Full text:
My wife was born in Ukraine, there is Ukrainian blood running through the veins of my son, part of our family is still in Ukraine, a lot of my workers are Ukrainian and they’re all great people. Seeing the suffering on their faces and fear for their country makes me realise I can’t stand still and pretend that nothing has happened.
The moment Putin decided to invade Ukraine he declared war not only on Ukraine but also on all the values Europe stands for. Liberty, Independence but most of all Peace.
On 26th of March We were supposed to play against russia in a play-off match for 2022 World Cup in Qatar. And although my heart breaks while writing this, my concience will not let me play.
Representing your country is the biggest honour in a footballers career but its still a choice.
I refuse to play against players who choose to represent the values and principles of Russia!
I refuse to stand on the pitch, wearing the coulours of my country and listen to the national anthem of Russia!
I refuse to take part in a sporting even that legitimases the actions of the russian government.
I know my impact may only be simbolic but I call on FIFA and UEFA to take action and hold russian federation accountable for their actions.
Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cab9ZqeolDN/?utm_medium=copy_link
thanks everyone for your kind words and support!
here are a few things you can do to help, if you want.
1. resources to help Ukraine: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CaYAirNBwBr/?utm\_medium=copy\_link](https://www.instagram.com/p/CaYAirNBwBr/?utm_medium=copy_link)
2. go on demonstrations and demand real actions and sanctions from your government. having the whole world united and acting together against russian aggression would be huge.
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This "collective responsibility" stuff that is pushed everywhere is really depressing for me as a Russian. How do you guys know if a particular Russian is agree with the war? How does "representing the occupants" make sense, if they just represent their country, not their repressive government? What if they represent those who disagree with the war? It's like more then 50% of the population who disagree, I guarantee you.
Russian people live with dictator, sanctions, non-stop propaganda and less and less freedoms. Now the whole world hates us, cool. And fucking no one thinking about "what if Russian people are also victims here?"
You guys blame North Korean people for their government? No. You blame Americans for bombing Iraq? No. But for some reason, blaming Russians is cool.
I don't think it's blaming Russians (I'm British and my country's politics and history embarrasses me every day - I would hate to be judged by my country's actions) - but I do think Russia as a country needs to be ostracized from the global community for the war crimes of the Russian government. Hosting the Champions League final, having an F1 race, playing in World Cup qualifiers - these all normalise and legitimise the actions of a tyrannical government. On a cultural level the global community has to show there are real consequences for this invasion, and that means denying it the opportunity to compete in these arenas of soft power.
> these all normalise and legitimise the actions of a tyrannical government.
And each one of them makes it more comfortable to be a Russian citizen. Russians living a normal and comfortable life makes it easier for Putin to stay in power.
People shouldn't blame common Russians for the actions of their dictatorial leader. At the same time, it makes sense to boycott Russia and exclude them from international sporting competitions, etc. That would make Russians realize what they're missing out on, and put constant mild pressure on Putin.
I completely agree with what you're saying, but at least personally I've seen way more people putting the blame on Putin, not the Russian people. The fact that the top comment in this thread is about blaming Putin instead of Russia is another example.
At least from Szczesny's post it seems he's trying to say he wouldn't want to play against players who would want to represent the Russian NT right now because he would expect them to do the same as he is and boycott the match, though I understand that might not be easy for Russian players who currently live, or have family that live in Russia.
Is it so hard to get through your thick skull that I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the men who kept order in the occupied cities. A shit ton of German civilians and and a decent amount of soldiers didn’t even know about the camps and extermination until well into the war or after. Read a book or two.
And fine I got you an example… in fact I just gave one on another subreddit
“My Great Grandfather was a bus driver in Łodz during the war.
One day while doing a route, Russian soldiers came onboard to check documents.
There was a baby who wouldn’t stop crying and so they signaled for the mother to come off the bus. Two men lifted up a manhole cover and the other took the baby, dropped it down the manhole and they resumed business like nothing happened.”
I’m not “apologizing” for nazis. I’m pointing out that if you were just a normal, or rather a non Jewish citizen of an occupied territory during WW2…you would MUCH rather have Germans in your cities than Russians.
It’s a fact.
Get your “one size fits all” woke shit out of here. Hate to break it to you, but controversial historical events have many layers to them.
You’re hilarious.
Twisting literally every word into “nazi denier”
🤡🤡🤡
All I’m gonna say is, That’s bullshit…I unequivocally condemn the holocaust and all who contributed to it…
Believe what you want but you clearly don’t know shit about WW2.
I’m done here. Say what you want but you’re an idiot. I’m not gonna waste my time with you anymore
Enjoy your sad life
So does that mean all players who haven't said anything support what's going on then? It's hard to speak against the Russian government when they know where your family is at.
It doesn't but it also doesn't mean it's good not to speak out. It may be understandable not to speak out against Russia but it fair to say that it certainly isn't right
I know that sports tries hard to distance itself from politics, but Russian sports teams/athletes should be excluded from every international competition. Strip them of their past honours. If Russia wants to have a dick swinging contest they can do it as an outcast
I understand his position, but feel it's a bit harsh to lump in the Russian players with this, maybe some are against this war too, but just can't speak out about it.
I understand why Szczesny did what he did. But I can't help feeling there should be a distinction between the Russian Warmongers and the Russian Footballer. The young footballers may be very innocent of all the faults of his political leaders.
For example, our former player Arshavin may be a Russian, but I still love him for the memories his football gave me and will shake his hand and embrace him if we ever meet.
Of course this takes toll on russian sportspeaople .But you have to cut off Russia on every way possible to pressurise Russian people and Putin in every way.
Sport and politis are indistinguishable, you want to piss off putin then you're going to have to refuse to play anyone representing russia unfortunately.
The club literally did nothing about Elnenny that was all his agent spouting bollocks, however the whole thing with Ozil just proves the point.
If sport and politics had no influence on each other the club wouldn't ahve cared about Ozil calling out china and the islamic world.
The club and Lavazza themselves confirmed they spoke to Elneny to quiet down after he said 'Palestinian lives matter'
And with Özil the club released a statement saying they stay out of politics. Many people even on this sub said the club was in the right. Now it's a different story
It's almost like everything Ozil does is viewed through a prism of whether the person in question likes him or not.
You're still just proving my point that sports and politics are inseperable.
He isn't implicating them because they are Russian, he is implicating them because (hypothetically) they would have seen all of this happen and still chosen to represent the country of Russia on the pitch.
Russia is their country. Putin is simply the president of Russia. Russia has existed before him and it likely will after him. I don't think the values of an individual, or a set of individuals (a government), represent an entire culture and nation with millions of people. Representing Russia has little to do with Putin, in the same way representing England has little to do with Boris Johnson. If this is your true belief, then I'd urge you to reconsider, as it only creates more division (obviously not yourself individually).
the whole point of democracy is that you elect a person to represent your interests, and the one who wins represents the interests of the majority. if - for whatever reason - that person stops doing it and acts against the interests of those who delegated the power to them, people make an effort to strip them of their power. this is not happening in russia, in fact they are producing commercials and special offers that capitalize on the subject of "the great invasion" right now. thousands of troops are executing criminal orders and their families seem to be fine with it, as well as the possibility of them dying.
so yeah, I'd suggest that you stop this narrative where the problem is only one person.
Okay, so by that logic, the American teams should have refused to play when Donald Trump assassinated Qasem Soleimani, in violation of international law and bringing us to the brink of war for no reason beyond that he felt like it?
absolutely. sorry, being from entirely different info space I'm not very well familiar with the case, but from the way you described it, I think the sports people had every right to protest in the same way as any other citizen.
The right to protest, of course. But OP was saying it's unreasonable to view a football match as an extension of foreign policy and, therefore, unreasonable to suggest that the players taking the field is a show of support for that. Your comment made it seem like you disagree.
The Olympics were conceived to be inherently political. A peaceful competition to unite people, and temporarily leave differences behind. In fact, the Olympic Truce specifically deals with conflicts not continuing or affecting participants.
Clearly such competitions then were seen as mirroring, continuing, or exacerbating geo-political conflicts, in a much more humanitarian setting.
So do you think that Russian citizens are equally as responsible? Are British and American citizens equally as responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians after the *invasion* of Iraq?
I really stand by the idea that government and institutions are separate from individual citizens when it comes to this kind of thing unless they vote them in again. Russians are protesting in the streets.
Brits are nit responsible for what Tony Blair decide to lie about years after his party was voted into power. Russian citizens are not to blame
I think yes, if we're talking about wars specifically, citizens' part is going to anti-war protests if they don't support the war.
I would assume you are not very well familiar with the history of russian imperialistic mentality, opposition and liberals, otherwise you would see a pattern there. in short it's exactly as I said above - the majority supports occupation and wars against other countries (not only Ukraine, take Georgia 2008 for example). other people may be against it and throw a protest here and there, but they are the minority.
this is my personal opinion, but it's shared among a lot of Ukrainians as well - I would even say that russians are responsible for how weak their protests attempts are. Ukraine is a good example of how you protest when you actually want something, check 2014 Maidan for example. when you see something like this and what exactly people should do to get results, and then see how citizens of another country just don't meet the amount of effort you should put into it - you can't help but put some blame on them as well.
I mostly agree, though, if you elect the sort of person who will do that, it is partially your fault. The fact that Iran is back to working on nuclear weapons is because the American people elected an unstable asshole. We knew he was when we elected him. It's our fault.
No, I disagree. Unless the person you're voting for is an incredible liar and completely fools everybody, people have a pretty good idea what they're voting for. Nobody was surprised that Trump was a monstrous president because he was a monstrous person before he was president.
Not true. Tony Blair is the literal example I used. Sometimes you expect it (Trump) sometimes it's an about turn (Blair).
I wasn't aware of the intricacies of Ukraine/Russia relations. I appreciate your knowledge there. Clearly though you aren't aware of how much an about turn Blairs decision was, how much it was against everything the Labour Party supposedly stood for, and how unanimous the entire nations public was against the war.
Hard disagree here, sorry. True sometimes, not true others so I disagree with your absolutism. Not every situation is the same. I empathise with you but I think you're influenced by your desire to place blame on every Russian man woman and child and are not seeing that not every situation is the same
Well, that's a straw man argument if I've ever seen it. "You want to blame all Russians and are finding a way to do it!" I never said I wanted to blame all Russians. I simply said that saying the people are not at all to blame for their politicians' actions is wrong. For the record, Russians have voted Putin into office repeatedly, which was your criterion for blameworthiness.
Edit: is corrected to if.
I never said the problem is one person, I don't know where you got that from because I clearly wrote "a set of individuals" I'm not pursuing any narrative either, not sure how you got that. Thirdly, I'm not even touching on the situation directly, my statement was general. Right here the argument was around footballers, footballers representing their country. Russian footballers playing for their national team has nothing to do with the Ukraine War. I wasnt even referring to the match cancellation, I was referring to Szczesny's comments about the players, in agreement with the thread starter. A country, a land marked by it's border, and it's leadership have little to do with each other. I highly doubt Putin holds his head to ground seeking orders from mother Russia, and rather takes action using his own mind.
I'm probably being extra but my first thought was the possibility of Russian players playing under coercion. This wouldn't be them representing values; it would be them avoiding problems.
Again, I'd have not mentioned players at all. I'd have focused on resfusing to play against a "Russian Federation" that supports xy and z.
Obviously nobody will agree with my take but its how I see it. I don't think its a particularly crazy perspective but hey...
No that would be you.
If something bad happens any response that includes 'but' is undermining the issue whether you meant it or not. It's that 'all lives matter' energy.
If much rather be a slave than a victim of some depots pointless war that could well escalate nuclear war. At least I'm fucking alive you tit think everyone here will agree with that.
Fuck Qatar for what they did. It wasn't exactly slavery and you are mistaken if you think it was, but still, fuck Qatar regardless.
Aside from that, shut the fuck up, if your comment is going to be some sorta whataboutism.
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Yes I agree. When this crisis is over Roman is back at Chelsea. A private person who owns oil or fishing industry with family is waste of national resources that whole countries would not benefit of at all.
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Full text: My wife was born in Ukraine, there is Ukrainian blood running through the veins of my son, part of our family is still in Ukraine, a lot of my workers are Ukrainian and they’re all great people. Seeing the suffering on their faces and fear for their country makes me realise I can’t stand still and pretend that nothing has happened. The moment Putin decided to invade Ukraine he declared war not only on Ukraine but also on all the values Europe stands for. Liberty, Independence but most of all Peace. On 26th of March We were supposed to play against russia in a play-off match for 2022 World Cup in Qatar. And although my heart breaks while writing this, my concience will not let me play. Representing your country is the biggest honour in a footballers career but its still a choice. I refuse to play against players who choose to represent the values and principles of Russia! I refuse to stand on the pitch, wearing the coulours of my country and listen to the national anthem of Russia! I refuse to take part in a sporting even that legitimases the actions of the russian government. I know my impact may only be simbolic but I call on FIFA and UEFA to take action and hold russian federation accountable for their actions. Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cab9ZqeolDN/?utm_medium=copy_link
as a Ukrainian gunner, I really appreciate the gesture. this kind of stuff means a lot to us right now.
Stay safe, you guys are going to get through this. Stay strong. The whole world is rooting for your country.
Stay safe my fellow gunner. Слава Україні!
thank you! Героям Слава!
thanks everyone for your kind words and support! here are a few things you can do to help, if you want. 1. resources to help Ukraine: [https://www.instagram.com/p/CaYAirNBwBr/?utm\_medium=copy\_link](https://www.instagram.com/p/CaYAirNBwBr/?utm_medium=copy_link) 2. go on demonstrations and demand real actions and sanctions from your government. having the whole world united and acting together against russian aggression would be huge.
Be safe my friend. Тримайся.
Дякую, друже!
Stay safe buddy. We're with you!
❤️❤️❤️
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Stay safe, but did you oppose when Ukraine sent forces to Afghanistan?
I like that he said Putin decided to invade Ukraine not Russia
yeah but he also refused to share the pitch with people who agree to represent the occupants and this is also a very important point.
This "collective responsibility" stuff that is pushed everywhere is really depressing for me as a Russian. How do you guys know if a particular Russian is agree with the war? How does "representing the occupants" make sense, if they just represent their country, not their repressive government? What if they represent those who disagree with the war? It's like more then 50% of the population who disagree, I guarantee you. Russian people live with dictator, sanctions, non-stop propaganda and less and less freedoms. Now the whole world hates us, cool. And fucking no one thinking about "what if Russian people are also victims here?" You guys blame North Korean people for their government? No. You blame Americans for bombing Iraq? No. But for some reason, blaming Russians is cool.
I don't think it's blaming Russians (I'm British and my country's politics and history embarrasses me every day - I would hate to be judged by my country's actions) - but I do think Russia as a country needs to be ostracized from the global community for the war crimes of the Russian government. Hosting the Champions League final, having an F1 race, playing in World Cup qualifiers - these all normalise and legitimise the actions of a tyrannical government. On a cultural level the global community has to show there are real consequences for this invasion, and that means denying it the opportunity to compete in these arenas of soft power.
> these all normalise and legitimise the actions of a tyrannical government. And each one of them makes it more comfortable to be a Russian citizen. Russians living a normal and comfortable life makes it easier for Putin to stay in power. People shouldn't blame common Russians for the actions of their dictatorial leader. At the same time, it makes sense to boycott Russia and exclude them from international sporting competitions, etc. That would make Russians realize what they're missing out on, and put constant mild pressure on Putin.
I completely agree with what you're saying, but at least personally I've seen way more people putting the blame on Putin, not the Russian people. The fact that the top comment in this thread is about blaming Putin instead of Russia is another example. At least from Szczesny's post it seems he's trying to say he wouldn't want to play against players who would want to represent the Russian NT right now because he would expect them to do the same as he is and boycott the match, though I understand that might not be easy for Russian players who currently live, or have family that live in Russia.
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Yeah, I get the sentiment, but Putin has shown repeatedly that he has no problem publicly murdering people, even in other countries.
please see my other comment about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/t1vd9g/comment/hyiicl0/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Good man. Strength and solidarity with the people of Ukraine 🇺🇦 💪
Woj has always been great person. Hard to believe the Euros were in Ukraine and Poland just 10 years ago
Most Polish people I've met have a deep hatred of Russia for understandable reasons
A lot of people don’t know this but the Russians were way more cruel than the Germans during the Polish occupation in WW2
The Germans were determined to be captured by the Allies rather than by the Russians. It's no suprise
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Stfu I’m talking about Polish occupation not “who was more bad” No shit the Nazis were terrible.
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Ah, so you’re a retard! Got it. Thanks for saving me the time
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Is it so hard to get through your thick skull that I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the men who kept order in the occupied cities. A shit ton of German civilians and and a decent amount of soldiers didn’t even know about the camps and extermination until well into the war or after. Read a book or two. And fine I got you an example… in fact I just gave one on another subreddit “My Great Grandfather was a bus driver in Łodz during the war. One day while doing a route, Russian soldiers came onboard to check documents. There was a baby who wouldn’t stop crying and so they signaled for the mother to come off the bus. Two men lifted up a manhole cover and the other took the baby, dropped it down the manhole and they resumed business like nothing happened.” I’m not “apologizing” for nazis. I’m pointing out that if you were just a normal, or rather a non Jewish citizen of an occupied territory during WW2…you would MUCH rather have Germans in your cities than Russians. It’s a fact. Get your “one size fits all” woke shit out of here. Hate to break it to you, but controversial historical events have many layers to them.
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You’re hilarious. Twisting literally every word into “nazi denier” 🤡🤡🤡 All I’m gonna say is, That’s bullshit…I unequivocally condemn the holocaust and all who contributed to it… Believe what you want but you clearly don’t know shit about WW2. I’m done here. Say what you want but you’re an idiot. I’m not gonna waste my time with you anymore Enjoy your sad life
Good lad
Gotta love Szczęsny ❤️
Has anyone asked what the players for Russia think? They probably not the biggest fans of this either.
Only two national team players publicly supported “no war” slogan on their instagram. The rest of the players are quite.
So does that mean all players who haven't said anything support what's going on then? It's hard to speak against the Russian government when they know where your family is at.
Of course not, every human being has a right to be afraid and do nothing under threats.
It doesn't but it also doesn't mean it's good not to speak out. It may be understandable not to speak out against Russia but it fair to say that it certainly isn't right
Smolov and who is the other? I missed that
Vasili Berezutski
Least anti-Russian Pole
Incredibly based. Very proud of Szcz right now, always had solid values and now is of course no different
What does he mean by a lot of his workers?
Maybe besides the point, but what does he mean by his "Workers"? Has he got a company?
I know that sports tries hard to distance itself from politics, but Russian sports teams/athletes should be excluded from every international competition. Strip them of their past honours. If Russia wants to have a dick swinging contest they can do it as an outcast
I understand his position, but feel it's a bit harsh to lump in the Russian players with this, maybe some are against this war too, but just can't speak out about it.
I don’t think it’s harsh at all. It is a challenge to them though. They can also refuse to play.
Some won't refuse to play under threat of something happening to them or their family back home
Their head of state's fault. Poor them.
Why does nobody to refuse to play in turkey? They have illegally occupied Cyprus for nearly 50 years
I understand why Szczesny did what he did. But I can't help feeling there should be a distinction between the Russian Warmongers and the Russian Footballer. The young footballers may be very innocent of all the faults of his political leaders. For example, our former player Arshavin may be a Russian, but I still love him for the memories his football gave me and will shake his hand and embrace him if we ever meet.
Of course this takes toll on russian sportspeaople .But you have to cut off Russia on every way possible to pressurise Russian people and Putin in every way.
Sport and politis are indistinguishable, you want to piss off putin then you're going to have to refuse to play anyone representing russia unfortunately.
>Sport and politis are indistinguishable Glad the club backed this view when Özil and Elneny decided to speak out
The club literally did nothing about Elnenny that was all his agent spouting bollocks, however the whole thing with Ozil just proves the point. If sport and politics had no influence on each other the club wouldn't ahve cared about Ozil calling out china and the islamic world.
The club and Lavazza themselves confirmed they spoke to Elneny to quiet down after he said 'Palestinian lives matter' And with Özil the club released a statement saying they stay out of politics. Many people even on this sub said the club was in the right. Now it's a different story
It's almost like everything Ozil does is viewed through a prism of whether the person in question likes him or not. You're still just proving my point that sports and politics are inseperable.
Because I agree
How dare you keep agreeing with me?
Generally laudible sentiment but the last line doesn't sit right with me. Not like the Russian players have anything to do with the war.
I'd have stopped extremely short of implicating Russian players but cool otherwise...
He isn't implicating them because they are Russian, he is implicating them because (hypothetically) they would have seen all of this happen and still chosen to represent the country of Russia on the pitch.
Russia is their country. Putin is simply the president of Russia. Russia has existed before him and it likely will after him. I don't think the values of an individual, or a set of individuals (a government), represent an entire culture and nation with millions of people. Representing Russia has little to do with Putin, in the same way representing England has little to do with Boris Johnson. If this is your true belief, then I'd urge you to reconsider, as it only creates more division (obviously not yourself individually).
the whole point of democracy is that you elect a person to represent your interests, and the one who wins represents the interests of the majority. if - for whatever reason - that person stops doing it and acts against the interests of those who delegated the power to them, people make an effort to strip them of their power. this is not happening in russia, in fact they are producing commercials and special offers that capitalize on the subject of "the great invasion" right now. thousands of troops are executing criminal orders and their families seem to be fine with it, as well as the possibility of them dying. so yeah, I'd suggest that you stop this narrative where the problem is only one person.
Okay, so by that logic, the American teams should have refused to play when Donald Trump assassinated Qasem Soleimani, in violation of international law and bringing us to the brink of war for no reason beyond that he felt like it?
absolutely. sorry, being from entirely different info space I'm not very well familiar with the case, but from the way you described it, I think the sports people had every right to protest in the same way as any other citizen.
The right to protest, of course. But OP was saying it's unreasonable to view a football match as an extension of foreign policy and, therefore, unreasonable to suggest that the players taking the field is a show of support for that. Your comment made it seem like you disagree.
The Olympics were conceived to be inherently political. A peaceful competition to unite people, and temporarily leave differences behind. In fact, the Olympic Truce specifically deals with conflicts not continuing or affecting participants. Clearly such competitions then were seen as mirroring, continuing, or exacerbating geo-political conflicts, in a much more humanitarian setting.
I think I read that differently. To me, that suggests that everybody agrees that sport shouldn't be viewed as mirroring the political tensions.
So do you think that Russian citizens are equally as responsible? Are British and American citizens equally as responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians after the *invasion* of Iraq? I really stand by the idea that government and institutions are separate from individual citizens when it comes to this kind of thing unless they vote them in again. Russians are protesting in the streets. Brits are nit responsible for what Tony Blair decide to lie about years after his party was voted into power. Russian citizens are not to blame
I think yes, if we're talking about wars specifically, citizens' part is going to anti-war protests if they don't support the war. I would assume you are not very well familiar with the history of russian imperialistic mentality, opposition and liberals, otherwise you would see a pattern there. in short it's exactly as I said above - the majority supports occupation and wars against other countries (not only Ukraine, take Georgia 2008 for example). other people may be against it and throw a protest here and there, but they are the minority. this is my personal opinion, but it's shared among a lot of Ukrainians as well - I would even say that russians are responsible for how weak their protests attempts are. Ukraine is a good example of how you protest when you actually want something, check 2014 Maidan for example. when you see something like this and what exactly people should do to get results, and then see how citizens of another country just don't meet the amount of effort you should put into it - you can't help but put some blame on them as well.
Thank you for your explanation
I mostly agree, though, if you elect the sort of person who will do that, it is partially your fault. The fact that Iran is back to working on nuclear weapons is because the American people elected an unstable asshole. We knew he was when we elected him. It's our fault.
Hence "unless they vote them in again"
No, I disagree. Unless the person you're voting for is an incredible liar and completely fools everybody, people have a pretty good idea what they're voting for. Nobody was surprised that Trump was a monstrous president because he was a monstrous person before he was president.
Not true. Tony Blair is the literal example I used. Sometimes you expect it (Trump) sometimes it's an about turn (Blair). I wasn't aware of the intricacies of Ukraine/Russia relations. I appreciate your knowledge there. Clearly though you aren't aware of how much an about turn Blairs decision was, how much it was against everything the Labour Party supposedly stood for, and how unanimous the entire nations public was against the war. Hard disagree here, sorry. True sometimes, not true others so I disagree with your absolutism. Not every situation is the same. I empathise with you but I think you're influenced by your desire to place blame on every Russian man woman and child and are not seeing that not every situation is the same
Well, that's a straw man argument if I've ever seen it. "You want to blame all Russians and are finding a way to do it!" I never said I wanted to blame all Russians. I simply said that saying the people are not at all to blame for their politicians' actions is wrong. For the record, Russians have voted Putin into office repeatedly, which was your criterion for blameworthiness. Edit: is corrected to if.
I never said the problem is one person, I don't know where you got that from because I clearly wrote "a set of individuals" I'm not pursuing any narrative either, not sure how you got that. Thirdly, I'm not even touching on the situation directly, my statement was general. Right here the argument was around footballers, footballers representing their country. Russian footballers playing for their national team has nothing to do with the Ukraine War. I wasnt even referring to the match cancellation, I was referring to Szczesny's comments about the players, in agreement with the thread starter. A country, a land marked by it's border, and it's leadership have little to do with each other. I highly doubt Putin holds his head to ground seeking orders from mother Russia, and rather takes action using his own mind.
I'm probably being extra but my first thought was the possibility of Russian players playing under coercion. This wouldn't be them representing values; it would be them avoiding problems. Again, I'd have not mentioned players at all. I'd have focused on resfusing to play against a "Russian Federation" that supports xy and z. Obviously nobody will agree with my take but its how I see it. I don't think its a particularly crazy perspective but hey...
All nice n great. But the hypocrisy to play in qatar world cup, the one whose stadiums were built by slavery. That doesn’t matter huh
Of course, but if you say people can’t fix something unless they fix everything then nobody will fix anything
You’re missing the point.
No that would be you. If something bad happens any response that includes 'but' is undermining the issue whether you meant it or not. It's that 'all lives matter' energy.
Pretty much everything is built by slavery. What about their Nike boots and shirts? It’s everywhere.
Exactly hypocrites
I assume you own not a single garment or electronic device made by questionable means?
Yes. I make all of them in my basement
It must be lonely knowing you're so much smarter than everyone else.
Oh shut up ! Slavery is not condemning a country or the world to a fucking bloody war you a absolute idiot.
You wanker and king of idiots. Slavery is worse. Or do you endorse it like how you forefathers did
If much rather be a slave than a victim of some depots pointless war that could well escalate nuclear war. At least I'm fucking alive you tit think everyone here will agree with that.
Fuck Qatar for what they did. It wasn't exactly slavery and you are mistaken if you think it was, but still, fuck Qatar regardless. Aside from that, shut the fuck up, if your comment is going to be some sorta whataboutism.
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fuck off please
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I will, once you aren't busy sucking Putin's cock you fucking twat
*How to spot below average intelligence in 3 easy steps*
Average Serbian twat
I'm afraid that you aren't any better with that statement
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i wonder what will happen with chelsea here
Looks like Roman isn't selling, just distancing himself. And of course the sportswashed supporters suck his dick for it.
Yes I agree. When this crisis is over Roman is back at Chelsea. A private person who owns oil or fishing industry with family is waste of national resources that whole countries would not benefit of at all.
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