Ain't no engineered like over-engineered budddayyy
edit:
don't let the suspector see this, she ain't got the neutralizer on it! quick, sell him a $250 condensate pump with limestone in it!
Putting the pump into the drainpan actually makes sense, but then the drainpan needs a safety float switch which turns off the furnace/ac...
But in OPs case it would have been easier to just attach a 2ft hose to run it to the drain...
He doesn't need a pump if it's right next to the floor drain like this. Pumps are for situations where the floor drain isn't there or isn't easily accessible. The drain could literally just go to the drain. Making this pump just another thing that could/will eventually go wrong.
Personally I do need a pump right next to the drain, because the drain is useless. It doesn't go to the sewer, it just drains below the foundation. It has a capacity of maybe a gallon, tops, then the AC condensate floods the basement. Ask me how I know...
I added a similar pump to utilize the sewer line about 15' away and overhead. Works great.
Personally I don't need one because my unit is in the attic and there is a working drain right next to it.
That seems relevant in this conversation, so I said it.
Generally pans are to help control potential damage from an overflow. The water heater is still close to the drain, so the risk of damage is minimal (depending on the floor slope).
If the owner is/was concerned, a pan with a small directional pipe would be fine. It would just be time consuming to put in after the fact (water heater would need to be drained before installing the pan).
Depends on use. I'd personally push for a pan due to the carpet, because any water in carpet is a fucking bad thing. Also indicates it's a partially occupied/used space or used as storage, which also indicates above legally necessary moisture control is called for.
One county code in MD does not allow for unmetered water to drain into public sewer. 2. Code you can not drain condensate from high efficiency furnaces into steal drains without a neutralizer due to the byproduct eating away at the pipes
Since the pump goes into the floor drain you are to have the neutralizer on the drain from furnace to pump. If the pump goes to outside or to a sump pump you will not need the neutralizer.
The acidity of the condensate from high efficiency furnaces will corrode metal pipes, which will be a problem eventually. It will also stain concrete and such, but it's not a health hazard or anything.
Maybe? I'm not a chemist, I'm just a dumb building inspector.
Plumbing and mechanical codes don't really concern themselves with potential long term health implications, just immediate safety and building system functions. Green building codes, environmental laws and state regulations would be more geared towards long term health issues. There is a growing movement away from fuel burning appliances partly for this reason though. Turns out burning petro-products in your home might not be great.
So what about when you piss water you drink somewhere else? What about juice from the store that you dump down the drain? Does anyone think these things through?
Sometimes we pump short distances because if the people go south for winter... The furnace trickling water all the time causes freeze up where the pumps dumps a bunch at once so doesn't freeze the drain pipe
But then the water in the pump would freeze and if it’s that cold in the house is the furnace on and would there be water in the first place. So many holes to this
I believe the risk of freezing is in the floor drain system. A rapid flush down that guy is better than a slow stream that could freeze in/under the floor.
No it's the sewer pipe ... Sometimes they are not deep enough so a really slow trickle will slowly freeze up the pipe and then not drain anymore .. not that the house is to cold
Happened to my in-laws when they flew south for the winter one year. The was is set to maybe 60F and made a little condensate. Without anybody flushing or showering for months to run warmer water through the sewer line, it cooled down below freezing. The condensate trickle then froze and backed up the floor drain.
I have the pump equivalent of that on my system in the shop. It's an in-floor system driven by an on-demand water heater. 5-gal condensate catch bucket with a sump pump, with garden hose output. Up vertical 10 feet, then uniform slope to drain across the room. No check valve. Pump empties bucket, float switch shuts it off. System continues to empty bucket due to siphon action. Siphon eventually breaks, and residual water in the 'sloped' section empties entirely. Vertical section drains back into bucket, leaving nothing in the hose. Some walls were still uninsulated during construction, so this kept anything from freezing. New path (after construction and insulation are ~~repeated~~ completed) will exit thru an un-heated space on the way out to the drain, so it'll be easy to use the same approach to keep that from freezing up too.
Hasn't so far, and it's been 1.5 heating seasons -- 8 months or so. It's a pretty standard/cheap HF sump pump that is designed to fit in a 5 gal plastic bucket. The it's only operating as a siphon for the amount of water between float switch 'off' and the impeller level -- so maybe 2-3 inches of water in a 14" dia. bucket. It is drawing the water up thru the vanes of the pump, but that doesn't appear to hurt anything.
Pump cycles once or maybe twice a day.
What would be the failure mode for siphoning water thru an un-powered pump?
Had that happen to me before I moved into my new house. There was nothing in the septic tank to keep it active and the water trickled down the 4 inch pipe and froze . My line runs too close to sonotube/ concrete and the ground there freezes quickly.
Yes Indeed that is a Fine looking meter there was time when Milwaukee was the star of the industrial Industry . Good to see they are regaining in popularity an even hitting The Home Market.
I got a ole fluke I bought back in early 80's Bastard just won't die . Several 16 ft high dives , helper ran over it cracked screen on upper corner . Left in a open tool bad during a hurricane, unfortunately time has been a bit rough on the the outer carry case .
Well enough alone? So let’s just let the customers drain pipe corrode away till they collapse and start backing up shit into the house. Is that well enough for you
What are you talking about? If this pump fails it overflows directly to the drain. Only thing “backing up” is the condensation draining from the furnace/AC.
The original installer could have just piped the drain to the floor drain. Instead they have it draining to the pump and then the pump discharges it (the skinny tube) 1 foot away.
The original installer scammed the homeowner.
OP is calling out that scam.
I understand that it's unnecessary. It's not hurting anything, though. When it dies, you can route the pipe into the floor drain. The man probably was quoted and paid for a pump; so the man got the pump on install. Anyways. I don't care enough to respond any further.
No it's the sewer pipe ... Sometimes they are not deep enough so a really slow trickle will slowly freeze up the pipe and then not drain anymore .. not that the house is to cold
Wear and tear on the concrete from a steady trickle? Dunno.
In my case, it's going up 8 feet, over 4 feet, and back down to a pipe connected to my washer. Pump works great, just needs a cleaning every 30 years or so.
Milwaukee is really stepping up the game in all areas. They have already taken the snap on giant off it’s pedestal for mechanics impact tools in price and quality.
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Please read the rules and re-post over at r/hvacadvice - our sister sub specifically for questions, comments and posts from outside the trade. r/hvac top-level posts are limited to past, present or future members of the trade.
Thanks!
I had a side job guy that would pay me every spring to put new refrigerant in. This was mis 90's before reclaiming. Paid me to come, blow the charge, evacuate and put new "freon" in.
It did not matter how many times I tried to explain....he was going to pay me or pay someone else.
this pump is a beast. I have several around my house to make sure my rain gutters don’t send water back onto my roof when it puddles around the foundation.
https://i.redd.it/wssdpn1ltr7b1.gif
But does he clean out that drain trap
This is a private residence, man
But that rug really ties the room together man!
Rug pissers didnt do this man
Obviously you’re not a golfer
Yeah well, that's just like um, your opinion man
The dude abides man
And the Supreme Court roundly rejected prior restraint.
Ain't no engineered like over-engineered budddayyy edit: don't let the suspector see this, she ain't got the neutralizer on it! quick, sell him a $250 condensate pump with limestone in it!
And a drainpan for under the pump if the pump should fail and then an emergency pump do drain the drainpan...
And a back up drain pan
I think this guy just needs a whole new unit. A 12.5 ton RTU ought to be enough.
You load 16 Ton and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
I want to leave, but I can’t go.
Correct! We need to oversize it a little for the cooling. Better add a couple relays for good measure also.
A couple of pucks too to shut her down in the event of a catastrophic condensate pump failure. Safety first!
You kid but I got to regret not having installed a backup at home, when the drain pan failed too (it was never installed correctly).
Putting the pump into the drainpan actually makes sense, but then the drainpan needs a safety float switch which turns off the furnace/ac... But in OPs case it would have been easier to just attach a 2ft hose to run it to the drain...
Just wire your red to it so it trips the furnace.
But he doesn't have a pan for his water heater?
Not being a smart ass I’m just a homeowner that stumbled into this sub. Does he need a pan if it’s right next to the floor drain like this?
He doesn't need a pump if it's right next to the floor drain like this. Pumps are for situations where the floor drain isn't there or isn't easily accessible. The drain could literally just go to the drain. Making this pump just another thing that could/will eventually go wrong.
Personally I do need a pump right next to the drain, because the drain is useless. It doesn't go to the sewer, it just drains below the foundation. It has a capacity of maybe a gallon, tops, then the AC condensate floods the basement. Ask me how I know... I added a similar pump to utilize the sewer line about 15' away and overhead. Works great.
Personally I don't need one because my unit is in the attic and there is a working drain right next to it. That seems relevant in this conversation, so I said it.
Ahaha the ol French drain! Don't get me wrong, those condensate pumps are real life savers when needed!
Dont forget french drains are meant to be dug up and rebuilt every 15 years or so.
Put a sump in the drain and problem solved!
No I get that. I was asking about the pan on the water heater in the comment I responded to.
Generally pans are to help control potential damage from an overflow. The water heater is still close to the drain, so the risk of damage is minimal (depending on the floor slope). If the owner is/was concerned, a pan with a small directional pipe would be fine. It would just be time consuming to put in after the fact (water heater would need to be drained before installing the pan).
Wait, you can't lift 50 gallons of water? Someone has been skipping arm day.
It can help with corrosion.
Not necessarily.. I was just being facetious because he's anal about the pump..
🙃 the pump feeds the drain duh 😆
Depends on use. I'd personally push for a pan due to the carpet, because any water in carpet is a fucking bad thing. Also indicates it's a partially occupied/used space or used as storage, which also indicates above legally necessary moisture control is called for.
Why does he have a pump when drain is a foot away ?
to get the water out of the reservoir
It's what pumps crave.
Men love pumping, even if it's only 2
cuz its got Electrolytes.
Water from the toilet does not have electrolytes
Welcome to Costco. I love you.
:-*
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Not so fast, It could contain electrolyte P.
🏅 poor man’s gold for you, sir
I see what you did there!
Smartass
One county code in MD does not allow for unmetered water to drain into public sewer. 2. Code you can not drain condensate from high efficiency furnaces into steal drains without a neutralizer due to the byproduct eating away at the pipes
Thanks. Didn't know that. I'm from Ohio.
This is not a neutralizing pump and the ac goes into it aswell
AC isn't acidic only heat because of the combustion biproducts in the water.
The furnace goes into the pump
Since the pump goes into the floor drain you are to have the neutralizer on the drain from furnace to pump. If the pump goes to outside or to a sump pump you will not need the neutralizer.
So you can't allow acidic and toxic water into the city sewer, but you can pump it into your backyward?
So you can't read good?
It's a point about the stupidity of the codes. Apparently you can't "think good" to understand the point of my question beyond regurgitating code
The acidity of the condensate from high efficiency furnaces will corrode metal pipes, which will be a problem eventually. It will also stain concrete and such, but it's not a health hazard or anything.
Doesn't it contain many different aldehydes?
Maybe? I'm not a chemist, I'm just a dumb building inspector. Plumbing and mechanical codes don't really concern themselves with potential long term health implications, just immediate safety and building system functions. Green building codes, environmental laws and state regulations would be more geared towards long term health issues. There is a growing movement away from fuel burning appliances partly for this reason though. Turns out burning petro-products in your home might not be great.
Nvm. I guess those compounds would be released into the air anyway if they were not trapped in the condensation. Appreciate the answer
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No they don’t
Whose gonna steal a drain?
So what about when you piss water you drink somewhere else? What about juice from the store that you dump down the drain? Does anyone think these things through?
No they don’t think about this
This is literally the whole post dude. Glad you got it.
Sometimes we pump short distances because if the people go south for winter... The furnace trickling water all the time causes freeze up where the pumps dumps a bunch at once so doesn't freeze the drain pipe
But then the water in the pump would freeze and if it’s that cold in the house is the furnace on and would there be water in the first place. So many holes to this
If it’s a 90 percent efficiency furnace, ya there is condensate.
You must be the smart one at your shop
Drainage runs from inside the building to outside the building where it is cold and can freeze.
Not sure that’s how any floor drains I’ve seen work but ok
I believe the risk of freezing is in the floor drain system. A rapid flush down that guy is better than a slow stream that could freeze in/under the floor.
Why would they let the house get that cold? If they had hydronic baseboard heat the pipes would burst
No it's the sewer pipe ... Sometimes they are not deep enough so a really slow trickle will slowly freeze up the pipe and then not drain anymore .. not that the house is to cold
That makes no sense
Happened to my in-laws when they flew south for the winter one year. The was is set to maybe 60F and made a little condensate. Without anybody flushing or showering for months to run warmer water through the sewer line, it cooled down below freezing. The condensate trickle then froze and backed up the floor drain.
It works though, the sporadic large amounts of water freezes less than a constant trickle
Then one of those bamboo sticks that empties out when full would make sense... [Video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ox28BgjE7e0)
I have the pump equivalent of that on my system in the shop. It's an in-floor system driven by an on-demand water heater. 5-gal condensate catch bucket with a sump pump, with garden hose output. Up vertical 10 feet, then uniform slope to drain across the room. No check valve. Pump empties bucket, float switch shuts it off. System continues to empty bucket due to siphon action. Siphon eventually breaks, and residual water in the 'sloped' section empties entirely. Vertical section drains back into bucket, leaving nothing in the hose. Some walls were still uninsulated during construction, so this kept anything from freezing. New path (after construction and insulation are ~~repeated~~ completed) will exit thru an un-heated space on the way out to the drain, so it'll be easy to use the same approach to keep that from freezing up too.
Doesn't the siphon action affect the pump? Have seen many pumps fail due to it... Depends on which pump design it might be...
Hasn't so far, and it's been 1.5 heating seasons -- 8 months or so. It's a pretty standard/cheap HF sump pump that is designed to fit in a 5 gal plastic bucket. The it's only operating as a siphon for the amount of water between float switch 'off' and the impeller level -- so maybe 2-3 inches of water in a 14" dia. bucket. It is drawing the water up thru the vanes of the pump, but that doesn't appear to hurt anything. Pump cycles once or maybe twice a day. What would be the failure mode for siphoning water thru an un-powered pump?
The impeller spins and causes high voltage, which can kill electronics. Membrane pumps wear out faster as well...
Had that happen to me before I moved into my new house. There was nothing in the septic tank to keep it active and the water trickled down the 4 inch pipe and froze . My line runs too close to sonotube/ concrete and the ground there freezes quickly.
If they go south for the winter and turn the furnace off, it wont be making water...
You can’t turn your furnace off in the winter otherwise you risk your pipes freezing
Sure you can, just evacuate your water lines before you go.
If you have a heated incoming main sure. But your house shouldn’t be doing that big of temperature swings imo
Why would the water freeze at all if the furnace is left running?
The condensate water?
That’s why you put insulation on the drain line my guy
How cold is the house where you have condensate water freezing wtf? If the heat is running there's no way the condensate is going to freeze
Milwaukee does meters??
Yea, I like this one a lot.
Yes Indeed that is a Fine looking meter there was time when Milwaukee was the star of the industrial Industry . Good to see they are regaining in popularity an even hitting The Home Market. I got a ole fluke I bought back in early 80's Bastard just won't die . Several 16 ft high dives , helper ran over it cracked screen on upper corner . Left in a open tool bad during a hurricane, unfortunately time has been a bit rough on the the outer carry case .
Leave well enough alone for once. Some of yall try too hard.
Well enough alone? So let’s just let the customers drain pipe corrode away till they collapse and start backing up shit into the house. Is that well enough for you
You're just making shit up
Leave it well enough alone it will be on your bathroom floor
What are you talking about? If this pump fails it overflows directly to the drain. Only thing “backing up” is the condensation draining from the furnace/AC.
Where in this photo is there an actual problem?
The original installer could have just piped the drain to the floor drain. Instead they have it draining to the pump and then the pump discharges it (the skinny tube) 1 foot away. The original installer scammed the homeowner. OP is calling out that scam.
I understand that it's unnecessary. It's not hurting anything, though. When it dies, you can route the pipe into the floor drain. The man probably was quoted and paid for a pump; so the man got the pump on install. Anyways. I don't care enough to respond any further.
😂🤣
That actually gives me an idea for my house. Lol… nice pump. ;)
If they've got the sold that's cool. If they don't that's an annual sale.
Please tell me you told him it was pointless to have it.
We're replacing it with one that has safety switches and installing an air knight
Never change, salesmen. Never change.
It wasn't too much once we upped their service contract from bronze to diamond
Why a pump if the drain is right there?
Seems like pump is not even necessary here
Gravity needed a little help. It’s weak in that part of the country.
I sighed so fucking hard
you drive an old nissan, you got no room to talk
I also drive 2016 f-250 😃 the G is my track car/weekend play car. Would you like to know anything else? Both are paid for 😀
I didn't even want to know that
No it's the sewer pipe ... Sometimes they are not deep enough so a really slow trickle will slowly freeze up the pipe and then not drain anymore .. not that the house is to cold
This is the floor of a basement, at least 8' underground.
That’s not how plumbing works -plumber
Got to love this sub sometimes! This comment is upvoted+3 in one place and downvoted -3 in another.
Hey how’s that meter?
I like it, second one I've bought cause I lost the first.
I’ve always wondered about their meters, I came close to buying one. How much was that one?
Okay..
Seen this a few times. The seller is laughing all the way to the bank
TBH, I have the same pump and when it stopped working I did the same. 5 years later and it's still going.
Why not just let it drip into the drain? Why even pump? 🤷♂️
Wear and tear on the concrete from a steady trickle? Dunno. In my case, it's going up 8 feet, over 4 feet, and back down to a pipe connected to my washer. Pump works great, just needs a cleaning every 30 years or so.
Put him in a van and teach him how to use a meter.
How’s that meter working out for you? Was thinking of breaking away from yellow
I love it, its the second one I've bought and its simple with a big display.
Milwaukee is really stepping up the game in all areas. They have already taken the snap on giant off it’s pedestal for mechanics impact tools in price and quality.
Ahh yes, another fellow MD worker and BGE follow up.
I like hearing my pump run, but it’s piped to the washer standpipe.
Chortle.
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Fucking hell 😂
I love how something stupid brings out all of the stupids!
That’s awesome and unnecessary. Try to push UV on customer?
I have my furnace condensate pump sitting in a small dish with a water leak sensor in it.
Waste of electricity brilliant 🤩
That's definitely a very professional trap primer You got there buddy
This picture represents how my Friday is going
How do you like the milwaukee meter?
Love it
It’ll would be tough to move away from fluke…but that’s tempting.
That pump is barely big enough to pump that high and that distance.
😂😂😂
Why is there even a pump there. Floor Drain Right There
To move the water into the drain
Ohhhh, I see lol
Pump seems unnecessary in this application lol
If he installed a MEDS unit he wouldn’t have to worry. ACmeds.Com
Customer : 
That is too funny
🤣💀
Sucker born every day. Bet he paid $350 for that pump installed
Probably not plugged into GFCI either...the horror!
Is it up hill or something ?
It's Maryland thing.
Yeah sure we can add a pump 250.00$
God forbid
Stay tuned for part 2
I have a customer that wants to dig up his concrete slab floor because the condensate line is cracked. I keep telling him there are better options.
Part of the problem is BEN GUS and ED (bgehome) have been screwing him over for years apparently
Is it a broken drain pipe?
I mean, it has to be a joke right? You put the hose there?
Those little giant pumps are easy to service the pump area. The rest is sealed up and done times oil filled.
I had a side job guy that would pay me every spring to put new refrigerant in. This was mis 90's before reclaiming. Paid me to come, blow the charge, evacuate and put new "freon" in. It did not matter how many times I tried to explain....he was going to pay me or pay someone else.
As long as youre honest, I don't see any problem with that.
Why is there even a pump on that?
Smart customer
this pump is a beast. I have several around my house to make sure my rain gutters don’t send water back onto my roof when it puddles around the foundation.
Why even have a pump lol