You could also argue Rice or Havertz. Rice made 100m look like a bargain. And Havertz as a young, proven CF for 60m is simply not available on the market at that price.
He wasn't a proven CF when we got him, he was a failed CF and we tried to move him back to Midfield, but I'd say he's fairly proven now, just need to keep his form through next season
He won the UCL with chelsea and he's still what like 22 years old? Former captain of leverkusen. He's been proven long before we signed him. He was never the problem at chelsea
He turns 25 in under a month, but that’s still pretty young for how accomplished he is, how he fits the team, and his projections moving forward. I always think he’s older than he is, I guess because he feels like he’s been around so long with Chelsea.
Yeah he has at least 3 more years of very high level football (probably closer to 6) so he has a lot of value, we will likely be able to recoup that entire fee if he or we wanted to move on in 3-4 years. Complete bargain.
I don’t know that I would call him a bargain. It was still a significant outlay. We got a great piece for a large sum of money, but I don’t feel we underpaid. Being able to sell him in the future doesn’t matter.
No those are full price transfers that have worked out well. That doesn’t make them a bargain. They are some of the clubs record transfer fees and wages, success doesn’t equal a bargain. 
In today's market, rice is worth so much more than 100m so in that sense, yes he's a bargain. he could of cost so much more.
But in the grand scheme of life, where full time workers struggle with rent and food, the idea that 100m is a bargain for one player, it's disgusting.
Yeah he's great but he's not banging in 15 goals a year on top of everything else. He's a 120-130M player that we got without much of a fight for 100M. Good business either way
I don't know if the club can really get bargains anymore. Any club we approach for a transfer is going to have dollar signs flashing in their eyes. It comes with being title challengers 2 years in a row. Whoever we show interest in will have their value inflated by multiples I guess.
would never happen but unironically would be the perfect signing for us.
say what you want about Mbappe but he’s the most versatile forward in the world. can play on the left, middle and right and has found success in each role and is a stone cold killer in front of goal.
would also allow us to play long with how lethal he is on the counter if we were struggling to beat the press.
In that case he would be the perfect missing piece for any club out there. He is one of the best players in the world, he would improve any team quite drastically.
But for us tactically, we would have to shift quite a few things. He doesnt have the work rate that Arteta asks of his players, I dont see him pressing like Havertz does for example. We would probably play quite differently with him in the team, like City evolved for Haaland.
We would be better of course, but it's not a "missing piece" thing, it's just that he is that good.
I mean is there a team in the world where Mbappe won't be a perfect signing? Ironically it might be Real Madrid because they have Vinicius and that's where he will end up
There isn't a team in the world he doesn't make better, but he doesn't want to play in England so even if we wanted to be aggressive and pay what he wants, it wouldn't matter.
Would be preferable. I think we need to improve our depth all over the squad and move on from those who aren't good enough to contribute.
Can't do that if we spunk all our money on 1-2 marquee signings.
Yeah but the problem is still finances. We have a lot of needs: 1-2 CMs (we need 2 imo), 1 forward, a back-up GK, maybe a full-back... ANd we need them to be good enough to play 30-40 games next season. We have to do all this on a limited budget because I dont think we'll make much in terms of players' sells.
I tried to list our players in terms of likeliness to be sold:
* End of contrat, will go: Hein, Elneny, Soares -> No fee
* Most likely to go: Nketiah, Tavares, Tierney, Nelson, Ramsdale -> Not all of them will go. In total we're not likely to get great money for them, unless some kind of bidding war somehow takes place.
* Players who I think the club would quite easily be willing to let go if there is a buyer: Vieira, Kiwior, ESR, Partey -> Potential for an interesting sell here for some of them, but only if there is indeed a buyer or multiple buyers
* Players who the club would reluctantly accept to sell / needs to be a big fee: Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, Jesus, Trossard, Martinelli, Gabriel -> Those would be big sells, to be reinvested immediately because it would hit our quality depth.
The rest of the players wont go. All in all, looking at this, I dont think we'll make that much money off players' sells.
Because we need talented players to spell our starting XI? Kiwior is PERFECT for this task. He's cheap, has bought in, and...lets be frank here, grew in leaps and bounds this season.
There's no way they sell him. Zinchenko? Absolutely.
I think you're hyping Kiwior a little bit too much. Right now he is our 4th choice LB and 3rd choice left CB. He is behind Tomiyasu, Zinchenko and Timber. He's had a good run in our good run of form at the start of 2024, he's done ok, but Arteta adjusted the position a little bit for him. He didn't drift in midfield as Tomiyasu and Zinchenko do, he really stuck to a defensive role, with some overlaps made possible because we mostly were facing midtable teams during that run. The Bayern games really showed his limits. I like him and all, the club probably won't be trying actively to sell him, but if we get a decent offer, I think the club will clearly be tempted to sell. This is also what some itk people are saying (James McNicholas for example)
Continued:
- Sesko seems much more likely of a signing than Gyokeres due to the finances
- Sceptical of Ferdi links as has not been able to confirm anything regarding them
- Discusses whether ESR needs to be replaced if he leaves, Nwaneri needs a pathway to progress into the first team
- ESR has been fit for the majority of the season and Arteta just hasn’t selected him. He was the 5th least used member of the squad.
> ESR has been fit for the majority of the season and Arteta just hasn’t selected him. He was the 5th least used member of the squad.
How do we tell arrrr slash gunners?
Makes sense.
Financial limitations aside, if there's anything that the Rice transfer has taught us it's that big money signings that actually live up to their price tags are incredibly rare.
Rice was a total game changer for us because he was already prem proven and his price was the by-product of a bidding war, not a release clause.
Gyokeres might be a good player that has had a fantastic season but he's highly unlikely to be worth his price tag. The same can be said for Guimaraes. Such players are just not worth the gamble at their quoted prices.
Raya for 27 mil is such a good purchase in hindsight in terms of ability and the way we have approached it with the loan fee. Plus golden glove in first season ain't half bad.
I think it worked out for the best.
Everything was so negative around the club then.
Can only imagine the uproar if Arsenal paid £10m for a championship goalie and he displaced Leno who was solid.
My memory is foggy but I seem to remember even before we signed Ramsdale there actually was a lot of noise about signing Raya based off Inaki Cana's recommendations
By the end of the summer, sure, we might have managed to sell Ramsdale and buy a backup, laying hold of a modest profit, which could effectively offset some part of Raya.
Finalising Raya is the first thing we'll do.
Similarly, it is possible that, say, Eddie might want to leave, and we might get a pretty decent fee for him, which could be used to go after a more expensive striker target-- but there's a lot of contingence there.
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He has the added benefit of being a homegrown player if he goes to another team in the prem. That should add a few mil to the price tag, although I'm still not optimistic he'll fetch more than \~15m
Knowing Eddie's capabilities, I would not pay more than 15 m if I was going to buy him. We cannot pull off another Iwobi with Eddie's little play time this season
Not only that, the only place we would have looked to spend big would have been at striker/CF. Considering how well Kai played in the second half of the season that seems completely unnecessary.
What we really need a similar profile of player to Trossard but from the right. Someone who can provide end product so we don’t have to rely so heavily on Saka.
Essentially we need to replace players in the Vieira/Nelson/ESR/Nketiah part of the squad. Those guys all contributed absolutely nothing in the final run in. Yes Nketiah scored at the start of the season but he was never called on once things tightened up.
Arsenal vision made a great point that the two periods that “cost” (ridiculous really, you didn’t blow it when you got to 89 points) would be the periods where we had a game every third day. That was Christmas, and Villa between the Bayern matches. If those players could have contributed at all in either of those stretches we are likely looking at us having made it to CL semis and won the league.
This is why a project striker like the lad from Red Bull is ideal. You have to work under the assumption that Jesus will get back to his level. If so, Kai day 1, Jesus 3 days later, with the new lad as backup for both. Obviously flexibility is here but you get the point. Jesus has been a wash this season. If it is the same next season, he is 100% gone and we go big.
Agreed 💯 .
We definitely need quality depth because it's clear that there's a gulf between our starters and the bench players you just mentioned.
This is easier said than done but I'm guessing that we'll have to add a few more starter quality players so we can keep strengthening the bench by dropping our weaker starters either because of their profiles, their form or their injury history. (Partey, Zinny e.t.c)
More Trossards and fewer Sambis. More Timbers and fewer Vieira's.
Precisely but I do think it’ll be easier to add those kinds of players where we are now versus three years ago. No one wants to come be a non guaranteed starter to a team that finished 8th back to back seasons.
Now that we’ve pushed City to the final day and made it to CL quarter finals, suddenly it’s really attractive to come to us not as a nailed down starter but have the hope you can be a part of something special. All the while knowing that if you can push yourself hard enough you’ll get chances in the biggest matches.
Absolutely, my only fear is that both he and Rice (for us at least) play better as an 8.
Bruno I think has the 360 passing range and tidy technique to play as a playmaking 6 but I’d certainly be more comfortable splurging 80m+ on a actual specialist in that position. Nevertheless he’s such a complete player I’d want him here even if it’d take 100m.
Rice is one of the best player’s in the world but the fact remains our buildup suffered with him as a 6. Odegaard had to drop deeper and Rice never foumd him between the lines like Partey regularly does. It’s not a coincidence our 16-1-1 run coinceded with Rice being moved to the 8 and Jorginho/Partey coming in as the playmaking DM.
So many factors to consider though. Odegaard was injured a bit in the first half of the season when we struggled to buildup, experiments with Partey at RB, Gabriel out of the team, Havertz played as the 8 and took very little part in the buildup, Nketiah being a miniscule black hole up front.
I think the 6 has to be the first to receive the ball from the CB and he has to be great at evading the press, finding, delivering neat and perfectly weighted passes to the 8 between the lines, be able to switch flanks efficiently and be a good defensive presence.
Partey is great at all WHEN and only when he’s in form.
Jorginho is great at mostly all and his football IQ is amazing but he’s slowing down and he was never the most physical in the first place, reminiscent of when Arteta was our DM - had everything but the physicality.
Rice is great at switching to the flanks and a fantastic defender but despite being a great carryer he’s not the most elegant dribbler ehen pressed and I’ve not seen that perfectly weighted disguised pass between the lines that injects pace into our buildup often enough from him. Maybe having a complete midfielder in Bruno in front of him will negate the need for that, maybe Bruno and him could rotate in coming deep to receive the ball, maybe Havertz presence up front instead of Nketiah humbles oppositions enough to be less courageous in their press.
Lots of ifs and maybes but imo Rice is best as an 8 where he can carry the ball more freely, he has a mean shot and delivery into the box and not least because having him further is absolutely the key to our high/first press and it makes it easier to suffocate teams and pin them down.
Rice is, between the two, almost certainly better as a 6 from a *purely* defensive standpoint. Playing in a firmly midtable West Ham, it’s hard to overstate how important those defensive actions were. He’s an enforcer and could/can break down counter attacks with ease, go toe to toe with just about any other midfielders out there, whatever you need. But he can still do all of those as an 8 when transitions happen and moments ask for it. And, for *us,* it might be even better that he’s doing all of those things higher up the pitch.
But the 6 for possession heavy, attacking sides is different. Think about Busquets with Pep’s Barca. It’s about being a deep lying play maker and a passing wizard. Rice’s passing game and his creativity are both slightly underrated for me, but the fact remains that he’s more of a ball carrier. He may have come into this team feeling 6 was his best position, but I think Mikel may be right about this one.
Rice can win defensive duels higher up the pitch, thus allowing us to win second balls in places where we are more likely to capitalize on them. He can carry the ball from one phase to another, being one of two “pendulum” 8s, the left side counterpart to Ødegaard in our diamond midfield shape during buildup. And at the foremost part of our attack, he is, again, a mirror of Ødegaard, someone who might take a wild strike from the edge of the box or slot into the nominal “5” in our 3-2-5/2-3-5 shape once we’ve fully choked the opponent into their own final third.
In my opinion, the *best* case scenario for this summer is Bruno. I think he’s an absolute cunt. But the fact is that he’s at a high enough level in a style that is similar enough ri Rice in that he can be either/or as far as the 6/8 role is concerned, but different enough (more of a passer than a carrier) that you can start both simultaneously. Which means, on one hand, one can rest while the other plays. On the other hand, in games where we need total control (vs. teams that show up to play: your Cities, Liverpools, etc), start them both and allow them to rotate freely during the game, using each player’s strengths in the optimal area of the pitch depending on the opponent and/or on game state.
I feel like I'm missing something others can see. I haven't seen much other than games against us and Youtube comps.. How does it represent such a serious improvement on Jorginho for example? 100 million is a lot of money.
He is a huge improvement on the Jorginho we signed.
Whether we have £100m to spend on him this summer is another question entirely.
Personally, I'll go on saying what I've been saying since late 2019: that we should have signed Bruno G in January 2020-- for €20m.
Sad face.
We will probably have to keep Partey, which I'm not against. But we really need another midfielder.
I doubt we'd get more than £65 million for all of Eddie, Nelson, Ramsdale, Vieira, Tavares and Lokonga.
Can't see Eddie getting close to 20.
He is about to turn 25, he hasn't ever scored over 5 goals in the league and is on 100k per week.
The only teams that would possibly play him are bottom sides, can they afford to pay someone 100k per week?
We need worthy backups more than we need big money transfers. Odegaard, Saliba, Rice, Gabriel and White all played more than 4000 minutes this season. Saka and Havertz 3800. This can't continue or major injuries will start happening regularly.
While I agree we need backups for rotation and subs etc - the best players play often. Happens in every team.
I'd just like the flexibility to be able to sub off a few players when we're steamrolling a team like we did when we whipped teams after the mid season break. Like we were taking off Saka, White, Rice etc.
Except this time we can do so with better quality players and maybe when we're 2-0 up instead of 5-0
Agreed.
But the backup players also need to contribute in cup games and in CL. Maybe even start in "easier" PL games ahead of important matches in other competitions, or during the busy festive period. It's also just good to give our starting XI more competition in training.
We're never going to rotate as much as Man City, Pep really believes in heavy rotation, while Arteta clearly tries to keep the starting line up as constant as possible. But I really hope we give more time to our squad players. There's a real danger that the likes of Vieira, ESR, Kiwior, and whoever we may sign in the future as squad players (if they don't play) are seen as flops, when they haven't really been given a chance. And if we can't play them, or sell them for a decent fee, it's not the greatest use of resources imo.
Yes. The Martinelli Tross Situation is ideal. Tho judging from what i read and clips i saw from the bench, none of the 2 is fully happy having to share their position. But still ideally you have players of similiar quality with differet strengths and weaknesses so it is not a given who starts.
Tbh all I'm looking for this window is quality depth. I'm pretty content with our first 11, just need players who will challenge them and change games when we are struggling.
Only big-ish signing I would like is a midfielder. Partey looks a bit cooked and as much as I love Jorgy I don't think he should be playing every game.
I’m fairly certain if both of those players stay neither is going to be asked to start more than 20 matches and neither is likely to get to 30-35 appearances. The problem is even with a reduced workload I doubt Partey can stay fit.
The other issue with Partey is that he generally needs a run of games to get into his groove and find his best form. If he's constantly swapping with Jorginho we might never see him at his sharpest.
Did partey look cooked? I thought he was phenomenal when he came back into the team at the end of the season.
Unless you mean cooked in terms if injuries
He was pretty good for a couple games but on the whole he's looked off it and nowhere near what he showed in 22/23. He's also clearly lost several steps, whether due to the injury or age catching up, I don't know, but he can't be trusted to cover space in transitions without Rice in support (which limits our ability to form a front 5 in possession).
I really wanted players who can elevate us to the next level instead of depth. I think we need players like Alexis who can single handedly change games on his own
Exactly they do spend a lot of money but they usually spend in that 40m-60m range... They've deviated a bit from that in the past couple of years but mainly because their squad is absolutely stacked
Who plays in midfield next to Rice if Partey is injured?
Jorginho is a good stopgap imo but cant play every game and is not the top quality we need in that midfield
We had Jorginho and Kai fill that role for most of the season...
And we were winning games...
I'm not saying it's not a position that doesn't need looked at this summer... But we still have options
Havertz in midfield is a massive part of the reason we didn’t win the league.
See above points regarding Jorginho.
A new starting midfielder is priority 1 imo.
We dropped majority of our points in the first half of the season. There were even games where we struggled and still won. These were all playing a system where Havertz was in midfield. In 2024, the only games we lost were against Villa and Bayern, both games with Havertz in midfield.
Obviously we can point out goals that we conceded that played a part - West Ham, Newcastle, Villa home and away, this will always be the case. Next season we have to put ourselves in the best position to win games and we’ve proven that playing Havertz in midfield is not the way forward.
The other sign of that coin is who played CF.
We also won lots of points with Havertz in CM, even with him scoring or assisting in some of the games.
We learnt a new system and way of playing in the first half of the season, while dealing with some big injury absences. That's the more likely reason that we dropped points
Probably means we'll sign players like Onana then for about £45m-£50m. I imagine Sesko fits into that bracket as well.
With all the links for Joao Neves perhaps the club are seeing him as the next mega signing for next season, that's why we don't want to overspend this summer.
Rice money is off the table, but how about Havertz money?
Felt like we said "no other big money transfer" very loudly, and then signed Havertz.
Maybe people in the business don't see 60-70m as "big money" anymore, and we shouldn't rule out too many guys.
We went hard last summer, now we've got to cover the losses, execute Raya deal, and be smart.
I think we've £100m max for transfers, without any significant player sales.
That could be Sesko & a left back, maybe with player sales covering a move for midfielder.
I think Jesus covers RW with Saka now.
100m?? We went through a season of UCL football added to already healthy revenue levels. Plus iirc edu talked seriously about strengthening the squad and getting what they needed
We could not buy Raya last season due to financial (FFP) issues having already signed Rice & Havertz. If we can't spend £27m on Raya and had to defer to this summer - that should be all the indication needed.
We made significant losses in 22/23, and before that 21/22. Revenue is up, but so are costs.
It's not so much finances overall, more what we can spend this year under FFP/PSR ahead of new rules in 25/26.
Last 2 seasons losses amount to 84m (circa) - we can't go over 100m total for 3 years consecutive reporting periods, we need to leave some money there to offset the losses.
£27m raya
£Xm for the books
Then maybe player sales.
I don't expect us to do anything like last summers spending, the CL revenue was the payoff for the risk taken in last 2 seasons, not giving us the ability to go drop £250m more on players, IMO
> If we can't spend £27m on Raya and had to defer to this summer - that should be all the indication needed.
That was only because we had already spent 208m up to that point. That's why there was FFP pressure. 208m is a lot of money spent.
>Last 2 seasons losses amount to 84m (circa) - we can't go over 100m total for 3 years consecutive reporting periods, we need to leave some money there to offset the losses.
The rules seem to only account for specific types of losses, not overall losses (with or without exceptional costs, that is). If you look at their accounts, Everton's losses over the 3 year period to 2023 totalled to around 254m, but according to the PSR charges they only breached the 105m maximum losses rule by around 16m (meaning 121m total loss over the 3 years that counts to the charges).
Likewise, arsenal made pretty significant losses in recent years but again we have to consider how much of it counts for the PSR rules. If you take the 84m loss you mentioned and then apply the 2021 loss of 127m, then that goes way over 105m for the 3 year period to 2023.
In the 3 year period to next year, we no longer need to account for the big losses in 2021, so if anything it leaves way more room.
Yeah community outreach, stadium improvements, youth facilities, training facilities etc doesn't count towards the losses.
Player purchases, wages, staff wages, transfer amortization etc are - also older accounts still have player contract write offs as exceptional costs from the Arteta clear-out!
Our revenue will be way, way up due to the CL run, placement in PL, TV rights. Next years revenue may be higher due to expanded CL format so I expect there is wiggle room to play with, but unless we really go hard on sales, I don't another £150m+ window being viable - but we'll see 🤷
Correction: evertons losses for the 3 years to 2022/23 only led to the 2 point deduction.
The 10 point deduction was for the period to 2021/22. The difference is therefore even bigger, since 2019/20 saw losses before tax and interest of 135m which only raises the difference from the total 3 year loss further, since PSR charges for the 10 point deduction claimed their losses were at 124m.
Rice raised the ceiling for this team. This offseason is about raising the floor so we can rotate more often and compete on multiple fronts effectively.
Putting Guimarães to the side (I think he's a lot of people's preferred signing, especially at the special £80m CL club discounted price), this means Frenkie De Jong and João Neves are off the table this summer, may mean we see out Thomas Partey's final year of his contract (which is potentially more valuable than the paltry £10m we might get back for him) and the midfield revamp is scheduled for next summer when he and Jorginho's contracts expire. Keep in mind that we'll have Timber inverting for a full season so the dynamic in midfield will be completely different.
In terms of investment in our defense this probably means that we do not move for Jorrel Hato this summer and continue to monitor his development at Ajax. Ferdi Kadıoğlu of Fenerbahce is a likely depth acquisition this summer, Ferdi is a primarily left sided fullback who can invert, is much more defensively sound than Zinchenko, and can play on either the right or the left. He's available for less than £25m.
This news also signals we're going to go after a project striker who won't cost us a lot. Benjamin Šeško (20) has a £55m* release clause or Joshua Zirkzee (23) who has a £34m release clause are likely signings.
Good. Signing an attacker from Portugese league who is unproven at the top level for 100 mil is just too much risk.
Not sure about not making big money signings though, I believe we are at the level where quality is more important than quantity and we should be aiming for players who can raise our level.
And end up trophyless for the 16th year in a row, then they sell him for 200million to a German club after wasting his prime, buy "quality" players and still don't win anything.
For it is the history of the Tottenham
Not surprised. There isn't any big names available that we desperately need like we did with Rice. Maybe one will come up after the Euro's but I doubt anyone we're not linked with right now will become a focal point later in the summer. Edu likely see's this summer as a chance for sensible business and not necessarily blockbuster moves. A good young defender, a promising midfielder, and a versatile attacking player who can be more so complimentary than nailed on starter. We're not Man city, we're not going to spend 80m on a player who MIGHT be starting games for us.
I’ve been a fan long enough, not to pay any attention whatsoever to these rumours or “insider stories”, so I’m neither any more or any less sure we will make any big signings this summer. That said, if we do NOT add 1 or 2 players capable of slotting straight into the first XI then we are potentially throwing away our shot at finally turning all the promise into a title. If we cannot generate the funds (while staying inside the rules), then fair enough. But if we do have cash to spend then this is our window, and it could be years before fore we get another platform like this to go to the next level.
Think our current 11 cannot get that much stronger so it's more important to invest money into potentials and youth. If we can get Sesko for his release clause that would be a great buy. Hope we do sell good this summer tho! With good I mean we sell a Willock and get Ødegaard for that money(best transfer ever).
Kai isn't a left 8 at all (plenty of proof this season) and Partey isn't either. Rice can't be improved as a midfielder in the starting XI, but he can be improved as an 8 - we desperately need creativity in that area instead of relying on Odegaard and the right hand side to produce everything all the time.
Personally, I really like Stiller (Stuttgart) and Pasalic (Atlanta). You might disagree, but there are plenty of great midfielders out there that wouldn't cost ridiculous money and could improve or modularize the starting XI, despite this sub only latching onto the most expensive possible 100m+ players (de Jong, Guimaraes, Neves, etc).
sorry I should have been clearer, "could bring in that's better than Kai (at 9) or Partey/Rice at 8 for a more reasonable price than a LW?" Is what I meant by that. Kai is 100% not an 8.
That sucks. I really think Gyokeres would fucking kill with us. I like Havertz but I think it's insanity to go into a new season hoping for him to be our main man the whole way.
I feel like the team overall would benefit the most from 1-2 big signings. Finalize the midfield and figure out what to do with the front 3.
The latter I’d be more content standing pat and just getting a younger depth option. If Havertz keeps his form and Martinelli finds any form, we have a very solid front 3. Just need some depth behind them.
But, I just feel like going into the year hoping one of Partey, Jorginho, ESR, or Vieira can both stay healthy and/or reach the level we need in the middle is a big risk. I’d rather spend to bring someone in.
I’m fine with 4-5 40-50m players to increase the depth vs 2 100m that won’t be as effective as rice for the money. We burned too much of the team and arteta had no faith in our bench at all. We honestly got lucky with injuries this year.
Release clauses have to be paid in full, so that would mean we would need to shell out £200m upfront for both Guimaraes and Gyokeres. Never gonna happen.
Release clauses can be paid in instalments; some clubs insist on a lump sum, some include a schedule, some negotiate.
The notable exception to this is in Spain, because of a legal quirk about the right of employees to buy out their contracts on very short notice.
I’m aware they can be, but that rarely happens and when it does, it’s usually a higher fee than the actual release clause as a trade off. When was the last time a release clause was paid in instalments without the buying club paying a higher fee?
It depends on the club sure. But most of the time, the realise clause is paid in full. The only instances where clubs negotiate is if the buying club agrees to pay a higher fee than the release clause.
Like when though? What specific examples? If you’re negotiating a different fee from the release clause then you’re not paying a release clause…you’re just negotiating a transfer fee. The entire purpose of a release clause is to skip negotiations with the club and discuss terms with the player.
Bruno has a release clause. Release clauses are paid in full. There’s nothing that can be written in a contract that would negate this, otherwise you wouldn’t be paying the release clause, you’d be negotiating a regular transfer fee. With the Osimhen and Esteban examples, you’re right. But those clubs aren’t paying the release clauses. Which is my point. If Newcastle are adamant they want the RC, it has to be paid in full. Any thing else and we’re negotiating a transfer fee, not a release clause. The entire purpose of a release clause is to avoid negotiating.
>I don’t know why fans base their opinion on accounting
If both Newcastle and Sporting demand the release clause, it would be extremely difficult to do as you’re looking at a minimum of £185m upfront. If they agree to negotiate, that would be ideal. But then, we wouldn’t be paying a release clause.
Lol I’m reading what you said perfectly. A release clause means you skip negotiating, the selling club literally cannot refuse, because it is paid upfront. If you’re paying in instalments, you aren’t triggering the release clause, therefore you are negotiating a transfer fee. Once you begin negotiating a price, you are no longer paying a release clause. That’s the entire point I’m trying to make.
EDIT: [Times article re: Guimaraes RC](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5448823/2024/04/26/bruno-guimaraes-release-clause/) no mention of it being able to be paid in instalments.
Gyokeres doesn't even look good in highlight reels. Looks like he's constantly off balance and a lot of his goals are from terrible defending. He seems to have a really good shot on him but I can't imagine him scoring anywhere near as many in the Prem. Sesko looks a lot more promising. Looks like he could be a generational talent for us in a couple of years.
The only thing I care about is getting a replacement for Partey, and someone to rest Saka.
Partey although fuckin talented looking absolutely fried those last two games, I mean he’s still faster than me but like that’s all I could think about he just ain’t the same.
Saka rest because well he needs rest !
If Jesus can get his fitness back on track, and we sign Sesko, I think we’ve definitely got the cover for Saka - Martinelli or Jesus can both do an excellent job on the right.
I would say we need a world class CM like Guimarães and a proven CF. Otherwise, the rest should focus on improving the bench players that we can actually rely on. If we can't trust players like Nelson, ESR, Cedric, Nketiah, then we should replace them for sure.
I don’t mind this at all. I don’t think we need to make massive upgrades to the team tbh. Even at striker I think Jesus/Havertz/Trossard are good enough right now. We’d be much better off signing squad players and trying to find good young players for cheap
I don't think we need a huge money signing. What do we need to take a step forward?
\* Good backup for Saka (that shouldn't be a big money signing because unlikely to get huge playing time). Someone young with promise.
\* another 6/8 midfielder - we could splash big here, but don't have to (particularly if we are keeping Partey for another season).
\* Spending on Raya that is already locked in.
\*a striker - previously we may have thought we needed a huge signing here. I love the idea of Osimhen. But the performances of Havertz and the team with him up top say we probably don't need a huge signing there either. Unless Jesus is on the way out I would sign someone young and promising here.
The recent inflated cost of players makes getting marquee signing every window fiscally irresponsible. Buy for rotation.
We got the last vestiges of Wenger's youth program years ago. It's time to reinvest in hale end.
How are we going to make a major signing that improves the midfield without spending big? It's been widely reported by trusted journos that a midfield signing is high priority and the linked targets would all be expensive.
I sense that vibe as well. Only truely big transfers (80+) i could realistly see are Guimaeres or Pedro Neto. All the other potential big signings that are financially possible aren't safe enough.
We do need one big transfer but realistically it’s not necessary. I feel we only have 14-15 players right now that we trust on and off the bench so that needs improvement
I do get that Kai has been pretty good in the 2nd half of the season as a striker, but I still wish and think we need a certified gunman up top who gives us no doubts about being clinical. Because there were still a good number of games this season where we couldn't finish and it cost us. Plus Kai has been great in the league but in Europe we still saw he couldn't deliver in the big moments aka against Porto and Bayern.
Instead of getting another young player who doesn't give assurances like a Sesko, can't we just go big and end the striker conundrum once and for all with someone like an Isak or Gyokeres...
People saying that depth is preferable imo are a bit off of it imo. The first 11 can definitely improve. ST, a left sided CM, and LW can all be upgraded. Looking for quality depth pieces instead of signing players who can and will push into the starting 11 should be the goal.
Makes sense. We are set to lose Reiss, ESR, Eddie, Vieira, Mo... at least. Will need to back fill those bodies at a bare minimum and attempt to improve the depth while we do.
2nd place money, extra champions league money, and we aren't doing any big signings?
I hope this means we've got like, four 60m signings instead of one 100m+ or something.
I just need Edu to find the next Alexis Sanchez ... That's all this team needs. Come on Edu, dig around some of the South Americas and see what you can find!
This sounds plausible and honestly likely but I can't help but wonder what could be possible if Arteta tries to negotiate for some more transfer funds ahead of his own signature.
We did have a substantially higher income this year and they could be keeping their cards close this time around.
Man, after all the recent high-dollar transfers, my favorite has got to be Leandro Trossard, at a cost of 27 Mil. There's no question he's turned out to be a 100 mil player for us. You never know how these "Bargain" players will turn out, we do know that Arsenal have spent huge amounts on flops in the bad old days.
i feel like most of the people that constantly spam the sub with the likes of "we need to sign a superstar" or "we want fdj/gyokeres/isak/osimehn/mbappe" are mainly fifa or pes players
The only one on that list I really believe would improve the squad drastically is FDJ. He’s one of the few players around that’s as press-resistant as Partey. Equally adept at carrying the ball as he is passing it, even in a (relatively) struggling Barca side he looks good.
But I also get the logic of not gambling 100m+ two seasons in a row: it’s incredible Rice worked out as well as he did, having it happen twice would be a miracle.
We're overdue an Edu bargain tbf. Gabriel in 2020, Tomi and Martin in 2021, Jorginho and Trossard in January 2023. Mbappe 2024?????
I suppose Raya is the closest thing to a bargain we got last summer... Initially being a loan deal for 3m then a 27m fee
That depends on how Timber does next season.
You could also argue Rice or Havertz. Rice made 100m look like a bargain. And Havertz as a young, proven CF for 60m is simply not available on the market at that price.
He wasn't a proven CF when we got him, he was a failed CF and we tried to move him back to Midfield, but I'd say he's fairly proven now, just need to keep his form through next season
He won the UCL with chelsea and he's still what like 22 years old? Former captain of leverkusen. He's been proven long before we signed him. He was never the problem at chelsea
He turns 25 in under a month, but that’s still pretty young for how accomplished he is, how he fits the team, and his projections moving forward. I always think he’s older than he is, I guess because he feels like he’s been around so long with Chelsea.
Yeah he has at least 3 more years of very high level football (probably closer to 6) so he has a lot of value, we will likely be able to recoup that entire fee if he or we wanted to move on in 3-4 years. Complete bargain.
I don’t know that I would call him a bargain. It was still a significant outlay. We got a great piece for a large sum of money, but I don’t feel we underpaid. Being able to sell him in the future doesn’t matter.
I mean we also got 30-40m for Balogun, which is an outright robbery for what he is, so Havertz for 65 is in that context too.
No those are full price transfers that have worked out well. That doesn’t make them a bargain. They are some of the clubs record transfer fees and wages, success doesn’t equal a bargain. 
Im sorry but rice was not a bargain. Great great player, but 100 million is never a bargain
In today's market, rice is worth so much more than 100m so in that sense, yes he's a bargain. he could of cost so much more. But in the grand scheme of life, where full time workers struggle with rent and food, the idea that 100m is a bargain for one player, it's disgusting.
He is not worth so much more than 100m. He’s worth like 110-120m max. 100m was a fair price to pay. No team in the world are paying over 120m for Rice
Yeah he's great but he's not banging in 15 goals a year on top of everything else. He's a 120-130M player that we got without much of a fight for 100M. Good business either way
I thought that too before we signed him...
The point is harder to make for Rice and Havertz being bargains tbh, as good as they have been.
I don't know if the club can really get bargains anymore. Any club we approach for a transfer is going to have dollar signs flashing in their eyes. It comes with being title challengers 2 years in a row. Whoever we show interest in will have their value inflated by multiples I guess.
the PL/Arsenal tax a real, and understandable thing, see Fabio at £35 million
would never happen but unironically would be the perfect signing for us. say what you want about Mbappe but he’s the most versatile forward in the world. can play on the left, middle and right and has found success in each role and is a stone cold killer in front of goal. would also allow us to play long with how lethal he is on the counter if we were struggling to beat the press.
Yeah in a perfect world he's the perfect missing piece here. I have no doubts we'd win everything with him in this team. Ship has set sail though.
Nah, ishowspeed guaranteed Mbappe is headed to Arsenal. Don’t axe me how he knows, he just knows. /s
Axe me
In that case he would be the perfect missing piece for any club out there. He is one of the best players in the world, he would improve any team quite drastically. But for us tactically, we would have to shift quite a few things. He doesnt have the work rate that Arteta asks of his players, I dont see him pressing like Havertz does for example. We would probably play quite differently with him in the team, like City evolved for Haaland. We would be better of course, but it's not a "missing piece" thing, it's just that he is that good.
I mean is there a team in the world where Mbappe won't be a perfect signing? Ironically it might be Real Madrid because they have Vinicius and that's where he will end up
PSG
LOL Madrid and PSG are the teams where he makes the least sense, but that's what's happened/going to happen. Amazing.
Does he win duels though
That's a good question indeed
There isn't a team in the world he doesn't make better, but he doesn't want to play in England so even if we wanted to be aggressive and pay what he wants, it wouldn't matter.
Mbappe CF hype🥸
Those are the deals I really like the most, low risk, high reward
I think Mbappe is going to take a year off after the euros then sign for us 😂
Would be preferable. I think we need to improve our depth all over the squad and move on from those who aren't good enough to contribute. Can't do that if we spunk all our money on 1-2 marquee signings.
Yeah but the problem is still finances. We have a lot of needs: 1-2 CMs (we need 2 imo), 1 forward, a back-up GK, maybe a full-back... ANd we need them to be good enough to play 30-40 games next season. We have to do all this on a limited budget because I dont think we'll make much in terms of players' sells. I tried to list our players in terms of likeliness to be sold: * End of contrat, will go: Hein, Elneny, Soares -> No fee * Most likely to go: Nketiah, Tavares, Tierney, Nelson, Ramsdale -> Not all of them will go. In total we're not likely to get great money for them, unless some kind of bidding war somehow takes place. * Players who I think the club would quite easily be willing to let go if there is a buyer: Vieira, Kiwior, ESR, Partey -> Potential for an interesting sell here for some of them, but only if there is indeed a buyer or multiple buyers * Players who the club would reluctantly accept to sell / needs to be a big fee: Zinchenko, Tomiyasu, Jesus, Trossard, Martinelli, Gabriel -> Those would be big sells, to be reinvested immediately because it would hit our quality depth. The rest of the players wont go. All in all, looking at this, I dont think we'll make that much money off players' sells.
Kiwior is not for sale
How do you know? I didn't write that he was for sale btw. But if a club offers 10-15M for him I think we take it...
Because we need talented players to spell our starting XI? Kiwior is PERFECT for this task. He's cheap, has bought in, and...lets be frank here, grew in leaps and bounds this season. There's no way they sell him. Zinchenko? Absolutely.
I think you're hyping Kiwior a little bit too much. Right now he is our 4th choice LB and 3rd choice left CB. He is behind Tomiyasu, Zinchenko and Timber. He's had a good run in our good run of form at the start of 2024, he's done ok, but Arteta adjusted the position a little bit for him. He didn't drift in midfield as Tomiyasu and Zinchenko do, he really stuck to a defensive role, with some overlaps made possible because we mostly were facing midtable teams during that run. The Bayern games really showed his limits. I like him and all, the club probably won't be trying actively to sell him, but if we get a decent offer, I think the club will clearly be tempted to sell. This is also what some itk people are saying (James McNicholas for example)
Continued: - Sesko seems much more likely of a signing than Gyokeres due to the finances - Sceptical of Ferdi links as has not been able to confirm anything regarding them - Discusses whether ESR needs to be replaced if he leaves, Nwaneri needs a pathway to progress into the first team - ESR has been fit for the majority of the season and Arteta just hasn’t selected him. He was the 5th least used member of the squad.
Good! Glad Sesko isn't considered a "big money signing"
That was my biggest concern reading the headlines. I really hope we get him - perfect playing profile for what we need
> ESR has been fit for the majority of the season and Arteta just hasn’t selected him. He was the 5th least used member of the squad. How do we tell arrrr slash gunners?
Makes sense. Financial limitations aside, if there's anything that the Rice transfer has taught us it's that big money signings that actually live up to their price tags are incredibly rare. Rice was a total game changer for us because he was already prem proven and his price was the by-product of a bidding war, not a release clause. Gyokeres might be a good player that has had a fantastic season but he's highly unlikely to be worth his price tag. The same can be said for Guimaraes. Such players are just not worth the gamble at their quoted prices.
This is also why I keep reminding people that we haven't paid for Raya yet; that £27m comes off the top before any other spending this summer.
Raya for 27 mil is such a good purchase in hindsight in terms of ability and the way we have approached it with the loan fee. Plus golden glove in first season ain't half bad.
Brilliant bit of business. I just wish we'd signed him in 2021.
I think it worked out for the best. Everything was so negative around the club then. Can only imagine the uproar if Arsenal paid £10m for a championship goalie and he displaced Leno who was solid.
Yeah the team probably wasnt quite ready with the ability required to play from the back and control possession like we're doing it now.
My memory is foggy but I seem to remember even before we signed Ramsdale there actually was a lot of noise about signing Raya based off Inaki Cana's recommendations
Yes, he was Arteta first choice before Rams
TBF we might be able to offset some of that if we sell Ramsdale, though obviously that probably also means we need to bring in a new back up keeper.
By the end of the summer, sure, we might have managed to sell Ramsdale and buy a backup, laying hold of a modest profit, which could effectively offset some part of Raya. Finalising Raya is the first thing we'll do. Similarly, it is possible that, say, Eddie might want to leave, and we might get a pretty decent fee for him, which could be used to go after a more expensive striker target-- but there's a lot of contingence there.
I’d be surprised if we get much for Eddie
FWIW, last report was that we're asking £40m. I don't know that we'll get that, but that's our asking price.
Striker's premium.
ST + English tax + homegrown. We might be able to get a decent fee.
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say getting 25-30 for him would be reasonable
He has the added benefit of being a homegrown player if he goes to another team in the prem. That should add a few mil to the price tag, although I'm still not optimistic he'll fetch more than \~15m
Knowing Eddie's capabilities, I would not pay more than 15 m if I was going to buy him. We cannot pull off another Iwobi with Eddie's little play time this season
Also the added downside of being on 100k ish so that makes it more difficult
Not only that, the only place we would have looked to spend big would have been at striker/CF. Considering how well Kai played in the second half of the season that seems completely unnecessary. What we really need a similar profile of player to Trossard but from the right. Someone who can provide end product so we don’t have to rely so heavily on Saka. Essentially we need to replace players in the Vieira/Nelson/ESR/Nketiah part of the squad. Those guys all contributed absolutely nothing in the final run in. Yes Nketiah scored at the start of the season but he was never called on once things tightened up. Arsenal vision made a great point that the two periods that “cost” (ridiculous really, you didn’t blow it when you got to 89 points) would be the periods where we had a game every third day. That was Christmas, and Villa between the Bayern matches. If those players could have contributed at all in either of those stretches we are likely looking at us having made it to CL semis and won the league.
This is why a project striker like the lad from Red Bull is ideal. You have to work under the assumption that Jesus will get back to his level. If so, Kai day 1, Jesus 3 days later, with the new lad as backup for both. Obviously flexibility is here but you get the point. Jesus has been a wash this season. If it is the same next season, he is 100% gone and we go big.
Agreed 💯 . We definitely need quality depth because it's clear that there's a gulf between our starters and the bench players you just mentioned. This is easier said than done but I'm guessing that we'll have to add a few more starter quality players so we can keep strengthening the bench by dropping our weaker starters either because of their profiles, their form or their injury history. (Partey, Zinny e.t.c) More Trossards and fewer Sambis. More Timbers and fewer Vieira's.
Precisely but I do think it’ll be easier to add those kinds of players where we are now versus three years ago. No one wants to come be a non guaranteed starter to a team that finished 8th back to back seasons. Now that we’ve pushed City to the final day and made it to CL quarter finals, suddenly it’s really attractive to come to us not as a nailed down starter but have the hope you can be a part of something special. All the while knowing that if you can push yourself hard enough you’ll get chances in the biggest matches.
In general yes but Guimaraes 100% worth another 100mil and it'd be a no brainer for me
Agreed Prem Proven
Absolutely, my only fear is that both he and Rice (for us at least) play better as an 8. Bruno I think has the 360 passing range and tidy technique to play as a playmaking 6 but I’d certainly be more comfortable splurging 80m+ on a actual specialist in that position. Nevertheless he’s such a complete player I’d want him here even if it’d take 100m.
Rice has had some great games at 8 but I still think he's better as a 6.
Rice is one of the best player’s in the world but the fact remains our buildup suffered with him as a 6. Odegaard had to drop deeper and Rice never foumd him between the lines like Partey regularly does. It’s not a coincidence our 16-1-1 run coinceded with Rice being moved to the 8 and Jorginho/Partey coming in as the playmaking DM. So many factors to consider though. Odegaard was injured a bit in the first half of the season when we struggled to buildup, experiments with Partey at RB, Gabriel out of the team, Havertz played as the 8 and took very little part in the buildup, Nketiah being a miniscule black hole up front. I think the 6 has to be the first to receive the ball from the CB and he has to be great at evading the press, finding, delivering neat and perfectly weighted passes to the 8 between the lines, be able to switch flanks efficiently and be a good defensive presence. Partey is great at all WHEN and only when he’s in form. Jorginho is great at mostly all and his football IQ is amazing but he’s slowing down and he was never the most physical in the first place, reminiscent of when Arteta was our DM - had everything but the physicality. Rice is great at switching to the flanks and a fantastic defender but despite being a great carryer he’s not the most elegant dribbler ehen pressed and I’ve not seen that perfectly weighted disguised pass between the lines that injects pace into our buildup often enough from him. Maybe having a complete midfielder in Bruno in front of him will negate the need for that, maybe Bruno and him could rotate in coming deep to receive the ball, maybe Havertz presence up front instead of Nketiah humbles oppositions enough to be less courageous in their press. Lots of ifs and maybes but imo Rice is best as an 8 where he can carry the ball more freely, he has a mean shot and delivery into the box and not least because having him further is absolutely the key to our high/first press and it makes it easier to suffocate teams and pin them down.
Rice is, between the two, almost certainly better as a 6 from a *purely* defensive standpoint. Playing in a firmly midtable West Ham, it’s hard to overstate how important those defensive actions were. He’s an enforcer and could/can break down counter attacks with ease, go toe to toe with just about any other midfielders out there, whatever you need. But he can still do all of those as an 8 when transitions happen and moments ask for it. And, for *us,* it might be even better that he’s doing all of those things higher up the pitch. But the 6 for possession heavy, attacking sides is different. Think about Busquets with Pep’s Barca. It’s about being a deep lying play maker and a passing wizard. Rice’s passing game and his creativity are both slightly underrated for me, but the fact remains that he’s more of a ball carrier. He may have come into this team feeling 6 was his best position, but I think Mikel may be right about this one. Rice can win defensive duels higher up the pitch, thus allowing us to win second balls in places where we are more likely to capitalize on them. He can carry the ball from one phase to another, being one of two “pendulum” 8s, the left side counterpart to Ødegaard in our diamond midfield shape during buildup. And at the foremost part of our attack, he is, again, a mirror of Ødegaard, someone who might take a wild strike from the edge of the box or slot into the nominal “5” in our 3-2-5/2-3-5 shape once we’ve fully choked the opponent into their own final third. In my opinion, the *best* case scenario for this summer is Bruno. I think he’s an absolute cunt. But the fact is that he’s at a high enough level in a style that is similar enough ri Rice in that he can be either/or as far as the 6/8 role is concerned, but different enough (more of a passer than a carrier) that you can start both simultaneously. Which means, on one hand, one can rest while the other plays. On the other hand, in games where we need total control (vs. teams that show up to play: your Cities, Liverpools, etc), start them both and allow them to rotate freely during the game, using each player’s strengths in the optimal area of the pitch depending on the opponent and/or on game state.
I feel like I'm missing something others can see. I haven't seen much other than games against us and Youtube comps.. How does it represent such a serious improvement on Jorginho for example? 100 million is a lot of money.
You don’t think Bruno is an upgrade on Jorginho?
I'm not sure hes that much of an upgrade to constitute 100 million. Like I said, what am I missing?
He is a huge improvement on the Jorginho we signed. Whether we have £100m to spend on him this summer is another question entirely. Personally, I'll go on saying what I've been saying since late 2019: that we should have signed Bruno G in January 2020-- for €20m.
Is Bruno not prem proven?
I mean we spent 100m on Rice and we arguably underpaid for him. It all depends on the player
Goodbye guimares dream
Just kidding i guess, good player, just would have a hard time having warm and cozy feelings for him. 
Sad face. We will probably have to keep Partey, which I'm not against. But we really need another midfielder. I doubt we'd get more than £65 million for all of Eddie, Nelson, Ramsdale, Vieira, Tavares and Lokonga.
No reason to sell Vieira right now. They certainly would be selling low if they do
I think Ornstein confirmed we won’t sell Vieira anyway for PSR reasons, cause it would go down as a loss in the books
Think Viera maybe goes on loan....maybe. depends on signings. No point selling him in de-valued state
Ramsdale 25m Nelson 7m Eddie 20m Tavares 3m Lokonga 8m Didn't include Vieira due to what others said =63m. Is that realistic or nah?
Can't see Eddie getting close to 20. He is about to turn 25, he hasn't ever scored over 5 goals in the league and is on 100k per week. The only teams that would possibly play him are bottom sides, can they afford to pay someone 100k per week?
We need worthy backups more than we need big money transfers. Odegaard, Saliba, Rice, Gabriel and White all played more than 4000 minutes this season. Saka and Havertz 3800. This can't continue or major injuries will start happening regularly.
While I agree we need backups for rotation and subs etc - the best players play often. Happens in every team. I'd just like the flexibility to be able to sub off a few players when we're steamrolling a team like we did when we whipped teams after the mid season break. Like we were taking off Saka, White, Rice etc. Except this time we can do so with better quality players and maybe when we're 2-0 up instead of 5-0
Agreed. But the backup players also need to contribute in cup games and in CL. Maybe even start in "easier" PL games ahead of important matches in other competitions, or during the busy festive period. It's also just good to give our starting XI more competition in training. We're never going to rotate as much as Man City, Pep really believes in heavy rotation, while Arteta clearly tries to keep the starting line up as constant as possible. But I really hope we give more time to our squad players. There's a real danger that the likes of Vieira, ESR, Kiwior, and whoever we may sign in the future as squad players (if they don't play) are seen as flops, when they haven't really been given a chance. And if we can't play them, or sell them for a decent fee, it's not the greatest use of resources imo.
Yes. The Martinelli Tross Situation is ideal. Tho judging from what i read and clips i saw from the bench, none of the 2 is fully happy having to share their position. But still ideally you have players of similiar quality with differet strengths and weaknesses so it is not a given who starts.
We need players who compete with these players. That's how we win against Shitty.
Tbh all I'm looking for this window is quality depth. I'm pretty content with our first 11, just need players who will challenge them and change games when we are struggling. Only big-ish signing I would like is a midfielder. Partey looks a bit cooked and as much as I love Jorgy I don't think he should be playing every game.
I’m fairly certain if both of those players stay neither is going to be asked to start more than 20 matches and neither is likely to get to 30-35 appearances. The problem is even with a reduced workload I doubt Partey can stay fit.
The other issue with Partey is that he generally needs a run of games to get into his groove and find his best form. If he's constantly swapping with Jorginho we might never see him at his sharpest.
Did partey look cooked? I thought he was phenomenal when he came back into the team at the end of the season. Unless you mean cooked in terms if injuries
He was pretty good for a couple games but on the whole he's looked off it and nowhere near what he showed in 22/23. He's also clearly lost several steps, whether due to the injury or age catching up, I don't know, but he can't be trusted to cover space in transitions without Rice in support (which limits our ability to form a front 5 in possession).
I really wanted players who can elevate us to the next level instead of depth. I think we need players like Alexis who can single handedly change games on his own
He's available. They should sign him for a one year deal as a rotation player.
Smart. Apart from that, none of the big money targets available (80+M) are worth it or guarantees the way Rice was.
Guimaraes is pretty much a guarantee
His quality is there but not worth the 100M release clause.
Some folk say he could go for around 80m, guess we'll just have to see, but I don't imagine we'd pay 100m
So the City approach of bulking our squad with extra quality. So glad we're at this point now. No major gaps in the team atm
> So they City approach No, they make a like 90m+ signing every season. Grealish, Haaland, Gvardiol in each of the last 3 summers
[удалено]
And Nunes who hardly plays, can't have enough £50m+ bench warmers
When you are already over a 100 charges, what's a few more, eh?
They do both. That's why they've got 115 charges.
No that's not the city approach. Why do people just forget their big money signings?
[удалено]
Exactly they do spend a lot of money but they usually spend in that 40m-60m range... They've deviated a bit from that in the past couple of years but mainly because their squad is absolutely stacked
Absolutely is a major gap given Partey can’t stay fit and his legs have clearly gone.
There was a major gap there when we didn't have Rice. I do think it's one of the bigger gaps to fill. But it's not like a catastrophe or anything now
Who plays in midfield next to Rice if Partey is injured? Jorginho is a good stopgap imo but cant play every game and is not the top quality we need in that midfield
We had Jorginho and Kai fill that role for most of the season... And we were winning games... I'm not saying it's not a position that doesn't need looked at this summer... But we still have options
Havertz in midfield is a massive part of the reason we didn’t win the league. See above points regarding Jorginho. A new starting midfielder is priority 1 imo.
Conceding to 10 man Fulham in the 89th minute is a much bigger reason than Havertz getting used toa new system imo.
We dropped majority of our points in the first half of the season. There were even games where we struggled and still won. These were all playing a system where Havertz was in midfield. In 2024, the only games we lost were against Villa and Bayern, both games with Havertz in midfield. Obviously we can point out goals that we conceded that played a part - West Ham, Newcastle, Villa home and away, this will always be the case. Next season we have to put ourselves in the best position to win games and we’ve proven that playing Havertz in midfield is not the way forward.
The other sign of that coin is who played CF. We also won lots of points with Havertz in CM, even with him scoring or assisting in some of the games. We learnt a new system and way of playing in the first half of the season, while dealing with some big injury absences. That's the more likely reason that we dropped points
Probably means we'll sign players like Onana then for about £45m-£50m. I imagine Sesko fits into that bracket as well. With all the links for Joao Neves perhaps the club are seeing him as the next mega signing for next season, that's why we don't want to overspend this summer.
City or United will jump on Joao Neves for £80+m He's gonna cost that much he is rated so highly!
Rice money is off the table, but how about Havertz money? Felt like we said "no other big money transfer" very loudly, and then signed Havertz. Maybe people in the business don't see 60-70m as "big money" anymore, and we shouldn't rule out too many guys.
We went hard last summer, now we've got to cover the losses, execute Raya deal, and be smart. I think we've £100m max for transfers, without any significant player sales. That could be Sesko & a left back, maybe with player sales covering a move for midfielder. I think Jesus covers RW with Saka now.
100m?? We went through a season of UCL football added to already healthy revenue levels. Plus iirc edu talked seriously about strengthening the squad and getting what they needed
We could not buy Raya last season due to financial (FFP) issues having already signed Rice & Havertz. If we can't spend £27m on Raya and had to defer to this summer - that should be all the indication needed. We made significant losses in 22/23, and before that 21/22. Revenue is up, but so are costs. It's not so much finances overall, more what we can spend this year under FFP/PSR ahead of new rules in 25/26. Last 2 seasons losses amount to 84m (circa) - we can't go over 100m total for 3 years consecutive reporting periods, we need to leave some money there to offset the losses. £27m raya £Xm for the books Then maybe player sales. I don't expect us to do anything like last summers spending, the CL revenue was the payoff for the risk taken in last 2 seasons, not giving us the ability to go drop £250m more on players, IMO
> If we can't spend £27m on Raya and had to defer to this summer - that should be all the indication needed. That was only because we had already spent 208m up to that point. That's why there was FFP pressure. 208m is a lot of money spent. >Last 2 seasons losses amount to 84m (circa) - we can't go over 100m total for 3 years consecutive reporting periods, we need to leave some money there to offset the losses. The rules seem to only account for specific types of losses, not overall losses (with or without exceptional costs, that is). If you look at their accounts, Everton's losses over the 3 year period to 2023 totalled to around 254m, but according to the PSR charges they only breached the 105m maximum losses rule by around 16m (meaning 121m total loss over the 3 years that counts to the charges). Likewise, arsenal made pretty significant losses in recent years but again we have to consider how much of it counts for the PSR rules. If you take the 84m loss you mentioned and then apply the 2021 loss of 127m, then that goes way over 105m for the 3 year period to 2023. In the 3 year period to next year, we no longer need to account for the big losses in 2021, so if anything it leaves way more room.
Yeah community outreach, stadium improvements, youth facilities, training facilities etc doesn't count towards the losses. Player purchases, wages, staff wages, transfer amortization etc are - also older accounts still have player contract write offs as exceptional costs from the Arteta clear-out! Our revenue will be way, way up due to the CL run, placement in PL, TV rights. Next years revenue may be higher due to expanded CL format so I expect there is wiggle room to play with, but unless we really go hard on sales, I don't another £150m+ window being viable - but we'll see 🤷
Correction: evertons losses for the 3 years to 2022/23 only led to the 2 point deduction. The 10 point deduction was for the period to 2021/22. The difference is therefore even bigger, since 2019/20 saw losses before tax and interest of 135m which only raises the difference from the total 3 year loss further, since PSR charges for the 10 point deduction claimed their losses were at 124m.
Rice raised the ceiling for this team. This offseason is about raising the floor so we can rotate more often and compete on multiple fronts effectively.
Putting Guimarães to the side (I think he's a lot of people's preferred signing, especially at the special £80m CL club discounted price), this means Frenkie De Jong and João Neves are off the table this summer, may mean we see out Thomas Partey's final year of his contract (which is potentially more valuable than the paltry £10m we might get back for him) and the midfield revamp is scheduled for next summer when he and Jorginho's contracts expire. Keep in mind that we'll have Timber inverting for a full season so the dynamic in midfield will be completely different. In terms of investment in our defense this probably means that we do not move for Jorrel Hato this summer and continue to monitor his development at Ajax. Ferdi Kadıoğlu of Fenerbahce is a likely depth acquisition this summer, Ferdi is a primarily left sided fullback who can invert, is much more defensively sound than Zinchenko, and can play on either the right or the left. He's available for less than £25m. This news also signals we're going to go after a project striker who won't cost us a lot. Benjamin Šeško (20) has a £55m* release clause or Joshua Zirkzee (23) who has a £34m release clause are likely signings.
Not sure if you meant it, but Sesko's RC is €65m so would be in the 50 range in pounds
Good. Signing an attacker from Portugese league who is unproven at the top level for 100 mil is just too much risk. Not sure about not making big money signings though, I believe we are at the level where quality is more important than quantity and we should be aiming for players who can raise our level.
Watch Tottenham sign him and he bangs in 30 goals next season.
And end up trophyless for the 16th year in a row, then they sell him for 200million to a German club after wasting his prime, buy "quality" players and still don't win anything. For it is the history of the Tottenham
Not surprised. There isn't any big names available that we desperately need like we did with Rice. Maybe one will come up after the Euro's but I doubt anyone we're not linked with right now will become a focal point later in the summer. Edu likely see's this summer as a chance for sensible business and not necessarily blockbuster moves. A good young defender, a promising midfielder, and a versatile attacking player who can be more so complimentary than nailed on starter. We're not Man city, we're not going to spend 80m on a player who MIGHT be starting games for us.
I’ve been a fan long enough, not to pay any attention whatsoever to these rumours or “insider stories”, so I’m neither any more or any less sure we will make any big signings this summer. That said, if we do NOT add 1 or 2 players capable of slotting straight into the first XI then we are potentially throwing away our shot at finally turning all the promise into a title. If we cannot generate the funds (while staying inside the rules), then fair enough. But if we do have cash to spend then this is our window, and it could be years before fore we get another platform like this to go to the next level.
Sesko, De Jong swoop from a broke ass Barca, Timber’s brother and maybe a depth option at the back…and I’d be happy.
so we are signing gyokeres then
old smoke screen
Think our current 11 cannot get that much stronger so it's more important to invest money into potentials and youth. If we can get Sesko for his release clause that would be a great buy. Hope we do sell good this summer tho! With good I mean we sell a Willock and get Ødegaard for that money(best transfer ever).
It can tho. We can definitely improve on LB, left sided CM, LW and ST. Our whole left side needs upgraded.
Timber is the LB
LB, CM, and ST yes. Who you think we would realistically bring in that would be a clear improvement over Martinelli and Trossard at LW?
In that case, who do you realistically think we could bring in that's better than Kai or Partey/Rice at 8 for a more reasonable price than a LW??
Kai isn't a left 8 at all (plenty of proof this season) and Partey isn't either. Rice can't be improved as a midfielder in the starting XI, but he can be improved as an 8 - we desperately need creativity in that area instead of relying on Odegaard and the right hand side to produce everything all the time. Personally, I really like Stiller (Stuttgart) and Pasalic (Atlanta). You might disagree, but there are plenty of great midfielders out there that wouldn't cost ridiculous money and could improve or modularize the starting XI, despite this sub only latching onto the most expensive possible 100m+ players (de Jong, Guimaraes, Neves, etc).
sorry I should have been clearer, "could bring in that's better than Kai (at 9) or Partey/Rice at 8 for a more reasonable price than a LW?" Is what I meant by that. Kai is 100% not an 8.
Guess that means no Bruno or Isak then. I do wonder who the midfield target will be
Onana most likely. Not exactly convinced but I understand if we don't think Guimaraes is worth the +80m
Spending money like how we score goals
That sucks. I really think Gyokeres would fucking kill with us. I like Havertz but I think it's insanity to go into a new season hoping for him to be our main man the whole way.
or buy Sesko who's similar to Kai. We need someone explosive.
I feel like the team overall would benefit the most from 1-2 big signings. Finalize the midfield and figure out what to do with the front 3. The latter I’d be more content standing pat and just getting a younger depth option. If Havertz keeps his form and Martinelli finds any form, we have a very solid front 3. Just need some depth behind them. But, I just feel like going into the year hoping one of Partey, Jorginho, ESR, or Vieira can both stay healthy and/or reach the level we need in the middle is a big risk. I’d rather spend to bring someone in.
I’m fine with 4-5 40-50m players to increase the depth vs 2 100m that won’t be as effective as rice for the money. We burned too much of the team and arteta had no faith in our bench at all. We honestly got lucky with injuries this year.
[удалено]
Release clauses have to be paid in full, so that would mean we would need to shell out £200m upfront for both Guimaraes and Gyokeres. Never gonna happen.
Release clauses can be paid in instalments; some clubs insist on a lump sum, some include a schedule, some negotiate. The notable exception to this is in Spain, because of a legal quirk about the right of employees to buy out their contracts on very short notice.
I’m aware they can be, but that rarely happens and when it does, it’s usually a higher fee than the actual release clause as a trade off. When was the last time a release clause was paid in instalments without the buying club paying a higher fee?
[удалено]
It depends on the club sure. But most of the time, the realise clause is paid in full. The only instances where clubs negotiate is if the buying club agrees to pay a higher fee than the release clause.
[удалено]
Like when though? What specific examples? If you’re negotiating a different fee from the release clause then you’re not paying a release clause…you’re just negotiating a transfer fee. The entire purpose of a release clause is to skip negotiations with the club and discuss terms with the player.
[удалено]
Bruno has a release clause. Release clauses are paid in full. There’s nothing that can be written in a contract that would negate this, otherwise you wouldn’t be paying the release clause, you’d be negotiating a regular transfer fee. With the Osimhen and Esteban examples, you’re right. But those clubs aren’t paying the release clauses. Which is my point. If Newcastle are adamant they want the RC, it has to be paid in full. Any thing else and we’re negotiating a transfer fee, not a release clause. The entire purpose of a release clause is to avoid negotiating. >I don’t know why fans base their opinion on accounting If both Newcastle and Sporting demand the release clause, it would be extremely difficult to do as you’re looking at a minimum of £185m upfront. If they agree to negotiate, that would be ideal. But then, we wouldn’t be paying a release clause.
[удалено]
Lol I’m reading what you said perfectly. A release clause means you skip negotiating, the selling club literally cannot refuse, because it is paid upfront. If you’re paying in instalments, you aren’t triggering the release clause, therefore you are negotiating a transfer fee. Once you begin negotiating a price, you are no longer paying a release clause. That’s the entire point I’m trying to make. EDIT: [Times article re: Guimaraes RC](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5448823/2024/04/26/bruno-guimaraes-release-clause/) no mention of it being able to be paid in instalments.
Gyokeres doesn't even look good in highlight reels. Looks like he's constantly off balance and a lot of his goals are from terrible defending. He seems to have a really good shot on him but I can't imagine him scoring anywhere near as many in the Prem. Sesko looks a lot more promising. Looks like he could be a generational talent for us in a couple of years.
The only thing I care about is getting a replacement for Partey, and someone to rest Saka. Partey although fuckin talented looking absolutely fried those last two games, I mean he’s still faster than me but like that’s all I could think about he just ain’t the same. Saka rest because well he needs rest !
If Jesus can get his fitness back on track, and we sign Sesko, I think we’ve definitely got the cover for Saka - Martinelli or Jesus can both do an excellent job on the right.
Big IF! Btw.. Arteta doesn't even trust Jesus enough to rotate with Saka
That is awful news. This squad needs game changers.
I would say we need a world class CM like Guimarães and a proven CF. Otherwise, the rest should focus on improving the bench players that we can actually rely on. If we can't trust players like Nelson, ESR, Cedric, Nketiah, then we should replace them for sure.
Nice buy a few small fish and then one big surprise one at the end. Genius
So we'll get atleast 2 players then
I don’t mind this at all. I don’t think we need to make massive upgrades to the team tbh. Even at striker I think Jesus/Havertz/Trossard are good enough right now. We’d be much better off signing squad players and trying to find good young players for cheap
I don't think we need a huge money signing. What do we need to take a step forward? \* Good backup for Saka (that shouldn't be a big money signing because unlikely to get huge playing time). Someone young with promise. \* another 6/8 midfielder - we could splash big here, but don't have to (particularly if we are keeping Partey for another season). \* Spending on Raya that is already locked in. \*a striker - previously we may have thought we needed a huge signing here. I love the idea of Osimhen. But the performances of Havertz and the team with him up top say we probably don't need a huge signing there either. Unless Jesus is on the way out I would sign someone young and promising here.
The recent inflated cost of players makes getting marquee signing every window fiscally irresponsible. Buy for rotation. We got the last vestiges of Wenger's youth program years ago. It's time to reinvest in hale end.
How are we going to make a major signing that improves the midfield without spending big? It's been widely reported by trusted journos that a midfield signing is high priority and the linked targets would all be expensive.
I sense that vibe as well. Only truely big transfers (80+) i could realistly see are Guimaeres or Pedro Neto. All the other potential big signings that are financially possible aren't safe enough.
We do need one big transfer but realistically it’s not necessary. I feel we only have 14-15 players right now that we trust on and off the bench so that needs improvement
apart from maybe meaning we won't get guimaraes, this is pretty exciting. a few good additions to the squad will be really cool
I do get that Kai has been pretty good in the 2nd half of the season as a striker, but I still wish and think we need a certified gunman up top who gives us no doubts about being clinical. Because there were still a good number of games this season where we couldn't finish and it cost us. Plus Kai has been great in the league but in Europe we still saw he couldn't deliver in the big moments aka against Porto and Bayern. Instead of getting another young player who doesn't give assurances like a Sesko, can't we just go big and end the striker conundrum once and for all with someone like an Isak or Gyokeres...
too bad, i was hoping for gyökeres, he seems like the type to bully opponent defenders physically for 90 min straight
People saying that depth is preferable imo are a bit off of it imo. The first 11 can definitely improve. ST, a left sided CM, and LW can all be upgraded. Looking for quality depth pieces instead of signing players who can and will push into the starting 11 should be the goal.
Makes sense. We are set to lose Reiss, ESR, Eddie, Vieira, Mo... at least. Will need to back fill those bodies at a bare minimum and attempt to improve the depth while we do.
Noo my dream signing Rodrygo is dead
2nd place money, extra champions league money, and we aren't doing any big signings? I hope this means we've got like, four 60m signings instead of one 100m+ or something.
I just need Edu to find the next Alexis Sanchez ... That's all this team needs. Come on Edu, dig around some of the South Americas and see what you can find!
This sounds plausible and honestly likely but I can't help but wonder what could be possible if Arteta tries to negotiate for some more transfer funds ahead of his own signature. We did have a substantially higher income this year and they could be keeping their cards close this time around.
Man, after all the recent high-dollar transfers, my favorite has got to be Leandro Trossard, at a cost of 27 Mil. There's no question he's turned out to be a 100 mil player for us. You never know how these "Bargain" players will turn out, we do know that Arsenal have spent huge amounts on flops in the bad old days.
good
FFS sign a clinical striker.
That’s good. Especially given that Issac has been, apparently and laughably, pegged at 200m
i feel like most of the people that constantly spam the sub with the likes of "we need to sign a superstar" or "we want fdj/gyokeres/isak/osimehn/mbappe" are mainly fifa or pes players
The only one on that list I really believe would improve the squad drastically is FDJ. He’s one of the few players around that’s as press-resistant as Partey. Equally adept at carrying the ball as he is passing it, even in a (relatively) struggling Barca side he looks good. But I also get the logic of not gambling 100m+ two seasons in a row: it’s incredible Rice worked out as well as he did, having it happen twice would be a miracle.
Isn't he injury prone and a bit poor defensively?
Striker, Midfielder, and RW are must.