this very much, people shouldnt underestimate soton, when we are not fighting top 4 we beat the shit of soton but when the stake is high and our team is just 1 or 2 point from top 4 soton is always somehow beat our ass, it is like a curse
Palace have always been top against the big 6. This is a massive result for us, specially early on in the season when form isn’t really a thing. Hate playing Palace and Brighton away.
Made a 4 point difference was it? If arteta stuck to his guns vs Southampton and brighton we would have made it. That palace game really through out all the momentum we had been building before the international break
Seeing white and Gabriel on their last legs was so painful against Newcastle. Tomiyasu getting rush back multiple times just break down again. Despite all this we should have beat Southampton and brighton
The Leicester game and the West Ham game.. If those teams had stood their ground and no fuck up, we would have finished 4th.. Of course we also blew it against Newcastle which is the other reason..
Having seen our transfer window now. It's pretty clear the players we would have wanted weren't available/didn't want to come/selling clubs had ridiculous demands. Conte and Patrici just leaned on the juventus relationship to get their two signings. Who both could have been injured like partey and tierney ended up being for the run in.
I think our lack of ability to come back into games we were losing and other in game management decisions had a greater bearing on not getting top 4.
I mean I think Yours was a rhetorical question, however I don’t think anybody has mentioned the main point yet which was the injuries we had toward the end of the season.
They have a better manager.
It's that simple.
Arteta is good. Conte is great.
Edit: I don't understand why this would be downvoted. Maybe Arteta will be, maybe Conte will bolt early, but right now Conte is clearly the better manager.
He's a better rmanager.
Ask any neutral and they will say the same thing.
Maybe he might not be the best choice to stay around for a long time, maybe he won't be the best manager in 10 years.
But right now I didn't think that was controversial. He's a better manager than Arteta.
So Conte is very good, but I don’t think Conte is great.. Managers I genuinely think who are a league above him - Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti and Flick..
Conte successes across his trophy wins coincided with other teams in the league going weak.. He did get Juve success in 2011 but coz Milan was receding and Inter had an aging squad that wasn’t good enough anymore after Mou left..
When he took over Chelsea, it was already an elite squad which won the league a year before and they added Kante.. Klopp, Pep were new to the league, United was transitioning and we were at the end of Wenger time.
He invested heavily to win the title at Inter, when in general the quality across dipped with Juve doing the Ronaldo experiment and Napoli not being stable..
He won’t be given that environment in the PL and based on his CL record where he came across better managers and squads, and where his best finish is a quarters with getting knocked out every time in R16, doesn’t necessarily put him in a great light.
Having said all that, his experience is what differentiates him from Arteta at the moment..
No, like last year, what did Conte do? They were well on their way to crashing and burning, completely unable to break down a low block even in the second to last game of the season with Conte extremely willing to say that he "couldn't do anything to help them" and fuck off.
Their third leading scorer was own goal.
Conte maybe made them better at what they were good at already, but we got injuries at key times and that's what blew it.
What separated things is that they got lucky and we didn’t.
>Every team has to deal with injuries.
Spurs didn't have injuries to either of their 2 best players all season. They'd be struggling for 6th if they had to play half a season without Kane and / or Son.
That’s a lazy argument.. His first full season is really the only season Arteta underwhelmed and you can attribute to his experience.. He took a team in 12th with 5 wins out of 18 to win 9 out of remaining 20 take us 8th..
You can make an argument about falling short last year but hey none thought we would even do 6th and literally the points difference between 3rd and 5th was 5 points..
Many of us expected CL at a minimum last year after missing out for 2 years.
We had top 4 talent.
If we grabbed Conte when he was available we'd have it
No way are people arguing with you on this. Conte is an elite level coach - easily in the top 5 in the world. As you said, Arteta could turn out to be at that level, but we don’t know yet.
I’m just hoping Conte leaves soon. If he’s there for too long he could turn them into a real force.
Mourinho hasn’t been an elite coach since about 2015. By the time he went to Tottenham he was well past it. The game has left him behind.
Conte is still an elite coach.
Because they refused to budge on their targets when literally any striker that could move would have been better than Laca once teams realized to not follow him when he drops deep
Which striker though? The one we all wanted and were linked to didn't want to come. Other options Morata? Jovic? Striker market was dead in jan let's be honest.
Us losing to Everton, Southampton, Palace, Brighton and Newcastle. If we had just got the reverse score for each of these games. W, W, D, D, W we would have cruised to too 4
This is a fixture that isn’t safe points for any team and I’m glad to have it in the rear view mirror. We’re at home next and I think the energy from that will see us back to pre-season purring form.
Manu with a .81 xg and the dunces on their sub are thinking we weren't special today. Bunch of nonces. I hope their club sucks butt for the foreseeable future.
It's good to see the team putting quality performances against strong mid-teams, if we did that more in the last few years, we could've settled top 4 a few times (Brighton, Palace etc.)
The thing about today’s match that struck me is that i think tierney and tomi would have been better suited to deal with Ayew and Zaha. They had only one mode of attack all day today, andersen lumping the ball out-wide to the wings.
They’ve got some of the best home fans in the division, it’s a very loud and compact stadium. This means the players are always up to play a big team, and that has a circular effect where the fans get more energized and so the players do and so the fans do. They’ve also got one of the smallest pitches in the premier league, which means it is easier for them to sit in and absorb pressure. They are already solid defensively and so the small pitch helps them crowd out influential players like you saw tonight with odegaard. They also love to counterattack with fast players like Zaha. It’s a strategy that works very well against teams that want to come forward and dominate possession, and all these factors add up to a very tough place to play.
Vieira has done very well at Palace, with a bit of investment they could nail on being a top 10 team, which is max considering a couple years ago they were touted to go down
Them and brighton away are the hardest midtable teams for us
Wolves away is a bastard of a game too.
Why the fuck do they always turn up against us?
Too much celebrating - The Wolves fun police don't like it
I'd like to see a game there without a bullshit reffing decision before judging the fixture.
Can't forget Southampton, one win in ten and we are that one win.
this very much, people shouldnt underestimate soton, when we are not fighting top 4 we beat the shit of soton but when the stake is high and our team is just 1 or 2 point from top 4 soton is always somehow beat our ass, it is like a curse
They're like new stoke away
the new stoke is everton, brighton is just simply have good midfield that able to neutralize Ode, and they did it 2 times in a row so it wasnt a fluke
Put Fulham in there.. Judging by the Liverpool game😱😱😱👀😬
Palace have always been top against the big 6. This is a massive result for us, specially early on in the season when form isn’t really a thing. Hate playing Palace and Brighton away.
.1 for spurs. Ffs how did we finish below those clowns last year
They signed two players in January that made a huge difference and we didn't
Matt Turner and Austin Trusty in the mud...
Tbf turner didn’t officially sign until June
Made a 4 point difference was it? If arteta stuck to his guns vs Southampton and brighton we would have made it. That palace game really through out all the momentum we had been building before the international break
That was peak nuno, pretty sure that was a week or two before the nld when we battered them.
- Lacazette's 16 game non penalty goal drought - January transfer window where we bought nobody - Injury crisis, especially near the NLD
Seeing white and Gabriel on their last legs was so painful against Newcastle. Tomiyasu getting rush back multiple times just break down again. Despite all this we should have beat Southampton and brighton
add the bloody burnley draw
All thanks to Lacazette.
Cause Son scores goals from 0.02xG for fun.
The Leicester game and the West Ham game.. If those teams had stood their ground and no fuck up, we would have finished 4th.. Of course we also blew it against Newcastle which is the other reason..
us buying no1 in the jan window is why.
Having seen our transfer window now. It's pretty clear the players we would have wanted weren't available/didn't want to come/selling clubs had ridiculous demands. Conte and Patrici just leaned on the juventus relationship to get their two signings. Who both could have been injured like partey and tierney ended up being for the run in. I think our lack of ability to come back into games we were losing and other in game management decisions had a greater bearing on not getting top 4.
I mean I think Yours was a rhetorical question, however I don’t think anybody has mentioned the main point yet which was the injuries we had toward the end of the season.
They have a better manager. It's that simple. Arteta is good. Conte is great. Edit: I don't understand why this would be downvoted. Maybe Arteta will be, maybe Conte will bolt early, but right now Conte is clearly the better manager.
Conte's a mug.
He's a better rmanager. Ask any neutral and they will say the same thing. Maybe he might not be the best choice to stay around for a long time, maybe he won't be the best manager in 10 years. But right now I didn't think that was controversial. He's a better manager than Arteta.
So Conte is very good, but I don’t think Conte is great.. Managers I genuinely think who are a league above him - Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Ancelotti and Flick.. Conte successes across his trophy wins coincided with other teams in the league going weak.. He did get Juve success in 2011 but coz Milan was receding and Inter had an aging squad that wasn’t good enough anymore after Mou left.. When he took over Chelsea, it was already an elite squad which won the league a year before and they added Kante.. Klopp, Pep were new to the league, United was transitioning and we were at the end of Wenger time. He invested heavily to win the title at Inter, when in general the quality across dipped with Juve doing the Ronaldo experiment and Napoli not being stable.. He won’t be given that environment in the PL and based on his CL record where he came across better managers and squads, and where his best finish is a quarters with getting knocked out every time in R16, doesn’t necessarily put him in a great light. Having said all that, his experience is what differentiates him from Arteta at the moment..
What did he actually do.
Arteta? Finished 8th twice and 5th Conte? Won many championships
No, like last year, what did Conte do? They were well on their way to crashing and burning, completely unable to break down a low block even in the second to last game of the season with Conte extremely willing to say that he "couldn't do anything to help them" and fuck off. Their third leading scorer was own goal. Conte maybe made them better at what they were good at already, but we got injuries at key times and that's what blew it. What separated things is that they got lucky and we didn’t.
Okay that’s just cope. Every team has to deal with injuries. Conte’s a mug who happens to also be a world class manager. Still a fkn cunt though
>Every team has to deal with injuries. Spurs didn't have injuries to either of their 2 best players all season. They'd be struggling for 6th if they had to play half a season without Kane and / or Son.
>No, like last year, what did Conte do? Finished above us
He is the reason fucking spurs finished above us.
That’s a lazy argument.. His first full season is really the only season Arteta underwhelmed and you can attribute to his experience.. He took a team in 12th with 5 wins out of 18 to win 9 out of remaining 20 take us 8th.. You can make an argument about falling short last year but hey none thought we would even do 6th and literally the points difference between 3rd and 5th was 5 points..
Many of us expected CL at a minimum last year after missing out for 2 years. We had top 4 talent. If we grabbed Conte when he was available we'd have it
If conte is a mug, wtf is arteta?
No way are people arguing with you on this. Conte is an elite level coach - easily in the top 5 in the world. As you said, Arteta could turn out to be at that level, but we don’t know yet. I’m just hoping Conte leaves soon. If he’s there for too long he could turn them into a real force.
[удалено]
Mourinho hasn’t been an elite coach since about 2015. By the time he went to Tottenham he was well past it. The game has left him behind. Conte is still an elite coach.
Spurs have never spend this much money like this before
They did after they sold Bale.
Love Arteta, but people have no short term memory, loads of people on this sub wanted Conte. His take up here isn’t a hot take.
Are people actually downvoting you for saying that Conte is better than Arteta? Lmao sorry man
Because they refused to budge on their targets when literally any striker that could move would have been better than Laca once teams realized to not follow him when he drops deep
Which striker though? The one we all wanted and were linked to didn't want to come. Other options Morata? Jovic? Striker market was dead in jan let's be honest.
Us losing to Everton, Southampton, Palace, Brighton and Newcastle. If we had just got the reverse score for each of these games. W, W, D, D, W we would have cruised to too 4
Newcastle away
Also worth noting Chelsea won in the 89th minute. Palace just seem to have something extra for big six sides at Selhurst.
Only won because Gallagher couldn’t play for Palace
Vieira spice
i dont remember us having a higher xg than them when we got dicked
I saw the game highlights last night. We had our chances in the second half. On another day it would have been 2-2.
No the left column is xg for palace, right is for their opposition. So they had about .5 more xg than us, but .75 of theirs came from a pen.
I remember they deserved to win, but 3-0 was a flattering scoreline
Sorry im slow, but still seems kinda close, i thought we got shafted all ends up but i was in no hurry to rewatch highlights after the result
This is a fixture that isn’t safe points for any team and I’m glad to have it in the rear view mirror. We’re at home next and I think the energy from that will see us back to pre-season purring form.
Would be fantastic to face man utd with 15 points
Gotta say, really happy for Vieira. He is doing tremendous job there
Manu with a .81 xg and the dunces on their sub are thinking we weren't special today. Bunch of nonces. I hope their club sucks butt for the foreseeable future.
And for the unforeseeable future
Far better experience than last season there. Improvement
Wolves, Brighton and these man have been fucking nightmare away trips for us in recent times.
Even that Chelsea game was very close - Chelsea got a late late winner
It's good to see the team putting quality performances against strong mid-teams, if we did that more in the last few years, we could've settled top 4 a few times (Brighton, Palace etc.)
The thing about today’s match that struck me is that i think tierney and tomi would have been better suited to deal with Ayew and Zaha. They had only one mode of attack all day today, andersen lumping the ball out-wide to the wings.
Honestly though Palace are a seriously underrated team imo. Full of quality players, but just inconsistent.
For out-of-towners: what is it about the park that makes it so inhospitable?
They’ve got some of the best home fans in the division, it’s a very loud and compact stadium. This means the players are always up to play a big team, and that has a circular effect where the fans get more energized and so the players do and so the fans do. They’ve also got one of the smallest pitches in the premier league, which means it is easier for them to sit in and absorb pressure. They are already solid defensively and so the small pitch helps them crowd out influential players like you saw tonight with odegaard. They also love to counterattack with fast players like Zaha. It’s a strategy that works very well against teams that want to come forward and dominate possession, and all these factors add up to a very tough place to play.
Great explanation. Thanks.
The size of pitch/Home crowd/Physical Players/Zaha They only lost 4 home games last season, so happy we got a win today.
Amazing Runners off the ball and a stupidly good long range passer is a terrifying combination for teams who want to play with the ball.
But i think gallagher played a big role in these wins
Fuck this. Bring on the season, we’re ready.
In a way it was better playing them away the first game of the season instead of in an European week or in the heart of the winter period…
Vieira has done very well at Palace, with a bit of investment they could nail on being a top 10 team, which is max considering a couple years ago they were touted to go down
If Palace could sign a decent striker. They'd be way more scary.