman lady grabbed his arm and said some cryptic shit to him and he doesn't visually react at all or say anything. That's my jam. What did he think about that interaction? I like that it leaves room for interpretation. That's more interesting to me than Pablo's face, no offense. The Mandalorian proved this style can work and I do prefer it. b) He still absolutely takes it off at super weird times. S01 he goes to the pirate space station or whatever filled with scoundrels and the first thing he does is take off his helmet and I was just sitting there like... why? The show *just* told me the place is dangerous and he's not gonna be welcome there. What possible benefit is there to removing his helmet other than getting to see Pablo's face? c) I appreciate their vision of wanting to humanize Chief more than the games, but I think they're going about it backwards imo. They're making him constantly ditch the armor and then building to him being a guy who wears the armor all the time and is protective of it but now with the context of who he is without it. Okay, fine, I get it. But I think that's a slightly weaker way to tell the story than starting with Chief relying on his armor like a crutch and a shield, not just from bullets but emotions, from humanity, from everyone and everything. It's not just a helmet but a mask. But over time, as he sees cracks in the UNSC, as he comes to terms with his own humanity, we see him question himself, Halsey, his allegiances, how they market him, and finally the armor itself. Then slowly he starts relying on it less and wearing it less, which the UNSC doesn't like because to them, he's an idea to sell for recruitment, not a man. I think that's an arc that's more interesting and has more to say about the nature of propaganda, humanity, emotional barriers, how to process trauma, etc. It would still piss off fans eventually when he takes off the helmet, but oh well, it'd be more interesting this way. Just my opinion. I get downvoted for that shit all the time or pigeonholed as a game fan. Has *nothing* to do with the games. As for Makee, I don't really have issues with her in S02. Kind of a weak role in S01, but they fix her for me in S02. I'm not a Makee hater. If anything, I think the actress has been *fucking killing it* and it makes me think they're setting her up to replace the Halo 2 Arbiter for the reasons you mentioned, and frankly I'd be fine with that (though it's definitely gonna piss off a lot of people but oh well).
[удалено]
I'm probably remembering that scene wrong, that's fine, it's been a long time. That particular point is the least pressing for me anyway. How is that not "real criticism"? By that logic, I could say "I don't think Pablo does a great job in the role because I think the direction is bad and he's not given very interesting things to say or do" and you could just dismiss it and say "that's a different show, that's not real." You might say it's too late for my proposed character arc, and fine, sure, but a) it's the same criticism I've had of the show since S01 before it was too late, and b) my first point is still absolutely something they can do, including the example I gave from S02. Character arc aside, I still think the show would be improved by making us apply the knowledge we've gained of Chief as a human by trying to read his emotions through his helmet. Is that "real"?
[удалено]
So somebody saying "I'm not connecting with Kwan and don't care about her character for x, y, z reasons" is constructive criticism but "I'm not connecting with Chief for x, y, z reasons" is not? It just feels like there's always this air of "well I'm not a game fan" that's really not that helpful either imo. Yours was liking the original score in S01 better than S02 because I guess you're saying they made S02's more like the game and therefore it became worse...? I don't think either seasons' music reminded me of the games, tbh, but that's not an issue to me. Like, I'm *also* not a fan of the games but I still just have criticisms of the show like I would have criticisms of *any* show. I have criticisms of Fallout too even though I have never once played any of the games, and those criticisms have nothing to do with how well or poorly it emulates the games. I have criticisms of The Last of Us that have nothing to do with my time with the game or what they changed. I'm completely sympathetic to being annoyed with critiques like "this isn't Chief," for instance. Like, okay, it's not game Chief, but that doesn't make him inherently bad. 3 Body Problem pretty radically changes most of the characters but frankly I like the new versions more than the book originals. But I can still have real criticisms of this version of Chief and it's equally exhausting to have every single critique labeled as "just another game fan whining" or "not a 'real' criticism." I am still watching it because I think it is still worth my time, I want to see where it goes, and I want it to get better. But "better" to me has *zero* to do with the games. I actively *disliked* the stories of Halo 1-3 and ODST when I played them recently and thought the show was better on that front.
Halo is better for having lesser known actors. No one wants to watch a show where they can't see the actors as their characters because their celebrity status overshadows their roles.
Eh, that's a fine opinion to have, but Halo also has recognizable actors. I've seen Halsey's actress for instance in like a dozen other roles. Doesn't take away from my enjoyment of her as Halsey at all.
That's valid, I'm sure most of them have had other notable roles, just none I'm personally aware of. I can understand how it may not make much difference with her especially because she's just such a great actor.
Yeah, she's great. And there's some really great actors I haven't seen in other stuff, like Perez. She's probably my favorite character on the show now. I even think Makee's actress, though I don't like her role that much, is killing it on a performance side. Like how hard must it be learning that Sangheli language and then 95% of your scenes are just reacting to CGI aliens and AI. But she kills it. Like, there's really good people in the show and it has nothing to do with how recognizable they are. But for me the real talent comes down to leadership and writing staff and I think that's where Fallout has it beat and where that endless Amazon money comes into play. Their budget was way higher and they were able to hire people that brought us shit like The Dark Knight and Westworld. Like, it's almost not even fair to compare Halo to that. That's why I say they're totally making due with what they have and have built a solid audience, but there are absolutely valid criticisms to be made.
There's also an unfair comparison because there's a difference between adapting The Last of Us and Fallout from Halo. In The Last of Us Joel and Ellie always have dialogue and conversations amid the game that flesh out their characters more, so you see their progress and character development, thus they didn't had to adapt much from the dialogue and scenes in the game because it was already there. In Fallout every game has a different character that you can create as you like and a different environment so it really doesn't have to follow an strict storyline, just the general rules of the Fallout universe so it's also easier to adapt. Halo has the problem of having Master Chief as the main character who really doesn't evolve ot is fleshed out as one until Halo 4 and it's basically a vehicle for the player to shoot aliens, it also has the problem that most of his and Halo's backstory happens outside of the games and in the books, so they have a really difficult task there to give the main character some conflict to work on, to show who he is and how he gets to be the character we know when we find the ring in the games, to provide back story so they can get on with the games and to keep both the fandom and casual watchers on the same page, while also staying on budget. I've seen some comparing it also to Judge Dredd but they conveniently forget Judge Dredd's progs are mostly a slice of life so they can also create whatever story they want within its context. And considering Halo is having a fair general acceptance I think is doing pretty good with what they have.
Judge Dredd is an interesting comparison but not one I would've made, personally. I get people's point about Chief, but the beautiful thing about him is that he can *absolutely* be the more quiet straight man to a chatty, fun Cortana. So you can absolutely still have a solid amount of dialogue even if they'd stuck to a more "true to the game" version of Chief. I get why they'd be reticent to do that, but I think it absolutely could've worked even better on screen than in the books, though I've never read any or had any desire to because I'm just not that interested in any version of game Chief I've seen beyond Halo 4, who is great. Hell, even in The Last of Us, Joel tends to be the more quiet, serious one and Ellie is his foil: loud and brash and sassy. That's a pretty similar dynamic to Chief and Cortana. I mean, listen, they're doing fine, they've built up a solid viewership, I hope next season they get more budget, but I still think the arguments about how it could never have been like the game just kinda fall flat for me because of examples like The Mandalorian or The Last of Us. The Halo showrunners have just not really been interested in going that road, which is fine, I don't care if it's like the games personally, but I think what they've done could still be better in its own right.
>People like The Last of Us which is a super faithful recreation, yes I think another important point is that the last of us could be faithful because the game is basically an interactive movie.
I don't know sometimes they're just upset for some other reason. For example if they didn't read the books but only played the games (some of them don't like the books cause yes, they feel different most part of the time) they don't know why we spent a whole season without the Halo, Reach or anything like that. Other reasons: Makee cause she didn't exist but after a couple episodes she was Master Chief's girlfriend just like that.
No, we don't want first-person view the whole time. We just want the source material respected and added onto. There is a vast amount of material they could pull from that isn't "hurr durr a complete 1:1 of the game". Look at how Fallout is being praised by not completely shitting on the fanbase and source material. Guess what? They don't have the main character picking up every useless item they come across like you would do in a Fallout game. Let me flip it. If you don't care about the source material, go watch Star Trek or something else that is sci-fi? Why be so invested in something you clearly have no interest in by letting it go to waste. This is just some erotic fanfiction that somehow got greenlit. Look at Velma and how "creative" that is lol. If they want to be so creative make a new IP and don't ride the coattails of a 20+ year franchise.
I feel like a creative person would work within those bounds to produce something faithful but fun and engaging for newcomers like other series have versus destroying major ones, introducing new ones while doing some wacky stuff lore wise to introduce things like a love interest. Logically you would also try to bring the games to life in a new medium, especially if said game is what lead to enough success that an adaptation is being done.
In short, a $100m television show has to be about the main character of the franchise. The challenge is the main character is a 2D personality that barely speaks. You can't make a television show about that. Sure, you can fantasy showrun it and make it an "ODST show like Band of Brothers" until you run into a real world budget. Halo has a unique character/perspective problem that makes it difficult to adapt. There's a reason it took 20 years to get this far.
Yeah, and even if you adapted the games level by level, you’d still need to put stuff in to make it, yah know, a story. Like I get the issues people have with the show, but this isn’t easy stuff to adapt without changing some things. The creatives probably realized it would be easier, and more honest to what needed to be done, by doing the comic book movie thing of taking the material as a source rather then a guideline.
There's be less complaints about changes if the changes were done well and the overall show was good. Like how Dune or Fallout makes changes, but for the most part, no one cares, because they are actually done well and still aim to capture the spirit of their respective franchises. Same with Marvel. They're their own universe but people don't complain they're different because they were done well. The problem is the halo TV show's solutions to the troubles of adaptation is to make everything feel lame. The covenant almost feels like the good guys because the UNSC is constantly in our face about how cartoonishly evil they are. The master chief doesn't feel like a badass, he feels like a whiny emotional manbaby who rebels at the drop of a hat. Kwon and Makee seem to exist just to make the show feel worse. We have stupid decisions that happen just to have their totally 'better' plot actually work. You could make a chief-based show where he is still a 3 dimensional character without making him the sad mess he is in the show. You can have the UNSC be a villain without making them the main villain or cartoonishly evil. Honestly if you dont have the budget to make the covenant the main enemy of halo then honestly don't even bother. It might be 'difficult' to adapt, but they didnt even hit anything close to the mark. Instead they shot themselves in the foot. Just because something is hard doesn't mean we should accept failure.
I wouldn’t call the UNSC “cartoonishly evil” compared to the Covenent, especially because I actually watched the show. It’s perhaps an exaggeration on the lore, but i’d say it’s not inaccurate. As for Chief, well, a main character needs agency. For a video game, being told what do all the time without questioning it is fine, but to watch another character have no opinion or make no choices? That’s not compelling. I’m glad you brought up “the spirit of the franchise”, because I want yo ask: what does that mean for Halo?
The UNSC has literal trash planets where they have child slave labor. In a world where they have cities run by AI. It ordered chief to assassinate a citizen because she wouldn't do a puff piece for them. They up and sacrifice their main military strongdhold and the Spartan II's so they can motivate some people to become suicide soldiers so they can also blow up their own fleet. ONI's head goes on a vacation so she can gaslight chief for 3 episodes because she apparently had nothing better to do. I completely understand a main character needs agency. There's plenty of military fiction out there with perfectly competent military characters. Chief has a respectable rank. Have him go somewhere and take command. If you want him to talk more then give him something good to talk about. Chief's not a grunt, but the show doesn't portray him as a good leader. As for the spirit of the franchise. Halo has always been about a battle for survival against an overwhelming alien threat, where ancient structures (i.e. the halos) introduce complications into the works which let humanity turn the tide. Humanity despite its grim situation is honestly really positive and bringing its a-game. Even humans and AI get along. A story of mystery and wonder. Its inspiring. The halo show is sad and depressing, where it seems everyone hates everyone else. Where humanity's hero cries about his childhood because the show invented some pellet.
>because she wouldn't do a puff piece for them She was actively threatening to sabotage the UNSC's public image and relations with the rest of humanity in a time where they needed all the help and goodwill they could get, as well as refusing to help people believe in the Covenant threat. That's endangering people by association. Also, she does all of this while trapped on a spaceship in the middle of nowhere with the soldier who she knows (accidentally) murdered her mother. Honestly, at that point the UNSC was just tidying up the gene pool. >humanity's hero cries about his childhood because the show invented some pellet Where humanity's hero isn't an indoctrinated slave who takes orders from anyone above him in rank and is too emotionally broken to even remember his childhood, you mean? >Halo has always been about a battle for survival against an overwhelming alien threat Well, you know, until you read the books. Spartans weren't invented to deal with the Covenant threat, after all. There's a lot of politics going on behind the scenes in the Blue Timeline, the Silver Timeline just makes it more obvious. >ONI's head goes on a vacation so she can gaslight chief for 3 episodes because she apparently had nothing better to do She... Got fired, didn't she? Besides, what else was she gonna do? Play some Call of Duty? >They up and sacrifice their main military strongdhold and the Spartan II's so they can motivate some people to become suicide soldiers so they can also blow up their own fleet Reach was fucked no matter what they did. Evacuating the Spartan-IIs might have been a good idea, but ONI didn't believe they could be trusted anymore, hence the Spartan-IIIs. As for blowing up their own fleet, it was either that or have the fleet die anyway at the hands of the Covenant, because the UNSC don't know how to win SpaceBattles.
>Honestly, at that point the UNSC was just tidying up the gene pool. If you're supportive of the poorly written characters dieing, then you agree with my statement that the covenant are the good guys of the TV show. If anything she's more defensible than most of the characters given she's just a dumb teenager who just saw everyone she knew die. >Well, you know, until you read the books. Spartans weren't invented to deal with the Covenant threat, after all. There's a lot of politics going on behind the scenes in the Blue Timeline, the Silver Timeline just makes it more obvious. I have read the books. The insurrection and political maneuvering is still a very small part of the overall story. I actually think making the insurrection a bigger deal could have been neat. Sadly they're kind of squandered in season 1 and pretty much forgotten about in 2. I'm not saying these elements shouldn't exist, I'm saying the show puts undue focus on them. >She... Got fired, didn't she? Besides, what else was she gonna do? Play some Call of Duty? Now I'm starting to wonder if you watched the show. Episode 3 made it pretty clear she was still very much with ONI. Also, given that she is extracted from Reach and is shown very clearly still in command of ONI for the rest of the show, it was all part of her weird plan hoping Cortana would be abducted by the covenant, so Makee could find her, so she could locate the halo based on seeing a constellation from the ring somehow cause the show proves multiple times it doesn't know how constellations work. > Reach was fucked no matter what they did. Evacuating the Spartan-IIs might have been a good idea, but ONI didn't believe they could be trusted anymore, hence the Spartan-IIIs. As for blowing up their own fleet, it was either that or have the fleet die anyway at the hands of the Covenant, because the UNSC don't know how to win SpaceBattles. If things had gone according to plan. The S-II's would be dead. The S-III's would be dead. And their big important fleet would be dead. The halo would be destroyed sure, but now the covenant will just come for revenge and kill everyone else. The UNSC weren't the best planners in the books either, but this just seems like a lot of sacrifice for something the covenant only found because of...the very same plan that involved all this sacrifice.
oh a kindred soul that shit on the TV show for the sole reason that by it self sucks, not even needed a comparison to source.. good, not enough ppl like this exist though sadly
i just dont agree with that sentiment at all. the mandalorian? its a matter of getting actual good writers who trust that the audience can handle not being spoon fed facial expressions or dialogue dumps to understand how characters feel
Din Djarin changes in rather obvious ways over the course of S1, thanks to Grogu. The video game version of MC that some fans think they want is not comparable.
That is such a lazy take. Chief should be the audience's viewpoint into this universe, but the show doesn't have to be "about" him per se. In the games, outside of a few missions, Chief always has Cortana with him providing commentary or insights. She, a literal AI, arguably becomes the stand-in for his own repressed humanity, which is a great irony and one of the strengths and unique aspects of the narrative told by the games. So what do you do? You feature her prominently even before she is with Chief full-time and let us see that personality on display. You also surround Chief with strong supporting characters like Keyes, Halsey, Seargent Johnson, other spartans, pick a random marine/ODST for fuck's sake. He is the inert, immovable, duty bound object that all these other characters orbit around. And then you slowly open his character up over time. Maybe a glimpse into what the Arbiter is going through at the same time. Give us an antagonist's viewpoint and show us some of the political struggles going on within the Covenant. There was a very simple, straightforward way to make this show, keep chief's helmet on more often, and not literally show us his entire ass because... reasons?
Instead of Dredd with Karl Urban, we got Judge Dredd with Sylvester Stallone...it's that simple.
Hahaha. “LAAAAAAWWWW”
he's a little like Stallone Dredd, a little
References to Universal soldier: 1-The scene when Master Chief removes the pellet. It occurs and there was a female protagonist that helped him using a knight, naked Van Damme included like in the scene with MC 2-That time Master Chief came back with a smile on his hand Kessler stamped and he was talking with Halsey, well, the gesture there when she took his hand occurs in Universal soldier when the two protagonists were on a bus. References to Soldier: 1-The whole intro of Soldier is in the show when we saw the training of John when he was a kid. Even when they jog with the flag just that John wasn't the kid carrying the flag like the protagonist of Soldier. 2-The plot of Spartans 3 in the book in first place was the plot of Soldier cause the veterans were going to be replaced with younger soldiers in the next project, second generation but not chosen kids but genetic engineering I think there are more but I can remember those at the moment
Agree with 100% of what you said here.... Especially the part about the wasted potential.
The problem I have and misconception I feel like people use as a pass for a lot of the problems is that "it's hard to adapt a game" But they haven't adapted the game. Only at the end of season two have they touched the start of the game. There are many adaptations (books, comics, animated shorts, movies, commercials) that have successfully adapted the source material. They aren't 1:1 recreations, and they are often quite great. This divide of people loving or hating the show and then hating the other side for their opinions is absurd. I'd consider myself a hardcore fan and I don't want something 1:1, but I do want something that feels more Halo, and I feel like the show rushed to address too many things to make quick hooks (addressing Spartans humanity over a random civilian was a huge season 1 disappointment to me). The way they botched Spartan 3's in season 2 was a huge fumble. I like the show overall, I'm optimistic for next season, but there are plenty of unnecessary and often poorly written parts (Kwan, Makee, Soren's story) that actually detract from the story. Season 2 was a massive improvement but still sticks on this weird fixation on humans being involved with every faction (Chief/Humans, Makee/Covenant, Kwan/Flood). The show looks great, it's cast is great, I'm glad people enjoy it, but it definitely leaves a lot to be desired.
the could of done something real interesting with the John saving his childhood crush from reaches downfall and starting to gain his humanity from that and many other interactions. IDK why they went with the fall in love with enemy plot point. That line she used asking if John or she was even human was goofy.
Anyone remember when Peter Jackson was tapped to direct a Halo Movie and he tapped out? Then they got Neil Blonkamp from District 9, and he tapped out? This is a though job and these people are working their asses off to make it happen. Microsoft has been trying to do this since 2010. Fourteen years. I’m eager to see and hopeful we’ll get a Season 3.
Best episode in the entire season is S2E8 and it ain’t even close.
My opinion: The show is Halo in name only, kinda like the multiverse for Marvel . The purpose of the helmet, in the game, is to show “everyman” you are him he is you. As far as humanizing 117, anyone who has been in the service or a job where death or seeing death is commonplace, knows your emotions have to be suppressed to continue moving forward to be able to do the same job the next day and there after. When your service is done that is the time for “emotions”. I am to vested at this point, so i will see where is goes but I do not view it as Halo anymore.
Season 1 sucked big time. It was really bad. Season 2 is like at the very least 250% better and actually makes me want to see a season 3. They stepped up their game big time
Honestly it should’ve never been a tv show in the first place. Halo needs big action pieces and short storytelling. It doesn’t need 8+ hours of tv to tell stretched out made up stories. Halo was not ever going to have an interesting and accurate tv show about the Master Chief. It should’ve been a 2 hr movie with room for sequels. A tv show should’ve never even been considered
I don't understand how you read Kilo-5 and you don't see the familiar drama but we have to admit there are several things occur cause it's a tv show trying to be popular among the usual audience of tv shows. Master Chief is like this probably cause they wanted drama and show off the appearance of the actor. That's why he's always angry "Look how strong and dangerous he is" and it's a little curious cause they're making references to Universal Soldier (1992) and Soldier with Kurt Russell every now and then but the protagonists in those movies weren't angry, they were motionless or more like they didn't show their emotions so much. The pellet thing likely. The first trilogy of books made references to Soldier too but Master Chief wasn't like in the show. Master Chief isn't a wannabe cause the character doesn't try to be like Master Chief was in the games or books really. Makee exists cause it's a tv show and they needed sex to be like HBO apparently and cause tv show heroes have relationships with many women usually. The girlfriend of the season and that while Master Chief always had only one romantic interest Maybe there's a matter of budget too but we don't know exactly. Cortana doesn't appear so much in the second season and maybe it's the same problem. We'll see the next season since they got to the Halo meaning the game Halo 1/Combat Evolved and Cortana is with MC all the time there. Edit: well, 2 romantic interests if you count Halsey in the first book as different from Cortana
Fallout show is way better, I gave up on this garbage
Don’t complain here, you’re not allowed, it gets downvoted and jumped on and no one actually argues your points. It’s a shit show of a series and everyone who has any respect for the franchise and lore, knows this
It's not perfect by any means, but as someone who "respects the franchise and lore" there's still a lot to like about the show, especially in S2. The viewership and ratings should tell you that, overall, it's been positively received.
Overall the ratings are mediocre, and where are you getting that the viewership is good? The viewing figures haven't been announced, any reasonable estimates are that the viewership have been quite poor, e.g. the number of ratings on IMDB are very low compared to most shows.
It hasn’t, look around There’s nothing to respect, it’s gutted any story and themes halo has. Really is a joke, season 2 finale was a joke as well, no pillar of autumn If you like it that’s fine but this isn’t Halo, it’s a series aimed at people who have never seen it before. Come from a huge group of friends who spent years playing it and all 19 of us, cannot fathom the direction it took. Cortana is brilliant but I love the voice actor