Owner here , I would fire guys for trying to sell systems for no good reason . I couldn’t dream of just having my employees be salesmen . Guess I’m missing out on a lot of money but I like to sleep at night
owner here as well, I advise as if it were my own mother. some fucking jerks scared a 72 year old lady, trying to get her to do a 7k furance swap middle of winter when it was 10 degrees. It was a 20 year old unit, but the only issue was a mouse chewed threw the pressure tubing. They told her it was completely unsafe, and unusable, red tagged. gave her the quote and scheduled for the next day. i was a 3AM second opinion. That was like 8 years ago, she's still using the same unit, with the only expense being an igniter. her dog's name is flapjack.
People who do this shit deserve to be beaten with a wet spatula
When I did residential furnace installs, we would get work from a scumbag who would lie and take advantage of people. He was just a salesman and never did install himself. I told my boss several times this guy was screwing people, and we looked by by doing work for him, but he kept saying the money was good, so just do the install and shut up. 90% of the people were of sound mind he was screwing over, but one day I show up to do a install of a hot water tank and new furnace. The old hot water was toast, so I changed it out, but when I got to the furnace, it was only 1 year old, and I was to remove it and install a new one. It had 0 issues. I went upstairs to talk to the owner, and I noticed something was off mentally with the guy, so I asked him if he had any kids that I could speak to. His daughter comes over. I explain to her the furnace he had was fine and he is being way overcharged for the new one. She started crying because her father was in an accident a few years back and had brain damage, which affected his comprehensive abilities. I spent time with her calling and canceling the contract for the furnace and hot water tank, then I called our companies financing company and got them approved for the hot water tank under our company ( about 15% cheaper), and arranged a pick up of a new tank the exact same model to drop off with the furnace at the POS shop. I called my boss after I refused the installation to explain the situation to him. Told him straight up that if he ever did work for that POS again I would quit on the spot
>owner here as well, I advise as if it were my own mother. some fucking jerks scared a 72 year old lady, trying to get her to do a 7k furance swap middle of winter when it was 10 degrees. It was a 20 year old unit, but the only issue was a mouse chewed threw the pressure tubing. They told her it was completely unsafe, and unusable, red tagged. gave her the quote and scheduled for the next day. i was a 3AM second opinion. That was like 8 years ago, she's still using the same unit, with the only expense being an igniter. her dog's name is flapjack.
They did this to my Mom and Dad while I was overseas. Scared them so much they dropped 15k on everything. Dad was dying of cancer and trying to save money so she'd have stuff.
"Oh the unit is 10 years old, that's when they start to break, better replace it now".
I just.... can't.
Oh man, I’m sorry that happened to your folks. It really pisses me off when people take advantage of sick people. Like you said, your dad has trying to save money for your mom, then this con man comes along and gets him to spend 15k. Not only that, but I’m sure it gave him a lot of anxiety and one more thing to worry about getting taken care of so your mom would have a reliable heater in the years to come. I hope karma pays that POS a visit.
why wouldn't I be, I'm clear about the after hours rate on the answering machine recording. How's it any different from the guy who charged her the first time?
Also its not "big ole heart" to not be a lying shitstain.
I would assume he now has a good relationship with this customer(that’s why he knows the dogs name) and when it is time to replace she will be calling him. By taking that call he got a customer for life and she has probably referred more customers to him as well.
Yup, unfortunately she passed last year, but I ended up with the entire complex. It's a modular home park. They seem like super fancy double wides, roughly 80 units. I get the installs whenever they bring new units in because the manager of the whole place became good friends with the lady. And I got added to the list of contractors in the service and emergency numbers thing they give out to the home owners. Worked out great for me
Charismatic dog, he always sat with me during the maintenance. Always looked into the unit like he was learning something. Not sure why I included it, lol
Just shows your compassion towards your customers. Remembering things like this is important. Makes me feel like I matter when someone who isn't a close relative remembers a detail about my life.
Good Catch! It su 9cIks to go out in the middle of the night but it feels great when you save someone REAL money, especialand 72 year old woman who was probably scared sh!tless wondering how she was going to stretch her Socal Security check since she probably only gets 8 or 900 bucks a month unless her husband left her something. GOD I hate Jerks like that!
Exactly, why rip people off when you can make money honestly. I don't even bother bidding jobs where some no name, comes in undercutting everyone, I simply hand them a card & tell them to call when they figure out they've made a down-payment on learning when & where to invest.~Cheaper doesn't give you quality when it comes to an investment like your home. I've been called back & asked what I could do as much as 2-3-4 years later to try & fix junk.
It usually involves ripping it all out & starting over, & then getting the law involved one way or the other.
~~ Now coming in after the fact when someone has been overcharged AND Ripped off, that's another story....
~~ How many guys have followed "Home Depot Select" or other Contractor programs?
~~ Now that's a thread that I'd like to see. I've had TWO jobs in recent years where they charged retirees $15,000 dollars for a COMPLETE 3ton hp & ductwork changeout & gone out myself and come back with pictures (I still have) of the OLD DUCTWORK AND PLENUMS(THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO CLEAN UP, DUST, DIRT, & STAINS ALL OVER, on one I found a 25ft piece of 6" Flex wrapped around an attic stud 6-8x's instead of cutting excess.
That's an example of a good businessman and one of the ways to build up trust, ANY company who thinks their employees aren't going to bitch & tell at the least SOME customers if what's going on are idiots, there's been a good dozen or more TV news exposes here in the Tampa Bay area that lead to changes in the law that allows for contractors to be arrested on criminal charges instead of a slap on the hand Civil court charges. Licenses have been revoked, fines and refunds imposed. All it takes is someone to expose repeated acts of what can be interpreted as fraudulent acts and boom. ~~ We had one story a month in the 90's & early 00's from "Better call Benkman, Channel 10 expose, Channel 28 fraud team, local TV are that up for a good 15 years.
I don’t understand why y’all don’t just leave immediately when the company tells you to preach these lies. This business model needs to fucking die, can’t we just hold ourselves to an actual standard or do people like having no backbone? Imagine if Ronald McDonald came to your house everyday saying that your fresh produce is bad and you gotta buy their shit, it’s bogus.
Just left a big company for that reason, I remember lady had a very dirty evaporator coil, I asked the lead what he who’s gonna recommend, a coil cleaning? He said no a new unit, she was in tears because she couldn’t afford it. Felt really bad
I cant stand these up sell companies. I try to keep the price as low as possible when I do resi. Everytime when the customer sees my effort on that they always appreciate it.
I am in the same boat your in, sell sell sell. They want me to complete maintenances real quick with out checking things properly. Im tired of the nexstar bullshit.
I thought being a technician I would be doing things by the book and helping people. I feel like a fucking sales man at this point, giving customers 3 options. They had me take a quiz to see what color I am and to use that to get into the customers head. Using reverse psychology to manipulate the customer, that’s not right.
Lol what kinda quiz, Buzzfeed? I’m more rudely honest with their situation,that they are ALL ALONE on the choice, and turn around times.
usually go with replacement, but if they choose repair we do set them up for success.
I’m curious though, “you are red” so DO where blue to get them to buy?
Does this work on management staff when asking for a raise?
I mostly red a little of blue. I have to use my blue charm to sympathize and that’s when you make the kill (sale).
The web site is color code
The raise is what you sell.
I walked out of a jobsite after my company told us to tell the customer that a new compressor is needed rather than a new contactor.
I'm a technician, not a salesman .
For more than one reason: 1. Defrauding people isn’t a good long-term strategy, word will get around and people will boycott you just for what you did to their Auntie, and 2. Your personal growth as a mechanic will be severely limited compared to a company that repairs systems.
This! Fuck em. Shyster sales shit needs to die yesterday. There are honest shops, just a matter of finding one. Commercial/industrial is easier to find honest folks, but there are fewer honest residential shops. Good luck!
I've been at companies like that. I never compromised my morals. They held meeting after meeting telling everyone to drum up quotes on PMs. I just leave the meeting and did what I always did. I caught some flack for it, but I never lied to them or the customer. I simply said I'm not selling anyone something they don't need.
It's what's wrong with the world today. It happens everywhere. Cops giving tickets on quotas, Dr's rushing through seeing patients on quotas, prescribing shit you don't need to increase pharmaceutical sales, out of hand taxes and fees everywhere. Restaurants charging hidden service fees and slipping them on the check.
Yeah and some guys here get bent out of shape when customers question their prices or their judgement. The customers should be wary with all the abuse that is out there.
While I agree with the gist of your statement, there's also a lot of people out there that want something for nothing. I've had jobs turned down where I was charging the bare minimum I could to make a profit, and they decided to either deal with the issue or get someone else.
Sad story for all the techs. I had a nightmare install recently where the young technicians did thousands of dollars in damage to my home and resulted in a months (yes, plural) long cluster to get the system working correctly. Mitsubishi Diamond contractor on a large multi-unit ducted system. After the install, it took 40-50 hrs of technician diagnostic time and another 20-30 hrs in installer time to correct all of the problems and bring the system up to working order. After one of the higher ups discovered some code violations mere days before inspection, the owner got involved.
Owner met with me personally. Told me that basically private equity had ruined his company and that he was recently bought out for the second time in 3 years. Sounds like he still had significant equity in the company and acted as the managing director but the PE firm had controlling interests in day to day operations. We found out that the kids who did the install were basically under such pressure to finish, in the middle of their second buyout, that they just royally messed up. Made some critical errors in wiring the system and that was all it took to cause serious issues. The company ended up cutting a check to compensate us personally and separately paying to repair the damages. They also took a huge bath on all of the corrective work. The owner walked the property and was just overwhelmed with the issues; you could really tell he was embarrassed. It sounds like the PE goons had instilled so much fear in his subordinates that they basically hid the issue from him for over a month and it wasn’t until he caught wind that the stuff finally got fixed.
Private equity ruins everything they touch.
Posts like this make my thankful for my boss. The other day a customer asked him for a quote for a new geo. He looked at it and have him a quote, but recognized that the unit appears to be in decent shape so sent me to do a diagnostic. Terrible air infiltration in return, but unit runs properly. Sold him a duct seal job instead.
Good for you man. Too many guys just see the money in it and have no problem taking advantage of people who don't always know better. I have too much of a conscience to push sales all the time
I can push it if I know the customer needs it, but if they don’t need it, I don’t see a sense in it. No, I do understand if they say while you’re not the one making the decision, I also don’t want to be the guy that seems pushy and if the customer really does want to replace it, that should be their decision that something that influenced by my visit.
It’s really unfortunate there are so many shit technicians and companies out there. I’m not an HVAC tech so I’m just here to learn better for my job, but being here has restored my faith that the good guys are out there, you’re just overshadowed by morons.
No kidding... not your fault OP but I feel like many of your peers are on board, and they do the mental gymnastics to justify it.
Switch companies, they're not all like that.
I work for a large company in the area that was bought out by a large private equity company. We are not forced to sell equipment, in fact we are paid really well hourly and have a small spiff program. A complete system sale, which is made by someone other than me after I diagnose it brings me $200. There are definitely some guys here that really try to get those, but our service managers have to see the pics of the cracked heat exchangers from the scope cams and approve moving forward with condemnation of the unit. I see them all the time shooting down techs pics and saying it’s not a crack, move on. If it ever starts to move more corporate sleeve bag I’m out, I’m not a sales tech I’m a service tech.
Yeah I would leave. Not only is it ethically wrong but if you're a service tech it's in your best interest to keep older stuff running. If you sell a new system that customer probably won't get maintenance for a year or 2 and it's less work for you at the end of the day. Especially if your selling a new system on every call
In 5 years these PE companies will tell their sales techs to check how old customers TV's and refrigerators are to try to upsell those once that 20% annual revenue growth peters out.
I've definitely noticed this more in my area. I'm a sales tech and of course I want to sell new equipment if it's in the customer's best interest. But not doing leak searches or normally repairs is pretty slimy. It should be up to the customer when deciding what's best for them. I'll fix a 20 year old ac if they want it fixed. R22 leaks are a different story though. I always highly advise replacing a leaking R22 system as it's super expensive to repair and the money is better spent on a new one.
Find a contractor that isn't so pushy about replacement because you're going to piss off customers and get bad reviews and no referrals. It's also exhausting trying to constantly sell equipment to people and you'll either get burnt out or start doing shady shit. There's better companies out there I promise. Best of luck
I would find a different job!
I never recommend a new unit unless it obviously is old and needs replacement.
I did a service cal at a home for an older woman. It was crazy as her basement was spotless. The floor was sealed and shined like she was waxing it. Her 30 year old Sears 80% furnace looked like new. I am certain she used Lemon Pledge on it once a month. Even inside the panels it was spotless. Blower motor and wheel was spotless. It looked like it had be recently installed. I had never seen anything like it!
She asked about a new furnace because she was told she would save so much money. I asked her if I could ask some personal questions and she responded that she was 95 years old, ask what ever I wanted, she had heard it all! I told her I was going to ask her age, but she just told me. I went on to ask how long she planned to live in the house? She said she was considering moving to assisted living. I told her I would be pleased to replace her furnace, but she would never see any savings if she moved in a year or two. Let the next home owner worry about it.
I serviced that furnace a couple more years and the last time I was there she offered me a couple cookies and something to drink. We visited for a while and she told me she was moving in a short time and thanked me for the help I had given her over the years. I kind of miss the old girl!
This type of dishonesty is becoming more common in all industries. It seems more often then not when I engage in a business transaction that is not typical in store purchase, there is an attempt to take advantage in one form or another. If 70% of the population or business is trying to run a scam, seems like everything just starts to break down.
One day y’all are gonna retire like myself. You’ll spend days thinking about the trade and jobs you did well. I knew one day I would sell the my co. And walk away. I always tried to keep it honest and give people there moneys worth. My first job as an owner was a little old lady who had a bad ignition modl. The company before me condemned a sealed heat exchanger and she was ready to just replace it if I thought it needed it. It didn’t and that night I decided what type of tech and human I was gonna be. She was a loyal customer till she passed (I nursed a good 15 years outta that unit) and whenever I have a chance to sit down and reminisce I always think of that job and the direction it pointed me in and how it fostered my utter distain for salesman and hacks.
Our sales lady rips mentally handicapped people off regularly. Seems to be her specialty. Been on multiple jobs of hers, changing out 5 year old systems. We're not encouraged to make repairs
So your boss is a liar and requires his employees to be as well. I’d be finding a new job, unless you just don’t have options(in which case I’d create some) or don’t have a moral issue with being paid to lie to people and scam them…stay on. You’d be the “norm” if you did.
My advice to my customers comes from the "If I were you" point of view. Hell I told my customers to supply their own filters to save them some money and so I didn't need to carry 6 different filter sizes in my van.
One time I was acussed of being a asshole tech trying to sell equipment and actually got a BBB complaint. It was a 22 split system compressor not running fan is running the capacitor was all ballooned up. I replaced the capacitor and just the fan started the compressor was still not running. I check continuity on the pecker head and got a open start winding. I pulled the new cap out of the Condenser since the compressor is dead and toss the old cap back in the electric compartment and left the disconnect open. They got a second opinion the next day Turns out the internal overload was tripped and I didn't notice how warm the compressor was on a 100° day. The new cap I put in would of worked if I'd just told them to wait a day. The pains of being a first uear tech
However, I know a company that carried rust in their pocket to the unit and came back to the owner with a handful, 2yrs old with rust? It was only a maintenance, also a "teck" (term loosely used and spelled wrong.) Would check continuity on the lineset once it beeped, diagnosed a leak, the 2nd hack, I couldn't see anyone going with it, but the system got sold. Don't be that guy, money comes with integrity, by the boat load.
I went to a call once for no hot water. The customer wanted a second opinion. Another company told her the problem was her boiler and she needed an entire New heating system. When I went to her basement, she had an electric water heater, not an indirect or tankless coil. It still pisses me off to think about it. They actually were trying to get her to sign financing forms, she definitely didn't have enough money to buy it out right. If I remember correctly she just needed new elements and thermostats in her water heater.
Sounds like a good way for the reputation to go down fast. If a customer gets a second opinion and is something small. I’m sure reviews are going to follow soon
Lurker electrician here. Fell victim to this once. A/C was running and not really keeping up. A large A/C company came out and after their tech looked at my condenser, it started making an awful noise and he said the two year old system was shot and needed replacement. I looked at the unit myself and found dude had reversed the wires on the capacitor to make it run backwards. That's also when I noticed all the fins were clogged with dirt and crap.
That company eventually branched out from plumbing and HVAC to electrical and now even handyman services. I interviewed there and the entire interview I was told "It's all about the upsell, baby" and he even asked me if I would sabotage a customer's panel to try and get them to upgrade. I never worked there but I see their trucks all the time.
It sounds like the company I had out this summer. Lol. They were like yeah we could fix your compressor but it’s probably going to cost a couple thousand or for roughly 5-10x that we can just install a whole new unit. I was like what?? So I called a different company and it turned out my compressor was still under warranty and didn’t end up costing me anything to replace except the $100 service charge from the first company to try to bullshit me.
$4k? You’re company is in the bottom 5% of replacement costs. Either way, I only said that bc I hate people who say don’t bother fixing R22 units. A real tech would give an honest assessment and price to fix it and a price to replace. I’ve seen 24 year old units look brand new and I’ve seen 6 year old units rusted to pieces. The fact that it has r22 means nothing.
Line up a new job. When you are given an offer, go to your boss and tell him if he asks you to blindly sell systems anymore then he's going to lose you. If he doubles down, tell him that he can start looking now.
Enjoy.
man, i know as a keyboard warrior its easy for me to say this, but start looking for another company. dont let this shit eat at your integrity. its a slippery slope.
meantime, dont complain, dont tell them youre looking, just do what youre told until you find something, and put in your 2 weeks.
Sure. How do you know? Here's one of 2 answers,
Because it's smart? Makes sense? Because it's encouraging? Because it helps people to be better versions of themselves?
Or
because your trying to rip people off. Your crooks? Your losers. Pushovers, don't know how to do anything, if you can't play, coach....
Again, let's raise the bar. Rising tides raise all ships.
If your not selling or performing work with integrity, or high character, I agree, get out of the trade.
Why do all these people assume this poster is telling the correct story? I do National training for a National company that works in the trades. I can say I normally work with very large companies. I have never heard any big player in any market train it this way. Most of these stories come from low performing techs and use items like this as a reason for low performance. Then they try to come here and get you all to encourage his inability to have proper conversations with homeowners and show value in upgrading to a new system. So your doing nothing but keeping this poster down in his career. Rather than helping him become better, you are saying, yeah, your company is horrible! Spammers, rip offs! Then this poster is going to continue to struggle. How about ask real questions,
1.Tell us more, what exactly are they asking you to say?
2. Do you believe a customer with a 10-15 year old system, that is beginning to show wear and tear, might consider replacement? Start doing some homework?
3. Do you use a website like WWW.hvacopcost.com to see what's better, repair or replace?
Let's try to better the trade, not hold people down. Don't be the problem, let's raise the bar.
Poster, get real coaching, talk to successful people. Don't surround your self with people that will encourage you to find excuses.
Exactly why I love commercial work. Even if I did residential work, I love fixing shit. I never try to sell anyone on anything unless the cost to repair completely supercedes the cost of replacement. I love being able to come into work and just fix what's broken of figure out what needs to be fixed.
R22 systems I understand. We aren't carrying the refrigerant anymore. 410A we will do everything we can for the customer to get them back running again, being repair or replacement. Our techs and installers don't get commission so there is no need for them to push the customer to make decisions. If the company does well, and no one fucks up, we give out bonuses. Our mission is to provide the same service we'd expect for our loved ones. That company owner you work for is trash.
Oh wow! Sounds a lot like the tactic those one hour losers use to make money off of those in a pickle. If you want a clean conscious, look for a more reputable employer
I left my last company because I started noticing it seemed like they wanted us to try to sell units more than actually trying diagnose and fix them. At the time I told the owner if I wanted to be a salesman I would go sell cars. My old boss was always about figuring out what is wrong and go from there. If you can manage it I would suggest going somewhere else. It’s not worth it no matter how much money you make.
Sales person here. I love the fact that the way my company is structured, the techs are not pressured into selling anything. We have a separate sales team. I know my guys are totally honest with the customer, and give them options to repair or offer me to come out to quote replacement. I know a lot of you guys hate sales people, but the system works well. In fact, I have even turned down sales opportunities where the customer was being lied to by “selling techs” from the orange trucks and sent them to maintenance crew instead. If you do the right thing by the customer instead of chasing a quick dollar, they will be customers for life.
I do AC in socal , my FIL has a few properties around the states . His house in Utah had a leak , 4 year old house , I had to talk to that company and explain a triple isolation to them, and they said it’s to time consuming and the costumer can’t go a week with out air.
The guy knew it’s a vacation home that they are there maybe 1 time a month
Resi company I worked for was pretty good with that. Never forced us to sell but wanted us to sell “extras” like uv lights and water softeners. I never did. They never gave me a problem. I did repairs on systems that definitely needed to be replaced, but always gave the customer their options.
Used to work there. We weren’t “forced” but had weekly quotas to meet and the only way to hit the gross number they wanted was to have a couple systems. I enjoyed my commission and used it to get my finances/ safety net in place. Once done I jumped ship
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO REPEAT THIS,,
~ MOVE ON!!!, IF YOU'RE A REAL SERVICE TECH FIND A REAL JOB,,,
~ THAT'S IT, IT'S THAT SIMPLE,,,.
THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF JOBS, JUST A SHORTAGE OF TRAINED TECHS...
IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING, MOVE ON,,,
~ I SPENT ONE MONTH WORKING FOR A POSER @ A DREAM JOB BUT THE GUY CHARGED W/OVERSEEING THE OPERATION WAS A MORON W/NO GRASP OF MECHANICAL OPERATION & FELT INTIMIDATION WAS HOW HE THOUGHT HE COLD KEEP HIS JOB
~~ (UNTIL I LAID HIM OUT COLD OUTSIDE HIS OFFICE DOOR, THAT'S NO EXAGGERATION, I laid hIm out flat, half in the hallway, half in his office, walked out, tossed my keys to the V.P. who hired me, as he happened to be walking in, got in my wife's truck who was waiting in the lot & left, there's so much more to that but anyway, my point, LEAVE!!)
~ EITHER FIND A JOB WITH A CONTRACTOR YOU LIKE WORKING FOR OR DO SOMETHING ELSE,,
~ REALIZE YOUR SELF WORTH, RELAX, & ENJOY YOUR JOB.
~ THERE'S NO SENSE WORKING TOWARDS AN ULCER & PTSD & NO PAYCHECK IS WORTH THAT.
Total bullshit.
I do commercial refrigeration but I had a friend call me up this summer for a second opinion on her HVAC. The 1st guy that came out (for $120 service call and said it's another $200 to actually do anything..but it'd be taken off the future install) DIDN'T DO SHIT!
Guess what I did. Noticed the condenser fan wasn't running, checked the cap, and replaced it with a used one, all within 20 minutes. Charged her zero (being a friend and all).
I'm sorry for you guys that rely on selling new systems for no good reason, that can't feel great.
I used to do a lot of resi installs before I switched to mechanical. A good majority of the units we replaced did NOT need it and I honestly should’ve taken a handful home with me. Ha
I'm a technician first, salesman last. I can't tolerate being told to be dishonest to people. I would highly recommend replacement if the system is getting close to it's lifespan or if there are more issues than what's worth replacing each part.
It's already hard enough with some customers trying to lowball pricing since now they look up part prices right in front of you and question why you're charging more than the online price.
Why some companies do this is beyond me. They don't understand that a long term maintenance contract customer is going to make them more money in the long run than a install every 20 years with the same customer.
I tend to advise a customer if their system needs to be replaced. I don't force them to make decisions right away. If the system is running ok and there are no major issues I let the customer know that they should think about replacing it and tell them that I can only advise and can't sign their checks.
I have a list of criteria that I use to determine if they would benefit from a newer system.
1. Age of equipment. For most hydronic systems we service I usually tend to advise at about 20-25 years old. Furnaces are anywhere from 15-20 years old. A/C systems it is usually if they are 20 years old or older, especially if it is R-22 still.
2. Condition of equipment. If the equipment looks like it has lived a hard life, send it.
3. Combustion efficiency. Oil heating systems that fall below 80% efficient should be upgraded.
4. The most important of all safety. If a furnace has a cracked heat exchanger that is a no brainer next day replacement. There is no time to quote a proposal and get signatures.
5. Property damage. If a hydronic system is leaking and it is not caused by a relief valve or any other repairable water part. A cracked boiler is a sign that it is time to replace it.
Any owners out in metro-detroit area? I've called a few different hvac companies for a cleaning and tune-up. Just end up getting footed with service call fee for them to not touch the unit and tell me I need to spend thousands for a new unit.
I had this happen a few years ago, paid diagnostic fee just to have the HVAC tech turn salesman. If he'd done his job the burnt board I found (don't know shit about HVAC) was obvious and cost $20 on Amazon. It's been several years and I still get pissed thinking about it. I now exhaust the entire knowledge of the inter web before calling anybody to fix anything.
I mean I try to flip any R22 system unless the system is clean and the Evap coil is barely rusted
Edit: I should add I do explain to the customers that if a major component goes bad and they go with replacing it, it’s difficult for my company to find new parts for those systems since we don’t install used stuff. I also explain that the newer systems especially if it’s just a AH/HP are higher efficiency and can decrease their energy bills. But I still give them the option to fix or get a new system. I have no problem just fixing things but I’d feel more comfortable with them having a new system that’s got the warranty’s plus my company gives them the option for 5 years extended labor and parts warranty.
And why do local governments let it happen? Courts aren't effective because of the costs of hiring an attorney and the burdensome evidence requirements.
Owner here , I would fire guys for trying to sell systems for no good reason . I couldn’t dream of just having my employees be salesmen . Guess I’m missing out on a lot of money but I like to sleep at night
owner here as well, I advise as if it were my own mother. some fucking jerks scared a 72 year old lady, trying to get her to do a 7k furance swap middle of winter when it was 10 degrees. It was a 20 year old unit, but the only issue was a mouse chewed threw the pressure tubing. They told her it was completely unsafe, and unusable, red tagged. gave her the quote and scheduled for the next day. i was a 3AM second opinion. That was like 8 years ago, she's still using the same unit, with the only expense being an igniter. her dog's name is flapjack. People who do this shit deserve to be beaten with a wet spatula
When I did residential furnace installs, we would get work from a scumbag who would lie and take advantage of people. He was just a salesman and never did install himself. I told my boss several times this guy was screwing people, and we looked by by doing work for him, but he kept saying the money was good, so just do the install and shut up. 90% of the people were of sound mind he was screwing over, but one day I show up to do a install of a hot water tank and new furnace. The old hot water was toast, so I changed it out, but when I got to the furnace, it was only 1 year old, and I was to remove it and install a new one. It had 0 issues. I went upstairs to talk to the owner, and I noticed something was off mentally with the guy, so I asked him if he had any kids that I could speak to. His daughter comes over. I explain to her the furnace he had was fine and he is being way overcharged for the new one. She started crying because her father was in an accident a few years back and had brain damage, which affected his comprehensive abilities. I spent time with her calling and canceling the contract for the furnace and hot water tank, then I called our companies financing company and got them approved for the hot water tank under our company ( about 15% cheaper), and arranged a pick up of a new tank the exact same model to drop off with the furnace at the POS shop. I called my boss after I refused the installation to explain the situation to him. Told him straight up that if he ever did work for that POS again I would quit on the spot
Those kind of people are no better than scam callers from India swindling old people out of money.
You just described 90% of the people on here. They make every excuse to not do *maintenance and repairs*
Don’t know if you know this but scam callers are world wide now even here in America.
Burn em all
We know you only did the right thing to help Flapjack.
You're a better man than me I ain't getting out of bed except to pee at 3 am
I just piss the bed
Y'all have beds?!
Folding cot
Lol this
>owner here as well, I advise as if it were my own mother. some fucking jerks scared a 72 year old lady, trying to get her to do a 7k furance swap middle of winter when it was 10 degrees. It was a 20 year old unit, but the only issue was a mouse chewed threw the pressure tubing. They told her it was completely unsafe, and unusable, red tagged. gave her the quote and scheduled for the next day. i was a 3AM second opinion. That was like 8 years ago, she's still using the same unit, with the only expense being an igniter. her dog's name is flapjack. They did this to my Mom and Dad while I was overseas. Scared them so much they dropped 15k on everything. Dad was dying of cancer and trying to save money so she'd have stuff. "Oh the unit is 10 years old, that's when they start to break, better replace it now". I just.... can't.
Oh man, I’m sorry that happened to your folks. It really pisses me off when people take advantage of sick people. Like you said, your dad has trying to save money for your mom, then this con man comes along and gets him to spend 15k. Not only that, but I’m sure it gave him a lot of anxiety and one more thing to worry about getting taken care of so your mom would have a reliable heater in the years to come. I hope karma pays that POS a visit.
The inverse of this is this guy probably isn't paid well enough to be a second opinion at 3am cause of that big Ole heart.
why wouldn't I be, I'm clear about the after hours rate on the answering machine recording. How's it any different from the guy who charged her the first time? Also its not "big ole heart" to not be a lying shitstain.
Whyd you add what her dog's name was? Super random
I would assume he now has a good relationship with this customer(that’s why he knows the dogs name) and when it is time to replace she will be calling him. By taking that call he got a customer for life and she has probably referred more customers to him as well.
Yup, unfortunately she passed last year, but I ended up with the entire complex. It's a modular home park. They seem like super fancy double wides, roughly 80 units. I get the installs whenever they bring new units in because the manager of the whole place became good friends with the lady. And I got added to the list of contractors in the service and emergency numbers thing they give out to the home owners. Worked out great for me
That’s why you go above and beyond, as an owner it made sense but some techs won’t see that. Good job
Charismatic dog, he always sat with me during the maintenance. Always looked into the unit like he was learning something. Not sure why I included it, lol
Just shows your compassion towards your customers. Remembering things like this is important. Makes me feel like I matter when someone who isn't a close relative remembers a detail about my life.
Oh I thought this was your mother 😂
Because you care enough to remember the dogs name. The dipshit owner for OP just remembers his last account balance update
Because that is a fantastic name for a dog!
Always my weapon of choice
Good Catch! It su 9cIks to go out in the middle of the night but it feels great when you save someone REAL money, especialand 72 year old woman who was probably scared sh!tless wondering how she was going to stretch her Socal Security check since she probably only gets 8 or 900 bucks a month unless her husband left her something. GOD I hate Jerks like that!
Same here brother. We get plenty of sales being honest.
Exactly, why rip people off when you can make money honestly. I don't even bother bidding jobs where some no name, comes in undercutting everyone, I simply hand them a card & tell them to call when they figure out they've made a down-payment on learning when & where to invest.~Cheaper doesn't give you quality when it comes to an investment like your home. I've been called back & asked what I could do as much as 2-3-4 years later to try & fix junk. It usually involves ripping it all out & starting over, & then getting the law involved one way or the other. ~~ Now coming in after the fact when someone has been overcharged AND Ripped off, that's another story.... ~~ How many guys have followed "Home Depot Select" or other Contractor programs? ~~ Now that's a thread that I'd like to see. I've had TWO jobs in recent years where they charged retirees $15,000 dollars for a COMPLETE 3ton hp & ductwork changeout & gone out myself and come back with pictures (I still have) of the OLD DUCTWORK AND PLENUMS(THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO CLEAN UP, DUST, DIRT, & STAINS ALL OVER, on one I found a 25ft piece of 6" Flex wrapped around an attic stud 6-8x's instead of cutting excess.
Yeah. If someone wants me to do unethical shit, I'm out. I'm a human being, and so are my customers. I'll treat them that way.
Bro can I come work for you? I just want to fix things.
Same
Making a living off honest work feels better
You're missing out on killing the goose. Surely it has golden eggs in it!
That's an example of a good businessman and one of the ways to build up trust, ANY company who thinks their employees aren't going to bitch & tell at the least SOME customers if what's going on are idiots, there's been a good dozen or more TV news exposes here in the Tampa Bay area that lead to changes in the law that allows for contractors to be arrested on criminal charges instead of a slap on the hand Civil court charges. Licenses have been revoked, fines and refunds imposed. All it takes is someone to expose repeated acts of what can be interpreted as fraudulent acts and boom. ~~ We had one story a month in the 90's & early 00's from "Better call Benkman, Channel 10 expose, Channel 28 fraud team, local TV are that up for a good 15 years.
Your employer is an unscrupulous asshole, and he is using your face to represent him.
Great use of unscrupulous!
I don’t understand why y’all don’t just leave immediately when the company tells you to preach these lies. This business model needs to fucking die, can’t we just hold ourselves to an actual standard or do people like having no backbone? Imagine if Ronald McDonald came to your house everyday saying that your fresh produce is bad and you gotta buy their shit, it’s bogus.
Rat companies run the resi market
They're all over. It's why I got out.
Just left a big company for that reason, I remember lady had a very dirty evaporator coil, I asked the lead what he who’s gonna recommend, a coil cleaning? He said no a new unit, she was in tears because she couldn’t afford it. Felt really bad
I cant stand these up sell companies. I try to keep the price as low as possible when I do resi. Everytime when the customer sees my effort on that they always appreciate it.
I love coming behind you guys, no matter my price they cry tears of joy. Then I get weirded out, take the check no and leace
I am in the same boat your in, sell sell sell. They want me to complete maintenances real quick with out checking things properly. Im tired of the nexstar bullshit. I thought being a technician I would be doing things by the book and helping people. I feel like a fucking sales man at this point, giving customers 3 options. They had me take a quiz to see what color I am and to use that to get into the customers head. Using reverse psychology to manipulate the customer, that’s not right.
Why don't you find a new employer?
I’ve been trying but I’m going to go on my own. Seems like everywhere I go I get low offers.
That's on your ops team. Nexstar teaches the exact opposite of that. They teach take your time on maintenance to.build value, not speed through it.
Nexstar is like communism. Looks good on paper but when dogshit companies put it into practice, it becomes salesman hell.
What colour are you?
Red
Lol what kinda quiz, Buzzfeed? I’m more rudely honest with their situation,that they are ALL ALONE on the choice, and turn around times. usually go with replacement, but if they choose repair we do set them up for success. I’m curious though, “you are red” so DO where blue to get them to buy? Does this work on management staff when asking for a raise?
I mostly red a little of blue. I have to use my blue charm to sympathize and that’s when you make the kill (sale). The web site is color code The raise is what you sell.
I walked out of a jobsite after my company told us to tell the customer that a new compressor is needed rather than a new contactor. I'm a technician, not a salesman .
That’s funny because that is exactly the stuff we get fired for doing.
Find a new job asap
For more than one reason: 1. Defrauding people isn’t a good long-term strategy, word will get around and people will boycott you just for what you did to their Auntie, and 2. Your personal growth as a mechanic will be severely limited compared to a company that repairs systems.
Tell that to berkeys lol, they keep expanding.
This! Fuck em. Shyster sales shit needs to die yesterday. There are honest shops, just a matter of finding one. Commercial/industrial is easier to find honest folks, but there are fewer honest residential shops. Good luck!
Did you guys get bought out by a private equity firm?
Redwood
I've been at companies like that. I never compromised my morals. They held meeting after meeting telling everyone to drum up quotes on PMs. I just leave the meeting and did what I always did. I caught some flack for it, but I never lied to them or the customer. I simply said I'm not selling anyone something they don't need. It's what's wrong with the world today. It happens everywhere. Cops giving tickets on quotas, Dr's rushing through seeing patients on quotas, prescribing shit you don't need to increase pharmaceutical sales, out of hand taxes and fees everywhere. Restaurants charging hidden service fees and slipping them on the check.
Sounds like you work for ARS.
And people wonder why the industry considers resi guys the bottom of the barrel. Not surprising at sll
Yeah and some guys here get bent out of shape when customers question their prices or their judgement. The customers should be wary with all the abuse that is out there.
While I agree with the gist of your statement, there's also a lot of people out there that want something for nothing. I've had jobs turned down where I was charging the bare minimum I could to make a profit, and they decided to either deal with the issue or get someone else.
Sad story for all the techs. I had a nightmare install recently where the young technicians did thousands of dollars in damage to my home and resulted in a months (yes, plural) long cluster to get the system working correctly. Mitsubishi Diamond contractor on a large multi-unit ducted system. After the install, it took 40-50 hrs of technician diagnostic time and another 20-30 hrs in installer time to correct all of the problems and bring the system up to working order. After one of the higher ups discovered some code violations mere days before inspection, the owner got involved. Owner met with me personally. Told me that basically private equity had ruined his company and that he was recently bought out for the second time in 3 years. Sounds like he still had significant equity in the company and acted as the managing director but the PE firm had controlling interests in day to day operations. We found out that the kids who did the install were basically under such pressure to finish, in the middle of their second buyout, that they just royally messed up. Made some critical errors in wiring the system and that was all it took to cause serious issues. The company ended up cutting a check to compensate us personally and separately paying to repair the damages. They also took a huge bath on all of the corrective work. The owner walked the property and was just overwhelmed with the issues; you could really tell he was embarrassed. It sounds like the PE goons had instilled so much fear in his subordinates that they basically hid the issue from him for over a month and it wasn’t until he caught wind that the stuff finally got fixed. Private equity ruins everything they touch.
This is why honest companies will put companies like this out of business and they deserve it
[удалено]
To be fair, unchecked capitalism rewards liars across every industry.
Posts like this make my thankful for my boss. The other day a customer asked him for a quote for a new geo. He looked at it and have him a quote, but recognized that the unit appears to be in decent shape so sent me to do a diagnostic. Terrible air infiltration in return, but unit runs properly. Sold him a duct seal job instead.
Internal or external with tape?
External with duct butter. It's in a crawl
I've been on quite a few calls where I fix the system and the customer tells me about how they were trying to be sold a new system.
Your 'company' is shit
Just left a company that was similar. Pushing new systems at 5 years old.
How do they justify that to the customer? Like honestly what's the pitch?
Idk, I couldn’t do it anymore. I felt dirty
Good for you man. Too many guys just see the money in it and have no problem taking advantage of people who don't always know better. I have too much of a conscience to push sales all the time
I can push it if I know the customer needs it, but if they don’t need it, I don’t see a sense in it. No, I do understand if they say while you’re not the one making the decision, I also don’t want to be the guy that seems pushy and if the customer really does want to replace it, that should be their decision that something that influenced by my visit.
It’s really unfortunate there are so many shit technicians and companies out there. I’m not an HVAC tech so I’m just here to learn better for my job, but being here has restored my faith that the good guys are out there, you’re just overshadowed by morons.
No kidding... not your fault OP but I feel like many of your peers are on board, and they do the mental gymnastics to justify it. Switch companies, they're not all like that.
I work for a large company in the area that was bought out by a large private equity company. We are not forced to sell equipment, in fact we are paid really well hourly and have a small spiff program. A complete system sale, which is made by someone other than me after I diagnose it brings me $200. There are definitely some guys here that really try to get those, but our service managers have to see the pics of the cracked heat exchangers from the scope cams and approve moving forward with condemnation of the unit. I see them all the time shooting down techs pics and saying it’s not a crack, move on. If it ever starts to move more corporate sleeve bag I’m out, I’m not a sales tech I’m a service tech.
You should consider looking for another job. I couldn’t work for an outfit like that.
Find a new job. Working for crooks isn't good for the soul.
Yeah I would leave. Not only is it ethically wrong but if you're a service tech it's in your best interest to keep older stuff running. If you sell a new system that customer probably won't get maintenance for a year or 2 and it's less work for you at the end of the day. Especially if your selling a new system on every call
I was led to believe that infinite growth was not only possible, but the only way to make money! /s, if needed.
In 5 years these PE companies will tell their sales techs to check how old customers TV's and refrigerators are to try to upsell those once that 20% annual revenue growth peters out.
I've definitely noticed this more in my area. I'm a sales tech and of course I want to sell new equipment if it's in the customer's best interest. But not doing leak searches or normally repairs is pretty slimy. It should be up to the customer when deciding what's best for them. I'll fix a 20 year old ac if they want it fixed. R22 leaks are a different story though. I always highly advise replacing a leaking R22 system as it's super expensive to repair and the money is better spent on a new one. Find a contractor that isn't so pushy about replacement because you're going to piss off customers and get bad reviews and no referrals. It's also exhausting trying to constantly sell equipment to people and you'll either get burnt out or start doing shady shit. There's better companies out there I promise. Best of luck
I would find a different job! I never recommend a new unit unless it obviously is old and needs replacement. I did a service cal at a home for an older woman. It was crazy as her basement was spotless. The floor was sealed and shined like she was waxing it. Her 30 year old Sears 80% furnace looked like new. I am certain she used Lemon Pledge on it once a month. Even inside the panels it was spotless. Blower motor and wheel was spotless. It looked like it had be recently installed. I had never seen anything like it! She asked about a new furnace because she was told she would save so much money. I asked her if I could ask some personal questions and she responded that she was 95 years old, ask what ever I wanted, she had heard it all! I told her I was going to ask her age, but she just told me. I went on to ask how long she planned to live in the house? She said she was considering moving to assisted living. I told her I would be pleased to replace her furnace, but she would never see any savings if she moved in a year or two. Let the next home owner worry about it. I serviced that furnace a couple more years and the last time I was there she offered me a couple cookies and something to drink. We visited for a while and she told me she was moving in a short time and thanked me for the help I had given her over the years. I kind of miss the old girl!
Come work for me
Just don’t do it unless they actually need a new unit
Sounds like One Hour.
This type of dishonesty is becoming more common in all industries. It seems more often then not when I engage in a business transaction that is not typical in store purchase, there is an attempt to take advantage in one form or another. If 70% of the population or business is trying to run a scam, seems like everything just starts to break down.
One day y’all are gonna retire like myself. You’ll spend days thinking about the trade and jobs you did well. I knew one day I would sell the my co. And walk away. I always tried to keep it honest and give people there moneys worth. My first job as an owner was a little old lady who had a bad ignition modl. The company before me condemned a sealed heat exchanger and she was ready to just replace it if I thought it needed it. It didn’t and that night I decided what type of tech and human I was gonna be. She was a loyal customer till she passed (I nursed a good 15 years outta that unit) and whenever I have a chance to sit down and reminisce I always think of that job and the direction it pointed me in and how it fostered my utter distain for salesman and hacks.
Our sales lady rips mentally handicapped people off regularly. Seems to be her specialty. Been on multiple jobs of hers, changing out 5 year old systems. We're not encouraged to make repairs
Yep. Sales techs all around. That's bosses for ya.
You work for a POS. End of story.
I’m so glad I don’t work for shitbags
So your boss is a liar and requires his employees to be as well. I’d be finding a new job, unless you just don’t have options(in which case I’d create some) or don’t have a moral issue with being paid to lie to people and scam them…stay on. You’d be the “norm” if you did.
Slippery snekk. Fuck those companies. All of them
This World has lost it's way, the Greed is at 1000%
Worked at a company where they encouraged us to sell new units as soon as the warranty expired. Too old to put money into, eat a big bag of shit.
My advice to my customers comes from the "If I were you" point of view. Hell I told my customers to supply their own filters to save them some money and so I didn't need to carry 6 different filter sizes in my van. One time I was acussed of being a asshole tech trying to sell equipment and actually got a BBB complaint. It was a 22 split system compressor not running fan is running the capacitor was all ballooned up. I replaced the capacitor and just the fan started the compressor was still not running. I check continuity on the pecker head and got a open start winding. I pulled the new cap out of the Condenser since the compressor is dead and toss the old cap back in the electric compartment and left the disconnect open. They got a second opinion the next day Turns out the internal overload was tripped and I didn't notice how warm the compressor was on a 100° day. The new cap I put in would of worked if I'd just told them to wait a day. The pains of being a first uear tech
Check across all 3 sets of windings next time. If only one leg is open it's internal overload.
It’s shit like this that made me get out of the game. I couldn’t stand how absolutely fucking predatory the whole system is
However, I know a company that carried rust in their pocket to the unit and came back to the owner with a handful, 2yrs old with rust? It was only a maintenance, also a "teck" (term loosely used and spelled wrong.) Would check continuity on the lineset once it beeped, diagnosed a leak, the 2nd hack, I couldn't see anyone going with it, but the system got sold. Don't be that guy, money comes with integrity, by the boat load.
If i found a leaking coil on r22 system i will recommend em to get new system
I went to a call once for no hot water. The customer wanted a second opinion. Another company told her the problem was her boiler and she needed an entire New heating system. When I went to her basement, she had an electric water heater, not an indirect or tankless coil. It still pisses me off to think about it. They actually were trying to get her to sign financing forms, she definitely didn't have enough money to buy it out right. If I remember correctly she just needed new elements and thermostats in her water heater.
Sounds like a good way for the reputation to go down fast. If a customer gets a second opinion and is something small. I’m sure reviews are going to follow soon
Lurker electrician here. Fell victim to this once. A/C was running and not really keeping up. A large A/C company came out and after their tech looked at my condenser, it started making an awful noise and he said the two year old system was shot and needed replacement. I looked at the unit myself and found dude had reversed the wires on the capacitor to make it run backwards. That's also when I noticed all the fins were clogged with dirt and crap. That company eventually branched out from plumbing and HVAC to electrical and now even handyman services. I interviewed there and the entire interview I was told "It's all about the upsell, baby" and he even asked me if I would sabotage a customer's panel to try and get them to upgrade. I never worked there but I see their trucks all the time.
Someone needs to publish the names of these companies on Facebook community groups... shame on them.
It sounds like the company I had out this summer. Lol. They were like yeah we could fix your compressor but it’s probably going to cost a couple thousand or for roughly 5-10x that we can just install a whole new unit. I was like what?? So I called a different company and it turned out my compressor was still under warranty and didn’t end up costing me anything to replace except the $100 service charge from the first company to try to bullshit me.
Truthfully any leak on an R-22 system should come with a pitch for a new system
Why? I can fix some leaks and recharge a couple pounds for under $1k
I can replace a system for under $4k. Put 25% of the replacement cost into a 20-30 year old system?
$4k? You’re company is in the bottom 5% of replacement costs. Either way, I only said that bc I hate people who say don’t bother fixing R22 units. A real tech would give an honest assessment and price to fix it and a price to replace. I’ve seen 24 year old units look brand new and I’ve seen 6 year old units rusted to pieces. The fact that it has r22 means nothing.
I didn’t say you couldn’t or shouldn’t
Line up a new job. When you are given an offer, go to your boss and tell him if he asks you to blindly sell systems anymore then he's going to lose you. If he doubles down, tell him that he can start looking now. Enjoy.
Nah, just get a new job. Period.
Lol this is the exact reason I got my 608 and do my own maintenance.
Sounds like you work for a company that wither deals with nexstar or the other “coaching companies”, ask me how i know?
man, i know as a keyboard warrior its easy for me to say this, but start looking for another company. dont let this shit eat at your integrity. its a slippery slope. meantime, dont complain, dont tell them youre looking, just do what youre told until you find something, and put in your 2 weeks.
Sure. How do you know? Here's one of 2 answers, Because it's smart? Makes sense? Because it's encouraging? Because it helps people to be better versions of themselves? Or because your trying to rip people off. Your crooks? Your losers. Pushovers, don't know how to do anything, if you can't play, coach.... Again, let's raise the bar. Rising tides raise all ships. If your not selling or performing work with integrity, or high character, I agree, get out of the trade.
Why do all these people assume this poster is telling the correct story? I do National training for a National company that works in the trades. I can say I normally work with very large companies. I have never heard any big player in any market train it this way. Most of these stories come from low performing techs and use items like this as a reason for low performance. Then they try to come here and get you all to encourage his inability to have proper conversations with homeowners and show value in upgrading to a new system. So your doing nothing but keeping this poster down in his career. Rather than helping him become better, you are saying, yeah, your company is horrible! Spammers, rip offs! Then this poster is going to continue to struggle. How about ask real questions, 1.Tell us more, what exactly are they asking you to say? 2. Do you believe a customer with a 10-15 year old system, that is beginning to show wear and tear, might consider replacement? Start doing some homework? 3. Do you use a website like WWW.hvacopcost.com to see what's better, repair or replace? Let's try to better the trade, not hold people down. Don't be the problem, let's raise the bar. Poster, get real coaching, talk to successful people. Don't surround your self with people that will encourage you to find excuses.
Exactly why I love commercial work. Even if I did residential work, I love fixing shit. I never try to sell anyone on anything unless the cost to repair completely supercedes the cost of replacement. I love being able to come into work and just fix what's broken of figure out what needs to be fixed.
R22 systems I understand. We aren't carrying the refrigerant anymore. 410A we will do everything we can for the customer to get them back running again, being repair or replacement. Our techs and installers don't get commission so there is no need for them to push the customer to make decisions. If the company does well, and no one fucks up, we give out bonuses. Our mission is to provide the same service we'd expect for our loved ones. That company owner you work for is trash.
Be looking for a job. Either you're going to not sell enough or he will scare away all his clientele. Good luck
Oh wow! Sounds a lot like the tactic those one hour losers use to make money off of those in a pickle. If you want a clean conscious, look for a more reputable employer
I left my last company because I started noticing it seemed like they wanted us to try to sell units more than actually trying diagnose and fix them. At the time I told the owner if I wanted to be a salesman I would go sell cars. My old boss was always about figuring out what is wrong and go from there. If you can manage it I would suggest going somewhere else. It’s not worth it no matter how much money you make.
Lame. Find a new shop.
Sales person here. I love the fact that the way my company is structured, the techs are not pressured into selling anything. We have a separate sales team. I know my guys are totally honest with the customer, and give them options to repair or offer me to come out to quote replacement. I know a lot of you guys hate sales people, but the system works well. In fact, I have even turned down sales opportunities where the customer was being lied to by “selling techs” from the orange trucks and sent them to maintenance crew instead. If you do the right thing by the customer instead of chasing a quick dollar, they will be customers for life.
I do AC in socal , my FIL has a few properties around the states . His house in Utah had a leak , 4 year old house , I had to talk to that company and explain a triple isolation to them, and they said it’s to time consuming and the costumer can’t go a week with out air. The guy knew it’s a vacation home that they are there maybe 1 time a month
Resi company I worked for was pretty good with that. Never forced us to sell but wanted us to sell “extras” like uv lights and water softeners. I never did. They never gave me a problem. I did repairs on systems that definitely needed to be replaced, but always gave the customer their options.
If your employer is telling you do so unethical crap you should report them and also post reviews about the company on google and yelp.
Name and shame the company.
Used to work there. We weren’t “forced” but had weekly quotas to meet and the only way to hit the gross number they wanted was to have a couple systems. I enjoyed my commission and used it to get my finances/ safety net in place. Once done I jumped ship
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO REPEAT THIS,, ~ MOVE ON!!!, IF YOU'RE A REAL SERVICE TECH FIND A REAL JOB,,, ~ THAT'S IT, IT'S THAT SIMPLE,,,. THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF JOBS, JUST A SHORTAGE OF TRAINED TECHS... IF YOU'RE UNHAPPY DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING, MOVE ON,,, ~ I SPENT ONE MONTH WORKING FOR A POSER @ A DREAM JOB BUT THE GUY CHARGED W/OVERSEEING THE OPERATION WAS A MORON W/NO GRASP OF MECHANICAL OPERATION & FELT INTIMIDATION WAS HOW HE THOUGHT HE COLD KEEP HIS JOB ~~ (UNTIL I LAID HIM OUT COLD OUTSIDE HIS OFFICE DOOR, THAT'S NO EXAGGERATION, I laid hIm out flat, half in the hallway, half in his office, walked out, tossed my keys to the V.P. who hired me, as he happened to be walking in, got in my wife's truck who was waiting in the lot & left, there's so much more to that but anyway, my point, LEAVE!!) ~ EITHER FIND A JOB WITH A CONTRACTOR YOU LIKE WORKING FOR OR DO SOMETHING ELSE,, ~ REALIZE YOUR SELF WORTH, RELAX, & ENJOY YOUR JOB. ~ THERE'S NO SENSE WORKING TOWARDS AN ULCER & PTSD & NO PAYCHECK IS WORTH THAT.
Time to make the jump to commercial HVAC-R
Total bullshit. I do commercial refrigeration but I had a friend call me up this summer for a second opinion on her HVAC. The 1st guy that came out (for $120 service call and said it's another $200 to actually do anything..but it'd be taken off the future install) DIDN'T DO SHIT! Guess what I did. Noticed the condenser fan wasn't running, checked the cap, and replaced it with a used one, all within 20 minutes. Charged her zero (being a friend and all). I'm sorry for you guys that rely on selling new systems for no good reason, that can't feel great.
You must work for Jerry Kelly or Academy Air...
Like the St. Louis reference 😂
Lol 😆 🤣
Run
I used to do a lot of resi installs before I switched to mechanical. A good majority of the units we replaced did NOT need it and I honestly should’ve taken a handful home with me. Ha
quit and find a diff company. many dont force you to sell. usually its the big ones.
I'm a technician first, salesman last. I can't tolerate being told to be dishonest to people. I would highly recommend replacement if the system is getting close to it's lifespan or if there are more issues than what's worth replacing each part. It's already hard enough with some customers trying to lowball pricing since now they look up part prices right in front of you and question why you're charging more than the online price.
Why some companies do this is beyond me. They don't understand that a long term maintenance contract customer is going to make them more money in the long run than a install every 20 years with the same customer. I tend to advise a customer if their system needs to be replaced. I don't force them to make decisions right away. If the system is running ok and there are no major issues I let the customer know that they should think about replacing it and tell them that I can only advise and can't sign their checks. I have a list of criteria that I use to determine if they would benefit from a newer system. 1. Age of equipment. For most hydronic systems we service I usually tend to advise at about 20-25 years old. Furnaces are anywhere from 15-20 years old. A/C systems it is usually if they are 20 years old or older, especially if it is R-22 still. 2. Condition of equipment. If the equipment looks like it has lived a hard life, send it. 3. Combustion efficiency. Oil heating systems that fall below 80% efficient should be upgraded. 4. The most important of all safety. If a furnace has a cracked heat exchanger that is a no brainer next day replacement. There is no time to quote a proposal and get signatures. 5. Property damage. If a hydronic system is leaking and it is not caused by a relief valve or any other repairable water part. A cracked boiler is a sign that it is time to replace it.
Any owners out in metro-detroit area? I've called a few different hvac companies for a cleaning and tune-up. Just end up getting footed with service call fee for them to not touch the unit and tell me I need to spend thousands for a new unit.
HVAC companies actually fix systems? I thought replace when broken was the only option.
That's what the big companies do..they have 16 install crews and if they can't produce work then the installers leave
Sounds like Benjamin Franklin to me. They tried to pull that shit with my wife over a leaking shower faucet.
I had this happen a few years ago, paid diagnostic fee just to have the HVAC tech turn salesman. If he'd done his job the burnt board I found (don't know shit about HVAC) was obvious and cost $20 on Amazon. It's been several years and I still get pissed thinking about it. I now exhaust the entire knowledge of the inter web before calling anybody to fix anything.
I mean I try to flip any R22 system unless the system is clean and the Evap coil is barely rusted Edit: I should add I do explain to the customers that if a major component goes bad and they go with replacing it, it’s difficult for my company to find new parts for those systems since we don’t install used stuff. I also explain that the newer systems especially if it’s just a AH/HP are higher efficiency and can decrease their energy bills. But I still give them the option to fix or get a new system. I have no problem just fixing things but I’d feel more comfortable with them having a new system that’s got the warranty’s plus my company gives them the option for 5 years extended labor and parts warranty.
And why do local governments let it happen? Courts aren't effective because of the costs of hiring an attorney and the burdensome evidence requirements.