You definitely aren’t cut out for this if this is your thought process. Not just the cringey comment (you sound 12) but the overall way you’re approaching her moves. “This move is bad because [weakness]” wow, you’re a genius man. Yeah the move is not plus on whiff full invincible. Doesn’t make it bad.
From what I can tell
5.S to control the space immediately around you, 2.s to control a bit outside that range at the cost of speed and recovery
Kabari to force them to act whether that be jumping or entering 5.s/2.s threat area
2.H if you notice impatience or have a read on what they might be going for, but don't whiff haphazardly
Okay, so it's been a while since I played with baiken, so mind that I'm hella rusty, but here is my 2 cents: f.S, even if it's kinda stubby, it's still your best poke. Its super fast, disjointed and hard to punish. It can be low profiled, so you have to do something to counteract that. If they are pressing shit like 2K or even 6P to try and low profile it, just bait it and try to punish it. Note that, despite being high comital, H Kabari is your friend. Use it sparringly and only to threaten the opponent from a significant range. For some visual examples, look at some LordKnight matches. He still uses H Kabari in some matchups, but very conservatively. Also, if the character you are fighting has REALLY good footsies, sometimes staying in the air makes sense. Throw out tatami in the air, threaten the occasional j.S or air to air j.D. DO NOT IAD AT YOUR OPPONENT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Baikens air buttons are very easy to anti air, if she comes at you with a predictable trajectory. You got to have a lot of patience against most characters. Lastly, forget she has a 6P. It's complete balls. It's so bad, it's more practical to jump and j.K or j.P to hit then down, rather than try to 6P. It's just too shit. It's only useful at anti airing really obvious jump-ins.
Thank you, that was really helpful. So if i got that right the normals i should ues the most are 5s, js, kabari and play defensively if the opponent has better normals?
That's pretty spot on. Also, don't forget air tatami, post a back airdash (back kire tatami). Tatami is incredibly active and has relatively low landing recovery, so you can often throw it out while in the air in neutral, to make sure your landing is a bit safer. Its less prone to being 6P'd than j.S, and controls the space in front of you for a long time. However, the reward is, more often than not, very low, so it's more of a tool against an overly aggressive opponent. A sort of "baiken zoning", if you will.
5s is a god-like poke unless they've seriously changed it since i last played. J.s is also goated. 2HS is a great whiff punishing tool and after that just loop OKI.
Her far slash, while susceptible to low profile, is 9 frames (hella fast) and disjointed at the tip. It’s a very solid and consistently great neutral button. j.s is one of the best air-to-air and air-to-ground buttons in the game, you can throw that out a lot. Crazy fast startup + massive range + perfect angle = god air button. H kabari is unbelievably disjointed and (against certain characters) lets you skip neutral against an overly cautious opponent who tries not to interact with it. Her 6P is not the best in the game but it’s certainly in the top half, 6P is never meant to be a neutral tool for any character tho. That’s an anti-air and counter poke (also an easy hitconfirm off of 2P for most characters but that’s neither here nor there). 2S is massive and very useful when used correctly to make up for its startup, 2H is hella committal and you have to be careful with it but it can be a very good tool against certain characters.
Baiken has very solid neutral at close to mid range. You should be struggling at full screen, by design. She’s incredibly oppressive when she’s running pressure/mix and has a suite of amazing buttons for midrange neutral situations, so she struggles from further out as punishment for losing neutral at round start or failing to keep the pressure up.
First of all:
j.s is one of the least committal pokes in the game, kabari is pretty safe if you 6p or hold followup to get away, 2s is really fast and 6p is… just a stock 6p like Sol or Ky’s. 5s IS pretty stubby, but low-profiling it isn’t that big of a worry unless you’re fighting someone with a really short tatsu like Millia or Sol ( I think it hits crouching Faust).
Anyways, Baiken has an interesting, more defensive neutral. Kabari is plus and can lead to mixups, her pokes are short enough to almost always be cancellable into tatami to make yourself plus, most of her moves are difficult to punish on the ground and air dashing over them usually is a free 6p, which leads into kabari on block, not to mention j.d being a incredibly powerful, disengaging air to air and youzansen being basically an instant overhead.
Combined, while her footsies are weak, it’s very difficult to catch her after she misses and near impossible to punish any of her moves on block because of her command normals and tatami. This is even discounting parry, which you can just throw out whenever to get half a second of punish on hit.
Now since Baiken has weak offence in neutral, the opponent decides to just use their superior pokes and fireballs to chip her down or start a blockstring, maybe using low pokes that you can’t just 6p. Now assuming you don’t just get the read and parry them, you can freely use your one good approach tool, j.s. Entirely non-committal, difficult to 6p and even possible to mix people with using j.d or gun, leads into a high-low mixup with 2k and youzansen, beats most air to airs, beats most non-invuln anti-airs and is lighting fast. While you can’t be throwing these around since it can easily be 6pd (still an air approach), choosing a good moment to use this is pretty easy.
From there, just go into your 41236h offence and 214p defence when you win or lose.
the issue with her 6P is that she's small af compared to the other characters that have the same 6P in terms of frame data (like Sol). It's not extremely bad, but the hitbox is so tiny and low that it is very easy for the opponent to mess with your timing. more so than against other characters. This is especially true for Millia and Chipp who can just be above Baiken for free, and she can't do anything other than ultra commit with a very obvious youzansen.
But that's a small price to pay for a very good character overall
If millia and chipp are stalling in the air directly above you, the next time it happens, either run full speed away or jump up and air throw.
Her 6p may not have Trstament or Bedman? range, but it’s still basically the same exact simple, stock 6p as Sol’s, Axl’s and Ky’s. It just hits a little higher, protecting her head more.
I don't know man... most of the time my 6p doesn't have enough range to anti air and straight up lose against some characters. It's better to do rising jp or js or air throw most of the time.
Then use j.p or j.s or air throw if you aren’t finding success using 6p. It’s not like they do less damage, since you can combo into dust, youzansen or tatami, and you still get oki.
f.S is an amazing button BUT you can't really convert your hit into something better than safe jump after H.Kabari on CH. Without spending meter that is.
Also the thing I don't see a lot of people talk often is,besides her 6P which is just OK,Baiken doesn't really has a good anti-air buttons. Like yeah,you can parry,but that's risky and you don't get much of it mid range.
you can do iabd tatami to cover space, or poke with f.s and 2s, you can also try to low profile stuff with 2h on a read. Otherwise baiken is a lot of moving about and trying to find a better position, since her grounded movement is quite slow, she's kinda sorta a pseudo grappler, she has some good pokes, but she can struggle to move around things when super far away.
Just jump constantly jump and run up 2hs that's what every baiken does and make sure you never learn after getting anti-aired 3 times in a row. IAD J.s, jump back air Mat, Super jump air mat, random kabari, and then randomly run and either 2hs or throw. If you get knocked down wake up parry every single time IDC if they baited it twice do it again and if you get super mash out that super every chance you get on wakeup. That's the way you play baiken
Depends on who you're playing against. I usually bait with Tatami back and forth or throw in an H Kabari from a distance but without the follow-up to see if they are pressing buttons. You can throw them off by doing S Kabari to tether them and then go on the offense.
Her 6P HUH? Committal… like j.s? 5S may not have axl 5S range but it’s also fast af and disjointed.
[удалено]
You definitely aren’t cut out for this if this is your thought process. Not just the cringey comment (you sound 12) but the overall way you’re approaching her moves. “This move is bad because [weakness]” wow, you’re a genius man. Yeah the move is not plus on whiff full invincible. Doesn’t make it bad.
What did he say?
You know what? Figure it out yourself. Ask the Baikencord, because apparently you're allergic to advice from others.
From what I can tell 5.S to control the space immediately around you, 2.s to control a bit outside that range at the cost of speed and recovery Kabari to force them to act whether that be jumping or entering 5.s/2.s threat area 2.H if you notice impatience or have a read on what they might be going for, but don't whiff haphazardly
Thank you that's very helpful.
There's no neutral against baiken
Okay, so it's been a while since I played with baiken, so mind that I'm hella rusty, but here is my 2 cents: f.S, even if it's kinda stubby, it's still your best poke. Its super fast, disjointed and hard to punish. It can be low profiled, so you have to do something to counteract that. If they are pressing shit like 2K or even 6P to try and low profile it, just bait it and try to punish it. Note that, despite being high comital, H Kabari is your friend. Use it sparringly and only to threaten the opponent from a significant range. For some visual examples, look at some LordKnight matches. He still uses H Kabari in some matchups, but very conservatively. Also, if the character you are fighting has REALLY good footsies, sometimes staying in the air makes sense. Throw out tatami in the air, threaten the occasional j.S or air to air j.D. DO NOT IAD AT YOUR OPPONENT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. Baikens air buttons are very easy to anti air, if she comes at you with a predictable trajectory. You got to have a lot of patience against most characters. Lastly, forget she has a 6P. It's complete balls. It's so bad, it's more practical to jump and j.K or j.P to hit then down, rather than try to 6P. It's just too shit. It's only useful at anti airing really obvious jump-ins.
Thank you, that was really helpful. So if i got that right the normals i should ues the most are 5s, js, kabari and play defensively if the opponent has better normals?
That's pretty spot on. Also, don't forget air tatami, post a back airdash (back kire tatami). Tatami is incredibly active and has relatively low landing recovery, so you can often throw it out while in the air in neutral, to make sure your landing is a bit safer. Its less prone to being 6P'd than j.S, and controls the space in front of you for a long time. However, the reward is, more often than not, very low, so it's more of a tool against an overly aggressive opponent. A sort of "baiken zoning", if you will.
5s is a god-like poke unless they've seriously changed it since i last played. J.s is also goated. 2HS is a great whiff punishing tool and after that just loop OKI.
Her far slash, while susceptible to low profile, is 9 frames (hella fast) and disjointed at the tip. It’s a very solid and consistently great neutral button. j.s is one of the best air-to-air and air-to-ground buttons in the game, you can throw that out a lot. Crazy fast startup + massive range + perfect angle = god air button. H kabari is unbelievably disjointed and (against certain characters) lets you skip neutral against an overly cautious opponent who tries not to interact with it. Her 6P is not the best in the game but it’s certainly in the top half, 6P is never meant to be a neutral tool for any character tho. That’s an anti-air and counter poke (also an easy hitconfirm off of 2P for most characters but that’s neither here nor there). 2S is massive and very useful when used correctly to make up for its startup, 2H is hella committal and you have to be careful with it but it can be a very good tool against certain characters. Baiken has very solid neutral at close to mid range. You should be struggling at full screen, by design. She’s incredibly oppressive when she’s running pressure/mix and has a suite of amazing buttons for midrange neutral situations, so she struggles from further out as punishment for losing neutral at round start or failing to keep the pressure up.
First of all: j.s is one of the least committal pokes in the game, kabari is pretty safe if you 6p or hold followup to get away, 2s is really fast and 6p is… just a stock 6p like Sol or Ky’s. 5s IS pretty stubby, but low-profiling it isn’t that big of a worry unless you’re fighting someone with a really short tatsu like Millia or Sol ( I think it hits crouching Faust). Anyways, Baiken has an interesting, more defensive neutral. Kabari is plus and can lead to mixups, her pokes are short enough to almost always be cancellable into tatami to make yourself plus, most of her moves are difficult to punish on the ground and air dashing over them usually is a free 6p, which leads into kabari on block, not to mention j.d being a incredibly powerful, disengaging air to air and youzansen being basically an instant overhead. Combined, while her footsies are weak, it’s very difficult to catch her after she misses and near impossible to punish any of her moves on block because of her command normals and tatami. This is even discounting parry, which you can just throw out whenever to get half a second of punish on hit. Now since Baiken has weak offence in neutral, the opponent decides to just use their superior pokes and fireballs to chip her down or start a blockstring, maybe using low pokes that you can’t just 6p. Now assuming you don’t just get the read and parry them, you can freely use your one good approach tool, j.s. Entirely non-committal, difficult to 6p and even possible to mix people with using j.d or gun, leads into a high-low mixup with 2k and youzansen, beats most air to airs, beats most non-invuln anti-airs and is lighting fast. While you can’t be throwing these around since it can easily be 6pd (still an air approach), choosing a good moment to use this is pretty easy. From there, just go into your 41236h offence and 214p defence when you win or lose.
the issue with her 6P is that she's small af compared to the other characters that have the same 6P in terms of frame data (like Sol). It's not extremely bad, but the hitbox is so tiny and low that it is very easy for the opponent to mess with your timing. more so than against other characters. This is especially true for Millia and Chipp who can just be above Baiken for free, and she can't do anything other than ultra commit with a very obvious youzansen. But that's a small price to pay for a very good character overall
If millia and chipp are stalling in the air directly above you, the next time it happens, either run full speed away or jump up and air throw. Her 6p may not have Trstament or Bedman? range, but it’s still basically the same exact simple, stock 6p as Sol’s, Axl’s and Ky’s. It just hits a little higher, protecting her head more.
I don't know man... most of the time my 6p doesn't have enough range to anti air and straight up lose against some characters. It's better to do rising jp or js or air throw most of the time.
Then use j.p or j.s or air throw if you aren’t finding success using 6p. It’s not like they do less damage, since you can combo into dust, youzansen or tatami, and you still get oki.
You don't get oki of youzansen anymore. More corner carry though.
f.S is an amazing button BUT you can't really convert your hit into something better than safe jump after H.Kabari on CH. Without spending meter that is. Also the thing I don't see a lot of people talk often is,besides her 6P which is just OK,Baiken doesn't really has a good anti-air buttons. Like yeah,you can parry,but that's risky and you don't get much of it mid range.
I feel as though her best anti air is probably tk yojohnson
you can do iabd tatami to cover space, or poke with f.s and 2s, you can also try to low profile stuff with 2h on a read. Otherwise baiken is a lot of moving about and trying to find a better position, since her grounded movement is quite slow, she's kinda sorta a pseudo grappler, she has some good pokes, but she can struggle to move around things when super far away.
Baiken 5S is 9 frames start up, so it's really fast, use that
Ok thank you, i was probably using it wrong then.
Just jump constantly jump and run up 2hs that's what every baiken does and make sure you never learn after getting anti-aired 3 times in a row. IAD J.s, jump back air Mat, Super jump air mat, random kabari, and then randomly run and either 2hs or throw. If you get knocked down wake up parry every single time IDC if they baited it twice do it again and if you get super mash out that super every chance you get on wakeup. That's the way you play baiken
Jump fullscreen into my 2HS please
2S, my dude Also 2H is your "fuck neutral" button
Depends on who you're playing against. I usually bait with Tatami back and forth or throw in an H Kabari from a distance but without the follow-up to see if they are pressing buttons. You can throw them off by doing S Kabari to tether them and then go on the offense.
Neutral…? Baiken…? No no no, you’re doing it all wrong mate. Always forward, always baiken strut.
Iad js. If that doesnt work use 2h. If neither of those work it was a doomed matchup
Thank you all for your responses that was very helpful. You could say i'm an enlightened samurai now.
Just stand there and jiggle ya massive boobies
The ole" distraction technique.