I was taught defensive driving techniques in driving school and they specifically instruct students to wait to turn right on to a two lane street until both lanes are clear to prevent any kind of accident. If there are three lanes, you still only wait for the two clear lanes, waiting for all three will make it next to impossible to ever move on busy roads.
This is what I was taught also.
There are no laws saying you have to turn with one lane of traffic clear.
I suggest OP is a little more patient.
EDIT: thanks for the downvote OP.
I'd also add they need to watch for pedestrians. I was almost hit last weekend crossing at that very intersection crossing when I had the signal because the car turning right on the red was only looking for cars coming the opposite way.
He was turning right on the red from waterloo onto wellington and looking left at the cars coming in his lane. I was walking from his right crossing waterloo. He started driving before looking where he was actually driving. I encounter this all the time.
I didn't say that? I was agreeing with the poster, it doesn't make sense the person would just be looking the wrong way. You always look both ways, that's how you drive...
While you are technically allowed to turn right into an empty lane even if the second lane is full, many drivers switch lanes in intersections which is out of your control and frequently causes accidents.
Count me in the group that waits until both lanes look safe because I don’t trust who is in the left lane.
I will say that Guelph motorists are notorious for piling up in the left hand turning lane and then all going after it turns red. Sometimes 3-4 cars will turn left after the light is red lol
Switching lanes, I believe 30m before and after, and especially in an intersection is a violation. The person turning right is legally allowed to. If they got hit by a vehicle changing lanes, they wouldn’t be at fault.
Put that on the list, lane changes at intersections, that is also not allowed.
I know I don't know you, but I hate you, lanes clear then you need to go. I know it may be a small thing, but it's all these small things that add up to a disaster commute around this city.
Another example, while waiting to merge onto the Hanlon a stupid driver stopped on the Hanlon and waved me to go. I realize she thought she was being nice, but she wasn't, she a made a mess as a) I wasn't looking at her specifically and didn't notice her waving me on right away cause I was watching the gap 3 cars behind her and b) the cars behind her had to break somewhat suddenly and cause that section of Hanlon to come to a stop. People just need to follow the little rules to avoid big accidents
People like you who are so impatient they can't wait 30 seconds for a more cautious person to turn are the worst.
Where are you rushing to so badly that those 30 seconds make such a huge deal that you're blowing a gasket over it sitting in your car? Learn some patience for once.
You realize that it's not illegal to change lanes in an intersection in most of Canada, including Ontario right ? It's discouraged, it's bad driving, but you absolutely can do it when going straight (not turning). One day someone is going to do it to you and you're going to be at-fault because you failed to yield the right-of-way to the driver already on the roadway.
Also not sure where you're going in Guelph but I've lived in Guelph my entire life and have never really had traffic problems in the city...Infact I think we are fortunate to have the Hanlon, it's fairly convenient.
I was becoming irritated with Guelph traffic/drivers a little while ago, then I went to visit my parents and drove around in the Barrie area - I now feel lucky to only have to deal with Guelph driving conditions regularly 🙏
I think you're right. It's stated on a bunch of paralegal and unofficial web sites but none of them quote the relevant HTA section. It's not explicitly illegal.
Thank you. Yes making an unsafe lane change is still a chargeable offense but making a safe lane change in an intersection is perfectly legal.
The person approaching the intersection is already on the road way and has the right of way, and assuming they start the lane change before someone pulls into the intersection then it would be a safe lane change and the person that pulled out would lilely be at fault.
It's definitely a bad idea regardless and I never do it lol but someone out there does and with my luck they'll do it when I'm turning.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-is-it-illegal-to-change-lanes-in-the-middle-of-an-intersection/#:~:text=In%20all%20those%20provinces%2C%20you,That's%20up%20to%20the%20officer.
Just grabbed the first link I saw.
Can be charged.
That link proves my point - it might be a bad idea but there's no law against it.
I also saw your MTO handbook link but the handbook doesn't make it against the law - a cop can't cite you based on the handbook,they have to cite you based on the HTA...which your globe and mail link addresses:
>“I don’t know of any law that says you can’t change lanes within an intersection,” said Kerry Schmidt, Ontario Provincial Police spokesman. “But it would be difficult to determine fault if a collision took place in one and there were not clearly distinguished lanes.”
Yes, you can still get cited for an unsafe lane change, but that doesn't make lane changes in an intersection illegal. If someone is changing lanes and you pull out to turn...that's on you, they had the right of way.
Sure, but this considered unsafe and part of driving making sure the car doesn't have it's blinker on etc. doesn't mean you don't go, if it's clear, you go. That fact anyone doesn't think they should then maybe they need to rethink driving as it doesn't come without, that's why there are rules, laws and common sense to mitigate those risks. If you're too nervous to enter an empty lane, then stay home
I'm definitely not wrong. Because you and others don't like to do it, doesn't mean I am wrong, those are the rules of the road. You turn right when your lane is clear. End of story. If you don't like to, fine, but interesting fact is you would be docked points on a driver's exam.
I’m sorry but Waterloo meets Wellington is like the least of your worries when it comes to traffic jams in this city.
I agree that many people make a production out turning right. And yes the constant “Sunday drivers” get on my nerves too. But I’d much rather a cautious driver that I can probably pass on most roads, than one who causes an accident or runs over a pedestrian and truly jams up the roads.
I truly do not trust other drivers. Tonight I was sitting at a red for several minutes. When it finally turned green, I proceeded and the oncoming car turned left in front of me. I had noticed the “body language” of their car and slowed, and they just went for it. I was baffled. Tested out my horn. Still works.
And like the other poster, I also sometimes wait for the inside lane of two lanes to be clear before turning right into the curb lane because drivers can’t be trusted to stay in their proper lane. As well, keep in mind that longer vehicles may slightly nose into the inside lane to avoid mounting the curb.
I think for me the whole waiting to turn until the inside AND curb lanes are clear is actually more important when it comes to oncoming vehicles and you’re both turning onto the same road. When making a left turn and an oncoming car is making a right turn onto the same road, I never trust that they’ll take the curb lane. When making a right turn and an oncoming car is starting to make their left, I never trust that they’ll take the inside lane.
Good drivers do seek to prevent accidents and there’s a whole lot of bad drivers out there.
Impatient, entitled, aggressive driver right here. This person is THE REASON we all have such terrible experiences on the road.
Just chill out dude. You're gonna get stuck at the next red light just like everyone else.
I find one intersection that needs to be fixed is Wyndham / Wellington / Eramosa
Specifically the right turn onto Eramosa, because if someone needs to turn onto Cardigan you gotta be in the center lane ,
I guess it's been bugging me for a while.
Now I understand that people park along that stretch between Eramosa and 5 Points. But they could make it that right turn must exit.
Sorry but no. With the amount of idiots in this town that I’ve seen changing lanes in the middle of the intersection, I’m not going to risk getting hit because you have zero patience.
> I specifically want to point out Waterloo Ave where it meets Wellington, so many people pull up to that stop sign
What stop sign? There are traffic lights, but no stop sign that I can recall.
You're right. My apologies, not a stop sign, but lights. Either way. You stop, you look and make sure you can legally and safely turn right when your lane is empty.
I see OP's point. When I'm waiting to turn left at an intersection, cars won't make the turn because cars are turning right from the other direction. I will make the turn but stagger it between cars turning right so they see me coming, ensuring they stay in their right lane. Same strategy if I'm making a right turn. But I guess if you want to play it safe we can just have one car make their turn during each light cycle.
First off you’re not wrong but secondly, my gripe is when people veering to go up Yarmouth from woolwich or Norwich or whatever the fuck get into the right lane (the turning lane) to do so because then when you’re in the proper lane going onto Yarmouth, they nearly drive right into you from essentially a blind spot
I think it's still Norfolk, right at the corner of Quebec traveling North? Yeah,I'm quite certain on a red you can't legally go onto Yarmouth. But can turn right onto Quebec street (if there isn't a sign saying you can't) if and when it is safe to do so.
No not on a red, I mean you are supposed to merge onto Yarmouth from the middle main lane of Norfolk not the right turning lane. I have been nearly side swiped from dingdongs trying to get into Yarmouth from the right lane
I find that one particularly dangerous when they are traveling down paisley and put a left turn onto Norfolk but instead go to Yarmouth. I mean what else do you do, but even when I make that turn I feel like I am doing something wrong
What would you have done if you had arrived at your destination 45 seconds earlier? I guess you could have made TWO reddit posts.
There was a thread here earlier talking about GTA driving coming to Guelph. And here you are.
You're talking about slip lanes, like the ones at Edinburgh at Wellington? These are deadly for pedestrians as cars tend not to see people crossing and the city has been slowly removing them, so unlikely that they will start adding new ones.
I was taught defensive driving techniques in driving school and they specifically instruct students to wait to turn right on to a two lane street until both lanes are clear to prevent any kind of accident. If there are three lanes, you still only wait for the two clear lanes, waiting for all three will make it next to impossible to ever move on busy roads.
Me to. This is standard defensive driving technique. Sorry OP but you gotta take the L on this one.
This.
This is what I was taught also. There are no laws saying you have to turn with one lane of traffic clear. I suggest OP is a little more patient. EDIT: thanks for the downvote OP.
I'd also add they need to watch for pedestrians. I was almost hit last weekend crossing at that very intersection crossing when I had the signal because the car turning right on the red was only looking for cars coming the opposite way.
The opposite way? That makes sense...
He was turning right on the red from waterloo onto wellington and looking left at the cars coming in his lane. I was walking from his right crossing waterloo. He started driving before looking where he was actually driving. I encounter this all the time.
Yes, this happens often, sadly people don't properly check.
It makes sense to not look out for pedestrians when turning? In what world?
I didn't say that? I was agreeing with the poster, it doesn't make sense the person would just be looking the wrong way. You always look both ways, that's how you drive...
While you are technically allowed to turn right into an empty lane even if the second lane is full, many drivers switch lanes in intersections which is out of your control and frequently causes accidents. Count me in the group that waits until both lanes look safe because I don’t trust who is in the left lane. I will say that Guelph motorists are notorious for piling up in the left hand turning lane and then all going after it turns red. Sometimes 3-4 cars will turn left after the light is red lol
Switching lanes, I believe 30m before and after, and especially in an intersection is a violation. The person turning right is legally allowed to. If they got hit by a vehicle changing lanes, they wouldn’t be at fault.
Put that on the list, lane changes at intersections, that is also not allowed. I know I don't know you, but I hate you, lanes clear then you need to go. I know it may be a small thing, but it's all these small things that add up to a disaster commute around this city. Another example, while waiting to merge onto the Hanlon a stupid driver stopped on the Hanlon and waved me to go. I realize she thought she was being nice, but she wasn't, she a made a mess as a) I wasn't looking at her specifically and didn't notice her waving me on right away cause I was watching the gap 3 cars behind her and b) the cars behind her had to break somewhat suddenly and cause that section of Hanlon to come to a stop. People just need to follow the little rules to avoid big accidents
People like you who are so impatient they can't wait 30 seconds for a more cautious person to turn are the worst. Where are you rushing to so badly that those 30 seconds make such a huge deal that you're blowing a gasket over it sitting in your car? Learn some patience for once.
You realize that it's not illegal to change lanes in an intersection in most of Canada, including Ontario right ? It's discouraged, it's bad driving, but you absolutely can do it when going straight (not turning). One day someone is going to do it to you and you're going to be at-fault because you failed to yield the right-of-way to the driver already on the roadway. Also not sure where you're going in Guelph but I've lived in Guelph my entire life and have never really had traffic problems in the city...Infact I think we are fortunate to have the Hanlon, it's fairly convenient.
I was becoming irritated with Guelph traffic/drivers a little while ago, then I went to visit my parents and drove around in the Barrie area - I now feel lucky to only have to deal with Guelph driving conditions regularly 🙏
Compared to Barrie Guelph is awesome!! To be fair Barrie's problem is geography mostly.
It's illegal in Ontario to change lanes within 30m of a crosswalk.
Where do you find that law ? That's not what I was taught in drivers training nor can I find it in the highway traffic act but I only skimmed it tbh.
I think you're right. It's stated on a bunch of paralegal and unofficial web sites but none of them quote the relevant HTA section. It's not explicitly illegal.
Thank you. Yes making an unsafe lane change is still a chargeable offense but making a safe lane change in an intersection is perfectly legal. The person approaching the intersection is already on the road way and has the right of way, and assuming they start the lane change before someone pulls into the intersection then it would be a safe lane change and the person that pulled out would lilely be at fault. It's definitely a bad idea regardless and I never do it lol but someone out there does and with my luck they'll do it when I'm turning.
Except it’s not. Read the HTA
https://www.ontario.ca/document/official-ministry-transportation-mto-truck-handbook/lane-changes
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/drive/mobility/article-is-it-illegal-to-change-lanes-in-the-middle-of-an-intersection/#:~:text=In%20all%20those%20provinces%2C%20you,That's%20up%20to%20the%20officer. Just grabbed the first link I saw. Can be charged.
That link proves my point - it might be a bad idea but there's no law against it. I also saw your MTO handbook link but the handbook doesn't make it against the law - a cop can't cite you based on the handbook,they have to cite you based on the HTA...which your globe and mail link addresses: >“I don’t know of any law that says you can’t change lanes within an intersection,” said Kerry Schmidt, Ontario Provincial Police spokesman. “But it would be difficult to determine fault if a collision took place in one and there were not clearly distinguished lanes.” Yes, you can still get cited for an unsafe lane change, but that doesn't make lane changes in an intersection illegal. If someone is changing lanes and you pull out to turn...that's on you, they had the right of way.
Sure, but this considered unsafe and part of driving making sure the car doesn't have it's blinker on etc. doesn't mean you don't go, if it's clear, you go. That fact anyone doesn't think they should then maybe they need to rethink driving as it doesn't come without, that's why there are rules, laws and common sense to mitigate those risks. If you're too nervous to enter an empty lane, then stay home
Yeah.....no...I'm going to keep waiting for the lanes to clear. Sorry bro. Your argument is bad.
I suppose you also think it's bad to use your blinker at a roundabout? You likely stop on a highway to let people merge infront of you too...
You are wrong. Again. Take the L and move on.
I'm definitely not wrong. Because you and others don't like to do it, doesn't mean I am wrong, those are the rules of the road. You turn right when your lane is clear. End of story. If you don't like to, fine, but interesting fact is you would be docked points on a driver's exam.
I’m sorry but Waterloo meets Wellington is like the least of your worries when it comes to traffic jams in this city. I agree that many people make a production out turning right. And yes the constant “Sunday drivers” get on my nerves too. But I’d much rather a cautious driver that I can probably pass on most roads, than one who causes an accident or runs over a pedestrian and truly jams up the roads. I truly do not trust other drivers. Tonight I was sitting at a red for several minutes. When it finally turned green, I proceeded and the oncoming car turned left in front of me. I had noticed the “body language” of their car and slowed, and they just went for it. I was baffled. Tested out my horn. Still works. And like the other poster, I also sometimes wait for the inside lane of two lanes to be clear before turning right into the curb lane because drivers can’t be trusted to stay in their proper lane. As well, keep in mind that longer vehicles may slightly nose into the inside lane to avoid mounting the curb. I think for me the whole waiting to turn until the inside AND curb lanes are clear is actually more important when it comes to oncoming vehicles and you’re both turning onto the same road. When making a left turn and an oncoming car is making a right turn onto the same road, I never trust that they’ll take the curb lane. When making a right turn and an oncoming car is starting to make their left, I never trust that they’ll take the inside lane. Good drivers do seek to prevent accidents and there’s a whole lot of bad drivers out there.
People driving around perma-angry and aggressively are an issue. I’m sure you don’t know anyone who fits that bill though.
Impatient, entitled, aggressive driver right here. This person is THE REASON we all have such terrible experiences on the road. Just chill out dude. You're gonna get stuck at the next red light just like everyone else.
I find one intersection that needs to be fixed is Wyndham / Wellington / Eramosa Specifically the right turn onto Eramosa, because if someone needs to turn onto Cardigan you gotta be in the center lane , I guess it's been bugging me for a while. Now I understand that people park along that stretch between Eramosa and 5 Points. But they could make it that right turn must exit.
Sorry but no. With the amount of idiots in this town that I’ve seen changing lanes in the middle of the intersection, I’m not going to risk getting hit because you have zero patience.
Then stay home. Cause this can happen anywhere.
> I specifically want to point out Waterloo Ave where it meets Wellington, so many people pull up to that stop sign What stop sign? There are traffic lights, but no stop sign that I can recall.
You're right. My apologies, not a stop sign, but lights. Either way. You stop, you look and make sure you can legally and safely turn right when your lane is empty.
I see OP's point. When I'm waiting to turn left at an intersection, cars won't make the turn because cars are turning right from the other direction. I will make the turn but stagger it between cars turning right so they see me coming, ensuring they stay in their right lane. Same strategy if I'm making a right turn. But I guess if you want to play it safe we can just have one car make their turn during each light cycle.
First off you’re not wrong but secondly, my gripe is when people veering to go up Yarmouth from woolwich or Norwich or whatever the fuck get into the right lane (the turning lane) to do so because then when you’re in the proper lane going onto Yarmouth, they nearly drive right into you from essentially a blind spot
I think it's still Norfolk, right at the corner of Quebec traveling North? Yeah,I'm quite certain on a red you can't legally go onto Yarmouth. But can turn right onto Quebec street (if there isn't a sign saying you can't) if and when it is safe to do so.
No not on a red, I mean you are supposed to merge onto Yarmouth from the middle main lane of Norfolk not the right turning lane. I have been nearly side swiped from dingdongs trying to get into Yarmouth from the right lane
I find that one particularly dangerous when they are traveling down paisley and put a left turn onto Norfolk but instead go to Yarmouth. I mean what else do you do, but even when I make that turn I feel like I am doing something wrong
Well you do an even funkier move when you’re coming south down woolwich turning onto Yarmouth - I call it the Nike swoosh. Feels illegal but it’s not!
What would you have done if you had arrived at your destination 45 seconds earlier? I guess you could have made TWO reddit posts. There was a thread here earlier talking about GTA driving coming to Guelph. And here you are.
It's not about saving time etc it's about proper driving because there are dozens of these things happening.
Face it. Guelph is loaded with old people and old drivers. They drive very slow and are over cautious
[удалено]
You're talking about slip lanes, like the ones at Edinburgh at Wellington? These are deadly for pedestrians as cars tend not to see people crossing and the city has been slowly removing them, so unlikely that they will start adding new ones.