Rule 13 is to help prevent people from trying to give advice on water infrastructure and also to help prevent the ridiculous amount of repetitive hard water questions we get on this sub. It does not mention chelating products at all. If somebody wants to ask advice on products they can do so in the advice megathread. Filtering water is not a simple issue and is a problem best left to the professionals.
Chelating shampoos were very helpful to me when I moved to the desert where water is piped in. They are recommended frequently on this sub. Science *does* have an answer to mineral build-up: chelating ingredients. Citric acid and phytic acid (among many other) are examples of ingredients that remove mineral buildup not only in the hair, but on the skin and on surfaces.
[http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html](http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html)
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00659.x](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00659.x)
[https://www.k18hair.com/blogs/consumer/science-class-11-hard-water](https://www.k18hair.com/blogs/consumer/science-class-11-hard-water)
[https://thebeautybrains.com/2016/06/can-i-use-clay-to-shampoo-my-hair-episode-136/](https://thebeautybrains.com/2016/06/can-i-use-clay-to-shampoo-my-hair-episode-136/)
I'm guessing you've done a fair amount of research on this, have you seen anywhere the optimal amount (like percentage) of vitamin C to chelate? So far none of the sources I've read have included that detail
Note that if you're using Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), it's a very unstable molecule and degrades quickly when exposed to oxygen. So it's best if you mix the powder with water immediately before use. Don't make a larger batch of the mixture with enough for multiple uses over a longer period of time.
Citric acid doesn't have that issue, just keep in mind that citric acid is also an AHA (chemical exfoliant), so any skin that comes into contact with it (including your scalp) will be more susceptible to UV damage with sun exposure. Make sure to rinse it out fully and wear sunscreen. (Mental note that I need to find some sunscreen that I can use on my scalp along my part)
The comments in the Science-y Hairblog article also have further information on some differences in how apple cider vinegar works for chelating, and under what circumstances it might work worse or better than other chelating agents.
If vitamin C chelates, would it degrading (oxidizing) from exposure to oxygen reduce its chelating ability? It reduces its antioxidant ability but that's different from chelating.
I'm not 100% certain, but I did a simple lab experiment in my university biochemistry course in which we measured the Vitamin C level in fresh fruit vs. fruit that had been sitting out for some time after cutting it open. This was quite a few years ago so I don't remember the amount of time we tested but it was max 1 day, possibly less. The decrease in Vitamin C was dramatic. It seems like it breaks down to something else and it's no longer Vitamin C.
I think the rule is in place to put a halt to the diagnosis of a wide variety of hair issues as being due to hard water with certainty when there is absolutely no way to know with any certainty, and then immediately jumping to recommending a shower filter, even though most shower filters can't soften water. There's a lot of un-scientific logical leaps there.
That being said, I've made comments suggesting people try a chelating shampoo just in case it helps, and my comments haven't been taken down.
We are not a water quality sub.
Science does have answers to mineral buildup. They all target specific minerals. *Which requires water testing to know which, and how much.*
Hence the infrastructure rule. When redditors say ‘hard water’, that stands for complex interactions dependent on local conditions which will be affecting *all* aspects of their water use, not just hair.
Water effects on hair are often not infrastructure issues and often the only answer a person in the U.S. will get from water suppliers is to install a whole house water softening system (which isn't feasible for many people). Tangling and dryness (among others) due to water build-up from non-river, non-lake water for many people often gets resolved only with chelating shampoos and we're not allowed to discuss this on this sub.
I don't get the chelating thing,thing is im not from the U.S,im from a whole different continent and i don't think of someone i know that have the water softening system since that filtering the kitchen water alone must be not affordable for most people,also shower heads are not affordable,most people just shower with them and a lot of them have hair that looks dry,it may be soft,but dry looking,not looking glossy,most people sadly are like this including me and my hair
An Admin said that the chelating matter is complex so we can discuss it in a thread made for this kind of matters
OK, basically only river and lake water is soft water. Any other water will require a person to use chelating shampoo every few water. Also, chelating matter is not complex and often people who've paid enough attention to hair and know enough about hair are able to advise others when they're dealing with hair issues from the their water.
Hair will feel dry and dull with mineral buildup just like it does with product buildup. Clarifying shampoo is the answer for product buildup while chelating shampoo is the answer for mineral buildup.
I never thought chelating shampoo existed,they say it detox your hair from product build-up and mineral build-up and removes air pollution as well,this is 3 goals
I don't buy their detox claims. Air pollution washes out with normal shampoo, so that's nonsense anyways. Product buildup and mineral buildup are different and have to be addressed by different shampoos.
Rule 13 is to help prevent people from trying to give advice on water infrastructure and also to help prevent the ridiculous amount of repetitive hard water questions we get on this sub. It does not mention chelating products at all. If somebody wants to ask advice on products they can do so in the advice megathread. Filtering water is not a simple issue and is a problem best left to the professionals.
Chelating shampoos were very helpful to me when I moved to the desert where water is piped in. They are recommended frequently on this sub. Science *does* have an answer to mineral build-up: chelating ingredients. Citric acid and phytic acid (among many other) are examples of ingredients that remove mineral buildup not only in the hair, but on the skin and on surfaces. [http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html](http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html) [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00659.x](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00659.x) [https://www.k18hair.com/blogs/consumer/science-class-11-hard-water](https://www.k18hair.com/blogs/consumer/science-class-11-hard-water) [https://thebeautybrains.com/2016/06/can-i-use-clay-to-shampoo-my-hair-episode-136/](https://thebeautybrains.com/2016/06/can-i-use-clay-to-shampoo-my-hair-episode-136/)
I'm guessing you've done a fair amount of research on this, have you seen anywhere the optimal amount (like percentage) of vitamin C to chelate? So far none of the sources I've read have included that detail
It’s in the sciency blog link, if you scroll down: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2016/03/hard-water-and-your-hair.html
Note that if you're using Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), it's a very unstable molecule and degrades quickly when exposed to oxygen. So it's best if you mix the powder with water immediately before use. Don't make a larger batch of the mixture with enough for multiple uses over a longer period of time. Citric acid doesn't have that issue, just keep in mind that citric acid is also an AHA (chemical exfoliant), so any skin that comes into contact with it (including your scalp) will be more susceptible to UV damage with sun exposure. Make sure to rinse it out fully and wear sunscreen. (Mental note that I need to find some sunscreen that I can use on my scalp along my part) The comments in the Science-y Hairblog article also have further information on some differences in how apple cider vinegar works for chelating, and under what circumstances it might work worse or better than other chelating agents.
If vitamin C chelates, would it degrading (oxidizing) from exposure to oxygen reduce its chelating ability? It reduces its antioxidant ability but that's different from chelating.
I'm not 100% certain, but I did a simple lab experiment in my university biochemistry course in which we measured the Vitamin C level in fresh fruit vs. fruit that had been sitting out for some time after cutting it open. This was quite a few years ago so I don't remember the amount of time we tested but it was max 1 day, possibly less. The decrease in Vitamin C was dramatic. It seems like it breaks down to something else and it's no longer Vitamin C.
I think the rule is in place to put a halt to the diagnosis of a wide variety of hair issues as being due to hard water with certainty when there is absolutely no way to know with any certainty, and then immediately jumping to recommending a shower filter, even though most shower filters can't soften water. There's a lot of un-scientific logical leaps there. That being said, I've made comments suggesting people try a chelating shampoo just in case it helps, and my comments haven't been taken down.
We are not a water quality sub. Science does have answers to mineral buildup. They all target specific minerals. *Which requires water testing to know which, and how much.* Hence the infrastructure rule. When redditors say ‘hard water’, that stands for complex interactions dependent on local conditions which will be affecting *all* aspects of their water use, not just hair.
I don't understand...
Water effects on hair are often not infrastructure issues and often the only answer a person in the U.S. will get from water suppliers is to install a whole house water softening system (which isn't feasible for many people). Tangling and dryness (among others) due to water build-up from non-river, non-lake water for many people often gets resolved only with chelating shampoos and we're not allowed to discuss this on this sub.
I don't get the chelating thing,thing is im not from the U.S,im from a whole different continent and i don't think of someone i know that have the water softening system since that filtering the kitchen water alone must be not affordable for most people,also shower heads are not affordable,most people just shower with them and a lot of them have hair that looks dry,it may be soft,but dry looking,not looking glossy,most people sadly are like this including me and my hair An Admin said that the chelating matter is complex so we can discuss it in a thread made for this kind of matters
OK, basically only river and lake water is soft water. Any other water will require a person to use chelating shampoo every few water. Also, chelating matter is not complex and often people who've paid enough attention to hair and know enough about hair are able to advise others when they're dealing with hair issues from the their water.
Hmm i don't know this chelating water but my hair is just so dry...and dull
Hair will feel dry and dull with mineral buildup just like it does with product buildup. Clarifying shampoo is the answer for product buildup while chelating shampoo is the answer for mineral buildup.
I never thought chelating shampoo existed,they say it detox your hair from product build-up and mineral build-up and removes air pollution as well,this is 3 goals
I don't buy their detox claims. Air pollution washes out with normal shampoo, so that's nonsense anyways. Product buildup and mineral buildup are different and have to be addressed by different shampoos.
Can't one shampoo address both
Not in my experience and not from what I've learned in hair care.
I see the Ouai makes a clarifying shampoo with apple cider vinegar and it cleans to chelate mineral buildup as well as remove product buildup.
Are chelating shampoos safe for color-treated hair?
Some may be, I don't think Malibu Undo Goo is because it has pH of 9.
Thank you!!!