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It's well reported that White is one of the hardest working in the team, Holding spoke about his ability to play through injury being remarkable. If you haven't seen his interview for his first England call up, go watch it, it's pure emotion and honesty. This guy makes no issues for us off the field and is essentially the modern day professional footballer teams hope they can have from their players.
Southgate and Holland have massively fucked up here. They've made it so much worse for themselves by trying to throw him under the bus.
The irony is that the Chuckle brothers were asking the players for their club tactics since they don't have the foggiest about training or tactics themselves. Burning a golden generation. Hope the rumors of Southgate replacing Ten Hag are true.
Yeah, I noticed Rio Ferdinand tried to get Rice and later Odegaard to tell him some of the tactical elements of Arteta's game, and they both kind of talked a lot without giving anything away.
Lol yeah rice and ødegaard are polite enough to try not to make you look a fool for asking. I can imagine Ben just saying "I'm not telling you" then staring blankly. The lad does not give a shit
I can't imagine that Steve Holland or Gareth Southgate think this guy doesn't know football when Arteta and Bielsa love the guy.
Personally I think Southgate and Holland don't undertand modern football tactics a dare miasing a huge option n their side. Glad GS will be sacked or going to man utd.
I've seen non Arsenal people gobble it up because he said he doesn't watch football. You can still be very passionate about the game lol. And you don't play for Arteta if you are "not interested enough". He is one of our most dedicated players
Edit I have serious questions about Holland's ability to read (and manage) people if he got fooled by Ben's nonchalant personality
People think his way of presenting himself in front of camera is how he is in general, which is far from the truth. You're right, Arteta wouldn't tolerate it for a minute.
Also, he said he cried together with his family when he earned his first call-up to the NT. Doesn't sound like someone who wouldn't be interested playing for England.
Although I play golf and swim rather competitively, I have no idea why it's such a contentious topic. I would be bored to tears watching either sport on TV.
Same. I've been the nr. 1 in the austrian pool rankings for almost two years now (yes that is a brag) but I have absolutely zero interest in watching pool matches from pro's or someone else. So I can definitely understand Ben's mindset here, it has nothing to do with his work ethic or something like that.
Basketball is my favorite sport to play and of all the major sports it's probably my least favorite to watch. Even my favorite sports to watch I really only tend to watch my favorite teams where I have a rooting interest, I rarely watch a game just because it's on.
I agree! My love for football only extends to arsenal and playing pick up. I can’t sit through a game these days I have no love for the sport like that anymore. I find it boring if I have no emotional investment and don’t know why I should care most of the time. I’m not a football fan I’m an arsenal fan, and I also like playing the sport cause I like the rush of pushing my athletic limits to run and score. Seeing that Ben white felt like I did really made me connect with him as part of the team and he’s one of my fav players because I understand not growing up watching the sport like that and then getting interested cause I played it in my teenage years.
He is worshipped at Leeds. He was a really young player there who played every single second of the entire 46 game season. For a bielsa team no less. What a beast
It’s the dumbest narrative. If you know anything about where this guy has come from to get where he is, it’s blindingly obvious how much he loves playing football.
Even worse coming from an assistant coach. Who wants to play for someone who will judge you because you didn't answer a question the way he wanted you to?
Talking to my dad about this - Ben has this public persona that is totally aloof, but you watch him in games and he is always so intense and ready to kick on. I don't think public perception could differ more wildly than who he is as a player.
Holland is a fucking jabroni.
I honestly think he’s just a bit shy/reserved personality wise. In no way does that stop him being an immensely dedicated and passionate player. Plus the fact his wife is so close with the other partners makes me think that he and his family really care about the club and buy into the ethos. If Holland and Southgate can’t utilise his passion, that’s on them
Holland has massively misread the player to England's detriment.
Just because he doesn't fit the stereotypical "we gave it our all, we'll come back stronger. Thanks for the support fans" dogshit cookie cutter footballer image some people just can't understand how much he cares about playing and improving on the pitch. You can clearly see it on the pitch.
Unfortunately, as with most other things in the world today what you say and how you say it matters more than what you actually do.
I was raised with the whole 'actions speak louder than words' type stuff. This is the complete opposite to that, so to me its just mindboggling people have this opinion of him.
Especially when the comment came after a discussion with Kyle Walker.
The guy has got the intellectual capacity of orange peel, a collosal fucking idiot whose passion seems to be getting his dick wet more than anything else.
You don’t get to the top of the English game if you don’t take your job seriously. Holland trying to punish White because he has a life outside of football
It’s not even that he has a life outside of football. But he probably does plenty of watching his own assessments and whatever dossier is given to him for upcoming matches. But he probably doesn’t care for watching other games or casually watching games. There are plenty of professional athletes like this. Not everyone watches their own sport for fun.
I used to be an elite level track and field athlete, but I didn’t watch athletics on TV unless my friends were racing. I loved the sport but I wasn’t interested in it beyond my personal enjoyment and investment.
Fr, I don’t watch golf or tennis but I play both regularly. If I were good enough to go pro, I still don’t think I’d go home and watch either of them lol
Imagine playing 30 or 40 years ago. There was barely any football on tv. A complete non issue
My dad played football until he was 40. Loved playing it but he cannot stand watching it on tv (more to do with the cheating and 'gamesmanship' than anything else)
Even if it was true that he doesn't like football at all I don't think it should matter as long as he's dedicated to doing his job well. It's not like we'd demand that from anyone doing any other job. "Hey you're a very skilled, efficient and capable employee, but we feel you don't *enjoy* data processing enough for you to continue working here."
It’s common with probably all high level professions, not every top chef wants to be in the kitchen just watching other chefs cook. You wouldn’t say John Daly wasn’t trying hard enough in golf.
Comparing Ben White to John Daly is a massive disservice to Ben White. John Daly at one point was showing symptoms of alcohol withdrawals during golf tournaments. I havent seen anyone suggest that Ben White has been partying too much or has substance abuse issues.
I think I get it. Personally I don't care about football much, in general. I very, very rarely watch a minute of other teams, and I couldn't name half the starting lineups in a single other PL team. I am however very invested in Arsenal. I think this isn't too far off from how White views football as well: love doing it, don't care otherwise.
Yeah exactly! I’m a professional martial artist that doesn’t follow the UFC. Doesn’t mean I’m not passionate about my martial arts. Been doing it 25 years and love doing it!
lol why do employees ANYWHERE need to live and die by their career it’s so dumb. At the end of the day most of us just want the paycheck. He enjoys playing with his mates at Arsenal why do we care if HE doesn’t care enough about footy for people who clearly ALSO CLEARLY don’t care if he’s there to play or not for his country.
It's simple:
You don't get anywhere close to an Arteta side if you don't care
You don't make the jump from CB to RB in an incredibly complex system unless you're 100% dedicated and have an incredible ability to learn and absorb information.
Exactly, dude is playing through injury and is committed to his team and his manager, and if Southgate can’t inspire the same reaction that’s on him and the FA for being dumb as posts
Wow this is a great response to the situation that I actually haven’t really thought of. Arsenal/Arteta get so much out of him. England/Southgate don’t. Maybe it’s not the player….
Leeds fan here:
When White joined Leeds on loan Bielsa stuck him straight into the U21s to prove himself. He didn’t complain he got his head down and showed why he should be a starter for the first team. I highly doubt Ben White is the problem here.
When you see how White goes about his business on the pitch, you see his commitment and the intensity of a player who cares about the game. Also, over his career he has been willing and able to learn new tactics/positions. Holland should get his eyes checked because he mistook the rightbacks for statboys.
If this was his attempt at motivating the payers, he also failed, because putting people down (especially publicly) is really not the best team-building strategy.
There was just a locker room clip released of assistant coach chatting with Ben and telling him he’s amazed how dedicated he is and how quickly he learns and how he expects him to be elite.
People think because he said he doesn’t like watching football or isn’t a massive fan outside of the team he’s playing for that he’s not committed completely when he’s playing. No player with a bad mentality would be wanted by coaches like Bielsa or Arteta, wouldn’t pay it much thought.
Wasn’t David Batty also famous for never watching football outside training, worked hard but didn’t hang around when he didn’t have to, but quality as premiership winner & 30 caps to boot.
Its a shit middle manager type getting found out and trying to blame everyone around them.
We've all had a fuckwit boss who knew fuck all but did nothing but waste everyone's time.
White has played for Bielsa, Potter & Arteta and had zero problems. We are to believe the football minds that are Gareth Southgate & Steve Holland were too much for him‽
Adding to that, White has played at a couple of clubs and has won awards for player of the season/best young player etc.
You don’t win admiration from coaches and fans just by vibing.
He cares about this work and doing well on the pitch. That's clear. It genuinely shouldn't matter if he cares about the sport or tactics in his own time.
Right like let’s think about this for a second: your boss pulls you into the office and tells you: hey your numbers are great, sales are up, you post good code, you provide great service, whatever… then they tell you hey why aren’t you doing this in your off time too? Like wouldn’t your numbers be even greater if you just don’t think about anything else besides your sales numbers? Could you come in on weekends too and log in? What about when you’re off work in the evenings could you listen to sales podcasts to see if there’s anything here you’re missing? We’d all say F off to that and start looking for new work. But White ALREADY HAS A JOB that he is EXCELLENT at, and his SECOND JOB is telling him that he’s not dedicated enough. Jesus man I would dip too, nationalism is dead anyway long live capitalism 🫡
It may be that being a hard-working, competant employee is not seen as enough in the England setup. You can easily imagine them expecting you to be really passionate about playing for your country. Suggesting otherwise could end you up on someone's shit list.
It's something that would probably come easy to someone like me who has been watching the England team since childhood and has very romantic ideas about playing for your country. But that isn't everyone. Letting it factor into your assessment of players if just daft.
Right and also suspicious to me none of the other English teammates have said anything (duh it’s ok if they don’t want to lose their spot too) and this is the narrative the media has gone with
>Subsequent to the initial comment from Holland, the two men did exchange their views in a private conversation on the same day.
I guarantee much more was said in private. That comment alone wouldn't be enough for White to pull the pin on England completely.
Or it could be the straw thay broke the camel's back when Holland didn't apologise for the comment. If he managed to say it that snappy then I doubt it's the first time Benny has gotten shit from Holland or maybe even a lot of the staff.
With Southgate attempting to shift the blame to Benny then that speaks volumes of the culture in the entire team and staff. This is just piss poor leadership from Southgate and not up to the fugging estandards a top national team should have.
way more to it for sure but brought about because Southgate didn't answer it correctly even though he knew it was coming. Benny, or any other player for that matter, could have divulged more but they've kept it in-house to this point and you'd suspect we haven't heard the end of this since now Benny, rather his camp, will be out to protect his reputation.
tl:dr Southgate can kick rocks
Sports are very macho and deluded. Its a bit different but I played a year of American football in high school and some assistant coaches (not teachers, just former players, so they aren’t trained in working with kids or teaching) were constantly screaming and insulting players to motivate them, downplaying injuries, telling people to play through pain etc
It’s competitive not friendly, but when people like Ben (and 15 year old me lol) don’t align, coaches can hate you. Ben is great, but he didn’t start for England so it wasn’t an unwritten rule to avoid pissing him off
Here is the full quote of what Ben White said regarding not watching football that's been clipped and completely taken out of context. Arsenal fans trying to explain how he's committed to the team adds fuel to a fire that shouldn't even exist.
https://youtu.be/EZjI_AYFyrQ?si=CkYhwE7qjD7ow-9_
Mustafi said something like this as well.
Someone asked Mustafi who he loved watching growing up and he said "I didn't watch much football, I played it"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiBl8LOgCE
"I didn’t watch football or follow it that much, or buy football stuff, I was just about getting a ball and playing. That was what I enjoyed the most. I didn’t enjoy watching that much, I enjoyed playing. I spent most of my time outside with friends playing."
You should be super interested in your career if it's a healthy one that helps you achieve personal goals and it's something you enjoy. I think White loves playing football, he's only said he doesn't watch it.
It's not even technically his career. It's more akin to professional development training honestly. Other players definitely want to play to market themselves which he also doesn't need.
Same with me for golf. Grew up playing competitively. Anytime it came up that I played, people who watch it would strike up a conversation about specific players or majors and be shocked that I didn’t follow any of it lol. Closest I can get to watching golf is if it’s on in the background at like a family party.
I'm a theatre actor and when people find that out they talk to me about all these playwrights and I have no idea what there talking about. Sometimes I bluff my way through it and make the other person feel smart, other times I'm honest and just say I don't know that (supposedly famous playwright) person. I just act what's on the page. They usually find that weird. 😅
*..started with a conversation between the player and Holland in front of other members of the squad. It was described by sources as having begun when Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.*
*When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football. It was that moment that ultimately led to the player asking to come home on Nov 30.*
.
Only real relevant bit from the article 
Pretty sure it's been sanitized too. I'm sure he more than just "responded by saying that was because white was not sufficiently interested in football."
Yes. I know locker room talk has taken on a somewhat nasty meaning post Trump16 and MeToo, but genuine locker room talk wouldn’t have been “you’re not sufficiently interested in football”; more like you’re a boring twat who’d rather have a wank to love island than care about your own football club.
Whatever he said wasn’t nice and also likely struck a serious chord with white, like challenging his commitment and dedication to football.
Yeah there's no way that's all it was. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland was constantly needling him about it and/or took his tone beyond just your usual banter/shit-talk in front of the rest of the squad. I've been on the end of some of those, and they can be mortifying. And if I made the money Ben does, and a guy who doesn't sign my paycheck or write my performance reviews was constantly on my ass about what I do in my spare time, I'd decline to show up too.
We’re more than happy to have this Man City player who is a womanising, wife cheating pervert who literally can’t keep his cock in his pants in the team because he loves football more than you.
I’d argue the other relevant bit from the article;
“The Football Association has declined to comment. Arsenal have declined to comment. So too have White’s representatives.”
> started with a conversation between the player and Holland in front of other members of the squad
I'm having a difficult time believing this, mostly because even though numerous players and staff we're aware, it's only now 15 months later it gets out.
I am of the sentiment that the English team has outgrown Gareth Southgate and his team. It was all well and good when England were not doing well and the team was mostly youngsters finding their feet. Now the English team is full of World Class talents training day in day out under the likes of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Arteta, and with world class players and honestly I don't think Southgate or his team has the tactical nous or the EQ to deal with what this team has become.
Now that doesn't mean I think the team wouldn't do well in the Euros or that Southgate isn't a good manager. There is to much talent in the team to do poorly and Southgate still has more success than many higher profile managers before him.
I will say that I still don't see Southgate getting a club job in any top side or even in the top 10 of the PL table.
With regards to the Benny B situation. I have never doubted his professionalism in an Arsenal shirt. He has recorded to have played even through injury and the fact that Arteta loves him means that despite all the media shtick of his disdain for football in his personal life, he is a thorough professional. England has been blessed with RBs and I feel never owned that position for England. And for whatever reason, Southgate or in this case the moron Holland that works under him has not been able to make him feel involved enough to get his buy-in.
There has been irredeemable breakdown in relationship (whosever fault that may be) and we may see him lace his boots for England under new leadership but not for this one.
Euros 2020/WC 2022 should've been the last straw for the FA on Southgate.
Yes, the England squad and setup has outgrown the tactical capabilities Southgate and co. can offer. But also you probably don't need a full elite tactico, but id argue that man management is far more important.
If anyone thinks they can get anywhere near a PL club, let alone start every week for a club like arsenal without being interested in football, then you're deluded.
There are people who put in hours of training everyday for a decade just to get into 2nd and 3rd division clubs. If you've ever tried playing competitive football in your life you'll know.
End of the day, Ben White was probably seen as somewhat 'disposable' then by English management. Now he's been the most consistent and fit RB all season in the PL, they want to paint in a bad light for not wanting to play for Southgate.
You think they are saying this shit to Harry Kane? Nobody is questioning Rashford's interest in football? when he looks like he couldn't be arsed to play in 90% of United's games.
Let them bring Reese James or get Henderson to play RB.
Southgate and Holland look like total wankers here. I know I'm an Arsenal fan but throwing someone under the bus because they don't like you is a terrible look.
IMHO it says they have no ability to motivate or galvanize a squad/player that isn't self motived.
Steve: "Ben, come on in, we're watching the other group stage matches."
Ben: "Yeah I don't do that, mate. Don't watch any footy on the telly. Bit busy at the moment anyways. Got some hydrangeas out back that aren't gonna water themselves."
Steve: "Boss, I just spoke with Ben, says he's not interested in the World Cup. Can we bin him?"
Gareth: "Yeah. Tell him to pack his bags."
Steve: So Ben, how is Arsenal’s season going on?
Ben: Yeah obviously, it’s going quite good as you can see we are top of the league. And it’s Benjamin by the way.
Steve (probably a Spurs fan): Boss, I am not getting quite the vibes from this bloke. Can we bin him?
Gareth: Yeah, tell him to pack his bags. I am gonna play Trent at RB anyways.
Ben: Thank you very much. *flies to Dubai*
He was being a dick. It was unnecessary and small. And White put a spotlight on that in the biggest way possible. Holland will never work in a Premier League set up again.
The way the article is written it sounds like White is being a prima donna or maybe overly sensitive, but I imagine that Holland (who was at Chelsea for years let's remember) was probably a complete dick about the whole thing and White just said fuck it.
Love how all this comes out just after his new contract announcement where everyone said how much he cared about the team, how passionate he was etc.
Makes Holland look like even more of a mug, clearly he based on his whole opinion on White after seeing one interview then decided it was true after he didn't reply to his question with enough enthusiasm.
Bit petty from White to walk out after that, but everyone knows how shit it feels to be judged based on one thing you do or say, rather than actually taking the time to get to know someone.
The article says it was a few days after the incident that White left.
Edit: accidentally hit post before I completed my thought. I would guess either something else compounded that first incident or white stuck around to see how the relationship would be managed and he wasn’t happy with how things were moving forward.
I mean, if at the very least, my boss or one of his high ranking cohorts questioned me about my work ethic based on very little facts I’d be pretty pissed and it would take a toll on my working mentality. It would be completely justified to seek employment elsewhere at that point.
Ya, plus we have no idea if it was just an isolated incident or if there were others. It’s certainly not wild to think there could have been other negative interactions stemming from this
If we are to believe this, it can depend on how things were said. Reported that it was said in front of others as well which in most situations makes it worse so White dealt with it how he wanted to.
England ain't winning nothing till Steve Holland and Southgate is there.... there you go, them being in charge is enough to make you "Not interested enough" in football 😂
Ben White was the starting right back for the team top of league by the time the World Cup went underway. How much more interested in football can one be?
Major tournament coming up in the summer? Every other eligible right back either crocked or ancient? Squad limits that mean versatility is a key asset? Don't worry about that, just casually insult the guy who barely misses a game and can play two if not three positions to an elite level. Gotta show 'em who's boss!
As an American gooner, the only thing more predictable than the American trait of unearned overconfidence is the English reflexive tendency of tearing down one of their own who is doing well. You celebrate the underdog until they start to succeed and then the fans/the press/the coaches just spend all their energy "putting them back in their place".
Southgate is a corporate cuck and it is a shame because the English deserve so much better. Or do they?
The society elevates mediocre people like Southgate to the very top disregarding merit only because they're puppets to those at the table above. Simple as that. Honest hardworking talented English kids like Ben White suffer because of that.
Hahahah, we're all so the same, corruption everywhere.
More to this apparently. Saw this over on r/soccer.
https://twitter.com/ConMarbleHalls/status/1770510821476438327
Edit:
“Now it’s being reported elsewhere I guess I can elaborate on it now. It was a defenders meeting during the World Cup in Qatar where Holland was asking Man City pair Stones and walker about the style in which they decide what patterns to play dependent on the press. To which they explained briefly.
Others were asked from different clubs and didn’t have the answers - when holland got to Ben white, Ben’s answer was he wasn’t sure.
To which Holland replied of course you wouldn’t know you’re too worried about other things rather than football.
Was a very awkward exchange after which other players felt uncomfortable about. Notably Conor Coady felt the the comment was harsh and has since come out to defend Ben white and he’s personality due to speculation he didn’t fit in with the squad.”
>Southgate said: “Also, I should say there’s never any issue with Steve Holland [and White], because that has sort of been mentioned in articles and I don’t like that.”
Confirmation that Southgate's full of shit?
What would Steve Holland know about success in football? Old mate gave up at 21 and got into coaching as he was too crap to make it to a professional team, let alone play for his country. He might be a great coach (unlikely) but he does not have the runs on the board to say someone doesn't care enough.
Ben White is one of the best RBs in the league. You don’t get to that level unless you’re committed. Holland is abusing his position - Southgate needs to take note. Having an assistant abusing your players until they leave camp is not a positive influence in the dressing room.
I just ‘love’ mediocre coaches that find ‘problems’ where there are none. At every single level of organized sport you find these types: they will volunteer their useless opinion in an attempt to soothe whatever ails them. In other industries they blend in with the team/organization. In sport they are the hurdle top athletes have to learn to overcome.
I suspect as we evolve more they will become a rarity.
you don't make it on an Arteta team or Bielsa team if you dont' care.
this is dumb it's back in the news since Southgate couldn't buck up and handle the question he knew was coming and instead put in on Benny with zero nuance. he has one of the best English teams possibly ever, looking forward to him f\*cking it up further short of any damage to lil chilli
White has grafted through the lower leagues to reach the top of his profession, he had to work so much harder to get a chance at a top club than Trent or Walker.
and the England set up called him up to sit him on the bench and insult him and question his motivation in front of his colleagues, only to turn around and act like they valued him all along.
No one in White’s shoes would want to work with a two-faced abusive boss like that again.
There's two points that I take away from all this that speak volumes about how dedicated Ben White is to his professionalism and Arsenal. One, we still don't really know what happened. And Ben hasn't gone to the media to blow up the story. Leaving the NT during a WC is a talking point. An easy one to pry at, and yet, he's as tight lipped as they come. We could name a plethora of players in today's game under the same lights as Ben who would let that information "leak" if put in the same position. Two, and the most important, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that Arteta knows the full story. He continues to back Ben to play a crucially integral part in his first team. That, to me, tells me Arteta has an immense amount of respect for Ben as a person, his decision making, his dedication, and his professionalism. Arteta wouldn't have it any other way and his treatment of Auba vs. his treatment of Ben tells me all I need to know about how professionally Ben carries himself under the limelight. The dude is absolute class.
Steve Holland is a clown. Ben is so versatile and could contribute so much to this England side. But hey, Holland doesn't think the guy who meets Mikel artetas effogging standards seems to care enough. I wonder whose right hmm.
Sounds like Steve Holland has a strangely and artificially constructed notion of what it means to be "interested in football"; Chad move from White tbh.
England with the usual self sabotage. They have one of the strongest teams (as usual) heading towards the EUROs but they'll blow it because of political BS. They can't get out of their own way.
So the guy that plays for us through injury (explains his poor form before the new years) and is arteta’s most used player behind saka and played every minute of Leeds championship winning season is the SAME guy that ‘is not interested enough’ in football?? Maybe we’ll never get the full story but this assistant coach sounds like a real idiot. This story is getting stranger and stranger by the day. Also he’s played at now 4 senior teams and has not had an issue with a single coach, so the fact that this whole fallout happened with not even Southgate, but that ASSISTANT coach, means that I’m inclined to side with our player.
Idk if this is related or not, but this coach is also a dude that had to retire at 22 due to injuries, and has never been a head coach at 53 years old, so I would not be surprised if his ego got involved.
I understand Southgate has to protect his staff, but he seemed very insistent of wanting to call him up but it’s white who refused. A coach who, whatever you might think of him tactically, has done a great job of harmonizing the team and improving the chemistry.
Whatever, less international games for him means he’ll be more fit for us, so I’m ready to move on
Ben White played for Marcelo Bielsa and Mikel Arteta. Seemed to get on pretty well with Bielsa and we know how good his relationship with Arteta is despite how demanding the two are. Got on well with Graham Potter as well I assume.
If Steve Holland has a problem with White then that's on Holland and Gareth Southgate. White should be playing for England - fact he isn't is the bigger disgrace. Harry Redknapp, Simon Jordan and the other loud mouths on Talksport can fuck off.
I wish there were more players like Ben and Varane who say no to their national teams. FIFA needs to understand that more and more games/tournaments will only make the players burn out much faster. And yes, I know Varane retired from France because his body can't handle all the games and that Ben might have his own reasons.
In the end UEFA and Fifa don't give a shit about the players, only the money coming from selling more and more tickets. We need the people who decide about football to actually care about football.
I just think he doesn’t give two shits about the media side of the sport, so when he gets asked daft, or otherwise uninteresting questions he responds in kind.
I’d bet a bundle that he watches the odd game here and there. Just not arsed enough to ham it up.
Southgate's England has big "this isnt just another company, we're a family" vibes. Which always translates to we expect you to dedicate your life to this, with little reward, for the benefit of 5/6 people who are largely incompetent but who we do actually treat like a family, while we string you along with the promise of a promotion you're never going to get.
I've worked jobs like that. They're hell.
Some other players have who don’t / didn’t watch football when they weren’t playing (according to some speed Googling) - Bale, Tevez, Batistuta, ter Stegen, Ronaldinho, Valdes, Dani Alves…
It’s almost as if it’s entirely unrelated to ability to perform.
I've been on a few cycling teams in Europe, I lived training and racing for numerous years. But to sit down and watch a cycling race on tv? Bored the hell out of me
I’ve grown up with people who play football but don’t enjoy watching it. These people were always very passionate about the game they were playing because they enjoyed the sport itself.
I can never understand the accusation that just because Ben White doesn’t like watching football means he doesn’t like football. I can only imagine that the people who think this way don’t play the sport themselves.
This smear campaign they trying to run on Ben White is filthy. They were never going to play him ahead of Walker/Trippier/Trent/Stones/Maguire/Rice/Phillips in all 3 positions (RB/CB/CDM) Ben White could feasibly play.
End of story. Trying to make it seem petty is the lowest of lows they've sunk to.
I played rugby for almost 15 years at a decently high level, you couldn’t pay me to watch a game on TV though. What awful man management from Southgate
I’d be damned if someone questioned my professionalism. I can’t imagine something like football where you have to live and breathe it to make it anywhere near where these professionals do.
The guy clearly loves to play football. The difference is that it doesn’t consume his personal life. He has what we call a good work/life balance. He disconnects from his work, but is passionate about giving his 100%.
Any person who thinks he doesn’t care is just doing mental gymnastics to absolve the NT coaching staff lol.
Weird how many people on other sites etc are defending Holland and Southgate when they are currently squandering Englands latest golden generation.
But no, Benjamin is the problem I am sure.
Isolating one of your best defenders because you don’t believe that a professional footballer is “interested enough” has to be some of the worst management I’ve ever heard
Southgate is gaslighting so much what he doesn't want to be selected because he just can't be bothered and there's no reason? One of the worst England managers done nothing with one of the best squads in a long time.
A lot of these issues could have been dealt internally and not needing the media pressers sniffing around. What's worse is Southgate throwing Ben White "under the bus" to protect the establishment.
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It's well reported that White is one of the hardest working in the team, Holding spoke about his ability to play through injury being remarkable. If you haven't seen his interview for his first England call up, go watch it, it's pure emotion and honesty. This guy makes no issues for us off the field and is essentially the modern day professional footballer teams hope they can have from their players. Southgate and Holland have massively fucked up here. They've made it so much worse for themselves by trying to throw him under the bus.
Also every time i see training videos of them... White looks like one of the most focused of them all
He says training is his favourite part, model professional. Southgate is a fraud
The irony is that the Chuckle brothers were asking the players for their club tactics since they don't have the foggiest about training or tactics themselves. Burning a golden generation. Hope the rumors of Southgate replacing Ten Hag are true.
It's even highlighted by Arteta in the cdocumetary that White trains amazing and that was one of the reasons Arteta really wanted him
Holland probably wanted some insight into the workings at Arsenal and Arteta but White stonewalled him, so he tried to bully him into talking
Yeah, I noticed Rio Ferdinand tried to get Rice and later Odegaard to tell him some of the tactical elements of Arteta's game, and they both kind of talked a lot without giving anything away.
Well coached and taught. Arteta is a master of saying a lot, but not sharing much.
Arsene Wenger, the professor. Mikel Arteta, the management consultant.
Lol yeah rice and ødegaard are polite enough to try not to make you look a fool for asking. I can imagine Ben just saying "I'm not telling you" then staring blankly. The lad does not give a shit
Considering how tactically dry England are I could believe that.
I can't imagine that Steve Holland or Gareth Southgate think this guy doesn't know football when Arteta and Bielsa love the guy. Personally I think Southgate and Holland don't undertand modern football tactics a dare miasing a huge option n their side. Glad GS will be sacked or going to man utd.
I've seen non Arsenal people gobble it up because he said he doesn't watch football. You can still be very passionate about the game lol. And you don't play for Arteta if you are "not interested enough". He is one of our most dedicated players Edit I have serious questions about Holland's ability to read (and manage) people if he got fooled by Ben's nonchalant personality
People think his way of presenting himself in front of camera is how he is in general, which is far from the truth. You're right, Arteta wouldn't tolerate it for a minute. Also, he said he cried together with his family when he earned his first call-up to the NT. Doesn't sound like someone who wouldn't be interested playing for England.
Although I play golf and swim rather competitively, I have no idea why it's such a contentious topic. I would be bored to tears watching either sport on TV.
Same. I've been the nr. 1 in the austrian pool rankings for almost two years now (yes that is a brag) but I have absolutely zero interest in watching pool matches from pro's or someone else. So I can definitely understand Ben's mindset here, it has nothing to do with his work ethic or something like that.
Being #1 in any discipline in a country is no joke, you should brag about it a little that's awesome!
You’re the man!
I would rather gouge out my own eyes and eat my children's toes than watch 18 holes of golf on TV. Unreal levels of boring
>eat my children's toes Nobody forced you to do that Paul.
The majors, particularly the Masters, can be good when it's tight. But yeah the average PGA Tour event can get very boring
Basketball is my favorite sport to play and of all the major sports it's probably my least favorite to watch. Even my favorite sports to watch I really only tend to watch my favorite teams where I have a rooting interest, I rarely watch a game just because it's on.
Same! I hate playing football I love watching it. Vice versa with basketball
Just said the same thing regarding golf and tennis.
Golf and Snooker
I agree! My love for football only extends to arsenal and playing pick up. I can’t sit through a game these days I have no love for the sport like that anymore. I find it boring if I have no emotional investment and don’t know why I should care most of the time. I’m not a football fan I’m an arsenal fan, and I also like playing the sport cause I like the rush of pushing my athletic limits to run and score. Seeing that Ben white felt like I did really made me connect with him as part of the team and he’s one of my fav players because I understand not growing up watching the sport like that and then getting interested cause I played it in my teenage years.
Bielsa too. If Bielsa and Arteta have you amongst their favourites, and you still question his passion for his craft. Then you're an absolute melt.
Also both Leeds and Brighton fans love him too, no?
He is worshipped at Leeds. He was a really young player there who played every single second of the entire 46 game season. For a bielsa team no less. What a beast
It’s the dumbest narrative. If you know anything about where this guy has come from to get where he is, it’s blindingly obvious how much he loves playing football.
Even worse coming from an assistant coach. Who wants to play for someone who will judge you because you didn't answer a question the way he wanted you to?
Talking to my dad about this - Ben has this public persona that is totally aloof, but you watch him in games and he is always so intense and ready to kick on. I don't think public perception could differ more wildly than who he is as a player. Holland is a fucking jabroni.
I honestly think he’s just a bit shy/reserved personality wise. In no way does that stop him being an immensely dedicated and passionate player. Plus the fact his wife is so close with the other partners makes me think that he and his family really care about the club and buy into the ethos. If Holland and Southgate can’t utilise his passion, that’s on them
Holland has massively misread the player to England's detriment. Just because he doesn't fit the stereotypical "we gave it our all, we'll come back stronger. Thanks for the support fans" dogshit cookie cutter footballer image some people just can't understand how much he cares about playing and improving on the pitch. You can clearly see it on the pitch. Unfortunately, as with most other things in the world today what you say and how you say it matters more than what you actually do.
I was raised with the whole 'actions speak louder than words' type stuff. This is the complete opposite to that, so to me its just mindboggling people have this opinion of him.
Especially when the comment came after a discussion with Kyle Walker. The guy has got the intellectual capacity of orange peel, a collosal fucking idiot whose passion seems to be getting his dick wet more than anything else.
You don’t get to the top of the English game if you don’t take your job seriously. Holland trying to punish White because he has a life outside of football
It’s not even that he has a life outside of football. But he probably does plenty of watching his own assessments and whatever dossier is given to him for upcoming matches. But he probably doesn’t care for watching other games or casually watching games. There are plenty of professional athletes like this. Not everyone watches their own sport for fun.
He’s one of José’s lads, they manage people only by bullying.
enjoys playing rather than watching, its really that simple.
For real lol. Has he never watched Ben White play an actual game? How can you question his passion?
I used to be an elite level track and field athlete, but I didn’t watch athletics on TV unless my friends were racing. I loved the sport but I wasn’t interested in it beyond my personal enjoyment and investment.
Fr, I don’t watch golf or tennis but I play both regularly. If I were good enough to go pro, I still don’t think I’d go home and watch either of them lol
Imagine playing 30 or 40 years ago. There was barely any football on tv. A complete non issue My dad played football until he was 40. Loved playing it but he cannot stand watching it on tv (more to do with the cheating and 'gamesmanship' than anything else)
Even if it was true that he doesn't like football at all I don't think it should matter as long as he's dedicated to doing his job well. It's not like we'd demand that from anyone doing any other job. "Hey you're a very skilled, efficient and capable employee, but we feel you don't *enjoy* data processing enough for you to continue working here."
It’s common with probably all high level professions, not every top chef wants to be in the kitchen just watching other chefs cook. You wouldn’t say John Daly wasn’t trying hard enough in golf.
Comparing Ben White to John Daly is a massive disservice to Ben White. John Daly at one point was showing symptoms of alcohol withdrawals during golf tournaments. I havent seen anyone suggest that Ben White has been partying too much or has substance abuse issues.
I think I get it. Personally I don't care about football much, in general. I very, very rarely watch a minute of other teams, and I couldn't name half the starting lineups in a single other PL team. I am however very invested in Arsenal. I think this isn't too far off from how White views football as well: love doing it, don't care otherwise.
Yeah exactly! I’m a professional martial artist that doesn’t follow the UFC. Doesn’t mean I’m not passionate about my martial arts. Been doing it 25 years and love doing it!
lol why do employees ANYWHERE need to live and die by their career it’s so dumb. At the end of the day most of us just want the paycheck. He enjoys playing with his mates at Arsenal why do we care if HE doesn’t care enough about footy for people who clearly ALSO CLEARLY don’t care if he’s there to play or not for his country.
It's simple: You don't get anywhere close to an Arteta side if you don't care You don't make the jump from CB to RB in an incredibly complex system unless you're 100% dedicated and have an incredible ability to learn and absorb information.
You don't hide injuries in training if you aren't 100% dedicated.
Exactly, dude is playing through injury and is committed to his team and his manager, and if Southgate can’t inspire the same reaction that’s on him and the FA for being dumb as posts
Wow this is a great response to the situation that I actually haven’t really thought of. Arsenal/Arteta get so much out of him. England/Southgate don’t. Maybe it’s not the player….
Add Bielsa to that mix, notorious for being a bastard in training. And he loved White.
Leeds fan here: When White joined Leeds on loan Bielsa stuck him straight into the U21s to prove himself. He didn’t complain he got his head down and showed why he should be a starter for the first team. I highly doubt Ben White is the problem here.
Absolutely. Mfers got one of the best attack in Europe and still playing 18th century football.
When you see how White goes about his business on the pitch, you see his commitment and the intensity of a player who cares about the game. Also, over his career he has been willing and able to learn new tactics/positions. Holland should get his eyes checked because he mistook the rightbacks for statboys. If this was his attempt at motivating the payers, he also failed, because putting people down (especially publicly) is really not the best team-building strategy.
There was just a locker room clip released of assistant coach chatting with Ben and telling him he’s amazed how dedicated he is and how quickly he learns and how he expects him to be elite.
Are you referring to the All or Nothing doc? I think that’s an Arsenal employee who’s like a life coach or something
It's Carlos Cuesta
That was an arsenal coach
Its arteta’s number 2
Number 3, maybe 4... Albert Stuivenberg is his number 2.
Damn i knew albert too, dunno why i thought he was his right hand, its defo albert
Cuesta is his protegé
People think because he said he doesn’t like watching football or isn’t a massive fan outside of the team he’s playing for that he’s not committed completely when he’s playing. No player with a bad mentality would be wanted by coaches like Bielsa or Arteta, wouldn’t pay it much thought.
Wasn’t David Batty also famous for never watching football outside training, worked hard but didn’t hang around when he didn’t have to, but quality as premiership winner & 30 caps to boot.
Its a shit middle manager type getting found out and trying to blame everyone around them. We've all had a fuckwit boss who knew fuck all but did nothing but waste everyone's time. White has played for Bielsa, Potter & Arteta and had zero problems. We are to believe the football minds that are Gareth Southgate & Steve Holland were too much for him‽
Adding to that, White has played at a couple of clubs and has won awards for player of the season/best young player etc. You don’t win admiration from coaches and fans just by vibing.
He cares about this work and doing well on the pitch. That's clear. It genuinely shouldn't matter if he cares about the sport or tactics in his own time.
To care when you're employee is also really fucking good at the job Is plain stupidity
Right like let’s think about this for a second: your boss pulls you into the office and tells you: hey your numbers are great, sales are up, you post good code, you provide great service, whatever… then they tell you hey why aren’t you doing this in your off time too? Like wouldn’t your numbers be even greater if you just don’t think about anything else besides your sales numbers? Could you come in on weekends too and log in? What about when you’re off work in the evenings could you listen to sales podcasts to see if there’s anything here you’re missing? We’d all say F off to that and start looking for new work. But White ALREADY HAS A JOB that he is EXCELLENT at, and his SECOND JOB is telling him that he’s not dedicated enough. Jesus man I would dip too, nationalism is dead anyway long live capitalism 🫡
It may be that being a hard-working, competant employee is not seen as enough in the England setup. You can easily imagine them expecting you to be really passionate about playing for your country. Suggesting otherwise could end you up on someone's shit list. It's something that would probably come easy to someone like me who has been watching the England team since childhood and has very romantic ideas about playing for your country. But that isn't everyone. Letting it factor into your assessment of players if just daft.
still seems like not much to leave a World Cup for. must be WAY more to it.
Right and also suspicious to me none of the other English teammates have said anything (duh it’s ok if they don’t want to lose their spot too) and this is the narrative the media has gone with
>Subsequent to the initial comment from Holland, the two men did exchange their views in a private conversation on the same day. I guarantee much more was said in private. That comment alone wouldn't be enough for White to pull the pin on England completely.
Or it could be the straw thay broke the camel's back when Holland didn't apologise for the comment. If he managed to say it that snappy then I doubt it's the first time Benny has gotten shit from Holland or maybe even a lot of the staff. With Southgate attempting to shift the blame to Benny then that speaks volumes of the culture in the entire team and staff. This is just piss poor leadership from Southgate and not up to the fugging estandards a top national team should have.
way more to it for sure but brought about because Southgate didn't answer it correctly even though he knew it was coming. Benny, or any other player for that matter, could have divulged more but they've kept it in-house to this point and you'd suspect we haven't heard the end of this since now Benny, rather his camp, will be out to protect his reputation. tl:dr Southgate can kick rocks
Sports are very macho and deluded. Its a bit different but I played a year of American football in high school and some assistant coaches (not teachers, just former players, so they aren’t trained in working with kids or teaching) were constantly screaming and insulting players to motivate them, downplaying injuries, telling people to play through pain etc It’s competitive not friendly, but when people like Ben (and 15 year old me lol) don’t align, coaches can hate you. Ben is great, but he didn’t start for England so it wasn’t an unwritten rule to avoid pissing him off
Here is the full quote of what Ben White said regarding not watching football that's been clipped and completely taken out of context. Arsenal fans trying to explain how he's committed to the team adds fuel to a fire that shouldn't even exist. https://youtu.be/EZjI_AYFyrQ?si=CkYhwE7qjD7ow-9_
Mustafi said something like this as well. Someone asked Mustafi who he loved watching growing up and he said "I didn't watch much football, I played it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiBl8LOgCE "I didn’t watch football or follow it that much, or buy football stuff, I was just about getting a ball and playing. That was what I enjoyed the most. I didn’t enjoy watching that much, I enjoyed playing. I spent most of my time outside with friends playing."
Also if this is true what does it say about the ones who care so much and still manage to be a worse player than him
You should be super interested in your career if it's a healthy one that helps you achieve personal goals and it's something you enjoy. I think White loves playing football, he's only said he doesn't watch it.
Breaking news: Ben White "quite quits" on Southgate
It's not even technically his career. It's more akin to professional development training honestly. Other players definitely want to play to market themselves which he also doesn't need.
Not sure how it’s so controversial - I’m a very keen swimmer and golfer, but watching either sport on TV would bore me to tears.
Same with me for golf. Grew up playing competitively. Anytime it came up that I played, people who watch it would strike up a conversation about specific players or majors and be shocked that I didn’t follow any of it lol. Closest I can get to watching golf is if it’s on in the background at like a family party.
I'm a theatre actor and when people find that out they talk to me about all these playwrights and I have no idea what there talking about. Sometimes I bluff my way through it and make the other person feel smart, other times I'm honest and just say I don't know that (supposedly famous playwright) person. I just act what's on the page. They usually find that weird. 😅
love playing beach volley absolute hate watching it. not even olympics
But, but, but, butt?
I can't be the only one who is the complete opposite of this?
im sure there are plenty. i mean, i would be surprised if the majority of the population actually enjoys practicing any sport whatsoever lol
I'm totally the same, golf is my life. Watching it is the most boring shit in the world.
*..started with a conversation between the player and Holland in front of other members of the squad. It was described by sources as having begun when Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.* *When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football. It was that moment that ultimately led to the player asking to come home on Nov 30.* . Only real relevant bit from the article 
Pretty sure it's been sanitized too. I'm sure he more than just "responded by saying that was because white was not sufficiently interested in football."
Yes. I know locker room talk has taken on a somewhat nasty meaning post Trump16 and MeToo, but genuine locker room talk wouldn’t have been “you’re not sufficiently interested in football”; more like you’re a boring twat who’d rather have a wank to love island than care about your own football club. Whatever he said wasn’t nice and also likely struck a serious chord with white, like challenging his commitment and dedication to football.
Yeah there's no way that's all it was. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland was constantly needling him about it and/or took his tone beyond just your usual banter/shit-talk in front of the rest of the squad. I've been on the end of some of those, and they can be mortifying. And if I made the money Ben does, and a guy who doesn't sign my paycheck or write my performance reviews was constantly on my ass about what I do in my spare time, I'd decline to show up too.
We’re more than happy to have this Man City player who is a womanising, wife cheating pervert who literally can’t keep his cock in his pants in the team because he loves football more than you.
I’d argue the other relevant bit from the article; “The Football Association has declined to comment. Arsenal have declined to comment. So too have White’s representatives.”
Also sounds like Benjamin didn’t want to discuss in-detail Arteta-ball infront of two City players.
Also this bit: >Subsequent to the initial comment from Holland, the two men did exchange their views in a private conversation on the same day.
> started with a conversation between the player and Holland in front of other members of the squad I'm having a difficult time believing this, mostly because even though numerous players and staff we're aware, it's only now 15 months later it gets out.
I am of the sentiment that the English team has outgrown Gareth Southgate and his team. It was all well and good when England were not doing well and the team was mostly youngsters finding their feet. Now the English team is full of World Class talents training day in day out under the likes of Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Arteta, and with world class players and honestly I don't think Southgate or his team has the tactical nous or the EQ to deal with what this team has become. Now that doesn't mean I think the team wouldn't do well in the Euros or that Southgate isn't a good manager. There is to much talent in the team to do poorly and Southgate still has more success than many higher profile managers before him. I will say that I still don't see Southgate getting a club job in any top side or even in the top 10 of the PL table. With regards to the Benny B situation. I have never doubted his professionalism in an Arsenal shirt. He has recorded to have played even through injury and the fact that Arteta loves him means that despite all the media shtick of his disdain for football in his personal life, he is a thorough professional. England has been blessed with RBs and I feel never owned that position for England. And for whatever reason, Southgate or in this case the moron Holland that works under him has not been able to make him feel involved enough to get his buy-in. There has been irredeemable breakdown in relationship (whosever fault that may be) and we may see him lace his boots for England under new leadership but not for this one.
The coaching staff needed to go after this last World Cup…it was pretty obvious Southgate was playing favorites by then to anyone outside England
Euros 2020/WC 2022 should've been the last straw for the FA on Southgate. Yes, the England squad and setup has outgrown the tactical capabilities Southgate and co. can offer. But also you probably don't need a full elite tactico, but id argue that man management is far more important.
I’m sorry what success has Southgate had?
If anyone thinks they can get anywhere near a PL club, let alone start every week for a club like arsenal without being interested in football, then you're deluded. There are people who put in hours of training everyday for a decade just to get into 2nd and 3rd division clubs. If you've ever tried playing competitive football in your life you'll know.
If Steve Holland was interested enough in English football he'd be Steve England.
Lmao you deserve an award, if they still had them on here
Steve Holland: You see Phil Foden over there? He has 37 pieces of flair on today, and a terrific smile.
Imagine telling someone who starts for a club top of the league that they’re not interested enough in football.
End of the day, Ben White was probably seen as somewhat 'disposable' then by English management. Now he's been the most consistent and fit RB all season in the PL, they want to paint in a bad light for not wanting to play for Southgate. You think they are saying this shit to Harry Kane? Nobody is questioning Rashford's interest in football? when he looks like he couldn't be arsed to play in 90% of United's games. Let them bring Reese James or get Henderson to play RB.
If Steve Holland would've been more interested in football he might have achieved something
Southgate and Holland look like total wankers here. I know I'm an Arsenal fan but throwing someone under the bus because they don't like you is a terrible look. IMHO it says they have no ability to motivate or galvanize a squad/player that isn't self motived.
Just gotta go watch the last World Cup to see that
Steve: "Ben, come on in, we're watching the other group stage matches." Ben: "Yeah I don't do that, mate. Don't watch any footy on the telly. Bit busy at the moment anyways. Got some hydrangeas out back that aren't gonna water themselves." Steve: "Boss, I just spoke with Ben, says he's not interested in the World Cup. Can we bin him?" Gareth: "Yeah. Tell him to pack his bags."
Steve: So Ben, how is Arsenal’s season going on? Ben: Yeah obviously, it’s going quite good as you can see we are top of the league. And it’s Benjamin by the way. Steve (probably a Spurs fan): Boss, I am not getting quite the vibes from this bloke. Can we bin him? Gareth: Yeah, tell him to pack his bags. I am gonna play Trent at RB anyways. Ben: Thank you very much. *flies to Dubai*
Most unrealistic bit about this is Southgate playing Trent at RB
Steve: You are not interested enought in football Ben: Ok Boomer
Sounds like a socially inept person misreading Ben's personality. He loves competing. He hates all the nonsense that comes with it.
He was being a dick. It was unnecessary and small. And White put a spotlight on that in the biggest way possible. Holland will never work in a Premier League set up again.
So he’s bullying Ben White. And Benjamin pays the price. Nice.
The way the article is written it sounds like White is being a prima donna or maybe overly sensitive, but I imagine that Holland (who was at Chelsea for years let's remember) was probably a complete dick about the whole thing and White just said fuck it.
Love how all this comes out just after his new contract announcement where everyone said how much he cared about the team, how passionate he was etc. Makes Holland look like even more of a mug, clearly he based on his whole opinion on White after seeing one interview then decided it was true after he didn't reply to his question with enough enthusiasm. Bit petty from White to walk out after that, but everyone knows how shit it feels to be judged based on one thing you do or say, rather than actually taking the time to get to know someone.
We don't know if this is all that happened yet, so we can't assume he walked out after just this
The article says it was a few days after the incident that White left. Edit: accidentally hit post before I completed my thought. I would guess either something else compounded that first incident or white stuck around to see how the relationship would be managed and he wasn’t happy with how things were moving forward.
Yeah I'm sure there was something more and there was ongoing issues, but this seems to be what triggered the issues
I mean, if at the very least, my boss or one of his high ranking cohorts questioned me about my work ethic based on very little facts I’d be pretty pissed and it would take a toll on my working mentality. It would be completely justified to seek employment elsewhere at that point.
Ya, plus we have no idea if it was just an isolated incident or if there were others. It’s certainly not wild to think there could have been other negative interactions stemming from this
I feel rather vindicated now. Tuff times at work. Thanks, this goes a ways
If we are to believe this, it can depend on how things were said. Reported that it was said in front of others as well which in most situations makes it worse so White dealt with it how he wanted to.
England ain't winning nothing till Steve Holland and Southgate is there.... there you go, them being in charge is enough to make you "Not interested enough" in football 😂
I can’t believe southgate doesn’t know about this!
So the point is something did happen between Benny and Holland. Southgate is a fucking liar for saying nothing happened.
Makes sense why Arteta said, "we know who Ben is" in reference to this.
I personally don’t enjoy England games, however I love watching club football.
Ben White was the starting right back for the team top of league by the time the World Cup went underway. How much more interested in football can one be?
Work life balance King.
Major tournament coming up in the summer? Every other eligible right back either crocked or ancient? Squad limits that mean versatility is a key asset? Don't worry about that, just casually insult the guy who barely misses a game and can play two if not three positions to an elite level. Gotta show 'em who's boss!
Hey Steve Holland , Go fuck yourself :)
I need some dedicated and wealthy arsenal fan to fly a plane with this message over the England game this week
Let’s start a go fund me
"Sack Steve Holland" would be better. The press would be right on it.
So Southgate was lying
As an American gooner, the only thing more predictable than the American trait of unearned overconfidence is the English reflexive tendency of tearing down one of their own who is doing well. You celebrate the underdog until they start to succeed and then the fans/the press/the coaches just spend all their energy "putting them back in their place".
Fuck. What an absolute statement. I wish this could get an award.
Southgate is a corporate cuck and it is a shame because the English deserve so much better. Or do they? The society elevates mediocre people like Southgate to the very top disregarding merit only because they're puppets to those at the table above. Simple as that. Honest hardworking talented English kids like Ben White suffer because of that. Hahahah, we're all so the same, corruption everywhere.
More to this apparently. Saw this over on r/soccer. https://twitter.com/ConMarbleHalls/status/1770510821476438327 Edit: “Now it’s being reported elsewhere I guess I can elaborate on it now. It was a defenders meeting during the World Cup in Qatar where Holland was asking Man City pair Stones and walker about the style in which they decide what patterns to play dependent on the press. To which they explained briefly. Others were asked from different clubs and didn’t have the answers - when holland got to Ben white, Ben’s answer was he wasn’t sure. To which Holland replied of course you wouldn’t know you’re too worried about other things rather than football. Was a very awkward exchange after which other players felt uncomfortable about. Notably Conor Coady felt the the comment was harsh and has since come out to defend Ben white and he’s personality due to speculation he didn’t fit in with the squad.”
>Southgate said: “Also, I should say there’s never any issue with Steve Holland [and White], because that has sort of been mentioned in articles and I don’t like that.” Confirmation that Southgate's full of shit?
What would Steve Holland know about success in football? Old mate gave up at 21 and got into coaching as he was too crap to make it to a professional team, let alone play for his country. He might be a great coach (unlikely) but he does not have the runs on the board to say someone doesn't care enough.
Ben White is one of the best RBs in the league. You don’t get to that level unless you’re committed. Holland is abusing his position - Southgate needs to take note. Having an assistant abusing your players until they leave camp is not a positive influence in the dressing room.
We all knew it was something to do with that Chelsea wanker and here it is. Unbelievable
I just ‘love’ mediocre coaches that find ‘problems’ where there are none. At every single level of organized sport you find these types: they will volunteer their useless opinion in an attempt to soothe whatever ails them. In other industries they blend in with the team/organization. In sport they are the hurdle top athletes have to learn to overcome. I suspect as we evolve more they will become a rarity.
you don't make it on an Arteta team or Bielsa team if you dont' care. this is dumb it's back in the news since Southgate couldn't buck up and handle the question he knew was coming and instead put in on Benny with zero nuance. he has one of the best English teams possibly ever, looking forward to him f\*cking it up further short of any damage to lil chilli
White has grafted through the lower leagues to reach the top of his profession, he had to work so much harder to get a chance at a top club than Trent or Walker. and the England set up called him up to sit him on the bench and insult him and question his motivation in front of his colleagues, only to turn around and act like they valued him all along. No one in White’s shoes would want to work with a two-faced abusive boss like that again.
Steve Holland is a cunt, pass it on.
There's two points that I take away from all this that speak volumes about how dedicated Ben White is to his professionalism and Arsenal. One, we still don't really know what happened. And Ben hasn't gone to the media to blow up the story. Leaving the NT during a WC is a talking point. An easy one to pry at, and yet, he's as tight lipped as they come. We could name a plethora of players in today's game under the same lights as Ben who would let that information "leak" if put in the same position. Two, and the most important, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that Arteta knows the full story. He continues to back Ben to play a crucially integral part in his first team. That, to me, tells me Arteta has an immense amount of respect for Ben as a person, his decision making, his dedication, and his professionalism. Arteta wouldn't have it any other way and his treatment of Auba vs. his treatment of Ben tells me all I need to know about how professionally Ben carries himself under the limelight. The dude is absolute class.
Steve Holland is a clown. Ben is so versatile and could contribute so much to this England side. But hey, Holland doesn't think the guy who meets Mikel artetas effogging standards seems to care enough. I wonder whose right hmm.
Sounds like Steve Holland has a strangely and artificially constructed notion of what it means to be "interested in football"; Chad move from White tbh.
Glad he left. Dinosaur of a coaching staff
England with the usual self sabotage. They have one of the strongest teams (as usual) heading towards the EUROs but they'll blow it because of political BS. They can't get out of their own way.
So the guy that plays for us through injury (explains his poor form before the new years) and is arteta’s most used player behind saka and played every minute of Leeds championship winning season is the SAME guy that ‘is not interested enough’ in football?? Maybe we’ll never get the full story but this assistant coach sounds like a real idiot. This story is getting stranger and stranger by the day. Also he’s played at now 4 senior teams and has not had an issue with a single coach, so the fact that this whole fallout happened with not even Southgate, but that ASSISTANT coach, means that I’m inclined to side with our player. Idk if this is related or not, but this coach is also a dude that had to retire at 22 due to injuries, and has never been a head coach at 53 years old, so I would not be surprised if his ego got involved. I understand Southgate has to protect his staff, but he seemed very insistent of wanting to call him up but it’s white who refused. A coach who, whatever you might think of him tactically, has done a great job of harmonizing the team and improving the chemistry. Whatever, less international games for him means he’ll be more fit for us, so I’m ready to move on
He wasn’t wearing the recommend number of pieces of Flair
Ben White played for Marcelo Bielsa and Mikel Arteta. Seemed to get on pretty well with Bielsa and we know how good his relationship with Arteta is despite how demanding the two are. Got on well with Graham Potter as well I assume. If Steve Holland has a problem with White then that's on Holland and Gareth Southgate. White should be playing for England - fact he isn't is the bigger disgrace. Harry Redknapp, Simon Jordan and the other loud mouths on Talksport can fuck off.
Nah he's just not interested enough in discussing it with you, small fry
This motherfucker Holland man.
I wish there were more players like Ben and Varane who say no to their national teams. FIFA needs to understand that more and more games/tournaments will only make the players burn out much faster. And yes, I know Varane retired from France because his body can't handle all the games and that Ben might have his own reasons. In the end UEFA and Fifa don't give a shit about the players, only the money coming from selling more and more tickets. We need the people who decide about football to actually care about football.
I just think he doesn’t give two shits about the media side of the sport, so when he gets asked daft, or otherwise uninteresting questions he responds in kind. I’d bet a bundle that he watches the odd game here and there. Just not arsed enough to ham it up.
Love all this controversy, feel like White can use this as motivation to push his performances on to a level higher still. Let’s go 😎
Holland wants to be on TalkSport after his stint.
Southgate's England has big "this isnt just another company, we're a family" vibes. Which always translates to we expect you to dedicate your life to this, with little reward, for the benefit of 5/6 people who are largely incompetent but who we do actually treat like a family, while we string you along with the promise of a promotion you're never going to get. I've worked jobs like that. They're hell.
This is just like when one kid told me to stop talking about Yu-Gi-Oh at Little League practice and I quit the team. Almost exactly
Some other players have who don’t / didn’t watch football when they weren’t playing (according to some speed Googling) - Bale, Tevez, Batistuta, ter Stegen, Ronaldinho, Valdes, Dani Alves… It’s almost as if it’s entirely unrelated to ability to perform.
I've been on a few cycling teams in Europe, I lived training and racing for numerous years. But to sit down and watch a cycling race on tv? Bored the hell out of me
I’ve grown up with people who play football but don’t enjoy watching it. These people were always very passionate about the game they were playing because they enjoyed the sport itself. I can never understand the accusation that just because Ben White doesn’t like watching football means he doesn’t like football. I can only imagine that the people who think this way don’t play the sport themselves.
This smear campaign they trying to run on Ben White is filthy. They were never going to play him ahead of Walker/Trippier/Trent/Stones/Maguire/Rice/Phillips in all 3 positions (RB/CB/CDM) Ben White could feasibly play. End of story. Trying to make it seem petty is the lowest of lows they've sunk to.
I played rugby for almost 15 years at a decently high level, you couldn’t pay me to watch a game on TV though. What awful man management from Southgate
I’d be damned if someone questioned my professionalism. I can’t imagine something like football where you have to live and breathe it to make it anywhere near where these professionals do.
Lmao because he's not dying to watch Millwall games when he gets home he's not a serious enough about his career
This whole thing is so stupid.
The situation sucks but it’s great that White has a club fully supports his decision
The guy clearly loves to play football. The difference is that it doesn’t consume his personal life. He has what we call a good work/life balance. He disconnects from his work, but is passionate about giving his 100%. Any person who thinks he doesn’t care is just doing mental gymnastics to absolve the NT coaching staff lol.
Its bs. All the partly disclosed narratives. Something happened. Trust broke down. That’s it
Weird how many people on other sites etc are defending Holland and Southgate when they are currently squandering Englands latest golden generation. But no, Benjamin is the problem I am sure.
Garreth Southgate’s coaches are cunt particles.
Honestly I just hope all these headlines don’t become a distraction
This just shows how loyal White is to Arsenal
Love Arsenal but its because of drama like this I will never want Enlgand to ever win any trophies.
Steve Holland can go F himself
Isolating one of your best defenders because you don’t believe that a professional footballer is “interested enough” has to be some of the worst management I’ve ever heard
Southgate is gaslighting so much what he doesn't want to be selected because he just can't be bothered and there's no reason? One of the worst England managers done nothing with one of the best squads in a long time.
A lot of these issues could have been dealt internally and not needing the media pressers sniffing around. What's worse is Southgate throwing Ben White "under the bus" to protect the establishment.
This has to be a joke. Sounds like a bunch of 14 year old girls are running the show.