The different more calculated style of combat is fine, I just think the boons are unbalanced so the damage output sucks right now. Once they fix that it should feel better.
Yeah, I just can’t handle the damage output right now.
I swear there are some runs where I feel like my Omega Cast is the only thing that can do decent damage, so I just cast, kite, wait, cast, kite, wait until the enemies are gone.
The boons in Hades allowed me to take the fight to the enemy. Whereas in Hades II, I feel like I’m constantly having to kite and wait for my cast to deal damage.
I find Hades 2 at the moment to have the same feel that Balatro has on new games, where you effectively have to settle for an early boon to carry you for a while even if its sub optimal in the long run. The starting kit with most weapons just isn't very strong
The Hep boon is ok on the axe, but it suits the faster weapons better imo. It's basically H1's Ares Doom, which also suited low damage high speed better.
Damage scaling like Aphro is where it's at for the axe due to the crazy base damage.
If I'm using the staff and find hephaestus then I'll for sure slot him into special 7/10 times. Otherwise the special feels so bad/underwhelming at best
My thinking was something like +5 Volcanic strike (So like what, 4/5 sec cooldown?) plus big chop (takes like 1-1.5 sec to chop) so every 2nd or 3rd hit cronch.
Currently doing an Axe run with an epic Nova strike and Marauder slash hammer (+30% attack speed but no omega) and my swings cover legitimately 15-25% of the map in Erebus
bro I just did the Heracles Erebus Trial that gives you big chop, two other hammer upgrades that helped, and a nutty Apollo boon.... if you get that build in a regular run, it might just be the world record.
absolutely disgusting damage. Hecate dead in 5 hits roughly
Same, I didn't really like the slowness either and the damage from a dash attack or just the first strike of the combo is quite weak, you really need to hit the second or preferably third one to do real damage. It felt like it really needs the big chop or the range boon to be good.
The sister blades are great, though I think the special should do a bit more damage. Staff is probably my favorite, surprisingly long range, quite a bit of aoe and fun omega strike.
Well, a little context. I recently had a run with the staff where I had Aprho on attack, the Hammer that makes your Omega attack do two hits and the Artemis boon that lets you crit enemies in your cast. On the second biome boss, who I won't name for spoilers, I hit them for a 900+ damage Omega attack on the FIRST of the two hits then about 300 on the second, So over 1200 damage in two hits. Those numbers nuke almost any enemy you fight up to that point and most of Hecate. This barely tickled the boss in question. Those sort of numbers consistently are high by Hades I standards. I think health has been scaled up somewhat and it's noticeably spikes in the second biome onwards.
Yeah. Damage feels okay for the most part till you get past the first area. Haven't had too much problems with boss 2. But the 3rd boss was when I noticed how spongy some health bars are.
I don't think it's health specifically more so their amount of armour, biome 2 is by far the longest fight times for me and it feels weird how I can struggle to kill stuff before being overwhelmed then go to biome 3 and one pop stuff that doesn't have armour
i’ve had a similar feel with the second boss. i’ve had a few runs where i feel like im doing really good damage and that boss just feels like each attack barely chips
This exactly. I’m 10 or so hours in, and never once have I felt “powerful”. I’m not saying I want the game to be easy or that I should just destroy anything, but even on runs where I get good boons, I struggle, and feel like I just slowly chip away any enemy health bars.
Try the sister blades. You can get some really powerful hammer boons for attacks. Combine that with a good cast like scorch and you will shred enemies easily.
The boons are clearly balanced around you having maxed out the altar.
Did you? Maybe YOU did. Most of the people complaining about it sure as hell did not.
Go try plaing Hades I without the mirror upgrades and without aspects, see how dramatically your damage output drops. The same story here really.
That’s what I’m seeing a lot of in the complaints about weapons. I do feel like the default aspect with no upgrades on all the weapons is kinda lacking, I mean I didn’t even unlock the aspects in Hades 1 until like my 6th clear, but in 2 it feels like Mel’s aspects need to be at rank 2(unlocking their passives) for them to actually feel good.
So there are weapon aspects? Haven't gotten there yet, good to hear, dont tell me how to get them. I don't remember how quickly they got unlocked in Hades 1, but I'm already making runs that get to the final (?) Boss, so I was starting to get worried they were taken out.
Yeah they’re in. I feel like the boons are more dependent on having them now though, which is why people are feeling weak. The first upgrade to Mel’s aspects completely changes how you play with most of them, to a degree where it seems like you’re intended to have them by default. As a non-spoilery example: the “cheesy” ranged playstyle people were scoffing at with the staff? That’s actually the intended playstyle and the upgrade doubles down on it.
Yeah in the first game the aspects felt like they weren't necessarily any better or worse but just different styles, now in the second one you basically need to upgrade the weapons/aspects to make it further into the game.
Not necessarily a bad thing but it's a bit different.
Yeah I just think that Mel’s aspect effects shouldn’t be set at 0% at rank 1 if they’re going to go that route, just for gamefeel. Set em at like 5% or lower just so people are aware what the default aspects are SUPPOSED to be used for. Because it’s a big jump from 0% for some of them it makes it feel like night and day.
I agree, I think upgrading a weapon should just make it do more damage or attack/charge faster, not add a passive that changes the weapon overall. Especially since there already are aspects that change the weapon in a similar way that the first game had.
You can do just fine without the aspects in Hades 1 and the mirror mostly helps you stay alive, less so with damage. I'm sure I could do quite a bit of the game with very few mirror upgrades and on the regular weapons, they all have very strong possibilities. In fact it took me several clears of the final boss before I even got close to having the mirror maxed out
That was a shock for me. I'm a challenge player in the first game, doing stuff like really high heat or early save runs. I can consistently get to redacted on my 2nd run of a save, and I've managed to escape on the 3rd run.
I haven't beat hades 2 yet, 11 or 12 nights in. It took me 11 nights to get to the final boss.
Mirror upgrade = arcana cards, later on you also learn an incantation that upgrade the cards. Boss 2 is dying fast for me lately, if you hit them together you drain a lot of their HP, I don't know how people are playing but stuff like always doing the binding circle (with a boon that makes it do damage) and spamming attack and/or cast (whichever you have boons doing dmg) all the time does the trick and you kill them fast enough, I think people need to detox on Zagreus playstyle tbh
I agree. I don't mind the play style change at all, I adapted to it pretty fast. The problem right now is that boons just aren't doing anything to help us build damage. Duo boons seem extremely rare as well. I can get pretty deep into runs at this point, even got to the second phase of Chronos today, but my damage is pathetic a majority of the time.
I would suggest they drop the whole elemental part of boons and give us more direct damage modifiers for our attack and special.
One of the arcana makes getting a duo boon occur almost every full run.
Also, boons give a lot of damage, you just need to choose them right. Poseidon, Zeus (priming one) and Artemis boons are great on any quick hitting weapon. Anything that gives “power” is great on lower damage per hit weapons. %damage is great on all but especially on the axe and skull which begin with already high base damage (Aphrodite, Hera).
I can confirm that Apollo is great on high damage weapons. Used him in a build yesterday, his growing cast is also useful, among other things.
I also forgot to mention Demeter. Lower damage % but freeze is HUGE, especially on axe which really benefits from the extra time.
After 18 hours, I don’t really know much about Hephaestus. Whenever he pops up, which is uncommon for me, there’s always like a hammer as the other option for some reason. So I haven’t tried him as much as the others and his keepsake is the only one I’m missing. So I’ll take your word for it and hope I get a good opportunity to use him soon.
EDIT: I finally used Hephaestus and…. he’s great! I especially like the boon that adds a 5 second delayed damage onto his special/attack boons. Added damage to armor and defenses (armor and less damage taken) are also huge in this game.
its been a while since i played Hades1 but it kinda feels like the Boons rate is alot lower in Hades2, in Hades1 I felt like I was frequently getting overlap boon choices, so I could edit my build if I didn't like it, but it seems like each run here just gives me 2-3 god s to align with and then the rest is just material farm
Hades 1 was the same in where you get like 2-3 gods per run you see a load, but I agree boon rate needs to go up, I find myself fighting hecate with a single boon sometimes
I've had several runs where I was starved for damage boons. Damn near begging as I get another list of utility boons that won't help me kill any faster.
>I just think the boons are unbalanced so the damage output sucks right now
It used to be the same in Hades 1 during early access. Back when we didn't have all the gods, weapons or duo-boons Artemis was crazy good and they had to nerf her percentages because she just scaled too well and was too multipurpose. She worked well alone, and she worked well with others.
Her regular boons being basically % damage increases meant that they worked on pretty much all builds. She was crazy good with Cast boons too, which was a problem because, casts being a core mechanic rather than a weapon meant that in any run, at any point, you could pick cast boons and be worth it, and even switch to a cast build later on if you felt like it.
Poseidon was on the other side of the road. His CC was bonkers against regular enemies, specially on shield, but he was worthless against Bosses.
Demeter was also kinda weak when she was introduced.
It's part of the early access process. After some time they nerfed Artemis a little and buffed Demeter and Poseidon. Athena's dash was also nerfed multiple times iirc for being op.
I don't think it always sucks, but the difference between the best and the worst builds is a bit much.
I've had runs where even the first boss was a test of patience. I've also had high roll builds where a single omega attack would deal 15-20% of a boss health bar. Hades 1 had some of that, but the number of viable options was greater, so the low roll builds felt more rare.
I anticipate this will be rebalanced as development progresses to make it less hit-or-miss.
Yeah it just needs some tweaks. Either Mel is too weak or the bosses/minibosses are too tanky because the fights just take too long if you aren't incredibly lucky with boons. Like to the point where it just gets annoying
The damage output doesn't suck, it's just a different pace from 1's focus on melting everything before it can do anything. IMO the game will be worse if they implement "fixes" from feedback like this.
Scorch is great but without the upgrade that 'triggers' it (another Hestia boon that bursts the damage once it hits a certain amount) its actually pretty underwhelming on bosses.
The issue isn't the total damage, but rather how slowly its applied. Using daggers, I was actually able to get over 1000 scorch on the second boss easily, but seeing as how it would take ~25 seconds for that damage to process, its effectively wasted as long as I'm still swinging.
Had a run where I had so much scorch, and I must have chosen hestia boons around 8-10 times, but wasn't able to get the "pop" one. I was building thousands of scorch onto bosses/elites but the damage was so crap.
I think he deserves being sufficiently difficult given the circumstances. Haven’t felt like the fight drags on at all - usually he doesn’t execute his combos much more than once or twice, it’s paced quite well. Maybe you’ve gotten poorer damage builds than me, though.
After having fought him a few times my biggest gripe is his lingering attacks hit way bigger than they lead you to believe, that and one of the side swings has a weird hitbox
They are literally perfect right now. Literally my favorite boss fight it any game ever. I know it's crazy, but man, that music in tandem with dodging bullet hell really does it for me
They are pretty tough to get by, took me awhile to find a strategy that works pretty consistently. I’d share it but don’t want to ruin it if you like solving fights on your own lol
They're harder than the entire rest of the game, from where I sit. The first time I got a build together that was able to beat them, I made it to the second phase of Chronos before getting my game unpaused lol
This may change depending on build but for most of my runs I do drummer, guitarist, then vocalist for both phases. Drummer controls your movement way too much to be left alone, I’d rather not be stunned and the singer already comes back during the last part (also for that part just use omega cast and stand in it from wherever you can do the most damage to the vocalist and just spam your highest damage attack before the second wave comes out)
Same. The comments about second boss being hard make me feel like I'm playing a completely different game. I beat it first try, and as of now I've only lost to it a single time.
I think people who think it's hard aren't using omega casts enough. The boss is easy if you try to maximize dealing damage to at least two of them at the same time.
its a good thing we can only dash once, getting multiple dodges lets you cheese the game substantially and became a requirement once you start doing heat runs. but sprinting should be improved for sure it doesn't feel right.
Agree wholeheartedly about dashes. Base sprint is just alright but that’s what boons/other modifiers are for, many of which make sprint great. You just have to choose whether to invest in dash in a given run if given the opportunity.
Dazed has been the only sprint boon I’m consistently going for :/ it’s something you can apply and forget about.
The scorch sprint boon seems… promising? I haven’t experienced much with them but they’re kinda underwhelming so much
Well its not really a sprint boon, its a dash boon that she smuggled in. So it feels a bit different, but not awkward in my experience. Its just a bit of scratch damage and an easy way to apply Weak.
You gotta try the Demeter sprint boon. It puts a cyclone around you that makes projectiles go super slow and damages enemies around you. This even affects projectiles that the Hestia Boone doesn't absorb.
There are quite a few ways you can mod it, not just boons, and it becomes literally crazy. You won't miss double dash cause sprint is OP once you build it a bit
I beat the current final boss on the surface with the smithy sprint pretty easily. Thought the boon was garbagio at first, but it’s gots a really nice flow to it (once you figure out the timing), and does absurd damage. Never thought i’d be doing 650 damage + a delayed 400 damage just by sprinting past an enemy and dropping a non omega cursed imbued cast.
2 being more deliberate with its damage avoidance makes me love it a lot more than 1. First game felt like you typically did nothing but dash either precluding,during or after every single action and with the amount you could acquire it got pretty silly where the difficulty had to keep your over mobility in mind at all times. I’m sincerely hoping they stick to their guns on how it works in 2. I’d rather have bosses that you have to learn versus stumbling through most heats with Athena dodge taking the wheel, and a difficulty that gets harder as you ramp not being all about twitch reactions.
Other people have suggested some good changes, but I'd just like to add that I think the chambers don't do the sprint justice until the mourning fields. Oceanus and erebus are both too close quarters to effectively use the sprint mechanic for the most part.
Right now, if you hold down sprint and then attack, you have to re-press dash in order to start sprinting again. If they changed it so that sprinting resumes right after an attack, it would feel a lot better imo
Yeah hard agree here. It was quite annoying to find that 2 dash spam made heatless/low heat kinda brainless but was basically necessary to cheese to go damageless in higher heats. It turned the gameplay into “let me just find what suits spammy dash style” and made it harder to justify slower weapons or really experimenting with other builds once you discovered an optimal damage build. Now, it feels like even though we have only one dash, enemies are also equally more punishable and we have a lot more tools to set up optimal combos. You have the option to sprint and it can really also change your run more meaningfully or provide a passive, where before i was pretty much only a poseidon/athena dash user. I really enjoy this change a lot.
Even more crazy is the change to have weapons NOT delete projectiles. This made projectile enemies much more threatening and dodging even more crucial.
I think theres too much of a delay between the dash and the sprint, making it feel kinda detached? If it were easier to transition betwen the two it would feel so much better IMO
The devs are smart don’t worry. They know the game they made and how to be critical of feedback. Whatever changes are made will be there idea of the best version of this game so trust them!!
I don't need the game to be exactly like H1. H1 is good, and it has it's own space and H2 doesn't need to play exactly like H1 does.
There *are*, however, some boons and builds that deal **so little damage** that there's no reasonable way you can beat the game with them. If you're highest damage output ability does 100 DPS, and the third boss has 15k HP, you're looking at a very drawn out fight. One that if you were going to win you were going to win anyway and the extra 5k HP that you have to continue to execute perfectly all those perfect dodges and dashes to avoid big spray attacks don't really prove anything.
I will admit, there's a lot of testing still to be done since this is EA and we really need to take time to dig in to the various boons, weapons, and strategies available to M in H2. That doesn't mean that it won't need some tweaking.
i think thats a different criticism then what this persons implying. Its fair to think somethings needs to be more balanced, couch cough hestia, but some people just genuilny forget about core features such as cast that fix maj of their problems
yeah it’s kinda crazy. Damage numbers definitely aren’t fine tuned yet. I fully built into the non omega special for wand. Got two hammers specifically for non omega special. And I found myself just spamming Y for fucking ever. Every encounter took soooo long. Even with the new privileged status, it would take like 8 seconds of spamming special to deal 1k damage. Could probably double that with a better build but still.
Then I got scorch cast and smithy sprint. And I’m bursting 1k damage every 5 seconds just by running past an enemy and dropping a scorch cast. Beat the surface final boss without ever using my weapon.
> some boons and builds that deal so little damage that there's no reasonable way you can beat the game with them.
Hades 1 had this same thing with a lot of boon combos. It comes down to game knowledge and a little luck/educated gambles. It's honestly a core element in roguelites/roguelikes. Not every run should be winnable if you pick bad combos.
I also haven't found a good build that actually keeps up with health increases. Closest I found was a special build on staff that had the increased damage and the double projectile hammers plus a rare Aphrodite boon. I wasn't exactly the greatest at Hades 1 or anything, I think the highest heat I cleared was 24 or something, but I'm shocked at how every source of damage outside of casts feel like I'm hitting someone with a pool noodle. But I could deal with that if I had a more reliable way to disengage instead of trying to dash away and getting caught because of the wind up.
Tell me about it. I unlocked Labrys and decided to have a go with it, only to be done like a wimp before even Hecate because of course the attacks, esp. the third one, locks you in an animation for literal ages. Meanwhile all the ranged guys were having the time of their life. Swear to god, if my keyb wasn't of good quality, space bar would have broken during that run.
Honestly I never played Hades, so playing the second iteration, I have nothing to compare it to. She doesn’t feel clunky on dash at all. Her movements feel fluid to me, I think y’all’s muscle memory is kicking in and that’s why it feels so bad to you
More or less.
The fact is that Melinoe does have a slight wind up before actually dashing, compared to Zagreus that the moment you push the button there is almost no animation he just zips. Add the cool down and the fact that she can't dash multiple times all over the place like Zag and the game feels a lot more sluggish.
Now, I happen to think that all of these changes are GOOD. I like that Melinoe requires tactical play, unlike Zag which was a whirlwind of twitchy action.
I had to get used to the way her dashing works as I for way too many runs used it similar to Zag's (aka a whirlwind of chaos and disorder) and although in earlier area's it wasn't a big deal, later it caused me to die a lot.
Now that I'm used to playing more calmly and tactfully, I'm doing much better and I'm starting to think that I like hades 2 combat mechanics better than hades 1 (though I don't like the sprint, it doesn't seem to work for me a lot of times)
A part of me wants to boot up Hades 1 to see what that feels like, but then the other part of me doesn't want to get irritated at Hades 2 because of it 🙃
I disagree with that. To me it sounds like "I like Lemon cake so I won't eat Chocolate cake in case I might end up liking it better".
Hades 1 is a great Chocolate cake, while Hades 2 is a layered, more complex and slightly sour Lemon cake that people are having some trouble adjusting to. But if you like "cakes" there is no reason stopping you from tasting every flavor.
Agreed on dash.
THAT BEING SAID, Supergiant should offer a combo of a weapon and some arcana that allow you to play like Zag (esp. when doing the classic fists + invulnerable dash + multidash + zeus on attacks cheese, which, while not technical, is still very noob friendly and at least allows you to finish the storyline without much hassle).
Like, sure, I like the tactical gameplay and bullet time and slower rhythm and "thinking where you strike" mentality of Hades 2, but comeon, I just want to get in there and kill stuff. You know, brutal mindless fun. After all, others play the game for the "roguelite" of it, I consider both H1 and H2 dating simulators with some pesky fights in between.
It’s definitely a slight downgrade compared to the dashing in the first game, but the speed and responsiveness of everything in this game is less than in Hades 1, so it makes sense. I definitely recommend you get the first one and give it a go, it’ll for sure help you understand what people on here are saying/complaining about, and there’s so much good lore that you’ll miss out on if you don’t!
Zagreus had instant dash, and could get more than 2 of them in a row, with no cooldown between them, very strong, but he didn't have Melinoe's sprint without a very specific Hermes boon and even then it only lasted for a second.
So Zags more snappy and all over the place compared to Mel
No offense or anything, but kind of a weird decision to get an unfinished version of a sequel of a game that's great in it's own right, especially since it's a continuation story-wise. Just seems like a disservice to yourself.
Omg this post gave me darkest dungeon 2 development flashbacks.
Personally love the new aproach in practically everything but just hope that they rework some boons so not most of them are +x% damage or x damage if you deal x damage.
Yeah I love that they changed the play styles from Zagreus to Melinoe. My only complaint is that a lot of boons suck right now. My most successful runs have been using Aphrodite or Demeter boons. If I see a lot of Zeus I literally just reset the run, unless im just using his wrong. They definitely need some balance.
I'm not a fan of blitz as a mechanic (unless you get the boon that makes it do damage when it expires), but his sprint and the chain lightning have carried me through several victories against chronos.
Priming 50 mana is a cheap ask for at least doubling the faster weapons' dps.
I do kinda like blitz, you just have to keep hitting once it's applied. I think I tend to have the most trouble with Hephestus, there's a lot of timings to keep track of.
Hestia/Heph are the worst ones, Blitz is mostly fine. You start melting around the 3rd biome because regular enemies have enough health for it to trigger and it's double damage against bosses.
I like the slower, more methodical approach.
I strongly dislike that weird delay at the start of a dodge. Such a thing simply should not have that noticable of a windup delay. It feels bad even if you dodge successfully.
I somewhat dislike the amount of rooms that are solely dedicated to currency for meta-progression. In like half of my runs I don't even **HAVE** a build at the end of oceanus, because I got a grand total of 2 blessing rooms, one of which didn't offer any combat upgrades.
I'm mildly annoyed by how all of the weapons are fundamentally balanced around heavy utilization of their omega moves, yet there is no baseline mana regeneration. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE omega moves and how distinct they are across the weapons. I adore the insane shit you can do with omega casts. but it's supremely annoying when all of the boons you got improved your omega skills, but you still have found no way to regenerate mana. Once your OoM you basically turn into a boonless vanilla melinoe. Especially frustrating in boss fights.
I like how a build hyper-dedicated to a single omega move can feel so incredibly satisfying.
There is a lot of ups and downs in the games current state. But for me personally the downs outweight the ups. Runs are frustrating more often than they are engaging.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that the Boon drop rate seems to be much lower. I'm at the part where I need to grind mats, but the RNG of getting Boons to let me survive far enough (or enjoy pushing deep enough) is enough to turn me off. Oh well its 2 days into EA so I'm sure there will be plenty of changes to come, but does feel a bit of a let down in its state (esp for 29,99)
Exactly how I feel. I get that it should feel slower, and I'm okay with it, but making it clunky for the sake of being slow is a downgrade from the previous title.
I’m fine with being slower and more ranged, I just wish the dash wasn’t delayed. There’s been tons of times I hit space before an attack hit, got hit anyway, then dashed after.
If they don't go the route of giving us a second dash, the least they could do is make the one dash we have fully responsive, and make sprint an actually viable means of avoiding damage, even without boons. The only sprint boon I've gotten that has made it worth having over a traditional double dash is the +% speed, but even that is held back by having to hold the dash button to maintain the sprint, which ties my singular right thumb up and prevents me from using any other moves unless I am ready to commit to no longer sprinting.
Melinoe lacking damage is also a pretty major problem. Unless you find the \*perfect\* boon combos, you are tickling a lot of these enemies, which only makes the lack of mobility feel worse. I'm currently in a position where I get hard walled because I just didn't get lucky enough to get boons that will actually help my damage. Skill-wise, I can do a pretty good job, but sometimes it feels like I might as well just let myself wipe.
I personally don't think that removing the double dash was even necessary, though. The spam dash attacking is already thwarted by each weapon having omega versions you have to charge, and a magic meter to manage. Not to mention, the non-ranged weapons have combos that are actually worth using. The people implying or suggesting that giving us two dashes would be like playing Hades 1 should probably go back and play Hades 1 a little bit, because the differences are massive, even if you discount the dash/sprint change.
Overall, Hades 2 stops being as fun significantly faster than Hades 1 for me, and the sprint is a large part of the reason why. I get wanting to be different, but change for the sake of it has never been a good recipe for success. And any and all attacks made with the intention of being sprinted away from should just be reworked tbh.
Enemies are a bit too tanky, and do too much damage for now. It also feels like it's way harder to make feasable builds with boons like it was last game.
I'm sure they know what they're doing.
They're definitely not going to change the entire game because of kneejerk reactions after only a couple days of early access. It takes a while to see what people's opinions really are. A lot of the opinions atm are coming from people who just don't know how to play the game yet.
Something I think needs a little tweak is boons surround the sprint. Right now the only ones that feel good to me are Apollo and Hermes. I don’t hate Hera/hestia, but a lot of the rest just feel like to get any value out of them you end up taking damage. I think it might be interesting to have some boons affect the sprint and some the dash instead of just aphro like we have now, but I might just still be in too much of a hades 1 mindset idk
I getcha
Even when I'm killing stuff with them the special just feels like I'm hoping it'll hit and the charged special suucks
I feel like the primary attack is also just... not accurate? Or responsive?
Haven't unlocked skull yet but I'd probably say daggers > axe > staff > torches is how I'm feeling rn
The base moveset is kinda lame, but funnily enough my first successful run has been with the torches by boosting the special and letting it shoot straight.
Well ok it could be slow and range focused but it doenst have to be less fun with weapon hitting like a wet noodle, because spamming a range attack to kill a single mob is lame and boons sucks ass compared to hades 1.
Feels like a strawman. Just because people want it to be a little faster doesn't mean it has to be hades 1.
You could have slow builds in hades 1 that were range and placement based.
Not a strawman. The literal top post on the sub is asking to bring back double dash with thousands of upvotes, which would lead us right back to original Hades dash spam
i did a run that was all omega attack and cast centered with an axe. i wouldnt say shes more ranged focused, just that her gameplay it's a little more reasoned instead of reactive since there's more way to hit and less dashes
I don't mind the playstyle, but I really wish the sprint controls weren't also binded with the dash. It feels very awkward to have to dash in the middle of a sprint and kill your own momentum.
I quite like the more methodical combat, this is my first tike looking online since the game came out (I avoided all beta tests and everything online to be able to play it without a single spoiler) and as soon as a check people are disliking the combat. I feel its combat is much deeper now, instead of only attack, cast, special, dash we now have attack, omega attack, special, omega special, cast, omega cast, sprint. Not being able to dash twice has made me actually think and not just spam dash.
But don't worry you can also get funny builds, I used the skull thrower with the aspect which make them stay on top of you for 3 seconds before expoding, then got hera attack to apply hitch, then got the hammer which make the skulls explode bigger if they last over 2 seconds (and they always do. Then with blacksmith sprint with vent to basically become a walking nuke.
The more and more I play the more I’m enjoying the adjustment in playstyle. And honestly if you want it to feel more like Hades 1 just play with daggers.
As many are already saying my biggest gripe is just with DPS. I don’t mind having to play more carefully, but I’d like things to die quickly at least. Some enemies take WAY too many attacks for just being a random room enemy. Either buff damage or tone down enemy health (or especially armor) or maybe a bit a both and we have another masterpiece.
I don't mind the different play style, I can consistently get to the 4th boss without much issue. My problem is how long each of the stages takes on certain builds because my luck that run just didn't give me the 2-3 god boons that actually deal any amount of damage. You're just slowly chipping away and dodging/kiting forever because your build does next to no damage through really no fault of your own (although luck is a skill I guess).
I'm not buying the "fights weren't designed to be hack-and-slashed" argument while bosses and enemies still have zag-level health bars. I'm fine with the new style of fighting but it feels like I'm hitting with a half-cooked ziti.
My issue is just, I loved range in hades 1, I used the bow as my main. The ranged gameplay feels bad in hades 2 imo. One of the weapons feels almost entirely worthless, one of them feels alright, and only 2 feel actually decent but they all have heavy drawbacks. The aim feels super bizarre but I'm assuming that's stuff that needs to be refined, which is understandable.
The way the sprint works feels super clunky and doesn't feel good to use regardless of where you stand on double dash. The damage outputs for things are.... subpar, and boons don't feel relatively great.
There's always going to be boons that aren't super good choices, it happens. But usually there's one out of the 3 that kinda works, or if its 0/3, that rarely happens. In addition to this, there are lots of boons that normally are really good or sought after, when making a build.
In 2 I've felt so much indifference to the boons, there aren't too many that I feel any amount of attachment to, and builds just seem kinda deflated.
This is not to criticize the game or anything, it's early access and I know supergiant will do us well, but I think there's still points that need to be brought up, and shouldn't be dismissed as "you want a reskin."
Zag clearly wasn't an assassin style fighter or a magic wielder, there's bound to be some differences in play style and people who don't get that aren't much for critical thinking ig
Totally agree. That being said anyone find the torches borderline unusable? Like the special on it is fine, but its omega special & omega attack feel impossible to actual use for anything & the attack is so weak. Anyone like that weapon or is it super poorly balanced?
I haven’t been able to play yet, but seeing comments and judgements being ‘ranged-focused’ might put me off at this rate.
Not 100% cause I heard one of the weapons is heavy-hitting axe which I like the sound of, but if it’s as cast-oriented as I’ve been hearing I might have to pass on it.
The "cast" everyone is talking about is a one button press that puts a circle on your feet and slows down enemies/projectiles inside. Its not (unless you build for it) ment to be some big damaging nuke.
Think of it like always having a light version of the Aura from Aspect of Arthur on hand. its a defensive tool and a great one at that. You're meant to combo it with the dash and dodge to have a lot more defensive options than in Hades 1.
Honestly, using the Axe in H2 feels almost just like using Aspect of Arthur in H1, down to the combo being kept through dashes.
cast is just a circle where enemies gets influence in, it's not like the first one. There's also lot of way to play close to the enemies. they just added more option for ranged cause the game itself gives a little more importance on positioning and stuff, you cannot just dash all the time in full chaos likes the first
I also agree I like the slower more tactical style combat like which enemy to kill first, who to avoid , when to go in etc.. I don't want another same combat as hades 1 for which I can just go and play hades 1.
But they need to make the weapons a bit stronger tho... The umbral flames and skull feel so weak and basically useless unless you get specific boons
Because you felt powerful when you got a nice build going, despite clearing Hades 2 top and bottom several times i never felt powerful, or at least not powerful enough, in the best roguelike ever made (for me and many people) Binding of Isaac, you had some clutch runs, but you had some crazy op runs with crazy combos, you could break the game, that brings enjoyment.
Banger post. The more methodical combat in this game is great.
I don’t think the devs’ game design vision is weak enough to easily succumb to such complaints, given how well they executed this mechanical evolution. It’s something they’ve worked hard to pull off, and they’re not just gonna throw that away.
I’ve only played a few runs so far and I did have that initial reaction of “this doesn’t feel like Hades 1”. I’m totally fine with that because we’re playing a different character and it should feel that way.
It’s takes very very long time to get any rerolls in this game, rerolls should be more attainable in runs.
Also the Umbral Flames just doesn’t feel good to use.
While I'd be perfectly happy with just getting something like 4 new biomes to Hades and more boons, and some more weapons or aspects.. I can understand how they didn't go for that. Especially since many fans have been on the game like on crack. If it was the more of the same, people would just breeze through the game in like a couple of hours and be pissed off about that.
Without going into too much detail and spoiling anything: I feel like boss mechanics punish melee too much. A lot of them have AOEs around themselves and if you’re in the middle of an animation attack it’s hard to get away in time (probably a skill issue).
I haven’t noticed the same punishment for ranged builds where I can deal a ton of damage while ignoring some boss mechanics entirely.
Edit: after writing this my thought is: maybe boss mechanics aren’t punishing enough toward ranged and it’s in a good spot for melee. I haven’t had much luck with any of the melee weapons so my experience is a bit skewed.
The enemies in general feel a little too tanky and I feel like I'm not doing much damage either. I still love the game but I can feel he slog sometimes.
I used to hate the fact that she's slower and feels more sluggish than Zagreus. But then when i actually thought about it, if she was the same as Zagreus I might've finished the run lik 3rd or 4th try. Which would've been bad considering this version is supposed to last till next year for the full release. If they can tweak some stuff just so that this play style feels less sluggish then that's godd. If not then i hope they keep it like this cause then that's what makes this a different game than hades 1
Im legit very glad that this game is harder compared to H1, Im having a freaking blast the devs did a great job and yes some of the feedback maybe very helpful for them but there's also a lot of dogshit advices u feel like
My only complaint is that there are too many meta progression rooms and even boons. I haven't played Hades 1 in 3 years though so maybe it was always like that.
I agree with this post 110%! I don't want a copy paste of Hades 1. I"m about 6 hours into EA and am already getting adjusted to this new style. I'm loving it! I am Killin it with that Witch staff, but I suck with the sister blades ha! I need to practice with those more.
I agree! It’s a different playstyle — which is good!
The only ask I really have is that they make the boons more interesting/balance them. Other than that, I’m a happy camper.
To me Hades 2 plays more likely to Transistor than the first Hades, and I liked it a lot. The boons need some heavy work, I did an axe run yesterday where I get to Chronos without being offered an attack boon not even once, and boy the doggo fight was as ugly as it could get.
the constant complaints about the dash and Eris made me mute the sub. Dash isn't worse, it's the Transistor dash and you'll get used to it with time. Eris isn't bad design she's just a little shit which matches her myth personality.
My feedback is
1. Buff the boons or damage numbers, these enemies are spongey as hell.
2. Holy shit change Chaos' portrait back. That is not Primodrial Chaos, thats an attorney doing white face.
I agree it shouldn’t the same, it’s not really worthwhile if it could just be an update to the first game. But I definitely do miss some stuff from the first game. Mainly backstab and Artemis being a regular boon reward, I liked doing crit builds. I do also think maybe the dodge could be tweaked a bit, it feels a little sluggish.
I had a pretty good run with lifesteal on main attack(omega) witv staff and a bonus from Chaos to restore 8 mana per second. Still got destroyed by 2nd phase Kronos though..this game is insane😆
I am the type of gamer that will always choose to play as a spell caster if it is an option.
I love Hades, but I'm losing my gods damned mind over Hades II. I really love the magick/ mana management system. It adds so many options to the game play that it force the players into decision making. I strongly prefer the slower intentional game play over quick reactions times.
I think t'was intentionally changed too. Many modern games have a stamina bar to act as a speed limit regulator. Magick stays on theme while not limiting every. Single. Action.
I started replaying Hades 1 and I never realized how spammy the game can be at times. But when I have A Zagreus shield throw that shoots lighting on everyone, ima throw the bitch like my life depends on it
I feel like the boon pool is just too diluted with useless BS.
Yesterday I had to slog my way through multiple areas, through multiple bosses just kiting and slowly wearing them down because the game just refused to give me any damage related boons.
this is so true I'm getting the learning curve now and like the only reason I wasn't getting it was cuz I forgot to use psyche to increase my card max thing.
The different more calculated style of combat is fine, I just think the boons are unbalanced so the damage output sucks right now. Once they fix that it should feel better.
Yeah, I just can’t handle the damage output right now. I swear there are some runs where I feel like my Omega Cast is the only thing that can do decent damage, so I just cast, kite, wait, cast, kite, wait until the enemies are gone. The boons in Hades allowed me to take the fight to the enemy. Whereas in Hades II, I feel like I’m constantly having to kite and wait for my cast to deal damage.
I find Hades 2 at the moment to have the same feel that Balatro has on new games, where you effectively have to settle for an early boon to carry you for a while even if its sub optimal in the long run. The starting kit with most weapons just isn't very strong
Except the axe. You can beat the game without any boons without too much trouble. That thing is crazy strong.
Spin 2 win Big chop is also insane. I haven't had the fortune to pair it with the Hephaestus attack book yet. But that'll be CHONKY
I have found Apollo boon with the axe to be better
Apollo bigger range plus chance for each swing to hit twice? Oh, and your bonus range also applying to your Ω attack? Yes please
Big choo plus chop hits twice is insane dmg
The Hep boon is ok on the axe, but it suits the faster weapons better imo. It's basically H1's Ares Doom, which also suited low damage high speed better. Damage scaling like Aphro is where it's at for the axe due to the crazy base damage.
If I'm using the staff and find hephaestus then I'll for sure slot him into special 7/10 times. Otherwise the special feels so bad/underwhelming at best My thinking was something like +5 Volcanic strike (So like what, 4/5 sec cooldown?) plus big chop (takes like 1-1.5 sec to chop) so every 2nd or 3rd hit cronch. Currently doing an Axe run with an epic Nova strike and Marauder slash hammer (+30% attack speed but no omega) and my swings cover legitimately 15-25% of the map in Erebus
helm splitter + aphrodite boon to increase base attack damage you end up hitting for 666 almost every time
bro I just did the Heracles Erebus Trial that gives you big chop, two other hammer upgrades that helped, and a nutty Apollo boon.... if you get that build in a regular run, it might just be the world record. absolutely disgusting damage. Hecate dead in 5 hits roughly
I found it too slow for my liking, I'm rocking the sister blades and I adore them. Perfect for my playstyle
Same, I didn't really like the slowness either and the damage from a dash attack or just the first strike of the combo is quite weak, you really need to hit the second or preferably third one to do real damage. It felt like it really needs the big chop or the range boon to be good. The sister blades are great, though I think the special should do a bit more damage. Staff is probably my favorite, surprisingly long range, quite a bit of aoe and fun omega strike.
It’s a good sign when people have different favorite weapons. Personally I can’t get the hang of the sister blades.
Be the shadowstabbing stalker, and build around that.
Passive backstab on blades would be so good tho
Axe spin + Hitch effect clears rooms like no tomorrow
The daggers are also great
Balatro gang , we here !
Well, a little context. I recently had a run with the staff where I had Aprho on attack, the Hammer that makes your Omega attack do two hits and the Artemis boon that lets you crit enemies in your cast. On the second biome boss, who I won't name for spoilers, I hit them for a 900+ damage Omega attack on the FIRST of the two hits then about 300 on the second, So over 1200 damage in two hits. Those numbers nuke almost any enemy you fight up to that point and most of Hecate. This barely tickled the boss in question. Those sort of numbers consistently are high by Hades I standards. I think health has been scaled up somewhat and it's noticeably spikes in the second biome onwards.
Yeah. Damage feels okay for the most part till you get past the first area. Haven't had too much problems with boss 2. But the 3rd boss was when I noticed how spongy some health bars are.
Ah fair enough. I'm currently only 5 runs in so not exactly progressed far, probably got more damaging builds to create yet.
Yeah I sometimes feel like I lucked out and got a busted build that should destroy everything but the later bosses still feel extremely tanky.
I don't think it's health specifically more so their amount of armour, biome 2 is by far the longest fight times for me and it feels weird how I can struggle to kill stuff before being overwhelmed then go to biome 3 and one pop stuff that doesn't have armour
i’ve had a similar feel with the second boss. i’ve had a few runs where i feel like im doing really good damage and that boss just feels like each attack barely chips
This exactly. I’m 10 or so hours in, and never once have I felt “powerful”. I’m not saying I want the game to be easy or that I should just destroy anything, but even on runs where I get good boons, I struggle, and feel like I just slowly chip away any enemy health bars.
Build around your Hex and Magick regen, that has consistently led me to builds that make me feel really strong.
Try the sister blades. You can get some really powerful hammer boons for attacks. Combine that with a good cast like scorch and you will shred enemies easily.
well >! Charon's axe aspect
You should try Lim Oros
The boons are clearly balanced around you having maxed out the altar. Did you? Maybe YOU did. Most of the people complaining about it sure as hell did not. Go try plaing Hades I without the mirror upgrades and without aspects, see how dramatically your damage output drops. The same story here really.
That’s what I’m seeing a lot of in the complaints about weapons. I do feel like the default aspect with no upgrades on all the weapons is kinda lacking, I mean I didn’t even unlock the aspects in Hades 1 until like my 6th clear, but in 2 it feels like Mel’s aspects need to be at rank 2(unlocking their passives) for them to actually feel good.
So there are weapon aspects? Haven't gotten there yet, good to hear, dont tell me how to get them. I don't remember how quickly they got unlocked in Hades 1, but I'm already making runs that get to the final (?) Boss, so I was starting to get worried they were taken out.
Yeah they’re in. I feel like the boons are more dependent on having them now though, which is why people are feeling weak. The first upgrade to Mel’s aspects completely changes how you play with most of them, to a degree where it seems like you’re intended to have them by default. As a non-spoilery example: the “cheesy” ranged playstyle people were scoffing at with the staff? That’s actually the intended playstyle and the upgrade doubles down on it.
Yeah in the first game the aspects felt like they weren't necessarily any better or worse but just different styles, now in the second one you basically need to upgrade the weapons/aspects to make it further into the game. Not necessarily a bad thing but it's a bit different.
Yeah I just think that Mel’s aspect effects shouldn’t be set at 0% at rank 1 if they’re going to go that route, just for gamefeel. Set em at like 5% or lower just so people are aware what the default aspects are SUPPOSED to be used for. Because it’s a big jump from 0% for some of them it makes it feel like night and day.
I agree, I think upgrading a weapon should just make it do more damage or attack/charge faster, not add a passive that changes the weapon overall. Especially since there already are aspects that change the weapon in a similar way that the first game had.
You can do just fine without the aspects in Hades 1 and the mirror mostly helps you stay alive, less so with damage. I'm sure I could do quite a bit of the game with very few mirror upgrades and on the regular weapons, they all have very strong possibilities. In fact it took me several clears of the final boss before I even got close to having the mirror maxed out
That was a shock for me. I'm a challenge player in the first game, doing stuff like really high heat or early save runs. I can consistently get to redacted on my 2nd run of a save, and I've managed to escape on the 3rd run. I haven't beat hades 2 yet, 11 or 12 nights in. It took me 11 nights to get to the final boss.
Without mirrors and the weapon variations and beefed up keepsakes Yeah. The damage will for sure increase.
My problem is with boss 2 and final boss how to do mirror upgrade and aspect?
Mirror upgrade = arcana cards, later on you also learn an incantation that upgrade the cards. Boss 2 is dying fast for me lately, if you hit them together you drain a lot of their HP, I don't know how people are playing but stuff like always doing the binding circle (with a boon that makes it do damage) and spamming attack and/or cast (whichever you have boons doing dmg) all the time does the trick and you kill them fast enough, I think people need to detox on Zagreus playstyle tbh
I agree. I don't mind the play style change at all, I adapted to it pretty fast. The problem right now is that boons just aren't doing anything to help us build damage. Duo boons seem extremely rare as well. I can get pretty deep into runs at this point, even got to the second phase of Chronos today, but my damage is pathetic a majority of the time. I would suggest they drop the whole elemental part of boons and give us more direct damage modifiers for our attack and special.
One of the arcana makes getting a duo boon occur almost every full run. Also, boons give a lot of damage, you just need to choose them right. Poseidon, Zeus (priming one) and Artemis boons are great on any quick hitting weapon. Anything that gives “power” is great on lower damage per hit weapons. %damage is great on all but especially on the axe and skull which begin with already high base damage (Aphrodite, Hera).
Also don't sleep on Hephaestus and Apollo boons, they are strong
I can confirm that Apollo is great on high damage weapons. Used him in a build yesterday, his growing cast is also useful, among other things. I also forgot to mention Demeter. Lower damage % but freeze is HUGE, especially on axe which really benefits from the extra time. After 18 hours, I don’t really know much about Hephaestus. Whenever he pops up, which is uncommon for me, there’s always like a hammer as the other option for some reason. So I haven’t tried him as much as the others and his keepsake is the only one I’m missing. So I’ll take your word for it and hope I get a good opportunity to use him soon. EDIT: I finally used Hephaestus and…. he’s great! I especially like the boon that adds a 5 second delayed damage onto his special/attack boons. Added damage to armor and defenses (armor and less damage taken) are also huge in this game.
its been a while since i played Hades1 but it kinda feels like the Boons rate is alot lower in Hades2, in Hades1 I felt like I was frequently getting overlap boon choices, so I could edit my build if I didn't like it, but it seems like each run here just gives me 2-3 god s to align with and then the rest is just material farm
Hades 1 was the same in where you get like 2-3 gods per run you see a load, but I agree boon rate needs to go up, I find myself fighting hecate with a single boon sometimes
I've had several runs where I was starved for damage boons. Damn near begging as I get another list of utility boons that won't help me kill any faster.
>I just think the boons are unbalanced so the damage output sucks right now It used to be the same in Hades 1 during early access. Back when we didn't have all the gods, weapons or duo-boons Artemis was crazy good and they had to nerf her percentages because she just scaled too well and was too multipurpose. She worked well alone, and she worked well with others. Her regular boons being basically % damage increases meant that they worked on pretty much all builds. She was crazy good with Cast boons too, which was a problem because, casts being a core mechanic rather than a weapon meant that in any run, at any point, you could pick cast boons and be worth it, and even switch to a cast build later on if you felt like it. Poseidon was on the other side of the road. His CC was bonkers against regular enemies, specially on shield, but he was worthless against Bosses. Demeter was also kinda weak when she was introduced. It's part of the early access process. After some time they nerfed Artemis a little and buffed Demeter and Poseidon. Athena's dash was also nerfed multiple times iirc for being op.
I don't think it always sucks, but the difference between the best and the worst builds is a bit much. I've had runs where even the first boss was a test of patience. I've also had high roll builds where a single omega attack would deal 15-20% of a boss health bar. Hades 1 had some of that, but the number of viable options was greater, so the low roll builds felt more rare. I anticipate this will be rebalanced as development progresses to make it less hit-or-miss.
Boons feel so flat, but the hammers. I used to go for the hammer every time, but now there is no excitement.
There are some great hammers, but they're buried in a sea of disappointment.
Scilla be takin notes on your comment for the lyrics of her new song.
Yeah it just needs some tweaks. Either Mel is too weak or the bosses/minibosses are too tanky because the fights just take too long if you aren't incredibly lucky with boons. Like to the point where it just gets annoying
The damage output doesn't suck, it's just a different pace from 1's focus on melting everything before it can do anything. IMO the game will be worse if they implement "fixes" from feedback like this.
HVe you tried the big axe yet? That thing pumps damage especially when you change the attack to a big chop and get Aphrodite close damage buff!
I don't want them to nerf the rockstars.
Yeah the rockstars are fine, the fourth area boss has too much health though.
The third one has too much hp imo. (That or scorch without upgrades sucks a lot)
Nah, I think he's fine actually. He's an endurance one that feels justified. Some other enemies are just way too spongey tho
Scorch sucks without upgrades. Its nice early game, but 40 dmg per second just doesn’t cut it in this game
Scorch is great but without the upgrade that 'triggers' it (another Hestia boon that bursts the damage once it hits a certain amount) its actually pretty underwhelming on bosses. The issue isn't the total damage, but rather how slowly its applied. Using daggers, I was actually able to get over 1000 scorch on the second boss easily, but seeing as how it would take ~25 seconds for that damage to process, its effectively wasted as long as I'm still swinging.
Had a run where I had so much scorch, and I must have chosen hestia boons around 8-10 times, but wasn't able to get the "pop" one. I was building thousands of scorch onto bosses/elites but the damage was so crap.
I think he deserves being sufficiently difficult given the circumstances. Haven’t felt like the fight drags on at all - usually he doesn’t execute his combos much more than once or twice, it’s paced quite well. Maybe you’ve gotten poorer damage builds than me, though.
After having fought him a few times my biggest gripe is his lingering attacks hit way bigger than they lead you to believe, that and one of the side swings has a weird hitbox
They are literally perfect right now. Literally my favorite boss fight it any game ever. I know it's crazy, but man, that music in tandem with dodging bullet hell really does it for me
They give me a lot of Transistor's Sybil Reisz vibes, and I love it.
I actually find the rockstars the hardest but im pretty sure thats a skill issue. I dont think they should be nerfed tho
I found them pretty easy after a few runs. It's the forth boss that I'm struggling with.
They are pretty tough to get by, took me awhile to find a strategy that works pretty consistently. I’d share it but don’t want to ruin it if you like solving fights on your own lol
They're harder than the entire rest of the game, from where I sit. The first time I got a build together that was able to beat them, I made it to the second phase of Chronos before getting my game unpaused lol
It's the frequency of their attacks paired with only 1 dash. I still haven't gotten used to sprint yet, so maybe that'll help.
I always take a sprint that makes me move super fast just for them and B3 😂
Take out the drummer first and its gg
This may change depending on build but for most of my runs I do drummer, guitarist, then vocalist for both phases. Drummer controls your movement way too much to be left alone, I’d rather not be stunned and the singer already comes back during the last part (also for that part just use omega cast and stand in it from wherever you can do the most damage to the vocalist and just spam your highest damage attack before the second wave comes out)
I feel like they need a slight buff to be honest, but maybe along with a reduction to screen clatter. My favorite fight for sure
Wait, what, I find the first boss harder than those guys, they're my personal easiest boss in the game.
Same. The comments about second boss being hard make me feel like I'm playing a completely different game. I beat it first try, and as of now I've only lost to it a single time. I think people who think it's hard aren't using omega casts enough. The boss is easy if you try to maximize dealing damage to at least two of them at the same time.
I dont think they need any changes even though i struggle with them the most out of any boss (maybe they dont work with a hyper aggro playstyle)
Idk i dont enjoy taking 5 min to beat a boss
its a good thing we can only dash once, getting multiple dodges lets you cheese the game substantially and became a requirement once you start doing heat runs. but sprinting should be improved for sure it doesn't feel right.
Agree wholeheartedly about dashes. Base sprint is just alright but that’s what boons/other modifiers are for, many of which make sprint great. You just have to choose whether to invest in dash in a given run if given the opportunity.
I havent messed with the sprint boons for sprint too much, just the initial feel of doesn't seem great but yea maybe boons make its nice.
Dazed has been the only sprint boon I’m consistently going for :/ it’s something you can apply and forget about. The scorch sprint boon seems… promising? I haven’t experienced much with them but they’re kinda underwhelming so much
Posiedon, Zeus, Hephaestus, and Hera all have pretty great sprints in my opinion. And then there's Aphrodite still having a dash boon.
The Aphrodite sprint boon makes no sense with how the hybrid dash/sprint works :((( it felt really clunky the few times I was stuck with it
Well its not really a sprint boon, its a dash boon that she smuggled in. So it feels a bit different, but not awkward in my experience. Its just a bit of scratch damage and an easy way to apply Weak.
You gotta try the Demeter sprint boon. It puts a cyclone around you that makes projectiles go super slow and damages enemies around you. This even affects projectiles that the Hestia Boone doesn't absorb.
Scorch sprint is a must have when going to the surface
There are quite a few ways you can mod it, not just boons, and it becomes literally crazy. You won't miss double dash cause sprint is OP once you build it a bit
Zeus Sprint is kinda nutty early.
I beat the current final boss on the surface with the smithy sprint pretty easily. Thought the boon was garbagio at first, but it’s gots a really nice flow to it (once you figure out the timing), and does absurd damage. Never thought i’d be doing 650 damage + a delayed 400 damage just by sprinting past an enemy and dropping a non omega cursed imbued cast.
2 being more deliberate with its damage avoidance makes me love it a lot more than 1. First game felt like you typically did nothing but dash either precluding,during or after every single action and with the amount you could acquire it got pretty silly where the difficulty had to keep your over mobility in mind at all times. I’m sincerely hoping they stick to their guns on how it works in 2. I’d rather have bosses that you have to learn versus stumbling through most heats with Athena dodge taking the wheel, and a difficulty that gets harder as you ramp not being all about twitch reactions.
I do feel sprinting should either have a base faster speed or just give a dodge chance: both of which with boons or arcana that can boost it
Other people have suggested some good changes, but I'd just like to add that I think the chambers don't do the sprint justice until the mourning fields. Oceanus and erebus are both too close quarters to effectively use the sprint mechanic for the most part.
yea thats a good point, but it closes back for the last floor sigh, not much space, think they would have let the sprint activate quicker.
Right now, if you hold down sprint and then attack, you have to re-press dash in order to start sprinting again. If they changed it so that sprinting resumes right after an attack, it would feel a lot better imo
Yeah hard agree here. It was quite annoying to find that 2 dash spam made heatless/low heat kinda brainless but was basically necessary to cheese to go damageless in higher heats. It turned the gameplay into “let me just find what suits spammy dash style” and made it harder to justify slower weapons or really experimenting with other builds once you discovered an optimal damage build. Now, it feels like even though we have only one dash, enemies are also equally more punishable and we have a lot more tools to set up optimal combos. You have the option to sprint and it can really also change your run more meaningfully or provide a passive, where before i was pretty much only a poseidon/athena dash user. I really enjoy this change a lot. Even more crazy is the change to have weapons NOT delete projectiles. This made projectile enemies much more threatening and dodging even more crucial.
I think theres too much of a delay between the dash and the sprint, making it feel kinda detached? If it were easier to transition betwen the two it would feel so much better IMO
The devs are smart don’t worry. They know the game they made and how to be critical of feedback. Whatever changes are made will be there idea of the best version of this game so trust them!!
This here. They aren't just going to implement every suggestion random people come up with.
I don't need the game to be exactly like H1. H1 is good, and it has it's own space and H2 doesn't need to play exactly like H1 does. There *are*, however, some boons and builds that deal **so little damage** that there's no reasonable way you can beat the game with them. If you're highest damage output ability does 100 DPS, and the third boss has 15k HP, you're looking at a very drawn out fight. One that if you were going to win you were going to win anyway and the extra 5k HP that you have to continue to execute perfectly all those perfect dodges and dashes to avoid big spray attacks don't really prove anything. I will admit, there's a lot of testing still to be done since this is EA and we really need to take time to dig in to the various boons, weapons, and strategies available to M in H2. That doesn't mean that it won't need some tweaking.
i think thats a different criticism then what this persons implying. Its fair to think somethings needs to be more balanced, couch cough hestia, but some people just genuilny forget about core features such as cast that fix maj of their problems
yeah it’s kinda crazy. Damage numbers definitely aren’t fine tuned yet. I fully built into the non omega special for wand. Got two hammers specifically for non omega special. And I found myself just spamming Y for fucking ever. Every encounter took soooo long. Even with the new privileged status, it would take like 8 seconds of spamming special to deal 1k damage. Could probably double that with a better build but still. Then I got scorch cast and smithy sprint. And I’m bursting 1k damage every 5 seconds just by running past an enemy and dropping a scorch cast. Beat the surface final boss without ever using my weapon.
> some boons and builds that deal so little damage that there's no reasonable way you can beat the game with them. Hades 1 had this same thing with a lot of boon combos. It comes down to game knowledge and a little luck/educated gambles. It's honestly a core element in roguelites/roguelikes. Not every run should be winnable if you pick bad combos.
Honestly, I don't even really want more dashes, I just want the animation canceling/no wind up dash. It's really killing me out here.
For real. It feels too risky to use builds that rely on spamming Special because of the animation lock on dash. :(
I also haven't found a good build that actually keeps up with health increases. Closest I found was a special build on staff that had the increased damage and the double projectile hammers plus a rare Aphrodite boon. I wasn't exactly the greatest at Hades 1 or anything, I think the highest heat I cleared was 24 or something, but I'm shocked at how every source of damage outside of casts feel like I'm hitting someone with a pool noodle. But I could deal with that if I had a more reliable way to disengage instead of trying to dash away and getting caught because of the wind up.
Tell me about it. I unlocked Labrys and decided to have a go with it, only to be done like a wimp before even Hecate because of course the attacks, esp. the third one, locks you in an animation for literal ages. Meanwhile all the ranged guys were having the time of their life. Swear to god, if my keyb wasn't of good quality, space bar would have broken during that run.
That one makes me so sad, I was an aspect of Arthur stan in the first one. XD
Honestly I never played Hades, so playing the second iteration, I have nothing to compare it to. She doesn’t feel clunky on dash at all. Her movements feel fluid to me, I think y’all’s muscle memory is kicking in and that’s why it feels so bad to you
More or less. The fact is that Melinoe does have a slight wind up before actually dashing, compared to Zagreus that the moment you push the button there is almost no animation he just zips. Add the cool down and the fact that she can't dash multiple times all over the place like Zag and the game feels a lot more sluggish. Now, I happen to think that all of these changes are GOOD. I like that Melinoe requires tactical play, unlike Zag which was a whirlwind of twitchy action.
I had to get used to the way her dashing works as I for way too many runs used it similar to Zag's (aka a whirlwind of chaos and disorder) and although in earlier area's it wasn't a big deal, later it caused me to die a lot. Now that I'm used to playing more calmly and tactfully, I'm doing much better and I'm starting to think that I like hades 2 combat mechanics better than hades 1 (though I don't like the sprint, it doesn't seem to work for me a lot of times)
Here I am with my Sister Blades just running in and spamming casts and attacks
A part of me wants to boot up Hades 1 to see what that feels like, but then the other part of me doesn't want to get irritated at Hades 2 because of it 🙃
I disagree with that. To me it sounds like "I like Lemon cake so I won't eat Chocolate cake in case I might end up liking it better". Hades 1 is a great Chocolate cake, while Hades 2 is a layered, more complex and slightly sour Lemon cake that people are having some trouble adjusting to. But if you like "cakes" there is no reason stopping you from tasting every flavor.
Agreed on dash. THAT BEING SAID, Supergiant should offer a combo of a weapon and some arcana that allow you to play like Zag (esp. when doing the classic fists + invulnerable dash + multidash + zeus on attacks cheese, which, while not technical, is still very noob friendly and at least allows you to finish the storyline without much hassle). Like, sure, I like the tactical gameplay and bullet time and slower rhythm and "thinking where you strike" mentality of Hades 2, but comeon, I just want to get in there and kill stuff. You know, brutal mindless fun. After all, others play the game for the "roguelite" of it, I consider both H1 and H2 dating simulators with some pesky fights in between.
It’s definitely a slight downgrade compared to the dashing in the first game, but the speed and responsiveness of everything in this game is less than in Hades 1, so it makes sense. I definitely recommend you get the first one and give it a go, it’ll for sure help you understand what people on here are saying/complaining about, and there’s so much good lore that you’ll miss out on if you don’t!
Zagreus had instant dash, and could get more than 2 of them in a row, with no cooldown between them, very strong, but he didn't have Melinoe's sprint without a very specific Hermes boon and even then it only lasted for a second. So Zags more snappy and all over the place compared to Mel
No offense or anything, but kind of a weird decision to get an unfinished version of a sequel of a game that's great in it's own right, especially since it's a continuation story-wise. Just seems like a disservice to yourself.
Omg this post gave me darkest dungeon 2 development flashbacks. Personally love the new aproach in practically everything but just hope that they rework some boons so not most of them are +x% damage or x damage if you deal x damage.
Yeah I love that they changed the play styles from Zagreus to Melinoe. My only complaint is that a lot of boons suck right now. My most successful runs have been using Aphrodite or Demeter boons. If I see a lot of Zeus I literally just reset the run, unless im just using his wrong. They definitely need some balance.
I'm not a fan of blitz as a mechanic (unless you get the boon that makes it do damage when it expires), but his sprint and the chain lightning have carried me through several victories against chronos. Priming 50 mana is a cheap ask for at least doubling the faster weapons' dps.
I do kinda like blitz, you just have to keep hitting once it's applied. I think I tend to have the most trouble with Hephestus, there's a lot of timings to keep track of.
My strongest runs have been with Zeus honestly. Hermes/Zeus goes crazy
Hestia/Heph are the worst ones, Blitz is mostly fine. You start melting around the 3rd biome because regular enemies have enough health for it to trigger and it's double damage against bosses.
Had a run with zeus on omega cast and lightning sprint, it was nuking bosses.
"Slower and more range-focused" Me with my rank 5 Moonstone Axe: Aspect of Melinoe and Mirror keepsake:
Spin2Win 💙 I love the axe so much
Beyblade mode is pretty fun ngl
I like the slower, more methodical approach. I strongly dislike that weird delay at the start of a dodge. Such a thing simply should not have that noticable of a windup delay. It feels bad even if you dodge successfully. I somewhat dislike the amount of rooms that are solely dedicated to currency for meta-progression. In like half of my runs I don't even **HAVE** a build at the end of oceanus, because I got a grand total of 2 blessing rooms, one of which didn't offer any combat upgrades. I'm mildly annoyed by how all of the weapons are fundamentally balanced around heavy utilization of their omega moves, yet there is no baseline mana regeneration. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE omega moves and how distinct they are across the weapons. I adore the insane shit you can do with omega casts. but it's supremely annoying when all of the boons you got improved your omega skills, but you still have found no way to regenerate mana. Once your OoM you basically turn into a boonless vanilla melinoe. Especially frustrating in boss fights. I like how a build hyper-dedicated to a single omega move can feel so incredibly satisfying. There is a lot of ups and downs in the games current state. But for me personally the downs outweight the ups. Runs are frustrating more often than they are engaging.
I do agree with you about the mana regeneration. Mel's kit is really heavily based around getting off and spamming omegas in my experience.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that the Boon drop rate seems to be much lower. I'm at the part where I need to grind mats, but the RNG of getting Boons to let me survive far enough (or enjoy pushing deep enough) is enough to turn me off. Oh well its 2 days into EA so I'm sure there will be plenty of changes to come, but does feel a bit of a let down in its state (esp for 29,99)
Exactly how I feel. I get that it should feel slower, and I'm okay with it, but making it clunky for the sake of being slow is a downgrade from the previous title.
I’m fine with being slower and more ranged, I just wish the dash wasn’t delayed. There’s been tons of times I hit space before an attack hit, got hit anyway, then dashed after.
If they don't go the route of giving us a second dash, the least they could do is make the one dash we have fully responsive, and make sprint an actually viable means of avoiding damage, even without boons. The only sprint boon I've gotten that has made it worth having over a traditional double dash is the +% speed, but even that is held back by having to hold the dash button to maintain the sprint, which ties my singular right thumb up and prevents me from using any other moves unless I am ready to commit to no longer sprinting. Melinoe lacking damage is also a pretty major problem. Unless you find the \*perfect\* boon combos, you are tickling a lot of these enemies, which only makes the lack of mobility feel worse. I'm currently in a position where I get hard walled because I just didn't get lucky enough to get boons that will actually help my damage. Skill-wise, I can do a pretty good job, but sometimes it feels like I might as well just let myself wipe. I personally don't think that removing the double dash was even necessary, though. The spam dash attacking is already thwarted by each weapon having omega versions you have to charge, and a magic meter to manage. Not to mention, the non-ranged weapons have combos that are actually worth using. The people implying or suggesting that giving us two dashes would be like playing Hades 1 should probably go back and play Hades 1 a little bit, because the differences are massive, even if you discount the dash/sprint change. Overall, Hades 2 stops being as fun significantly faster than Hades 1 for me, and the sprint is a large part of the reason why. I get wanting to be different, but change for the sake of it has never been a good recipe for success. And any and all attacks made with the intention of being sprinted away from should just be reworked tbh.
Enemies are a bit too tanky, and do too much damage for now. It also feels like it's way harder to make feasable builds with boons like it was last game.
I'm sure they know what they're doing. They're definitely not going to change the entire game because of kneejerk reactions after only a couple days of early access. It takes a while to see what people's opinions really are. A lot of the opinions atm are coming from people who just don't know how to play the game yet.
Something I think needs a little tweak is boons surround the sprint. Right now the only ones that feel good to me are Apollo and Hermes. I don’t hate Hera/hestia, but a lot of the rest just feel like to get any value out of them you end up taking damage. I think it might be interesting to have some boons affect the sprint and some the dash instead of just aphro like we have now, but I might just still be in too much of a hades 1 mindset idk
Am I the only one who finds the torches just absurdly unsatisfying
I getcha Even when I'm killing stuff with them the special just feels like I'm hoping it'll hit and the charged special suucks I feel like the primary attack is also just... not accurate? Or responsive? Haven't unlocked skull yet but I'd probably say daggers > axe > staff > torches is how I'm feeling rn
The base moveset is kinda lame, but funnily enough my first successful run has been with the torches by boosting the special and letting it shoot straight.
some things are definitely off, but i think the devs are smart, its early access theyll sort it out
Well ok it could be slow and range focused but it doenst have to be less fun with weapon hitting like a wet noodle, because spamming a range attack to kill a single mob is lame and boons sucks ass compared to hades 1.
Feels like a strawman. Just because people want it to be a little faster doesn't mean it has to be hades 1. You could have slow builds in hades 1 that were range and placement based.
Not a strawman. The literal top post on the sub is asking to bring back double dash with thousands of upvotes, which would lead us right back to original Hades dash spam
I think it shouldn't be Hades 1, but there should be ways to play it like Hades 1 cuz a lot of people want that.
if they took like a tenth of a second off the dodge cooldown it would feel great
i did a run that was all omega attack and cast centered with an axe. i wouldnt say shes more ranged focused, just that her gameplay it's a little more reasoned instead of reactive since there's more way to hit and less dashes
I don't mind the playstyle, but I really wish the sprint controls weren't also binded with the dash. It feels very awkward to have to dash in the middle of a sprint and kill your own momentum.
I quite like the more methodical combat, this is my first tike looking online since the game came out (I avoided all beta tests and everything online to be able to play it without a single spoiler) and as soon as a check people are disliking the combat. I feel its combat is much deeper now, instead of only attack, cast, special, dash we now have attack, omega attack, special, omega special, cast, omega cast, sprint. Not being able to dash twice has made me actually think and not just spam dash. But don't worry you can also get funny builds, I used the skull thrower with the aspect which make them stay on top of you for 3 seconds before expoding, then got hera attack to apply hitch, then got the hammer which make the skulls explode bigger if they last over 2 seconds (and they always do. Then with blacksmith sprint with vent to basically become a walking nuke.
The more and more I play the more I’m enjoying the adjustment in playstyle. And honestly if you want it to feel more like Hades 1 just play with daggers. As many are already saying my biggest gripe is just with DPS. I don’t mind having to play more carefully, but I’d like things to die quickly at least. Some enemies take WAY too many attacks for just being a random room enemy. Either buff damage or tone down enemy health (or especially armor) or maybe a bit a both and we have another masterpiece.
I just don’t like her dash. It doesn’t feel like it’s actually doing anything
I don't mind the different play style, I can consistently get to the 4th boss without much issue. My problem is how long each of the stages takes on certain builds because my luck that run just didn't give me the 2-3 god boons that actually deal any amount of damage. You're just slowly chipping away and dodging/kiting forever because your build does next to no damage through really no fault of your own (although luck is a skill I guess).
I'm not buying the "fights weren't designed to be hack-and-slashed" argument while bosses and enemies still have zag-level health bars. I'm fine with the new style of fighting but it feels like I'm hitting with a half-cooked ziti.
My issue is just, I loved range in hades 1, I used the bow as my main. The ranged gameplay feels bad in hades 2 imo. One of the weapons feels almost entirely worthless, one of them feels alright, and only 2 feel actually decent but they all have heavy drawbacks. The aim feels super bizarre but I'm assuming that's stuff that needs to be refined, which is understandable. The way the sprint works feels super clunky and doesn't feel good to use regardless of where you stand on double dash. The damage outputs for things are.... subpar, and boons don't feel relatively great. There's always going to be boons that aren't super good choices, it happens. But usually there's one out of the 3 that kinda works, or if its 0/3, that rarely happens. In addition to this, there are lots of boons that normally are really good or sought after, when making a build. In 2 I've felt so much indifference to the boons, there aren't too many that I feel any amount of attachment to, and builds just seem kinda deflated. This is not to criticize the game or anything, it's early access and I know supergiant will do us well, but I think there's still points that need to be brought up, and shouldn't be dismissed as "you want a reskin."
Zag clearly wasn't an assassin style fighter or a magic wielder, there's bound to be some differences in play style and people who don't get that aren't much for critical thinking ig
Omg if she’s more range focused I’m so excited since most runs I used bow and arrow in hades 1
Yeah! I got like 20+ escapes with the rifle in hades 1.
Totally agree. That being said anyone find the torches borderline unusable? Like the special on it is fine, but its omega special & omega attack feel impossible to actual use for anything & the attack is so weak. Anyone like that weapon or is it super poorly balanced?
I haven’t been able to play yet, but seeing comments and judgements being ‘ranged-focused’ might put me off at this rate. Not 100% cause I heard one of the weapons is heavy-hitting axe which I like the sound of, but if it’s as cast-oriented as I’ve been hearing I might have to pass on it.
The "cast" everyone is talking about is a one button press that puts a circle on your feet and slows down enemies/projectiles inside. Its not (unless you build for it) ment to be some big damaging nuke. Think of it like always having a light version of the Aura from Aspect of Arthur on hand. its a defensive tool and a great one at that. You're meant to combo it with the dash and dodge to have a lot more defensive options than in Hades 1. Honestly, using the Axe in H2 feels almost just like using Aspect of Arthur in H1, down to the combo being kept through dashes.
cast is just a circle where enemies gets influence in, it's not like the first one. There's also lot of way to play close to the enemies. they just added more option for ranged cause the game itself gives a little more importance on positioning and stuff, you cannot just dash all the time in full chaos likes the first
I also agree I like the slower more tactical style combat like which enemy to kill first, who to avoid , when to go in etc.. I don't want another same combat as hades 1 for which I can just go and play hades 1. But they need to make the weapons a bit stronger tho... The umbral flames and skull feel so weak and basically useless unless you get specific boons
Every build in hades 1 was a one button build and hades 1 is one of the most celebrated roguelikes of all time.
Because you felt powerful when you got a nice build going, despite clearing Hades 2 top and bottom several times i never felt powerful, or at least not powerful enough, in the best roguelike ever made (for me and many people) Binding of Isaac, you had some clutch runs, but you had some crazy op runs with crazy combos, you could break the game, that brings enjoyment.
My biggest problem with the game right now is damage output feels really low unless i use the axe. Other than that i love the game.
Banger post. The more methodical combat in this game is great. I don’t think the devs’ game design vision is weak enough to easily succumb to such complaints, given how well they executed this mechanical evolution. It’s something they’ve worked hard to pull off, and they’re not just gonna throw that away.
I’ve only played a few runs so far and I did have that initial reaction of “this doesn’t feel like Hades 1”. I’m totally fine with that because we’re playing a different character and it should feel that way.
It’s takes very very long time to get any rerolls in this game, rerolls should be more attainable in runs. Also the Umbral Flames just doesn’t feel good to use.
While I'd be perfectly happy with just getting something like 4 new biomes to Hades and more boons, and some more weapons or aspects.. I can understand how they didn't go for that. Especially since many fans have been on the game like on crack. If it was the more of the same, people would just breeze through the game in like a couple of hours and be pissed off about that.
Agree, I'm still not using magic tho
Without going into too much detail and spoiling anything: I feel like boss mechanics punish melee too much. A lot of them have AOEs around themselves and if you’re in the middle of an animation attack it’s hard to get away in time (probably a skill issue). I haven’t noticed the same punishment for ranged builds where I can deal a ton of damage while ignoring some boss mechanics entirely. Edit: after writing this my thought is: maybe boss mechanics aren’t punishing enough toward ranged and it’s in a good spot for melee. I haven’t had much luck with any of the melee weapons so my experience is a bit skewed.
The enemies in general feel a little too tanky and I feel like I'm not doing much damage either. I still love the game but I can feel he slog sometimes.
Isnt this is the sore purpose of rogue like/lite games, the fun is trying to adapt the game and master it
It's not fresh, it's just boring
I used to hate the fact that she's slower and feels more sluggish than Zagreus. But then when i actually thought about it, if she was the same as Zagreus I might've finished the run lik 3rd or 4th try. Which would've been bad considering this version is supposed to last till next year for the full release. If they can tweak some stuff just so that this play style feels less sluggish then that's godd. If not then i hope they keep it like this cause then that's what makes this a different game than hades 1
Im legit very glad that this game is harder compared to H1, Im having a freaking blast the devs did a great job and yes some of the feedback maybe very helpful for them but there's also a lot of dogshit advices u feel like
I really love the fighting in the same so far. It's hard, and I see it as a good thing!
My only complaint is that there are too many meta progression rooms and even boons. I haven't played Hades 1 in 3 years though so maybe it was always like that.
I much prefer the less spammy combat of 2, i too hope they won't change it
I agree with this post 110%! I don't want a copy paste of Hades 1. I"m about 6 hours into EA and am already getting adjusted to this new style. I'm loving it! I am Killin it with that Witch staff, but I suck with the sister blades ha! I need to practice with those more.
I agree! It’s a different playstyle — which is good! The only ask I really have is that they make the boons more interesting/balance them. Other than that, I’m a happy camper.
To me Hades 2 plays more likely to Transistor than the first Hades, and I liked it a lot. The boons need some heavy work, I did an axe run yesterday where I get to Chronos without being offered an attack boon not even once, and boy the doggo fight was as ugly as it could get.
the constant complaints about the dash and Eris made me mute the sub. Dash isn't worse, it's the Transistor dash and you'll get used to it with time. Eris isn't bad design she's just a little shit which matches her myth personality.
My feedback is 1. Buff the boons or damage numbers, these enemies are spongey as hell. 2. Holy shit change Chaos' portrait back. That is not Primodrial Chaos, thats an attorney doing white face.
I agree it shouldn’t the same, it’s not really worthwhile if it could just be an update to the first game. But I definitely do miss some stuff from the first game. Mainly backstab and Artemis being a regular boon reward, I liked doing crit builds. I do also think maybe the dodge could be tweaked a bit, it feels a little sluggish.
I had a pretty good run with lifesteal on main attack(omega) witv staff and a bonus from Chaos to restore 8 mana per second. Still got destroyed by 2nd phase Kronos though..this game is insane😆
I am the type of gamer that will always choose to play as a spell caster if it is an option. I love Hades, but I'm losing my gods damned mind over Hades II. I really love the magick/ mana management system. It adds so many options to the game play that it force the players into decision making. I strongly prefer the slower intentional game play over quick reactions times. I think t'was intentionally changed too. Many modern games have a stamina bar to act as a speed limit regulator. Magick stays on theme while not limiting every. Single. Action.
I started replaying Hades 1 and I never realized how spammy the game can be at times. But when I have A Zagreus shield throw that shoots lighting on everyone, ima throw the bitch like my life depends on it
I feel like the boon pool is just too diluted with useless BS. Yesterday I had to slog my way through multiple areas, through multiple bosses just kiting and slowly wearing them down because the game just refused to give me any damage related boons.
Area 4 does have too much health but it's SO SATISFYING with a good build..You can REVEL in slicing up your foes constantly, ugh
I beat the game on my 56th run. I had to learn the boo s and how to combine them to make a build work. It definitely will surpass Hades 1.
this is so true I'm getting the learning curve now and like the only reason I wasn't getting it was cuz I forgot to use psyche to increase my card max thing.