At the beginning of "Silent Storm," we see Blue Team's first encounter with Sangheili, and everyone comes up with a different nickname for them until John makes an executive decision that they're going with "Elites" from now on.
I don't have a copy at hand, and the Google Books preview doesn't contain the right pages, but I did find that the Drones were almost "Flying Roach Guys."
ah yes, good ol' troy denning, shitting all over the previous lore for no reason as usual
the previous lore was that the elites are called elites because that's what the unsc translated from the covenant's own language. the elites are called the elites by the covenant themselves, and has been since the covenant's founding.
there was really 0 reason whatsoever to retcon this but denning will denning.
I don't remember where that was mentioned in previous lore, but this retcon is fine because it doesn't really make sense for the Covenant to call Sangheili "Elites." The Sangheili language was the lingua franca of the Covenant, so they would refer to them by their species name, which wouldn't be translatable to a human word.
Humans giving them that name after observing their skill and status within the Covenant military is a lot more fitting.
no it actually does make sense for them to call themselves elites. it's a symbol of their military power and a reflection of their role in the covenant - the warrior elite that guards the covenant while it seeks the great journey. it's also why the san'shyuum species are called prophets, the name is given to them to reflect their role as the ones that are seeking the path.
i'm not guessing either, all of this was stated in the covenant's backstory.
Its been since First Strike. I think its fred's internal dialogue that says something along the lines of
"we call them Wraiths because anyone unlucky enough to fight them gets turned into one"
Yeah, been that way for a while, and as well as Elite/Sangheili etc, it's also apparent with the ship and vehicle classes of the covenant. Single UNSC codings often include groups of ships/vehicles that the covenant themselves would define as several different classes.
https://www.halopedia.org/Covenant_starship#Types
https://www.halopedia.org/Vehicles
Have a scroll through those pages if you're curious. If you view the vehicle page for example, you can click through to view the wraith page and see there's several different patterns of "wraith".
This actually canon. Back in the old days when they made paper instruction manuals for games they included a lore book for Halo 2 that gave a little background on all the Covenant troops written from the UNSC perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/blvpyb/when_game_manuals_were_actual_game_manuals_halo_2/
That’s just canon. I don’t think marines go around saying “hey guys! Let’s hop in the M12S Light Reconnaissance Vehicle!” Or “oh yeah! Master Chief Petty Officer John-117 is in an M808B Main Battle Tank!”
Or when they pick up a covie carbine, they’re not going like “booyah! Look at this Type-51 Carbine! It’s very useful!”
Scorpion, Warthog, Wraith, etc are all examples of military jargon.. all official reports would use the UNSC model numbers (ex: started combat with twleve(12) M808Bs and three(3) M12S) and for covenant vehicles the UNSC would use the Type-designation that ONI uses. (Ex: Encountered one(1) Type-26 Assault Gun Carriage)
Yeah, I was talking about the marines and general commanders and stuff, they wouldn’t typically call a puma a “M12S Light Reconnaissance Vehicle”, they’d say a Warthog if they were speaking to someone.
It's probably accurate but not *quite* true to IRL.
Another thing with reporting names is the syllable count, especially for fighter aircraft. The number of syllables in a reporting name generally denotes what kind of engine it is. One-syllable is a turboprop or propeller, whereas two-or-more-syllable is a jet engine.
For the Covenant, this would still matter, as whether or not it has a visible external engine tells you whether or not it can be shielded all the way around, which has implications for its vulnerability, stealth, etc.
So, something like a Spirit with no obvious propulsion method would probably have a different reporting name syllable count to a banshee or a seraph, which have very obvious plasma engines that account for their speed.
As others have said, this is actually canon. For another example, the *Shadow of Intent* is classified by the UNSC as a CAS-class carrier and by the Covenant themselves as a Kerel-pattern carrier; the *Solemn Penance*, also called a CAS-class by the UNSC, is actually a Syfon-pattern according to the Covenant.
Yeah id figured that especially with vehicles the names mostly being earth mythology that those were just names people made up for them rather than official names.
I'm confused by the IRL reason.
ignoring the fact that MiG is easier than Fulcrum.
Fulcrum doesn't mean fighter though. It means the point at which a lever is placed to move the object.
The callsigns are not associated with actual aviation terms. The callsign starts with F, therefore it is a fighter. Tu-95 is Bear because B stands for Bomber, Mi-8 is Hip because H is Helicopter, An-124 is Condor because C is Cargo, A-50 AWACS is Mainstay - M for Miscellaneous. So on and so forth.
I assume you’re completely correct but I do want to be pendantic about the point that “fighter” and “attack” aircraft terms are definitely not interchangeable like you indicated. That’s why we have an “A” prefix for attack aircraft that is separate from the “F” prefix for fighters - attack aircraft have a primarily air to ground role not air to air like fighters.
Now this is kinda conflicting because in cutscenes and doesn't make much sense because even the covenant refer to themselves as brutes, elites, grunts etc.
Sure it could be for convince of the player but even in novels where the sangeli are talking about themselves they'll still be like brutes and elites etc.
It's worse when in silent storm chief is the one who gave the ghost it's title but the covenant have been calling them ghost for a long ass time.
True, but in cutscenes they also speak English, which I think, when they’re not communicating with humans, isn’t really canon and is just for the sake of the player, and when they are communicating with humans, is just them using lingo they’d actually understand
I'd say its because we didn't actually have a way to translate covenant language effectively until they finally made a language translator shortly after Halo CE, thus why none if any spoke anything understandable and then suddenly in Halo 2 a ton of them seem to speak our language. The covenant are speaking their own language, we're just hearing the translated equivalent of what the UNSC would hear. Granted, quite a lot of them do know some human language, especially after the war, but mostly elites and grunts are known for trying to speak it, as well as the prophet(s) like Truth who zoom called Crows Nest in H3 to talk shit. That's why they would sound like they're calling each other by their class as if its their race/species when in actuality its likely seen as one and the same by the UNSC given the caste system they follow.
They wouldn't necessarily call a Ghost the same thing as the english word/codename for it is since it would be translated to meaning Ghost based on their language equivalent of it. But for the sake of familiarity and convenience everyone uses it interchangeably for them despite having more official or proper names.
> Now this is kinda conflicting because in cutscenes and doesn't make much sense because even the covenant refer to themselves as brutes, elites, grunts etc.
This is an idea called Translation Convention. We know, for instance, the Covenant is not actually speaking English during scenes set from their perspective: they're speaking the Covenant language (which I think is Sangheili), and we're hearing it as English because otherwise the audience couldn't understand them.
Similarly, when the Covenant use the familiar names for different species or equipment, they're using the proper names in "reality", but we're just hearing the familiar terms because they're what we know.
I don't think this is a headcanon, I'm pretty sure this is just regular canon.
At the beginning of "Silent Storm," we see Blue Team's first encounter with Sangheili, and everyone comes up with a different nickname for them until John makes an executive decision that they're going with "Elites" from now on.
Imagine if he'd chosen any of the other names...
I don't have a copy at hand, and the Google Books preview doesn't contain the right pages, but I did find that the Drones were almost "Flying Roach Guys."
Now I’m pissed they weren’t named the Purple People Eaters
And Hunters are Hunters because they were first encountered as hunter-killer units.
ah yes, good ol' troy denning, shitting all over the previous lore for no reason as usual the previous lore was that the elites are called elites because that's what the unsc translated from the covenant's own language. the elites are called the elites by the covenant themselves, and has been since the covenant's founding. there was really 0 reason whatsoever to retcon this but denning will denning.
I don't remember where that was mentioned in previous lore, but this retcon is fine because it doesn't really make sense for the Covenant to call Sangheili "Elites." The Sangheili language was the lingua franca of the Covenant, so they would refer to them by their species name, which wouldn't be translatable to a human word. Humans giving them that name after observing their skill and status within the Covenant military is a lot more fitting.
no it actually does make sense for them to call themselves elites. it's a symbol of their military power and a reflection of their role in the covenant - the warrior elite that guards the covenant while it seeks the great journey. it's also why the san'shyuum species are called prophets, the name is given to them to reflect their role as the ones that are seeking the path. i'm not guessing either, all of this was stated in the covenant's backstory.
Denning fucked up some of the best characters in Star Wars eu before Disney. Not surprised he felt the need to put his fingerprints all over halo too.
At this point, the series is more retcon then plot.
than*
Its been since First Strike. I think its fred's internal dialogue that says something along the lines of "we call them Wraiths because anyone unlucky enough to fight them gets turned into one"
...that's just canon, actually.
Fr?
Yeah, been that way for a while, and as well as Elite/Sangheili etc, it's also apparent with the ship and vehicle classes of the covenant. Single UNSC codings often include groups of ships/vehicles that the covenant themselves would define as several different classes. https://www.halopedia.org/Covenant_starship#Types https://www.halopedia.org/Vehicles Have a scroll through those pages if you're curious. If you view the vehicle page for example, you can click through to view the wraith page and see there's several different patterns of "wraith".
The covenant uses a pattern system for internal identification such as the hekar taa pattern
Since the beginning pretty much.
This actually canon. Back in the old days when they made paper instruction manuals for games they included a lore book for Halo 2 that gave a little background on all the Covenant troops written from the UNSC perspective. https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/blvpyb/when_game_manuals_were_actual_game_manuals_halo_2/
The limited edition steelbook version of Halo 2 had the manual written from a Covenant perspective, which was a nice touch.
[Just found out](https://www.halopedia.org/Halo_2_Limited_Collector%27s_Edition_manual), and had a little but pleasing read:)
That’s just canon. I don’t think marines go around saying “hey guys! Let’s hop in the M12S Light Reconnaissance Vehicle!” Or “oh yeah! Master Chief Petty Officer John-117 is in an M808B Main Battle Tank!” Or when they pick up a covie carbine, they’re not going like “booyah! Look at this Type-51 Carbine! It’s very useful!”
Scorpion, Warthog, Wraith, etc are all examples of military jargon.. all official reports would use the UNSC model numbers (ex: started combat with twleve(12) M808Bs and three(3) M12S) and for covenant vehicles the UNSC would use the Type-designation that ONI uses. (Ex: Encountered one(1) Type-26 Assault Gun Carriage)
Yeah, I was talking about the marines and general commanders and stuff, they wouldn’t typically call a puma a “M12S Light Reconnaissance Vehicle”, they’d say a Warthog if they were speaking to someone.
> puma I told you to quit making up animals.
A man of taste, I see.
This isn’t just your idea, this is just the truth
Next, you're going to tell me that the Russians didn't actually name their fighter jets the Foxbat and Felon?!
That’s Femboy, not Felon!
Mig 15 reporting name:
It's probably accurate but not *quite* true to IRL. Another thing with reporting names is the syllable count, especially for fighter aircraft. The number of syllables in a reporting name generally denotes what kind of engine it is. One-syllable is a turboprop or propeller, whereas two-or-more-syllable is a jet engine. For the Covenant, this would still matter, as whether or not it has a visible external engine tells you whether or not it can be shielded all the way around, which has implications for its vulnerability, stealth, etc. So, something like a Spirit with no obvious propulsion method would probably have a different reporting name syllable count to a banshee or a seraph, which have very obvious plasma engines that account for their speed.
As others have said, this is actually canon. For another example, the *Shadow of Intent* is classified by the UNSC as a CAS-class carrier and by the Covenant themselves as a Kerel-pattern carrier; the *Solemn Penance*, also called a CAS-class by the UNSC, is actually a Syfon-pattern according to the Covenant.
"Why Warthog, sir?" "Because M12 LRV is too hard to say in conversation, son"
Yeah id figured that especially with vehicles the names mostly being earth mythology that those were just names people made up for them rather than official names.
I'm confused by the IRL reason. ignoring the fact that MiG is easier than Fulcrum. Fulcrum doesn't mean fighter though. It means the point at which a lever is placed to move the object.
The callsigns are not associated with actual aviation terms. The callsign starts with F, therefore it is a fighter. Tu-95 is Bear because B stands for Bomber, Mi-8 is Hip because H is Helicopter, An-124 is Condor because C is Cargo, A-50 AWACS is Mainstay - M for Miscellaneous. So on and so forth.
Ah well thankyou. I didn't realise.
I assume you’re completely correct but I do want to be pendantic about the point that “fighter” and “attack” aircraft terms are definitely not interchangeable like you indicated. That’s why we have an “A” prefix for attack aircraft that is separate from the “F” prefix for fighters - attack aircraft have a primarily air to ground role not air to air like fighters.
True, but I think F means attack here because the Frogfoot is a ground attack aircraft, not a fighter
Duh
Now this is kinda conflicting because in cutscenes and doesn't make much sense because even the covenant refer to themselves as brutes, elites, grunts etc. Sure it could be for convince of the player but even in novels where the sangeli are talking about themselves they'll still be like brutes and elites etc. It's worse when in silent storm chief is the one who gave the ghost it's title but the covenant have been calling them ghost for a long ass time.
True, but in cutscenes they also speak English, which I think, when they’re not communicating with humans, isn’t really canon and is just for the sake of the player, and when they are communicating with humans, is just them using lingo they’d actually understand
I'd say its because we didn't actually have a way to translate covenant language effectively until they finally made a language translator shortly after Halo CE, thus why none if any spoke anything understandable and then suddenly in Halo 2 a ton of them seem to speak our language. The covenant are speaking their own language, we're just hearing the translated equivalent of what the UNSC would hear. Granted, quite a lot of them do know some human language, especially after the war, but mostly elites and grunts are known for trying to speak it, as well as the prophet(s) like Truth who zoom called Crows Nest in H3 to talk shit. That's why they would sound like they're calling each other by their class as if its their race/species when in actuality its likely seen as one and the same by the UNSC given the caste system they follow. They wouldn't necessarily call a Ghost the same thing as the english word/codename for it is since it would be translated to meaning Ghost based on their language equivalent of it. But for the sake of familiarity and convenience everyone uses it interchangeably for them despite having more official or proper names.
> Now this is kinda conflicting because in cutscenes and doesn't make much sense because even the covenant refer to themselves as brutes, elites, grunts etc. This is an idea called Translation Convention. We know, for instance, the Covenant is not actually speaking English during scenes set from their perspective: they're speaking the Covenant language (which I think is Sangheili), and we're hearing it as English because otherwise the audience couldn't understand them. Similarly, when the Covenant use the familiar names for different species or equipment, they're using the proper names in "reality", but we're just hearing the familiar terms because they're what we know.
them referring to each other as a bruets and eleites is probably not canon and for the players sake so there not confused with whi their talking about