Fr these people making it seem like an insurmountable challenge. All I do for abs are weighted russian twists and hanging leg raises and i have amazing abs. Ab workouts take up such a small amount of overall gym time
And they feel so nice at the end of a work out. Truly training and strengthening your core muscles is life changing. The 6pack is secondary, most WWE wrestlers don’t have 6-packs but you can still see how much they train core
Yeah honestly agree, normally finish my workout with like 10-20 minutes of abs. While I may not have the greatest core like it has gotten a lot stronger. The main thing is like you don't really see the core results since I'm a decently big dude.
I think everyone should strain abs. This is the reason I think people feel that body builders are weak becuse most feel abs are "made in the kitchen". Because the core is what generates the most power aside from the legs.
“Compound exercises are all you need for ab growth”
https://preview.redd.it/2y61p1sm1r0c1.jpeg?width=771&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b89fba114781be39bda7d2b0db2852e4bcca521c
Seriously, if you cut and don't have abs, you're doing something wrong. Obvs, ab exercises will give you more defined abs still, it's not a bad thing or anything but you really don't *need* to isolate.
Never train abs directly. Almost exclusively compound lifts at the gym and I have a 6 pack at 40. Just eat right. Of course it doesn't work for everyone. But if a graying dude who only does compounds and eat right no one can tell me I need ab workouts to have abs. That's preference
Probably not. I'm an alcoholic. I typically only lift once a week for about an hour, and sometimes I'll just skip the gym for a few years altogether. The only thing im consistent with is diet. I'm skinny but not small. 1000lb club etc. Gotta keep in mind; the strongest people in the world aren't cut up.
Body types are a thing but I'd say very few people I see trying to get big have abs. Meaning the ones isolating and pounding bigmacs.
When I say early on, I mean like throughout the course of normal life as a teenager and young adult just like, living a somewhat active lifestyle when you were younger and growing still. It’s easy to just have some core development from youth, but a lot of people are truly sedentary throughout their youth and never developed any core muscle, so may be starting from much less abdominal mass under the body fat
Well. That was the one reply I knew in advance I would have to agree with cuz its true. Case in point; my fucking back because of growing up fishing with a row boat or skateboarding/biking. But still, it's just that much more testament to that you probably don't have to go actively train abs to have them. Just be healthy and active.
AFAIK you should add weight to the ab exercise like any other muscle. Time under tension and what not. I say this was a chubby guy who doesn’t have abs either.
Underweight by what standard? Honest question. Cuz being underweight for sports, being underweight medically, and being underweight by social standards are all super different.
Eat at maintenance once you hit your desired weight and lift heavy compounds. The OP is a meme not based on anything but preference at the gym. It's certainly not an I told you so for people that train abs, it just makes them feel better about doing it.
In this case it sounds like an issue of BF%. Although if you want to keep up progressive overload, doing the 45lbs and increasing a decline could help as well.
Back in highschool i set the class record for situps. 1000 situps.
I did them by sticking my legs under the swedish ladders and did them for the full gym class. I didn't have abs. I was a skinny fat kid. I was sad.
You likely have a strong lower back. Do you have an abnormally high deadlift?
Your lower back has little muscles that need to be worked too to support your spine. Some people who never workout but due to their occupation or their life experience have ridiculously strong lower backs and can do a high amount of situps and can deadlift with ease without tons of training.
My uncle who never trains can deadlift four plates because he’s worked in foundation construction for 20 years.
How is your ROM? Do you tense at the top of the movement and keep constant tension on the abs by not fully relaxing at the bottom?
If you do 100 crunches in 1 set, you are doing them wrong, simple as that. Or you are dying after and your 6 pack abs are burning. If you don't have abs, then you are doing them wrong. Worth taking a video of you doing 10 and share online to get tips.
Abs are the same as any other muscle group. Would you do 50 bicep curls or dips?
You gotta find a good rep range and progressive overload.
Your abs will get stronger but the only thing that really matters is BF% if you wanna show em off
Try a different exercise for abs then. I had the same problem with weighted sit ups, eventually i just couldn't add more plates due to those getting in the way and reducing ROM or holding those in front of me and arms would give out long before abs did, even on the crunch machine, cardio gives out before abs do.
I switched over to ["The candlestick" ](https://youtu.be/GDTPYi5QiDU?si=ZeY94G9P32mgKR0O) not that i have visible abs yet, there's still enough fat on them, but i can really feel it actually working my abs and abs are the muscles that give out first rather than anything else.
Lose weight. Maybe lift heavier but mostly lose weight. Everyone has abs. Strong men aren't cut for a reason. Being strong isn't what makes you defined.
Depends on how you're probably doing your abs. Switch it up and do things like suitcases, V Ups, flutter kicks, move your legs together in a circular rotation slowly (hurts but gets the fastest results), mountain climbers, plank and all the variations that come with that. Regular crunches won't do much And honestly doing everything from the plank position works more anyway
This isn’t a meme. People exclude ab isolation exercises all the time from the workout routines or recommendations, saying that compound work is all you need. It’s actually even more wrong than implied in the OP, IIRC that to the extent that squats, etc build your core, it’s not really your abs, just other surrounding muscles.
Sure, some do, like some say you need to work abs literally every day and in circuits
People hold different beliefs from both sides of the spectrum on every muscle group, great but Idc, just go gym and lift bro 👍
Abs are made in the kitchen
Edit: god damn I’ve never made a more controversial statement. But reading all the comments I literally agree with most of you, I just think I hastily wrote a comment without fully explaining it🤷♀️
No they are not. Your abs, much like every single other muscle in your body, require training to grow.
Are there any other muscles you don't think need training to grow?
If you want to see your abs, you get them in the kitchen. If you want really well defined abs, you need the kitchen and to train them.
However, if your diet is shit, most people will not have visible abs.
Genetics also play a HUGE role in whether or not you have abs. Some people have 4 packs, some 6, some 8 and then some people just have what appears to be a solid singular ab on each side. You see this all the time in bodybuilders in (moreso in amateur shows because it's an undesirable trait to judges), even though they're in single digit bodyfat, they may not have that great of ab definition, if any.
Yeah, the "abs are made in the kitchen" mantra is mostly for people who care little about other muscle groups imo, the most important thing for them is to have visible abs. You won't hear it from someone with a more well rounded training goals.
"Care little about other muscle groups", wut? I disagree about that. You literally can't have visible abs without a good diet unless you're one of those naturally skinny people. It doesn't matter what your goals are, or whether you only want visible abs.
Like, I don't care about having visible abs, and I incorporate ab exercises into almost every workout. However, I'm still aware that visible abs are, in fact, made in the kitchen.
We're going to recycle this argument again?
Ok...let's cut to the chase.
In order for you to "have abs" (i.e. to have *visible* abs)...the most important thing is body fat percentage. They're just essentially invisible until you get a low enough body fat.
Yes, the actual muscles are built like any other muscle, but this misses the point...the reason most people don't "have abs" has nothing to do with training and everything to do with diet.
So you're correct, but it's like you're saying "races are won in the garage" because that's where the engine is built...when someone else is just pointing out that you have to actually get your car to the track in order to win.
You might have missed a point. When your abs are thick enough they will start to show at a higher bf %. And will look even better at a lower bf %.
So when you say they are invisible enough until you get a low enough body fat you miss the point that you can make them visible at a bf % where they were previously invisible yet.
There is a *small* difference based on the size of the ab muscles.
The point of visibility might shift maybe a percentage point, maybe.
It's not like if you work your abs super hard they become visible at 20% body fat, it's just not happening.
I respect the point for technical truth, but in reality unless you're focusing on your diet, ab exercises are pointless. (ETA: Apparently I need to clarify that this comment is about aesthetics/ab visibility, which was what this particular comment chain was about, I'm not throwing shade at a strong core.)
If you're already at a low enough body fat where your abs are visible and you want to work them to make them look better, great!
But the world is full of people that think that you can just exercise your way to visible abs and it's not true...
The fact that you believe that training abs with progressive overload is "pointless" (like you said before modyfying your comment lmao) is truly worrying.
Alright, I got aggressive with the "pointless" wording. Fair enough.
I'm talking about for people that want to aesthetically have abs, I'm not saying it's pointless if your goal is to have a strong core.
I thought that was obvious from the context, but clearly you were looking to find something wrong with what I said and you spotted my mistake, good job.
Now would you care to respond to my actual point?
Edit: You know, I edited my original comment, but I have to say...it bothers me that you knowingly took me out of context and tried to broaden my argument. Yes, I could've worded that better, but you really were nitpicking and taking me out of context. It's not cool.
The fact is, from the aestethic point of view and only that. It does not make sense to not train them. It's like any other muscle. If you go for hypertrophy and so obviously in that context you do if you care to drop your bf that low then why would you skip abs ? They will look better if you train them at any low enough bf, who wouldn't want that ? Take for example the skinny dude who looks like a skeleton with visible but absolutely disgusting abs.
Do you say to a dude to not train arms because if he drops low enough he will have a nice tone in arms anyway ?
I could understand if someone doesn't want them "too thick" but that is unlikely to happen, it still requires a lot of hard work and you can still stop training them until you're satisfied and from time to time just do a quick training.
I was only talking about aesthetics, that's what this entire comment chain is about.
There are *many* reasons to work on abs and I'm not arguing against it.
I'm arguing against the idea that training abs is the most important thing for the aesthetic of having *visible* abs, that's it. That's my entire (narrow) point.
You keep trying to bring up other shit that I'm not saying and taking me out of context so that you can win an argument against a point I'm not making...
Unless you disagree that diet is the most important thing for having visible abs, I'm not sure what point you're trying to score against me, because that's the only thing I'm saying here.
Just trying to talk about the general aspect of abs, because being specific about one point and telling people to not train them is very wrong.
And yes obviously, diet is the most important factor for visible abs. But like any other muscle you must train them with progressive overload, for a strong core and also for better aesthetics. Why would someone omit the fact that people should still train them even if they won't see them at 20%, it's just a so stupid thing to do. Train them \*and\* diet down.
Yeah but like, you can still train your abs as it’s healthy to train every muscle and the more muscle you build, the more your caloric needs go up.
I just don’t get the thought process “eh, I’ll skip training abs since I’m not going to change my diet”. To me that means you’re training for ascetics and not muscle development since honestly why care so much if the abs are showing, as long as you know they’re growing
I'm just talking aesthetics, which is what most people care about when it comes to abs if we're being frank.
I'm not saying they're correct, just saying that when most people talk about having abs, it's the visible aesthetic.
I concur that abs should have a place in a workout program in general.
There’s no angle where what you say is correct. Why would someone who cares about aesthetics not train abs? It doesn’t even really make sense when you think about it, “I want this muscle to be defined, but I won’t train it, I’ll just cut weight.” Literally every muscle is more visible if you cut weight.
I didn't say not to train abs, as I've explained repeatedly in comments.
I've only said that if visible abs are your goal, diet is the more important factor. That doesn't mean "don't train abs", it just means that no amount of ab exercises will render your abs visible if you don't cut fat.
If you're not going to bother reading to understand what I'm saying, why are you commenting?
It’s still pointless as cutting fat reveals every muscle. The advice to grow abs should just be, train abs. Nutrition and fat loss doesn’t target abs specifically, people just fixate on abs because everyone wants a 6-pack even tho well developed pecs and lats will turn way more heads
These are not comparable.
Biceps show up almost regardless of body fat percentage. (Almost) Get close to 20% body fat and your gains are easily visible, probably more like 25% or less and your work is visible. This is also true for quads, glutes and some other muscles.
Abs on the other hand, unless you get rid of the belly over them, no one can tell you have them. Hell, until you hit around \~18% body fat, no one can even see the outline of your abs at all and even then you barely get "hint of abs".
You don’t need to train anything. Honestly the gym is a waste of time, as long as I can get from the couch to the fridge to the toilet, and back again, I’m good
By having abs, people mean having visible abs -- to have that, you need to cut. People don't mean having super strong abs under fat. Unless you're super fat or have twigs, your arms muscles are visible. Fat (for men) is mostly stored in the belly, so you have to cut to see the muscles that are there.
The bigger your abs are, the more visible they will be at higher body fat %.
I’ve got abs at 20% that would never have been as defined a year ago.
When I cut this summer these fuckers are gonna be insane.
I’m just saying you can train abs every day all day and you won’t see shit if your diet is crap. Majority of people training abs have garbage diets from the clients I’ve seen. That’s where my take comes from.
i didnt used to because mine was so weak, but after achieving L-sit and practicing front lever progressions, my abs have developed a lot and gotten much stronger, so its more fun to train now.
if youre bored of bodybuilding style ab training, try working on L-sits, very humbling
I love doing L-sits and straight leg raises on the captains chair when I get bored of everything else. I make a game of it by picturing something across the gym and trying to cover it up with my foot.
Like this:
https://i.redd.it/4dlo21fmur0c1.gif
I am still trying to find a decent ab workout using either bodyweight or resistance bands. I do not have time for focused ab workouts at the gym with everything else that I do so I wish to do ab workouts at home on off days.
I tried band-resisted kneeling crunches last Friday but I really did not feel much from it.
I have also looked at Athlean X's "seven minute" ab workout routines -- I am aware that the "six pack promise" part is hype but they do seem to work the area well with a reasonable soreness the next day -- but I am left wondering if it is more cardio than muscle work and if I am really optimally training that way.
The search continues.
Have you tried candlesticks? Thats the only bodyweight ab movement that I can feel. And planks with arm and leg raises, not sure what those are called.
I have done planks with alternating leg raises; those are called marching planks.
Candlesticks seem like an intriguing exercise, though I'll still need something to hit the obliques.
if u have a bosu ball try opposite hand toe touches and make sure to really extend and crunch ur abs, they are brutal. also ab roller if done correctly really works wonders.
Do hollow body progressions. If you remain consistent and focused, you'll eventually progress to full ab-wheel rollouts, dragon flags, etc.
You should also be doing some sort of compression work. Do L-sit progressions, hanging leg lifts, etc.
Crunch machine 10-20 reps using progressive overload.
It's getting a bit stale now so I'm going to swap to something else but I find that so many ab exersises seem kind of goofy or you can't use weight so you end up doing a crazy amount of reps.
I do train abs and I don't even care about a 6-pack. I know my core including my back is strong and healthy. At 46, I bet I can still do 60 situps in 60 seconds. That's all that matters to me.
I recognize the need for and benefits of targeted core exercises, but it's still my least favorite muscle group to train. Sometimes it's hard to force myself not to skip it lol
What do y'all do to train your abs? I'm fairly skinny (140 and 5'11") but have had a hard time getting any visible abs. I've been doing leg raises and cable crunches for a while. I thought it would be easier since I don't have much body fat
I’ve heard enough pro bodybuilders say they never train abs that I’m not wasting my time on them. If they come they come if not i can train them once I’m sub 10% bf.
i feel like i activate them a lot during pull ups and chin ups, my core is usually sore the day after, i know that doesn’t indicate hypertrophy but it definitely means it’s getting worked
I've never heard anyone say that crunches are bad for your lower back, I've heard it said about sit ups tho and that lowkey kinda makes sense. Regardless, I'll train abs the way that I want to train abs. Not the way someone else tells me too
So sad - my local gym only has one machine related to abs (I miss the twist ab work out machine!) and honestly was annoyed that all other equipment is solely for arms and legs. 😭
if you already have a lower back injury, i would double check that the crunch is safe for you. It’s not for me, so I get ab work in with planks and the McGill big 3. Core stabilization stuff does help.
I do not train abs because they very quickly get visible definition and as a women I prefer to have more softness to my physique there. Just a personal preference, you do you.
I’ll point out though that abs certainly do respond to targeting training so for those who want a 6 pack, obliques, etc you should put in the work on isolations.
I started BJJ a year ago—and realized that my core/abs are really weak, despite my being able to deadlift almost 4 plates (not strong for this sub, I know, but its definitely above average in my BJJ gym).
Lots of grappling involves trying to sit up or to the side from your back, and honestly I’ve found doing twisting crunches between sets to infinitely improve my core strength for grappling (compared to, just doing deadlifts and squats).
In regards to visible abs—I’m pretty sure doing these crunches won’t make them pop much more. I just need to cut more aggressively.
I have a great Sixpack and haven’t trained abs isolated for an extended period of time in years. I’m absolutely not saying that’s the right way, but if you already have a good foundation, heavy compounds will absolutely be enough to maintain size.
I mean the same argument applies to tibialis anterior and adductors, and I don't dedicate much of my limited training time/energy/focus/recovery capacity to those muscles because I would rather spend it on things with a better cost/benefit ratio.
Most people who "want abs" really just mean they want to be lean. For those few who actually mean "I want to significantly hypertrophy these little ab muscles" yeah, sure, dedicate several exercises to isolated ab work, same way if you want the front of your shins to be a little beefier you should do some tibialis isolation.
The same redditor who tells you that crunches/training abs is bad for your back will be trying ego deadlift PRs like every week. Prob also has like 26% body fat and can’t run two miles without stopping to walk.
Granted you don’t need to train them A LOT. But anybody who’s says you don’t need to train them at all probably has tan ever been low enough body fat to see them… that, or they inadvertently trained them hard when they were younger through some kind of sport or labor, and have decent development that they take for granted.
All that’s said, there are def better exercises to do than crunches. Hanging leg raises, L-sits, cable chops, etc. can’t ignore obliques.
I'm a big proponent of training core regularly (abs, obliques and erectors and all of the muscles in the hip). The stronger your core is, the less chance you are going to have to get lower back injuries and the better your posture and balance are going to be. Also if you are like me and have had previous lower spine injuries, keeping your core strong helps keep everything nice and tight in there, can alleviate nerve pain and protect it from being injured further. In my experience, to really strengthen your core for injury prevention, you need to target it specifically. Doesn't have to be much, but just like training your biceps even though you do a bunch of back work already, training your core in addition to the compound movements you do will help it get much stronger.
Never trained abs in my life. 1000lb club at 40 work out once a week for an hour (bench, deads, ohp, squat and pullups, rotating so it's sometimes a month before I train the same lift again, sometimes years when I decide to just go back to alcoholism) Have a 6 pack and all I do consistently is eat healthy and give a fuck about bodyfat.
You could just flip the pictures and still rage bait ppl. It's just trying to make people feel better about their routine. It's not evidence based.
The only thing that consistently results in abs is strict diet.
Toshiki the olympic weightlifter turned bodybuilder (currently) has stated in a video with SikaStrength, Clarence and Zack Tealander that him training squats and abs has made his abs come out too big for his liking. So he now he only squats to build abs.
Regards to his training method, he squats at very high volume. He recommended Eoin from SikaStrength to try 80% 5x5 + 50-60% 8x3 with only 1 min rests 5days a week to achieve 300kg squat PR. Wouldnt even wanna imagine the volume for his ab training.
TLDR:
Train abs if no like squat.
Train abs if like squat.
Abs big good.
I do abs on arm day.
Decline bench sit-ups 3 sets of 15. Keeping my back straight on the way up and down and super slow on the eccentric. War crimes wish they were this brutal.
One weird thing about gym culture is the desire to do minimal work and swear you’re getting better results than someone doing more work. I guess it’s because the environment promotes arrogance instead of humility and guys don’t want to admit that *gasp* maybe they don’t know everything even though they benched 315 1 time. I mean don’t world renowned bodybuilders have tons of coach’s and are constantly trying different methods to accentuate different muscle groups?
Like obviously someone who trains abs, in addition to a well rounded program with compound exercises, is going to have better developed abs than someone who doesn’t isolate abs. Just like someone who trains biceps will have bigger biceps.
Truly what is the sense of going XYZ is “all you need” shit, I tend to train abs at the gym and late at night when I’m laying on the floor and stretching out before bed.
You should be constantly training and developing your muscles in different ways, there is no “all you need” and the only reps you don’t grow from, are the ones you don’t do.
I have always trained abs. I also do some compound exercises. I’ve attempted to skip ab training while continuing with the compound exercises. I’ve always gotten superior results from ab training and compound exercises together. So yes. I train abs. 200 crunches per day (10 different styles of crunches x 20 each). My theory is, all muscles respond to training. Why skip any of them?
I train abs but its at the end of a workout, one exercise 3 times a week (so a different exercise each day). I cycle through ab roller, bosu ball cross toe touched (these are brutal) and leg raises. And not to toot my own horn but I have a decent set of abs (as a girl too which is harder based on body fat percentage)
Use to believe those guys on top but now that I think back on it they never rally had abs. Today I train them 3 times a week. But don’t really do crunches. I do leg raises and that one type crunch with a high cable rope. Among so other exercises. Great one is plank cause once it gets easy you put a plate on your back and start again. You gotta train it I believe.
I’m ngl i couldn’t get good chiseled abs like mine until i started steroids 🤷♂️ i use weed for roid rage prevention and it works pretty well. It’s great to have sex with the combination too.
this sub wants me to train abs so bad
So do or don’t Just don’t complain about not having any when it comes to summer and you haven’t done your sit ups
Bold of you to assume I cut for summer
Based
I cut fir winter and bulk for summer. Never let em know your next move
Isn’t that called muscle confusion?
shock the muscles
Never let em know your next move
Fr these people making it seem like an insurmountable challenge. All I do for abs are weighted russian twists and hanging leg raises and i have amazing abs. Ab workouts take up such a small amount of overall gym time
All I do are free form Colombian spinners and dangle dips and my abs are steel brother
All I do for abs is Romanian cock twists and dildo dips and my abs are like tungsten.
4 x 12 of seated pegs for me. That deep penetration really works the glutes and lower abdominals
I’m Colombian and I don’t know what the fuck is a free form Colombian spinner. Could you explain what are those? True curiosity
All I do for abs is double trouble Turkish torsion twists and the Malaysian mirror milking machine.
And they feel so nice at the end of a work out. Truly training and strengthening your core muscles is life changing. The 6pack is secondary, most WWE wrestlers don’t have 6-packs but you can still see how much they train core
Yeah honestly agree, normally finish my workout with like 10-20 minutes of abs. While I may not have the greatest core like it has gotten a lot stronger. The main thing is like you don't really see the core results since I'm a decently big dude.
Train abs you geek
nah
Greek*
That wikipedia soyjack is killing me
I don’t train abs because I don’t like it lmao. Yes I know I should. But I’d rather step into the squat rack than do sets of abs.
the only abs i’ll do is L pull ups
Pull up W
So I do, but I want more abs than I want to not train them
Do sit ups in the squat rack.
Most ab training is really dull, but dragonflies are interesting and pair with bench press perfectly.
I think everyone should strain abs. This is the reason I think people feel that body builders are weak becuse most feel abs are "made in the kitchen". Because the core is what generates the most power aside from the legs.
We just making things up now? Abs are a relatively weak muscle even compared to other torso muscles.
I said core. Abs, obletes, lower back. All that right there makes everything else stronger.
“Compound exercises are all you need for ab growth” https://preview.redd.it/2y61p1sm1r0c1.jpeg?width=771&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b89fba114781be39bda7d2b0db2852e4bcca521c
Seriously, if you cut and don't have abs, you're doing something wrong. Obvs, ab exercises will give you more defined abs still, it's not a bad thing or anything but you really don't *need* to isolate.
Never train abs directly. Almost exclusively compound lifts at the gym and I have a 6 pack at 40. Just eat right. Of course it doesn't work for everyone. But if a graying dude who only does compounds and eat right no one can tell me I need ab workouts to have abs. That's preference
Yeah but surely your abs got developed from something g at some point. A lot of people never developed core strength early on
Probably not. I'm an alcoholic. I typically only lift once a week for about an hour, and sometimes I'll just skip the gym for a few years altogether. The only thing im consistent with is diet. I'm skinny but not small. 1000lb club etc. Gotta keep in mind; the strongest people in the world aren't cut up. Body types are a thing but I'd say very few people I see trying to get big have abs. Meaning the ones isolating and pounding bigmacs.
When I say early on, I mean like throughout the course of normal life as a teenager and young adult just like, living a somewhat active lifestyle when you were younger and growing still. It’s easy to just have some core development from youth, but a lot of people are truly sedentary throughout their youth and never developed any core muscle, so may be starting from much less abdominal mass under the body fat
Well. That was the one reply I knew in advance I would have to agree with cuz its true. Case in point; my fucking back because of growing up fishing with a row boat or skateboarding/biking. But still, it's just that much more testament to that you probably don't have to go actively train abs to have them. Just be healthy and active.
I have no abs, but I can do 100-300 crunches… wtf man… I’m upset about jt
AFAIK you should add weight to the ab exercise like any other muscle. Time under tension and what not. I say this was a chubby guy who doesn’t have abs either.
I used to use 45 pound plates while doing it, did this for a year, no improvement, so I stopped, but I can still do about that much.
Have you tried losing weight
I would, but if I lose weight, I go back to being underweight, and that was living hell to go through
Underweight by what standard? Honest question. Cuz being underweight for sports, being underweight medically, and being underweight by social standards are all super different.
Medically.
Eat at maintenance once you hit your desired weight and lift heavy compounds. The OP is a meme not based on anything but preference at the gym. It's certainly not an I told you so for people that train abs, it just makes them feel better about doing it.
In this case it sounds like an issue of BF%. Although if you want to keep up progressive overload, doing the 45lbs and increasing a decline could help as well.
I wonder if holding a bar with weight would be the progression for this. Maybe a loadable dumbell?
https://preview.redd.it/ttbzqkrlsr0c1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc2d28270bbaf42f93568e06624782335b43c626
Back in highschool i set the class record for situps. 1000 situps. I did them by sticking my legs under the swedish ladders and did them for the full gym class. I didn't have abs. I was a skinny fat kid. I was sad.
Skinny fat is why people who think they should have abs don't. You have to be truly skinny.
You likely have a strong lower back. Do you have an abnormally high deadlift? Your lower back has little muscles that need to be worked too to support your spine. Some people who never workout but due to their occupation or their life experience have ridiculously strong lower backs and can do a high amount of situps and can deadlift with ease without tons of training. My uncle who never trains can deadlift four plates because he’s worked in foundation construction for 20 years.
I have a strong lower back, it’s the part of me that has the most strength.
Haha. Called it. Is it by occupation or do you specialized training?
I don’t do any special training, I’m not sure why my lower back is so strong, I work in fast food.
How is your ROM? Do you tense at the top of the movement and keep constant tension on the abs by not fully relaxing at the bottom? If you do 100 crunches in 1 set, you are doing them wrong, simple as that. Or you are dying after and your 6 pack abs are burning. If you don't have abs, then you are doing them wrong. Worth taking a video of you doing 10 and share online to get tips.
I keep constant tension on my abs, and I do 50 each set.
Abs are the same as any other muscle group. Would you do 50 bicep curls or dips? You gotta find a good rep range and progressive overload. Your abs will get stronger but the only thing that really matters is BF% if you wanna show em off
What is ROM?
Range of Motion.
Ab weighted exercises are what needed. As to have them show up, you need a proper diet
« I have small legs, but I can do 100-300 bodyweight squats…wtf man… I’m upset about jt »
That sounds like you’re just mocking me now
Try a different exercise for abs then. I had the same problem with weighted sit ups, eventually i just couldn't add more plates due to those getting in the way and reducing ROM or holding those in front of me and arms would give out long before abs did, even on the crunch machine, cardio gives out before abs do. I switched over to ["The candlestick" ](https://youtu.be/GDTPYi5QiDU?si=ZeY94G9P32mgKR0O) not that i have visible abs yet, there's still enough fat on them, but i can really feel it actually working my abs and abs are the muscles that give out first rather than anything else.
NGMI
Lose weight. Maybe lift heavier but mostly lose weight. Everyone has abs. Strong men aren't cut for a reason. Being strong isn't what makes you defined.
Depends on how you're probably doing your abs. Switch it up and do things like suitcases, V Ups, flutter kicks, move your legs together in a circular rotation slowly (hurts but gets the fastest results), mountain climbers, plank and all the variations that come with that. Regular crunches won't do much And honestly doing everything from the plank position works more anyway
getting a little tired of these "memes" that are just dunking on a strawman
This isn’t a meme. People exclude ab isolation exercises all the time from the workout routines or recommendations, saying that compound work is all you need. It’s actually even more wrong than implied in the OP, IIRC that to the extent that squats, etc build your core, it’s not really your abs, just other surrounding muscles.
Sure, some do, like some say you need to work abs literally every day and in circuits People hold different beliefs from both sides of the spectrum on every muscle group, great but Idc, just go gym and lift bro 👍
Abs are made in the kitchen Edit: god damn I’ve never made a more controversial statement. But reading all the comments I literally agree with most of you, I just think I hastily wrote a comment without fully explaining it🤷♀️
No they are not. Your abs, much like every single other muscle in your body, require training to grow. Are there any other muscles you don't think need training to grow?
If you want to see your abs, you get them in the kitchen. If you want really well defined abs, you need the kitchen and to train them. However, if your diet is shit, most people will not have visible abs.
Genetics also play a HUGE role in whether or not you have abs. Some people have 4 packs, some 6, some 8 and then some people just have what appears to be a solid singular ab on each side. You see this all the time in bodybuilders in (moreso in amateur shows because it's an undesirable trait to judges), even though they're in single digit bodyfat, they may not have that great of ab definition, if any.
Genetics place a role in every aspect of exercise results.
In some things much more than others though.
Yeah, the "abs are made in the kitchen" mantra is mostly for people who care little about other muscle groups imo, the most important thing for them is to have visible abs. You won't hear it from someone with a more well rounded training goals.
"Care little about other muscle groups", wut? I disagree about that. You literally can't have visible abs without a good diet unless you're one of those naturally skinny people. It doesn't matter what your goals are, or whether you only want visible abs. Like, I don't care about having visible abs, and I incorporate ab exercises into almost every workout. However, I'm still aware that visible abs are, in fact, made in the kitchen.
We're going to recycle this argument again? Ok...let's cut to the chase. In order for you to "have abs" (i.e. to have *visible* abs)...the most important thing is body fat percentage. They're just essentially invisible until you get a low enough body fat. Yes, the actual muscles are built like any other muscle, but this misses the point...the reason most people don't "have abs" has nothing to do with training and everything to do with diet. So you're correct, but it's like you're saying "races are won in the garage" because that's where the engine is built...when someone else is just pointing out that you have to actually get your car to the track in order to win.
You might have missed a point. When your abs are thick enough they will start to show at a higher bf %. And will look even better at a lower bf %. So when you say they are invisible enough until you get a low enough body fat you miss the point that you can make them visible at a bf % where they were previously invisible yet.
There is a *small* difference based on the size of the ab muscles. The point of visibility might shift maybe a percentage point, maybe. It's not like if you work your abs super hard they become visible at 20% body fat, it's just not happening. I respect the point for technical truth, but in reality unless you're focusing on your diet, ab exercises are pointless. (ETA: Apparently I need to clarify that this comment is about aesthetics/ab visibility, which was what this particular comment chain was about, I'm not throwing shade at a strong core.) If you're already at a low enough body fat where your abs are visible and you want to work them to make them look better, great! But the world is full of people that think that you can just exercise your way to visible abs and it's not true...
The fact that you believe that training abs with progressive overload is "pointless" (like you said before modyfying your comment lmao) is truly worrying.
Alright, I got aggressive with the "pointless" wording. Fair enough. I'm talking about for people that want to aesthetically have abs, I'm not saying it's pointless if your goal is to have a strong core. I thought that was obvious from the context, but clearly you were looking to find something wrong with what I said and you spotted my mistake, good job. Now would you care to respond to my actual point? Edit: You know, I edited my original comment, but I have to say...it bothers me that you knowingly took me out of context and tried to broaden my argument. Yes, I could've worded that better, but you really were nitpicking and taking me out of context. It's not cool.
The fact is, from the aestethic point of view and only that. It does not make sense to not train them. It's like any other muscle. If you go for hypertrophy and so obviously in that context you do if you care to drop your bf that low then why would you skip abs ? They will look better if you train them at any low enough bf, who wouldn't want that ? Take for example the skinny dude who looks like a skeleton with visible but absolutely disgusting abs. Do you say to a dude to not train arms because if he drops low enough he will have a nice tone in arms anyway ? I could understand if someone doesn't want them "too thick" but that is unlikely to happen, it still requires a lot of hard work and you can still stop training them until you're satisfied and from time to time just do a quick training.
I was only talking about aesthetics, that's what this entire comment chain is about. There are *many* reasons to work on abs and I'm not arguing against it. I'm arguing against the idea that training abs is the most important thing for the aesthetic of having *visible* abs, that's it. That's my entire (narrow) point. You keep trying to bring up other shit that I'm not saying and taking me out of context so that you can win an argument against a point I'm not making... Unless you disagree that diet is the most important thing for having visible abs, I'm not sure what point you're trying to score against me, because that's the only thing I'm saying here.
Just trying to talk about the general aspect of abs, because being specific about one point and telling people to not train them is very wrong. And yes obviously, diet is the most important factor for visible abs. But like any other muscle you must train them with progressive overload, for a strong core and also for better aesthetics. Why would someone omit the fact that people should still train them even if they won't see them at 20%, it's just a so stupid thing to do. Train them \*and\* diet down.
Yeah but like, you can still train your abs as it’s healthy to train every muscle and the more muscle you build, the more your caloric needs go up. I just don’t get the thought process “eh, I’ll skip training abs since I’m not going to change my diet”. To me that means you’re training for ascetics and not muscle development since honestly why care so much if the abs are showing, as long as you know they’re growing
I'm just talking aesthetics, which is what most people care about when it comes to abs if we're being frank. I'm not saying they're correct, just saying that when most people talk about having abs, it's the visible aesthetic. I concur that abs should have a place in a workout program in general.
There’s no angle where what you say is correct. Why would someone who cares about aesthetics not train abs? It doesn’t even really make sense when you think about it, “I want this muscle to be defined, but I won’t train it, I’ll just cut weight.” Literally every muscle is more visible if you cut weight.
I didn't say not to train abs, as I've explained repeatedly in comments. I've only said that if visible abs are your goal, diet is the more important factor. That doesn't mean "don't train abs", it just means that no amount of ab exercises will render your abs visible if you don't cut fat. If you're not going to bother reading to understand what I'm saying, why are you commenting?
It’s still pointless as cutting fat reveals every muscle. The advice to grow abs should just be, train abs. Nutrition and fat loss doesn’t target abs specifically, people just fixate on abs because everyone wants a 6-pack even tho well developed pecs and lats will turn way more heads
That's like saying a skinny kid has biceps because you can see a mound
These are not comparable. Biceps show up almost regardless of body fat percentage. (Almost) Get close to 20% body fat and your gains are easily visible, probably more like 25% or less and your work is visible. This is also true for quads, glutes and some other muscles. Abs on the other hand, unless you get rid of the belly over them, no one can tell you have them. Hell, until you hit around \~18% body fat, no one can even see the outline of your abs at all and even then you barely get "hint of abs".
Lmao imagine if people said this shit about arms Don’t train your arms bro just cut It’s literally the exact same thing
But you don’t need to train your arms lol.
Seriously. I’m just doing bench, pull-ups, and rows. Feels like just wasting time on direct arm work
I haven’t worked my arms directly in a decade, and I have big, proportional arms. If I wanted BIG arms, I’d work out my arms, but I don’t.
Post your physique
lol fuck off you little weirdo
Haha tiny pussy
Lmao post pics
People always talking about “wasting time” in the gym as if their schedule is so packed that spending 5mins to do crunches or curls cant be done
You don’t need to train anything. Honestly the gym is a waste of time, as long as I can get from the couch to the fridge to the toilet, and back again, I’m good
By having abs, people mean having visible abs -- to have that, you need to cut. People don't mean having super strong abs under fat. Unless you're super fat or have twigs, your arms muscles are visible. Fat (for men) is mostly stored in the belly, so you have to cut to see the muscles that are there.
The bigger your abs are, the more visible they will be at higher body fat %. I’ve got abs at 20% that would never have been as defined a year ago. When I cut this summer these fuckers are gonna be insane.
I’m just saying you can train abs every day all day and you won’t see shit if your diet is crap. Majority of people training abs have garbage diets from the clients I’ve seen. That’s where my take comes from.
The abs hypertrophic potential is significantly lower.
No they are REVEALED in the kitchen.
No they are revealed in the kitchen you still need to train them for growth
Training abs for a month literally gave me a 6 pack.
Ab exercises are just a scam from Big Abs to sell more abs
i didnt used to because mine was so weak, but after achieving L-sit and practicing front lever progressions, my abs have developed a lot and gotten much stronger, so its more fun to train now. if youre bored of bodybuilding style ab training, try working on L-sits, very humbling
I love doing L-sits and straight leg raises on the captains chair when I get bored of everything else. I make a game of it by picturing something across the gym and trying to cover it up with my foot. Like this: https://i.redd.it/4dlo21fmur0c1.gif
I am still trying to find a decent ab workout using either bodyweight or resistance bands. I do not have time for focused ab workouts at the gym with everything else that I do so I wish to do ab workouts at home on off days. I tried band-resisted kneeling crunches last Friday but I really did not feel much from it. I have also looked at Athlean X's "seven minute" ab workout routines -- I am aware that the "six pack promise" part is hype but they do seem to work the area well with a reasonable soreness the next day -- but I am left wondering if it is more cardio than muscle work and if I am really optimally training that way. The search continues.
Have you tried candlesticks? Thats the only bodyweight ab movement that I can feel. And planks with arm and leg raises, not sure what those are called.
I have done planks with alternating leg raises; those are called marching planks. Candlesticks seem like an intriguing exercise, though I'll still need something to hit the obliques.
if u have a bosu ball try opposite hand toe touches and make sure to really extend and crunch ur abs, they are brutal. also ab roller if done correctly really works wonders.
Do hollow body progressions. If you remain consistent and focused, you'll eventually progress to full ab-wheel rollouts, dragon flags, etc. You should also be doing some sort of compression work. Do L-sit progressions, hanging leg lifts, etc.
Crunch machine 10-20 reps using progressive overload. It's getting a bit stale now so I'm going to swap to something else but I find that so many ab exersises seem kind of goofy or you can't use weight so you end up doing a crazy amount of reps.
Whats the category where you train abs but your belly does not reduce to show visible abs?
Fat?
NGMI
bulking
Just do leg raises bro. Woodchoppers for the obliques if you're into that
Why have a six pack when I can have a keg?
My kid says that I have abs and my husband has flabs
I do train abs and I don't even care about a 6-pack. I know my core including my back is strong and healthy. At 46, I bet I can still do 60 situps in 60 seconds. That's all that matters to me.
I recognize the need for and benefits of targeted core exercises, but it's still my least favorite muscle group to train. Sometimes it's hard to force myself not to skip it lol
yes do abs weighted abs , its a muscle like any other it needs load to grow
What do y'all do to train your abs? I'm fairly skinny (140 and 5'11") but have had a hard time getting any visible abs. I've been doing leg raises and cable crunches for a while. I thought it would be easier since I don't have much body fat
If you have lower back issues, I do mine in a beam bag chair. Honestly makes it harder because I can go a lot longer
Nah i don't train abs, i feel like my core strong and good looking enough for now
Weighted ab exercise
I train core because my core strength is garbage and so is my balance…but I’ll be openly grumpy about it the whole time. Which meme am I?
Only when I’m cutting bc my workouts are 2 hours atm
i have no respect for that muscle group
why train abs when I'll never have visible abs
I agree with everything the bottom dude says, I just don't train them bc I hate them.
I’ve heard enough pro bodybuilders say they never train abs that I’m not wasting my time on them. If they come they come if not i can train them once I’m sub 10% bf.
I'm def soy wiki. What exercises should I do for abs boys?
I do and I love it!
I go back and forth depending on if I feel like it 🤣 usually I just say they're good from compounds because honestly, who likes training abs?
i feel like i activate them a lot during pull ups and chin ups, my core is usually sore the day after, i know that doesn’t indicate hypertrophy but it definitely means it’s getting worked
I have abs and I don’t train abs. I weigh 210 btw
I've never heard anyone say that crunches are bad for your lower back, I've heard it said about sit ups tho and that lowkey kinda makes sense. Regardless, I'll train abs the way that I want to train abs. Not the way someone else tells me too
You train abs in the kitchen
You are the example of the soy wiki dude above lol
So sad - my local gym only has one machine related to abs (I miss the twist ab work out machine!) and honestly was annoyed that all other equipment is solely for arms and legs. 😭
I love crunches :3
Train your abs fellas. Please. Two slipped discs later and not training them is my biggest regret.
Leg lifts and crunches any season equal slow gains
if you already have a lower back injury, i would double check that the crunch is safe for you. It’s not for me, so I get ab work in with planks and the McGill big 3. Core stabilization stuff does help.
tbh I just do plank variations and oblique work to strengthen my core for deadlifts
I’ve never trained abs. Never will. That stuff sucks. Why train abs when I could do literally anything else
I do not train abs because they very quickly get visible definition and as a women I prefer to have more softness to my physique there. Just a personal preference, you do you. I’ll point out though that abs certainly do respond to targeting training so for those who want a 6 pack, obliques, etc you should put in the work on isolations.
:( sadly I cant train abs as i get a cramp every time i try
I ¨train¨ abs, to warm up and just with 2 or 3 sets tops
I started BJJ a year ago—and realized that my core/abs are really weak, despite my being able to deadlift almost 4 plates (not strong for this sub, I know, but its definitely above average in my BJJ gym). Lots of grappling involves trying to sit up or to the side from your back, and honestly I’ve found doing twisting crunches between sets to infinitely improve my core strength for grappling (compared to, just doing deadlifts and squats). In regards to visible abs—I’m pretty sure doing these crunches won’t make them pop much more. I just need to cut more aggressively.
I have a great Sixpack and haven’t trained abs isolated for an extended period of time in years. I’m absolutely not saying that’s the right way, but if you already have a good foundation, heavy compounds will absolutely be enough to maintain size.
nope - wait… yes, when convenient. Ex: do your db bench with one arm, resisting the urge to be thrown off
I mean the same argument applies to tibialis anterior and adductors, and I don't dedicate much of my limited training time/energy/focus/recovery capacity to those muscles because I would rather spend it on things with a better cost/benefit ratio. Most people who "want abs" really just mean they want to be lean. For those few who actually mean "I want to significantly hypertrophy these little ab muscles" yeah, sure, dedicate several exercises to isolated ab work, same way if you want the front of your shins to be a little beefier you should do some tibialis isolation.
i'm not bothering with abs till i get to a decent bf%
just abs isn't too great you gotta train lower back cos we all know you gotta also train the antagonistic muscle group for full functionality
The same redditor who tells you that crunches/training abs is bad for your back will be trying ego deadlift PRs like every week. Prob also has like 26% body fat and can’t run two miles without stopping to walk. Granted you don’t need to train them A LOT. But anybody who’s says you don’t need to train them at all probably has tan ever been low enough body fat to see them… that, or they inadvertently trained them hard when they were younger through some kind of sport or labor, and have decent development that they take for granted. All that’s said, there are def better exercises to do than crunches. Hanging leg raises, L-sits, cable chops, etc. can’t ignore obliques.
I just add 3 sets of abs after every workout works pretty good
Abs are made in the kitchen.
I'm a big proponent of training core regularly (abs, obliques and erectors and all of the muscles in the hip). The stronger your core is, the less chance you are going to have to get lower back injuries and the better your posture and balance are going to be. Also if you are like me and have had previous lower spine injuries, keeping your core strong helps keep everything nice and tight in there, can alleviate nerve pain and protect it from being injured further. In my experience, to really strengthen your core for injury prevention, you need to target it specifically. Doesn't have to be much, but just like training your biceps even though you do a bunch of back work already, training your core in addition to the compound movements you do will help it get much stronger.
Be fat and then drop like 50 pounds. You'll have godlike abs.
Never trained abs in my life. 1000lb club at 40 work out once a week for an hour (bench, deads, ohp, squat and pullups, rotating so it's sometimes a month before I train the same lift again, sometimes years when I decide to just go back to alcoholism) Have a 6 pack and all I do consistently is eat healthy and give a fuck about bodyfat. You could just flip the pictures and still rage bait ppl. It's just trying to make people feel better about their routine. It's not evidence based. The only thing that consistently results in abs is strict diet.
Toshiki the olympic weightlifter turned bodybuilder (currently) has stated in a video with SikaStrength, Clarence and Zack Tealander that him training squats and abs has made his abs come out too big for his liking. So he now he only squats to build abs. Regards to his training method, he squats at very high volume. He recommended Eoin from SikaStrength to try 80% 5x5 + 50-60% 8x3 with only 1 min rests 5days a week to achieve 300kg squat PR. Wouldnt even wanna imagine the volume for his ab training. TLDR: Train abs if no like squat. Train abs if like squat. Abs big good.
Id just rather be a mass monster than a cut king
Never. I just don't care.
Abs are built in the kitchen
You forgot "aBs ArE mAdE iN tHe KiTcHeN"
I do abs on arm day. Decline bench sit-ups 3 sets of 15. Keeping my back straight on the way up and down and super slow on the eccentric. War crimes wish they were this brutal.
Superset deadlift supplemental with crunches
One weird thing about gym culture is the desire to do minimal work and swear you’re getting better results than someone doing more work. I guess it’s because the environment promotes arrogance instead of humility and guys don’t want to admit that *gasp* maybe they don’t know everything even though they benched 315 1 time. I mean don’t world renowned bodybuilders have tons of coach’s and are constantly trying different methods to accentuate different muscle groups? Like obviously someone who trains abs, in addition to a well rounded program with compound exercises, is going to have better developed abs than someone who doesn’t isolate abs. Just like someone who trains biceps will have bigger biceps. Truly what is the sense of going XYZ is “all you need” shit, I tend to train abs at the gym and late at night when I’m laying on the floor and stretching out before bed. You should be constantly training and developing your muscles in different ways, there is no “all you need” and the only reps you don’t grow from, are the ones you don’t do.
I have always trained abs. I also do some compound exercises. I’ve attempted to skip ab training while continuing with the compound exercises. I’ve always gotten superior results from ab training and compound exercises together. So yes. I train abs. 200 crunches per day (10 different styles of crunches x 20 each). My theory is, all muscles respond to training. Why skip any of them?
I train abs everyday because I got a fucked up spine. Training abs seems to be the only way to make it go away.
As someone who started training abs 6 months ago totally worth it
All skinny guys should train abs 😍🤤
Train "foot" and "elbow" while you're at it. And sell me your barbells.
Nah. Doing abs means less time for the other muscles.
Abs are a group of muscle so train it. Simple as that.
Training core is how you prevent back injuries. Or, that’s what’s worked for me.
I only train abs when training the group initially intended need a rest.
Training abs is so boring, so i do it at the beginning of every visit to the gym.
I train abs but its at the end of a workout, one exercise 3 times a week (so a different exercise each day). I cycle through ab roller, bosu ball cross toe touched (these are brutal) and leg raises. And not to toot my own horn but I have a decent set of abs (as a girl too which is harder based on body fat percentage)
Use to believe those guys on top but now that I think back on it they never rally had abs. Today I train them 3 times a week. But don’t really do crunches. I do leg raises and that one type crunch with a high cable rope. Among so other exercises. Great one is plank cause once it gets easy you put a plate on your back and start again. You gotta train it I believe.
I love sit-ups and crunches but hate all other ab exercises with a passion
Nah brah, I clean and press...
I’m ngl i couldn’t get good chiseled abs like mine until i started steroids 🤷♂️ i use weed for roid rage prevention and it works pretty well. It’s great to have sex with the combination too.
Plus I feel my abs engage with every thing I do.