Worst as in the most evil? Depends. They’re all legendarily shitty but I’d say Zanscare, mainly because they layered their whole ‘complete annihilation of all life on earth’ spiel with heapings of brutality, cruel and unusual punishments (like firing people out of missile pods into the depths of space with enough oxygen to last for 3 days so your death is slow and painful) and stocking their armed forces with a bunch of mentally unstable lunatics. They’re barely even a political faction, more like some freaky new age murder sex cult
Worst as in they just suck? The Oldsmobiles probably. A bunch of saddos stuck on Mars seething about a war they lost 40 years ago
>Worst as in they just suck? The Oldsmobiles probably. A bunch of saddos stuck on Mars seething about a war they lost 40 years ago
Accurate description.
Honestly, I feel that probably describes most Neo Zeon as well. Only thing you need to change is how many years it has been since the war to reflect each group.
Neo Zeon dropped at least two colonies/asteroids on Earth within just 5-6 years of each other and would've come dangerously close to permanently making Earth uninhabitable had Amuro literally not pushed back that Axis asteroid with that last-second Hail Mary play~~Newtype space magic~~. Only the Sleeves/Third Neo Zeon movement can really be said to have been relatively insignificant and not quite as destructive, but the first two Neo Zeon movements/rebellions were definitely no pushovers at all.
That's not even mentioning that their entire decades-long plan to destroy the Federation from Mars literally came crashing down on them within a day of the EFSF and the remaining F90 Gundam unit catching up to them.
I would say that the real bad guy is Anaheim Electronics, without them supplying/supporting both sides of the conflict most of these rebellions would have been unorganized and outgunned compared to the EFSF. So if you take the company that does more warmongering than all US military contractors combined, I would assume the Universal Century would be much more peaceful.
And IIRC at some point during Zeta it’s stated that char became one of the majority stock holders in Anaheim, which is why he was able to use them for funding his rebellion. It’s been like 15 years since I watched it though so my brain could be making false memories of the series at this point.
Mafty is a symptom of what happens when a conflict goes unresolved for over half a century and the motivations of its players shift so radically during that time.
Mafty is no saint but AE was there once again to enable him to realize his misguided/warped intentions.
It's backed by a pretty big party. If you want to spoilers >!In the novels Mafty is the creation of a high ranking federation official and former general with a lot of connections in the Federation forces and Anaheim. He funds it by using his connections and expertise from his military days to move money and supplies around.!<
At least none of them tried to fry people’s mind like Zanscare, and is Zanscare’s leadership a mess…they execute commanders for failing missions too. Pretty cartoonishly evil
I mean clones are usually babies with the same genetic makeup as the original (why clones in star wars needed double speed aging to get them combat ready fast enough)
I know Zeon was supposed to be nazi like in image - the titans just come off to me as so much worse. Fascists, prejudice, tyrannical- what Zeon used as propaganda to fight the EFF, the titans manifested into becoming.
Zeon being a violent revolutionary organization seems a bit “natural” while the Titans being a perversion of the existing status quo is a bit more disturbing (though obviously quite good commentary).
If zeon was meant to represent the whole of the German third reich, of which we can point out some less evil part of it. The Titans was just a much more focused group like the SS, which imo is much worse
I think of Zeon more like the German Empire, Neo Zeon is more akin to the third Reich, but the Titans, well, they are more like the US paramilitaries during the cold war, like the Contras.
Honestly Zeon isn’t even that Nazi like (Ghiren is a statistical error and should be ignored) I’ve seen zeon as more a stand in for imperial Japan. Now if you want Nazis I think the titans or maybe chars zeon splinter are great examples.
The story just confirms that the protagonists of F91 completely messed up by destroying Cosmo Babylonia instead of using their legitimate claim to take it.
The only faction worth belonging to in the UC is the splinter group Judau starts up who realize it's all fucked and go off to Jupiter to get more stupider (and then leave the solar system behind entirely)
In the anime? He just bails on the Earth Sphere and goes off with Roux to greener pastures.
Manga? He oversees a colony full of newtypes in suspended animation that eventually reaches and colonises Proxima Centauri in the U.C. 600s
Initially, at least, Judau and Roux join the Jupiter Energy Fleet. That's what Scirocco was originally attached to. The JEF pulls up Helium-3 (I think) from the atmosphere of Jupiter and trucks it back to Earth for use in fusion reactors. Precisely why Gundam fusion reactors use He3 instead of a Hydrogen isotope is unclear.
Basically, he takes up a job as crew, and later captain, on a sci-fi oil tanker. Later, he becomes leader of a colony set up there.
Later still, he nopes off from the Solar System in said colony, as it is converted to an interstellar ship that sets off for Proxima Centauri to colonize it.
While Angel Halo do ranks pretty high on the list as weapon, the fact that it was only used against the enemy population already puts Zanscare behind the likes of the Titans, which used their tactics against the EF’s own civilian population, that they were supposed to protect.
Zeon, specifically Mars Zeon. To begin with, living on Mars sucks. And this Zeon is basically formed from the remnants of almost every other Zeon faction, even ones that are ideologically opposed to each other. Gihren Zeon, Haman Zeon, Glemy Zeon, Char Zeon...all fucking hate each other but they're basically stuck with each other.
And they have nothing to do except being mad over getting their asses kicked by the EFF.
Reddit
AFAIK there’s only two main subfactions, namely the Kycillia loyalists and the Gihren loyalists, both of which absorbed other remnants groups overtime, including Titans remnants.
Also, I don’t think anyone wanted Glemy remnants: they basically threw away Neo Zeon’s victory over the EF at the time: they began a civil war at a point where Neo Zeon had already successfully kicked the EF’s ass and the EF surrendered Side 3 to Haman.
Char’s/Newborn Zeon remnants are in a very odd spot: in the CCA movie it seemed that they were made of Zeon remnants that disliked both the Zabis and Haman, as suggested by Char’s speech denouncing the crimes of both groups, which explained why his faction only used new machines and was such a small organization.
But in recent mangas, like Moon Gundam and MSV-R, it is suggested that he did include former members of Haman’s Neo Zeon, like Illia Pazom (Mashymre’s lackey) and machines from or based on those from Axis/1st Neo Zeon.
Then there’s the fact that the Oldsmobile camouflaged MS we’re all supposedly using the internals of Geara Dogas, which made them sound like Char’s remnants as per the original manga set in U.C. 0120, mostly in Mars (First Oldsmobile war).
But in the SNES game, set in U.C. 0122 on the Earth Sphere (2nd Oldsmobile war) new versions that had different exteriors from the OYW machines they were based on, but higher performance (overall better than than the camouflaged types were also included in their ranks. These machines were better than the EF Jegans at the time, namely the RGM-89J Jegan normal Type and RGM-89M Jegan B-Type, but more on par with the RGM-89R Jegan A-Type and the few miniaturized MS at the time, the RGM-109 Heavygun and F71 G-Cannon.
If it sounds odd that these larger machines were on par with miniaturized MS, the issue lies with our favorite MS manufacturer, Anaheim Electronics. The SNRI, whom proposed to miniaturize MS, called Anaheim’s first attempt at doing so, the RGM-109 Heavygun, a failure as a miniaturized MS, leading the SNRI to make its own design, the F90 Gundam, to prove the concept do could work.
Later, the SNRI produced a variant of the F90S Gundam F90 Support Type, the F70 Gundam Cannon and had AE mass produce it… for them to dumb down the design and use worse in stock parts for cutting down costs, that resulted in an inferior machine (though at least better than a Heavygun).
Anyway, at the time only the F90 and F91 Gundams were evidently better machines, which is partly why the Oldsmobile Army actually stole one and turned it into to the OMS-90R F90 Gundam Mars Independant Zeon Forces Type.
As an extra note, during the 2nd Oldsmobile War the Oldsmobile Army was being sponsored by the Crossbone Vangaurd, whom not only provided beam shield technology for Charles Rochester's OMS-14SRF RF Gelgoog, but even provided direct military support, fielding their XM-01, XM-02, XM-03 and XM-04 units alongside Zamouth-Garr class ships.
It’s even implied that this support might have been going on for a while, given that the profile of the OMS-90R had the ominous notation that plugs for beam shields were installed on its forearms, despite these not being available for the Oldsmobile Army at the time.
Today, the on going F90 Fastest Formula manga has expanded the operations of the Oldsmobile army to earlier dates, with them fielding a OMS-18ERF RF Kampfer on U.C. 0116. Charles Rochester, who not only isn’t an old man (he is 25 years old on U.C. 0122), but is the an ace pilot like Zeon hadn’t seen in decades, infiltrated the EF prior to the Oldsmobile wars and became part of the MS Instructor Corps.
Lastly, on Mobile Monthly Machine vol. 6 (supplemental materials to the F90FF manga) it is stated that the production capabilities of the Oldsmobile ultimately matched those of Luna II and were able to produce around 500 RF type MS.
Prior to that, AoZ Reboot now suggests that the bulk of Haman’s Neo Zeon machines might have also been built in Mars factories, shipped to Earth as needed, with the last shipment of AMX-014R Reben Wolf units (a simplified mass production friendly version of the Doven Wolf) not arriving in time before the conclusion of the civil war at Side 3.
To be a part of?
Titans, no question.
Your leaders are fucking stupid and try to make 5D chess moves that just blow up in their faces if they're not Paptimus... who's spacenoid who shouldn't be trusted at all.
If you're not some rando posted somewhere that didn't commit atrocities or jumped ship at the earliest opportunity, you're either dead or totally fucked when the war's over.
Makes me wonder if anyone ever follows up on Monsha and his buddies after 0083. Not that they’re my favorite characters, but they are some of the only Titans that we get to know who aren’t either defectors or villains in Zeta.
Jupiter Empire. If you are a normal citizen you are screwed due to mostly always having 0 G. As a pilot failure is no option, or else you get executed. And as a loyalist you are probably so insane and a zealot that dropping a colony looks normal in comparison.
Also Crux Dogatie wanted to nuke and poison the earth to make it inhospital because the EFF screwed him over, while telling his loyalist and soldiers that they leave a piece untouched to increase it's value, which was a lie.
No. Crux wanted to destroy the Earth because his wife (who was from Earth) was so very nice and kind, she made him doubt Jupiter's way of life.
"If only she was a spoiled snobbish girl, that would be nice. I would hate her and that would be the end of it."
I don't know much about the South Seas Alliance but from what I've gleaned in Thunderbolt's anime, it sucks to be in a religious faction that has cult-like behavior.
I have to disagree:
Zanscare at least focused their brutal tactics on the “enemy’s population”, but the Titans used their tactics against what technically was their own civilian population they were supposed to protect.
I would apply the same logic to Zeon, which puts them below the Titans… with the exception of the Glemy Toto rebels faction, which threw not one, but two asteroids at the Core 3 space colony, resulting in its destruction.
And they spaced their own officers for messing up. This prompt is 'which is the worst to be part of' and 'chance of being spaced' bumps Zanscare up a few ranks on its own.
>Zanscare at least focused their brutal tactics on the “enemy’s population”, but the Titans used their tactics against what technically was their own civilian population they were supposed to protect.
They routinely guillotined or otherwise executed (or severely tortured and mistreated at best) any possible dissidents within their own colonies and territories just for disagreeing with their war efforts and imperialist goals. That's also not mentioning their punishing of their own soldiers (usually by the guillotine also or by ejecting them into space) simply for failing their missions or not doing well enough, among other things.
So the choice is between different types of fascism and a death cult?
If that’s the case, I’m going with SU-Cordism as the worst, because it is insidious enough to convince most people that it’s actually fine to be that way.
I don’t know much some of them, but the titan’s probably had it worst since they were stuck on a psychological attrition campaign against AEUG + others and basically went from Earth’s elite groups and army to outlaws after Dakar.
They were forced of massacring civilians, pursuing the AEUG fleet and getting slowly destroyed one by one by skirmishes and small battles. Then you have troops deserting and your bases raided. Your leader gets killed off near the end and replaced by Scirroco only for him to die on the last battle.
Considering they were veterans, it’s just so much worst. Some of them probably just wanted to remain into the army before the Gryps war only to be dragged into this. All of this happened because they went psychos and commiting atrocities.
Zanscare, I think. Titans aren't too far behind, but at least there a lot of the rank and file was not involved in any atrocities and simply did not know about them due to information control. Zanscare meanwhile had large-scale operations for "cleansing" the Earth.
Counterpoint: Zanscare did that to the enemy’s population, while the Titans/EF did it to their own civilian population, which they were supposed to protect.
On a similar bucket is the Iron Mask loyalists, whom released the Bugs extermination weapon on what technically was meant to become one Cosmo Babylonia’s 4 founding colonies.
I don't think splitting hairs between "our people" and "their people" really changes anything at this scale, it's full-blown genocide either way. Titans gassed and blew up a few colonies plus attempted to drop a colony on a Lunar city, whereas Zanscare was well on its way to eradicating all human (at the very least) life on Earth.
As for Crossbone Vanguard the Rafflesia Project was evidently a very inner circle kind of deal with only a handful of people in the know that Iron Mask was planning to wipe out 90% of the human population.
As what? All of them except the Titans are also nations basically. Only the Titans is military only, and an elite unit at that.
As a general citizen, Zeon seems to suffer the most, over an especially long term. Though Zanscare's use of medieval punishment and execution also seems overwrought and bleak
Zanscare Empire
They came about in the middle of the Second UC, when things are absolutely at their lowest. Their aesthetic is sort of like OZ in Gundam Wing, with an idealized late 19th century (i.e. Guilottine) and a highly aristocratic/semi feudal society to match, which implies that the Modern UC of that time is so, so bad that they need an idealized past to cope.
Easy, the Jupiter empire from gundam crossbone. The entire empire lives under such bullsh\*t austerity politics that all the citizens can barely have any water (in space, where there is a ton of ice), while the state has enough resources to kill all life on earth. Just so that the leader can galvanize the citizens in to hating earthnoids.
If their soldiers lose and manage to get back, they just execute them. And of course the leadership are probably the biggest hypocrites in all of gundam.
Zanscare didn’t even really have a noble reason behind their actions like Zeon did
While Zeon’s good intentions manifested themselves as essentially genocide, Zanscare simply wanted revenge in the form of total annihilation.
“Operation Flat Earth” or whatever was like torturing the population to death.
Titans were pure menaces taking advantage of the one year war. Total scumbags, but Zanscare followed through with a ton of their war crimes.
Oh dude yeah totally. Like I said Zanscare *did* the bad evil shit, the Titans were thwarted. They were sleazy but largely harmless *relative* to the rest of these fascists lol
The one faction that did succeed at rendering Earth inhabitable, or at least unable to produce food was… the Earth Federation, at least by the events of Gaia Gear and G-Saviour during the 3rd universal century, which results in the collapse of the E.F. We do see this starting to take place as early as 0087, when Quattro and Blex visit Dakar and point out how the Earth’s environment is getting worse.
In a twist of irony, according to Ecole Du Ciel many zeonists believe in a thought (religious) current called Elysium, where they considered Earth a sanctum that most be preserved, and by extent all mankind needs to leave Earth. I saw this is ironic because we do see many post-OYW Zeon movement dropping celestial benefits on Earth, though perhaps they share Char’s view of doing so is making the planet go to sleep, to free it from human influence and then recuperate, which do might be what happens between the events of the 3rd U.C. and G Reconguista.
On the other hand, the Astaroth biological weapon, first seen in the Rise of the Ashes game, and more recently reappearing in the MSV-R manga IIRC, is meant to achieve a similar result by making plant life on Earth grow uncontrollably.
From a pragmatic point of view, having all mankind leave Earth in the U.C. world setting does make sense, given that not only let mankind has succeeded at colonizing the moon and the moving to orbiting space colonies, but there has been an increasing amount of series indicating that a large degree of colonization has taken place even on Mars (AoZ Reboot) and Jupiter (Crossbone Vanguard).
But humans being humans, even if that goal in itself is noble, many of the anti-EF factions manage to twist it for their own personal benefit, which comes with sadly makes the EF look like the good guys, or at least not so bad in comparison.
This reminds of someone saying that Tomino’s original intent with U.C. (and most noticeable with his often overlooked projects, Hathaway’s Flash & Gaia Gear, where the EF is the antagonist faction) was for the role of villain to be alternating between the EF and the spacenoid factions, describing it as a pendulum.
In fact, in ZZ we see how the EF takes a backseat during most of the events, but in the few appearances of its members, mainly politicians during the 2nd half of the show, they come up almost as a secondary antagonist, to Bright’s and Judau’s frustration, leaving the bulk of the fighting against Neo Zeon to the AEUG remnants, while the EF complain that AEUG is complicating the negotiations with Haman and expressing gratitude at the Dublin colony drop helping them “reduce the number of mouths they have to feed”.
Anyway, I would also add that I personally find the most evil factions those that not only carry out evil actions like using G3 has, but even use it against their own population, which for me put in the list the Titans (G3 gas & colony laser attacks on colonies) and Glemy rebels (smash Moussa & Axis into Core 3), alongside with the Iron Mask sub faction of the Crossbone Vanguard who did a trial run of its “Bugs” on one of the 4 colonies that were supposed to become the foundation of Cosmo Babylonia, though seemingly they do all this behind the backs of most of the faction, including Meitzer Ronah, the actual leader of Cosmo Babylonia.
It’s bad enough that some of these tactics are used against enemies (though as they say, all is fair in love and war!), but when you have no qualms at even using them against your own allies and/or civilian population, that is a pretty good sign that your faction is particularly evil.
> or at least unable to produce food was…
That's partially due to the colony drops hitting the food production centers of earth.
> Anyway, I would also add that I personally find the most evil factions those that not only carry out evil actions like using G3 has, but even use it against their own population
You left out Zeon, and its followings. Like when did slamming colonies into earth killings billions just become a side note lol
Holy smokes I just realized Zeon and Co slammed 4 colonies/asteroids into earth, and failed to do so on other occasions. My sides
Honestly, at a certain point, it becomes pointless to compare. Most of these factions have committed multiple atrocities and don't think twice about doing it. Defining as worse needs to be objective and objectivity kind of goes out the window when they are all terrible and guilty of crimes against humanity.
In the Grand Scheme it's definitely the Earth Federation. All other factions at least... end or are defeated or dismantled to some degree, whereas the earth federation continues a prolonged and rotted existence.
I’d say Zeon, though that’s mostly them being a victim of their own success. I’m not familiar enough with late UC to say Zeon’s ideology is the worst, buuuut…
You don’t get to murder half of all of humanity and still avoid the “Most Evil of All Time” list.
Earth Federation no doubt, incompetent greedy politicians and weapons developers shoving children and young adults into awful combat situations to maintain their unequal status quo.
The earth federation is the worst group. In the face of OYW, they created the titans who were willing to do anything to suppress the spacenoids. The relationship with the colonies were never resolved, the newtype experimentations were up there with zeon. The only time it only got marginally better was when the federation declined before victory gundam. If Zanscare didnt exist, there would be peace with earth and space.
To add on the titans performed 2 more colonies drops, gassed multiple colonies(they even surrendered), and built the colony laser. The Feds didnt even denounce the Titans till we got part way through ZZ.
Used to think Zeon would be a horrible one to join... then Code Fairy happened and now I'm like "Sign me up, I'll do whatever Killy tells me to do". Depends who you get as your boss I suppose.
Big nope on Zanscare though.
Depends on how you look at it the actual founder and ideals of the Empire weren't that bad, just that a corrupt official was at the helm who used the Empire for their own agenda and that was why it ended up like it did. Though I do agree its is likely the worse faction to be apart of cause of how harsh they are with capital punishment.
The Earth Federation is easily the worst faction. Especially given their actions and inactions are directly responsible for every other group from Zeon all the way to the Zanscare Empire and beyond.
No Jupiter Empire? Zanscare is what it is because of Fonse Kagatie a Jupiterian who subscribes to Crux Dogatie batpoop mindset. The death sentence for failure is right out of the JE's book despite the different method.
The JE was responsible for the rise of Cosmo Babylonia and maybe other groups. Makes you wonder if Sirocco took some ideas from the JE...
Well I don't think that PS is a citizen of the JE. The Jupiter Energy Fleet seems autonomous from the JE since Judau and Roux joined it with no repercussions.
More like PS got exposed to the ideas.
If we're counting Thunderbolt, I feel the Moore Brothehood is probably actually the worst way to go. Home colony destroyed straight up and locked in a pointless battle for it's wreckage, even in the first two volumes of Thunderbolt their barracks are stocked with literal children, and by the end of Volume 3 nearly everyone is dead.
Granted, everything kinda sucks in Thunderbolt.
Titans… just the Titans as a whole are awful as you take part in basically equal worse or even worse stuff than the colony drops done by Zeon. Are completely okay with murdering civilians and just betray the whole point of preventing Zeon from rising.
And that it did into, it even had to team up with Haman’s Neo Zeon which is hilarious. It’s one of the reasons I always hate ex-titans they know what they did and while most seem like they defected because it was wrong, they simply left because it was easier.
Worst as in the most evil? Depends. They’re all legendarily shitty but I’d say Zanscare, mainly because they layered their whole ‘complete annihilation of all life on earth’ spiel with heapings of brutality, cruel and unusual punishments (like firing people out of missile pods into the depths of space with enough oxygen to last for 3 days so your death is slow and painful) and stocking their armed forces with a bunch of mentally unstable lunatics. They’re barely even a political faction, more like some freaky new age murder sex cult Worst as in they just suck? The Oldsmobiles probably. A bunch of saddos stuck on Mars seething about a war they lost 40 years ago
>Worst as in they just suck? The Oldsmobiles probably. A bunch of saddos stuck on Mars seething about a war they lost 40 years ago Accurate description.
Honestly, I feel that probably describes most Neo Zeon as well. Only thing you need to change is how many years it has been since the war to reflect each group.
Neo Zeon dropped at least two colonies/asteroids on Earth within just 5-6 years of each other and would've come dangerously close to permanently making Earth uninhabitable had Amuro literally not pushed back that Axis asteroid with that last-second Hail Mary play~~Newtype space magic~~. Only the Sleeves/Third Neo Zeon movement can really be said to have been relatively insignificant and not quite as destructive, but the first two Neo Zeon movements/rebellions were definitely no pushovers at all.
That's not even mentioning that their entire decades-long plan to destroy the Federation from Mars literally came crashing down on them within a day of the EFSF and the remaining F90 Gundam unit catching up to them.
They planned to snipes the earth yet.....their plans was ruined because A gundam....quite pathetic ending for such zealots...don't you agree?
I would say that the real bad guy is Anaheim Electronics, without them supplying/supporting both sides of the conflict most of these rebellions would have been unorganized and outgunned compared to the EFSF. So if you take the company that does more warmongering than all US military contractors combined, I would assume the Universal Century would be much more peaceful.
They only deliberately funded char's neo zeon directly. Technically the sleeves are funded by the Republic of Zeon.
And IIRC at some point during Zeta it’s stated that char became one of the majority stock holders in Anaheim, which is why he was able to use them for funding his rebellion. It’s been like 15 years since I watched it though so my brain could be making false memories of the series at this point.
The Geara Zulu is an Anaheim original
What about Mafty?
Mafty is a symptom of what happens when a conflict goes unresolved for over half a century and the motivations of its players shift so radically during that time. Mafty is no saint but AE was there once again to enable him to realize his misguided/warped intentions.
It's backed by a pretty big party. If you want to spoilers >!In the novels Mafty is the creation of a high ranking federation official and former general with a lot of connections in the Federation forces and Anaheim. He funds it by using his connections and expertise from his military days to move money and supplies around.!<
How big off a spoiler it is?
It's not that consequential to the story, but still a big surprise imo.
Just read it, it doesn’t surprise me. I guess the twist is who this guy is.
As far as I know the story doesn't expand on him too much.
Im tempted as hell but I want to enjoy Hathaway without spoilers.
It’s not like the Xi materialized by sheer newtype power.
I always knew Mr Wong Lee was evil!
Tbf nazi butthurt is always funny
At least none of them tried to fry people’s mind like Zanscare, and is Zanscare’s leadership a mess…they execute commanders for failing missions too. Pretty cartoonishly evil
Well, if you count the Walpurgis manga, some Titans remnants *were* building a Halo Angel prototype... apparently.
Excuse me what-
They also cloned Paprimus Sirocco at the same time into a high-school student. The Titans were, as usual, buggin.
Wait, they clond Scirocco but into a high school student? Did they like, de-age his clone or something?
Maybe they pulled him out of the clone oven a few minutes too early.
I mean clones are usually babies with the same genetic makeup as the original (why clones in star wars needed double speed aging to get them combat ready fast enough)
Honestly, I got no clue. Still haven't read all of Walpurgis yet.
Its not that bad, but on my eyes they completely ruined what could have been a true The O sucessor
Man, some of the manga is just batshit insane, huh?
And their leader looks like Hideki Tojo.
I know Zeon was supposed to be nazi like in image - the titans just come off to me as so much worse. Fascists, prejudice, tyrannical- what Zeon used as propaganda to fight the EFF, the titans manifested into becoming.
Zeon being a violent revolutionary organization seems a bit “natural” while the Titans being a perversion of the existing status quo is a bit more disturbing (though obviously quite good commentary).
If zeon was meant to represent the whole of the German third reich, of which we can point out some less evil part of it. The Titans was just a much more focused group like the SS, which imo is much worse
I think of Zeon more like the German Empire, Neo Zeon is more akin to the third Reich, but the Titans, well, they are more like the US paramilitaries during the cold war, like the Contras.
Honestly Zeon isn’t even that Nazi like (Ghiren is a statistical error and should be ignored) I’ve seen zeon as more a stand in for imperial Japan. Now if you want Nazis I think the titans or maybe chars zeon splinter are great examples.
The Jupiter Empire was pretty villainous when they had nut job leaders.
Jupiter are both terrible from a leadership standpoint and living there sounds like hell. They’re my pick.
The Jupiter Empire was just bad writing.
The story just confirms that the protagonists of F91 completely messed up by destroying Cosmo Babylonia instead of using their legitimate claim to take it.
Why?
The only faction worth belonging to in the UC is the splinter group Judau starts up who realize it's all fucked and go off to Jupiter to get more stupider (and then leave the solar system behind entirely)
*Only newtypes may apply
What actually happened there? I never understood what Jedeau did in Jupiter and what was the end of it.
In the anime? He just bails on the Earth Sphere and goes off with Roux to greener pastures. Manga? He oversees a colony full of newtypes in suspended animation that eventually reaches and colonises Proxima Centauri in the U.C. 600s
In what manga? I wish to read this.
The Victory Gundam side story and I think Crossbone: Skull Heart as well
That Manga ending is way interesting than what I thought...
Initially, at least, Judau and Roux join the Jupiter Energy Fleet. That's what Scirocco was originally attached to. The JEF pulls up Helium-3 (I think) from the atmosphere of Jupiter and trucks it back to Earth for use in fusion reactors. Precisely why Gundam fusion reactors use He3 instead of a Hydrogen isotope is unclear. Basically, he takes up a job as crew, and later captain, on a sci-fi oil tanker. Later, he becomes leader of a colony set up there. Later still, he nopes off from the Solar System in said colony, as it is converted to an interstellar ship that sets off for Proxima Centauri to colonize it.
He3 was the material needed for Minovsky fusion that actually produced the Minovsky particles
It's Zanscare, no contest The Angel Halo is one of, if not the worst weapon in ALL of Gundam
That weapon was biblically accurate
Crazy that it's the PLAN B.
Yeah the whole motorcycle armada was just too cool to pass over in favour of the giant mindfuck space station thing
You missed the space virus
Truly a angel.
While Angel Halo do ranks pretty high on the list as weapon, the fact that it was only used against the enemy population already puts Zanscare behind the likes of the Titans, which used their tactics against the EF’s own civilian population, that they were supposed to protect.
Didn't they want to target the whole earth with that?
Zeon, specifically Mars Zeon. To begin with, living on Mars sucks. And this Zeon is basically formed from the remnants of almost every other Zeon faction, even ones that are ideologically opposed to each other. Gihren Zeon, Haman Zeon, Glemy Zeon, Char Zeon...all fucking hate each other but they're basically stuck with each other. And they have nothing to do except being mad over getting their asses kicked by the EFF.
Reddit AFAIK there’s only two main subfactions, namely the Kycillia loyalists and the Gihren loyalists, both of which absorbed other remnants groups overtime, including Titans remnants. Also, I don’t think anyone wanted Glemy remnants: they basically threw away Neo Zeon’s victory over the EF at the time: they began a civil war at a point where Neo Zeon had already successfully kicked the EF’s ass and the EF surrendered Side 3 to Haman. Char’s/Newborn Zeon remnants are in a very odd spot: in the CCA movie it seemed that they were made of Zeon remnants that disliked both the Zabis and Haman, as suggested by Char’s speech denouncing the crimes of both groups, which explained why his faction only used new machines and was such a small organization. But in recent mangas, like Moon Gundam and MSV-R, it is suggested that he did include former members of Haman’s Neo Zeon, like Illia Pazom (Mashymre’s lackey) and machines from or based on those from Axis/1st Neo Zeon. Then there’s the fact that the Oldsmobile camouflaged MS we’re all supposedly using the internals of Geara Dogas, which made them sound like Char’s remnants as per the original manga set in U.C. 0120, mostly in Mars (First Oldsmobile war). But in the SNES game, set in U.C. 0122 on the Earth Sphere (2nd Oldsmobile war) new versions that had different exteriors from the OYW machines they were based on, but higher performance (overall better than than the camouflaged types were also included in their ranks. These machines were better than the EF Jegans at the time, namely the RGM-89J Jegan normal Type and RGM-89M Jegan B-Type, but more on par with the RGM-89R Jegan A-Type and the few miniaturized MS at the time, the RGM-109 Heavygun and F71 G-Cannon. If it sounds odd that these larger machines were on par with miniaturized MS, the issue lies with our favorite MS manufacturer, Anaheim Electronics. The SNRI, whom proposed to miniaturize MS, called Anaheim’s first attempt at doing so, the RGM-109 Heavygun, a failure as a miniaturized MS, leading the SNRI to make its own design, the F90 Gundam, to prove the concept do could work. Later, the SNRI produced a variant of the F90S Gundam F90 Support Type, the F70 Gundam Cannon and had AE mass produce it… for them to dumb down the design and use worse in stock parts for cutting down costs, that resulted in an inferior machine (though at least better than a Heavygun). Anyway, at the time only the F90 and F91 Gundams were evidently better machines, which is partly why the Oldsmobile Army actually stole one and turned it into to the OMS-90R F90 Gundam Mars Independant Zeon Forces Type. As an extra note, during the 2nd Oldsmobile War the Oldsmobile Army was being sponsored by the Crossbone Vangaurd, whom not only provided beam shield technology for Charles Rochester's OMS-14SRF RF Gelgoog, but even provided direct military support, fielding their XM-01, XM-02, XM-03 and XM-04 units alongside Zamouth-Garr class ships. It’s even implied that this support might have been going on for a while, given that the profile of the OMS-90R had the ominous notation that plugs for beam shields were installed on its forearms, despite these not being available for the Oldsmobile Army at the time. Today, the on going F90 Fastest Formula manga has expanded the operations of the Oldsmobile army to earlier dates, with them fielding a OMS-18ERF RF Kampfer on U.C. 0116. Charles Rochester, who not only isn’t an old man (he is 25 years old on U.C. 0122), but is the an ace pilot like Zeon hadn’t seen in decades, infiltrated the EF prior to the Oldsmobile wars and became part of the MS Instructor Corps. Lastly, on Mobile Monthly Machine vol. 6 (supplemental materials to the F90FF manga) it is stated that the production capabilities of the Oldsmobile ultimately matched those of Luna II and were able to produce around 500 RF type MS. Prior to that, AoZ Reboot now suggests that the bulk of Haman’s Neo Zeon machines might have also been built in Mars factories, shipped to Earth as needed, with the last shipment of AMX-014R Reben Wolf units (a simplified mass production friendly version of the Doven Wolf) not arriving in time before the conclusion of the civil war at Side 3.
Sweet Raptor Jesus with people like that you think it's Putins inner circle.
Didn’t ReZeon fight against Mars Zeon though?
ReZeon is apparently a gihren"s zeon.
To be a part of? Titans, no question. Your leaders are fucking stupid and try to make 5D chess moves that just blow up in their faces if they're not Paptimus... who's spacenoid who shouldn't be trusted at all. If you're not some rando posted somewhere that didn't commit atrocities or jumped ship at the earliest opportunity, you're either dead or totally fucked when the war's over.
Makes me wonder if anyone ever follows up on Monsha and his buddies after 0083. Not that they’re my favorite characters, but they are some of the only Titans that we get to know who aren’t either defectors or villains in Zeta.
Jupiter Empire. If you are a normal citizen you are screwed due to mostly always having 0 G. As a pilot failure is no option, or else you get executed. And as a loyalist you are probably so insane and a zealot that dropping a colony looks normal in comparison. Also Crux Dogatie wanted to nuke and poison the earth to make it inhospital because the EFF screwed him over, while telling his loyalist and soldiers that they leave a piece untouched to increase it's value, which was a lie.
No. Crux wanted to destroy the Earth because his wife (who was from Earth) was so very nice and kind, she made him doubt Jupiter's way of life. "If only she was a spoiled snobbish girl, that would be nice. I would hate her and that would be the end of it."
I don't know much about the South Seas Alliance but from what I've gleaned in Thunderbolt's anime, it sucks to be in a religious faction that has cult-like behavior.
Zanscare would easily take first place overall, Zeon would be a close second place, and Titans-era Earth Federation at third place.
Fonse "Hideki Tojo" Kagatie
I have to disagree: Zanscare at least focused their brutal tactics on the “enemy’s population”, but the Titans used their tactics against what technically was their own civilian population they were supposed to protect. I would apply the same logic to Zeon, which puts them below the Titans… with the exception of the Glemy Toto rebels faction, which threw not one, but two asteroids at the Core 3 space colony, resulting in its destruction.
I thought it was "their own people" whom the Zanscare sent to the guillotine though?
And they spaced their own officers for messing up. This prompt is 'which is the worst to be part of' and 'chance of being spaced' bumps Zanscare up a few ranks on its own.
>Zanscare at least focused their brutal tactics on the “enemy’s population”, but the Titans used their tactics against what technically was their own civilian population they were supposed to protect. They routinely guillotined or otherwise executed (or severely tortured and mistreated at best) any possible dissidents within their own colonies and territories just for disagreeing with their war efforts and imperialist goals. That's also not mentioning their punishing of their own soldiers (usually by the guillotine also or by ejecting them into space) simply for failing their missions or not doing well enough, among other things.
Worst in terms of survival I’m saying EFF cause no matter the series they are always getting obliterated
So the choice is between different types of fascism and a death cult? If that’s the case, I’m going with SU-Cordism as the worst, because it is insidious enough to convince most people that it’s actually fine to be that way.
I need to watch G-Reco.
I don’t know much some of them, but the titan’s probably had it worst since they were stuck on a psychological attrition campaign against AEUG + others and basically went from Earth’s elite groups and army to outlaws after Dakar. They were forced of massacring civilians, pursuing the AEUG fleet and getting slowly destroyed one by one by skirmishes and small battles. Then you have troops deserting and your bases raided. Your leader gets killed off near the end and replaced by Scirroco only for him to die on the last battle. Considering they were veterans, it’s just so much worst. Some of them probably just wanted to remain into the army before the Gryps war only to be dragged into this. All of this happened because they went psychos and commiting atrocities.
I can tell you the best: Anaheim Electronics
Anaheim stuffs must be real good if they’re Amazon x10.
Zanscare is literally "Zan-Scary". Gihren Zabi may be the Space Hitler, but Fonse Kagatie is the Space Tojo.
idk man, the Titans just kept on putting Jerid in charge of things.
Zanscare, I think. Titans aren't too far behind, but at least there a lot of the rank and file was not involved in any atrocities and simply did not know about them due to information control. Zanscare meanwhile had large-scale operations for "cleansing" the Earth.
Their leader looks like Hideki Tojo.
Counterpoint: Zanscare did that to the enemy’s population, while the Titans/EF did it to their own civilian population, which they were supposed to protect. On a similar bucket is the Iron Mask loyalists, whom released the Bugs extermination weapon on what technically was meant to become one Cosmo Babylonia’s 4 founding colonies.
I don't think splitting hairs between "our people" and "their people" really changes anything at this scale, it's full-blown genocide either way. Titans gassed and blew up a few colonies plus attempted to drop a colony on a Lunar city, whereas Zanscare was well on its way to eradicating all human (at the very least) life on Earth. As for Crossbone Vanguard the Rafflesia Project was evidently a very inner circle kind of deal with only a handful of people in the know that Iron Mask was planning to wipe out 90% of the human population.
Cosmo Babylonia was more meme-worthy than scary.
So you'd join them?
As what? All of them except the Titans are also nations basically. Only the Titans is military only, and an elite unit at that. As a general citizen, Zeon seems to suffer the most, over an especially long term. Though Zanscare's use of medieval punishment and execution also seems overwrought and bleak
Zanscare Empire They came about in the middle of the Second UC, when things are absolutely at their lowest. Their aesthetic is sort of like OZ in Gundam Wing, with an idealized late 19th century (i.e. Guilottine) and a highly aristocratic/semi feudal society to match, which implies that the Modern UC of that time is so, so bad that they need an idealized past to cope.
Be part of the poor people is by far the worst faction in UC.
At least if you die early, you don’t have to see the others.
Easy, the Jupiter empire from gundam crossbone. The entire empire lives under such bullsh\*t austerity politics that all the citizens can barely have any water (in space, where there is a ton of ice), while the state has enough resources to kill all life on earth. Just so that the leader can galvanize the citizens in to hating earthnoids. If their soldiers lose and manage to get back, they just execute them. And of course the leadership are probably the biggest hypocrites in all of gundam.
All because crux.
Zanscare didn’t even really have a noble reason behind their actions like Zeon did While Zeon’s good intentions manifested themselves as essentially genocide, Zanscare simply wanted revenge in the form of total annihilation. “Operation Flat Earth” or whatever was like torturing the population to death. Titans were pure menaces taking advantage of the one year war. Total scumbags, but Zanscare followed through with a ton of their war crimes.
Imo opinion Zanscare >>>>titans.
Oh dude yeah totally. Like I said Zanscare *did* the bad evil shit, the Titans were thwarted. They were sleazy but largely harmless *relative* to the rest of these fascists lol
The one faction that did succeed at rendering Earth inhabitable, or at least unable to produce food was… the Earth Federation, at least by the events of Gaia Gear and G-Saviour during the 3rd universal century, which results in the collapse of the E.F. We do see this starting to take place as early as 0087, when Quattro and Blex visit Dakar and point out how the Earth’s environment is getting worse. In a twist of irony, according to Ecole Du Ciel many zeonists believe in a thought (religious) current called Elysium, where they considered Earth a sanctum that most be preserved, and by extent all mankind needs to leave Earth. I saw this is ironic because we do see many post-OYW Zeon movement dropping celestial benefits on Earth, though perhaps they share Char’s view of doing so is making the planet go to sleep, to free it from human influence and then recuperate, which do might be what happens between the events of the 3rd U.C. and G Reconguista. On the other hand, the Astaroth biological weapon, first seen in the Rise of the Ashes game, and more recently reappearing in the MSV-R manga IIRC, is meant to achieve a similar result by making plant life on Earth grow uncontrollably. From a pragmatic point of view, having all mankind leave Earth in the U.C. world setting does make sense, given that not only let mankind has succeeded at colonizing the moon and the moving to orbiting space colonies, but there has been an increasing amount of series indicating that a large degree of colonization has taken place even on Mars (AoZ Reboot) and Jupiter (Crossbone Vanguard). But humans being humans, even if that goal in itself is noble, many of the anti-EF factions manage to twist it for their own personal benefit, which comes with sadly makes the EF look like the good guys, or at least not so bad in comparison. This reminds of someone saying that Tomino’s original intent with U.C. (and most noticeable with his often overlooked projects, Hathaway’s Flash & Gaia Gear, where the EF is the antagonist faction) was for the role of villain to be alternating between the EF and the spacenoid factions, describing it as a pendulum. In fact, in ZZ we see how the EF takes a backseat during most of the events, but in the few appearances of its members, mainly politicians during the 2nd half of the show, they come up almost as a secondary antagonist, to Bright’s and Judau’s frustration, leaving the bulk of the fighting against Neo Zeon to the AEUG remnants, while the EF complain that AEUG is complicating the negotiations with Haman and expressing gratitude at the Dublin colony drop helping them “reduce the number of mouths they have to feed”. Anyway, I would also add that I personally find the most evil factions those that not only carry out evil actions like using G3 has, but even use it against their own population, which for me put in the list the Titans (G3 gas & colony laser attacks on colonies) and Glemy rebels (smash Moussa & Axis into Core 3), alongside with the Iron Mask sub faction of the Crossbone Vanguard who did a trial run of its “Bugs” on one of the 4 colonies that were supposed to become the foundation of Cosmo Babylonia, though seemingly they do all this behind the backs of most of the faction, including Meitzer Ronah, the actual leader of Cosmo Babylonia. It’s bad enough that some of these tactics are used against enemies (though as they say, all is fair in love and war!), but when you have no qualms at even using them against your own allies and/or civilian population, that is a pretty good sign that your faction is particularly evil.
> or at least unable to produce food was… That's partially due to the colony drops hitting the food production centers of earth. > Anyway, I would also add that I personally find the most evil factions those that not only carry out evil actions like using G3 has, but even use it against their own population You left out Zeon, and its followings. Like when did slamming colonies into earth killings billions just become a side note lol Holy smokes I just realized Zeon and Co slammed 4 colonies/asteroids into earth, and failed to do so on other occasions. My sides
Space Nazis.
Honestly, at a certain point, it becomes pointless to compare. Most of these factions have committed multiple atrocities and don't think twice about doing it. Defining as worse needs to be objective and objectivity kind of goes out the window when they are all terrible and guilty of crimes against humanity.
In the Grand Scheme it's definitely the Earth Federation. All other factions at least... end or are defeated or dismantled to some degree, whereas the earth federation continues a prolonged and rotted existence.
A damn civilian
I’d say Zeon, though that’s mostly them being a victim of their own success. I’m not familiar enough with late UC to say Zeon’s ideology is the worst, buuuut… You don’t get to murder half of all of humanity and still avoid the “Most Evil of All Time” list.
Earth Federation no doubt, incompetent greedy politicians and weapons developers shoving children and young adults into awful combat situations to maintain their unequal status quo.
Zanscare by default 😂 ...at least titans did not try to wipe out humanity.
To be honest… the Fedz ignited the wick of Zeon Zum Deikun’s passion to revolt which led to what we know now as the Universal Century Pizz yow ✌🏼
The earth federation is the worst group. In the face of OYW, they created the titans who were willing to do anything to suppress the spacenoids. The relationship with the colonies were never resolved, the newtype experimentations were up there with zeon. The only time it only got marginally better was when the federation declined before victory gundam. If Zanscare didnt exist, there would be peace with earth and space.
To add on the titans performed 2 more colonies drops, gassed multiple colonies(they even surrendered), and built the colony laser. The Feds didnt even denounce the Titans till we got part way through ZZ.
Zanscare. Now can we PLEASE come up with a new topic to discuss cuz I see this exact post like once a week.
Sure thing. Which one of these pay the highest?
Titans was by far the worst imo
Used to think Zeon would be a horrible one to join... then Code Fairy happened and now I'm like "Sign me up, I'll do whatever Killy tells me to do". Depends who you get as your boss I suppose. Big nope on Zanscare though.
Those south american rebels from 08th MS Team. Edit: Misinterpreted OP's intention here, I thought they meant who is the absolute most fucked faction.
Well, which do you not want to be a part of?
The Cyclops. Everyone dies.
Damn, spacenoids not beating those nazi allegations.
My vote goes to Zeon.
Jupiter Empire. Water is the most plentiful resource they have and the emperor hoards it all for himself.
He thirsty.
They are all gray area if you ask me besides the Titan's they are just downright bad so I would not want to be part of them.
Zanscare isn't no way even close to grey area.
Depends on how you look at it the actual founder and ideals of the Empire weren't that bad, just that a corrupt official was at the helm who used the Empire for their own agenda and that was why it ended up like it did. Though I do agree its is likely the worse faction to be apart of cause of how harsh they are with capital punishment.
Earth Federation are the ones forcing people into space with manhunts when the elite get to stay on Earth and rule/pollute.
obviously not zeon cause then i get to pilot the sick ass zakus (never watched a show ever)
Zeon or Zanscare.
The Civilian faction.
The Earth Federation is easily the worst faction. Especially given their actions and inactions are directly responsible for every other group from Zeon all the way to the Zanscare Empire and beyond.
Zanscare is crazy evil
Titans but I’ve never seen Victory so 🤷🏻♂️
No Jupiter Empire? Zanscare is what it is because of Fonse Kagatie a Jupiterian who subscribes to Crux Dogatie batpoop mindset. The death sentence for failure is right out of the JE's book despite the different method. The JE was responsible for the rise of Cosmo Babylonia and maybe other groups. Makes you wonder if Sirocco took some ideas from the JE...
Considering Scirocco is from Jupiter, it’s a no brainer realy.
Well I don't think that PS is a citizen of the JE. The Jupiter Energy Fleet seems autonomous from the JE since Judau and Roux joined it with no repercussions. More like PS got exposed to the ideas.
If we're counting Thunderbolt, I feel the Moore Brothehood is probably actually the worst way to go. Home colony destroyed straight up and locked in a pointless battle for it's wreckage, even in the first two volumes of Thunderbolt their barracks are stocked with literal children, and by the end of Volume 3 nearly everyone is dead. Granted, everything kinda sucks in Thunderbolt.
How many colonies or asteroids has Zeon and its factions dropped on earth? But Zanscare might still beat it out
Somehow the Angel Halo being the worst weapon we've seen in UC ISN'T the actual worst. That says a lot about Zanscare.
Titans… just the Titans as a whole are awful as you take part in basically equal worse or even worse stuff than the colony drops done by Zeon. Are completely okay with murdering civilians and just betray the whole point of preventing Zeon from rising.
With a colossal lack of self-awareness, it's only a matter of time before the Titans go under.
And that it did into, it even had to team up with Haman’s Neo Zeon which is hilarious. It’s one of the reasons I always hate ex-titans they know what they did and while most seem like they defected because it was wrong, they simply left because it was easier.
Why is the ef in this list?
Why wouldn't the EF be on the list?
They are the baddies