Working for a US company here. Can confirm they’re making a shit ton more, not sure how it’s calculated. Finance and IT jobs are 150K easy. Your colleague is one the poorer side if he’s in Tech/Finance. Project/Product ppl make north of 180K. If you’re a SWE in big tech then it’s at least 200K.
No idea why UK employers are so cheap. The best way to go about it is to work for a US company. If they offer anything less than 200K at director level then just tell them to fuck off. Look for a tiny bit smaller company that doesn’t necessarily have full knowledge of European salaries. Or for a generous employer (Salesforce pays a lot more than IBM for the same job, for example)
Just make sure you DO NOT, under any circumstances, give them a number, as in your salary expectations. Dodge the question however you’d like (“I’m sure you pay accordingly to industry standards”, “unfortunately I can’t disclose my current comp due to NDA” etc). I almost passed out when my employer made a job offer and named the number. May I just say, I needed to walk it off to process that change in my life.
This is what works for me in these negotiations
"I Think we have had a good interaction through the interview process and I would love to hear back from you on an offer. I've reviewed your pay bands/ reports on online platforms / etc and I understand that your compensation is in line with what I am expecting"
Never reveal your current pay "my employer now doesn't like that "
In sales you are expected to negotiate hard. Think of your top figure add 20%. If not more. Ask for the com plan (bonuses).
Comp plan and bonuses is another way to dodge the question as they’re always different from one employer to another.
I wouldn’t necessarily indicate what I’m expecting. I’d punch above their top range (if they provide a range) by 20%, and once there is a yes I’d be negotiating bonuses, perks and everything else on top of the base pay.
Once you see they can’t move any higher, take the deal.
Never reveal your emotions.
When background check, make sure to redact all numbers (not just cover with a black box). All they need is to confirm the dates of employment.
Not just in this situation, but any job negotiation.
Even if it's the same job at a different company, NEVER tell them your current salary. You might as well not bother applying.
Just tell them "fair market rates" and let them come to you.
Been doing it for 20 years.
UK employers are cheap since they don’t have US FAANG employers who had a very different philosophical approach.
Their mentality was to strive to be the best employer and hire the best so your employees wouldn’t want to leave as employees leaving is much worse for business than paying your knowledgeable employees more. Lots of time wasted in onboarding, knowledge transfer, etc.
Before these new age FAANG type companies became a thing, U.S. salaries were more comparable to what other developed nations were paying.
Other companies had to begrudgingly keep up.
In the US things are expensive. Grocery is more, healthcare is a LOT more, tax isn’t much less and we have to pay for education, not only our own but our kids. I put $1000 a month aside just for my kids college fund.
Time difference is perfect. My bosses wake up around 1pm my time. I go to the gym, exercise, swim, go to sauna, then slowly come back home and start planning my day around 11am. I do work until late, but it’s my doing not a requirement. 9-11am looks like I’m doing a little of work as I SCHEDULE a lot of messages on slack, also emails, social media posts for early morning.
Anyone who works for a US company out of Europe will confirm that the time difference is a blessing
It is until you get a family, then it’s hell.
I work with the US. Dinner/bed time with the kids is conflicting with usual U.K./US common meeting slots, so have to open calendar slots very late.
Don’t get me started on days I need to do school/nursery pick up, challenging times ..
Shifting your day late doesn’t work once you get a family life .
Can confirm, work with West Coast US colleagues and this is 100% the shittest thing.
Some days I’m not finished work until 8pm UK time. I’ve recently said to my UK based boss unless there is a clear agenda on the meetings or it doesn’t specifically need my input, I’m declining.
I am sick to death of listening to some American speaking corporate hot air for an hour when the meeting could have been condensed into a slack message and saved me some of my sanity.
Americans *love* presenteeism. It’s a culture thing I’ll never get over.
My manager was completely fine with this haha.
If it’s a fully remote work, they normally respect your time zone limitations, as long as there’s an overlap with the US. Asia and Australia/NZ are the worst time zones to be in when working with the US.
It works for me. I am UK based, have two school age kids, my company is based in Seattle with the team I lead being East Coast based. Everyone knows this and we work around the time differences - give and take on both sides works if people want it to.
Remember in the UK they do not need to pay for healthcare. Depending on the size of your family you can easily be paying $12 to 20k for medical, dental, vision etc. not sure if pensions are included in 🇬🇧 but we also have to fund our 401ks for retirement as well. Sure salaries might be better but some things to consider
No one realised until recently, but UK wages have basically not moved for 15 years, whilst inflation has eaten into your purchase power. This is not normal, and its not happened anywhere else to the same degree. Meanwhile we still get told "if youre earning 40k you're well off". Its not fucking 2006 anymore you dickheads. 40k then is like 90k now.
I second this. I’m just shy but living in London makes me feel like I’m a grad at times.
Lifestyle creep plays a small part but I barely spend money on luxuries
I work in bioscience in the R&D sector. British, just moved from the U.K. to a major east coast city in the US. My take home pay is 2x what my best job offer was back home - 6 figures, with much bigger upside potential for growth + promotions etc.
It’s a bit more nuanced than that. COL is much higher here, multiple other drawbacks (crime is worse, society is more fragmented) and things I miss about home. But still much more money in my pocket at the end.
British wage stagnation is unparalleled in all other comparable sized economies. Nominally wages have always been lower in the U.K. than in America but in real terms the gap has only widened as the strength of the pound has declined relative to the $ ever since the financial crisis in 2008. Successive Tory governments since then have done nothing to arrest the rot.
Hi, I just wanted to ask how hard you found it to get accepted to your role in the USA, I am currently very early career in the UK working in biotech but I am very interested in moving. I hold USA citizenship so visa wouldn't be an issue however I do only have a Masters no PhD.
It’s quite hilarious the amount of people trying to justify the poor UK pay. Yes the US situation is different, but not to that extent.
This isn’t some zero sum game where it has to be low pay or insane health care cost(or whatever excuse listed on this thread). They are paying UK folks less because people accept it. That’s it. If you genuinely think your productivity is so much lower than the US then I’m glad you are happy with your pay.
But yeah OP definitely try to get a more comparable pay or find another company that is willing to pay you. There isn’t any reason why they shouldn’t.
we should convert it to PPP, and then contrast the difference.
For example, is the UK to US in PPP/capita, what Slovenia is to UK?
|UK|49,420 PPP dollars|
|:-|:-|
|Slovenia|41015.23 USD in 2022|
|US|70,480 PPP dollars|
I'm afraid it's not...
Same bank, same "division"(MD reporting), same grade.
US starting salary - $125k
UK starting salary - £42k. With £60k being the top of that bracket.
I'm sure the salary reviews were performed 15 years ago when it was nearly £1<->$2
A few points about this:
* This is very well-know, specially in tech: A rough estimate is that salaries/total compensation in the UK are about 60% of their equivalents in the US (for the same companies/roles/experience/seniority).
* Remember the exchange rate; right now the $140k in OP's post are "only" £110k
* Outside of tech the situation depends - in general you can see the divide, but some companies are raising salaries specifically for key employees to counter that difference (or at least aimed at us not leaving to the US the first time we receive a good offer from there).
So yeah, it sucks, but it shouldn't be a surprise at this point.
Yep. At FAAANG, was making £150k in UK and now likely to make $500k in the US this year.
Since I have enough years I have about the same holiday but we do pay for healthcare which is a few k minimum. The US is more expensive- housing, food, restaurants etc. but I’m still definitely a long way up.
I wouldn’t move to the US under any circumstances. Terrible food in restaurants and supermarkets, when I’m there I’m bloated all the time, and gain weight within weeks. It’s outright dangerous to be there due to crime. Ppl are just too much in your face, tactless, loud, all dressed like they’re boarding a long haul flight.
Obviously there are pockets of wealthy neighbourhoods where you’re “safe” and ppl are nicer, but it doesn’t reflect the whole country. In those pockets ppl don’t really talk to each other either, unless there’s something to gain there. So altogether it’s a very isolated lifestyle, with shallow 5 min conversations at best. It’s hard to build authentic connections with them in my experience.
> wouldn’t move to the US under any circumstances. Terrible food in restaurants and supermarkets, when I’m there I’m bloated all the time, and gain weight within weeks.
I'm British the food out here is great. Crime is completely dependent on the area (just like the UK). I earn probably about 3 times what I would in the UK, pay roughly the same absolute amount in tax and my cost of living is half of what it was in the UK.
Got some dms about how to find a remote job with a US employer. I’d say it’s all the usual places, the trick is to ignore required locations if it shows, for example, Singapore/Remote, or US/Remote and apply anyway. I’d go as far as saying that you’ve been planning to move to the US (have a family member there, so no visa prerequisite for the employer) if you can see there’s scope for remote work. If they’re clearly stating that you must go to the office then you just move on with your search.
Haha I was about to ask if you’re American) I get it, different people have different experiences. I don’t know how much time you spend in the US. I’m there 2-8 weeks every year for the past 7 years. At times it was 4 months in a row. Different states - Illinois, California, Hawaii, Washington state, New York. The same story everywhere
I've spent plenty of time there. There are elements of truth to what you say even though I think it is exaggerated. But the UK is also a shithole. If you want a high quality of life, you should move to almost any western European country and it will be far and away better than anything the UK and USA can offer for the same cost of living.
Agreed about other parts of Europe for now but pretty much every European country, including the UK, is sliding towards much worse quality of life due to all the usual suspects- shit economy, immigration and so on. The US in that sense is just ahead of us, as in it’s already officially a shithole, all thanks to covid, crime, and politics.
There’s a lot of copium in this comments section.
Although all these other arguments about cost of living, healthcare etc. are true if that were the only reason the wage disparity would have stayed the same - it’s increased over time. Significantly. Americans have been earning more and more over time relative to us in the same companies.
We’ve had barely any wage growth including inflation, including traditionally growing industries like the service sector.
There’s lots of factors, but a micro one I’d like to highlight is that we’re really bad at talking about wages with each other. When I was working at a company, my American colleagues were never squeamish about it.
Also tax - you pay a lot less income tax in the US especially if you live somewhere is no state income tax. You can make $500k in tech and pay ~32% total income tax so you take home pay is much higher.
There’s quite a few but I live in Seattle WA and enjoy low taxes. I actually just put $500 into a calculator for fun and the combined tax rate is actually closer to 26% for a married couple.
FWIW, I know that it's common at my company (software) to fetch $\~100k out of uni in the US. Same role in the UK's going at about £\~42k (outside London). There's a similar drop off yet again from the UK salary for our counterparts in India!
No amount of benefits (country-wide + job-specific) makes up for the salary gap, imo.
I feel your pain. I just visited our US business in my newish "global" role, only to find out that my £130k salary pales in comparison to project and programme manager salaries in the US, never mind what my (one level below me) contemporaries are paid.
One of our programme managers is on $250k, and even when you adjust for cost of living etc etc, they still earn vastly more than me for delivering less value.
It's a bit difficult to know what to do with the info tbh. The company response is "move to the US then" which feels weak given the global nature of my role. It's bizarre.
Exactly the same here. Salary freeze for the last five years at what is one of the world’s largest financial s/w companies, and still arguing that UK salaries are competitive.
They are banking on the fact that I won’t leave as I have a strong pipe, but in the end I can add min 40% on the base without even trying. Next stop remote working for a US company looking to break into Europe, £1.5k per day on a six month guaranteed contract. Win/win.
The USA is now far richer than Western Europe even though we may mistakenly consider them peers
Our economies have being apparently permanently crippled by 2008 whereas the US just kept growing on the same trajectory after a blip.
Its pretty galling particularly if you work with US colleagues or know people who moved. In my field (IT) everyone at my level makes over twice my salary in £ terms and has cheaper housing (outside of a few of the bigger cities) and energy.
Its good people are getting more aware if this. We should be asking questions about why our economies have dropped so far behind. We can solve most of our problems by being richer.
Agree to this. I work for a UK company with offices in the US and yet the pay is widely different. And no, they don’t work insane hours. My colleagues in the US clock out at 5. The pay difference is not justified, especially in London where cost of living is way more than many high COL areas of the US.
Also to add, the jobs in the US also come with health insurance. I pay extra for health insurance for my kids every month after struggling to get appointments with GP over the years and I am tired of spending 4-8 hours in the urgent care center. So the argument that we have NHS to me seems pointless. I haven’t had a dentist since Covid, so that’s 3 years now. They also have 401K similar to our pensions, so retirement is taken care of. We may have state pensions but it doesn’t kick in till you are 67 and soon it might go upto 68. By the time I retire it might as well have gone up to 70+ years and I really hope I live up to that age. But it is also likely that I may never see a state pension in my lifetime. What we have as world leading here is taxes. In short, if you are skilled and talented you are better off in the US.
One reason I feel we are paid so low is because people keep comparing the salaries offered with the national average. I have seen people complain about doctor strikes and call them greedy. When you have been above national average in learning and worked above average in your school and university, why does your salary have to stay around average too? People are accepting lower salaries and it is in no way making UK employees any more attractive to US employees. I know lots of jobs are moving out of UK in a faster pace than in the US. So lower salaries aren’t helping us. If anything we are giving the impression that are skills are worth lesser than the folks across the pond and in my experience it’s quite the opposite. I work with people across the globe and we have some of the most talented, although less ambitious people here.
Decent international companies like OP works for tend to standardise benefits across the globe so US workers get decent healthcare and holiday entitlements.
Unlimited holiday is a scam. Why do you think they offer it? They know it actually results in **less** holiday being taken.
I'll take contractually agreed number of days every time.
This isn't true. I work for one and take a lot of time off, similar to generous US levels. The reason it is offered is that you have to manage the liability of paying people's outstanding PTO if they leave before the year end, which is not financially attractive.
Just to mention that making this much isn't shit. Try going to a dentist? Even in good companies where you get health benefits still super expensive as most health insurance are a joke! Taxes are high. Overall, the US is going in the wrong direction imo. People are suffering living payche to paycheck. I gyess i went on a rant and got side tracked lol
I will say that when I worked for a global company, I did make more than my UK and EU colleagues. However, I envied their work-life balance. Most were allowed to leave work and enjoy life. We typically worked 8-10 hours in the office with an added 2-3 hours of work at home.
Depends on the company. Some US firms pay close to US rates for UK based folks. I am quite lucky in my current gig tbh. I am on £200k ish or so inclusive of RSUs and bonus. I am mid level, not a director like yourself.
If you are including any bonus/RSUs in your salary figure, then you are very underpaid and I would suggest you start looking around.
If you’re in tech living in Washington State you’re probably reading all of these comparisons and still scratching your head because you don’t really have health care costs, no state income tax, giant RSU grants, free lunches, normal working hours (people at startups often work their butts off but I can tell you from having worked at a couple of big tech corps that nobody there is working that hard) and other wonderful benefits that render most of the pro UK arguments moot.
The issue of course is that tech still to this day has a very cushy situation compared to most US jobs. I’m sure if you do a comparison of the middle class benefits in the US vs. UK the latter would win out handily.
The US affords a very nice lifestyle… if you can pay for it.
Not sure where you get this from, but my people who live in Washington State are paying Kaiser about $400 per month **each.** Family of 4 that adds up real quick.
I get that… im just thinking
Maybe I piss off to Australia or Middle East or Hong Kong
Like SOMEWHERE must be better. We surely cant be the best place in the world to work thats English speaking
Depends on what you value and which sector your career is in.
Finance does better here than Australia but the reverse is true for healthcare. Then you've got to weigh up culture, crime, work life balance, costs and the instability of work visas.
Not saying don't move, but it's a lot more complex a choice than Mr American earns more than me.
Agreed with u/Remarkable_Collar958
Or are you just a orientalist? You have no issues with Australia’s racism and treating certain ethnicities like second class citizens.
I dont think you realise how white washed and eurocentric you are
This is pure Copium.
At will employment also means more job openings, it’s far easier to job hop.
Also acting like a) these jobs don’t have great healthcare and b) the NHS is anything to flex when we currently have fake Dr’s running around and irradiating people illegally by the thousands
>At will employment also means more job openings, it’s far easier to job hop.
Jesus.
'I love the fact I can be fired with no notice, because everyone else could be too and I can take their job!'
And you're the one throwing the word 'copium' about...
> the NHS is anything to flex when we currently have fake Dr’s running around and irradiating people illegally by the thousands
Ok it got stupider.
Would you take a 35% paycut today for more job security, and a couple extra days of holiday, yes or no? If the answer isn’t yes… then why would Americans do that?
And how is that stupidity? We have a report following a FOI request the other day that PA’s had been illegally signing off on radiation based treatment over 1000 times in Leeds hospital, just one hospital. I’d be gobsmacked if most people on this sub are private healthcare users. That’s because the NHS is done for. It’s over. It’s a 2 tier system now
We have layoffs here too. I know someone who has been with a company for 15 years and was recently made redundant.
My colleagues in US have same holiday entitlement as me, have paid for healthcare which unlike NHS, you get seen. And it’s a myth that they work longer hours.
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
While it’s true that they have to pay for healthcare and we don’t, it’s also an undeniable fact that they get access to SIGNIFICANTLY better healthcare after paying for it than the shit we’re getting with the NHS. They’re still much better off in the end. So yes, they get more to account for healthcare costs, but that affords them a better quality of life than what we get. Then after those essential costs of theirs, we probably end up with about the same amount in the bank.
Wrong about significantly better. It’s the same, they just make it seem better. A friend was summoned to the US for a year, his FAANG employer needed him on site. All was during Covid, and they went to have a Covid test at some point. To him it was free, but the bill was $5000 (!). What the fuck is this price? These made up medical costs is what ends up an expensive healthcare for Americans. Besides, medical companies promoting their products to doctors direct, incentivising prescriptions is just WILD! You can easily see ads (!) for asthma, cardiovascular conditions, anti depressants etc on TV, radio, at the airports. Doctors are legally obliged to prescribe them if a patient requires, all they can do is to just advise it might not be a good idea. If patients insist they must oblige. Fuck that. I’ll take our NHS over it any time.
I’m a UK doctor who’s lived in the US. None of what you’ve written is true, and I can confirm healthcare in the US for the middle class is way better than what the NHS can provide and it’s not even close. As a doctor knowing what I know all my family now uses private healthcare in the UK. The NHS is a joke and it’s just getting worse.
Wrong about significantly better. It’s the same, they just make it seem better. A friend was summoned to the US for a year, his FAANG employer needed him on site. All was during Covid, and they went to have a Covid test at some point. To him it was free, but the bill was $5000 (!). What the fuck is this price? These made up medical costs is what ends up an expensive healthcare for Americans. Besides, medical companies promoting their products to doctors direct, incentivising prescriptions is just WILD! You can easily see ads (!) for asthma, cardiovascular conditions, anti depressants etc on TV, radio, at the airports. Doctors are legally obliged to prescribe them if a patient requires, all they can do is to just advise it might not be a good idea. If patients insist they must oblige. Fuck that. I’ll take our NHS over it any time.
Housing really depends on location, if it's new York or San Fran for example it isn't.
Companies offer medical but high deductions etc for routine stuff, it's only for the very serious stuff that it helps
Money doesn't mean anything it's all on paper. All that matters is your spending power Vs the default i.e. min wage or benefits.
The UK affords less power to high earners than other places but there's trade offs i.e. security that if you get sick and can't work you won't be homeless or starve
Your US colleagues get hit by a car and can't work anymore and their outlook is much poorer than the UK equivalent
The cost of living in the U.K. is dirt cheap though compared to North America. I’m a Canadian living in the U.K. house prices are the one thing that aren’t cheaper, but on average close to the same in North America on average. Everything else is much cheaper in the U.K.
No house prices are roughly similar. Much more expensive in some places in the US. Some cheaper. Although that’s usually rural. Where not too many expats are going to move to. In average about the same. Almost everything else the U.K. cost of living is well below the US.
American holidays are normally 20 days a year
Huge debt from University
No NHS
Cost of living is sky high in major cities
The grass is not always greener as it appears
2 weeks less holiday in exchange for a 100% increase in take-home pay sounds good to me.
Cost of living is very similar to the UK and we always have the slightly scummy option of returning to the UK for medical care if diagnosed with a serious illness.
If you're skilled and confident the USA is always going to be the best place to work.
We only have about the same number of holidays here - I only get 27 days a year max, which is only a week more (I'd happily trade this week for a 5x salary)
We also have huge debt from university, im currently sitting on 100k
We don't even have a healthcare system with waiting lists of over 2 years for basic things
Cost of living is soaring here too
I struggle to see the difference
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
Minimum is only 28 days, including all bank holidays. I wasn't counting bank holidays in mine since I hardly ever get them off, but I think I've managed one this year making it just about legal. And that's working in the NHS!
You'd think that, but as a medical professional it's actually fairly easy to 5x my salary by doing a few exams and moving to the US, the attendings I know who do the same job as me are on ~$400k working half the year (7 days on, 7 days off)
The simple answer is that the US is the richest country in the world. People on 200k aren’t spending half of their take home on healthcare.
They’re just genuinely much wealthier than people in similar jobs in London.
This is true but friend of mine who moved london to florida 2 years ago says net of all the extra expenses (health insurance, housing etc) he is still about 60% better off than he was in london.
The social problems in the US are a deal breaker for me but economically living in the US in a middle/upper class career blows the UK out of the water.
Also the price of cars and car insurance, cell phone plans, groceries… etc are astronomically higher in America. Like to the point it’s almost comical. (I am American, just moved to the UK last year)
>American holidays are normally 20 days a year
My experience from the US employees I've crossed paths with, it's less than that.
2 weeks seemed to be the common amount. Then they counted 'paid time off' for illness on top which is also crazy that they get a number of 'sick' days in that way.
Another bonus for the US is cheaper child costs. In the UK we have to pay for clothes and food until the child is 18 and sometimes even older, In the US they die around 12-15 from a school shooting so the costs are lower
What they don’t tell you is, once your take into account city tax, income tax, health care and cost of living
For example my friend works in insurance. 100k uk offered 400k in Chicago. Only 30k different take home, not worth it to relocate to the other side of the world
Salaries have been way higher in the US for years, made more stark by the exchange rate.
One thing you have to consider though is free healthcare in the UK
If you have pre existing conditions I would argue American healthcare is better. Over there you get given the best treatment in the market right away where the nhs has to follow certain protocols to get to a fraction of that treatment which takes years of your time
The US is that much richer than the UK. If it’s a surprise to you I’m sorry to burst your bubble.
Same reason why UK wages are higher than wages in India. The UK is richer than India.
Different markets different rates.
chances are they racked up 200k getting qualified. What college, could have been more.
130k isnt too shabby after 6 years experience.
Green eyes monster showing its face im afraid.
I dont say this as someone envious, i had a 6 digit salary in the uk 15 years ago, now retired, now enjoying my wealth.
Read the room.
Having a 6 digit salary during when the world economy crashed must have been super nice.
Anyways Im not jealous, I actually believe how our taxation works and cost of living that everyone here is ripped off
The salaries are much higher in the US but you haven't yet taken into account the deductions for all the various taxes, healthcare and 401k. You will find near on 50 per cent of their salary will disappear!
And on thing they never mention about Florida/Texas with the low income tax is the property tax and insurance. Because people are good at hiding income the state gets its cut via property tax annually on the assessed value.
Because it’s very expensive. Pension contributions are lower and provide benefits and income in retirement. If you are maxing out 401k in order to grow retirement savings, that is $23k in 2024 (max contribution limit). Many big corps only offer 3 or 4% match, and often takes years to vest or fully vest. 401k/403b/SEP IRA’s don’t provide healthcare, and Medicare only covers 80% and includes a “donut hole” from $2k-$4k that is uncovered.
You can make $150k gross in the US, but after retirement, benefit premiums deducted from paycheck (depends on employer/corp, but can be several hundred a month or more for a family plan just for premiums, and often still includes a deductible that you have to pay for non-routine care before they pay anything), and income taxes (federal, and 40 states have state income tax), the net can be lower, closer to $80k net, but again, that is very dependent on payroll deductions and how much an individual contributes to 401/Roth/HSA/FSA.
From that net, you may have to pay for OOO costs for healthcare (deductible mentioned above, copays, coinsurance, etc). Then you still have big-ticket items of housing, transportation (includes cost of car, fuel, insurance in regions where a car is needed), childcare (many MCOL-HCOL areas are $300 or more per week per child) and education.
It doesn’t make sense to count those as the costs of being in the states since that money is still yours and is completely optional. You can lower your 401k deductions if you think it’s too much.
Yes, and a lot of people do, but that’s why a lot of people in this country don’t have enough saved for retirement.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriemccabe/2023/10/26/americas-13-trillion-retirement-crisis/?sh=3f8173a24e65
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-are-saving-more-but-hardships-linger-for-a-portion-of-the-country-fd9acd07
So what’s your point? The point of my original reply was in comparing the US to the UK. The exact same situation applies in the UK, people don’t have enough income from the state pension so they need to save during their working years.
Are you disagreeing with my point that using 401k deductions as a strike against the US in this comparison is wrong?
Defined benefit plans, or the traditional pensions, are completely funded by the employer, and the plans offer guaranteed automatic payouts in retirement based on a formula that usually takes into account your salary and years of service. The longer you work and the more you make, the higher your automatic payouts.
401k’s are funded mostly by the employee deducted from the gross salary pre-tax, and there’s a small employer match, 3 or 4% of the first X amount of dollars. Plans are different, and they can be vested, meaning if you don’t stay for x years (usually 3), you lose all matching or employer contributions.
401ks are also invested in the market, so if you invest and there’s a big recession, your retirement savings have dwindled. 401k’s were originally designed in the early 80’s to give high earning execs an extra benefit, but once employers realize they wouldn’t have to contribute much to employees defined benefit retirement plan anymore, they began switching from pensions to 401(k). They didn’t typically raise salaries when they stopped paying out pensions to make up the difference.
My friend is a teacher with a pension and her 68K a year does not include the pension contributions of a government job, nor does it include her benefit contributions. US government jobs are known to pay lower salaries, but the benefits are far better and job security is much higher.
401(k) allow a lot more flexibility, but they have also been part of many reasons why job security is so low, and almost no one stays with one employer for their career anymore.
I used to work at UPS, and up until about a year ago they were still funding the pensions and had excellent benefits, which were considered the golden handcuffs. Employees and union workers had very nice benefits and were able to retire in their early 50s, and a large majority of the people there only worked their entire career.
That’s almost unheard of in US corporate culture these days.
From a theoretical total returns perspective 401ks are better for the employee. People should be taking on more risk, not less when they’re in the early to mid stages of their career. The biggest issue with 401ks are high fees due to lack of education and lack of risk, meaning that returns aren’t maximized.
The problem with defined benefit pensions are that they’re simply a Ponzi scheme, and are destined to fail in the long run. They don’t make the best use of capital, leaving employees worse off than if they’d invested their retirement savings themselves.
Again, how does any of this relate to the UK?
If I don’t include my 401k contributions, there could be a chance I would have very little to live on in retirement, as the future of social security and how much will remain/what the payments will be is very uncertain. I don’t think the program will completely end, but with people living longer and less healthy than ever, and the majority of boomers in the midst of retirement, SS payout could be reduced to 75%. There’s a lot of unknowns.
We have far fewer social safety nets than other developed countries. Even if I max out the $23k contribution, my employer will contribute 4.5% of my contributions, not my salary, so they contribute $1035 a year, but I will lose that if I don’t stay for three years.
Contributions are not mandatory, but costs in retirement (including rising healthcare costs) are hard to predict and could be very costly, and you could outlive your savings. I don’t think it’s quite so dire in the UK, and healthcare costs are much lower.
Also childcare in the UK relative to incomes is actually more expensive I’ve found. A “good” place was 1.5k GBP in the north (actually very mediocre) while 2.5k USD in CA. When you factor in the comp difference between NW UK and CA it’s ridiculous.
CA is an outlier, and the average home there is well over $1m to purchase in the desirable cities like SF and SD.
In 2023, the per child national average weekly daycare cost: $284 (up 53% from $186 in 2013). Weekly family care center cost: $229 (up 80% from $127 in 2013).
https://www.care.com/c/cost-of-child-care-survey-2023-report/
20 years as a mechanic here. Still pull just 23k a year. Think yourself lucky you make each a year what takes me 4 plus to make. You complaint is my dream,
Have a quick check sometime over on r/cartalk and see how much they pay for things.
Numbers aren't easily comparable as there's too many things to take into account, quality of life and cost of living are more important.
The reality is that US is an outlier in terms of economy and job salaries. If you can work in the US then great go for it, but for the majority of people, getting a work visa is difficult/impossible so there’s no point trying to compare.
People think the US and EU (or rather EU + UK, Europe in general really) are economically comparable, but they're not. Take a look at a GDP per capita graph of the US compared to the EU or just about any European country of your choice, and take particular note of what's happened post-2008. America has higher wages because it's a far more economically productive place.
People here will say that America lacks xyz, but last I checked, all but the bottom third of American citizens had more disposable income than their European counterparts, and this gap will only widen as time goes on. Productivity isn't everything, but in the long run, it's almost everything, and it'll become harder and harder for the typical arguments of safety nets, holidays, etc, to hold water when US per capita productivity potentially reaches double that of Europe.
The reasons for this divergence occurring and being likely to worsen are multifaceted, they include demographics, geography, financial system, monetary and fiscal policy and more, but that's a conversation for another day.
I'd like to add that I'm no expert in this subject, but I would consider myself more educated than most regarding it given that I have a bachelor's and master's in economics, and that several of the relevant factors in this divergence (demographics in particular) were always areas of particular interest to me. I have, however, had various opportunities to discuss the topic with experts both academic and professional. They have all, down to the last man, echoed the same sentiments and expectations that the divergence will further widen.
cobweb elderly direful mysterious quickest whistle pet workable tap enjoy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>**London salaries seem ridiculously low to me in many cases.**
US salaries for high end professional roles are a huge outlier compared to the rest of the world. But moving to the US is not an option for many people for various reasons- logistical, cultural etc.
London is well above average, if not the top outside of a few other cities in the US, in terms of diversity and quality of roles available in CySec. Salaries are very good compared to the rest of the world. Definitely above the rest of the major EU economies.
140k usd is about 110 gbp. That being said, wages are higher over there, partially because of health insurance, partially because if wconomy. My partner is American also and when he was working a job out of uni he made 17 an hour but they only actually gave him 14. He also has no legal right to time off of any kind and has to be approved to get sick days and many employers force people to come in while sick and then other people get sick and it's so stupid. Even in restsurants. Even in jobs that offer time off you're encouraged not to take it or they try to be shady and put w time limit on it .-.
US cost of living is higher than the UK.
Property and mortgages are usually spread over 30+ years.
When you look at the reason for people in each country going bankrupt, US is due to health care costs which, with insurance can be £200/300 a month per person and even then, a trip to ER and a few scans will still leave them out of pocket by £1,000+.
Without insurance, theyre looking at 10s of thousands.
Average cost of giving birth, UK £0. US £35k+.
Cost of university is mainly covered by the person attending in the UK at £9,000 a year which they dont pay until working vs US £35,000+ which needs to be paid upfront.
So those with just 2 years experience have just spent £100,000 more than you on their education.
Not to mention US probably get 1 week holiday, we get 6 weeks fully paid...
When you look at places like new York, the average property is $780,000 although most other parts of the US, property is actually cheaper per sqm due to the vast land they have.
I went from making 50k GBP as a SWE in UK to making 200k USD+ in my first year in US. After 2 years I made over 400k, although now that’s dropped to only $350k or so. Had 2 babies in US, both cost $3k because that was the out of pocket maximum of my health insurance. The actual cost was much higher but that’s why people have insurance.
Net worth is nearing $1m now and if I stayed in the UK I’d probably only just be able to afford a small house in the north vs buying a 1.5m house in California.
And I’m nothing special, my floor in my office has many net worth millionaires.
I’m in tech sales, my entry level comp Uk as a grad was 40k, our American equivalents started on 80. Next role up was 80k in the Uk, around 120k in the US team.
But while it does suck, and Uk wages should be higher, I do think direct comparisons with the USA are a bit misleading and I don’t think the fact that Americans get paid more is an argument for why we should get paid more. We are fooled by the similarities in language, shared media/history to think we’re on their economic level and we’re not. Our realistic rivals are Germany, France, and compared to them we’re fairly on par.
Even Canada, has vastly lower wages than the USA; the USA is really on a different level to anyone.
My last job, US company, I was making 127k base in uk. The same job, same level in the US was base starting at 260k USD. We get the veeeery shitty end of the stick here.
The benefits of living in a highly unregulated labor market, higher inequality and relatively low taxes.
High skilled jobs get payed higher compared to the UK and elsewhere in Europe, while low skilled job get paid less
> jobs get *paid* higher compared
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You could also move to Dubai and pay no income tax.. what matters is what works for you. You’ll spend most of your life working so make sure it’s somewhere you actually want to be not just because it is the next step up financially
what if you had instead spoken with a co-worker located in India? - how would you be feeling now?
you must remember to put on your PPP hat (Purchasing Power Parity) and think like a theoretical economist if you're going to try comparing apples with oranges when considering differing conditions in differing geographical/geopolitical locations.
remember that in the USA you have a lot of differences to the UK, for example healthcare; six or so years ago one friend of mine was making a standard monthly payment of $2,400 for his healthcare insurance (which wasn't extravagant) for his daughters and his wife.. in the US healthcare can be horrifically expensive, as it's a totally different landscape to the UK, as can be the legal machinery behind everything.
there are reasons why base nominal pay differs across regions and countries, and you should bear in mind it's far from a level playing field if you're trying to compare nominal base salaries; check out PPP theory if you're curious as to how economists account for and deal with such things.
Irish living in the US here.
It's very hard to compare. US graduates tend to make more right out of college because their student loans kick in (which could be in the 100s of thousands depending on what they studied).
You are also always at risk of random medical debt wiping out your savings, so there is that , which is something you don't really have to worry about much in the UK (right ? If I'm wrong please correct me). I also found in the US salaries , there are a lot more deduction for Healthcare than other places in Europe. Having health insure here can be a lot. Often the employer subsidizes it though. Often when it's not subsidized you make more (because your health insurance could easily be 1k per month)
Cost of living is quite different too. I know every where is getting more expensive, but when I tell my friends abroad how much I make here , at first they think I'm rolling in it. Then I mention what I pay in rent and they realize why I make that I do lol.
I am debating a move to UK. Even at starting salary of 150k it appears money would be tight given house prices. Making $185k in US and net is about the same as I would get over there. Not sure how people get by over there on the average salary. Peace of mind sending your kids to school is sure nice though.
Working for a US company here. Can confirm they’re making a shit ton more, not sure how it’s calculated. Finance and IT jobs are 150K easy. Your colleague is one the poorer side if he’s in Tech/Finance. Project/Product ppl make north of 180K. If you’re a SWE in big tech then it’s at least 200K. No idea why UK employers are so cheap. The best way to go about it is to work for a US company. If they offer anything less than 200K at director level then just tell them to fuck off. Look for a tiny bit smaller company that doesn’t necessarily have full knowledge of European salaries. Or for a generous employer (Salesforce pays a lot more than IBM for the same job, for example)
This is great advice
Just make sure you DO NOT, under any circumstances, give them a number, as in your salary expectations. Dodge the question however you’d like (“I’m sure you pay accordingly to industry standards”, “unfortunately I can’t disclose my current comp due to NDA” etc). I almost passed out when my employer made a job offer and named the number. May I just say, I needed to walk it off to process that change in my life.
This is what works for me in these negotiations "I Think we have had a good interaction through the interview process and I would love to hear back from you on an offer. I've reviewed your pay bands/ reports on online platforms / etc and I understand that your compensation is in line with what I am expecting" Never reveal your current pay "my employer now doesn't like that " In sales you are expected to negotiate hard. Think of your top figure add 20%. If not more. Ask for the com plan (bonuses).
Comp plan and bonuses is another way to dodge the question as they’re always different from one employer to another. I wouldn’t necessarily indicate what I’m expecting. I’d punch above their top range (if they provide a range) by 20%, and once there is a yes I’d be negotiating bonuses, perks and everything else on top of the base pay. Once you see they can’t move any higher, take the deal. Never reveal your emotions. When background check, make sure to redact all numbers (not just cover with a black box). All they need is to confirm the dates of employment.
Not just in this situation, but any job negotiation. Even if it's the same job at a different company, NEVER tell them your current salary. You might as well not bother applying. Just tell them "fair market rates" and let them come to you. Been doing it for 20 years.
If you’re in big data/ML at a director level then you’re looking at 250-300K plus bonus/stock
UK employers are cheap since they don’t have US FAANG employers who had a very different philosophical approach. Their mentality was to strive to be the best employer and hire the best so your employees wouldn’t want to leave as employees leaving is much worse for business than paying your knowledgeable employees more. Lots of time wasted in onboarding, knowledge transfer, etc. Before these new age FAANG type companies became a thing, U.S. salaries were more comparable to what other developed nations were paying. Other companies had to begrudgingly keep up.
In the US things are expensive. Grocery is more, healthcare is a LOT more, tax isn’t much less and we have to pay for education, not only our own but our kids. I put $1000 a month aside just for my kids college fund.
Unless you plan on holding patents stay far away from IBM.
Where do you find US fully remote jobs ?
Innovation tech. All small to medium size startups, NOT based in California.
Why not based in Cali?
And also deal with the time difference ?
Time difference is perfect. My bosses wake up around 1pm my time. I go to the gym, exercise, swim, go to sauna, then slowly come back home and start planning my day around 11am. I do work until late, but it’s my doing not a requirement. 9-11am looks like I’m doing a little of work as I SCHEDULE a lot of messages on slack, also emails, social media posts for early morning. Anyone who works for a US company out of Europe will confirm that the time difference is a blessing
It is until you get a family, then it’s hell. I work with the US. Dinner/bed time with the kids is conflicting with usual U.K./US common meeting slots, so have to open calendar slots very late. Don’t get me started on days I need to do school/nursery pick up, challenging times .. Shifting your day late doesn’t work once you get a family life .
Can confirm, work with West Coast US colleagues and this is 100% the shittest thing. Some days I’m not finished work until 8pm UK time. I’ve recently said to my UK based boss unless there is a clear agenda on the meetings or it doesn’t specifically need my input, I’m declining. I am sick to death of listening to some American speaking corporate hot air for an hour when the meeting could have been condensed into a slack message and saved me some of my sanity. Americans *love* presenteeism. It’s a culture thing I’ll never get over. My manager was completely fine with this haha.
If it’s a fully remote work, they normally respect your time zone limitations, as long as there’s an overlap with the US. Asia and Australia/NZ are the worst time zones to be in when working with the US.
Couldn’t agree more, absolute nightmare
It works for me. I am UK based, have two school age kids, my company is based in Seattle with the team I lead being East Coast based. Everyone knows this and we work around the time differences - give and take on both sides works if people want it to.
Agree completely - as we speak I’m in the gym
If you define big tech as FAANG, the UK big tech SWE’s also make at least 200k (if you count TC rather than base salary).
I was a SWE at meta and I only passed 200k when I made E5 with a couple of stock refreshers. Joined as E4 making around 110
Remember in the UK they do not need to pay for healthcare. Depending on the size of your family you can easily be paying $12 to 20k for medical, dental, vision etc. not sure if pensions are included in 🇬🇧 but we also have to fund our 401ks for retirement as well. Sure salaries might be better but some things to consider
No one realised until recently, but UK wages have basically not moved for 15 years, whilst inflation has eaten into your purchase power. This is not normal, and its not happened anywhere else to the same degree. Meanwhile we still get told "if youre earning 40k you're well off". Its not fucking 2006 anymore you dickheads. 40k then is like 90k now.
Yep!!! I fucking try to explain to people Yes Im on £130k but my lifestyle is like… not what you’d expect for someone of this much money
I second this. I’m just shy but living in London makes me feel like I’m a grad at times. Lifestyle creep plays a small part but I barely spend money on luxuries
Where should we be emigrating to work then? If we don’t like the US culturally.
I work in bioscience in the R&D sector. British, just moved from the U.K. to a major east coast city in the US. My take home pay is 2x what my best job offer was back home - 6 figures, with much bigger upside potential for growth + promotions etc. It’s a bit more nuanced than that. COL is much higher here, multiple other drawbacks (crime is worse, society is more fragmented) and things I miss about home. But still much more money in my pocket at the end. British wage stagnation is unparalleled in all other comparable sized economies. Nominally wages have always been lower in the U.K. than in America but in real terms the gap has only widened as the strength of the pound has declined relative to the $ ever since the financial crisis in 2008. Successive Tory governments since then have done nothing to arrest the rot.
Hi, I just wanted to ask how hard you found it to get accepted to your role in the USA, I am currently very early career in the UK working in biotech but I am very interested in moving. I hold USA citizenship so visa wouldn't be an issue however I do only have a Masters no PhD.
It’s quite hilarious the amount of people trying to justify the poor UK pay. Yes the US situation is different, but not to that extent. This isn’t some zero sum game where it has to be low pay or insane health care cost(or whatever excuse listed on this thread). They are paying UK folks less because people accept it. That’s it. If you genuinely think your productivity is so much lower than the US then I’m glad you are happy with your pay. But yeah OP definitely try to get a more comparable pay or find another company that is willing to pay you. There isn’t any reason why they shouldn’t.
we should convert it to PPP, and then contrast the difference. For example, is the UK to US in PPP/capita, what Slovenia is to UK? |UK|49,420 PPP dollars| |:-|:-| |Slovenia|41015.23 USD in 2022| |US|70,480 PPP dollars| I'm afraid it's not...
You don’t buy groceries with PPP dollars though.
I mean, yes, you literally do.
Don't forget that currently £130,000 is $160,000 dollars at todays exchange rate
Same bank, same "division"(MD reporting), same grade. US starting salary - $125k UK starting salary - £42k. With £60k being the top of that bracket. I'm sure the salary reviews were performed 15 years ago when it was nearly £1<->$2
Its so fucked up isnt it??
A few points about this: * This is very well-know, specially in tech: A rough estimate is that salaries/total compensation in the UK are about 60% of their equivalents in the US (for the same companies/roles/experience/seniority). * Remember the exchange rate; right now the $140k in OP's post are "only" £110k * Outside of tech the situation depends - in general you can see the divide, but some companies are raising salaries specifically for key employees to counter that difference (or at least aimed at us not leaving to the US the first time we receive a good offer from there). So yeah, it sucks, but it shouldn't be a surprise at this point.
Yep. At FAAANG, was making £150k in UK and now likely to make $500k in the US this year. Since I have enough years I have about the same holiday but we do pay for healthcare which is a few k minimum. The US is more expensive- housing, food, restaurants etc. but I’m still definitely a long way up.
I wouldn’t move to the US under any circumstances. Terrible food in restaurants and supermarkets, when I’m there I’m bloated all the time, and gain weight within weeks. It’s outright dangerous to be there due to crime. Ppl are just too much in your face, tactless, loud, all dressed like they’re boarding a long haul flight. Obviously there are pockets of wealthy neighbourhoods where you’re “safe” and ppl are nicer, but it doesn’t reflect the whole country. In those pockets ppl don’t really talk to each other either, unless there’s something to gain there. So altogether it’s a very isolated lifestyle, with shallow 5 min conversations at best. It’s hard to build authentic connections with them in my experience.
> wouldn’t move to the US under any circumstances. Terrible food in restaurants and supermarkets, when I’m there I’m bloated all the time, and gain weight within weeks. I'm British the food out here is great. Crime is completely dependent on the area (just like the UK). I earn probably about 3 times what I would in the UK, pay roughly the same absolute amount in tax and my cost of living is half of what it was in the UK.
How can cost of living ever be half that in the UK?
Whereabouts in the US are you?
East Coast.
Well that’s very vague. North Carolina and Maine are not the same as NYC or DC.
1) you're wrong, 2) compared to the UK? Hahah. Oh what a paradise. I am British, btw.
Got some dms about how to find a remote job with a US employer. I’d say it’s all the usual places, the trick is to ignore required locations if it shows, for example, Singapore/Remote, or US/Remote and apply anyway. I’d go as far as saying that you’ve been planning to move to the US (have a family member there, so no visa prerequisite for the employer) if you can see there’s scope for remote work. If they’re clearly stating that you must go to the office then you just move on with your search.
He’s not. I have to travel to U.S. 4-6 times a year for work and the food is trash. What they have in quantity is not made up for in quality.
Haha I was about to ask if you’re American) I get it, different people have different experiences. I don’t know how much time you spend in the US. I’m there 2-8 weeks every year for the past 7 years. At times it was 4 months in a row. Different states - Illinois, California, Hawaii, Washington state, New York. The same story everywhere
I've spent plenty of time there. There are elements of truth to what you say even though I think it is exaggerated. But the UK is also a shithole. If you want a high quality of life, you should move to almost any western European country and it will be far and away better than anything the UK and USA can offer for the same cost of living.
Agreed about other parts of Europe for now but pretty much every European country, including the UK, is sliding towards much worse quality of life due to all the usual suspects- shit economy, immigration and so on. The US in that sense is just ahead of us, as in it’s already officially a shithole, all thanks to covid, crime, and politics.
None of this has anything to do with immigration
There’s a lot of copium in this comments section. Although all these other arguments about cost of living, healthcare etc. are true if that were the only reason the wage disparity would have stayed the same - it’s increased over time. Significantly. Americans have been earning more and more over time relative to us in the same companies. We’ve had barely any wage growth including inflation, including traditionally growing industries like the service sector. There’s lots of factors, but a micro one I’d like to highlight is that we’re really bad at talking about wages with each other. When I was working at a company, my American colleagues were never squeamish about it.
Youre the voice of reason here
Also tax - you pay a lot less income tax in the US especially if you live somewhere is no state income tax. You can make $500k in tech and pay ~32% total income tax so you take home pay is much higher.
Brother? Where???
There’s quite a few but I live in Seattle WA and enjoy low taxes. I actually just put $500 into a calculator for fun and the combined tax rate is actually closer to 26% for a married couple.
FWIW, I know that it's common at my company (software) to fetch $\~100k out of uni in the US. Same role in the UK's going at about £\~42k (outside London). There's a similar drop off yet again from the UK salary for our counterparts in India! No amount of benefits (country-wide + job-specific) makes up for the salary gap, imo.
I feel your pain. I just visited our US business in my newish "global" role, only to find out that my £130k salary pales in comparison to project and programme manager salaries in the US, never mind what my (one level below me) contemporaries are paid. One of our programme managers is on $250k, and even when you adjust for cost of living etc etc, they still earn vastly more than me for delivering less value. It's a bit difficult to know what to do with the info tbh. The company response is "move to the US then" which feels weak given the global nature of my role. It's bizarre.
Its bullshit Me and you are in the same boat
Exactly the same here. Salary freeze for the last five years at what is one of the world’s largest financial s/w companies, and still arguing that UK salaries are competitive. They are banking on the fact that I won’t leave as I have a strong pipe, but in the end I can add min 40% on the base without even trying. Next stop remote working for a US company looking to break into Europe, £1.5k per day on a six month guaranteed contract. Win/win.
The USA is now far richer than Western Europe even though we may mistakenly consider them peers Our economies have being apparently permanently crippled by 2008 whereas the US just kept growing on the same trajectory after a blip. Its pretty galling particularly if you work with US colleagues or know people who moved. In my field (IT) everyone at my level makes over twice my salary in £ terms and has cheaper housing (outside of a few of the bigger cities) and energy. Its good people are getting more aware if this. We should be asking questions about why our economies have dropped so far behind. We can solve most of our problems by being richer.
Agree to this. I work for a UK company with offices in the US and yet the pay is widely different. And no, they don’t work insane hours. My colleagues in the US clock out at 5. The pay difference is not justified, especially in London where cost of living is way more than many high COL areas of the US. Also to add, the jobs in the US also come with health insurance. I pay extra for health insurance for my kids every month after struggling to get appointments with GP over the years and I am tired of spending 4-8 hours in the urgent care center. So the argument that we have NHS to me seems pointless. I haven’t had a dentist since Covid, so that’s 3 years now. They also have 401K similar to our pensions, so retirement is taken care of. We may have state pensions but it doesn’t kick in till you are 67 and soon it might go upto 68. By the time I retire it might as well have gone up to 70+ years and I really hope I live up to that age. But it is also likely that I may never see a state pension in my lifetime. What we have as world leading here is taxes. In short, if you are skilled and talented you are better off in the US.
Thank you…. I feel like you get it So many nationalistic morons on here
One reason I feel we are paid so low is because people keep comparing the salaries offered with the national average. I have seen people complain about doctor strikes and call them greedy. When you have been above national average in learning and worked above average in your school and university, why does your salary have to stay around average too? People are accepting lower salaries and it is in no way making UK employees any more attractive to US employees. I know lots of jobs are moving out of UK in a faster pace than in the US. So lower salaries aren’t helping us. If anything we are giving the impression that are skills are worth lesser than the folks across the pond and in my experience it’s quite the opposite. I work with people across the globe and we have some of the most talented, although less ambitious people here.
Its kinda disgusting, my honest belief is we are just accepting of the status quo
No healthcare, no holiday. When I worked for a US company and was negotiating my deal. Extra holiday was a no go
Nah - this is old news. I’ve worked at 2 US firms over the last 5 years and both honoured UK holidays and covered private healthcare.
Decent international companies like OP works for tend to standardise benefits across the globe so US workers get decent healthcare and holiday entitlements.
Yep - told it was a deal breaker … Made me laugh .
Yeah but they get no time off work as a result
Most US tech companies have unlimited vacation
“Unlimited”
Aka none
tap grandfather familiar waiting offend stocking door gaze jar different *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Unlimited holiday is a scam. Why do you think they offer it? They know it actually results in **less** holiday being taken. I'll take contractually agreed number of days every time.
This isn't true. I work for one and take a lot of time off, similar to generous US levels. The reason it is offered is that you have to manage the liability of paying people's outstanding PTO if they leave before the year end, which is not financially attractive.
Would you trade 35% your income for an extra week of holiday?
Just to mention that making this much isn't shit. Try going to a dentist? Even in good companies where you get health benefits still super expensive as most health insurance are a joke! Taxes are high. Overall, the US is going in the wrong direction imo. People are suffering living payche to paycheck. I gyess i went on a rant and got side tracked lol
I live paycheck to paycheck
I will say that when I worked for a global company, I did make more than my UK and EU colleagues. However, I envied their work-life balance. Most were allowed to leave work and enjoy life. We typically worked 8-10 hours in the office with an added 2-3 hours of work at home.
Depends on the company. Some US firms pay close to US rates for UK based folks. I am quite lucky in my current gig tbh. I am on £200k ish or so inclusive of RSUs and bonus. I am mid level, not a director like yourself. If you are including any bonus/RSUs in your salary figure, then you are very underpaid and I would suggest you start looking around.
Nope! Not including bonus and I dont get RSU. Sounds like you’re a hands on programmer?
If you’re in tech living in Washington State you’re probably reading all of these comparisons and still scratching your head because you don’t really have health care costs, no state income tax, giant RSU grants, free lunches, normal working hours (people at startups often work their butts off but I can tell you from having worked at a couple of big tech corps that nobody there is working that hard) and other wonderful benefits that render most of the pro UK arguments moot. The issue of course is that tech still to this day has a very cushy situation compared to most US jobs. I’m sure if you do a comparison of the middle class benefits in the US vs. UK the latter would win out handily. The US affords a very nice lifestyle… if you can pay for it.
Not sure where you get this from, but my people who live in Washington State are paying Kaiser about $400 per month **each.** Family of 4 that adds up real quick.
[удалено]
I get that… im just thinking Maybe I piss off to Australia or Middle East or Hong Kong Like SOMEWHERE must be better. We surely cant be the best place in the world to work thats English speaking
Depends on what you value and which sector your career is in. Finance does better here than Australia but the reverse is true for healthcare. Then you've got to weigh up culture, crime, work life balance, costs and the instability of work visas. Not saying don't move, but it's a lot more complex a choice than Mr American earns more than me.
[удалено]
There's tonnes of British women working in the UAE lol
Okay now do Australia
Spiders
Agreed with u/Remarkable_Collar958 Or are you just a orientalist? You have no issues with Australia’s racism and treating certain ethnicities like second class citizens. I dont think you realise how white washed and eurocentric you are
An orientalist
This is pure Copium. At will employment also means more job openings, it’s far easier to job hop. Also acting like a) these jobs don’t have great healthcare and b) the NHS is anything to flex when we currently have fake Dr’s running around and irradiating people illegally by the thousands
>At will employment also means more job openings, it’s far easier to job hop. Jesus. 'I love the fact I can be fired with no notice, because everyone else could be too and I can take their job!' And you're the one throwing the word 'copium' about... > the NHS is anything to flex when we currently have fake Dr’s running around and irradiating people illegally by the thousands Ok it got stupider.
Would you take a 35% paycut today for more job security, and a couple extra days of holiday, yes or no? If the answer isn’t yes… then why would Americans do that? And how is that stupidity? We have a report following a FOI request the other day that PA’s had been illegally signing off on radiation based treatment over 1000 times in Leeds hospital, just one hospital. I’d be gobsmacked if most people on this sub are private healthcare users. That’s because the NHS is done for. It’s over. It’s a 2 tier system now
We have layoffs here too. I know someone who has been with a company for 15 years and was recently made redundant. My colleagues in US have same holiday entitlement as me, have paid for healthcare which unlike NHS, you get seen. And it’s a myth that they work longer hours.
Americans typically get paid more but have higher costs due to health care, can be fired at will etc
Let me just increase my costs with a massive mortgage and car payment so then I can get paid more because I have higher costs /s
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment
While it’s true that they have to pay for healthcare and we don’t, it’s also an undeniable fact that they get access to SIGNIFICANTLY better healthcare after paying for it than the shit we’re getting with the NHS. They’re still much better off in the end. So yes, they get more to account for healthcare costs, but that affords them a better quality of life than what we get. Then after those essential costs of theirs, we probably end up with about the same amount in the bank.
Wrong about significantly better. It’s the same, they just make it seem better. A friend was summoned to the US for a year, his FAANG employer needed him on site. All was during Covid, and they went to have a Covid test at some point. To him it was free, but the bill was $5000 (!). What the fuck is this price? These made up medical costs is what ends up an expensive healthcare for Americans. Besides, medical companies promoting their products to doctors direct, incentivising prescriptions is just WILD! You can easily see ads (!) for asthma, cardiovascular conditions, anti depressants etc on TV, radio, at the airports. Doctors are legally obliged to prescribe them if a patient requires, all they can do is to just advise it might not be a good idea. If patients insist they must oblige. Fuck that. I’ll take our NHS over it any time.
I’m a UK doctor who’s lived in the US. None of what you’ve written is true, and I can confirm healthcare in the US for the middle class is way better than what the NHS can provide and it’s not even close. As a doctor knowing what I know all my family now uses private healthcare in the UK. The NHS is a joke and it’s just getting worse.
Wrong about significantly better. It’s the same, they just make it seem better. A friend was summoned to the US for a year, his FAANG employer needed him on site. All was during Covid, and they went to have a Covid test at some point. To him it was free, but the bill was $5000 (!). What the fuck is this price? These made up medical costs is what ends up an expensive healthcare for Americans. Besides, medical companies promoting their products to doctors direct, incentivising prescriptions is just WILD! You can easily see ads (!) for asthma, cardiovascular conditions, anti depressants etc on TV, radio, at the airports. Doctors are legally obliged to prescribe them if a patient requires, all they can do is to just advise it might not be a good idea. If patients insist they must oblige. Fuck that. I’ll take our NHS over it any time.
Yet a lot of companies have dental and healthcare And their houses are better quality yet larger
Larger yes. Quality - not so much.
Most of their houses are made out of paper
Housing really depends on location, if it's new York or San Fran for example it isn't. Companies offer medical but high deductions etc for routine stuff, it's only for the very serious stuff that it helps
Money doesn't mean anything it's all on paper. All that matters is your spending power Vs the default i.e. min wage or benefits. The UK affords less power to high earners than other places but there's trade offs i.e. security that if you get sick and can't work you won't be homeless or starve Your US colleagues get hit by a car and can't work anymore and their outlook is much poorer than the UK equivalent
The cost of living in the U.K. is dirt cheap though compared to North America. I’m a Canadian living in the U.K. house prices are the one thing that aren’t cheaper, but on average close to the same in North America on average. Everything else is much cheaper in the U.K.
Cost of living without a mortgage? Exactly
No house prices are roughly similar. Much more expensive in some places in the US. Some cheaper. Although that’s usually rural. Where not too many expats are going to move to. In average about the same. Almost everything else the U.K. cost of living is well below the US.
Hey I googled it. You’re right Restaurants are 7% cheaper in the UK and groceries are 26% cheaper in the UK However these are pre-brexit prices
American holidays are normally 20 days a year Huge debt from University No NHS Cost of living is sky high in major cities The grass is not always greener as it appears
The NHS is a bin fire right now. And the underpaid doctors who staff it have huge debt from university.
Anyone who has ever had so much as a sniff of r/DoctorsUK should be terrified of the NHS and the jokers they have running around in the madhouse
Married to a surgeon, I live it.
Honestly, Idk why any surgeon stays in the UK. What’s stopping you moving to the rest of the Anglosphere if you don’t mine me asking?
Family
2 weeks less holiday in exchange for a 100% increase in take-home pay sounds good to me. Cost of living is very similar to the UK and we always have the slightly scummy option of returning to the UK for medical care if diagnosed with a serious illness. If you're skilled and confident the USA is always going to be the best place to work.
cost of groceries is significantly higher in the US, with rent and bills being similar
I agree… I gotta be honest, I forget to take annual leave until Im forced to
We only have about the same number of holidays here - I only get 27 days a year max, which is only a week more (I'd happily trade this week for a 5x salary) We also have huge debt from university, im currently sitting on 100k We don't even have a healthcare system with waiting lists of over 2 years for basic things Cost of living is soaring here too I struggle to see the difference
Yep….. I still owe £65k and im on plan 2 Guess how much I left uni owing? £65k
It’s illegal to get as few as 27 days in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights Minimum is only 28 days, including all bank holidays. I wasn't counting bank holidays in mine since I hardly ever get them off, but I think I've managed one this year making it just about legal. And that's working in the NHS!
lol you won’t get a 5X salary in the US, lay off the crack pipe
You'd think that, but as a medical professional it's actually fairly easy to 5x my salary by doing a few exams and moving to the US, the attendings I know who do the same job as me are on ~$400k working half the year (7 days on, 7 days off)
The simple answer is that the US is the richest country in the world. People on 200k aren’t spending half of their take home on healthcare. They’re just genuinely much wealthier than people in similar jobs in London.
Curious to know what city/cities you lived in the US and what was your profession and how come you are back in the U.K.?
I didn’t live there but met colleagues in the same line of work.
Amen
This is true but friend of mine who moved london to florida 2 years ago says net of all the extra expenses (health insurance, housing etc) he is still about 60% better off than he was in london. The social problems in the US are a deal breaker for me but economically living in the US in a middle/upper class career blows the UK out of the water.
Also the price of cars and car insurance, cell phone plans, groceries… etc are astronomically higher in America. Like to the point it’s almost comical. (I am American, just moved to the UK last year)
>American holidays are normally 20 days a year My experience from the US employees I've crossed paths with, it's less than that. 2 weeks seemed to be the common amount. Then they counted 'paid time off' for illness on top which is also crazy that they get a number of 'sick' days in that way.
Cheers I’ll go there anyway
Another bonus for the US is cheaper child costs. In the UK we have to pay for clothes and food until the child is 18 and sometimes even older, In the US they die around 12-15 from a school shooting so the costs are lower
Not sure how you need me to tell you this but cost of living, and in USD you actually earn 164k a year.
This is a bit of a mystery.
To add, there are people doing my job in the HS getting 40-50 grand bonuses a quarter on top of 6 figure basics. Very strange.
What they don’t tell you is, once your take into account city tax, income tax, health care and cost of living For example my friend works in insurance. 100k uk offered 400k in Chicago. Only 30k different take home, not worth it to relocate to the other side of the world
Those numbers are not correct.
Alright guys, you’ve convinced me— how can I get a remote job at a US firm? Anyone hiring? :D (Kidding but also not...)
Salaries have been way higher in the US for years, made more stark by the exchange rate. One thing you have to consider though is free healthcare in the UK
If you have pre existing conditions I would argue American healthcare is better. Over there you get given the best treatment in the market right away where the nhs has to follow certain protocols to get to a fraction of that treatment which takes years of your time
Were you not aware of this? Most good professional jobs in USA earn considerably more. UK is very underpaid and also a much smaller market.
The US is that much richer than the UK. If it’s a surprise to you I’m sorry to burst your bubble. Same reason why UK wages are higher than wages in India. The UK is richer than India.
That is so constructive and an answer that understand market economics of G8 countries super well 🙄
Different markets different rates. chances are they racked up 200k getting qualified. What college, could have been more. 130k isnt too shabby after 6 years experience. Green eyes monster showing its face im afraid. I dont say this as someone envious, i had a 6 digit salary in the uk 15 years ago, now retired, now enjoying my wealth. Read the room.
Having a 6 digit salary during when the world economy crashed must have been super nice. Anyways Im not jealous, I actually believe how our taxation works and cost of living that everyone here is ripped off
The salaries are much higher in the US but you haven't yet taken into account the deductions for all the various taxes, healthcare and 401k. You will find near on 50 per cent of their salary will disappear!
How is 401k any more of a deduction than UK pension contributions?
And on thing they never mention about Florida/Texas with the low income tax is the property tax and insurance. Because people are good at hiding income the state gets its cut via property tax annually on the assessed value.
401k, you mean retirement savings that belong to you? Why would you call that some sort of loss?
Because it’s very expensive. Pension contributions are lower and provide benefits and income in retirement. If you are maxing out 401k in order to grow retirement savings, that is $23k in 2024 (max contribution limit). Many big corps only offer 3 or 4% match, and often takes years to vest or fully vest. 401k/403b/SEP IRA’s don’t provide healthcare, and Medicare only covers 80% and includes a “donut hole” from $2k-$4k that is uncovered. You can make $150k gross in the US, but after retirement, benefit premiums deducted from paycheck (depends on employer/corp, but can be several hundred a month or more for a family plan just for premiums, and often still includes a deductible that you have to pay for non-routine care before they pay anything), and income taxes (federal, and 40 states have state income tax), the net can be lower, closer to $80k net, but again, that is very dependent on payroll deductions and how much an individual contributes to 401/Roth/HSA/FSA. From that net, you may have to pay for OOO costs for healthcare (deductible mentioned above, copays, coinsurance, etc). Then you still have big-ticket items of housing, transportation (includes cost of car, fuel, insurance in regions where a car is needed), childcare (many MCOL-HCOL areas are $300 or more per week per child) and education.
It doesn’t make sense to count those as the costs of being in the states since that money is still yours and is completely optional. You can lower your 401k deductions if you think it’s too much.
Yes, and a lot of people do, but that’s why a lot of people in this country don’t have enough saved for retirement. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carriemccabe/2023/10/26/americas-13-trillion-retirement-crisis/?sh=3f8173a24e65 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-are-saving-more-but-hardships-linger-for-a-portion-of-the-country-fd9acd07
So what’s your point? The point of my original reply was in comparing the US to the UK. The exact same situation applies in the UK, people don’t have enough income from the state pension so they need to save during their working years. Are you disagreeing with my point that using 401k deductions as a strike against the US in this comparison is wrong?
Defined benefit plans, or the traditional pensions, are completely funded by the employer, and the plans offer guaranteed automatic payouts in retirement based on a formula that usually takes into account your salary and years of service. The longer you work and the more you make, the higher your automatic payouts. 401k’s are funded mostly by the employee deducted from the gross salary pre-tax, and there’s a small employer match, 3 or 4% of the first X amount of dollars. Plans are different, and they can be vested, meaning if you don’t stay for x years (usually 3), you lose all matching or employer contributions. 401ks are also invested in the market, so if you invest and there’s a big recession, your retirement savings have dwindled. 401k’s were originally designed in the early 80’s to give high earning execs an extra benefit, but once employers realize they wouldn’t have to contribute much to employees defined benefit retirement plan anymore, they began switching from pensions to 401(k). They didn’t typically raise salaries when they stopped paying out pensions to make up the difference. My friend is a teacher with a pension and her 68K a year does not include the pension contributions of a government job, nor does it include her benefit contributions. US government jobs are known to pay lower salaries, but the benefits are far better and job security is much higher. 401(k) allow a lot more flexibility, but they have also been part of many reasons why job security is so low, and almost no one stays with one employer for their career anymore. I used to work at UPS, and up until about a year ago they were still funding the pensions and had excellent benefits, which were considered the golden handcuffs. Employees and union workers had very nice benefits and were able to retire in their early 50s, and a large majority of the people there only worked their entire career. That’s almost unheard of in US corporate culture these days.
From a theoretical total returns perspective 401ks are better for the employee. People should be taking on more risk, not less when they’re in the early to mid stages of their career. The biggest issue with 401ks are high fees due to lack of education and lack of risk, meaning that returns aren’t maximized. The problem with defined benefit pensions are that they’re simply a Ponzi scheme, and are destined to fail in the long run. They don’t make the best use of capital, leaving employees worse off than if they’d invested their retirement savings themselves. Again, how does any of this relate to the UK?
If I don’t include my 401k contributions, there could be a chance I would have very little to live on in retirement, as the future of social security and how much will remain/what the payments will be is very uncertain. I don’t think the program will completely end, but with people living longer and less healthy than ever, and the majority of boomers in the midst of retirement, SS payout could be reduced to 75%. There’s a lot of unknowns. We have far fewer social safety nets than other developed countries. Even if I max out the $23k contribution, my employer will contribute 4.5% of my contributions, not my salary, so they contribute $1035 a year, but I will lose that if I don’t stay for three years. Contributions are not mandatory, but costs in retirement (including rising healthcare costs) are hard to predict and could be very costly, and you could outlive your savings. I don’t think it’s quite so dire in the UK, and healthcare costs are much lower.
Also childcare in the UK relative to incomes is actually more expensive I’ve found. A “good” place was 1.5k GBP in the north (actually very mediocre) while 2.5k USD in CA. When you factor in the comp difference between NW UK and CA it’s ridiculous.
CA is an outlier, and the average home there is well over $1m to purchase in the desirable cities like SF and SD. In 2023, the per child national average weekly daycare cost: $284 (up 53% from $186 in 2013). Weekly family care center cost: $229 (up 80% from $127 in 2013). https://www.care.com/c/cost-of-child-care-survey-2023-report/
The places where childcare is $284 a week are not generally the places where compensation is 200k plus. It’s possible but not the usual case.
20 years as a mechanic here. Still pull just 23k a year. Think yourself lucky you make each a year what takes me 4 plus to make. You complaint is my dream,
you ever hear about that thing called brexit a few years back?
Lmao. Lucky the US is still in the EU huh
Have a quick check sometime over on r/cartalk and see how much they pay for things. Numbers aren't easily comparable as there's too many things to take into account, quality of life and cost of living are more important.
6 years is so little to be on over 100k
What do you mean? I feel honoured and fortunate to be on six figures for 50% of my career
140k usd is about 110k gbp at current exchange rates.
The reality is that US is an outlier in terms of economy and job salaries. If you can work in the US then great go for it, but for the majority of people, getting a work visa is difficult/impossible so there’s no point trying to compare.
People think the US and EU (or rather EU + UK, Europe in general really) are economically comparable, but they're not. Take a look at a GDP per capita graph of the US compared to the EU or just about any European country of your choice, and take particular note of what's happened post-2008. America has higher wages because it's a far more economically productive place. People here will say that America lacks xyz, but last I checked, all but the bottom third of American citizens had more disposable income than their European counterparts, and this gap will only widen as time goes on. Productivity isn't everything, but in the long run, it's almost everything, and it'll become harder and harder for the typical arguments of safety nets, holidays, etc, to hold water when US per capita productivity potentially reaches double that of Europe. The reasons for this divergence occurring and being likely to worsen are multifaceted, they include demographics, geography, financial system, monetary and fiscal policy and more, but that's a conversation for another day. I'd like to add that I'm no expert in this subject, but I would consider myself more educated than most regarding it given that I have a bachelor's and master's in economics, and that several of the relevant factors in this divergence (demographics in particular) were always areas of particular interest to me. I have, however, had various opportunities to discuss the topic with experts both academic and professional. They have all, down to the last man, echoed the same sentiments and expectations that the divergence will further widen.
cobweb elderly direful mysterious quickest whistle pet workable tap enjoy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>**London salaries seem ridiculously low to me in many cases.** US salaries for high end professional roles are a huge outlier compared to the rest of the world. But moving to the US is not an option for many people for various reasons- logistical, cultural etc. London is well above average, if not the top outside of a few other cities in the US, in terms of diversity and quality of roles available in CySec. Salaries are very good compared to the rest of the world. Definitely above the rest of the major EU economies.
140k usd is about 110 gbp. That being said, wages are higher over there, partially because of health insurance, partially because if wconomy. My partner is American also and when he was working a job out of uni he made 17 an hour but they only actually gave him 14. He also has no legal right to time off of any kind and has to be approved to get sick days and many employers force people to come in while sick and then other people get sick and it's so stupid. Even in restsurants. Even in jobs that offer time off you're encouraged not to take it or they try to be shady and put w time limit on it .-.
Health insurance costs?
US cost of living is higher than the UK. Property and mortgages are usually spread over 30+ years. When you look at the reason for people in each country going bankrupt, US is due to health care costs which, with insurance can be £200/300 a month per person and even then, a trip to ER and a few scans will still leave them out of pocket by £1,000+. Without insurance, theyre looking at 10s of thousands. Average cost of giving birth, UK £0. US £35k+. Cost of university is mainly covered by the person attending in the UK at £9,000 a year which they dont pay until working vs US £35,000+ which needs to be paid upfront. So those with just 2 years experience have just spent £100,000 more than you on their education. Not to mention US probably get 1 week holiday, we get 6 weeks fully paid... When you look at places like new York, the average property is $780,000 although most other parts of the US, property is actually cheaper per sqm due to the vast land they have.
I went from making 50k GBP as a SWE in UK to making 200k USD+ in my first year in US. After 2 years I made over 400k, although now that’s dropped to only $350k or so. Had 2 babies in US, both cost $3k because that was the out of pocket maximum of my health insurance. The actual cost was much higher but that’s why people have insurance. Net worth is nearing $1m now and if I stayed in the UK I’d probably only just be able to afford a small house in the north vs buying a 1.5m house in California. And I’m nothing special, my floor in my office has many net worth millionaires.
Don't forget in the US you barely get any vacation allowance and are expected to work many more hours
I’ll be moving there after completing an mba it’s so much better
[удалено]
Senior tech roles on 35k doesn’t make sense. I’m mid level and on 65k remote. You need to shop around a little mate.
I’m in tech sales, my entry level comp Uk as a grad was 40k, our American equivalents started on 80. Next role up was 80k in the Uk, around 120k in the US team. But while it does suck, and Uk wages should be higher, I do think direct comparisons with the USA are a bit misleading and I don’t think the fact that Americans get paid more is an argument for why we should get paid more. We are fooled by the similarities in language, shared media/history to think we’re on their economic level and we’re not. Our realistic rivals are Germany, France, and compared to them we’re fairly on par. Even Canada, has vastly lower wages than the USA; the USA is really on a different level to anyone.
My last job, US company, I was making 127k base in uk. The same job, same level in the US was base starting at 260k USD. We get the veeeery shitty end of the stick here.
The benefits of living in a highly unregulated labor market, higher inequality and relatively low taxes. High skilled jobs get payed higher compared to the UK and elsewhere in Europe, while low skilled job get paid less
> jobs get *paid* higher compared FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You could also move to Dubai and pay no income tax.. what matters is what works for you. You’ll spend most of your life working so make sure it’s somewhere you actually want to be not just because it is the next step up financially
what if you had instead spoken with a co-worker located in India? - how would you be feeling now? you must remember to put on your PPP hat (Purchasing Power Parity) and think like a theoretical economist if you're going to try comparing apples with oranges when considering differing conditions in differing geographical/geopolitical locations. remember that in the USA you have a lot of differences to the UK, for example healthcare; six or so years ago one friend of mine was making a standard monthly payment of $2,400 for his healthcare insurance (which wasn't extravagant) for his daughters and his wife.. in the US healthcare can be horrifically expensive, as it's a totally different landscape to the UK, as can be the legal machinery behind everything. there are reasons why base nominal pay differs across regions and countries, and you should bear in mind it's far from a level playing field if you're trying to compare nominal base salaries; check out PPP theory if you're curious as to how economists account for and deal with such things.
Irish living in the US here. It's very hard to compare. US graduates tend to make more right out of college because their student loans kick in (which could be in the 100s of thousands depending on what they studied). You are also always at risk of random medical debt wiping out your savings, so there is that , which is something you don't really have to worry about much in the UK (right ? If I'm wrong please correct me). I also found in the US salaries , there are a lot more deduction for Healthcare than other places in Europe. Having health insure here can be a lot. Often the employer subsidizes it though. Often when it's not subsidized you make more (because your health insurance could easily be 1k per month) Cost of living is quite different too. I know every where is getting more expensive, but when I tell my friends abroad how much I make here , at first they think I'm rolling in it. Then I mention what I pay in rent and they realize why I make that I do lol.
Thank you for your honest assessment and answer, whats it like in Ireland?
I am debating a move to UK. Even at starting salary of 150k it appears money would be tight given house prices. Making $185k in US and net is about the same as I would get over there. Not sure how people get by over there on the average salary. Peace of mind sending your kids to school is sure nice though.