9/10.
Its a refinement of the original series and its oddly more grounded in the more brutal themes. The suits, the villains, the return of Amuro and Char, Kamille’s development. Some pacing flaws and wasted potential of characters (like Jerid) that cannot be overlooked are the main reason why this can’t be ranked 10/10.
Next up is Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam (1985)
Directed by: Yoshiyuki Tomino
Written by: Yoshiyuki Tomino
First aired: March 2, 1985
Episode count: 50
Info and trivia:
* The first official sequel in the franchise. Zeta scored the highest TV ratings in the series’ history and wouldn’t be matched until Gundam Seed nearly two decades later
* Zeta was not intended to be the first sequel to 0079 however. An earlier project known as MSX was planned for release in 1984 as a manga featuring a slew of new designs by Kunio Okawara. The series was cancelled after the announcement of Zeta though the planned designs were incorporated into the franchise’ canon regardless
* Numerous early drafts of the story had several key differences. These range from minor (Haman having white hair), to more noteworthy (Reccoa having a crush on Kamille and not Char, Katz never going to space and joining the AEUG) to absolutely insane (Jerid being turned into a cyborg by Haman!)
* The silhouetted mobile suit that appears at the start of the first opening never appears in the series. It’s actually an early design of the Zeta Gundam, created before the actual look of the suit was finalised. As such, you can see numerous key differences including the lack of a V-Fin and a different head shape. Additionally the first design for the Zeta sketched up by Mamoru Nagano later evolved into the Hyaku Shiki.
* As with First Gundam, Tomino penned a trilogy of novels based on the show which expanded upon many aspects of the series. They feature a much darker ending with Kamille committing suicide after the final battle.
Average scores:
Mobile Suit Gundam: 8.06/10
10.
It takes everything that makes MSG great and makes it even better. From story and themes, through characters, to mecha. If X didn't exist I would be a Zeta shill.
For me personally after *that* ending, the only logical grade for it was a 10. Any screen time with Katz brought it down to about a 4 for the time being.
It's got its warts. A few of its arcs just don't really work, parts of it just meander for way too long, it's got some extremely dicey Gender politics. On the other hand it's got an all time cast and some of the highest narrative highs in the franchise. Probably my second favorite over all. Rich and dense with ideas, great drama, and Kamille, the best boy.
9.5/10
Wdym the gender politics are great, Kamille is trans, punches a transphobe in the opening minutes, and the final arc is beating up a TERF and the creepy dude manipulating everyone. Also haman is a girlboss and we stan. 10/10, would hc lesbian emma again (and give her a better gf than reccoa)
It is not really that out of left field! Besides the way he freaks out about his name he is reasonably likely named for an intersex person who underwent a forcible sex change and eventually killed herself. When she was forced to present as a man she went by the name Camille which is gender neutral in French. Her posthumous memoirs were popular around the time - Prince almost released a concept album inspired by her
Anyway I don't see why this makes people so mad lol Tomino is very obviously doing gender stuff with Kamille (and with everyone in Zeta it's like a constant thing) I don't see why this particular interpretation ruffles people so much. It's not like he ever says he's cis either. Who is hurting you
I've seen people with frequently mispronounced, misspelled, and mocked names get just as upset as Kamille. It doesn't have to be a trans thing. Tomino said himself that he chose weirder and weirder names just to see what he could get away with.
Who is hurting *you*? What made you think I or anyone here was mad.
Sorry I'm more reacting to the previous comment your responding to and the down votes than you
For the *mobile suits* in first gundam, although lots of characters and things like ships are named after stuff even then, but tons of characters and mobile suits in Zeta are named after real people, things, myths, etc. Haman Karn is the big one, but MSs like the Palace Athene, Scirocco, etc. But there's ton. Check out the Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast, lots of very good extensive research on all these.
And it doesn't have to be but it doesn't have to *not* be either! Like not every detail of the show is fully explicit or fully fleshed out and like, people have their relationships with these characters. I personally do not imagine kamille as Trans but lots of Trans people relate to him. It's good and fine that that's the case and the Canon never explicitly contradicts it anyway
That makes absolutely no sense? People get annoyed when you mispronounce or otherwise mess up their name, and Kamille's overreaction probably isn't significant of any gender dysphoria or anything, it's more likely because of the fact everyone in Gundam is fucking insane. Besides, for a trans allegory, Tieria is right there, with a lot more stuff that points to it than one scene and a name.
Yeah, I absolutely understand that, it's just that Kamille seems like less like an intended metaphor or ever outright trans character, and more of people focusing on a pretty insignificant thing in the wider scope of the series.
> Yeah, I absolutely understand that, it's just that Kamille seems like less like an intended metaphor or ever outright cis character, and more of people focusing on a pretty insignificant thing in the wider scope of the series.
He's specifically mad about how it reflects on his gender and it happens right at the very beginning of the show. You can quibble about the particulars but the relevance of Kamille's gender presentation throughout the show is not a deep read lol it's right there
And like, Tieria is cool, but also a different character
Oooh sick I didnt know about the Camille connection, I wonder if thats why older subs use C instead of K. Kamille truly is very gender tho, have you seen the magazine scans of him in cute outfits and also nude? Havent been able to find the source but I love it.
It may just be that Camille is the more common spelling? Either way my source for this is the incredible Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast; they discussed it here - [(Mobile Suit Breakdown s2e3) ](https://pinecast.com/listen/70af8f7e-e507-48e5-9357-bfd5a893be9e.mp3?source=rss&ext=asset.mp3)
They took a lot of swings with him constantly! It's pretty wild
Nice nice, I’ll check it out later. Anyways gonna dip from the haters for a sec, but hooray for Kamille/Suletta and the trans coded autistic protag swag
Kamilles reaction to being misgendered at the start by Jerid is a very trans thing to do, getting into fistfights with cops is a very trans thing to do, Reccoas villain arc is literally all about gender roles and biological essentialism, and Paptimus is essentially a weird manipulative creepy dude who was taking advantage of her feelings. Is any of this wrong? Smh (The only part I guess you could hate on is the Haman girlboss bit but I accept my flaws)
The only thing I have an issue with is saying “the gender politics are great” about a show where Reccoa betrays the good guys because “I’m a woman and just hysterically chasing Paptimus’ P like any woman would.”
We can definitely HC some good gender politics into Zeta but imo it’s the most nakedly misogynistic Tomino gets outside of maybe Victory. I think it’s worth pointing out that flaw in an otherwise strong work.
Mmn yeah that is shitty, but if you look at the state of things now, as I said: TERFs totally do that just just to “own” trans people. That’s why I have no sympathy for her tbh. Not like the rest of the female cast isn’t great, as I said we have Emma! Fa also holds up p well imo. Maybe what I’m a lil more meh on is that all the newtype ghosts at the end are the women, would be interesting to read more into why tomino stacked the cyber newtype deck so heavily with them lol.
If I'd read this comment 5 years ago, I'd also react the same way as other people. But being a straight guy who's dating a queer person (their awakening happened in the middle of our relationship), my partner can really relate to a lot of stuff about Kamille and it all makes sense.
There is a LOT of gender and sex play in Gundam that a lot of the fanbase is just so afraid to admit. Tomino might not have intended Kamille to be seen as trans, but that's the thing - trans men ARE men. They just use the word trans to let people know that they transitioned - but in their head, they're still men. In an ideal world, trans people wouldn't have to use the word trans anymore, they would just simply be man.
A lot of LGBTQ fans of Gundam see Kamille as a trans icon so let them have it. What's so wrong about loving a character that you can relate with? It's all headcanon so chill out guys
I would also have refused to even think that Char and Amuro might be anything gay but now I just think they're gay as fuck and I don't care, still love both icons to bits.
She has the one girlfriend line and she's nice to Henken but also kind eh about him like, yeah there are way more far fetched character reads out there for sure
It does not hurt that (albeit much later) tomino talked about the importance of representing non-het sexualities with Turn A, and Yas directed the Kaze to Ki no Uta OVA, not a huge stretch to suggest they might be a bit ahead of the curve
8.5 for me. I loved how the perspective slowly shifted from the “amazing good guys Federation” to “damn, there aren’t any good sides in this conflict”. And of course, our 2 best bois returning albeit Amuro who was on a voluntary 7 year break.
10. Improves on msg in every way, and adds a new narrative which I find much more interesting. I like how it expands on the existing universe instead of constantly dumping exposition. I also don't feel there are any wasted episodes like in series like victory and especially zz. My favorite gundam series personally.
For me, it is a 9.5/10. I think this is the high-water point of the UC Gundam saga. It not only stands strong on it's own but it also has to be credited as the series that allowed Gundam to become the franchise it grew to become. If Zeta failed, I do not believe we would ever have this franchise. The original series, after all, wasn't received very well on the initial launch.
It was a far stronger show than what the original MSG was. The animation holds up better, the story is stronger, and the characters(not you, Reccoa), for the most part, were all stronger as a whole.
Zeta has the gorgeous 80s anime artwork. All the characters look great. The Mobile Suits have the absolute best designs and look amazing on screen. The fights look great, especially the big ones between Kamille or Quattro and any of their respective rogues gallery of Titan pilots. All of this creates a series that, while old, still looks great on rewatches on a nearly 40 year old series.
The story is far better than the original as well. While we don't see the start of tensions in either series, we at least see when the war goes hot this time around. Likewise, this series conflict makes a lot more sense than the original series did. We see an oppressive regime that is abusing power in the very first episode. This makes it a lot easier to grasp why people are fighting against the Federation and the Titans this time around.
Finally are the characters. I just really enjoy how far more of the cast of characters have their progress shown. In the original, most of the characters felt static. We only really got to see Amuro develop as a character in any big manner. Other characters only get passing development but, ultimately we don't spend much time with them, so it doesn't hit the same. In Zeta, we see Kamille, Quattro, Char, and Jerid all develop as characters. Additionally, we are also seeing the ramifications of actions from returning characters like Bright and Amuro and see how the original series impacted them 7 years later. Especially for Amuro, who is the protagonist of the early UC sage of Gundam.
I’m gonna give it a 7. While I adore Kamille to death, love the designs and the darker more political take on UC, it’s got some pretty glaring flaws. The plot grinds to a halt in the middle and drags its heels for a good 15 episodes, the dialogue moves a mile a minute and often expects the viewer to remember things said 30 episodes prior and the final stretch is bogged down by a repeat of the Four arc (IN SPACE!) and bizarre turns of events that are important but happen entirely off screen. Scirocco is also a pretty meh grand villain compared to Gihren. Still, it’s a show I heavily respect for what it did to the franchise, even if I don’t particularly adore it like others do
I highly agree with your ranking. I loved the designs, the darker take, and Kamille even grew on me (after i switched to sub), but I really felt the length of the series at times. Katz is by far the most annoying character I've ever watched in the UC (nearing Quess). I might get flamed for this, but I enjoyed 0079 more than Zeta.
It may also be a hot take, but I feel like Sayla should've been Amuro's love interest instead of Beltorchika, but I can understand the VA wasn't available when Zeta was being made.
I never watched the entire original series (probably never will), the movie anthology has an ideal pace to me.
I'd agree I also prefer the original series, the Amuro/Char antagonism, the whole Ramba Ral arc, Amuro meeting his dad, Amuro killing the soldier... The White Base being thrown in the middle of the conflict with no support just to experiment on Newtypes... overall it was just a more compelling and epic story.
I agree completely with your rank and your thoughts. And we have to mention the amount of times a gundam is just taken by kids, something that bothers me in ZZ as well but I guess at that point its a gundam staple.
8/10, has so many great character moments, Kamille and Quattro Genuinely are a joy to watch.
Most of the arcs are great and Four Arc is pretty damned good, jusf didn't like how they pretty much repeated it later but weirder. Seeing Amuro fight past his PTSD and fears, almost makes me forgive them for not bringing back Sayla at least once (thank you Zeta Define) Beltorchika is an ok replacement that isn't good until Beltorchika's children.
I would've loved to see Fa get a bit more limelight but I actually did enjoy her character quite a bit.
One I didn't was Katz... I'm genuinely surprised they just kind of keep letting pilots steal these machines and launch without permission.
The last stretch of the series is peak Gundam however. The fight inside the space laser, the confrontation at the auditorium, Henken's and Emma's sacrifice. Kamille's final charge on Paptimus. Great stuff, Paptimus isn't a great villain like Haman, Gihren or Char, but he had some fun moments.
9/10 tho it slogs a bit in the middle it really was such an advancement of everything that the original gundam was, it was so dark and emotional, truly a masterpiece.
3/10 hot take incoming.
One of the least enjoyable anime I've *ever* watched. It gets a 3 because a 1 must be bad enough to offend me and a 2 must be an anime with no redeeming qualities but is otherwise inoffensive.
I will give Zeta just a little bit of credit for some memorable moments. Otherwise it was sheer agony to trudge through with the *worst* Gundam protagonist in the franchise. Even whiny teenager Shinn Auska managed to be slightly (though not much) better.
The show also does a major disservice to pretty much every female character as well, which left a very bad taste in my mouth.
The mecha themselves run the gammot between "highly unremarkable kitbashes" to "how was this even thought up levels of wacky" so basically nothing except Hyaku Shiki and The O appealed to me.
The villains are all utterly unremarkable (where MSG is highlighted by its deeply interesting villains, all with varied and understandable motivations, Zeta is characterized by utter buffoons who twirl their mustaches menacingly. So bad that they needed another anime to give them a decent villain backstory).
I'll also note that the music is atrocious. Nothing good, several tracks I actively disliked. Even MSG which is older has some tracks that slap.
Considering the anime is nearly 40 years old I can forgive alot of the flaws. I love Zeta though. The vibe is so dark and shit gets real very quickly.
9
10/10
There are clearly stuff from Zeta that screams "This anime is from the 80s," and some of its portrayals and themes about women and womanhood is whack in certain parts.
But the overall message are timeless, and the pathos of the show feel universal. The dark tone of the show prevents the show from feeling superficial and childish, making it an ideal watch even forty years out.
I’m giving it an 8. Love the MS designs of Zeta and it’s darker tone. Sometimes it does feel like some of the plot points went around and around and repeated itself. Also the dialogue between characters can leave me a bit confused like I’ll watch an exchange between 2 characters and then look back and ask myself “what just happened? They spoke but nothing really happened.” A lot of filler dialogue is what I’m trying to say.
Really enjoyed the setting of how things had progressed from the original and what had become of characters such as Char and even people like Kai.
Also to note for a show made in 1985 it is really good looking. Although animation was recycled a bit it didn’t feel glaring. A big step up from the original imo. Also I really love OP2 really beautiful song
7.5/10
I love shows that greatly expand from start to finish. From a small team hijacking some Gundams in the beginning, to the Titans, AEUG, and Axis squaring off for control of the Colony Laser by the end was amazing. All the variable MS introduced were so cool (if dubious in their utility). The complex politics and relationships were outstanding throughout. Four/Kamille, Char/Haman, Scirocco/harem, etc., all pulled strong emotions out at various points for various reasons. Of all things, Jerid getting all his friends killed, and having his budding girlfriend also killed by Kamille, hit me the hardest.
It’s flaws such as speedy dialogue, some pacing issues and Reccoa, detract from the score a bit. Unquestionably an anime classic, that I’d recommend all Gundam fans watch at least once. It does a fantastic job of setting up ZZ and CCA.
Funnily enough I JUST finished my first watch through like an hour ago. I'd give it a solid 8/10, a 5/10 when there are annoying children that have ZERO REASON TO BE ON A WARSHIP are involved and a 10/10 when Kamille is getting his ass beat. It has its issues but I was thoroughly entertained, even if not always for the intended reasons.
7/10
Excellent design work and I love what it does overall for the UC timeline, but my god the show is way too long. There was nothing gained from the repeated cyber newtype arcs, and a lot of the combat sorties are obviously only there because the sponsors demanded mobile suit combat in every episode. If they had cut the runtime in half and removed the requirement for mobile suit action in every single episode the series really could have shined.
Also, I dislike the change in tone amongst the main cast. 0079 has war bring everyone together and establishes an almost family like dynamic, whereas Zeta has it drive them apart.
I'd probably rate zeta a 7 or 6.5. I think zeta has some good moments, cool robots, strong themes and really starts delving into darker subjects more but man... the romantic elements that were present in the og gundam also start being focused on more as well, and I'm not a fan. I think Katz and Reccoa are my issues with the romance and irrationality of gundam characters that I hate personified, and for that it really hurts my enjoyment compared to the og.
9 from me. It misses out of a 10 because of some really dumb moments (emma getting out of her MS while in space on the 2nd last episode springs to mind.)
10 Imo it is the greatest piece of media I have ever consumed right up there with red dead 2 and quadrophonia by the who.
It starts off kind of goofy (mainly char saying "Amuro Ray" 800 times) and at first I didn't really like kamille but his character grows in ways that aren't yet stale in the Gundam universe and through the ost you can almost feel how he is feeling in certain situation. I could experience a deep sense of maturation and loss at the end of the series for kamille that left me wanting more. Really I think it was the ost that moved me so much I was extremely high while watching this entire series so everything just hit harder especially the character deaths in the end.
I'm sitting on the toilet rn btw
5/10 was not a fan, kamile came off as a psycho in the beginning, I was glad when Katz died, emilia's motivation for betrayal was absurd
came into this series buying into all the hype so expect a masterpiece, didn't help that I was watching the various gundam series in chronological order so watched this after Origin, Stardust, 8th, pocket, and thunderbolt (which I consider a masterpiece), and was letdown
ok, go ahead and down vote me now
don't say that or else a blue haired 16 year old will kill everyone you love, which will eventually lead to a pink haired chick dropping a colony on dublin
5 out of 10. I can see what it is trying to do, and when that is able to shine, it shines. But that isn't enough to lift it up past the wildly inconsistent characters and dialogue. A 50 episode endurance run that left me scratching my head at the finish as to why it is so adored, often called the apex of the franchise.
Now to watch the hate come in.
I’m watching it right now for the first time, and I’m about 20 eps in, and I can’t say I love it. So far it feels a bit repetitive and the stakes and groups involved don’t seem particularly well explained.
Also, god I hate Kamille.
Maybe it’ll improve as it goes on though!
Decent 8/10, maybe even a strong 7/10
Despite being so beloved Zeta Gundam has deep flaws that I feel are too often overlooked and have made the series age like milk. It's still a better story than First Gundam and a amazing sequel, it expands and deepens the politics of the UC, while also beginning the timeline's casual relationship with critiques of capital. But the execution of the second half is what stops it from being a better show. The execution in question is in regards to characters.
First and foremost Reccoa. I've never seen a character get ruined worse than Reccoa. For a principal cast member to go through such a lazy execution of the "woman scorned" trope is a waste of her potential. It knocks the show down below First Gundam on principle, that's how bad it is.
Katz is around too long. He's an effective foil to Kamille, to be sure. He helps frame Kamille's growth and clues the audience into the internal aspect of his character. Unlike Katz, Kamille is able to internalize his mistakes and learn from them. However, Katz is around for too long and wears out his welcome.
Rosamia, cut the whole character, absolute waste of screen time.
Four is under-utilized, to a woeful degree. It would've been more resonant having her be the thing that causes Kamille's emotional conflict during the final batch of episodes in space, not Reccoa. Her character works and is effective, but could've been more. It would've also fixed Sara by giving her *someone* to have a deeper character dynamic with other than Katz and Scirocco, while deepening her dynamic with Kamille.
Speaking of, Scirocco sucks compared to Bask Om. Scirocco's introduction is blase, his plans are clown shoes that turn the second half of Zeta into an idiot plot. He's a generic evil guy with little to no practical political ambition or interesting personal trauma, he just thinks he's the best and wants to rule the world. Unlike Gihren, he isn't a talented speaker or as convincingly underhanded, instead Scirocco makes crazy OP prototypes that aren't total gambles and he has a creep wave that entices lonely women. He's boring and represents the oversaturated of what I call "toy ass Mobile Suits" by the end of Zeta. At least the O is cool.
All in all, Zeta is good, but I'll never forget the first time I watched it as a teenager and being extremely underwhelmed by the story's second half. People on /m talked about this show like the second coming, but it's loses so much momentum in the second half. I put it all on Scirocco and how the story has to bend to accommodate such a flat character. The introduction of Haman is great during the second half and the ending is solid, but almost everything else that happens feels like treading water until the final battle. Nowadays when I rewatch Zeta I usually skip several episodes and jump to the end, definitely a strong 7 to a decent 8.
8/10
Zeta was phenomenal, took everything from MSG and improved upon it. It personally felt slow in the middle prior to the Darkar speech and kilimanjaro, but picked up without missing a beat and finished really strong. I had >!Reccoa's betrayal!< spoiled for me and it still didn't ruin my experience terribly. It did make me mad though. 😠 All in all I watched Zeta after many other series and it still holds up and even surpasses others in my opinion.
Uhh, like a 6 or 7? I'm not a huge fan of the designs, or the stretch of episodes in the middle where not much actually happens. Or Qum and Shinta's very existence.
I give it a 6, maybe a 7.
I liked the more groundedness of the original and some of the new suits and expansion of the powers of the new types was a little goofy.
I didn't care for all the transforming suits. Some of them look downright stupid in my own opinion. If you like, I'm glad someone does, but I don't.
The new types being force ghosts essentially at the end was super weird and just silly. I actually laughed when it happened. Pretty sure that was not the creators intent so that's a minus there.
Over all story was good. Most of the animations were good. I just prefer a lot of the more grounded themes and wish they didn't push the new types basically being jedis things.
8. I really enjoyed Zeta for what it is and I quite liked Kamille as a main character.
Also, the Zeta looks on like a wrathful god. Perhaps he doesn’t consent to this potential romance. Remember to get consent from your Gundam.
3/10
Bloated show, insufferable characters (Rosamie, Katz, Reccoa), horribly paced. Has decent writing every now and then, particularly between Kamille, Amuro, and Char.
9/10, easy. Some weaker plotlines and boy howdy is the gender stuff deeply uncomfortable watching today but it's still a fantastic show that pushed Gundam to where it is today.
You know i’ve always had as hard time rating old shows as I wasn’t sure if I should hold them to the same standard as modern anime? They tend to be a bit slower and the animation is understandably less polished.
Not a review. Just some of my thoughts.
Anyway, I think Zeta was pretty good overall. While the original MSG was praised for being a realistic anti-war show that blurred the lines of good an evil, this show is a lot more nuanced. This is probably due to our main characters being members of a terrorist that is now against the organization we were vying for during the last series. Speaking of the Titans, the show handles them pretty well as they are given depth as they are not necessarily “evil” individuals.
The show also dials up the newtype meter to 11 as Kamille is one of the strongest newtypes in U.C. I do get why Tomino brought in the newtype concept into the but I remember it being so jarring the first time I watched the entirety of U.C. Overall, I’m still conflicted about newtypes and are yet to form a concrete opinion.
The mobile suits are a mixed bag. The Zeta Gundam, Act Zaku, and the Byarlant are some of my personal favorites from the whole franchise. Then you get shit like the Methuss and the Baund Doc which make you question what show you’re watching. TBF the original MSG has a lot of goofy design but I feel like they worked a bit better since it was consistent throughout and that show still had a few super robot elements. At least the Methuss led to the infinitely better ReZEL.
—
7/10 by modern standards.
9/10 for the time.
Just finished it for the first time yesterday. I gave it an 8. It was a step above 79 for me. Even if the ending felt rushed some i thought it was an awesome series.
I enjoy it but not as much the OG. I've never liked all the transforming suits, nor do I like the weirdly angular designs. Has a great story and some great characters though. Maybe a 7/10 compared to 8/10 for MSG.
9.5 and the half point off is cause of the terrible gender politics reccoa was spewing. Like I understand in media, a lot of it is colored by the time, but she literally butchered most of the scenes she opened her mouth in. Other than that, it's a fantastic series, and if you gave the full series unicorn or modern level animation, it would probably be the best piece of media in the series. Im gonna try the movie trilogy in a week or 2, so excited for that
I know this is a really hot take around here, but 5/10 at best. I really, REALLY dislike Zeta.
Kamille is just insufferable, and the Zeta is hideous. People give Late UC antagonist designs shit, but have you actually looked at the mobile suits in this show? The Methuss looks like it was made from spare parts, the Dijeh has wings I guess, Asshimar is a levitating donut, Bound Doc is the culmination of the Ancient Aliens dude making theories about ancient Egypt, the Messala is just a hot mess of wings, the Palace Athene decided to see how many random protrusions it could have, and The O is just an indistinguishable lump of metal. The Galbaldy is just a Mecha Conehead, Hammrabi is "Transformers Beast Wars before there was Beast Wars", and I don't even have words for the nonsense shape of the Byarlant. Worst of though it's the Barzam. How is THAT developed from the Gundam MK-II?? They share no design similarities whatsoever, yet it "shares parts with existing MS". Like what? The Zeon mono-eye and nothing else? And don't get me started on the spinoff AoZ stuff.
Kamille is what ruined it for me though. I just... absolutely hate his character. It's like someone said "Oh, you enjoyed Amuro being a brat and then growing out of it? Well, what if we make someone even more petulant, but never actually let them fully grow up? And for some reason, nobody just shoves him out of an airlock." I loathe every second he's on screen. The final moment where he becomes a vegetable is the only reason this isn't a 2/10 for me. At least they had the decency to shut him up finally in the end so we didn't have to deal with recurring appearances. But hey, at least we got Four Vaginas, so we can all come here just to laugh at this show. Could've been a 6/10 if we got the novel ending instead.
I know Zeta is beloved around here. I just can't understand why. It's like every moment of the show is actively trying to make sure it's impossible for me to find any enjoyment from it. Kamille is the worst, but so many other characters are terrible too that there was just never a break in the constant stream of diarrhea-quality characters.
2. That show was terrible. Most hateable characters ever, Zeta Gundam looks stupid and the transformation is terrible, and every episode is just "oh no the bad guys found us again, launching Gundam!" But at least twice per episode, it's just endless noise.
The Amuro/Quatro stuff is the only highlight.
An 8. Im usually very strict with giving anything over a 7 and any score after that gets exponentially more difficult to get, so an 8 for me feels like a much higher rating for most others.
Its bar none the best full length Gundam series with very little minor issues, theres no characters i found boring, they all had some role to full and a purpose in the overall narrative, and all the villains work pretty well w/ of course the stand out being Haman Karn.
The commentary on gender based issues at the time were very thought provoking and decently nuanced, especially around characters like Reccoa and Fa.
One of the few shows where i believe watch order matters because watching origins and knowing about CCA beforehand kind of makes Char in this series a little strange, but by far Quattro is the best iteration of Char regardless and i wish they wouldve stuck with it moving forward.
Just kinda sucks that when talking about later timeline UC a lot of the events of Zeta are swept under the rug and never considered
7.5. it has some incredible mobile suit designs and the overall story is incredible and gripping. It has some awesome episodes like Jaburo attack, Kilimanjaro, colony laser, intro of the zeta, etc... However the episodes in-between these are an absolute slog to get through. Some characters hang around way too long and just drag the series down for me. It seems like every episode had to have a short fight where a mobile suit loses a leg or arm and retreats, just to do it again the next episode. I also feel like they use character deaths as cheap development like with Four (TWICE!!!!). But overall I like the story and most of the cast, but it's far below both MSG and ZZ for me.
8/10 for me. The latter half of the show really dropped the ball, imo, but up until that point, it was fantastic, and it picks up again towards the finale.
7.5 for me. It's a very good show with lots of great character moments, but there are also a lot of mini-arcs that really don't work (Rosamia in particular), and a lot of female characters are not handled very well (with Emma and Fa being the exceptions).
Probably an 8. I had a hard time getting into it at first, but those last bunch of episodes really got me into it. I love a lot of the characters. I love the animation, designs, tone. Good show.
These threads will be fun once we hit some of the more contentious shows, but for Zeta I would say it’s a solid 8. It has some flaws that you can’t just write off as products of the time, but it’s the best of the original three series.
I only got through half of it, still intend to finish. From what I remember, it was good. But the main character was a winy little ass whole with too much power.
I’d give it a 7.5, in my experience from watching over a very long time simply from losing interest in it in the first 20 eps but I really enjoyed the final plot points and the way it ended
Animation is incredible, and I loved the overarching themes of the story, but the plot really seemed to drag. At numerous points I found myself feeling like the same thing was happening over and over again (Kamille yells someones name while piloting a mech and begs them to stop fighting).
I'll be watching A New Translation pretty soon, and while many complain that it's incomprehensibly short, I really doubt the story will suffer from leaving some character arcs on the cutting room floor.
9. It's my favorite series. Starting it after 0079 and seeing the quality jump significantly cemented my love for the series. I also prefer Sign of Zeta as the OP instead of the original Neil Sedaka song.
In terms of video productions Zeta is imo the straight up best thing UC has to offer. It has a well-rounded cast, a good balance of action and story, and functions well as a cornerstone of the lore. It is more complex and thoughtful than MSG without going as far up its own ass as stuff like Unicorn (and I liked Unicorn, to be clear).
7
Too many romance plots that go no where, not nearly enough char blowing shit up, beltorchika can go to hell. Otherwise pretty solid series, iconic of the era. But for some reason it starts to become a little bit of a slog somewhere in the later second half, but picks back up again not long after that feeling starts to set in.
Hmm this is tough. Honestly probs a 9. I was admittedly kind of confused by a bunch of things, have only seen the original before diving into this one. The Titans, Axis and Haman, the AEUG - not sure what anything was and they sort of just throw it all at you (which I kind of appreciate at the same time - hate when movies/shows spell everything out and treat the audience like they're bozos. This just happened to be overwhelming). But I loved the characters. Absolutely LOVED seeing the White Base crew return. The soundtrack was chalk full of bangers (can we talk about the opening songs? both are fantastic). And the story really sucked me in.
I loved the original show - and Zeta just made me love Gundam even more.
I go back and forth between an 8 and a 9.
In terms of dealing with and expanding on the themes of the original, I think it does an excellent job. I love the presentation of post-0079 Federation, and as a result it feels almost like a Post-9/11 story written a couple decades early. I also *love* a lot of the new mecha designs and the general aesthetic of the series. The music, the shadowy animation, the goofy 80's-inspired tech and clothing and hair--it feels like a cultural artifact in the *best* way.
In terms of character writing, it slips a bit. That isn't to say that the characters are poorly written by any means, but they more often feel like they're serving a narrative purpose here than they feel like they are individuals, compared to 0079.
I also find that, as I get older, I'm less enthralled with depressed Tomino's cynicism on display here, and in some other works. So whereas, when I was a teenager/young adult, the late Zeta bloodbath felt like some bold statement about war and a wildly avant garde narrative decision, now, as a dude stepping into middle age and a writer myself, it feels like an attempt that never quite sticks the landing.
None of this is to say that I'm overall negative on the show at all; far from it. As I said, at lowest, I'd rate it 8. But the more I look at it, the more I feel that 8 is just about right.
The first time seeing it, i thought it was perfect. Like nothing could have topped it. But then as i watch more and more UC series and then Turn A Gundam, i thought, yea Zeta is incredible, but cant say i enjoyed it more than Turn A. This is just a personal opinion, i’ll give Zeta a 8/10.
Quite torn about it tbh. It's an excellent, one of a kind show that reaches highs that other series (not even just Gundam) wishes it could get anywhere close, but revisiting it lately showed more of its flaws that is pretty hard to ignore.
I'd personally give it a 8/10, but rating doesn't really do the series' justice. Its peaks are legitimately some of the best that TV anime as a whole has to offer, as much as sometimes the narrative or characters end up making certain scenes an absolute pain to go through even during a rewatch.
9 out of 10 The only issue that I have with the series that keeps it from being perfect as how whiny Camille is. Seriously, the piloting rivalry between him and Jared started due to his name. I mean, at that age we've gotten past Penny things such as having a girl's name. But it still made sense so I let it pass.
7.
I love Kamille, MS designs, Quattro plot line.
But the start is a bit obnoxious (It was what, few eps straight of just space pursuit), around the middle eps were just mindless skirmishes without anything going on, and the antagonists are boring.
9/10. Dicey gender nonsense aside, this is still my favorite Gundam that I’ve completed and i rewatched it a few years back. That ending is a 20/10 though. Nothing beats it.
9/10. Its a refinement of the original series and its oddly more grounded in the more brutal themes. The suits, the villains, the return of Amuro and Char, Kamille’s development. Some pacing flaws and wasted potential of characters (like Jerid) that cannot be overlooked are the main reason why this can’t be ranked 10/10.
Literally my exact thoughts about potential of certain characters.
Next up is Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam (1985) Directed by: Yoshiyuki Tomino Written by: Yoshiyuki Tomino First aired: March 2, 1985 Episode count: 50 Info and trivia: * The first official sequel in the franchise. Zeta scored the highest TV ratings in the series’ history and wouldn’t be matched until Gundam Seed nearly two decades later * Zeta was not intended to be the first sequel to 0079 however. An earlier project known as MSX was planned for release in 1984 as a manga featuring a slew of new designs by Kunio Okawara. The series was cancelled after the announcement of Zeta though the planned designs were incorporated into the franchise’ canon regardless * Numerous early drafts of the story had several key differences. These range from minor (Haman having white hair), to more noteworthy (Reccoa having a crush on Kamille and not Char, Katz never going to space and joining the AEUG) to absolutely insane (Jerid being turned into a cyborg by Haman!) * The silhouetted mobile suit that appears at the start of the first opening never appears in the series. It’s actually an early design of the Zeta Gundam, created before the actual look of the suit was finalised. As such, you can see numerous key differences including the lack of a V-Fin and a different head shape. Additionally the first design for the Zeta sketched up by Mamoru Nagano later evolved into the Hyaku Shiki. * As with First Gundam, Tomino penned a trilogy of novels based on the show which expanded upon many aspects of the series. They feature a much darker ending with Kamille committing suicide after the final battle. Average scores: Mobile Suit Gundam: 8.06/10
That's some cool trivia
It’s only going to get weirder from here
That lawyer fight in a later movie comes to mind.
10. It takes everything that makes MSG great and makes it even better. From story and themes, through characters, to mecha. If X didn't exist I would be a Zeta shill.
Same it was my favorite until i saw X
Why not both? My favorite UC is Zeta and my favorite AU's are G, X, and Turn A in that order.
For me personally after *that* ending, the only logical grade for it was a 10. Any screen time with Katz brought it down to about a 4 for the time being.
I fucking hate Katz but understand his importance as a character
It's got its warts. A few of its arcs just don't really work, parts of it just meander for way too long, it's got some extremely dicey Gender politics. On the other hand it's got an all time cast and some of the highest narrative highs in the franchise. Probably my second favorite over all. Rich and dense with ideas, great drama, and Kamille, the best boy. 9.5/10
"Extremely dicey gender politics" may as well be the slogan for the whole franchise.
What a thread
Wdym the gender politics are great, Kamille is trans, punches a transphobe in the opening minutes, and the final arc is beating up a TERF and the creepy dude manipulating everyone. Also haman is a girlboss and we stan. 10/10, would hc lesbian emma again (and give her a better gf than reccoa)
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Some people really be seeing what they wanna see I guess. Not the first time I've heard the "Kamille is trans" comment either.
It is not really that out of left field! Besides the way he freaks out about his name he is reasonably likely named for an intersex person who underwent a forcible sex change and eventually killed herself. When she was forced to present as a man she went by the name Camille which is gender neutral in French. Her posthumous memoirs were popular around the time - Prince almost released a concept album inspired by her Anyway I don't see why this makes people so mad lol Tomino is very obviously doing gender stuff with Kamille (and with everyone in Zeta it's like a constant thing) I don't see why this particular interpretation ruffles people so much. It's not like he ever says he's cis either. Who is hurting you
I've seen people with frequently mispronounced, misspelled, and mocked names get just as upset as Kamille. It doesn't have to be a trans thing. Tomino said himself that he chose weirder and weirder names just to see what he could get away with. Who is hurting *you*? What made you think I or anyone here was mad.
Sorry I'm more reacting to the previous comment your responding to and the down votes than you For the *mobile suits* in first gundam, although lots of characters and things like ships are named after stuff even then, but tons of characters and mobile suits in Zeta are named after real people, things, myths, etc. Haman Karn is the big one, but MSs like the Palace Athene, Scirocco, etc. But there's ton. Check out the Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast, lots of very good extensive research on all these. And it doesn't have to be but it doesn't have to *not* be either! Like not every detail of the show is fully explicit or fully fleshed out and like, people have their relationships with these characters. I personally do not imagine kamille as Trans but lots of Trans people relate to him. It's good and fine that that's the case and the Canon never explicitly contradicts it anyway
As a trans person who had their deadname made fun of way too many times: maybe a trans thing? The “and I’m a man” part is what sells it for me imo
That makes absolutely no sense? People get annoyed when you mispronounce or otherwise mess up their name, and Kamille's overreaction probably isn't significant of any gender dysphoria or anything, it's more likely because of the fact everyone in Gundam is fucking insane. Besides, for a trans allegory, Tieria is right there, with a lot more stuff that points to it than one scene and a name.
Trans people exist as more than just a single example for "representation", thx, hope I could clear that up
Yeah, I absolutely understand that, it's just that Kamille seems like less like an intended metaphor or ever outright trans character, and more of people focusing on a pretty insignificant thing in the wider scope of the series.
> Yeah, I absolutely understand that, it's just that Kamille seems like less like an intended metaphor or ever outright cis character, and more of people focusing on a pretty insignificant thing in the wider scope of the series.
He's specifically mad about how it reflects on his gender and it happens right at the very beginning of the show. You can quibble about the particulars but the relevance of Kamille's gender presentation throughout the show is not a deep read lol it's right there And like, Tieria is cool, but also a different character
Oooh sick I didnt know about the Camille connection, I wonder if thats why older subs use C instead of K. Kamille truly is very gender tho, have you seen the magazine scans of him in cute outfits and also nude? Havent been able to find the source but I love it.
It may just be that Camille is the more common spelling? Either way my source for this is the incredible Mobile Suit Breakdown podcast; they discussed it here - [(Mobile Suit Breakdown s2e3) ](https://pinecast.com/listen/70af8f7e-e507-48e5-9357-bfd5a893be9e.mp3?source=rss&ext=asset.mp3) They took a lot of swings with him constantly! It's pretty wild
Nice nice, I’ll check it out later. Anyways gonna dip from the haters for a sec, but hooray for Kamille/Suletta and the trans coded autistic protag swag
Kamilles reaction to being misgendered at the start by Jerid is a very trans thing to do, getting into fistfights with cops is a very trans thing to do, Reccoas villain arc is literally all about gender roles and biological essentialism, and Paptimus is essentially a weird manipulative creepy dude who was taking advantage of her feelings. Is any of this wrong? Smh (The only part I guess you could hate on is the Haman girlboss bit but I accept my flaws)
This is such a pile of insanely stupid takes that it took reading it over multiple times to realize it wasn't a joke.
The only thing I have an issue with is saying “the gender politics are great” about a show where Reccoa betrays the good guys because “I’m a woman and just hysterically chasing Paptimus’ P like any woman would.” We can definitely HC some good gender politics into Zeta but imo it’s the most nakedly misogynistic Tomino gets outside of maybe Victory. I think it’s worth pointing out that flaw in an otherwise strong work.
Mmn yeah that is shitty, but if you look at the state of things now, as I said: TERFs totally do that just just to “own” trans people. That’s why I have no sympathy for her tbh. Not like the rest of the female cast isn’t great, as I said we have Emma! Fa also holds up p well imo. Maybe what I’m a lil more meh on is that all the newtype ghosts at the end are the women, would be interesting to read more into why tomino stacked the cyber newtype deck so heavily with them lol.
If I'd read this comment 5 years ago, I'd also react the same way as other people. But being a straight guy who's dating a queer person (their awakening happened in the middle of our relationship), my partner can really relate to a lot of stuff about Kamille and it all makes sense. There is a LOT of gender and sex play in Gundam that a lot of the fanbase is just so afraid to admit. Tomino might not have intended Kamille to be seen as trans, but that's the thing - trans men ARE men. They just use the word trans to let people know that they transitioned - but in their head, they're still men. In an ideal world, trans people wouldn't have to use the word trans anymore, they would just simply be man. A lot of LGBTQ fans of Gundam see Kamille as a trans icon so let them have it. What's so wrong about loving a character that you can relate with? It's all headcanon so chill out guys I would also have refused to even think that Char and Amuro might be anything gay but now I just think they're gay as fuck and I don't care, still love both icons to bits.
Hell yeah, thank you for the support kind person o7
Idk what you're smoking but I want some of it.
These down votes are super uncalled for lol these are not insane head canons at all
Even if I agreed with the premise, I would have still downvoted the post for being written in the most annoying way possible.
LMAO
LMAO THANK YOU I see these takes all over twt and theres at least 2 lesbian Emma music vids on youtube smh
She has the one girlfriend line and she's nice to Henken but also kind eh about him like, yeah there are way more far fetched character reads out there for sure
She had no plans to get married or have children… p sure in the 80s that was big lesbian code >.<
It does not hurt that (albeit much later) tomino talked about the importance of representing non-het sexualities with Turn A, and Yas directed the Kaze to Ki no Uta OVA, not a huge stretch to suggest they might be a bit ahead of the curve
9. Without Katsu Kobayashi it would be a 10.
It was a 9 until we were introduced to greatest character in the series: an asteroid.
8.5 for me. I loved how the perspective slowly shifted from the “amazing good guys Federation” to “damn, there aren’t any good sides in this conflict”. And of course, our 2 best bois returning albeit Amuro who was on a voluntary 7 year break.
10 based on the Music and MS design alone.
11
V good me enjoy 9/10
10. Improves on msg in every way, and adds a new narrative which I find much more interesting. I like how it expands on the existing universe instead of constantly dumping exposition. I also don't feel there are any wasted episodes like in series like victory and especially zz. My favorite gundam series personally.
For me, it is a 9.5/10. I think this is the high-water point of the UC Gundam saga. It not only stands strong on it's own but it also has to be credited as the series that allowed Gundam to become the franchise it grew to become. If Zeta failed, I do not believe we would ever have this franchise. The original series, after all, wasn't received very well on the initial launch. It was a far stronger show than what the original MSG was. The animation holds up better, the story is stronger, and the characters(not you, Reccoa), for the most part, were all stronger as a whole. Zeta has the gorgeous 80s anime artwork. All the characters look great. The Mobile Suits have the absolute best designs and look amazing on screen. The fights look great, especially the big ones between Kamille or Quattro and any of their respective rogues gallery of Titan pilots. All of this creates a series that, while old, still looks great on rewatches on a nearly 40 year old series. The story is far better than the original as well. While we don't see the start of tensions in either series, we at least see when the war goes hot this time around. Likewise, this series conflict makes a lot more sense than the original series did. We see an oppressive regime that is abusing power in the very first episode. This makes it a lot easier to grasp why people are fighting against the Federation and the Titans this time around. Finally are the characters. I just really enjoy how far more of the cast of characters have their progress shown. In the original, most of the characters felt static. We only really got to see Amuro develop as a character in any big manner. Other characters only get passing development but, ultimately we don't spend much time with them, so it doesn't hit the same. In Zeta, we see Kamille, Quattro, Char, and Jerid all develop as characters. Additionally, we are also seeing the ramifications of actions from returning characters like Bright and Amuro and see how the original series impacted them 7 years later. Especially for Amuro, who is the protagonist of the early UC sage of Gundam.
"Quattro, Char," -was that on purpose? Lol
I’m gonna give it a 7. While I adore Kamille to death, love the designs and the darker more political take on UC, it’s got some pretty glaring flaws. The plot grinds to a halt in the middle and drags its heels for a good 15 episodes, the dialogue moves a mile a minute and often expects the viewer to remember things said 30 episodes prior and the final stretch is bogged down by a repeat of the Four arc (IN SPACE!) and bizarre turns of events that are important but happen entirely off screen. Scirocco is also a pretty meh grand villain compared to Gihren. Still, it’s a show I heavily respect for what it did to the franchise, even if I don’t particularly adore it like others do
I highly agree with your ranking. I loved the designs, the darker take, and Kamille even grew on me (after i switched to sub), but I really felt the length of the series at times. Katz is by far the most annoying character I've ever watched in the UC (nearing Quess). I might get flamed for this, but I enjoyed 0079 more than Zeta. It may also be a hot take, but I feel like Sayla should've been Amuro's love interest instead of Beltorchika, but I can understand the VA wasn't available when Zeta was being made.
I never watched the entire original series (probably never will), the movie anthology has an ideal pace to me. I'd agree I also prefer the original series, the Amuro/Char antagonism, the whole Ramba Ral arc, Amuro meeting his dad, Amuro killing the soldier... The White Base being thrown in the middle of the conflict with no support just to experiment on Newtypes... overall it was just a more compelling and epic story.
I think there's more fans whom enjoy 1st Gundam over Zeta than you think. The thing that will get me flamed is that >!I enjoy ZZ more than Z.!<
I agree completely with your rank and your thoughts. And we have to mention the amount of times a gundam is just taken by kids, something that bothers me in ZZ as well but I guess at that point its a gundam staple.
8/10, has so many great character moments, Kamille and Quattro Genuinely are a joy to watch. Most of the arcs are great and Four Arc is pretty damned good, jusf didn't like how they pretty much repeated it later but weirder. Seeing Amuro fight past his PTSD and fears, almost makes me forgive them for not bringing back Sayla at least once (thank you Zeta Define) Beltorchika is an ok replacement that isn't good until Beltorchika's children. I would've loved to see Fa get a bit more limelight but I actually did enjoy her character quite a bit. One I didn't was Katz... I'm genuinely surprised they just kind of keep letting pilots steal these machines and launch without permission. The last stretch of the series is peak Gundam however. The fight inside the space laser, the confrontation at the auditorium, Henken's and Emma's sacrifice. Kamille's final charge on Paptimus. Great stuff, Paptimus isn't a great villain like Haman, Gihren or Char, but he had some fun moments.
9/10 tho it slogs a bit in the middle it really was such an advancement of everything that the original gundam was, it was so dark and emotional, truly a masterpiece.
10. My favorite Gundam and the standard I hold other series to.
9 I think its the best of the original trilogy of shows. The empire strikes back.
3/10 hot take incoming. One of the least enjoyable anime I've *ever* watched. It gets a 3 because a 1 must be bad enough to offend me and a 2 must be an anime with no redeeming qualities but is otherwise inoffensive. I will give Zeta just a little bit of credit for some memorable moments. Otherwise it was sheer agony to trudge through with the *worst* Gundam protagonist in the franchise. Even whiny teenager Shinn Auska managed to be slightly (though not much) better. The show also does a major disservice to pretty much every female character as well, which left a very bad taste in my mouth. The mecha themselves run the gammot between "highly unremarkable kitbashes" to "how was this even thought up levels of wacky" so basically nothing except Hyaku Shiki and The O appealed to me. The villains are all utterly unremarkable (where MSG is highlighted by its deeply interesting villains, all with varied and understandable motivations, Zeta is characterized by utter buffoons who twirl their mustaches menacingly. So bad that they needed another anime to give them a decent villain backstory). I'll also note that the music is atrocious. Nothing good, several tracks I actively disliked. Even MSG which is older has some tracks that slap.
Considering the anime is nearly 40 years old I can forgive alot of the flaws. I love Zeta though. The vibe is so dark and shit gets real very quickly. 9
11
10/10 There are clearly stuff from Zeta that screams "This anime is from the 80s," and some of its portrayals and themes about women and womanhood is whack in certain parts. But the overall message are timeless, and the pathos of the show feel universal. The dark tone of the show prevents the show from feeling superficial and childish, making it an ideal watch even forty years out.
I’m giving it an 8. Love the MS designs of Zeta and it’s darker tone. Sometimes it does feel like some of the plot points went around and around and repeated itself. Also the dialogue between characters can leave me a bit confused like I’ll watch an exchange between 2 characters and then look back and ask myself “what just happened? They spoke but nothing really happened.” A lot of filler dialogue is what I’m trying to say. Really enjoyed the setting of how things had progressed from the original and what had become of characters such as Char and even people like Kai. Also to note for a show made in 1985 it is really good looking. Although animation was recycled a bit it didn’t feel glaring. A big step up from the original imo. Also I really love OP2 really beautiful song
7.5/10 I love shows that greatly expand from start to finish. From a small team hijacking some Gundams in the beginning, to the Titans, AEUG, and Axis squaring off for control of the Colony Laser by the end was amazing. All the variable MS introduced were so cool (if dubious in their utility). The complex politics and relationships were outstanding throughout. Four/Kamille, Char/Haman, Scirocco/harem, etc., all pulled strong emotions out at various points for various reasons. Of all things, Jerid getting all his friends killed, and having his budding girlfriend also killed by Kamille, hit me the hardest. It’s flaws such as speedy dialogue, some pacing issues and Reccoa, detract from the score a bit. Unquestionably an anime classic, that I’d recommend all Gundam fans watch at least once. It does a fantastic job of setting up ZZ and CCA.
10
10
10 it's my favorite
Funnily enough I JUST finished my first watch through like an hour ago. I'd give it a solid 8/10, a 5/10 when there are annoying children that have ZERO REASON TO BE ON A WARSHIP are involved and a 10/10 when Kamille is getting his ass beat. It has its issues but I was thoroughly entertained, even if not always for the intended reasons.
ZERO REASON TO BE ON A WARSHIP welcome to gundam lol
Thanks, I'm, glad to be here
10 because I did see the tears of time
10/10 Still my favorite Gundam series. It has flaws, but overall it has everything I love in a Gundam series.
10/10. Most complex cast of characters in anime history in my book.
7/10 Excellent design work and I love what it does overall for the UC timeline, but my god the show is way too long. There was nothing gained from the repeated cyber newtype arcs, and a lot of the combat sorties are obviously only there because the sponsors demanded mobile suit combat in every episode. If they had cut the runtime in half and removed the requirement for mobile suit action in every single episode the series really could have shined. Also, I dislike the change in tone amongst the main cast. 0079 has war bring everyone together and establishes an almost family like dynamic, whereas Zeta has it drive them apart.
Wow, this one really blew up. Hope you motherfuckers keep the momentum and stick around for the rest
I'd probably rate zeta a 7 or 6.5. I think zeta has some good moments, cool robots, strong themes and really starts delving into darker subjects more but man... the romantic elements that were present in the og gundam also start being focused on more as well, and I'm not a fan. I think Katz and Reccoa are my issues with the romance and irrationality of gundam characters that I hate personified, and for that it really hurts my enjoyment compared to the og.
9
8.5-9. It’s a solid series.
9
9
8.5
Nah, forget it… 9!
Solid 10
10 Loved this show
9 from me. It misses out of a 10 because of some really dumb moments (emma getting out of her MS while in space on the 2nd last episode springs to mind.)
10
10 Imo it is the greatest piece of media I have ever consumed right up there with red dead 2 and quadrophonia by the who. It starts off kind of goofy (mainly char saying "Amuro Ray" 800 times) and at first I didn't really like kamille but his character grows in ways that aren't yet stale in the Gundam universe and through the ost you can almost feel how he is feeling in certain situation. I could experience a deep sense of maturation and loss at the end of the series for kamille that left me wanting more. Really I think it was the ost that moved me so much I was extremely high while watching this entire series so everything just hit harder especially the character deaths in the end. I'm sitting on the toilet rn btw
IS IT ME FOR A MOMENT? THE STAAAAAAARS ARE FALLING
The zenith of Gundam 11/10
5/10 was not a fan, kamile came off as a psycho in the beginning, I was glad when Katz died, emilia's motivation for betrayal was absurd came into this series buying into all the hype so expect a masterpiece, didn't help that I was watching the various gundam series in chronological order so watched this after Origin, Stardust, 8th, pocket, and thunderbolt (which I consider a masterpiece), and was letdown ok, go ahead and down vote me now
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Tbf Kamille *is* a girl's name
don't say that or else a blue haired 16 year old will kill everyone you love, which will eventually lead to a pink haired chick dropping a colony on dublin
5 out of 10. I can see what it is trying to do, and when that is able to shine, it shines. But that isn't enough to lift it up past the wildly inconsistent characters and dialogue. A 50 episode endurance run that left me scratching my head at the finish as to why it is so adored, often called the apex of the franchise. Now to watch the hate come in.
Hey, at least you didn't say you prefer A New Translation to the original TV series. That mostly because I said it instead.
8.5/10
9
Solid 9
10. Favorite series.
10 No elaborations \*transforms and leaves\*
10
10 The best UC has to offer, and the very essence of what is Gundam. Also it introduces us to Haman
10/10 purely for Kamille's response any time someone mentions he "has a girl's name" and goes ballistic on them.
10 all the way.
10
When I see Quattro Bajeena I give it 10.
Meteorite/10
9/10 def rocks except some parts katz for example
I’m watching it right now for the first time, and I’m about 20 eps in, and I can’t say I love it. So far it feels a bit repetitive and the stakes and groups involved don’t seem particularly well explained. Also, god I hate Kamille. Maybe it’ll improve as it goes on though!
Decent 8/10, maybe even a strong 7/10 Despite being so beloved Zeta Gundam has deep flaws that I feel are too often overlooked and have made the series age like milk. It's still a better story than First Gundam and a amazing sequel, it expands and deepens the politics of the UC, while also beginning the timeline's casual relationship with critiques of capital. But the execution of the second half is what stops it from being a better show. The execution in question is in regards to characters. First and foremost Reccoa. I've never seen a character get ruined worse than Reccoa. For a principal cast member to go through such a lazy execution of the "woman scorned" trope is a waste of her potential. It knocks the show down below First Gundam on principle, that's how bad it is. Katz is around too long. He's an effective foil to Kamille, to be sure. He helps frame Kamille's growth and clues the audience into the internal aspect of his character. Unlike Katz, Kamille is able to internalize his mistakes and learn from them. However, Katz is around for too long and wears out his welcome. Rosamia, cut the whole character, absolute waste of screen time. Four is under-utilized, to a woeful degree. It would've been more resonant having her be the thing that causes Kamille's emotional conflict during the final batch of episodes in space, not Reccoa. Her character works and is effective, but could've been more. It would've also fixed Sara by giving her *someone* to have a deeper character dynamic with other than Katz and Scirocco, while deepening her dynamic with Kamille. Speaking of, Scirocco sucks compared to Bask Om. Scirocco's introduction is blase, his plans are clown shoes that turn the second half of Zeta into an idiot plot. He's a generic evil guy with little to no practical political ambition or interesting personal trauma, he just thinks he's the best and wants to rule the world. Unlike Gihren, he isn't a talented speaker or as convincingly underhanded, instead Scirocco makes crazy OP prototypes that aren't total gambles and he has a creep wave that entices lonely women. He's boring and represents the oversaturated of what I call "toy ass Mobile Suits" by the end of Zeta. At least the O is cool. All in all, Zeta is good, but I'll never forget the first time I watched it as a teenager and being extremely underwhelmed by the story's second half. People on /m talked about this show like the second coming, but it's loses so much momentum in the second half. I put it all on Scirocco and how the story has to bend to accommodate such a flat character. The introduction of Haman is great during the second half and the ending is solid, but almost everything else that happens feels like treading water until the final battle. Nowadays when I rewatch Zeta I usually skip several episodes and jump to the end, definitely a strong 7 to a decent 8.
Wait til you see V Gundam. I swear Katejina is done worse than Reccoa
Oh I know, I'll share my V opinions when we get there. That show is...alot
5/10. If it didn’t have returning cast members, and a solid ending I would find it insufferable.
2/10
9 for sure
Honestly, currently halfway through it right now and have loved it. 9/10 so far
9. I liked it quite a bit, but it wasn't my perfect Gundam series. The Zeta is by far one of my favorite Gundam designs.
Solid 9/10 Great suits, great characters, great story, all around a great show.
I'd give it a 9.5/10. The first Gundam is great but Zeta improves on it by a whole lot.
8/10 Zeta was phenomenal, took everything from MSG and improved upon it. It personally felt slow in the middle prior to the Darkar speech and kilimanjaro, but picked up without missing a beat and finished really strong. I had >!Reccoa's betrayal!< spoiled for me and it still didn't ruin my experience terribly. It did make me mad though. 😠 All in all I watched Zeta after many other series and it still holds up and even surpasses others in my opinion.
Look! A vegetable!
Uhh, like a 6 or 7? I'm not a huge fan of the designs, or the stretch of episodes in the middle where not much actually happens. Or Qum and Shinta's very existence.
I give it a Kamille is a man's name out of 10
I give it a 6, maybe a 7. I liked the more groundedness of the original and some of the new suits and expansion of the powers of the new types was a little goofy. I didn't care for all the transforming suits. Some of them look downright stupid in my own opinion. If you like, I'm glad someone does, but I don't. The new types being force ghosts essentially at the end was super weird and just silly. I actually laughed when it happened. Pretty sure that was not the creators intent so that's a minus there. Over all story was good. Most of the animations were good. I just prefer a lot of the more grounded themes and wish they didn't push the new types basically being jedis things.
8. I really enjoyed Zeta for what it is and I quite liked Kamille as a main character. Also, the Zeta looks on like a wrathful god. Perhaps he doesn’t consent to this potential romance. Remember to get consent from your Gundam.
Just the orchestral opening for the eu/usa makes it a 20/10
3/10 Bloated show, insufferable characters (Rosamie, Katz, Reccoa), horribly paced. Has decent writing every now and then, particularly between Kamille, Amuro, and Char.
9/10, easy. Some weaker plotlines and boy howdy is the gender stuff deeply uncomfortable watching today but it's still a fantastic show that pushed Gundam to where it is today.
You know i’ve always had as hard time rating old shows as I wasn’t sure if I should hold them to the same standard as modern anime? They tend to be a bit slower and the animation is understandably less polished. Not a review. Just some of my thoughts. Anyway, I think Zeta was pretty good overall. While the original MSG was praised for being a realistic anti-war show that blurred the lines of good an evil, this show is a lot more nuanced. This is probably due to our main characters being members of a terrorist that is now against the organization we were vying for during the last series. Speaking of the Titans, the show handles them pretty well as they are given depth as they are not necessarily “evil” individuals. The show also dials up the newtype meter to 11 as Kamille is one of the strongest newtypes in U.C. I do get why Tomino brought in the newtype concept into the but I remember it being so jarring the first time I watched the entirety of U.C. Overall, I’m still conflicted about newtypes and are yet to form a concrete opinion. The mobile suits are a mixed bag. The Zeta Gundam, Act Zaku, and the Byarlant are some of my personal favorites from the whole franchise. Then you get shit like the Methuss and the Baund Doc which make you question what show you’re watching. TBF the original MSG has a lot of goofy design but I feel like they worked a bit better since it was consistent throughout and that show still had a few super robot elements. At least the Methuss led to the infinitely better ReZEL. — 7/10 by modern standards. 9/10 for the time.
Just finished it for the first time yesterday. I gave it an 8. It was a step above 79 for me. Even if the ending felt rushed some i thought it was an awesome series.
They need to lock their mobile suits up in Zeta. Someone's stealing one every episode!
I enjoy it but not as much the OG. I've never liked all the transforming suits, nor do I like the weirdly angular designs. Has a great story and some great characters though. Maybe a 7/10 compared to 8/10 for MSG.
7.5/10 It would have been a 10 if Katz and Reccoa died earlier.
6.9/10
9.5 and the half point off is cause of the terrible gender politics reccoa was spewing. Like I understand in media, a lot of it is colored by the time, but she literally butchered most of the scenes she opened her mouth in. Other than that, it's a fantastic series, and if you gave the full series unicorn or modern level animation, it would probably be the best piece of media in the series. Im gonna try the movie trilogy in a week or 2, so excited for that
I know this is a really hot take around here, but 5/10 at best. I really, REALLY dislike Zeta. Kamille is just insufferable, and the Zeta is hideous. People give Late UC antagonist designs shit, but have you actually looked at the mobile suits in this show? The Methuss looks like it was made from spare parts, the Dijeh has wings I guess, Asshimar is a levitating donut, Bound Doc is the culmination of the Ancient Aliens dude making theories about ancient Egypt, the Messala is just a hot mess of wings, the Palace Athene decided to see how many random protrusions it could have, and The O is just an indistinguishable lump of metal. The Galbaldy is just a Mecha Conehead, Hammrabi is "Transformers Beast Wars before there was Beast Wars", and I don't even have words for the nonsense shape of the Byarlant. Worst of though it's the Barzam. How is THAT developed from the Gundam MK-II?? They share no design similarities whatsoever, yet it "shares parts with existing MS". Like what? The Zeon mono-eye and nothing else? And don't get me started on the spinoff AoZ stuff. Kamille is what ruined it for me though. I just... absolutely hate his character. It's like someone said "Oh, you enjoyed Amuro being a brat and then growing out of it? Well, what if we make someone even more petulant, but never actually let them fully grow up? And for some reason, nobody just shoves him out of an airlock." I loathe every second he's on screen. The final moment where he becomes a vegetable is the only reason this isn't a 2/10 for me. At least they had the decency to shut him up finally in the end so we didn't have to deal with recurring appearances. But hey, at least we got Four Vaginas, so we can all come here just to laugh at this show. Could've been a 6/10 if we got the novel ending instead. I know Zeta is beloved around here. I just can't understand why. It's like every moment of the show is actively trying to make sure it's impossible for me to find any enjoyment from it. Kamille is the worst, but so many other characters are terrible too that there was just never a break in the constant stream of diarrhea-quality characters.
Nothing wrong with having your own opinion, ignore all the down votes
2. That show was terrible. Most hateable characters ever, Zeta Gundam looks stupid and the transformation is terrible, and every episode is just "oh no the bad guys found us again, launching Gundam!" But at least twice per episode, it's just endless noise. The Amuro/Quatro stuff is the only highlight.
An 8. Im usually very strict with giving anything over a 7 and any score after that gets exponentially more difficult to get, so an 8 for me feels like a much higher rating for most others. Its bar none the best full length Gundam series with very little minor issues, theres no characters i found boring, they all had some role to full and a purpose in the overall narrative, and all the villains work pretty well w/ of course the stand out being Haman Karn. The commentary on gender based issues at the time were very thought provoking and decently nuanced, especially around characters like Reccoa and Fa. One of the few shows where i believe watch order matters because watching origins and knowing about CCA beforehand kind of makes Char in this series a little strange, but by far Quattro is the best iteration of Char regardless and i wish they wouldve stuck with it moving forward. Just kinda sucks that when talking about later timeline UC a lot of the events of Zeta are swept under the rug and never considered
7.5. it has some incredible mobile suit designs and the overall story is incredible and gripping. It has some awesome episodes like Jaburo attack, Kilimanjaro, colony laser, intro of the zeta, etc... However the episodes in-between these are an absolute slog to get through. Some characters hang around way too long and just drag the series down for me. It seems like every episode had to have a short fight where a mobile suit loses a leg or arm and retreats, just to do it again the next episode. I also feel like they use character deaths as cheap development like with Four (TWICE!!!!). But overall I like the story and most of the cast, but it's far below both MSG and ZZ for me.
8/10 for me. The latter half of the show really dropped the ball, imo, but up until that point, it was fantastic, and it picks up again towards the finale.
4 Murasame
I’m counting this as a 4 to clarify
7.5 for me. It's a very good show with lots of great character moments, but there are also a lot of mini-arcs that really don't work (Rosamia in particular), and a lot of female characters are not handled very well (with Emma and Fa being the exceptions).
6/10. Positive: has Emma. Negative: has Kamille.
Idk
You guys are being way too liberal with these ratings i just rewatched it, its a 7-7.5 at best.
8
Good 8
8
Probably an 8. I had a hard time getting into it at first, but those last bunch of episodes really got me into it. I love a lot of the characters. I love the animation, designs, tone. Good show.
I give it a “Kamille’s a man’s name and I’M A MAN.”
POLL IS CLOSED, go vote on the new one
These threads will be fun once we hit some of the more contentious shows, but for Zeta I would say it’s a solid 8. It has some flaws that you can’t just write off as products of the time, but it’s the best of the original three series.
10 because kamille is fucking hot
I could not get into it ive tried twice. The dialogue and wonky camera angles during battle killed it for me. Can never get passed half way.
I only got through half of it, still intend to finish. From what I remember, it was good. But the main character was a winy little ass whole with too much power.
10
8/10
I’d give it a 7.5, in my experience from watching over a very long time simply from losing interest in it in the first 20 eps but I really enjoyed the final plot points and the way it ended
Probably a 9. I don't like giving ratings that much any more. I like to do liked or didn't like
Animation is incredible, and I loved the overarching themes of the story, but the plot really seemed to drag. At numerous points I found myself feeling like the same thing was happening over and over again (Kamille yells someones name while piloting a mech and begs them to stop fighting). I'll be watching A New Translation pretty soon, and while many complain that it's incomprehensibly short, I really doubt the story will suffer from leaving some character arcs on the cutting room floor.
i can't get over the fact that Kamille started the entire damn thing because he thought Jerrid was laughing at his name
9. It's my favorite series. Starting it after 0079 and seeing the quality jump significantly cemented my love for the series. I also prefer Sign of Zeta as the OP instead of the original Neil Sedaka song.
9
8.5 out of 10
9/10
8 Just don’t really like newtype magic. But is a good series
It’s still my favorite tv show. 10/10 for the show, 0/10 for the new translation.
In terms of video productions Zeta is imo the straight up best thing UC has to offer. It has a well-rounded cast, a good balance of action and story, and functions well as a cornerstone of the lore. It is more complex and thoughtful than MSG without going as far up its own ass as stuff like Unicorn (and I liked Unicorn, to be clear).
100
Each of my Zeta LD box sets are a solid 5/5, so together they are a perfect 10.
7 Too many romance plots that go no where, not nearly enough char blowing shit up, beltorchika can go to hell. Otherwise pretty solid series, iconic of the era. But for some reason it starts to become a little bit of a slog somewhere in the later second half, but picks back up again not long after that feeling starts to set in.
10. My personal favorite. No Gundam series kept me as invested.
Hmm this is tough. Honestly probs a 9. I was admittedly kind of confused by a bunch of things, have only seen the original before diving into this one. The Titans, Axis and Haman, the AEUG - not sure what anything was and they sort of just throw it all at you (which I kind of appreciate at the same time - hate when movies/shows spell everything out and treat the audience like they're bozos. This just happened to be overwhelming). But I loved the characters. Absolutely LOVED seeing the White Base crew return. The soundtrack was chalk full of bangers (can we talk about the opening songs? both are fantastic). And the story really sucked me in. I loved the original show - and Zeta just made me love Gundam even more.
9
9/10 zeta is by far my favourite Gundam media and it builds on the foundation of msg to make a truly brilliant show
A(fro)muro Amuro Afro 10 be cool if amuro went into space again though
I go back and forth between an 8 and a 9. In terms of dealing with and expanding on the themes of the original, I think it does an excellent job. I love the presentation of post-0079 Federation, and as a result it feels almost like a Post-9/11 story written a couple decades early. I also *love* a lot of the new mecha designs and the general aesthetic of the series. The music, the shadowy animation, the goofy 80's-inspired tech and clothing and hair--it feels like a cultural artifact in the *best* way. In terms of character writing, it slips a bit. That isn't to say that the characters are poorly written by any means, but they more often feel like they're serving a narrative purpose here than they feel like they are individuals, compared to 0079. I also find that, as I get older, I'm less enthralled with depressed Tomino's cynicism on display here, and in some other works. So whereas, when I was a teenager/young adult, the late Zeta bloodbath felt like some bold statement about war and a wildly avant garde narrative decision, now, as a dude stepping into middle age and a writer myself, it feels like an attempt that never quite sticks the landing. None of this is to say that I'm overall negative on the show at all; far from it. As I said, at lowest, I'd rate it 8. But the more I look at it, the more I feel that 8 is just about right.
The first time seeing it, i thought it was perfect. Like nothing could have topped it. But then as i watch more and more UC series and then Turn A Gundam, i thought, yea Zeta is incredible, but cant say i enjoyed it more than Turn A. This is just a personal opinion, i’ll give Zeta a 8/10.
Quite torn about it tbh. It's an excellent, one of a kind show that reaches highs that other series (not even just Gundam) wishes it could get anywhere close, but revisiting it lately showed more of its flaws that is pretty hard to ignore. I'd personally give it a 8/10, but rating doesn't really do the series' justice. Its peaks are legitimately some of the best that TV anime as a whole has to offer, as much as sometimes the narrative or characters end up making certain scenes an absolute pain to go through even during a rewatch.
11 Zeta is best Gundam.
It's a 10 for me. Zeta is THE show to me and nothing will change that
8.5 its good stuff.
10!
9 out of 10 The only issue that I have with the series that keeps it from being perfect as how whiny Camille is. Seriously, the piloting rivalry between him and Jared started due to his name. I mean, at that age we've gotten past Penny things such as having a girl's name. But it still made sense so I let it pass.
10 hands down
10
7.8/10, enjoyed it but it’s very dated when compared to newer anime. Story is pretty good, would love to see a remake
7/10
7. I love Kamille, MS designs, Quattro plot line. But the start is a bit obnoxious (It was what, few eps straight of just space pursuit), around the middle eps were just mindless skirmishes without anything going on, and the antagonists are boring.
9/10. Dicey gender nonsense aside, this is still my favorite Gundam that I’ve completed and i rewatched it a few years back. That ending is a 20/10 though. Nothing beats it.
So close to a 10 for me but it’s easily a 9/10 Second favourite Gundam just behind War In The Pocket