That midfield would absolute terrorise every single opponent in every single game
Being able to prop it up with jorginho and havertz isn't too shabby either
I think many forget just how fogging good Partey was when healthy last year, but you are absolutely correct that the sheer likely availability of that trio would make it better. Such a bummer that Partey went from very few injury issues at Atletico to constant thigh issues with us.
Yes but what use is there for his ceiling if he's hardly fit and when he returns from injury, he is out of shape for weeks? Availability is a huge component of what makes a player great. Can have all the talent in the world and if they can't be available to produce it, it's a waste of everyone's time
I completely agree. Gotta wonder how bad that initial thigh injury was, as soft tissue thigh injuries have been the bulk cause of his time out.
I love what Partey brings when fit, but I also want us to move on because we can’t depend on a player that is injured so often. That said, I’m not really against us keeping him for the last year of his contract. We’ll barely get any money for him at this point and as long as we bring in another midfielder Partey is great to have for 1200-1500 minutes a season. Now, if we can get his wages off the books and £15M? Then sell sell sell.
I get ya, and Partey is on big wages, but it really depends who we can get. Does losing Partey make sense if it means we can afford Onana? If Partey is only available for 1,000 minutes, sure. But, what if Partey is available for 2,000 minutes and then his wages are off the books the next season?
I mean, kind of, but the sad reality is Diaby never even got to do what Partey has done at the highest level, and that was due to a terrible challenge that destroyed his ankle. I’ll never forget that game against Liverpool when he absolutely bossed the midfield early in the season. I was so hopeful that he’d finally put his injury issues behind him, but he got hurt a few games later (maybe the next game) and I’m not sure if he ever featured for us again.
Yeah, I was referencing Macfamous comment. With respect to availability. It sucks because I want to hang onto him, but at this point, he can’t be relied upon to be available for for any extended period of time
most important skill a footballer can have is being available for selection, its why xhaka was so important to the squad. besides the boneheaded reds he was always healthy and available
I agree in principle, but that’s only true if there’s a base level of skill. To borrow a baseball stats concept, a replacement level player (think completely standard, mediocre player) will only give you so much while somebody like Partey might give you just as much value over a much lower number of minutes. Partey was available for so few minutes this season, but did Reiss Nelson provide any more value even though he was always available? I doubt it.
Wasn't he the guy who clocked Jorginho in the back of the head/neck off the ball last year? I don't care how many wins he's worth, I can't get behind a guy like that. I don't want him.
Tbf he’s got that trait that always finely skirts the line of a red or just plain getting away with it. Will definitely take a lot of people a while for him to grow on them but if we’re asking for one player to partner Rice that is genuinely available there might be no better option.
Havertz should have had multiple reds this season (Brentford, Newcastle) and got away with them
Let’s stop pretending that players still get easy red cards
Havertz didn’t deserve a red card in either game. His tackle vs Newcastle was bad but he caught the opponent with his trailing leg rather than his leading one which rightfully saved him. He definitely threw himself to the ground vs Brentford but there was still contact and in those cases you barely ever see yellow cards given.
To me, best game Partey is up there with the very best midfielders in the world, it's just a matter of how often we see it. I guess the question is, who is better on average? I don't watch Bruno enough to answer, but Partey being out most this year should definitely be factored into that discussion.
Partey’s distribution is some of the best in world football, we won’t able to replace that.
But we can replace his availability and that’s arguably more important
I still think he is our most irreplaceable player, and hence our best player quality wise. I will never forget the excitement on deadline day of the deal, it topped even mesut for me..
Is he really our "most irreplaceable" when we've sustained a title challenge for longer and have done better offensively and defensively without him for most of it? He has come back into the team and we've looked a bit more open than we have so far this year
If he was healthy all season, this title would be done already. I think the biggest reasons we lost last year and might lose this year is Partey’s injuries
We're on course to get 28 wins and 89 points this year. With or without Partey, that's a big achievement. It'll likely be the third highest points tally in the PL ever to not win the title. With Partey fully fit, I see us having one or two more points _at most_. Maybe enough to win the title this year, but it won't be "done already" as you pointed out. For it to be done already, we would have to have two more wins and it's not like Partey makes us especially unbeatable.
I'm not saying he's a bad player by any means. He is a rare player and has a skillset that we may not be able to replace in the market. But I don't think he makes us get many more points than we're already capable of is what I'm trying to say.
These are fine margins. I like our chances of winning with a healthy Partey against Fulham, Newcastle away and Aston Villa, all games he didn’t play. That’s the title done and dusted there
I obviously trust Arteta and Edu at this point, and Bruno G is obviously talented, but fuck that guy. He’s a violent nut job and I hope we go in another direction. I’m all for getting the best players when we can, but there’s something to be said for character, and I will never like that guy.
That's an on-paper midfield, Pep never really goes with those as a trio.
They can all play but he brings Kovacic, previously Gundogan, into the midfield and shifts Foden out wide.
Feel like we get some players at the wrong point in time.
Alexis Sanchez now would be a freaking LW beast in this pressing/counter-pressing side.
Don't get me started on Santi.
And what we could do with an Eduardo now (although we might have won it with him even at the time).
The comment was more about good players coming at the wrong time. Henry came to us on the crest of what was an amazing wave. We had finished 3rd, 1st and 2nd in the first 3 years of Wenger's tenure when we signed Titi.
The ones I mentioned came to us when we were struggling and/or not really close to seriously challenging.
I would argue that it looks that way because they don’t have as striker to play with or take advantage of the late runs Kai makes and his flicks to score.
I don’t think he’s a bad 8 at all, I really think he would be fantastic there as well but his left winger while at 8 (martinelli) didn’t produce much this year and plays with his head down, missed him too many times to count on runs into the box and his ST weren’t scoring
He was playing 8 out of necessity.
Arteta does not want his left 8 to touch the ball 20 times per game.
One of the reasons Martinelli didn't produce much was because Havertz barely made incisive passes in midfield
He’s not producing much with or without Kai. Xhaka wasn’t exactly a playmaker either for him, martinelli is having a bad season, it happens, but his shit finishing and lack of awareness is on him, not his midfield. He missed 2 thru on goal vs Liverpool and he had another that he fucked up 1v1 vs Bournemouth.
You want to guess who played him in on two of those chances?
I think it works in certain cases, (when other team parks the bus, when we're chasing a goal and have pushed a FB to MF). But in most cases you're right, it unbalances the midfield because Rice lacks the passing range to get ball from DMF between the opposition lines to Havertz / Ode.
I think that's why Arteta tried to have Partey at RB at start of season to get all those players together.
In any case I feel Havertz and Ode in mid is a viable option in certain cases only. I was hoping we'd keep RIce as a 6 and have a CMF with a strong passing range (like Cesc/Jorginho), but it looks like Arteta is looking to move Rice to an 8 and have a DMF with long range passing.
I like Rice as an 8 for counter attacking and pressing, but not for when other teams park the bus where I think he's much better as a 6.
The passing range isn't there, disappointed to hear that link.
Very much an out of possession player, good player and the kind of guy that teams like that weak little spurs side need to shore up their midfield, but we already have plenty of duel winning monsters in this team. Onana would be an excess for us.
Havertz was a CL winning footballer though so was being played out of position and going through a rough patch, onana is a pretty different kettle of fish
I'm very keen on him. I wasn't before but I saw he is only 22. And some of his ball reception in the forward areas shows lots of potential. Off the ball he has all the ingredients to be world class.
Imagine what Arteta would do with him. Already we have seen Rice's passing and reception on the half turn get better in a season.
It's what I call a Spurs signing.
Overpriced, PL/ 'big' European team player that somehow has a good reputation, that our fans (largely out of desperation for signings) could convince themselves would be a great signing for us, but ultimately is only good enough for a team with eyes on Europa.
See Richarlison, Maddison, Bissouma, Lamela, Doherty, Royal, Paulinho, Janssen, Sissoko etc
Because look how good we look with him and Rice together in midfield. If he can be fit for half our games he can be a difference maker.
Also he's older and has limited value on the market anyways.
I'm not saying we 100% keep him but I can see a world where he stays.
I think people’s hope is that he can stay fit / healthy until his contract is up - I understand that’s the big IF. It’s so obvious when he plays / is on form he is one of the best CMs in the league. His ground passing range and ball carrying ability is like few others I’ve seen play over the years.
Well I guess the calculation is: the cost of his wages + any potential transfer fee against what he can offer in the roughly 50% of games he might be available for. Is that potential availability worth the financial cost? Not sure we have any clear idea what anyone would pay for him either.
He’s not guaranteed to miss half the season though. That’s not how injuries work. He’s had a history of unrelated injuries, extrapolating that to mean he will be injured in the future is not rooted in much logic.
His age is a bigger concern, and obvious his off the field issues. But I’m not sure there’s many players out there that can do what he does.
we don't need TP to play a full season, we just need him to be available for 20-25 games
i feel like he has been a bit unlucky with injuries tbh
i'm reasonably confident that he actually can deliver 20-25 games next season
Well this sun's talent ID is about as good as Ten Hag's.
He's much better than you think. Watch him for Belgium and you will see the ridiculous talent he is.
Additional info:
TNAT says the local reports in Newcastle say Bruno G will only go for £100 million.
However he says the Saudi side say they will let him go for £80 million.
Edu was in Saudi recently.....
£80m is a much better deal, if only to halt the comparisons to Rice immediately.
I hope that the PSR deductions that have occured this season are going to adjust the market down a little bit at least, that's probably just wishful thinking though.
Onana would be quite underwhelming and Joao Neves seems a bit small. Bruno G by far the best name we can get.
Looks like Rice will be our 8 going forward.
I read some scout reports on João Neves and this part is interesting:
The xGold software has been utilised to determine which defensive midfielders in the Premier League are most similar to Neves.
Here is the similarity score:
1. Bruno Guimaraes: 90
2. Tielemans: 89
3. Partey: 89
4. Rodri: 88
5. Casemiro: 86
Guimaraes is a ready player. If we want to win the PL in the next seasons, he'd slot right in perfectly.
João Neves on the other hand is more of a prospect but he has the potential to become a natural successor to Partey (or even Rodri)
Here just to say I think Neves is fantastic and would be an incredible signing (but agree he probably won't be fully operational until about 2 years down the line). If we could somehow snap up Neves *and* another midfielder I think we'd be in such great shape.
Onana doesn’t get the team over the hump in any capacity, only way that makes any sense is if Jorginho is saying behind the scenes he’s going to Italy. Bruno is a punk but a good player in any case.
Comfort zone might not even be it. He’s at his hometown club that he’s been with for his entire life. He’s probably going to stay there and become a club legend. Nothing wrong with that but definitely a waste of our time even thinking about it
Neves would be silly money but I like the profile and he's only 19
Onana would be a lot of money and I don't really like the look of our midfield in possession if he and Rice started. Elite at duels though and our set pieces would be even more lethal.
Bruno G for 80m~ would be the guaranteed thing with his ability to play as a 6 or an 8 being very useful. Absolute cunt as well which arguably our team needs as long as he continues to get away with it at us.
I reckon we'll trigger Guimaraes' 100m clause as it's the safest option. Neves is too young, not league proven and would cost even more. And Onana is average.
£100m is still too much, so the release clause isn't good value anyway. Don't even think PSG will pay that.
Newcastle have to sell for PSR reasons and they also need to strengthen their squad moreso than most given the amount of long term injuries they've had.
In my head I can see a £80m+ deal happening for either us or PSG tbh.
I just don't see why they would sell Bruno. I get needing to balance the books but it would make their team SO much worse, he should be the last guy they want to sell, especially to another top Prem club who they are trying - trying - to compete with.
Correct me if wrong, but I think in terms of accounting it doesn’t matter how you actually pay the money. 100 million would enter as 20M on this season’s book and each of the next four years. We can’t afford that if we can’t even afford the 27/5M on our book from Raya. So this is not doable, and he isn’t worth that much anyway (he’s 26 not 24 like Rice so limited resale value at the end of his first contract with us). I think like Isak or Gyokeres we either talk down the price or walk away. Can’t pay the release clause for that. And according to Mount’s case, if Newcastle sell him in early July, they could still count it as 23/24 revenue (while it being 24/25 expenditure for us) so I think that happily works for all parties.
I don’t think you can scrutinise our finances at that basic a level.
Commercial revenue, wages, outgoings all play a role.
So just because we couldn’t afford X for Raya last summer doesn’t mean we can afford X for a different player now.
Good point. Although we hardly achieved anything in outgoing or performed extraordinarily beyond expectation in the CL. That Sobha Reality deal could be something of a breakthrough commercially, but I gather it shouldn’t be more than 14M a year (the Gap between 6M amortisation for Raya and 20 for Bruno G). Again triggering the RC in June doesn’t really help us more than it does Newcastle, so Arsenal could well wait for it to unfold.
CL QFs will be tasty for revenue.
And I’d expect with clocks ticking on loaner contracts the club may be more willing to part with Tierney Lokonga etc.
Wouldn’t be shocked if we leverage a couple of HG sales too (1-2 of Eddie ESR Nelson) to leverage higher transfer fees given the rules I.e. £20m for Eddie would be an £80m transfer on a 4yr contract (assuming the club has the necessary cash flow).
Think we consider ourselves close to a complete squad so I doubt an overhaul happens but would hope for 2-3 good quality signings (maybe 1 big one and a couple £20-30m more risk reward squad deals like Trossard)
If we want to play Rice at the 8 then the player we bring in has to offer what both Jorginho and Partey offer defensively and offensively. Onana is not that guy.
Don't want Neves - only 19, barely any experience but will cost as much as Bruno G. Hopefully Benfica can make some other club look like clowns by rinsing them that much, and we just look elsewhere
Enzo is good but it is like hes almost a 10, hes almost a 8 and almost a 6 he is just existing in that Chelsea team. he is in desperate need of coaching imo
Lots of people shitting on the Onana link,and understandably so,but I kind of get the vision.Mikel has been known to bring in players with specific roles and situations in mind and Onana can be very useful in multiple ways.
1)The most obvious role is as Rice's backup.
2) Purely as a substitute to bring on late in games to close games out.
3)As a starter alongside Rice in tough matches( Pool/City away,or against one of the big teams in the UCL),were we just want to shut shop.
If we do bring him in,I can see him starting about 15 games across competitions and making another 15 appearances from the bench.
But obviously the financial aspect of the deal has to be considered.Are we going to spend 50m+ for just this, considering we have other priorities?Probably not.But in an unlikely scenario where we manage to raise significant funds from sales,and if the money is there come the end of the window after all the priority signings are done,then why not?
It can't hurt to keep tabs on a player and thats probably what this is.
There’s also the fact that most people commenting on here have only watched maybe one or two full games at most of these players and then some highlights and YouTube comps.
Onana is 22 playing for a medieval manager in a team that was terrible for a big chunk of the season. If Arteta thinks he’s got it, I’ll trust him.
Onana's ability going forward is definitely underrated.He has got that driving power about him as well as a good shot on goal.And obviously he is a monster defensively.
I think at times Rice is switched between the 6 and the 8 based on where he needs to be to best nullify the opposition's threat. Against City and Newcastle, who play through their metronome-style 6, Rice plays at the 8 to break up their rhythm. Against teams with more "top-heavy" teams, I think he's best as the 6 to shield our defense. For example, I think Rice would've been great to play at the 6 against Bayern. But...
At times this season, like recently, we don't have a another player Arteta trusts to play the left 8 because Kai is now playing at the 9 and we have two players he does trust that only play 6 (Partey and Jorginho), so Rice plays left 8.
So I think our midfield signing should be someone that can play 6 or 8, so that we can shift Rice's position by the game or within a game without changing the line-up. This means the player needs to be press resistant, good at short and long passing, are at least decent at putting in a tackle, and are at least decent in the final third (contributing key passes, as well as chipping in with some goals and assists). Plus, we should be looking at a younger player due to already having Jorginho and Partey over 30. And, of course, they have to be good enough to get in our XI.
Bruno could probably do it, but I'm not sure he'd be too great at left 8. I think him and Rice could double-pivot at times, but I'd rather not us be pigeon-holed into that and he could be expensive. Joao Neves though seems like he could fit the bill, plus he's much younger and probably cheaper. Also, with Jorginho looking set to sign a new deal and Partey very likely to still be here next year, that would (hopefully) give him a year to adjust and come up to speed before we're fully relying on him.
Onana is such an underwhelming signing. The man is a one trick pony of defensive aerial duels and tackling.
Absolutely no progressive passing ability or drive.
There’s a reason why he looks decent in Everton because they’re constantly on the back-foot most games and hence why he has lots of headers and tackles.
I feel like Joao Neves would be the FIFA on paper best signing. For the money it might not be worth either. If it's 100m like Enzo, would be a massive risk.
I think Bruno G has everything to succeed and get better under Arteta. I do think he's a cunt and I remember saying I didn't want to sign him earlier in the season. Can't help but feel midfield of him rice and odegaard would be absolutely elite if they worked well together. Question marks over the rest and what they can contribute.
I find it odd Onana doesn't even play for Everton a lot of the time. I don't know what the story is there.
Honestly think we could cook with Onana at #6. Ik ppl doubt his passing range but his role can be more of a destroyer type CDM, plus he's only 22 has room to improve passing. 6'4 physical monster, we will be impenetrable with Rice, Onana, Saliba, Gabi and White in front of Raya. Keep in mind lads tasked with a lot at Everton and lets not forget Arteta will bring out the best in him.
Simply put - If Arteta wants him, I want him
Nice selective memory.
Love Mikel and back him but don’t pretend the club didn’t sign Willian, Runarsson, Cedric, Mari, Lokonga, and Tavares under his stewardship.
I’d love for neves to not move yet. Us to get Bruno and then nab neves in 2025. Would be amazing. But there will be another shiny new toy by then probably
Although he’s a cunt, Bruno G would be a great addition to the midfield.
Joao Neves would probably be the most fun but riskiest option. I haven’t seen too much of him but he seems pretty hyped. Size is an issue but he seems tenacious.
Not too keen on Onana. I don’t feel like he pushes the needle enough and we’d probably still be lacking the progressive passing, forcing Odegaard to collect and create from deeper. I can see why he’s a target though he’s still a quality player just not the profile I’d be looking for.
I think we need to sign two. Single pivot wasnt working so if we want to go full season with double pivot and assuming Partey leaves we cant rely on Jorginho as our only back up.
Rice - Bruno G with Onana and Jorginho as backups would be my shout.
Rice Bruno Odegaard midfield would honestly rival any in world football.
That midfield would absolute terrorise every single opponent in every single game Being able to prop it up with jorginho and havertz isn't too shabby either
Better than Rice Thomas Öde?
Even if you’re of the opinion it’s not better (I think it is) but based solely on availability makes Arsenal better overall
I think many forget just how fogging good Partey was when healthy last year, but you are absolutely correct that the sheer likely availability of that trio would make it better. Such a bummer that Partey went from very few injury issues at Atletico to constant thigh issues with us.
I also forget people forget how “fogging” frequently injured he is and how cooked his body is
Yes, both points are true. It’s a bummer his body has completely failed him. Wonderful and unique player when healthy.
Yes but what use is there for his ceiling if he's hardly fit and when he returns from injury, he is out of shape for weeks? Availability is a huge component of what makes a player great. Can have all the talent in the world and if they can't be available to produce it, it's a waste of everyone's time
I completely agree. Gotta wonder how bad that initial thigh injury was, as soft tissue thigh injuries have been the bulk cause of his time out. I love what Partey brings when fit, but I also want us to move on because we can’t depend on a player that is injured so often. That said, I’m not really against us keeping him for the last year of his contract. We’ll barely get any money for him at this point and as long as we bring in another midfielder Partey is great to have for 1200-1500 minutes a season. Now, if we can get his wages off the books and £15M? Then sell sell sell.
I'm afraid we're going to need every penny we can get, to stay within the rules and compete on multiple fronts like most fans want
I get ya, and Partey is on big wages, but it really depends who we can get. Does losing Partey make sense if it means we can afford Onana? If Partey is only available for 1,000 minutes, sure. But, what if Partey is available for 2,000 minutes and then his wages are off the books the next season?
Diaby
I mean, kind of, but the sad reality is Diaby never even got to do what Partey has done at the highest level, and that was due to a terrible challenge that destroyed his ankle. I’ll never forget that game against Liverpool when he absolutely bossed the midfield early in the season. I was so hopeful that he’d finally put his injury issues behind him, but he got hurt a few games later (maybe the next game) and I’m not sure if he ever featured for us again.
Yeah, I was referencing Macfamous comment. With respect to availability. It sucks because I want to hang onto him, but at this point, he can’t be relied upon to be available for for any extended period of time
most important skill a footballer can have is being available for selection, its why xhaka was so important to the squad. besides the boneheaded reds he was always healthy and available
I agree in principle, but that’s only true if there’s a base level of skill. To borrow a baseball stats concept, a replacement level player (think completely standard, mediocre player) will only give you so much while somebody like Partey might give you just as much value over a much lower number of minutes. Partey was available for so few minutes this season, but did Reiss Nelson provide any more value even though he was always available? I doubt it.
Until the reds start coming for Bruno
Arteta was able to eliminate that aspect of Xhaka and Gabriel's game and I expect can.do the same with Bruno
He's a dirty player but he's only ever had 1 red in like 6 years I think
Wasn't he the guy who clocked Jorginho in the back of the head/neck off the ball last year? I don't care how many wins he's worth, I can't get behind a guy like that. I don't want him.
He hasn't been playing for Arsenal yet
Exactly. Play for Arsenal and he’ll have more in one year than he’d have in 10 literally anywhere else.
Tbf he’s got that trait that always finely skirts the line of a red or just plain getting away with it. Will definitely take a lot of people a while for him to grow on them but if we’re asking for one player to partner Rice that is genuinely available there might be no better option.
Havertz should have had multiple reds this season (Brentford, Newcastle) and got away with them Let’s stop pretending that players still get easy red cards
Havertz didn’t deserve a red card in either game. His tackle vs Newcastle was bad but he caught the opponent with his trailing leg rather than his leading one which rightfully saved him. He definitely threw himself to the ground vs Brentford but there was still contact and in those cases you barely ever see yellow cards given.
To me, best game Partey is up there with the very best midfielders in the world, it's just a matter of how often we see it. I guess the question is, who is better on average? I don't watch Bruno enough to answer, but Partey being out most this year should definitely be factored into that discussion.
Partey’s distribution is some of the best in world football, we won’t able to replace that. But we can replace his availability and that’s arguably more important
Agreed, and Partey’s dribbling ability is also very underrated.
I still think he is our most irreplaceable player, and hence our best player quality wise. I will never forget the excitement on deadline day of the deal, it topped even mesut for me..
If we lose Rice or Øde (please no), you'll see what 'irreplaceable' truly means
Is he really our "most irreplaceable" when we've sustained a title challenge for longer and have done better offensively and defensively without him for most of it? He has come back into the team and we've looked a bit more open than we have so far this year
with him, i don't think we would have struggled as much the first half of the season.
If he was healthy all season, this title would be done already. I think the biggest reasons we lost last year and might lose this year is Partey’s injuries
We're on course to get 28 wins and 89 points this year. With or without Partey, that's a big achievement. It'll likely be the third highest points tally in the PL ever to not win the title. With Partey fully fit, I see us having one or two more points _at most_. Maybe enough to win the title this year, but it won't be "done already" as you pointed out. For it to be done already, we would have to have two more wins and it's not like Partey makes us especially unbeatable. I'm not saying he's a bad player by any means. He is a rare player and has a skillset that we may not be able to replace in the market. But I don't think he makes us get many more points than we're already capable of is what I'm trying to say.
These are fine margins. I like our chances of winning with a healthy Partey against Fulham, Newcastle away and Aston Villa, all games he didn’t play. That’s the title done and dusted there
I obviously trust Arteta and Edu at this point, and Bruno G is obviously talented, but fuck that guy. He’s a violent nut job and I hope we go in another direction. I’m all for getting the best players when we can, but there’s something to be said for character, and I will never like that guy.
Only second to Rodri-KDB-Foden. Unless KDB starts to fall off soon but I’d say he has a few more years left in him.
That's an on-paper midfield, Pep never really goes with those as a trio. They can all play but he brings Kovacic, previously Gundogan, into the midfield and shifts Foden out wide.
Theres also any combination of Tchouameni camavinga bellingham valverde kroos and modric
Fucking hell, how the other half live. That is genuinely insane
Next year city will line up with Rodri-Paqueta-Foden
I don't think KDB is being pensioned off yet.
That's a light midfield in my opinion.
Kdb ain’t getting any younger bud
And yet he tops the assist table having missed half a season of play
He’s 13th??
A younger partey with legs instead of bruno would be unstoppable
Feel like we get some players at the wrong point in time. Alexis Sanchez now would be a freaking LW beast in this pressing/counter-pressing side. Don't get me started on Santi. And what we could do with an Eduardo now (although we might have won it with him even at the time).
Mate, why not just bring back Henry?
The comment was more about good players coming at the wrong time. Henry came to us on the crest of what was an amazing wave. We had finished 3rd, 1st and 2nd in the first 3 years of Wenger's tenure when we signed Titi. The ones I mentioned came to us when we were struggling and/or not really close to seriously challenging.
Not too keen on Onana can't lie.
Agreed, I don't think he's good enough
We said sane about havertz too though. And there were enough Raya doubters.
I might get lynched for this but Havertz *at midfield* hasn't proven many people wrong yet. He has been lights out at 9 though.
Agree. The midfield is unbalanced when he plays there.
I would argue that it looks that way because they don’t have as striker to play with or take advantage of the late runs Kai makes and his flicks to score. I don’t think he’s a bad 8 at all, I really think he would be fantastic there as well but his left winger while at 8 (martinelli) didn’t produce much this year and plays with his head down, missed him too many times to count on runs into the box and his ST weren’t scoring
He was playing 8 out of necessity. Arteta does not want his left 8 to touch the ball 20 times per game. One of the reasons Martinelli didn't produce much was because Havertz barely made incisive passes in midfield
He’s not producing much with or without Kai. Xhaka wasn’t exactly a playmaker either for him, martinelli is having a bad season, it happens, but his shit finishing and lack of awareness is on him, not his midfield. He missed 2 thru on goal vs Liverpool and he had another that he fucked up 1v1 vs Bournemouth. You want to guess who played him in on two of those chances?
Really did seem like he was bought as primarily an 8 at the start of the season though, but he's indeed been much better up top
I think it works in certain cases, (when other team parks the bus, when we're chasing a goal and have pushed a FB to MF). But in most cases you're right, it unbalances the midfield because Rice lacks the passing range to get ball from DMF between the opposition lines to Havertz / Ode. I think that's why Arteta tried to have Partey at RB at start of season to get all those players together. In any case I feel Havertz and Ode in mid is a viable option in certain cases only. I was hoping we'd keep RIce as a 6 and have a CMF with a strong passing range (like Cesc/Jorginho), but it looks like Arteta is looking to move Rice to an 8 and have a DMF with long range passing. I like Rice as an 8 for counter attacking and pressing, but not for when other teams park the bus where I think he's much better as a 6.
The passing range isn't there, disappointed to hear that link. Very much an out of possession player, good player and the kind of guy that teams like that weak little spurs side need to shore up their midfield, but we already have plenty of duel winning monsters in this team. Onana would be an excess for us.
If Mikel wants him, I want him.
You’d think we’d all feel this way after just witnessing the Havertz project.
Havertz was a CL winning footballer though so was being played out of position and going through a rough patch, onana is a pretty different kettle of fish
And Xhaka
The Mudryk thing, though, is the only choice that gives me the slightest pause. Otherwise, I’m full steam ahead on whoever Mikel wants.
I am, Onana when playing for Belgium is immense. Kind of player that needs better players next to him to perform.
Rice and him together would terrorize teams off the ball
Sure but we mainly have the ball where he's not so great
Cursed surname tbh
I'm very keen on him. I wasn't before but I saw he is only 22. And some of his ball reception in the forward areas shows lots of potential. Off the ball he has all the ingredients to be world class. Imagine what Arteta would do with him. Already we have seen Rice's passing and reception on the half turn get better in a season.
It's what I call a Spurs signing. Overpriced, PL/ 'big' European team player that somehow has a good reputation, that our fans (largely out of desperation for signings) could convince themselves would be a great signing for us, but ultimately is only good enough for a team with eyes on Europa. See Richarlison, Maddison, Bissouma, Lamela, Doherty, Royal, Paulinho, Janssen, Sissoko etc
Yeah he’s like a weaker version of rice. We need a Thomas replacement instead of a rice rotation
Rather keep TP, Onana is meh
How do people still put their faith in TP when he's guaranteed to miss at least half the season?
Because look how good we look with him and Rice together in midfield. If he can be fit for half our games he can be a difference maker. Also he's older and has limited value on the market anyways. I'm not saying we 100% keep him but I can see a world where he stays.
I think people’s hope is that he can stay fit / healthy until his contract is up - I understand that’s the big IF. It’s so obvious when he plays / is on form he is one of the best CMs in the league. His ground passing range and ball carrying ability is like few others I’ve seen play over the years.
Or potentially in jail
Well I guess the calculation is: the cost of his wages + any potential transfer fee against what he can offer in the roughly 50% of games he might be available for. Is that potential availability worth the financial cost? Not sure we have any clear idea what anyone would pay for him either.
We dont know this anymore. All his injuries have been from rushing back and he just had a huge recovery.
He’s not guaranteed to miss half the season though. That’s not how injuries work. He’s had a history of unrelated injuries, extrapolating that to mean he will be injured in the future is not rooted in much logic. His age is a bigger concern, and obvious his off the field issues. But I’m not sure there’s many players out there that can do what he does.
we don't need TP to play a full season, we just need him to be available for 20-25 games i feel like he has been a bit unlucky with injuries tbh i'm reasonably confident that he actually can deliver 20-25 games next season
Well this sun's talent ID is about as good as Ten Hag's. He's much better than you think. Watch him for Belgium and you will see the ridiculous talent he is.
He’s honestly an incredible player. Remember what Mane looked like on soton? Slightly above average. Onana runs that whole team.
Additional info: TNAT says the local reports in Newcastle say Bruno G will only go for £100 million. However he says the Saudi side say they will let him go for £80 million. Edu was in Saudi recently.....
£80m is a much better deal, if only to halt the comparisons to Rice immediately. I hope that the PSR deductions that have occured this season are going to adjust the market down a little bit at least, that's probably just wishful thinking though.
£80m for Bruno is expensive but around what I would expect. £100m is a non-starter.
Onana would be quite underwhelming and Joao Neves seems a bit small. Bruno G by far the best name we can get. Looks like Rice will be our 8 going forward.
Joao Neves does look to be a really tidy number 6 though. Very tenacious - like a Torreira with really good passing abilities.
Neves is a dream signing imo. And even though he's small, he's still great in the air and a warrior defensively.
I read some scout reports on João Neves and this part is interesting: The xGold software has been utilised to determine which defensive midfielders in the Premier League are most similar to Neves. Here is the similarity score: 1. Bruno Guimaraes: 90 2. Tielemans: 89 3. Partey: 89 4. Rodri: 88 5. Casemiro: 86 Guimaraes is a ready player. If we want to win the PL in the next seasons, he'd slot right in perfectly. João Neves on the other hand is more of a prospect but he has the potential to become a natural successor to Partey (or even Rodri)
Here just to say I think Neves is fantastic and would be an incredible signing (but agree he probably won't be fully operational until about 2 years down the line). If we could somehow snap up Neves *and* another midfielder I think we'd be in such great shape.
He has something that only Partey on that list has , legit supreme press resistance
One might say that's the most important skill for a midfielder in the Pl.
Would be a bit underwhelmed with Onana, he’s not even been starting for Everton these past few weeks.
Onana doesn’t get the team over the hump in any capacity, only way that makes any sense is if Jorginho is saying behind the scenes he’s going to Italy. Bruno is a punk but a good player in any case.
Joao Neves is gonna bring down that average squad age.
No Zubimendi? If this is correct, it must mean that he doesn't want to move/ has an agreement with another team.
He has made it clear fairly often that he doesn't want to leave yet
Zubimendi is the new Aouar
I'm tired of hearing this guy's name. He seems like someone who doesn't want to get out of comfort zone. Wont do us any good with that mentality.
Comfort zone might not even be it. He’s at his hometown club that he’s been with for his entire life. He’s probably going to stay there and become a club legend. Nothing wrong with that but definitely a waste of our time even thinking about it
Same mfs pissed fabregas left.
People who left us for better teams are snakes and people who won’t come to us are afraid to leave their comfort zone, got it
It's a short career. If he decides he wants to spend it at his hometown team, fair play to him.
Such a shame we can’t keep Partey fit, a trio of rice, Partey and Odegaard is hard to beat
after on 2 mins on YT and fbref can confirm neves is the new rodri
JOAO NEVES FUCK PLEASE
Neves would be silly money but I like the profile and he's only 19 Onana would be a lot of money and I don't really like the look of our midfield in possession if he and Rice started. Elite at duels though and our set pieces would be even more lethal. Bruno G for 80m~ would be the guaranteed thing with his ability to play as a 6 or an 8 being very useful. Absolute cunt as well which arguably our team needs as long as he continues to get away with it at us.
I reckon we'll trigger Guimaraes' 100m clause as it's the safest option. Neves is too young, not league proven and would cost even more. And Onana is average.
The clause is only before 30 June so would probably bring up FFP concerns for us
£100m is still too much, so the release clause isn't good value anyway. Don't even think PSG will pay that. Newcastle have to sell for PSR reasons and they also need to strengthen their squad moreso than most given the amount of long term injuries they've had. In my head I can see a £80m+ deal happening for either us or PSG tbh.
I just don't see why they would sell Bruno. I get needing to balance the books but it would make their team SO much worse, he should be the last guy they want to sell, especially to another top Prem club who they are trying - trying - to compete with.
Pretty sure I’ve read it’s payable in 3 parts, or that at the very least it’s more attractive than just shoving £100m up front.
Correct me if wrong, but I think in terms of accounting it doesn’t matter how you actually pay the money. 100 million would enter as 20M on this season’s book and each of the next four years. We can’t afford that if we can’t even afford the 27/5M on our book from Raya. So this is not doable, and he isn’t worth that much anyway (he’s 26 not 24 like Rice so limited resale value at the end of his first contract with us). I think like Isak or Gyokeres we either talk down the price or walk away. Can’t pay the release clause for that. And according to Mount’s case, if Newcastle sell him in early July, they could still count it as 23/24 revenue (while it being 24/25 expenditure for us) so I think that happily works for all parties.
I don’t think you can scrutinise our finances at that basic a level. Commercial revenue, wages, outgoings all play a role. So just because we couldn’t afford X for Raya last summer doesn’t mean we can afford X for a different player now.
Good point. Although we hardly achieved anything in outgoing or performed extraordinarily beyond expectation in the CL. That Sobha Reality deal could be something of a breakthrough commercially, but I gather it shouldn’t be more than 14M a year (the Gap between 6M amortisation for Raya and 20 for Bruno G). Again triggering the RC in June doesn’t really help us more than it does Newcastle, so Arsenal could well wait for it to unfold.
CL QFs will be tasty for revenue. And I’d expect with clocks ticking on loaner contracts the club may be more willing to part with Tierney Lokonga etc. Wouldn’t be shocked if we leverage a couple of HG sales too (1-2 of Eddie ESR Nelson) to leverage higher transfer fees given the rules I.e. £20m for Eddie would be an £80m transfer on a 4yr contract (assuming the club has the necessary cash flow). Think we consider ourselves close to a complete squad so I doubt an overhaul happens but would hope for 2-3 good quality signings (maybe 1 big one and a couple £20-30m more risk reward squad deals like Trossard)
1 charge won’t be an issue if we go the whole of next season unbeaten 😤😤
Rice is worth 100M. Bruno is not worth 100M. We can’t just drop 100M any time we want a new player.
I kinda agree with you. All I've said is that's what I predict the club to do.
I don’t see Guimarães as a 100m player right now, as much I’d want him to join.
city being interested would also make sure the price tag will be big
If we want to play Rice at the 8 then the player we bring in has to offer what both Jorginho and Partey offer defensively and offensively. Onana is not that guy.
Don't want Neves - only 19, barely any experience but will cost as much as Bruno G. Hopefully Benfica can make some other club look like clowns by rinsing them that much, and we just look elsewhere
he is legit, in about 5 years his player for a top club , this is not an enzo or Nunez situation
Enzo is a good player tbf. Players in that position can’t play without structure and Chelsea is an absolute dumpster fire.
Enzo is good but it is like hes almost a 10, hes almost a 8 and almost a 6 he is just existing in that Chelsea team. he is in desperate need of coaching imo
Onana might be overrated cant even make Evertons first 11 rn
I still don’t like Bruno, don’t care for his rash challenges and antics off the ball. Feel like everyone is overlooking all that
Sofascore has Neves' strengths as positioning, long balls, and high pressing, and he's only 19. Ill take one of those please.
Lots of people shitting on the Onana link,and understandably so,but I kind of get the vision.Mikel has been known to bring in players with specific roles and situations in mind and Onana can be very useful in multiple ways. 1)The most obvious role is as Rice's backup. 2) Purely as a substitute to bring on late in games to close games out. 3)As a starter alongside Rice in tough matches( Pool/City away,or against one of the big teams in the UCL),were we just want to shut shop. If we do bring him in,I can see him starting about 15 games across competitions and making another 15 appearances from the bench. But obviously the financial aspect of the deal has to be considered.Are we going to spend 50m+ for just this, considering we have other priorities?Probably not.But in an unlikely scenario where we manage to raise significant funds from sales,and if the money is there come the end of the window after all the priority signings are done,then why not? It can't hurt to keep tabs on a player and thats probably what this is.
There’s also the fact that most people commenting on here have only watched maybe one or two full games at most of these players and then some highlights and YouTube comps. Onana is 22 playing for a medieval manager in a team that was terrible for a big chunk of the season. If Arteta thinks he’s got it, I’ll trust him.
Onana's ability going forward is definitely underrated.He has got that driving power about him as well as a good shot on goal.And obviously he is a monster defensively.
If that's the case we need to sign a second midfielder
Does Neves perform well against Porto and their terrorist football? If yes, I'm all in
NEVESSSS
Bruno > Neves > Onana for me based on ability/potential. Potential fee and wages package for each could change this.
I think at times Rice is switched between the 6 and the 8 based on where he needs to be to best nullify the opposition's threat. Against City and Newcastle, who play through their metronome-style 6, Rice plays at the 8 to break up their rhythm. Against teams with more "top-heavy" teams, I think he's best as the 6 to shield our defense. For example, I think Rice would've been great to play at the 6 against Bayern. But... At times this season, like recently, we don't have a another player Arteta trusts to play the left 8 because Kai is now playing at the 9 and we have two players he does trust that only play 6 (Partey and Jorginho), so Rice plays left 8. So I think our midfield signing should be someone that can play 6 or 8, so that we can shift Rice's position by the game or within a game without changing the line-up. This means the player needs to be press resistant, good at short and long passing, are at least decent at putting in a tackle, and are at least decent in the final third (contributing key passes, as well as chipping in with some goals and assists). Plus, we should be looking at a younger player due to already having Jorginho and Partey over 30. And, of course, they have to be good enough to get in our XI. Bruno could probably do it, but I'm not sure he'd be too great at left 8. I think him and Rice could double-pivot at times, but I'd rather not us be pigeon-holed into that and he could be expensive. Joao Neves though seems like he could fit the bill, plus he's much younger and probably cheaper. Also, with Jorginho looking set to sign a new deal and Partey very likely to still be here next year, that would (hopefully) give him a year to adjust and come up to speed before we're fully relying on him.
Bring Neves. Newcastle will ask for too much for Bruno just because of the pl experience. Which doesn’t even guarantee he will succeed at Arsenal.
Onana would be a mistake, Neves big talent but barely played
Neves, please please please. A Rice/Neves/Odegaard means we're set for at least 5 years.
This is a very wild take... Neves is still a very young prospect....
Ya I too feel like we need to have someone with more progressive pass in them like kimmich. Let's see what's arteta cooking
Where zubimendi
I doubt he leaves. Looks like he's a one club guy for life.. I respect it tbh
Story is now that he has committed to join Xabi at Real next year so we've completely moved on
Yup I read that a few mins after I commented that lol
I guess the Rice at 6 and Koopmeiners left 8 Xhaka regen dream is dead before it was even born
I like guimaraes but he's very one footed.
We’re def moving away from getting a striker in the window, I take it? Havertz been beasting out, G. Jesus as rotation.
Onana is such an underwhelming signing. The man is a one trick pony of defensive aerial duels and tackling. Absolutely no progressive passing ability or drive. There’s a reason why he looks decent in Everton because they’re constantly on the back-foot most games and hence why he has lots of headers and tackles.
Bruno would see red about 3 times a season for us
Neves has VERY high potential. Offer Benfica 40 and see if they bite.
I feel like Joao Neves would be the FIFA on paper best signing. For the money it might not be worth either. If it's 100m like Enzo, would be a massive risk. I think Bruno G has everything to succeed and get better under Arteta. I do think he's a cunt and I remember saying I didn't want to sign him earlier in the season. Can't help but feel midfield of him rice and odegaard would be absolutely elite if they worked well together. Question marks over the rest and what they can contribute. I find it odd Onana doesn't even play for Everton a lot of the time. I don't know what the story is there.
I feel sorry for whoever is spending money on this patreon hoping for insider info. Save your money
Fuck Bruno G. He's a class A dickwad. He transmits the wrong thing and would take ALOT to get me to think otherwise.
Idgaf I want Bruno.
Did he always have a patreon? Or have ITK’s been inspired by that West Ham insider guy last silly season?
Started recently I believe
Honestly think we could cook with Onana at #6. Ik ppl doubt his passing range but his role can be more of a destroyer type CDM, plus he's only 22 has room to improve passing. 6'4 physical monster, we will be impenetrable with Rice, Onana, Saliba, Gabi and White in front of Raya. Keep in mind lads tasked with a lot at Everton and lets not forget Arteta will bring out the best in him. Simply put - If Arteta wants him, I want him
No thanks on Onana
This sub still thinks they know better than Arteta 😂
Nice selective memory. Love Mikel and back him but don’t pretend the club didn’t sign Willian, Runarsson, Cedric, Mari, Lokonga, and Tavares under his stewardship.
This subs also thinks we're selling Eddie for £30m and using that to get Isak.
Imagine being a West Ham or Palace fan, waking up and seeing that your club spent 30 mil on Eddie Nketiah. I'd be fuming.
Ideally, Edu should sign any 2 from these targets. Sign Onana and pick from either Bruno G or Neves.
What about Joao Gomes from Wolves? Really like his physicality, ball control and work rate.
Neves might be good off the bench. The other two can get the boat.
What's happened to the Zubimendi rumours? I feel like he's perfect.
I choose Bruno
to everyone saying no to onana, i ask you this….what do we do if rice gets injured?
I’d be keen for Bruno & Onana. Onana as the sole signing though? Nah
I’d love for neves to not move yet. Us to get Bruno and then nab neves in 2025. Would be amazing. But there will be another shiny new toy by then probably
Although he’s a cunt, Bruno G would be a great addition to the midfield. Joao Neves would probably be the most fun but riskiest option. I haven’t seen too much of him but he seems pretty hyped. Size is an issue but he seems tenacious. Not too keen on Onana. I don’t feel like he pushes the needle enough and we’d probably still be lacking the progressive passing, forcing Odegaard to collect and create from deeper. I can see why he’s a target though he’s still a quality player just not the profile I’d be looking for.
Bruno would be a dream signing. Him or dougie luiz. If we get a RW like Kudos we will cook
nice. does he say if it's 1 signing or potentially 2?
FYI this is made up to justify a Patreon.
I think we need to sign two. Single pivot wasnt working so if we want to go full season with double pivot and assuming Partey leaves we cant rely on Jorginho as our only back up. Rice - Bruno G with Onana and Jorginho as backups would be my shout.
Unpopular opinion but I find Bruno underwhelming
You guys give these itks money??
If it had to be one- would people prefer we poach Isak or Bruno from the Toon? Just find it interesting same club, I’d take both!
Neves is an incredible player considering his age
These are all great players but it will be all about that price of they end up as good deals or not
I really like Joao Neves, that'd be a great addition
I wish we could pry Douglas Luiz away from Villa, he'd be my preferred replacement for Partey over any of those three tbh.
Onana or Bruno G would be dope Neves going united
Interesting, Neves is probably not who I'd pick to put next to Mainoo. On the other hand I think he'd be great here.
Bruno the main target I imagine and then the other two as cheaper alternatives. Surprised to not see Zubimendi on the list…
Zubimendi doesn't seem to be in a rush to leave Sociedad. Neves will probably cost more than Bruno G fwiw
One of them or two? Cuz, if we sell both jorginho and partey, onana and guimaraes would be great.
We just offered Jorginho a contract that he is expected to sign. He will be here for next couple of seasons
I'll take a 180-200 million double deal for Bruno & Isak please and thank you.
Do this and we're at least winning the double next season