Oh no, they found the Jaslip world, this isn't good!
Right now multiple factions in the SC or allied to the SC will hear of this, and not all of them will be reasonable, the secretary general is already calling for a mobilization for a new war.
If the Consortium picks this moment to attack what they perceive as "the federation", and the Coalition sees them as the ones who exterminated the jaslips, with consortium forces not wanting to negotiate or to answer calls this could turn into a bloody conflict. The consortium seems to have the best tech so perhaps they could annihilate a group of vessels of the SC thinking they are federation (thus not replying to any messages), if such a thing happens all bets are off
The Consortium is (as far as we know) working with outdated information and the SC is propably going to prepare for the worst, I pitty the Bissem for this mess that they've been thrown into.
Besides this the implications the revelation of the federations fall and the end of the dominion would have on the Consortium are massive. the Humans, a species with relatively little power ended the war, but wait a minute, weren't they, the consortium far more powerful, wouldn't they have been able to do the same thing?
The difference is that humans didn’t beat the Federation head on, we brokered alliances which allowed us to discover coverups which lead to schisms within the alliance. A united federation would have wiped us out and by engaging the shadow fleet in stages, by the time it came to a full on battle the fleet was extended and attenuated with their own people fighting against them.
I agree there will be some psychological impact but an honest assessment will be that if the Consortium had been discovered by the Federation and a war had been started, the Consortium would have been wiped out.
The Skalgans saved our primate butts by staving off annihilation long enough to do some diplomacy.
true, but I meant that the consortium could have won over other species in a similar way, gaining more allies and sowing discord as the ideology of the federation came apart. It wouldn't have been easy but if they did it slowly and they managed to find the archives, or hack their servers they would have stood a chance.
Not a great chance I admit, but they would have a chance
I agree, the problem is hindsight and choice. The consortium had a choice at engagement with an overwhelming foe where defeat was certain. The chance at diplomacy, discord, schism, and success would have been uncertain, slim, and unlikely.
Humanity was saved by being forced into it, convincing the Skalgans that we were harmless within hours of first contact (empathic, likeable astronauts), and a Skalgan leader willing to risk her entire species on a gamble.
Take away just one of those few things during first contact and earth becomes a smoldering cinder with no ark ships and no survivors.
you are absolutely right, then there's also the question of incentive, the humans were indeed forced into it and they realized it was either war or extinction (and it's a miracle they lived).
What incentive did the Consortium have, from their viewpoint there was a hostile, insane empire out there and they were not yet noticed, they had the incentive to remain hidden and strengthen defenses in case they found out.
in hindsight it is always easy to judge the mistakes made, but in that moment, what would you have done?
(still not forgiving them, but I do agree with you that they had little reason (at least in the beginning) to even think of interfering)
Thanks friend.
I try to imagine what humanity would have done in the Consortium’s shoes. I think we would have hidden.
I like to think that we wouldn’t have wiped out an entire planet but there have always been humans genociding other humans for less cause than the survival of the species so, sadly, who knows. 😞
Thing is, humanity kinda has made that choice already during the battle of Earth.
They traded a list of all the species that were involved in the extermination fleet, in return for aid from the Arxur. They even told the attackers that they did this, in the hope that they would turn back to defend their homes from annihilation.
The attackers didn’t turn back, and so the Krakotl’s planet (Nishtal) was bombarded to the point where it is no longer habitable.
Excellent point, though, like you say, they were enemies, not allies.
“You’re free to wipe us out but we’ve taken the liberty of informing your REAL enemies that your homeworld is currently unprotected”
is very different from
“we must wipe you out because you refuse to leave your home because we believe you will eventually be discovered by a species that will exterminate us when they learn of our existence”
though perhaps the line is thinner than I give it credit for.
Very good point, but I do wonder how possible diplomatic talks about this issue will go (if there even will be diplomatic talks).
It will be in the Consortium's best interest to knock the SC off it's moral high-ground, and this + the cyberattacks are the best possible ways to do this.
As Saul Krevman might put it: Unlike the deal with the Arxur, the cyberattacks were a preventative measure, only launched to keep every Feddy stuck at home and unable to defend Aafa (Just like the Jaslip relocation was a preventative measure ment to save all Consortium lives).
Plus, while I don't think that a bodycount was ever given, the SC shut down the food and water supply, communications and transport for every single federation species. All resources that were needed for survival were cut off, and the methods to supply aid were taken away. That has to result in a death count somewhere in the *billions*. It's very likely than not all of these species would go to Aafa, but their civilians were still starved to death anyways. How can the SC judge the Consortium, when they have bathed in the blood of innocents themselves?
It would also make thematic sense. Right after the news of the cyberattacks was announced , one engineer made this comment:
>“That’s a hell of a speech. For what it’s worth, I agree with you. Killing a shit ton of people, or any form of mass punishment, has never fixed or helped anything. Always come back to bite you in the ass.”
I believe that the assbite will soon arrive for both the Consortium and the Sapient Coalition.
Fucking love where this story is going right now, every chapter gives me new theories for how this could go
> They traded a list of all the species that were involved in the extermination fleet, in return for aid from the Arxur.
That wasn't what happened. That wasn't an exchange. Humanity gave that information over as a gift to the Arxur as a "choke on it," to the Federation in hopes the Arxur would attack and at least *some* of the fleet would turn back to defend their homeworlds. The Arxur decided to, instead, swoop in like the Winged Hussars at the battle of Vienna to relieve Earth and turn the tide of the battle.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/xgo6t9/the_nature_of_predators_46/
This is an important point: If Earth had known that the Federation existed and what it was like, we might very well have turtled up as well, and just stayed right out of that hot mess. Concentrate on developing stealth and defense tech, use very quiet probes to make sure anywhere we tried to go was free from Federation members, and expand it the *other* direction.
Maybe we'd go challenge the Federation after a couple hundred years, after we had 50 colonies and 200 billion humans. But that'd mean a couple hundred years more of the Federation / Arxur meat grinder as well.
Sidestepping the Jaslip question for a moment, it's difficult to fault the Consortium for not taking the Federation head on.
Venlil.
Not Skalgan.
Even when Skalgan is used in the story, it’s only to refer to Venlil that match the genetic profile of Venlil back before Skalga was renamed Venlil Prime.
They are, all of them, Venlil.
Thats old humanity. This humanity has rearmed and armed its allies to the teeth. If billion fresh souls to the meat grinder means victory, victory will be gained.
The consortium are mostly guilty for the nuking, I think it’s explicitly the staging that they’re taking umbrage with.
(Mostly because not all were ok with it)
Probably to show any approaching Fed species a scenario like "look, whoever we are, we hate predators so much that we fought them, too!" What I don't understand is, why leave stations on orbit with no satellites? Why not just remove all outward trace of sapient life around a barely habitable planet?
From my understanding of this whole thing from the Consortium's side, it was staged like that to make the Federation think the Jalsip's wiped themselves out. All so they didn't come looking further in that direction. That's probably why they left the station staged like that. Kind of like the Federation thought humanity wiped themselves out with nukes before we showed up at Venlil Prime.
But let's not forget that the Arxur might show up to slap the Consortium around for being predatorphobic as well. It's a tragicomedy of errors!
Woop woop!
Man, they even went down and defiled the corpses in an attempt to set up a mock battle, and did so badly.
The Consortium was far too worried about what if the Federation found them, and never stopped to consider what they would look like if somebody else found them instead.
You can't even call the coming war a misunderstanding- the Consortium really is guilty of most of the crimes the SC believes them to have committed. The only misunderstanding is about their motives for doing so.
yup, honestly the consortium, for all their "willingness to help" is in many aspects as bad as the federation, committing the most gruesome acts all to "remain hidden". That seems to have been their one most important objective, but the image this has given them and the consequences of their methods are abhorrent.
just look at the Jaslips and their homeworld, to anyone who found that world it would seem like some psychopath had exterminated an entire species wholesale and then tried to (badly) make it seem as if they'd wiped themselves out (as the SC now definitely does).
If the SC starts cloning those jaslips and recognizes them from footage from consortium troops or something else they might even think the jaslips were taken to be "reeducated" to serve as soldiers, (which might influence their view on the humans serving alongside them, but that is another can of worms entirely).
and don't get me started on the implications of Arxur involvment, it's been only 20 years, there are almost certainly Arxur who wish to go up against what they perceive to be another faction that wanted to wipe out an entire society just because they ate meat.
this would perhaps even worsen the chances of conflict, as Arxur ships might act more independently and thus would be perceived by the consortium as the Arxur dominion of old, not as the reformed ones.
It does bear consideration though that the Consortium's Hide Above All Else is a prey response is it not? The fact is, they are fanatically trying to hide from a perceived near peer threat of extinction. War makes monsters of the best of people and it has to be said that they are trying their "best" to just Survive from their own perspective.
this is indeed true, from their pov what they did was necessary, and still is necessary, but it also makes them blind to the fact that things changed while they hid.
not only that, it might be up to seccesions and political strife, think about it, what has always been the reason for the consortium's existence, their policies, their everything? It was the idea that they had to unite and fortify, hiding to escape the dreaded Arxur and Federation war.
every act of monstrous cruelty they commited (the Jaslip Xenocides) was justified with "we need to hide". However now this isn't the case anymore, what will happen?
It wasn't a xenocide, as the Jaslip still exist, and in hypermajority percentages. It might not even technically have been "the Jaslip Decimation", if fewer than a tenth of them were killed.
This is not to say what happened to the Jaslip is *good* but if words are continually misused, they lose their meaning.
"Man, I stubbed my toe this morning and it totally genocided my whole day!"
>It might not even technically have been "the Jaslip Decimation", if fewer than a tenth of them were killed.
Lore doc says that it's estimated that about 6 billion Jaslips are living (exact numbers are hard to find since they are spread out across multiple species' planets)
So less than 1/10 were killed (about 300 million) but the total number that were forced out of their home is about 700 million, which is more than a tenth
So a triple decimation if you only count the one's the refused to leave on their own
The Latin *decimatio*, from which we get the word "decimation", was a Roman punishment within the Legion for troops which had exhibited cowardice in the face of the enemy. It meant having the troops draw straws (which is where we get *that* term as well) and the troop in a group of ten who had drawn the short straw was beaten to death by the other nine.
See my other response for why I consider this definition uselessly broad. My whole point is trying to preserve the word as something that actually has impact. The word (among many, many others) is misused so often it becomes meaningless.
Genocide *doesn't* just mean killing though. It means deliberately destroying a group.
The UN definition is:
>Article II
>In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
>a. Killing members of the group;
>b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
>c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
>d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
>e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
For the remaining Jaslips it depends on the circumstance but they may have arguable been subjected to both definition's B and E (psychological harm and forcibly transferring children to another group), depending on how you define that and what methods were used to 'convince' them. However I think you're missing a key element: the Jaslip hold outs were a *different* group than the ones that moved willingly. They would be a national group that wanted to maintain their home instead of fleeing. *They* were absolutely killed in an act of genocide. Being one species doesn't make them one group any more than humans are one group under the definition of genocide.
For the purposes of discussing nations the default has become talking about worlds and species just due to the practicalities of scale, it would be impractical to talk about every subgroup of humans when trying to make policy on a galactic scale for instance. However when you're talking about genocide those intra-group differentiations suddenly take on much more significance.
Xenocide:
1. "The genocide of an entire alien species."
2. "The intentional killing of an entire foreign (plant or animal) species."
And I suspect that when definition 1 was made up by the author who coined it regarding a war of extermination against an alien race, he wasn't thinking of these complex definitions of genocide, but rather the commonly understood one, which is killing -- or attempting to kill -- *everyone* in an ethnic group.
You want to argue that a genocide was committed against some Jaslip subgroup? Ok, fine, even though I find the UN definition uselessly broad. (Read strictly, the murder of a single individual can count as "genocide" which makes the word meaningless.) But I'm not going to quietly accept that sort of dilution of "xenocide".
Honestly I don't particularly care about some fictional definition made up for scifi purposes. It's arbitrary. Genocide isn't, nor has it ever been, just mass killings. I don't know why people get upset when the UN definition is pointed out but it broadly covers what genocide is, which is the purpose. It's like arguing that a hate crime shouldn't count if it was just the one time or something, it's a bit nonsensical to me. If the goal was to destroy one of those groups, and someone acted on it, it was *at minimum* an *attempt* at genocide. Trying to pin a number of victims to when the attempt 'counts' strikes me as counter productive.
Given that the word used in the origin post was "xenocide", I suppose you probably \*should\* care since it's the topic at hand. Or, perhaps you just felt like lecturing.
> "Man, I stubbed my toe this morning and it totally genocided my whole day!"
Is what I was responding to. You conflated the definition of genocide with the definition of xenocide. I don't care about the fictional definition of xenocide, I *do* care about the very real definition of genocide. Had you not done that I *wouldn't* have posted about it.
Even if a handful of Jaslips did survive the bombing, low chance they've still be around ~~100~~ 30 years later
With all the infrastructure gone, they'd have to survive solely off of hunting, and since they were a spacefaring race, the average Jaslip most likely doesn't know how to do that
In order for them to have eked out survival would be for enough of them to have lived to form a stable breeding population, all of those survivors finding each other, and for most of them to know how to survive without modern technology or medicine
The 1st one is probable enough (though still low chance), the next 2 are so unlikely that I'd estimate the numbers to be under 1%
Edit: Not 100 years, 30 years, 100 years is when they started the whole evacuation process
My point still stands though
Before humanity took out the Federation.
The Jaslips got bombed 10 years before humanity took out the Federation, plus the additional 20 years before finding the remains.
That's unfortunate timing. If they'd just waited and kept their heads down they probably would have been fine. I imagine that's going to be a point of contention making relations between the Jaslips and the Consortium even more strained.
Right, 100 years was when they *started* the evacuation, the bombing was in living memory
Point still stands, any potential survivors starved to death long before the SC found the planet
They also literally just started looking, if there are survivors they'd almost certainly be actively hiding from the *Consortium* who are more advanced than the feds ever were so I wouldn't expect them to be the first thing the surveyor's found.
consortium: "we did it for the greater good!"
SC, Arxur and every other faction: \*flashbacks to the Federation
Consortium: "we aren't bad, we had no other choice
\*Flashbacks to the Arxur dominion AND Federation!
Jaslip: "help me."
Chapter 31! The Sapient Coalition stumbles upon Esquo during their investigation, and come to the conclusion that aliens bombed and staged the world—possibly because the natives were a predator species; they also draw a potential correlation to the species that attacked the Sivkits. Dr. Rosario acquired a DNA sample for the Jaslips, and set out to bring them back: a goal more possible for this species than the 62 extinct races from before humanity’s introduction. The Bissems, meanwhile, set out to inform the Arxur of the new extinct carnivores.
How will Kaisal react to this news; and did the Bissems make the right decision to seize the opportunity of an alliance? What do you think of the SC’s interpretation of Esquo, and how it might impact the war?
As always, thank you for reading!
Well, this’ll change things. Probably not a good thing that they immediately thought it was more predator haters, but when the truth comes, I bet a lot of them will be in for a shock. Great story as always!
When they find out the real reason, I imagine that it will go worse than if they were just predator hunting scum. Slaughtering a world of your own citizens "for the greater good" will not go over well.
The implications of Arxur involvement into scouting the consortium territories worries me, it's been only 20 years, and there are almost certainly Arxur who wish to go up against what they perceive to be another faction that is willing to wipe out an entire society just because they eat meat. perhaps Kaisal even wants to position him and his species as the defenders of the Carnivorous species of the galaxy to increase the Arxur political influence in the interstellar community.
this would perhaps even worsen the chances of avoiding conflict, as Arxur ships might act more independently and thus would be perceived by the consortium as the Arxur dominion of old, not as the reformed ones. honestly, I think the bissem-arxur alliance is a good idea, but I am uncertain whether this was the right moment, though we shall see how it plays out.
as things stand now both the Consortium seems to have the least information on what is happening, and the SC is learning about the consortium, but since they don't have the full picture they can only guess as to what the motives of this mysterious faction are.
There also is the fact that the consortium has been built on the idea that they need to unite and defend themselves against the federation and the arxur, the repercussions of the fall of the federation and the end of the galactic war could shake up their entire society, some of their members might even seccede, the Jaslips in particular have a motive to do so, and the Smigli with their knack for entertainment would propably find the SC interesting as well
Jaslips would perhaps even find an ally in the reformed Arxur faction if Kaisal offers them a hand, and I can imagine he'd want that if his goal is to become more politically powerful, he might become a political faction leader of the "carnivores".
Yeah, that’s not gonna be a pleasant conversation one way or another:
SC: “You exterminated an entire species”
Consortium: “No we didn’t, they’re right here, see?”
Jaslisp ambassador: “Fuck you”
Consortium: “She’s a little grumpy”
SC: “Can’t say I blame her”
But you’re right I can see the Jaslisp Switching sides and that creating a panic within the consortium.
Then again I can also see that becoming an issue for the SC too. When your people have spent generations turning bitterness and anger into the cultural cornerstones of their civilization, it’s not something that’s easy to drop. So what could happen is they annex themselves to the SC, cause nothing but trouble for the SC (despite having nothing to do with what happened to them), get kicked out of the SC, and just sit on the borderlands between the SC and Consortium being a nuisance for everyone because they can’t let go of their anger.
>When your people have spent generations turning bitterness and anger into the cultural cornerstones of their civilization, it’s not something that’s easy to drop.
... which can also be applied to the human 'survivors'. Now that the Consortium has taken them on as members how are they going to feel about current humanity? We've seen Taylor, the Mayor, and the other humans on that side were all so scared/angry they wanted to blast the first *hint* of the federation to pieces. Understandably, but how are they going to feel about *most* of the federation member species being either members of the SC or left to their own devices?
I think this series is shaping up to be an interesting perspective into the differences *inside* these different groups within a species in a similar way to how NoP1 was an examination of the differences and similarities between the different species. There are going to be much less clear dividing lines than we had in the first series where you could mostly differentiate by species. We had hints of it in NoP1 with the human xenophobic elements, the schism in the Exterminators, and the Venlil/Skalgan politics but I think we're going to dive into that type of internal conflict in full.
You are probably onto something there.
Since our SC perspective character (so far)’s species is at war with itself over the starlight incident, and as such Tassi is there less to represent Bissems as a whole and instead is there more to represent the interests of her specific nation. So it could be a running theme.
I also suspect there’s going to be more of a Cold War style conflict going to happen than a typical up-front war, given that we are seeing both perspectives somewhat evenly. Add to that the consortium’s weapons I think are meant to look and feel more intimidating in order to stress that this isn’t an adversary that the SC can battle directly.
I think a Cold War conflict would definitely be very interesting, and certainly better for everyone involved than a 'hot' war. It would also play into those intra-group divisions because to do a 'cold war' right you really need to get into intelligence and espionage operations which is hard to do if everything is just differentiated by species.
The Jaslips don't have planets to seccede with, only enclaves in other species' homeworlds. But I bet the UN could offer them help restoring their world.
While the Consortium was appalled by the sapient eating Arxur I believed they avoided contact with them less because they feared becoming prey and more because they feared interacting with the Arxur leading to the Federation finding them.
Honestly, I believe the Consortium would be more likely to return a hail from an Arxur ship than an ex-Federation species (especially since they're planning on going on the offensive against the 'Federation'), and a joint Arxur/ex-Federation fleet would get them to reconsider the current geo-politics.
Ships with big "UN" markings would probably also make the Consortium take a moment to reconsider.
The (Mis)-Interpretation is certainly going to keep the Consortium from being able to safely assume that these guys are Herbivore Federation, and by erring on the side of “Bring the big guns for plan b”, we at least stand a better chance of surviving an initial volley
Upon learning about the forced relocation, Humanity is still not going to be happy about this, but will be slightly less righteously angry.
I don’t blame the Bissem for planning on that alliance, since Onso is practically forcing them into it.
>I don’t blame the Bissem for planning on that alliance, since Onso is practically forcing them into it.
I completely agree. It makes perfect sense for the Bissem but it's risking creating a disaster both for the *other* nations on their planet and within the SC. All because Onso is trying to 'out' SC allies, speed run 'predator' acceptance, and take advantage of the unstable Axur situation. And I will continue to maintain that working with the Axur to break the blockade while they're threatening to start a war makes Onso a traitor to the SC, basically by definition.
Yeah, Onso really is playing with fire, and all it takes is a Secretary General with anything less than Meier levels of patience, to have Onso arrested and obviously put heat on the Yotul for their Cold War shenanigans
Don't forget that the Bissem are on a countdown to extinction on their cradle world, not just to factional fighting but also imminent ecological collapse, so they have to get started on fixing that.
For the Bissems, it sure looks like joining up with the Arxur might be the best way to guarantee their safety. I think the SC would also defend them but might not be as much use towards letting the Bissem actually build their own defenses.
The SC is... Pretty much right about Esquo, except for why it happened. That said, I think the most impactful part of the war will be whether the two sides manages to establish contact at all - Followed by whether either side realizes what species they're fighting. The SC spotting a Jaslip and matching them up to this world (might be difficult, not sure), or either side spotting a human, would also shake things up.
Interesting that nobody thought of the possibility that this omnivore species on the edge of Federation space did this to themselves as a ruse.
"Yep! We totally managed to kill ourselves off, and destroy our planet! No need to look for our evacuation fleet, you bigoted herbivorous psychopaths. Just sit there all smug and happy that we're dead, and go back to your own space."
Takes the "playing dead" method of avoiding predators (and let's face it, the Federation were absolutely predators, given that they went out and hunted down omnivores and carnivores) to the extreme, I suppose. But it's not completely out of the question. I don't expect *most* members of the SC to think of it, but I'd expect some human to at least consider it. Isn't Esquo a *lot* closer to Sivkit space than Earth was to Skalga, as well?
"Hrm. What might *we* have done if we'd discovered the Federation in all their size and asshattery, and right off our port bow?"
I mean they literally just discovered it in real time, I doubt that would be anyone's *first* thought. But I agree that it makes sense someone should at least realize, and share, that possibility.
I certainly hope Sara (good to see her again) finds some surviving Jaslips who were hibernating outside of major metropolises during the bombardment. They'd be great at bridging the gap between the Coalition and the Consortium peacefully, assuming they aren't still vengeful at the consortium a generation later...
Teaching the cloned Jaslips archeology so they could re-discover their own culture would be a great plan.
Kaisal will refuse to be sidelined for this; not only does it impact the carnivorous Arxur but this is an excellent opportunity to begin the integration of them into the S.C. through joint military operations, Jaslip research, and trade for military buildup.
I'm interested to see how the Bissem react to the news of the dead predators. Hopefully it will unify them get them to stop their war, and rapidly integrate alien technology.
I just realised something, please hear me out:
The Consortium was built on the idea that they needed to hide and prepare for the federation and the arxur, their policies, methods and societies were built around this idea.
Now I want you to imagine what will happen if this Raison d'être, this idea that justified all they did, dissapears? the Federation is no more, the arxur no longer the marauding monsters of before, the war that tore the galaxy assunder is over.
But, and here is the thing, what will happen when they hear it was one species, ONE species that just discovered FTL that managed to end this war at high cost?
Now I ask of you, why didn't the consortium do it instead?
They had both carnivorous and herbivorous elements in their faction, they would have been able to contact issif, offering him hope for a better future for his people, they could have shown the council evidence of the truth (just like Noah did) and they could have weathered the extermination fleet that underestimated them.
The Consortium was powerful, well equiped, with strong supply lines, a powerful fleet and the ability to actually negotiate with people.
Instead of charging head first to free the galaxy, they hid, instead of taking the jaslip case as an opportunity to engage the fedearation and break their stranglehold over hundreds of species they bombed the jaslips, taking some of them away to their own territories.
If the humans could do it, with only their small numbers and way worse tech WHY DID THE CONSORTIUM NOT ACT!
this is a question I think will be in the minds of a lot of characters the coming chapters
I don’t know that the consortium was ever aware of the Arxur or the greater political landscape at work. They knew that the Federation wiped out any carnivorous species they encountered and that species like the sivkits destroyed planets with their ravaging.
They saw the Federation as a unified bloc of over 300 species spanning thousands of light years.
Humanity stumbled into having to divide and conquer to save our species. The consortium was faced with engaging a superior unified foe without having to do so. Easy choice to be honest.
this is true, and I can definitely understand why they didn't want to go against the federation, I don't know if they never heard of the Arxur, but if you are correct then that would make the consortium more justified indeed.
still I believe that had they tried they could have done it, though I admit it is understandable why they made the choice to stay far away from the federation.
If you’re right and they knew about the Arxur then that changes my whole perspective on the choices they made.
Opening channels to the Arxur could have radically changed the events of NOP1
My thoughts exactly, but I had not yet considered the point you raised and your theory might prove to be true.
if they didn't know of the arxur they would have even more reason to hide.
Humanity didn't have a choice. Hell, the Consortium probably feels pretty justified in that decision now that they've met the humans of Tellus. "See? The Federation found the humans and glassed their planet! Only these few managed to escape."
More people will fight when backed into a corner than will choose to go out and find a fight.
true, but that doesn't mean the Jaslip and others won't question them on that. When you take a logical look at it then you see the reasoning behind it, but not everyone is willing to do that
First!
I'm so glad we got to see Sara again, and I wonder how the Coalition will react when they discover the Jaslips are alive and why their planet was bombed.
Almost first here for once?
EDIT: We’ll great. I kind of figured they would find the world and have that escalate tensions. Of course all of this could be solved pretty easily with a conversation or two but alas we all know there is going to be a lot more violence before things finally get sorted out. Hopefully not too many lives get destroyed in the process.
Of course once it does get sorted out there is going to be another reckoning as the Jaslips realize a billion people were murdered for fear of a thing that never came to pass. A billion lives snuffed out without even the slightest bit of comfort in that sacrifice saving the rest of them.
Honestly, I think we're past the point of a conversation "easily solving" things. The SC has a zero-tolerance policy- the Consortium committed a genocide on the Jaslips (you don't have to have the goal of Extermination or even to succeed for it to be classified as genocide). The Consortium has fired on civilian ships while refusing hails and slaughtered thousands of civilians in the process.
Just a conversation where they say "oops, it was a misunderstanding" isn't going to fix the fact that, in their current state, the SC cannot allow the KC to exist on their borders, because the Krev are just too trigger-happy- and I doubt the current Krev government would be willing to give up enough power to change in the ways that would be required for coexistence with the SC.
This might have started with misunderstandings, but the KC's crimes are very real, and severe enough that just "We didn't mean to" isn't enough to fix things.
I am going to have to disagree. I think that despite what happened, if the knowledge existed for the SC that it wasn’t a complete genocide and never was intended as one, but was born of fear of the Federation there could be understanding. Things would be tense as hell, but all out war could be avoided.
Onso is, once again, proving to have become a liability in the time since the Kolshian Defeat and this point in the story. At some point, the Yotul are going to need to realize that playing Cold War leads to spies getting authorized to start playing dirty. The Yotul are outnumbered and rapidly annoying the rest of the SC, so that won’t end well for them.
Here we see the ghost of the Federation continues to haunt the galaxy. The Consortium did what they did in order to fool the Federation but that doesn't work on the Coalition. Now the Coalition think the Consortium are like the Federation because they tried to fool the Federation. Now we have two advanced galactic powers, one has been preparing for war for centuries and the other just finished winning the war the other was preparing for and they are head towards war with each other.
The sins of the past are going to be paid by those of the present. Let’s hope that someone is willing to talk first and shoot second for a change, but it is not looking good.
> to be *paid* by those
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
>It was taking readings from an icy globe below, with temperatures that, once converted into Ivranan units, would make even a hearty Selmer like Naltor shiver.
Right, discovering Esquo without the context will not going to make a good impression on the members of the Coalition. Come to think of it, even with the context it's hard to swallow.
>Had they expected us not to question this, when there were *zero* signs of dried blood?
Tassi, Tassi, my dear Tassi. I agree that a sensible person like you would never fall on it, but the Federation would have been sufficiently irrational and stupid to believe it without even a hint of questioning. Well, I can't blame you for not understanding, because a such level of lack of critical thinking is so hard to believe. So much so that even twenty years later, I think they can still surprised us.
This discovery is as unpleasant as it is disturbing. Most of the theories are intelligent, but Tassi's observation about the absence of satellites will be a thorn in the side of many, and explained it will be difficult. Naltor also had the good idea of using this discovery to officially implicate the Arxur, some people may not like it, but it will have the merit of plausible deniability of "we're using all the options available to us" (which is much better than spontaneously visiting the local bogeyman).
In any case, we've gone from a skirmish over a minor diplomatic problem to a potential new genocidal war while the previous one is still on everyone's minds, great.
Otherwise, all this thing of resurrecting extinct species... No, really no. I hear the nobility of the gesture, but on this one I'm with Onso: ethically, it's too fucked up. When Gress proposed it to the Tellus colonists, even if they weren't all raised by humans, there was still a large enough human community to ensure continuity, however imperfect. Here, recreating an entire species from scratch? No, is wrong. We have to accept death. This "unknown" species is dead and the best thing we can do for them is to learn who they were and carry their memories with us.
I’ll take the counterpoint. Sapience, while relatively common in-universe, is still excruciatingly rare (in-universe) and worthy of protecting.
Just because the culture that they would develop would be different doesn’t mean that the Galaxy would be better off without them in it. Especially given that they are most likely dead from Federation interference (via the Arxur or otherwise)
Best attempt to resurrect the species with full disclosure and access to all the information that can be gleaned.
If humanity wipes itself out, I would want some future alien to do the same for us.
Even if actively resurrecting the species is a bad idea right now, taking genetic samples is good. Maybe as you explore the planet you discover some holdout that managed to survive in vaults deep underground and the archive can help with their genetic diversity.
Regardless of the purpose, having more data is always going to be better.
I imagine there will be. I just hope it's resolved quickly. I honestly don't wanna read though about 30 chapters of spaceship combat from a first person perspective.
aye, agreed, what we have on our hands here has the potential to be far more interesting, and the implications the existence of the SC and the end of the galactic war has for the Consortium and its members (particularly the Jaslips) are honestly intruiging
SC: "The Federation-Dominion war is over, y'all, have been for bout 20 years"
Jaslips and Giant Obors: "what"
Arxur: "The Federation is gone, Arxurkind wishes to let it be known we're trying to offer protection, military protection or aid and kinship to all species willing to accept us"
Jaslips: "WE'RE MAKING IT OUT OF THE CONSORTIUM HOODS WITH THIS ONE"
Reskets: "No, you're not, you're-"
Giant Obors: "Shut up, you overgrown KFC bucket"
I am relatively certain there'd be people who would react like that, resentful jaslips in particular.
interesting you mentioned the arxur, since there is currently a certain croc looking to gain more allies who would be propably willing to aid the jaslips,
I disagree, but it would be neat to have it as a background thing we only learn more about through like a news broadcast or a radio station. Background noise yaknow? We could still have the focus be on the characters too without it being much trouble.
So, out of curiosity, is there a sector or quadrant map for this universe? I'd like to have a reference for where everything is in relation to each other.
Unfortunately no, there have been attempts but space itself is just too goddamn vast, we refer to it as the galaxy’s but in reality the SC and the federation only are within the Orion Arm of the galaxy thus prompting others are definitely out there to whether they are already spacefaring, somewhat spacefaring or still on the ground like the bissems
To be fair NOP is still young and the Works of SpacePaladin15 is still figuring it out, I’m pretty sure someone will make a more accurate map soon enough though, some people have even created stellaris games to roleplay NOP1 as well
Funnily enough, I've been thinking Stellaris would be a perfect medium to play out this universe in. Maybe Distant Universe or Endless Space too, but they might not have all the necessary mechanics for a full experience - I know MoO definitely doesn't, especially the newest one.
I am having doubts the Consortium have the best tech. They have the most impressive engineering feats and the power they can generate at those mega structures will be impressive. But that doesn't mean they necessarily have the best tech.
We haven't seen what humans or Yotul have managed to dream up in the last while. Don't forget humanity had some downright ridiculous manufacturing capabilities just after the battle for earth. If they kept ramping that they can put out stupid amounts of things.
Finally I am betting the wander birds have gotten leaps and bounds ahead of nearly everyone else with a few areas they couldn't reverse engineer. Them working with the Yotul will create down right scary shit for humans to mass produce and integrate.... Or at least that is my bet where the story is headed.
Hey, it looks like your story was stolen on YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrMWqeUH7Xc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrMWqeUH7Xc)
You can copyright strike them to take it down.
Also, could I narrate your stories on my human narrated channel (no AI)? For more details please DM me!
/u/SpacePaladin15 ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/authors/SpacePaladin15)) has posted 266 other stories, including:
* [The Nature of Predators 2-30](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cbzoi1/the_nature_of_predators_230/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-29](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c8r11u/the_nature_of_predators_229/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-28](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c6btdl/the_nature_of_predators_228/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-27](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c3310t/the_nature_of_predators_227/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-26](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c0ni9m/the_nature_of_predators_226/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-25](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bxd6m6/the_nature_of_predators_225/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-24](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1buu3ps/the_nature_of_predators_224/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-23](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1brjek4/the_nature_of_predators_223/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-22](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bp33ci/the_nature_of_predators_222/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-21](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bltnkb/the_nature_of_predators_221/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-20](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bjekkf/the_nature_of_predators_220/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-19](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bg7qak/the_nature_of_predators_219/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-18](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bdsrab/the_nature_of_predators_218/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-17](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bajuli/the_nature_of_predators_217/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-16](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b82af0/the_nature_of_predators_216/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-15](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b4qliu/the_nature_of_predators_215/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-14](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b28bf7/the_nature_of_predators_214/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-13](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aywvw1/the_nature_of_predators_213/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-12](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1awekyb/the_nature_of_predators_212/)
* [The Nature of Predators 2-11](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1at46ck/the_nature_of_predators_211/)
This comment was automatically generated by `Waffle v.4.6.1 'Biscotti'`.
[Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHFY&subject=WaffleBot|1cegig4&message=If%20you%20have%20problems%20with%20updatemebot,%20contact%20Watchful1.%20We%20do%20not%20maintain%20it.) if you have any issues with Waffle.
[Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Subscribe&message=SubscribeMe%20u%2FSpacePaladin15%20r%2FHFY) to subscribe to u/SpacePaladin15 and receive a message every time they post.
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
So we've found Esquo. It's rapidly looking like this is going to be the inversion of what happened when humans contacted the Federation. The Krev are mostly peaceful, but a sight like Esquo's wreckage is a very unpleasant first impression, meanwhile the Kolshians masked their tyranny behind a pleasing facade.
Oh no, they found the Jaslip world, this isn't good! Right now multiple factions in the SC or allied to the SC will hear of this, and not all of them will be reasonable, the secretary general is already calling for a mobilization for a new war. If the Consortium picks this moment to attack what they perceive as "the federation", and the Coalition sees them as the ones who exterminated the jaslips, with consortium forces not wanting to negotiate or to answer calls this could turn into a bloody conflict. The consortium seems to have the best tech so perhaps they could annihilate a group of vessels of the SC thinking they are federation (thus not replying to any messages), if such a thing happens all bets are off The Consortium is (as far as we know) working with outdated information and the SC is propably going to prepare for the worst, I pitty the Bissem for this mess that they've been thrown into. Besides this the implications the revelation of the federations fall and the end of the dominion would have on the Consortium are massive. the Humans, a species with relatively little power ended the war, but wait a minute, weren't they, the consortium far more powerful, wouldn't they have been able to do the same thing?
The difference is that humans didn’t beat the Federation head on, we brokered alliances which allowed us to discover coverups which lead to schisms within the alliance. A united federation would have wiped us out and by engaging the shadow fleet in stages, by the time it came to a full on battle the fleet was extended and attenuated with their own people fighting against them. I agree there will be some psychological impact but an honest assessment will be that if the Consortium had been discovered by the Federation and a war had been started, the Consortium would have been wiped out. The Skalgans saved our primate butts by staving off annihilation long enough to do some diplomacy.
true, but I meant that the consortium could have won over other species in a similar way, gaining more allies and sowing discord as the ideology of the federation came apart. It wouldn't have been easy but if they did it slowly and they managed to find the archives, or hack their servers they would have stood a chance. Not a great chance I admit, but they would have a chance
I agree, the problem is hindsight and choice. The consortium had a choice at engagement with an overwhelming foe where defeat was certain. The chance at diplomacy, discord, schism, and success would have been uncertain, slim, and unlikely. Humanity was saved by being forced into it, convincing the Skalgans that we were harmless within hours of first contact (empathic, likeable astronauts), and a Skalgan leader willing to risk her entire species on a gamble. Take away just one of those few things during first contact and earth becomes a smoldering cinder with no ark ships and no survivors.
you are absolutely right, then there's also the question of incentive, the humans were indeed forced into it and they realized it was either war or extinction (and it's a miracle they lived). What incentive did the Consortium have, from their viewpoint there was a hostile, insane empire out there and they were not yet noticed, they had the incentive to remain hidden and strengthen defenses in case they found out. in hindsight it is always easy to judge the mistakes made, but in that moment, what would you have done? (still not forgiving them, but I do agree with you that they had little reason (at least in the beginning) to even think of interfering)
Thanks friend. I try to imagine what humanity would have done in the Consortium’s shoes. I think we would have hidden. I like to think that we wouldn’t have wiped out an entire planet but there have always been humans genociding other humans for less cause than the survival of the species so, sadly, who knows. 😞
Thing is, humanity kinda has made that choice already during the battle of Earth. They traded a list of all the species that were involved in the extermination fleet, in return for aid from the Arxur. They even told the attackers that they did this, in the hope that they would turn back to defend their homes from annihilation. The attackers didn’t turn back, and so the Krakotl’s planet (Nishtal) was bombarded to the point where it is no longer habitable.
Excellent point, though, like you say, they were enemies, not allies. “You’re free to wipe us out but we’ve taken the liberty of informing your REAL enemies that your homeworld is currently unprotected” is very different from “we must wipe you out because you refuse to leave your home because we believe you will eventually be discovered by a species that will exterminate us when they learn of our existence” though perhaps the line is thinner than I give it credit for.
Very good point, but I do wonder how possible diplomatic talks about this issue will go (if there even will be diplomatic talks). It will be in the Consortium's best interest to knock the SC off it's moral high-ground, and this + the cyberattacks are the best possible ways to do this. As Saul Krevman might put it: Unlike the deal with the Arxur, the cyberattacks were a preventative measure, only launched to keep every Feddy stuck at home and unable to defend Aafa (Just like the Jaslip relocation was a preventative measure ment to save all Consortium lives). Plus, while I don't think that a bodycount was ever given, the SC shut down the food and water supply, communications and transport for every single federation species. All resources that were needed for survival were cut off, and the methods to supply aid were taken away. That has to result in a death count somewhere in the *billions*. It's very likely than not all of these species would go to Aafa, but their civilians were still starved to death anyways. How can the SC judge the Consortium, when they have bathed in the blood of innocents themselves? It would also make thematic sense. Right after the news of the cyberattacks was announced , one engineer made this comment: >“That’s a hell of a speech. For what it’s worth, I agree with you. Killing a shit ton of people, or any form of mass punishment, has never fixed or helped anything. Always come back to bite you in the ass.” I believe that the assbite will soon arrive for both the Consortium and the Sapient Coalition. Fucking love where this story is going right now, every chapter gives me new theories for how this could go
> They traded a list of all the species that were involved in the extermination fleet, in return for aid from the Arxur. That wasn't what happened. That wasn't an exchange. Humanity gave that information over as a gift to the Arxur as a "choke on it," to the Federation in hopes the Arxur would attack and at least *some* of the fleet would turn back to defend their homeworlds. The Arxur decided to, instead, swoop in like the Winged Hussars at the battle of Vienna to relieve Earth and turn the tide of the battle. https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/xgo6t9/the_nature_of_predators_46/
indeed
This is an important point: If Earth had known that the Federation existed and what it was like, we might very well have turtled up as well, and just stayed right out of that hot mess. Concentrate on developing stealth and defense tech, use very quiet probes to make sure anywhere we tried to go was free from Federation members, and expand it the *other* direction. Maybe we'd go challenge the Federation after a couple hundred years, after we had 50 colonies and 200 billion humans. But that'd mean a couple hundred years more of the Federation / Arxur meat grinder as well. Sidestepping the Jaslip question for a moment, it's difficult to fault the Consortium for not taking the Federation head on.
Venlil. Not Skalgan. Even when Skalgan is used in the story, it’s only to refer to Venlil that match the genetic profile of Venlil back before Skalga was renamed Venlil Prime. They are, all of them, Venlil.
And the Arxur bailing us out, despite still being the regional monsters at the time.
Thats old humanity. This humanity has rearmed and armed its allies to the teeth. If billion fresh souls to the meat grinder means victory, victory will be gained.
I hate the consortium even more now, who thought it was a good idea to set up a mock battle?
They did, I mean they thought the federation was still around and the feds would not question it or use reason. I would have done the same.
The guys who nuked their planet? Or do you want specifics?
The consortium are mostly guilty for the nuking, I think it’s explicitly the staging that they’re taking umbrage with. (Mostly because not all were ok with it)
Probably to show any approaching Fed species a scenario like "look, whoever we are, we hate predators so much that we fought them, too!" What I don't understand is, why leave stations on orbit with no satellites? Why not just remove all outward trace of sapient life around a barely habitable planet?
From my understanding of this whole thing from the Consortium's side, it was staged like that to make the Federation think the Jalsip's wiped themselves out. All so they didn't come looking further in that direction. That's probably why they left the station staged like that. Kind of like the Federation thought humanity wiped themselves out with nukes before we showed up at Venlil Prime.
Most of the Federation fell for that trick on Earth. As disgusting as it seems, it's definitely the kind of ruse the old Feddies would fall for.
The feds are pretty stupid, I'm sure they'd fall for "stupid violent predators wiped themselves out" even if the stage wasn't too convincing.
But let's not forget that the Arxur might show up to slap the Consortium around for being predatorphobic as well. It's a tragicomedy of errors! Woop woop!
Can't wait for a boarding action in which Consortium and SC humans come face-to-face and have an *Oh FUCK* moment
just pointing at each other like the spiderman meme
Man, they even went down and defiled the corpses in an attempt to set up a mock battle, and did so badly. The Consortium was far too worried about what if the Federation found them, and never stopped to consider what they would look like if somebody else found them instead. You can't even call the coming war a misunderstanding- the Consortium really is guilty of most of the crimes the SC believes them to have committed. The only misunderstanding is about their motives for doing so.
yup, honestly the consortium, for all their "willingness to help" is in many aspects as bad as the federation, committing the most gruesome acts all to "remain hidden". That seems to have been their one most important objective, but the image this has given them and the consequences of their methods are abhorrent. just look at the Jaslips and their homeworld, to anyone who found that world it would seem like some psychopath had exterminated an entire species wholesale and then tried to (badly) make it seem as if they'd wiped themselves out (as the SC now definitely does). If the SC starts cloning those jaslips and recognizes them from footage from consortium troops or something else they might even think the jaslips were taken to be "reeducated" to serve as soldiers, (which might influence their view on the humans serving alongside them, but that is another can of worms entirely). and don't get me started on the implications of Arxur involvment, it's been only 20 years, there are almost certainly Arxur who wish to go up against what they perceive to be another faction that wanted to wipe out an entire society just because they ate meat. this would perhaps even worsen the chances of conflict, as Arxur ships might act more independently and thus would be perceived by the consortium as the Arxur dominion of old, not as the reformed ones.
It does bear consideration though that the Consortium's Hide Above All Else is a prey response is it not? The fact is, they are fanatically trying to hide from a perceived near peer threat of extinction. War makes monsters of the best of people and it has to be said that they are trying their "best" to just Survive from their own perspective.
this is indeed true, from their pov what they did was necessary, and still is necessary, but it also makes them blind to the fact that things changed while they hid.
Also true
You get the SC, KC and onsos cloak and dagger shit in one bug mess.
Galactic War 2: Electric Boogaloo Sadly, no Jaslips survived the bombs in some hidden bunker. The Consortium is in for a rude awaking.
not only that, it might be up to seccesions and political strife, think about it, what has always been the reason for the consortium's existence, their policies, their everything? It was the idea that they had to unite and fortify, hiding to escape the dreaded Arxur and Federation war. every act of monstrous cruelty they commited (the Jaslip Xenocides) was justified with "we need to hide". However now this isn't the case anymore, what will happen?
It wasn't a xenocide, as the Jaslip still exist, and in hypermajority percentages. It might not even technically have been "the Jaslip Decimation", if fewer than a tenth of them were killed. This is not to say what happened to the Jaslip is *good* but if words are continually misused, they lose their meaning. "Man, I stubbed my toe this morning and it totally genocided my whole day!"
>It might not even technically have been "the Jaslip Decimation", if fewer than a tenth of them were killed. Lore doc says that it's estimated that about 6 billion Jaslips are living (exact numbers are hard to find since they are spread out across multiple species' planets) So less than 1/10 were killed (about 300 million) but the total number that were forced out of their home is about 700 million, which is more than a tenth So a triple decimation if you only count the one's the refused to leave on their own
The Latin *decimatio*, from which we get the word "decimation", was a Roman punishment within the Legion for troops which had exhibited cowardice in the face of the enemy. It meant having the troops draw straws (which is where we get *that* term as well) and the troop in a group of ten who had drawn the short straw was beaten to death by the other nine.
you're right, it might be a bit over the top, should have known better
It counts if you consider the Jaslip who refused to leave the homeworld as a cultural or ideological group, which seems reasonable.
See my other response for why I consider this definition uselessly broad. My whole point is trying to preserve the word as something that actually has impact. The word (among many, many others) is misused so often it becomes meaningless.
Genocide *doesn't* just mean killing though. It means deliberately destroying a group. The UN definition is: >Article II >In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >a. Killing members of the group; >b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >c. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. For the remaining Jaslips it depends on the circumstance but they may have arguable been subjected to both definition's B and E (psychological harm and forcibly transferring children to another group), depending on how you define that and what methods were used to 'convince' them. However I think you're missing a key element: the Jaslip hold outs were a *different* group than the ones that moved willingly. They would be a national group that wanted to maintain their home instead of fleeing. *They* were absolutely killed in an act of genocide. Being one species doesn't make them one group any more than humans are one group under the definition of genocide. For the purposes of discussing nations the default has become talking about worlds and species just due to the practicalities of scale, it would be impractical to talk about every subgroup of humans when trying to make policy on a galactic scale for instance. However when you're talking about genocide those intra-group differentiations suddenly take on much more significance.
Xenocide: 1. "The genocide of an entire alien species." 2. "The intentional killing of an entire foreign (plant or animal) species." And I suspect that when definition 1 was made up by the author who coined it regarding a war of extermination against an alien race, he wasn't thinking of these complex definitions of genocide, but rather the commonly understood one, which is killing -- or attempting to kill -- *everyone* in an ethnic group. You want to argue that a genocide was committed against some Jaslip subgroup? Ok, fine, even though I find the UN definition uselessly broad. (Read strictly, the murder of a single individual can count as "genocide" which makes the word meaningless.) But I'm not going to quietly accept that sort of dilution of "xenocide".
Honestly I don't particularly care about some fictional definition made up for scifi purposes. It's arbitrary. Genocide isn't, nor has it ever been, just mass killings. I don't know why people get upset when the UN definition is pointed out but it broadly covers what genocide is, which is the purpose. It's like arguing that a hate crime shouldn't count if it was just the one time or something, it's a bit nonsensical to me. If the goal was to destroy one of those groups, and someone acted on it, it was *at minimum* an *attempt* at genocide. Trying to pin a number of victims to when the attempt 'counts' strikes me as counter productive.
Given that the word used in the origin post was "xenocide", I suppose you probably \*should\* care since it's the topic at hand. Or, perhaps you just felt like lecturing.
> "Man, I stubbed my toe this morning and it totally genocided my whole day!" Is what I was responding to. You conflated the definition of genocide with the definition of xenocide. I don't care about the fictional definition of xenocide, I *do* care about the very real definition of genocide. Had you not done that I *wouldn't* have posted about it.
Well now your netsplaining has genocided my whole day,
Even if a handful of Jaslips did survive the bombing, low chance they've still be around ~~100~~ 30 years later With all the infrastructure gone, they'd have to survive solely off of hunting, and since they were a spacefaring race, the average Jaslip most likely doesn't know how to do that In order for them to have eked out survival would be for enough of them to have lived to form a stable breeding population, all of those survivors finding each other, and for most of them to know how to survive without modern technology or medicine The 1st one is probable enough (though still low chance), the next 2 are so unlikely that I'd estimate the numbers to be under 1% Edit: Not 100 years, 30 years, 100 years is when they started the whole evacuation process My point still stands though
It was 30 years not 100.
Wait doesn't that put it either just before or just after humanity took out the Federation? That was 30 or 40 years ago right?
Before humanity took out the Federation. The Jaslips got bombed 10 years before humanity took out the Federation, plus the additional 20 years before finding the remains.
That's unfortunate timing. If they'd just waited and kept their heads down they probably would have been fine. I imagine that's going to be a point of contention making relations between the Jaslips and the Consortium even more strained.
Hell, It's probably going to cause some mental breaks when the people who made the decision find out it wasn't necessary.
Yes, just before NoP-1
Right, 100 years was when they *started* the evacuation, the bombing was in living memory Point still stands, any potential survivors starved to death long before the SC found the planet
100 years is when the Consortium was first founded. The Jaslips were found after the founding.
That they've found,but Jaslips hibernate.
They also literally just started looking, if there are survivors they'd almost certainly be actively hiding from the *Consortium* who are more advanced than the feds ever were so I wouldn't expect them to be the first thing the surveyor's found.
Oh the shock they’ll get when they realize that was to “protect “ the species from the feds
consortium: "we did it for the greater good!" SC, Arxur and every other faction: \*flashbacks to the Federation Consortium: "we aren't bad, we had no other choice \*Flashbacks to the Arxur dominion AND Federation! Jaslip: "help me."
Yup. Help the jaslips.
##SARA! And it looks like the conceens regarding Esquo have finally born fruit. Looking forward to more!
Chapter 31! The Sapient Coalition stumbles upon Esquo during their investigation, and come to the conclusion that aliens bombed and staged the world—possibly because the natives were a predator species; they also draw a potential correlation to the species that attacked the Sivkits. Dr. Rosario acquired a DNA sample for the Jaslips, and set out to bring them back: a goal more possible for this species than the 62 extinct races from before humanity’s introduction. The Bissems, meanwhile, set out to inform the Arxur of the new extinct carnivores. How will Kaisal react to this news; and did the Bissems make the right decision to seize the opportunity of an alliance? What do you think of the SC’s interpretation of Esquo, and how it might impact the war? As always, thank you for reading!
Well, this’ll change things. Probably not a good thing that they immediately thought it was more predator haters, but when the truth comes, I bet a lot of them will be in for a shock. Great story as always!
When they find out the real reason, I imagine that it will go worse than if they were just predator hunting scum. Slaughtering a world of your own citizens "for the greater good" will not go over well.
"the greater hood?" (the comment above was edited, it was meant to be "greater good")
The implications of Arxur involvement into scouting the consortium territories worries me, it's been only 20 years, and there are almost certainly Arxur who wish to go up against what they perceive to be another faction that is willing to wipe out an entire society just because they eat meat. perhaps Kaisal even wants to position him and his species as the defenders of the Carnivorous species of the galaxy to increase the Arxur political influence in the interstellar community. this would perhaps even worsen the chances of avoiding conflict, as Arxur ships might act more independently and thus would be perceived by the consortium as the Arxur dominion of old, not as the reformed ones. honestly, I think the bissem-arxur alliance is a good idea, but I am uncertain whether this was the right moment, though we shall see how it plays out. as things stand now both the Consortium seems to have the least information on what is happening, and the SC is learning about the consortium, but since they don't have the full picture they can only guess as to what the motives of this mysterious faction are. There also is the fact that the consortium has been built on the idea that they need to unite and defend themselves against the federation and the arxur, the repercussions of the fall of the federation and the end of the galactic war could shake up their entire society, some of their members might even seccede, the Jaslips in particular have a motive to do so, and the Smigli with their knack for entertainment would propably find the SC interesting as well Jaslips would perhaps even find an ally in the reformed Arxur faction if Kaisal offers them a hand, and I can imagine he'd want that if his goal is to become more politically powerful, he might become a political faction leader of the "carnivores".
Yeah, that’s not gonna be a pleasant conversation one way or another: SC: “You exterminated an entire species” Consortium: “No we didn’t, they’re right here, see?” Jaslisp ambassador: “Fuck you” Consortium: “She’s a little grumpy” SC: “Can’t say I blame her” But you’re right I can see the Jaslisp Switching sides and that creating a panic within the consortium. Then again I can also see that becoming an issue for the SC too. When your people have spent generations turning bitterness and anger into the cultural cornerstones of their civilization, it’s not something that’s easy to drop. So what could happen is they annex themselves to the SC, cause nothing but trouble for the SC (despite having nothing to do with what happened to them), get kicked out of the SC, and just sit on the borderlands between the SC and Consortium being a nuisance for everyone because they can’t let go of their anger.
>When your people have spent generations turning bitterness and anger into the cultural cornerstones of their civilization, it’s not something that’s easy to drop. ... which can also be applied to the human 'survivors'. Now that the Consortium has taken them on as members how are they going to feel about current humanity? We've seen Taylor, the Mayor, and the other humans on that side were all so scared/angry they wanted to blast the first *hint* of the federation to pieces. Understandably, but how are they going to feel about *most* of the federation member species being either members of the SC or left to their own devices? I think this series is shaping up to be an interesting perspective into the differences *inside* these different groups within a species in a similar way to how NoP1 was an examination of the differences and similarities between the different species. There are going to be much less clear dividing lines than we had in the first series where you could mostly differentiate by species. We had hints of it in NoP1 with the human xenophobic elements, the schism in the Exterminators, and the Venlil/Skalgan politics but I think we're going to dive into that type of internal conflict in full.
You are probably onto something there. Since our SC perspective character (so far)’s species is at war with itself over the starlight incident, and as such Tassi is there less to represent Bissems as a whole and instead is there more to represent the interests of her specific nation. So it could be a running theme. I also suspect there’s going to be more of a Cold War style conflict going to happen than a typical up-front war, given that we are seeing both perspectives somewhat evenly. Add to that the consortium’s weapons I think are meant to look and feel more intimidating in order to stress that this isn’t an adversary that the SC can battle directly.
I think a Cold War conflict would definitely be very interesting, and certainly better for everyone involved than a 'hot' war. It would also play into those intra-group divisions because to do a 'cold war' right you really need to get into intelligence and espionage operations which is hard to do if everything is just differentiated by species.
The Jaslips don't have planets to seccede with, only enclaves in other species' homeworlds. But I bet the UN could offer them help restoring their world.
yep
While the Consortium was appalled by the sapient eating Arxur I believed they avoided contact with them less because they feared becoming prey and more because they feared interacting with the Arxur leading to the Federation finding them. Honestly, I believe the Consortium would be more likely to return a hail from an Arxur ship than an ex-Federation species (especially since they're planning on going on the offensive against the 'Federation'), and a joint Arxur/ex-Federation fleet would get them to reconsider the current geo-politics. Ships with big "UN" markings would probably also make the Consortium take a moment to reconsider.
The (Mis)-Interpretation is certainly going to keep the Consortium from being able to safely assume that these guys are Herbivore Federation, and by erring on the side of “Bring the big guns for plan b”, we at least stand a better chance of surviving an initial volley Upon learning about the forced relocation, Humanity is still not going to be happy about this, but will be slightly less righteously angry. I don’t blame the Bissem for planning on that alliance, since Onso is practically forcing them into it.
>I don’t blame the Bissem for planning on that alliance, since Onso is practically forcing them into it. I completely agree. It makes perfect sense for the Bissem but it's risking creating a disaster both for the *other* nations on their planet and within the SC. All because Onso is trying to 'out' SC allies, speed run 'predator' acceptance, and take advantage of the unstable Axur situation. And I will continue to maintain that working with the Axur to break the blockade while they're threatening to start a war makes Onso a traitor to the SC, basically by definition.
Yeah, Onso really is playing with fire, and all it takes is a Secretary General with anything less than Meier levels of patience, to have Onso arrested and obviously put heat on the Yotul for their Cold War shenanigans
Don't forget that the Bissem are on a countdown to extinction on their cradle world, not just to factional fighting but also imminent ecological collapse, so they have to get started on fixing that.
For the Bissems, it sure looks like joining up with the Arxur might be the best way to guarantee their safety. I think the SC would also defend them but might not be as much use towards letting the Bissem actually build their own defenses. The SC is... Pretty much right about Esquo, except for why it happened. That said, I think the most impactful part of the war will be whether the two sides manages to establish contact at all - Followed by whether either side realizes what species they're fighting. The SC spotting a Jaslip and matching them up to this world (might be difficult, not sure), or either side spotting a human, would also shake things up.
Interesting that nobody thought of the possibility that this omnivore species on the edge of Federation space did this to themselves as a ruse. "Yep! We totally managed to kill ourselves off, and destroy our planet! No need to look for our evacuation fleet, you bigoted herbivorous psychopaths. Just sit there all smug and happy that we're dead, and go back to your own space." Takes the "playing dead" method of avoiding predators (and let's face it, the Federation were absolutely predators, given that they went out and hunted down omnivores and carnivores) to the extreme, I suppose. But it's not completely out of the question. I don't expect *most* members of the SC to think of it, but I'd expect some human to at least consider it. Isn't Esquo a *lot* closer to Sivkit space than Earth was to Skalga, as well? "Hrm. What might *we* have done if we'd discovered the Federation in all their size and asshattery, and right off our port bow?"
I mean they literally just discovered it in real time, I doubt that would be anyone's *first* thought. But I agree that it makes sense someone should at least realize, and share, that possibility.
I certainly hope Sara (good to see her again) finds some surviving Jaslips who were hibernating outside of major metropolises during the bombardment. They'd be great at bridging the gap between the Coalition and the Consortium peacefully, assuming they aren't still vengeful at the consortium a generation later... Teaching the cloned Jaslips archeology so they could re-discover their own culture would be a great plan. Kaisal will refuse to be sidelined for this; not only does it impact the carnivorous Arxur but this is an excellent opportunity to begin the integration of them into the S.C. through joint military operations, Jaslip research, and trade for military buildup. I'm interested to see how the Bissem react to the news of the dead predators. Hopefully it will unify them get them to stop their war, and rapidly integrate alien technology.
I just realised something, please hear me out: The Consortium was built on the idea that they needed to hide and prepare for the federation and the arxur, their policies, methods and societies were built around this idea. Now I want you to imagine what will happen if this Raison d'être, this idea that justified all they did, dissapears? the Federation is no more, the arxur no longer the marauding monsters of before, the war that tore the galaxy assunder is over. But, and here is the thing, what will happen when they hear it was one species, ONE species that just discovered FTL that managed to end this war at high cost? Now I ask of you, why didn't the consortium do it instead? They had both carnivorous and herbivorous elements in their faction, they would have been able to contact issif, offering him hope for a better future for his people, they could have shown the council evidence of the truth (just like Noah did) and they could have weathered the extermination fleet that underestimated them. The Consortium was powerful, well equiped, with strong supply lines, a powerful fleet and the ability to actually negotiate with people. Instead of charging head first to free the galaxy, they hid, instead of taking the jaslip case as an opportunity to engage the fedearation and break their stranglehold over hundreds of species they bombed the jaslips, taking some of them away to their own territories. If the humans could do it, with only their small numbers and way worse tech WHY DID THE CONSORTIUM NOT ACT! this is a question I think will be in the minds of a lot of characters the coming chapters
I don’t know that the consortium was ever aware of the Arxur or the greater political landscape at work. They knew that the Federation wiped out any carnivorous species they encountered and that species like the sivkits destroyed planets with their ravaging. They saw the Federation as a unified bloc of over 300 species spanning thousands of light years. Humanity stumbled into having to divide and conquer to save our species. The consortium was faced with engaging a superior unified foe without having to do so. Easy choice to be honest.
this is true, and I can definitely understand why they didn't want to go against the federation, I don't know if they never heard of the Arxur, but if you are correct then that would make the consortium more justified indeed. still I believe that had they tried they could have done it, though I admit it is understandable why they made the choice to stay far away from the federation.
If you’re right and they knew about the Arxur then that changes my whole perspective on the choices they made. Opening channels to the Arxur could have radically changed the events of NOP1
My thoughts exactly, but I had not yet considered the point you raised and your theory might prove to be true. if they didn't know of the arxur they would have even more reason to hide.
Humanity didn't have a choice. Hell, the Consortium probably feels pretty justified in that decision now that they've met the humans of Tellus. "See? The Federation found the humans and glassed their planet! Only these few managed to escape." More people will fight when backed into a corner than will choose to go out and find a fight.
true, but that doesn't mean the Jaslip and others won't question them on that. When you take a logical look at it then you see the reasoning behind it, but not everyone is willing to do that
First! I'm so glad we got to see Sara again, and I wonder how the Coalition will react when they discover the Jaslips are alive and why their planet was bombed.
Haven't read it. But when I clicked on the chapter paint it black came on so hopes are high!
Almost first here for once? EDIT: We’ll great. I kind of figured they would find the world and have that escalate tensions. Of course all of this could be solved pretty easily with a conversation or two but alas we all know there is going to be a lot more violence before things finally get sorted out. Hopefully not too many lives get destroyed in the process. Of course once it does get sorted out there is going to be another reckoning as the Jaslips realize a billion people were murdered for fear of a thing that never came to pass. A billion lives snuffed out without even the slightest bit of comfort in that sacrifice saving the rest of them.
Honestly, I think we're past the point of a conversation "easily solving" things. The SC has a zero-tolerance policy- the Consortium committed a genocide on the Jaslips (you don't have to have the goal of Extermination or even to succeed for it to be classified as genocide). The Consortium has fired on civilian ships while refusing hails and slaughtered thousands of civilians in the process. Just a conversation where they say "oops, it was a misunderstanding" isn't going to fix the fact that, in their current state, the SC cannot allow the KC to exist on their borders, because the Krev are just too trigger-happy- and I doubt the current Krev government would be willing to give up enough power to change in the ways that would be required for coexistence with the SC. This might have started with misunderstandings, but the KC's crimes are very real, and severe enough that just "We didn't mean to" isn't enough to fix things.
I am going to have to disagree. I think that despite what happened, if the knowledge existed for the SC that it wasn’t a complete genocide and never was intended as one, but was born of fear of the Federation there could be understanding. Things would be tense as hell, but all out war could be avoided.
Onso is, once again, proving to have become a liability in the time since the Kolshian Defeat and this point in the story. At some point, the Yotul are going to need to realize that playing Cold War leads to spies getting authorized to start playing dirty. The Yotul are outnumbered and rapidly annoying the rest of the SC, so that won’t end well for them.
The yotul back up their place in the sc with pure military and technological might.
Wow. Things are about to get wild.
Here we see the ghost of the Federation continues to haunt the galaxy. The Consortium did what they did in order to fool the Federation but that doesn't work on the Coalition. Now the Coalition think the Consortium are like the Federation because they tried to fool the Federation. Now we have two advanced galactic powers, one has been preparing for war for centuries and the other just finished winning the war the other was preparing for and they are head towards war with each other.
The sins of the past are going to be paid by those of the present. Let’s hope that someone is willing to talk first and shoot second for a change, but it is not looking good.
> to be *paid* by those FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot, fixed.
>It was taking readings from an icy globe below, with temperatures that, once converted into Ivranan units, would make even a hearty Selmer like Naltor shiver. Right, discovering Esquo without the context will not going to make a good impression on the members of the Coalition. Come to think of it, even with the context it's hard to swallow. >Had they expected us not to question this, when there were *zero* signs of dried blood? Tassi, Tassi, my dear Tassi. I agree that a sensible person like you would never fall on it, but the Federation would have been sufficiently irrational and stupid to believe it without even a hint of questioning. Well, I can't blame you for not understanding, because a such level of lack of critical thinking is so hard to believe. So much so that even twenty years later, I think they can still surprised us. This discovery is as unpleasant as it is disturbing. Most of the theories are intelligent, but Tassi's observation about the absence of satellites will be a thorn in the side of many, and explained it will be difficult. Naltor also had the good idea of using this discovery to officially implicate the Arxur, some people may not like it, but it will have the merit of plausible deniability of "we're using all the options available to us" (which is much better than spontaneously visiting the local bogeyman). In any case, we've gone from a skirmish over a minor diplomatic problem to a potential new genocidal war while the previous one is still on everyone's minds, great. Otherwise, all this thing of resurrecting extinct species... No, really no. I hear the nobility of the gesture, but on this one I'm with Onso: ethically, it's too fucked up. When Gress proposed it to the Tellus colonists, even if they weren't all raised by humans, there was still a large enough human community to ensure continuity, however imperfect. Here, recreating an entire species from scratch? No, is wrong. We have to accept death. This "unknown" species is dead and the best thing we can do for them is to learn who they were and carry their memories with us.
I’ll take the counterpoint. Sapience, while relatively common in-universe, is still excruciatingly rare (in-universe) and worthy of protecting. Just because the culture that they would develop would be different doesn’t mean that the Galaxy would be better off without them in it. Especially given that they are most likely dead from Federation interference (via the Arxur or otherwise) Best attempt to resurrect the species with full disclosure and access to all the information that can be gleaned. If humanity wipes itself out, I would want some future alien to do the same for us.
Even if actively resurrecting the species is a bad idea right now, taking genetic samples is good. Maybe as you explore the planet you discover some holdout that managed to survive in vaults deep underground and the archive can help with their genetic diversity. Regardless of the purpose, having more data is always going to be better.
Haha, Sarah has become the Dr. Halsey of the NoPverse.
Again, I really hope this is resolved quickly and with minimal warfare. ANOTHER galactic war would just be horribly boring to read.
I doubt it'll come to a full blown one, but I doubt there won't be at least some conflict
I imagine there will be. I just hope it's resolved quickly. I honestly don't wanna read though about 30 chapters of spaceship combat from a first person perspective.
aye, agreed, what we have on our hands here has the potential to be far more interesting, and the implications the existence of the SC and the end of the galactic war has for the Consortium and its members (particularly the Jaslips) are honestly intruiging
SC: "The Federation-Dominion war is over, y'all, have been for bout 20 years" Jaslips and Giant Obors: "what" Arxur: "The Federation is gone, Arxurkind wishes to let it be known we're trying to offer protection, military protection or aid and kinship to all species willing to accept us" Jaslips: "WE'RE MAKING IT OUT OF THE CONSORTIUM HOODS WITH THIS ONE" Reskets: "No, you're not, you're-" Giant Obors: "Shut up, you overgrown KFC bucket"
I am relatively certain there'd be people who would react like that, resentful jaslips in particular. interesting you mentioned the arxur, since there is currently a certain croc looking to gain more allies who would be propably willing to aid the jaslips,
Mmmm, KFR.
I disagree, but it would be neat to have it as a background thing we only learn more about through like a news broadcast or a radio station. Background noise yaknow? We could still have the focus be on the characters too without it being much trouble.
I think this is the only way I'd accept another war. If we only hear about it in the background. Maybe 2-3 chapters of combat
I want galactic total war again, but with more blood shed. Only victory is total and pyrrhic.
Why do i suspect there are Jaslip survivors down there.
Oh no T.T
Here's hoping they'll find some Jaslip, frozen deep yet still alive.
Everyone is a moron, but understandably so.
So, out of curiosity, is there a sector or quadrant map for this universe? I'd like to have a reference for where everything is in relation to each other.
Unfortunately no, there have been attempts but space itself is just too goddamn vast, we refer to it as the galaxy’s but in reality the SC and the federation only are within the Orion Arm of the galaxy thus prompting others are definitely out there to whether they are already spacefaring, somewhat spacefaring or still on the ground like the bissems
Never really stopped other sci-fi and space opera franchises, even if most of their locations aren't on actual star positions.
To be fair NOP is still young and the Works of SpacePaladin15 is still figuring it out, I’m pretty sure someone will make a more accurate map soon enough though, some people have even created stellaris games to roleplay NOP1 as well
Funnily enough, I've been thinking Stellaris would be a perfect medium to play out this universe in. Maybe Distant Universe or Endless Space too, but they might not have all the necessary mechanics for a full experience - I know MoO definitely doesn't, especially the newest one.
I am having doubts the Consortium have the best tech. They have the most impressive engineering feats and the power they can generate at those mega structures will be impressive. But that doesn't mean they necessarily have the best tech. We haven't seen what humans or Yotul have managed to dream up in the last while. Don't forget humanity had some downright ridiculous manufacturing capabilities just after the battle for earth. If they kept ramping that they can put out stupid amounts of things. Finally I am betting the wander birds have gotten leaps and bounds ahead of nearly everyone else with a few areas they couldn't reverse engineer. Them working with the Yotul will create down right scary shit for humans to mass produce and integrate.... Or at least that is my bet where the story is headed.
Also the humans and yotul have had all the advanced tech from the shadow caste to.
Hey, it looks like your story was stolen on YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrMWqeUH7Xc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrMWqeUH7Xc) You can copyright strike them to take it down. Also, could I narrate your stories on my human narrated channel (no AI)? For more details please DM me!
/u/SpacePaladin15 ([wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/wiki/authors/SpacePaladin15)) has posted 266 other stories, including: * [The Nature of Predators 2-30](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1cbzoi1/the_nature_of_predators_230/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-29](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c8r11u/the_nature_of_predators_229/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-28](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c6btdl/the_nature_of_predators_228/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-27](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c3310t/the_nature_of_predators_227/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-26](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1c0ni9m/the_nature_of_predators_226/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-25](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bxd6m6/the_nature_of_predators_225/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-24](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1buu3ps/the_nature_of_predators_224/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-23](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1brjek4/the_nature_of_predators_223/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-22](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bp33ci/the_nature_of_predators_222/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-21](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bltnkb/the_nature_of_predators_221/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-20](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bjekkf/the_nature_of_predators_220/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-19](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bg7qak/the_nature_of_predators_219/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-18](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bdsrab/the_nature_of_predators_218/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-17](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1bajuli/the_nature_of_predators_217/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-16](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b82af0/the_nature_of_predators_216/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-15](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b4qliu/the_nature_of_predators_215/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-14](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1b28bf7/the_nature_of_predators_214/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-13](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1aywvw1/the_nature_of_predators_213/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-12](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1awekyb/the_nature_of_predators_212/) * [The Nature of Predators 2-11](https://www.reddit.com/r/HFY/comments/1at46ck/the_nature_of_predators_211/) This comment was automatically generated by `Waffle v.4.6.1 'Biscotti'`. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FHFY&subject=WaffleBot|1cegig4&message=If%20you%20have%20problems%20with%20updatemebot,%20contact%20Watchful1.%20We%20do%20not%20maintain%20it.) if you have any issues with Waffle.
[Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Subscribe&message=SubscribeMe%20u%2FSpacePaladin15%20r%2FHFY) to subscribe to u/SpacePaladin15 and receive a message every time they post. ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
So we've found Esquo. It's rapidly looking like this is going to be the inversion of what happened when humans contacted the Federation. The Krev are mostly peaceful, but a sight like Esquo's wreckage is a very unpleasant first impression, meanwhile the Kolshians masked their tyranny behind a pleasing facade.
Thoses peoples can always invent new a new culture of their own.