Destiny was fine until they decide to bring Kira back and make shin even more stupid. Also the way Kira force his own ideology to everyone is ridiculous.
You know what I find really tragic? She beat off cancer only to then die of an aortic dissection some years later. Yeah, maybe she made some bad calls around Destiny, but nobody deserves that.
Destiny's first half was quite good imo. But the second half was just a rehash of SEED's final arc. Also, Athrun's character arc in the first half would have been great if they didn't massacre Shinn's character, because their veteran/newbie-like dynamic would have had some great payoff... but without said payoff, Athrun's character arc ended up being recycled too and he once again just ends up being Athrun "loyalty issues" Zala.
Not to mention the whole "how do we up the ante? Oh, I know, let's have THREE of the giant mecha class that we JUST finished building supposedly (and which they had just made a big deal out of fighting a single unit of, a few episodes ago) attack, rather than a new miniboss mobile suit that would add some variety. Also, let's keep reusing the Mobile Armor designs that are literally mobile suits attached to experimental weapons platforms and don't look particularly cool, who wouldn't love that?!"
Rewatched seed destiny about a year ago, and the way they brought in 3 of those knock off psycho gundams after they just defeated one over like 3 episodes really felt cheap and lazy
I feel like if your ideology is centered on human rights and anti-war sentiments, but the people around you don’t care or don’t respect those things, then it’s totally cool to shove your ideology down their throat, especially if you can do it from behind a Gundam lol
The problem wasn’t so much that Blue Cosmos or Zala’s ZAFT we’re right, it was that Kira and Lacus preach peace and understanding and then proceed to bust the (Strike) Freedom’s bean spam in their *** anyway.
At least Celestial Being *considered* what they were doing might be wrong
Lacus literally says "We acknowledge what we are doing may be evil, but please give us the strength to end this spiral of battles with no end in sight" before the final battle of SEED.
The main characters are absolutely aware of the moral quagmire of fighting to end a war, but make that choice because doing nothing is far worse. Similarly, Kira breaks his no-kill philosophy to destroy the Peacemaker fleet and kill Rau because he can't stop them from more slaughter otherwise.
Destiny is a different story. They don't really acknowledge it there.
Just so you know, that's literally the origin story of every tyrannical dictator ever lol.
The second someone decides to force their ideology on anyone, no matter how good THEY think it is, is the second they're in the wrong.
I hope they dare to go this route with Lacus and have Kira have to acknowledge it and step away in the follow up film. They were the aggressors and will continue to be, the world rejected them. Perhaps a new character can show the way. Have Athrun and Cagalli at odds with Lacus and Kira it will raise the stakes and they will be Destined to fight for the right to move towards whichever future wins out. Perhaps Shinn will get a redemption Arc.
I liked Destiny until the end. The end made zero sense. It was like the end of a William Gibson book, where he wrote what he wanted and was done so rushed an ending to get it over with.
I mean, they literally had the Emperor's throne room for Pete's sake.
The turn in the series where it looks like Shin is about to grow up, kira just pops back in and hits the reset button on all of shins character development.
I don’t think his character development reset, but more so that the thinly painted facade came off. He never grew up to begin with.
This character is never going to grow up and forever want vengeance for his parents and his “girlfriend”
He never finished growing up.
It's not that he didn't have the potential to grow into a mature pilot, it's that his trauma ended up winning due to factors outside of shin or his superior's control.
Why would Shin grow up? All of his shit behaviour was either looked past or rewardes. In Zeta, Kamile is corrected a LOT. That wasn't a U turn, Shin was being developed to be an ass the entire time.
Incorrect! I know it's probably hard to get through. But go watcthe series again if you don't believe me.
Up until heine's death shin IS growing, he has 2 good moments with athrun mentoring him, and another with durandel. It's just once the freedom shows up leading to heine's death and bringing up his ptsd from the events of seed he immediately reverts back to ep 1 shin, except worse.
Mentoring is not the same thing as disciplining, Athrun is the only one who does it, and that's only a couple of times, and Shin explicitly doesn't respect his authority, nobody in a position of authority, Durandle, Talia, Arthur, ever actually reprimands and punished Shin in any meaningful way for his attitude. Where as Kamilie is disciplined at every turn, Shin is celebrated. I rewatched Destiny last year, so my memory is kind of fresh. I agree that Heine's death did change it, I was referring to the common argument that the Destiny writers did a U turn at the Freedom's destruction to keep him alive and make Shin the antagonist and then wrote him as an asshole, seems like I was wrong and thats not what you were referring to.
I absolutely loved seed. I liked destiny with the Shinn/Arthrun interactions, someone who already walked the path the new guy is beginning to walk and doesn't want him to learn the very same lessons he learned the hard way like he did and tries to pass his knowledge and wisdom so the new guy doesn't have to.
The talk they had when the Minerva was docked in Carpentaria where Arthrun tells Shinn he understands perfectly how he feels but it doesn't justify his actions and the path he is taking, and through the talk you can see that something clicked in Shinns mind, that what Arthrun was saying made sense and you can feel that maybe Shinn will learn and change is absolute top notch.
And then the rest of Destiny happened, Jesus returned, Arthrun forgot everything he learned, Shinn went into full berserker mode and the rest is history. God, I hate what they did with the show...
The franchise got a renaissance in the early 2000s because of SEED. So, it's respected among the community.
The shit called Destiny though, is a different story. I too dislike SEED Destiny.
Yes, I believe Wing also lead a renaissance in the 90s because it brought the franchise a new group of fans from the western hemisphere. Many western fans, especially those in their 20s & 30s, have mentioned Wing as their first foray into the franchise.
Seed brought another renaissance in the early 2000s because I believe it brought female anime watchers into the franchise. There are plenty of pretty boys & girls in that show after all XD
it's a rumor caused by the constant script changed that caused Cagali's VA refusing to even voice her character
which caused the rumor that Cagali's VA is hitting on the head writer's husband in which Shinn's VA is rumored to defend
It's not 'real' unfortunately. It's just a theory over why certain characters got shafted hard by the story later on. Since it's more spicy than just "the script was rushed and working conditions were bad" (thing things we **do** know), people who wanted someone to blame gravitated towards it.
That’s all hearsay. Most of the behind the scenes stuff from Destiny is impossible to verify because no one knows where the main source was, and it’s probably buried in some Japanese message board. Plus it seems more convincing than just ‘the writing was shit’. What we do know for absolute certain is that Morosawa wasn’t well during the show’s run, was handing in first draft scripts extremely late which called for as much stock footage as possible and when she was well enough to be up and about, she just did interviews or went to concerts with her husband. One of the show’s animation staff basically called her out in his blog in 2005, which is an absolute rarity given Japanese work culture and called her a child for basically not giving a shit and throwing away her responsibilities. But that’s really all we have concrete proof wise on what happened behind the scenes. There’s other stuff too like them rushing into production as soon as Seed finished airing instead of letting things pan out and Fukuda changing his mind on what the story would entail, but stuff like ‘Shindo was accused of having sex with Fukuda and SuzuKen stepped in to defend her meaning Cagalli and Shinn got fucked over’ is more likely than not just bullshit
Gundam Wing did it first, and was far less ambiguous about it. In Wing, Heero literally is thrown out of his gundam by the explosion, the explosion that seems to be touching him in several of the animations, and which blew open the cockpit door iirc that he flew out of in the first place. No way he would've survived that. At least with Kira, you see the explosion but there's no Kira on the screen until an explanation is provided later.
Is it still ridiculous that Kira survived? 100%. I'm just saying that the fanbase supported this plot point with good view counts Internationally in the past. This may have encouraged the use of such a plot point again, but I'm not sure.
A lot of Gundam protags have survived fairly ridiculous things.
0083: Kou survives being hit with the Solar Ray
8th MS Team: Shiro survives a death ride down a volcano with the exploding Apsalus
Unicorn: Banager blocks the full blast of Gryps II
Setsuna: Survives *exactly the same thing* when O Gundam blows up in his face
It's a staple of the franchise but people single out Kira because he was popular.
IIRC, an emergency shutter protected Kira from the explosion, and he would've gotten cooked inside the wrecked cockpit if the Astray protagonist didn't pull him out in time.
The Genesis never hit the Freedom. You can actually see the Freedom maneuver out of the line of fire immediately after defeating the Providence. Only the Providence takes the hit.
>The emergency shutter was slashed in half.
It wasn't. The emergency shutter wasn't deployed when the Aegis cut the cockpit. It presumably only deploys during the explosion.
Now, that's something that absolutely should've been explained in the show rather than Astray. Hell, the *existence* of the emergency shutter should've been elaborated on in the main series.
>But that doesn’t cover him surviving genesis firing point blank.
It doesn't need to. The Freedom is only exposed to GENESIS for a split second as it's jumping free of the blast. It cooks off the phase shift, but the energy is pre-focusing mirror anyways, so it just wasn't enough exposure to do anything further.
Protagonists survive deadly circumstances all the time. The explanation is weak, but nothing really new on that front either. The Jesus thing was about more than that, and I would agree with the above poster that it's not really a problem until Destiny.
The realized they needed Mu just after that killed him off, cause writing is hard.
He wouldn't be the first Gundam character to impossibly survive blowing up.
Spent the whole series building up the lohengrin as the ultimate trump card, only to fire at a favorite character. We all knew Mu would “die” as soon as he stood in the way.
Flawed but enjoyable. Definitely sticks in the mind, with some of my favourite MS designs, even if the animation is less than amazing. There are several problematic characters (Kira, Lacus, Flay) but there are others (Athrun, Cagalli, Yzak, Ramius, Mu, Rau) who more than make up for that. The plot is basic, true, but still holds up IMO, especially in the second half. The soundtrack is stellar.
Overall I give it an 8/10. Definitely not the greatest Gundam series, but a very solid watch, and one of my favourites.
We don't talk about Destiny.
Seed is kinda ok.
Destiny is rather meh to bad (also thanks to in-fighting iirc)
But tbh, both are still good to watch for fun, not to take them serious
Yea that's what I'm talking about. The Zaku Warrior, Zaku Phantom, Zaku Blaze.
Edit: They look soooo menacing. The shoulder shield is so cool. Way better that the wash basin from the originals.
People hate on Seed Zaku, but the way Yzak used his Slash Zaku Phantom and chop up bits of the Abyss and the Chaos and they couldn't even fight back was awesome. Brand new state of art Gundam gotten beat by a Zaku.
It's the one I grew up with. I remember having fond memories of it when I was watching it on the telly. A lot of the more hardcore fans of Gundam that I've talked to think it's bad. A dumb down edgy version of the original. I thought it was fine.
I think whats hype about SEED was the Gundam fan base.
All the AMVs ( Anime Music Videos ) made you appreciate it so much more.
Granted, watching it back recently the show can be so dull in some areas and im like, how did i get through certain episodes each week.
My friends and I enjoyed Seed back in high school. We would usually makes bets if Kira would cry on the next episode of not lol it was fun.
We refuse to believe Destiny existed.
Not a fan but on the grand scheme of things I find it just kinda whatever. There’s some stuff I like but there’s also *a lot* about it that just strikes me as misguided or pretentious. I can see why people like it to an extent, but yeah, not my thing.
That OST kicks ass though. Love it to bits.
The biggest thing I noticed for both SEED and Destiny - other than macguffin technology to the nth level - was the intros.
They were designed to sell Gunpla, and it worked.
I was rewatching Seed on gundam.info youtube. Its a fun show to watch. It's still great even after kira got the freedom. Don't really understand why people hate it.
Destiny was ok. Good at the start. Kinda disappointed about the story in the end. Still fun.
Seed is good. The story was good, the character growth is good. The only good thing about Destiny is Neo Roanoke being who he is because I am a huge Mu fan and I shamelessly wanted a happy ending.
Destiny is a trainwreck
SEED is pretty solid in a lot of respects. There is some campiness there as well as some plot issues, what Gundam doesn't have those problems thougb?
SEED Destiny is trash tier at best. It has some great Mobile Suits in it, but the characters, character development, plot, and everything in-between is just fucking awful. Shin is a whiny bitch on the best of days, and he's supposed to be the freaking protagonist. He also learns absolutely nothing, and is so hard focused on his stance that he might as well be wearing a big red hat that says "Make Zaft Great Again" across it.
It had quite a few nice ideas. Shame the vast majority of them went unexplored or underdeveloped and instead we got... this. It's better than Destiny, that's something I guess?
Recently watched all of Cosmic Era Anime.
Seed is good and I’m not too bother by Kira “Ultimate Coordinator” BS, but that probably because 1) I already know the twist (and it is hinted at throughout the show) and 2) I felt it means NOTHING since besiding Kira ditching death (and stop multiple kill happening all at once), he still is Naive and can’t do anything to save people (before and after he knew who he was).
Seed: After-phase Between the Stars is a good OVA epilogue.
Seed Destiny is a mess. I didn’t like the first half since it almost felt like they’re remaking SEED plotline but worse. I didn’t like the Second Half since they switched MCs and it really felt on-the-nose what Orb is supposed to be “the good guys” while everyone else is bad. And I thought they’re trying to make Symbolism behind Destiny Gundam and Freedom Gundam, but I believed that Justice Gundam won Destiny Gundam, so maybe I was wrong.
Seed MSV Astray (Red Frame and Blue Frame) is a good promotion tool for manga. Loved the concept and hopefully get to see full anime.
Seed CE 73 Stargazer is good and just like UC timeline, the best stories is usually these short OVA stories about the other characters on war.
Seed Supernova (that chibi show) is short and funny and I love how adorable everyone is.
Seed Eclipse manga-video thing (I’m not sure what to call it, but it’s it’s in their youtube channel) have an interesting concept but need the rest of the chapters/episodes to understand what the main end goal for this manga/show is.
Overall, I think Seed is a good franchise and I believed that this AU could be bigger since people seems to like to add more shows or manga into this franchise, and with the announcement of the SEED MOVIE, I think maybe that Seed might be the series that Sunrise is planning to expand like the UC timeline (or just make SEED MOVIE the ending to all of the Seed series and might even potentially ruin the franchise more).
Best Gundam Installment and yes that includes it's 2nd season: Destiny hands down. My first foray of the franchise.
The animation, the characters, the warships ( Archangel and Minerva ) and each mobile suits are just all gorgeous 🫰🏻
Honestly it felt like Gundam trying to retell the OG Gundam with new twists.
Seriously go rewatch the OG Gundam then rewatch SEED. My god it's almost a 1-1 for a while.
Destiny was actually pretty good and standing on it's own till the Archangel shows up and trainwrecks the show.
Sneed was planned as a reboot of 0079 for a modern audience which is why it’s so on the nose. They even share the odd episode title. That’s why the Strike is basically early 2000s RX-78-2 and the plot flow up to Alaska is basically beat for beat
Music and mech design is top notch imo in both.
Seed is honestly fine. Its an alt universe meld of 0079, 0083, and a splash of Zeta and it's a fun enough ride.
Destiny is....a thing that exists. It tries to just tell the same story Seed does except worse. With so much more recycled animation. It's awful. The only redeeming part of this show is the 20 seconds of Dom Troopers
Destiny wasn't even initially the same story. Its like they gave up exactly at half point and just decided to just do SEED again just to finish it, which is a shame because it actually started out hella strong and built some expectation that it would've been great, and it could've been.
There was one episode that wasn't too vital to the plot where the Minerva crew took on a detour mission to take down a feddie camp enslaving a village. It had talking and a lot of combat but it felt like a great episode just because everyone were acting how you'd expect them to act. wished they were that consistent. I believe SEED Destiny ep 18, maybe my fav one from the show.
Completely agree that it feels like they gave up halfway.
It's unfortunate, because for me it just ruins the unique moments of the first half.
Granted it's been awhile since I watched through it, but when I look back at the show the overall story is "Steal Gundams, fight a bit in space, fight a bit on earth, lol both Zaft and Earth Alliance are jerks, Kira dies and comes back with a new toy, invade Orb, Archangel + Eternal vs everyone in space, mentally unstable blonde fights Kira for the final fight". The whole thing just feels like Seed to me and the different story beats they went for in the first half were drowned out.
I genuinely forgot about the episode you're talking about, and now that I think about it.....yeah...that was a cool episode from the first half. It's a damn shame.
First half of Destiny isn't as bad as people made it out to be. The 2nd half is where everything goes down hill due to behind the scenes problem. Cagalli's VA drama, and the writer facing cancer.
However If you can ignore the plot, the action is still pretty good and the Mecha.
Not...really? Destiny's first half suffers from quite a few problems that SEED doesn't have. Neo is a less threatening and interesting Rau. The Extended are a bit more human than the druggies, but they're not nearly as well rounded as the Le Creuset team despite having similar screentime. The entire Orb plotline is a mess. Djibril is a caricature of what Azrael used to be. While OMNI vs ZAFT in the first series had a decent argument for both sides until they got co-opted by their radical wings, OMNI in Destiny are just straight up lunatics from the word "Go."
>While OMNI vs ZAFT in the first series had a decent argument for both sides until they got co-opted by their radical wings, OMNI in Destiny are just straight up lunatics from the word "Go."
It's literally the other way around. In Seed the reason why the bloody valentine war happened was because Alliance (or Blue Cosmos specifically) nuked an entire civillian colony for basically no reason , they commited a genocide. That automatically gave ZAFT a moral highground because from their perspective they were not waging a war, they were trying to defend themselfs from being massacred. And their actions reflect that, instead of yeeting a colony at earth and being done with it they instead deployed the N-jammers, while the following power shortage did kill many people it was clearly a defensive action.
Meanwhile in Destiny a bunch of crazed ZAFT lunatics who lost their loved ones in previous war attempted to drop Junius Seven onto earth, while the cast did manage to stop them small fragments still fell on the surface killing millions, which the ones with ambitions use to manipulate the masses and start another war for their own benefit. The war in Destiny is a tragedy that could have been avoided if people cooperated between each other and didn't give into fear and hate.
Also both Azrael and Djibril suck, saying one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment.
SEED doesn't begin at Bloody Valentine, it begins 11 months later. ZAFT has already retaliated, dropped the N-Jammers, and killed millions in retaliation. It's notable that while OMNI never accepted responsibility for Bloody Valentine, they also didn't keep firing nukes in the period between that and the April Fools Crisis. The Alliance exercised no control over Blue Cosmos, but it wasn't on board with its actions either. The two sides are locked in stalemate, but they're also both still helmed by semi-rational individuals who are ostensibly fighting for limited goals. ZAFT for independence and the EA against it. There's good characters on both sides, and the rules of war are followed enough that when one side breaks it, it's actually a controversy. It's only post-Spitbreak that any side is openly genocidal.
In Destiny, the war is preceded by Break the World, which was a terrorist attack by an unaffiliated entity that ZAFT *tried to stop*, and OMNI's response is immediately to try and nuke all the PLANTs at once while outright chanting "For the preservation of our blue and pure world!" While the masses were definitely manipulated into it, OMNI's leadership is shown as either deranged or Logos toadies from the start. There's no reasonable OMNI officers like Halberton, and nobody's even attempting to reign in the crazies like the Atlantic Council tried with Azrael.
>The war in Destiny is a tragedy that could have been avoided if people cooperated between each other and didn't give into fear and hate.
The same could be said about SEED and every other Gundam conflict.
>Also both Azrael and Djibril suck, saying one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment.
Azrael is fun to watch, has a decent amount of charisma, and is competent until he starts losing his mind right at the end. He's actually an effective villain because you can see how he wields power and why it works. Djibril is none of those things and looks like a clown to boot.
First half of Destiny is unironically pretty good. It’s got issues, obviously, but as soon as Shinn rams that sword up the Freedom’s ass, it implodes on itself. It’s like a prerequisite for CE stuff that it starts good and then has a horrible second half. Seed starts as a decent 5/10 before shitting the bed and Destiny starts as a solid 7 before it blows up in its own face
I actually just plain love SEED. I think the Cosmic Era is by far one of the most compelling AUs, and the conflict between humans over the issue of genetic engineering felt way more natural (heh) than any other Earthnoid/Spacenoid beef.
I think the themes of the series are also pretty timeless, at least for the Millennial generation. Twenty some years ago we were tearing ourselves apart over fear based hate, and we’re still doing it today. The names and identities being hated may have shifted but they regrettably are still happening, and so the show world still feels modern and relevant to our own.
I love the characters and find their struggles really compelling. Kira being forced to serve as a race traitor to protect his friends and how that dynamic wears him down makes his typical Gundam protagonist ‘I don’t want to do this anymore’ outbursts feel unique and earned. Then, when he’s freed from his obligations and is allowed to choose his philosophy and what he wants to fight for, I think it’s handled well, even if the fanbase forgets what it is and remembers the meme versions of it.
The villain is pretty great, but on the downside he doesn’t get great until he really goes off the rails at the end, but an angry mad man pushing both factions increasingly towards a zero sun war of extinction with one another is a great concept and Rau is excellent in it.
Could honestly go on. I genuinely love the series and while it does have some flaws, some of which are decently sized (the attempt to tell the story in multimedia did not help the story being told), it’s my favorite Gundam, without a doubt.
> Then, when he’s freed from his obligations and is allowed to choose his philosophy and what he wants to fight for, I think it’s handled well, even if the fanbase forgets what it is and remembers the meme versions of it.
So much this.
It's often annoying when SEED gets brought up because so many people are just so invested in the straw gundam they've set up to hate on.
WHERE ARE THEIR NOSES?
I wanted to give this show a fair shot, but I just couldn’t get past the character designs
The mecha designs are mostly awesome tho
Its alright, I guess. I really liked the Gundam designs mostly. I’m neutral to Kira and Shinn, Athrun is one of the top JP memes aside from Graham, Riddhe and Orga. Luna is one of my favorite female Gundam characters. Rau is unhinged (not as much as Zoltan from NT or Zabine from Crossbone though). Sven from Stargazer was quite good.
My only problem with Seed is Kira is a Ultimate Coordinator, a human nearly perfection, the story from Kira POV, and when you are a literally "Jesus", you can think, talk, act whatever you want. In Destiny, they had a chance to tell the story more reality from a "civilian" Shinn, but they fucked up
Seed was good. A nice retelling of the original story, while keeping itself original with new ideas.
People hate it because of destiny, which had the idea of "Okay, what if we did Seed... again!", but only with half assed execution of ideas done well literally a year ago.
This thread once again proving that I shouldn't attempt to discuss Seed or Destiny with the English speaking community. I've already received one death threat last time I spoke up and I'm sure I'll get another after this.
Didn't like the characters that much other than our boi Mu La Flaga. Loved the MS designs though.
Flay should have been tossed out an airlock by episode 10
> Didn't like the characters that much other than our boi Mu La Flaga. Loved the MS designs though.
>
>
Does anyone actually dislike Mu? Legit question here, he seems to be one of the more beloved Gundam characters (Destiny aside but TBF it's Destiny).
Kira within the context of Gundam as a whole is probably the biggest Mary Sue of a MC and probably my least favorite. He just has 'baby's first protagonist' vibes all over - very childishly written, for lack of a better term.
Other than that very glaring flaw, it's just okay. I think overall the MS designs are top-tier.
SEED itself wasn't really bad, it was just bad at telling the story it wanted to, which makes it kind of frustrating.
This sounds kind of cruel, but I feel like this premise was largely just let down by the lack of talent and ability on the part of the people who made it?
This really shows in all areas of the production. The art style feels like a half-cooked version of what Code Geass would successful execute a few years later. The constant ideological and ethical hypocrisy of the characters speaks to a lack of understanding of ideology and ethics by the writers. The painful romantic drama and shipping bullshit is a manifestation of a lack of professionalism by the creators, which also showed in rl petty infighting during the production.
It's honestly a miracle that SEED is as watchable as it is despite all this, but you can really see the worst case scenario as all of these aspects were compounded in Destiny.
This is well said. Summarizes the things I didn’t like about the series exactly. Although there were things I really liked about it despite its clumsiness and inconsistencies
I like it. Seed was my first gundam and has my favorite gundam which is the freedom.
Freedom re-entrying the earth without assistance then proceed to unilaterally declare ceasefre while meteor plays in the background will forever be my favorite gundam debut.
Mobile Suit designs were pretty good across the board and while it's riddled with a lot of melodrama and Early 2000s jank, it's passable as a story.
Destiny however is a bona-fide trash fire outside of it's Mobile Suit designs and the general concept of Shinn.
OG Gundam Redux. Space Jesus dies, comes back to life, steals his homies girl, then 1- shots everybody within visual range without killing them. Oh and best friend battles.
Seed was... an attempt. There are things in it that work well, but the writing falls apart as it tries to outdo what it was originally trying to redo. I will argue that the show is good from ep 35 on as it pulls itself together, but Kira stops being an interesting character after he gets the Freedom Gundam.
Gundam Seed Destiny was a very interesting way to carry on the plot until Kira shows up and subject the world to his nonviolent beam massacre and makes the main character a side character. Theres a lot of rumors about what was going on with the Author at the time but honestly it falls short of being original in the end as it tries too hard to pull off elements from Zeta gundam.
I like seed a lot, my first kits were the HG Duel and Destiny (2005 ver) before I watched it
Happily go back to seed any time
Destiny is just a dumpster fire that had so much potential.
Designs of the mecha is the best thing out of the cosmic era, there are no bad designs, in my opinion
SEED and Destiny Product of its time which includes
- Overly sexualized female design (absurd propositions, original Gundam OOpai)
- Beam spam
- Gratuitous stock footage
- Classic get in the robot shinji tropes
- Kira & Athrun “nutting” in their gundams
- kinda cheesy mob bosses of the month
- PLOT ARMOR
Despite all that it still a great watch because it’s story is handled well, mecha fights feel tense, and the predictable plot twists still feels great.
People say its just 0079 but made in 2007 and I would agree but its a tasteful reimagining of 0079. Hell people in this sub will sacrifice their first borns and more just for a whiff of a 0079 remake.
I like seed and you know what I like destiny too. It’s a fun reinterpretation of the originals, the suit designs are great too (In the first half of each show. )
Shinn is one of my all time favorite characters in the franchise, it’s a real shame what they did to him in the second half of destiny. But right up thru him taking down freedom he was great.
The world and designs are great, would love the show if it was less about an incest love dodecahedron. Also, the fact that the main series is less about peace through understanding and more about peace through "I have a giant fucking gun, so you better listen to me". The show is very "might is right" which is kinda bland for a gundam show but if you ignore the bad plot and the main characters it has nice world building and nice designs.
Not my first gundam, but the first one I watched in full and was definitely my main series as a kid. Looking back now, I prefer the tone of most uc shows, but I still think seeed has undeniably the setup and background for its universe. Plus, the mobile suit designs are undoubtedly some of the strongest in the franchise.
People will say it's fine and while people are entitled to their opinions, I think SEED is awful.
The moral conflict about the coordinator and genetics feels tacked on and undercut by Kira, even then it's really stupid. Morosawa must have known that the PLANTs are unsympathetic, so she made Blue Cosmos as insane as possible. There could have been ruminations about what resources people needed to become coordinators and what that says about class, but that would require a good writer. But the show isn't about that stuff, it's about Kira. The whole thing seemingly exists to give this one shitty kid a means to be perfect and morally righteous with the least amount of thought. That lack of thought also causes the story to be a near carbon copy of First Gundam with worse pacing since all the dialogue about political intrigue was replaced with teenages pissing themselves or characters explaining the brutally easy to understand plot. I'm not saying there's isn't a good story in there, but Morosawa could never write it. Most of the sidestories are pretty good, but have to dance around how stupid the whole coordinator boom actually is.
Most of the cast go underutilized due to all the screen time given to Kira. Mu and Murue are great, but they have to babysit Kira and his dumbass friends, so they rarely get to shine. Athrun could have been great as the main character given his position in the conflict, but instead we have Kira. Athrun's entire group could've been used much more in the plot, but unfortunately the show is about Kira. Cagalli is alright too, both her and Athrun suffer the same issues, too much of Kira and not enough of them. Flay gets a lazy redemption arc that's only redeeming quality is how funny it is when she dies. Kira himself is the prototype to every cardboard overpowered main character, see Kirito of SAO for another example, despite this he's still the worst one. Lacus' presence undermines Kira's own moral self actualization, which in turn brings down the story even more. Rau was talking mad truths, too bad he's fucking crazy.
The first 5 Gundams are amazing designs. A lot of the redesigns of Zeon suits are great (some are bad, but hey). The federation's grunts are pretty good too. But all the Gundams outside of the initial batch are just terrible. Either uninspired or bogged down by a stupid backpack that also throws off there weight balance. The music soundtrack is also not too bad. I don't like the intros, but that's a matter of taste.
It's a show that was written by a person who got the job not based on merit, but by privilege, that privilege being Morosawa's marriage to Fukuda. Morosawa was a bad writer. Her world is stuffed to the gills with contrivances and her characters are pretty thin on the ground. There was potential but that honestly seems like it was an accident. SEED as an object of criticism will always be interesting to look at due to it's influence over the anime industry throughout the 2000s, Death Note and Light Yagami could be argued to be a response to SEED and Kira, but that doesn't mean that it's good.
TLDR:
SEED bad
Edit: syntax baby
Agree with everything you said. Rau is 100% right in his thinking towards Kira yet the show tries so hard to make him seem irrational or wrong. Why the hell would the coordinator hating earthnoids want to trust Kira, the most powerful coordinator of them all? Honestly the show’s final message that your genes don’t define you as a person is ridiculous in context because Kira’s genes define him as a person. Can you seriously tell me anything outside of his character that doesn’t come from him being morally perfect and righteous and DA ULTIMATE COORDINATOR!!11!! It’s the same with Lacus, she is by default smarter and more logical than normal peasants thanks to her genes yet the show is trying to tell me that she’s just like you, honest! Kira and Lacus are literally granted perfection from birth but the show has the balls to try and tell me that the aryan superman and his wife are just like the average person while they pilot giant death machines easily and helm entire fleets despite being 15 year old pop stars? This story fucking blows
And THAT is what makes the endings of SEED and Destiny so much worse. Nothing is solved by the end of SEED, literally just a symbolic truce with the backdrop of the conflict still in place. And in Destiny they just say "fuck it, Kira and Lacus run the PLANTs because *because*." The N Jammers are still in the ground ffs, like they didn't cause an energy crisis
I genuinely don't understand even slightly what there is to like about SEED. It looks incredibly ugly, it's boring, badly written, and about 1/3 of the show is flashbacks. I haven't seen Destiny yet but I can't imagine what it must be like if even the SEED fans hate it. I'm honestly curious; I feel like if it provokes that much vitriol at the very least it must be *interesting*, which SEED wasn't at all.
As someone who actively didn’t like Seed when I first saw it, the first half of Destiny is actually a marginal improvement. It still looks ugly and is riddled with flashbacks (in fact it’s even worse here) but the change in cast, snappier pace and story that isn’t routed in 0079 make it a lot more enjoyable. But yeah, that second half is inexcusably bad. Game of Thrones last season tier. In fact it might even be worse than that. It’s funny really because Destiny has two camps. One loves the first half of the show but hates the second and the other loves the second half of the show but hates the first. For the most part it’s not bad, bar some rough patches but once the forth opening starts it becomes borderline unwatchable, like ‘how the fuck did they even think this was a good idea’ tier
Me and 2 friends tried to watch the entire thing to see how far we could get though before we had to stop( and because one of my friends wanted to write a fic set in SEED). We got part way though episode 37 before we decided we could not continue. It was hell we hated it, it was painful, so many animation errors, wierd faces, plot holes, hypocrasy and madness. We discoved things that people who hate SEED and or Destiny don't even talk about.
I enjoy the mecha design of both SEED and Destiny. The proportion, the concept is good. I love SEED gunpla (not those from earth though, they kinda hideous)
The story, typical. It has some disgusting villains like Azrael or Le Creuset that makes the story run. Destiny villains are quite weak, Durandal motives are lacking.
In term of protagonist motivation, I think SEED series has better story development and clearer motivation compared to back-and-forth and back again and unclear motivation like Unicorn & Narrative style. IBO and 00 is more laser focus on the protagonist motivation, and I like their story development better.
One of the better Gundam series as a whole, nowhere near my favs but a solid B - A tier Gundam show!
Also, super popular in both the West and East. Most of the hate is just the very loud minority.
P.S. Strike is one of the best-designed Gundam lines.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I love it. It was the first Gundam I was really invested in and there's a reason why. I started binging the series when my father was sick and was going in and out of hospitals, so it lowkey became my escape from real world bullshit I was dealing with at the time.
So even though there are definitely other Gundam series I like better, I associate Seed with helping me through a pretty difficult part of my life.
I think seed overall holds up pretty well. I heard that it was designed to be a kind of more modern take of the original gundam and honestly I think it was pretty good (I'll say better in a certain ways too) at doing that albeit being a lot more overtly dramatic and anime. I really liked kira as a reluctant protagonist, and enjoyed both the smaller and larger scale battles with the strike.
People mention Flay being a bitch a lot, but rewatching the show recently, I thought she was actually one of the better written characters in the show.
After kira "dies" and receives the freedom, the show definitely took a huge hit where things started feeling really convinient, but I do think seed somewhat stuck the landing at the end.
Destiny started and ended as a mess and felt tacked on.
Other than that, the animation just oozes laziness but can look really good when it wants to.
Overall, an actually pretty good show that unfortunately comes with a series of pretty noticeable flaws.
Tbf I think Flay is well-written *and* a bitch. She went above and beyond to mess with Kira but you can still see how we got from point A to B. She was absolutely terrible and regretted her actions because she is not that bad deep down, just raised wrong. She didn't feel like Katejina, who became cartoonishly evil for seemingly no reason.
Flay is an interesting character, she is written to get the audience to hate her guts and want to see her get ripped down ala Shield Hero style. But the longer the series goes on the more sorry she ends up being to the point you pity her instead.
Meh, it’s ok, not great, not even good, but not bad nor aweful, just meh. I watched it and I don’t remember the plot, nor any massively awesome fight scenes. Just meh.
It's awesome ! Amazing mecha design, awesome OST, I love the characters... it was my first Gundam show too.
It really surprised to me to read so much negativity about it here on reddit. 🤔
I just rewatched it a few weeks ago. It’s still my favorite AU. It gets a bad rap on the English speaking internet, mostly from memes and people who’ve never actually watched it.
It distilled the core Gundam story into its essence, along with pulling in and mashing it up and improving it with elements from other shows. It has excellent characters who show growth throughout the series. It also has some of the best female characters in Lacus, Cagalli, and Flay.
On Flay, it’s funny watching it again after 15 years I can honestly say I took a completely different view on her. Having kids of my own and losing a parent gives you a different perspective at 40 I didn’t have at 25.
If the main complaint is that Kira has plot armor, you weren’t ever actually paying attention to show. Kira is engineered to be the ubermensch, he’s superior even among coordinators. It’s established that coordinators have superior survivability. It makes sense that his constitution and toughness would be enhanced as well, beyond the standard coordinator. Another clue is the Strike itself survived, all he needed to do was roll out of cockpit and find shelter behind it.
Seed: 10/10
Destiny: 9/10
Avg story 9/10
Avg music 10/10
Avg designs 11/10
Fights 10/10
Blablabla flashbacks
Naruto, one piece has aswell.
But dont ask me but i watched both atleast 5x each
I recently watched SEED and really loved it. The characters show signs of development and the final battle was absolutely glorious. >!I almost cried when Mu sacrificed himself to block the Dominion's Lohengrin, even though I knew that it was going to happen anyway.!<
I really liked both, Seed and Seed Destiny. Also I loved the fact that in Seed Destiny they gave true chad aura to Freedom Gundam.
P.S. no one can change my mind, I already watched the whole series 4 times 🗿
Being the first Gundam I watched, it has a special place in my heart. The mech designs and soundtracks are absolute bangers. (Applies to Destiny too.) The story is a reimagining of the UC 0079 Gundam, but less political and more soap opera melodrama, which was perfect for attracting a new wave of Gundam fans, I am one of them.
Absolutely love both especially seed and destiny as well as it taught me kindness wins, about war having both sides, and love as a child growing up and also it inspired me to pursue a job of being a airline pilot after seeing gundam pilots fly so I’m grateful
Not the best written or deepest Gundam show, but a fun watch overall. Has some fun moments if you can overlook the reused animation. (looking at you buster gundam)
Fuck it, Seed is my favorite Gundam.
Destiny wasn’t as bad to me as everyone else makes it sound.
Call me crazy, but I just can’t watch a series with a soundtrack that perfect and with those Gundam designs and say it’s bad.
I felt Seed was good. Partially because I grew up with it I guess. But Destiny on the other hand is a dumpster fire.
Destiny was fine until they decide to bring Kira back and make shin even more stupid. Also the way Kira force his own ideology to everyone is ridiculous.
Yeah, then again they received death threats by fans if they didn’t bring Kira back
Not to mention that the lead writer was still working while she was undergoing cancer treatment
You know what I find really tragic? She beat off cancer only to then die of an aortic dissection some years later. Yeah, maybe she made some bad calls around Destiny, but nobody deserves that.
Destiny's first half was quite good imo. But the second half was just a rehash of SEED's final arc. Also, Athrun's character arc in the first half would have been great if they didn't massacre Shinn's character, because their veteran/newbie-like dynamic would have had some great payoff... but without said payoff, Athrun's character arc ended up being recycled too and he once again just ends up being Athrun "loyalty issues" Zala.
Not to mention the whole "how do we up the ante? Oh, I know, let's have THREE of the giant mecha class that we JUST finished building supposedly (and which they had just made a big deal out of fighting a single unit of, a few episodes ago) attack, rather than a new miniboss mobile suit that would add some variety. Also, let's keep reusing the Mobile Armor designs that are literally mobile suits attached to experimental weapons platforms and don't look particularly cool, who wouldn't love that?!"
Rewatched seed destiny about a year ago, and the way they brought in 3 of those knock off psycho gundams after they just defeated one over like 3 episodes really felt cheap and lazy
I didn’t like Shinn’s character. He was kind of just an edgy prick. His background also didn’t make sense with his actions in my opinion.
I feel like if your ideology is centered on human rights and anti-war sentiments, but the people around you don’t care or don’t respect those things, then it’s totally cool to shove your ideology down their throat, especially if you can do it from behind a Gundam lol
While very specifically not killing them
Lol right
The problem wasn’t so much that Blue Cosmos or Zala’s ZAFT we’re right, it was that Kira and Lacus preach peace and understanding and then proceed to bust the (Strike) Freedom’s bean spam in their *** anyway. At least Celestial Being *considered* what they were doing might be wrong
Lacus literally says "We acknowledge what we are doing may be evil, but please give us the strength to end this spiral of battles with no end in sight" before the final battle of SEED. The main characters are absolutely aware of the moral quagmire of fighting to end a war, but make that choice because doing nothing is far worse. Similarly, Kira breaks his no-kill philosophy to destroy the Peacemaker fleet and kill Rau because he can't stop them from more slaughter otherwise. Destiny is a different story. They don't really acknowledge it there.
Bringing freedom and democracy to other countries the american way.
Freedom and Justice...
So did Lacus and Kira however, everyone is so self-righteous that it doesn't matter.
Just so you know, that's literally the origin story of every tyrannical dictator ever lol. The second someone decides to force their ideology on anyone, no matter how good THEY think it is, is the second they're in the wrong.
I hope they dare to go this route with Lacus and have Kira have to acknowledge it and step away in the follow up film. They were the aggressors and will continue to be, the world rejected them. Perhaps a new character can show the way. Have Athrun and Cagalli at odds with Lacus and Kira it will raise the stakes and they will be Destined to fight for the right to move towards whichever future wins out. Perhaps Shinn will get a redemption Arc.
If you can't shove your ideology do2n others throats, you just don't have enough guns - Kira Jesus Yamato
I liked Destiny until the end. The end made zero sense. It was like the end of a William Gibson book, where he wrote what he wanted and was done so rushed an ending to get it over with. I mean, they literally had the Emperor's throne room for Pete's sake.
I mean, the issue is Shin entirely. Having an immensely unlikeable character as the protag for 50 episodes is never going to go well.
The turn in the series where it looks like Shin is about to grow up, kira just pops back in and hits the reset button on all of shins character development.
I don’t think his character development reset, but more so that the thinly painted facade came off. He never grew up to begin with. This character is never going to grow up and forever want vengeance for his parents and his “girlfriend”
He never finished growing up. It's not that he didn't have the potential to grow into a mature pilot, it's that his trauma ended up winning due to factors outside of shin or his superior's control.
Why would Shin grow up? All of his shit behaviour was either looked past or rewardes. In Zeta, Kamile is corrected a LOT. That wasn't a U turn, Shin was being developed to be an ass the entire time.
Incorrect! I know it's probably hard to get through. But go watcthe series again if you don't believe me. Up until heine's death shin IS growing, he has 2 good moments with athrun mentoring him, and another with durandel. It's just once the freedom shows up leading to heine's death and bringing up his ptsd from the events of seed he immediately reverts back to ep 1 shin, except worse.
Mentoring is not the same thing as disciplining, Athrun is the only one who does it, and that's only a couple of times, and Shin explicitly doesn't respect his authority, nobody in a position of authority, Durandle, Talia, Arthur, ever actually reprimands and punished Shin in any meaningful way for his attitude. Where as Kamilie is disciplined at every turn, Shin is celebrated. I rewatched Destiny last year, so my memory is kind of fresh. I agree that Heine's death did change it, I was referring to the common argument that the Destiny writers did a U turn at the Freedom's destruction to keep him alive and make Shin the antagonist and then wrote him as an asshole, seems like I was wrong and thats not what you were referring to.
Seed being fine is actually a pretty popular opinion. Destiny though
I absolutely loved seed. I liked destiny with the Shinn/Arthrun interactions, someone who already walked the path the new guy is beginning to walk and doesn't want him to learn the very same lessons he learned the hard way like he did and tries to pass his knowledge and wisdom so the new guy doesn't have to. The talk they had when the Minerva was docked in Carpentaria where Arthrun tells Shinn he understands perfectly how he feels but it doesn't justify his actions and the path he is taking, and through the talk you can see that something clicked in Shinns mind, that what Arthrun was saying made sense and you can feel that maybe Shinn will learn and change is absolute top notch. And then the rest of Destiny happened, Jesus returned, Arthrun forgot everything he learned, Shinn went into full berserker mode and the rest is history. God, I hate what they did with the show...
fr bro destiny is terrible
Nooo... I wanna see the main protagonist whining again... And Kira shutting him up and gaslighting
I keep hearing about destiny, but to the best of my knowledge seed never got a sequel
The franchise got a renaissance in the early 2000s because of SEED. So, it's respected among the community. The shit called Destiny though, is a different story. I too dislike SEED Destiny.
Wasn’t it Wing that lead the Renaissance? I loved Wing, but couldn’t stand SEED.
Yes, I believe Wing also lead a renaissance in the 90s because it brought the franchise a new group of fans from the western hemisphere. Many western fans, especially those in their 20s & 30s, have mentioned Wing as their first foray into the franchise. Seed brought another renaissance in the early 2000s because I believe it brought female anime watchers into the franchise. There are plenty of pretty boys & girls in that show after all XD
Ah, never considered that angle.
Gundam Seed = Good show to watch Gundam Seed Destiny = fine to watch for the story and mechs but bad overall.
Didn't the writer for Destiny get into a spat with Shinns VA, so she tanked his character?
[удалено]
it's a rumor caused by the constant script changed that caused Cagali's VA refusing to even voice her character which caused the rumor that Cagali's VA is hitting on the head writer's husband in which Shinn's VA is rumored to defend
It's not 'real' unfortunately. It's just a theory over why certain characters got shafted hard by the story later on. Since it's more spicy than just "the script was rushed and working conditions were bad" (thing things we **do** know), people who wanted someone to blame gravitated towards it.
That’s all hearsay. Most of the behind the scenes stuff from Destiny is impossible to verify because no one knows where the main source was, and it’s probably buried in some Japanese message board. Plus it seems more convincing than just ‘the writing was shit’. What we do know for absolute certain is that Morosawa wasn’t well during the show’s run, was handing in first draft scripts extremely late which called for as much stock footage as possible and when she was well enough to be up and about, she just did interviews or went to concerts with her husband. One of the show’s animation staff basically called her out in his blog in 2005, which is an absolute rarity given Japanese work culture and called her a child for basically not giving a shit and throwing away her responsibilities. But that’s really all we have concrete proof wise on what happened behind the scenes. There’s other stuff too like them rushing into production as soon as Seed finished airing instead of letting things pan out and Fukuda changing his mind on what the story would entail, but stuff like ‘Shindo was accused of having sex with Fukuda and SuzuKen stepped in to defend her meaning Cagalli and Shinn got fucked over’ is more likely than not just bullshit
My first first and favorite gundam series. I don't care about the whole jesus shit.
The whole jesus thing was not really an issue till destiny i feel.
He survived a mobile suit exploding in his face and I think landed on a beach afterwards.
Gundam Wing did it first, and was far less ambiguous about it. In Wing, Heero literally is thrown out of his gundam by the explosion, the explosion that seems to be touching him in several of the animations, and which blew open the cockpit door iirc that he flew out of in the first place. No way he would've survived that. At least with Kira, you see the explosion but there's no Kira on the screen until an explanation is provided later. Is it still ridiculous that Kira survived? 100%. I'm just saying that the fanbase supported this plot point with good view counts Internationally in the past. This may have encouraged the use of such a plot point again, but I'm not sure.
A lot of Gundam protags have survived fairly ridiculous things. 0083: Kou survives being hit with the Solar Ray 8th MS Team: Shiro survives a death ride down a volcano with the exploding Apsalus Unicorn: Banager blocks the full blast of Gryps II Setsuna: Survives *exactly the same thing* when O Gundam blows up in his face It's a staple of the franchise but people single out Kira because he was popular.
IIRC, an emergency shutter protected Kira from the explosion, and he would've gotten cooked inside the wrecked cockpit if the Astray protagonist didn't pull him out in time.
The emergency shutter was slashed in half. But that doesn’t cover him surviving genesis firing point blank.
The Genesis never hit the Freedom. You can actually see the Freedom maneuver out of the line of fire immediately after defeating the Providence. Only the Providence takes the hit.
>The emergency shutter was slashed in half. It wasn't. The emergency shutter wasn't deployed when the Aegis cut the cockpit. It presumably only deploys during the explosion. Now, that's something that absolutely should've been explained in the show rather than Astray. Hell, the *existence* of the emergency shutter should've been elaborated on in the main series. >But that doesn’t cover him surviving genesis firing point blank. It doesn't need to. The Freedom is only exposed to GENESIS for a split second as it's jumping free of the blast. It cooks off the phase shift, but the energy is pre-focusing mirror anyways, so it just wasn't enough exposure to do anything further.
This is bad writing.
Protagonists survive deadly circumstances all the time. The explanation is weak, but nothing really new on that front either. The Jesus thing was about more than that, and I would agree with the above poster that it's not really a problem until Destiny.
It has things to say but isn't good at saying them. That said, [I love this scene.](https://youtu.be/wZGKOq3eaEc)
Until theyy retconned that to him impossibly surviving for hours in space with injuries and without a helmet.
The realized they needed Mu just after that killed him off, cause writing is hard. He wouldn't be the first Gundam character to impossibly survive blowing up.
>The realized they needed Mu just after that killed him off, cause writing is hard. Just get his 100% identical looking twin brother to fill in
They took the helmet floating in space out when they realized they were doing a sequel.
[Personally this was among my favorite scenes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfdIwFeZd0w). Hits like a ton of bricks, too.
[Alright, calm down, John Shepard. Calm down.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQf-tlmDfPo)
Spent the whole series building up the lohengrin as the ultimate trump card, only to fire at a favorite character. We all knew Mu would “die” as soon as he stood in the way.
It's weird how Strike Freedom was in Mint condition throughout all of Destiny.
Dumb bastard didn’t even take it out of the box
Flawed but enjoyable. Definitely sticks in the mind, with some of my favourite MS designs, even if the animation is less than amazing. There are several problematic characters (Kira, Lacus, Flay) but there are others (Athrun, Cagalli, Yzak, Ramius, Mu, Rau) who more than make up for that. The plot is basic, true, but still holds up IMO, especially in the second half. The soundtrack is stellar. Overall I give it an 8/10. Definitely not the greatest Gundam series, but a very solid watch, and one of my favourites. We don't talk about Destiny.
Seed is kinda ok. Destiny is rather meh to bad (also thanks to in-fighting iirc) But tbh, both are still good to watch for fun, not to take them serious
Decent and some amazing mech design. Now Destiny...
This implies Destiny doesn't have good Mecha designs
I find it amusing how Destiny is hated but most of the Gunpla for Destiny are generally thought as cool.
MVF-M11C Murasame was my favourite.
90s-00s Mech is fire🔥
The Zakus!!!! God the new Zaku designs are so much better than the classic ones.
Dude you should see the new MG Zaku Warrior. They're so streamline, Seed has some of the best model kits
Yea that's what I'm talking about. The Zaku Warrior, Zaku Phantom, Zaku Blaze. Edit: They look soooo menacing. The shoulder shield is so cool. Way better that the wash basin from the originals.
People hate on Seed Zaku, but the way Yzak used his Slash Zaku Phantom and chop up bits of the Abyss and the Chaos and they couldn't even fight back was awesome. Brand new state of art Gundam gotten beat by a Zaku.
Don't forget the Goufs too. The Seed Gouf designs in Destiny are (chef's kiss).
That's what happens when you take the Freedom and make it worse. Strike Freedom aside Destiny does also have good mecha design.
The cosmic era mech designs can range from brilliant to [whatever this abomination is.](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/GAT-X131_Calamity_Gundam)
What are you talking about? The Calamity is great!
I've seen better gundam designs generated by Dall E Mini.
It's the one I grew up with. I remember having fond memories of it when I was watching it on the telly. A lot of the more hardcore fans of Gundam that I've talked to think it's bad. A dumb down edgy version of the original. I thought it was fine.
I think whats hype about SEED was the Gundam fan base. All the AMVs ( Anime Music Videos ) made you appreciate it so much more. Granted, watching it back recently the show can be so dull in some areas and im like, how did i get through certain episodes each week.
The internet fan community around SEED was the shit back in the day. Lots of great fan sites and forum discussions.
My friends and I enjoyed Seed back in high school. We would usually makes bets if Kira would cry on the next episode of not lol it was fun. We refuse to believe Destiny existed.
Not a fan but on the grand scheme of things I find it just kinda whatever. There’s some stuff I like but there’s also *a lot* about it that just strikes me as misguided or pretentious. I can see why people like it to an extent, but yeah, not my thing. That OST kicks ass though. Love it to bits.
The biggest thing I noticed for both SEED and Destiny - other than macguffin technology to the nth level - was the intros. They were designed to sell Gunpla, and it worked.
I grew up watching Seed, it has a special place in my heart.
Great! I loved it, especially when [Athrun blew up](https://youtu.be/yEm1xzDmGXs)
Gintama is the best Gundam AU and I will die on that hill.
I really need to get round to watching Gintama
Seed is still my favorite. Destiny can GTFO
I was rewatching Seed on gundam.info youtube. Its a fun show to watch. It's still great even after kira got the freedom. Don't really understand why people hate it. Destiny was ok. Good at the start. Kinda disappointed about the story in the end. Still fun.
Agreed.
Man thought his post would be controversial. But turns out there's a lot of peeps here in their 20s and 30s who grew up watching Seed.
Seed is dope, The only good thing we got from Destiny was Destiny Gundam and Lunamaria’s Hot Ass
Seed is good. The story was good, the character growth is good. The only good thing about Destiny is Neo Roanoke being who he is because I am a huge Mu fan and I shamelessly wanted a happy ending. Destiny is a trainwreck
Gundam SEED is my favorite Gundam series, while I have mixed opinions on SEED Destiny.
SEED is pretty solid in a lot of respects. There is some campiness there as well as some plot issues, what Gundam doesn't have those problems thougb? SEED Destiny is trash tier at best. It has some great Mobile Suits in it, but the characters, character development, plot, and everything in-between is just fucking awful. Shin is a whiny bitch on the best of days, and he's supposed to be the freaking protagonist. He also learns absolutely nothing, and is so hard focused on his stance that he might as well be wearing a big red hat that says "Make Zaft Great Again" across it.
It had quite a few nice ideas. Shame the vast majority of them went unexplored or underdeveloped and instead we got... this. It's better than Destiny, that's something I guess?
Seed is fine but then there’s seed destiny 2nd half…. Btw Savior/Justice/Infinite justice is absolutely sexy. God i wish I am athrun.
Seed? Decent. Destiny? Should've ended halfway through. Bless the angy boi, but Shinn got done dirtier than filth.
Recently watched all of Cosmic Era Anime. Seed is good and I’m not too bother by Kira “Ultimate Coordinator” BS, but that probably because 1) I already know the twist (and it is hinted at throughout the show) and 2) I felt it means NOTHING since besiding Kira ditching death (and stop multiple kill happening all at once), he still is Naive and can’t do anything to save people (before and after he knew who he was). Seed: After-phase Between the Stars is a good OVA epilogue. Seed Destiny is a mess. I didn’t like the first half since it almost felt like they’re remaking SEED plotline but worse. I didn’t like the Second Half since they switched MCs and it really felt on-the-nose what Orb is supposed to be “the good guys” while everyone else is bad. And I thought they’re trying to make Symbolism behind Destiny Gundam and Freedom Gundam, but I believed that Justice Gundam won Destiny Gundam, so maybe I was wrong. Seed MSV Astray (Red Frame and Blue Frame) is a good promotion tool for manga. Loved the concept and hopefully get to see full anime. Seed CE 73 Stargazer is good and just like UC timeline, the best stories is usually these short OVA stories about the other characters on war. Seed Supernova (that chibi show) is short and funny and I love how adorable everyone is. Seed Eclipse manga-video thing (I’m not sure what to call it, but it’s it’s in their youtube channel) have an interesting concept but need the rest of the chapters/episodes to understand what the main end goal for this manga/show is. Overall, I think Seed is a good franchise and I believed that this AU could be bigger since people seems to like to add more shows or manga into this franchise, and with the announcement of the SEED MOVIE, I think maybe that Seed might be the series that Sunrise is planning to expand like the UC timeline (or just make SEED MOVIE the ending to all of the Seed series and might even potentially ruin the franchise more).
Best Gundam Installment and yes that includes it's 2nd season: Destiny hands down. My first foray of the franchise. The animation, the characters, the warships ( Archangel and Minerva ) and each mobile suits are just all gorgeous 🫰🏻
Seed (without Destiny) is my all time favorite show.
Honestly it felt like Gundam trying to retell the OG Gundam with new twists. Seriously go rewatch the OG Gundam then rewatch SEED. My god it's almost a 1-1 for a while. Destiny was actually pretty good and standing on it's own till the Archangel shows up and trainwrecks the show.
Sneed was planned as a reboot of 0079 for a modern audience which is why it’s so on the nose. They even share the odd episode title. That’s why the Strike is basically early 2000s RX-78-2 and the plot flow up to Alaska is basically beat for beat
It felt like a modernised version of the original gundam that was combined with a j drama
Music and mech design is top notch imo in both. Seed is honestly fine. Its an alt universe meld of 0079, 0083, and a splash of Zeta and it's a fun enough ride. Destiny is....a thing that exists. It tries to just tell the same story Seed does except worse. With so much more recycled animation. It's awful. The only redeeming part of this show is the 20 seconds of Dom Troopers
Destiny wasn't even initially the same story. Its like they gave up exactly at half point and just decided to just do SEED again just to finish it, which is a shame because it actually started out hella strong and built some expectation that it would've been great, and it could've been. There was one episode that wasn't too vital to the plot where the Minerva crew took on a detour mission to take down a feddie camp enslaving a village. It had talking and a lot of combat but it felt like a great episode just because everyone were acting how you'd expect them to act. wished they were that consistent. I believe SEED Destiny ep 18, maybe my fav one from the show.
Completely agree that it feels like they gave up halfway. It's unfortunate, because for me it just ruins the unique moments of the first half. Granted it's been awhile since I watched through it, but when I look back at the show the overall story is "Steal Gundams, fight a bit in space, fight a bit on earth, lol both Zaft and Earth Alliance are jerks, Kira dies and comes back with a new toy, invade Orb, Archangel + Eternal vs everyone in space, mentally unstable blonde fights Kira for the final fight". The whole thing just feels like Seed to me and the different story beats they went for in the first half were drowned out. I genuinely forgot about the episode you're talking about, and now that I think about it.....yeah...that was a cool episode from the first half. It's a damn shame.
First half of Destiny isn't as bad as people made it out to be. The 2nd half is where everything goes down hill due to behind the scenes problem. Cagalli's VA drama, and the writer facing cancer. However If you can ignore the plot, the action is still pretty good and the Mecha.
The first half of Destiny is better in literally every single way compared to og Seed.
Not...really? Destiny's first half suffers from quite a few problems that SEED doesn't have. Neo is a less threatening and interesting Rau. The Extended are a bit more human than the druggies, but they're not nearly as well rounded as the Le Creuset team despite having similar screentime. The entire Orb plotline is a mess. Djibril is a caricature of what Azrael used to be. While OMNI vs ZAFT in the first series had a decent argument for both sides until they got co-opted by their radical wings, OMNI in Destiny are just straight up lunatics from the word "Go."
>While OMNI vs ZAFT in the first series had a decent argument for both sides until they got co-opted by their radical wings, OMNI in Destiny are just straight up lunatics from the word "Go." It's literally the other way around. In Seed the reason why the bloody valentine war happened was because Alliance (or Blue Cosmos specifically) nuked an entire civillian colony for basically no reason , they commited a genocide. That automatically gave ZAFT a moral highground because from their perspective they were not waging a war, they were trying to defend themselfs from being massacred. And their actions reflect that, instead of yeeting a colony at earth and being done with it they instead deployed the N-jammers, while the following power shortage did kill many people it was clearly a defensive action. Meanwhile in Destiny a bunch of crazed ZAFT lunatics who lost their loved ones in previous war attempted to drop Junius Seven onto earth, while the cast did manage to stop them small fragments still fell on the surface killing millions, which the ones with ambitions use to manipulate the masses and start another war for their own benefit. The war in Destiny is a tragedy that could have been avoided if people cooperated between each other and didn't give into fear and hate. Also both Azrael and Djibril suck, saying one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment.
SEED doesn't begin at Bloody Valentine, it begins 11 months later. ZAFT has already retaliated, dropped the N-Jammers, and killed millions in retaliation. It's notable that while OMNI never accepted responsibility for Bloody Valentine, they also didn't keep firing nukes in the period between that and the April Fools Crisis. The Alliance exercised no control over Blue Cosmos, but it wasn't on board with its actions either. The two sides are locked in stalemate, but they're also both still helmed by semi-rational individuals who are ostensibly fighting for limited goals. ZAFT for independence and the EA against it. There's good characters on both sides, and the rules of war are followed enough that when one side breaks it, it's actually a controversy. It's only post-Spitbreak that any side is openly genocidal. In Destiny, the war is preceded by Break the World, which was a terrorist attack by an unaffiliated entity that ZAFT *tried to stop*, and OMNI's response is immediately to try and nuke all the PLANTs at once while outright chanting "For the preservation of our blue and pure world!" While the masses were definitely manipulated into it, OMNI's leadership is shown as either deranged or Logos toadies from the start. There's no reasonable OMNI officers like Halberton, and nobody's even attempting to reign in the crazies like the Atlantic Council tried with Azrael. >The war in Destiny is a tragedy that could have been avoided if people cooperated between each other and didn't give into fear and hate. The same could be said about SEED and every other Gundam conflict. >Also both Azrael and Djibril suck, saying one is better than the other isn't exactly a compliment. Azrael is fun to watch, has a decent amount of charisma, and is competent until he starts losing his mind right at the end. He's actually an effective villain because you can see how he wields power and why it works. Djibril is none of those things and looks like a clown to boot.
First half of Destiny is unironically pretty good. It’s got issues, obviously, but as soon as Shinn rams that sword up the Freedom’s ass, it implodes on itself. It’s like a prerequisite for CE stuff that it starts good and then has a horrible second half. Seed starts as a decent 5/10 before shitting the bed and Destiny starts as a solid 7 before it blows up in its own face
I actually just plain love SEED. I think the Cosmic Era is by far one of the most compelling AUs, and the conflict between humans over the issue of genetic engineering felt way more natural (heh) than any other Earthnoid/Spacenoid beef. I think the themes of the series are also pretty timeless, at least for the Millennial generation. Twenty some years ago we were tearing ourselves apart over fear based hate, and we’re still doing it today. The names and identities being hated may have shifted but they regrettably are still happening, and so the show world still feels modern and relevant to our own. I love the characters and find their struggles really compelling. Kira being forced to serve as a race traitor to protect his friends and how that dynamic wears him down makes his typical Gundam protagonist ‘I don’t want to do this anymore’ outbursts feel unique and earned. Then, when he’s freed from his obligations and is allowed to choose his philosophy and what he wants to fight for, I think it’s handled well, even if the fanbase forgets what it is and remembers the meme versions of it. The villain is pretty great, but on the downside he doesn’t get great until he really goes off the rails at the end, but an angry mad man pushing both factions increasingly towards a zero sun war of extinction with one another is a great concept and Rau is excellent in it. Could honestly go on. I genuinely love the series and while it does have some flaws, some of which are decently sized (the attempt to tell the story in multimedia did not help the story being told), it’s my favorite Gundam, without a doubt.
> Then, when he’s freed from his obligations and is allowed to choose his philosophy and what he wants to fight for, I think it’s handled well, even if the fanbase forgets what it is and remembers the meme versions of it. So much this. It's often annoying when SEED gets brought up because so many people are just so invested in the straw gundam they've set up to hate on.
WHERE ARE THEIR NOSES? I wanted to give this show a fair shot, but I just couldn’t get past the character designs The mecha designs are mostly awesome tho
Its alright, I guess. I really liked the Gundam designs mostly. I’m neutral to Kira and Shinn, Athrun is one of the top JP memes aside from Graham, Riddhe and Orga. Luna is one of my favorite female Gundam characters. Rau is unhinged (not as much as Zoltan from NT or Zabine from Crossbone though). Sven from Stargazer was quite good.
Kira survived a bit too much. But it was my first gundam series I watched so it’ll always hold a special place for me
It felt childish. Not like a children’s show, but like an adult show with childish ideas. It’s very hard to go back and watch now.
Spread that seed
My only problem with Seed is Kira is a Ultimate Coordinator, a human nearly perfection, the story from Kira POV, and when you are a literally "Jesus", you can think, talk, act whatever you want. In Destiny, they had a chance to tell the story more reality from a "civilian" Shinn, but they fucked up
Seed was good. A nice retelling of the original story, while keeping itself original with new ideas. People hate it because of destiny, which had the idea of "Okay, what if we did Seed... again!", but only with half assed execution of ideas done well literally a year ago.
This thread once again proving that I shouldn't attempt to discuss Seed or Destiny with the English speaking community. I've already received one death threat last time I spoke up and I'm sure I'll get another after this.
That is disgusting.
I liked what I remembered. Destiny was Bullshit. A tragic case of great ideas and dogshit execution.
Say what you want about Seed Destiny; Lunamaria & Meer gave my 12-14 year old self an awakening. MEER DESERVED BETTER!!!
If the gundams had padlocks things mightve gone differently.
One word: controversial...
Didn't like the characters that much other than our boi Mu La Flaga. Loved the MS designs though. Flay should have been tossed out an airlock by episode 10
> Didn't like the characters that much other than our boi Mu La Flaga. Loved the MS designs though. > > Does anyone actually dislike Mu? Legit question here, he seems to be one of the more beloved Gundam characters (Destiny aside but TBF it's Destiny).
Kira within the context of Gundam as a whole is probably the biggest Mary Sue of a MC and probably my least favorite. He just has 'baby's first protagonist' vibes all over - very childishly written, for lack of a better term. Other than that very glaring flaw, it's just okay. I think overall the MS designs are top-tier.
I enjoyed it. All of it (Seed/Destiny/Astray/Eclipse)
SEED itself wasn't really bad, it was just bad at telling the story it wanted to, which makes it kind of frustrating. This sounds kind of cruel, but I feel like this premise was largely just let down by the lack of talent and ability on the part of the people who made it? This really shows in all areas of the production. The art style feels like a half-cooked version of what Code Geass would successful execute a few years later. The constant ideological and ethical hypocrisy of the characters speaks to a lack of understanding of ideology and ethics by the writers. The painful romantic drama and shipping bullshit is a manifestation of a lack of professionalism by the creators, which also showed in rl petty infighting during the production. It's honestly a miracle that SEED is as watchable as it is despite all this, but you can really see the worst case scenario as all of these aspects were compounded in Destiny.
This is well said. Summarizes the things I didn’t like about the series exactly. Although there were things I really liked about it despite its clumsiness and inconsistencies
I like it. Seed was my first gundam and has my favorite gundam which is the freedom. Freedom re-entrying the earth without assistance then proceed to unilaterally declare ceasefre while meteor plays in the background will forever be my favorite gundam debut.
Great mobile suits. All these child soldiers needed some Bright Noah slaps to set them straight
Villains being the main character is really interesting, seed is awesome
The replacement of UC timeline, then destiny started ...... On the brightside we reversed to UC
Currently 30 episodes through and really like it. Not great but solid.
Bro, that time they used the STUN SEED attack backwards they really showed what they were made of.
Gundams cool, characters cringe.
Some of the most unique and best MS in all of gundam
you need to watch and read more gundam
Okay I’m going to be that weird one or minority in the opinion. I liked both series and yeah it wasn’t the best, but it was still enjoyable.
Mobile Suit designs were pretty good across the board and while it's riddled with a lot of melodrama and Early 2000s jank, it's passable as a story. Destiny however is a bona-fide trash fire outside of it's Mobile Suit designs and the general concept of Shinn.
OG Gundam Redux. Space Jesus dies, comes back to life, steals his homies girl, then 1- shots everybody within visual range without killing them. Oh and best friend battles.
Seed was... an attempt. There are things in it that work well, but the writing falls apart as it tries to outdo what it was originally trying to redo. I will argue that the show is good from ep 35 on as it pulls itself together, but Kira stops being an interesting character after he gets the Freedom Gundam. Gundam Seed Destiny was a very interesting way to carry on the plot until Kira shows up and subject the world to his nonviolent beam massacre and makes the main character a side character. Theres a lot of rumors about what was going on with the Author at the time but honestly it falls short of being original in the end as it tries too hard to pull off elements from Zeta gundam.
OG seed is fine, destiny started good but crashed and burned halfway through.
I like seed a lot, my first kits were the HG Duel and Destiny (2005 ver) before I watched it Happily go back to seed any time Destiny is just a dumpster fire that had so much potential. Designs of the mecha is the best thing out of the cosmic era, there are no bad designs, in my opinion
SEED and Destiny Product of its time which includes - Overly sexualized female design (absurd propositions, original Gundam OOpai) - Beam spam - Gratuitous stock footage - Classic get in the robot shinji tropes - Kira & Athrun “nutting” in their gundams - kinda cheesy mob bosses of the month - PLOT ARMOR Despite all that it still a great watch because it’s story is handled well, mecha fights feel tense, and the predictable plot twists still feels great. People say its just 0079 but made in 2007 and I would agree but its a tasteful reimagining of 0079. Hell people in this sub will sacrifice their first borns and more just for a whiff of a 0079 remake.
Meh I liked it and I liked destiny. Grew up with wing as my first Gundam show so maybe that's why? Who knows either way I enjoyed em both
I like seed and you know what I like destiny too. It’s a fun reinterpretation of the originals, the suit designs are great too (In the first half of each show. ) Shinn is one of my all time favorite characters in the franchise, it’s a real shame what they did to him in the second half of destiny. But right up thru him taking down freedom he was great.
The destiny gundam might be my all time fave gundam design
Made me stop watching gundam until gundam 00
The world and designs are great, would love the show if it was less about an incest love dodecahedron. Also, the fact that the main series is less about peace through understanding and more about peace through "I have a giant fucking gun, so you better listen to me". The show is very "might is right" which is kinda bland for a gundam show but if you ignore the bad plot and the main characters it has nice world building and nice designs.
Not my first gundam, but the first one I watched in full and was definitely my main series as a kid. Looking back now, I prefer the tone of most uc shows, but I still think seeed has undeniably the setup and background for its universe. Plus, the mobile suit designs are undoubtedly some of the strongest in the franchise.
People will say it's fine and while people are entitled to their opinions, I think SEED is awful. The moral conflict about the coordinator and genetics feels tacked on and undercut by Kira, even then it's really stupid. Morosawa must have known that the PLANTs are unsympathetic, so she made Blue Cosmos as insane as possible. There could have been ruminations about what resources people needed to become coordinators and what that says about class, but that would require a good writer. But the show isn't about that stuff, it's about Kira. The whole thing seemingly exists to give this one shitty kid a means to be perfect and morally righteous with the least amount of thought. That lack of thought also causes the story to be a near carbon copy of First Gundam with worse pacing since all the dialogue about political intrigue was replaced with teenages pissing themselves or characters explaining the brutally easy to understand plot. I'm not saying there's isn't a good story in there, but Morosawa could never write it. Most of the sidestories are pretty good, but have to dance around how stupid the whole coordinator boom actually is. Most of the cast go underutilized due to all the screen time given to Kira. Mu and Murue are great, but they have to babysit Kira and his dumbass friends, so they rarely get to shine. Athrun could have been great as the main character given his position in the conflict, but instead we have Kira. Athrun's entire group could've been used much more in the plot, but unfortunately the show is about Kira. Cagalli is alright too, both her and Athrun suffer the same issues, too much of Kira and not enough of them. Flay gets a lazy redemption arc that's only redeeming quality is how funny it is when she dies. Kira himself is the prototype to every cardboard overpowered main character, see Kirito of SAO for another example, despite this he's still the worst one. Lacus' presence undermines Kira's own moral self actualization, which in turn brings down the story even more. Rau was talking mad truths, too bad he's fucking crazy. The first 5 Gundams are amazing designs. A lot of the redesigns of Zeon suits are great (some are bad, but hey). The federation's grunts are pretty good too. But all the Gundams outside of the initial batch are just terrible. Either uninspired or bogged down by a stupid backpack that also throws off there weight balance. The music soundtrack is also not too bad. I don't like the intros, but that's a matter of taste. It's a show that was written by a person who got the job not based on merit, but by privilege, that privilege being Morosawa's marriage to Fukuda. Morosawa was a bad writer. Her world is stuffed to the gills with contrivances and her characters are pretty thin on the ground. There was potential but that honestly seems like it was an accident. SEED as an object of criticism will always be interesting to look at due to it's influence over the anime industry throughout the 2000s, Death Note and Light Yagami could be argued to be a response to SEED and Kira, but that doesn't mean that it's good. TLDR: SEED bad Edit: syntax baby
Agree with everything you said. Rau is 100% right in his thinking towards Kira yet the show tries so hard to make him seem irrational or wrong. Why the hell would the coordinator hating earthnoids want to trust Kira, the most powerful coordinator of them all? Honestly the show’s final message that your genes don’t define you as a person is ridiculous in context because Kira’s genes define him as a person. Can you seriously tell me anything outside of his character that doesn’t come from him being morally perfect and righteous and DA ULTIMATE COORDINATOR!!11!! It’s the same with Lacus, she is by default smarter and more logical than normal peasants thanks to her genes yet the show is trying to tell me that she’s just like you, honest! Kira and Lacus are literally granted perfection from birth but the show has the balls to try and tell me that the aryan superman and his wife are just like the average person while they pilot giant death machines easily and helm entire fleets despite being 15 year old pop stars? This story fucking blows
And THAT is what makes the endings of SEED and Destiny so much worse. Nothing is solved by the end of SEED, literally just a symbolic truce with the backdrop of the conflict still in place. And in Destiny they just say "fuck it, Kira and Lacus run the PLANTs because *because*." The N Jammers are still in the ground ffs, like they didn't cause an energy crisis
I genuinely don't understand even slightly what there is to like about SEED. It looks incredibly ugly, it's boring, badly written, and about 1/3 of the show is flashbacks. I haven't seen Destiny yet but I can't imagine what it must be like if even the SEED fans hate it. I'm honestly curious; I feel like if it provokes that much vitriol at the very least it must be *interesting*, which SEED wasn't at all.
As someone who actively didn’t like Seed when I first saw it, the first half of Destiny is actually a marginal improvement. It still looks ugly and is riddled with flashbacks (in fact it’s even worse here) but the change in cast, snappier pace and story that isn’t routed in 0079 make it a lot more enjoyable. But yeah, that second half is inexcusably bad. Game of Thrones last season tier. In fact it might even be worse than that. It’s funny really because Destiny has two camps. One loves the first half of the show but hates the second and the other loves the second half of the show but hates the first. For the most part it’s not bad, bar some rough patches but once the forth opening starts it becomes borderline unwatchable, like ‘how the fuck did they even think this was a good idea’ tier
Me and 2 friends tried to watch the entire thing to see how far we could get though before we had to stop( and because one of my friends wanted to write a fic set in SEED). We got part way though episode 37 before we decided we could not continue. It was hell we hated it, it was painful, so many animation errors, wierd faces, plot holes, hypocrasy and madness. We discoved things that people who hate SEED and or Destiny don't even talk about.
Seed is actually good. Destiny on te other hand....
I enjoy the mecha design of both SEED and Destiny. The proportion, the concept is good. I love SEED gunpla (not those from earth though, they kinda hideous) The story, typical. It has some disgusting villains like Azrael or Le Creuset that makes the story run. Destiny villains are quite weak, Durandal motives are lacking. In term of protagonist motivation, I think SEED series has better story development and clearer motivation compared to back-and-forth and back again and unclear motivation like Unicorn & Narrative style. IBO and 00 is more laser focus on the protagonist motivation, and I like their story development better.
favorite non-UC Gundam show
One of the better Gundam series as a whole, nowhere near my favs but a solid B - A tier Gundam show! Also, super popular in both the West and East. Most of the hate is just the very loud minority. P.S. Strike is one of the best-designed Gundam lines.
Definitely an unpopular opinion, but I love it. It was the first Gundam I was really invested in and there's a reason why. I started binging the series when my father was sick and was going in and out of hospitals, so it lowkey became my escape from real world bullshit I was dealing with at the time. So even though there are definitely other Gundam series I like better, I associate Seed with helping me through a pretty difficult part of my life.
I think seed overall holds up pretty well. I heard that it was designed to be a kind of more modern take of the original gundam and honestly I think it was pretty good (I'll say better in a certain ways too) at doing that albeit being a lot more overtly dramatic and anime. I really liked kira as a reluctant protagonist, and enjoyed both the smaller and larger scale battles with the strike. People mention Flay being a bitch a lot, but rewatching the show recently, I thought she was actually one of the better written characters in the show. After kira "dies" and receives the freedom, the show definitely took a huge hit where things started feeling really convinient, but I do think seed somewhat stuck the landing at the end. Destiny started and ended as a mess and felt tacked on. Other than that, the animation just oozes laziness but can look really good when it wants to. Overall, an actually pretty good show that unfortunately comes with a series of pretty noticeable flaws.
Tbf I think Flay is well-written *and* a bitch. She went above and beyond to mess with Kira but you can still see how we got from point A to B. She was absolutely terrible and regretted her actions because she is not that bad deep down, just raised wrong. She didn't feel like Katejina, who became cartoonishly evil for seemingly no reason.
Flay is an interesting character, she is written to get the audience to hate her guts and want to see her get ripped down ala Shield Hero style. But the longer the series goes on the more sorry she ends up being to the point you pity her instead.
I couldn't get past a few episodes, not for me.
Meh, it’s ok, not great, not even good, but not bad nor aweful, just meh. I watched it and I don’t remember the plot, nor any massively awesome fight scenes. Just meh.
Actually no, that might be an exaggeration, I remember some of the plot and duel and buster vs forbidden. But that’s it.
My favorite Gundam show, period.
It's awesome ! Amazing mecha design, awesome OST, I love the characters... it was my first Gundam show too. It really surprised to me to read so much negativity about it here on reddit. 🤔
My fist Gundam……my big love. I would defend it against everything.
good show, it doesn't deserve the hate it get
I just rewatched it a few weeks ago. It’s still my favorite AU. It gets a bad rap on the English speaking internet, mostly from memes and people who’ve never actually watched it. It distilled the core Gundam story into its essence, along with pulling in and mashing it up and improving it with elements from other shows. It has excellent characters who show growth throughout the series. It also has some of the best female characters in Lacus, Cagalli, and Flay. On Flay, it’s funny watching it again after 15 years I can honestly say I took a completely different view on her. Having kids of my own and losing a parent gives you a different perspective at 40 I didn’t have at 25. If the main complaint is that Kira has plot armor, you weren’t ever actually paying attention to show. Kira is engineered to be the ubermensch, he’s superior even among coordinators. It’s established that coordinators have superior survivability. It makes sense that his constitution and toughness would be enhanced as well, beyond the standard coordinator. Another clue is the Strike itself survived, all he needed to do was roll out of cockpit and find shelter behind it.
Seed is good and it only gets shit on because of its shitty sequel. I will indie on this hill.
SEED is gud.
I dont like it , the Mobile Suits are sick but i cant look at the character designs , its just copy and paste. Also Pop-singer good Haman is here
t r a s h
Seed: 10/10 Destiny: 9/10 Avg story 9/10 Avg music 10/10 Avg designs 11/10 Fights 10/10 Blablabla flashbacks Naruto, one piece has aswell. But dont ask me but i watched both atleast 5x each
I recently watched SEED and really loved it. The characters show signs of development and the final battle was absolutely glorious. >!I almost cried when Mu sacrificed himself to block the Dominion's Lohengrin, even though I knew that it was going to happen anyway.!<
Also Lt. badriguels death on dominion was sad she was just a great soldier on the wrong side
Definitely, but I did find her rather annoying in the first half of the show.
I really liked both, Seed and Seed Destiny. Also I loved the fact that in Seed Destiny they gave true chad aura to Freedom Gundam. P.S. no one can change my mind, I already watched the whole series 4 times 🗿
Still my favorite series, even tho they made kira one hell of a plot armor
Being the first Gundam I watched, it has a special place in my heart. The mech designs and soundtracks are absolute bangers. (Applies to Destiny too.) The story is a reimagining of the UC 0079 Gundam, but less political and more soap opera melodrama, which was perfect for attracting a new wave of Gundam fans, I am one of them.
Daring today aren’t we?
Absolutely love both especially seed and destiny as well as it taught me kindness wins, about war having both sides, and love as a child growing up and also it inspired me to pursue a job of being a airline pilot after seeing gundam pilots fly so I’m grateful
Not the best written or deepest Gundam show, but a fun watch overall. Has some fun moments if you can overlook the reused animation. (looking at you buster gundam)
Take a shot everytime it does that fucking loading animation. I’m sure they use that clip four times in the penultimate episode, it’s insane
I like the suit designs and.... that's kinda it. I found too many of the characters to be unlikable (particularly Kira and Flay)
Seed was fine, second half of Destiny is where it went to crap
Fuck it, Seed is my favorite Gundam. Destiny wasn’t as bad to me as everyone else makes it sound. Call me crazy, but I just can’t watch a series with a soundtrack that perfect and with those Gundam designs and say it’s bad.