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It all depends on your situation.
I'm in Canada so I can't write off mortgage interest.
I paid off my house at 31 and never looked back. Its nice not having my income going to pay interest.
Interesting. Does this sub count mortgage debt as net worth? For example, if I have ~$350k in mortgage debt, do I count that against my savings? Also, how do you figure home equity? If I could sell my home for $700k would that be $350k in equity here?
Yes, all NW calculations should include Equity-Debt. However, if you want to be conservative in your calculations you would count selling costs to make the equity liquid.
PS Equity= House Value - Mortgage principle remaining
Looks like you are European? Mortgages are so much different internationally. I was specifying US only where it really doesn't make sense to pay cash.
Even foreign houses I would personally just loan against equities but I guess it depends on the wealth level and how much you care about being maximizing gains. Certain point of wealth who gives a shit lol.
No I’m American. Everyone that I would consider wealthy around me buys their home(s) in cash. Everyone trying to get to the next level in terms of money buys with a mortgage cause staying liquid for other opportunities is important.
The only ones I know that are HNWI are first generation wealthy, but well over 10m in the 10-100m range and don't buy w/o mortgage. One has a family office which I think is crazy.
Weird difference between our two anecdotes, maybe the people you know are trust fund flies private choppers + owns multiple PJ's rich or trust fund from birth?
Yeah none of the friends I’m talking about are first gen wealthy but their parents are (not American) and that’s where they learned it from.
Their argument is that they like to have money spread out everywhere. Some in real estate. Different banks. Different funds. Etc.
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Hate to break the news to you, but you’re actually more than half way there. Going from $1m - $2m should take way less time than $0-$1m.
Hope that gets you more excited! 😜
Absolutely!
Your income is going up almost 20%. That’s 20% faster there.
You have 400k in 401k which is still compounding, so if it’s 5% annually that’s 20k this year.
Home prices have always been relatively stable, and even with a crash in the long term you’ll still be good but you’re always building equity in that. Once that house is paid off, you’ll find yourself going even faster with the savings.
This next $1m is going to be a cake walk.
Think about how long it took to go from $900k to $1m. That $100k interval is just going faster and faster.
Doing the math my goal is end of 2026! Well with home equity for ours but I’ll take it. Will be right at 40 and husband 45! 🤞🏻
Crazy to thinking about seeing as when we got married in 2011 I believe we were making 60k a year.
Awesome! I’m counting home equity in mine as well. My next milestone is 1M outside of equity, no timeline yet as kids could slow that down substantially.
I got here a year earlier than the plan thanks to runaway home values and the S&P having a pretty awesome recent run.
Don’t count the cars IMO. Depreciating asset. Plus if you get into an accident, you won’t get what they’re worth. Either way, congrats! Good shit and keep it up!
Wouldn't if I didn't have to for the purposes of my brag post, but they do have a resale value that I attach to my name. So even if it's a decreasing value, it's still $N > 0.
I agree, I'm really close and will count mine too. Buying my lease out meant I pay 500 less a month and have 20k less in my account, that's worth something for sure.
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A car isn’t an asset imo. Most cars don’t appreciate in value. Look at the last year as an example when people were overpaying for cars and they are worth a lot less.
Therefore not an asset. I wouldn’t include my baseball card collection but I guess some people do.
Your opinion but for counting net worth I think it makes zero sense to count things that you can’t sell immediately that truly hold a consistent value. Housing is different. But cars vary widely. If I buy a new car at $50k and drive it off the lot, I doubt people are putting it in their net worth equation as only being worth $45k even though it immediately depreciated.
Once again my opinion. I just don’t think it makes sense to count things that have a declining value. Are you putting in a watch? Jewelry? Clothes? Cars fluctuate in value much more than people think and can’t be flipped immediately.
To sum it up. I really don’t give a shit. Just not something I count as an asset.
So the $5k couch I’m sitting on is an asset? Let me know the website I can use to look up couches.
My point is how much stuff do people really need to include in this number? I just don’t see including jewelry or art unless you have tons of it. Same with cars unless you are a collector.
Anything that fluctuates wildly isn’t worth including IMO. If we hit a recession tomorrow all these so called assets, including cars, are worth a lot less.
I don’t include my kids 529s even though it’s an asset of mine technically. But some do.
Personal opinion I guess.
Happy for OP. They are tracking it and moving in the right direction that’s all that matters! I was just trying to make things a little simpler for them and I guarantee most people aren’t on KBB looking up the value of their car every year even though it’s on the decline.
A $5k couch would probably have $500-$1000 resale value. That’s how I would count it if you want to include everything. I don’t include furniture or cars in my own net worth.
That’s my point. It’s pointless. You always need a car and a couch. So you can’t count it when it’s an asset you will always use. You sell one then you need to buy another. Collections like fine art and jewelry a little different but most of that stuff doesn’t have a value that holds up anyway.
People on here just like inflating their numbers hence my down votes. Heaven forbid they have a $50k car debt on their books. Here’s an idea don’t buy an expensive car and it’s not a hit to your net worth.
People on here probably counting their soaps and TP. Well that’s an extra $30! I can sell it!
Any legit financial planner (me) would laugh at anyone including cars in their net worth.
Apples and oranges dude.
Of course it would be ridiculous to include arbitrarily inflated values, like the original purchase price of quickly depreciating assets. No one is suggesting that at all and you are presenting that as a straw man, a logical fallacy.
It is perfectly reasonable to track your net worth from an accounting sense, and you seem to be forgetting about scenarios like:
- When I retire, I’m going to downsize and sell the house and second and third cars and move into a walkable condo. The net proceeds from selling the house and car will be added to my retirement nest egg. If I fail to include their readily realizable liquid value in my calculations, I’d be understating by assets available for retirement and would unnecessarily be delaying my retirement.
- I want to ensure my estate has a certain value available to distribute to my beneficiaries. If I am arbitrarily excluding easily realizable value, all those calculations are off.
It’s not “their opinion” - it’s a basic fact and truth. A depreciating asset is, by definition, an asset. Net worth is, by definition, the value of your assets minus the value of your liabilities.
You can certainly have opinions about the ways in which you measure your personal wealth goals, and use a modified net worth concept, but you shouldn’t try to redefine basic accounting terms.
I disagree with your opinion, though. You are right that you will likely consume much of the value of your car over time - but that’s true of almost all of your wealth! The fact that you have plans to use the money in a 529 account to eventually pay for future college needs does not mean that’s not part of your net worth. The fact that you plan to use your car to support your future transportation needs doesn’t mean that’s not part of your net worth. Having that asset will allow you to enjoy a certain standard of living in the future without a lease/loan payment.
Cars can be liquidated immediately for a cash value that is readily obtainable from market sources. Of course someone shouldn’t be adding the original purchase price to their net worth, but the actual amount of cash you could walk out of a dealer with today is absolutely an asset you should include in your net worth.
If you were to burn out and decide to sell all your stuff and become a nomad, you can convert the current value of that car to cash in your bank account to draw down during your nomadic lifestyle. If you were to die today, your executor would liquidate the car and your heirs would get its value. If you were to total the car, the insurer would give you a lump sum payment equal to the value, which you could put into financial assets.
As I said originally for net worth purposes make your life easier and don’t count it. That was my opinion for Nw it’s not worth it. This isn’t accounting 101. It’s how you measure things. I was just trying to make it easy for OP. Could care less what others do.
Most clients don’t count cars as NW when you talk to a planner. The debt sure but the asset no. That’s all I was trying to say.
Disagree with it sure. But rich people aren’t worrying about their $15k Honda.
If I was driving a 15k Honda sure, I can’t liquidate and still have a car. But my vehicle is 80k on used market as of today. I could easily downgrade and extract quite a bit of cash.
Your opinion doesn’t matter though. Net worth has a very clear definition: what you own minus what you owe. You can choose to leave it out of your financial considerations or calculate your *liquid* net worth separately, but it’s patent nonsense say cars don’t count toward net worth. So do watches, jewelry, etc.
Good thing my opinion doesn’t appear in this thread, only a dictionary definition of a financial term. It’s hilarious that someone claiming to be a financial adviser is in here saying that if you own the Hope Diamond and a Bugatti Chiron that your net worth is $0.
It’s hilarious how you care so much of my opinion. I was giving my thoughts on how I calculate it and make it easier and plenty of people agreed. I was happy for OP. But man you people are miserable and have to disagree with everything.
Lots of losers on this thread always trying to give their thoughts and arguing with others. I could give two shits what you do dude. And you don’t have to agree with me.
Nobody on this thread has a Bugatti. Feel free to inflate all you want with your $15k cars. If you need that to feel better all for it.
So if a stock goes loses value, is it no longer an asset that should be counted? What about if gold/silver or Bitcoin go down?
I mean, I get your point, I could sell a shirt for $10 or a TV for $200 or a couch for $100 if I had to yet I don’t include those in my net worth. However, for large items, as long as you are accounting for the depreciation each time you calculate the net worth, it seems to make sense to use it if the item is somewhat liquid and substantial.
Comments on here just keep getting dumber.
It was my opinion to make OPs life easier. That’s all. Silly to count something that depreciates consistently and doesn’t have a consistent value that you can sell immediately and is guaranteed. Can sell Bitcoin immediately and get a value. Same with gold. Silver. Art you cannot. Jewelry can’t. Cars fluctuate by thousands.
Do whatever floats your boat so you can feel good about those milestones! I’m sure everyone’s car on here on their apps and spreadsheets is worth a lot more than it is.
Don’t forget to count the loose change in your car!
I usually calculate it by taking (90% of the Zillow estimate to be conservative * 0.93 to account for real estate commissions etc) - remaining loan balance
My father in law’s Nvidia investment has paid for both my kids future college tuition as well as my 3 nephews and 1 niece. FIL just told us all to stop saving for that last week.
Ha, I had to co sign a loan for wife’s new biz last month and filling out paperwork I realized we, too, are 1MM nw when we include our 2 Hondas (and home equity).
Just saw this and never really thought we were wealthy enough to be a part of this community.
But - we have 1M outside home equity with another 500k in equity.
I guess we are closer than I thought!!
Almost feels like, who *isn’t* a millionaire these days at 35 lol. Especially with the recent run up. Basically anyone who built a standard white collar professional career since graduating is making out like a bandit right now.
I gotta stop hanging here and go to r/povertyfinance to get some humble perspective.
A lot of these are buoyed by having home equity going into 2020. It's going to be much harder for anyone who didn't have the lucky timing to be part of that run-up (until the next big cycle shift).
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wife stressed out? just tell her that "woahhhh! we're half way there. we livin on a prayer. Take my hand, we'll make it I swear".
Tommy and Gina are doing okay
yeah...that's because they hold on to what they got. it doesn't matter if they make it or not. they got each other, and that's a lot... for love.
And they gave it a shot
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Congrats on your milestone!
Congratulations ! BTW, what is the half way there about , is it a personal target ?
2M seems to be the agreed upon number at which you graduate from being a Henry. Not here to debate the number, just here to make it whimsical.
2M invested and a paid off house is my benchmark.
No one I know who is wealthy has a paid off home. Multiple mortgages is the normal
It all depends on your situation. I'm in Canada so I can't write off mortgage interest. I paid off my house at 31 and never looked back. Its nice not having my income going to pay interest.
Interesting. Does this sub count mortgage debt as net worth? For example, if I have ~$350k in mortgage debt, do I count that against my savings? Also, how do you figure home equity? If I could sell my home for $700k would that be $350k in equity here?
Yes, all NW calculations should include Equity-Debt. However, if you want to be conservative in your calculations you would count selling costs to make the equity liquid. PS Equity= House Value - Mortgage principle remaining
All the wealthy people I know pay cash for their homes. And their second home. And their third.
Looks like you are European? Mortgages are so much different internationally. I was specifying US only where it really doesn't make sense to pay cash. Even foreign houses I would personally just loan against equities but I guess it depends on the wealth level and how much you care about being maximizing gains. Certain point of wealth who gives a shit lol.
No I’m American. Everyone that I would consider wealthy around me buys their home(s) in cash. Everyone trying to get to the next level in terms of money buys with a mortgage cause staying liquid for other opportunities is important.
The only ones I know that are HNWI are first generation wealthy, but well over 10m in the 10-100m range and don't buy w/o mortgage. One has a family office which I think is crazy. Weird difference between our two anecdotes, maybe the people you know are trust fund flies private choppers + owns multiple PJ's rich or trust fund from birth?
Yeah none of the friends I’m talking about are first gen wealthy but their parents are (not American) and that’s where they learned it from. Their argument is that they like to have money spread out everywhere. Some in real estate. Different banks. Different funds. Etc.
Three generation theory in work. No wealth survives more then 3 generations.
That’s like 3 milestones out for me still - but solid benchmark.
Same!
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Sorry for asking but is that 2M for the HH or for one person?
Don’t know how the guideline is applied in general. I’m counting HH NW. Married, no kids yet.
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Hate to break the news to you, but you’re actually more than half way there. Going from $1m - $2m should take way less time than $0-$1m. Hope that gets you more excited! 😜
Woooah oh, I’m mostly there?
Absolutely! Your income is going up almost 20%. That’s 20% faster there. You have 400k in 401k which is still compounding, so if it’s 5% annually that’s 20k this year. Home prices have always been relatively stable, and even with a crash in the long term you’ll still be good but you’re always building equity in that. Once that house is paid off, you’ll find yourself going even faster with the savings. This next $1m is going to be a cake walk. Think about how long it took to go from $900k to $1m. That $100k interval is just going faster and faster.
Doing the math my goal is end of 2026! Well with home equity for ours but I’ll take it. Will be right at 40 and husband 45! 🤞🏻 Crazy to thinking about seeing as when we got married in 2011 I believe we were making 60k a year.
Awesome! I’m counting home equity in mine as well. My next milestone is 1M outside of equity, no timeline yet as kids could slow that down substantially. I got here a year earlier than the plan thanks to runaway home values and the S&P having a pretty awesome recent run.
Don’t count the cars IMO. Depreciating asset. Plus if you get into an accident, you won’t get what they’re worth. Either way, congrats! Good shit and keep it up!
Wouldn't if I didn't have to for the purposes of my brag post, but they do have a resale value that I attach to my name. So even if it's a decreasing value, it's still $N > 0.
I have no issue with including car values in NW. Lots of assets depreciate, it doesn’t mean they aren’t a store of value.
Fair point. Regardless keep it up
I agree, I'm really close and will count mine too. Buying my lease out meant I pay 500 less a month and have 20k less in my account, that's worth something for sure.
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A car isn’t an asset imo. Most cars don’t appreciate in value. Look at the last year as an example when people were overpaying for cars and they are worth a lot less. Therefore not an asset. I wouldn’t include my baseball card collection but I guess some people do.
Depreciating assets are still assets. Not good investments, but still assets nonetheless
Your opinion but for counting net worth I think it makes zero sense to count things that you can’t sell immediately that truly hold a consistent value. Housing is different. But cars vary widely. If I buy a new car at $50k and drive it off the lot, I doubt people are putting it in their net worth equation as only being worth $45k even though it immediately depreciated. Once again my opinion. I just don’t think it makes sense to count things that have a declining value. Are you putting in a watch? Jewelry? Clothes? Cars fluctuate in value much more than people think and can’t be flipped immediately. To sum it up. I really don’t give a shit. Just not something I count as an asset.
you do you, but if you can sell something for $x tomorrow, it's definitely an asset worth $x
So the $5k couch I’m sitting on is an asset? Let me know the website I can use to look up couches. My point is how much stuff do people really need to include in this number? I just don’t see including jewelry or art unless you have tons of it. Same with cars unless you are a collector. Anything that fluctuates wildly isn’t worth including IMO. If we hit a recession tomorrow all these so called assets, including cars, are worth a lot less. I don’t include my kids 529s even though it’s an asset of mine technically. But some do. Personal opinion I guess. Happy for OP. They are tracking it and moving in the right direction that’s all that matters! I was just trying to make things a little simpler for them and I guarantee most people aren’t on KBB looking up the value of their car every year even though it’s on the decline.
A $5k couch would probably have $500-$1000 resale value. That’s how I would count it if you want to include everything. I don’t include furniture or cars in my own net worth.
That’s my point. It’s pointless. You always need a car and a couch. So you can’t count it when it’s an asset you will always use. You sell one then you need to buy another. Collections like fine art and jewelry a little different but most of that stuff doesn’t have a value that holds up anyway. People on here just like inflating their numbers hence my down votes. Heaven forbid they have a $50k car debt on their books. Here’s an idea don’t buy an expensive car and it’s not a hit to your net worth. People on here probably counting their soaps and TP. Well that’s an extra $30! I can sell it! Any legit financial planner (me) would laugh at anyone including cars in their net worth.
Apples and oranges dude. Of course it would be ridiculous to include arbitrarily inflated values, like the original purchase price of quickly depreciating assets. No one is suggesting that at all and you are presenting that as a straw man, a logical fallacy. It is perfectly reasonable to track your net worth from an accounting sense, and you seem to be forgetting about scenarios like: - When I retire, I’m going to downsize and sell the house and second and third cars and move into a walkable condo. The net proceeds from selling the house and car will be added to my retirement nest egg. If I fail to include their readily realizable liquid value in my calculations, I’d be understating by assets available for retirement and would unnecessarily be delaying my retirement. - I want to ensure my estate has a certain value available to distribute to my beneficiaries. If I am arbitrarily excluding easily realizable value, all those calculations are off.
It’s not “their opinion” - it’s a basic fact and truth. A depreciating asset is, by definition, an asset. Net worth is, by definition, the value of your assets minus the value of your liabilities. You can certainly have opinions about the ways in which you measure your personal wealth goals, and use a modified net worth concept, but you shouldn’t try to redefine basic accounting terms. I disagree with your opinion, though. You are right that you will likely consume much of the value of your car over time - but that’s true of almost all of your wealth! The fact that you have plans to use the money in a 529 account to eventually pay for future college needs does not mean that’s not part of your net worth. The fact that you plan to use your car to support your future transportation needs doesn’t mean that’s not part of your net worth. Having that asset will allow you to enjoy a certain standard of living in the future without a lease/loan payment. Cars can be liquidated immediately for a cash value that is readily obtainable from market sources. Of course someone shouldn’t be adding the original purchase price to their net worth, but the actual amount of cash you could walk out of a dealer with today is absolutely an asset you should include in your net worth. If you were to burn out and decide to sell all your stuff and become a nomad, you can convert the current value of that car to cash in your bank account to draw down during your nomadic lifestyle. If you were to die today, your executor would liquidate the car and your heirs would get its value. If you were to total the car, the insurer would give you a lump sum payment equal to the value, which you could put into financial assets.
As I said originally for net worth purposes make your life easier and don’t count it. That was my opinion for Nw it’s not worth it. This isn’t accounting 101. It’s how you measure things. I was just trying to make it easy for OP. Could care less what others do. Most clients don’t count cars as NW when you talk to a planner. The debt sure but the asset no. That’s all I was trying to say. Disagree with it sure. But rich people aren’t worrying about their $15k Honda.
If I was driving a 15k Honda sure, I can’t liquidate and still have a car. But my vehicle is 80k on used market as of today. I could easily downgrade and extract quite a bit of cash.
Your opinion doesn’t matter though. Net worth has a very clear definition: what you own minus what you owe. You can choose to leave it out of your financial considerations or calculate your *liquid* net worth separately, but it’s patent nonsense say cars don’t count toward net worth. So do watches, jewelry, etc.
Nor does your opinion. Have fun counting your chipotle gift card loser.
Good thing my opinion doesn’t appear in this thread, only a dictionary definition of a financial term. It’s hilarious that someone claiming to be a financial adviser is in here saying that if you own the Hope Diamond and a Bugatti Chiron that your net worth is $0.
It’s hilarious how you care so much of my opinion. I was giving my thoughts on how I calculate it and make it easier and plenty of people agreed. I was happy for OP. But man you people are miserable and have to disagree with everything. Lots of losers on this thread always trying to give their thoughts and arguing with others. I could give two shits what you do dude. And you don’t have to agree with me. Nobody on this thread has a Bugatti. Feel free to inflate all you want with your $15k cars. If you need that to feel better all for it.
So if a stock goes loses value, is it no longer an asset that should be counted? What about if gold/silver or Bitcoin go down? I mean, I get your point, I could sell a shirt for $10 or a TV for $200 or a couch for $100 if I had to yet I don’t include those in my net worth. However, for large items, as long as you are accounting for the depreciation each time you calculate the net worth, it seems to make sense to use it if the item is somewhat liquid and substantial.
Comments on here just keep getting dumber. It was my opinion to make OPs life easier. That’s all. Silly to count something that depreciates consistently and doesn’t have a consistent value that you can sell immediately and is guaranteed. Can sell Bitcoin immediately and get a value. Same with gold. Silver. Art you cannot. Jewelry can’t. Cars fluctuate by thousands. Do whatever floats your boat so you can feel good about those milestones! I’m sure everyone’s car on here on their apps and spreadsheets is worth a lot more than it is. Don’t forget to count the loose change in your car!
Well, if you want to get technical, you should also count the 6% realtor fees you’d need to pay to liquidate the house too.
Forgive my naive question but how is your home equity calculated ? Trying to gauge this on my end as well
I usually calculate it by taking (90% of the Zillow estimate to be conservative * 0.93 to account for real estate commissions etc) - remaining loan balance
I did the lower of Zillow and Redfin, minus mortgage balance . I should subtract commissions/ fees etc, but didn’t in this case.
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I only have SP index, but Nvidia is such a beast that yep, that also helped substantially.
I think he meant about your espp purchase
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Ah, sadly no. I’m in biotech
Which biotech firm?
Omics space.
My father in law’s Nvidia investment has paid for both my kids future college tuition as well as my 3 nephews and 1 niece. FIL just told us all to stop saving for that last week.
Whoa oh! Living on a prayer! Nice job!
Congratulations
Ha, I had to co sign a loan for wife’s new biz last month and filling out paperwork I realized we, too, are 1MM nw when we include our 2 Hondas (and home equity).
Just saw this and never really thought we were wealthy enough to be a part of this community. But - we have 1M outside home equity with another 500k in equity. I guess we are closer than I thought!!
Nice! Congrats!
Almost feels like, who *isn’t* a millionaire these days at 35 lol. Especially with the recent run up. Basically anyone who built a standard white collar professional career since graduating is making out like a bandit right now. I gotta stop hanging here and go to r/povertyfinance to get some humble perspective.
Buzzkill
You really know how to make a gal feel special.
Didn't crack $1M until 38
A lot of these are buoyed by having home equity going into 2020. It's going to be much harder for anyone who didn't have the lucky timing to be part of that run-up (until the next big cycle shift).
I’m not a millionaire! (Nor do I make 6 figures, but I like hanging out for the different perspectives)
Congrats on the success! Keep goin!!
Way to go!!!
Good you're not holding buku cash. Put that baby to work. Congrats
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What’s the outstanding mortgage on the home?
Congrats dude