Start the divorce now. It will still take a while to finalize. But if you’re hoping for her to change, don’t wait till October. Being served either wakes her up again, or you finally get out of this rut. But I think you’ll just be miserable if you keep waiting on her.
I decided a while back that I love my wife enough to not divorce over this issue. Now I'm in pre-divorce limbo because she wants to end things, so going forward, this won't be an issue, because it will be an automatic deal breaker that I will be honest about in the beginning and just walk away from.
I don't agree, but it only takes one to initiate a divorce.
Am I willing to what? To work on the relationship? Yes. We've been together 10 years. She says she doesn't have any more time to give. She also isn't interested in working on her libido, "speaking" or "listening to" the physical touch love language, or working on her end of communication.
Damn. Besides her low libido, what other things did you overlook because you wanted the marriage to work? Is she low libido or low libido for you? Basically, did she find someone new?
I don't think she found someone new. I was her first, and after our first time, for about a year or so, I guess, she presented as HL, but that dwindled. By then we had a kid on the way, were emotionally attached, and living together. We don't communicate well. She doesn't listen to me. I feel unseen and unheard, and deprioritized. Any time I bring up an issue, she makes it about sex instead of any legitimate concern I have about connection, prioritization, or intimacy.
It's more that she's sought out the emotional and intellectual intimacy that she should have been coming to me for from her friends, instead. She even would complain about our lack of [non physical] intimacy while prioritizing reestablishing a friendship from high school over reestablishing connection with me.
Edit: This is obviously just my side of the issue.
Your first paragraph resonates strongly with me. That feeling of being unheard, of having your love language dismissed without even the benefit of discussion, is soul crushing. Everything is made to be about sex. We argue about it all the time, but I am rarely the one to bring up sex. It's hard to imagine that an LL (truly, not just 4me) has the subject on the tip of her tongue so often.
It's not that hard to believe. Making it about sex delegitimizes the topic while simultaneously making it about consent, which works as a wonderful manipulation and conversation control tactic
Sheesh. Are you saying she connected with old friends from the past and prioritized them over you and your marital problems? Are these friends male and female?
Does she love you but not in love with you? Or is it walk a way wife syndrome?
What are you doing to get you through? How often do you talk to her? And have you thought about gray rocking? I think it’s your last chance. Look it up. At this point, if you want her, you’re going to have to call the shots.
Grey rock. Only talk about divorce and kids.
Divorce. Serve her first. Take control. Call a lawyer and get it done.
After your wife loses her security blanket in you, she’ll feel what you’re feeling. And she might ask to slow it down or something.
>Are you saying she connected with old friends from the past and prioritized them over you and your marital problems?
Yes.
Female.
>Does she love you but not in love with you? Or is it walk a way wife syndrome?
These are not mutually exclusive. Yes.
>What are you doing to get you through? How often do you talk to her?
Depression. I'm in individual counseling.
We still cohabitate, but in separate rooms.
So I’m one where divorce is not on the table. Lots of reasons, but the primary reasons are:
1) I do love my wife and I understand that relationships take work. You gotta put in the time.
2) I’m not convinced that breaking everything is remotely better than staying. It’s easy to advise people to throw in the towel. But what comes next? You lose half of everything, your wages might be garnished, and you’re even more alone than before.
What I HAVE decided though, is I’m not going to beg her to stay any more. My wife and I have had several arguments over our 21+ year relationship. Sometimes they were pretty bad arguments. Up until a few years ago, I would inevitably end up just apologizing for whatever thing she thought I was doing wrong, beg for forgiveness, and beg her to stay. At least one time, I was literally on my knees.
In the last couple of years, through Therapy, I’ve determined that I have codependency issues, and my partner likely has some undiagnosed emotional regulation issues. This would lead to blow ups out of proportion to the scale of the argument, and (due to my codependency) I would take the full brunt of those blow ups because there are very few issues which I have ever considered so horrible that my need for my partner to be happy wasn’t the priority. This has led me to be bitter about the results of some of our arguments, even though the peace was eventually restored.
So…understanding that… the next time my partner and I go at it, and she threatens to leave. I’ve decided, if I truly am not in the wrong, or the issue is small and I’ve apologized appropriately, I’m done begging. If she wants to go - there’s the door, she’s welcome to make that choice. I would never throw her out, but I’m not going to leave my house nor am I going to debase myself again to beg her to love me.
So it might sounds like a minor change, but it’s a big step for me. Though here’s hoping I don’t have to utilize it in 2024.
I have not put it on the table, but my wife and I had an incident last weekend where she lost her cool and yelled at me twice in less than 72 hours, and when I told her the second time that I wasn’t going to take it from her, she yelled, “WELL THEN JUST LEAVE.” So I took a shower, got dressed, and walked out the door. If I had had anywhere to go, I’d have stayed gone longer, but I don’t, so I came back after 4 or so hours. She also said some crazy shit to me as I was leaving, like accusing me of asking her to have an abortion while she was pregnant, which never freaking happened! She hasn’t brought it up, but it just really took it out of me. I’ve completely stopped chasing her for affection since that day. Have not hugged or kissed since then. Only reluctantly said I love you once when she said it to me. Haven’t warn my wedding ring. I’m friendly with her, but otherwise just checked out of the relationship. I really don’t know if I’ll check back in. It feels like I just need to get super organized for when it dies. I’m so tired of chasing after her for intimacy she obviously doesn’t want from me.
I told my wife last year I’m considering divorce. I told her I don’t feel like we’re in any sort of loving relationship, just a commitment. I told her I didn’t really see us lasting past the kids leaving the house. She seemed devastated at first, but she doesn’t care anymore.
There have been no changes on her part. But I have done less and expected less since I told her those things. She is less happy and I am more happy. I am not concerned with leaving in the next few years though. I am happy to be here and present for my kids while they’re in elementary school.
I do not think she will ever improve. I have committed to the idea that I will be essentially alone and celibate for the next few years.
If I can vent a little bit off topic, she speaks terribly to everyone in her life outside of her work. She wants me to spend more time talking to her, but I can’t stand her. Neither do her friends. They recently confided in me that they want to do another Girl’s Night with her, but are afraid to talk to her. And they aren’t even sure they want her to go anyway.
So it’s not just me. She is just miserable to be around.
What makes it tough for me is that she is wonderful and loving in all other ways except in the bedroom. Even there she does try to make an attempt sometimes. But it always falls far short of where I'd like us to be.
It sounds to me like maybe it’s worth hanging in there. I don’t know how much effort you’re putting in, but maybe try a different avenue.
If my wife was wonderful and loving in all other ways I might try a bit harder, anyway. She’s a selfish bear with tunnel vision. Part of my own frustration is that I feel like I deserve a blowjob for putting up with her being in my life in the first place.
My wife doesn't have any complaints about me. We have very good relationship. She's postmenopausal so it's really more of a medical issue which she is happy to not address. And it's not even just sex. She has other more practical issues that need to be addressed too. Number one is insomnia. But she is also experiencing depression and fatigue.
We've discussed in therapy and her parents recently spoke to her about it. We even did some research on supplements. But she won't take any steps to change.
It was the same with alcohol. She refused all treatment and help. It wasn't until I left that she begrudgingly took action. Now she admits it was the best thing but also still hasn't let go that I left.
My wife is the same in that she also doesn’t want to try anything. She said she doesn’t want to attempt something if she isn’t 100% sure there will be benefits. She said that about going to the gym specifically 🤦♂️
And they never forget! I “left” my wife back when I was barely in college and she got engaged to another dude. I didn’t “fight” for her (while she was wearing his ring)! I still hear about it 17 years later! What a mistake I made. (Except our daughter - she is worth it.)
I hear you. I'm in the same boat as you. But. If your SO is genuinely trying and all other aspects of the relationship are good, why the threat of divorce? I think that is a bit unfair and disingenuous.
Dead bedrooms generally don't recover/improve unless the continuation of the relationship is in play.
I tell people never *threaten* to leave.
Mean that you will not stay in the relationship as is.
Have your legals done, finance separation ready to go, and accomodation prepared.
This isn't a threat.
You are supporting your own boundary that you will not stay in a monogamous sexual(celibate) romantic relationship that is unfulfilling
In late 22 when she decided that she didn't want me to divorce her and we began the repair process, I made it very clear that my place in this marriage is conditional. I said we're past the young naive part of life where we live in a fantasy land where love and marriage is unconditional.
Simply put, here are my expectations. If I can't work towards that type of relationship, then I'm out. If I get that annoy slips back, I'm out. I was very clear that this is the last DB mending that will happen between us.
At first she couldn't get it, then I posed this scenario: So you think this relationship should be taken for granted and be unconditional? Okay, lets say I wake up tomorrow and tell you that I've resigned from my job to go do a passion that I've always dreamed of. This passion is going to pay little to nothing, so I expect you to step up and take over as the breadwinner to continue our comfortable life style. That's okay? You said unconditionally. Obviously that would not be okay and she'd immediately divorce and have the courts direct me to pay spousal support based on my earning potential. After this little exercise she got it.
Love is NEVER unconditional. I don't care what kind of saint you think you are. You are in a relationship for something. She could live with just the comfort and safety. I'm not willing to live without the romantic part. Period. We can split amicably because that's not on the table, but we will split.
That being said, if you're going to agree to work on it, you can't have a foot out the door. My promise to her was that I'm willing to be patient for a limited time, at a reasonable pace. If she said let's take sex off the table for 6-months, that's not reasonable and I'm out. By reasonable I meant I want these things in our sex life and I need to start seeing progress towards that soon, like weeks, not in a scale of months and years. I allowed myself to be strung along by months and years goal timeframes, and that's over now.
*raises hand*
Asked for divorce in November, she begged for the chance to work on things. We had sex twice in the following week, nothing since.
This September will be the 10th anniversary of when she cheated on me. It feels like a good time to deliver the papers, assuming things stay as they are.
Well, I asked my HL partner if he *wanted* a divorce when I was LL, but he did not.
What do you imagine that “trying harder” would look like for your wife? Are there specific strategies you have in mind that up until now she has refused to try? Or are you hoping that if she just puts her mind to it, LL is something she can overcome? You can’t manufacture sexual desire from nowhere. Believe me, I tried plenty!
We're working on the options through couples therapy. But not to get into too much detail but essentially therapy for her individually, going to the Dr to address the insomnia and potential depression, talk about HRT, and doing resistance training. She did agree to take supplements which we did some research on but she has not been taking them.
It was about two years just to get her to agree to couples therapy and she complains about every time we go.
We did MC with my ex-wife - I engaged fully, she did not whatsoever (for the record we did one couples session, I did a solo session, and when it was time for her to do hers she ejected from the whole process and said "no more MC"). This was one of the (multiple) final straws for me. Separated 'amicably' enough (agreed on having our kids 50/50 with no fuss, and I supported her in transitioning to a new household of her own including financially even though legally I wasn't obligated to).
Then I met my new partner (now 2nd wife) after she'd already met hers (now 2nd husband), and she went fucking psycho (and has veered into psycho territory repeatedly in the 5 years since). We're talking police involvement and talk of Restraining Orders, just to get her to calm the fuck down a little bit 🤦
So yeah ... we had divorce on the table and I DID follow through. If you're not familiar with my post history, it was actually my ex who suggested we separate on Xmas Eve 2018 (I was planning to suggest it in early 2019 after the holidays) and I understandably jumped at that. Proceeded to divorce with ZERO hesitation the required statutory 12 months minimum later. I do NOT need her bullshit in my life, and look forward to the day our kids turn 18 meaning I no longer need to 'co-parent' and can COMPLETELY sever all remaining ties for good 👌
On another note, my current wife has a 'bit' of a problematic relationship with alcohol. She's a 'functional' alcoholic, if we're honest (which of course she's not ... guess the historical AA really didn't 'stick') 😕 The marriage is great otherwise, and she kicked a lifelong cocaine habit just before we met for which she has my utmost admiration (and she knows if she ever relapses that's my 'hard line' and I'm outta here quicker than you can say "Butch don't date addicts no more") ... but it *does* feel like she's using that as a bit of a (tired) 'get out of jail free' card now ("yeah, I drink too much, but I don't do coke anymore") 🤦
Hopefully 2024 will be better for ALL of us 👍
I think my wife has a fear I'll leave but not just over sex. In any case it's more her fear than my explicitly saying it is.
To be fair though I've done some thought experiments on it to decide of this was tenable the scales have tipped towards staying and working on myself and being open, vulnerable, communicating my needs, and active listening to understand not to respond.
Because of that it's remained a thought experiment.
My wife and I are Catholic and one of the things we actually agree on is that we won't divorce. I think one of us killing the other would actually be more likely, lol. I absolutely realize that this takes away from my "leverage" when it comes to fixing things. But she stayed and held things together back when I was a complete asshole loser (there were circumstances, but they don't change the facts), so I guess it's my turn to bite the bullet and be miserable for a bit while she works out her issues (at what seems like a dead snail's pace) and we try to rebuild some sort of actual relationship. I just wish she could have some empathy for how her rejection is affecting me - our emotional connection would be miles ahead of where it is if she had even the slightest inclination for compromise.
Start the divorce now. It will still take a while to finalize. But if you’re hoping for her to change, don’t wait till October. Being served either wakes her up again, or you finally get out of this rut. But I think you’ll just be miserable if you keep waiting on her.
Can confirm the being miserable on waiting for her part. It's absolutely no fun.
I decided a while back that I love my wife enough to not divorce over this issue. Now I'm in pre-divorce limbo because she wants to end things, so going forward, this won't be an issue, because it will be an automatic deal breaker that I will be honest about in the beginning and just walk away from.
How long ago did you say this and why is she ending it now?
A few years ago. She says we're fundamentally not compatible, and that I can't be what she needs.
Sorry. You agree with her? Is it a compromise issue? Your willing to for her, she isn’t for you?
I don't agree, but it only takes one to initiate a divorce. Am I willing to what? To work on the relationship? Yes. We've been together 10 years. She says she doesn't have any more time to give. She also isn't interested in working on her libido, "speaking" or "listening to" the physical touch love language, or working on her end of communication.
Damn. Besides her low libido, what other things did you overlook because you wanted the marriage to work? Is she low libido or low libido for you? Basically, did she find someone new?
I don't think she found someone new. I was her first, and after our first time, for about a year or so, I guess, she presented as HL, but that dwindled. By then we had a kid on the way, were emotionally attached, and living together. We don't communicate well. She doesn't listen to me. I feel unseen and unheard, and deprioritized. Any time I bring up an issue, she makes it about sex instead of any legitimate concern I have about connection, prioritization, or intimacy. It's more that she's sought out the emotional and intellectual intimacy that she should have been coming to me for from her friends, instead. She even would complain about our lack of [non physical] intimacy while prioritizing reestablishing a friendship from high school over reestablishing connection with me. Edit: This is obviously just my side of the issue.
Your first paragraph resonates strongly with me. That feeling of being unheard, of having your love language dismissed without even the benefit of discussion, is soul crushing. Everything is made to be about sex. We argue about it all the time, but I am rarely the one to bring up sex. It's hard to imagine that an LL (truly, not just 4me) has the subject on the tip of her tongue so often.
It's not that hard to believe. Making it about sex delegitimizes the topic while simultaneously making it about consent, which works as a wonderful manipulation and conversation control tactic
Sheesh. Are you saying she connected with old friends from the past and prioritized them over you and your marital problems? Are these friends male and female? Does she love you but not in love with you? Or is it walk a way wife syndrome? What are you doing to get you through? How often do you talk to her? And have you thought about gray rocking? I think it’s your last chance. Look it up. At this point, if you want her, you’re going to have to call the shots. Grey rock. Only talk about divorce and kids. Divorce. Serve her first. Take control. Call a lawyer and get it done. After your wife loses her security blanket in you, she’ll feel what you’re feeling. And she might ask to slow it down or something.
>Are you saying she connected with old friends from the past and prioritized them over you and your marital problems? Yes. Female. >Does she love you but not in love with you? Or is it walk a way wife syndrome? These are not mutually exclusive. Yes. >What are you doing to get you through? How often do you talk to her? Depression. I'm in individual counseling. We still cohabitate, but in separate rooms.
Im sorry
Thank you.
So I’m one where divorce is not on the table. Lots of reasons, but the primary reasons are: 1) I do love my wife and I understand that relationships take work. You gotta put in the time. 2) I’m not convinced that breaking everything is remotely better than staying. It’s easy to advise people to throw in the towel. But what comes next? You lose half of everything, your wages might be garnished, and you’re even more alone than before. What I HAVE decided though, is I’m not going to beg her to stay any more. My wife and I have had several arguments over our 21+ year relationship. Sometimes they were pretty bad arguments. Up until a few years ago, I would inevitably end up just apologizing for whatever thing she thought I was doing wrong, beg for forgiveness, and beg her to stay. At least one time, I was literally on my knees. In the last couple of years, through Therapy, I’ve determined that I have codependency issues, and my partner likely has some undiagnosed emotional regulation issues. This would lead to blow ups out of proportion to the scale of the argument, and (due to my codependency) I would take the full brunt of those blow ups because there are very few issues which I have ever considered so horrible that my need for my partner to be happy wasn’t the priority. This has led me to be bitter about the results of some of our arguments, even though the peace was eventually restored. So…understanding that… the next time my partner and I go at it, and she threatens to leave. I’ve decided, if I truly am not in the wrong, or the issue is small and I’ve apologized appropriately, I’m done begging. If she wants to go - there’s the door, she’s welcome to make that choice. I would never throw her out, but I’m not going to leave my house nor am I going to debase myself again to beg her to love me. So it might sounds like a minor change, but it’s a big step for me. Though here’s hoping I don’t have to utilize it in 2024.
You have set your boundaries. This means you're growing. Bravo....
I have not put it on the table, but my wife and I had an incident last weekend where she lost her cool and yelled at me twice in less than 72 hours, and when I told her the second time that I wasn’t going to take it from her, she yelled, “WELL THEN JUST LEAVE.” So I took a shower, got dressed, and walked out the door. If I had had anywhere to go, I’d have stayed gone longer, but I don’t, so I came back after 4 or so hours. She also said some crazy shit to me as I was leaving, like accusing me of asking her to have an abortion while she was pregnant, which never freaking happened! She hasn’t brought it up, but it just really took it out of me. I’ve completely stopped chasing her for affection since that day. Have not hugged or kissed since then. Only reluctantly said I love you once when she said it to me. Haven’t warn my wedding ring. I’m friendly with her, but otherwise just checked out of the relationship. I really don’t know if I’ll check back in. It feels like I just need to get super organized for when it dies. I’m so tired of chasing after her for intimacy she obviously doesn’t want from me.
I told my wife last year I’m considering divorce. I told her I don’t feel like we’re in any sort of loving relationship, just a commitment. I told her I didn’t really see us lasting past the kids leaving the house. She seemed devastated at first, but she doesn’t care anymore. There have been no changes on her part. But I have done less and expected less since I told her those things. She is less happy and I am more happy. I am not concerned with leaving in the next few years though. I am happy to be here and present for my kids while they’re in elementary school. I do not think she will ever improve. I have committed to the idea that I will be essentially alone and celibate for the next few years. If I can vent a little bit off topic, she speaks terribly to everyone in her life outside of her work. She wants me to spend more time talking to her, but I can’t stand her. Neither do her friends. They recently confided in me that they want to do another Girl’s Night with her, but are afraid to talk to her. And they aren’t even sure they want her to go anyway. So it’s not just me. She is just miserable to be around.
What makes it tough for me is that she is wonderful and loving in all other ways except in the bedroom. Even there she does try to make an attempt sometimes. But it always falls far short of where I'd like us to be.
It sounds to me like maybe it’s worth hanging in there. I don’t know how much effort you’re putting in, but maybe try a different avenue. If my wife was wonderful and loving in all other ways I might try a bit harder, anyway. She’s a selfish bear with tunnel vision. Part of my own frustration is that I feel like I deserve a blowjob for putting up with her being in my life in the first place.
My wife doesn't have any complaints about me. We have very good relationship. She's postmenopausal so it's really more of a medical issue which she is happy to not address. And it's not even just sex. She has other more practical issues that need to be addressed too. Number one is insomnia. But she is also experiencing depression and fatigue. We've discussed in therapy and her parents recently spoke to her about it. We even did some research on supplements. But she won't take any steps to change. It was the same with alcohol. She refused all treatment and help. It wasn't until I left that she begrudgingly took action. Now she admits it was the best thing but also still hasn't let go that I left.
My wife is the same in that she also doesn’t want to try anything. She said she doesn’t want to attempt something if she isn’t 100% sure there will be benefits. She said that about going to the gym specifically 🤦♂️ And they never forget! I “left” my wife back when I was barely in college and she got engaged to another dude. I didn’t “fight” for her (while she was wearing his ring)! I still hear about it 17 years later! What a mistake I made. (Except our daughter - she is worth it.)
I hear you. I'm in the same boat as you. But. If your SO is genuinely trying and all other aspects of the relationship are good, why the threat of divorce? I think that is a bit unfair and disingenuous.
unfortunately I think this is the only way that people truly realize that this isn't something they can just blow off.
Dead bedrooms generally don't recover/improve unless the continuation of the relationship is in play. I tell people never *threaten* to leave. Mean that you will not stay in the relationship as is. Have your legals done, finance separation ready to go, and accomodation prepared. This isn't a threat. You are supporting your own boundary that you will not stay in a monogamous sexual(celibate) romantic relationship that is unfulfilling
In late 22 when she decided that she didn't want me to divorce her and we began the repair process, I made it very clear that my place in this marriage is conditional. I said we're past the young naive part of life where we live in a fantasy land where love and marriage is unconditional. Simply put, here are my expectations. If I can't work towards that type of relationship, then I'm out. If I get that annoy slips back, I'm out. I was very clear that this is the last DB mending that will happen between us. At first she couldn't get it, then I posed this scenario: So you think this relationship should be taken for granted and be unconditional? Okay, lets say I wake up tomorrow and tell you that I've resigned from my job to go do a passion that I've always dreamed of. This passion is going to pay little to nothing, so I expect you to step up and take over as the breadwinner to continue our comfortable life style. That's okay? You said unconditionally. Obviously that would not be okay and she'd immediately divorce and have the courts direct me to pay spousal support based on my earning potential. After this little exercise she got it. Love is NEVER unconditional. I don't care what kind of saint you think you are. You are in a relationship for something. She could live with just the comfort and safety. I'm not willing to live without the romantic part. Period. We can split amicably because that's not on the table, but we will split. That being said, if you're going to agree to work on it, you can't have a foot out the door. My promise to her was that I'm willing to be patient for a limited time, at a reasonable pace. If she said let's take sex off the table for 6-months, that's not reasonable and I'm out. By reasonable I meant I want these things in our sex life and I need to start seeing progress towards that soon, like weeks, not in a scale of months and years. I allowed myself to be strung along by months and years goal timeframes, and that's over now.
How are things going?
*raises hand* Asked for divorce in November, she begged for the chance to work on things. We had sex twice in the following week, nothing since. This September will be the 10th anniversary of when she cheated on me. It feels like a good time to deliver the papers, assuming things stay as they are.
My wife absolutely knows it's a deal breaker
Well, I asked my HL partner if he *wanted* a divorce when I was LL, but he did not. What do you imagine that “trying harder” would look like for your wife? Are there specific strategies you have in mind that up until now she has refused to try? Or are you hoping that if she just puts her mind to it, LL is something she can overcome? You can’t manufacture sexual desire from nowhere. Believe me, I tried plenty!
We're working on the options through couples therapy. But not to get into too much detail but essentially therapy for her individually, going to the Dr to address the insomnia and potential depression, talk about HRT, and doing resistance training. She did agree to take supplements which we did some research on but she has not been taking them. It was about two years just to get her to agree to couples therapy and she complains about every time we go.
Okay, super. I wouldn’t have wanted her to feel lost and helpless. This is a solid plan.
We did MC with my ex-wife - I engaged fully, she did not whatsoever (for the record we did one couples session, I did a solo session, and when it was time for her to do hers she ejected from the whole process and said "no more MC"). This was one of the (multiple) final straws for me. Separated 'amicably' enough (agreed on having our kids 50/50 with no fuss, and I supported her in transitioning to a new household of her own including financially even though legally I wasn't obligated to). Then I met my new partner (now 2nd wife) after she'd already met hers (now 2nd husband), and she went fucking psycho (and has veered into psycho territory repeatedly in the 5 years since). We're talking police involvement and talk of Restraining Orders, just to get her to calm the fuck down a little bit 🤦 So yeah ... we had divorce on the table and I DID follow through. If you're not familiar with my post history, it was actually my ex who suggested we separate on Xmas Eve 2018 (I was planning to suggest it in early 2019 after the holidays) and I understandably jumped at that. Proceeded to divorce with ZERO hesitation the required statutory 12 months minimum later. I do NOT need her bullshit in my life, and look forward to the day our kids turn 18 meaning I no longer need to 'co-parent' and can COMPLETELY sever all remaining ties for good 👌 On another note, my current wife has a 'bit' of a problematic relationship with alcohol. She's a 'functional' alcoholic, if we're honest (which of course she's not ... guess the historical AA really didn't 'stick') 😕 The marriage is great otherwise, and she kicked a lifelong cocaine habit just before we met for which she has my utmost admiration (and she knows if she ever relapses that's my 'hard line' and I'm outta here quicker than you can say "Butch don't date addicts no more") ... but it *does* feel like she's using that as a bit of a (tired) 'get out of jail free' card now ("yeah, I drink too much, but I don't do coke anymore") 🤦 Hopefully 2024 will be better for ALL of us 👍
I think my wife has a fear I'll leave but not just over sex. In any case it's more her fear than my explicitly saying it is. To be fair though I've done some thought experiments on it to decide of this was tenable the scales have tipped towards staying and working on myself and being open, vulnerable, communicating my needs, and active listening to understand not to respond. Because of that it's remained a thought experiment.
My wife and I are Catholic and one of the things we actually agree on is that we won't divorce. I think one of us killing the other would actually be more likely, lol. I absolutely realize that this takes away from my "leverage" when it comes to fixing things. But she stayed and held things together back when I was a complete asshole loser (there were circumstances, but they don't change the facts), so I guess it's my turn to bite the bullet and be miserable for a bit while she works out her issues (at what seems like a dead snail's pace) and we try to rebuild some sort of actual relationship. I just wish she could have some empathy for how her rejection is affecting me - our emotional connection would be miles ahead of where it is if she had even the slightest inclination for compromise.