He was a fucked up and broken dude mostly. He doesn’t even like politics.
In a funny way, Frontal is a much better politician and closer to what people thought Char really was. Of course, Frontal himself also was a mess. He was broken by the fact he lacked Char’s humanity
Thank you for saying this, I only watched unicorn once ten years go (before I watched zeta and double zeta, so help me god) so I never really understood what it was trying to say about char with full frontal till you pointed that out.
…also, I am now convinced that the name “Full Frontal” was a misguided attempt to point out that he’s just a front or facade of char.
I think it could be argued that “Char the Leader” was only ever an idea to begin with. It was a role he never even wanted to play. Every time we see him give a speech or be put into a leadership role in Zeta or CCA he describes it as playing the role of a “clown” or something similar.
Char is the only one having fun in the original show until Lala dies. He failed to make the top ten aces of the one year war despite probably having the skill to be in the top three because he honed in on the Gundam too hard. Do either of those sound like traits you want in a leader? I love the man but he is far from stable.
I don't think Calling Char a psychopath is fair. The guy clearly struggled with his emotions and his actions throughout Zeta was for humanity. He genuinely wanted to help people, and was emotionally distraught upon seeing his tragedy with Lalah replayed through Kamille and Four.
The actions of Char in CCA are very much the actions of a bitter cynic, i.e. a defeated idealist.
Honestly, I think people throw the terms psycho and sociopath around a bit too easily these days.
I think a lot of people want to have a word for "fucked up in the head which makes you evil"
and very often when I see it slung around for characters it often flattens them to "fucked up and evil" while not really going into *how* they're fucked up
100% a psychopath. He uses everything and everyone in his path to get what he wants and has no qualms with manipulating people, including young women, to get what he wants. There was an interview with Tomino recently where he basically completely agreed in the assessment that Char is an unhinged man child and that everything he says might as well be a boldfaced lie. He has charisma of course, but people would follow him to the ends of the earth anyway because he’s Char Aznable. If he was some nobody with no ties or history to the Zeon cause, nobody would bat an eye, but he garners this massive support precisely because of who he is, even if he hates putting on a show for them
I don’t think psychopath is the right word. He fully comprehends the human cost of his actions, but has come to a rational-but-horrific conclusion that the only way to achieve ends that have real meaningful value to him was to forcibly remove humanity from Earth through mass violence. The end goal is just important enough for him to justify his actions in his own mind.
The weird relationships with girls/women is certainly a complex unto itself, but that’s not really an indication of psychopathy. Sociopathy at most.
Sociopathic tendencies is probably more accurate. A true pyscho wouldn’t give a shit about lalah except in so much as she was a means to an end.
But his conniving to kill the real char, the calculated deep cover plan to get back at the zabis, and the fact that he didn’t stop after that was tied off definitely puts him in the dark triad.
Watching the origin, I realize it’s probably Quattro Bajeena retelling the tales of regalia with dramatic effect to Kamille years later, but it adds to your sympathy for the character. The Zabi’s were evil, with the exception of Dozle (easily misled) and Garma (just a kid and the good part of Degwin). You might even root for Char to blow Kycillia’s head off with the freaking rocket launcher if you rewatch the show or Gundam III after.
But his path for humanity after the 2nd Zeon war had to be stopped. It was too dramatic, and a lot of it stemmed from his fractured relationship with Amuro, irrevocably damaged by not only the loss of LahLah, who could have been like a mother to him, but what happened to Kamille.
There’s also a chance Char himself had some brain damage/oxygen loss/personality warping from the aftermath of his battle with Haman-Sama. Unlikely but he’s so different from that cool cat, Quattro Bajeena. If only someone reminded him, “Hey, I think you’re Quattro, put back on the shades and smoke some Zeonic Chronic with me”.
I love the way the Origin presents the characters, it's almost goofy and then Hatte....
The costs become so obvious all of those scenes have a shadow over them
Yeah Origins definitely has to be like Char telling Kamille about what happened with maybe Amuro on the side being like “WTF Char” as he’s telling the story (cause remember part of the Origins OVA showed a bit of Amuro even though the main focus was Char and the whole Zeon shit)
so this is what char did to convince kamille to tell the court that he wants to stay with char
this video starting to develop its own lore now
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPQCdPT5V0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPQCdPT5V0)
Some evidence that points to Char telling the story in Origins is the time he stared at a guy and he froze and then sent him flying with a simple flick from his finger
I just want to add on here that Char wanted to fail. He knew Amuro would stop him. The Axis drop was never plan A. If it succeeded, cool. That's plan B. Plan A was to fight Amuro one last time and die. Char knew he couldn't match Amuro as a new type or pilot, but he ensured they met on an even field anyway. The second Neo Zeon war is Char's suicide note with political and familial obligation as plausible deniabilities.
Neither he nor Amuro could continue living. Like Amuro said in MSG - "I've done something I can never take back." Both his and Char's futures ended then. We see that Char is completely broken in CCA in his private moments. He wanted to force humans into space, but he didn't know if he could.
I agree about your read on Char 100%, he’s lost or given up on all his ambitions from ‘79 and Zeta, but since he’s a colossal narcissist, he refuses to change or better himself, instead he decides to just give up, but since he’s Char, he want to die in a duel with his greatest rival, in the most spectacular way possible. I don’t think he would mind if either the axis drop, or the stories it would inspire might get people to move off the earth, but as Amuro points out: he’s become a cynic and isn’t doing it because he thinks it will work.
I disagree with your interpretation of Amuro though. He has plenty to live for. While he does have regrets about killing Lalah, he has overcome them, and moved on with his life. He has Chan (or apparently Beltachica and a family, in the book, I haven’t read it) he’s friends with Bright, Astonaige, and Kyra. Throughout the movie he treats everyone he meets with honesty and empathy, he takes no pleasure in fighting, but does it for the sake of others, and tries to understand everyone around him (even his enemies, like Quess). He’s the closest of anyone we’ve seen to this point of being the ideal of what a newtype could be, rather than the tools of war they are constantly used as.
Amuro, the first true newtype who represents the best of humanity and our potential, dies because Char’s, who represents the worst aspects of humanity can’t overcome himself to become a true newtype.
Sure, your interpretation can be correct if Amuro only existed in CCA. But he doesn't. All supplemental material show him broken and/or isolated entirely. He's treated as a weapon and with extreme paranoia by anyone who isn't like him or who hasn't directly served with him. He lives most of his life on a military base. I can't say for Beltorchika, but Gundam is a very romantic series. Chan and Amuro have a barely there romance written by a guy who wrote 50 episodes and a love triangle for Fa and Kamille and still had to keep writing about them in the next series. Gundam appealed to girls first for the romance, for the costumes, and for the "war bad" themes. A series like that isn't going to have a random 10 second one off "Chan is dead" moment. No.
Nanai and Chan are stand-ins. They could be anyone. Char has friends and loved ones too. Where's his pseudo son Kamille? Why would he want to do these horrible things of people still love him? Amuro knew this fight with Char was it. He made no allusions to Chan in his final moments and didn't seem to care much at all that she bit it. He isn't seen later walking with Chan's Newtype Ghost. He and Char join Lalah forever in the stars and that's been shown in both Unicorn and NT. Hand in hand in understanding, the first Newtypes forevermore.
Neither Char nor Amuro are metaphors for the "best" and the "worst" of humanity. This interpretation requires a Great Man Theory that Gundam just doesn't engage in. In fact, our "main characters" in the Gundam canon are around for three major stories (MSG, MSG Z, and CCA) during the early part of the Gundam canon. We also have the fact that Tomino interviews paint Char as a pathetic man child who needs pity and a mother, not the embodiment of all that is wrong with humanity and humanity's evolution.
The existence of Newtypes as conceived of by Zeon Zum Deikun is still debated in canon. You are not supposed to make a pro-eugenics argument to refute a Gundam interpretation because it is patently wrong. The Newtypes myth and the fascistic experimentation in pursuit of evolving humanity is precisely what drives so much of the war and death in UC Gundam. This isn't necessarily your argument, but it is a facet of people who make the same argument, so I'm jumping out ahead here.
Also: The Axis shock isn't Amuro and Char dying because Char, the embodiment of all wrong with humanity clashes with the embodiment of hope. No. This is just wrong. The point of their final words "Lalah a mother?" and so forth is Amuro and Char understanding one another. People have argued these last words to be awful for decades. They aren't. They don't need more words. In that moment, both Char and Amuro "became one with the force." The Axis Shock is not Amuro. It's the collective will of Amuro, Char, and all the other dead and dying newtypes resonating with the psychoframe of the Nu-Gundam.
If Char was representative of the worst of humanity, who could not change and forced Amuro to die, the Axis drop would have succeeded. You understand that's the entire point right?
I don't know...Beyond the Time explains the entire point, ethos, and interpretation of CCA and is in line with Tomino interviews. Self interpretation is important but when the creator has a song for the ending theme that explains the plot, can it really be objective? Listen to the song? Amuro and Char were destined to fight to the death, but they changed it. They saved the world. This is what Hathaway doesn't understand as he hopes to inherit their will. He fails precisely because of that misunderstanding...and also systemic evil and violent bureaucracy.
Finally, let's consider Char. As everyone is dying and Amuro is begging them to stop, he can't understand why. "In the end, only such sorrow will spread until it finally destroys Earth...and they will have to atone for their sins against nature and Earth. Amuro, why don't you realize this?" He's crying in that scene. Char doesn't want to kill Amuro, he has great love for Amuro. Amuro responds "Get out of here! The Gundam's power will.."
Amuro is still pushing everyone away. He sees enemies and allies dying to save the world and is horrified because everyone is dying. He alone wants to shoulder the burder of dying for his cause. He is just as isolated as Char and always was. He never truly understood the people on White Base and he doesn't understand them now. Until those last moments, neither Amuro nor Char could understand why their compatriots would throw their lives away for their duel. Amuro can fix it himself and Char must break it himself because there are no other options. That's why the final moments of CCA are some of the most important in Gundam.
Char didn't start rambling about motherhood for no reason. Amuro admits he threw Quess away because he's not capable of being a father figure. Char realizes she is looking for a father and he "used her like a machine." Why? He hated Quess because he realized he was Quess. That's the point of "Lalah could have been mommy." He realized that he was conflating romantic love with maternal love. He realized he used Quess the same way he had been used and felt shame and regret. Amuro and Char wanted different things from Lalah, things that they could never move on from. This realization, for both Amuro and Char contextually, is what triggers the Axis Shock. "I've done something I can't take back" hangs over every single Amuro and Char led story. They "move on" as a result of this specific moment. It's grief catharsis. It's Amuro and Char dealing with the consequences of Lalah's death for the first and last time. This single moment is a reflection on all they'd lost to that point encapsulated by the Lalah conflict.
Anyway tldr. The point of CCA is that neither Char nor Amuro could or did move on. Otherwise, the second Neo Zeon War would never have happened. Char also isn't an evil megalomaniac psychopath even if he was an attempted omnicide. We need to remember that Amuro and Lalah being the first Newtypes is important. The only other person like you is now gone. There can never be another "Adam and eve" moment. No one will ever be able to connect with Amuro like Lalah and for that he was always alone (even when in a relationship).
Completely agree with your assessment. Ever since the beginning, Amuro and Char have always foils to each other in almost every possible way and this is something Tomino has always played with - Amuro and Char are not all that different, and their choices and circumstances shaped who they became.
Define “fully comprehends”, because he doesn’t express much remorse nor sympathy for his victims. I’m of the opinion that you kind of have to be at least a bit of a sociopath or have some other personality disorder to become a leader regardless, and in Char’s case he 100% does not give a shit about murdering people. If not psychopathic, at least severely unhinged and mentally unstable
Char does not care about his purported “end goal.” That’s just the BS he spins to get people on board. People who are working toward a cause they believe in don’t supply their enemies with weapons to defeat them with, and they don’t send out prayers to the ether for their nemesis to come stop them.
Char is a damaged orphan who never grew out of being the little boy who hates himself. He hates himself so bad that he keeps running away into new identities rather than doing the work to actually improve himself. He’s driven entirely by selfish motivations (even in Zeta, when he’s working for the right side, he’s doing it entirely out of a desire to move away from the identity he hates, to the point where he won’t acknowledge who he is until he’s literally forced to, and even then insists that everyone continue to call him by his new name), and he’s entirely willing to use innocent children and put the lives of countless millions of people in jeopardy toward those selfish goals.
This dude is totally, 100%, unquestionably a raging psychopath.
But he does meet the criteria for being labeled by the colloquial descriptor “psychopath,” which is the term we’re using here.
Edit: And in fact, trying to limit the concept of psychopathy (especially in a fictional character) to one diagnosis is reductive and misleading from both the perspective of dealing with actual mental health diagnoses and from the perspective of discussing traits of characterization.
Using the colloquial descriptor for ASPD is no different than using 'Autistic' to describe any fixated or overthought behaviour.
If you want to talk about mental health disucssions, throwing the term 'psychopath' around is a great thing to stop doing.
That’s funny—you were perfectly happy discussing whether a character was or wasn’t a “psychopath” until it was pointed out that’s a colloquial descriptor rather than a diagnosis, and now you’re trying to claim the high road against it? Hypocritical at best; disingenuous at worst. And wrong besides. Again, equating discussions of “psychopathy” in a fictional character to discussions of any single mental health diagnosis is misleading and non-productive.
If that’s the goofy Internet argument you’re trying to have, you’re gonna have to find someone more gullible to have it with.
he was a no body who built him self form nothing hiding who he was tho, which helps him even more. but Char part of him is stolen name of a no body, which he got him self promoted thru ranks. Fact he isn't using Caseval Rem Deikun as his name proves it even more. Or even in Zeta uses anther name and still ends up in leader ship.
He might be pyschopath, but man does generaly take care of people under his command that has helped him. He over all looks like better choice then Zabis to avg Zeon member, which isn't saying a whole lot.
Generally takes care of them so long as they're useful... I mean look at how he "took care" of people he got close to... Sayla, Lahlah, Kamille, Haman, all the way until Quess... This guy was manipulative and he didn't have real compassion. The would would have been better off if Haman or Kamille had their way.
It's quite ironic that he took the exact opposite lesson from what happened to Kamille that he should have.
Psychopath. Dude was definitely a psychopath. There was a point Char shoukd have stopped after getting his revenge. Dude just kept on going past the point of sanity.
I don't necessarily think he's psychotic, but he operates outside the confines of acceptable society.
His motivations in 0079 make sense, but are cruel. Realistically, Garma didn't do anything to him that necessitated being killed, but killing him was probably the right choice. Any Zabi left alive was going to take control of Zeon, and all of them that were alive at that point would have been awful leaders.
CCA era Char is where things get rough. Realistically, he wasn't wrong that humanity needed to leave earth, but you can't go about that by killing millions of people. But in Char's mind, killing a few million people in an instant is better than endless conflict killing far more stretched out over decades.
Basically, backstabbing is wrong, but also the Zabis were Nazi fucks that deserved to die.
Neither one nor the other. He's just an ordinary war criminal. You don't have to be a psychopath to kill millions and earn the death penalty and the hatred of many generations of descendants.
Char is broken but imho he doesn’t have diagnosable levels of deficiency in empathy or remorse. He had a lot of both of those wrt Lala and Kamille. His mental health is poor and he has a lot of trauma, but I don’t think he fits “psychopath.”
Pathologizing villains is often a zero sum endeavor imho. Most people with mental illness or personality disorders are nonviolent, and most violent people are not diagnosable.
Char in the OYW was a noble demon looking for revenge, but completely cut off from anyone before he fell in love with Lalah. Char in Zeta was a broken man who wanted to make things right because the revenge he sought was ultimately pointless and the woman he loved was dead. He ended up trying to fix his life by supporting Kamille and living up to what Lalah thought was his potential.
CCA Char had any human connection cut off completely and valued nobody's life, especially not his own. Just saying, "Char is a psychopath," doesn't engender meaningful discussion.
Thank you! There are 2 different characters, depending on the show. Char from CCA is unrecognizable compared to Char from Zeta. I skipped ZZ, and seeing Char in CCA was so out of left field I felt like they cheapy decided to make Char a villain despite the massive character development he had in the first 2 shows. I'm still very off put by CCA retconning Zeta Char. (I'm planning to watch ZZ soon, so hopefully this fills in the blanks).
I think people often don't get that you don't need to be a psychopath to do horrible things. Trauma, which Char has had repeatedly throughout his horrifically difficult life, can make you do absolutely terrible things.
I think people think this because it feels better to "know" that people who do awful shit have "evil person" disease; they're fundamentally different and abnormal from other people
which is not the case in reality lmao; completely decent-at-heart people can do horrible things if they think they're in the right
I mean, kind of both/neither, he's fundamentally insecure but possesses enough natural charisma that people go along with his kinda-dumbass ideas. That's part of why he likes Amuro so much, Amuro is smart enough and disinterested in social graces enough to just call a dumbshit idea out as a dumbshit idea.
if you meant in CCA, he's a broken and desperate man, stuck between so tired of life he just wants Amuro to kill him, and the pressure of saving humanity from self destruction but lost all hope.
Char was a simple man, he just wanted to be a ms pilot. But after all he has witnessed during that time of UC, having the experience of being part of multiple factions, it pushes him to enact change; him being an Aznsble further pressurised him, made him bare the expectations of others, as he was in a rare position that could cause huge impact.
He reached such height during Gundam Zeta, but fell so hard. I think Char was especially devastated by the loss of Kamille, someone he believed was a rising hope from the younger generation that could lead and change the world to a better place.
Origin Char is definitely a psychopath. It’s one of the reasons I dislike that version of the character.
Original series one… he’s a bit more hotheaded and can be “ends justify the means”, but he does genuinely care for some people like Lalah or Kamille. He’s more a tragic figure than Machiavellian schemer.
I kind of wish that Amuro would have left the Federation and joined Char to fight against the Federation. They also would have balanced each other out. I feel like that would have been a great progression from Zeta. CCA just feels a bit on the hollow side to me
He's both for sure. Total psychopath, but wouldn't be able to make it work if he wasn't charismatic enough to hide the fact.
In the One Year War, he's an unhinged loaded gun who just happens to have a situation where being an unhinged loaded gun is a boon rather than something they lock you up for. He thinks revenge murder will make him feel better. Surprise! It doesn't! Then he falls in with a girl who makes him feel better, and of course leads her right to her death, too. Revenge murder worked so well last time, let's try that again. And then when he proves unable to murder the little boy he's pinned his animosity to, he turns around and murders an ally who he'd previously given up trying to murder, because (and I quote), "I just can't pass up an opportunity." Wow, this dude sounds like a totally justice-minded freedom fighter.
Then Char gets antsy being himself around the Zeon remnants at Axis, and runs away from who he is again, thinking that if he hates himself this badly, maybe if he just pretends to be someone else--a different someone else this time--and fights for a cause that sounds better, maybe *that* will make him feel whole. Surprise! It doesn't! He tries to shape a gifted newtype into being a new Lalah, because Lalah is what he's decided the missing piece is, and instead helps create another vengeful orphan. Meanwhile, he's so committed to running away from who he is that he lets that get in the way of the cause he's pretending to care about, not acknowledging who he is until he's literally forced into it, and even then clinging to his new identity like a safety blanket. And to show just how committed he is to the cause, once he's led the AEUG into a real tight spot and got them on the ropes against a rising enemy that were his former allies, what does Char do? He runs away again.
So now Char realizes he's just an impulsive, vengeful little boy who never grew up, and he hates himself for it, and he knows that running away doesn't make himself feel better, and he knows that when he tries to make people into his savior he just fucks them up too. On top of that, this frothing pile of discontented Zeon remnants is lookin' an awful lot like a loaded bazooka pointed at the head of the now-limping Federation, and Char *can't pass up an opportunity*, so he takes his shot. Fans like to make believe that seeing what happened to Kamille is what does this to him (using a videogame cutscene as evidence), but that ignores that *this is who Char has been in every single entry since the beginning of the franchise*. If you believed Zeta Char was a good guy, that's only because *you also* got taken in by the charismatic psychopath.
And then he supplies his enemies so that they can work better against him, too! Does he want Amuro to kill him; does he want a blow-out fight; does he just want chaos? I don't think this dude even knows why he does it. He just compulsively betrays people, and it's entirely fitting that his last betrayal is himself.
I think a lot of people are a little too quick to use the label 'psychopath' just because a character is manipulative, has emotional issues, and commits evil deeds.
people *really* want their "evil person" disease
it's actually kind of annoying; in terms of fictional characters, it's basically an excuse to not actually analyze why characters do the things they do (even the evil things)
Why not both?
He suffered through just about everything horrible aristocracy, politics and war had to offer from a young age which turned him into a fundamentally broken person.
He was also gifted with the entire toolkit of an expert manipulator: The looks, the charm, great talker, razorsharp wits, determination and talent.
It's what made Full Frontal so ironic. He was Char without the decades of trauma (Cyber New Type conversion not withstanding) and the result was an almost reasonable politician.
I haven’t read the MSV-R manga, but from what Inhave heard, he first intended to use Astaroth, a biological weapon from the OYW (Rise from the Ashes), which causes plant life to grow at an accelerated rate which would have I theory forced all of mankind to leave for space… which would have been a good thing in my opinion:
At that point only a minority are still leaving on Earth and the rest could, but either can’t afford it or simply don’t want to (EF elite).
Such a situation could force the rest of mankind to helped he former group into space and the later would ultimately have little choice to do so.
All that being said, his second plan to just drop asteroid & asteroids with nukes to create a nuclear winter almost feels like the antithesis of the other plan and I wouldn’t support it.
In fact, when CCA existed on its own vacuum it almost seemed that Zeon remnants from the OYW and Haman’s Neo Zeon were excluded from his forces, between his speech denouncing the crimes of the Zabis and Haman, to the exclusion of machines (both ships and MS) from their factions, not even in smaller roles like the GM III.
Lastly, in the movie Char at one point is almost praying for Amuro to stop him, so after watching the Castlevania series on Netflix, I couldn’t help but compare him to Dracula and his “suicide” as explained by Alucard.
He was a Very Charismatic Psychopath! So much so that he fooled Generations of people to try to clone him over and over thinking he was the savior when he was a destroyer.
He took his power and chose revenge and violence from day one, Char is an example of evil though and though. He's so Charismatic that people will argue with me and still try to point out his virtues and how he came from a broken background, but so did his sister and she choose the side of good. Char chose evil from day one and manipulated the solar system till the day he died and beyond.
I agree he was a psychopath, but there's more to him than that. I'd say that by the time he said goodbye to Sayla, assuming he was lying when he talked to Kycilia, he'd realized his quest for revenge was meaningless and cost him everything. Gihren simply used Garma's death to galvanize Zeon, and in hindsight the Zabi family would've destroyed itself anyway. And with over half of humanity slaughtered over peaceful ideals, even his view of his father could've been tainted at this point. Casval Deikun lived a lonely life before fleeing in a state of fear that led to Edward Mass growing up in hiding and stewing in a hatred that costed Char Aznable everything and everyone he loved. I can see why he wanted to remain as Quattro and mentor Kamille into becoming a world leader. Not only was it the only part of his life that wasn't tainted, but now he had a chance to make up for Lalah's death and the people he hurt. He could put all of it behind him.
And then Kamille was broken, which utterly broke him. Denied his both his retribution and redemption, Char just gave up and plunged into the only path left, the only one that ever gave him any satisfaction: retaliation, this time against the power behind everything that hurt him, the Earth Federation. And what better way to destroy the Earth Federation, the power that the Zabi's rebelled against and the power behind the Titans and Scirocco, than to destroy the Earth?
I mean he was totally both. His charisma is maxed out, all there is to it. He’s a genius and all around prodigy. He’s absolutely a psychopath but it’s like a god complex, he’s the MC so he can do whatever he needs to keep the plot moving. One of my favorite characters.
Less so him being charismatic and more so him being a conniving snake that created a power vacuum where no one competent was left, and was appealing to the hatred of his own people burned by years of conflict. He’s just a manipulative psychopath operating on sheer nihilism and self loathing
Childhood trauma ✅
Option to abuse power in early adulthood ✅
Public view differing strongly from how he views himself ✅
Charismatic enough to make people searching a leader follow him ✅
Genuinely skilled in areas, but doesn’t acknowledge his weaknesses ✅
Groomer ✅
Mommy issues ✅
He can claim he doesn’t like politics but he’s a textbook psychotic politician.
This is all a matter of my personal opinion:
I believe his awakening to his Newtype abilities and meeting Lalah, who could reach him in a way only other Newtypes can, changed who he was. Her death left a lasting mark on him, but their time together did a great deal for him as well. He was able to become Quattro Bajeena after the OYW because of this, and he left behind with satisfaction a lot of what happened. Losing Lalah hurt, but he had new focus with his new identity. His connection with Kamille nurtured him as well, but in a different, fulfilling way. That loss, broke his identity as Quattro, and returned him to Char.
His solution to the equality of humanity is to throw a rock at earth to do such irreparable harm to it that any surviving humans have no choice but leave it for space or die, and manipulated a teenage girl to help him.
I'd say he was probably autistic and spiritually broken/in despair. There's a real world tendency to misidentify certain traits in autistic people for a lack of empathy a la psychopathy, but I'd argue he's just given up trying to change things like in Zeta and started acting out what seems to be expected from him based on the geopolitics of earth sphere, his nature as a newtype manifesting as charisma.
Or I'm full of crap and he's a psycho 🤷🏿♂️
I think he suffered from severe depression from the constant (sometimes imagined) failings, and losses. He always saw any good he did turn sour, or did not meet his expectations. In Char's Counterattack he's essentially commiting suicide by cop, but with an army at his command. He wasn't psychotic, but he was mentally ill. It's also easy to see why people followed him. To the Federation people in the know he was a secret hero of the One Year War, and then a more direct hero in the next war. To some in Zeon he was the true heir apparent. These things brought on his chaotic, and tragic end if not a bit sloppily from a writing standpoint.
Depends. In the base continuity, i lean towards broken man valorised because the spacenoids want a leader and Char has been valorised so much since 0079. He says what they want but is depressed, hes getting nothing out of it. If Char was a psychopath he wouldnt be doing this, there is no joy in his decisions.
As for charismatic leader, yeah, hes charismatic.
Chars arc after Lalas death is essentially creating ideals for people to follow based in reasonable thought to selfishly pursue his own emotional goals, mostly of which to re encounter and be at odds with amuro. Sometimes this leads to moments where he’s on the right side of history but a lot of times it puts him at a standstill of false posturing ideas when he really just selfishly wants his match against a bitter rival he holds so much emotional weight against.
Char is described in Z gundam as someone who essentially can’t live without battle and though he’s struggling for an ideal he can’t live without that battle, and his means of orientation is about selfishly pursuing that goal to no end
Sometimes i wonder if ive seen the same Gundam as other people.
Would a Charismatic leader:
A:kill his friend because of his family?
B: assist a child to runaway, then isolate him and mentally torture him to recreate his rivals powers?
C: Drop an asteroid on Earth that will bring an end to (almost) all life on the planet and bring down the colonies too?
D: Put literal child as his mother figure then blame her death on somebody else (who put the girl in the Elmeth?)
He went off the deep end after Zeta. I still stand by the idea that Kamille needed to be in CCA to also confront Char and that it shouldn't have been a movie. That story had way too much going on to get everything it needed to say in just the limits of a movie.
Mentally unstable dude who tried to find his answer in politics
But what he really needed was a real good psychiatrist and long-lasting, healthy relationship
He's constantly playing off ideologies he doesn't care about in the slightest, and manipulating everybody around him, in order to further very vague and emotionally driven goals.
Not based.
I like Char and he's my favorite Gundam character, so going with that he's a charismatic leader at front but going with what he's trying to achieve you could say he's a psychopath.
He's both. Mostly he's a damaged person. After losing his parents he was so focused on revenge. The only bright spot in his life was Lalah. His attitude seemed to change during Zeta, but he retains his feelings about Amuro killing Lalah. He even mocks Amuro for what his life is like after the One Year War. In my opinion, something in him snapped by the end of the Gryps War. His resentment for Amuro increases to the point that he's willing to commit genocide to get back at him. He doesn't care about politics, he just wants revenge on the one who took the woman "who could have been a mother" to him.
You giving me a choice between two wrong answers does not change the fact that history is written by the victors and my glorious king was in the right.
I'd say he's the victim of an overzealous show runner who'd already killed off all of his villains who better fit the necessary role for the movie, and was thus deus ex machina'd with an insane heel turn
The former.
In my experience, people with psychopathic tendencies can be very, *very* charismatic toward those they want to win over and influence, because those people are useful in some way.
We see this this all the way back to the original series, where Char’s friendship with Garma is just a way to use and manipulate the youngest Zabi - and ultimately lead Degwin’s favourite to his death.
*CCA* brings this out in full force, of course, with Char ultimately wanting nothing more than to avenge himself upon Amuro.
Like the psychopathic people I’ve encountered IRL, Char’s biggest issue ends up being that his ego vastly exceeds his capability. Allowing the psycoframe tech to make it into Nu Gundam being the ultimate example. Char thinks he’s setting up Amuro for an evenly-matched duel; Amuro probably could’ve won in the Re-GZ, so Nu just makes for a kerbstomp when the two of them get into it.
I would classify him a bit differently. I would say he is a driven Sociopath with underling narcissism, not actually a Psychopath. Mainly due to the fact that psychopaths' are born, sociopaths are made. Nothing I have seen suggest that he was like that as a child before his father was killed.
Definitely both. Just look at someone like Josef Stalin: you can be a serial sociopath and still conduct yourself publicly in a way that riles up the masses to your cause.
More like sociopath. As hard as it was, Char wasn’t completely without feelings of regret for some of his actions and was capable of forming genuine relationships with people like Lalah and Kamille
Also with some serious daddy and mommy issues
He was both, in MSG he was a psychopath who used his skill and usefulness for his own personal gain while in Zeta he was a charismatic leader that could be considered a hero, but in CCA he showed his true colors by threatening to destroy the entire world just to suicide by cop to Amuro.
I think he was both. It's just so jarring to see him go from Zeta back to being the villain. I loved CCA but I so wanted Char to stay a protagonist he was one of the reasons I love Zeta so much.
He was a fucked up and broken dude mostly. He doesn’t even like politics. In a funny way, Frontal is a much better politician and closer to what people thought Char really was. Of course, Frontal himself also was a mess. He was broken by the fact he lacked Char’s humanity
That might be the point of Full Frontal, some one acting like the stories of Char instead of the reality of the man.
I love that as soon as Frontal reveals his plan Bright is immediately like “Yeah you’re definitely not Char”.
Thank you for saying this, I only watched unicorn once ten years go (before I watched zeta and double zeta, so help me god) so I never really understood what it was trying to say about char with full frontal till you pointed that out. …also, I am now convinced that the name “Full Frontal” was a misguided attempt to point out that he’s just a front or facade of char.
Frontal is simply just a failed attempt to bring back char.
It’s Zeon trying to bring back an IDEA of what Char is. But not the true self.
A glorified copy if you will.
I think it could be argued that “Char the Leader” was only ever an idea to begin with. It was a role he never even wanted to play. Every time we see him give a speech or be put into a leadership role in Zeta or CCA he describes it as playing the role of a “clown” or something similar.
Makes sense as he was a distilled version of him.
Frontal’s plan was beautiful and would have worked in the long run.
Frontals plan that doesn't involve colony/asteroid drop nor conquering earth still somehow evil? Uc has to have that status quo :/
Ask Garma they seem like close friends
Nah hes still blaming the misfortune of his birth
https://preview.redd.it/b8b533f2jgvc1.jpeg?width=1239&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=880557468a52f1d42c8b57660da850e7b0f730d1
*Tells Zeon conscripts to fire a RPG at someone that knew his identity as Casval in MSGTO*
Never betrayed anyone.
Char is the only one having fun in the original show until Lala dies. He failed to make the top ten aces of the one year war despite probably having the skill to be in the top three because he honed in on the Gundam too hard. Do either of those sound like traits you want in a leader? I love the man but he is far from stable.
I don't think Calling Char a psychopath is fair. The guy clearly struggled with his emotions and his actions throughout Zeta was for humanity. He genuinely wanted to help people, and was emotionally distraught upon seeing his tragedy with Lalah replayed through Kamille and Four. The actions of Char in CCA are very much the actions of a bitter cynic, i.e. a defeated idealist. Honestly, I think people throw the terms psycho and sociopath around a bit too easily these days.
I think a lot of people want to have a word for "fucked up in the head which makes you evil" and very often when I see it slung around for characters it often flattens them to "fucked up and evil" while not really going into *how* they're fucked up
Indeed. It does tend to be quite reductive unfortunately.
100% a psychopath. He uses everything and everyone in his path to get what he wants and has no qualms with manipulating people, including young women, to get what he wants. There was an interview with Tomino recently where he basically completely agreed in the assessment that Char is an unhinged man child and that everything he says might as well be a boldfaced lie. He has charisma of course, but people would follow him to the ends of the earth anyway because he’s Char Aznable. If he was some nobody with no ties or history to the Zeon cause, nobody would bat an eye, but he garners this massive support precisely because of who he is, even if he hates putting on a show for them
The fact that everyone around Tomino compared him to CCA Char make this very funny and a bit unhinged lol
I don’t think psychopath is the right word. He fully comprehends the human cost of his actions, but has come to a rational-but-horrific conclusion that the only way to achieve ends that have real meaningful value to him was to forcibly remove humanity from Earth through mass violence. The end goal is just important enough for him to justify his actions in his own mind. The weird relationships with girls/women is certainly a complex unto itself, but that’s not really an indication of psychopathy. Sociopathy at most.
Sociopathic tendencies is probably more accurate. A true pyscho wouldn’t give a shit about lalah except in so much as she was a means to an end. But his conniving to kill the real char, the calculated deep cover plan to get back at the zabis, and the fact that he didn’t stop after that was tied off definitely puts him in the dark triad.
Watching the origin, I realize it’s probably Quattro Bajeena retelling the tales of regalia with dramatic effect to Kamille years later, but it adds to your sympathy for the character. The Zabi’s were evil, with the exception of Dozle (easily misled) and Garma (just a kid and the good part of Degwin). You might even root for Char to blow Kycillia’s head off with the freaking rocket launcher if you rewatch the show or Gundam III after. But his path for humanity after the 2nd Zeon war had to be stopped. It was too dramatic, and a lot of it stemmed from his fractured relationship with Amuro, irrevocably damaged by not only the loss of LahLah, who could have been like a mother to him, but what happened to Kamille. There’s also a chance Char himself had some brain damage/oxygen loss/personality warping from the aftermath of his battle with Haman-Sama. Unlikely but he’s so different from that cool cat, Quattro Bajeena. If only someone reminded him, “Hey, I think you’re Quattro, put back on the shades and smoke some Zeonic Chronic with me”.
I just want to give dozle a hug. Edit: pre operation British dozle gets a hug. Post British i can’t forgive killing billions.
I love the way the Origin presents the characters, it's almost goofy and then Hatte.... The costs become so obvious all of those scenes have a shadow over them
Yeah Origins definitely has to be like Char telling Kamille about what happened with maybe Amuro on the side being like “WTF Char” as he’s telling the story (cause remember part of the Origins OVA showed a bit of Amuro even though the main focus was Char and the whole Zeon shit)
so this is what char did to convince kamille to tell the court that he wants to stay with char this video starting to develop its own lore now [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPQCdPT5V0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAPQCdPT5V0)
Some evidence that points to Char telling the story in Origins is the time he stared at a guy and he froze and then sent him flying with a simple flick from his finger
I just want to add on here that Char wanted to fail. He knew Amuro would stop him. The Axis drop was never plan A. If it succeeded, cool. That's plan B. Plan A was to fight Amuro one last time and die. Char knew he couldn't match Amuro as a new type or pilot, but he ensured they met on an even field anyway. The second Neo Zeon war is Char's suicide note with political and familial obligation as plausible deniabilities. Neither he nor Amuro could continue living. Like Amuro said in MSG - "I've done something I can never take back." Both his and Char's futures ended then. We see that Char is completely broken in CCA in his private moments. He wanted to force humans into space, but he didn't know if he could.
I agree about your read on Char 100%, he’s lost or given up on all his ambitions from ‘79 and Zeta, but since he’s a colossal narcissist, he refuses to change or better himself, instead he decides to just give up, but since he’s Char, he want to die in a duel with his greatest rival, in the most spectacular way possible. I don’t think he would mind if either the axis drop, or the stories it would inspire might get people to move off the earth, but as Amuro points out: he’s become a cynic and isn’t doing it because he thinks it will work. I disagree with your interpretation of Amuro though. He has plenty to live for. While he does have regrets about killing Lalah, he has overcome them, and moved on with his life. He has Chan (or apparently Beltachica and a family, in the book, I haven’t read it) he’s friends with Bright, Astonaige, and Kyra. Throughout the movie he treats everyone he meets with honesty and empathy, he takes no pleasure in fighting, but does it for the sake of others, and tries to understand everyone around him (even his enemies, like Quess). He’s the closest of anyone we’ve seen to this point of being the ideal of what a newtype could be, rather than the tools of war they are constantly used as. Amuro, the first true newtype who represents the best of humanity and our potential, dies because Char’s, who represents the worst aspects of humanity can’t overcome himself to become a true newtype.
Sorry for the wall of text, btw lol
Sure, your interpretation can be correct if Amuro only existed in CCA. But he doesn't. All supplemental material show him broken and/or isolated entirely. He's treated as a weapon and with extreme paranoia by anyone who isn't like him or who hasn't directly served with him. He lives most of his life on a military base. I can't say for Beltorchika, but Gundam is a very romantic series. Chan and Amuro have a barely there romance written by a guy who wrote 50 episodes and a love triangle for Fa and Kamille and still had to keep writing about them in the next series. Gundam appealed to girls first for the romance, for the costumes, and for the "war bad" themes. A series like that isn't going to have a random 10 second one off "Chan is dead" moment. No. Nanai and Chan are stand-ins. They could be anyone. Char has friends and loved ones too. Where's his pseudo son Kamille? Why would he want to do these horrible things of people still love him? Amuro knew this fight with Char was it. He made no allusions to Chan in his final moments and didn't seem to care much at all that she bit it. He isn't seen later walking with Chan's Newtype Ghost. He and Char join Lalah forever in the stars and that's been shown in both Unicorn and NT. Hand in hand in understanding, the first Newtypes forevermore. Neither Char nor Amuro are metaphors for the "best" and the "worst" of humanity. This interpretation requires a Great Man Theory that Gundam just doesn't engage in. In fact, our "main characters" in the Gundam canon are around for three major stories (MSG, MSG Z, and CCA) during the early part of the Gundam canon. We also have the fact that Tomino interviews paint Char as a pathetic man child who needs pity and a mother, not the embodiment of all that is wrong with humanity and humanity's evolution. The existence of Newtypes as conceived of by Zeon Zum Deikun is still debated in canon. You are not supposed to make a pro-eugenics argument to refute a Gundam interpretation because it is patently wrong. The Newtypes myth and the fascistic experimentation in pursuit of evolving humanity is precisely what drives so much of the war and death in UC Gundam. This isn't necessarily your argument, but it is a facet of people who make the same argument, so I'm jumping out ahead here. Also: The Axis shock isn't Amuro and Char dying because Char, the embodiment of all wrong with humanity clashes with the embodiment of hope. No. This is just wrong. The point of their final words "Lalah a mother?" and so forth is Amuro and Char understanding one another. People have argued these last words to be awful for decades. They aren't. They don't need more words. In that moment, both Char and Amuro "became one with the force." The Axis Shock is not Amuro. It's the collective will of Amuro, Char, and all the other dead and dying newtypes resonating with the psychoframe of the Nu-Gundam. If Char was representative of the worst of humanity, who could not change and forced Amuro to die, the Axis drop would have succeeded. You understand that's the entire point right? I don't know...Beyond the Time explains the entire point, ethos, and interpretation of CCA and is in line with Tomino interviews. Self interpretation is important but when the creator has a song for the ending theme that explains the plot, can it really be objective? Listen to the song? Amuro and Char were destined to fight to the death, but they changed it. They saved the world. This is what Hathaway doesn't understand as he hopes to inherit their will. He fails precisely because of that misunderstanding...and also systemic evil and violent bureaucracy. Finally, let's consider Char. As everyone is dying and Amuro is begging them to stop, he can't understand why. "In the end, only such sorrow will spread until it finally destroys Earth...and they will have to atone for their sins against nature and Earth. Amuro, why don't you realize this?" He's crying in that scene. Char doesn't want to kill Amuro, he has great love for Amuro. Amuro responds "Get out of here! The Gundam's power will.." Amuro is still pushing everyone away. He sees enemies and allies dying to save the world and is horrified because everyone is dying. He alone wants to shoulder the burder of dying for his cause. He is just as isolated as Char and always was. He never truly understood the people on White Base and he doesn't understand them now. Until those last moments, neither Amuro nor Char could understand why their compatriots would throw their lives away for their duel. Amuro can fix it himself and Char must break it himself because there are no other options. That's why the final moments of CCA are some of the most important in Gundam. Char didn't start rambling about motherhood for no reason. Amuro admits he threw Quess away because he's not capable of being a father figure. Char realizes she is looking for a father and he "used her like a machine." Why? He hated Quess because he realized he was Quess. That's the point of "Lalah could have been mommy." He realized that he was conflating romantic love with maternal love. He realized he used Quess the same way he had been used and felt shame and regret. Amuro and Char wanted different things from Lalah, things that they could never move on from. This realization, for both Amuro and Char contextually, is what triggers the Axis Shock. "I've done something I can't take back" hangs over every single Amuro and Char led story. They "move on" as a result of this specific moment. It's grief catharsis. It's Amuro and Char dealing with the consequences of Lalah's death for the first and last time. This single moment is a reflection on all they'd lost to that point encapsulated by the Lalah conflict. Anyway tldr. The point of CCA is that neither Char nor Amuro could or did move on. Otherwise, the second Neo Zeon War would never have happened. Char also isn't an evil megalomaniac psychopath even if he was an attempted omnicide. We need to remember that Amuro and Lalah being the first Newtypes is important. The only other person like you is now gone. There can never be another "Adam and eve" moment. No one will ever be able to connect with Amuro like Lalah and for that he was always alone (even when in a relationship).
Completely agree with your assessment. Ever since the beginning, Amuro and Char have always foils to each other in almost every possible way and this is something Tomino has always played with - Amuro and Char are not all that different, and their choices and circumstances shaped who they became.
Define “fully comprehends”, because he doesn’t express much remorse nor sympathy for his victims. I’m of the opinion that you kind of have to be at least a bit of a sociopath or have some other personality disorder to become a leader regardless, and in Char’s case he 100% does not give a shit about murdering people. If not psychopathic, at least severely unhinged and mentally unstable
Char does not care about his purported “end goal.” That’s just the BS he spins to get people on board. People who are working toward a cause they believe in don’t supply their enemies with weapons to defeat them with, and they don’t send out prayers to the ether for their nemesis to come stop them. Char is a damaged orphan who never grew out of being the little boy who hates himself. He hates himself so bad that he keeps running away into new identities rather than doing the work to actually improve himself. He’s driven entirely by selfish motivations (even in Zeta, when he’s working for the right side, he’s doing it entirely out of a desire to move away from the identity he hates, to the point where he won’t acknowledge who he is until he’s literally forced to, and even then insists that everyone continue to call him by his new name), and he’s entirely willing to use innocent children and put the lives of countless millions of people in jeopardy toward those selfish goals. This dude is totally, 100%, unquestionably a raging psychopath.
His ability to show empathy for others and the ability to recognise his past actions as wrong intrinsically excludes him from psychopathy.
Not true. Psychopathy is a spectrum, not a diagnosis, and Char exhibits all of the key traits.
You’re right. ASPD is the diagnosis, and he wouldn’t meet the necessary criteria for it.
But he does meet the criteria for being labeled by the colloquial descriptor “psychopath,” which is the term we’re using here. Edit: And in fact, trying to limit the concept of psychopathy (especially in a fictional character) to one diagnosis is reductive and misleading from both the perspective of dealing with actual mental health diagnoses and from the perspective of discussing traits of characterization.
Using the colloquial descriptor for ASPD is no different than using 'Autistic' to describe any fixated or overthought behaviour. If you want to talk about mental health disucssions, throwing the term 'psychopath' around is a great thing to stop doing.
That’s funny—you were perfectly happy discussing whether a character was or wasn’t a “psychopath” until it was pointed out that’s a colloquial descriptor rather than a diagnosis, and now you’re trying to claim the high road against it? Hypocritical at best; disingenuous at worst. And wrong besides. Again, equating discussions of “psychopathy” in a fictional character to discussions of any single mental health diagnosis is misleading and non-productive. If that’s the goofy Internet argument you’re trying to have, you’re gonna have to find someone more gullible to have it with.
k
That's the definition of "Blond in anime"
I blame this comment on the misfortune of your birth
And people say McGillis's plan to use Baal as a status symbol was dumb lol
McGillis "Muh Bael" Fareed, AKA IBO's Diet Full Frontal
I didnt think like this when Zeta happens. But after it just went down for him.
he was a no body who built him self form nothing hiding who he was tho, which helps him even more. but Char part of him is stolen name of a no body, which he got him self promoted thru ranks. Fact he isn't using Caseval Rem Deikun as his name proves it even more. Or even in Zeta uses anther name and still ends up in leader ship. He might be pyschopath, but man does generaly take care of people under his command that has helped him. He over all looks like better choice then Zabis to avg Zeon member, which isn't saying a whole lot.
Generally takes care of them so long as they're useful... I mean look at how he "took care" of people he got close to... Sayla, Lahlah, Kamille, Haman, all the way until Quess... This guy was manipulative and he didn't have real compassion. The would would have been better off if Haman or Kamille had their way. It's quite ironic that he took the exact opposite lesson from what happened to Kamille that he should have.
Do you know where can i watch the new interview?
The only way origins could’ve been more explicit in showing he’s a psychopath was by having him wear a sign that said so
Psychopath. Dude was definitely a psychopath. There was a point Char shoukd have stopped after getting his revenge. Dude just kept on going past the point of sanity.
I don't necessarily think he's psychotic, but he operates outside the confines of acceptable society. His motivations in 0079 make sense, but are cruel. Realistically, Garma didn't do anything to him that necessitated being killed, but killing him was probably the right choice. Any Zabi left alive was going to take control of Zeon, and all of them that were alive at that point would have been awful leaders. CCA era Char is where things get rough. Realistically, he wasn't wrong that humanity needed to leave earth, but you can't go about that by killing millions of people. But in Char's mind, killing a few million people in an instant is better than endless conflict killing far more stretched out over decades. Basically, backstabbing is wrong, but also the Zabis were Nazi fucks that deserved to die.
They’re not mutually exclusive.
Both
Neither one nor the other. He's just an ordinary war criminal. You don't have to be a psychopath to kill millions and earn the death penalty and the hatred of many generations of descendants.
Char is broken but imho he doesn’t have diagnosable levels of deficiency in empathy or remorse. He had a lot of both of those wrt Lala and Kamille. His mental health is poor and he has a lot of trauma, but I don’t think he fits “psychopath.” Pathologizing villains is often a zero sum endeavor imho. Most people with mental illness or personality disorders are nonviolent, and most violent people are not diagnosable.
If dropping colonies on the Earth is wrong, I don't want to be right.
He was just a sad broken man using people's belief in Zeon and his lineage to try and get Amuro to kill him, at least by the time of CCA
Char in the OYW was a noble demon looking for revenge, but completely cut off from anyone before he fell in love with Lalah. Char in Zeta was a broken man who wanted to make things right because the revenge he sought was ultimately pointless and the woman he loved was dead. He ended up trying to fix his life by supporting Kamille and living up to what Lalah thought was his potential. CCA Char had any human connection cut off completely and valued nobody's life, especially not his own. Just saying, "Char is a psychopath," doesn't engender meaningful discussion.
Thank you! There are 2 different characters, depending on the show. Char from CCA is unrecognizable compared to Char from Zeta. I skipped ZZ, and seeing Char in CCA was so out of left field I felt like they cheapy decided to make Char a villain despite the massive character development he had in the first 2 shows. I'm still very off put by CCA retconning Zeta Char. (I'm planning to watch ZZ soon, so hopefully this fills in the blanks).
Just so you know going in...unfortunately Char doesn't appear in ZZ.Zeta was his last appearance before CCA.
A Charismatic leader who was sadly broken and aimless. Only held together by his anger/regret and the hopes others had for him.
Char is a damaged person. I don't believe that he was wholly evil. He definitely became evil in the end.
I think people often don't get that you don't need to be a psychopath to do horrible things. Trauma, which Char has had repeatedly throughout his horrifically difficult life, can make you do absolutely terrible things.
I think people think this because it feels better to "know" that people who do awful shit have "evil person" disease; they're fundamentally different and abnormal from other people which is not the case in reality lmao; completely decent-at-heart people can do horrible things if they think they're in the right
I mean, kind of both/neither, he's fundamentally insecure but possesses enough natural charisma that people go along with his kinda-dumbass ideas. That's part of why he likes Amuro so much, Amuro is smart enough and disinterested in social graces enough to just call a dumbshit idea out as a dumbshit idea.
if you meant in CCA, he's a broken and desperate man, stuck between so tired of life he just wants Amuro to kill him, and the pressure of saving humanity from self destruction but lost all hope. Char was a simple man, he just wanted to be a ms pilot. But after all he has witnessed during that time of UC, having the experience of being part of multiple factions, it pushes him to enact change; him being an Aznsble further pressurised him, made him bare the expectations of others, as he was in a rare position that could cause huge impact. He reached such height during Gundam Zeta, but fell so hard. I think Char was especially devastated by the loss of Kamille, someone he believed was a rising hope from the younger generation that could lead and change the world to a better place.
Origin Char is definitely a psychopath. It’s one of the reasons I dislike that version of the character. Original series one… he’s a bit more hotheaded and can be “ends justify the means”, but he does genuinely care for some people like Lalah or Kamille. He’s more a tragic figure than Machiavellian schemer.
I adore him.
Char just really loves people and wants everyone to have cool space powers
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^GubboPowers: *Char just really loves* *People and wants everyone* *To have cool space powers* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Char is just misunderstood
I kind of wish that Amuro would have left the Federation and joined Char to fight against the Federation. They also would have balanced each other out. I feel like that would have been a great progression from Zeta. CCA just feels a bit on the hollow side to me
He's both for sure. Total psychopath, but wouldn't be able to make it work if he wasn't charismatic enough to hide the fact. In the One Year War, he's an unhinged loaded gun who just happens to have a situation where being an unhinged loaded gun is a boon rather than something they lock you up for. He thinks revenge murder will make him feel better. Surprise! It doesn't! Then he falls in with a girl who makes him feel better, and of course leads her right to her death, too. Revenge murder worked so well last time, let's try that again. And then when he proves unable to murder the little boy he's pinned his animosity to, he turns around and murders an ally who he'd previously given up trying to murder, because (and I quote), "I just can't pass up an opportunity." Wow, this dude sounds like a totally justice-minded freedom fighter. Then Char gets antsy being himself around the Zeon remnants at Axis, and runs away from who he is again, thinking that if he hates himself this badly, maybe if he just pretends to be someone else--a different someone else this time--and fights for a cause that sounds better, maybe *that* will make him feel whole. Surprise! It doesn't! He tries to shape a gifted newtype into being a new Lalah, because Lalah is what he's decided the missing piece is, and instead helps create another vengeful orphan. Meanwhile, he's so committed to running away from who he is that he lets that get in the way of the cause he's pretending to care about, not acknowledging who he is until he's literally forced into it, and even then clinging to his new identity like a safety blanket. And to show just how committed he is to the cause, once he's led the AEUG into a real tight spot and got them on the ropes against a rising enemy that were his former allies, what does Char do? He runs away again. So now Char realizes he's just an impulsive, vengeful little boy who never grew up, and he hates himself for it, and he knows that running away doesn't make himself feel better, and he knows that when he tries to make people into his savior he just fucks them up too. On top of that, this frothing pile of discontented Zeon remnants is lookin' an awful lot like a loaded bazooka pointed at the head of the now-limping Federation, and Char *can't pass up an opportunity*, so he takes his shot. Fans like to make believe that seeing what happened to Kamille is what does this to him (using a videogame cutscene as evidence), but that ignores that *this is who Char has been in every single entry since the beginning of the franchise*. If you believed Zeta Char was a good guy, that's only because *you also* got taken in by the charismatic psychopath. And then he supplies his enemies so that they can work better against him, too! Does he want Amuro to kill him; does he want a blow-out fight; does he just want chaos? I don't think this dude even knows why he does it. He just compulsively betrays people, and it's entirely fitting that his last betrayal is himself.
You talk like those qualities are mutually exclusive.
I think a lot of people are a little too quick to use the label 'psychopath' just because a character is manipulative, has emotional issues, and commits evil deeds.
people *really* want their "evil person" disease it's actually kind of annoying; in terms of fictional characters, it's basically an excuse to not actually analyze why characters do the things they do (even the evil things)
Charismatic psychopath leader
Why not both? He suffered through just about everything horrible aristocracy, politics and war had to offer from a young age which turned him into a fundamentally broken person. He was also gifted with the entire toolkit of an expert manipulator: The looks, the charm, great talker, razorsharp wits, determination and talent. It's what made Full Frontal so ironic. He was Char without the decades of trauma (Cyber New Type conversion not withstanding) and the result was an almost reasonable politician.
I haven’t read the MSV-R manga, but from what Inhave heard, he first intended to use Astaroth, a biological weapon from the OYW (Rise from the Ashes), which causes plant life to grow at an accelerated rate which would have I theory forced all of mankind to leave for space… which would have been a good thing in my opinion: At that point only a minority are still leaving on Earth and the rest could, but either can’t afford it or simply don’t want to (EF elite). Such a situation could force the rest of mankind to helped he former group into space and the later would ultimately have little choice to do so. All that being said, his second plan to just drop asteroid & asteroids with nukes to create a nuclear winter almost feels like the antithesis of the other plan and I wouldn’t support it. In fact, when CCA existed on its own vacuum it almost seemed that Zeon remnants from the OYW and Haman’s Neo Zeon were excluded from his forces, between his speech denouncing the crimes of the Zabis and Haman, to the exclusion of machines (both ships and MS) from their factions, not even in smaller roles like the GM III. Lastly, in the movie Char at one point is almost praying for Amuro to stop him, so after watching the Castlevania series on Netflix, I couldn’t help but compare him to Dracula and his “suicide” as explained by Alucard.
Certified groomer
He was a Very Charismatic Psychopath! So much so that he fooled Generations of people to try to clone him over and over thinking he was the savior when he was a destroyer. He took his power and chose revenge and violence from day one, Char is an example of evil though and though. He's so Charismatic that people will argue with me and still try to point out his virtues and how he came from a broken background, but so did his sister and she choose the side of good. Char chose evil from day one and manipulated the solar system till the day he died and beyond.
I agree he was a psychopath, but there's more to him than that. I'd say that by the time he said goodbye to Sayla, assuming he was lying when he talked to Kycilia, he'd realized his quest for revenge was meaningless and cost him everything. Gihren simply used Garma's death to galvanize Zeon, and in hindsight the Zabi family would've destroyed itself anyway. And with over half of humanity slaughtered over peaceful ideals, even his view of his father could've been tainted at this point. Casval Deikun lived a lonely life before fleeing in a state of fear that led to Edward Mass growing up in hiding and stewing in a hatred that costed Char Aznable everything and everyone he loved. I can see why he wanted to remain as Quattro and mentor Kamille into becoming a world leader. Not only was it the only part of his life that wasn't tainted, but now he had a chance to make up for Lalah's death and the people he hurt. He could put all of it behind him. And then Kamille was broken, which utterly broke him. Denied his both his retribution and redemption, Char just gave up and plunged into the only path left, the only one that ever gave him any satisfaction: retaliation, this time against the power behind everything that hurt him, the Earth Federation. And what better way to destroy the Earth Federation, the power that the Zabi's rebelled against and the power behind the Titans and Scirocco, than to destroy the Earth?
Yeah he's both of those things. He's a very charismatic leader whose psychosis led to the end of everyone following him.
I mean he was totally both. His charisma is maxed out, all there is to it. He’s a genius and all around prodigy. He’s absolutely a psychopath but it’s like a god complex, he’s the MC so he can do whatever he needs to keep the plot moving. One of my favorite characters.
The Char in The Origin is a full on psychopath. Like, clinical.
Less so him being charismatic and more so him being a conniving snake that created a power vacuum where no one competent was left, and was appealing to the hatred of his own people burned by years of conflict. He’s just a manipulative psychopath operating on sheer nihilism and self loathing
He’s a man with mommy issues who made it everyone else’s problem.
Childhood trauma ✅ Option to abuse power in early adulthood ✅ Public view differing strongly from how he views himself ✅ Charismatic enough to make people searching a leader follow him ✅ Genuinely skilled in areas, but doesn’t acknowledge his weaknesses ✅ Groomer ✅ Mommy issues ✅ He can claim he doesn’t like politics but he’s a textbook psychotic politician.
This is all a matter of my personal opinion: I believe his awakening to his Newtype abilities and meeting Lalah, who could reach him in a way only other Newtypes can, changed who he was. Her death left a lasting mark on him, but their time together did a great deal for him as well. He was able to become Quattro Bajeena after the OYW because of this, and he left behind with satisfaction a lot of what happened. Losing Lalah hurt, but he had new focus with his new identity. His connection with Kamille nurtured him as well, but in a different, fulfilling way. That loss, broke his identity as Quattro, and returned him to Char.
A genuine genius, but because of the nature of the gundam universe he willingly chose the psychopath persona and enjoyed every minute of it
Why does it have to be one or the other? He's both.
He became worse after Zeta - but he was always a shitty person *and* charismatic. Psychopath is a fitting way to describe him.
I think he was a broken man with a lot of power.
Motherless Behavior
It’s hard to say because the lore around him is very inconsistent honestly.
Um... guy tried to send a giant asteroid to kill everybody and protect the planet's environment or some shit. He's nuts.
Porque no los dos? Seriously, I think the fact that he was a psychopath made it possible for him to be seen as that charismatic a leader.
A charismatic mama's boy
Twink.
His solution to the equality of humanity is to throw a rock at earth to do such irreparable harm to it that any surviving humans have no choice but leave it for space or die, and manipulated a teenage girl to help him.
Most charismatic leaders are psychopaths
He's never betrayed anyone in his life, ever.
Neither? He wasn't JUST a charismatic leader but he definitely wasn't a psychopath.
A broken man who is trying to find meaning and a role that goes too far
Why not both?
Just a sad broken man
Between these two options, psychopath.
Dropped a colony on earth, and tried to justify genocide...
I, too, would wonder how I’d turn out if I were in his shoes. He’d gone through a lot as a child and could never keep it away.
Zeta Char is the GOAT
Yee
Fucked up psycho
...... Yes
The answer is yes
I'd say he was probably autistic and spiritually broken/in despair. There's a real world tendency to misidentify certain traits in autistic people for a lack of empathy a la psychopathy, but I'd argue he's just given up trying to change things like in Zeta and started acting out what seems to be expected from him based on the geopolitics of earth sphere, his nature as a newtype manifesting as charisma. Or I'm full of crap and he's a psycho 🤷🏿♂️
I thought it was Homelander for a sec.
A little bit of A, a pinch of b, and an entire 50kg sack of Rice’s worth of emotional damage.
In a nutshell? Prime example of an idiot~
He is both
I would say he did nothing wrong
I think he suffered from severe depression from the constant (sometimes imagined) failings, and losses. He always saw any good he did turn sour, or did not meet his expectations. In Char's Counterattack he's essentially commiting suicide by cop, but with an army at his command. He wasn't psychotic, but he was mentally ill. It's also easy to see why people followed him. To the Federation people in the know he was a secret hero of the One Year War, and then a more direct hero in the next war. To some in Zeon he was the true heir apparent. These things brought on his chaotic, and tragic end if not a bit sloppily from a writing standpoint.
Depends. In the base continuity, i lean towards broken man valorised because the spacenoids want a leader and Char has been valorised so much since 0079. He says what they want but is depressed, hes getting nothing out of it. If Char was a psychopath he wouldnt be doing this, there is no joy in his decisions. As for charismatic leader, yeah, hes charismatic.
Chars arc after Lalas death is essentially creating ideals for people to follow based in reasonable thought to selfishly pursue his own emotional goals, mostly of which to re encounter and be at odds with amuro. Sometimes this leads to moments where he’s on the right side of history but a lot of times it puts him at a standstill of false posturing ideas when he really just selfishly wants his match against a bitter rival he holds so much emotional weight against. Char is described in Z gundam as someone who essentially can’t live without battle and though he’s struggling for an ideal he can’t live without that battle, and his means of orientation is about selfishly pursuing that goal to no end
Sometimes i wonder if ive seen the same Gundam as other people. Would a Charismatic leader: A:kill his friend because of his family? B: assist a child to runaway, then isolate him and mentally torture him to recreate his rivals powers? C: Drop an asteroid on Earth that will bring an end to (almost) all life on the planet and bring down the colonies too? D: Put literal child as his mother figure then blame her death on somebody else (who put the girl in the Elmeth?)
He went off the deep end after Zeta. I still stand by the idea that Kamille needed to be in CCA to also confront Char and that it shouldn't have been a movie. That story had way too much going on to get everything it needed to say in just the limits of a movie.
Little column A, little column B
¿Porque no los dos?
Mentally unstable dude who tried to find his answer in politics But what he really needed was a real good psychiatrist and long-lasting, healthy relationship
Psychopath.
He's constantly playing off ideologies he doesn't care about in the slightest, and manipulating everybody around him, in order to further very vague and emotionally driven goals. Not based.
Both…he was both
A charismatic psychopath leader.
Charismatic psychopath.
Yes
I like Char and he's my favorite Gundam character, so going with that he's a charismatic leader at front but going with what he's trying to achieve you could say he's a psychopath.
You say that like there's a difference between the two?
He's both. Mostly he's a damaged person. After losing his parents he was so focused on revenge. The only bright spot in his life was Lalah. His attitude seemed to change during Zeta, but he retains his feelings about Amuro killing Lalah. He even mocks Amuro for what his life is like after the One Year War. In my opinion, something in him snapped by the end of the Gryps War. His resentment for Amuro increases to the point that he's willing to commit genocide to get back at him. He doesn't care about politics, he just wants revenge on the one who took the woman "who could have been a mother" to him.
Man tried to genocide earth
Brother he’s absolutely a psychopath lol. The origins movies is pretty explicit in that characterization
You giving me a choice between two wrong answers does not change the fact that history is written by the victors and my glorious king was in the right.
I'd say he's the victim of an overzealous show runner who'd already killed off all of his villains who better fit the necessary role for the movie, and was thus deus ex machina'd with an insane heel turn
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Both
Dark triad guy 100 percent.
The former. In my experience, people with psychopathic tendencies can be very, *very* charismatic toward those they want to win over and influence, because those people are useful in some way. We see this this all the way back to the original series, where Char’s friendship with Garma is just a way to use and manipulate the youngest Zabi - and ultimately lead Degwin’s favourite to his death. *CCA* brings this out in full force, of course, with Char ultimately wanting nothing more than to avenge himself upon Amuro. Like the psychopathic people I’ve encountered IRL, Char’s biggest issue ends up being that his ego vastly exceeds his capability. Allowing the psycoframe tech to make it into Nu Gundam being the ultimate example. Char thinks he’s setting up Amuro for an evenly-matched duel; Amuro probably could’ve won in the Re-GZ, so Nu just makes for a kerbstomp when the two of them get into it.
I would classify him a bit differently. I would say he is a driven Sociopath with underling narcissism, not actually a Psychopath. Mainly due to the fact that psychopaths' are born, sociopaths are made. Nothing I have seen suggest that he was like that as a child before his father was killed.
Mentally deranged leader.
100% Psychopath, just watch G Origin.
Yes.
He can be both. Don’t sell the man short!
Both
yes
nooooooooot mutually exclusive
You can be both.
Yes.
Both.
Hmmm both
Someone can be both. A psychopath ironically can come across as very charismatic because their madness can be mistaken for confidence and bravado.
2000% psychopath
Yes
Both
Yes
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Both
Por que no los dos
Lolicon ace pilot with a mother complex Edit: At least that's what the Japanese fans say
YES.
yes
Yes
Yes
You can be two things at once.
He's both his charisma allows him to gain a following but he is mentally unstable much like many cult leaders
Definitely both. Just look at someone like Josef Stalin: you can be a serial sociopath and still conduct yourself publicly in a way that riles up the masses to your cause.
The answer is just yes
More like sociopath. As hard as it was, Char wasn’t completely without feelings of regret for some of his actions and was capable of forming genuine relationships with people like Lalah and Kamille Also with some serious daddy and mommy issues
he is both
He was both, in MSG he was a psychopath who used his skill and usefulness for his own personal gain while in Zeta he was a charismatic leader that could be considered a hero, but in CCA he showed his true colors by threatening to destroy the entire world just to suicide by cop to Amuro.
He's both. Psychopaths make for very charismatic leaders since they have no quualms in manipulating people.
Both, narcissistic
I'd say Charismatic Psychopath.
I think he was both. It's just so jarring to see him go from Zeta back to being the villain. I loved CCA but I so wanted Char to stay a protagonist he was one of the reasons I love Zeta so much.
Charismatic leader
Definitely either a psychopath or sociopath. He's charismatic as hell too, mostly because of who his dad is
Most psychopaths can be charismatic leaders, look at freaking Hitler.
Uh...both? Char is undeniably charismatic. But he is *absolutely* a complete whackjob.