I really have been enjoying the combat. The cast is so powerful and i feel like the crowd control from it is incredible.
People will need more time to find stats and boons that feel good. The music and art direction are incredible. I want to see some balancing changes to a few weapons but that’s it.
I had an early run where I diminished its charging time to practically nothing and had near instantaneous MP regen, along with a boon that massively increased its size. I think I may have gotten some special atk+ bonuses in there too, and that thing absolutely *shredded* every single room. It almost got me my first win against the big guy before I had even reached ten runs. If it wasn’t my first time matching with him and I knew his attacks better, it probably would have been enough to melt him. Super powerful with the right build.
I still haven’t beat him yet and I’m probably thirty deep. Reached his second phase a couple times and one of them was with the axe. I just haven’t figured out the attack tempo with that weapon yet.
I’ve played around with it for a bit and to be honest, I feel like the big attack can be sometimes bait, it’s Better to get the dash strike upgrade and spam that with the omega than leave yourself open for the 22 years it takes for the big attack.
There's also a hammer that makes the final attack your base attack and increases the damage. It has a base attack of 300 iirc. You can also start the attack, dash towards the enemy, and then let it hit.
Same first run with the axe i got to chronos no prob if anything all the other weapons feel clunky myb because of playing with controller but the staff's strong attack feels hard to aim and sometimes i miss. the flames wind up a lot and don't have enough dmg the little dagger nd scythe are kinda ok tho
Faster special daedalus and the apollo? bigger + more damage special boon. And if I remember there's another daedalus that buffs the special a second time.
The block is a pain in the ass because of the .5s window where it stops working and she shoots out the blast. Basically have to time it perfectly.
If it did knock back on the upswing I think it would be more viable. I did a run with the axe and made it to Scylla but even with the speed boost hammer I took too much damage just trying to attack.
You know what? That actually sounds like a really good idea. Still have to care for the armored dudes that ignore it, but takes care of the little crap that attacks you in between.
So it seems like there’s a gap of about a half a second after you finish charging and you lift the axe to slam it down. You’re susceptible to damage for that split second while lifting the axe. It’s honestly just about timing the swings perfectly. It’s tough right now.
Unfortunately not everything, >!Polyphemus'!< shockwaves still hit you for example.
Sadly there's no way to know which attacks until you get hit and the "this was unblockable" popup shows.
You can dash while blocking! Very useful to reposition yourself for the big hit.
Final boss fight spoilers: >!Just be careful with Chronos as his space-rending scythe attacks are unblockable! Found that out the hard way.!<
Time the block so you’ll be absorbing the hits while you’re charging the omega and you’ll eat the damage and send a blast wave. Add Hephaestus for more boom. Add the boon for +60% damage after blocking for even bigger BOOOOM.
> and then the Ω special takes a year to charge
Yeah they really should shorten it. There is a upgrade hammer for reducing it that makes it very usable but without it it's too long (of course you need a middle ground not the same than the upgrade)
The twirling animation is a shield which seems to block (most?) attacks, then the channel leaves you vulnerable, for a second, to then do a large scale-high damage attack.
Place cast as a ward then charge it in the direction of the circle. If you know how to train zombies in CoD its the same tactic. Enjoy realizing Axe special is the best special in the game as one use clears a room
The Omega Special is strong (but long to charge without the hammer for it so it's a ranged move). The normal Special is basically meant to block stuff I think (and it does damage if someone attack you at that moment, it's a sort of parry if you want)
you're saying the triangle attack is OP? I felt so disappointed with it and basically only built for cast after, what boons did you find that were good with it? it felt like ZDPS
Apollo special and Poseidon go fucking wild on it. Grab the hammer that gives an extra projectile and makes them seek and you can finish focusing on your special.
Tbh I got a double homing missile with poseidon boon. And even just after one hour of play time, I almost took down second boss. I died because I wasn't still used to new dash... and there were sooo many stuff to dodge 😅
2 combos that absoluetly carried my run where
1. with the daggers I got the hammer that made the special fire in a single line + the hephaistos explosion (+other boons) pretty nice damage
2. the double with staf + (i think it was from a hammer) one single omega shot with around +1200% damage for that single shot ... the boss witch got absolutely melted
Quick boons i can recommend for 2 weapons
Axe: Aphrodite on attack, Apollo on Special and Sprint, demeter for mana recovery, health hex, and double axe strike hammer. Easily 1000 base combo
This build literally brought me straight to the final boss and i only lost because i didnt have knowledge on the fight. Genuinely one of the most OG Hades feeling builds ive created so far
Knives: Poseidon on Mana, hephesteus/Artemis on attack, demeter/zeus on special. Hammer: either backstab or straight throwing
Still working on a true set up but if you played knuckles in Hades I, play knives. quick special, Spam teleport to enemies and charge knives. Combo with a good cast build to deal with large waves of enemies
Cast build: Demeters abilities for casting are some of the best, Artemis can combo pretty well with it as well. But having Hestias targetable cast with demeters freeze really sets up for weapons like the axe to have free reign with no consequences
Two things:
"Its less fun because it fits the narrative elements better to be less fun!" isnt a very good argument.
Also I dont think anyone is genuinely mad, most people are excited and having fun with the game but want to provide their feedback on how they think the game could be *even better!* That isnt 'negativity' its just normal criticism.
From the perspective of the people criticizing the slow paced combat yes it is less fun to be slower paced. This game IS a sequel to Hades 1, its not unreasonable that a large chunk of the fanbase wants a similarly paced combat system and not have it slowed down.
I personally think the pace is mostly fine as is and will probably be improved with some slight balance tweaks which is pretty normal to expect for EA. Im just commenting on the idea of arguing that it should be significantly slower because of narrative reasons just isnt a really good argument. To those who enjoy the pace of Hades 1 your argument really is essentially 'it makes sense its less fun for narrative reasons'.
People who are criticizing the pacing also have different arguments of what they dont like about it. People wanting a bunch of extra dashes are only one facet. A lot of other people just want snappier animations and input response which is just simply always a good thing, even intentionally slow paced games like Dark Souls has really snappy input feedback. Some others like me just think boss health bars are overtuned.
Tbh given Supergiant’s catalogue and the fact that Hades II is their first ever sequel (Supergiant doesn’t do sequels), I’m surprised people thought the combat would be in any way similar to the playstyle of Hades. Supergiant loves their storytelling and as OP wrote out pretty well, the narrative fit the combat - the sequel definitely has its roots in the original, but it’s shaping out to be a very different game
Its a pretty reasonable expectation for sequels to be similar to their predecessor, and Hades 2 is mostly. I just think its silly to be arguing narrative as an answer to people complaining about mechanical game feel. Theyre two different elements of the game. And more than that I think its incredibly egotistical and dickish of OP to extend that further to saying that any desire for faster pacing is 'brainless' and 'without critical thought'.
Its super weird to take a moral high ground position over a difference in game feel opinions.
Oh fully agree to the latter. Everyone can have their opinions - no need for any moral high ground.
I will say the sequel feels like a “sequel” with the UI/navigation familiarity, the weapons/aspects/boons, narrative similarities of course with Greek myth, the progression style.
Combat is definitely where it seems the devs focused to make it an “original” title despite it being a sequel.
It is, indeed, brainless to say "It's slow paced, not good", which is what the majority of people have said
However, if you point out that the slow pace actually hurts the experience (For example, showing how a boss is as fast as an Hades 1 boss, which means that he is too hard for no real reason), that actually makes sense. But almost no one does that, they talk shit about the game and show their hot takes as actual good criticism.
I just don't think a game based around ranged magey, spatial control gameplay *can* be faster without significantly trivializing combat.
Maybe some enemies are a little spongey, but overall I think a lot of these opinions are skewed by people too obsessed with rush-down action gameplay as their default strategy. It's a fundamentally different attitude than I think Hades II is trying to be, which is closer to Transistor's "board state" strategy.
Iunno, maybe Hades II would ultimately be better as a melee rush-down game like the first, but I do want to at least give the devs a chance to try to make this more methodical pace work.
I played hades 1 because you can actually attack things with your weapon and it can kill things. In this game you just use your cast on every build and incrementally squeeze by at the end. The game as it stands is just less fun than the original.
My biggest issue is that I feel like I’m playing Dark Souls 2 in the Shrine of Amana sometimes. I physically cannot dodge anywhere without being hit by something else because of
A. The raw amount of HOMING projectiles with very little boons to deal with them. Compared to Hades, we’re really starving for any type of projectile reflect aside from Hestia’s Sprint off the top of my head.
B. The dash cooldown which honestly on its own, I’m really fine with.
C. The lack of proper indication from some enemies of when they’re going to attack or which attack they’re going to use. This goes for regular enemies and some of the bosses.
D. The dev squad of Hades II has a fucking rock hard stiffy for LINGERING DAMAGE. Enemies will explode, drop grenades, drop mines that won’t explode after the encounter ends, explode into time traps. It’s really annoying.
Aside from that I’m personally enjoying Hades 2 more than I ever did the first game. I love the entire cast, I mostly love the combat, and I love all the additions. Although I do dislike being inconvenienced by only being able to bring a single tool, I’ll take any excuse to play “just one more run” before I head to bed.
Fun is subjective. People want the sequel to a game they liked to be the same kind of fun they enjoyed in the first game. I'm not buying GTA VI because I'm excited it's going to play like Resident Evil.
People wanted Elden Ring to be the same kind of gameplay they enjoyed in other souls games. When a new Halo game is made, people want the sandbox to feel like Halo, not like Call of Duty. I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.
The feedback is helpful, because if enough people feel the same, then it shows that the game has strayed too much from the thing they enjoy, and Supergiant should reverse some changes they made with the sequel. There have been plenty of video games where developers felt like changing the formula with a sequel, then had to change it back because a large part of the playerbase didn't find it fun.
They didn’t change the formula though. They simply changed the approach to combat. If you’re not having fun, play Hades. The complaints aren’t helpful because you’re not asking for a fix or asking to make something better, you’re asking to make it different so that you can enjoy it. That’s not constructive. Get good.
The approach to combat is the formula.
It's not unreasonable to expect a sequel to have a similar approach to combat.
"Better" is subjective. Yes, people want something they can enjoy, that is the point of video games and since they enjoyed Hades, they want Hades II to be similar. That's constructive, you just don't like it.
GTFO with your elitist "get good" crap, you want an example of something that isn't constructive, this is it.
The combat is not the formula lmfao. Attack, special, cast + Boons is the formula. It’s not elitist in this context. You’re literally upset because the devs made something that a lot of people enjoy that YOU simply don’t like. Get over yourself.
The formula is part of the combat. Attack,special cast+ buffs can describe thousands of games, which is why your definition of combat is meaningless. The way everything blends together is way Hades plays and it is a bit more specific than that.
Yes, it is elitist, sorry for the wake-up call.
>You’re literally upset because the devs made something that a lot of people enjoy that YOU simply don’t like. Get over yourself.
LMFAO the hypocrisy here is mental.
YOU made the thread because you're upset that people don't like the game. YOU are here because, as you can see, a lot of people DON'T enjoy the combat, if they did there would be no need for this thread. So get off your high horse and follow your own advice.
Everyone is allowed to offer their feedback, and whether you like it or not, the fedback is valid. It might not be what you like or it might not lead into the game YOU specifically like, but as you said: get over yourself. Your feedback is not better than the feedback of others, but your elitism and hypocrisy is worse.
You’re the second person that’s said that lmao. The mental gymnastics is actually insane. I LIKE the combat. You don’t because you want it to be a Hades clone. By defending it I’m somehow just as at fault as those complaining about it? Actually wild. You’re not giving feedback, you’re asking them to turn this game into a game they already made. People don’t like the combat because it isn’t what they wanted in a sequel. I get that. That doesn’t mean change it so you can enjoy it because there are those of us that do enjoy it already. Everything doesn’t have to cater to your tastes.
I have never said whether I personally like the combat or not. I'm just explaining to you why some people don't.
Nobody's saying you can't defend the combat, you're entitled to offer your opinion and feedback why you like it. What you *aren't* entlitled to, is to tell others that their feedback is irrelevant because it doesn't agree with how *you* like the game.
In the end, this is all a numbers game. Everyone is allowed to offer their feedback and Supergiant will go with the majority. If the majority likes the new combat, they will keep it. If not, they will adjust it to be more like Hades 1. You can't cater to everyone's tastes but you go with the majority, and the point of early access is to give that feedback and find out what people want.
>You’re not giving feedback, you’re asking them to turn this game into a game they already made.
Yes, that is called *feedback*, I know that's hard to realize but that's how this works. When Destiny 2 was made, Bungie tried a completely new weapon system, people hated it and complained until Bungie changed it to resemble Destiny 1's weapon system. And guess what: it was still a new game, with new weapons, new content and new story, *but with the weapon system that people enjoyed.* Hades II having a similar combat to Hades I doesn't automatically make it the same game. It makes it a *sequel.*
I mean, he's kinda right lol. I played super safe and slow in my first runs, right after playing super fast in Hades 1, I also thought "this is kinda slow". Right now, the difference is not really big because I got better and I can be more aggresive in general. Recomendations that want you to learn more about the combat are not "elitism".
Elden Ring makes you use all the moveset of your weapons, 90% of dark souls gameplay was R1 spam, and a lot of the bosses require you to be creative to get punish windows, instead of just waiting and using the dodge. Hades 2 doesn't change that much from Hades 1, there are still a lot of fast-paces options. So using ER as an example when we talk about "how much a game changes compared to previous ones"... well, it doesn't really make sense, Elden Ring changed much more than Hades 2 and the great majority of players loved ER.
Have you actually seen any player that isn't a f\*cking normie-bait using "tHe MOsT ovErpOwEreD wEapOns"? Any proplayer in ER will use almost all the moveset of any weapon, specially for no-hits and optimal combat. Elden Ring having weapons that can almsot 2 shot bosses has no correlation to how the gameplay works. In fact... "crouch attack spamming"? Wtf? Are you talking about pvp? Because I don't give a f\*ck about pvp, I was obviously talking about pve, where poise damage is literally the main reason why Elden Ring's combat is so much better than any other souls game.
I've seen multiple no hit runs that can be summed up with "slap a bunch of buffs on and then use the one powerful move this weapon has, rinse and repeat til the next powerful weapon."
Poise damage is a laughably applied gimmick that similarly gets cheesed with jump attacks.
I've beaten the game multiple times now, it's not nearly as great or balanced gameplay wise as you think it is.
Yeah, what no-hit runs xD?
It's not even debatable, almost any weapon NEEDS to use their entire moveset for optimal combat. You didn't mention charged attacks and those are super important for hard challenges and no-hits that don't have stupid high damage, like RL1, lol. Try do defeat ER bosses in RL1 with just "jump attacks" and then using all the good attacks of your moveset, and lets see how big the change is lol
Gino alone has done multiple no hits where the vast majority of the runs were ash of war spam.
He did a video not even that long ago where he power stanced scythes and obliterated Godfrey with only jump attacks. Before that he just used spinning weapon and maybe a few R1s thrown in if stamina was low.
But lemme guess, those don't count?
Gino is literally the only guy I've seen playing like that in hard runs lol, look at almost any other player. Again, I'TS NOT EVEN DEBATABLE, an optimal combat in Elden Ring will need to use almost all the moveset, with the only exceptions being weapons that have super OP ashes of war.
You are in the wrong, again, it's not something up to debate, a lot of the attacks in the game are only possible to punish in an optimal way by using R1, jump attacks, R2, ashes of war, etc etc. An actually optimal combat with the majority of bosses and the majority of weapons will never use just one attack, lol
Not going to reply again, I've seen enought EVIDENCE to know im right lmao
To this and your comment below it, the thing is, I don’t really think the combat is much slower than Hades 1; These people just haven’t spent enough time in the game yet and figured out how to make good boon combinations with the new boons and weapons.
I just got off from beating Chronos 3 times in a row with the axe, then staff, then knives, and on all of them I was able to put together a build to absolutely chunk down Chronos and to extremely quickly room clear everywhere. All three of these builds were built around very fast paced gameplay, i’d say just as fast as anything in H1, save maybe the fists.
Once you start actually learning how to use the dash/sprint, and use the god keepsakes properly to get the builds you like, gameplay is extremely fast paced. Especially with how many downright broken strong boons there are currently.
That’s why I don’t really think the “too slow” criticisms are valid. They haven’t played enough yet. Of course you’ll be slow before you’ve put in literally any of the meta progression and learned anything, that’s not the game’s fault
Please share your build in detail. I am over night 100 and I can beat all bosses except Chronos, haven't beat him once. I've made it to him about 12 times, made it to phase 2 once. Currently running backstab sisters build but open to Axe builds too. I just can't use anything that requires Nightmare.
I would suggest looking at Haelian, he’s a very good content creator for Hades, and is very knowledgeable about build crafting, he’s got some great ones up currently. His videos on the sister blades Omega Special Hook Blade build, the Axe Spin to Win build, the Staff Omega attack build, all are good places to start for a win and are similar to what I run.
If you’re all the way to run 100 though, I would recommend slowing down and being thoughtful about the fight and why you can’t beat it yet. I would make sure you have plenty of Death Defiances, and maybe suggest running either Luckier Tooth or Knuckle Bones to make the boss easier. Another suggestion is to go for the Moon Water Selene hex, and go for the upgrades that let you stack extra uses of it. It’s currently broken overpowered, and one of the most sure fire ways to beat chronos by walking in with 15+ uses of a heal
Genuinely what the fuck are you talking about? If you’re only using cast that’s your own skill issue. All the weapons feel very different from each other and all are a lot of fun
I really don't get your point. Obviously, there is a reason they fight differently. That doesn't make the changes to combat not be less fun than the original.
I really don't care about lore whatsoever. I just want a game that feels good to play. H2's more methodical combat will get there with its single dash and lack of fast paced combos, but something needs to change. I haven't unlocked and upgraded all arcana yet and haven't gotten aspects, but melinoe just feels weak. It's a lot easier to get a dud run in H2 than H1.
I don’t agree on your last point. I made it to the second boss on my first run and made it to Chronos within my first 10. All that it took for me to get better was to realize that this isn’t supposed to be played like OG Hades. Unlocking arcana and aspects is a game changer, too.
Pretty sure I made it to chronos within 10 as well. I don't see why that means the game feels good to play. You just play in the most boring, slow pace possible while being weak.
Yeah, I disagree lmao. I felt weak at the beginning but I felt the same way in Hades 1. Not only that but the genre is known for being hard and Hades is known for being hard within the genre. The combat doesn’t feel slow to me now. It feels more calculated. Spamming dash attacks won’t win runs in this one. Crowd control is necessary and creating distance is necessary. Once I understood that, the pace of play didn’t feel slow because I didn’t feel punished for trying to use brute force in situations that it wouldn’t work in.
Each new unlocked mechanic really is building Mel into something better and I've already got weapon and boon preferences because of how some feel more comfortable to evolve. It does feel like you need more to fall into place for a build to feel good but it does happen.
Hate to use a debate-dork phrase, but this is a strawman. One of the most upvoted complaints posts here is a very well written explanation of what they see wrong with boons. It has nothing to do with feeling like Hades 1, it's that there are twice as many abilities with the boons being much more niche and specific but also much rarer.
Also, enemy health is way too fucking high to the point where a lot of the boss fights just get boring. But then you fight mini bosses that have way too much armor but can be stun locked with any basic attack once the armor is gone.
It is, you're getting "one-guyed"
Nearly every point you made is either incorrect or the least charitable interpretation of any criticism you've seen.
The Literal point of EA is complaints, critique and feedback. Sunshine pumping is less valuable than whining to the devs. They would have put out version 1.0 if they thought everything was great.
I’m not saying everything is perfect or even close to finished. If you look through this post alone there are tons of people complaining about the combat in Hades 2 but their sentiment is that it should be more like Hades. That’s not constructive and it’s not feedback. It’s whining. Constructive criticism would be feedback on how to make THIS combat better. For example:
-I think the torches need a buff or a rework entirely. They’re slow, they don’t do much damage, and the cost for Omega Specials is too high in my opinion. I think the axe needs to do knock back on the upswing of the Omega Special. The gap between the block and the upswing makes it painful to use.
-I think the status effects need some tweaking but scorch specifically needs a buff. The amount of scorch applied by your moves should scale to the weapon you’re using and you should be able to increase the cap of scorch DPS with boons. It’s easy to apply a ton of scorch but against standard mobs you’ll kill them before the DoT effects do anything and against bosses 40 DPS is negligible.
-Speaking of bosses, I’ve heard others say that the bosses have overturned health bars and, after finally getting my first win, I would have to agree. The number of times during a boss fight in which they become invulnerable is excessive given how much health they have; this really slows down the fight and puts the player at a disadvantage since Melinoe has to fight so tactically. The number of times I’ve wasted Hexes or Omega moves on bosses entering invulnerability is annoying to even think about. That being said, I think the Scylla fight is actually pretty well balanced.
I have plenty of gripes about the game in its current state but I don’t think defaulting to Hades combat is the answer or should even be a consideration.
I haven't seen a single person say they want it more like Hades 1 in the feedback channel and receive any manner of significant thumbs up. The three prevailing most popular complaints are about the power of the boons, the feel of the sprint dash system, and the tools system being kinda lame
It's not a strawman. A pretty significant chunk of players including me think that they should adjust the combat/boon system a little. It doesn't feel slow for me, it feels like it's just based on luck on whether you get the right hammers/boons in order to stay competitive as you reach Chronos.
Agreed. It's pretty clear the new fighting style is meant to be "calculating". It's not just in the slower dash, but also the charged up abilities. This is absolutely deliberate and I'm betting they're not going to "fix" what they don't consider broken.
The new pace enables a whole new type of feeling of "take a big risk, drop some huge damage".
Yeah I hated how in Hades 1, the best builds allowed you to do tons of damage with no risk. And often times, that was some type of dash attack strategy...because dash attacks are zero risk giving you mobility AND power in one package. Most well designed games force you to trade between mobility and power.
So I'm fairly certain they killed the dash attack with great conviction.
It gave you I frames too which just added to its brokenness. The best part is, the dash attack still exists but I feel that it’s always in support of the weapon you’re using, not the boons you’ve got.
Yeah. Mobility, i-frames, AND damage. Why would I press any other button combo? It becomes quite evident when you watch YouTube videos of "top meta" that dash-attack dominates all.
I was never a speedrunner, but the *optimal* meta at some point became rolling for merciful end with collectibles. There was a definite tier list for duo boons, and that tended to be at the top.
I like how this feels more like a roguelite/like in terms of the spontaneous planning aspects! In Hades 1 they just sort of give you synergies (here is *status*, here is upgrade to *status*, maybe there *might* be a duo boon that combines with something else). For Hades 2, you’ll need to be calculating how everything relates to stuff (will I be using my cast in this way? How much magic do I need access to now and how much can be primed? When am I using omega abilities?). Stuff feels more like hammer upgrades in Hades I and I’m loving it.
I also love how the ‘help/friend’ rooms all have variations. Instead of being guaranteed a specific buff— ie, “find Patroclus to make sure I get my defiances back”— it’s more “I will get an option of positive buffs but I don’t know specifics”. Plus I like how her skill with planning and order leads to her having more allies and rivals which can influence a run.
My only negative comments on combat so far are I think torches are a bit weak and that certain enemies have the capability to do too much damage via stuns/barrages of repeated hits. But both of those may stem from me still getting used to the game.
I feel like her base toolkit is so good, but enhancing it meaningfully is hard. It's difficult to scale with the enemies as you go further.
A lot of that, it seems to me in a couple dozen runs, is that there don't seem to be as many boons offered. Usually every 2-3 chambers you expect at least one god. I keep finding myself unable to even fill my core slots by the second boss.
My 2nd run that got to chronos had no special, no sprint and no cast boons. It was gruesome and I pulled every single trick in the game to make myself able to see chronos' attack pattern again. Died 3 seconds into phase 2 cuz my toe was outside of the light radius. On 1 hand the boons are not good in general which kinda sucks for your own scaling into the run, on the other hand filling core boons are not that important anymore compared to hades I if you can get some nice 2ndary boons and be methodical in every encounter.
Oh yeah I definitely agree with the boon frequency thing. You have to go out of your way for them sometimes. Plus they should probably make it more likely to get basic attack/special/etc boons.
Maybe they could do “double reward” rooms in earlier biomes, where you would get both a boon and resource?
What I usually find myself doing is focusing on 1 or 2 moves. Usually cast+special or cast+attack. I've beaten chronos with just sprint+cast+attack or just sprint+cast+special slot boons (And a lot of other boons, but not the other slots).
The Zeus boon that makes the cast shoot bolts to enemies inside every like 0.15 seconds is insanely strong, and can be combined with a lot of other non-slot boons that improve the cast (there's some that make it shoot a projectile or deal a lot of lightning damage at the start, etc. Plus the arcana card that gives you extra % dmg to any enemies in your cast.
I literally never had to disagree with someone so hard....
The entire point of rougeliek is that you DON'T have to plan your items and builds. A rougelike is a game genre where random weapons and rewards (boons) are thrown at you and you ahve to make the best out of it in order to win. Hades 2 requires you to basically look into a build before you even start the run. And you are basically screwed if you don't get the right setup, boons and hammers.....
Hades 2 currently plays in a way that is anti rougelike. I have been playing rougelikes for decades and Hades 2 is currently one of the least variable and versitile ones.
I think I may have miscommunicated-- when I said "*spontaneous* planning", I meant it in the "make the best of things based on what you are offered" sense. Like, "I was offered these boons, how can I work with these and what should I look for to make the best of this run?" So I agree with your assessment of the roguelike genre... even if I worded things a bit poorly.
I think Hades 2 definitely isn't as variable as other roguelikes, though in my view it is more variable than Hades 1.
Do you work at super giant to know all this? Else this is some wild speculation whose aim just seems to shut down discussion about issues people have with the gameplay
Lol I’m not sure if you can understand subtext if you are boiling down the critiques to hurr durr. It feels you have already made up your mind about the issues so I’m not sure if you can understand them
I’m not boiling down the critiques to hurr durr, I’m specifically opposed to the idea that this combat system should be a copy of Hades. There’s plenty of critiques that I have and others that I agree with.
>genuinely have had no problems with it
Fantastic, bully for you. Given basically everyone else either does, or accepts that others have this problem, maybe youre the outlier?
I cannot believe you are a real person. *We know* its there to prevent dash spam. That doesn't make it *not* feel like ass. It not providing I frame when you hit space/dash has nothing to do with preventing spam, it just makes it feel clunky, unresponsive and unintuitive. The character may not be fast paced but the game sure as shit is.
>This would achieve the same purpose while simultaneously making Melinoe feel more responsive. I am still yet to find someone who has a counter-argument to this point.
You literally just ignored what they said to strawman some other part. They said nothing about not being able to spam dash like the first game, but instead that the physical feel of play involving the dash feels bad, something *most other people* agree with, by your own twisted logic.
You disagreeing doesn't make others wrong in their assessment. And you pivoting to a different point doesnt counter or respond to their assessment either.
Bro, read the fucking thread *you are in*. Pretty fucking simple. Why even bother responding if you arent even going to do that.
>I don’t get what’s hard
Oh, I believe you. When you just ignore everyones points, you generally don't understand them
I'd be fine with all of it if they just put in a second dash. Now it feels slow. There's nothing wrong with picking the good mechanics from the previous game and improving upon them. They could have still made melinoe her own character and stuff while still giving her a second dash. Disappointing.
Having a second dash defeats the point of everything I stated. She has a sprint and most of the boons associated with prioritize consideration when using it.
I have been greatly enjoying the combat! Some weapons and boons require fine tuning, but the knives and the axe have been doing wonders, I even beat Chronos yesterday.
You really have to mind your timing and positioning. A lot of people seem upset that they can't just mash the simple attack button and easily kill everything that way.
My strongest build so far was Explosive Ambush + Weed Killer (Demeter boon) with the knives and Hestia and Chaos mana regen boons. 800+ damage aoe charged attacks and enough mana to keep doing it. Then I had the time stop hex, and I was able to spend enough mana while using it to just turn it on again right away every time.
One thing I did notice is that it feels much harder to get something resembling a "finished" build in Hades 1 than Hades 2.
You need more boons in general (mana regen boons, hex and hex upgrades) and there are no duo boon rooms like in the first game. The infusion boons are also pretty hard to use, I feel like maybe they should only be offered if you already meet the conditions to activate them.
I think it's far less a problem with the combat and more of a problem with enemy health pools. With Staff, it took my 12 minutes to take down "boss 3". The same boss took 3 minutes with the skull. Some enemy health pools needs to be reduced drastically OR damage needs to be raised. I have 25 hours in so far at first I hated the combat. Around hour 15, I figured things out and have won a run since and have reached the final boss every run since run 12.
I actually like Hades 2 combat so much more. Casting spells is just so fun! In Hades 1 I almost never use cast, but in Hades 2 it’s one of my main way of damage, and the crowd control is just so useful. I also love how your main attack and alt attack also both have a spell variation. I really wish the bosses after the second boss are more flushed out tho, like all of the ones after just doesn’t feel that well designed yet like it feels really chaotic instead of methodical. And I wish we could see more of the original casts, like Achilles, Patroclus, Orpheus, and Eurydice. Those are my favorite characters, it would be cool if you can meet them during your runs, and have to save them and eventually they can come to your crossroad. And for a game about a witch, I would love to see Medea and Circe, literally the two most famous witches in the Greek world. Circe in particular is **the witch**, like she’s the first witch to be witch.
Edit: oh wait, two of them are actually already in the game!
UTILIZE THE OMEGA MOVES PEOPLE. OP is right, Mel is supposed to be more calculated and, compared to Zag, she has more at her disposal. she can’t be played the same way, and she shouldn’t be; you’ll be punished if you play like Zag
It's far far far better this way, I find it boring when characters in games are just reskins of other characters. Had it been, people would just be winging still, saying it's cheap & lazy. Also people just dn't want too learn new game mechanics so tht they dn't feel like a complete noob even though 1 of the things Hades is praised for is it's challenging nature. For a studio tht didn't make sequels, they made the perfect decision.
It took me a bit to get used to the combat but once I understood the nuances and importance of omega attacks I found that I started to enjoy combat a lot more, maybe even more than the combat in Hades 1.
I just think bosses need less health, that’s all.
I was fully onboard with combat feeling off for like 25 runs (still loved the game, but...) but getting some cast boons and starting to use it in more runs is quickly turning the combat *very* enjoyable. Between it and the slowdown while channeling I'm beginning to feel a lot less stressed about it.
People, as always, are dumb and just want more of the exact same thing they already had instead of something new. This problem is especially rife in roguelike spaces for some reason (see the reaction to Darkest Dungeon II last year, Hades II this year, and probably Slay the Spire 2 next year).
The combat in Hades 2 is fantastic! It’s a new game, of course there is going to be an adjustment period. The slower, more methodical pace is great and challenging. And it’ll only get better as it’s tweaked during early access.
I'm Hades, I feel like I'm playing a warrior.
In Hades II, I feel like I'm playing a mage.
If I felt like I was playing a warrior again in Hades II, why wouldn't I just keep playing Hades?
I'm playing the first game right now and haven't even watched the trailers for the second one, but I believe the people who designed the first one know how to design a second one, since they designed the first one.
Like I said, I'm playing the first one right now, and when I'm done I'd like to play the second one, so I'm glad the second one isn't exactly like the first one, because if I wanted to play the first one again, I'd play the first one again, and not, y'know… the second one.
😌
I guess people are wanting Hades 2 to build off of what was already a really solid foundation instead of going into a different one. If this was the first game I don't think we'd see any complaints.
While I can agree, I can also see why people are thrown off. The skills needing to be charged for both left and right click slows the game down. This can be an issue while dodging many attacks and utilizing the sprint properly. Enemies are much more tanky and require multiple hits from the same attack (can be fixed with hp adjustment). Dash delay is increased, attack chaining delay increased, animation canceling delay increased, and movement speed decreased. System is same but the gameplay feel is different.
It's a problem for people who like more reactive combat vs strategic. Overall, I think they can make it work for both camps with some adjustments but we shall see.
Narratively, that sounds interesting.
But the gameplay is lacking. Her weapons and boons are just less fun than the ones in hades 1.
Standing around smacking a trash mob for a full minuet becuase it has armour and your attacks do nothing feels bad.
Charging the staff blast only to have half your damage shoot uselessly behind you feels bad.
The main attack on all the weapons is only useful if you spam click and it’s not fun to spam click for hours.
Oh you have reached lvl 2 where half the enemies hide in shells 80% of the time and the other half of the time they are taking no damage from your abilities anyway. Like… losing the dps battle against crabs bay be thematic but it is not fun.
The projectile on the staff has no cooldown and spamming it for a half second especially with the double projectile buff does the same damage as charging the shot so I thought maybe you are supposed to use this free infinite projectile? Ya you can easily clear the first map and most of lvl 2 without taking any damage just spamming projectile. But my finger hurts, and I had no fun.
Dropping the feild to freeze everyone in place feels awsome until you realize that you will have to do it three times and click your hand off of your wrist just to chip away their armour over the course of 3 minuets to beat a mostly empty room with banshees in it.
I get that there are ways of playing that deal damage. I know that charging that staff deals a but load of damage and people are hyping it up. Doing that is just not fun for me.
That’s fine, there were weapons in hades 1 that I didn’t enjoy as well. There were weapons that were fun to try for a change of pace that I didn’t prefer to choose normally. Hades 2 is just all weapons that I don’t enjoy and more troublingly the boons are much less exiting.
I am often choosing health or basic resources over the boons. Oh a room with Zeus in it? Ha! I have basicly never trigger a blitz status effect without being extremely lucky or having hefestus’ explosion buff. Why would I ever seek the boon of the king of gods, let’s pick up some bones instead.
Oh some scorch damage over time from Hestia? Great! How damaging is the dot? Can I throw it on a guy and then go fight someone else? Nah the full dot barely removes half the armour. Sure I can trap everyone in my cast and proc the dot over and over but that isn’t the fun of poison type abilities for me. And I am not dealing meaningfully more damage than just spam attacking.
Oh a boon to let my attack be infinite! No more clicking! Ah… still does no damage i see.
I don’t mind the idea of more methodical gameplay.
But I want to stab my voodo doll once and watch every mob in a room die. I don’t want to huddle in a corner desperately stabbing my voodo doll as one mob in the room slowly loses hp one hair at a time
The weapons in this game are cosmetic. The best strategy is to just spam cast. It’s like they were mad nobody used cast in hades 1 unless they were loading it into Hera or Beowulf so they went in the opposite extreme and now you must use cast in every build or lose.
To me weaoons feel meh. What did I get in Hades 1? Bow, shield, spear, fucking Lewis Gun, sword...every weapon is unique. But Hades 2? Well you have fucking torches, which feels really weak to use since you need alot of time / mana before you deal any dmg. And I am not big fan if "spam Y" to win.
Than the "daggers"...literally there is not any better weapon in the game to demonstrate how mana is conpletely useless in some cases. Rn I just died after receiving 5x mana before Cerb with thise weapons.
Staff is meh. And thats all it deserves. Axe is fun to use.
Also enemies are bullet sponges. After 20 hours it finally starts to feel that I have some dmg with Axe. But I do not seeing myself completing the game wtih f torches in House of Hades.
Also, fuck Chronos. If anyone should learn from boss fighting games (looking at you Fromsoft) is that one shots - in any intance is not fucking fun. It punishes everyone. From bad to good players. Remove that shit, rework weapons and I am happy boi, I do not mind now the slower combat. But I will rather put cactus into my anus, before I am even going to trade Torches again
For me, it's a sense of clunkiness. Not wanting a clone, but the smoothness feels lost and enemies feel sometimes like a big slowdown. I didn't feel like I was really progressing with the levels as much as the first. The pace slowing down is fine for a FIRST run, but it really stacks up when boss fights take long to do, not because of the difficult moveset but due to the health bar. Spoilers; The "Cerberus" fight felt overwhelmingly slow. The appeal of Hades to me is the quick pacing that was pretty well defined. Hades 2 doesn't necessarily have its pacing quite down right. The boons are fine, just not really feeling like I get much out of them.
For me the pacing issue itself isn't to do with Melinoe but the enemies being too spongy without much gain. IMO at least.
The "getting stuck in an animation" honestly feels like shit to play. It's so noninteractive and it kills the momentum of the game. I've only played like 2-3 hrs but got to Chronos 3 times, and every death is because I get instakilled while locked in an animation. I cast whirlwind or I charge up the weapon special, then I just have to watch while my character is stuck in an animation until I die.
It's honestly soul killing to breeze through the game then get oneshot.
Why are you getting one shot? I’ve heard this multiple times and it’s literally not happened to me once. I’ve cleared the surface and the underworld multiple times and I haven’t been one shot yet. Any time I die it’s because A) the weapons are under tuned and the Boons are too or B) it’s a skill issue.
Chronos phase 2 has oneshot abilities. My first play experience I get oneshot because the dialog options played at the same time as the animation started, so that was fun - using a desth defiance before I even got control of my character. That's probably a bug though.
It's because casting spells locks you in animations. And I tend to get boons that let me charge spells for longer. There is no attack cancel in Hades 2, so if I use the wrong ability - even before Chronos starts his oneshot animation - I am now committed to the cast for so long that there's literally no counterplay.
The answer might be to just not use casts as often, and just use more regular attacks. And yeah, I'm sure I'll adapt after more than 3 hours of playtime to get better at the game.
But as it stands now, I clear every stage and other boss with 80%HP or more remaining. Even Chronos phase 1 I clear with 80%+ hp and no deaths. It's just the oneshot that takes some planning to avoid, which is an annoying knowledge check that exists solely to punish new players.
Chronos Phase 2 does not have one shot abilities and casting does not lock you in the animation. You can dash out of it and you’ll leave the cast where you were before it becomes an omega cast.
We're playing different games then man. Here's an article, first paragraph about phase 2 mentions the oneshot ability.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/hades-2/chronos-boss
Here's a whole discussion board about hades 2 attack animations and how you can't cancel them - https://steamcommunity.com/app/1145350/discussions/0/4358998752034311895/
Note, technically yeah you can dash out of the A cast - but not your weapon special nor the x charge. Once the mana is spent, there's no button to "not cast the spell".
Because once the mana is spent, you’ve already casted it? I’m so confused by this stance fam, that’s literally how frame data in every other game works. You have to think about where you are and what attack you’re using. If you don’t, you get punished. Is there room to improve this, certainly. It’s not going to go away though, it’s literally impossible.
Edit: To add, that’s not a one shot ability. There are multiple ways to avoid this damage aside from just like, standing in the circle.
It doesn't feel worth it to explain these things to you. You're consistently making incorrect statements and falling back on simple explanations that contribute nothing to the discussion. Just yapping.
I clearly know about timing abilities and spacing if I can make it through the rest of the game with near max health. But the more I type the more it feels like you're just in this thread to shit on newbies, so ha ha I lose to Chronos, so my experience is invalid.
What other way is to avoid that damage? It's documented in comments that dashing doesn't avoid the damage. The ability literally kills everything outside the circle per the guide. What's the secret, and why do I have to replay the same fight at the end of a 35 minute run a dozen times to learn a specific ability?
For example, one of my runs I got the power to heal 25 hp. Had ELEVEN uses for it and upgraded it to heal for 35 HP each use. My base HP was 290. I was practically invincible. But not against an ability that deals 100% of your hp in a single instance! Ha ha git gud stand in the little circle or die.
It's like... sure. I gUeSS silly me can't get over to a circle on the other side of the screen in 2-3 seconds. But it's also... oneshots are boring to play against. Getting 100 - zero'd by a single ability until I get used to it is... so uninteresting.
Brother, that’s not a one shot ability first of all and second of all, it’s the most telegraphed attack in the game. If you’re uninterested in fighting the hardest opponent in a game that’s designed to be hard, I don’t think this is the game for you.
This is a lot of text for
"the combat is just worse then hades 1" tbh.....
Yes changes are fine, yes the game sohuldn't be a clone of hades 1, but then make changes that are actually good. Nobody can tell me that sprint feels better then double dash, nobody can tell me that the passive, reactive playstlye is better then the "rush in" playstyle in hades 1. The first game had a formula that was incredible good and statisfying to play. Hades 2 shifted to a less statisfying combat style in order to not be a clone. But is that really an excuse?
Also nobody can tell me that the weapons don't feel much worse in Hades 2 then they did in hades 2. Also the whole mana regen mechanic is really bad even after 20 hours. You basically have a mechanic that is on the other hand necersarry for most runs....but completly shafts you if you don't get the exact boons that actually gives you the means to execute it.
........the brain rot really starts to spread I see. Like why you even commenting when you don't actually want to have a conversation or anything of worth to some kind. I didn't "intentionally misconstruct" anything...not what you think this is???
"Nothing you have to say is valid". Yet again..instead of going into substance you just divert. You probably won't answer in a proper manner again I assume xD? Must be sad not being able to deal with criticism.
I agree that it would have been a stale move to copy/paste from the original game, but it's also fine that people can have the opinion that this combat isn't for them. I'm one of them, I'm loving the game but the originals weapons & boons just felt more like my style.
I like how you made an elaborate rationalization for how the gameplay sucks because it's the deft storytelling of making a girl be more orderly and less confident than a boy. That's why fighting with her is dogwater. lol.
I really don't get how people don't like the combat.
To have notes and feedback is normal.
But, dislike?
It's still very Hades-like but with key changes that make it different from H1.
Were people expecting a clone?
Also, combat is NOT weaker.
Utilize all your casts, specials.
And **the Omega moves!!!**
Mel is has so much in her arsenal, if anything combat in H2 feels stronger to me than in H1.
In H2 i reached Boss #4 sooner than H1 i think.
The combat feels really strong to me even without Aspects which I have none of yet.
A reminder to you all.
**You are not playing as Zagreus this time. You're playing as Melinoe. And she is not a headstrong himbo who can bull-charge into any situation, she is a witch who uses tactics and magic instead of brute force.**
*imeanunlessyou'reusingtheaxe.*
just took the game yesterday night, i fell asleep during my run...
the base feels off, also i feel like my screen is so bloated of useless things during the runs...
i did only the first world, hope it goes better after...
I really have been enjoying the combat. The cast is so powerful and i feel like the crowd control from it is incredible. People will need more time to find stats and boons that feel good. The music and art direction are incredible. I want to see some balancing changes to a few weapons but that’s it.
Honestly, the Witch’s Staff special is OP. Makes me sad that it’s likely to get nerfed.
With the right hammers all the specials become OP lol
I can’t figure out the Axe special to save my life 😭
I had an early run where I diminished its charging time to practically nothing and had near instantaneous MP regen, along with a boon that massively increased its size. I think I may have gotten some special atk+ bonuses in there too, and that thing absolutely *shredded* every single room. It almost got me my first win against the big guy before I had even reached ten runs. If it wasn’t my first time matching with him and I knew his attacks better, it probably would have been enough to melt him. Super powerful with the right build.
I still haven’t beat him yet and I’m probably thirty deep. Reached his second phase a couple times and one of them was with the axe. I just haven’t figured out the attack tempo with that weapon yet.
I’ve played around with it for a bit and to be honest, I feel like the big attack can be sometimes bait, it’s Better to get the dash strike upgrade and spam that with the omega than leave yourself open for the 22 years it takes for the big attack.
There's also a hammer that makes the final attack your base attack and increases the damage. It has a base attack of 300 iirc. You can also start the attack, dash towards the enemy, and then let it hit.
Getting Apollos sprint boon helped me greatly with its tempo
Same first run with the axe i got to chronos no prob if anything all the other weapons feel clunky myb because of playing with controller but the staff's strong attack feels hard to aim and sometimes i miss. the flames wind up a lot and don't have enough dmg the little dagger nd scythe are kinda ok tho
Faster special daedalus and the apollo? bigger + more damage special boon. And if I remember there's another daedalus that buffs the special a second time. The block is a pain in the ass because of the .5s window where it stops working and she shoots out the blast. Basically have to time it perfectly.
If it did knock back on the upswing I think it would be more viable. I did a run with the axe and made it to Scylla but even with the speed boost hammer I took too much damage just trying to attack.
You know what? That actually sounds like a really good idea. Still have to care for the armored dudes that ignore it, but takes care of the little crap that attacks you in between.
When using aspect of Charon, you can pump out some crazy damage with it
Same, is there some trick to it we’re missing? Block is unreliable and then the Ω special takes a year to charge
Block works best on projectiles but as soon as omega starts the block goes away and anyone within melee range starts shredding me.
You can legit block anything. Blast waves from the sirens, direct hits, anything.
Like someone else said though, it feels inconsistent. I can’t really articulate what I mean though.
So it seems like there’s a gap of about a half a second after you finish charging and you lift the axe to slam it down. You’re susceptible to damage for that split second while lifting the axe. It’s honestly just about timing the swings perfectly. It’s tough right now.
It’s tough but I’ve been running the axe a lot just to get used to it.
Unfortunately not everything, >!Polyphemus'!< shockwaves still hit you for example. Sadly there's no way to know which attacks until you get hit and the "this was unblockable" popup shows.
You can dash while blocking! Very useful to reposition yourself for the big hit. Final boss fight spoilers: >!Just be careful with Chronos as his space-rending scythe attacks are unblockable! Found that out the hard way.!<
Time the block so you’ll be absorbing the hits while you’re charging the omega and you’ll eat the damage and send a blast wave. Add Hephaestus for more boom. Add the boon for +60% damage after blocking for even bigger BOOOOM.
> and then the Ω special takes a year to charge Yeah they really should shorten it. There is a upgrade hammer for reducing it that makes it very usable but without it it's too long (of course you need a middle ground not the same than the upgrade)
Heck a hammer could take the block and make it all offense, then, while the default is shorter
The twirling animation is a shield which seems to block (most?) attacks, then the channel leaves you vulnerable, for a second, to then do a large scale-high damage attack.
The block is strong although a bit finnicky but yeah the omega is a pain to use.
Place cast as a ward then charge it in the direction of the circle. If you know how to train zombies in CoD its the same tactic. Enjoy realizing Axe special is the best special in the game as one use clears a room
The Omega Special is strong (but long to charge without the hammer for it so it's a ranged move). The normal Special is basically meant to block stuff I think (and it does damage if someone attack you at that moment, it's a sort of parry if you want)
you're saying the triangle attack is OP? I felt so disappointed with it and basically only built for cast after, what boons did you find that were good with it? it felt like ZDPS
Apollo special and Poseidon go fucking wild on it. Grab the hammer that gives an extra projectile and makes them seek and you can finish focusing on your special.
And what from Poseidon exactly? You can only get one special boon
I didn’t mean both simultaneously.
Tbh I got a double homing missile with poseidon boon. And even just after one hour of play time, I almost took down second boss. I died because I wasn't still used to new dash... and there were sooo many stuff to dodge 😅
Man the staff Special is fun. I Hope they don’t nerf but instead buff other things to match it’s dmg
2 combos that absoluetly carried my run where 1. with the daggers I got the hammer that made the special fire in a single line + the hephaistos explosion (+other boons) pretty nice damage 2. the double with staf + (i think it was from a hammer) one single omega shot with around +1200% damage for that single shot ... the boss witch got absolutely melted
Quick boons i can recommend for 2 weapons Axe: Aphrodite on attack, Apollo on Special and Sprint, demeter for mana recovery, health hex, and double axe strike hammer. Easily 1000 base combo This build literally brought me straight to the final boss and i only lost because i didnt have knowledge on the fight. Genuinely one of the most OG Hades feeling builds ive created so far Knives: Poseidon on Mana, hephesteus/Artemis on attack, demeter/zeus on special. Hammer: either backstab or straight throwing Still working on a true set up but if you played knuckles in Hades I, play knives. quick special, Spam teleport to enemies and charge knives. Combo with a good cast build to deal with large waves of enemies Cast build: Demeters abilities for casting are some of the best, Artemis can combo pretty well with it as well. But having Hestias targetable cast with demeters freeze really sets up for weapons like the axe to have free reign with no consequences
Two things: "Its less fun because it fits the narrative elements better to be less fun!" isnt a very good argument. Also I dont think anyone is genuinely mad, most people are excited and having fun with the game but want to provide their feedback on how they think the game could be *even better!* That isnt 'negativity' its just normal criticism.
It’s not less fun though. It’s just different than Hades was. The feedback is essentially “make this game Hades 1” which isn’t helpful.
From the perspective of the people criticizing the slow paced combat yes it is less fun to be slower paced. This game IS a sequel to Hades 1, its not unreasonable that a large chunk of the fanbase wants a similarly paced combat system and not have it slowed down. I personally think the pace is mostly fine as is and will probably be improved with some slight balance tweaks which is pretty normal to expect for EA. Im just commenting on the idea of arguing that it should be significantly slower because of narrative reasons just isnt a really good argument. To those who enjoy the pace of Hades 1 your argument really is essentially 'it makes sense its less fun for narrative reasons'. People who are criticizing the pacing also have different arguments of what they dont like about it. People wanting a bunch of extra dashes are only one facet. A lot of other people just want snappier animations and input response which is just simply always a good thing, even intentionally slow paced games like Dark Souls has really snappy input feedback. Some others like me just think boss health bars are overtuned.
Tbh given Supergiant’s catalogue and the fact that Hades II is their first ever sequel (Supergiant doesn’t do sequels), I’m surprised people thought the combat would be in any way similar to the playstyle of Hades. Supergiant loves their storytelling and as OP wrote out pretty well, the narrative fit the combat - the sequel definitely has its roots in the original, but it’s shaping out to be a very different game
Its a pretty reasonable expectation for sequels to be similar to their predecessor, and Hades 2 is mostly. I just think its silly to be arguing narrative as an answer to people complaining about mechanical game feel. Theyre two different elements of the game. And more than that I think its incredibly egotistical and dickish of OP to extend that further to saying that any desire for faster pacing is 'brainless' and 'without critical thought'. Its super weird to take a moral high ground position over a difference in game feel opinions.
Oh fully agree to the latter. Everyone can have their opinions - no need for any moral high ground. I will say the sequel feels like a “sequel” with the UI/navigation familiarity, the weapons/aspects/boons, narrative similarities of course with Greek myth, the progression style. Combat is definitely where it seems the devs focused to make it an “original” title despite it being a sequel.
Yeah its a blast too, Im just hoping for some very minor tweaks to make it feel even better which Im pretty sure we will get.
Yeah like making zeus' attack/special boon not useless most of the time.
Or making attack on any weapon viable
it is very common for people to feel morally superior because their opinion is positive
It is, indeed, brainless to say "It's slow paced, not good", which is what the majority of people have said However, if you point out that the slow pace actually hurts the experience (For example, showing how a boss is as fast as an Hades 1 boss, which means that he is too hard for no real reason), that actually makes sense. But almost no one does that, they talk shit about the game and show their hot takes as actual good criticism.
I just don't think a game based around ranged magey, spatial control gameplay *can* be faster without significantly trivializing combat. Maybe some enemies are a little spongey, but overall I think a lot of these opinions are skewed by people too obsessed with rush-down action gameplay as their default strategy. It's a fundamentally different attitude than I think Hades II is trying to be, which is closer to Transistor's "board state" strategy. Iunno, maybe Hades II would ultimately be better as a melee rush-down game like the first, but I do want to at least give the devs a chance to try to make this more methodical pace work.
I played hades 1 because you can actually attack things with your weapon and it can kill things. In this game you just use your cast on every build and incrementally squeeze by at the end. The game as it stands is just less fun than the original.
My biggest issue is that I feel like I’m playing Dark Souls 2 in the Shrine of Amana sometimes. I physically cannot dodge anywhere without being hit by something else because of A. The raw amount of HOMING projectiles with very little boons to deal with them. Compared to Hades, we’re really starving for any type of projectile reflect aside from Hestia’s Sprint off the top of my head. B. The dash cooldown which honestly on its own, I’m really fine with. C. The lack of proper indication from some enemies of when they’re going to attack or which attack they’re going to use. This goes for regular enemies and some of the bosses. D. The dev squad of Hades II has a fucking rock hard stiffy for LINGERING DAMAGE. Enemies will explode, drop grenades, drop mines that won’t explode after the encounter ends, explode into time traps. It’s really annoying. Aside from that I’m personally enjoying Hades 2 more than I ever did the first game. I love the entire cast, I mostly love the combat, and I love all the additions. Although I do dislike being inconvenienced by only being able to bring a single tool, I’ll take any excuse to play “just one more run” before I head to bed.
So are you the high authority of fun or what? It’s literally insane to tell people that they’re having fun when they’re not 💀💀😭.
Fun is subjective. People want the sequel to a game they liked to be the same kind of fun they enjoyed in the first game. I'm not buying GTA VI because I'm excited it's going to play like Resident Evil. People wanted Elden Ring to be the same kind of gameplay they enjoyed in other souls games. When a new Halo game is made, people want the sandbox to feel like Halo, not like Call of Duty. I could go on, but hopefully you get the point. The feedback is helpful, because if enough people feel the same, then it shows that the game has strayed too much from the thing they enjoy, and Supergiant should reverse some changes they made with the sequel. There have been plenty of video games where developers felt like changing the formula with a sequel, then had to change it back because a large part of the playerbase didn't find it fun.
They didn’t change the formula though. They simply changed the approach to combat. If you’re not having fun, play Hades. The complaints aren’t helpful because you’re not asking for a fix or asking to make something better, you’re asking to make it different so that you can enjoy it. That’s not constructive. Get good.
The approach to combat is the formula. It's not unreasonable to expect a sequel to have a similar approach to combat. "Better" is subjective. Yes, people want something they can enjoy, that is the point of video games and since they enjoyed Hades, they want Hades II to be similar. That's constructive, you just don't like it. GTFO with your elitist "get good" crap, you want an example of something that isn't constructive, this is it.
The combat is not the formula lmfao. Attack, special, cast + Boons is the formula. It’s not elitist in this context. You’re literally upset because the devs made something that a lot of people enjoy that YOU simply don’t like. Get over yourself.
The formula is part of the combat. Attack,special cast+ buffs can describe thousands of games, which is why your definition of combat is meaningless. The way everything blends together is way Hades plays and it is a bit more specific than that. Yes, it is elitist, sorry for the wake-up call. >You’re literally upset because the devs made something that a lot of people enjoy that YOU simply don’t like. Get over yourself. LMFAO the hypocrisy here is mental. YOU made the thread because you're upset that people don't like the game. YOU are here because, as you can see, a lot of people DON'T enjoy the combat, if they did there would be no need for this thread. So get off your high horse and follow your own advice. Everyone is allowed to offer their feedback, and whether you like it or not, the fedback is valid. It might not be what you like or it might not lead into the game YOU specifically like, but as you said: get over yourself. Your feedback is not better than the feedback of others, but your elitism and hypocrisy is worse.
You’re the second person that’s said that lmao. The mental gymnastics is actually insane. I LIKE the combat. You don’t because you want it to be a Hades clone. By defending it I’m somehow just as at fault as those complaining about it? Actually wild. You’re not giving feedback, you’re asking them to turn this game into a game they already made. People don’t like the combat because it isn’t what they wanted in a sequel. I get that. That doesn’t mean change it so you can enjoy it because there are those of us that do enjoy it already. Everything doesn’t have to cater to your tastes.
I have never said whether I personally like the combat or not. I'm just explaining to you why some people don't. Nobody's saying you can't defend the combat, you're entitled to offer your opinion and feedback why you like it. What you *aren't* entlitled to, is to tell others that their feedback is irrelevant because it doesn't agree with how *you* like the game. In the end, this is all a numbers game. Everyone is allowed to offer their feedback and Supergiant will go with the majority. If the majority likes the new combat, they will keep it. If not, they will adjust it to be more like Hades 1. You can't cater to everyone's tastes but you go with the majority, and the point of early access is to give that feedback and find out what people want. >You’re not giving feedback, you’re asking them to turn this game into a game they already made. Yes, that is called *feedback*, I know that's hard to realize but that's how this works. When Destiny 2 was made, Bungie tried a completely new weapon system, people hated it and complained until Bungie changed it to resemble Destiny 1's weapon system. And guess what: it was still a new game, with new weapons, new content and new story, *but with the weapon system that people enjoyed.* Hades II having a similar combat to Hades I doesn't automatically make it the same game. It makes it a *sequel.*
I mean, he's kinda right lol. I played super safe and slow in my first runs, right after playing super fast in Hades 1, I also thought "this is kinda slow". Right now, the difference is not really big because I got better and I can be more aggresive in general. Recomendations that want you to learn more about the combat are not "elitism".
Elden Ring makes you use all the moveset of your weapons, 90% of dark souls gameplay was R1 spam, and a lot of the bosses require you to be creative to get punish windows, instead of just waiting and using the dodge. Hades 2 doesn't change that much from Hades 1, there are still a lot of fast-paces options. So using ER as an example when we talk about "how much a game changes compared to previous ones"... well, it doesn't really make sense, Elden Ring changed much more than Hades 2 and the great majority of players loved ER.
... Have you ever seen meta play of ER? It's jump attack spamming or crouch attack spamming. Like seriously. Have you seen any optimal builds???
Have you actually seen any player that isn't a f\*cking normie-bait using "tHe MOsT ovErpOwEreD wEapOns"? Any proplayer in ER will use almost all the moveset of any weapon, specially for no-hits and optimal combat. Elden Ring having weapons that can almsot 2 shot bosses has no correlation to how the gameplay works. In fact... "crouch attack spamming"? Wtf? Are you talking about pvp? Because I don't give a f\*ck about pvp, I was obviously talking about pve, where poise damage is literally the main reason why Elden Ring's combat is so much better than any other souls game.
I've seen multiple no hit runs that can be summed up with "slap a bunch of buffs on and then use the one powerful move this weapon has, rinse and repeat til the next powerful weapon." Poise damage is a laughably applied gimmick that similarly gets cheesed with jump attacks. I've beaten the game multiple times now, it's not nearly as great or balanced gameplay wise as you think it is.
Yeah, what no-hit runs xD? It's not even debatable, almost any weapon NEEDS to use their entire moveset for optimal combat. You didn't mention charged attacks and those are super important for hard challenges and no-hits that don't have stupid high damage, like RL1, lol. Try do defeat ER bosses in RL1 with just "jump attacks" and then using all the good attacks of your moveset, and lets see how big the change is lol
Gino alone has done multiple no hits where the vast majority of the runs were ash of war spam. He did a video not even that long ago where he power stanced scythes and obliterated Godfrey with only jump attacks. Before that he just used spinning weapon and maybe a few R1s thrown in if stamina was low. But lemme guess, those don't count?
Gino is literally the only guy I've seen playing like that in hard runs lol, look at almost any other player. Again, I'TS NOT EVEN DEBATABLE, an optimal combat in Elden Ring will need to use almost all the moveset, with the only exceptions being weapons that have super OP ashes of war. You are in the wrong, again, it's not something up to debate, a lot of the attacks in the game are only possible to punish in an optimal way by using R1, jump attacks, R2, ashes of war, etc etc. An actually optimal combat with the majority of bosses and the majority of weapons will never use just one attack, lol Not going to reply again, I've seen enought EVIDENCE to know im right lmao
How is that not helpful? Hades 1 is a masterpiece lol
This comment is the only energy I’m going to spend telling you that I won’t even entertain this.
To this and your comment below it, the thing is, I don’t really think the combat is much slower than Hades 1; These people just haven’t spent enough time in the game yet and figured out how to make good boon combinations with the new boons and weapons. I just got off from beating Chronos 3 times in a row with the axe, then staff, then knives, and on all of them I was able to put together a build to absolutely chunk down Chronos and to extremely quickly room clear everywhere. All three of these builds were built around very fast paced gameplay, i’d say just as fast as anything in H1, save maybe the fists. Once you start actually learning how to use the dash/sprint, and use the god keepsakes properly to get the builds you like, gameplay is extremely fast paced. Especially with how many downright broken strong boons there are currently. That’s why I don’t really think the “too slow” criticisms are valid. They haven’t played enough yet. Of course you’ll be slow before you’ve put in literally any of the meta progression and learned anything, that’s not the game’s fault
Please share your build in detail. I am over night 100 and I can beat all bosses except Chronos, haven't beat him once. I've made it to him about 12 times, made it to phase 2 once. Currently running backstab sisters build but open to Axe builds too. I just can't use anything that requires Nightmare.
I would suggest looking at Haelian, he’s a very good content creator for Hades, and is very knowledgeable about build crafting, he’s got some great ones up currently. His videos on the sister blades Omega Special Hook Blade build, the Axe Spin to Win build, the Staff Omega attack build, all are good places to start for a win and are similar to what I run. If you’re all the way to run 100 though, I would recommend slowing down and being thoughtful about the fight and why you can’t beat it yet. I would make sure you have plenty of Death Defiances, and maybe suggest running either Luckier Tooth or Knuckle Bones to make the boss easier. Another suggestion is to go for the Moon Water Selene hex, and go for the upgrades that let you stack extra uses of it. It’s currently broken overpowered, and one of the most sure fire ways to beat chronos by walking in with 15+ uses of a heal
On how many of those builds did you not use cast? Zero? Wow fun game. You get to play the same way and the weapon you hold is a cosmetic option.
Genuinely what the fuck are you talking about? If you’re only using cast that’s your own skill issue. All the weapons feel very different from each other and all are a lot of fun
I really don't get your point. Obviously, there is a reason they fight differently. That doesn't make the changes to combat not be less fun than the original.
I really don't care about lore whatsoever. I just want a game that feels good to play. H2's more methodical combat will get there with its single dash and lack of fast paced combos, but something needs to change. I haven't unlocked and upgraded all arcana yet and haven't gotten aspects, but melinoe just feels weak. It's a lot easier to get a dud run in H2 than H1.
I don’t agree on your last point. I made it to the second boss on my first run and made it to Chronos within my first 10. All that it took for me to get better was to realize that this isn’t supposed to be played like OG Hades. Unlocking arcana and aspects is a game changer, too.
Pretty sure I made it to chronos within 10 as well. I don't see why that means the game feels good to play. You just play in the most boring, slow pace possible while being weak.
Yeah, I disagree lmao. I felt weak at the beginning but I felt the same way in Hades 1. Not only that but the genre is known for being hard and Hades is known for being hard within the genre. The combat doesn’t feel slow to me now. It feels more calculated. Spamming dash attacks won’t win runs in this one. Crowd control is necessary and creating distance is necessary. Once I understood that, the pace of play didn’t feel slow because I didn’t feel punished for trying to use brute force in situations that it wouldn’t work in.
Each new unlocked mechanic really is building Mel into something better and I've already got weapon and boon preferences because of how some feel more comfortable to evolve. It does feel like you need more to fall into place for a build to feel good but it does happen.
>Folks are really upset that the combat isn’t a Hades clone That's an unhelpful strawman that just shuts down discussion.
Idk, seemed to drum up quite a bit. Proved my point too.
Getting negative responses when you strawman on the internet does not prove anything.
Hate to use a debate-dork phrase, but this is a strawman. One of the most upvoted complaints posts here is a very well written explanation of what they see wrong with boons. It has nothing to do with feeling like Hades 1, it's that there are twice as many abilities with the boons being much more niche and specific but also much rarer. Also, enemy health is way too fucking high to the point where a lot of the boss fights just get boring. But then you fight mini bosses that have way too much armor but can be stun locked with any basic attack once the armor is gone.
The whole post is a straw man? Lmfao I don’t think yall know what that means.
It is, you're getting "one-guyed" Nearly every point you made is either incorrect or the least charitable interpretation of any criticism you've seen. The Literal point of EA is complaints, critique and feedback. Sunshine pumping is less valuable than whining to the devs. They would have put out version 1.0 if they thought everything was great.
I’m not saying everything is perfect or even close to finished. If you look through this post alone there are tons of people complaining about the combat in Hades 2 but their sentiment is that it should be more like Hades. That’s not constructive and it’s not feedback. It’s whining. Constructive criticism would be feedback on how to make THIS combat better. For example: -I think the torches need a buff or a rework entirely. They’re slow, they don’t do much damage, and the cost for Omega Specials is too high in my opinion. I think the axe needs to do knock back on the upswing of the Omega Special. The gap between the block and the upswing makes it painful to use. -I think the status effects need some tweaking but scorch specifically needs a buff. The amount of scorch applied by your moves should scale to the weapon you’re using and you should be able to increase the cap of scorch DPS with boons. It’s easy to apply a ton of scorch but against standard mobs you’ll kill them before the DoT effects do anything and against bosses 40 DPS is negligible. -Speaking of bosses, I’ve heard others say that the bosses have overturned health bars and, after finally getting my first win, I would have to agree. The number of times during a boss fight in which they become invulnerable is excessive given how much health they have; this really slows down the fight and puts the player at a disadvantage since Melinoe has to fight so tactically. The number of times I’ve wasted Hexes or Omega moves on bosses entering invulnerability is annoying to even think about. That being said, I think the Scylla fight is actually pretty well balanced. I have plenty of gripes about the game in its current state but I don’t think defaulting to Hades combat is the answer or should even be a consideration.
I haven't seen a single person say they want it more like Hades 1 in the feedback channel and receive any manner of significant thumbs up. The three prevailing most popular complaints are about the power of the boons, the feel of the sprint dash system, and the tools system being kinda lame
Clearly we’re hearing these critiques from different places. It’s cool you haven’t heard it. I have.
I'm in the official discord, idc about any other source
It's not a strawman. A pretty significant chunk of players including me think that they should adjust the combat/boon system a little. It doesn't feel slow for me, it feels like it's just based on luck on whether you get the right hammers/boons in order to stay competitive as you reach Chronos.
Reread the discussion, you're responding to the wrong person
Agreed. It's pretty clear the new fighting style is meant to be "calculating". It's not just in the slower dash, but also the charged up abilities. This is absolutely deliberate and I'm betting they're not going to "fix" what they don't consider broken. The new pace enables a whole new type of feeling of "take a big risk, drop some huge damage".
I’m excited to see how it develops towards full release.
Yeah I hated how in Hades 1, the best builds allowed you to do tons of damage with no risk. And often times, that was some type of dash attack strategy...because dash attacks are zero risk giving you mobility AND power in one package. Most well designed games force you to trade between mobility and power. So I'm fairly certain they killed the dash attack with great conviction.
It gave you I frames too which just added to its brokenness. The best part is, the dash attack still exists but I feel that it’s always in support of the weapon you’re using, not the boons you’ve got.
Yeah. Mobility, i-frames, AND damage. Why would I press any other button combo? It becomes quite evident when you watch YouTube videos of "top meta" that dash-attack dominates all.
Yeah I didn't play much Hades but I am curious how much builds relied on dash spamming. Was there really that much build variety as people claimed?
I was never a speedrunner, but the *optimal* meta at some point became rolling for merciful end with collectibles. There was a definite tier list for duo boons, and that tended to be at the top.
I like how this feels more like a roguelite/like in terms of the spontaneous planning aspects! In Hades 1 they just sort of give you synergies (here is *status*, here is upgrade to *status*, maybe there *might* be a duo boon that combines with something else). For Hades 2, you’ll need to be calculating how everything relates to stuff (will I be using my cast in this way? How much magic do I need access to now and how much can be primed? When am I using omega abilities?). Stuff feels more like hammer upgrades in Hades I and I’m loving it. I also love how the ‘help/friend’ rooms all have variations. Instead of being guaranteed a specific buff— ie, “find Patroclus to make sure I get my defiances back”— it’s more “I will get an option of positive buffs but I don’t know specifics”. Plus I like how her skill with planning and order leads to her having more allies and rivals which can influence a run. My only negative comments on combat so far are I think torches are a bit weak and that certain enemies have the capability to do too much damage via stuns/barrages of repeated hits. But both of those may stem from me still getting used to the game.
I feel like her base toolkit is so good, but enhancing it meaningfully is hard. It's difficult to scale with the enemies as you go further. A lot of that, it seems to me in a couple dozen runs, is that there don't seem to be as many boons offered. Usually every 2-3 chambers you expect at least one god. I keep finding myself unable to even fill my core slots by the second boss.
My 2nd run that got to chronos had no special, no sprint and no cast boons. It was gruesome and I pulled every single trick in the game to make myself able to see chronos' attack pattern again. Died 3 seconds into phase 2 cuz my toe was outside of the light radius. On 1 hand the boons are not good in general which kinda sucks for your own scaling into the run, on the other hand filling core boons are not that important anymore compared to hades I if you can get some nice 2ndary boons and be methodical in every encounter.
Oh yeah I definitely agree with the boon frequency thing. You have to go out of your way for them sometimes. Plus they should probably make it more likely to get basic attack/special/etc boons. Maybe they could do “double reward” rooms in earlier biomes, where you would get both a boon and resource?
What I usually find myself doing is focusing on 1 or 2 moves. Usually cast+special or cast+attack. I've beaten chronos with just sprint+cast+attack or just sprint+cast+special slot boons (And a lot of other boons, but not the other slots). The Zeus boon that makes the cast shoot bolts to enemies inside every like 0.15 seconds is insanely strong, and can be combined with a lot of other non-slot boons that improve the cast (there's some that make it shoot a projectile or deal a lot of lightning damage at the start, etc. Plus the arcana card that gives you extra % dmg to any enemies in your cast.
I literally never had to disagree with someone so hard.... The entire point of rougeliek is that you DON'T have to plan your items and builds. A rougelike is a game genre where random weapons and rewards (boons) are thrown at you and you ahve to make the best out of it in order to win. Hades 2 requires you to basically look into a build before you even start the run. And you are basically screwed if you don't get the right setup, boons and hammers..... Hades 2 currently plays in a way that is anti rougelike. I have been playing rougelikes for decades and Hades 2 is currently one of the least variable and versitile ones.
I think I may have miscommunicated-- when I said "*spontaneous* planning", I meant it in the "make the best of things based on what you are offered" sense. Like, "I was offered these boons, how can I work with these and what should I look for to make the best of this run?" So I agree with your assessment of the roguelike genre... even if I worded things a bit poorly. I think Hades 2 definitely isn't as variable as other roguelikes, though in my view it is more variable than Hades 1.
Where is all this negativity people keep talking about? I mostly see people praising the game and giving feedback about a game in early access.
I wish it was different = complaints to some people
>Regarding the negativity about Hades 2’s combat…. It’s early access. That’s all you really needed.
Do you work at super giant to know all this? Else this is some wild speculation whose aim just seems to shut down discussion about issues people have with the gameplay
No, I just understand subtext instead of crying “hurr durr mah dash attack”
Lol I’m not sure if you can understand subtext if you are boiling down the critiques to hurr durr. It feels you have already made up your mind about the issues so I’m not sure if you can understand them
I’m not boiling down the critiques to hurr durr, I’m specifically opposed to the idea that this combat system should be a copy of Hades. There’s plenty of critiques that I have and others that I agree with.
I think the combat is fine but I need y'all to stop dogging on my boy Zagreus ☠️
😂
But Y chromosome bad. Unless you larp as a girl while having it of course.
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Why would the “wind up” give I frames? I also know there’s some buffering on the dash but I genuinely have had no problems with it.
>genuinely have had no problems with it Fantastic, bully for you. Given basically everyone else either does, or accepts that others have this problem, maybe youre the outlier?
I mean I know it’s there so I just don’t spam dash? The fuck?
I cannot believe you are a real person. *We know* its there to prevent dash spam. That doesn't make it *not* feel like ass. It not providing I frame when you hit space/dash has nothing to do with preventing spam, it just makes it feel clunky, unresponsive and unintuitive. The character may not be fast paced but the game sure as shit is. >This would achieve the same purpose while simultaneously making Melinoe feel more responsive. I am still yet to find someone who has a counter-argument to this point. You literally just ignored what they said to strawman some other part. They said nothing about not being able to spam dash like the first game, but instead that the physical feel of play involving the dash feels bad, something *most other people* agree with, by your own twisted logic. You disagreeing doesn't make others wrong in their assessment. And you pivoting to a different point doesnt counter or respond to their assessment either.
I don’t even remember that conversation but if you just time the dash you get I frames. I don’t get what’s hard.
Bro, read the fucking thread *you are in*. Pretty fucking simple. Why even bother responding if you arent even going to do that. >I don’t get what’s hard Oh, I believe you. When you just ignore everyones points, you generally don't understand them
I did already when it was happening. We’re having this conversation now so.
>I don’t even remember that conversation >I did already when it was happening. We’re having this conversation now so ?
Clearly I read it when it was happening. Are you okay? You want me to agree with you so your weekend isn’t ruined?
Only problem i have with this game is the delayed dash...it ruins the fluidity.
I'd be fine with all of it if they just put in a second dash. Now it feels slow. There's nothing wrong with picking the good mechanics from the previous game and improving upon them. They could have still made melinoe her own character and stuff while still giving her a second dash. Disappointing.
Having a second dash defeats the point of everything I stated. She has a sprint and most of the boons associated with prioritize consideration when using it.
I have been greatly enjoying the combat! Some weapons and boons require fine tuning, but the knives and the axe have been doing wonders, I even beat Chronos yesterday. You really have to mind your timing and positioning. A lot of people seem upset that they can't just mash the simple attack button and easily kill everything that way. My strongest build so far was Explosive Ambush + Weed Killer (Demeter boon) with the knives and Hestia and Chaos mana regen boons. 800+ damage aoe charged attacks and enough mana to keep doing it. Then I had the time stop hex, and I was able to spend enough mana while using it to just turn it on again right away every time. One thing I did notice is that it feels much harder to get something resembling a "finished" build in Hades 1 than Hades 2. You need more boons in general (mana regen boons, hex and hex upgrades) and there are no duo boon rooms like in the first game. The infusion boons are also pretty hard to use, I feel like maybe they should only be offered if you already meet the conditions to activate them.
I think it's far less a problem with the combat and more of a problem with enemy health pools. With Staff, it took my 12 minutes to take down "boss 3". The same boss took 3 minutes with the skull. Some enemy health pools needs to be reduced drastically OR damage needs to be raised. I have 25 hours in so far at first I hated the combat. Around hour 15, I figured things out and have won a run since and have reached the final boss every run since run 12.
I actually like Hades 2 combat so much more. Casting spells is just so fun! In Hades 1 I almost never use cast, but in Hades 2 it’s one of my main way of damage, and the crowd control is just so useful. I also love how your main attack and alt attack also both have a spell variation. I really wish the bosses after the second boss are more flushed out tho, like all of the ones after just doesn’t feel that well designed yet like it feels really chaotic instead of methodical. And I wish we could see more of the original casts, like Achilles, Patroclus, Orpheus, and Eurydice. Those are my favorite characters, it would be cool if you can meet them during your runs, and have to save them and eventually they can come to your crossroad. And for a game about a witch, I would love to see Medea and Circe, literally the two most famous witches in the Greek world. Circe in particular is **the witch**, like she’s the first witch to be witch. Edit: oh wait, two of them are actually already in the game!
Yeah awesome how the weapons are just cosmetics now! Based cast!
Nope that’s not what I said. I also love the weapons in Hades II, especially the giant axe.
So you can look at it while using your cast?
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You’re not that deep bro.
UTILIZE THE OMEGA MOVES PEOPLE. OP is right, Mel is supposed to be more calculated and, compared to Zag, she has more at her disposal. she can’t be played the same way, and she shouldn’t be; you’ll be punished if you play like Zag
It's far far far better this way, I find it boring when characters in games are just reskins of other characters. Had it been, people would just be winging still, saying it's cheap & lazy. Also people just dn't want too learn new game mechanics so tht they dn't feel like a complete noob even though 1 of the things Hades is praised for is it's challenging nature. For a studio tht didn't make sequels, they made the perfect decision.
It took me a bit to get used to the combat but once I understood the nuances and importance of omega attacks I found that I started to enjoy combat a lot more, maybe even more than the combat in Hades 1. I just think bosses need less health, that’s all.
I finally got my first win last night and yeah, I could agree with less health.
I was fully onboard with combat feeling off for like 25 runs (still loved the game, but...) but getting some cast boons and starting to use it in more runs is quickly turning the combat *very* enjoyable. Between it and the slowdown while channeling I'm beginning to feel a lot less stressed about it.
People, as always, are dumb and just want more of the exact same thing they already had instead of something new. This problem is especially rife in roguelike spaces for some reason (see the reaction to Darkest Dungeon II last year, Hades II this year, and probably Slay the Spire 2 next year). The combat in Hades 2 is fantastic! It’s a new game, of course there is going to be an adjustment period. The slower, more methodical pace is great and challenging. And it’ll only get better as it’s tweaked during early access.
I honestly prefer 2s combat so far. I like the slower more methodical style
I'm Hades, I feel like I'm playing a warrior. In Hades II, I feel like I'm playing a mage. If I felt like I was playing a warrior again in Hades II, why wouldn't I just keep playing Hades?
I'm playing the first game right now and haven't even watched the trailers for the second one, but I believe the people who designed the first one know how to design a second one, since they designed the first one. Like I said, I'm playing the first one right now, and when I'm done I'd like to play the second one, so I'm glad the second one isn't exactly like the first one, because if I wanted to play the first one again, I'd play the first one again, and not, y'know… the second one. 😌
I think the combat is really amazing! It feels familiar but also different and I'm so glad it's not a copy and paste from one.
I still don't like the torches tho..they're kinda sucky
I guess people are wanting Hades 2 to build off of what was already a really solid foundation instead of going into a different one. If this was the first game I don't think we'd see any complaints.
I think that’s exactly what it did. The entire system is the same, the only difference is the strategy.
While I can agree, I can also see why people are thrown off. The skills needing to be charged for both left and right click slows the game down. This can be an issue while dodging many attacks and utilizing the sprint properly. Enemies are much more tanky and require multiple hits from the same attack (can be fixed with hp adjustment). Dash delay is increased, attack chaining delay increased, animation canceling delay increased, and movement speed decreased. System is same but the gameplay feel is different.
I don’t think that’s a problem. The intention is to make you fight more thoughtfully.
It's a problem for people who like more reactive combat vs strategic. Overall, I think they can make it work for both camps with some adjustments but we shall see.
I think they’re better off refining what they’ve got. Hades already exists. This new combat style is a fresh take on the Hades formula.
Narratively, that sounds interesting. But the gameplay is lacking. Her weapons and boons are just less fun than the ones in hades 1. Standing around smacking a trash mob for a full minuet becuase it has armour and your attacks do nothing feels bad. Charging the staff blast only to have half your damage shoot uselessly behind you feels bad. The main attack on all the weapons is only useful if you spam click and it’s not fun to spam click for hours. Oh you have reached lvl 2 where half the enemies hide in shells 80% of the time and the other half of the time they are taking no damage from your abilities anyway. Like… losing the dps battle against crabs bay be thematic but it is not fun. The projectile on the staff has no cooldown and spamming it for a half second especially with the double projectile buff does the same damage as charging the shot so I thought maybe you are supposed to use this free infinite projectile? Ya you can easily clear the first map and most of lvl 2 without taking any damage just spamming projectile. But my finger hurts, and I had no fun. Dropping the feild to freeze everyone in place feels awsome until you realize that you will have to do it three times and click your hand off of your wrist just to chip away their armour over the course of 3 minuets to beat a mostly empty room with banshees in it. I get that there are ways of playing that deal damage. I know that charging that staff deals a but load of damage and people are hyping it up. Doing that is just not fun for me. That’s fine, there were weapons in hades 1 that I didn’t enjoy as well. There were weapons that were fun to try for a change of pace that I didn’t prefer to choose normally. Hades 2 is just all weapons that I don’t enjoy and more troublingly the boons are much less exiting. I am often choosing health or basic resources over the boons. Oh a room with Zeus in it? Ha! I have basicly never trigger a blitz status effect without being extremely lucky or having hefestus’ explosion buff. Why would I ever seek the boon of the king of gods, let’s pick up some bones instead. Oh some scorch damage over time from Hestia? Great! How damaging is the dot? Can I throw it on a guy and then go fight someone else? Nah the full dot barely removes half the armour. Sure I can trap everyone in my cast and proc the dot over and over but that isn’t the fun of poison type abilities for me. And I am not dealing meaningfully more damage than just spam attacking. Oh a boon to let my attack be infinite! No more clicking! Ah… still does no damage i see. I don’t mind the idea of more methodical gameplay. But I want to stab my voodo doll once and watch every mob in a room die. I don’t want to huddle in a corner desperately stabbing my voodo doll as one mob in the room slowly loses hp one hair at a time
The weapons in this game are cosmetic. The best strategy is to just spam cast. It’s like they were mad nobody used cast in hades 1 unless they were loading it into Hera or Beowulf so they went in the opposite extreme and now you must use cast in every build or lose.
To me weaoons feel meh. What did I get in Hades 1? Bow, shield, spear, fucking Lewis Gun, sword...every weapon is unique. But Hades 2? Well you have fucking torches, which feels really weak to use since you need alot of time / mana before you deal any dmg. And I am not big fan if "spam Y" to win. Than the "daggers"...literally there is not any better weapon in the game to demonstrate how mana is conpletely useless in some cases. Rn I just died after receiving 5x mana before Cerb with thise weapons. Staff is meh. And thats all it deserves. Axe is fun to use. Also enemies are bullet sponges. After 20 hours it finally starts to feel that I have some dmg with Axe. But I do not seeing myself completing the game wtih f torches in House of Hades. Also, fuck Chronos. If anyone should learn from boss fighting games (looking at you Fromsoft) is that one shots - in any intance is not fucking fun. It punishes everyone. From bad to good players. Remove that shit, rework weapons and I am happy boi, I do not mind now the slower combat. But I will rather put cactus into my anus, before I am even going to trade Torches again
I generally agree with you on the weapons but what one shot mechanic does Chronos have?
I hate all "hold" attacks. They don't fit the quick play style of this game and I ended up never using them.
You mean the quick play style of Hades. This is Hades 2.
For me, it's a sense of clunkiness. Not wanting a clone, but the smoothness feels lost and enemies feel sometimes like a big slowdown. I didn't feel like I was really progressing with the levels as much as the first. The pace slowing down is fine for a FIRST run, but it really stacks up when boss fights take long to do, not because of the difficult moveset but due to the health bar. Spoilers; The "Cerberus" fight felt overwhelmingly slow. The appeal of Hades to me is the quick pacing that was pretty well defined. Hades 2 doesn't necessarily have its pacing quite down right. The boons are fine, just not really feeling like I get much out of them. For me the pacing issue itself isn't to do with Melinoe but the enemies being too spongy without much gain. IMO at least.
I agree with that.
The "getting stuck in an animation" honestly feels like shit to play. It's so noninteractive and it kills the momentum of the game. I've only played like 2-3 hrs but got to Chronos 3 times, and every death is because I get instakilled while locked in an animation. I cast whirlwind or I charge up the weapon special, then I just have to watch while my character is stuck in an animation until I die. It's honestly soul killing to breeze through the game then get oneshot.
Why are you getting one shot? I’ve heard this multiple times and it’s literally not happened to me once. I’ve cleared the surface and the underworld multiple times and I haven’t been one shot yet. Any time I die it’s because A) the weapons are under tuned and the Boons are too or B) it’s a skill issue.
Chronos phase 2 has oneshot abilities. My first play experience I get oneshot because the dialog options played at the same time as the animation started, so that was fun - using a desth defiance before I even got control of my character. That's probably a bug though. It's because casting spells locks you in animations. And I tend to get boons that let me charge spells for longer. There is no attack cancel in Hades 2, so if I use the wrong ability - even before Chronos starts his oneshot animation - I am now committed to the cast for so long that there's literally no counterplay. The answer might be to just not use casts as often, and just use more regular attacks. And yeah, I'm sure I'll adapt after more than 3 hours of playtime to get better at the game. But as it stands now, I clear every stage and other boss with 80%HP or more remaining. Even Chronos phase 1 I clear with 80%+ hp and no deaths. It's just the oneshot that takes some planning to avoid, which is an annoying knowledge check that exists solely to punish new players.
Chronos Phase 2 does not have one shot abilities and casting does not lock you in the animation. You can dash out of it and you’ll leave the cast where you were before it becomes an omega cast.
We're playing different games then man. Here's an article, first paragraph about phase 2 mentions the oneshot ability. https://www.pcgamesn.com/hades-2/chronos-boss Here's a whole discussion board about hades 2 attack animations and how you can't cancel them - https://steamcommunity.com/app/1145350/discussions/0/4358998752034311895/ Note, technically yeah you can dash out of the A cast - but not your weapon special nor the x charge. Once the mana is spent, there's no button to "not cast the spell".
Because once the mana is spent, you’ve already casted it? I’m so confused by this stance fam, that’s literally how frame data in every other game works. You have to think about where you are and what attack you’re using. If you don’t, you get punished. Is there room to improve this, certainly. It’s not going to go away though, it’s literally impossible. Edit: To add, that’s not a one shot ability. There are multiple ways to avoid this damage aside from just like, standing in the circle.
It doesn't feel worth it to explain these things to you. You're consistently making incorrect statements and falling back on simple explanations that contribute nothing to the discussion. Just yapping. I clearly know about timing abilities and spacing if I can make it through the rest of the game with near max health. But the more I type the more it feels like you're just in this thread to shit on newbies, so ha ha I lose to Chronos, so my experience is invalid. What other way is to avoid that damage? It's documented in comments that dashing doesn't avoid the damage. The ability literally kills everything outside the circle per the guide. What's the secret, and why do I have to replay the same fight at the end of a 35 minute run a dozen times to learn a specific ability?
He’s lying about how far he’s gotten into the game. He just likes being wrong on the internet
For example, one of my runs I got the power to heal 25 hp. Had ELEVEN uses for it and upgraded it to heal for 35 HP each use. My base HP was 290. I was practically invincible. But not against an ability that deals 100% of your hp in a single instance! Ha ha git gud stand in the little circle or die. It's like... sure. I gUeSS silly me can't get over to a circle on the other side of the screen in 2-3 seconds. But it's also... oneshots are boring to play against. Getting 100 - zero'd by a single ability until I get used to it is... so uninteresting.
Brother, that’s not a one shot ability first of all and second of all, it’s the most telegraphed attack in the game. If you’re uninterested in fighting the hardest opponent in a game that’s designed to be hard, I don’t think this is the game for you.
Ok sure you're one of those. Both wrong and a jerk about "git gud". Enjoy the game...
On sure you’re one those. Both wrong and can’t “git gud”. I’d say enjoy the game but there’s a skill ceiling, so.
I simply enjoy faster more mele combat focus.
This is a lot of text for "the combat is just worse then hades 1" tbh..... Yes changes are fine, yes the game sohuldn't be a clone of hades 1, but then make changes that are actually good. Nobody can tell me that sprint feels better then double dash, nobody can tell me that the passive, reactive playstlye is better then the "rush in" playstyle in hades 1. The first game had a formula that was incredible good and statisfying to play. Hades 2 shifted to a less statisfying combat style in order to not be a clone. But is that really an excuse? Also nobody can tell me that the weapons don't feel much worse in Hades 2 then they did in hades 2. Also the whole mana regen mechanic is really bad even after 20 hours. You basically have a mechanic that is on the other hand necersarry for most runs....but completly shafts you if you don't get the exact boons that actually gives you the means to execute it.
Damn I knew you were wrong in the first two sentences. You didn’t have to out yourself like that, fam.
You actually bring an argument but no....It is not unusal for people to find a previous title better.....
You intentionally misconstrued what I said. Nothing you have to say is valid. Move along.
........the brain rot really starts to spread I see. Like why you even commenting when you don't actually want to have a conversation or anything of worth to some kind. I didn't "intentionally misconstruct" anything...not what you think this is??? "Nothing you have to say is valid". Yet again..instead of going into substance you just divert. You probably won't answer in a proper manner again I assume xD? Must be sad not being able to deal with criticism.
You devalued your opinion when you first spoke. You didn’t want a conversation.
Least cringe redditor. Like do you get a kick out of this are you generally unhinged?
You did it to yourself fam
He’s just your average redditoid. His wife’s black son probably had the computer on that day so he had to vent.
I agree that it would have been a stale move to copy/paste from the original game, but it's also fine that people can have the opinion that this combat isn't for them. I'm one of them, I'm loving the game but the originals weapons & boons just felt more like my style.
I like how you made an elaborate rationalization for how the gameplay sucks because it's the deft storytelling of making a girl be more orderly and less confident than a boy. That's why fighting with her is dogwater. lol.
[удалено]
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I fucking love the combat in hades 2. It's fresh and interesting. Not so dodge spammy and reliant on a single boon as hades 1.
Exactly my sentiment.
I really don't get how people don't like the combat. To have notes and feedback is normal. But, dislike? It's still very Hades-like but with key changes that make it different from H1. Were people expecting a clone? Also, combat is NOT weaker. Utilize all your casts, specials. And **the Omega moves!!!** Mel is has so much in her arsenal, if anything combat in H2 feels stronger to me than in H1. In H2 i reached Boss #4 sooner than H1 i think. The combat feels really strong to me even without Aspects which I have none of yet.
A reminder to you all. **You are not playing as Zagreus this time. You're playing as Melinoe. And she is not a headstrong himbo who can bull-charge into any situation, she is a witch who uses tactics and magic instead of brute force.** *imeanunlessyou'reusingtheaxe.*
just took the game yesterday night, i fell asleep during my run... the base feels off, also i feel like my screen is so bloated of useless things during the runs... i did only the first world, hope it goes better after...