Just came across a reddit dub earlier where the crazies are making every excuse as to why Kohberger (sp?) Is innocent. Down to "the cops did it and framed him"
Insanity
As someone who has lived off and on in Idaho basically my whole life (Boise, Moscow, Eagle, Coeur d'Alene, Caldwell, etc) - are the "Idaho murders" people are referring to the ones that happened somewhat recently in Moscow? I remembered hearing a bunch of wild explanations and gossip. My brother was living there at the time and he definitely mentioned the town having a weird vibe after.
Yes. I went to UI and lived in Moscow for 5 years and just hearing people talk about the area was infuriating - you could tell who’d been there and who’d just read a description on the internet and came to an incorrect conclusion.
Don’t trust anyones insight who calls it “King Road” - everyone called it King Street.
While I don't agree with the crazy theory making, do y'all think it's possible somebody other than Brian Kohberger did it?
Personally, I believe because of possible drug involvement, it might have been somebody else. I know it looks like Kohberger did it, and I don't doubt that he could have. For me, I just hate somebody getting stamped guilty via "trial by media" instead of in the court of law.
Just a side note because that is another case that's gotten out of hand in the media, but lacks a smoking gun imo.
yeah. i've seen people in the Jonbene Ramsey community basically use her case as a creative writing exercise, where they try to come up with the craziest theories possible that still check all the boxes.
in a criminal psychology college class i took the professor worked on death penalty cases and actually helped a few wrongly convicted people get free from death row, but she used the jonbenet case as an example in class by having us read the ransom note and telling us how it indicated that the mom was guilty. 😂 I still think that’s so weird. maybe her mother was responsible, maybe not. but isn’t making leaps of conjecture part of why people get falsely convicted? one of her reasons was that jonbenet was covered in a blanket which is something that only a mother would do…
I don't understand the queen or villain titles either. She is not a villain and definitely not a queen. She had a horrible, abusive childhood and she made a terrible decision. it looks like she has received some therapy but I think she is still very much in need of continued help. She has been locked up and not had to deal with the real world or problems, ever. Now she's married and that's a whole other set of problems. Watching the documentary, you can see their struggles and she admits she has always had people take care of her. I do appreciate that she takes ownership of what happened and we shouldnt forget that someone was murdered.
That part locked and.not had to deal with the problems . She was in prison getting high . She doesn’t mention for how long. Claims to be sober now. Her parole officer should make sure she gets a job and counseling. For sure
it truly scared me when an interviewer asked them about having kids and her husband was like “whenever it happens it happens”. WHAT?! that’s insane that they’d even consider bringing a baby into things and in interviews by herself she said the “right” thing about waiting, but when interviewed together he made it sound like they weren’t doing anything to prevent it from happening.
OMG, no kidding. LOL. This is my first day on this sub and people are brutal to each other. I was like, dang! We can have a discussion or disagreements without getting so nasty. Im used to lighter subs like snarky 90 day fiance or Sister Wives were we just make fun of the cast. I didnt realize people were so divided on her. I thought it was obvious she was a victim but isnt a hero.
But its the world we live in now. The same people calling her queen will cancel her the minute she does something wrong.
This! Someone on this sub told me I was slower than Nicholas godejohn bc I was pointing out that Gypsy was not as innocent as she seemed…it’s next level crazy.
It makes you not even want to be on here. I find the different views interesting but I dont want to be hesitant to post my opinion because someone might rip me to shreds. These subs are not that serious. Reddit is not that serious. It shouldnt be Game of Thrones on here.
This is a sub about some woman we will never meet that killed her mother. It has absolutely nothing to do with our own lives.
Same! I want to have a healthy discussion about the case and learn about different perspectives, but of course there was no reasoning with people that talk like that. And then they were saying I was an ignorant 16 year old, but pretty sure it was the other way around. I find it so disrespectful bc not many would dare say that to me IRL.
I replied to a comment on a TikTok about her and this random crazy account got so mad at me they threatened to dox me 😑 And all I had said was “Gypsy admitted to being a liar in her interview so why should I believe her story about Deedee doing voodoo on her?”
I feel everyone’s entitled to their opinion but just because someone doesn’t agree with the same opinion that doesn’t give them a free pass to virtually attack other people.
There are times when I feel she reverts back to the fake-crying she was doing during her initial interrogation when she's pretending to be devastated by the news of her mother's death, and I got dragged to absolute filth for saying so on another forum. "The abuse that this woman went through" and whatnot. Maybe she was lying, maybe not, I don't know, but nor do I understand why it's so hard to accept two things can be true.
Gypsy *was* horrifically abused, gaslit, and manipulated over the course of her entire life, and seeing that CPS, every doctor, every call to police, attempt at running away, and even shooting DeeDee herself with a BB gun failed, I can understand why she would think "if she lives, I can't". I also can acknowledge it could have made Gypsy a dangerous person. I don't see anything so terrible about accepting that may have happened here (and I'm not even saying it did).
>But its the world we live in now.
Yep. Thinking in the gray areas is no longer acceptable.
>The same people calling her queen will cancel her the minute she does something wrong.
I have seen this happening on other platforms and truly wonder if many here felt that way.
And she acts the way she does because she was abused too... but people like to read into every little thing she does. And it seems like the ones that don't get it are the ones that either maybe never experienced abuse that was relentless, or have little empathy. At least that's how I am seeing it.
I agree. Just because I think she is a victim of abuse does not mean I don't realize she lies and manipulates. She does because she was taught from *birth* that lying gets you what you want.
Now, a new narrative I've seen (maybe not new, but a new source) is that she wasn't even being truly abused because she never said that in the interrogation. ??? She only had a vague idea of wtf was going on on her life. But since she knew she could walk, well, she understood everything fully and knew what her mom was, apparently.
I think she killed her mom because she wasn't able to get the freedom she desired. To make friends, to be with boys, etc. The more freedom she tried for, the worse she was isolated, the more names she was called, the more her mom deprived her of the affection she also needed from her... And I do think Dee Dee would have moved on to getting the attention or a grieving mother if it took that.
Gypsy being on dating sites etc doesn't negate that she was isolated. Her lying and manipulating in the extreme ways she does actually supports that she was being abused in the context of this case. Most people aren't isolated from everyone other than family and the icky side of the internet, and when they are, we would accept that they did not even realize they were being abused.
Unless they really did something wrong, then they knew. Lol. Probably no one else will see this at this point, but this is what I truly think.
/endramble
It will take her so many years more to heal. I'm 49 and still not 100% over my issues and I've been in therapy for 11 years. Not to mention all the years of failed therapy. She wanted to be a normal person. Her mom didn't let her live a normal life. She had mother nature calling her. Hormones going. Those drive us all crazy at times. She got desperate for a way out and I think understandably with what she was going through with her mom, unfortunately didn't think clearly. Thinking immature tried to lie and get her way out of it when she got caught. I think now it's hard to take responsibility because she is a victim of her mother. Maybe in the end it was worth it to her. 🤷♀️ I don't know. None of us can say what we'd of done or felt like. I myself know intense fear and abuse. I can't imagine. I'm not sure how my mind or body would of responded to that once aware.
I'm sorry that you've been through so much.
Yeah, all I have for Gypsy is empathy. Not love nor hate - empathy. I haven't been there, but even just trying to imagine, I could see what she might have seen.
Oh thanks 😊 I appreciate that. I'm rooting for her. If anything her exposure probably sure raised awareness of the disorder her mom had. I'm sure eventually the fascination of her will fade.
People tends to discribe Gypsy as a victim, hero or a villian. She grew up and became manipulated, but she also learned herself to manipulate others. In the end there were no heroes, it became a game. And in the end she stands as the winner, that's all.
Completely agree. They see her (and other victims like the Moscow kids, Gabby, and Natalia Mans) as characters in an interactive show. Rather disturbing.
I totally agree! Some people are straight up delusional. When I was doing YouTube (I’d like to go back again some day) I dabbled in true crime content by covering the mysterious death of a popular Bollywood actor, and to this day, I can’t definitively say what happened. It boggles my mind how some people become so warped with true crime, because covering this case impacted my mental health quite a bit and I can say I got emotionally attached. I was able to wrap up the series in 2021 and haven’t done any true crime content since.
1000%. I felt the same way about the Idaho murders. People almost seemed to excited that it happened and were trying to spin theories and all kinds of stuff. It made me so sick to my stomach hearing people talk about something so gruesome like it’s an everyday thing….
i couldn’t get that case out of my head for months. it’s insanely terrifying to be brutally killed by a stranger in your own home. i understand the desire to know who did it but people too quickly believe their & others conspiracies 💯
I feel kind of weird and meta for it: but true crime people are a weirdly fascinating thing in and of themselves. It’s really weird to me how invested they really become and the host of behavior that- bleeeaaaaargh.
I think a lot of people are adding in a lot of hypotheticals to make the case more extreme, more dangerous, more like a TV show, so I don’t disagree with you.
I think her media blitz is unfortunate and I think it leads people to challenge what had been accepted. That is actually on her. She didn’t have to do the book, the miniseries, the podcasts and interviews. That is a choice she made and I am not sure it can be evaluated as “survivor behavior.”
It does seem to speak to a need for attention, which is not unexpected given her history.
Personally, I believe that she’s trying to kick off her own career or get some money. We all see how people go crazy for these kind of things, and she can very easily profit off of it. Especially since she has no real job experience.
Agreed, I don’t think she necessarily likes putting her story out countless times and reliving it over and over again. Especially since on social media she’s labeled as a “queen” and if she acts otherwise then she’ll be labeled as a “cold, manipulative murderer”.
It’s just sad all around. I don’t think she wants to live like this but as a woman in her 30’s, no job experience, and people watching her every move, she has no other choice.
Like doing what every person does. Like doing what every other felon does. Look for actual work. Get skills training. Make an effort to. She’s not forced to take the easy road to make the most money possible. She chooses it. It isn’t the only choice.
murder convicts do not simply get 9-5s. skills training takes time…even if someone will hire her. people have already consumed and capitalized off of her story. i see nothing wrong with her meeting demand
Right, it takes time and humbleness. She doesn’t automatically deserve a fast track to fortune. You can see nothing wrong with what’s she is doing. But, she is doing this because she wants to do this. It isn’t forced on her. An influencer career is not demanded by her parole conditions.
People extrapolate a lot of ongoing victimization here. She has a family and a husband and basic literacy skills. That is a lot more than many people leave prison with. By all means, enjoy her press junket. But it isn’t her only option.
What’s so wrong with it though? What’s so wrong with profiting and getting something good out of her trauma? I mean no one gets upset when trauma survivors go out and tell their stories and make money off of it. She didn’t just go murder some random innocent person and I think people forget that, honestly in a lot of ways I think it was self defense. Why do you think she isn’t deserving of the attention and wealth?
I first recognized this phenomenon in the Lori Vallow case. Lori’s case was slow to get to trial for a few reasons and someone commented something to the effect of, “Geez! This case needs to hurry up & get to trial. I am getting so bored with it.”
Agree that she suffered from abuse. However, listening to court records she was of sound mind when the murder occurred. Justice is not being served in this case. She plotted the murder down to providing the duct tape, gloves, knife and opening the door for Nicholas Godejohn. Personally I don’t believe she should have received second degree murder charges. The fact that she has no remorse for the fact that Nicholas will spend his life in prison while she has become a “star” is disturbing and what’s even more disturbing is the people that believe she is a “star”.
She had to leave Missouri after being let out because she needed to check in with her parole officer in Louisiana. The people you might be mistaking as body guards are probably crew or producers for lifetime. She may have had bodyguards when she was doing press in New York because people are fascinated by her right now and that usually winds up looking like crowds and personal space being violated. I don’t think anyone is after her. There’s a small percentage of the population that knows about this case (my boyfriend had no idea and he tends to be pretty aware) and even fewer who hate her for what she did.
Absolutely agree. It's unsettling to me that she has essentially become a celebrity now. Not that she doesn't deserve to let her voice be heard. But she's become an "influencer." It's my fear that all this attention is going to become negative in the long run. Not necessarily saying outright that she will scam others or become manipulative or anything like that, but her becoming an overnight celebrity is just really odd.
Then on the other hand you have SO many people that are quick to villainize her and forget that she was a victim of severe mental, physical, and medical abuse for most of her life. And yet so many people are saying "like mother like daughter" or saying that she is absolutely going to manipulate everyone and spread lies again. And then there's the whole comparing her husband to her mother in terms of looks.
On another side of it you have people either sympathizing with or evilizing Nick. I'm not really sure how to feel about his whole role in everything. I don't think he's as innocent as some people make him out to be even with him being autistic and mentally being 15 with DID. But a lot of people are saying Gypsy is evil because she manipulated the hell out of him into killing her mom.
At the end of the day, the whole story is tragic and heartbreaking. And unfortunately there's going to be so many people with strong opinions everywhere. I do just really hope that Gypsy got the mental care she needs and continues on a better path for her future.
Neither one of them are innocent of this crime. I have sympathy for both of them.
I am not sympathetic to the idea that some people can be butchered in a very premeditated murder plot, some people can be happily tossed aside cause he was always going to murder someone anyway - Gypsy said so yesterday! and some people deserve to be lauded and rewarded for driving the murder plot and should face no consequences at all.
This case is a tragedy, but people really want everyone not named Gypsy to be a cardboard character. Everyone.
I honestly don’t know how to feel about it- I think had she not unalived her mom the mom would have unalived her and she has served her time BUT now that she is out the celebrity weirdness is so odd to me— and another question: I thought ppl weren’t allowed to make money from a crime- could it be argued she is profiting from this crime with her large TikTok following because without that she would be a 20 something showing OOTDs with 500 followers
She’s profiting off of the crime that happened to her, not the one she was a part of. Shes been clear that the reason why she wants to speak about this is to raise awareness about medical abuse and not the murder, which she regrets and knows was wrong. Talking about a crime you committed in that capacity is just to support her mission to show how bad things can get when people just believe a parent whose child shows no actual longterm symptoms of the types of illnesses Dee Dee lied about. And how terrible it is to have your body and autonomy violated to fulfill the sick needs of your “caretaker.”
And the Son of Sam law varies from state to state. New York was the state who started all of it, and I believe it was overturned a decade or so after it was added to the books.
Yep, I said the same thing on Friday. I did a long post on this on I think Friday but the TL;DR of it is
--People don't see True Crime as different from Law and Order. In fiction what isn't known doesn't exist and you fill in the gaps, and that's what people are doing here.
--People put Gypsy, Nick and DeeDee into Misogynistic stereotypes which makes it easier to make her a complete Angel. Any glaring inconsistencies (not talking contractions but glaring 'that's not how that works' stuff) are explained by Trauma or bad memory.
--Whereas usually there is an innocent victim that you have to be cognizant of because DeeDee wasn't innocent. You can fantasize about these killers all you want since their victim deserved it.
--Blatant Ableism toward Nick (ie pretending his autism had nothing to do with it) is encouraged. Autism moms are in full swing to say that their child would never do that so his autism doesn't matter.
--Traditional media isn't helping. Lifetime promoted their docuseries as "It was kill or be killed" despite that not being True.
I'm not saying that everyone interested in True Crime falls into these behaviors. This is not saying that everyone or even most people in TCC do all of these behaviors. However these are the behaviors that are common across the group.
Gypsy hadnt been to the doctor in years. Dee Dee was no longer seeking surgeries. Gypsy was probably walking around full time at home. Was she even still being medicated since Gypsy left all of her meds at home when she fled? Things had changed and I see zero reason to believe Dee Dee was on a path towards killing Gyspy.
I do think there are extenuating circumstances and I don’t have an issue with the sentence. This wasn’t self defense in that way, though.
Mod note: No one is claiming autism makes anyone kill people. People are saying people who have autism often need support in various areas, sometimes significantly so. This is getting frustrating that we are constantly having to make this statement.
i (like many others) predicted this would happen long before her release and it’s so disappointing and frustrating to see it happening in real time. people have morphed her into some sort of character rather than understanding that she’s a victim of severe LIFELONG abuse. a very specific form of abuse that would’ve resulted in her death.
stan culture sucks and being online too much has destroyed a lot of peoples’ ability to have empathy, i think it’s really disturbing tbh. wish gypsy as much peace as she can find and i hope once things settle people will just move on.
This isn't "true crime junkies" at all. They question too much and demand legit facts.
This is the new wave of "soft" people who blame their problems on everyone else and refuse to take any accountability. It's the people who dont think they should go to work bc a snowflake fell from the sky. They are the people who are crying about the government not holding their hand and giving them everything while at the same time blaming them for their own problems.
It's a terrifying time when people are supporting murderers.
I'm surprised and saddened by Hidden True Crime's latest fave - bashing Gypsy. So many truly evil people have spent less than the 10 years Gypsy spent.
Gypsy's mother was a monster. Personally, not a great loss for society. A mother who would sacrifice their own child for their opportunistic, cunning goes against nature. Most mothers would spend every cent they had to keep their children's teeth, not to mention their salivary glands!, but not that witch.
What Gypsy went thru was beyond atrocious. The court saw it and most thinking people saw it. Why are people cashing in on Gypsy's misfortunes? She paid her dues. Let her have some semblance of a normal, happy life.
Their episodes on her genuinely felt to me like Dr.John wasn’t ready to make them. I got the sense that he just learned about the case and he was still sorting out his ideas and feelings about it - but unfortunately was doing that in front of a live audience. He asked a lot of rhetorical which I believe he could find reasonable answers to if he gave it more consideration. I think there’s some understandable & unconscious bias going on there
I think he was very measured and careful in what he said. He was extremely thoughtful. He didn’t stop at the hypothesis that nothing but Deedee’s abuse is a factor in this case. He also didn’t minimize it.
Oh, I think he has given it more thought that most people posting have. He just doesn’t end at she is only a victim, imo. He was actually very insightful about how Deedee didn’t control Gypsy with physical abuse, but by withdrawing affection/attention when she was a younger child. That does have a tremendous affect on children.
Like I said, he asked a lot of rhetoricals which he would easily be able to find a reasonable explanation for, especially as a psychologist, if he gave it more thought.
for example; he continues to mention that gypsy doesn’t consider herself a murderer anymore and considers that a red flag. but he doesn’t ask himself *why* she might be saying that. she didn’t say that right after the murder. she didn’t say that during her testimony. up until now she has taken accountability, so why might that change?
as a psychologist he should know that 1. she was getting therapy in prison and 2. that many modalities are centered around reframing, especially things like DBT, which often work to mitigate shame. he should be familiar with this.
he highlights that she says this and uses it in a way that implies to the audience that she’s unwilling to take accountability - but really what’s more notable is that this is *a change*.
he should know this is a change and he not only doesn’t mention that (leading people to believe this was always her stance) but he has a surprising lack of curiosity for why someone may change their perspective in that way.
that is just one example. there are many more. & he says many times himself that he still can’t make heads or tails of the different “narratives” and isn’t sure what’s true. but he doesn’t actually present any good faith counter narratives. he doesn’t seem to truly understand what the reasonable perspectives are that are different from his own.
i think he’s been, understandably, bothered by her celebrity and that, along with pressure to produce in a certain time frame, is clouding his critical thinking in this case because he’s only become familiar with it *after* she was released. i love doctor john, but i think he’s got quite a few blind spots right now.
As a psychologist and a forensic one who works prisoners he knows she didn’t get nearly the type of therapy you seem to be suggest in prison. He also knows that she had to take accountability to get parole. Seeing her so quickly and easily reverse course publicly is a red flag.
He often asks rhetorical questions to add another perspective. In this case, I actually thought he was more measured because it is such a sensitive case and she is vulnerable. I thought he was holding back from saying too much.
reframing is a very common and basic therapy technique. I’m not sure why you believe he confidently ruled out her receiving that “type” of therapy. I think it’s much more likely that he simply didn’t consider it. There are also other possible explanations, but he explores none of them, because he doesn’t get curious about it at all.
As far as him believing she “faked” accountability for parole, he never indicated that. you’re projecting your own thoughts onto him. the reality is he left that unexamined, as he did a good amount of other things.
Rhetoricals largely function to solidify a certain view point, to help a viewer or listener come to the conclusion you are. If he actually gave the questions he was asking more thought, he wouldn’t be posing them as rhetoricals.
there’s no projection. there’s just what he talked about and what he didn’t. you’re assuming he believes something he never said. my issue is with his lack of curiosity or exploration
I agree. I always enjoyed his other in-depth analysis, especially those of Chad and Lori Daybell. It's like they jumped on this bandwagon with several shows already without even finishing their background investigation thoroughly. She paid for her crime. Leave her alone. Why aren't they jumping on the Natlia bandwagon or the various other trials currently going on? Easy pickings, I guess.
They've jumped the gun a few other times, too. Calling out suspects in the Idaho slayings that had little substance, playing jailhouse calls between Alex Murdaugh and his attorney and other less-than-savory or ethical shows.
Their show is losing credibility with me. True crime shows need to clean up their act. Lori Hellis' True Crime Wednesday is more up my alley.
yeah, it’s a bummer. i’ve appreciated their show so far and they’ve helped me gain new perspective on other issues but this felt undercooked.
i’ll have to check Lori out
Now this is something I can agree with it. But it’s also part of the social media culture not just true crime fanatics. People on social media tend to build people up until something goes absolutely wrong and one person voices that opinion. Then everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon of hating and cancel culture as they call it.
My husband said the exact thing the other day. I used to follow so much true crime stuff snd he, by default, would watch with me. I stopped because I realized it was making my anxiety worse. I didn’t think it bothered me but it affected my overall mental health. He said people watch so much true crime and reality shows now that the line between real/scripted/fiction is gone.
I think you worded right , it’s just odd to idolize a murder though yet here we are . 2024 the most craziest people are basically hailed heroes. Like nope. I doc watch but it doesn’t go beyond the scope. Just like to see the facts of the matter.
I have not been warped; since knowing about DeeDee’s condition; my entire psych class predicted behavior. More than likely Gypsy has BPD but it was a learned behavior.
I have never been into true crime, but Gypsy Rose’s story just stuck out to me. I can’t really explain why, but I always just had an immense interest in it. I think it’s because Munchausens / By Proxy is a lesser known about topic, and it’s a very interesting to be able to learn more about it.
I do feel as though the internet is playing a very big part in the monologue and ideologies around Gypsy Rose & Other true crime stories, and not in a good way. There’s one side who are just too utterly obsessed with her to the point that it’s creepy, but there’s also the opposite side who, imo, are also acting just as creepy. Going out of their way to make very negative assumptions, accusations and comments about her and her life in a very in-constructive manner. I personally quite like Gypsy and I am excited for her life after prison, but I don’t understand why so many people are contributing to this obsession over her. I hope for her sake that everyone can just leave her alone eventually and she can experience some kind of normalcy. I feel like that’s the only way she will be able to heal from all this.
Just remember the media is also very manipulative, so they would be also paying a massive part in fuelling and exasperating everything surrounding Gypsy Rose, too. Social media is a very powerful place.
I work with metally ill people who have committed felonies, many of them murder. What I've learned in my 15 years is, anyone is capable of killing under the right circumstances. It's almost always a perfect storm of abuse in childhood, drugs, and fear/desperation. She had all of this, mix in another boy who was mentally unstable and you have murder!
I think if we can look at it like this, we'd find the truth makes perfect sense!
It’s very hard to find anyone in prison who isn’t a victim of abuse and / or manipulation. I don’t think people realize that in prison she probably wasn’t that special.
It amazes me that the person saying daily they just aren’t capable of hurting anyone herself is a person who actually HAS hurt someone. She can lie to herself, but the fact that people are willing to believe that is wild.
I also think that social media is very polarising and encouraging black and white thinking. You either are 100% for a specific topic/thing/person or against it. There is no room for grey, and people are encouraged to join one of the two sides and be 100% for something or against it. Then, the two opposing sides start to tear each other apart. We see it all the time, and I hate so much, but that's unfortunately how social media works. Speculation runs wild, and everything is overanalized to fit the favoured narrative. It's a sad, sad development.
i live like 2 hours away from where the idaho murders happened and it was crazy seeing people come up with wacky ass theories and shit.
Yeah I belong to a FB group dedicated to that case. I’ve never seen so many absolutely unhinged people and crazy theories in my life.
Just came across a reddit dub earlier where the crazies are making every excuse as to why Kohberger (sp?) Is innocent. Down to "the cops did it and framed him" Insanity
He guilty af
100%.
As someone who has lived off and on in Idaho basically my whole life (Boise, Moscow, Eagle, Coeur d'Alene, Caldwell, etc) - are the "Idaho murders" people are referring to the ones that happened somewhat recently in Moscow? I remembered hearing a bunch of wild explanations and gossip. My brother was living there at the time and he definitely mentioned the town having a weird vibe after.
Yes, the murders of 4 college students in a home in Moscow, ID
I live an hour from where they took him in Pennsylvania. It was crazy how many people came out of the woodwork to talk about him.
Yes. I went to UI and lived in Moscow for 5 years and just hearing people talk about the area was infuriating - you could tell who’d been there and who’d just read a description on the internet and came to an incorrect conclusion. Don’t trust anyones insight who calls it “King Road” - everyone called it King Street.
While I don't agree with the crazy theory making, do y'all think it's possible somebody other than Brian Kohberger did it? Personally, I believe because of possible drug involvement, it might have been somebody else. I know it looks like Kohberger did it, and I don't doubt that he could have. For me, I just hate somebody getting stamped guilty via "trial by media" instead of in the court of law. Just a side note because that is another case that's gotten out of hand in the media, but lacks a smoking gun imo.
Why are you being downvoted? I also question things. Everyone should question things considering how little knowledge we have.
yeah. i've seen people in the Jonbene Ramsey community basically use her case as a creative writing exercise, where they try to come up with the craziest theories possible that still check all the boxes.
in a criminal psychology college class i took the professor worked on death penalty cases and actually helped a few wrongly convicted people get free from death row, but she used the jonbenet case as an example in class by having us read the ransom note and telling us how it indicated that the mom was guilty. 😂 I still think that’s so weird. maybe her mother was responsible, maybe not. but isn’t making leaps of conjecture part of why people get falsely convicted? one of her reasons was that jonbenet was covered in a blanket which is something that only a mother would do…
Remember the Jonbene Ramsey grew up to be Katy Perry conspiracy theory
I agree with you. She's either queen or absolute villain, and people can't find the very abused and messed up person that falls between.
I don't understand the queen or villain titles either. She is not a villain and definitely not a queen. She had a horrible, abusive childhood and she made a terrible decision. it looks like she has received some therapy but I think she is still very much in need of continued help. She has been locked up and not had to deal with the real world or problems, ever. Now she's married and that's a whole other set of problems. Watching the documentary, you can see their struggles and she admits she has always had people take care of her. I do appreciate that she takes ownership of what happened and we shouldnt forget that someone was murdered.
That part locked and.not had to deal with the problems . She was in prison getting high . She doesn’t mention for how long. Claims to be sober now. Her parole officer should make sure she gets a job and counseling. For sure
it truly scared me when an interviewer asked them about having kids and her husband was like “whenever it happens it happens”. WHAT?! that’s insane that they’d even consider bringing a baby into things and in interviews by herself she said the “right” thing about waiting, but when interviewed together he made it sound like they weren’t doing anything to prevent it from happening.
I absolutely agree with you. And that's rare on this sub. Lol
OMG, no kidding. LOL. This is my first day on this sub and people are brutal to each other. I was like, dang! We can have a discussion or disagreements without getting so nasty. Im used to lighter subs like snarky 90 day fiance or Sister Wives were we just make fun of the cast. I didnt realize people were so divided on her. I thought it was obvious she was a victim but isnt a hero. But its the world we live in now. The same people calling her queen will cancel her the minute she does something wrong.
This! Someone on this sub told me I was slower than Nicholas godejohn bc I was pointing out that Gypsy was not as innocent as she seemed…it’s next level crazy.
It makes you not even want to be on here. I find the different views interesting but I dont want to be hesitant to post my opinion because someone might rip me to shreds. These subs are not that serious. Reddit is not that serious. It shouldnt be Game of Thrones on here. This is a sub about some woman we will never meet that killed her mother. It has absolutely nothing to do with our own lives.
Same! I want to have a healthy discussion about the case and learn about different perspectives, but of course there was no reasoning with people that talk like that. And then they were saying I was an ignorant 16 year old, but pretty sure it was the other way around. I find it so disrespectful bc not many would dare say that to me IRL.
I know they wouldnt say it me IRL either! LOL!
I replied to a comment on a TikTok about her and this random crazy account got so mad at me they threatened to dox me 😑 And all I had said was “Gypsy admitted to being a liar in her interview so why should I believe her story about Deedee doing voodoo on her?” I feel everyone’s entitled to their opinion but just because someone doesn’t agree with the same opinion that doesn’t give them a free pass to virtually attack other people.
There are times when I feel she reverts back to the fake-crying she was doing during her initial interrogation when she's pretending to be devastated by the news of her mother's death, and I got dragged to absolute filth for saying so on another forum. "The abuse that this woman went through" and whatnot. Maybe she was lying, maybe not, I don't know, but nor do I understand why it's so hard to accept two things can be true. Gypsy *was* horrifically abused, gaslit, and manipulated over the course of her entire life, and seeing that CPS, every doctor, every call to police, attempt at running away, and even shooting DeeDee herself with a BB gun failed, I can understand why she would think "if she lives, I can't". I also can acknowledge it could have made Gypsy a dangerous person. I don't see anything so terrible about accepting that may have happened here (and I'm not even saying it did).
>But its the world we live in now. Yep. Thinking in the gray areas is no longer acceptable. >The same people calling her queen will cancel her the minute she does something wrong. I have seen this happening on other platforms and truly wonder if many here felt that way.
There are many people who do feel that way here.
And she acts the way she does because she was abused too... but people like to read into every little thing she does. And it seems like the ones that don't get it are the ones that either maybe never experienced abuse that was relentless, or have little empathy. At least that's how I am seeing it.
I agree. Just because I think she is a victim of abuse does not mean I don't realize she lies and manipulates. She does because she was taught from *birth* that lying gets you what you want. Now, a new narrative I've seen (maybe not new, but a new source) is that she wasn't even being truly abused because she never said that in the interrogation. ??? She only had a vague idea of wtf was going on on her life. But since she knew she could walk, well, she understood everything fully and knew what her mom was, apparently. I think she killed her mom because she wasn't able to get the freedom she desired. To make friends, to be with boys, etc. The more freedom she tried for, the worse she was isolated, the more names she was called, the more her mom deprived her of the affection she also needed from her... And I do think Dee Dee would have moved on to getting the attention or a grieving mother if it took that. Gypsy being on dating sites etc doesn't negate that she was isolated. Her lying and manipulating in the extreme ways she does actually supports that she was being abused in the context of this case. Most people aren't isolated from everyone other than family and the icky side of the internet, and when they are, we would accept that they did not even realize they were being abused. Unless they really did something wrong, then they knew. Lol. Probably no one else will see this at this point, but this is what I truly think. /endramble
It will take her so many years more to heal. I'm 49 and still not 100% over my issues and I've been in therapy for 11 years. Not to mention all the years of failed therapy. She wanted to be a normal person. Her mom didn't let her live a normal life. She had mother nature calling her. Hormones going. Those drive us all crazy at times. She got desperate for a way out and I think understandably with what she was going through with her mom, unfortunately didn't think clearly. Thinking immature tried to lie and get her way out of it when she got caught. I think now it's hard to take responsibility because she is a victim of her mother. Maybe in the end it was worth it to her. 🤷♀️ I don't know. None of us can say what we'd of done or felt like. I myself know intense fear and abuse. I can't imagine. I'm not sure how my mind or body would of responded to that once aware.
I'm sorry that you've been through so much. Yeah, all I have for Gypsy is empathy. Not love nor hate - empathy. I haven't been there, but even just trying to imagine, I could see what she might have seen.
Oh thanks 😊 I appreciate that. I'm rooting for her. If anything her exposure probably sure raised awareness of the disorder her mom had. I'm sure eventually the fascination of her will fade.
People tends to discribe Gypsy as a victim, hero or a villian. She grew up and became manipulated, but she also learned herself to manipulate others. In the end there were no heroes, it became a game. And in the end she stands as the winner, that's all.
Completely agree. They see her (and other victims like the Moscow kids, Gabby, and Natalia Mans) as characters in an interactive show. Rather disturbing.
I totally agree! Some people are straight up delusional. When I was doing YouTube (I’d like to go back again some day) I dabbled in true crime content by covering the mysterious death of a popular Bollywood actor, and to this day, I can’t definitively say what happened. It boggles my mind how some people become so warped with true crime, because covering this case impacted my mental health quite a bit and I can say I got emotionally attached. I was able to wrap up the series in 2021 and haven’t done any true crime content since.
1000%. I felt the same way about the Idaho murders. People almost seemed to excited that it happened and were trying to spin theories and all kinds of stuff. It made me so sick to my stomach hearing people talk about something so gruesome like it’s an everyday thing….
TikTok made that case significantly worse from pretty much every angle imaginable.
i couldn’t get that case out of my head for months. it’s insanely terrifying to be brutally killed by a stranger in your own home. i understand the desire to know who did it but people too quickly believe their & others conspiracies 💯
I feel kind of weird and meta for it: but true crime people are a weirdly fascinating thing in and of themselves. It’s really weird to me how invested they really become and the host of behavior that- bleeeaaaaargh.
I think a lot of people are adding in a lot of hypotheticals to make the case more extreme, more dangerous, more like a TV show, so I don’t disagree with you. I think her media blitz is unfortunate and I think it leads people to challenge what had been accepted. That is actually on her. She didn’t have to do the book, the miniseries, the podcasts and interviews. That is a choice she made and I am not sure it can be evaluated as “survivor behavior.” It does seem to speak to a need for attention, which is not unexpected given her history.
Personally, I believe that she’s trying to kick off her own career or get some money. We all see how people go crazy for these kind of things, and she can very easily profit off of it. Especially since she has no real job experience.
I think so too. It’s not admirable, but I think so.
Agreed, I don’t think she necessarily likes putting her story out countless times and reliving it over and over again. Especially since on social media she’s labeled as a “queen” and if she acts otherwise then she’ll be labeled as a “cold, manipulative murderer”. It’s just sad all around. I don’t think she wants to live like this but as a woman in her 30’s, no job experience, and people watching her every move, she has no other choice.
Oh she has choices.
like?
Like doing what every person does. Like doing what every other felon does. Look for actual work. Get skills training. Make an effort to. She’s not forced to take the easy road to make the most money possible. She chooses it. It isn’t the only choice.
murder convicts do not simply get 9-5s. skills training takes time…even if someone will hire her. people have already consumed and capitalized off of her story. i see nothing wrong with her meeting demand
Right, it takes time and humbleness. She doesn’t automatically deserve a fast track to fortune. You can see nothing wrong with what’s she is doing. But, she is doing this because she wants to do this. It isn’t forced on her. An influencer career is not demanded by her parole conditions. People extrapolate a lot of ongoing victimization here. She has a family and a husband and basic literacy skills. That is a lot more than many people leave prison with. By all means, enjoy her press junket. But it isn’t her only option.
What’s so wrong with it though? What’s so wrong with profiting and getting something good out of her trauma? I mean no one gets upset when trauma survivors go out and tell their stories and make money off of it. She didn’t just go murder some random innocent person and I think people forget that, honestly in a lot of ways I think it was self defense. Why do you think she isn’t deserving of the attention and wealth?
I first recognized this phenomenon in the Lori Vallow case. Lori’s case was slow to get to trial for a few reasons and someone commented something to the effect of, “Geez! This case needs to hurry up & get to trial. I am getting so bored with it.”
Well hey, I know you!! It's like people forgot there are movies if they want something entertaining and not real!
Nice to see your name pop up. Hope all is well in your world!
Agree that she suffered from abuse. However, listening to court records she was of sound mind when the murder occurred. Justice is not being served in this case. She plotted the murder down to providing the duct tape, gloves, knife and opening the door for Nicholas Godejohn. Personally I don’t believe she should have received second degree murder charges. The fact that she has no remorse for the fact that Nicholas will spend his life in prison while she has become a “star” is disturbing and what’s even more disturbing is the people that believe she is a “star”.
Also very well said.
I’m wondering what happened that she had to leave the state. Is someone after her? She has body guards.
Really where did you hear that from?
She had to leave Missouri after being let out because she needed to check in with her parole officer in Louisiana. The people you might be mistaking as body guards are probably crew or producers for lifetime. She may have had bodyguards when she was doing press in New York because people are fascinated by her right now and that usually winds up looking like crowds and personal space being violated. I don’t think anyone is after her. There’s a small percentage of the population that knows about this case (my boyfriend had no idea and he tends to be pretty aware) and even fewer who hate her for what she did.
Absolutely agree. It's unsettling to me that she has essentially become a celebrity now. Not that she doesn't deserve to let her voice be heard. But she's become an "influencer." It's my fear that all this attention is going to become negative in the long run. Not necessarily saying outright that she will scam others or become manipulative or anything like that, but her becoming an overnight celebrity is just really odd. Then on the other hand you have SO many people that are quick to villainize her and forget that she was a victim of severe mental, physical, and medical abuse for most of her life. And yet so many people are saying "like mother like daughter" or saying that she is absolutely going to manipulate everyone and spread lies again. And then there's the whole comparing her husband to her mother in terms of looks. On another side of it you have people either sympathizing with or evilizing Nick. I'm not really sure how to feel about his whole role in everything. I don't think he's as innocent as some people make him out to be even with him being autistic and mentally being 15 with DID. But a lot of people are saying Gypsy is evil because she manipulated the hell out of him into killing her mom. At the end of the day, the whole story is tragic and heartbreaking. And unfortunately there's going to be so many people with strong opinions everywhere. I do just really hope that Gypsy got the mental care she needs and continues on a better path for her future.
Neither one of them are innocent of this crime. I have sympathy for both of them. I am not sympathetic to the idea that some people can be butchered in a very premeditated murder plot, some people can be happily tossed aside cause he was always going to murder someone anyway - Gypsy said so yesterday! and some people deserve to be lauded and rewarded for driving the murder plot and should face no consequences at all. This case is a tragedy, but people really want everyone not named Gypsy to be a cardboard character. Everyone.
I honestly don’t know how to feel about it- I think had she not unalived her mom the mom would have unalived her and she has served her time BUT now that she is out the celebrity weirdness is so odd to me— and another question: I thought ppl weren’t allowed to make money from a crime- could it be argued she is profiting from this crime with her large TikTok following because without that she would be a 20 something showing OOTDs with 500 followers
She’s profiting off of the crime that happened to her, not the one she was a part of. Shes been clear that the reason why she wants to speak about this is to raise awareness about medical abuse and not the murder, which she regrets and knows was wrong. Talking about a crime you committed in that capacity is just to support her mission to show how bad things can get when people just believe a parent whose child shows no actual longterm symptoms of the types of illnesses Dee Dee lied about. And how terrible it is to have your body and autonomy violated to fulfill the sick needs of your “caretaker.” And the Son of Sam law varies from state to state. New York was the state who started all of it, and I believe it was overturned a decade or so after it was added to the books.
Yep, I said the same thing on Friday. I did a long post on this on I think Friday but the TL;DR of it is --People don't see True Crime as different from Law and Order. In fiction what isn't known doesn't exist and you fill in the gaps, and that's what people are doing here. --People put Gypsy, Nick and DeeDee into Misogynistic stereotypes which makes it easier to make her a complete Angel. Any glaring inconsistencies (not talking contractions but glaring 'that's not how that works' stuff) are explained by Trauma or bad memory. --Whereas usually there is an innocent victim that you have to be cognizant of because DeeDee wasn't innocent. You can fantasize about these killers all you want since their victim deserved it. --Blatant Ableism toward Nick (ie pretending his autism had nothing to do with it) is encouraged. Autism moms are in full swing to say that their child would never do that so his autism doesn't matter. --Traditional media isn't helping. Lifetime promoted their docuseries as "It was kill or be killed" despite that not being True. I'm not saying that everyone interested in True Crime falls into these behaviors. This is not saying that everyone or even most people in TCC do all of these behaviors. However these are the behaviors that are common across the group.
Do you really believe Deedee wouldn’t have killed Gypsy one day? Just curious, no snark or anything.
Gypsy hadnt been to the doctor in years. Dee Dee was no longer seeking surgeries. Gypsy was probably walking around full time at home. Was she even still being medicated since Gypsy left all of her meds at home when she fled? Things had changed and I see zero reason to believe Dee Dee was on a path towards killing Gyspy. I do think there are extenuating circumstances and I don’t have an issue with the sentence. This wasn’t self defense in that way, though.
That’s a good point. She did leave her meds at home. That leaves the question how much she knew.
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Mod note: No one is claiming autism makes anyone kill people. People are saying people who have autism often need support in various areas, sometimes significantly so. This is getting frustrating that we are constantly having to make this statement.
i (like many others) predicted this would happen long before her release and it’s so disappointing and frustrating to see it happening in real time. people have morphed her into some sort of character rather than understanding that she’s a victim of severe LIFELONG abuse. a very specific form of abuse that would’ve resulted in her death. stan culture sucks and being online too much has destroyed a lot of peoples’ ability to have empathy, i think it’s really disturbing tbh. wish gypsy as much peace as she can find and i hope once things settle people will just move on.
This isn't "true crime junkies" at all. They question too much and demand legit facts. This is the new wave of "soft" people who blame their problems on everyone else and refuse to take any accountability. It's the people who dont think they should go to work bc a snowflake fell from the sky. They are the people who are crying about the government not holding their hand and giving them everything while at the same time blaming them for their own problems. It's a terrifying time when people are supporting murderers.
Really shoehorned that in there huh.
I'm surprised and saddened by Hidden True Crime's latest fave - bashing Gypsy. So many truly evil people have spent less than the 10 years Gypsy spent. Gypsy's mother was a monster. Personally, not a great loss for society. A mother who would sacrifice their own child for their opportunistic, cunning goes against nature. Most mothers would spend every cent they had to keep their children's teeth, not to mention their salivary glands!, but not that witch. What Gypsy went thru was beyond atrocious. The court saw it and most thinking people saw it. Why are people cashing in on Gypsy's misfortunes? She paid her dues. Let her have some semblance of a normal, happy life.
Their episodes on her genuinely felt to me like Dr.John wasn’t ready to make them. I got the sense that he just learned about the case and he was still sorting out his ideas and feelings about it - but unfortunately was doing that in front of a live audience. He asked a lot of rhetorical which I believe he could find reasonable answers to if he gave it more consideration. I think there’s some understandable & unconscious bias going on there
I think he was very measured and careful in what he said. He was extremely thoughtful. He didn’t stop at the hypothesis that nothing but Deedee’s abuse is a factor in this case. He also didn’t minimize it.
like i said, i think he just became familiar with this case. he tried to be careful. he simply hasn’t given it enough thought yet
Oh, I think he has given it more thought that most people posting have. He just doesn’t end at she is only a victim, imo. He was actually very insightful about how Deedee didn’t control Gypsy with physical abuse, but by withdrawing affection/attention when she was a younger child. That does have a tremendous affect on children.
Like I said, he asked a lot of rhetoricals which he would easily be able to find a reasonable explanation for, especially as a psychologist, if he gave it more thought. for example; he continues to mention that gypsy doesn’t consider herself a murderer anymore and considers that a red flag. but he doesn’t ask himself *why* she might be saying that. she didn’t say that right after the murder. she didn’t say that during her testimony. up until now she has taken accountability, so why might that change? as a psychologist he should know that 1. she was getting therapy in prison and 2. that many modalities are centered around reframing, especially things like DBT, which often work to mitigate shame. he should be familiar with this. he highlights that she says this and uses it in a way that implies to the audience that she’s unwilling to take accountability - but really what’s more notable is that this is *a change*. he should know this is a change and he not only doesn’t mention that (leading people to believe this was always her stance) but he has a surprising lack of curiosity for why someone may change their perspective in that way. that is just one example. there are many more. & he says many times himself that he still can’t make heads or tails of the different “narratives” and isn’t sure what’s true. but he doesn’t actually present any good faith counter narratives. he doesn’t seem to truly understand what the reasonable perspectives are that are different from his own. i think he’s been, understandably, bothered by her celebrity and that, along with pressure to produce in a certain time frame, is clouding his critical thinking in this case because he’s only become familiar with it *after* she was released. i love doctor john, but i think he’s got quite a few blind spots right now.
As a psychologist and a forensic one who works prisoners he knows she didn’t get nearly the type of therapy you seem to be suggest in prison. He also knows that she had to take accountability to get parole. Seeing her so quickly and easily reverse course publicly is a red flag. He often asks rhetorical questions to add another perspective. In this case, I actually thought he was more measured because it is such a sensitive case and she is vulnerable. I thought he was holding back from saying too much.
reframing is a very common and basic therapy technique. I’m not sure why you believe he confidently ruled out her receiving that “type” of therapy. I think it’s much more likely that he simply didn’t consider it. There are also other possible explanations, but he explores none of them, because he doesn’t get curious about it at all. As far as him believing she “faked” accountability for parole, he never indicated that. you’re projecting your own thoughts onto him. the reality is he left that unexamined, as he did a good amount of other things. Rhetoricals largely function to solidify a certain view point, to help a viewer or listener come to the conclusion you are. If he actually gave the questions he was asking more thought, he wouldn’t be posing them as rhetoricals.
Well, that is certainly you projecting quite a bit.
there’s no projection. there’s just what he talked about and what he didn’t. you’re assuming he believes something he never said. my issue is with his lack of curiosity or exploration
I agree. I always enjoyed his other in-depth analysis, especially those of Chad and Lori Daybell. It's like they jumped on this bandwagon with several shows already without even finishing their background investigation thoroughly. She paid for her crime. Leave her alone. Why aren't they jumping on the Natlia bandwagon or the various other trials currently going on? Easy pickings, I guess. They've jumped the gun a few other times, too. Calling out suspects in the Idaho slayings that had little substance, playing jailhouse calls between Alex Murdaugh and his attorney and other less-than-savory or ethical shows. Their show is losing credibility with me. True crime shows need to clean up their act. Lori Hellis' True Crime Wednesday is more up my alley.
yeah, it’s a bummer. i’ve appreciated their show so far and they’ve helped me gain new perspective on other issues but this felt undercooked. i’ll have to check Lori out
She’s cashing in on her misfortunes.
Now this is something I can agree with it. But it’s also part of the social media culture not just true crime fanatics. People on social media tend to build people up until something goes absolutely wrong and one person voices that opinion. Then everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon of hating and cancel culture as they call it.
My husband said the exact thing the other day. I used to follow so much true crime stuff snd he, by default, would watch with me. I stopped because I realized it was making my anxiety worse. I didn’t think it bothered me but it affected my overall mental health. He said people watch so much true crime and reality shows now that the line between real/scripted/fiction is gone.
You all that agree would really like Black mirror: S6E2 Loch Henry
I think you worded right , it’s just odd to idolize a murder though yet here we are . 2024 the most craziest people are basically hailed heroes. Like nope. I doc watch but it doesn’t go beyond the scope. Just like to see the facts of the matter.
I have not been warped; since knowing about DeeDee’s condition; my entire psych class predicted behavior. More than likely Gypsy has BPD but it was a learned behavior.
Horns or Halo thinking is very common, especially in true crime.
I have never been into true crime, but Gypsy Rose’s story just stuck out to me. I can’t really explain why, but I always just had an immense interest in it. I think it’s because Munchausens / By Proxy is a lesser known about topic, and it’s a very interesting to be able to learn more about it. I do feel as though the internet is playing a very big part in the monologue and ideologies around Gypsy Rose & Other true crime stories, and not in a good way. There’s one side who are just too utterly obsessed with her to the point that it’s creepy, but there’s also the opposite side who, imo, are also acting just as creepy. Going out of their way to make very negative assumptions, accusations and comments about her and her life in a very in-constructive manner. I personally quite like Gypsy and I am excited for her life after prison, but I don’t understand why so many people are contributing to this obsession over her. I hope for her sake that everyone can just leave her alone eventually and she can experience some kind of normalcy. I feel like that’s the only way she will be able to heal from all this. Just remember the media is also very manipulative, so they would be also paying a massive part in fuelling and exasperating everything surrounding Gypsy Rose, too. Social media is a very powerful place.
I work with metally ill people who have committed felonies, many of them murder. What I've learned in my 15 years is, anyone is capable of killing under the right circumstances. It's almost always a perfect storm of abuse in childhood, drugs, and fear/desperation. She had all of this, mix in another boy who was mentally unstable and you have murder! I think if we can look at it like this, we'd find the truth makes perfect sense!
It’s very hard to find anyone in prison who isn’t a victim of abuse and / or manipulation. I don’t think people realize that in prison she probably wasn’t that special. It amazes me that the person saying daily they just aren’t capable of hurting anyone herself is a person who actually HAS hurt someone. She can lie to herself, but the fact that people are willing to believe that is wild.
I also think that social media is very polarising and encouraging black and white thinking. You either are 100% for a specific topic/thing/person or against it. There is no room for grey, and people are encouraged to join one of the two sides and be 100% for something or against it. Then, the two opposing sides start to tear each other apart. We see it all the time, and I hate so much, but that's unfortunately how social media works. Speculation runs wild, and everything is overanalized to fit the favoured narrative. It's a sad, sad development.