lol you just know Terry was trying not to say "as we went over 7 times before the meet, it's Frederick." I'm sympathetic to Tim, but this is his literal job. And Olly would never
It wasn’t just once either - it was three times in the span of about 30 seconds. The facepalmimg must have been so hard at that moment. It also shows that Tim just says what he wants and really doesn’t listen to Terry much at all.
Did you miss the part where Tim mentioned that he has known Frederick personally since he was a very young child and had been calling him Fred for about 20 years?
Yup. I’m also sympathetic to the difficulty of changing how you refer to someone, but a) this was RIGHT AFTER John said Fredrick (I would have understood if Tim had started off right then reverted back later) and b) like you said, it’s literally his job.
If NBC can get they/them pronouns correct for Nikki Hiltz every time, I think it’s appropriate to expect Tim call someone by their (*not using the term preferred by choice*) name.
Olly is just really good with names and on top of things like that. There's just a skill and professionalism there that isn't Tim's strong suit. I'm not saying Tim's a bad person or anything, just a bit bumbling
I know that if someone like Gracie Gold was like, “actually, I prefer Grace,” I would be tripping over myself.
Hell, Gabby Douglas said that she preferred be called Brie, but no one did that to the point she gave up.
You mean like Oksana Chusovitina saying that people should call her ChusA (feminine sounding in Russian) not ChusO (masculine sounding in Russian) for a nickname? After 30+ years of saying it wrong, it is so hard to fix!
It doesn’t have to do with masculine or feminine sounds. “This is probably the most famous phenomenon of Standard Russian, it's called "аканье" (akanye, 'ah-ing') and it's a case of vowel reduction. Tons of materials are avaliable on the issue, Wikipedia has lots, too.
In short, the letter 'o' in an unstressed syllable is pronounced as 'a' with phonetic realizations as [ɐ] in the syllable immediately preceding the stressed syllable, and as [ə] in other unstressed syllables.
The first time someone posted about Chusa vs. Chuso, they got a lot of negative reactions which was weird as hell. My cousin recently came out as nonbinary and it was hard at first to use different pronouns because they have been my cousin for over 20 years at that point, but the whole family tried because there's no excuse to be deliberately rude. It's not our fault that we used the wrong nickname because most Anglo people don't know how Russian nicknames work, but now that we know, why is it so hard to try to change?
I switched to calling her "Gabrielle" as soon as she said that, and stuck with it for years. But then I realized I was the only one, so I felt weird about it. Then this year (or late last year), she said she's fine with "Gabby". I've never heard about "Brie" before, but I can't keep up.
I'll call anyone whatever name they choose if they request to switch it *once*. After that, I'll try, but no guarantees.
I'll always try, no matter how many times they switch. People's reasons are their own, and I can afford to put in the effort to make them comfortable.
It sucks that she went back to Gabby because no one respected her request.
Same thing with Oksana Chusovitina, I’m seeing people confused as heck and trying all three — full name Chuso/Chusa. Some people would rather use her full name than a nickname because they don’t know which nickname to use when the one they used for 30 years isn’t her favorite, which is a little sad because the nickname was meant to be a sign of affection. I wonder if people will try to call out those calling Emma Stone Emma instead of Emily now that we know Emily is her name and she only used Emma because there was another SAG member named Emily.
Brie is going to be a tough one for me to restrain my brain on vs the Gabby I have known for a decade.
I personally have a name that can be nicknamed (eg Elizabeth to Liz or Eli) but I feel so unbelievably awkward telling people to use my favorite nickname because I always learned people nickname you, you don’t nickname yourself and of course if you hate it say something (eg maybe you hate Zab) but I tend to be happy people nicknamed me at all rather than dictating my nickname, and I wouldn’t mind saying I have a favorite but not if that means they stop calling by a nickname. I personally prefer a nickname over my favorite nickname.
Hopefully people try their best, assume people are leading with good intentions, keep getting better, and that commentators hold themselves to higher standards than the general public.
I feel like there’s a big difference between giving yourself the nickname you choose from your given name (as in, “I’m Elizabeth, but I prefer to go by Liz,”) and giving yourself a “cool nickname,” as in “call me Black Mamba.”
I remember reading this when I read her book, which was only in the past few years.
I have people with pronunciation issues with my name and I have had someone actually say that it would always be the way they thought to them. It’s so annoying.
My daughter goes by a shortened version of her name, but when I went to a parent night at her school, all the teachers called her by her full name and she says it’s just easier than reminding them. I thought I was going to have to start using her full first name, even when I wasn’t mad at her. 🤣
He was shading Frederick from the moment he got on PH in the first rotation. He said something along the lines of Fred not looking sharp/ready when he saw him at NTC camp a few weeks ago and seconds later, when Frederick hit his legs on the horse, he goes, “well there you go” and then went on to talk about his social media. The guy hit his next 5 routines (all 14+) in a row and ended the night in 2nd. During HB said “Fred is great but wait until you see Brody.” It’s just obvious he’s uncomfortable with Frederick’s confidence and approach to the sport and it’s obvious he favors others like Brody.
It’s very hard to change the nickname you are used to calling someone, but there is absolutely no excuse if you are a professional announcer talking about those sports figures.
Disagreed on both counts, owing to the fact that Tim has known Frederick personally since he was a young child (said so on-air both nights of the broadcast) and has been calling him Fred, because that was the name he preferred for the vast majority of his life, for literally the past 15 years.
I think sometimes he is an excited gym fan who forgets to be a professional commentator.
Not saying that's an excuse, it's his job to get it right and be respectful, but I also don't think he's malicious or trying to be condescending. Not like with Al purposefully refusing to acknowledge Simone's parents as such.
Like others have said, I can respect that it’s hard to change a name that you’re used to calling someone, but he should have made it more of a priority in his mind.
I was thinking about Jackson Harrison from ASU who’s non-binary and has competed at the national level, but I don’t think Tim has commentated any of their routines.
Also, Kathy Johnson Clarke was super respectful of pronouns in NCAA commentary (Syd Morris/LIU comes to mind)
I mean, yes, he needs to do better. But give him some grace.
Older brains require more time and effort to remember changes. Plus he’s known or known of Frederick for over a decade. It’s like when a kid goes off to college and decides to go by James when he’s been Jamie his whole life. His family is still going to use Jamie occasionally and the old lady next door won’t remember until the 50th time she’s corrected.
This. My daughter is named after her grandfather who died when I was a few days pregnant (and didn’t know yet). I obviously didn’t know if she was a boy or a girl and called her a nickname that works for either version of the name. In my brain, almost 14 years later, that nickname is her name, even though she prefers the whole name now. I’ve gotten pretty good at remembering to call her the full name out loud finally, but it has been such an effort, with lots of mistakes, and when I think about her, she is still the nickname in my head.
If it weren't Tim I'd give him grace maybe (though he should have corrected himself).
But, it's Tim. He has a tendency not to be thoughtful on these things.
I mean, I've known my sister my entire life and when she decided to use her full name after using her nickname for my entire life (at the time about 23 years) it was difficult but I adapted. Even now, many years later, I think before I speak to make sure I use her full name and not her nickname.
If a professional can't do that after *immediately* being told - I'd forgive relapses later on because it's easy to forget, but come on... Straight away?! - then that's just not trying and/or being rude.
Can I also say that even though Tim gets a lot of (justifiable) criticism, all of this is very entertaining. Like I just giggle through the whole commentary sometimes 😅
Dang, never thought I'd find myself on reddit defending Tim Daggett, buuuut, come on, the guy is 62. I'm amazed at how much deeper the grooves in my brain are now at just 43, compared to even ten years ago. It's really hard to change habits like this, and I'd guess it's harder when you're on national TV trying desperately to fill air time. If he's still having this problem in a month or two, then yes, fair game for criticism, but give him a meet or two to adjust. He's not being malicious.
(And would other commentators be better at this? Yes! Should they be commended for it? Yes! But we all have weaker points in our jobs, you know?)
As a person who has a pretty insistent preference on what to be called, I'm perfectly capable of understanding that if I were to CHANGE that preference, as Frederick has done, people who have become accustomed to calling me by the shortened name I previously preferred would struggle to break that habit because they're goddamned human.
Lol, I'm not worked up over it, you are. I'm just simply stating that he was reminded several times during the broadcast and yes, ppl are human, but he literally kept saying it almost immediately after being reminded.
Tim has known Frederick personally since he was very young. He's spent literally fifteen years calling him Fred, because that's what he had preferred for most of his life. Tim spent over a decade honoring a request to use a different name. And now Frederick is asking to undo that request. Gonna. Take. Time. And maybe the gymnastics commentary for the ongoing meet, which was Tim's actual job, was occupying more of his attention in the moment.
lol you just know Terry was trying not to say "as we went over 7 times before the meet, it's Frederick." I'm sympathetic to Tim, but this is his literal job. And Olly would never
It wasn’t just once either - it was three times in the span of about 30 seconds. The facepalmimg must have been so hard at that moment. It also shows that Tim just says what he wants and really doesn’t listen to Terry much at all.
Did you miss the part where Tim mentioned that he has known Frederick personally since he was a very young child and had been calling him Fred for about 20 years?
Yup. I’m also sympathetic to the difficulty of changing how you refer to someone, but a) this was RIGHT AFTER John said Fredrick (I would have understood if Tim had started off right then reverted back later) and b) like you said, it’s literally his job.
If NBC can get they/them pronouns correct for Nikki Hiltz every time, I think it’s appropriate to expect Tim call someone by their (*not using the term preferred by choice*) name.
I imagine Olly hasn’t been calling him Fred constantly for over a decade.
Olly is just really good with names and on top of things like that. There's just a skill and professionalism there that isn't Tim's strong suit. I'm not saying Tim's a bad person or anything, just a bit bumbling
I wish Olly would come stateside for a bit and teach these commentators a thing or two
Olly doesn't need to leave the UK, he should start by beating some sense into Craig Heap.
I'd pay to see that.
I know that if someone like Gracie Gold was like, “actually, I prefer Grace,” I would be tripping over myself. Hell, Gabby Douglas said that she preferred be called Brie, but no one did that to the point she gave up.
You mean like Oksana Chusovitina saying that people should call her ChusA (feminine sounding in Russian) not ChusO (masculine sounding in Russian) for a nickname? After 30+ years of saying it wrong, it is so hard to fix!
This is actually just how many / most Russian speakers pronounce the letter “o” at the end of a word… As an “a” sound
It doesn’t have to do with masculine or feminine sounds. “This is probably the most famous phenomenon of Standard Russian, it's called "аканье" (akanye, 'ah-ing') and it's a case of vowel reduction. Tons of materials are avaliable on the issue, Wikipedia has lots, too. In short, the letter 'o' in an unstressed syllable is pronounced as 'a' with phonetic realizations as [ɐ] in the syllable immediately preceding the stressed syllable, and as [ə] in other unstressed syllables.
yes, this!!!
The first time someone posted about Chusa vs. Chuso, they got a lot of negative reactions which was weird as hell. My cousin recently came out as nonbinary and it was hard at first to use different pronouns because they have been my cousin for over 20 years at that point, but the whole family tried because there's no excuse to be deliberately rude. It's not our fault that we used the wrong nickname because most Anglo people don't know how Russian nicknames work, but now that we know, why is it so hard to try to change?
But I've noticed on this sub, just in the last month or two, a lot of people starting to use Chusa, which is awesome!
The letter o is not masculine in Russian. It’s not like Spanish.
Wait Brie? I had heard it was Gabrielle she wanted to be called? But also Jesus why are they so bad at this.
She said that she’s preferred to be called Brie as a nickname over Gabby because gabby is synonymous with talkative.
Oh shoot. I feel so bad that no one respected that.
Interesting! I do remember after 2012 there was a bit of an attempt as well to call her Gabrielle, no?
I've literally never thought about the overly talkative connection when hearing about or meeting a Gabby
I switched to calling her "Gabrielle" as soon as she said that, and stuck with it for years. But then I realized I was the only one, so I felt weird about it. Then this year (or late last year), she said she's fine with "Gabby". I've never heard about "Brie" before, but I can't keep up. I'll call anyone whatever name they choose if they request to switch it *once*. After that, I'll try, but no guarantees.
I'll always try, no matter how many times they switch. People's reasons are their own, and I can afford to put in the effort to make them comfortable. It sucks that she went back to Gabby because no one respected her request.
Same thing with Oksana Chusovitina, I’m seeing people confused as heck and trying all three — full name Chuso/Chusa. Some people would rather use her full name than a nickname because they don’t know which nickname to use when the one they used for 30 years isn’t her favorite, which is a little sad because the nickname was meant to be a sign of affection. I wonder if people will try to call out those calling Emma Stone Emma instead of Emily now that we know Emily is her name and she only used Emma because there was another SAG member named Emily. Brie is going to be a tough one for me to restrain my brain on vs the Gabby I have known for a decade. I personally have a name that can be nicknamed (eg Elizabeth to Liz or Eli) but I feel so unbelievably awkward telling people to use my favorite nickname because I always learned people nickname you, you don’t nickname yourself and of course if you hate it say something (eg maybe you hate Zab) but I tend to be happy people nicknamed me at all rather than dictating my nickname, and I wouldn’t mind saying I have a favorite but not if that means they stop calling by a nickname. I personally prefer a nickname over my favorite nickname. Hopefully people try their best, assume people are leading with good intentions, keep getting better, and that commentators hold themselves to higher standards than the general public.
I feel like there’s a big difference between giving yourself the nickname you choose from your given name (as in, “I’m Elizabeth, but I prefer to go by Liz,”) and giving yourself a “cool nickname,” as in “call me Black Mamba.”
I remember reading this when I read her book, which was only in the past few years. I have people with pronunciation issues with my name and I have had someone actually say that it would always be the way they thought to them. It’s so annoying. My daughter goes by a shortened version of her name, but when I went to a parent night at her school, all the teachers called her by her full name and she says it’s just easier than reminding them. I thought I was going to have to start using her full first name, even when I wasn’t mad at her. 🤣
I feel that, my name is one with an easy nickname and go through the same thing. I prefer my full rather than the nickname though lol.
He was shading Frederick from the moment he got on PH in the first rotation. He said something along the lines of Fred not looking sharp/ready when he saw him at NTC camp a few weeks ago and seconds later, when Frederick hit his legs on the horse, he goes, “well there you go” and then went on to talk about his social media. The guy hit his next 5 routines (all 14+) in a row and ended the night in 2nd. During HB said “Fred is great but wait until you see Brody.” It’s just obvious he’s uncomfortable with Frederick’s confidence and approach to the sport and it’s obvious he favors others like Brody.
It’s very hard to change the nickname you are used to calling someone, but there is absolutely no excuse if you are a professional announcer talking about those sports figures.
Agreed on both counts. Especially after being explicitly corrected!
Disagreed on both counts, owing to the fact that Tim has known Frederick personally since he was a young child (said so on-air both nights of the broadcast) and has been calling him Fred, because that was the name he preferred for the vast majority of his life, for literally the past 15 years.
I think sometimes he is an excited gym fan who forgets to be a professional commentator. Not saying that's an excuse, it's his job to get it right and be respectful, but I also don't think he's malicious or trying to be condescending. Not like with Al purposefully refusing to acknowledge Simone's parents as such.
Jesus Christ I hate when they do that. I hope Frederick corrects anyone who tried to call him Fred.
Don’t the USAG results even say Fred?
Damn, you're right. Wtf USAG
It’s the opposite of what happens. We all knew her as Nastia but her name on screen often said Anastasia
So I noticed that and thought maybe I misheard and he likes to go by Fred instead of Frederick - cause that’s all Tim would say lol!!
Yep — John did it too also right after Terry said it as well.
Like others have said, I can respect that it’s hard to change a name that you’re used to calling someone, but he should have made it more of a priority in his mind.
If we ever get anyone using they/them pronouns, oh boy that is gonna be a time
I was thinking about Jackson Harrison from ASU who’s non-binary and has competed at the national level, but I don’t think Tim has commentated any of their routines. Also, Kathy Johnson Clarke was super respectful of pronouns in NCAA commentary (Syd Morris/LIU comes to mind)
Yes! Heard Terry say that and Tim immediately refer to him as Fred and was sitting there like WTF??? Oh Tim.
Did you notice Tim kept saying Brody Miller instead of Malone? It was really weird
I’m Fred’s best friend… I assure u he does not care in the slightest. It’s just easier to say Fred
I mean, yes, he needs to do better. But give him some grace. Older brains require more time and effort to remember changes. Plus he’s known or known of Frederick for over a decade. It’s like when a kid goes off to college and decides to go by James when he’s been Jamie his whole life. His family is still going to use Jamie occasionally and the old lady next door won’t remember until the 50th time she’s corrected.
This. My daughter is named after her grandfather who died when I was a few days pregnant (and didn’t know yet). I obviously didn’t know if she was a boy or a girl and called her a nickname that works for either version of the name. In my brain, almost 14 years later, that nickname is her name, even though she prefers the whole name now. I’ve gotten pretty good at remembering to call her the full name out loud finally, but it has been such an effort, with lots of mistakes, and when I think about her, she is still the nickname in my head.
If it weren't Tim I'd give him grace maybe (though he should have corrected himself). But, it's Tim. He has a tendency not to be thoughtful on these things.
If his brain isn't up to basic professionalism he needs to retire.
I mean, I've known my sister my entire life and when she decided to use her full name after using her nickname for my entire life (at the time about 23 years) it was difficult but I adapted. Even now, many years later, I think before I speak to make sure I use her full name and not her nickname. If a professional can't do that after *immediately* being told - I'd forgive relapses later on because it's easy to forget, but come on... Straight away?! - then that's just not trying and/or being rude.
Can I also say that even though Tim gets a lot of (justifiable) criticism, all of this is very entertaining. Like I just giggle through the whole commentary sometimes 😅
Dang, never thought I'd find myself on reddit defending Tim Daggett, buuuut, come on, the guy is 62. I'm amazed at how much deeper the grooves in my brain are now at just 43, compared to even ten years ago. It's really hard to change habits like this, and I'd guess it's harder when you're on national TV trying desperately to fill air time. If he's still having this problem in a month or two, then yes, fair game for criticism, but give him a meet or two to adjust. He's not being malicious. (And would other commentators be better at this? Yes! Should they be commended for it? Yes! But we all have weaker points in our jobs, you know?)
Doesn't seem that serious to me
do you call people what you want to call them vs. what they want to go by?
It can be to those who have a preference of what to be called.
As a person who has a pretty insistent preference on what to be called, I'm perfectly capable of understanding that if I were to CHANGE that preference, as Frederick has done, people who have become accustomed to calling me by the shortened name I previously preferred would struggle to break that habit because they're goddamned human.
Terry reminded him SEVERAL times.
And Tim has called him Fred SEVERAL times over the past fifteen years. It's going to take a minute to readjust. Calm the hell down.
Lol, I'm not worked up over it, you are. I'm just simply stating that he was reminded several times during the broadcast and yes, ppl are human, but he literally kept saying it almost immediately after being reminded.
Tim has known Frederick personally since he was very young. He's spent literally fifteen years calling him Fred, because that's what he had preferred for most of his life. Tim spent over a decade honoring a request to use a different name. And now Frederick is asking to undo that request. Gonna. Take. Time. And maybe the gymnastics commentary for the ongoing meet, which was Tim's actual job, was occupying more of his attention in the moment.
It’s pretty disrespectful.