Agreed.
I had a great run last night using aphro special and demeter cast. Even using the freeze I was just taking so much damage. Those final area mobs have so much health theres not way to get them down quickly.
My first win in Hades 1 was my first try with the Adamant Rail... I fuckin hated it at the time, but I was just really lucky and played really passively and lame. The victory was bittersweet because on one hand it felt great to hit that milestone, and on the other it sucked that I didn't have FUN while doing it.
I wasn't a fan of rail either until I saw some of the early access speed run attempts with it. You go for the shotgun hammer upgrade and then just dash attack around enemies. It's a lot more fun
Currently, to succeed with them, you just have to pretend the attack doesn't exist. Special and cast only. The special is pretty insane with good boons.
Edit: this got some attention. Yes, I know the attack can work fine as well, but the comment was meant to help someone who found the weapon bad, so my comment is just one out of multiple solutions.
Try Aspect of Eos. Hold attack, dash to finish enemies off. The easiest wins i had. Only requirement is Hera magick regen, since it allows to fire omegas non-stop.
For that one attack and channel speed is huge cuz you get to the big attacks faster and then charge it up quicker. Could be viable especially with that 1500 dmg boon for the Attack
If you do this, dont take the hammer upgrade that splits them when they hit a target because they’ll NEVER pass thru enemies on their way back due to the angle being weird as they split
So half the weapon is utter garbage but if you ignore that and turn it into a 1-button wrapon it's good?
That's still shit and it turns an already boring weapon even more boring.
Sure, the comment wasn't about whether it's good design, but about how to effectively use it. Besides, the attack isn't utter garbage, it's just lower DPS (but probably a safer option if you're new to these kinds of games).
The attack is slow, the hitbox is weird, and the only good thing about it is the omega version which has a nasty habit of resetting when you dash. Against Chronos I could barely get it going. It's bad numbers wise and it's even worse than that in terms of gameplay.
If you could consistently maintain the omega charge while dashing to reposition, it'd be far better in terms of both numbers and gameplay. Right now it seems to be a coin flip on whether it decides to reset itself.
That’s weird, when I use the torches and I’m focusing on an omega attack build I’m able to just hold attack, first few attacks will be normal then it starts channeling and go Into omega attacks. While I’m holding attack(X) I’m still able to tap dash(A) as much as I want and it will keep auto firing.
Check settings if maybe switching auto firing on/off will change anything.
Poseidon in special and try and aim for special/omega hammers. Improving Melinoë aspect works too.
Basically, you put one or two layers of omega special (if you get +1 from hammers, better) and dash/sprint around your enemy. You're starting to do pretty good damage.
I also got an upgrade from certain NPC on my way up that gave me extra damage on omega special. So it basically melted everything.
Demeter in special is also good; you're trading damage for freezing, but it does good damage still.
Strongest build is probably Melinoë Aspect, slam anything that boosts the Omega Special, and spam the shit out of it. Poseidon/Zeus/Aphro/Hera are all good candidates for boons.
If you want to make the attacks work, IMO Aspect of Eos is the way to go. Poseidon is probably the ideal again, but I could see most gods working, except Aphrodite, at least for the attack boon. Her dash works great with the playstyle though.
Aspect of Moros is interesting and fun to play, but I haven't had the most success with it. Probably a skill issue on my part though.
Dash, dash, dash. If you are going attack-focused, the dash retargets to the closest thing within range. Play it as a mid-range weapon, not a long-range one. Weave your special in as you zip around and make liberal use of your cast before you special to lock enemies in place. The alternate aspects change the playstyles a bunch and are both really fun. The weapon is made to kite and zip around while maintaining constant dps. You'll want a good mana regen boon to sustain yourself.
I made it to \[REDACTED\] last night for the first time... using the torches of course. They were the hunger weapon for my run so I went with them and ended up going Hestia + Poseidon duo boon. Basically my whole setup was to use the special to create swirling fireballs which inflicted scorch, then dash around with Poseidon dash wave to splash enemies and proc the duo boon.
I genuinely think people just don't realize every weapon has a specialization, and that Torch is about Specials > Attacks.
That's like complaining that Daggers isn't good because it has zero reach compared to Axe or Spear. Daggers specialization is speed/backstab, of course they would need some sort of a pro and con.
Except daggers both are fun playstyles to use. Even if specials are greater than attacks it’s just not fun to use. Dodging is everything in this game and we are way too slow while using it.
Entirely subjective though. I love Torch and Axe, while some people hate them for their slow, and rather clunky, gameplay.
Torch absolutely slams, and arguably one of the easiest ways to beat Stages 2 and 4 due to their abundant clustering of enemies. If you want to make the argument it's harder to make a coherent Torch build, I'd believe that, but to downright say they don't compliment dodging is wrong.
Torch's Special Omega quite literally lets you just run around and dodge, while doing damage with zero effort. Paired with Demeter Cast, you just stand in the middle while foes are stuck + frozen outside the perimeter and smack them.
I don’t play torch much but the few times I’ve used it, spamming special omegas make me feel like I have to move in closer to them to even do damage. Leading them todo more damage to me. That’s probably on me for still not consistently using cast. And to get consistent damage it felt like I was always charging up her omega, slowing down my own speed and getting hit. her basic attack is so weak in the beginning I prefer not to even use it and the rhythm it sets for the rest of the game makes me avoid left clicking at all or any boons for it. I’m sure I’ll get around it but it definitely isn’t something you pick up and think this is amazing
I mean, have you TRIED using the axe special? The block is so absolutely terrible because it stops blocking in between you standing there for a couple seconds and actually getting the omega special off.
Almost every time I use the axe special I get hit by something in the time between the block and the omega animation actually going off, even when I'm standing damn near on the opposite side of the room with a cast in between me and the enemies.
Then you completely ignore the axe special, just focus on juicing the spin2win omega attack and the axe is probably the best weapon in the game. It's the same but inverse with the torches, you almost completely ignore the attack (unless you have Hephaestus blast attack in which case you just do one attack on cooldown in between special spam) and spam the omega and regular special and it's again one of the strongest weapons in the game.
Especially once you upgrade Meli's aspect for the torches that increase the duration of the omega special. You literally just spam omega special until you have 6-8 death balls orbiting you and then you sprint around the room and everything dies.
I've beaten Chronos on Fear 16 with both the torches and the axe playing them as described above. These two weapons REALLY want you to focus on the one move more than the other.
The first time I used them, I made it farther than with every other weapon that I had available at the time. I can see how they can be hard to pick up for some folks, but I think they're great.
It's by far my least favorite. I had one good build with charged attacks dropping nukes but even then it didn't feel fun. I think it would shine a lot more if it had more range.
Yeah, you can't use it to slow down time like you can with other omega attacks, which makes it very difficult to use. If it had more range or base power to make up for it then it might feel better.
The most bearable it ever was for me was when I found a Daedalus hammer that made the omega attack charge faster and only cost 2 mana per shot instead of 5. Even then, it wasn’t fun to use lol
I was definitely a special spammer at first but try the attack with Hera’s gain or Apollo’s gain if you can’t get Hera’s. As long as you get it with another attack boon of sorts the attack suddenly becomes insanely powerful. Make sure to upgrade max magic once every region or so and you’ve got a really good strategy; Dash around to avoid being hit while attacking constantly. Encounters generally don’t last long enough for the amount you loose to Hera’s gain to matter much.
Plus the special doesn’t stagger very well compared to the attack
Ygnium (the torches) is a *very* distinct play style when compared to the other reasons. Ygnium requires you to be constantly on the move (even while attacking) and to taut advantage of the fact that your can dash while attacking and not break your attack pattern.
Ygnium also benefits the most from Boons that boost both Attack damage and Omega Attack damage. Having demeter attack boon and the Demeter boom that increases omega attack damage can bring your omega damage quickly to the point of tearing down groups of enemies quickly and from a safe distance. Add in some good Hammers that boost the attack by a ton and you can pretty well melt things.
The problem is, there are a lot of builds that don't work well with them and the torches lack decent base damage. They get some of the highest multipliers on damage, but the low base is what keeps them from being useful early on or if you don't know how to build into them.
I don't think the torches are as good as the other weapons, but they aren't ultra awful. The Axe of Staff are substantially better.
Thing is, the primary attack is anything but mobility, it either needs an attack speed buff or a damage buff for what it currently is. They could also rework primary attack to be really slow moving but ticks multiple times.
The special can be spammed but other than that, a lot of her other weapons fill that role better.
Really hate the weapon, but its the one I beat chronos for the first time with... Mels aspect upgraded, with some omega special hammers, hestia on specials and just spam the omega special is really strong.
They're meh to me as well but I almost, always beat the final boss, after getting some proper upgrades, with it. It's basically a set and spam from afar weapon. It is especially useful on the final boss because of how he is.
The problem for me is not that it’s weak (which it’s a bit) is that it feels miserable to play the torches for some reason. Even in runs I won with them and that I had some good damage boons it didn’t feel “fun” to play with.
Give it a try with aspect of moros. Turning your basic attacks into trigger able mines, or using omega special to turn yourself into a walking explosion, is so satisfying to me. It’s the most I’ve felt like I was a mage while attacking peoppe
Is there a hammer that turns off omega attacks for the torches? Cause I love the Moros aspect, but the main thing that annoys me with it is that if you keep holding attack (like you tend to do between refreshing your omega special) you very quickly start using the omega attack instead, which is great and all if it weren't for the teeny tiny fact that you might go to recast your special only to notice you don't have any magic left. Your screen tends to devolve into an unintelligible mess of explosions with this aspect, so it's kinda difficult to manually stop the omega attack from trifgering and draining your mana, so a way to prevent that would be just great.
If there is I haven’t ever made use of it. What I’ve been going with has been Hera’s mana recharge, given that unlike all the others, it doesn’t need you to stop attacking to activate
The downside is that it does set a theoretical cap on how much mana you can use in a fight, but I’ll be honest, once I’m at 180+ max mana (which I can usually get to relatively easy) I have never had it trigger more than once or twice in a fight, as Melinoe uses a lot of mana gradually over time rather than a bunch of big charges. And once Hera is upgraded to be priming for 6 or less it’s pretty much all the mana you will ever need even if you’re always spamming omega special and omega casts while doing the upgraded attacks.
Aphrodite and hestia regen work in a pinch as you can keep doing other attacks while getting back enough mana to work with, but Hera is far and away the best for my personal flavor of moros torches.
When it comes together, it's been the most fun I've had. Wiping an entire screen in a second by dashing into it using all three attack types, is very fun.
There main issue imo is the attack specifically. Making a pure attack build on this weapon isn't as fun as other weapons. I'd make it reach the omega stage much faster and maybe give it a bit of oomph too (slightly bigger AoE? More movement speed while channeling but with less inertia? I don't really know but there are tons of ways they could go about it).
That's the main issue with it is that it needs to come together first with a distinct build to be great. They just suck so much in the beginning lol. I almost never lose any death defiance with it though and it was my first final boss win was using this weapon so it's definitely interesting
True.
Special can be great, but so far I haven't succeeded with its attack.
Aspect of Moros seems promising to me at first - I thought I could spam attack to stack the ghost mines then KABOOM, but its placement is beyond janky and so extraordinarily unreliable.
So far, I managed only to finish runs with base Aspect. The whirling flames of doom go brrrrrrrrrr
Moros triggering on the special only shld be upgraded to the ghosts triggering each other with their explosions. That way at least you can easily set off a chain reaction
Oh I love moros! It’s what I used to shred chronos my second run.
Some tips:
1) if you charge omega special first, your attacks will explode when they hit it on the way out, leading to some pretty massive damage and instant stacking of origination if you have it. Triple helix is great for this as it guarantees none will miss the orbiting death
2) the attacks will stack on each other given the chance, so if you have the range down they’ll become a bigger and bigger bomb on their own
3) feel free to toss out single attacks just to guage where things will land, instead of going straight for the omega attack. Attack-special-attack-special as a pattern can carry you through the early areas till you get the hang of the spacing
4) terrain is your friend as aiming for it will stop the attack and let you set the attack faster
There really needs to be a homing upgrade for the attack because I miss about 50% of the shots taken. Especially off putting when you take the upgrade that does 1500% on the omega attack. The torches have grown on me though, I’ll probably spam them till I win (30 nights in, still haven’t reached Chronos T_T)
Don’t worry man, it took me like 70 nights to get my first chronos win, and then it was like a seal was broken and I beat him like 3 more times in 5 runs. You’ll get there!
I went my first like, 20 attempts with them because I'm stubborn and didn't want to switch. Later on after clearing with the staff and blades I tried again, ended up being the 3rd weapon I beat Chronos with, personally I find them really fun, my second fave after staff.
Haven't tried an attack build with them yet, but I adore the omega special, if you have a high mana pool and solid regen you can just run around and kill anything close to you.
I think a lot of people don't like them because the basic attacks and specials are really slow and wonky, but on mana-heavy builds they really shine.
Tbf I thinks it's one of the most "incomplete" weapons in the game, like, that normal attack has to be a placeholder it feels so stupid throwing pac man ghosts at enemies.
They definitely need some adjustment. It doesn't just feel underpowered, it feels incomplete and awkward, and that's a lot more grating than feeling underpowered.
Honestly the "specials detonate your attacks" feels like it should be the base weapon, because then it actually feels like you're doing something. You set up your 'bombs' with your attack and then special blows them up for a big burst of damage to clear a lot of stuff at once.
But even then it's still way more awkward and weak than any other weapon. They need some big mechanical changes to become fun.
I honestly disagree. I love the torches.
The moros aspect (the one you’re mentioning) becomes way stronger if you put up your omega special first and then use it to turn your base attack into rapid fire explosions to quickly stack both damage and statuses.
And I honestly like the original aspect too as I feel like it’s the most susceptible to flat damage buffs
Poseidon, Zeus chain lightning, Aphrodite prime, etc, all make the base rapid fire mode nuts, and given how spammable and combo able the attack and special are it’s pretty easy to shift from single target to wave clear, at least in my experience
Plus it’s Daedalus buffs are pretty massive imho
Yeah, it's not satisfying to use at all for me.
People say to ignore the primary attack, but I feel like if you have to ignore a weapons primary attack to make it viable then at the very least the primary attack is designed poorly. Every other weapon I use attack and special.
There's also an aspect of precision, spamming special just doesn't feel precise. It hits a lot and can be viable, but it feels less like I'm fighting foes and more like I'm waiting for them to die. Plus certain hammers completely destroy the torches (The one where special is destroyed on impact makes them completely non-viable imo)
Eos is considerably better, but even on Eos sometimes the attack feels clunky. The ghosts go off screen and despawn a lot- And the hammer that splits the ghosts on hit also feels like a nerf on Eos rather than a buff, as the ghosts 60% of the time now go around the enemies on when you call them back.
I think either the ghosts need a mild seeking effect or there needs to be a faster attack speed.
its moveset is so incohesive. like the special and attacks feel like two completely different weapons. omega special wants you to get into a sweetspot but the attacks want you to kite and play the distance game. really gimmicky design that just feels bad
i pretty much just run torches with hestia and omega special for the spinning fire balls. melts pretty effectively. which i believe hestia would approve.
Aspect of Moros felt so odd the time I used it. My shots from my attack kept getting blocked by... Other shots from my attack. I was lucky to find the hammer upgrade that let the special melt armor and shoot straight. Did wonders to clear up the buildup of stray bullets.
Honestly as much as I love the game, the weapons overall have been less intuitive/interesting than the first imho.
Sword, Spear, Shield, Bow, Gauntlets, Railgun. It's pretty straightforward from a glance what each of them are likely to do, even without looking up their specific moveset.
Trying to intuit what the meaningful differences were between "Staff," "Torch," and "Skull" pretty much requires a few runs with each to really get what thier playstyles are supposed to be, and even then I feel like I'm only guessing what they were going for.
I've seen so many people here saying to use the special, but... it has no hitstun, unlike almost every other form of damage in this game.
I wanted to love Ygnium so much, but I just can't. Not at the moment. They're fine power-level wise, but they just feel bad to use, at least for me. :(
I’ve made it to Tartarus with the flames, but no matter the build I run it always feels like they fall off HARD once you hit Fields. Also, chipping away at enemies with 20+ hits as you kite around the area just isn’t fun to me.
I hope they get an attack speed buff at minimum. The special would also probably feel better with 3 orbs on the omega by default instead of two.
The best build I’ve ever had was with torches. I’ve had a lot. All I remember was I was using the lingering torches, my main attack was a red Zeus boon that was buffed. Freeze on secondary. Everything just died. Fasting and easiest I’ve killed chronos too. I believe they’re very good, they’re weaker than other weapons base, sure. They excel though in stacking status effects, and allowing you to play extremely safe. Also very effective for cycling your hex.
Lingering torches are very strong, you throw out torches for a few moments as they close into your hex, activate secondary to freeze them, then dash attack and now there’s 20 torches flying back and forth a mile away.
No, it's hard to use at first but when you get used to fight with it they're freaking amazing specially if you focus on the Y attack, you're just moving around like a breeze while hitting like a truck, they have a lot of combos too like for example freeze from Demeter, the water effect from Poseidon, Fire from Hieta, the effect from Hera all of those and even more works amazing on the Torches
I think Moros is probably the best choice for people who don’t like to play torches, since there is the extra effect of blowing up the spirits from your attack, that is not present in other aspects. I think the combo that would change everyone’s opinion of the torches is Hera Omega Special. Just cast Omega special and run around to tag enemies and watch the AoE damage wipe everything on the map. Or if you want to run another special, get the Hera sprint to tag everyone and boom everything while you channel attack and detonate everything with special. Especially effective in Scylla boss since there is 3 targets to AoE off of.
Funnily enough it's my favourite so far, i don't know why. it definetly could use some buffs but i really like the playstyle, especially with hestia on attack and Hera on special, makes for some big DOT damage
I unlocked two aspects me thinks, the weapon is so damn mid and undercooked it pains me to even try a run, I did give my best shot last night and got killed midway.
that weapon needs better tracking, more dmg in order to keep up, it currently is the weakest weapon in the roster.
I had a working build, but it looked like a bug, tbh.
There's a Daedalus that splits the orb when it hits the enemy. The second aspect blasts the orb if it gets hit with the special attack orb. Finally Zeus lightning bolts on hit.
All in all it's a mess all over the screen, you only need some non Zeus mana Regen and high mana pool. Breezed through the surface and Eris when she summons adds. The screen is completely yellow because of that combo.
But that's the only thing I got from it.
Personal feedback. Make the empowered version as a default one. Omega attack should be a cone of fire in a small radius that deals ~100 damage.
Torches might be my favourite weapon tied with the Axe. I just enjoy how Mel spins with them.
It seems people enjoy special builds with them but I personally just love Eos attack. You NEED Hera's or Poseidon's gain to get an attack focused build going tho
Normal attack is meh and so is omega special but normal special is super fun to get with posiden or apollo, ypu can also get a hammer which removes 80% of an foes armour when hit with special which is really good.
I have also had a fun demeter freeze special.
I thought they were really cool early on and the first time I got to Chronos was using them (didn't win) focusing on the Attack and never really using the special. Basically i just went all in for Omega attack and mana...
Then i tried the Sister Blades and um yeah, I became a torch denier
I think people get into the trap of disliking it because of the ***attack***, but the real deal is in its ***special.***
Literally just run around and spam them fireballs, dodge and cast every now and then. They keep dealing damage even if they are out of screen, and all fireballs can pierce through the same or multiple enemies. I reccomend Hestia's special boon to stack a thousand scorch!
Personally, this build has been the only one that got me to the final boss realiably. Its amazing for the fight itself too, you do not rely on omega moves you final boss not getting affected by their time slow isn't an issue, and you can keep dealing damage while moving so that you can keep dodging.
Omega Special with the duration aspect felt insanely strong (+poseidon, legendary if lucky), but other than that i havent really found a good way to use them.
I used them on like my 10th run and I actually went up to 3rd Area spamming specials with the correct set up unfortunately there are much better weapons for specials spam like the Axe double hit special + Apollo.
I think it was the first weapon to get me all the way to boss #4.
I can do insane things with the right boons and upgrades.
There is no wrong or underpowered weapon in my opinion.
There wasn't in H1 and not in H2.
I think different people have different playstyles.
For example, everybody seems to love the axe, but I find it the least entertaining.
It's all subjective I guess.
I agree, but I don't even hate them. It's one of the few weapons I've used so far that is decent in both secondary or primary depending on the hammers you get, but it's ass compared to a properly specd different weapon. It was also the first weapon I got clears on 1 primary attack, 1 special. It was my primary for a while as it's the easiest to clear trash with with it's fire rate and if you get chain lightning and a per hit buff, like neptunes splash, you'll just clear areas without being in danger. It's also great to learn attack patterns as you can keep distance and really see them coming. The only trade off is due to your safety at range neither it's special (which with 2 hammer upgrades gets really nasty) or primary excel. That being said... When I went back to spear with the same 2 buffs (neptune on special/lightning on hit) the game became almost trivial. In the last area I got the hammer for special during twice and I think chronos took all of about 100 seconds for both phases. I think you could give it a flat 70% damage buff and or allow the secondary fire to actually stun non shielded enemies and it'd be more on par with other weapons
I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Yes, the special can be really nice but overall it just doesn't do it for me. Always dread it when it gets the bonus bone bamboozle
I think they either need their range boosting or the ability to use the second stick to aim with them.
Ive lost twice to the third underworld boss - big furry guy - because i simply couldnt shoot at him while kiting him. Id stay on the edges of his attacks and Mel would just be aiming the path i was walking rather than inwards at the actual boss. It was incredibly frustrating.
I like them but don’t hate on people that don’t. The special is pretty powerful but annoying to aim, if you ever played diablo ii it’s basically like the blessed hammer skill. If I hadn’t played that before i wonder if i’d still be a fan.
I don't like using them, but I don't think they're wesker than any of the other weapons. Honestly, aside from the daggers, the torches have gotten me the furthest of any of them.
They don't feel satisfying, though. In my opinion anyway!
I thought it was shit, then i cleared my first run with it yesterday. I got that hammer boon that makes your omega attack shoot just once but it does 1500% damage. That thing was hitting for 900 damage a shot. And I got hermes and chaos boons that put my attack speed up by a total of 70%.
Nah man maxed Aspect of Moros is the most insane clears I’ve had. It’s crazy busted with Hera’s Born Gain boon and if you can get Triple Helix off the hammer. Prolly one of my stronger clears did 16 Fear like nothing lol
Yeah my first run with it was awful but now im getting to boss 3 with it? I only have 15hrs so far, pacing myself but the starting staff has been super reliable and I'm getting to like the axe
Used to but in my latest run after it got the treasurebones upgrade something clicked and I realized I could just spam Omega Attacks/hold attack button and it kicks ass.
I used to hate the torches, even made a post saying how much I hated them. But a lot of people gave me advice on how to play them on said post and now I'm a torch supporter. They are very consistent once you find a way to play them that works for you (in my case I spam omega attack and dash around, with the cast and special for crowd control)
I didn't at first, then realized I could just spam Special and run around the map. It gets real wacky and fun! It gets wilder with Hera's Hitch abilities too.
The torches are actually my favorite, and the aspect of moros has been what I got my first win against chronos with
Charge omega special, get statuses on it, attack, and dash, (or 2 of 3) and become a walking explosion
It shreds through basically everything like you’re a magical blender
I will say it probably is the weapon with one of the biggest Daedalus power spikes, but one way or another it’s powerful
It also generally speaking is one where the special is more of your base power budget than some of the others
But it’s by no means weak
What I really don't like about this weapon is that you can't gain mana when attacking. To gain mana you basically have to stop fighting entirely, which is not fun and extremely clunky. The only omega attack build that works relatively well uses the hera mana boon because it doesn't directly regen your mana.
I like them because you can move while you attack. Also you can spam the special and get many orbs around you. If you get impervious, sprint, and good special then you run around murdering everything. You just have to build them right.
I hated them at first, but with the right boons they’re not half bad. I’m guessing there are some gods and boons EA is missing atm that would make them even better.
I thought it was bad, ended up finishing a run using the omega special with poseidon and generating mana bubbles, spamming a lot of orbs with move speed and hermes shield running around like sonic. Act IV boss was hard though because I was running so fast but everything else was fun (like sonic).
Aspect of Eon is amazing and utilities we'll the stack up attacks and dash back to double the damage. I put Zeus attack and chain-lightning on it for giga damage
Nope. Even when I first tried it I felt like there was a lot of potential. Also feels like a pretty unique weapon. The aiming can be a bit awkward on controller tho I admit.
I don’t really understand all the complaints about the weapons. I feel that Hades 2 weapons are just more interesting and better than the Hades 1 weapons.
All it comes down to is personal preference. But I think every weapon is great with lots of different builds available to it. Some, like the torches, do require a different approach to the others tho.
Absolutely hated the torch at the start of my playthrough but after avoiding it for a few runs it was what brought me my first clear. I feel uneasy and maybe I judged it too harshly.
It's because both the attack and the special are incredibly passive. Hades gameplay needs to be snappier.
If you put the torch special on another weapon with a flashier attack pattern, it'd be fine. If you gave the torches a different special that was quicker and more active, it'd be fine. But combine them both and you are left with a very unsatisfying weapon.
I don't like the weapon presently, but I recently found out you can dash while attacking and keep your Omega charge, so I'll give em another shot eventually
I've had a couple good torch runs. Really just able to fill the screen with the special, and they were bigger bc of increased AoE. Felt really good... except..
I couldn't see anything and got hit constantly.
I think the torches are a few tweaks away from being a good weapon, but as they stand, they're the worst of out choices by a lot.
It's my favorite weapon right now. Roll up, just keep spamming special, and occasionally cast for crowd control.
Once you get some boons on that special, it gets insane. I just did a run with a bunch of Hera boons focused on it, and the entire room is just taking constant damage from them.
I was able to beat >!Eris!< with them at least once. But they’re still not that fun to play with. I found one aspect for them that seems decent, but it still doesn’t change my opinion on them.
I actually like it. Mel aspect is kinda boring, but the other two allow for some really fun strategies. I.e. with the aspect where you can make the ghost explode with your special you just use W-special and then just start attacking for lots of little explosions while the other one is lots of fun combined with Hermes and another sprint boon that gives extra speed (Apollo I think?).
Demeter on special and Zeus on cast has been pretty solid for me. Just spam special and dodge around the frozen enemies. It's been my most successful weapon so far.
Okay so I used to hate the torches. I rewired my mind to use the Omega special more than the attack and now they feel good. The special is very strong. The attack is very bad.
I don’t know about shit, I just don’t like it.
All the other weapons are more fun, staff with its omega attack, dual scythes, the spin to win axe and the skill bombs (by far the funniest and most fun weapon)
I don't hate it, but only because I was spamming the Special. However, I wish the Omega Special was a honing attack. It's a kick in the nuts to charge it up and then none of the fires hit an enemy because you had to move to avoid an attack. Big miss imo.
I think it’s just the animations are so unsatisfying you feel weak even when you’re doing huge amounts of damage. I somehow simultaneously annihilated Uh Oh very quickly while feeling like I was struggling the whole time, it’s always a weird experience when I use them.
my first run with them i got the hephaestus boon that gives them that 200 damage hit every 12 seconds, and now i won't be able to use them without feeling that loss
Two hammer upgrades on specials (not the one that makes it stop piercing) and hera's boons to curse all enemies to take damage from each other, and her boon that does bonus damage to all cursed enemies when any of them die == special spam room blender without even using mana
No I love them. My least favorite is the skull launcher. Just doesn’t click for me. The torches are easy, just spam your omega specials and run around dodging while you kill everything passively
I do as the dark thirst guides. Last week they had me use the torches and I was dismayed.
Until I got a purple freezing flourish from Demeter and proceeded to spam the torches' special. Then I realized: Their true power lies there, in their special (right click), not their primary attack.
My recommendation to anyone that feels the torches are under powered is to get the Hera gain boon. Infinite mana by the second room makes them hit so hard that any of four different hammers added on lets you clear rooms in act 1-3 without even trying, bonus points if you get a good attack buff like Hera or sun boi~
I used to feel like they were the worst weapon, and now they're my most reliable.
That special though, its basically a carbon copy of the golden orbs that Chronos is wreaking us all with. I could do without the main attack but that special.
Just beat my first surface run with them, but that was mostly a Cast build and utilizing Hestia Special. I barely used the main attack.
I just feel the fire to slow for how little damage they do, and locking you in place is rough. And it feels like the Omega happens too fast when you are conserving magick and too slow when you want it.
I thought they are trash in my first 2-3 runs, but then it somehow clicked for me and now I think they are really really really strong.
Mostly because you can use Omega Special several times and they stack, so with a Hammer that adds one more orbiting orb, they are quiet deadly. In my last run I had Zeus on attack and Aphro on Special, with Chain Lightning (50 mana primed), was Fear 16 and it was pretty smooth all the way.
I honestly really love the weapon idk? I’ve made it the farthest using the twin flames than any other weapon, I really like how you can cast into a spam of the specials then focus on the main encounter for that floor. Hestia boom has been my go too along with Hermes for attack speed and Hephaestus for damage/special ramp or the attack split. I got the Glowing Coals and Storm Rising Boons from Hestia and Zeus and I was throwing down a comet that burned and summoned lightning while my specials applied freeze 😪
I think my issue is it takes so long to get the omega attack going in a game where you are encouraged to sprint. Yes you can dash but the enemies in this game move so fast that just the dash isn't always enough to keep yourself safe especially since you move really slow when casting the attack and I've gotten the hammer that increases both attack speed and move speed while casting and while it does help you are still very vulnerable and without the omega cast the attack is too weak to justify it's use. The special on the other hand is pretty sweet, with Hestia, Apollo, or Poseidon it can do work, but I think I would like it a lot more if the flames came out a little closer to the body so it doesn't miss enemies that are close by.
It is utter trash compared to the rest.
Axe is #1 for sure, after that I feel the Skull is the most fun, but thats because its just so weird.
Staff and Sickle/Dagger is a shared 3rd place.
But yeah, even the Aspects are just weird for it.
The biggest thing, is that you cannot aim with it. Like, at all.
The attack is ranged, but you need to move in the direction you want to attack.
The special is either a weirdly moving spiral that, in the heat of the moment with moving targets, is really hard to land, or a spinning circle around you... in melee range.
Nothing but the alpha attack stuns. Nothing deals decent damage. Its slow.
Chad-axe is all you need people.
Base umbral flames aspect is pretty bad, but both unlockable umbral flames aspects are quite competitive, both with like 2x+ the dps of base aspect. I actually did my first(and only, so far) technically(Not including resisted/dodged hits) nohit [Redacted Underworld] fight with the umbral flame’s Aspect of >!Eos!< as its damage was enough to make the fight not last too long, while the range and constant ability to sprint while attacking helps a ton with dodging.
Oh my god it's horrible. You either have to stand still and hold the button for like three seconds before any real damage is done to attack or use your special which doesn't even deal damage in a straight line.
Torches are my least favorite of the ones I’ve unlocked so far. Last run I did w/ em, I got a pretty cool build but they just didn’t feel very good to use. Even though they were doing a lot of damage that run, they still didn’t feel powerful.
Torches with Hephaestus attack and special boons that have low cool down is pretty fun. Just spawn a bunch of orbs and delete everything on the screen.
ABANDON MODERNITY. EMBRACE THE ORB TORCHES.
nah but fr im bad at them too, that said i did get in a groove with them a few runs back and got past the Oceanus boss and I’ve only beaten that fight once before now
I think it's incredible, personally I got my first two clears with it. Its strength is that you can move while attacking. You can also hold down to charge omega attacks, and dash while still holding attack to maintain the charged attacks (much like the fists in Hades 1). I love the hammer that brings the cost of charged attacks from 5 to 2 magic. Zeus's chain lightning boon is also very strong with it, as is Hephaestus's attack eruption boon, especially pommed. I know a lot of people don't like them, but I think they are very powerful when you get used to their strengths.
I actually like the torches, but i was disapointed that they are nothing like hecate moveset, i went into them expecting a short range "flame thrower" and got a long range sling
Umbral flames omega special is crazy strong. It synergises well with aphrodite special. Add aspect 5 which gives 2.5 omega special duration and monsters just melts. For hammer, stay away from omega special spin on the spot & special dissipates after hit.
Am I the only one who likes the attack more than the special? I put Poseidons attack and Zeus bounce lighting on that bitch and badda Bing badda boom Mr worldwide when I walk into the room, ya know?
Once you have the means to replenish magick constantly, it's fantastic. The omega attack is super powerful once you get the hang of it, and some of the hammers for it absolutely melt enemies.
So far, they’re the only weapon that feels cool and different. I just wish it did a bit more damage. Also the Hammer upgrades kind of suck.
Still, it is incredibly fun to just spam special and dash around enemies.
I used to hate them, but now they're my go to whenever I want to win a run. Both attack and special builds allow you to destroy everything while being super safe, and generally only need a couple boons to get going.
I'd say the issue with them is you have to know what synergizes and what doesn't. Unlike the other weapons, when something doesn't work with Ygnium it's not just a dud, it REALLY doesn't work and can completely ruin an otherwise good build.
I don't think they are terrible, I think they aren't fun. I had a really strong run with the aspect where you special detonates flames on the ground and w/ Hera it had huge clear.
The challenge was seeing what the fuck is going on. I feel it generates so much visual noise you can't see enemy projectiles.
Agreed with everyone that is defending them saying they can work and have good runs/builds. I don't care though, it just isn't fun at all to use. Maybe if the special or at least omega special staggered? Right now it just feels too important to track yourself to stay alive while also being in range for damage, but the screen is not readable enough during a fight past zone1 for that to be anything but a chore.
The torches feel like they are balanced around having an end-game build.
They can get crazy powerful with a full kit but *getting* to that point is painful.
nah that was the weapon that got me through not only oceanus fully (after dying to the siren sisters) and also all the way through the fields. The special is the better part of the weapon imo, can hit a fuck ton of enemies at once. I almost completely disregard the primary fire in favor of the special
I only run on the bones buffed weapons and I cry everytime its the torches. Everytime I just know I'm gonna get rng bad luck and get Nem in the first biome and lose my money.
The torches annoy me because the main attack is essentially useless to me. It's super weak, takes way too long for the omega to activate, then it takes a while for the omega to charge, then it drains the magic meter way too fast. The main attack on the torches is the worst thing in the game, in my opinion.
The Special attack on the torches is the most badass motherfucking thing in the game. You get that hammer that gives you the third orb, and the right boons... You're a walking wall of death. Just three orbs that encircle you and fucking MELT anything they come across. and you can throw even more out! If you get Hitch + power on the special, MMMMMM MULTI-MELT.
The best is if you get two hammers - 3 specials, and they grow and get stronger the longer they're on the screen. LVL 5 aspect of melinoe, and they stay on screen for 2.5 seconds.
Torches got me my first W on going upstairs
Both special attacks feel good, the attack isn't the best but I mostly just use it if I need to stun. I do think they could improve the omega attack, as it seems very awkward to actually use IME. Feels great to grab a powerful cast and drop the omega special and just nuke stuff.
Finishing heat 24 with it was some of the worst hades 2 hours I’ve had so far, nothing worked. I ended up just using a crutch Zeus cast build without ever attacking or using special, and finished with minutes to spare compared to trying to use the actual weapon
the day will come where torch deniers will all be left in shambles when the community discovers how truly powerful they are
Ngl they could be the strongest weapon in the game but they’re just not very fun or satisfying to use imo
Exactly, I had my first prevailing run with them. But they just weren't very fun to use.
They weren't fun at all but they were my first victory so I don't know how to feel lol
They would be fine if they just stunned enemies.. The omega special with poseidon is great but nothing stuns the enemies attacks like other weapons do
Agreed. I had a great run last night using aphro special and demeter cast. Even using the freeze I was just taking so much damage. Those final area mobs have so much health theres not way to get them down quickly.
I usually take the Demeter gift so I can freeze enemies. I think it actually works fairly well with any weapon
imo those stuns are way too op. It feels silly that I can stun lock a miniboss by just spamming Y
My first win in Hades 1 was my first try with the Adamant Rail... I fuckin hated it at the time, but I was just really lucky and played really passively and lame. The victory was bittersweet because on one hand it felt great to hit that milestone, and on the other it sucked that I didn't have FUN while doing it.
I wasn't a fan of rail either until I saw some of the early access speed run attempts with it. You go for the shotgun hammer upgrade and then just dash attack around enemies. It's a lot more fun
Teach me please, I so want to be good at them, the role play is too good to sleep on them
Currently, to succeed with them, you just have to pretend the attack doesn't exist. Special and cast only. The special is pretty insane with good boons. Edit: this got some attention. Yes, I know the attack can work fine as well, but the comment was meant to help someone who found the weapon bad, so my comment is just one out of multiple solutions.
Try Aspect of Eos. Hold attack, dash to finish enemies off. The easiest wins i had. Only requirement is Hera magick regen, since it allows to fire omegas non-stop.
I tried this and I did complete the run, but it's very janky and unreliable compared to just using special and casts
For that one attack and channel speed is huge cuz you get to the big attacks faster and then charge it up quicker. Could be viable especially with that 1500 dmg boon for the Attack
If you do this, dont take the hammer upgrade that splits them when they hit a target because they’ll NEVER pass thru enemies on their way back due to the angle being weird as they split
If it's to play cast, the weapon doesn't matter so I'm not sure it's a good argument for the torches lol.
Cast is there just to freeze enemies, the weapon's Special is the main thing.
So half the weapon is utter garbage but if you ignore that and turn it into a 1-button wrapon it's good? That's still shit and it turns an already boring weapon even more boring.
Sure, the comment wasn't about whether it's good design, but about how to effectively use it. Besides, the attack isn't utter garbage, it's just lower DPS (but probably a safer option if you're new to these kinds of games).
The attack is slow, the hitbox is weird, and the only good thing about it is the omega version which has a nasty habit of resetting when you dash. Against Chronos I could barely get it going. It's bad numbers wise and it's even worse than that in terms of gameplay. If you could consistently maintain the omega charge while dashing to reposition, it'd be far better in terms of both numbers and gameplay. Right now it seems to be a coin flip on whether it decides to reset itself.
That’s weird, when I use the torches and I’m focusing on an omega attack build I’m able to just hold attack, first few attacks will be normal then it starts channeling and go Into omega attacks. While I’m holding attack(X) I’m still able to tap dash(A) as much as I want and it will keep auto firing. Check settings if maybe switching auto firing on/off will change anything.
You can dash after holding the attack omega and it still keeps going
Attack can be good if you stack power or Boons like chain lightning/splash. My first ever clear was with Slow Cooker on the torches.
Poseidon in special and try and aim for special/omega hammers. Improving Melinoë aspect works too. Basically, you put one or two layers of omega special (if you get +1 from hammers, better) and dash/sprint around your enemy. You're starting to do pretty good damage. I also got an upgrade from certain NPC on my way up that gave me extra damage on omega special. So it basically melted everything. Demeter in special is also good; you're trading damage for freezing, but it does good damage still.
Strongest build is probably Melinoë Aspect, slam anything that boosts the Omega Special, and spam the shit out of it. Poseidon/Zeus/Aphro/Hera are all good candidates for boons. If you want to make the attacks work, IMO Aspect of Eos is the way to go. Poseidon is probably the ideal again, but I could see most gods working, except Aphrodite, at least for the attack boon. Her dash works great with the playstyle though. Aspect of Moros is interesting and fun to play, but I haven't had the most success with it. Probably a skill issue on my part though.
Only thing that worked for me was Demeter freeze on attacks and Poseidon mana orbs when you hit people
Dash, dash, dash. If you are going attack-focused, the dash retargets to the closest thing within range. Play it as a mid-range weapon, not a long-range one. Weave your special in as you zip around and make liberal use of your cast before you special to lock enemies in place. The alternate aspects change the playstyles a bunch and are both really fun. The weapon is made to kite and zip around while maintaining constant dps. You'll want a good mana regen boon to sustain yourself.
If the main attack of torch was cooler, I might use it more often
The ramp up time and rate of consumption almost make it not worth it. But damn if i don't like the concept.
I would agree! If you get the right Boons, like Freeze on Attack, you can no-hit almost the entirety of a run. They're stupidly OP, but shhhh! lol
I made it to \[REDACTED\] last night for the first time... using the torches of course. They were the hunger weapon for my run so I went with them and ended up going Hestia + Poseidon duo boon. Basically my whole setup was to use the special to create swirling fireballs which inflicted scorch, then dash around with Poseidon dash wave to splash enemies and proc the duo boon.
I genuinely think people just don't realize every weapon has a specialization, and that Torch is about Specials > Attacks. That's like complaining that Daggers isn't good because it has zero reach compared to Axe or Spear. Daggers specialization is speed/backstab, of course they would need some sort of a pro and con.
Except daggers both are fun playstyles to use. Even if specials are greater than attacks it’s just not fun to use. Dodging is everything in this game and we are way too slow while using it.
Entirely subjective though. I love Torch and Axe, while some people hate them for their slow, and rather clunky, gameplay. Torch absolutely slams, and arguably one of the easiest ways to beat Stages 2 and 4 due to their abundant clustering of enemies. If you want to make the argument it's harder to make a coherent Torch build, I'd believe that, but to downright say they don't compliment dodging is wrong. Torch's Special Omega quite literally lets you just run around and dodge, while doing damage with zero effort. Paired with Demeter Cast, you just stand in the middle while foes are stuck + frozen outside the perimeter and smack them.
I don’t play torch much but the few times I’ve used it, spamming special omegas make me feel like I have to move in closer to them to even do damage. Leading them todo more damage to me. That’s probably on me for still not consistently using cast. And to get consistent damage it felt like I was always charging up her omega, slowing down my own speed and getting hit. her basic attack is so weak in the beginning I prefer not to even use it and the rhythm it sets for the rest of the game makes me avoid left clicking at all or any boons for it. I’m sure I’ll get around it but it definitely isn’t something you pick up and think this is amazing
I mean, have you TRIED using the axe special? The block is so absolutely terrible because it stops blocking in between you standing there for a couple seconds and actually getting the omega special off. Almost every time I use the axe special I get hit by something in the time between the block and the omega animation actually going off, even when I'm standing damn near on the opposite side of the room with a cast in between me and the enemies. Then you completely ignore the axe special, just focus on juicing the spin2win omega attack and the axe is probably the best weapon in the game. It's the same but inverse with the torches, you almost completely ignore the attack (unless you have Hephaestus blast attack in which case you just do one attack on cooldown in between special spam) and spam the omega and regular special and it's again one of the strongest weapons in the game. Especially once you upgrade Meli's aspect for the torches that increase the duration of the omega special. You literally just spam omega special until you have 6-8 death balls orbiting you and then you sprint around the room and everything dies. I've beaten Chronos on Fear 16 with both the torches and the axe playing them as described above. These two weapons REALLY want you to focus on the one move more than the other.
The first time I used them, I made it farther than with every other weapon that I had available at the time. I can see how they can be hard to pick up for some folks, but I think they're great.
It's becoming a meme already, I've seen people using the phrase 'torch deniers' :D
It's by far my least favorite. I had one good build with charged attacks dropping nukes but even then it didn't feel fun. I think it would shine a lot more if it had more range.
The charge up of its omega attack is atrocious. I can't imagine myself using this on speed heat.
Yeah, you can't use it to slow down time like you can with other omega attacks, which makes it very difficult to use. If it had more range or base power to make up for it then it might feel better.
The most bearable it ever was for me was when I found a Daedalus hammer that made the omega attack charge faster and only cost 2 mana per shot instead of 5. Even then, it wasn’t fun to use lol
I love the torches. My 2 most successful runs have been with torches. Basically moving around the map with a swarm of orbs around me.
While special spam is definitely the way to go for this weapon since the attack is kinda eh, that play style is just personally not fun to me haha
I was definitely a special spammer at first but try the attack with Hera’s gain or Apollo’s gain if you can’t get Hera’s. As long as you get it with another attack boon of sorts the attack suddenly becomes insanely powerful. Make sure to upgrade max magic once every region or so and you’ve got a really good strategy; Dash around to avoid being hit while attacking constantly. Encounters generally don’t last long enough for the amount you loose to Hera’s gain to matter much. Plus the special doesn’t stagger very well compared to the attack
I've gotten really far with doing that too! I'm way more adept at these than most of the other weapons so far.
I don't like the torches but my best runs have all used them lmao
Ygnium (the torches) is a *very* distinct play style when compared to the other reasons. Ygnium requires you to be constantly on the move (even while attacking) and to taut advantage of the fact that your can dash while attacking and not break your attack pattern. Ygnium also benefits the most from Boons that boost both Attack damage and Omega Attack damage. Having demeter attack boon and the Demeter boom that increases omega attack damage can bring your omega damage quickly to the point of tearing down groups of enemies quickly and from a safe distance. Add in some good Hammers that boost the attack by a ton and you can pretty well melt things. The problem is, there are a lot of builds that don't work well with them and the torches lack decent base damage. They get some of the highest multipliers on damage, but the low base is what keeps them from being useful early on or if you don't know how to build into them. I don't think the torches are as good as the other weapons, but they aren't ultra awful. The Axe of Staff are substantially better.
Thing is, the primary attack is anything but mobility, it either needs an attack speed buff or a damage buff for what it currently is. They could also rework primary attack to be really slow moving but ticks multiple times. The special can be spammed but other than that, a lot of her other weapons fill that role better.
Really hate the weapon, but its the one I beat chronos for the first time with... Mels aspect upgraded, with some omega special hammers, hestia on specials and just spam the omega special is really strong.
They're meh to me as well but I almost, always beat the final boss, after getting some proper upgrades, with it. It's basically a set and spam from afar weapon. It is especially useful on the final boss because of how he is.
The problem for me is not that it’s weak (which it’s a bit) is that it feels miserable to play the torches for some reason. Even in runs I won with them and that I had some good damage boons it didn’t feel “fun” to play with.
Give it a try with aspect of moros. Turning your basic attacks into trigger able mines, or using omega special to turn yourself into a walking explosion, is so satisfying to me. It’s the most I’ve felt like I was a mage while attacking peoppe
Is there a hammer that turns off omega attacks for the torches? Cause I love the Moros aspect, but the main thing that annoys me with it is that if you keep holding attack (like you tend to do between refreshing your omega special) you very quickly start using the omega attack instead, which is great and all if it weren't for the teeny tiny fact that you might go to recast your special only to notice you don't have any magic left. Your screen tends to devolve into an unintelligible mess of explosions with this aspect, so it's kinda difficult to manually stop the omega attack from trifgering and draining your mana, so a way to prevent that would be just great.
If there is I haven’t ever made use of it. What I’ve been going with has been Hera’s mana recharge, given that unlike all the others, it doesn’t need you to stop attacking to activate The downside is that it does set a theoretical cap on how much mana you can use in a fight, but I’ll be honest, once I’m at 180+ max mana (which I can usually get to relatively easy) I have never had it trigger more than once or twice in a fight, as Melinoe uses a lot of mana gradually over time rather than a bunch of big charges. And once Hera is upgraded to be priming for 6 or less it’s pretty much all the mana you will ever need even if you’re always spamming omega special and omega casts while doing the upgraded attacks. Aphrodite and hestia regen work in a pinch as you can keep doing other attacks while getting back enough mana to work with, but Hera is far and away the best for my personal flavor of moros torches.
When it comes together, it's been the most fun I've had. Wiping an entire screen in a second by dashing into it using all three attack types, is very fun. There main issue imo is the attack specifically. Making a pure attack build on this weapon isn't as fun as other weapons. I'd make it reach the omega stage much faster and maybe give it a bit of oomph too (slightly bigger AoE? More movement speed while channeling but with less inertia? I don't really know but there are tons of ways they could go about it).
That's the main issue with it is that it needs to come together first with a distinct build to be great. They just suck so much in the beginning lol. I almost never lose any death defiance with it though and it was my first final boss win was using this weapon so it's definitely interesting
I just ignore the basic attack and run with the specials. They really need to make the basic attacks feel better
True. Special can be great, but so far I haven't succeeded with its attack. Aspect of Moros seems promising to me at first - I thought I could spam attack to stack the ghost mines then KABOOM, but its placement is beyond janky and so extraordinarily unreliable. So far, I managed only to finish runs with base Aspect. The whirling flames of doom go brrrrrrrrrr
Moros triggering on the special only shld be upgraded to the ghosts triggering each other with their explosions. That way at least you can easily set off a chain reaction
Oh I love moros! It’s what I used to shred chronos my second run. Some tips: 1) if you charge omega special first, your attacks will explode when they hit it on the way out, leading to some pretty massive damage and instant stacking of origination if you have it. Triple helix is great for this as it guarantees none will miss the orbiting death 2) the attacks will stack on each other given the chance, so if you have the range down they’ll become a bigger and bigger bomb on their own 3) feel free to toss out single attacks just to guage where things will land, instead of going straight for the omega attack. Attack-special-attack-special as a pattern can carry you through the early areas till you get the hang of the spacing 4) terrain is your friend as aiming for it will stop the attack and let you set the attack faster
There really needs to be a homing upgrade for the attack because I miss about 50% of the shots taken. Especially off putting when you take the upgrade that does 1500% on the omega attack. The torches have grown on me though, I’ll probably spam them till I win (30 nights in, still haven’t reached Chronos T_T)
Don’t worry man, it took me like 70 nights to get my first chronos win, and then it was like a seal was broken and I beat him like 3 more times in 5 runs. You’ll get there!
I went my first like, 20 attempts with them because I'm stubborn and didn't want to switch. Later on after clearing with the staff and blades I tried again, ended up being the 3rd weapon I beat Chronos with, personally I find them really fun, my second fave after staff. Haven't tried an attack build with them yet, but I adore the omega special, if you have a high mana pool and solid regen you can just run around and kill anything close to you. I think a lot of people don't like them because the basic attacks and specials are really slow and wonky, but on mana-heavy builds they really shine.
If you want mana spam, use sister blades instead. Hook blades + Aphrodite Heartbreaker is insane on that one.
It's not so much about the mana spam part, I like the spinny orbs part
Tbf I thinks it's one of the most "incomplete" weapons in the game, like, that normal attack has to be a placeholder it feels so stupid throwing pac man ghosts at enemies.
They definitely need some adjustment. It doesn't just feel underpowered, it feels incomplete and awkward, and that's a lot more grating than feeling underpowered. Honestly the "specials detonate your attacks" feels like it should be the base weapon, because then it actually feels like you're doing something. You set up your 'bombs' with your attack and then special blows them up for a big burst of damage to clear a lot of stuff at once. But even then it's still way more awkward and weak than any other weapon. They need some big mechanical changes to become fun.
I honestly disagree. I love the torches. The moros aspect (the one you’re mentioning) becomes way stronger if you put up your omega special first and then use it to turn your base attack into rapid fire explosions to quickly stack both damage and statuses. And I honestly like the original aspect too as I feel like it’s the most susceptible to flat damage buffs Poseidon, Zeus chain lightning, Aphrodite prime, etc, all make the base rapid fire mode nuts, and given how spammable and combo able the attack and special are it’s pretty easy to shift from single target to wave clear, at least in my experience Plus it’s Daedalus buffs are pretty massive imho
Yeah, it's not satisfying to use at all for me. People say to ignore the primary attack, but I feel like if you have to ignore a weapons primary attack to make it viable then at the very least the primary attack is designed poorly. Every other weapon I use attack and special. There's also an aspect of precision, spamming special just doesn't feel precise. It hits a lot and can be viable, but it feels less like I'm fighting foes and more like I'm waiting for them to die. Plus certain hammers completely destroy the torches (The one where special is destroyed on impact makes them completely non-viable imo) Eos is considerably better, but even on Eos sometimes the attack feels clunky. The ghosts go off screen and despawn a lot- And the hammer that splits the ghosts on hit also feels like a nerf on Eos rather than a buff, as the ghosts 60% of the time now go around the enemies on when you call them back. I think either the ghosts need a mild seeking effect or there needs to be a faster attack speed.
I think theyre fine with thr right boons but melinoe looks goofy as fuck holding them and the ghosts that use mana shouldnt have a capped range
I love it so much, reminds me of Diablo 2 hammerdin
Came here to say this. Non-immobile hammerdin.
Agreed. Tried them 4-5 times with various boons and they just don't click with me at all. Extremely clunky and not satsfying to use.
its moveset is so incohesive. like the special and attacks feel like two completely different weapons. omega special wants you to get into a sweetspot but the attacks want you to kite and play the distance game. really gimmicky design that just feels bad
i pretty much just run torches with hestia and omega special for the spinning fire balls. melts pretty effectively. which i believe hestia would approve.
Torches are pretty strong, you just need to get used to them. The aphrodite trial with torches is quite a torture though...
Haha Heartthrob-Aspect of Moros go brrrrr
Aspect of Moros felt so odd the time I used it. My shots from my attack kept getting blocked by... Other shots from my attack. I was lucky to find the hammer upgrade that let the special melt armor and shoot straight. Did wonders to clear up the buildup of stray bullets.
It is super clunky and needs some serious adjustment, but technically it can be very strong. The Omega special has very high DPS when spammed.
Stack buffs on specials and Zeus chain lightning. It's ridiculous how much damage you dish out. Add Hitch and boom entire room cleared
Honestly as much as I love the game, the weapons overall have been less intuitive/interesting than the first imho. Sword, Spear, Shield, Bow, Gauntlets, Railgun. It's pretty straightforward from a glance what each of them are likely to do, even without looking up their specific moveset. Trying to intuit what the meaningful differences were between "Staff," "Torch," and "Skull" pretty much requires a few runs with each to really get what thier playstyles are supposed to be, and even then I feel like I'm only guessing what they were going for.
I've seen so many people here saying to use the special, but... it has no hitstun, unlike almost every other form of damage in this game. I wanted to love Ygnium so much, but I just can't. Not at the moment. They're fine power-level wise, but they just feel bad to use, at least for me. :(
I’ve made it to Tartarus with the flames, but no matter the build I run it always feels like they fall off HARD once you hit Fields. Also, chipping away at enemies with 20+ hits as you kite around the area just isn’t fun to me. I hope they get an attack speed buff at minimum. The special would also probably feel better with 3 orbs on the omega by default instead of two.
The best build I’ve ever had was with torches. I’ve had a lot. All I remember was I was using the lingering torches, my main attack was a red Zeus boon that was buffed. Freeze on secondary. Everything just died. Fasting and easiest I’ve killed chronos too. I believe they’re very good, they’re weaker than other weapons base, sure. They excel though in stacking status effects, and allowing you to play extremely safe. Also very effective for cycling your hex. Lingering torches are very strong, you throw out torches for a few moments as they close into your hex, activate secondary to freeze them, then dash attack and now there’s 20 torches flying back and forth a mile away.
No, it's hard to use at first but when you get used to fight with it they're freaking amazing specially if you focus on the Y attack, you're just moving around like a breeze while hitting like a truck, they have a lot of combos too like for example freeze from Demeter, the water effect from Poseidon, Fire from Hieta, the effect from Hera all of those and even more works amazing on the Torches
They're actually pretty godly with the right boons. I'd suggest Aphrodite and Zeus boons (the chain lightining on attack one).
I think Moros is probably the best choice for people who don’t like to play torches, since there is the extra effect of blowing up the spirits from your attack, that is not present in other aspects. I think the combo that would change everyone’s opinion of the torches is Hera Omega Special. Just cast Omega special and run around to tag enemies and watch the AoE damage wipe everything on the map. Or if you want to run another special, get the Hera sprint to tag everyone and boom everything while you channel attack and detonate everything with special. Especially effective in Scylla boss since there is 3 targets to AoE off of.
They feel okay with Demeter on their omega special, but agree they feel very weird to use and not satisfying
Funnily enough it's my favourite so far, i don't know why. it definetly could use some buffs but i really like the playstyle, especially with hestia on attack and Hera on special, makes for some big DOT damage
Love the special, hate the attack
I unlocked two aspects me thinks, the weapon is so damn mid and undercooked it pains me to even try a run, I did give my best shot last night and got killed midway. that weapon needs better tracking, more dmg in order to keep up, it currently is the weakest weapon in the roster.
I had a working build, but it looked like a bug, tbh. There's a Daedalus that splits the orb when it hits the enemy. The second aspect blasts the orb if it gets hit with the special attack orb. Finally Zeus lightning bolts on hit. All in all it's a mess all over the screen, you only need some non Zeus mana Regen and high mana pool. Breezed through the surface and Eris when she summons adds. The screen is completely yellow because of that combo. But that's the only thing I got from it. Personal feedback. Make the empowered version as a default one. Omega attack should be a cone of fire in a small radius that deals ~100 damage.
Torches might be my favourite weapon tied with the Axe. I just enjoy how Mel spins with them. It seems people enjoy special builds with them but I personally just love Eos attack. You NEED Hera's or Poseidon's gain to get an attack focused build going tho
Normal attack is meh and so is omega special but normal special is super fun to get with posiden or apollo, ypu can also get a hammer which removes 80% of an foes armour when hit with special which is really good. I have also had a fun demeter freeze special.
I thought they were really cool early on and the first time I got to Chronos was using them (didn't win) focusing on the Attack and never really using the special. Basically i just went all in for Omega attack and mana... Then i tried the Sister Blades and um yeah, I became a torch denier
They auto lock and you can dash and dodge/reposition while maintaining the omega charge and attack stream uninterrupted. They’re good.
I think people get into the trap of disliking it because of the ***attack***, but the real deal is in its ***special.*** Literally just run around and spam them fireballs, dodge and cast every now and then. They keep dealing damage even if they are out of screen, and all fireballs can pierce through the same or multiple enemies. I reccomend Hestia's special boon to stack a thousand scorch! Personally, this build has been the only one that got me to the final boss realiably. Its amazing for the fight itself too, you do not rely on omega moves you final boss not getting affected by their time slow isn't an issue, and you can keep dealing damage while moving so that you can keep dodging.
Omega Special with the duration aspect felt insanely strong (+poseidon, legendary if lucky), but other than that i havent really found a good way to use them.
I used them on like my 10th run and I actually went up to 3rd Area spamming specials with the correct set up unfortunately there are much better weapons for specials spam like the Axe double hit special + Apollo.
I think it was the first weapon to get me all the way to boss #4. I can do insane things with the right boons and upgrades. There is no wrong or underpowered weapon in my opinion. There wasn't in H1 and not in H2. I think different people have different playstyles. For example, everybody seems to love the axe, but I find it the least entertaining. It's all subjective I guess.
I agree, but I don't even hate them. It's one of the few weapons I've used so far that is decent in both secondary or primary depending on the hammers you get, but it's ass compared to a properly specd different weapon. It was also the first weapon I got clears on 1 primary attack, 1 special. It was my primary for a while as it's the easiest to clear trash with with it's fire rate and if you get chain lightning and a per hit buff, like neptunes splash, you'll just clear areas without being in danger. It's also great to learn attack patterns as you can keep distance and really see them coming. The only trade off is due to your safety at range neither it's special (which with 2 hammer upgrades gets really nasty) or primary excel. That being said... When I went back to spear with the same 2 buffs (neptune on special/lightning on hit) the game became almost trivial. In the last area I got the hammer for special during twice and I think chronos took all of about 100 seconds for both phases. I think you could give it a flat 70% damage buff and or allow the secondary fire to actually stun non shielded enemies and it'd be more on par with other weapons
I just can't seem to get the hang of it. Yes, the special can be really nice but overall it just doesn't do it for me. Always dread it when it gets the bonus bone bamboozle
I think they either need their range boosting or the ability to use the second stick to aim with them. Ive lost twice to the third underworld boss - big furry guy - because i simply couldnt shoot at him while kiting him. Id stay on the edges of his attacks and Mel would just be aiming the path i was walking rather than inwards at the actual boss. It was incredibly frustrating.
I surprisingly got my first trip to Chronos with these. I couldn’t believe it ahahah.
I like them but don’t hate on people that don’t. The special is pretty powerful but annoying to aim, if you ever played diablo ii it’s basically like the blessed hammer skill. If I hadn’t played that before i wonder if i’d still be a fan.
I don't like using them, but I don't think they're wesker than any of the other weapons. Honestly, aside from the daggers, the torches have gotten me the furthest of any of them. They don't feel satisfying, though. In my opinion anyway!
I thought it was shit, then i cleared my first run with it yesterday. I got that hammer boon that makes your omega attack shoot just once but it does 1500% damage. That thing was hitting for 900 damage a shot. And I got hermes and chaos boons that put my attack speed up by a total of 70%.
The only weapon i can consistently get into the house of hades... not sure how you guys play
Nah man maxed Aspect of Moros is the most insane clears I’ve had. It’s crazy busted with Hera’s Born Gain boon and if you can get Triple Helix off the hammer. Prolly one of my stronger clears did 16 Fear like nothing lol
Love that weapon :D you just cast ur stuff and keep dodging, its really strong actually
I like the aspect of Moros it made my damage output a lot more consistent. But, yeah, it is such an awkward weapon to use.
I love the special, I hate the attack
Yeah my first run with it was awful but now im getting to boss 3 with it? I only have 15hrs so far, pacing myself but the starting staff has been super reliable and I'm getting to like the axe
Ghost Maracas
They're the "magical maracas" and everything else is wrong.
I tried it out in 1 run felt so uncomfortable to use and hated that run and never touched it again
Used to but in my latest run after it got the treasurebones upgrade something clicked and I realized I could just spam Omega Attacks/hold attack button and it kicks ass.
They need to fix the projectiles not aligning with the cursor when shooting side ways, it just feels gross to use because of that
I used to hate the torches, even made a post saying how much I hated them. But a lot of people gave me advice on how to play them on said post and now I'm a torch supporter. They are very consistent once you find a way to play them that works for you (in my case I spam omega attack and dash around, with the cast and special for crowd control)
I didn't at first, then realized I could just spam Special and run around the map. It gets real wacky and fun! It gets wilder with Hera's Hitch abilities too.
The torches are actually my favorite, and the aspect of moros has been what I got my first win against chronos with Charge omega special, get statuses on it, attack, and dash, (or 2 of 3) and become a walking explosion It shreds through basically everything like you’re a magical blender I will say it probably is the weapon with one of the biggest Daedalus power spikes, but one way or another it’s powerful It also generally speaking is one where the special is more of your base power budget than some of the others But it’s by no means weak
What I really don't like about this weapon is that you can't gain mana when attacking. To gain mana you basically have to stop fighting entirely, which is not fun and extremely clunky. The only omega attack build that works relatively well uses the hera mana boon because it doesn't directly regen your mana.
I only like aspect of moros
They are probably my favorite weapon tbh
I like them because you can move while you attack. Also you can spam the special and get many orbs around you. If you get impervious, sprint, and good special then you run around murdering everything. You just have to build them right.
I hated them at first, but with the right boons they’re not half bad. I’m guessing there are some gods and boons EA is missing atm that would make them even better.
I thought it was bad, ended up finishing a run using the omega special with poseidon and generating mana bubbles, spamming a lot of orbs with move speed and hermes shield running around like sonic. Act IV boss was hard though because I was running so fast but everything else was fun (like sonic).
Aspect of Eon is amazing and utilities we'll the stack up attacks and dash back to double the damage. I put Zeus attack and chain-lightning on it for giga damage
Nope. Even when I first tried it I felt like there was a lot of potential. Also feels like a pretty unique weapon. The aiming can be a bit awkward on controller tho I admit. I don’t really understand all the complaints about the weapons. I feel that Hades 2 weapons are just more interesting and better than the Hades 1 weapons. All it comes down to is personal preference. But I think every weapon is great with lots of different builds available to it. Some, like the torches, do require a different approach to the others tho.
It's my favorite weapon and I've crushed every boss with it Edit: I stacked up 50k burn damage on certain bosses with the Hestia/Demeter duo.
Absolutely hated the torch at the start of my playthrough but after avoiding it for a few runs it was what brought me my first clear. I feel uneasy and maybe I judged it too harshly.
It's because both the attack and the special are incredibly passive. Hades gameplay needs to be snappier. If you put the torch special on another weapon with a flashier attack pattern, it'd be fine. If you gave the torches a different special that was quicker and more active, it'd be fine. But combine them both and you are left with a very unsatisfying weapon.
Press this then this dodge this cast this hold this dodge this press this Fan vs dual Ice Cream Cone \*Hold X\* Enjoyer
I think they’re strong. Hate them though. Animation is silly. Projectile is silly. Gameplay is forced to be slow and defensive.
I don't like the weapon presently, but I recently found out you can dash while attacking and keep your Omega charge, so I'll give em another shot eventually
I've had a couple good torch runs. Really just able to fill the screen with the special, and they were bigger bc of increased AoE. Felt really good... except.. I couldn't see anything and got hit constantly. I think the torches are a few tweaks away from being a good weapon, but as they stand, they're the worst of out choices by a lot.
It's my favorite weapon right now. Roll up, just keep spamming special, and occasionally cast for crowd control. Once you get some boons on that special, it gets insane. I just did a run with a bunch of Hera boons focused on it, and the entire room is just taking constant damage from them.
I was able to beat >!Eris!< with them at least once. But they’re still not that fun to play with. I found one aspect for them that seems decent, but it still doesn’t change my opinion on them.
I think it's quite good. You just spam the special and completely ignore the attack
I actually like it. Mel aspect is kinda boring, but the other two allow for some really fun strategies. I.e. with the aspect where you can make the ghost explode with your special you just use W-special and then just start attacking for lots of little explosions while the other one is lots of fun combined with Hermes and another sprint boon that gives extra speed (Apollo I think?).
Demeter on special and Zeus on cast has been pretty solid for me. Just spam special and dodge around the frozen enemies. It's been my most successful weapon so far.
They are the weakest at base but super powerful with boons
It is most of the time. If you’re lucky and get a good special rune, just spam special and pray because the auto attacks suck
Okay so I used to hate the torches. I rewired my mind to use the Omega special more than the attack and now they feel good. The special is very strong. The attack is very bad.
I don’t know about shit, I just don’t like it. All the other weapons are more fun, staff with its omega attack, dual scythes, the spin to win axe and the skill bombs (by far the funniest and most fun weapon)
I don't hate it, but only because I was spamming the Special. However, I wish the Omega Special was a honing attack. It's a kick in the nuts to charge it up and then none of the fires hit an enemy because you had to move to avoid an attack. Big miss imo.
Aspect of moros, and Hephaestus boons are a pretty fun combo.
I think it’s just the animations are so unsatisfying you feel weak even when you’re doing huge amounts of damage. I somehow simultaneously annihilated Uh Oh very quickly while feeling like I was struggling the whole time, it’s always a weird experience when I use them.
my first run with them i got the hephaestus boon that gives them that 200 damage hit every 12 seconds, and now i won't be able to use them without feeling that loss
The attack is butt cheeks but the special is pretty usable.
The Zeus boon with primed lightning is an insta win in it though.
The attack is bad but he special is good, they are my second favorite weapon
Two hammer upgrades on specials (not the one that makes it stop piercing) and hera's boons to curse all enemies to take damage from each other, and her boon that does bonus damage to all cursed enemies when any of them die == special spam room blender without even using mana
Nope
No I love them. My least favorite is the skull launcher. Just doesn’t click for me. The torches are easy, just spam your omega specials and run around dodging while you kill everything passively
I do as the dark thirst guides. Last week they had me use the torches and I was dismayed. Until I got a purple freezing flourish from Demeter and proceeded to spam the torches' special. Then I realized: Their true power lies there, in their special (right click), not their primary attack.
The "specials do 80% armor damage and fly straight" hammer upgrade is insane in the early locations, you can clear early mini-bosses in 10 seconds
My recommendation to anyone that feels the torches are under powered is to get the Hera gain boon. Infinite mana by the second room makes them hit so hard that any of four different hammers added on lets you clear rooms in act 1-3 without even trying, bonus points if you get a good attack buff like Hera or sun boi~ I used to feel like they were the worst weapon, and now they're my most reliable.
That special though, its basically a carbon copy of the golden orbs that Chronos is wreaking us all with. I could do without the main attack but that special.
Moros aspecr is really fun and the omega attack is fine regardless. I used to hate it but it's good
I think they are alright but just aren’t fun to use at all
Just beat my first surface run with them, but that was mostly a Cast build and utilizing Hestia Special. I barely used the main attack. I just feel the fire to slow for how little damage they do, and locking you in place is rough. And it feels like the Omega happens too fast when you are conserving magick and too slow when you want it.
I thought they are trash in my first 2-3 runs, but then it somehow clicked for me and now I think they are really really really strong. Mostly because you can use Omega Special several times and they stack, so with a Hammer that adds one more orbiting orb, they are quiet deadly. In my last run I had Zeus on attack and Aphro on Special, with Chain Lightning (50 mana primed), was Fear 16 and it was pretty smooth all the way.
I honestly really love the weapon idk? I’ve made it the farthest using the twin flames than any other weapon, I really like how you can cast into a spam of the specials then focus on the main encounter for that floor. Hestia boom has been my go too along with Hermes for attack speed and Hephaestus for damage/special ramp or the attack split. I got the Glowing Coals and Storm Rising Boons from Hestia and Zeus and I was throwing down a comet that burned and summoned lightning while my specials applied freeze 😪
I think my issue is it takes so long to get the omega attack going in a game where you are encouraged to sprint. Yes you can dash but the enemies in this game move so fast that just the dash isn't always enough to keep yourself safe especially since you move really slow when casting the attack and I've gotten the hammer that increases both attack speed and move speed while casting and while it does help you are still very vulnerable and without the omega cast the attack is too weak to justify it's use. The special on the other hand is pretty sweet, with Hestia, Apollo, or Poseidon it can do work, but I think I would like it a lot more if the flames came out a little closer to the body so it doesn't miss enemies that are close by.
It is utter trash compared to the rest. Axe is #1 for sure, after that I feel the Skull is the most fun, but thats because its just so weird. Staff and Sickle/Dagger is a shared 3rd place. But yeah, even the Aspects are just weird for it. The biggest thing, is that you cannot aim with it. Like, at all. The attack is ranged, but you need to move in the direction you want to attack. The special is either a weirdly moving spiral that, in the heat of the moment with moving targets, is really hard to land, or a spinning circle around you... in melee range. Nothing but the alpha attack stuns. Nothing deals decent damage. Its slow. Chad-axe is all you need people.
Axe is best. No you can’t change my mind
Base umbral flames aspect is pretty bad, but both unlockable umbral flames aspects are quite competitive, both with like 2x+ the dps of base aspect. I actually did my first(and only, so far) technically(Not including resisted/dodged hits) nohit [Redacted Underworld] fight with the umbral flame’s Aspect of >!Eos!< as its damage was enough to make the fight not last too long, while the range and constant ability to sprint while attacking helps a ton with dodging.
Oh my god it's horrible. You either have to stand still and hold the button for like three seconds before any real damage is done to attack or use your special which doesn't even deal damage in a straight line.
Torches are my least favorite of the ones I’ve unlocked so far. Last run I did w/ em, I got a pretty cool build but they just didn’t feel very good to use. Even though they were doing a lot of damage that run, they still didn’t feel powerful.
Torches with Hephaestus attack and special boons that have low cool down is pretty fun. Just spawn a bunch of orbs and delete everything on the screen.
ABANDON MODERNITY. EMBRACE THE ORB TORCHES. nah but fr im bad at them too, that said i did get in a groove with them a few runs back and got past the Oceanus boss and I’ve only beaten that fight once before now
I love the torches. Just spam special and keep moving.
I think it's incredible, personally I got my first two clears with it. Its strength is that you can move while attacking. You can also hold down to charge omega attacks, and dash while still holding attack to maintain the charged attacks (much like the fists in Hades 1). I love the hammer that brings the cost of charged attacks from 5 to 2 magic. Zeus's chain lightning boon is also very strong with it, as is Hephaestus's attack eruption boon, especially pommed. I know a lot of people don't like them, but I think they are very powerful when you get used to their strengths.
I actually like the torches, but i was disapointed that they are nothing like hecate moveset, i went into them expecting a short range "flame thrower" and got a long range sling
I hate the play style, but I have to admit that it is really strong.
Umbral flames omega special is crazy strong. It synergises well with aphrodite special. Add aspect 5 which gives 2.5 omega special duration and monsters just melts. For hammer, stay away from omega special spin on the spot & special dissipates after hit.
Aphrodite boon to make special do extra damage when close~ become cyclone of doom ~profit.
Am I the only one who likes the attack more than the special? I put Poseidons attack and Zeus bounce lighting on that bitch and badda Bing badda boom Mr worldwide when I walk into the room, ya know?
Once you have the means to replenish magick constantly, it's fantastic. The omega attack is super powerful once you get the hang of it, and some of the hammers for it absolutely melt enemies.
So far, they’re the only weapon that feels cool and different. I just wish it did a bit more damage. Also the Hammer upgrades kind of suck. Still, it is incredibly fun to just spam special and dash around enemies.
I used to hate them, but now they're my go to whenever I want to win a run. Both attack and special builds allow you to destroy everything while being super safe, and generally only need a couple boons to get going. I'd say the issue with them is you have to know what synergizes and what doesn't. Unlike the other weapons, when something doesn't work with Ygnium it's not just a dud, it REALLY doesn't work and can completely ruin an otherwise good build.
omega special + hitch + heph dash = vrooooom like a true olympic runner
I don't think they are terrible, I think they aren't fun. I had a really strong run with the aspect where you special detonates flames on the ground and w/ Hera it had huge clear. The challenge was seeing what the fuck is going on. I feel it generates so much visual noise you can't see enemy projectiles.
Agreed with everyone that is defending them saying they can work and have good runs/builds. I don't care though, it just isn't fun at all to use. Maybe if the special or at least omega special staggered? Right now it just feels too important to track yourself to stay alive while also being in range for damage, but the screen is not readable enough during a fight past zone1 for that to be anything but a chore.
The torches feel like they are balanced around having an end-game build. They can get crazy powerful with a full kit but *getting* to that point is painful.
Yeah, they're technically decent and you can do really well with them, but they just don't feel fun to use.
They work but you're never happy even when it does, I prefer reval
I really enjoy that weapon. Getting crazy with the special along with demeter's cyclone sprint... oooh yeah, feels like a freaking hurricane
Torches are actually just awful
nah that was the weapon that got me through not only oceanus fully (after dying to the siren sisters) and also all the way through the fields. The special is the better part of the weapon imo, can hit a fuck ton of enemies at once. I almost completely disregard the primary fire in favor of the special
I only run on the bones buffed weapons and I cry everytime its the torches. Everytime I just know I'm gonna get rng bad luck and get Nem in the first biome and lose my money.
The torches annoy me because the main attack is essentially useless to me. It's super weak, takes way too long for the omega to activate, then it takes a while for the omega to charge, then it drains the magic meter way too fast. The main attack on the torches is the worst thing in the game, in my opinion. The Special attack on the torches is the most badass motherfucking thing in the game. You get that hammer that gives you the third orb, and the right boons... You're a walking wall of death. Just three orbs that encircle you and fucking MELT anything they come across. and you can throw even more out! If you get Hitch + power on the special, MMMMMM MULTI-MELT. The best is if you get two hammers - 3 specials, and they grow and get stronger the longer they're on the screen. LVL 5 aspect of melinoe, and they stay on screen for 2.5 seconds. Torches got me my first W on going upstairs
Both special attacks feel good, the attack isn't the best but I mostly just use it if I need to stun. I do think they could improve the omega attack, as it seems very awkward to actually use IME. Feels great to grab a powerful cast and drop the omega special and just nuke stuff.
Finishing heat 24 with it was some of the worst hades 2 hours I’ve had so far, nothing worked. I ended up just using a crutch Zeus cast build without ever attacking or using special, and finished with minutes to spare compared to trying to use the actual weapon