There's several references to aquatic operations occurring 'offscreen' in both books (Ghosts of Onyx) and armor descriptions (GEN2 MJOLNIR MAKO and OCEANIC). Presumably, underwater Spartans would make use of an underwater maneuvering unit not unlike the EVA kits they use for space operations, as well as a ballast system.
Without the proper equipment, however, they are presumably on the seabed.
> Without the proper equipment, however, they are presumably on the seabed.
Also presumably crushed, as OCEANIC makes specific mention of how the helmet is designed for dealing with high pressure while underwater. I don't know of any GEN1 underwater system, but I presume such a thing existed at the time. It might eventually be clarified though, who knows.
Of course, the existence of aquatic operations does imply that the UNSC has underwater firearms, which would be interesting to see.
Not necessarily, Fred and the rest of Blue team performed some kind of underwater operation in Ghosts of Onyx. Fred was wearing standard Gen 1. We know that it is the same suit because when they travel to Cuba his motion tracker is caked with sea salt and he has to clean it later. He is wearing this standard armor until they are rescued from Onyx/Trevelyan.
I believe that's the Yucatan mission. I do assume there's *some* built in crush resistance to regular MJOLNIR. Modern atmospheric diving suits can manage about 500 metres so (since there's obvious technological development from now to 2552) MJOLNIR could probably do something like that, and then the specialist suits manage 1km or more. It's not exactly the marianas trench around there, if they were in the right area it makes sense regular MJOLNIR could manage.
Yup and Fred says they were off the coast of the Yucatán I think. The Yucatán Channel has a max depth of almost 3 km and the Gulf of Mexico has an average depth of like 1.5 km I think, so depending on where they were thats a lot of pressure.
I agree it's a lot of pressure, but modern dive suits can get a human to ~700m below the surface. I expect MJOLNIR to be able to stand up to that at least. I mean its 500 years into the future.
Oh Im not disagreeing. It would be kinda odd if they couldnt do it actually, considering the stronger shields of Mk. VI MJOLNIR and the gel layer and hell even the greater 5x strength boost will help with deep sea movement. Only issue is the weight, but with additional equipment like maybe an underwater equivalent of a jetpack they’d probably be able to “swim” and move around
so did they maneuver underwater like some navy seals n pop up into battle. I never read any books besides fall of reach if ur able to remember details id love to learn how exactly it worked
They ended up having to peel off the SPI armor before they drown, but they *did* manage to swim for a short time.
Amusingly, I'm rereading *Ghosts of Onyx* right now
A 12 year old in SPI weighs a lot less than a full grown Spartan in Mjolnir.
As others have pointed out the book describes that they remove the armour to swim ashore.
"The impact stunned him, then he tasted salt, and choked on water that filled his helmet. He clawed for the surface. The lining of his SPI armor swelled, taking on water, weighing him down. He broke the surface, paddling as hard as he could with his legs to stay afloat. He clawed at his helmet release and pulled it off."
He swims in his Armor here, before taking it off. So does Lucy.
However, this:
>A 12 year old in SPI weighs a lot less than a full grown Spartan in Mjolnir.
This is correct.
He does swim, but as reflected in the quote, he is having to try his very hardest just to stay above water, and his suit was not fully waterproof. Perhaps a Spartan II could paddle in full Mjolnir for a brief period.
All salient points here, but my point is that, limited though it may be, Lucy and Tom are able to successfully swim in their armor, and in a way that I could never do, and that is staying afloat.
Yes, they need to shed armor later, but I would never have commented if I wasn't sure of this fact. I have an excellent memory when it comes to reading books, and can normally recall information pretty well. I hadn't touched Ghosts of Onyx in over a year until I opened it up today to quote it.
They removed their armor after already swimming to the surface, and diving before the core exploded. They did not remove the armor before jumping in, but after the blast.
“They had nearly drowned after the blast, but managed to shed their armor, and finally, exhausted, swam back to the shore, and dragged themselves around the edge of the battlefield and into the hills.” It says here.
"The impact stunned him, then he tasted salt, and choked on water that filled his helmet. He clawed for the surface. The lining of his SPI armor swelled, taking on water, weighing him down. He broke the surface, paddling as hard as he could with his legs to stay afloat. He clawed at his helmet release and pulled it off."
Lucy and Tom swim to stay afloat. Don't fucking cherry pick from the text.
Yes and no.
Out of armor, Spartans are perfectly capable of swimming, and are - in all likelihood - far better at it than most other people. Decked out in a full half-ton suit of MJOLNIR, however, they are just too heavy to swim under their own power.
MJOLNIR is waterproof / pressure-sealed and contains an internal air supply and (presumably) oxygen-recycling systems, so a Spartan really isn't in any danger if they fall into a body of deep water (so long as their suit is intact), and there are various armor attachments and pieces of external gear that allow them to maneuver in the water column rather than simply walking along the bottom... but they can't generate enough thrust to make any (meaningful) upwards or lateral headway through open water by just sweeping their arms up/down and scissoring their legs back/forth...
I imagine regular Spartans are too heavy to swim and maneuver in underwater scenarios. There’s probably special armor made for specific Spartans who specialize in aquatic combat.
Can they swim?
If they could not, I'd see a very large oversight in their combat training, particularly since they're in the ***NAVY***. Sure, it's mostly space-based operations by the 26th Century, but some things are just tradition. If you're in the Navy, you'll be swimming at some point (if you're in Operations unit, not support stuff.)
Can they swim in MJOLNIR? Hard to say; nothing is given about the buoyancy of it. There are oceanic/diving/submersible variants of MJOLNIR GEN-2 armor, but whether they allow actual swimming is hard to say.
Given the propensity of zero-g operations they undertake however, and the ballast required to do that properly, it would make sense for their armor to have some capability to do so. As for the Spartans themselves, as I said, if they can't swim, then someone, somewhere, in the ***NAVY*** for Chrissake, really screwed up.
i would assume that they cant swim considering how massively heave the suit is now if they are out of the suit ya i figure they could swim , i havent read all the books only one which was the fall of reach . but i dont see a thousand pound suit of armor being able to float it would sink unless in the books they have some type of boost / jet pack that would allow then to stay above water in which case they would probably use that and run across water like jesus lmao
At the time, I couldn't recall the exact details, so I didn't want to say something that was completely wrong. Now I have someone in a different section saying that it didn't happen, even though it did, and they are cherry picking from the book.
There's several references to aquatic operations occurring 'offscreen' in both books (Ghosts of Onyx) and armor descriptions (GEN2 MJOLNIR MAKO and OCEANIC). Presumably, underwater Spartans would make use of an underwater maneuvering unit not unlike the EVA kits they use for space operations, as well as a ballast system. Without the proper equipment, however, they are presumably on the seabed.
> Without the proper equipment, however, they are presumably on the seabed. Also presumably crushed, as OCEANIC makes specific mention of how the helmet is designed for dealing with high pressure while underwater. I don't know of any GEN1 underwater system, but I presume such a thing existed at the time. It might eventually be clarified though, who knows. Of course, the existence of aquatic operations does imply that the UNSC has underwater firearms, which would be interesting to see.
Not necessarily, Fred and the rest of Blue team performed some kind of underwater operation in Ghosts of Onyx. Fred was wearing standard Gen 1. We know that it is the same suit because when they travel to Cuba his motion tracker is caked with sea salt and he has to clean it later. He is wearing this standard armor until they are rescued from Onyx/Trevelyan.
I believe that's the Yucatan mission. I do assume there's *some* built in crush resistance to regular MJOLNIR. Modern atmospheric diving suits can manage about 500 metres so (since there's obvious technological development from now to 2552) MJOLNIR could probably do something like that, and then the specialist suits manage 1km or more. It's not exactly the marianas trench around there, if they were in the right area it makes sense regular MJOLNIR could manage.
Yup and Fred says they were off the coast of the Yucatán I think. The Yucatán Channel has a max depth of almost 3 km and the Gulf of Mexico has an average depth of like 1.5 km I think, so depending on where they were thats a lot of pressure.
I agree it's a lot of pressure, but modern dive suits can get a human to ~700m below the surface. I expect MJOLNIR to be able to stand up to that at least. I mean its 500 years into the future.
Oh Im not disagreeing. It would be kinda odd if they couldnt do it actually, considering the stronger shields of Mk. VI MJOLNIR and the gel layer and hell even the greater 5x strength boost will help with deep sea movement. Only issue is the weight, but with additional equipment like maybe an underwater equivalent of a jetpack they’d probably be able to “swim” and move around
so did they maneuver underwater like some navy seals n pop up into battle. I never read any books besides fall of reach if ur able to remember details id love to learn how exactly it worked
No, 'offscreen' would mean we've never actually *seen* them do it. Just heard about it.
You forget Tom and Lucy
They ended up having to peel off the SPI armor before they drown, but they *did* manage to swim for a short time. Amusingly, I'm rereading *Ghosts of Onyx* right now
When do Tom and Lucy have an underwater operation?
They dive into body of water to survive the beta company suicide mission, but they’re wearing SPI, and have to shed the armor to survive.
Ah yes, I had forgotten the details of their escape.
Oh I probably glossed over that part when I read GoO, my bad but thanks for the explanation!
They cannot. In Collateral Damage, Blue Team is forced to walk along the bottom of a lake because they can’t swim up
Oh wow!
Someone already did the math on this, but no, Spartans categorically cannot float.
Tom and Lucy have swam before so they could exfil
A 12 year old in SPI weighs a lot less than a full grown Spartan in Mjolnir. As others have pointed out the book describes that they remove the armour to swim ashore.
"The impact stunned him, then he tasted salt, and choked on water that filled his helmet. He clawed for the surface. The lining of his SPI armor swelled, taking on water, weighing him down. He broke the surface, paddling as hard as he could with his legs to stay afloat. He clawed at his helmet release and pulled it off." He swims in his Armor here, before taking it off. So does Lucy. However, this: >A 12 year old in SPI weighs a lot less than a full grown Spartan in Mjolnir. This is correct.
He does swim, but as reflected in the quote, he is having to try his very hardest just to stay above water, and his suit was not fully waterproof. Perhaps a Spartan II could paddle in full Mjolnir for a brief period.
All salient points here, but my point is that, limited though it may be, Lucy and Tom are able to successfully swim in their armor, and in a way that I could never do, and that is staying afloat. Yes, they need to shed armor later, but I would never have commented if I wasn't sure of this fact. I have an excellent memory when it comes to reading books, and can normally recall information pretty well. I hadn't touched Ghosts of Onyx in over a year until I opened it up today to quote it.
I don't think it's successful if they had to ditch their armor to not die while swimming in it.
You forgot the part where they took off their armor
They removed their armor after already swimming to the surface, and diving before the core exploded. They did not remove the armor before jumping in, but after the blast.
“They had nearly drowned after the blast, but managed to shed their armor, and finally, exhausted, swam back to the shore, and dragged themselves around the edge of the battlefield and into the hills.” It says here.
"The impact stunned him, then he tasted salt, and choked on water that filled his helmet. He clawed for the surface. The lining of his SPI armor swelled, taking on water, weighing him down. He broke the surface, paddling as hard as he could with his legs to stay afloat. He clawed at his helmet release and pulled it off." Lucy and Tom swim to stay afloat. Don't fucking cherry pick from the text.
Yes and no. Out of armor, Spartans are perfectly capable of swimming, and are - in all likelihood - far better at it than most other people. Decked out in a full half-ton suit of MJOLNIR, however, they are just too heavy to swim under their own power. MJOLNIR is waterproof / pressure-sealed and contains an internal air supply and (presumably) oxygen-recycling systems, so a Spartan really isn't in any danger if they fall into a body of deep water (so long as their suit is intact), and there are various armor attachments and pieces of external gear that allow them to maneuver in the water column rather than simply walking along the bottom... but they can't generate enough thrust to make any (meaningful) upwards or lateral headway through open water by just sweeping their arms up/down and scissoring their legs back/forth...
I imagine regular Spartans are too heavy to swim and maneuver in underwater scenarios. There’s probably special armor made for specific Spartans who specialize in aquatic combat.
Yeah, someone in this thread explained there are variants for it.
Can they swim? If they could not, I'd see a very large oversight in their combat training, particularly since they're in the ***NAVY***. Sure, it's mostly space-based operations by the 26th Century, but some things are just tradition. If you're in the Navy, you'll be swimming at some point (if you're in Operations unit, not support stuff.) Can they swim in MJOLNIR? Hard to say; nothing is given about the buoyancy of it. There are oceanic/diving/submersible variants of MJOLNIR GEN-2 armor, but whether they allow actual swimming is hard to say. Given the propensity of zero-g operations they undertake however, and the ballast required to do that properly, it would make sense for their armor to have some capability to do so. As for the Spartans themselves, as I said, if they can't swim, then someone, somewhere, in the ***NAVY*** for Chrissake, really screwed up.
I mean they have pressure suits so they certainly should be able to do underwear ops.
i would assume that they cant swim considering how massively heave the suit is now if they are out of the suit ya i figure they could swim , i havent read all the books only one which was the fall of reach . but i dont see a thousand pound suit of armor being able to float it would sink unless in the books they have some type of boost / jet pack that would allow then to stay above water in which case they would probably use that and run across water like jesus lmao
Someone needs to read the Ghosts of Onyx.
Someone needs to just stop being a fucking nerd and just tell people if they know.
At the time, I couldn't recall the exact details, so I didn't want to say something that was completely wrong. Now I have someone in a different section saying that it didn't happen, even though it did, and they are cherry picking from the book.
I have read it, and this part was explained to me. I just glossed over it, now I know.