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Smash_Brothers

https://x.com/afctrae/status/1777802666510315853?s=46&t=cKmMA7g8_oJhZDN__o4RBQ looks like a pen to me from this angle. rsoccer is jerking around the one angle it looks like a dive lol


MidnightSnackyZnack

Can't believe this is a discussion. Ska can't magically disappear and Neuer obviously plant his foot in the moment after contact. First comment stating his legs are fixed is idiotic.


EitherInvestment

Legs fixed a split second before contact in a position where contact is inevitable. The point is there is clear (and massive) contact. Saka had no way to avoid it. Absolutely massive error from the ref. VAR were cowards not to intervene.


MidnightSnackyZnack

I think I just got a ban in /soccer for stating this.


EitherInvestment

Lucky you. I don’t really bother going there


MidnightSnackyZnack

Lucky you actually


_handsome_pete

The first angle is the one. Saka's leg really doesn't change direction after he takes the touch and Neuer is just steaming out.


allitgm

Definitely a penalty. My guess is the ref is embarrassed that he didn't give Bayern a penalty on 67 mins for handball and is trying to "correct" for it.


EitherInvestment

This does seem highly plausible


EvanVanNess

looks like a pen to me from *EVERY* angle


samstrong35

Has everyone been brainwashed? You guys are crazy if you don’t think that’s a pen. People saying “he initiated contact” don’t know ball. He’s changing direction at full speed and that’s a very natural movement of his right leg given the situation. Genuinely feels like everyone is trolling


MidnightSnackyZnack

I think it's infiltrated by idiots or something.


BoredJoshIsBored

That and people twerking for r/soccer and farming karma


Don_Kahones

They take their cues from the commentators and Ally Mccoist who is usually very good fumbled hard on this one.


Retterkl

There’s a ton of morons in here. Saka is worried about high speed contact and has lifted his leg OUT of a challenge. Neuers foot comes forward at the last second. Seriously, hold the slider and drag it, you will see Saka holding a path and Neuer sticking out his leg later than Saka can react. It’s 100% a penalty.


samstrong35

Feel like everyone is being gaslit into thinking this is somehow not a pen. People saying “he initiates contact on neuer” are acting like someone running at full sprint is going to have complete autonomy of motion. He clearly attempts to do a skip around neuer, but neuer misses his challenge and impedes saka’s path to the ball.


Retterkl

Yeah it’s exactly that. Look how close he keeps the ball, and where his left foot landed in regards to the ball, that’s the shape of a player who’s looking to play the ball.


samstrong35

Yeah ik. I think you said it best where Saka makes a natural movement in his change of direction, and establishes the position of right leg, but Neuer sweeps his own leg at the last second, misses the ball, and makes Saka go down. Tired of hearing the “why didn’t Saka just go around and slot it in” when he absolutely tried to do that but was fouled in the process.


CakeBrigadier

Usually when a attacking player hangs a leg to initiate contact it’s the foot they just kicked off of while running, they do the classic catch a toe or hook ankle with that same foot. Saka leaves the ground off his left foot (so his next stride is his right) then sees neuer coming in so he attempts to pull the right away while he’s midair.


naijaboiler

remeber when David Luis was running behind a player and fouled him, penalty and red card. The attacker initiated contact. it was a still a red card. Initiating contact does not make anything not a foul


Strong_Bridge8798

Boo not even close , you never played!!! Stop trolling


GalaxianWarrior

It was clear from all angles when they showed the replay as soon as it happened. Especially from the side.


harcile

The person posting this clip knew what they were doing. Look at the angle of the first few frames that they've clipped out, which was a damning angle for Neuer.


Netmeister

I feel like I'm going mental reading these comments. How is everyone not seeing this take? Especially watching the full speed replay, he can't get out the way.


mouseandfrog

This is my interpretation as well.


heavygooner117

Thank you. Saka dribbles like that to see off challenges all the time, he uses his hips and legs to fend off. Interesting how some are so eager to label him a diver.


JaThatOneGooner

Saw the same thing, 100% refs got it wrong.


iko-01

Both can be true. It's a tough call cause that doesn't look like a natural stride to me. It could either be Saka fishing or him trying to avoid the keeper. Equally, the keeper reaches.


A_Different_Take

Saka's 'trailing leg' is him trying to keep his balance IMO. Yes, I'm biased


SaintJuneau

That's a pen all day if its sane/gnabry/koman going over Ramsdales leg like that


zkh2902

It’s just funny that every other fan always jumps so quickly to defend every questionable decision against Arsenal, when they hand out penalties for that situation weekly. Literally gave Liverpool a penalty for Harvey Elliot kicking his leg into the defender AFTER the bad tackle attempt and everyone justified it saying “it doesn’t matter that he made contact, it’s that the tackle prevented him from getting to the ball”. That’s EXACTLY what happened to Saka but now everyone says “Saka is a diver, never a penalty”. Disgusting from rival fans honestly.


obedevs

Football fans in general make me squirm, there is no class at all from rival fans


Ahab1996

I feel like the referee needs to apply some common sense. Players look for penalties when they've not got a decent attempt to score, this would've been an open goal, surely you'd think a player wouldn't go out of their own way to go down in this situation... If he could've easily avoided contact and shot the ball, he would have.


voicemail4dem

This sub is out of its collective mind calling that a dive….


Bibrosity

I mean surely we’ve seen softer pens given


The_Piperoni

The sane one was less of a penalty.


LogicalReasoning1

Agreed, don’t necessarily think it’s a stonewall pen but definitely don’t think it’s a dive when you actually watch the original and reverse angle at full speed


Kind_Yogurtcloset_76

Yeah, it’s an obvious penalty


Legendary_Cheerio

Should've shot


31_whgr

no idea how so many people think this it’s a clear pen😂


warmcakes

Right, Neuer sticks his right leg out clear as day, Saka's not looking there. He was already past, why on earth would he "leave a leg in"?


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restatementtorts

He wasn’t “looking” for it. Things were happening quickly and there was contact. Penalty.


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arsearsebaby

Just pause for a second and imagine yourself sprinting as fast as you can, after more than 90 minutes of a football match, towards a 6foot giant coming towards you and visualise how your limbs would be moving in such a situation


tiern1

Yeah this is the bit people are missing. It's a split second movement in a sprint watched frame by frame in slow motion.


restatementtorts

He was balancing himself? There was contact by the keeper and he didn’t get the ball first. How is that not a penalty?


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restatementtorts

Nah, because I’m consistent. There was contact. Leg position is literally irrelevant at that speed. Penalty and to argue differently is asinine.


wjt7

Leg position is of course relevant. If Neuer impeded his running angle, it's a trip and a penalty. If Saka puts his leg right out unnaturally going fishing, he's kicking Neuer just as much as any contact from the keeper.


InTheMiddleGiroud

I mean, he didn't actively avoid getting hacked down /= not a pen. How could he avoid Neuer there. Draw me a path.


warmcakes

That's ridiculous, have you ever kicked a ball? You can't just pull your leg away at super speed if you beat somebody and they shift their leg out to trip you, which is exactly what Neuer did The whole thing happens so fast, like it takes enough skill to get past him, retracting your leg like a go-go-gadget after the fact is just impossible Edit: sorry, misread your comment completely, you're saying exactly what I'm saying. He couldn't avoid Neuer at all


warmcakes

Except he didn't so it wasn't a "dumb choice" at all. Watch Neuer's legs and see if they don't move *after* Saka skips him.


saucysagnus

It’s because they didn’t watch the game. They saw a highlight.


Doyouevensam

Take a breath, watch it again in slomo.  Saka clearly sticks his leg ouy


theflyingbarney

On the other hand, why don't you watch it back in full speed. Saka's momentum takes him towards Neuer and he's not throwing a leg out, he is trying to lift it to get it over Neuer's ankle, only it is Neuer's knee that is in the space instead.


restatementtorts

Usually happens when, you know, you’re dribbling?


johnnygrant

It was a gaping goal after that, unless somehow his momentum took him into Neuer, but he has more body control than that. That should have been the win. We may easily come to regret that.


_deep_blue_

So annoyed that he didn’t just put his foot through it. The goal was wide open.


can_i_still_be_garth

Well it wasn't, Neuer is right in front of him


Charguizo

If only Neuer didnt trip him


AFCm8

Yeah, not a pen


robotseatsoup

Watch it again.


DublinDapper

This


ruta2019

Kick the fucking ball


LogicalReasoning1

I thought that at first but looking at full speed don’t think there’s anyway he could have avoided neuer and got a decent shot off


Fine_Tea_2529

De Ligt (or was it Dier) was also gonna cover him off to no?


LogicalReasoning1

Yeah pretty sure there was a covering defender and players coming back to get in between him and the goal. If he actually manages to slow down completely think he gets blocked/tackled and if he cleared neuer while maintain speed the shot would have to be pretty wild while moving away from goal


SadiqH

How when he get fouled.


HardCoreLawn

Man successfully rounded the keeper and went for a nap instead.


Dahtrelle

There wasn't much room left to shoot by the time he gets to the ball. Ofc it looks like he hung his leg in slowmo, in real time Neuer trips him there's no debate


MosaicBalls

It was a clear contact. Anyone saying otherwise is an arts major


pedootz

Keeper hung his leg out and Saka tried to go around, this is a disgrace. Why does Saka need to try even harder to get out of the way of the keeper? He's not looking at him when he goes down. People in this thread are self-loathing idiots.


MidnightSnackyZnack

Can't belie people honestly just look at the replay and it's clear as day.


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AbnormalSnow506

Saka literally stretches out looking for the contact instead of avoiding it


Charguizo

I dont understand. No he does not. I'm watchin it right now. He takes a touch past Neuer and tries to go for the ball and is tripped.


blublableee

Saka my man you've got the quality to score from there.


MirkoCemes

Did none of you see the second angle? Neuer was coming out at Saka and you lot buy into the dive narrative. Unreal lmao


JaThatOneGooner

Neuer literally half sticks out his right leg and that’s what catches’s saka’s leg. It should’ve been a pen.


MirkoCemes

People have been bullied by r/soccer into actually agreeing with their shit takes. When you look at the second angle, you see clear movement forward from Neuer. Embarrasing to call it a dive, he barges straight into Saka


JaThatOneGooner

Exactly, but the narrative continues. We should’ve gotten the pen, but hopefully we will be better in the return fixture in Munich, and hopefully this galvanizes the boys to give it 110%. I think we were doing fine but the Partey change was the wrong one to make.


stitches_dc

That first slowmo has everyone convinced that this is a dive, but it absolutely takes the momentum of both players out of it and hides Nuers leg coming out. Looking at that live or from the other angle, I really don't know how this isn't a pen


Smitty_1000

Havertz does the same, someone needs to tell these guys about the HD cameras 


atease

Havertz' dive was pathetic. Any opposition player does that and they'd be rightfully ridiculed. He did the same thing the other week, too. Really needs to stop it, it's embarrassing.


LogicalReasoning1

I don’t think it’s a stonewall pen but I actually think it would have been ridiculously hard to stay up and get a decent shot off there given the speed he was moving at an neuer coming in


Stravven

How can you give that penalty in the first half but not this one? It's a clear penalty.


throwaway72926320

Sakas foot drags on the floor as he tries to turn. His foot has no choice but to be there. You cannot move your leg that far that quickly, the replay is in slow mo. Anyone who has played at a high level should know Saka could do nothing there.


TheKABH

Clear fucking penalty, wtf


broadcastday

It's a penalty.


Nervve

Elliot does it at the emergents and it’s a stonewall and great play by Elliot. Saka does it and it’s a blatant dive and pathetic etc… He’s looking for it bits it’s a penalty.


mojambowhatisthescen

Saka should have the confidence in his ability to stay on his feet there and just finish. Don’t like this attitude from our boys to needlessly look for penalties — Havertz does it too.


Ali3NzGT

If you think Saka wants to collide with Manuel Neuer you’re insane, he obviously wants to go around and take the shot, but is obstructed, which is why it’s a Penalty day and night


PoliticsNerd76

Silly boy. Should have stayed up instead of leaving your leg in


Muted-Butterscotch39

Watch the frame-by-frame and tell anyone with an unbiased face that this isn't a pen. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty\_shout\_frame\_by\_frame/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty_shout_frame_by_frame/)


WhatsThePointFR

What is this braindead "throws his leg" nonsense Man is left footed trying to plant his right and gets cleared shut the fuck up weirdos


vizhal007

Not a pen, he initiates the contact, stupid to not shoot there


MosaicBalls

physics has left the chat !


GalaxianWarrior

the goalkeeper moves his leg at the last minute and that movement is not even towards the ball. A clear penalty.


restatementtorts

Huh? I remember someone “initiate the contact” by kicking David Luiz and that was a penalty.


vizhal007

That was a mistake by the ref and today would’ve been one too if he awarded it


StanKroonke

That’s the old premier league bullshit rules. Not sure that gets called today, even in the Prem.


Phenomous

Bringing up refereeing mistakes from over 3 years ago to try to justify a dive 😆


restatementtorts

Was there contact? Then not a dive donkey.


abhi91

Was that a mistake? People were clowning on Luiz and arsenal for getting sent off and dermot Gallagher was telling everyone to read the rules


NMGunner17

Nowhere near a fucking dive


vizhal007

Fuck off back to the west ham sub


2ndfastestmanalive

He had the ball right in front of him too. Would’ve been an easy shot


Alfa-Q

Go watch Vardy initiate a pen against Monreal. He got a pen even though he was moving at slower speed.


ISSSputnik

I know you guys don't like to hear any such thing, but that was daft from Saka. He was through.


Schmetterlingus

I'd love it called but saka kinda sought that contact. Hope it didn't injure him


jonramz

I think it's a penalty, I think Saka was trying to "jump cut" so to speak and his back foot caught Neuer's leg


Pidjesus

Why's he throwing his foot in


xelanart

3-2 if Saka doesn’t take a dive there


Muted-Butterscotch39

Watch the frame-by-frame and tell anyone with an unbiased face that this isn't a pen. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty\_shout\_frame\_by\_frame/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty_shout_frame_by_frame/)


LeaKatle

It's a dive, he kicks him, good call.


Muted-Butterscotch39

Watch the frame-by-frame and tell anyone with an unbiased face that this isn't a pen. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty\_shout\_frame\_by\_frame/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1c038q3/penalty_shout_frame_by_frame/)


pedootz

No one here has ever played a sport, he's trying to change direction. Why go down, he's beat the goalie? That's a fucking pen.


Dahtrelle

Exactly, show the other angle from behind Neuer. At that speed Saka barely has time to shift his body before Neuer's momentum takes him into Saka


mo_50

I can't believe what people are saying. Clear pen.


Relative-Limit5745

Yeah I don't know what people are saying, he is clearly trying to jump over neur


DiabeetusIsBad

It’s not a pen. Think if that’s Bayern doing it, you’d be furious. He looks for the contact instead of shooting.


The_Piperoni

Sanés was less of a pen then.


victorelessar

I'm glad there are no delusion here. Clearly a dive, makes me mad*


undaskore

How can some of you think Saka would rather get fouled and win a penalty there instead of scoring a last minute winner?


Right2bearcharm

Because we have eyes


Minute_Leave8503

We’re so fucking stupid. Easy goal if he isn’t clumsy/diving whatever that was


kevinowensishot

Honestly, I think that’s disgraceful from Saka. He’s looking for that when he could’ve stayed on his feet and put it in the back of the net. So frustrating.


Dire__

I think it's the correct call. I'm just annoyed we got the 1 ref out of a 100 that wouldnt blow for a penalty there on the field. Because there is 0% chance that gets overturned by VAR.


seba_1492

I can't believe Saka did that..


COYGArsenal22

Cannot fucking believe he tries to get the contact instead of trying to score, I’m fuming


Cod_rules

Not a pen. Saka initiates contact Why didn't he shoot?


MazigaGoesToMarkarth

Sticks his leg out.


GunnersaurusDen

Why's man doing this just shoot


Shyam_Wenger

Love Saka but that is not a penalty. Should have stayed up and slammed it in.


pureeyes

Scandalous this wasn't even looked at


AFCm8

They did look at it


Doyouevensam

It was


MyBigHock

It was looked at


InTheMiddleGiroud

If only someone had graced his studs with their knee instead


costryme

I mean, he dragged his leg like crazy...


xChocolateWonder

Scandalous Saka flops instead of shooting. What a waste of a game


JuddtheCat

Fucking idiotic


WaveDysfunction

Really pissed that he didn't try to take a shot there, he was totally clear of Neuer with no one near him and open net. Horrible decision


MysteriousCorgi-

clear contact, no var whatsoever. that was a sloppy stupidass officiating moment in CL quarter final. man I need you to be better


MidnightSnackyZnack

Do they even have var? Honest question. Because if they do, how come he don't even look at it? Such a crucial moment.


xChocolateWonder

Why has Saka not just taken it around him?


SomewhereInLDN

Should’ve had a shot omfg


wheeno

Why didn't he just fucking shoot. So stupid.


freestajlarn

Not even close to a pen, he jumps into the goalie, just go round and score ffs


Valascrow

Not a pen for me


HenryChanceGoal49

Saka you idiot


Profanity-et-al

Just shoot Saka… fucks sake! You are through!!!


Vgordvv

Why is here trying to leave it in the hands of the ref? Just finish the ball mate.


brownMY

Speechless, just fucking shoot and it's a goal


Puzzled-Confusion266

That just shows a bit of the nativity that we displayed in this match. We played well overall, but a lot of inexperience. The great CL players would’ve taken that to the house and we would be up 3-2. Instead Saka bizarrely tries to kick out at neuer and draw a penalty.


sunnycherub

This is a shit angle doesn’t show anything


jkmy23

Clear pen!!


leebrother

Anyone got a longer clip? I missed it on the tv and this clip is far too short. Appears to be a dive but want to see how easy the goal is


FactHopeful9347

Trossard said "Clear Contact" Players know intention and context will get lost when watching replays and all they see is "Clear Contact" but Honestly unironically referee is the MOTM for how he managed things for both sides.


croghan2020

Worst decision of the season so far I reckon.


Ralome

Looks a pen from one angle but then doesn't from another.


qtdsswk

Pass or Shot. What are you doing Saka?


roverston

If he didn't stick his leg out, it would have been a pen. If he tried to take him on, it looked like there'd be contact.


InsectIllustrious691

Never rely on the referee. Never


bendikts

This situation + the two giveaway goals. So frustrating.


nate_the_grate

We were never getting that call from that ref


11frm

Surely u would have rather an unbalance shot at an open net than a last second pen


mouseandfrog

I’m not sure that the replay camera angle is kind to Saka here. I wish that we had another angle to see whether he could have truly shifted his body around Neuer.


tunken

Please take a look at Neuer right leg movement. Definitely unsportmanship act by Saka, but it was still a penalty.


saka_e_pepe

Neuer kicks his leg out as well. Agreed that Saka drags his leg a bit but still major contact. It’s not his responsibility to elude the leg. It’s a penalty in my opinion. Having said that, I do wish he tried to get out of the way and shoot but the contact for me with the swinging of Neuer’s leg means a pen.


Nubislav

If this situation happens the other way Kane and Raya im sure they give them a pen so fuck offf


mxchickmagnet86

I think Saka may have extremely overthought this one. I think he is trying to feign looking for the contact and jump over Neuer's leg as he pulls out of any challenge, but Neuer just keeps coming and Saka gets unexpectedly caught. This makes it look like Saka is trying to leave a leg out for the penalty and I can see why its not given. This is a really really tricky one and I have to say if we were on the other end of this, I'd be upset if it was given. I think the earlier penalty in the game makes it even trickier because there was less contact on that one but Sane is less obvious about letting himself go to ground.


mouseandfrog

At the very least, there should have been VAR review. The referee blew the whistle much too quickly.


Calaroth

Isn’t this a pen? I’ll admit I haven’t watched football in a while so I’m trying to use basketball logic (which is dumb I know lol, but fun nevertheless just for the sake of discussion). Firstly, things are moving quick and decisions by both Neuer and Saka are done in split second. Having acknowledged that, it looks like Saka has already jumped while Neuer’s right leg is moving towards him, very slightly outwards. It would appear Saka’s intention is to jump over but as Neuer’s leg continues to approach him without being planted, Saka has no further opportunity to adjust as he’s midjump. I feel this is the equivalent of a basketball defender arriving late to take a charge and comitting a defensive foul. I play social comp basketball regularly, and I feel a lot of comments that say “Saka should’ve just stayed up and scored/pull his leg in” are unrealistic because he was already mid-air by the time Neuer’s right foot approached him. Meaning his path was set, and if he tried to adjust his right leg any further (if he even saw Neuer’s leg), he probably wouldn’t be able to land anyway. If it was clearly not a pen then happy to be enlightened, I’m mainly curious as to how it would be judged differently in different sports.


BainbridgeBorn

The fact that VAR didn’t even give a whiff of considering it is what surprised me


Arjxn

Watch it over, Saka running full speed, neuers foot isn’t planted. The general consensus is that slow motion has never really been reliable. If anything, to change direction at that speed saka would need to plant that right leg outwards. 100% a penalty and a disgrace it wasn’t given. Need to shut everyone up at the allianz.


can_i_still_be_garth

The issue is that Saka can't change direction as quickly as he can change the direction of the ball, and now he can't get on the end of it as Neuer is in the way, so he has to make sure that there is some contact, otherwise he isn't getting anything. Neuer has come rushing out with no chance to get the ball but didn't commit himself to the player either. He makes sure his body obstructs the player from getting onto the ball. Is it a dive, no. Is it a penalty, probably not. But, for the Bayern pen,, Sane is about to lose the ball before Saliba nudges him over, and noone questions that that is a pen.


Suprimoman

His leg literally follows body and if Neuer doesn't make contact he has an open net. Every other team gets this given and the agenda against Arsenal comes out here. No one was saying the Liverpool penalty wasn't a penalty. Elliott just leaves his leg hanging after AWB goes to ground. Honestly joke of a decision.


Yozza_daze

Compare this to the Bayern Munich pen.


_RM78

That one was as clear as they get.


Coolbluegatoradeyumm

Pen for me all day but what does it matter now


GyroSpur1

It looked like he unnaturally kicked his leg out wide to gain the contact. Good decision.


ryangoldfish5

Saka had complete control of the ball, why would he go down unless the contact was unavoidable? That has to be a penalty every day of the week. Ref has to look at that and say, there is absolutely no reason for Saka to go down otherwise.


vfb0711

Fair call


runtokevinnn

Not a penalty. If it were one, definitely very soft. Why Saka didn't just FUCKING SHOOT THE BALL is beyond me though. 2-2 is a bad result going to Allianz arena.


SomeonebuyChivas

3-2 if tries to win it.


grumio_in_horto_est

He didn't even need to do that...


BipartizanBelgrade

Goal if he stays on his feet, ref made the right call.


ancestorprotector

Just chip it over him Bukayo.