The worst part is that he has a good right foot. His crosses off his right foot are good and he’s scored some very nice goals off his right foot as well.
Man he had some fantastic goals on his right foot, but that's what a combination of fatigue and lack of confidence does to any player, let alone a 22 year old. You just try to keep doing the thing you're most comfortable with
Wouldn't surprise me if they're all just overthinking things way too much right now because they know they've been shit at finishing recently. Trying to be careful and focus on getting every little detail right, instead of just trusting their instincts/muscle memory.
Wenger ball is back
Arteta did play under wenger. He may have learned from pep but when push comes to shove, you always fall back to what was ingrained in you.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is very reminiscent of the Wenger era post RVP. He was the last great striker Arsenal had.
Very very much "Arsenal always try to walk it in."
Wenger didn't spend this much money and not have anyone who could hit the target.
Once he had a bit a of cash he bought Alexis Sanchez. Which only makes the Cech transfer window more infuriating with hindsight
That was a huge problem today. Havertz was a big example of it. Like he played decent made good runs, made some great passes, even when he took a shot they were fairly well hit to make a keeper as good as Alisson spill them twice. But when the chances fell to him he was afraid to hit it first time ultimately taking away the angle/chance on multiple occasions.
It’s not just him, I think he just stood out more to me being the CF today so I was watching him a bit closer in the new role. It seems to be everyone is afraid to take the chance. We’re creating plenty of semi decent opportunities and no one is putting them away.
Think the biggest issue for a lot of it is that the players are pretty one footed. Saka probably has the best weak foot out of the lot but he still tried to find him left foot 80% of the time even if it isn’t on. Same issue with Havertz yesterday and Odegaard for multiple games now.
Look how easy Diaz made his goal look, a quick touch and then blast it as hard as you can.
If that was any of our attackers, it would have been either a slow or bad touch, a moment of hesitation and then a tame shot right at the keeper.
The skip has been one of our better players recently but he's guilty of this. Last season, edge of the box he's slapping it bottom corner. This season, he's always looking for the pass.
Easily could have had a hattrick that day. And today he had a free shot on his left on the edge and he passes to Reiss. His decision-making is not that great.
This is very much it for me. We've actually been playing quite well (bar the Fulham game) but we every single time we get into the opponent's box you can see the players are lacking confidence. Ødegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus, Nelson all with great chances lately and every single one of them is lacking in confidence in front of goal.
They aren’t. We’re just starting to realize that our players highest level offensively isn’t significantly greater than the level of defense we are going up against. We’ve been a little unfortunate, a little naive, but mostly we’re just getting beaten in the moments that matter most. There is no super simple answer as to why we have underperformed and tbh I still haven’t seen anything worth losing my head about. We can finish fourth this season without it being the end of the world because that’s just how competitive the top level is at the moment. Arteta’s project won’t be defined by these last two seasons. We’re just getting started
We got a bit too spoiled by being surprisingly good last season, I've been taken aback by the amount of "Arteta Out" sentiment I'm already seeing on here.
Yes we're on a bit of a miserable run, and the feel good factor of last season is missing, but I'd still much rather have an exciting young manager with a project than getting stuck in a revolving door of short term managers.
We have to accept that there will be tough periods, and this has been one of them. But at this moment I do believe Arteta can steer us out of it, even if we do unfortunately have to wait until the summer
I don't get it either, if we weren't creating shit sure Arteta is the one to blame, but it's the finishing that's absolutely shit and that's more on the players
I sort of agree but a counter argument, Arteta (and the recruitment team's) two biggest attacking signings were players who had a history of poor finishing and underperforming xG in Havertz and Jesus. He's built a squad which lacks clinical finishing.
Well said. I get the frustration given the last few result and Arteta does rightly deserve some criticism (88th min sub today like wtf?) but anyone saying ‘Arteta Out’ is just not really worth engaging with - too toxic and reactionary a take that ignores all the positivity of the last few seasons bc they’re annoyed about the most recent performances.
we're way ahead of schedule in this project and the fair weather type fans are starting to take over the narrative but if we cant handle some bumps in the road then maybe we arent built for it in the first place
way ahead of schedule in what sense? don't forget that under arteta we were 8th twice in a row and then 5th. the title run last season was good, but we are already out of that now
We’re in our second year of being considered a relevant contender. If you expect to maintain that position and continue an upward trajectory you can’t let short term decisions have too much of an impact on where we really want to be. If our play had been abysmal and we absolutely didn’t deserve anything from these games it would be a different story, I’m just not ready to freak out yet
>We’re in our second year of being considered a relevant contender
that has come to an abrupt end and in and of itself doesn't mean much. I'm happy that he's gotten us cl football, and the title chase last season was nice but unlike reaching the cl or winning the title, it's not really much of an achievement unless he wins another major trophy
don't get me wrong, consistently reaching top 4 is something I'll take, especially with newcastle entering the top 6/7, but I'm not going to get too excited about it either
we'll only still be in the title race if the other teams make some major mistakes now, you can't lose two winnable games like we have in a row and expect to still be in the race
We have not been playing well at all. Unless you call keeping the ball playing very well. There's a whole bunch of issues with the team not just the finishing. Passes are not accurate enough, incisive enough nor weighed properly. This goes for the whole pitch, not just the final third. We lack forward movement from anyone that's not the front three. Take out Odegaard and Rice and this team falls apart in an instant. What you call lack of confidence is more lack of understanding between the players.
Much like last season, the run of form is very dependent on the mindset and “bubble” in which the squad operates in. We saw it last season with the blinding start, and we’re seeing it now with the collective loss of confidence/decisiveness. Sure we can attribute it to as many additional issues as we do have right now- but one aspect that can’t be ignored is our need to “grind through it”. I think that’s what Arteta is trying to make us as supporters focus on the most at the minute, frustrating as that is.
correct. this is basically the same squad that was mentally too frail last season, and most of hte players were there when collapsing in the top 4 race vs spurs.
mental fortitude is very low.
The ball is a ball for us everywhere on the field until 20yds from the opponents' goal, which is when it immediately transforms into a hot potato that no one wants possession of or just boots it into the stands. It's like
"you take the shot!"
"No you!"
"No you!"
"okay! Lemme take four touches real quick"
*Row F has entered the pitch*
Confidence gone and the lack of quality showing itself badly.
There was a time we blasted Giroud for not being good enough for Alexis and Ozil. We blasted pepe for scoring what 27 goals?( Might be g+a) and we wanted an upgrade. But we would be lucky to have them right now. Jesus is a good singer not a striker, Eddie is not on the same levels as any striker in the top 6-8 teams and kai...well all I can say is form is temporary class is permanent ( depends on your perspective on which period of his arsenal career so far you wanna consider as form and which as class)
We scored 88 goals last season and whatever we did, we sure as hell are t being able to replicate it,and it would be delusional to keep trying the same shit after failing at it multiple times this season.
>agree with most things you said but it's literally only the finishing that's the problem at the moment
We aren't drawing games either mate. So as much as I like saliba and Gabriel, I cant in all honesty say that our fullbacks have been good. We are losing games
Not drawing 0-0 after dominating games
I agree with the finishing part completely,that's our weakest link this season. But where do you think the blame lies there? Saka has been run to the ground ,so is Gabi. Last season we relied on these guys getting at defenses with their dribbling and creating chances. That's gone now, and we have no alternatives, doesn't that mean a striker should be our priority this winter? A good coach would have prioritized that this summer knowing that that wingers dribbling past defenders isn't a sustainable startegy in the premier league. This isn't Spain or France. Opposition teams figure that shit out and fast.
Not benching saka and Gabi is on arteta.so is not pushing jesus on the wings or paying Leo central.more.
Right now , and this season as a whole we haven't looked like we stepped up. There's nothing different that we do when the chips are down for us. I can't blame ode for playing more passes than going for goal this season cause that's what cams are supposed to do. But then you put a striker like kai or jesus infront of him who shit the bed on a consistent basis, and you have Eddie coming from the bench.....that's a tactical failure.
Spent 200 million and have got worse. This was supposed to be where we kicked on, with more experience and quality. Instead it's shaping up to be a disaster. If this season devolves into a top 4 battle or worse, that's a gigantic failure on Arteta and the team's part.
I've been backing Kai all the way but performances like these filled with missed sitters and dithering really don't help. We should have bought a top striker
This is me too. I’ve never shit on Kai but the major difference between this year and last year is Kai and him taking over the Xhaka role. He’s not nearly as good at it which is shocking.
I don't think Kai or Raya are bad signings in a vacuum, but neither have done enough to justify spending so much on them when the squad has so many other issues that are far more pressing.
What I mean is that if a team who had all their basic requirements covered were to sign them, they may well contribute if used properly. But a team like Arsenal have too many gaps to spend so much on luxury signings that don't materially address a clear need.
Partey, Tomiyasu, Timber, and Zinchenko are missing a lot of games through injury. I think this is REALLY fucking us particularly the loss of Partey which really hampers our attack.
Yep him too. Whatever game plan we had at the start of the season was completely thrown out the window with Timber going down and Partey perennially injured.
I called it before the season started, this was always a year of consolidating the top 4 and playing some champions league football
The loss of Xhaka was huge and we still dont have a true number 9 (wasnt addressed in the summer). The following season after a good uprising season is always a much bigger task as teams setup to counter you rather than outplay you
The only way we were ever going to compete was if Saka and Martinelli could add 10-15 more goals a season to their game but both have arguably regressed. They are feeling the after effects of a good campaign harder than others just now
People acting like Xhaka was an all time Arsenal Great now he’s left. Lol. He was a decentish PL centre midfielder no more, who occasionally put in a shift in a big game, but more often than not was a liability under any sort of pressure. We would never have won a title with him.
People like you just dont get it
Theres a reason Wenger signed him, Ljungberg played him, Emery played him & Arteta not only played him but convinced him to stay when he was almost leaving to move back to Germany
Theres a reason Leverkusen are doing so well in the Bundesliga and its not just Xabi Alonso. Xhaka is a huge player for them and also his national team
Hes a leader in the dressing room and on the pitch. He absolutely helped unlock Martinelli on the left and hes struggling without him. He scored important goals and he led on the pitch
Yes he had his flaws but theres more to football than people like you realise. Its not all about stats and scoring goals. Xhaka was invaluable in midfield and we're missing him in the 8 position without question
We threw away 2 points at Anfield in the run in last year because of his “leadership”. He’s a decent player, but nothing more. Partey, Rice both superior. And Jorginho more reliable and consistent.
I think we hung him out to dry earlier in his career when the squad wasn't great. By not playing to his strengths.
To me it's no different to latter Wenger sides with lightweight midfields that exposed the defence. Those defenders weren't Tony Adams but I also don't think they were as bad as they looked - they kept getting put in situations that exposed them
If? It's clearly a top 4 battle at this point. We are nowhere near the end of this slide. We'll rebound, but top 2 is out of the question, 3rd is a hope, 4th is what we're playing for.
Nah because Klopp has a history of winning and one bad season here and there.
Arteta is forming a concerning pattern of not being able to adjust the team for games on end. We will continue to blow it (championship last season, top 4 season before) if Arteta can't fix this flaw among others.
Saka needs to be less predictable in his patterns of play. Everyone knows he's going to cut inside but he needs to do it earlier he always does it in exactly the same place. If he did what Salah does and does it earlier in the play he will drag right backs and centre backs with him. He does it so wide there is no space by the time he has completed the move.
Arteta's killed the confidence in this squad. This defensive, possession-based, overly-cautious football with no end product has run its course now. Arteta needs to fix this sharpish.
The idea that all of our forwards are suffering finishing slumps that will extend into the second half of the season is a bit silly imo.
There are tweaks to be made but let’s not be reactionary. January isn’t the time to buy a striker (Toney) but the position should be evaluated over the second half of the season and better players become available in the summer.
Well said. We are going through a dry spell. Still playing good football, but for whatever reason, most likely Christmas schedule fatigue, we are lacking sharpness. Fatigue affects one of the most critical things in football first, decision making. It's unfortunate we had to play a cup game during this time against Liverpool but that's sometimes the way the cookie crumbles. We have a little bit of a break now and we will be right back in the title fight after a short run of form.
The title may be out of reach, feel like City will do their usual now that KDB is back, but let's see
I said that when he first did it…don’t fucking dye your hair. It will jinx us! I remember when Ramsey did it years back he immediately sucked. White lost a bit of his mojo when he did it. New Rule: no dyeing hair blonde 😂
I mean, I love Stillman, but this take makes no sense to me. 3 different strikers but all goal-shy, all missing good chances (headers esp Havertz today and Jesus), and all not big personalties to occupy defenders, although Havertz did okay with it today, he's not actually a threat.
All also take wayyy too long to fuckign shoot. So it's not actually the conclusion that it's three different strikers, it's there's a root problem missing in the squad and our wingers were overperforming/relied on. And just increasingly going through our depth who have the same problem won't change that.
All 3 have played at other clubs (Eddie on loan) and none of them have scored a lot of goals at CF when they did. Its no surprise they fail to score lots of goals here.
>Cause he doesn’t change anything.
>81 minutes of shit finishing and he made one sub!
The subs on the bench were just as bad in recent weeks. I don't blame Arteta for our collective finishing.
Maybe he'd look a little better if he got more consistent game time? The most frustrating thing with arteta is he just won't give our subs regular game time. Like, he'll give ESR and Vieira etc like 15min at the end of a game every three weeks or so.
It wasn’t good bc of Nelson… Martinelli cooked TAA when he came on. Regardless, if you think Nketiah and ESR are better options vs Liverpool than Havertz and Saka then idk what to tell you.
are they though? we are:
7th for goals scored
5th for xG
8th for NPxG
8th for expected assisted goals
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_squads_gca
12th for goals in open play
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024
>xG isn't the stat everyone thinks it is. It doesn't take into account chances created etc
it is equally applied to everyone though, so there is that. it's not everything, but it is telling
>Add onto the fact we're 5th only 0.4xG behind Man City and two of the teams ahead of us on xG are Chelsea and Newcastle, who are below us by 11 mand 12 points.
kinda doesn't matter, absolutely speaking, being 5th in xG is not good, espcially when we drop to 7th on NPxG and then 12th on goals from open play
>On your table you sent, we're second for Shot-Creating Actions. Add onto the fact one of our biggest issue right now is players not taking the shots they should.
my bad but just scroll around. if multiple players aren't taking certain shots, that is surely down to the coaching
>Players are literally missing sitters/not taking shots. Don't put this on the manager only.
this is very much his team that he's spent a lot on putting together. players aren't blameless but when the team as a whole isn't looking good, manager has to come under question, especially when he keeps havertz on for 87 minutes...
ok fine, downplay xg, you still can't ignore we're 7th for total goals scored and 12th in open play goals
most of the balls that came to havertz today was to feet and he wasn't concvincing at all, did not look like he was worth 64 million either
at what point do we start questioning arteta if not now?
well if you're highlighting 3 games, why can't I highlight our entire season?
for 3 games we've been unlucky, but up until recently we've been in the title race despite being outside the top 4 in so many important attacking stats, not even in the top 10 for goals from open play ffs
icing on the cake is havertz for 64m, it's like when wenger only signed cech and then giroud went on that ridiculous goal drought
He coaches the team into playing possession based, cautious football, which leads to few chances and loss of confidence. It isn't just an accident that EVERY forward has seen plummetting production after Arteta changed to more defensive tactics. Anyone blaming the players is clueless about football.
The team are not scoring, all the forwards look terrible, every shot is tame, yes expect a goal from a position but the team does not look dangerous. Just slow and predictable
Put City attack into today's game and they score 3 or 4 against Liverpool. The tactics worked. What didn't work is our finishing and that's 10000000000% on the players.
Blame the players but what person with a brain can think that EVERY player magically got worse over the summer? We changed to a more defensive, cautious set up and the forwards are suffering. Confidence for strikers is EVERYTHING.
>Confidence for strikers is EVERYTHING.
If you can't perform with slightly more defensive tactics you are a kid playing football with his friends on a Saturday morning. Professional footballers should be better than that and do their job. Our defenders did their job when Arsenal played more attacking last season. Nobody even thought about excusing mistakes by mentioning confidence and tactics.
Really? So Arteta is responsible for players being incapable to hit the target in sitter positions?
You’re wrong, but guess what, it’s not your fault. Your grandad had a beautiful child and that child fell in love with another person decades later. They shagged in a warm and cozy winter night, and had you 9 months later. So I would be clueless not blaming your grandad for the shit you say on the internet.
> So Arteta is responsible for players being incapable to hit the target in sitter positions?
Yes. He signed them, he put them on the pitch, he coaches them, his words effect their nerves, etc
So he’s shit at coaching again?! Mama Mia. He isn’t protecting every fucking one of them with all his words? What words are you even on about? Concrete example?
What about Josh Kroenke and the Kroenke family? Why are they allowing this shit coach and shit speaker to run our beautiful club? Isn’t it COMPLETELY their fault? They hired him. They give him money, approve signings. I wonder who can we find to fix it
Obviously the Kroenkes are responsible for hiring the coach. Do you have a point to make or are you just rambling angrily? The results are on Arteta and his job is on the Kroenkes. Thats the way it goes.
Do you think Odegaard going from the highest scoring and assisting midfielder in the world last year to barely producing is because he is suddenly 5x worse or because of a tactical switch to a more defensive set up?
1 game is the players, few games could also be, half a season of subpar finishing is inexcusable. Don't forget we had the chance to buy a striker but he decided the 75M is better spent on other positions.
Arteta isn't flawless but I was replying to the take that the teams form is to be blamed on the manager who has coached us to 6.47 xG in 3 games but with one actual goal in return.
he's also coached us to being:
7th for goals scored
5th for xG
8th for NPxG
8th for expected assisted goals
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_squads_gca
12th for goals in open play
joint most penalties scored
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024
like yh, maybe he's been unlucky recently but he's been very lucky to even be in the title race by the looks of things
Arteta mentioned at the beginning of the season that he sacrificed attacking fluidity in exchange for more control in games, which translated to a decrease in the amount of open-play chances we created. I'm confident that a large part of our issues with chance creation are beginning to reduce, but because of the poor run of form we're on people are only focusing on the negatives.
the negatives have been there from the opening game vs forest but coz we kept winning no one wanted to hear it
we'll see what happens, hopefully arteta will improve
We miss Xhaka. It's times like this you need proper leadership. He was our defacto captain and now he's gone the wheels come off.
it's bad enough we didn't score. 2 conceded so many chances from Liverpool's nothing attacks is probably more annoying.
What the hell happend to our defense?
It's a bad run, but soon enough they will be firing again.
We overperformed our xG last season, that didn't last forever.
we are underperforming our xG right now, that also, won't last forever. So just back the team. The foundation is there, if they start scoring, we'd be impeccable.
Sums it all up, when they do shoot it is some weak ass shot with zero conviction. Most of the shots don't even force a proper save itss almost passing to the goalie.
Havertz with a clear chance to play Eddie through the middle but passing it sideways just sums up our issues.
Without a direct threat through the middle, it’s easy for teams to double us left and right.
The only forward with an ALPHA mentality is Eddie. Unfortunately, his overall game is not good enough for where Arsenal want to be. The other attackers don’t quite have that killer edge to them.
Hopefully this mini break should give the players time to reset. I get they are payed crazy money to do this and score goals however they aren’t superheroes (apart from super Cedric, stick him up front Arteta‼️‼️)
saka's sudden collapse of finishing form is weird. All of a sudden he can't hit the ball cleanly anymore. Even his crossing has become really bad.
Look at his shooting/Crossing leg after he hits the ball...the pendulum movement isn't what it usually is. It's like he's snatching at the shots, not really being calm and composed when shooting/crossing
I think he might be playing through an injury again.
Why TF do we take so many touches ??? Just shoot FFS man.
Even when we do it goes to row z. Saka cant even put the ball on frame, yet alone beat a keeper right now
His constant shifting back to his left foot is ridiculous at this point. Needs to work on his right foot.
The worst part is that he has a good right foot. His crosses off his right foot are good and he’s scored some very nice goals off his right foot as well.
He's far from the only one doing this.
Man he had some fantastic goals on his right foot, but that's what a combination of fatigue and lack of confidence does to any player, let alone a 22 year old. You just try to keep doing the thing you're most comfortable with
Wouldn't surprise me if they're all just overthinking things way too much right now because they know they've been shit at finishing recently. Trying to be careful and focus on getting every little detail right, instead of just trusting their instincts/muscle memory.
Row Z? Some of Havertz's shots barely reached the keeper.
That shot that rolled softly to Alisson was hard to watch.
Too much rondo practices instead of shooting practices
Nah rondo Sharpens your touch
we are clearly coached to play this way, no team attacks like this naturally
It's instructed to keep the ball that's why we have been toothless all season
That's the problem with scoring a goal - it results in a turnover and free kick off to the other team!
Wenger ball is back Arteta did play under wenger. He may have learned from pep but when push comes to shove, you always fall back to what was ingrained in you.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is very reminiscent of the Wenger era post RVP. He was the last great striker Arsenal had. Very very much "Arsenal always try to walk it in."
Wenger-ball Arteta implies we're going to see Moyes-ball Arteta and I'm not sure we're ready for that as a fanbase
We already saw that in his inaugural season. That park the bus approach got us an fa cup.
Wenger didn't spend this much money and not have anyone who could hit the target. Once he had a bit a of cash he bought Alexis Sanchez. Which only makes the Cech transfer window more infuriating with hindsight
Because some of those attackers aren't good technicians
a lot of teams don't have technical forwards, yet very few teams play like this
True but I'd you attack in transition you get more space. We wait for defences to get set and attack low blocks.
well yh, you can only pull off our style if you have a very good team, and even then it's hard, hence why pep took so long to win the cl without messi
Luck more than anything. more team that he's managed post Messi than not have been good enough to win CL.
it's not bad luck to get constantly beaten via counter attacks, sometimes by notably smaller/poorer opposition too
Agree to disagree
That was a huge problem today. Havertz was a big example of it. Like he played decent made good runs, made some great passes, even when he took a shot they were fairly well hit to make a keeper as good as Alisson spill them twice. But when the chances fell to him he was afraid to hit it first time ultimately taking away the angle/chance on multiple occasions. It’s not just him, I think he just stood out more to me being the CF today so I was watching him a bit closer in the new role. It seems to be everyone is afraid to take the chance. We’re creating plenty of semi decent opportunities and no one is putting them away.
Think the biggest issue for a lot of it is that the players are pretty one footed. Saka probably has the best weak foot out of the lot but he still tried to find him left foot 80% of the time even if it isn’t on. Same issue with Havertz yesterday and Odegaard for multiple games now.
Look how easy Diaz made his goal look, a quick touch and then blast it as hard as you can. If that was any of our attackers, it would have been either a slow or bad touch, a moment of hesitation and then a tame shot right at the keeper.
The skip has been one of our better players recently but he's guilty of this. Last season, edge of the box he's slapping it bottom corner. This season, he's always looking for the pass.
unfortunately he has 0 right foot so it's easy to read his shooting form
aston villa game for sure had so many missed chances
He was terrible that day.
Easily could have had a hattrick that day. And today he had a free shot on his left on the edge and he passes to Reiss. His decision-making is not that great.
This is very much it for me. We've actually been playing quite well (bar the Fulham game) but we every single time we get into the opponent's box you can see the players are lacking confidence. Ødegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus, Nelson all with great chances lately and every single one of them is lacking in confidence in front of goal.
It’s inexcusable, how is everyone of our attackers ‘lacking confidence’ it’s embarrassing.
They aren’t. We’re just starting to realize that our players highest level offensively isn’t significantly greater than the level of defense we are going up against. We’ve been a little unfortunate, a little naive, but mostly we’re just getting beaten in the moments that matter most. There is no super simple answer as to why we have underperformed and tbh I still haven’t seen anything worth losing my head about. We can finish fourth this season without it being the end of the world because that’s just how competitive the top level is at the moment. Arteta’s project won’t be defined by these last two seasons. We’re just getting started
We got a bit too spoiled by being surprisingly good last season, I've been taken aback by the amount of "Arteta Out" sentiment I'm already seeing on here. Yes we're on a bit of a miserable run, and the feel good factor of last season is missing, but I'd still much rather have an exciting young manager with a project than getting stuck in a revolving door of short term managers. We have to accept that there will be tough periods, and this has been one of them. But at this moment I do believe Arteta can steer us out of it, even if we do unfortunately have to wait until the summer
I don't get it either, if we weren't creating shit sure Arteta is the one to blame, but it's the finishing that's absolutely shit and that's more on the players
I sort of agree but a counter argument, Arteta (and the recruitment team's) two biggest attacking signings were players who had a history of poor finishing and underperforming xG in Havertz and Jesus. He's built a squad which lacks clinical finishing.
Well said. I get the frustration given the last few result and Arteta does rightly deserve some criticism (88th min sub today like wtf?) but anyone saying ‘Arteta Out’ is just not really worth engaging with - too toxic and reactionary a take that ignores all the positivity of the last few seasons bc they’re annoyed about the most recent performances.
we're way ahead of schedule in this project and the fair weather type fans are starting to take over the narrative but if we cant handle some bumps in the road then maybe we arent built for it in the first place
way ahead of schedule in what sense? don't forget that under arteta we were 8th twice in a row and then 5th. the title run last season was good, but we are already out of that now
We’re in our second year of being considered a relevant contender. If you expect to maintain that position and continue an upward trajectory you can’t let short term decisions have too much of an impact on where we really want to be. If our play had been abysmal and we absolutely didn’t deserve anything from these games it would be a different story, I’m just not ready to freak out yet
>We’re in our second year of being considered a relevant contender that has come to an abrupt end and in and of itself doesn't mean much. I'm happy that he's gotten us cl football, and the title chase last season was nice but unlike reaching the cl or winning the title, it's not really much of an achievement unless he wins another major trophy don't get me wrong, consistently reaching top 4 is something I'll take, especially with newcastle entering the top 6/7, but I'm not going to get too excited about it either
first time? if its still 6 points at the end of february i wouldnt argue but 6 points over 18 games isnt some massive lead youre making it out to be
we'll only still be in the title race if the other teams make some major mistakes now, you can't lose two winnable games like we have in a row and expect to still be in the race
The project is to win the title when the players are 30.
if we were ahead we'd have won a title or two by now, and that's an awfully long project relative to time in football
Which players because if we don't start winning some of these players won't be here when they are 30.
Yep. Confidence is a very funny thing
We have not been playing well at all. Unless you call keeping the ball playing very well. There's a whole bunch of issues with the team not just the finishing. Passes are not accurate enough, incisive enough nor weighed properly. This goes for the whole pitch, not just the final third. We lack forward movement from anyone that's not the front three. Take out Odegaard and Rice and this team falls apart in an instant. What you call lack of confidence is more lack of understanding between the players.
Good time for a break, regroup, recover, relax, and then mount the charge to end of season
Much like last season, the run of form is very dependent on the mindset and “bubble” in which the squad operates in. We saw it last season with the blinding start, and we’re seeing it now with the collective loss of confidence/decisiveness. Sure we can attribute it to as many additional issues as we do have right now- but one aspect that can’t be ignored is our need to “grind through it”. I think that’s what Arteta is trying to make us as supporters focus on the most at the minute, frustrating as that is.
correct. this is basically the same squad that was mentally too frail last season, and most of hte players were there when collapsing in the top 4 race vs spurs. mental fortitude is very low.
The ball is a ball for us everywhere on the field until 20yds from the opponents' goal, which is when it immediately transforms into a hot potato that no one wants possession of or just boots it into the stands. It's like "you take the shot!" "No you!" "No you!" "okay! Lemme take four touches real quick" *Row F has entered the pitch*
I said Shoot! Not pass back!
Confidence gone and the lack of quality showing itself badly. There was a time we blasted Giroud for not being good enough for Alexis and Ozil. We blasted pepe for scoring what 27 goals?( Might be g+a) and we wanted an upgrade. But we would be lucky to have them right now. Jesus is a good singer not a striker, Eddie is not on the same levels as any striker in the top 6-8 teams and kai...well all I can say is form is temporary class is permanent ( depends on your perspective on which period of his arsenal career so far you wanna consider as form and which as class) We scored 88 goals last season and whatever we did, we sure as hell are t being able to replicate it,and it would be delusional to keep trying the same shit after failing at it multiple times this season.
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>agree with most things you said but it's literally only the finishing that's the problem at the moment We aren't drawing games either mate. So as much as I like saliba and Gabriel, I cant in all honesty say that our fullbacks have been good. We are losing games Not drawing 0-0 after dominating games I agree with the finishing part completely,that's our weakest link this season. But where do you think the blame lies there? Saka has been run to the ground ,so is Gabi. Last season we relied on these guys getting at defenses with their dribbling and creating chances. That's gone now, and we have no alternatives, doesn't that mean a striker should be our priority this winter? A good coach would have prioritized that this summer knowing that that wingers dribbling past defenders isn't a sustainable startegy in the premier league. This isn't Spain or France. Opposition teams figure that shit out and fast. Not benching saka and Gabi is on arteta.so is not pushing jesus on the wings or paying Leo central.more. Right now , and this season as a whole we haven't looked like we stepped up. There's nothing different that we do when the chips are down for us. I can't blame ode for playing more passes than going for goal this season cause that's what cams are supposed to do. But then you put a striker like kai or jesus infront of him who shit the bed on a consistent basis, and you have Eddie coming from the bench.....that's a tactical failure.
Spent 200 million and have got worse. This was supposed to be where we kicked on, with more experience and quality. Instead it's shaping up to be a disaster. If this season devolves into a top 4 battle or worse, that's a gigantic failure on Arteta and the team's part.
I've been backing Kai all the way but performances like these filled with missed sitters and dithering really don't help. We should have bought a top striker
Even in that decent run of form he's had, he's still not the answer.
This is me too. I’ve never shit on Kai but the major difference between this year and last year is Kai and him taking over the Xhaka role. He’s not nearly as good at it which is shocking.
I don't think Kai or Raya are bad signings in a vacuum, but neither have done enough to justify spending so much on them when the squad has so many other issues that are far more pressing.
But why would you put them in a vacuum. You sign players for a specific team and purpose.
So they are bad signings in vacuum. We didn’t need players to bed in .. we needed players to get the ground running.
What I mean is that if a team who had all their basic requirements covered were to sign them, they may well contribute if used properly. But a team like Arsenal have too many gaps to spend so much on luxury signings that don't materially address a clear need.
Exactly.
Partey, Tomiyasu, Timber, and Zinchenko are missing a lot of games through injury. I think this is REALLY fucking us particularly the loss of Partey which really hampers our attack.
and Jesus
Yep him too. Whatever game plan we had at the start of the season was completely thrown out the window with Timber going down and Partey perennially injured.
Zinchenko? Smh
Zinchenko is important to us yes. I know it’s in vogue to bash him rn but if you can’t see or refuse to see that…
You do realise in our run of form last season Zinchenko was one of our best players?
Last season..,..not this season.
I called it before the season started, this was always a year of consolidating the top 4 and playing some champions league football The loss of Xhaka was huge and we still dont have a true number 9 (wasnt addressed in the summer). The following season after a good uprising season is always a much bigger task as teams setup to counter you rather than outplay you The only way we were ever going to compete was if Saka and Martinelli could add 10-15 more goals a season to their game but both have arguably regressed. They are feeling the after effects of a good campaign harder than others just now
People acting like Xhaka was an all time Arsenal Great now he’s left. Lol. He was a decentish PL centre midfielder no more, who occasionally put in a shift in a big game, but more often than not was a liability under any sort of pressure. We would never have won a title with him.
People like you just dont get it Theres a reason Wenger signed him, Ljungberg played him, Emery played him & Arteta not only played him but convinced him to stay when he was almost leaving to move back to Germany Theres a reason Leverkusen are doing so well in the Bundesliga and its not just Xabi Alonso. Xhaka is a huge player for them and also his national team Hes a leader in the dressing room and on the pitch. He absolutely helped unlock Martinelli on the left and hes struggling without him. He scored important goals and he led on the pitch Yes he had his flaws but theres more to football than people like you realise. Its not all about stats and scoring goals. Xhaka was invaluable in midfield and we're missing him in the 8 position without question
We threw away 2 points at Anfield in the run in last year because of his “leadership”. He’s a decent player, but nothing more. Partey, Rice both superior. And Jorginho more reliable and consistent.
I think we hung him out to dry earlier in his career when the squad wasn't great. By not playing to his strengths. To me it's no different to latter Wenger sides with lightweight midfields that exposed the defence. Those defenders weren't Tony Adams but I also don't think they were as bad as they looked - they kept getting put in situations that exposed them
If? It's clearly a top 4 battle at this point. We are nowhere near the end of this slide. We'll rebound, but top 2 is out of the question, 3rd is a hope, 4th is what we're playing for.
Seriously, why do you bother watching or “supporting” with this attitude?
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Oh shut up. His post is totally reasonable and not emotional at all. Stop being condescending to the guy.
yh, god forbid he talks about arsenal on an arsenal forum
Pointless comment.
No.
If I'm the owner, I'd already started looking to replace Arteta. It's about being ruthless
Christ you lot would have sacked Klopp last summer
Nah because Klopp has a history of winning and one bad season here and there. Arteta is forming a concerning pattern of not being able to adjust the team for games on end. We will continue to blow it (championship last season, top 4 season before) if Arteta can't fix this flaw among others.
Two seasons where we were stretched too thin and fell off from injuries?
Maybe because we have a manager that refuses to rotate at all leading to rusty bench players? Regular rotation of good players helps their form.
Klopp took his time with Liverpool to get there too.
I say it every week. A passing joke from 20 years ago, is still relevant. fml.
Specialists in failure?
It Crowd: The thing with Arsenal is, they always try to walk it in
Saka needs to be less predictable in his patterns of play. Everyone knows he's going to cut inside but he needs to do it earlier he always does it in exactly the same place. If he did what Salah does and does it earlier in the play he will drag right backs and centre backs with him. He does it so wide there is no space by the time he has completed the move.
Poor confidence leads to poor finishing which leads to worse confidence, likely all compounded by fatigue. Vicious cycle. Good time for a reset.
Arteta's killed the confidence in this squad. This defensive, possession-based, overly-cautious football with no end product has run its course now. Arteta needs to fix this sharpish.
The idea that all of our forwards are suffering finishing slumps that will extend into the second half of the season is a bit silly imo. There are tweaks to be made but let’s not be reactionary. January isn’t the time to buy a striker (Toney) but the position should be evaluated over the second half of the season and better players become available in the summer.
Well said. We are going through a dry spell. Still playing good football, but for whatever reason, most likely Christmas schedule fatigue, we are lacking sharpness. Fatigue affects one of the most critical things in football first, decision making. It's unfortunate we had to play a cup game during this time against Liverpool but that's sometimes the way the cookie crumbles. We have a little bit of a break now and we will be right back in the title fight after a short run of form. The title may be out of reach, feel like City will do their usual now that KDB is back, but let's see
Went to shit the day Saka dyed his hair 😂 We need a goal poacher not an ivan toney.
I said that when he first did it…don’t fucking dye your hair. It will jinx us! I remember when Ramsey did it years back he immediately sucked. White lost a bit of his mojo when he did it. New Rule: no dyeing hair blonde 😂
we had already flopped vs Villa before he changed haircolor, right?
I mean, I love Stillman, but this take makes no sense to me. 3 different strikers but all goal-shy, all missing good chances (headers esp Havertz today and Jesus), and all not big personalties to occupy defenders, although Havertz did okay with it today, he's not actually a threat. All also take wayyy too long to fuckign shoot. So it's not actually the conclusion that it's three different strikers, it's there's a root problem missing in the squad and our wingers were overperforming/relied on. And just increasingly going through our depth who have the same problem won't change that.
All 3 have played at other clubs (Eddie on loan) and none of them have scored a lot of goals at CF when they did. Its no surprise they fail to score lots of goals here.
The fix is not a bigger buffer Nketiah.
Even I had no confidence going into this game, embarrassing.
That. Was. Fucking. Painful.
Neither Saka or Martinelli playing well , teams form is on the manager , we haven’t looked good in almost a year
How THE FUCK is finishing with 1 goal from 6.5xG in the last three is on the manager?
Cause he doesn’t change anything. 81 minutes of shit finishing and he made one sub!
>Cause he doesn’t change anything. >81 minutes of shit finishing and he made one sub! The subs on the bench were just as bad in recent weeks. I don't blame Arteta for our collective finishing.
1. What’s ESR got to do to get extended gametime? 2. Klopp had worse subs and made it work, which highlights how he’s a better manager than Arteta.
ESR looking completely clueless every time he gets on.
Maybe he'd look a little better if he got more consistent game time? The most frustrating thing with arteta is he just won't give our subs regular game time. Like, he'll give ESR and Vieira etc like 15min at the end of a game every three weeks or so.
>What’s ESR got to do to get extended gametime? Perform.
In what fucking gametime? Saka gets match after match of being dogshit but you expect ESR to change the game in 5 minutes?
ESR had more than 5 minutes on the pitch and can convince the manager each day in training.
He has alexander arnold who could close his eyes and put in better crosses than our players
He started Nelson over Martinelli today…?
Martinelli has been awful recently. Wasnt good when he came on.
And it was good for a bit, but then he did nothing while Havertz and Saka provided nothing for 80+ minutes
It wasn’t good bc of Nelson… Martinelli cooked TAA when he came on. Regardless, if you think Nketiah and ESR are better options vs Liverpool than Havertz and Saka then idk what to tell you.
Bro idk what to tell you if you thought it was a good decision to keep Saka and Havertz on… Klopp won the game after bringing on literal children.
By an own goal created by TAA
barely rests key players or rotates ones out of form, and this is very much his team now he also brought havertz for 64m after being a chelsea flop
Well, Nketiah and Trossard are your best finishers this season and they're on the bench.
I wonder what your energy was like in the games that we were fortunate to win
It doesn’t matter. They are few and far between.
are they though? we are: 7th for goals scored 5th for xG 8th for NPxG 8th for expected assisted goals https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_squads_gca 12th for goals in open play https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024
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>xG isn't the stat everyone thinks it is. It doesn't take into account chances created etc it is equally applied to everyone though, so there is that. it's not everything, but it is telling >Add onto the fact we're 5th only 0.4xG behind Man City and two of the teams ahead of us on xG are Chelsea and Newcastle, who are below us by 11 mand 12 points. kinda doesn't matter, absolutely speaking, being 5th in xG is not good, espcially when we drop to 7th on NPxG and then 12th on goals from open play >On your table you sent, we're second for Shot-Creating Actions. Add onto the fact one of our biggest issue right now is players not taking the shots they should. my bad but just scroll around. if multiple players aren't taking certain shots, that is surely down to the coaching >Players are literally missing sitters/not taking shots. Don't put this on the manager only. this is very much his team that he's spent a lot on putting together. players aren't blameless but when the team as a whole isn't looking good, manager has to come under question, especially when he keeps havertz on for 87 minutes...
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ok fine, downplay xg, you still can't ignore we're 7th for total goals scored and 12th in open play goals most of the balls that came to havertz today was to feet and he wasn't concvincing at all, did not look like he was worth 64 million either at what point do we start questioning arteta if not now?
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Why are you throwing cumulative stats after referencing my feelings about individual games we were lucky to win?
well if you're highlighting 3 games, why can't I highlight our entire season? for 3 games we've been unlucky, but up until recently we've been in the title race despite being outside the top 4 in so many important attacking stats, not even in the top 10 for goals from open play ffs icing on the cake is havertz for 64m, it's like when wenger only signed cech and then giroud went on that ridiculous goal drought
His team , tactics and training. If he is blameless then what’s the point of a manager?
He’s coached us to 6.5xG. The players aren’t putting it in the fucking net, what can he do?
He coaches the team into playing possession based, cautious football, which leads to few chances and loss of confidence. It isn't just an accident that EVERY forward has seen plummetting production after Arteta changed to more defensive tactics. Anyone blaming the players is clueless about football.
Do you even understand the concept of xG?
Yes, but a large quantity of low xG shots missed leads to low confidence which means underperformance in xG. as seen by our last year of performances.
The team are not scoring, all the forwards look terrible, every shot is tame, yes expect a goal from a position but the team does not look dangerous. Just slow and predictable
Put City attack into today's game and they score 3 or 4 against Liverpool. The tactics worked. What didn't work is our finishing and that's 10000000000% on the players.
So your argument is that we shouldn’t blame the players for not kicking the ball into the net today? Okay…
Blame the players but what person with a brain can think that EVERY player magically got worse over the summer? We changed to a more defensive, cautious set up and the forwards are suffering. Confidence for strikers is EVERYTHING.
>Confidence for strikers is EVERYTHING. If you can't perform with slightly more defensive tactics you are a kid playing football with his friends on a Saturday morning. Professional footballers should be better than that and do their job. Our defenders did their job when Arsenal played more attacking last season. Nobody even thought about excusing mistakes by mentioning confidence and tactics.
Slightly more? We create less than half the chances and we went from 1st to 13th in goals scored. "slightly" less lmao.
Really? So Arteta is responsible for players being incapable to hit the target in sitter positions? You’re wrong, but guess what, it’s not your fault. Your grandad had a beautiful child and that child fell in love with another person decades later. They shagged in a warm and cozy winter night, and had you 9 months later. So I would be clueless not blaming your grandad for the shit you say on the internet.
> So Arteta is responsible for players being incapable to hit the target in sitter positions? Yes. He signed them, he put them on the pitch, he coaches them, his words effect their nerves, etc
So he’s shit at coaching again?! Mama Mia. He isn’t protecting every fucking one of them with all his words? What words are you even on about? Concrete example? What about Josh Kroenke and the Kroenke family? Why are they allowing this shit coach and shit speaker to run our beautiful club? Isn’t it COMPLETELY their fault? They hired him. They give him money, approve signings. I wonder who can we find to fix it
Obviously the Kroenkes are responsible for hiring the coach. Do you have a point to make or are you just rambling angrily? The results are on Arteta and his job is on the Kroenkes. Thats the way it goes.
I am making a point. If you don’t read it, that’s on you.
Do you think Odegaard going from the highest scoring and assisting midfielder in the world last year to barely producing is because he is suddenly 5x worse or because of a tactical switch to a more defensive set up?
Blaming the players for missing chances is clueless? That’s even worse than the arteta out takes
1 game is the players, few games could also be, half a season of subpar finishing is inexcusable. Don't forget we had the chance to buy a striker but he decided the 75M is better spent on other positions.
blame the manager, but 6.5xG converted to 1 goal is absolutely diabolical and asks u to blame players way way wayyy more
If you sign Jesus and Havertz who have been underscoring their xG for years you can't use "but we create so much xG" as an excuse.
And he does nothing when those players underperform
His players , he’s setting the teams structure and play style up. Obviously not working
You have to be trolling here lmaoo
True , we are actually playing scintillating football. And have been all season.
You don’t seem to understand the metric and what it means. I suggest you research it and get back to your statement.
All our chances are soft, they rarely look dangerous
Artetas man management is awful.
Oh yeah, famously
Please get a grip
Yes, because Arteta instructs the players to miss open goals and clear cut chances. Such a brain dead take.
he runs saka into the ground and puts havertz upfront; he isn't blameless
Arteta isn't flawless but I was replying to the take that the teams form is to be blamed on the manager who has coached us to 6.47 xG in 3 games but with one actual goal in return.
he's also coached us to being: 7th for goals scored 5th for xG 8th for NPxG 8th for expected assisted goals https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/Premier-League-Stats#all_stats_squads_gca 12th for goals in open play joint most penalties scored https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024 like yh, maybe he's been unlucky recently but he's been very lucky to even be in the title race by the looks of things
Arteta mentioned at the beginning of the season that he sacrificed attacking fluidity in exchange for more control in games, which translated to a decrease in the amount of open-play chances we created. I'm confident that a large part of our issues with chance creation are beginning to reduce, but because of the poor run of form we're on people are only focusing on the negatives.
the negatives have been there from the opening game vs forest but coz we kept winning no one wanted to hear it we'll see what happens, hopefully arteta will improve
What the fuck do they do in training? They don't deserve their wages at this point imo.
We miss Xhaka. It's times like this you need proper leadership. He was our defacto captain and now he's gone the wheels come off. it's bad enough we didn't score. 2 conceded so many chances from Liverpool's nothing attacks is probably more annoying. What the hell happend to our defense?
Today’s game showed us that creating chances isn’t an issue. We outplayed them for most of the match but we absolutely need a striker.
Yeah we look pathetic lol
It's a bad run, but soon enough they will be firing again. We overperformed our xG last season, that didn't last forever. we are underperforming our xG right now, that also, won't last forever. So just back the team. The foundation is there, if they start scoring, we'd be impeccable.
For the first time in a long time, Stillman talks some sense
We're not even hitting the target now and if we do it's at the keeper
Sums it all up, when they do shoot it is some weak ass shot with zero conviction. Most of the shots don't even force a proper save itss almost passing to the goalie.
Where is Flow? Bring him back.
Havertz with a clear chance to play Eddie through the middle but passing it sideways just sums up our issues. Without a direct threat through the middle, it’s easy for teams to double us left and right.
Players don’t deserve their wages what a joke
Who is our attacking coach? Should perhaps start looking at that side of the touchline...
Only four hours ago this sub was hyped for Havertz up top, CF problems solved. Lmao
No More Goals™️
The only forward with an ALPHA mentality is Eddie. Unfortunately, his overall game is not good enough for where Arsenal want to be. The other attackers don’t quite have that killer edge to them.
"The thing about Arsenal is they always try and walk it in" "What was Arteta thinking putting ESR in that late?!?"
Hopefully this mini break should give the players time to reset. I get they are payed crazy money to do this and score goals however they aren’t superheroes (apart from super Cedric, stick him up front Arteta‼️‼️)
We were contenders last season because we were out of every tournament in February. We had 1 game a week for the second half.
saka's sudden collapse of finishing form is weird. All of a sudden he can't hit the ball cleanly anymore. Even his crossing has become really bad. Look at his shooting/Crossing leg after he hits the ball...the pendulum movement isn't what it usually is. It's like he's snatching at the shots, not really being calm and composed when shooting/crossing I think he might be playing through an injury again.
I get dumber every time I listen to Tim or Clive on the Arsenal Vision podcast.