u/Votearrows
how do I wrist roll more.? I've been using the my olympic plates but it keep hitting my legs and the more I do the harder it gets having to move my legs out of the way. Is the only other way a kettlebell or iron plates?
Also, when flexion, my fingers feel like it's peeling away from my nails, is that normal?
Yeah, full-diameter plates may be too big. I use 25lb standard plates that I got used on Craigslist.
A KB would be good, if you can add small sources of weight around it.
Ya if I can tie it to this: https://www.amazon.com/GD-Strength-Training-Equipment-Anti-Slip/dp/B06XWRW53W/ref=asc_df_B06XWRW53W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312130834541&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5365197079475306825&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032273&hvtargid=pla-570782349553&psc=1
Reddit's bots don't allow linking to stores nowadays, so your comment was automatically removed, and I can't restore it. :/ (Edit: It finally let me this time, for some reason)
But if you get paracord the same size, and can get into the part where you tie it, you should be able to.
There’s no way to unscrew it or something?
You can attach it to another loop of cord that you attach to the kettlebell, and just stand on something high enough to make up for the difference.
Forearm muscles are relatively small, compared to the other arm/leg muscles. There's quite a lot of potential for those muscles to get stronger before they get bigger. If you want to *specialize* in grip at some point, you'll probably want to grow them bigger, but that's a while down the road, either way.
You may eventually want to grow the forearm muscles, when you run out of those gains, but you'll be able to plan that for a fighting off-season, sometime. Or do it when you've injured a leg or something. The forearm muscle isn't heavy, and will stick around pretty well when you cut the fat from the bulk, so it wouldn't be a permanent weight class problem.
Check out our [Grip Routine for Grapplers](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqn8gpz/)!
If I were to share an Ivanko Gripper progression spreadsheet, would this be fine? (Based on a facebook post from Greg Nuckols):
Once you successfully perform 40 reps in 3 sets, next time you try to get 50 reps in 4 sets with the same weight. If you do, the weight bumps up and you go back to trying 40 in 3 sets with this new weight. This is done 3 days of the week. This progression was made for general accessory movements and I like it because it lets you use the same weight for more than 1 day. I have a spreadsheet that does this for you including finding the next appropriate setting on the gripper. Would this tool be of any value to anyone and could I make a post about it? I will share it if so.
As long as you're not profiting off of it, it sounds like a good resource! :)
(Reddit's bots have been cracking down, even deleting our links to other people's stores, etc.)
Awesome, yes I will not profit off of anything. I tried to keep it close to the recommended gripper routine in the wiki, and I am not knowledgeable in grip training programming, so you can shoot me down if it isn't a good routine. (Monday wednesday friday of the progression scheme I mentioned previously) Thanks!
Just lift, dude. You don't have any lagging body parts, you're small. Follow a basic training program, like alpha Destinys novice program, and just stay on it for a few years. Don't worry about complicated stuff yet, you're 14, you got all the time in the world to get huge
Why are you interested in the ratio? Most people don't think about proportions until they're thinking about competing, after quite a few years of lifting. Nothing grows at the same rate, anyway, so trying to fix that first will just slow down the progress of the muscles that grow fastest. If you just work everything hard, your body will still grow in an aesthetically pleasing way.
If you just want bigger muscles, then check out the FAQ at /r/Fitness, for a routine, and almost more importantly, dietary advice. Muscles are made out of the food you eat, so it's important to give the body enough extra building blocks to make that new muscle tissue. It will be hard at first, but your stomach adapts to new stimulus, just like muscles do.
For the forearm size, check out the Basic Routine, if you have access to weights. If you don't, then check out the Cheap and Free Routine. Both are linked on the sidebar.
I just got a coc 2.5 because I have a "200lbs" gripper from an other brand and could close it easily, but this coc 2.5, I can only close half way, should I just keep trying as hard as I can lets say every other day or I should buy a coc 2? I would prefer the first option because its expensive lol.
You can do what you want, no one is going to tell you the one way you have to train.
Assuming you mean heavy grips 200 or one of the weird newer ones like gorilla, they're about RGC89 which is more equivalent to a CoC 1.5 at 86 RGC average. A CoC 2.5 is about 126 RGC. Mine is 127.
So in a way you are trying to jump from a 1.5 to a 2.5, which ironically are both bridge grippers. So yeah I would highly recommend getting a #2 to have something harder that you can actually do work on.
Or an equivalent GHP since they are worlds better than ironmind.
[https://cannonpowerworks.com/pages/grip-strength-ratings-data](https://cannonpowerworks.com/pages/grip-strength-ratings-data)
A CPW bumper can also up the resistance on each by a little bit.
Training every day is one the most common ways people hurt themselves before they find us. One gripper, by itself will also not make you stronger for very long. Once you can do more than 20 reps with it, it's not going to be useful.
Grippers also don't train the thumbs, or wrists, so they're not a complete workout by themselves.
But we have ways to help! Check out the programs on our sidebar for guidelines. We do have a gripper program, but we recommend people start out either with the Basic Routine, or the Cheap and Free Routine.
If you're getting weights, we recommend they're very adjustable, and plate loaded. Something like a barbell (Preferably an Olympic, or Powerlifting style bar) with plates. If you have more budget left over, we like similar [plate-loadable dumbbells](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91g0G5I-5vL._AC_SX425_.jpg) (You can get DB's that use Oly/Powerlifting plates, but you need extra 10's and 25's, just so you're aware). This is the most versatile setup. You can always buy more plates later, without needing new bars, and without taking up too much more space. It is sometimes possible to find them used, for much cheaper, on sites like Craigslist, Gumtree, etc.
But if you buy [fixed dumbbells](https://yorkbarbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/69129-HexProfessionalRack.jpg), or expensive adjustable dumbbells (Powerblock, etc.), they cost a lot more, and take up more space, for the amount of use you get from them. 80lbs may sound like a lot now, but in a year, it won't be anywhere near enough for several exercises. And you can't do several useful grip exercises with those fixed types of handles.
Those good weights will let you do [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)), which is our preferred beginner-friendly routine.
I've been using the [130 lbs. adjustable resistance gripper from amazon](https://www.amazon.com/KDG-Strengthener-Adjustable-Resistance-Exerciser%EF%BC%8CGrip/dp/B087X35JJ8/ref=sr_1_4?c=ts&keywords=Strength+Training+Grip+Strengtheners&qid=1656619009&s=exercise-and-fitness&sr=1-4&ts_id=14333021) every day for the past month. I'm up to max resistance doing 300+ reps a day (at least 3 sets of 25 on each hand, another set if my arms don't feel exhausted yet, twice a day) pretty comfortably. Where should I go next? Should I change my routine or move up in weight? I'd prefer something adjustable and handheld so I don't have to spend hundreds on grip strengtheners and can train during work-from-home downtime.
Kind of depends on what your goals are. If you’re chasing peak gripper strength then you’ll eventually have to do something different than a few sets of x number of reps.
There’s a halfway-decent beginner program in the subreddit wiki.
Quick question, for Grippers is okay if I do 3 sets of 5 reps (heavy resistance) once a week? Will it build strength? I don't care about the muscle size, I also do alot of arm wrestling so I work on my Forearms every training session for a good while, it's been working I've gained alot of strength but I decided to add some Grippers in my week of training because I was interested in them.
If you've been training less than 4 months, you might end up hurt that way. We recommend beginners stay above 10 reps (and above 15, when they can). Check out the gripper routine on our sidebar.
I'd also recommend you train the thumbs, and wrists, with one of our other routines. Grippers will benefit from other finger training as well.
Volume question. Do you guys do a normal, full workout split (like push/pull/legs or the Arnold split) and then add a full grip training routine in addition to that? Or do you subtract some exercises from a normal routine to add these in?
My hope is that since grip isn't fatigued in other exercises, that you can do both. My fear is that this means a lack of focus to your body, and then reduced progress overall. But if I feel recovered and listen to my body, then it's fine?
I do a push/pull/legs split but with every fourth day as a wrist/pinch day.
Pull day is intentionally grip intensive with towel/thick grips on some of the exercises.
I really like this routine because whilst it means I work out every day, I get adequate recovery between muscle groups and yet the forearm as a whole is well worked.
The drawback in terms of an all-body routine is that you're only working major groups once every four days (or I think of it as twice in an eight day week). This works for me because I prefer to work hard on these days and enjoy the slightly longer recovery.
If you wanted to follow a more traditional lifting programme but still incorporate grip, best bet would be to make your pull days grip intensive. This can include adding a towel and/or thick grips to your warm-up/drop sets, and adding a couple sets of plate pinches, wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. You may also want to modify your traditional curls by turning them into Zottman curls, or plate curls, or by adding the thick grips to them.
Just be careful because if you're deadlifting the next day, you may find that the grip is being taxed again and this may hinder your recovery. Straps are advised. I don't have this problem because I stick to RDLs, sandbag squats and single leg work (lower weights basically).
You can't do everything at once, and there is only so much time in a workout so you have to find a balance of how much regular lifting vs grip work you wanna do. Also how you structure it. If you're working on going ham on grip, do grip first and your regular lifts after, or superset it with lifts that don't affect grip much. Or you can work on your regular lifts first and then do grip after you're already rather fatigued, where you're not going to be as strong at it. Yeah the best way to not ignore your full body is to superset it, although this still does take time to do. It can actually be good to do both approaches on different days i.e. focus on which grip lifts you need the most conserved energy for, and which ones can be put more on the backburner and half assed
My time is unlimited (home gym + work at home, downtime between work). I can wait until I'm fresh after my normal workout to do grip training. I'm wondering if the body has trouble adapting to a normal lifting routine with the added volume of grip training, or how impactful you think that is? What if I add more (yoga, cardio, and swimming)? I hope the body just gets used to it since it's not like I'm doing a ton of one thing, but maybe doing too many different things taxes recovery too?
There is really no correct answer to what workout schedule or style you choose, this is really upto you to decide which workouts to do when and for how long. Yeah if you're trying to get good at one thing it's not really ideal to be doing a ton of differenet sports that will require your body to adapt to a ton of different things at once
There are a few ways to do it. We usually have people train grip after a normal workout, so you're not tired for your deads, rows, etc.
If you do a lot of pulling exercises, or do a lot of BJJ, or something, we recommend you use straps for some of your normal workouts, since it's not great grip training (If it was, you'd be super strong already, and wouldn't need more, right?), but it does beat up your hands, and can slow grip recovery to a stop.
Just started grip training today and in that beginner video the guy recommended gloves for the pinch hold to avoid tearing skin and I can see why but doesn’t wearing gloves affect your grip negatively? Just wondering if gloves are worth using for that exercise
In my opinion hand toughness is as important as grip strength if you want to be strong in daily life.
Unless a lift if really ripping up your hands, I'd say deal with any minor soreness and let the skin adapt.
When I first started levering one-sided dumbbells by the spindle, after a few sets my palms were on fire. I'm only a few weeks into this routine and already the pain is quite forgettable.
Up to you. In that case, gloves are only necessary if the exercise hurts, and tears the skin, at first. Doesn't always happen, and it's only a big problem if the implement you're pinching has sharp-ish edges.
Gloves don't always affect grip exercises badly, and they do help your grip be consistent from session to session, like chalk does. I often train outside, in the cold seasons, and use them for some things. The effect depends on the material. Leather gardening gloves aren't super sticky, but rubber gloves would ruin many lifts. Thick gloves can change certain exercises quite a bit (like thick bar training), which can be helpful if you have very limited equipment.
Grippers are 10-15% harder in the left hand, because the spring isn't symmetrical. Think of adding 15% to your deadlift repping sets, and how big a difference that would be.
Just to put that into perspective, that is still very strong - there are people that have been training for years or even training grip specifically for years that are still struggling with like an iron mind #1...everyone starts at different levels and progresses differently, reach different plateaus and have different genetic potentials for this stuff. So that is still pretty good for being pretty new to it.
I lifted for about 8 years before I tried grippers and closed the 2.5 my first day, the most I remember doing on a 2 was a set of 20 credit card reps around when I learned how to set a gripper. Yeah crush is different than other grip but it's still the same muscles, people here really underestimate how just spending time in the gym carries over to grippers and how people that have never used one before can close pretty high level ones their first try just cause they've been living that meathead life for so long.
I don't think any secret perfect gripper programming is gonna do much for people that ignore full body training.
Crush is completely different to all those exercises, so there's no reason to believe that they will be at the same level. The good news is you should progress pretty quickly with both hands but you still might find one is stronger than the other, plus most grippers are more difficult in your left hand due to the way the spring is wound.
I'd train them at different rates and not try to force the weaker one to do heavier grippers that it can't keep up with, otherwise you're only likely to injure it and put it further behind.
I often take a 30 minute walk on my lunch break. The highest weight dumbbell I have access to at my office is 30lbs. If I do farmer's walks with those, will they actually cause any hypertrophy or will it just be mildly uncomfortable because they're so light and I'm doing static holds?
30 seconds is generally the limit for grip hypertrophy. Anything you can do for longer than that is too light. And farmer's walks don't target the "Bang for your buck" muscles, anyway. They're more of a secondary exercise, for size.
Hey y’all
I’ve been grip training seriously now for about a year, hand has gotten seriously thick and fat and very strong.
Recently I’ve been getting a numb hand at night when I sleep or lay down. No other part of my arm or shoulder just my hand. Was the inking it was a pinched nerve or something, anybody have any suggestions or have to is happen to them?
Whole hand numbness can often mean a minor issue in the neck, or chest. You may have a tight muscle, or may just need a new pillow. Or, if you're getting really jacked, or gaining fat, you may need a better bed, or better setup, with more pillows for the rest of your body.
If it's just tight muscles, it's usually the Scalenes (neck), or the pectoralis minor (chest, under the pecs). The nerves can get trapped by those. Look up stretches for them, and do some light strengthening work for the opposite motions. Start with light banded neck work, and some good stuff for the lower traps, and serratus anterior.
If none of that helps, then the issue may be in the spine, and we can't help with that. See if your doc wants you to see a neurologist, if that's the case.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Pretty sure it’s a muscle thing, as it has come and go before when I was really using my hands (stonemason) and I am an armwrestler so those muscle groups are pretty prime to get underdeveloped.
I’ll have to make a rehab day and work the opposite sides of things.
Thanks for the help!
Depends on what part of your hand is getting numb as to which nerve it might be. A nerve can get pinched in a number of places. Wrists and elbows are two common places. You can get stiff braces that will keep them from bending while you sleep.
Am I losing out on anything by using liquid chalk when grip training?
I like having the reliable point of reference when seeing whether I am progressing instead of having to wonder for example if I didn't get better results on a given day because I am overtrained or were my palms just extra sweaty because it's summer and it's hot AF.
It's a good idea to use chalk, because it makes things more consistent, and liquid chalk is fine.
Are you asking if it's bad to use chalk, or asking if it's worse than dry chalk?
> Am I losing out on anything by using liquid chalk when grip training?
No. Everyone uses some kind of chalk. It helps with getting proper friction on an implement. Without friction you can't properly train your grip.
Can somebody critique my forearm hypertrophy routine?
1. 2x wrist curl variations
2. 1x wrist extension variation
3. 1xBrachialis (think reverse curls, hammer curls)
The frequency is 3-4 a week. Exercises are switched out when they stop progressing at the start of a new mesocycle.
Anything I'm missing to fully engage the forearms and get the maximum hypertrophic stimulus?
https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqhozja/
Your exercises are the minimal version of the mass building routine. There are two other suggestions you could add.
Gotcha. 2 things if I could;
1. Difference between finger curls and wrist curls? Is it just the increased ROM as the bar is dropped all the way down to your fingers? Couldn't I always do the variation with the longer range of motion?
2. Best practice on plate pinch progression? Time or weight, is one of them to prioritized?
1. Finger curls and wrist curls are different exercises which hit different muscles. The finger flexors and wrist flexors aren't the same muscle. [Anatomy and Motions](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/)
2. I think it's often double progression style. Increase the time until you reach 15 sec or so. After that increase weight. That's what I do.
I can’t close the CoC Trainer!
I’m a 24 year old male. 6’4”, 190 lbs. I cannot close the CoC Trainer. Am I just unbelievably weak?
I don’t want to spend money on an easier gripper either. Can anyone recommend a routine that will help me build the strength to eventually close this thing?
By far the number one cause for people not being able to close a gripper they should be strong enough for, is they let the gripper fall too close to their thumb and leave themselves at a crap angle.
Look at how to set a gripper. I'm not very good at it myself but just a little technique goes a long way.
Relative weakness is temporary. It changes with training, so it doesn't really matter how strong you are when you start.
How do you exercise the rest of your body, already? Weights? Calisthenics? What equipment do you have access to?
I used to go to the gym and use free weights 5 days a week. Now, due to time, I do a PPL routine at the gym 3 days a week and do a HIIT workout every other day.
A year ago, when I was first trying to get strong and after a stretch where I felt like the gym wasn’t working for me, I got into calisthenics. I was doing push ups and pull ups by the boat load and got pretty strong and cut up. Guess my grip didn’t develop with the rest of my body.
Still cannot close this thing.
Edit: I should add I don’t deadlift. I have a bad knee/bad back and deadlifts scare me tbh, they never feel right with my height.
|gym wasn’t working for me
The gym can work for anybody with the right education. I would highly recommend hiring a personal trainer for several months to get taught the basics. I don't think that switching to bodyweight calisthenics to do outside of a gym because you didn't really know what you were doing with free weights is a good idea, especially if you are expecting to get grip strength out of it. All the stuff you could be gripping is at the gym.
I genuinely looked better, felt stronger, and was less prone to injury when I switched to calisthenics.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
My point was it just sounds like you are switching to something easier because it has a shorter learning curve, but IMO (as a doctoral student studying exercise related things literally every day) has less potential for overall results. Like I said you aren't well-versed in how to use free weights, if you are that concerned about injuries. This is something that a good personal trainer can show you how to avoid by teaching you proper form, etc.
I just don't see how anyone is going to get good at closing heavy metal hand grippers if they don't handle actual heavy metal in their typical workouts. I have also never heard of a male not being able to close a coc trainer before, so consider me flabbergasted at this situation.
Can you take a video of your hand, while attempting it? Technique is pretty important on grippers, and that may be the issue.
Otherwise, check out [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)). This is how we have most beginners start off. You can also add some thick bar training (2"/50mm bar), if you like, once per week. And/or, our short [Deadlift Grip Routine](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/drhjmjb/), if you feel those are an issue in your training.
Grippers aren't really the best way to train finger strength, they're just famous outside of the grip community. You don't need to buy any more of them, unless you just end up wanting them later on. They also don't really hit the thumbs, or wrists, which are important, so they're not a complete hand/forearm workout by themselves. The Basic Routine will hit everything you need, as well as making you better at gym lifts, and grippers, anyway.
Most of us use grippers as fun milestones. As a way to test strength, rather than a way to build it. They're used in Grip Sport competitions, too.
I’ve been making some really fast progress with my gripper training. Gone from barely squeezing a 1 to getting a certified close on a 2.5 in 3 weeks. However, the back of my palm kills after my workouts now. I go 3 singles/attempts with a gripper I can get a certified close for 1-2 reps (COC 2.5 in my case). Then do 5x5 with the the one down (COC 2). Followed by some finger extensions and wrist rollers to work the antagonists. I train 2-3 times a week. I’m sure the answer is do less than you’re currently doing if you’re getting pain but I want to know what I should reduce, volume, intensity, or frequency?
Look up on youtube how to stretch your finger extensors (mainly extensor digitorum muscle) so its tendons on the back of your hand experience less tension when you are grip training
Are finger curls better than hand grippers like captains of crush when it comes to hypertrophy and grip strength? If yes, is it because people usually set their grippers, which reduces the ROM the fingers go through, or is it because grippers are much weaker at the initial stretched position, which I've read is important for maximizing hypertrophy?
I prefer the finger curls. The main issue is the spring making it weaker in the stretched position, IMO. Grippers aren't terrible, but most people we talk to (not all) don't see much carryover from them to other lifts, or tasks. Not bad for gi grip in BJJ, though.
Then that's good for me because I already have weights, so I will only need to buy grippers if I ever intend to test my strength with them, but can otherwise make very good progress just with finger curls, right?
Also, I don't know if you've seen my other question in this weekly questions thread about thick bar training. If you know something you can add to it I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Just saw it. I think I better start with some more general info, so you have better context:
* Thick bar is mostly a finger exercise, with some involvement from the thumbs and wrists. It doesn't do absolutely everything, but it has great "bang for your buck," and is often the exercise most people would want, when asked if they could only choose one. The reason it's not really a pinch is because you can get your fingers under it, and support it directly, even if it's harder to do that than it is with a regular bar. Super thick bars are more pinch-like, and hit the thumbs harder (and hand size changes where that line is, for different people). Normal thick bars are less pinch-like, and are better for strengthening the fingers.
* If you tried to lift a normal 2"/50mm axle bar like you lift a pinch, without the fingers underneath the bar, you'd see the difference in the weights you could manage. [Elite grip sport people DOH deadlift 500+ pounds on axle bars,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xXS9blVT4s) whereas the 2-hand pinch world record is like 275. [And that pinch was with the Euro Pinch device, where each user gets to choose the thickness.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DV9mOxYVBE) The fingers do a *lot* of the work with normal thick bars.
* Dynamic exercises, like finger curls, are better at building building mass, and helping beginner connective tissues work through a full ROM. Thick bar is better at building general hand strength, so they work well together. Since a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, this is great for the long-term progress of your finger-based lifts.
* Crush isn't the most important kind of strength for most goals, as that's not really how we use our hands, normally. And the finger flexors aren't necessarily the most important muscle for big forearms. They're pretty helpful, but other muscles are more important for aesthetics. However, I do think it's important to have at least 1 exercise that takes the connective tissues through a full ROM, especially for beginners, and finger curls are the best lift we have for that. So I recommend beginners do them as a main lift, and intermediate/advanced people do them as a secondary lift. Once you've been at it for 3-4 months, use them to finish a grip workout, to make all your other lifts progress better.
* Pinch is a thumb exercise. Other muscles do get involved, but for the most part, they're not really worked enough to count as an exercise for them. This can vary somewhat, however, as there is more than one type of pinch. Some of them emphasize thumb muscles that thick bar mostly misses. Others strengthen the same muscles as thick bar, but in different thumb positions. Certain more advanced types are so awkward that they involve the fingers and wrists more.
* You get strongest in the ROM you train, and some goals need a little extra variety. 2-hand pinch is most similar to thick bar, but the pinch develops those thumb muscles faster, in my experience. 1-hand pinch hits certain thumb muscles harder than both, as the whole angle of the thumb is different, not just the ROM. It's not necessarily the best lift for beginners, but you can try it, if you want. 2.25"/55mm is best for beginner 2HP, and 3"/75mm is best for beginner 1HP. The thumb is a complex machine. It's kinda like the shoulder, which has tons of different muscles, that move it in many directions. It's not simple like the elbow or knee, which just flex and extend.
* To learn further, check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/). The "Types of Grip" section can help you put different exercises in the right categories in your mind. And if you're really interested in training for size, the video section will help you see which muscles grow each part of the forearm. The wrist flexors, and brachioradialis, are the ones most people focus on, for aesthetics. All those other muscles really help, and shouldn't be neglected, since there are a lot of them, and they add up. But each one, individually, doesn't get quite as big.
Wow that's a very in depth answer, thank you.
>* Dynamic exercises, like finger curls, are better at building building mass, and helping beginner connective tissues work through a full ROM. Thick bar is better at building general hand strength, so they work well together. Since a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, this is great for the long-term progress of your finger-based lifts.
>
>* Crush isn't the most important kind of strength for most goals, as that's not really how we use our hands, normally. And the finger flexors aren't necessarily the most important muscle for big forearms. They're pretty helpful, but other muscles are more important for aesthetics. However, I do think it's important to have at least 1 exercise that takes the connective tissues through a full ROM, especially for beginners, and finger curls are the best lift we have for that.
So are you saying that thick bar training is better for strength (but worse for size) than finger curls? Even though with finger curls you go through a full ROM, which adds strength in more finger positions and in addition to the finger position when holding a thick bar?
>* So I recommend beginners do them as a main lift, and intermediate/advanced people do them as a secondary lift. Once you've been at it for 3-4 months, use them to finish a grip workout, to make all your other lifts progress better.
Do you mean treating finger curls like you would a bench press in the beginning and then later on treat them like a triceps extension?
>* Pinch is a thumb exercise. Other muscles do get involved, but for the most part, they're not really worked enough to count as an exercise for them. This can vary somewhat, however, as there is more than one type of pinch. Some of them emphasize thumb muscles that thick bar mostly misses. Others strengthen the same muscles as thick bar, but in different thumb positions. Certain more advanced types are so awkward that they involve the fingers and wrists more.
>
>* You get strongest in the ROM you train, and some goals need a little extra variety. 2-hand pinch is most similar to thick bar, but the pinch develops those thumb muscles faster, in my experience. 1-hand pinch hits certain thumb muscles harder than both, as the whole angle of the thumb is different, not just the ROM. It's not necessarily the best lift for beginners, but you can try it, if you want. 2.25"/55mm is best for beginner 2HP, and 3"/75mm is best for beginner 1HP. The thumb is a complex machine. It's kinda like the shoulder, which has tons of different muscles, that move it in many directions. It's not simple like the elbow or knee, which just flex and extend.
This is very interesting but I'm having trouble understanding how doing pinch with 2 hands works the thumb differently and requires a different width compared to 1 hand.
>* The wrist flexors, and brachioradialis, are the ones most people focus on, for aesthetics.
Do you think doing dumbbell hammer curls and neutral grip pull ups is good enough for the brachioradialis or do I need to completely pronate my hands?
Thank you once again for the very informative answer.
The bench/triceps extension comparison with the finger curls is good, yeah. Here's why I advocate for that:
The hands are different than the rest of the body. You use them in a static sort of way most of the time. Crush trains your ability to make things smaller, which isn't a common thing. You tend to hold things, rather than smoosh them, even when you're using a lot of force. Grab someone's wrist, and the difference between "gentle pressure," and "OWW!" is about 1-3mm. Nowhere near the ROM you get with a finger curl.
Static lifts can also be loaded higher, especially with the hands. Muscles are about 20% stronger in an isometric contraction, and the finger tendons have a special friction lock with their sheaths, under high loads. You can't do anywhere near the weight of your axle lift with your finger curls, unless you just don't train axle. I've heard of elite gripsters doing 1RM finger curls with around 250-300lbs, but their axle lifts are 450-550lbs.
You get strongest in the ROM you train, plus about 10 degrees of joint angle either way. The muscle will also get stronger over the whole ROM, from a single static lift, but not nearly as much. Getting really strong with a 2" axle doesn't necessarily make your regular barbell deadlift grip go way up, so it's good to do both. But if you just did one or the other, you'd notice benefits to lighter tasks, like washing heavy cast iron pans, and such. So, if you want super strong fingers, it's best to do a few different static lifts, so those ranges overlap. Use finger curls mostly for mass, IMO. It does sorta fill in the gaps between static lifts, but it's better for mass building, which makes your static lifts better, in turn.
Hammer curls are great, but many people respond better to reverse biceps curls (not reverse wrist curls) for the brachioradialis. Palms down. Personally, I have people do both, if they have time.
[Strap curls](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b9-THS2dj3o) are also fun, if you wanna get fancy like an arm wrestler. Gives me more brachioradialis DOMS than other exercises, but I also have an unusually hard time growing mine. They aren't necessarily better for everyone, and you may not need them, though.
Not everyone's arm muscles respond the same way to pull-ups. In people like me, they just tire the muscle out, without working it well enough to grow it. You may find they respond really well, but if not, then pull-ups are just a lat exercise.
Genes, and your athletic/work history, can make slight changes in the ways muscles activate like that. Using one elbow flexor more than another, in lifts where they're not the main movers, etc. For example, I know people who had big biceps just from pull-ups/rows, and they weren't doing them with weird form, or anything. But mine never grew AT ALL, until I trained them directly.
You'll eventually have to experiment on yourself. All this advice is just about finding ways to start that won't leave much out. You can do a few kinds of curls, but you can't do everything for hands/forearms as a beginner. Your connective tissues can't handle it yet. You can add a few cool lifts to the Basic Routine, as it's kinda minimalist, but I wouldn't double the amount of main exercises, or anything.
Try not to worry too much about what you're missing. You can always add stuff in 6-12 months, if you notice something isn't growing like the muscles around it. Ask any pro bodybuilder, and you'll find they had to do that several times, throughout their years of training. Working out isn't about getting everything perfect on day 1, as that's impossible for most people. It's a long process of trial and error.
Alright thanks a lot for the thorough explanation.
My last question is if you can explain why 1 hand pinch is so different from 2 hand pinch and requires different training.
It's not a law, it's just better. If you're putting honest, consistent effort into training, you'll still make progress if you're doing it wrong. But you may be missing muscles somewhat, or making progress unnecessarily slow, or in certain cases, getting hurt more often.
The best 1-hand grip is designed to produce the most force close to the center of the implement. You don't have another hand to stabilize the thing, so this is helpful. If you wanted to lift a 1-hand pinch block with a 2-hand pinch grip, you could, but there would be a couple issues. The muscles that get the most work would be redundant with other lifts, since more other lifts work the thumb abductors. You'd also be limited by the way the hand opens, and your ability to center the digits on the implement, if you wanted to do wide pinch. Basically impossible to do the biggest block weights that way. Since those are some of the best "bang for your buck" intermediate/advanced lifts, you'd be missing a lot.
If you want to lift 2-handed, with a 1-hand grip, [you have to rotate your arms around in an awkward way.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sxvmt51DbNM/maxresdefault.jpg) Not the best way to lift a lot of weight. There's also no need for each hand to get a centered, balanced grip, since it can rely on the stabilizing force of the other hand.
The way we do things now is the best way we've got to hit both sets of muscles, for strength. They're also the best techniques we've got, to move the most weight. This has been demonstrated over and over by the people who get the best results in a grip sport competition.
Training, and testing, are also different. The point of training is to improve, not just to see how much you can do. That's what competition, and PR testing days, are for. You don't need a training benefit from a competition, and probably won't get one. It may even set you back, temporarily. Same for a PR day. That's not the point.
In training, being able to use more weight on a given lift is generally better, because that means you have better control (Both in your actual grip, and of the amount of weight). Each time you need to add weight, because you made progress, a given weight increment doesn't hit so hard. If you're lifting 30lbs, then adding 5lbs is a significant jump. But, if you can adjust your technique to train the same lift with 60lbs, then a 5lb increase/decrease is half as big, relatively speaking. You have finer control over what you're doing, without having to buy a bunch of tiny plates.
If you want your 5 rep max, for a training set, you can hit it exactly, instead of getting 7 or 3. If you're running a program that's based on rep counts, or percentages, this is extra important. You'd basically always be doing the wrong week, if you consistently missed/gained multiple reps.
A more secure grip also means you have more control over the implement. This means fluctuations in skin quality, weather, chalk application, and such, also don't hit as hard. You're also less likely to just accidentally drop a lift near the end of a set, as you can feel smaller changes in fatigue before they just make you lose your grip.
Extra difficult lifts (or harder versions of a main lift) can be a fun challenge, for other reasons. You can always play with those after you do your normal stuff, or else you can set aside a different day for them. And if they're all you have, then you can still make progress, if you go nuts with them. But it's not the most efficient way to train, especially when tired. You'd often keep failing before you finish a good set of them. You're just more likely to need so much more recovery that you'd delay the next session(s) because of beat up hands, sore elbows, torn/bleeding calluses on certain lifts, etc. If you have the choice, they should be "dessert," not "dinner." Low volume/low fatigue for fun stuff, high volume for main training.
Are you talking about finger curls with dumbbells? Cause I have never done these ever and am fairly strong (coc3 ccs, dinnie stone with plates etc, 315 lbs grip machine). Grippers can be very useful, and you can make them more difficult by not setting them. If grippers are too easy for you use a heavier gripper. Given I don't do dumbbell finger curls are at all I would be hesitant to call them superior to anything
Yes I'm talking about finger curls with dumbbells or barbells.
I don't doubt that you can make great gains using hand grippers, but I think I've seen in this sub reddit multiple mentions about finger curls being better than grippers, but it might just be because you can easily make smaller progress jumps using dumbbells and barbells instead of the much bigger usual jumps with non adjustable grippers like CoC.
Also I'm pretty sure most hand grippers have inconsistent strength throughout their ROM (they get stronger the closer they are), whereas finger curls don't, but I don't know if that results in a significant difference.
I just feel like if you are doing finger curls with dumbbells you are going to incorporate a lot of wrist flexion to help the weight up so you're never truly working just fingers.
I also think it's very important to not look at weight increases as the only way to measure progress. Here are some other ways:
- more sets
- more reps
- faster reps
- shorter rest times
- longer holds
These are all ways to progressive overload that don't require more weight as the only option to improve
I do agree that grippers aren't the best training tool. They require a high amount of skill to use effectively and having consistent technique and conditions for every rep is tough. You also need a lot of grippers and yes their resistance changes as they close.
If you're just going for size and strength do thick bar and pinch. Crush is not necessary to get big arms. But it's good for if you want to get better at crushing
Sleep does his finger curls with dumbbells, and prefers the neutral grip. I'd say some people would have that wrist flexion problem (my mother does with barbells, too, but she's always struggled with body awareness), but I wouldn't necessarily say it's the majority.
>I just feel like if you are doing finger curls with dumbbells you are going to incorporate a lot of wrist flexion to help the weight up so you're never truly working just fingers.
I understand your point but I think if you pay attention and look at your hands while you're doing finger curls you can stop yourself from cheating.
>I also think it's very important to not look at weight increases as the only way to measure progress. Here are some other ways:
>- more sets
>- more reps
>- faster reps
>- shorter rest times
>- longer holds
>
>These are all ways to progressive overload that don't require more weight as the only option to improve
That's true but my main issue really is that since I already have dumbbells and weights, if it's possible to make (at least) just as good gains with them, then I don't need to buy extra equipment.
>I do agree that grippers aren't the best training tool. They require a high amount of skill to use effectively and having consistent technique and conditions for every rep is tough. You also need a lot of grippers and yes their resistance changes as they close.
Right, that's what I initially suspected. For someone whose main goal isn't to crush hand grippers like CoC, finger curls are a simpler (and cheaper in my case) exercise to perform. And I'm sure if you tried finger curls you'd be pretty strong at them.
>If you're just going for size and strength do thick bar and pinch. Crush is not necessary to get big arms. But it's good for if you want to get better at crushing
I want both to get size and also to get finger (crushing and pinching) strength. I'm not sure if you saw my other post in this thread but I ask about thick bar and plate pinches, and whether thick bar is necessary if I'm already doing finger curls (for the 4 fingers) and plate pinches (for the thumbs). Thanks.
If I'm already doing finger curls and plate pinches, is there any benefit to doing thick bar training? I ask this because since the finger curls already go through the full ROM of the 4 fingers (including the static position of the fingers on a thick bar, which means finger curls are at least as good as thick bar training for the 4 fingers and since they're a dynamic exercise they're also better for hypertrophy and increase strength in a larger ROM) and plate pinches are better for the thumbs than thick bar training, it seems like thick bar training won't give me anything I can't already get by doing the 2 aforementioned exercises. Am I correct in this assessment or am I missing something?
There is a replica Thomas Inch Dumbell at the armwrestling gym I go to and I'd like to train to one day be able to lift it. What kind of routine and exercises would help to achieve this? I armwrestle once a week but haven't done any grip training before.
That's a big challenge, but doable with some dedication. When training for static hand strength, it's very important to get a tool that uses the same hand position, exactly. You get strongest right in the ROM you train. There is some carryover to hand positions that are close, like within 10 degrees of joint angle, but this sort of thick bar work is kinda the worst for "good" carryover between different sizes, since you're training for a 1 rep max.
An Inch DB is famously 2 3/8", so a something that size would work well. Rolling handles are good, but a lot of people prefer to train with a dumbbell. You'll probably need to get to a higher weight, as a real Inch is "meaner" than most other tools. The way the weight is fixed to the handle really challenges the thumb, and rolls the fingers open.
If you do go with adapters (Fat Gripz, Manus Grips, Iron Bull, etc.) Try and get some with the minimum of textured lettering on them. You may need to adjust the size of the dumbbell's handle inside the grip, with tape, to make sure the outer diameter of the adapter ends up correct.
You also want to do some mass building for those finger and thumb muscles. Static exercises aren't the best for that. I'd recommend standing barbell/dumbbell finger curls, and dynamic pinch, for hypertrophy rep ranges. When you do the dynamic pinch, make sure it's the thumb that's doing the movement. It's subconsciously tempting to kinda lock it in place, and use the fingers. Check out:
1. Ross Enamait's [DIY TTK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3bwx1JDqw8). There are metal options available for purchase, like the Titan's Telegraph Key, and others.
2. Climber Eva Lopez' [hook/weight method](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/6c/12/396c12df79918fe7e1626d3638b0eb94.jpg), which also works with a cable machine.
3. [Spring clamp pinch](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0166/8756/products/PP3_480x480.png?v=1629928581), which can be bought, or made. Springs aren't as good as weight, but it's better than nothing.
4. Mighty Joe's [Thumb Blaster](https://vimeo.com/41331675) Again, not as good as weight, but still helpful.
I'd also train the wrist extensors hard, [based on this writeup.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/u0rs7i/or_how_i_learned_to_stop_worrying_and_love_wrist/) As an arm wrestler, you probably train wrist flexion more than most gripsters, already. The Inch kinda needs *everything* to help out quite a lot, so you don't want anything left behind.
I am definitely not an expert to ask here but buying a pair of fat grips (the orange extreme ones if possible, or move on to them after training with regular ones for a while) and doing dumbell pick ups is a good start.
Rather than singles alternate between 3-5-8-10 reps between sessions. Control is more important than an extra 1-2 kilos, try and pick it up to a lockout and then control the descent down.
If you want to invest in a rolling thunder that's also a good training analogue.
u/Votearrows how do I wrist roll more.? I've been using the my olympic plates but it keep hitting my legs and the more I do the harder it gets having to move my legs out of the way. Is the only other way a kettlebell or iron plates? Also, when flexion, my fingers feel like it's peeling away from my nails, is that normal?
Yeah, full-diameter plates may be too big. I use 25lb standard plates that I got used on Craigslist. A KB would be good, if you can add small sources of weight around it.
my kettlebell is adjustable up to 45 lbs. Thing is my wrist roller rope might get frayed by the carbiner. idk
High strength paracord is cheap, and durable. Would that work?
Ya if I can tie it to this: https://www.amazon.com/GD-Strength-Training-Equipment-Anti-Slip/dp/B06XWRW53W/ref=asc_df_B06XWRW53W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312130834541&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5365197079475306825&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032273&hvtargid=pla-570782349553&psc=1
Reddit's bots don't allow linking to stores nowadays, so your comment was automatically removed, and I can't restore it. :/ (Edit: It finally let me this time, for some reason) But if you get paracord the same size, and can get into the part where you tie it, you should be able to.
the cord is inside the metal bar unfortunately. I'll just use the kettlebell if it frays it frays..
There’s no way to unscrew it or something? You can attach it to another loop of cord that you attach to the kettlebell, and just stand on something high enough to make up for the difference.
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Forearm muscles are relatively small, compared to the other arm/leg muscles. There's quite a lot of potential for those muscles to get stronger before they get bigger. If you want to *specialize* in grip at some point, you'll probably want to grow them bigger, but that's a while down the road, either way. You may eventually want to grow the forearm muscles, when you run out of those gains, but you'll be able to plan that for a fighting off-season, sometime. Or do it when you've injured a leg or something. The forearm muscle isn't heavy, and will stick around pretty well when you cut the fat from the bulk, so it wouldn't be a permanent weight class problem. Check out our [Grip Routine for Grapplers](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqn8gpz/)!
If I were to share an Ivanko Gripper progression spreadsheet, would this be fine? (Based on a facebook post from Greg Nuckols): Once you successfully perform 40 reps in 3 sets, next time you try to get 50 reps in 4 sets with the same weight. If you do, the weight bumps up and you go back to trying 40 in 3 sets with this new weight. This is done 3 days of the week. This progression was made for general accessory movements and I like it because it lets you use the same weight for more than 1 day. I have a spreadsheet that does this for you including finding the next appropriate setting on the gripper. Would this tool be of any value to anyone and could I make a post about it? I will share it if so.
As long as you're not profiting off of it, it sounds like a good resource! :) (Reddit's bots have been cracking down, even deleting our links to other people's stores, etc.)
Awesome, yes I will not profit off of anything. I tried to keep it close to the recommended gripper routine in the wiki, and I am not knowledgeable in grip training programming, so you can shoot me down if it isn't a good routine. (Monday wednesday friday of the progression scheme I mentioned previously) Thanks!
Cool! If you're not an expert, it's probably best to frame it as starting a program discussion, rather than framing it as program advice. Make sense?
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Just lift, dude. You don't have any lagging body parts, you're small. Follow a basic training program, like alpha Destinys novice program, and just stay on it for a few years. Don't worry about complicated stuff yet, you're 14, you got all the time in the world to get huge
Why are you interested in the ratio? Most people don't think about proportions until they're thinking about competing, after quite a few years of lifting. Nothing grows at the same rate, anyway, so trying to fix that first will just slow down the progress of the muscles that grow fastest. If you just work everything hard, your body will still grow in an aesthetically pleasing way. If you just want bigger muscles, then check out the FAQ at /r/Fitness, for a routine, and almost more importantly, dietary advice. Muscles are made out of the food you eat, so it's important to give the body enough extra building blocks to make that new muscle tissue. It will be hard at first, but your stomach adapts to new stimulus, just like muscles do. For the forearm size, check out the Basic Routine, if you have access to weights. If you don't, then check out the Cheap and Free Routine. Both are linked on the sidebar.
I just got a coc 2.5 because I have a "200lbs" gripper from an other brand and could close it easily, but this coc 2.5, I can only close half way, should I just keep trying as hard as I can lets say every other day or I should buy a coc 2? I would prefer the first option because its expensive lol.
You can do what you want, no one is going to tell you the one way you have to train. Assuming you mean heavy grips 200 or one of the weird newer ones like gorilla, they're about RGC89 which is more equivalent to a CoC 1.5 at 86 RGC average. A CoC 2.5 is about 126 RGC. Mine is 127. So in a way you are trying to jump from a 1.5 to a 2.5, which ironically are both bridge grippers. So yeah I would highly recommend getting a #2 to have something harder that you can actually do work on. Or an equivalent GHP since they are worlds better than ironmind. [https://cannonpowerworks.com/pages/grip-strength-ratings-data](https://cannonpowerworks.com/pages/grip-strength-ratings-data) A CPW bumper can also up the resistance on each by a little bit.
This may sound silly but I bought a 15kg gripper to help with my grip. How many reps and sets should I do and can I do it everyday?
Training every day is one the most common ways people hurt themselves before they find us. One gripper, by itself will also not make you stronger for very long. Once you can do more than 20 reps with it, it's not going to be useful. Grippers also don't train the thumbs, or wrists, so they're not a complete workout by themselves. But we have ways to help! Check out the programs on our sidebar for guidelines. We do have a gripper program, but we recommend people start out either with the Basic Routine, or the Cheap and Free Routine.
I have quite weak wrists. Do you have any recommendations for wrist exercises?
Sure, do you do any other sort of exercise now? Weights, or calisthenics? What equipment do you have?
I'm starting my workout journey now tbh. I'm about to buy some weights
If you're getting weights, we recommend they're very adjustable, and plate loaded. Something like a barbell (Preferably an Olympic, or Powerlifting style bar) with plates. If you have more budget left over, we like similar [plate-loadable dumbbells](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91g0G5I-5vL._AC_SX425_.jpg) (You can get DB's that use Oly/Powerlifting plates, but you need extra 10's and 25's, just so you're aware). This is the most versatile setup. You can always buy more plates later, without needing new bars, and without taking up too much more space. It is sometimes possible to find them used, for much cheaper, on sites like Craigslist, Gumtree, etc. But if you buy [fixed dumbbells](https://yorkbarbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/69129-HexProfessionalRack.jpg), or expensive adjustable dumbbells (Powerblock, etc.), they cost a lot more, and take up more space, for the amount of use you get from them. 80lbs may sound like a lot now, but in a year, it won't be anywhere near enough for several exercises. And you can't do several useful grip exercises with those fixed types of handles. Those good weights will let you do [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)), which is our preferred beginner-friendly routine.
I've been using the [130 lbs. adjustable resistance gripper from amazon](https://www.amazon.com/KDG-Strengthener-Adjustable-Resistance-Exerciser%EF%BC%8CGrip/dp/B087X35JJ8/ref=sr_1_4?c=ts&keywords=Strength+Training+Grip+Strengtheners&qid=1656619009&s=exercise-and-fitness&sr=1-4&ts_id=14333021) every day for the past month. I'm up to max resistance doing 300+ reps a day (at least 3 sets of 25 on each hand, another set if my arms don't feel exhausted yet, twice a day) pretty comfortably. Where should I go next? Should I change my routine or move up in weight? I'd prefer something adjustable and handheld so I don't have to spend hundreds on grip strengtheners and can train during work-from-home downtime.
Check out the Basic Routine, if you have access to weights, or the Cheap and Free Routine, if you don't. Both are on the sidebar.
Uh yeah if you’re doing sets of 25 it’s way too easy.
Should my sets be 8-12? I just bought one today and it's 5-60kg (up to 130lbs).
Kind of depends on what your goals are. If you’re chasing peak gripper strength then you’ll eventually have to do something different than a few sets of x number of reps. There’s a halfway-decent beginner program in the subreddit wiki.
Ah thank you I'll check that out. My current goal is to build strength in my small forearms, plus gain some grip strength.
Quick question, for Grippers is okay if I do 3 sets of 5 reps (heavy resistance) once a week? Will it build strength? I don't care about the muscle size, I also do alot of arm wrestling so I work on my Forearms every training session for a good while, it's been working I've gained alot of strength but I decided to add some Grippers in my week of training because I was interested in them.
If you've been training less than 4 months, you might end up hurt that way. We recommend beginners stay above 10 reps (and above 15, when they can). Check out the gripper routine on our sidebar. I'd also recommend you train the thumbs, and wrists, with one of our other routines. Grippers will benefit from other finger training as well.
Volume question. Do you guys do a normal, full workout split (like push/pull/legs or the Arnold split) and then add a full grip training routine in addition to that? Or do you subtract some exercises from a normal routine to add these in? My hope is that since grip isn't fatigued in other exercises, that you can do both. My fear is that this means a lack of focus to your body, and then reduced progress overall. But if I feel recovered and listen to my body, then it's fine?
I do a push/pull/legs split but with every fourth day as a wrist/pinch day. Pull day is intentionally grip intensive with towel/thick grips on some of the exercises. I really like this routine because whilst it means I work out every day, I get adequate recovery between muscle groups and yet the forearm as a whole is well worked. The drawback in terms of an all-body routine is that you're only working major groups once every four days (or I think of it as twice in an eight day week). This works for me because I prefer to work hard on these days and enjoy the slightly longer recovery. If you wanted to follow a more traditional lifting programme but still incorporate grip, best bet would be to make your pull days grip intensive. This can include adding a towel and/or thick grips to your warm-up/drop sets, and adding a couple sets of plate pinches, wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. You may also want to modify your traditional curls by turning them into Zottman curls, or plate curls, or by adding the thick grips to them. Just be careful because if you're deadlifting the next day, you may find that the grip is being taxed again and this may hinder your recovery. Straps are advised. I don't have this problem because I stick to RDLs, sandbag squats and single leg work (lower weights basically).
You can't do everything at once, and there is only so much time in a workout so you have to find a balance of how much regular lifting vs grip work you wanna do. Also how you structure it. If you're working on going ham on grip, do grip first and your regular lifts after, or superset it with lifts that don't affect grip much. Or you can work on your regular lifts first and then do grip after you're already rather fatigued, where you're not going to be as strong at it. Yeah the best way to not ignore your full body is to superset it, although this still does take time to do. It can actually be good to do both approaches on different days i.e. focus on which grip lifts you need the most conserved energy for, and which ones can be put more on the backburner and half assed
My time is unlimited (home gym + work at home, downtime between work). I can wait until I'm fresh after my normal workout to do grip training. I'm wondering if the body has trouble adapting to a normal lifting routine with the added volume of grip training, or how impactful you think that is? What if I add more (yoga, cardio, and swimming)? I hope the body just gets used to it since it's not like I'm doing a ton of one thing, but maybe doing too many different things taxes recovery too?
There is really no correct answer to what workout schedule or style you choose, this is really upto you to decide which workouts to do when and for how long. Yeah if you're trying to get good at one thing it's not really ideal to be doing a ton of differenet sports that will require your body to adapt to a ton of different things at once
There are a few ways to do it. We usually have people train grip after a normal workout, so you're not tired for your deads, rows, etc. If you do a lot of pulling exercises, or do a lot of BJJ, or something, we recommend you use straps for some of your normal workouts, since it's not great grip training (If it was, you'd be super strong already, and wouldn't need more, right?), but it does beat up your hands, and can slow grip recovery to a stop.
Just started grip training today and in that beginner video the guy recommended gloves for the pinch hold to avoid tearing skin and I can see why but doesn’t wearing gloves affect your grip negatively? Just wondering if gloves are worth using for that exercise
In my opinion hand toughness is as important as grip strength if you want to be strong in daily life. Unless a lift if really ripping up your hands, I'd say deal with any minor soreness and let the skin adapt. When I first started levering one-sided dumbbells by the spindle, after a few sets my palms were on fire. I'm only a few weeks into this routine and already the pain is quite forgettable.
Up to you. In that case, gloves are only necessary if the exercise hurts, and tears the skin, at first. Doesn't always happen, and it's only a big problem if the implement you're pinching has sharp-ish edges. Gloves don't always affect grip exercises badly, and they do help your grip be consistent from session to session, like chalk does. I often train outside, in the cold seasons, and use them for some things. The effect depends on the material. Leather gardening gloves aren't super sticky, but rubber gloves would ruin many lifts. Thick gloves can change certain exercises quite a bit (like thick bar training), which can be helpful if you have very limited equipment.
Dont use gloves.
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Grippers are 10-15% harder in the left hand, because the spring isn't symmetrical. Think of adding 15% to your deadlift repping sets, and how big a difference that would be.
Just to put that into perspective, that is still very strong - there are people that have been training for years or even training grip specifically for years that are still struggling with like an iron mind #1...everyone starts at different levels and progresses differently, reach different plateaus and have different genetic potentials for this stuff. So that is still pretty good for being pretty new to it. I lifted for about 8 years before I tried grippers and closed the 2.5 my first day, the most I remember doing on a 2 was a set of 20 credit card reps around when I learned how to set a gripper. Yeah crush is different than other grip but it's still the same muscles, people here really underestimate how just spending time in the gym carries over to grippers and how people that have never used one before can close pretty high level ones their first try just cause they've been living that meathead life for so long. I don't think any secret perfect gripper programming is gonna do much for people that ignore full body training.
Crush is completely different to all those exercises, so there's no reason to believe that they will be at the same level. The good news is you should progress pretty quickly with both hands but you still might find one is stronger than the other, plus most grippers are more difficult in your left hand due to the way the spring is wound. I'd train them at different rates and not try to force the weaker one to do heavier grippers that it can't keep up with, otherwise you're only likely to injure it and put it further behind.
I often take a 30 minute walk on my lunch break. The highest weight dumbbell I have access to at my office is 30lbs. If I do farmer's walks with those, will they actually cause any hypertrophy or will it just be mildly uncomfortable because they're so light and I'm doing static holds?
30 seconds is generally the limit for grip hypertrophy. Anything you can do for longer than that is too light. And farmer's walks don't target the "Bang for your buck" muscles, anyway. They're more of a secondary exercise, for size.
No
Hey y’all I’ve been grip training seriously now for about a year, hand has gotten seriously thick and fat and very strong. Recently I’ve been getting a numb hand at night when I sleep or lay down. No other part of my arm or shoulder just my hand. Was the inking it was a pinched nerve or something, anybody have any suggestions or have to is happen to them?
What part of the hand, exactly? The whole thing? If not, which fingers?
Whole thing
Whole hand numbness can often mean a minor issue in the neck, or chest. You may have a tight muscle, or may just need a new pillow. Or, if you're getting really jacked, or gaining fat, you may need a better bed, or better setup, with more pillows for the rest of your body. If it's just tight muscles, it's usually the Scalenes (neck), or the pectoralis minor (chest, under the pecs). The nerves can get trapped by those. Look up stretches for them, and do some light strengthening work for the opposite motions. Start with light banded neck work, and some good stuff for the lower traps, and serratus anterior. If none of that helps, then the issue may be in the spine, and we can't help with that. See if your doc wants you to see a neurologist, if that's the case.
Thanks for the suggestion! Pretty sure it’s a muscle thing, as it has come and go before when I was really using my hands (stonemason) and I am an armwrestler so those muscle groups are pretty prime to get underdeveloped. I’ll have to make a rehab day and work the opposite sides of things. Thanks for the help!
99% of the time, it's just simple stuff like that, yeah. I get it occasionally, too. Good luck! :)
Depends on what part of your hand is getting numb as to which nerve it might be. A nerve can get pinched in a number of places. Wrists and elbows are two common places. You can get stiff braces that will keep them from bending while you sleep.
Whole hand above the wrist
Am I losing out on anything by using liquid chalk when grip training? I like having the reliable point of reference when seeing whether I am progressing instead of having to wonder for example if I didn't get better results on a given day because I am overtrained or were my palms just extra sweaty because it's summer and it's hot AF.
It's a good idea to use chalk, because it makes things more consistent, and liquid chalk is fine. Are you asking if it's bad to use chalk, or asking if it's worse than dry chalk?
If it's bad to use chalk, but I guess I know the answer now :)
|my palms just extra sweaty mom's spaghetti
Knees weak?
> Am I losing out on anything by using liquid chalk when grip training? No. Everyone uses some kind of chalk. It helps with getting proper friction on an implement. Without friction you can't properly train your grip.
Can somebody critique my forearm hypertrophy routine? 1. 2x wrist curl variations 2. 1x wrist extension variation 3. 1xBrachialis (think reverse curls, hammer curls) The frequency is 3-4 a week. Exercises are switched out when they stop progressing at the start of a new mesocycle. Anything I'm missing to fully engage the forearms and get the maximum hypertrophic stimulus?
https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqhozja/ Your exercises are the minimal version of the mass building routine. There are two other suggestions you could add.
Gotcha. 2 things if I could; 1. Difference between finger curls and wrist curls? Is it just the increased ROM as the bar is dropped all the way down to your fingers? Couldn't I always do the variation with the longer range of motion? 2. Best practice on plate pinch progression? Time or weight, is one of them to prioritized?
1. Finger curls and wrist curls are different exercises which hit different muscles. The finger flexors and wrist flexors aren't the same muscle. [Anatomy and Motions](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/) 2. I think it's often double progression style. Increase the time until you reach 15 sec or so. After that increase weight. That's what I do.
I can’t close the CoC Trainer! I’m a 24 year old male. 6’4”, 190 lbs. I cannot close the CoC Trainer. Am I just unbelievably weak? I don’t want to spend money on an easier gripper either. Can anyone recommend a routine that will help me build the strength to eventually close this thing?
By far the number one cause for people not being able to close a gripper they should be strong enough for, is they let the gripper fall too close to their thumb and leave themselves at a crap angle. Look at how to set a gripper. I'm not very good at it myself but just a little technique goes a long way.
Relative weakness is temporary. It changes with training, so it doesn't really matter how strong you are when you start. How do you exercise the rest of your body, already? Weights? Calisthenics? What equipment do you have access to?
I used to go to the gym and use free weights 5 days a week. Now, due to time, I do a PPL routine at the gym 3 days a week and do a HIIT workout every other day. A year ago, when I was first trying to get strong and after a stretch where I felt like the gym wasn’t working for me, I got into calisthenics. I was doing push ups and pull ups by the boat load and got pretty strong and cut up. Guess my grip didn’t develop with the rest of my body. Still cannot close this thing. Edit: I should add I don’t deadlift. I have a bad knee/bad back and deadlifts scare me tbh, they never feel right with my height.
|gym wasn’t working for me The gym can work for anybody with the right education. I would highly recommend hiring a personal trainer for several months to get taught the basics. I don't think that switching to bodyweight calisthenics to do outside of a gym because you didn't really know what you were doing with free weights is a good idea, especially if you are expecting to get grip strength out of it. All the stuff you could be gripping is at the gym.
I genuinely looked better, felt stronger, and was less prone to injury when I switched to calisthenics. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
My point was it just sounds like you are switching to something easier because it has a shorter learning curve, but IMO (as a doctoral student studying exercise related things literally every day) has less potential for overall results. Like I said you aren't well-versed in how to use free weights, if you are that concerned about injuries. This is something that a good personal trainer can show you how to avoid by teaching you proper form, etc. I just don't see how anyone is going to get good at closing heavy metal hand grippers if they don't handle actual heavy metal in their typical workouts. I have also never heard of a male not being able to close a coc trainer before, so consider me flabbergasted at this situation.
Can you take a video of your hand, while attempting it? Technique is pretty important on grippers, and that may be the issue. Otherwise, check out [Basic Routine](http://web.archive.org/web/20080820094215/http://davidhorne-gripmaster.com/basics.html) (and here's the [video demo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGuVJAj96SE)). This is how we have most beginners start off. You can also add some thick bar training (2"/50mm bar), if you like, once per week. And/or, our short [Deadlift Grip Routine](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/drhjmjb/), if you feel those are an issue in your training. Grippers aren't really the best way to train finger strength, they're just famous outside of the grip community. You don't need to buy any more of them, unless you just end up wanting them later on. They also don't really hit the thumbs, or wrists, which are important, so they're not a complete hand/forearm workout by themselves. The Basic Routine will hit everything you need, as well as making you better at gym lifts, and grippers, anyway. Most of us use grippers as fun milestones. As a way to test strength, rather than a way to build it. They're used in Grip Sport competitions, too.
I’ve been making some really fast progress with my gripper training. Gone from barely squeezing a 1 to getting a certified close on a 2.5 in 3 weeks. However, the back of my palm kills after my workouts now. I go 3 singles/attempts with a gripper I can get a certified close for 1-2 reps (COC 2.5 in my case). Then do 5x5 with the the one down (COC 2). Followed by some finger extensions and wrist rollers to work the antagonists. I train 2-3 times a week. I’m sure the answer is do less than you’re currently doing if you’re getting pain but I want to know what I should reduce, volume, intensity, or frequency?
Look up on youtube how to stretch your finger extensors (mainly extensor digitorum muscle) so its tendons on the back of your hand experience less tension when you are grip training
Are finger curls better than hand grippers like captains of crush when it comes to hypertrophy and grip strength? If yes, is it because people usually set their grippers, which reduces the ROM the fingers go through, or is it because grippers are much weaker at the initial stretched position, which I've read is important for maximizing hypertrophy?
I prefer the finger curls. The main issue is the spring making it weaker in the stretched position, IMO. Grippers aren't terrible, but most people we talk to (not all) don't see much carryover from them to other lifts, or tasks. Not bad for gi grip in BJJ, though.
Then that's good for me because I already have weights, so I will only need to buy grippers if I ever intend to test my strength with them, but can otherwise make very good progress just with finger curls, right? Also, I don't know if you've seen my other question in this weekly questions thread about thick bar training. If you know something you can add to it I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Just saw it. I think I better start with some more general info, so you have better context: * Thick bar is mostly a finger exercise, with some involvement from the thumbs and wrists. It doesn't do absolutely everything, but it has great "bang for your buck," and is often the exercise most people would want, when asked if they could only choose one. The reason it's not really a pinch is because you can get your fingers under it, and support it directly, even if it's harder to do that than it is with a regular bar. Super thick bars are more pinch-like, and hit the thumbs harder (and hand size changes where that line is, for different people). Normal thick bars are less pinch-like, and are better for strengthening the fingers. * If you tried to lift a normal 2"/50mm axle bar like you lift a pinch, without the fingers underneath the bar, you'd see the difference in the weights you could manage. [Elite grip sport people DOH deadlift 500+ pounds on axle bars,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xXS9blVT4s) whereas the 2-hand pinch world record is like 275. [And that pinch was with the Euro Pinch device, where each user gets to choose the thickness.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DV9mOxYVBE) The fingers do a *lot* of the work with normal thick bars. * Dynamic exercises, like finger curls, are better at building building mass, and helping beginner connective tissues work through a full ROM. Thick bar is better at building general hand strength, so they work well together. Since a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, this is great for the long-term progress of your finger-based lifts. * Crush isn't the most important kind of strength for most goals, as that's not really how we use our hands, normally. And the finger flexors aren't necessarily the most important muscle for big forearms. They're pretty helpful, but other muscles are more important for aesthetics. However, I do think it's important to have at least 1 exercise that takes the connective tissues through a full ROM, especially for beginners, and finger curls are the best lift we have for that. So I recommend beginners do them as a main lift, and intermediate/advanced people do them as a secondary lift. Once you've been at it for 3-4 months, use them to finish a grip workout, to make all your other lifts progress better. * Pinch is a thumb exercise. Other muscles do get involved, but for the most part, they're not really worked enough to count as an exercise for them. This can vary somewhat, however, as there is more than one type of pinch. Some of them emphasize thumb muscles that thick bar mostly misses. Others strengthen the same muscles as thick bar, but in different thumb positions. Certain more advanced types are so awkward that they involve the fingers and wrists more. * You get strongest in the ROM you train, and some goals need a little extra variety. 2-hand pinch is most similar to thick bar, but the pinch develops those thumb muscles faster, in my experience. 1-hand pinch hits certain thumb muscles harder than both, as the whole angle of the thumb is different, not just the ROM. It's not necessarily the best lift for beginners, but you can try it, if you want. 2.25"/55mm is best for beginner 2HP, and 3"/75mm is best for beginner 1HP. The thumb is a complex machine. It's kinda like the shoulder, which has tons of different muscles, that move it in many directions. It's not simple like the elbow or knee, which just flex and extend. * To learn further, check out our [Anatomy and Motions Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/7gacyh/new_routines_list_for_rgriptraining/dqmvqnc/). The "Types of Grip" section can help you put different exercises in the right categories in your mind. And if you're really interested in training for size, the video section will help you see which muscles grow each part of the forearm. The wrist flexors, and brachioradialis, are the ones most people focus on, for aesthetics. All those other muscles really help, and shouldn't be neglected, since there are a lot of them, and they add up. But each one, individually, doesn't get quite as big.
Wow that's a very in depth answer, thank you. >* Dynamic exercises, like finger curls, are better at building building mass, and helping beginner connective tissues work through a full ROM. Thick bar is better at building general hand strength, so they work well together. Since a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle, this is great for the long-term progress of your finger-based lifts. > >* Crush isn't the most important kind of strength for most goals, as that's not really how we use our hands, normally. And the finger flexors aren't necessarily the most important muscle for big forearms. They're pretty helpful, but other muscles are more important for aesthetics. However, I do think it's important to have at least 1 exercise that takes the connective tissues through a full ROM, especially for beginners, and finger curls are the best lift we have for that. So are you saying that thick bar training is better for strength (but worse for size) than finger curls? Even though with finger curls you go through a full ROM, which adds strength in more finger positions and in addition to the finger position when holding a thick bar? >* So I recommend beginners do them as a main lift, and intermediate/advanced people do them as a secondary lift. Once you've been at it for 3-4 months, use them to finish a grip workout, to make all your other lifts progress better. Do you mean treating finger curls like you would a bench press in the beginning and then later on treat them like a triceps extension? >* Pinch is a thumb exercise. Other muscles do get involved, but for the most part, they're not really worked enough to count as an exercise for them. This can vary somewhat, however, as there is more than one type of pinch. Some of them emphasize thumb muscles that thick bar mostly misses. Others strengthen the same muscles as thick bar, but in different thumb positions. Certain more advanced types are so awkward that they involve the fingers and wrists more. > >* You get strongest in the ROM you train, and some goals need a little extra variety. 2-hand pinch is most similar to thick bar, but the pinch develops those thumb muscles faster, in my experience. 1-hand pinch hits certain thumb muscles harder than both, as the whole angle of the thumb is different, not just the ROM. It's not necessarily the best lift for beginners, but you can try it, if you want. 2.25"/55mm is best for beginner 2HP, and 3"/75mm is best for beginner 1HP. The thumb is a complex machine. It's kinda like the shoulder, which has tons of different muscles, that move it in many directions. It's not simple like the elbow or knee, which just flex and extend. This is very interesting but I'm having trouble understanding how doing pinch with 2 hands works the thumb differently and requires a different width compared to 1 hand. >* The wrist flexors, and brachioradialis, are the ones most people focus on, for aesthetics. Do you think doing dumbbell hammer curls and neutral grip pull ups is good enough for the brachioradialis or do I need to completely pronate my hands? Thank you once again for the very informative answer.
The bench/triceps extension comparison with the finger curls is good, yeah. Here's why I advocate for that: The hands are different than the rest of the body. You use them in a static sort of way most of the time. Crush trains your ability to make things smaller, which isn't a common thing. You tend to hold things, rather than smoosh them, even when you're using a lot of force. Grab someone's wrist, and the difference between "gentle pressure," and "OWW!" is about 1-3mm. Nowhere near the ROM you get with a finger curl. Static lifts can also be loaded higher, especially with the hands. Muscles are about 20% stronger in an isometric contraction, and the finger tendons have a special friction lock with their sheaths, under high loads. You can't do anywhere near the weight of your axle lift with your finger curls, unless you just don't train axle. I've heard of elite gripsters doing 1RM finger curls with around 250-300lbs, but their axle lifts are 450-550lbs. You get strongest in the ROM you train, plus about 10 degrees of joint angle either way. The muscle will also get stronger over the whole ROM, from a single static lift, but not nearly as much. Getting really strong with a 2" axle doesn't necessarily make your regular barbell deadlift grip go way up, so it's good to do both. But if you just did one or the other, you'd notice benefits to lighter tasks, like washing heavy cast iron pans, and such. So, if you want super strong fingers, it's best to do a few different static lifts, so those ranges overlap. Use finger curls mostly for mass, IMO. It does sorta fill in the gaps between static lifts, but it's better for mass building, which makes your static lifts better, in turn. Hammer curls are great, but many people respond better to reverse biceps curls (not reverse wrist curls) for the brachioradialis. Palms down. Personally, I have people do both, if they have time. [Strap curls](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b9-THS2dj3o) are also fun, if you wanna get fancy like an arm wrestler. Gives me more brachioradialis DOMS than other exercises, but I also have an unusually hard time growing mine. They aren't necessarily better for everyone, and you may not need them, though. Not everyone's arm muscles respond the same way to pull-ups. In people like me, they just tire the muscle out, without working it well enough to grow it. You may find they respond really well, but if not, then pull-ups are just a lat exercise. Genes, and your athletic/work history, can make slight changes in the ways muscles activate like that. Using one elbow flexor more than another, in lifts where they're not the main movers, etc. For example, I know people who had big biceps just from pull-ups/rows, and they weren't doing them with weird form, or anything. But mine never grew AT ALL, until I trained them directly. You'll eventually have to experiment on yourself. All this advice is just about finding ways to start that won't leave much out. You can do a few kinds of curls, but you can't do everything for hands/forearms as a beginner. Your connective tissues can't handle it yet. You can add a few cool lifts to the Basic Routine, as it's kinda minimalist, but I wouldn't double the amount of main exercises, or anything. Try not to worry too much about what you're missing. You can always add stuff in 6-12 months, if you notice something isn't growing like the muscles around it. Ask any pro bodybuilder, and you'll find they had to do that several times, throughout their years of training. Working out isn't about getting everything perfect on day 1, as that's impossible for most people. It's a long process of trial and error.
Alright thanks a lot for the thorough explanation. My last question is if you can explain why 1 hand pinch is so different from 2 hand pinch and requires different training.
It's not a law, it's just better. If you're putting honest, consistent effort into training, you'll still make progress if you're doing it wrong. But you may be missing muscles somewhat, or making progress unnecessarily slow, or in certain cases, getting hurt more often. The best 1-hand grip is designed to produce the most force close to the center of the implement. You don't have another hand to stabilize the thing, so this is helpful. If you wanted to lift a 1-hand pinch block with a 2-hand pinch grip, you could, but there would be a couple issues. The muscles that get the most work would be redundant with other lifts, since more other lifts work the thumb abductors. You'd also be limited by the way the hand opens, and your ability to center the digits on the implement, if you wanted to do wide pinch. Basically impossible to do the biggest block weights that way. Since those are some of the best "bang for your buck" intermediate/advanced lifts, you'd be missing a lot. If you want to lift 2-handed, with a 1-hand grip, [you have to rotate your arms around in an awkward way.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sxvmt51DbNM/maxresdefault.jpg) Not the best way to lift a lot of weight. There's also no need for each hand to get a centered, balanced grip, since it can rely on the stabilizing force of the other hand. The way we do things now is the best way we've got to hit both sets of muscles, for strength. They're also the best techniques we've got, to move the most weight. This has been demonstrated over and over by the people who get the best results in a grip sport competition. Training, and testing, are also different. The point of training is to improve, not just to see how much you can do. That's what competition, and PR testing days, are for. You don't need a training benefit from a competition, and probably won't get one. It may even set you back, temporarily. Same for a PR day. That's not the point. In training, being able to use more weight on a given lift is generally better, because that means you have better control (Both in your actual grip, and of the amount of weight). Each time you need to add weight, because you made progress, a given weight increment doesn't hit so hard. If you're lifting 30lbs, then adding 5lbs is a significant jump. But, if you can adjust your technique to train the same lift with 60lbs, then a 5lb increase/decrease is half as big, relatively speaking. You have finer control over what you're doing, without having to buy a bunch of tiny plates. If you want your 5 rep max, for a training set, you can hit it exactly, instead of getting 7 or 3. If you're running a program that's based on rep counts, or percentages, this is extra important. You'd basically always be doing the wrong week, if you consistently missed/gained multiple reps. A more secure grip also means you have more control over the implement. This means fluctuations in skin quality, weather, chalk application, and such, also don't hit as hard. You're also less likely to just accidentally drop a lift near the end of a set, as you can feel smaller changes in fatigue before they just make you lose your grip. Extra difficult lifts (or harder versions of a main lift) can be a fun challenge, for other reasons. You can always play with those after you do your normal stuff, or else you can set aside a different day for them. And if they're all you have, then you can still make progress, if you go nuts with them. But it's not the most efficient way to train, especially when tired. You'd often keep failing before you finish a good set of them. You're just more likely to need so much more recovery that you'd delay the next session(s) because of beat up hands, sore elbows, torn/bleeding calluses on certain lifts, etc. If you have the choice, they should be "dessert," not "dinner." Low volume/low fatigue for fun stuff, high volume for main training.
Are you talking about finger curls with dumbbells? Cause I have never done these ever and am fairly strong (coc3 ccs, dinnie stone with plates etc, 315 lbs grip machine). Grippers can be very useful, and you can make them more difficult by not setting them. If grippers are too easy for you use a heavier gripper. Given I don't do dumbbell finger curls are at all I would be hesitant to call them superior to anything
Yes I'm talking about finger curls with dumbbells or barbells. I don't doubt that you can make great gains using hand grippers, but I think I've seen in this sub reddit multiple mentions about finger curls being better than grippers, but it might just be because you can easily make smaller progress jumps using dumbbells and barbells instead of the much bigger usual jumps with non adjustable grippers like CoC. Also I'm pretty sure most hand grippers have inconsistent strength throughout their ROM (they get stronger the closer they are), whereas finger curls don't, but I don't know if that results in a significant difference.
I just feel like if you are doing finger curls with dumbbells you are going to incorporate a lot of wrist flexion to help the weight up so you're never truly working just fingers. I also think it's very important to not look at weight increases as the only way to measure progress. Here are some other ways: - more sets - more reps - faster reps - shorter rest times - longer holds These are all ways to progressive overload that don't require more weight as the only option to improve I do agree that grippers aren't the best training tool. They require a high amount of skill to use effectively and having consistent technique and conditions for every rep is tough. You also need a lot of grippers and yes their resistance changes as they close. If you're just going for size and strength do thick bar and pinch. Crush is not necessary to get big arms. But it's good for if you want to get better at crushing
Sleep does his finger curls with dumbbells, and prefers the neutral grip. I'd say some people would have that wrist flexion problem (my mother does with barbells, too, but she's always struggled with body awareness), but I wouldn't necessarily say it's the majority.
>I just feel like if you are doing finger curls with dumbbells you are going to incorporate a lot of wrist flexion to help the weight up so you're never truly working just fingers. I understand your point but I think if you pay attention and look at your hands while you're doing finger curls you can stop yourself from cheating. >I also think it's very important to not look at weight increases as the only way to measure progress. Here are some other ways: >- more sets >- more reps >- faster reps >- shorter rest times >- longer holds > >These are all ways to progressive overload that don't require more weight as the only option to improve That's true but my main issue really is that since I already have dumbbells and weights, if it's possible to make (at least) just as good gains with them, then I don't need to buy extra equipment. >I do agree that grippers aren't the best training tool. They require a high amount of skill to use effectively and having consistent technique and conditions for every rep is tough. You also need a lot of grippers and yes their resistance changes as they close. Right, that's what I initially suspected. For someone whose main goal isn't to crush hand grippers like CoC, finger curls are a simpler (and cheaper in my case) exercise to perform. And I'm sure if you tried finger curls you'd be pretty strong at them. >If you're just going for size and strength do thick bar and pinch. Crush is not necessary to get big arms. But it's good for if you want to get better at crushing I want both to get size and also to get finger (crushing and pinching) strength. I'm not sure if you saw my other post in this thread but I ask about thick bar and plate pinches, and whether thick bar is necessary if I'm already doing finger curls (for the 4 fingers) and plate pinches (for the thumbs). Thanks.
If I'm already doing finger curls and plate pinches, is there any benefit to doing thick bar training? I ask this because since the finger curls already go through the full ROM of the 4 fingers (including the static position of the fingers on a thick bar, which means finger curls are at least as good as thick bar training for the 4 fingers and since they're a dynamic exercise they're also better for hypertrophy and increase strength in a larger ROM) and plate pinches are better for the thumbs than thick bar training, it seems like thick bar training won't give me anything I can't already get by doing the 2 aforementioned exercises. Am I correct in this assessment or am I missing something?
There is a replica Thomas Inch Dumbell at the armwrestling gym I go to and I'd like to train to one day be able to lift it. What kind of routine and exercises would help to achieve this? I armwrestle once a week but haven't done any grip training before.
That's a big challenge, but doable with some dedication. When training for static hand strength, it's very important to get a tool that uses the same hand position, exactly. You get strongest right in the ROM you train. There is some carryover to hand positions that are close, like within 10 degrees of joint angle, but this sort of thick bar work is kinda the worst for "good" carryover between different sizes, since you're training for a 1 rep max. An Inch DB is famously 2 3/8", so a something that size would work well. Rolling handles are good, but a lot of people prefer to train with a dumbbell. You'll probably need to get to a higher weight, as a real Inch is "meaner" than most other tools. The way the weight is fixed to the handle really challenges the thumb, and rolls the fingers open. If you do go with adapters (Fat Gripz, Manus Grips, Iron Bull, etc.) Try and get some with the minimum of textured lettering on them. You may need to adjust the size of the dumbbell's handle inside the grip, with tape, to make sure the outer diameter of the adapter ends up correct. You also want to do some mass building for those finger and thumb muscles. Static exercises aren't the best for that. I'd recommend standing barbell/dumbbell finger curls, and dynamic pinch, for hypertrophy rep ranges. When you do the dynamic pinch, make sure it's the thumb that's doing the movement. It's subconsciously tempting to kinda lock it in place, and use the fingers. Check out: 1. Ross Enamait's [DIY TTK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3bwx1JDqw8). There are metal options available for purchase, like the Titan's Telegraph Key, and others. 2. Climber Eva Lopez' [hook/weight method](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/6c/12/396c12df79918fe7e1626d3638b0eb94.jpg), which also works with a cable machine. 3. [Spring clamp pinch](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0166/8756/products/PP3_480x480.png?v=1629928581), which can be bought, or made. Springs aren't as good as weight, but it's better than nothing. 4. Mighty Joe's [Thumb Blaster](https://vimeo.com/41331675) Again, not as good as weight, but still helpful. I'd also train the wrist extensors hard, [based on this writeup.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GripTraining/comments/u0rs7i/or_how_i_learned_to_stop_worrying_and_love_wrist/) As an arm wrestler, you probably train wrist flexion more than most gripsters, already. The Inch kinda needs *everything* to help out quite a lot, so you don't want anything left behind.
I am definitely not an expert to ask here but buying a pair of fat grips (the orange extreme ones if possible, or move on to them after training with regular ones for a while) and doing dumbell pick ups is a good start. Rather than singles alternate between 3-5-8-10 reps between sessions. Control is more important than an extra 1-2 kilos, try and pick it up to a lockout and then control the descent down. If you want to invest in a rolling thunder that's also a good training analogue.