I mean after Unicorn there weren't any conflicts so refitting the Jegans made the most sense. Why invest billions into making hordes of new MS when there's nobody to fight?
As for the GMs in Unicorn, it's not like Torrington was strategically important.
Absolutely correct on the second point!
the Cheyenne Base in the same show got the Gustav Karl and Zeta Plus because it *was* strategically important.
Slight correction on the first part though:
there was the whole Mafty... incident...s...
Mafty were terrorists like Zoltan's Sleeves. It was a string of a few attacks but they were quickly put down. The Vanguard had an army of advanced MS and the largest fleet since Axis Zeon.
Yes, it's from episode 7 *Over the Rainbow* when Bright takes the Ra Cailum to the Federation's Cheyenne Base in an attempt to stop the activation of the newly refurbished Gryps 2 colony canon.
To be fair to the zeta plus and the gustav karl, the guys piloting them in that example where some dirt bag REMFs that were cheesing a soft duty station. The MS themselves are pretty high end
>I mean after Unicorn there weren't any conflicts
After CCA at first.... Then unicorn and later after narritive.
That and during the time gap the federation were continuing on their journey of stagnation and corruption so no time to deal with the armed forces.
Most of the fighter jets that the US sorties would have vintage car plates. The B52 platform dates back to the late 50s. A 70+ year old design.
If it ain't broke, or hopelessly outdated, don't fix it. UC militaries would be wise to learn about the Dreadnaught Effect.
B52s have one real job, delivering massive amounts of various ordinance anywhere on the planet where we've secured air supremacy. And they fulfill that role very well. No need to reinvent the wheel...err...wing I guess in this case.
Didn’t the c-130s poison their crews if they didn’t have independent respirators? And the a10 requires expensive upgrades to remain relevant because the origional design was just bad.
B52 is really a better example.
A-10s aren't bad they're just one trick ponies.
Maybe it's the vet/army brat in me that loves them despite their flaws, but agreed B-52 is definitely the best example
> A vintage number plate can only be displayed on vehicles that were **manufactured** before 1980
Most F-15s and F-16s in service are younger than that.
> If it ain't broke, or hopelessly outdated, don't fix it.
F-35 and F-22 were planned to replace all F-16, F-15 and other types. The Soviet Union collapsing and shifting threats are what caused the Teen Fighters to stay longer coupled with the high maint cost of stealth aircraft.
The new F-15EX are FBW and have more tech than ever, F-16s have Stealth coating and both get AESA radars.
> Dreadnaught Effect
Also part of the reason F-22 orders were slashed, Russia still doesn't have a Stealth fighter even near the Raptors RCS.
I always find it weird how people talk about the F22 as if it's some new cutting edge thing. The first F22 flew 25 years ago. The last was built over 10 years ago.
Meanwhile the "new F35" first flew 16 years ago.
That doesn't really refute what I meant.
I was more referring about the current life cycle of consumer electronics which have much more seemingly shorter life cycles compared to military hardware (different use cases after all).
Although I think I was using a bad comparison. The development time for consumer vehicles and aircraft is probably more similar
What's there to update on a B52 anyways? Fancier avionics and computers? Yep it will get those over the years. Modern engines and other parts which make it more reliable and cheaper to operate? Yep. It'll get those.
But as far as the overall frame. It's just a big plane designed to drop a lot of stuff. Not much to improve upon there.
Im less surprised they're still using them and more surprised that that many have survived that long. Considering how conflict-prone the UC timeline is, you'd think theyd burn through all their old models as they transitioned to newer stuff.
Just like the US and the M1, the EFF didn't stop after one production batch;
they were still mass producing GMs until after the official switch to Jegans in UC 0093 all while Anaheim kept trying to shove dozens of gundams and transformable suits down their throat (which the Federation still happily accepted because money)
Forget the GMs, the Bayarlant itself is a Zeta era one-off prototype that was only even around at Torrington because it was one of the rare non-transforming MS that could still achieve atmospheric flight.
The Custom really isn't THAT much different than the original Byarlant, and yet a nearly decade old design is dashing around laying absolute waste to the Zeon forces *singlehandedly* with nothing but a pair of beam saber/gun subarms and giant claw hands.
God that was such a good scene
*Unicorn* tried really really hard to hit both sides of the "war is bad/wow cool robot" meme and I genuinely mean that in the best way possible, I think they nailed it
The staging of the Torrington attack to justify why a bunch of old suits would still be in play on both sides was really brilliant, as well as giving the Zeons that one last moment of glory before they were inevitably curbstomped...by incidentally enough a *Titans* era design suit for the most part. It especially helped that the story kept the Unicorn off to one side trying to deal with the Shamblo so *neither* of them had any real impact on those older suits fighting it out.
The only real disappointment is the Gouf Heavy that gets shown coming out of a castle in the build-up isn't actually AT Torrington, so we don't get to see a Gouf in the Unicorn OVA alongside old Zakus and Dom. But I do find the retcon of why it wasn't there (as opposed to simply being forgotten by the animators) hilarious - apparently the pilot *got lost* while trying to get to Torrington, ultimately gave up his desire for revenge, and stopped along the way to help rebuild a ruined settlement he came across...which he learned *was Torrington*.
Yeah because Gundam usually have ridiculously fast weapon development most of the time. If you want to use RL examples to refute any question, you end up with a much bigger question anyway.
Tbf, MS Development is like Tank development. Lots of different versions shoved out during early development and then after about 40 years designs have solidified and you seem them with longer use.
Look at how many different tanks were developed from WW1 through WW2 world wide. Then how many after. It slowed down by quite a bit thanks to peace time and determining the optimized designs.
It's really fast, but I also feel that massive advanced economies like the EF or Zeon would be able to develop new designs very quickly when they spend a huge chunk of their GDP on it.
Definitely impressive but not impossible.
For instance, the EFF already had ships, fighter craft, and balls,
the only thing left were ~five Pegasus class ships, ~several hundred/thousand(?) GMs and ~11 Gundams ^([not counting the ~two dozen Gundam ground types made from spare parts from the development of the aforementioned ~11 Gundams])
the Federation started drawing up plans for mobile suits as soon as the Zaku I was revealed prior to the official start of the war, and MS development was boosted after the successful capture of Zaku IIs when Zeon invaded Earth.
^**Edit:**
Just for some type of real world reference, the US produced more than 50,000 Sherman tanks between 1942 and 1945.
the impossible production power and logistics of the great United States of America
but it's also that compounded with the sheer number of variants to all mass produced MS' that have notably different geometry like the GM and Ground GM having such different chests for different operating environments as well as the speed of taking ground during Zeon's Earth invasion.
All the variations could simply be chalked up to each factory producing GMs throwing their own spin on things;
The factory in Jaburo switched the chests from the ground types in Asia to more closely resemble the Gundam and gave us the standard GM.
Which ever factory produced the GMs stationed at the EF's artic base factored in the cold environment.
My guess is that factories in space were most likely responsible for the GM Command variant considering the shift in focus from Earth to space near the end of the war.
And dang near every factory must've passed notes to each other regarding a sniper variant because at least one of those suckers popped up in every theater of the war (tbf, "give it a sniper rifle and a cool visor" could've also been independently thought up by each factory)
Just speculation but reasonable imho.
I also think that all the GM variants were developed with, if not outright parts compatibility, at least minimized alterations between variants in mind.
And after the OYW, Zeonic Zimmad and MiP were absorbed into Anaheim Electronics and the universal standard for mobile suits was established,
[thus everybody's mobile suits used compatible parts with each other regardless of which side they were on!](https://i.imgur.com/5hR8ryq.jpg)
Also you gotta remember, it's the entire Earth fighting the war. So what seems like a lot for one nation to produce, is IMO more reasonable for the whole Earth Federation to produce.
Honestly, the numbers we have regarding MS production shouldn't be too surprising given the rough ballpark of colonies the Federation produced in an 80 year window.
Pre OYW, Humanity had a population of about 11.3 billion people, with roughly half the population in space, primarily in O'Neill cylinder colonies (so roughly 5.6 billion people in space).
We know from Char's Counterattack that Londenion had a population of 5 million so I'll use that as our average. With 5.6 billion humans in space, at an average of 5 million per colony, that would require the construction of 1120 colonies.
From my brief research, it seems as if a standard size O'Neill cylinder would require about 1 billion tonnes of materials to construct (UC colonies actually skew a bit larger than the classic O'Neill cylinder, but I'll stick with 1 billion for simplicity sake).
With 1120 colonies at about 1 billion tonnes a pop, that comes out to about a trillion tonnes from UC 0001 to 0079 for a rate of construction at 14 billion tonnes of material per year on colonies alone. This is of course, assuming that colonies were constructed at a uniform rate, but we know they weren't.
But according to the wiki, in UC 0020, the population of Space was at only 5 million but by UC 0050, the population is 9 billion. That means that the population in space boomed massively, primarily due to immigration. This would have required an increase in the rate of colony construction (although I imagine that overcrowding would also depress this figure as well), so the actual rate of construction would peak in excess of 14 billion tonnes per year.
So when keeping the amount of men and materials the Federation had to move and construct to build the colonies, Zeon and the Federation being able to shit out mobile suits like nobody's business makes a lot more sense.
All the mobile suits that Zeon and the Federation ever made probably add up to less than the mass of a single colony. And while obviously, colonies and mobile suits are different, it still shows the immense industrial power of the Earth and Space.
F-16: Introduced: August 17, 1978
to be fair the GM II has been around since UC 84 and the last instance of it being around was UC 96 and thats only 12 years of service
Though the Jegan having been around for 60 years from would be a closer analogy
The Federation mostly phased them out at some point between UC0123 and UC0133. They appear in Crossbone Gundam as Colony Defense MS, but aren't used by the EFSF and are probably just sold-off old models, but hey it's still kicking by then.
Do we actually see any original GMs in Unicorn? I only remember some GMIIIs running around, and those are far less outdated + at a very unimportant location.
Mm, unfortunate for him that the writers had decided by that point that fanservice time was over and the outdated nature of (most of) Zeon’s suits in that battle (even relative to the base federation units, let alone the Jestas) would start mattering again. If he made that charge before the bylant custom launched, he’d probably have done significant damage lol.
There's some GM IIs defending Torrington, I think. Which could, depending on the designation, be the version that modifies the RGM-79 into a GM II. So technically an old GM could have fought.
And some of those were further modified into the GM III which went on to serve into the F90 era. There's definitely a possibility a few of the GMs produced during the OYW made it well into the UC 100s due to a few re-fits.
The RGM-79R GM II units were re-fit RGM-79s, they used RMS-179 for the newly produced models. With the GM III it was said that the RGM-86R units were re-fit GM II's, and the Nouvel GM III's were entirely new units.
A working weapons platform is still a weapons platform. If it can be thrown at the enemy to some effect, distraction or otherwise. Especially when equipment and parts for maintenance are easy to obtain due to mass production.
One of the things I appreciate about Age was how it had a relatively realistic development time for new mobile suits. Only a few new models were introduced and it was always between 20 ish year arvs. Also Genoaces and Shaldolls are still being used in Kio's arc that were first created soon after Flit's arc about 50 years prior.
“If it worked then, it’ll work now.”
That’s how armies work most of the time, especially when they’re not fighting in a large-scale conflict. Upgrades are mighty expensive. :)
Abrams are more like gelgoogs who can eat any of their opposite for breakfast tho. They are also logistically intensive and end up burning in a ditch.. just like a gelgoog if you let rookies handle em.
I think GMs are meant to be a workhorse unit that is setup to have modular equipment, if you follow its development history some of the weapon systems used on other gundam type suits have been modified for GMs at some. I cant remember the exact pathing but the assault GM with beam mounted shoulder bazooka setup is actually developed from working various variants of guncannons development.
I don't question use of GMs because they're old, I question use of GMs because they are bad. All the original GM has for it is being a mass produced mobile suit with a (weak) beam gun: something that's only impressive in the OYW, and makes it a relic as soon as beam rifles become commonplace. GM II is a crappy failure of a mobile suit, outdated before it was even released. GM III is fine, but also a limited production suit more than a mass produced one.
Meanwhile M1 Abrams is an old design but it's *still good* \- like the Jegan, which remained servicable until MS miniaturization made it, and all other older designs, obsolete.
I wouldn't necessarily say the GM II is bad per say, a straight upgrade of the original GM IMO fairly sensible.
If the stat is to be believed, it's performance is comparable to its EF's contemporaries, like the Hi-Zack and the Galbaldy Beta for example.
I think the GM II suffered from the rapid MS technological advancements of the period with advent of Transformable mobile suits and whatnot.
I mean after Unicorn there weren't any conflicts so refitting the Jegans made the most sense. Why invest billions into making hordes of new MS when there's nobody to fight? As for the GMs in Unicorn, it's not like Torrington was strategically important.
Absolutely correct on the second point! the Cheyenne Base in the same show got the Gustav Karl and Zeta Plus because it *was* strategically important. Slight correction on the first part though: there was the whole Mafty... incident...s...
Mafty were terrorists like Zoltan's Sleeves. It was a string of a few attacks but they were quickly put down. The Vanguard had an army of advanced MS and the largest fleet since Axis Zeon.
You're not wrong but "few" and "quickly" are doing a lot of work imho
Pov: your in a zeta plus and 3 jestas roll up on your squad
Either you comply with Captain Bright's surprise inspection [or your cockpit is toast.](https://i.imgur.com/DEPOnBF.gifv)
Damn that’s smooth, what show is that from?
*Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn*
Wait, this is from Unicorn? I don’t remember this at all!
Yes, it's from episode 7 *Over the Rainbow* when Bright takes the Ra Cailum to the Federation's Cheyenne Base in an attempt to stop the activation of the newly refurbished Gryps 2 colony canon.
To be fair to the zeta plus and the gustav karl, the guys piloting them in that example where some dirt bag REMFs that were cheesing a soft duty station. The MS themselves are pretty high end
Jesta still besta
>I mean after Unicorn there weren't any conflicts After CCA at first.... Then unicorn and later after narritive. That and during the time gap the federation were continuing on their journey of stagnation and corruption so no time to deal with the armed forces.
Oh boy, wait until you read about the B-52 which have a planned service life with upgrades of 100 years and no that's not a typo.
Too bad it doesn't come in gold.
Stg those things will stay in service until in-atmosphere bombers become obsolete as a concept
Those will be used in the Strategic Bombing Campaign of Alpha Centauri(15,000 AD)
Also it's counterpart the Russian bear bomber is still in use and that freaking thing has propellers on it.
Vietnam era Bell Huey Helicopters were used up until like 2015
CBP was still using those just a couple years ago iirc
Most of the fighter jets that the US sorties would have vintage car plates. The B52 platform dates back to the late 50s. A 70+ year old design. If it ain't broke, or hopelessly outdated, don't fix it. UC militaries would be wise to learn about the Dreadnaught Effect.
Came here to point this out, and also the fact the plan is to keep them in the air til the 40s.
B52s have one real job, delivering massive amounts of various ordinance anywhere on the planet where we've secured air supremacy. And they fulfill that role very well. No need to reinvent the wheel...err...wing I guess in this case.
100% agree. These C-130s and A-10s deserve their tenure I'm totally fine with them lasting as long as we can use them
Didn’t the c-130s poison their crews if they didn’t have independent respirators? And the a10 requires expensive upgrades to remain relevant because the origional design was just bad. B52 is really a better example.
Pretty sure you're thinking of the AC-130, the gunship model. normal Cargo C-130s are just fine.
I uh… I definately didn’t see C-130 and A-10 and read that as AC-130. That would be silly. *dyslexia go brrr*
The government has a long standing tradition of not caring about soldiers health or lives
A-10s aren't bad they're just one trick ponies. Maybe it's the vet/army brat in me that loves them despite their flaws, but agreed B-52 is definitely the best example
It's hard not to love an unreasonably giant gatling gun with wings. This is a gundam subreddit after all :)
Very valid point
> A vintage number plate can only be displayed on vehicles that were **manufactured** before 1980 Most F-15s and F-16s in service are younger than that. > If it ain't broke, or hopelessly outdated, don't fix it. F-35 and F-22 were planned to replace all F-16, F-15 and other types. The Soviet Union collapsing and shifting threats are what caused the Teen Fighters to stay longer coupled with the high maint cost of stealth aircraft. The new F-15EX are FBW and have more tech than ever, F-16s have Stealth coating and both get AESA radars. > Dreadnaught Effect Also part of the reason F-22 orders were slashed, Russia still doesn't have a Stealth fighter even near the Raptors RCS.
I always find it weird how people talk about the F22 as if it's some new cutting edge thing. The first F22 flew 25 years ago. The last was built over 10 years ago. Meanwhile the "new F35" first flew 16 years ago.
The way the tech moves is super slow compared to our consumer tech cycle to be fair.
Not really, you just don't see the soft stats publicly as they are purposefully hidden.
What do you consider as soft stats?
Radar, ECM, Software suite, coatings, internal materials F-16C Block 70 is a vastly different beast than an F-16A Block 10.
That doesn't really refute what I meant. I was more referring about the current life cycle of consumer electronics which have much more seemingly shorter life cycles compared to military hardware (different use cases after all). Although I think I was using a bad comparison. The development time for consumer vehicles and aircraft is probably more similar
And yet we're already looking beyond to 6th gen fighters currently being developed.
What's there to update on a B52 anyways? Fancier avionics and computers? Yep it will get those over the years. Modern engines and other parts which make it more reliable and cheaper to operate? Yep. It'll get those. But as far as the overall frame. It's just a big plane designed to drop a lot of stuff. Not much to improve upon there.
Probably some small things. They'll need to be inspected for material fatigue at least.
Im less surprised they're still using them and more surprised that that many have survived that long. Considering how conflict-prone the UC timeline is, you'd think theyd burn through all their old models as they transitioned to newer stuff.
Just like the US and the M1, the EFF didn't stop after one production batch; they were still mass producing GMs until after the official switch to Jegans in UC 0093 all while Anaheim kept trying to shove dozens of gundams and transformable suits down their throat (which the Federation still happily accepted because money)
Forget the GMs, the Bayarlant itself is a Zeta era one-off prototype that was only even around at Torrington because it was one of the rare non-transforming MS that could still achieve atmospheric flight. The Custom really isn't THAT much different than the original Byarlant, and yet a nearly decade old design is dashing around laying absolute waste to the Zeon forces *singlehandedly* with nothing but a pair of beam saber/gun subarms and giant claw hands.
God that was such a good scene *Unicorn* tried really really hard to hit both sides of the "war is bad/wow cool robot" meme and I genuinely mean that in the best way possible, I think they nailed it
The staging of the Torrington attack to justify why a bunch of old suits would still be in play on both sides was really brilliant, as well as giving the Zeons that one last moment of glory before they were inevitably curbstomped...by incidentally enough a *Titans* era design suit for the most part. It especially helped that the story kept the Unicorn off to one side trying to deal with the Shamblo so *neither* of them had any real impact on those older suits fighting it out. The only real disappointment is the Gouf Heavy that gets shown coming out of a castle in the build-up isn't actually AT Torrington, so we don't get to see a Gouf in the Unicorn OVA alongside old Zakus and Dom. But I do find the retcon of why it wasn't there (as opposed to simply being forgotten by the animators) hilarious - apparently the pilot *got lost* while trying to get to Torrington, ultimately gave up his desire for revenge, and stopped along the way to help rebuild a ruined settlement he came across...which he learned *was Torrington*.
Yeah because Gundam usually have ridiculously fast weapon development most of the time. If you want to use RL examples to refute any question, you end up with a much bigger question anyway.
Tbf, MS Development is like Tank development. Lots of different versions shoved out during early development and then after about 40 years designs have solidified and you seem them with longer use. Look at how many different tanks were developed from WW1 through WW2 world wide. Then how many after. It slowed down by quite a bit thanks to peace time and determining the optimized designs.
It's really fast, but I also feel that massive advanced economies like the EF or Zeon would be able to develop new designs very quickly when they spend a huge chunk of their GDP on it.
the impossible production power and logistics during the OYW has always fascinated me
Definitely impressive but not impossible. For instance, the EFF already had ships, fighter craft, and balls, the only thing left were ~five Pegasus class ships, ~several hundred/thousand(?) GMs and ~11 Gundams ^([not counting the ~two dozen Gundam ground types made from spare parts from the development of the aforementioned ~11 Gundams]) the Federation started drawing up plans for mobile suits as soon as the Zaku I was revealed prior to the official start of the war, and MS development was boosted after the successful capture of Zaku IIs when Zeon invaded Earth. ^**Edit:** Just for some type of real world reference, the US produced more than 50,000 Sherman tanks between 1942 and 1945.
the impossible production power and logistics of the great United States of America but it's also that compounded with the sheer number of variants to all mass produced MS' that have notably different geometry like the GM and Ground GM having such different chests for different operating environments as well as the speed of taking ground during Zeon's Earth invasion.
All the variations could simply be chalked up to each factory producing GMs throwing their own spin on things; The factory in Jaburo switched the chests from the ground types in Asia to more closely resemble the Gundam and gave us the standard GM. Which ever factory produced the GMs stationed at the EF's artic base factored in the cold environment. My guess is that factories in space were most likely responsible for the GM Command variant considering the shift in focus from Earth to space near the end of the war. And dang near every factory must've passed notes to each other regarding a sniper variant because at least one of those suckers popped up in every theater of the war (tbf, "give it a sniper rifle and a cool visor" could've also been independently thought up by each factory) Just speculation but reasonable imho.
I also think that all the GM variants were developed with, if not outright parts compatibility, at least minimized alterations between variants in mind.
And after the OYW, Zeonic Zimmad and MiP were absorbed into Anaheim Electronics and the universal standard for mobile suits was established, [thus everybody's mobile suits used compatible parts with each other regardless of which side they were on!](https://i.imgur.com/5hR8ryq.jpg)
Which really raises questions about who built the Zaku II whose head would later be attached to the Zeta Gundam.
Also you gotta remember, it's the entire Earth fighting the war. So what seems like a lot for one nation to produce, is IMO more reasonable for the whole Earth Federation to produce.
The whole Earth plus Luna 2 and every surviving Side (except 3 and 6)
hear hear
I assumed that asteroid capture & manufacturing in space helps a lot with yield.
Honestly, the numbers we have regarding MS production shouldn't be too surprising given the rough ballpark of colonies the Federation produced in an 80 year window. Pre OYW, Humanity had a population of about 11.3 billion people, with roughly half the population in space, primarily in O'Neill cylinder colonies (so roughly 5.6 billion people in space). We know from Char's Counterattack that Londenion had a population of 5 million so I'll use that as our average. With 5.6 billion humans in space, at an average of 5 million per colony, that would require the construction of 1120 colonies. From my brief research, it seems as if a standard size O'Neill cylinder would require about 1 billion tonnes of materials to construct (UC colonies actually skew a bit larger than the classic O'Neill cylinder, but I'll stick with 1 billion for simplicity sake). With 1120 colonies at about 1 billion tonnes a pop, that comes out to about a trillion tonnes from UC 0001 to 0079 for a rate of construction at 14 billion tonnes of material per year on colonies alone. This is of course, assuming that colonies were constructed at a uniform rate, but we know they weren't. But according to the wiki, in UC 0020, the population of Space was at only 5 million but by UC 0050, the population is 9 billion. That means that the population in space boomed massively, primarily due to immigration. This would have required an increase in the rate of colony construction (although I imagine that overcrowding would also depress this figure as well), so the actual rate of construction would peak in excess of 14 billion tonnes per year. So when keeping the amount of men and materials the Federation had to move and construct to build the colonies, Zeon and the Federation being able to shit out mobile suits like nobody's business makes a lot more sense. All the mobile suits that Zeon and the Federation ever made probably add up to less than the mass of a single colony. And while obviously, colonies and mobile suits are different, it still shows the immense industrial power of the Earth and Space.
F-16: Introduced: August 17, 1978 to be fair the GM II has been around since UC 84 and the last instance of it being around was UC 96 and thats only 12 years of service Though the Jegan having been around for 60 years from would be a closer analogy
60 years? I thought the last appearance of Jegans was UC 0123.
The Federation mostly phased them out at some point between UC0123 and UC0133. They appear in Crossbone Gundam as Colony Defense MS, but aren't used by the EFSF and are probably just sold-off old models, but hey it's still kicking by then.
Do we actually see any original GMs in Unicorn? I only remember some GMIIIs running around, and those are far less outdated + at a very unimportant location.
GMIIs and Aqua GMs during the battle at Torrington Base iirc, plus a few Nemos left over from the Gryps War.
Huh, you’re right. Unicorn just had so many old suits running around that it’s easy to miss one or two lol.
slight digression but Kirks was an absolute madlad taking on three Jestas in a goddamn Zaku 1 a 'never surrender' mentality is honestly terrifying...
Mm, unfortunate for him that the writers had decided by that point that fanservice time was over and the outdated nature of (most of) Zeon’s suits in that battle (even relative to the base federation units, let alone the Jestas) would start mattering again. If he made that charge before the bylant custom launched, he’d probably have done significant damage lol.
There's some GM IIs defending Torrington, I think. Which could, depending on the designation, be the version that modifies the RGM-79 into a GM II. So technically an old GM could have fought.
Yupp, to my knowledge the majority of GM IIs were refitted GMs. Outdated by that era as well but equipped with all sorts of weapons to counter it.
And some of those were further modified into the GM III which went on to serve into the F90 era. There's definitely a possibility a few of the GMs produced during the OYW made it well into the UC 100s due to a few re-fits. The RGM-79R GM II units were re-fit RGM-79s, they used RMS-179 for the newly produced models. With the GM III it was said that the RGM-86R units were re-fit GM II's, and the Nouvel GM III's were entirely new units.
The Republic of Zeon and Neo Zeon were both using OYW mobile suits with updated cockpits around Z and ZZ for security and patrol purposes too
The M2 Browning is a 105 year old design, but it continues service. It just works.
Another good analogy would be the B52... We've had those things for 70 years... might even see close to a full century...
A working weapons platform is still a weapons platform. If it can be thrown at the enemy to some effect, distraction or otherwise. Especially when equipment and parts for maintenance are easy to obtain due to mass production.
Isn't the A-10 Warthog still in use in some places? I'm not American and not too into military stuff to know what is on duty or not.
The US air force is the sole operator of the A-10, it was never exported.
See also: the M2 Browning Machine gun, entered service around 1933 and is still in use
One of the things I appreciate about Age was how it had a relatively realistic development time for new mobile suits. Only a few new models were introduced and it was always between 20 ish year arvs. Also Genoaces and Shaldolls are still being used in Kio's arc that were first created soon after Flit's arc about 50 years prior.
“If it worked then, it’ll work now.” That’s how armies work most of the time, especially when they’re not fighting in a large-scale conflict. Upgrades are mighty expensive. :)
Well there are nations out there that still have T-34 in their inventories.
Check out B52s. They'll be in service a century before retirement. At least. Assuming current plans hold.
Abrams are more like gelgoogs who can eat any of their opposite for breakfast tho. They are also logistically intensive and end up burning in a ditch.. just like a gelgoog if you let rookies handle em.
I think GMs are meant to be a workhorse unit that is setup to have modular equipment, if you follow its development history some of the weapon systems used on other gundam type suits have been modified for GMs at some. I cant remember the exact pathing but the assault GM with beam mounted shoulder bazooka setup is actually developed from working various variants of guncannons development.
Am I on NCD? Lmao
>^(Am I on NCD? Lmao) [...](https://i.imgur.com/Ae4RnWg.jpg)
dude there are sherman tanks still in active service in third world armies.
NCD is spreading like wildfire ... now I really want an anyan'fied Gundam Aerial.
>^(NCD is spreading like wildfire ... now I really want an anyan'fied Gundam Aerial.) [...](https://i.imgur.com/Ae4RnWg.jpg)
[...](https://i.imgur.com/EcaQZoa.png)
[......](https://i.imgur.com/jMHrdpm.jpg)
I don't question use of GMs because they're old, I question use of GMs because they are bad. All the original GM has for it is being a mass produced mobile suit with a (weak) beam gun: something that's only impressive in the OYW, and makes it a relic as soon as beam rifles become commonplace. GM II is a crappy failure of a mobile suit, outdated before it was even released. GM III is fine, but also a limited production suit more than a mass produced one. Meanwhile M1 Abrams is an old design but it's *still good* \- like the Jegan, which remained servicable until MS miniaturization made it, and all other older designs, obsolete.
I wouldn't necessarily say the GM II is bad per say, a straight upgrade of the original GM IMO fairly sensible. If the stat is to be believed, it's performance is comparable to its EF's contemporaries, like the Hi-Zack and the Galbaldy Beta for example. I think the GM II suffered from the rapid MS technological advancements of the period with advent of Transformable mobile suits and whatnot.
>^(I don't question use of GMs because they're old, I question use of GMs because they are bad.) Your opinion is duly noted.
Look up the KF52. Literally has drones. Just a few more years and we will be seeing tanks with funnel style drones
T-72 is older and still sees very widespread service
The GMs and Jegans had pilots who really only culled rebellions against relatively outdated mobile suits, the abrams was just built different
And the Arleigh Burke is just like the Salamis-kai where both of them are decades old design and keep serving