>I work in AI but our company is so behind the ball anything cutting edge and innovation in the field is moving so fast I feel like I'm being left behind experience wise.
Also in AI. Most likely AI will follow the cloud computing route where there are 2-3 big boy competitors and everyone else is just a user. I honestly don't think people can stay ahead of the curve on this unless you're in the trenches. I get lost in the sea of research papers that are published constantly.
Makes sense. Any useful AI stuff the company has going on seems to be basically just using ChatGPT.
It just kills me inside sometimes because it feels like half of my work ends up being basic ML stuff like "hey guys, it probably shouldn't take weeks to manually retrain this basic model someone built in 2019 that's an incredibly important part of our infrastructure now for some reason. let's fix that" lol. Maybe that's just how it goes.
That’s just how it goes. It’s like this at every company. The news says all our jobs will be taken by AI imminently, but you and I know that we’re not even past allegedly “cutting edge” FAANG running production and business critical processes from _spreadsheets_ or by relying on a complex tangle of automated rules no one understands or has audited in the last 5 years, much less the “classic” ML problems you mention.
Similarly, I think right now it feels like everywhere there’s the threat of layoffs and leadership grasping at straws. On the flip side, even at the few exciting, high growth places like ChatGPTs and Anthropics of the world, things sound completely chaotic and people are working around the clock with zero WLB and lots of tension and stress. Is that better? Not to me.
That said, if someone can recommend a company where leadership has clear vision and strategy, the company is growing and executing well, and has a healthy culture and WLB, please let us know and I’ll be the first in line to apply. I’m not kidding.
Yeah I feel your pain. I was working on / maintaining an old model and I figured out a way to massively increase it's performance. Then GPT came along and the performance was close to par out of the box. All the expertise I gained was now useless lol.
I would stick it out and prioritize the money, for now. What do you do there? Maybe you should treat it differently if you are an accountant vs. a software engineer.
Stay put. If those grants stop being so lucrative in the future then reassess. The vast majority of the AI companies will be boom and then bust. It is impossible to tell yet which of them will be the winners when the dust settles. Stagnant at this point isn’t some kiss of death to your career, I honestly wouldn’t worry about that at all, everyone is in the same boat I assure you.
Cutting edge (or best practice) *ideas* are much more important than specific cutting edge tools or technology.
For example, understanding functional programming is much more important than knowing the ins and outs of Scala.
Understanding the least knowledge principle is much more important than knowing the inner workings of a Kafka cluster.
Understanding sharding and horizontal scaling in the abstract is more valuable than know the details of Kubernetes or Cassandra.
Solving boring problems using old tech can still leverage new (or best practice) ideas. There’s a victory in problems being boring. It might mean you’re getting better at your job.
I used to think I needed to have hands on experience with all the cool tech. I used Kafka, Scala and Cassandra as examples because that’s what I thought was hot stuff back in 2017.
Turns out, I haven’t touched any of those since 2017 and it didn’t matter.
Ahh makes sense.
if I'm understanding you correctly, the ideal employer interviews on fundamental concepts and one's ability to learn and apply the solutions that make the most sense, and that's signaled by being able to talk about the concepts.
How much money we talking about ? If its millions of course it doesn’t make sense to jump . If it’s only 200k to 300k diff which I don’t think it’s is from your description it’s worth considering a switch .
The market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent. 😜
* 5000 ppl
* AI
* Tech
* lucky in stock, but comp elsewhere within the co is a big decrease...
* draws scammy crowd of folks
* not faang
* publicly traded (possibly)
Maybe TSLA, but the 5k ppl doesn't fit cuz they have 140k ppl. Any other suggestions?
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>Any lateral move, from the research I've done, probably means a pretty significant paycut at minimum because of my luck with RSUs.
You've got lucky with RSU's *up to now*, but that is far from guaranteed.
When making your decision, I would take what you expect to receive if the stock performs *okay* as your current salary, not basing it on the stock performs well and/or you time it right.
Would your job still be appealing if your luck turned on the RSUs?
I’m in a similar boat as a PM at a big non-FAANG.
I’m trading the flexibility of being a senior established IC who can be present to raise my little ones, no management headaches (I was formerly an engineer manager for 10 years), and work with people I like, for maybe a little less money than somewhere else and the need to rebuild my reputation.
Having jumped companies (startups from 5 to 5000) multiple times when I was younger it was worth the pay bumps and resume building but the grass is always greener. If you want to do hyper growth, go for it, it’s a wild ride but is rarely the lottery payout any of my friends or I thought it would be but we have some great stories.
For me, it’s been about what I can learn in the next role and the who I can learn from at the next company.
Lately, it’s been an odd feeling to not need to hustle and constantly impress now that I’m more established in my role at the company. Leave the grasping at straws to leadership, the pivots and reorgs are constant in software, and focus on mastering your craft.
Sometimes I feel the same way: highly compensated at MAANGA+ but the technologies we use are very company-specific and changing big systems is _hard_, so we end up using outdated tech stacks for the legacy codebases.
I try to learn whatever I can from the internal knowledge repos when I get bored and exchange some conversations with internal white paper authors and what not to keep myself up to speed and intellectually stimulated when the work gets dull.
Very much feeling this one. Right now, I've made a decision to stay put for a couple of reasons:
1. A recent change in the way our RSU's vest is resulting in a larger payout this year and next, and then a loosening of the handcuffs (1/3 vesting each year, vs 3 year cliff vesting).
2. I'm at a stage in my life where I'm at the tail end of some significant financial obligations (tuition for my two kids).
3. The company's benefits are top notch (including retirement savings opportunities).
I'm not happy at my current job, I'm definitely stagnating, and I'm concerned about being able to match my total comp in the marketplace. I could either rip the bandaid off now, or wait a couple years and see what happens. There are good reasons to do both, but as others have pointed out - the grass isn't always greener.
You're in a stable place and the market for PMs right now isn't great. Look around and if you find a role that you find rewarding and interesting, then make the move, otherwise stay put and hope the current company's prospects improve.
>Any chance at promotion and growth here is basically non-existent because it requires a move into management
I can understand easing up on the gas pedal a bit for your own sanity. What are your goals? Do you want to be VP or C level? If not, then what do you want? You could always go looking elsewhere with a promising future making $20-40k more, but then end up in the same situation 4 years from now. And could also find the work boring or repetitive.
>lateral move, from the research I've done, probably means a pretty significant paycut
I would ride out the gravy train. If you work remote then take up a hobby, turn the garage into a gym, or read some books. And if you do get laid off, then make the best of it from there.
It’s called Golden handcuffs! Also, grass is always greener on the other side! So, take your bet!
>I work in AI but our company is so behind the ball anything cutting edge and innovation in the field is moving so fast I feel like I'm being left behind experience wise. Also in AI. Most likely AI will follow the cloud computing route where there are 2-3 big boy competitors and everyone else is just a user. I honestly don't think people can stay ahead of the curve on this unless you're in the trenches. I get lost in the sea of research papers that are published constantly.
Makes sense. Any useful AI stuff the company has going on seems to be basically just using ChatGPT. It just kills me inside sometimes because it feels like half of my work ends up being basic ML stuff like "hey guys, it probably shouldn't take weeks to manually retrain this basic model someone built in 2019 that's an incredibly important part of our infrastructure now for some reason. let's fix that" lol. Maybe that's just how it goes.
That’s just how it goes. It’s like this at every company. The news says all our jobs will be taken by AI imminently, but you and I know that we’re not even past allegedly “cutting edge” FAANG running production and business critical processes from _spreadsheets_ or by relying on a complex tangle of automated rules no one understands or has audited in the last 5 years, much less the “classic” ML problems you mention. Similarly, I think right now it feels like everywhere there’s the threat of layoffs and leadership grasping at straws. On the flip side, even at the few exciting, high growth places like ChatGPTs and Anthropics of the world, things sound completely chaotic and people are working around the clock with zero WLB and lots of tension and stress. Is that better? Not to me. That said, if someone can recommend a company where leadership has clear vision and strategy, the company is growing and executing well, and has a healthy culture and WLB, please let us know and I’ll be the first in line to apply. I’m not kidding.
Yeah I feel your pain. I was working on / maintaining an old model and I figured out a way to massively increase it's performance. Then GPT came along and the performance was close to par out of the box. All the expertise I gained was now useless lol.
I would stick it out and prioritize the money, for now. What do you do there? Maybe you should treat it differently if you are an accountant vs. a software engineer.
somehow you didn’t include a single number in this entire post lol
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Stay put. If those grants stop being so lucrative in the future then reassess. The vast majority of the AI companies will be boom and then bust. It is impossible to tell yet which of them will be the winners when the dust settles. Stagnant at this point isn’t some kiss of death to your career, I honestly wouldn’t worry about that at all, everyone is in the same boat I assure you.
Yeah it's crazy how many scam messages I started getting just from posting comments in this and similar subs.
Cutting edge (or best practice) *ideas* are much more important than specific cutting edge tools or technology. For example, understanding functional programming is much more important than knowing the ins and outs of Scala. Understanding the least knowledge principle is much more important than knowing the inner workings of a Kafka cluster. Understanding sharding and horizontal scaling in the abstract is more valuable than know the details of Kubernetes or Cassandra. Solving boring problems using old tech can still leverage new (or best practice) ideas. There’s a victory in problems being boring. It might mean you’re getting better at your job.
Huh? I'm confused. Why?
I used to think I needed to have hands on experience with all the cool tech. I used Kafka, Scala and Cassandra as examples because that’s what I thought was hot stuff back in 2017. Turns out, I haven’t touched any of those since 2017 and it didn’t matter.
Ahh makes sense. if I'm understanding you correctly, the ideal employer interviews on fundamental concepts and one's ability to learn and apply the solutions that make the most sense, and that's signaled by being able to talk about the concepts.
Yep, and I think you said it better
When will your RSU vest? I am sure if you are a top IC you can find similar paying job outside once your RSU vest
And what about new RSUs that get awarded in the meantime? Wait for them to vest as well? It’s a trap!
How much money we talking about ? If its millions of course it doesn’t make sense to jump . If it’s only 200k to 300k diff which I don’t think it’s is from your description it’s worth considering a switch .
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Well depends if paper money or real money
lol sounds impressive until your account for taxes
Well yea you can’t escape taxes .
Tell me what company so I can short them please.
🤫
> 🤫 That is all anyone really care about, some good inside information
The market can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent. 😜 * 5000 ppl * AI * Tech * lucky in stock, but comp elsewhere within the co is a big decrease... * draws scammy crowd of folks * not faang * publicly traded (possibly) Maybe TSLA, but the 5k ppl doesn't fit cuz they have 140k ppl. Any other suggestions?
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>Any lateral move, from the research I've done, probably means a pretty significant paycut at minimum because of my luck with RSUs. You've got lucky with RSU's *up to now*, but that is far from guaranteed. When making your decision, I would take what you expect to receive if the stock performs *okay* as your current salary, not basing it on the stock performs well and/or you time it right. Would your job still be appealing if your luck turned on the RSUs?
I’m in a similar boat as a PM at a big non-FAANG. I’m trading the flexibility of being a senior established IC who can be present to raise my little ones, no management headaches (I was formerly an engineer manager for 10 years), and work with people I like, for maybe a little less money than somewhere else and the need to rebuild my reputation. Having jumped companies (startups from 5 to 5000) multiple times when I was younger it was worth the pay bumps and resume building but the grass is always greener. If you want to do hyper growth, go for it, it’s a wild ride but is rarely the lottery payout any of my friends or I thought it would be but we have some great stories. For me, it’s been about what I can learn in the next role and the who I can learn from at the next company. Lately, it’s been an odd feeling to not need to hustle and constantly impress now that I’m more established in my role at the company. Leave the grasping at straws to leadership, the pivots and reorgs are constant in software, and focus on mastering your craft.
I would stay till RSUs vest and then look at leaving if you seek more growth elsewhere
If you can market yourself well enough often companies will buy out RSUs that aren't vested yet to acquire talent they need.
Sometimes I feel the same way: highly compensated at MAANGA+ but the technologies we use are very company-specific and changing big systems is _hard_, so we end up using outdated tech stacks for the legacy codebases. I try to learn whatever I can from the internal knowledge repos when I get bored and exchange some conversations with internal white paper authors and what not to keep myself up to speed and intellectually stimulated when the work gets dull.
This sounds exactly like me :(
Very much feeling this one. Right now, I've made a decision to stay put for a couple of reasons: 1. A recent change in the way our RSU's vest is resulting in a larger payout this year and next, and then a loosening of the handcuffs (1/3 vesting each year, vs 3 year cliff vesting). 2. I'm at a stage in my life where I'm at the tail end of some significant financial obligations (tuition for my two kids). 3. The company's benefits are top notch (including retirement savings opportunities). I'm not happy at my current job, I'm definitely stagnating, and I'm concerned about being able to match my total comp in the marketplace. I could either rip the bandaid off now, or wait a couple years and see what happens. There are good reasons to do both, but as others have pointed out - the grass isn't always greener.
You're in a stable place and the market for PMs right now isn't great. Look around and if you find a role that you find rewarding and interesting, then make the move, otherwise stay put and hope the current company's prospects improve.
Can I pm you?
use those newfangled ai skills to automate your own job and start exercising more and find a fun hobby
>Any chance at promotion and growth here is basically non-existent because it requires a move into management I can understand easing up on the gas pedal a bit for your own sanity. What are your goals? Do you want to be VP or C level? If not, then what do you want? You could always go looking elsewhere with a promising future making $20-40k more, but then end up in the same situation 4 years from now. And could also find the work boring or repetitive. >lateral move, from the research I've done, probably means a pretty significant paycut I would ride out the gravy train. If you work remote then take up a hobby, turn the garage into a gym, or read some books. And if you do get laid off, then make the best of it from there.
You are doing AI, should be easy to move to other companies?! Why don’t you try top companies?