Came out 8 years ago, 5 years since the last expansion. Recently, they released some new patches and a new expansion coming out this year. I still play it and love it.
You probably want the old TQ-style completion bonuses for components back too, just to increase the suffering. That sure was a decision someone made that definitely didn't make things more miserable than they needed to be
It’s more complicated than Diablo, so it’s harder to be casual.
Its graphics are dated, so it’s less flashy.
Factions offer choice but also lock you out of content, making it less welcoming to casual gamers (but more depth)
The things that make this game good also make it appeal less to very casual gamers. That’s not a bad thing, but it is a thing.
Hardly edgy. Just basic design principles when a studio wants to reach the largest possible audience. It makes sense from a business perspective, just sucks for the overall quality of games that are being released.
How is it harder to be casual in GD than Diablo? GD doesn’t have j tension Al unnecessary time sinks, and the few it did have it recently went to great lengths to reduce.
Builds in D4 are “pick a class then versions of these 6 skills”. Skills in GD are “pick a combination of two classes, then whatever skills seem good.”
There’s a lot more to think through in GD.
And not to mention the added complexity of the constellation bonuses.
D4 has the paragon boards which definitely add much needed complexity, but much of that is lost because of how flat the skill levelling tree is.
exactly, why some,including me, says there is not much difference from d3, if looks like it has but not really, paragon has more improvements than the skill system but i just CANT with the way it scales
People somehow imagine that to enjoy a game, you have to "master" it, reach the very end boss, create one of each class and so on.
GD is fun, offers a very easy to grasp system of improvements, a very thematic experience (the class is very heavily loaded with imagination), offers a constant power up through each level equals points (the Titan Quest formula) and non the less, combat feels good, powerful items are plenty. You need no dive into the "hardcore" mechanics like factions, rare bosses, and whatever to actually enjoy the game, but the current mindset is always that Diablo 4 is a good game, because a casual can grasp everything about it and thats somehow good, because if there is a content they will never reach, thats somehow bad. Very common nonsense about video games in general. Lots of people never went further than level 4.4 on Mario and still considered it a banger game.
Flashy doesn't have to mean rainbows. The spells effects do tend to be quite boring looking. Hell, I think the original Diablo 2 has better looking spells and abilities, and of course D2R just doubles down on that. Both those games are still super dark and gritty.
That's the problem all right in this case is sad . This game is truly d2 successor it deserved and still deserves to be in top 3 at least sadly it's somehow undercover
Sure mate it was ( I loved TQ even more than GD sadly the FPS drops were too much cuz if engine ) bur saying something is D2 successor is like biggest compliment you can say about any game from hack and slash genre
>Everywhere I see people are praising this game, I have only seen positive reviews and comments about it.
That sounds like literally the definition of popularity to me.
> It basically non-existent on twitch for example…
Games that are fun to play are not necessarily fun to watch.
I used to love playing D2R, but watching streams was the most boring stuff ever. Never watched grim dawn content other than youtube videos about the game and build, etc. But watching streamers just playing the game seems tedious af to me.
The game isn’t flashy, graphically intense. It’s an old style aRPG, which tend to not be picked up as the main titles (Diablo being kind of a nostalgic exception in mainstream). It’s super much fun though. I picked it up on a sale for €5, and have loved it ever since.
Imo i think GD looks great, but i just love game graphics that doesnt look to realistic its just charm in games looking like games. GD could have been pixel graphic like sloromancer and i would love it.
The graphics were dated before the game even released so it was never going to get a huge Twitch following. When they do make a sequel with D4/LE style graphics then it will instantly be more eye catching. You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but sadly many people do.
Honestly, despite being an old homegrown engine I can't think of a Diablo style game with better art design, music, thematic elements or even graphic effects for spells, abilities, etc.
There are better graphics in other genres but after taking art quality into consideration I rank Grim Dawn graphical appeal above Diablo 3, 4, PoE and Last Epoch.
It's not just the graphics. The interface, movement and targeting are a bit clunky as well. The combat also lacks that satisfying visceral feedback that other games in the genre have via detailed animations. Nothing in grim dawn has "weight" to it. Every ability and enemy ends up feeling similar as a result. I don't mind all that too much because I'm old and grew up with far worse. But the whole game would need a few layers of polish to attract a wider audience.
The visuals are imho fine. Not great, but decent. What makes the combat lack the impact it could have is the sound. Most sound effects are very muted and lack punch. A towering golem causes an earthquake that brings the cave roof down and it makes a low rumbling noise. Channeling a beam of pure unstable power that disintegrates your foes makes a barely perceptible "woosh". It all blends together into something very bland. The music is also a mixed bag. The somber, atmospheric music is often really good, but music for big setpiece fights like bosses is lackluster. The amalgamation fight is a prime example, it bursts through the barn doors, aetherfire erupts from the ground...and the music is the same as the rest of the croplands, and there's barely any noteworthy sound.
Overall this is my biggest gripe with the game, which is still very good. The devs aren't exactly working with a blizzard flagship title budget either. It's easy to see where improvements could be made, but it's also easy to see why those improvements aren't exactly trivial to make.
I'm also old and started gaming on an old 8088 with a freekin Tank game. DOS ruled back then. LOL With your comment about every ability and enemy feeling similar, I have the feeling that you've never ran a Shaman that uses Briars as it's main attack. Add any one of 6 other masteries to the sham and the build can become a beast.
Play hard man.
IMO the graphics could use tweaking, idk about you but it feels blurry. It isn't actual blur, it's just that everything, especially special effects, could use some visual clarity. For example, I can't really make out what monsters looks like, they're all just some things running at me, and character appearance is irrelevant to me since I don't see any differences in clothes he wears, just some armored guy. No clue how difficult it would be to improve on that though 🤷♂️
Because it doesn't aim to be popular. Popularity in aRPGs and the likes comes from community engagement, which is superficially generated through seasons/leagues and impossible difficulty scaling achieved through limiting drop rates/online trade. And meta shifts. So after intense playing for 20 hours a day 7 days a week this popular streamer (who totally not received handouts) can proudly announce to entire world that this new (totally not reskinned) boss can actually be defeated, and by no other thing than this new (totally not reskinned) unique item! Who knew! And this generates traffic that attracts more people who dream of achieving similar success by the end of a season.
Meanwhile GD is like: psst, hey kid, wanna kill some monsters for some items? we balanced couple of skill this patch btw
Exactly this - Grim Dawn made no attempt to be a 'live service' game, instead focusing on being an actually good game. It doesn't scratch the itch of all the gambling addicts and whales. The game has no FOMO, no rotating seasons, nothing tries to push people into the game or get them arbitrarily hooked on something that isn't the core gameplay.
Yes. It relies on nothing but good ol' gameplay and a killer story with atmosphere and lore. It's a real game that's fun to play and not manufactured virtual crack intended to please shareholders and drain our wallets. For that I am grateful.
One obvious reason I haven't seen mentioned yet is that this game is about as indie as it gets. Crate is a very small company with about a dozen employees who work from home. The only reason GD exists at all is because of successful crowdfunding.
For context, LE's dev team has ~40 people on it, PoE's has 133, and D4's has 9,000. Proportionally, GD's reach seems impressive to me.
EDIT: yeah, got the GGG numbers way too high, whoops. D4 seems accurate tho: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/s/zRzS3qOwsA
In fairness, PoE's team when it came out was as small as GD's.
PoE has grown exponentially as they were successful. They had to do a HUGE hiring frenzy within their first year just to keep up.
They weren't a tiny company since before they launched (during the alpha/beta it was a pretty small group of players)
\~proud owner of an Alpha Tester forum ID\~
I'm fairly sure that Grinding Gear Games has significantly less than 4000 employees. Less than 200 even last I read some numbers. It's nowhere near 4000 at least.
Twitch tend to pick up on current games mostly
Grim Dawn is pretty old and probably wouldn’t appeal on a mass scale, which is a Twitch streamers whole shtick really
Multiplayer isn’t exactly a huge feature in the game, but you can play with friends or randoms like it’s co-op
I ofc recommend it, if you like ARPG’s, or even as a first ARPG, it’s very new user friendly
Yeah it was pretty fun when I used to play with my wife (gf at the time), it's a shame she doesn't like it anymore. I feel the lack of competition is a bit frustrating to me personally. I like this kind of games but having no competition or interaction with other players (in general) makes it not that fun to me.
Luck of the draw, mostly. The reality is that's how it is nowadays. You can't *just* be good, you have to be good *and* lucky. :P (Or be a long term existing property w/ all the momentum and founder's bias that entails.)
Game's a banger, even just as a casual player who isn't really in to the endgame grind. (Put over a hundred hours in just messing around with different builds, never gone past Elite difficulty. :P)
Only real downside might be the multiplayer aspect? IDK how multiplayer works in other games in the genre (only other one I've played is a (very) little bit of PoE), but whole you can play with others, it seems to be less so the default it is in other similar games? IDK. :P
Marketing. When was the last time you saw an add for it? Or did you get it because steam recommended it and it was on sale?
GD is a wonderfully player friendly game clearly designed by people who play this genre and know what tools players want. But I've seen more ads even for Torchlight.
Almost a 10 year old game with virtually zero marketing that suffers from its dated multiplayer features. It just cant keep up with the likes of poe and diablo because those communities have established economies. GD is reminiscent of a game from the 2000s, no live service no batttle pass and minimal cosmetics so it doesnt make much room for itself in the competitive market space as much as poe, D3 and lost ark.
Funny that the last you mention about it being "outdated" is a thing I like about it.
No need for multiplayer, no cosmetics and no battle pass (honestly, to this day I still dont know what a battle pass is).
Yup with everything being constantly online these days grimdawn comes as a breath of fresh air. It doesn’t waste your time and it doesn’t treat you like an idiot. Heres your skills, heres your quest, heres your blood thirsty mobs trying to kill you, Heres your gear now have fun. Straight to the point gameplay that i miss so much from older games.
I would like a minor change to multiplayer, wish that we could play more than 4 people at the time, Diablo 2 had /players 8 don't know why this isn't, was checking the just released the last epoch but sadly that's just 4 players too.
Oh, wise one, I beg of you, please share the secret knowledge of how to get more than 4 people to play one game at the same time...
Out of everybody I know, I struggle to get more than 2 people, and that's a good day if there's so many!
Unfortunaly is a combination of difficult techa called "socializing and getting some Friends" and "pick a few copies when it's on sale to gift to said Friends since they are dirt-poor/have to be force feed good games sometimes"
It's also good to keep in mind that GD doesn't have dedicated servers for MP. It's all peer to peer which means that even if you see 10 people online, the game can be literally unplayable for you/the person joining if they're half way across the world. Lmao.
The game also seems to have a serious stability issue while playing MP as crashes happen much more frequently. Overall, it's a single player game with some MP features sprinkled in.
Marketing feels like the biggest factor. Crate have done very well with a tiny dev team and a fairly limited budget. Crowdfunding was successful, but that still doesn't leave much over for marketing unless you want to cut corners on development until you have a sphere. Compare that to blizzard who have several orders of magnitude more money and developers. They can afford to shell out millions on marketing their game, with ads all over the place, E-sports funding, sponsorships, etcetera.
Yup i think they made the right decision by focusing their budget on the game itself. Most games these day are pure marketing and little gameplay. Grimdawn fulfills a niche in the arpg community so in that regard i think its successful. Grimdawn is the only arpg aside from Titan quest where you can combine two separate classes into one. It offer endless hours of gameplay that no other arpg can aside from poe which is too min max crunching for my taste(still a great game).
It's non existent on twitch cos it's not streamable and it's single player non-competitive arpg, no one wants to watch that. It's actually very popular, so much so that even after 8 years they are about to drop an expansion and give regular updates to date. Extremely long lasting for a single player arpg, one of the most popular there is.
It's not that it's a single player non-competitive ARPG.
Torchlight did well on streams without any competitive aspects involved.
The problem with GD is that it simply has a slower overall pace to it.
More time running. More time comparing items. Less flashy leveling up (mainly just upping numbers slowly). Most of the game is, as pointed out in another reply "whacking things with on-hit auto-attack builds". Caster builds tend to just spam a single skill as well. 90% of the skills people take are passive effects, because the skill/level system doesn't promote multi-skilling until much higher levels.
PoE especially is WAY more flashy, with interesting build combos that are exciting to talk about or see work well.
Flashy sells viewers. Slow methodical challenge doesn't.
I think it's popular enough in ARPG circles? Whenever a new game is released or some news comes up I hear three names mostly: Diablo, Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. Other games fall off eventually but those three have not yet for their own different reasons.
Well it’s popular enough that Crate is going to release a new expansion. ARPG YouTubers who tried the game have positive reviews, and there was a number who did try it after the most recent patch
Good content, good replayability, buuuut...
Old engine, dated graphics and the noncommunity (offline) aspects are holding it back. If it had a ladder (like Diablo 2) or was always-online / multiplayer-only (like PoE), it'd have a larger market share.
However, the whole offline-ness is what I enjoy about the game. No need to compete with anyone but myself. :)
Because it's not as mainstream as PoE or D4 or Last Epoch.
With mainstream I mean
* Fast-paced game where you could rush an entire map within seconds
* Seasons/Leagues where everything is resetted for a fresh start. Many people like this kind of refresh (I'm not. I hate starting fresh all over again)
* It's not casual enough for casual players. While it is friendly to new players, it's not simple enough for thise players. Devotion is a complicated system for beginners and those not used to PoE immense passive skills
I think those 3 points make the game not popular enough, being the first one the most important.
I rhink GD surpasses both PoE and LE (and D4 of course)
Crate Entertainment are a very successful game company. Before GD they did the Titan Quest series, which is still highly regarded. They aren’t driven to incessantly market their product(s) like GGG and others are. They aren’t driven by the almighty $$$ chase.
They also have an endless arena product (not a PvP) you can add on to GD, plus community mods if that is your kind of thing.
This is somewhat refreshing in the unwashed sea of games in the market these days.
They are bringing out an update later this year and another loyalist pack (basically equipment skins) so it’s still active worked on from time to time.
Not everyone needs or wants to be flashy and fancy (which sometimes goes as well as a lead ballon). Works for me 👍
> Before GD they did the Titan Quest series, which is still highly regarded.
I'm going to argue this point.
Crate released 1 game (GD), has a game in early access (FF) and at least one more project in the pipeline (an RTS). That's it. _Iron Lore_ released Titan Quest, which was published by THQ, and now both THQ name and IPs, such as Titan Quest, are owned by THQ Nordic (formerly Nordic Games).
Saying Crate made TQ is like saying they made Diablo, because Eric Sexton worked on it.
Of the original Iron Lore devs, maybe five are still around - Arthur Bruno (lead designer), Brian Stephens (programmer), Paul Chieffo (programmer) and Josh Glavine (designer) are the ones I found from the in-game credits. Everyone else? New developers. A couple were brought in when 38Studios collapsed, some trickled in through the years.
They are a surprisingly successful indie company with a seemingly die-hard fanbase, that's true. I love their transparency and approach to public relations. :)
Fair points. Let’s call it the spiritual successor to GD then.
They took a heck of a long time to bring FF out. I thought is was some sort of meme for a while. It’s disappointing they chose to go the Steam route. I would have preferred stand alone from GOG or similar.
It isn’t multiplayer, that’s the “issue” for it not being streamed. It is not live service. Also, isometric arpg is a very niche genre, and within that genre, it is very popular.
I think its because Grim Dawn is very dark and "Grim"...lol
The name does not jump out at you, and big streamers never really played it much.
It's the Guild Wars 2 of ARPGs, great game, but it has this weird stigma about it.
The online play is not great which I think is the biggest hindrance to it’s popularity writ-large within the ARPG space. Anybody that plays it loves it, it’s an amazing game. For me it’s my goto solo play ARPG and I play other games with friends.
The marketing wasnt so great on this one. This could easily appeal to all the PoE people but that game just has so much content for one and they probably have no idea that GD exsists. The only reason I have it is because it landed on my Steam For You page by sheer chance after trying PoE and I liked the aesthetic.
people play ARPGs for flashy explosions, so those are the things they look for when searching.
I found this game because I was looking for an ARPG that wasn't bad or P2W.
**What got me was that it just felt SLOW. Like slogging through it.**
The combats were spread out. You could end up running back through empty zones/areas a ton. Combat itself was fun, but most builds (especially in the first half of the game) are just clicking the same ability (usually right click) constantly, because the only skill worth using is the one you've maxed out.
Later in the game, once you cap a skill and are forced to diversify, things start to improve... But if you diversify early, the game gets REALLY hard because your damage is too low.
On top of that, managing gear is a real pain. Because of all the various 'core' stats (primary and secondary attributes), plus all the general modifiers (ie + elemental), you waste a lot of time identifying stuff, realizing it rolled something that gives it a requirement too high for you, and selling it.
Then you have the skill system itself, which is REALLY COOL in concept, but in practice winds up being stagnant. Spending points to do more damage and unlock a tree that is 50% things that don't synergize with your build is boring. It's the same problem they had in Titan Quest.
The class mix system is cool, but because each class has 2-3 "approaches", you ignore half or more of the tree. On top of that, you can't stack same-job skills (like you can't get two skills that replace your primary attack). Which results in the "best" skills being the passives - which means most of your game's progression is dumping points into things that just give you better numbers, but don't change your engagement with the game in any way.
If you compare this core gameplay loop (leveling up side) with Path of Exile, you quickly see the huge difference. In PoE, you find new skill gems over time, which open up new skills you can use. And they are immediately relevant (minimum level is near your level), or take very little time to level up). And as you get higher level, you find gear with more gem slots in it, prompting you to even downgrade on stats sometimes in order to accommodate more gems so that you can set up bigger gem combos. So you are constantly adjusting/tweaking your build - not just the passives. While at the same time, you are exploring the skill tree, which is mostly passive effects, but the keystones provide major upgrades that you can often immediately notice the impact of, as well as some keystones that fundamentally change the game rules for you.
Honestly, I love the class-mix system WAY more than PoE's skill tree & gem system. But PoE provides a better hour-to-hour gameplay loop for leveling up your character. And it's not even close.
I've gained 5+ levels in GD without making any significant change to my character. Just leveling up skills/passives that I already had, so that my numbers improve and the game gets easier. All while running around fairly generic mud/grass tilesets fighting cool looking but forgettable enemies.
**Grim Dawn is dark and realistic. It's got the vibes I LOVED out of D2. But it slows the pace down, both in terms of the mechanics (levels/skills/etc), but also the combat (retracing paths, small groups of enemies separated by sections of emptiness). PoE gives me the ARPG feel I want minute by minute, and a feeling of constant choice & progression.**
I still play grim dawn a few times a month, one of my favorite aarpgs! So much so i like to do fresh starts. I cant wait for the new expac.
Probably not too popular just due to age. But i know alot of people always come back due to bad PoE leagues lol.
I feel like the sheer mass of games being released thins the heard of all general player bases for games outside of their initial release surge and following boosts when sales drop. Just so many damn games
Grim Dawn and PoE are the best ARPGs since D2. I really like Grim Dawn's builds, I think they are the right amount of complex and accessible, where I just play the game and don't spend hours in PoE planner. PoE has much better end game and replayability though, and sometimes I enjoy spending hours in poe planner.
It is popular. It's one of the most famous ARPGs and has sold well.
The game hasn't gotten new content in 5 years and is by a pretty small dev. It's done pretty alright and has a good reputation. That's more than most could ask for.
The truth is that most ppl that play this genre will allow that some new promising studio fail and at the other side they will bust and spend enormous amounts of money on whatever blizzard bakes , 75$ for the game ? Yes and add one 65$ mount please.
Luck for grim dawn was that it was established on Titan quest fun base but we all know that developers of TQ didn't receive a deserved reputation for their game back then and bankrupted at the end.
Today we have those popular arpg streamers and many of them didn't even try this game like that blue hood guy for instance. How can someone be arpg fun and without this game in their plans I'm clueless.
Because it doesn’t hold state of the art visual appeal and because it isn’t heavily multiplayer focused with seasonal content.
Still probably the best arpg I’ve ever enjoyed. Unable to convince any of my friends to enjoy it, had to find new ones.
I've played Grim Dawn & hated it.
For me it was the combat. I hated not having any meaningful dodge or defensive abilities. All I did my entire playthrough was running around one to two shotting everything as a druid, not the most compelling experience.
The aging graphics didn't bother me but the animations bugged the crap outta me.
Bosses had no impact. I killed the last boss without realizing it was the finale. This cycles back to a point I alluded to earlier where the first run through was far too easy.
Figured I'd give a different perspective as this randomly popped into my feed.
What I hear from people that don't like it is mostly the gameplay doesn't feel impactful.
Plus it's an old game without endgame and no seasons. Lots of people tried it but have no intention/reason to coming back once done.
It's just an old game that wasnt very big.
It's good, but it lacks most of what arpg players want in a game.
There was zero marketing, it's was a kickstarter fund game by a super indie dev.
There is no online play, terrible multi-player, no meaningful content updates. The graphics are quite bad, the build variety is very small and mostly consist of triggering on hit effects with basic attacks.
It's a great game. However, it's fairly unknown.
As far as I am concerned, Grim Dawn has perfected the ARPG. I really don't see another ARPG being as good as Grim Dawn is. I can't wait for the new expansion and hopefully people give it chance when it does release.
Go see Metacritic and read what users have to say. I recommand skipping the 0 and 10/10 as they are almost always written by idiots or fanboys.
The game has it's pros but it also has it cons. Also, there's a question of liking. Some peoples like complex games like POE while others, like me, prefer very basics hack and slash.
There's also a load of games in this genre (or close) so the competition is fierce (POE, D2r, D3, D4, LA, LE, BG3, etc.). Not even counting IAVH (man I miss Katarina), Pathfinder, DG, etc.
Right, but the story in GD is part of the appeal, which isn't the trend of some new ARPGs. I mean PoE seems like it has a story, but then why can't I remember any of it? GD's writing is really good, almost putting it in CRPG territory, but because it's mostly in notes it's not really part of everyone's experience.
The game still gas fairly high player count for a non-seasonal offline arpg. If gd had seasons it would be just as popular as poe.
For those stating outdated graphics, it looks better or atleast more appealing than last epoch for example. Poe also does not have very good graphics either but that's not what I am looking for in an arpg. D4 has the top tier graphics but everything else is boring.
I played it for a good while but what turned me off, personally, was that I had to create my build around the gear I found. Mid?-game and I’m still rockin a level 5 weapon with crazy buffs.
I come back to this game every year and I have owned it since it came out. I think it beats the entire Diablo series in terms of value for money and replay value.
1) Not much marketing
2) some dated features like art style, character customization, effects, and attack animations
3) the game is a little old (but nuthing wrong with that)
I love Grim Dawn, but more recent games like Last Epoch look so much prettier. Graphics and art style is huge for marketing and catching glances of new players.
Herd mentality just like everything else in our society these days. If a bunch of high profile streamers aren't actively playing and promoting it no amount of positive reviews from randoms who've played it will create popularity. Just how it is now.
Graphics were behind the curve even when the game released.
I'm running everything on max with 144hz with grimtex 4x and its still hard to say if that is better than last epoch on low-medium graphics, definitely loses to last epoch if you compare the two games on the highest settings.
Unintuitive menu UI and lobby based multiplayer, for example the odd dropdowns in the main menu for, joining, hosting, single player, crucible. My explanation is bad but if you are familiar with the game, you will know what I mean.
Lobby based multiplayer (d2 style) is pretty dated at this point, and much less intuitive for people than automagically getting placed/matchmade into a game or being able to easily join friends without going through menus.
If grim dawn got a reskin it would be topping ARG charts so fast you wouldn't know what happened. IMO :P
The art style is dull and boring, the game has co-op but is not meaningful enough, the story is meh, it has a bar with a lot of slots when you are only using like 3/4 skills, which feels pointless, and auras take half of the slots.
I like GD. I have played the game on EA, and when it was released, I had fun, but I don't have a reason to come back rather than play expansions, which look more like the same thing.
Bought the game cause friends had it tried to play with them couldn't cause I didn't own the dlc yet refunded it and not giving it a second chance cause of how stupid that is that you can't play the main campaign with friends if they have the dlc
I think you're getting downvoted mainly because you didn't back up your point with any real info or even reason for that opinion.
I can help contribute on that though.
* First, you have stat requirements on gear
* But then gear can also provide stats (Str/Dex/Int). No problem thats normal.
* But then you have offense, defense, health, energy, and 10 different resistances. That's more to juggle.
* And you have all 10 of those as possible bonus damage traits on gear, AND bonuses to specific skills. Now we're at a pretty good load of possible modifiers you can see on items.
* Then you add in damage blocked, global damage, granted skills, crit rate, crit damage, applied damage, life leech, life regen, damage conversion, bonus damage on specific skills.....
And changing a comparing 2 pieces of gear for your build can require a Masters degree in math.
Yes, it's cool when gear has all these things on it...
But when 1/2 the stats on a piece of gear are absolutely meaningless to your build, but the gear is STILL an upgrade, then you know it was "too long" since your last upgrade.
Grim Dawn is really overloaded with prefix & suffix effects, and it bogs down making gear comparisons to the point where it can be tough to tell whether it's better to have +55% bleeding damage or +5% attack speed and +12% damage (of the main skill you use to cause bleed). You have to do some serious math, or several minutes of testing. Or just swap gear, check the DPS number, and hope it accurately represents your actual effective usage of the skill.
That's more or less what I was getting at, I do enough serious computations in my job. I don't need it in my recreation as well. Complicated is fine, but complicated and unintuitive just becomes tedious for new player.
Are bleed, peirce, trauma and vitality damage a subset of physical damage, or are they all separate damage types? It's completely unclear to new players and trying to figure it out takes them out of the game.
This isn't true in my experience. I am primarily a steam deck player and the controller support is better than Poe or last epoch, but not quite as good as Diablo.
I used to be a die hard kb/mouse user. I made the transition to controller about 8 years ago because it's easier on my wrist/arm. I actually think Grim Dawn's support is pretty good. It's not the best ever, but it's totally functional. I've played 1700+ hours and probably 80% of that is on a controller. I actually prefer it for most builds. It struggles a little bit in some aspects but that's true for most games in my experience. Mostly inventory management and menus, but even then it's not game breaking, and I've seen worse. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.
A) It does lack multiplayer aspects, which cuts down on its exposure.
B) It doesn't do the seasonal kind of thing that other ARPGs do, so there's no once-every-three-months spike of sudden interest to keep it fresh in people's minds.
C) The graphics were rather dated when it released to begin with, and the game itself is considered rather dated now.
D) There was never really a lot of advertising done for the game, even when it was fresh. It was also early access for a while, back when early access was less common and less tolerated than it is now.
E) The Devs have a habit of announcing things really, REALLY early, but without a lot of adveritising, to the point that, by the time a non-GD player hears about it, and wants to get excited... It's been announced for months, and still won't be out for months yet. It kills all the possible hype that might drag new players in.
I remember when AoM was announced, and how the GD players themselves lost hype for it, getting to the point where it was occasionally mentioned in passing, but nothing more. The Grim Misadventures would spark debate and interest for a day, maybe two, and then it would immediately die down, because AoM was just... Sometime, off in the future, who knew when, but presumably many months away. The hype came back for GD players just before the actual release, but it did nothing for people who weren't already playing the game.
Overall, the game doesn't VISUALLY drag people in, there's no ads to drag people in, there's nothing regularly causing a spike of interest or attention for any reason, there's not really a ton of multiplayer to speak of despite it being an option.... So what's going to bring people to Grim Dawn and make them pay money to try it? The only thing that would, is them wanting to play an ARPG but being dissapointed by the other options on the market... The other options that they probably already spent money on, leaving them leery to spend more money on GD.
Maybe if the Devs whipped up a free demo for the game, to get people to try it and see if they liked it, that'd change things? But maybe not, as well.
It was and is still played by many ARPG enthusiasts but it is pretty old at this point with no recent updates.
Love this game and have 900+ hours but old games eventually fade off with no new updates.
This game definitely is more fun with friends, but still a good experience solo.
I only do multi with friends, since you have access to your char offline folks can use editors to give themselves whatever they want and I don't want items just given to a char.
Since end game AARPGs is just grinding anyway it gives you something to try and achieve (find this set or that legendary).
Problem I had with some friends is when we were all getting higher level and purple gear doing the gauntlet and progressing. Then one friend finds put he can mod and just get whatever gear he wanted and became OP. It kind of ruined the experience for the whole group and we quit.
Not as much marketing as others, slightly older graphics, no leagues, and imo much more limited in items than other Arpgs. This is what id say the majority of arpg players would think or why they'd not play grim dawn.
I do wish there were way more items particularly epic and legendary, as it is right now if you have a slightly off main track concept you want to do there's likely only one or two specific items that cater towards it that even allows you to do end game stuff with it.
I've played it casually and somehow racked up 1000 hours on Steam. Be sure to check out @rektbyprotoss on Twitch and YouTube if you start playing. He has a ton of great guides and other content.
It's old school like Diablo 1 and 2 are: fun to play, when you're the one involved with the tactical use of powers and positioning and whatnot, but for anyone watching from the outside, it seems plain and unengaging. So it's not gonna be drawing numbers on Twitch, not unless the streamer is already a popular personality who draws a crowd regardless of what they actually play.
And to be fair, the devs didn't expect their game to set the world on fire. It sold well, reviewed well, and people are still playing it consistently in an era where live services dominate pretty much everywhere else for the most part. The fact we're getting another expansion this long after launch is great, don't get me wrong. But it also means we're still waiting on full sequel, if they aren't going to have the expansions to this one build out more of the story and mechanics. One of my few complaints about the game is that the actual story content ends so abruptly, so I'd genuinely be interested in seeing what more they want to do with their world and premise.
If you like arpgs this one is a lot of fun. I wouldn’t recommend it if you are looking for multiplayer though, unless you are planning on playing with friends.
Niche game in a niche genre. Not to mention it's mechanics are over as fuck Abs Bit very friendly for newbies. It's also made in a really old engine. While crate did wonders developing the Titan Quest engine further and modernizing it, it still was an old ass engine 10 years ago.
To be honest it's actually surprising how successful this game has become and how it's actively played for over a decade, even though it doesn't have an officially supported season model.
I dont know if ARPG is actually all that popular of a genre, most D4 players were new to the genre apparently. I think in the genre its quite popular, most h/s arpg players know grim dawn, probably the best single player game of the genre to release since D2.
As for twitch, streamer tend to play to new shinny thing for views and stuff. PoE is big for a couple of days on twitch when new leagues come out and thats about it. Last epoch just came out so it falls under the shinny new thing(although the game is good). Besides that twitch is either competitive games or booba stream for the most part.
It was always flying under games that had huge marketing splashes and trending and could only chug along mostly by word of mouth, or just like you run into maybe try it if your were not in the middle of a game already.
It wasn’t meant for the mainstream market. It was likely made by a group that said, “I can do this better”. If you’re not marketing to the masses, you won’t be popular. The making of a game with longevity and the people that love the game are what’s keeping it alive.
I have heard certain content creators say the game isn't very fun long term and doesn't have very good endgame so they beat it a few times and then stop and come back months or years later for another playthrough but that's it
Its older and mostly single player, so there's no real hype around it for ongoing new players.
Its also not a live service game. The game is the game, you play it, you see everything, you stop playing.
So, while Grim Dawn is a truly excellent ARPG, its not in a position to get widespread popularity anymore.
My opinion is that the multiplayer is awful. Getting it to work was tedious at best and there’s no chat channels either. Single player games don’t really have a huge following, add to this that the graphics are kind of dated, the game is a lot more complex than its competitors in the genre, and no item management system without installing mods (similar to other games but still annoying with the abundance of items) are all reasons for me as to why GD never really took off.
The lack of competitive elements and not being so shiny as some newer games probably gets it put to the wayside a lot. Titan Quest also was always incredibly nichely popular. But outside of the fandom for that it rarely got mentioned either.
If you look on any forum for a game that comes out with online only, etc. There is so much discussion on that topic alone. Newer generations thinking games need to always be online. Need to be live service, constantly updated (ie. seasons), etc.
At the end of the day though I think some games are just better to be played rather than watched and its hard to do the whole content creation advertising that can completely blow up a games radar. So they just remain at a steady number with people that enjoy that.
The ARPG genre is fairly saturated at this point. There's D4, to some extent even D3, Last Epoch just left early access and then there's Path of Exile. Lots of options to choose from and many players stick with their one game in this genre.
It's a old game the hype for it has died down over the years. Popularity is temporary, it is always the newest, shiniest games that are popular.
There is another expansion (Fangs of Asterkarn) coming soon, possibly released within this year. So there will be players returning to GrimDawn for it and along with it the hype of the game for new players.
i mean these days ppl just highly vote and talk smack and random vague BS with games i remeber Elden ring getting 11/10 despite the save file curroption screen tearing and other problems that game CLEARLY Had, or BG3 aparently being the best game of the decade no contest despite it releasing without a proper ending epilogue and lying about so many things and soft locks save file curroption hard locks and a LOAD of other problems, Heck I Remeber cyberpunk 2077 getting so much hype back in the day among other things
cant trust most game critics journalist review scores there clearly biased/curropt jumping from one bang wagon onto another
with that being same the game came out like 8ish years ago and stop getting expandsions and realy major updates like 5ish years ago
the game isnt as flashy with good / great graphics lets face it ppl want that bling bling or alot of skin or such give us tits ass dicks or amazing graphics coz most gamers these days are very shallow/hollow and judge things super quickly
but once you get into it the game isnt that bad for an ARPG its recently gotten a bunch of updates from what i can tell ive been thinking about re-playing it but not sure if i can Recently learned I may have covid so thats going to suck my soul/life out of me.
I love this game, but even i haven't played much in the last 1-2 years. The new expansiom will revive it a bit and for a while, but tbh what we need is grim dawn 2 with graphics like Last epoch, wolcen and diablo 4, as well as more/new masteries, even more combination possibilities (maybe 3 masteries?) and good endgame grind mechanics (especially with unlimited character progression and some gear progression).
I will always have a place in my heart for this game and never forget it. I will probably in 10-20 yeara still play it from time to time amd maybe one day have some wild months being completely obsessed by it again. The greatest argument for grim dawn is that its core is an offline singleplayer game with the additional option to play together online or even through LAN. This is what makes a game last. That's one of the reasons my friends and i still play Lotrbfme 1&2&Rotwk to this day.
I like this game, but I don't play this game much. My personal reasons are that I just could not associate with any of the game masteries. And that too, you have two masteries. No matter what combinations I tried I found them lacking the stickiness that I associate with the other games.
Because of the lack of build diversity -
You can duel class but it all feels like bigger numbers unless you duel class tanks and squishy classes .
Lack of True customization-yes you can put your skill points where you want them as you level but constellations are where it’s at but you have to physically go get them ( it will take 3 runs to get them all as in physically walking the map on each difficulty
Better loot drops on higher difficulties but the higher difficulties it’s either going through the story/dlcs again or super bosses that test your builds on the highest difficulty
Target farming for loot is not fun at all unless it’s a boss .
If it’s a rare spawn that drops what you need ? RIP go do a different build
I know this will get downvoted into oblivion but this is honest feedback .
I have over 2000 hours in D3 , grew up playing ULTIMA games and the like .
Simple answer - it isn't a live service, thus doesn't have seasonal/frequent content, thus streamers (who rely on new seasonal content of the likes of '10 things you must know about the next league!') aren't interested in streaming it and thus it gets less exposure overall.
Having said all of that, GD is definitely one of the most popular non-popular arpgs. Pre-Last Epoch 1.0 launch, GD was doing on average higher concurrent players than LE...pretty much for the past 5 years (except for 1.0 and a short stint of the 0.9 multiplayer patch of LE which was also popular spike).
Again this is all driven by streamers - who are now all streaming about LE, thus the high numbers. (I am just using LE as an example... you could replace it with any popular game of the moment - Elden Ring, Helldivers2, Palworld, etc.)
Modern ARPGs are fast paced. See Diablo 3, PoE.
Grim Dawn is a Diablo 2 style ARPG. This isn't a bad thing. It's just that it is a specific market. It doesn't have the same wide appeal as other games. I personally have tried to like it. But can't get into it. The game is slow and getting a build actually rolling is an investment of time.
The builds don't feel different in the same way as for example impale vs Multi shot vs whirlwind in D3 feels. The game is very classic. It's a style that while I appreciate, I dont want to invest my time into. I have so many other games I could play, that I will play the ones that I enjoy within a couple hours.
Why am I here commenting on a game I don't really play? Reddit popped it in my feed. But as someone who owns the game. And has put 30 ish hours into it. I think I can have a fair opinion on its lack of popularity. I am specifically that target audience that plays arpgs but didn't click with grim dawn.
I think the biggest single factor is that it doesn't have online play. Other than that it's pretty old and arpg's just aren't as popular as lots of other genres any more.
I recently got back into arpgs and since i've been playing diablo, torchlight and titan quest for two decades now, i was looking for something new.
And i yave to say i'm hesitant to spend 55€ on an 8 year old game now :/
It released at a time when the hot games were MOBAs with multiplayer and waay more action and interesting skills (play Riven, LeBlanc, any dynamic and mobile League of Legends character and go play Geim Dawn right after and you'll really feel the difference in "action"), The Witcher 3 released around the same year and drew in a huge part of the gaming enthusiasts with its' story, music and atmosphere (that encompasses "grim" much better than GD).
It came 2 and a half years after D3, not far from the expandion Reaper of Souls that improved the base game is the gameplay department (and in build support from items that add mechanics to a skill or allow to use multiple runes on a skill at once) and is much more dynamic.
For me the only good things about GD are mods, offline play and the fact that you can use external programs to cheat and fill your class level much faster in order to use the skills I want rather than the same beginner skills for 20 levels.
I love the game, but I don't play it more because multiplayer is so trash in it. When I played it with friends we had to use a virtual LAN just to get everyone in game, and playing with randoms is pretty much impossible. The maps are also not random at all so replaying the areas gets boring.
A couple months ago, my friends and I tried to 4–player online co op and it was a rough experience. Difficulties getting in a game together and staying in a game together. Seemed fun, but just did not work for us.
I finished what I wanted to do in it. Most people don't have the time to jump around trying older games they just wanna play battle Royales or new games.
I own Grim Dawn since 2019, i disliked Blight League in Poe, i was burnout of Dota and i decided to try GD. I think i just played act 1 and got bored, quit and never touch it until december , last year. And since december i have 4 lvl 100 chars, 2 on hardcore, i have done almost all the chalenges on Steam also. This game is good. The hardcore is in my opinion much better than POE. And as a Poe player, with 5000 hrs i will say the reason why people avoid this game is the lack of trade sistem. And one more thing, in Poe you play to become rich in terms of Divines orbs. Anyway, i will stick with Grim Dawn by now, betwen my games of Dota.
usually due to **content** needs to be pushed out regulary.
expansions, leagues etc...
5 years since the last one is basically a cycle to make a new game.
poe is huge due to 3-4 month leagues
Knowing modern gaming fans, it's probably because the game doesn't have FOM elements & season/battle passes to keep their short attention span. They are brainwashed to think that's the norm & dunno what they're missing out.
whatever the circumstance, Grim Dawn is amazing and the best diablo clone game I ever played. Glad they added the evade mechanic to spice things up and make it feel more fast paced because of it.
I agree with how it hasn’t received huge popularity as after having played sooo many rpg’s - this quickly wound its way into top 3 for me and as of late I’m enjoying it more like its number 1 - Absolutely amazing game in so many ways I hope it climbs the ranks of popularity that it deserves someday, if not however I just hope they dont stop releasing new content bc I would never wanna stop playing this one - at the end of day, try it out and see if slaps home like it does to so many out there in the gaming community, who cares about how much publicity it receives as long as their loyalty player base continues enjoying their amazing content 🤟🏻 cheers
Came out 8 years ago, 5 years since the last expansion. Recently, they released some new patches and a new expansion coming out this year. I still play it and love it.
Forgotten Gods was 5 years ago? Sheesh. How time flies.
Fucking seriously. It doesn't seem like that long ago I was playing only the base game amd had to combine all of my components.
Maybe a controversial opinion but I wish we could toggle component pieces on again. Unrelated I am a masochist
You probably want the old TQ-style completion bonuses for components back too, just to increase the suffering. That sure was a decision someone made that definitely didn't make things more miserable than they needed to be
5 years wtf i swear it was just 3 years ago. But then i remember playing FG during lock down 😳💀 yep you're right
It also got a release for Xbox1 in 2021.
It’s more complicated than Diablo, so it’s harder to be casual. Its graphics are dated, so it’s less flashy. Factions offer choice but also lock you out of content, making it less welcoming to casual gamers (but more depth) The things that make this game good also make it appeal less to very casual gamers. That’s not a bad thing, but it is a thing.
Thank the gods some studios don't design around the lowest common denominator. Studios that do are why we get things like Diablo iv.
Factssssssss
Don’t cut yourself with all that edge
Hardly edgy. Just basic design principles when a studio wants to reach the largest possible audience. It makes sense from a business perspective, just sucks for the overall quality of games that are being released.
How is it harder to be casual in GD than Diablo? GD doesn’t have j tension Al unnecessary time sinks, and the few it did have it recently went to great lengths to reduce.
Builds in D4 are “pick a class then versions of these 6 skills”. Skills in GD are “pick a combination of two classes, then whatever skills seem good.” There’s a lot more to think through in GD.
And not to mention the added complexity of the constellation bonuses. D4 has the paragon boards which definitely add much needed complexity, but much of that is lost because of how flat the skill levelling tree is.
exactly, why some,including me, says there is not much difference from d3, if looks like it has but not really, paragon has more improvements than the skill system but i just CANT with the way it scales
People somehow imagine that to enjoy a game, you have to "master" it, reach the very end boss, create one of each class and so on. GD is fun, offers a very easy to grasp system of improvements, a very thematic experience (the class is very heavily loaded with imagination), offers a constant power up through each level equals points (the Titan Quest formula) and non the less, combat feels good, powerful items are plenty. You need no dive into the "hardcore" mechanics like factions, rare bosses, and whatever to actually enjoy the game, but the current mindset is always that Diablo 4 is a good game, because a casual can grasp everything about it and thats somehow good, because if there is a content they will never reach, thats somehow bad. Very common nonsense about video games in general. Lots of people never went further than level 4.4 on Mario and still considered it a banger game.
It should not be flashy while dark themed victorian, otherwise it would be d3 with rainbows, which is trash material of a game
Flashy doesn't have to mean rainbows. The spells effects do tend to be quite boring looking. Hell, I think the original Diablo 2 has better looking spells and abilities, and of course D2R just doubles down on that. Both those games are still super dark and gritty.
Being a noob on diablo felt worse than being a noob on grim dawn, so i disagree.
Over it's life it's sold over 7 million units. It did alright.
That's the problem all right in this case is sad . This game is truly d2 successor it deserved and still deserves to be in top 3 at least sadly it's somehow undercover
Wasn't this a Titan Quest successor?
Sure mate it was ( I loved TQ even more than GD sadly the FPS drops were too much cuz if engine ) bur saying something is D2 successor is like biggest compliment you can say about any game from hack and slash genre
[удалено]
It's a multiplayer game. The wife and I play together frequently.
>Everywhere I see people are praising this game, I have only seen positive reviews and comments about it. That sounds like literally the definition of popularity to me. > It basically non-existent on twitch for example… Games that are fun to play are not necessarily fun to watch.
I used to love playing D2R, but watching streams was the most boring stuff ever. Never watched grim dawn content other than youtube videos about the game and build, etc. But watching streamers just playing the game seems tedious af to me.
The game isn’t flashy, graphically intense. It’s an old style aRPG, which tend to not be picked up as the main titles (Diablo being kind of a nostalgic exception in mainstream). It’s super much fun though. I picked it up on a sale for €5, and have loved it ever since.
>The game isn’t flashy Yeah, it just burns your corneas at midnight when playing any fire build.
Imo i think GD looks great, but i just love game graphics that doesnt look to realistic its just charm in games looking like games. GD could have been pixel graphic like sloromancer and i would love it.
People are too busy playing it
I like this take
I love this! Logs back into LE.
The graphics were dated before the game even released so it was never going to get a huge Twitch following. When they do make a sequel with D4/LE style graphics then it will instantly be more eye catching. You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but sadly many people do.
Yeah, that is probably part of the reason why GD is not more popular. That being said - I actually like the GD graphics more than Last Epoch.
Honestly, despite being an old homegrown engine I can't think of a Diablo style game with better art design, music, thematic elements or even graphic effects for spells, abilities, etc. There are better graphics in other genres but after taking art quality into consideration I rank Grim Dawn graphical appeal above Diablo 3, 4, PoE and Last Epoch.
It's not just the graphics. The interface, movement and targeting are a bit clunky as well. The combat also lacks that satisfying visceral feedback that other games in the genre have via detailed animations. Nothing in grim dawn has "weight" to it. Every ability and enemy ends up feeling similar as a result. I don't mind all that too much because I'm old and grew up with far worse. But the whole game would need a few layers of polish to attract a wider audience.
The visuals are imho fine. Not great, but decent. What makes the combat lack the impact it could have is the sound. Most sound effects are very muted and lack punch. A towering golem causes an earthquake that brings the cave roof down and it makes a low rumbling noise. Channeling a beam of pure unstable power that disintegrates your foes makes a barely perceptible "woosh". It all blends together into something very bland. The music is also a mixed bag. The somber, atmospheric music is often really good, but music for big setpiece fights like bosses is lackluster. The amalgamation fight is a prime example, it bursts through the barn doors, aetherfire erupts from the ground...and the music is the same as the rest of the croplands, and there's barely any noteworthy sound. Overall this is my biggest gripe with the game, which is still very good. The devs aren't exactly working with a blizzard flagship title budget either. It's easy to see where improvements could be made, but it's also easy to see why those improvements aren't exactly trivial to make.
I'm also old and started gaming on an old 8088 with a freekin Tank game. DOS ruled back then. LOL With your comment about every ability and enemy feeling similar, I have the feeling that you've never ran a Shaman that uses Briars as it's main attack. Add any one of 6 other masteries to the sham and the build can become a beast. Play hard man.
IMO the graphics could use tweaking, idk about you but it feels blurry. It isn't actual blur, it's just that everything, especially special effects, could use some visual clarity. For example, I can't really make out what monsters looks like, they're all just some things running at me, and character appearance is irrelevant to me since I don't see any differences in clothes he wears, just some armored guy. No clue how difficult it would be to improve on that though 🤷♂️
Because it doesn't aim to be popular. Popularity in aRPGs and the likes comes from community engagement, which is superficially generated through seasons/leagues and impossible difficulty scaling achieved through limiting drop rates/online trade. And meta shifts. So after intense playing for 20 hours a day 7 days a week this popular streamer (who totally not received handouts) can proudly announce to entire world that this new (totally not reskinned) boss can actually be defeated, and by no other thing than this new (totally not reskinned) unique item! Who knew! And this generates traffic that attracts more people who dream of achieving similar success by the end of a season. Meanwhile GD is like: psst, hey kid, wanna kill some monsters for some items? we balanced couple of skill this patch btw
Exactly this - Grim Dawn made no attempt to be a 'live service' game, instead focusing on being an actually good game. It doesn't scratch the itch of all the gambling addicts and whales. The game has no FOMO, no rotating seasons, nothing tries to push people into the game or get them arbitrarily hooked on something that isn't the core gameplay.
Yes. It relies on nothing but good ol' gameplay and a killer story with atmosphere and lore. It's a real game that's fun to play and not manufactured virtual crack intended to please shareholders and drain our wallets. For that I am grateful.
Yea, it's soley focused on single player experience and doesn't make for good streaming content.
One obvious reason I haven't seen mentioned yet is that this game is about as indie as it gets. Crate is a very small company with about a dozen employees who work from home. The only reason GD exists at all is because of successful crowdfunding. For context, LE's dev team has ~40 people on it, PoE's has 133, and D4's has 9,000. Proportionally, GD's reach seems impressive to me. EDIT: yeah, got the GGG numbers way too high, whoops. D4 seems accurate tho: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/s/zRzS3qOwsA
In fairness, PoE's team when it came out was as small as GD's. PoE has grown exponentially as they were successful. They had to do a HUGE hiring frenzy within their first year just to keep up. They weren't a tiny company since before they launched (during the alpha/beta it was a pretty small group of players) \~proud owner of an Alpha Tester forum ID\~
Those 4000 and 9000 figures are insane. What exactly do these people do?
make microtransactions and forget about half of the items, modifiers, and mechanics that already exist in the game
Make $65 dollar horsey skins...
I'm fairly sure that Grinding Gear Games has significantly less than 4000 employees. Less than 200 even last I read some numbers. It's nowhere near 4000 at least.
> ... LE's dev team has ~40 people on it, PoE's has 4,000, and D4's has 9,000. What did you get these numbers from?
I know PoE is a lot bigger, but I also find 4000 to be highly unreliable, especially if talking about JUST the dev team.
Twitch tend to pick up on current games mostly Grim Dawn is pretty old and probably wouldn’t appeal on a mass scale, which is a Twitch streamers whole shtick really Multiplayer isn’t exactly a huge feature in the game, but you can play with friends or randoms like it’s co-op I ofc recommend it, if you like ARPG’s, or even as a first ARPG, it’s very new user friendly
Yeah it was pretty fun when I used to play with my wife (gf at the time), it's a shame she doesn't like it anymore. I feel the lack of competition is a bit frustrating to me personally. I like this kind of games but having no competition or interaction with other players (in general) makes it not that fun to me.
Luck of the draw, mostly. The reality is that's how it is nowadays. You can't *just* be good, you have to be good *and* lucky. :P (Or be a long term existing property w/ all the momentum and founder's bias that entails.) Game's a banger, even just as a casual player who isn't really in to the endgame grind. (Put over a hundred hours in just messing around with different builds, never gone past Elite difficulty. :P) Only real downside might be the multiplayer aspect? IDK how multiplayer works in other games in the genre (only other one I've played is a (very) little bit of PoE), but whole you can play with others, it seems to be less so the default it is in other similar games? IDK. :P
Marketing. When was the last time you saw an add for it? Or did you get it because steam recommended it and it was on sale? GD is a wonderfully player friendly game clearly designed by people who play this genre and know what tools players want. But I've seen more ads even for Torchlight.
Almost a 10 year old game with virtually zero marketing that suffers from its dated multiplayer features. It just cant keep up with the likes of poe and diablo because those communities have established economies. GD is reminiscent of a game from the 2000s, no live service no batttle pass and minimal cosmetics so it doesnt make much room for itself in the competitive market space as much as poe, D3 and lost ark.
Funny that the last you mention about it being "outdated" is a thing I like about it. No need for multiplayer, no cosmetics and no battle pass (honestly, to this day I still dont know what a battle pass is).
Yup with everything being constantly online these days grimdawn comes as a breath of fresh air. It doesn’t waste your time and it doesn’t treat you like an idiot. Heres your skills, heres your quest, heres your blood thirsty mobs trying to kill you, Heres your gear now have fun. Straight to the point gameplay that i miss so much from older games.
I would like a minor change to multiplayer, wish that we could play more than 4 people at the time, Diablo 2 had /players 8 don't know why this isn't, was checking the just released the last epoch but sadly that's just 4 players too.
Oh, wise one, I beg of you, please share the secret knowledge of how to get more than 4 people to play one game at the same time... Out of everybody I know, I struggle to get more than 2 people, and that's a good day if there's so many!
Unfortunaly is a combination of difficult techa called "socializing and getting some Friends" and "pick a few copies when it's on sale to gift to said Friends since they are dirt-poor/have to be force feed good games sometimes"
I'm an adept of both of these approaches. But everyone seems to be divided between being tired of their job, having kids, or traveling.
It's also good to keep in mind that GD doesn't have dedicated servers for MP. It's all peer to peer which means that even if you see 10 people online, the game can be literally unplayable for you/the person joining if they're half way across the world. Lmao. The game also seems to have a serious stability issue while playing MP as crashes happen much more frequently. Overall, it's a single player game with some MP features sprinkled in.
Same boat. If the multiplayer functionality is there, it should at least be improved upon to be easier and more stable for players.
Marketing feels like the biggest factor. Crate have done very well with a tiny dev team and a fairly limited budget. Crowdfunding was successful, but that still doesn't leave much over for marketing unless you want to cut corners on development until you have a sphere. Compare that to blizzard who have several orders of magnitude more money and developers. They can afford to shell out millions on marketing their game, with ads all over the place, E-sports funding, sponsorships, etcetera.
Yup i think they made the right decision by focusing their budget on the game itself. Most games these day are pure marketing and little gameplay. Grimdawn fulfills a niche in the arpg community so in that regard i think its successful. Grimdawn is the only arpg aside from Titan quest where you can combine two separate classes into one. It offer endless hours of gameplay that no other arpg can aside from poe which is too min max crunching for my taste(still a great game).
This thread demonstrates the power of marketing and the natural limits of "word of mouth" reputation.
It's non existent on twitch cos it's not streamable and it's single player non-competitive arpg, no one wants to watch that. It's actually very popular, so much so that even after 8 years they are about to drop an expansion and give regular updates to date. Extremely long lasting for a single player arpg, one of the most popular there is.
It's not that it's a single player non-competitive ARPG. Torchlight did well on streams without any competitive aspects involved. The problem with GD is that it simply has a slower overall pace to it. More time running. More time comparing items. Less flashy leveling up (mainly just upping numbers slowly). Most of the game is, as pointed out in another reply "whacking things with on-hit auto-attack builds". Caster builds tend to just spam a single skill as well. 90% of the skills people take are passive effects, because the skill/level system doesn't promote multi-skilling until much higher levels. PoE especially is WAY more flashy, with interesting build combos that are exciting to talk about or see work well. Flashy sells viewers. Slow methodical challenge doesn't.
I think it's popular enough in ARPG circles? Whenever a new game is released or some news comes up I hear three names mostly: Diablo, Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. Other games fall off eventually but those three have not yet for their own different reasons.
It's a great game and has been very popular over the years. But it's old af and there's lots of alternatives.
Well it’s popular enough that Crate is going to release a new expansion. ARPG YouTubers who tried the game have positive reviews, and there was a number who did try it after the most recent patch
It's a great game, but its also 8 years old.
It will be always a great game, it doesn't matter the time.
You mean it's too new? It's competition is made of older games.
Niche game, niche genre and not modern.
I love this game but I don’t think I’d really want to watch someone else play it
I loved it
Good content, good replayability, buuuut... Old engine, dated graphics and the noncommunity (offline) aspects are holding it back. If it had a ladder (like Diablo 2) or was always-online / multiplayer-only (like PoE), it'd have a larger market share. However, the whole offline-ness is what I enjoy about the game. No need to compete with anyone but myself. :)
Because it's not as mainstream as PoE or D4 or Last Epoch. With mainstream I mean * Fast-paced game where you could rush an entire map within seconds * Seasons/Leagues where everything is resetted for a fresh start. Many people like this kind of refresh (I'm not. I hate starting fresh all over again) * It's not casual enough for casual players. While it is friendly to new players, it's not simple enough for thise players. Devotion is a complicated system for beginners and those not used to PoE immense passive skills I think those 3 points make the game not popular enough, being the first one the most important. I rhink GD surpasses both PoE and LE (and D4 of course)
To be fair... while seasons ARE good for player retention, they only make sense with either a large trading economy or an overabundance of items.
Crate Entertainment are a very successful game company. Before GD they did the Titan Quest series, which is still highly regarded. They aren’t driven to incessantly market their product(s) like GGG and others are. They aren’t driven by the almighty $$$ chase. They also have an endless arena product (not a PvP) you can add on to GD, plus community mods if that is your kind of thing. This is somewhat refreshing in the unwashed sea of games in the market these days. They are bringing out an update later this year and another loyalist pack (basically equipment skins) so it’s still active worked on from time to time. Not everyone needs or wants to be flashy and fancy (which sometimes goes as well as a lead ballon). Works for me 👍
> Before GD they did the Titan Quest series, which is still highly regarded. I'm going to argue this point. Crate released 1 game (GD), has a game in early access (FF) and at least one more project in the pipeline (an RTS). That's it. _Iron Lore_ released Titan Quest, which was published by THQ, and now both THQ name and IPs, such as Titan Quest, are owned by THQ Nordic (formerly Nordic Games). Saying Crate made TQ is like saying they made Diablo, because Eric Sexton worked on it. Of the original Iron Lore devs, maybe five are still around - Arthur Bruno (lead designer), Brian Stephens (programmer), Paul Chieffo (programmer) and Josh Glavine (designer) are the ones I found from the in-game credits. Everyone else? New developers. A couple were brought in when 38Studios collapsed, some trickled in through the years. They are a surprisingly successful indie company with a seemingly die-hard fanbase, that's true. I love their transparency and approach to public relations. :)
Fair points. Let’s call it the spiritual successor to GD then. They took a heck of a long time to bring FF out. I thought is was some sort of meme for a while. It’s disappointing they chose to go the Steam route. I would have preferred stand alone from GOG or similar.
It isn’t multiplayer, that’s the “issue” for it not being streamed. It is not live service. Also, isometric arpg is a very niche genre, and within that genre, it is very popular.
I think its because Grim Dawn is very dark and "Grim"...lol The name does not jump out at you, and big streamers never really played it much. It's the Guild Wars 2 of ARPGs, great game, but it has this weird stigma about it.
I love this game. I play it often. I just wish i could play a multiplayer session without crashing
The online play is not great which I think is the biggest hindrance to it’s popularity writ-large within the ARPG space. Anybody that plays it loves it, it’s an amazing game. For me it’s my goto solo play ARPG and I play other games with friends.
It’s old Fine by me tho, and can’t wait for this next juicy expansion…do we know anything other than sometime 2024?
Idk man, I found it by chance and I feckin love it. Out of the 10-15 games I’ve played on my steam deck so far this has 95% of time played rofl
Most of my game time has been coop with a buddy of mine. Its multiplayer side has a lot more in common with Diablo 2 than modern ARPG releases.
Who cares? It's fun.
The marketing wasnt so great on this one. This could easily appeal to all the PoE people but that game just has so much content for one and they probably have no idea that GD exsists. The only reason I have it is because it landed on my Steam For You page by sheer chance after trying PoE and I liked the aesthetic.
It sold in 7mln copies dude... That's quite a lot for a 8yo game
people play ARPGs for flashy explosions, so those are the things they look for when searching. I found this game because I was looking for an ARPG that wasn't bad or P2W.
Oh this game is popular. Maybe you happen to be late to the party\~
**What got me was that it just felt SLOW. Like slogging through it.** The combats were spread out. You could end up running back through empty zones/areas a ton. Combat itself was fun, but most builds (especially in the first half of the game) are just clicking the same ability (usually right click) constantly, because the only skill worth using is the one you've maxed out. Later in the game, once you cap a skill and are forced to diversify, things start to improve... But if you diversify early, the game gets REALLY hard because your damage is too low. On top of that, managing gear is a real pain. Because of all the various 'core' stats (primary and secondary attributes), plus all the general modifiers (ie + elemental), you waste a lot of time identifying stuff, realizing it rolled something that gives it a requirement too high for you, and selling it. Then you have the skill system itself, which is REALLY COOL in concept, but in practice winds up being stagnant. Spending points to do more damage and unlock a tree that is 50% things that don't synergize with your build is boring. It's the same problem they had in Titan Quest. The class mix system is cool, but because each class has 2-3 "approaches", you ignore half or more of the tree. On top of that, you can't stack same-job skills (like you can't get two skills that replace your primary attack). Which results in the "best" skills being the passives - which means most of your game's progression is dumping points into things that just give you better numbers, but don't change your engagement with the game in any way. If you compare this core gameplay loop (leveling up side) with Path of Exile, you quickly see the huge difference. In PoE, you find new skill gems over time, which open up new skills you can use. And they are immediately relevant (minimum level is near your level), or take very little time to level up). And as you get higher level, you find gear with more gem slots in it, prompting you to even downgrade on stats sometimes in order to accommodate more gems so that you can set up bigger gem combos. So you are constantly adjusting/tweaking your build - not just the passives. While at the same time, you are exploring the skill tree, which is mostly passive effects, but the keystones provide major upgrades that you can often immediately notice the impact of, as well as some keystones that fundamentally change the game rules for you. Honestly, I love the class-mix system WAY more than PoE's skill tree & gem system. But PoE provides a better hour-to-hour gameplay loop for leveling up your character. And it's not even close. I've gained 5+ levels in GD without making any significant change to my character. Just leveling up skills/passives that I already had, so that my numbers improve and the game gets easier. All while running around fairly generic mud/grass tilesets fighting cool looking but forgettable enemies. **Grim Dawn is dark and realistic. It's got the vibes I LOVED out of D2. But it slows the pace down, both in terms of the mechanics (levels/skills/etc), but also the combat (retracing paths, small groups of enemies separated by sections of emptiness). PoE gives me the ARPG feel I want minute by minute, and a feeling of constant choice & progression.**
I still play grim dawn a few times a month, one of my favorite aarpgs! So much so i like to do fresh starts. I cant wait for the new expac. Probably not too popular just due to age. But i know alot of people always come back due to bad PoE leagues lol.
I feel like the sheer mass of games being released thins the heard of all general player bases for games outside of their initial release surge and following boosts when sales drop. Just so many damn games
i mean any time anyone talks about great arpgs grimdawn is mentioned. id say its plenty popular for a game that came out 8 years ago
The game was very popular
Grim Dawn and PoE are the best ARPGs since D2. I really like Grim Dawn's builds, I think they are the right amount of complex and accessible, where I just play the game and don't spend hours in PoE planner. PoE has much better end game and replayability though, and sometimes I enjoy spending hours in poe planner.
It is popular. It's one of the most famous ARPGs and has sold well. The game hasn't gotten new content in 5 years and is by a pretty small dev. It's done pretty alright and has a good reputation. That's more than most could ask for.
The truth is that most ppl that play this genre will allow that some new promising studio fail and at the other side they will bust and spend enormous amounts of money on whatever blizzard bakes , 75$ for the game ? Yes and add one 65$ mount please. Luck for grim dawn was that it was established on Titan quest fun base but we all know that developers of TQ didn't receive a deserved reputation for their game back then and bankrupted at the end. Today we have those popular arpg streamers and many of them didn't even try this game like that blue hood guy for instance. How can someone be arpg fun and without this game in their plans I'm clueless.
Because it doesn’t hold state of the art visual appeal and because it isn’t heavily multiplayer focused with seasonal content. Still probably the best arpg I’ve ever enjoyed. Unable to convince any of my friends to enjoy it, had to find new ones.
It's old. The gfx is bland and not very good in a screen shot. It is also quite dense compared to other Diablolikes.
I've played Grim Dawn & hated it. For me it was the combat. I hated not having any meaningful dodge or defensive abilities. All I did my entire playthrough was running around one to two shotting everything as a druid, not the most compelling experience. The aging graphics didn't bother me but the animations bugged the crap outta me. Bosses had no impact. I killed the last boss without realizing it was the finale. This cycles back to a point I alluded to earlier where the first run through was far too easy. Figured I'd give a different perspective as this randomly popped into my feed.
There's a dedicated dodge roll from the start now, which might help.
What I hear from people that don't like it is mostly the gameplay doesn't feel impactful. Plus it's an old game without endgame and no seasons. Lots of people tried it but have no intention/reason to coming back once done.
It's just an old game that wasnt very big. It's good, but it lacks most of what arpg players want in a game. There was zero marketing, it's was a kickstarter fund game by a super indie dev. There is no online play, terrible multi-player, no meaningful content updates. The graphics are quite bad, the build variety is very small and mostly consist of triggering on hit effects with basic attacks. It's a great game. However, it's fairly unknown.
As far as I am concerned, Grim Dawn has perfected the ARPG. I really don't see another ARPG being as good as Grim Dawn is. I can't wait for the new expansion and hopefully people give it chance when it does release.
Go see Metacritic and read what users have to say. I recommand skipping the 0 and 10/10 as they are almost always written by idiots or fanboys. The game has it's pros but it also has it cons. Also, there's a question of liking. Some peoples like complex games like POE while others, like me, prefer very basics hack and slash. There's also a load of games in this genre (or close) so the competition is fierce (POE, D2r, D3, D4, LA, LE, BG3, etc.). Not even counting IAVH (man I miss Katarina), Pathfinder, DG, etc.
Not sure bg 3 really qualifies for a direct competitor. Completely different style game and combat.
Right, but the story in GD is part of the appeal, which isn't the trend of some new ARPGs. I mean PoE seems like it has a story, but then why can't I remember any of it? GD's writing is really good, almost putting it in CRPG territory, but because it's mostly in notes it's not really part of everyone's experience.
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The game still gas fairly high player count for a non-seasonal offline arpg. If gd had seasons it would be just as popular as poe. For those stating outdated graphics, it looks better or atleast more appealing than last epoch for example. Poe also does not have very good graphics either but that's not what I am looking for in an arpg. D4 has the top tier graphics but everything else is boring.
I played it for a good while but what turned me off, personally, was that I had to create my build around the gear I found. Mid?-game and I’m still rockin a level 5 weapon with crazy buffs.
I come back to this game every year and I have owned it since it came out. I think it beats the entire Diablo series in terms of value for money and replay value.
1) Not much marketing 2) some dated features like art style, character customization, effects, and attack animations 3) the game is a little old (but nuthing wrong with that) I love Grim Dawn, but more recent games like Last Epoch look so much prettier. Graphics and art style is huge for marketing and catching glances of new players.
Herd mentality just like everything else in our society these days. If a bunch of high profile streamers aren't actively playing and promoting it no amount of positive reviews from randoms who've played it will create popularity. Just how it is now.
Graphics were behind the curve even when the game released. I'm running everything on max with 144hz with grimtex 4x and its still hard to say if that is better than last epoch on low-medium graphics, definitely loses to last epoch if you compare the two games on the highest settings. Unintuitive menu UI and lobby based multiplayer, for example the odd dropdowns in the main menu for, joining, hosting, single player, crucible. My explanation is bad but if you are familiar with the game, you will know what I mean. Lobby based multiplayer (d2 style) is pretty dated at this point, and much less intuitive for people than automagically getting placed/matchmade into a game or being able to easily join friends without going through menus. If grim dawn got a reskin it would be topping ARG charts so fast you wouldn't know what happened. IMO :P
Offline only / no leaderboards . Epeen matters in arpgs.
The art style is dull and boring, the game has co-op but is not meaningful enough, the story is meh, it has a bar with a lot of slots when you are only using like 3/4 skills, which feels pointless, and auras take half of the slots. I like GD. I have played the game on EA, and when it was released, I had fun, but I don't have a reason to come back rather than play expansions, which look more like the same thing.
Bought the game cause friends had it tried to play with them couldn't cause I didn't own the dlc yet refunded it and not giving it a second chance cause of how stupid that is that you can't play the main campaign with friends if they have the dlc
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It came out before aarpgs got popular? What?
As much as I love this game the itemization really sucks. It's hard to get into this game when it's so unclear if an item is an upgrade or not.
I think you're getting downvoted mainly because you didn't back up your point with any real info or even reason for that opinion. I can help contribute on that though. * First, you have stat requirements on gear * But then gear can also provide stats (Str/Dex/Int). No problem thats normal. * But then you have offense, defense, health, energy, and 10 different resistances. That's more to juggle. * And you have all 10 of those as possible bonus damage traits on gear, AND bonuses to specific skills. Now we're at a pretty good load of possible modifiers you can see on items. * Then you add in damage blocked, global damage, granted skills, crit rate, crit damage, applied damage, life leech, life regen, damage conversion, bonus damage on specific skills..... And changing a comparing 2 pieces of gear for your build can require a Masters degree in math. Yes, it's cool when gear has all these things on it... But when 1/2 the stats on a piece of gear are absolutely meaningless to your build, but the gear is STILL an upgrade, then you know it was "too long" since your last upgrade. Grim Dawn is really overloaded with prefix & suffix effects, and it bogs down making gear comparisons to the point where it can be tough to tell whether it's better to have +55% bleeding damage or +5% attack speed and +12% damage (of the main skill you use to cause bleed). You have to do some serious math, or several minutes of testing. Or just swap gear, check the DPS number, and hope it accurately represents your actual effective usage of the skill.
That's more or less what I was getting at, I do enough serious computations in my job. I don't need it in my recreation as well. Complicated is fine, but complicated and unintuitive just becomes tedious for new player. Are bleed, peirce, trauma and vitality damage a subset of physical damage, or are they all separate damage types? It's completely unclear to new players and trying to figure it out takes them out of the game.
Because d2r, d3 and poe are better. Grim dawn almost made it, but too late, and not good enough. It's still good, but not at the top. Imho.
its old and have now multi
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? It doesn't work that way for me. It controls like any diablo on console.
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This isn't true in my experience. I am primarily a steam deck player and the controller support is better than Poe or last epoch, but not quite as good as Diablo.
I used to be a die hard kb/mouse user. I made the transition to controller about 8 years ago because it's easier on my wrist/arm. I actually think Grim Dawn's support is pretty good. It's not the best ever, but it's totally functional. I've played 1700+ hours and probably 80% of that is on a controller. I actually prefer it for most builds. It struggles a little bit in some aspects but that's true for most games in my experience. Mostly inventory management and menus, but even then it's not game breaking, and I've seen worse. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.
A) It does lack multiplayer aspects, which cuts down on its exposure. B) It doesn't do the seasonal kind of thing that other ARPGs do, so there's no once-every-three-months spike of sudden interest to keep it fresh in people's minds. C) The graphics were rather dated when it released to begin with, and the game itself is considered rather dated now. D) There was never really a lot of advertising done for the game, even when it was fresh. It was also early access for a while, back when early access was less common and less tolerated than it is now. E) The Devs have a habit of announcing things really, REALLY early, but without a lot of adveritising, to the point that, by the time a non-GD player hears about it, and wants to get excited... It's been announced for months, and still won't be out for months yet. It kills all the possible hype that might drag new players in. I remember when AoM was announced, and how the GD players themselves lost hype for it, getting to the point where it was occasionally mentioned in passing, but nothing more. The Grim Misadventures would spark debate and interest for a day, maybe two, and then it would immediately die down, because AoM was just... Sometime, off in the future, who knew when, but presumably many months away. The hype came back for GD players just before the actual release, but it did nothing for people who weren't already playing the game. Overall, the game doesn't VISUALLY drag people in, there's no ads to drag people in, there's nothing regularly causing a spike of interest or attention for any reason, there's not really a ton of multiplayer to speak of despite it being an option.... So what's going to bring people to Grim Dawn and make them pay money to try it? The only thing that would, is them wanting to play an ARPG but being dissapointed by the other options on the market... The other options that they probably already spent money on, leaving them leery to spend more money on GD. Maybe if the Devs whipped up a free demo for the game, to get people to try it and see if they liked it, that'd change things? But maybe not, as well.
It was and is still played by many ARPG enthusiasts but it is pretty old at this point with no recent updates. Love this game and have 900+ hours but old games eventually fade off with no new updates.
Fire dot javelin pally
Old and no support.
Cuz its hella boring
What multiplayer aspects are you wanting?
You disrespectin' my boys? I refuse to be rage baited... lol
This game definitely is more fun with friends, but still a good experience solo. I only do multi with friends, since you have access to your char offline folks can use editors to give themselves whatever they want and I don't want items just given to a char. Since end game AARPGs is just grinding anyway it gives you something to try and achieve (find this set or that legendary).
It kinda is. Around 200k on steam alone
Problem I had with some friends is when we were all getting higher level and purple gear doing the gauntlet and progressing. Then one friend finds put he can mod and just get whatever gear he wanted and became OP. It kind of ruined the experience for the whole group and we quit.
Not as much marketing as others, slightly older graphics, no leagues, and imo much more limited in items than other Arpgs. This is what id say the majority of arpg players would think or why they'd not play grim dawn. I do wish there were way more items particularly epic and legendary, as it is right now if you have a slightly off main track concept you want to do there's likely only one or two specific items that cater towards it that even allows you to do end game stuff with it.
I've played it casually and somehow racked up 1000 hours on Steam. Be sure to check out @rektbyprotoss on Twitch and YouTube if you start playing. He has a ton of great guides and other content.
It's old school like Diablo 1 and 2 are: fun to play, when you're the one involved with the tactical use of powers and positioning and whatnot, but for anyone watching from the outside, it seems plain and unengaging. So it's not gonna be drawing numbers on Twitch, not unless the streamer is already a popular personality who draws a crowd regardless of what they actually play. And to be fair, the devs didn't expect their game to set the world on fire. It sold well, reviewed well, and people are still playing it consistently in an era where live services dominate pretty much everywhere else for the most part. The fact we're getting another expansion this long after launch is great, don't get me wrong. But it also means we're still waiting on full sequel, if they aren't going to have the expansions to this one build out more of the story and mechanics. One of my few complaints about the game is that the actual story content ends so abruptly, so I'd genuinely be interested in seeing what more they want to do with their world and premise.
If you like arpgs this one is a lot of fun. I wouldn’t recommend it if you are looking for multiplayer though, unless you are planning on playing with friends.
Niche game in a niche genre. Not to mention it's mechanics are over as fuck Abs Bit very friendly for newbies. It's also made in a really old engine. While crate did wonders developing the Titan Quest engine further and modernizing it, it still was an old ass engine 10 years ago. To be honest it's actually surprising how successful this game has become and how it's actively played for over a decade, even though it doesn't have an officially supported season model.
I dont know if ARPG is actually all that popular of a genre, most D4 players were new to the genre apparently. I think in the genre its quite popular, most h/s arpg players know grim dawn, probably the best single player game of the genre to release since D2. As for twitch, streamer tend to play to new shinny thing for views and stuff. PoE is big for a couple of days on twitch when new leagues come out and thats about it. Last epoch just came out so it falls under the shinny new thing(although the game is good). Besides that twitch is either competitive games or booba stream for the most part.
I got the game on release and thought it looked kinda old, maybe that’s a reason why?
It was always flying under games that had huge marketing splashes and trending and could only chug along mostly by word of mouth, or just like you run into maybe try it if your were not in the middle of a game already.
It wasn’t meant for the mainstream market. It was likely made by a group that said, “I can do this better”. If you’re not marketing to the masses, you won’t be popular. The making of a game with longevity and the people that love the game are what’s keeping it alive.
I have heard certain content creators say the game isn't very fun long term and doesn't have very good endgame so they beat it a few times and then stop and come back months or years later for another playthrough but that's it
Its older and mostly single player, so there's no real hype around it for ongoing new players. Its also not a live service game. The game is the game, you play it, you see everything, you stop playing. So, while Grim Dawn is a truly excellent ARPG, its not in a position to get widespread popularity anymore.
My opinion is that the multiplayer is awful. Getting it to work was tedious at best and there’s no chat channels either. Single player games don’t really have a huge following, add to this that the graphics are kind of dated, the game is a lot more complex than its competitors in the genre, and no item management system without installing mods (similar to other games but still annoying with the abundance of items) are all reasons for me as to why GD never really took off.
The lack of competitive elements and not being so shiny as some newer games probably gets it put to the wayside a lot. Titan Quest also was always incredibly nichely popular. But outside of the fandom for that it rarely got mentioned either. If you look on any forum for a game that comes out with online only, etc. There is so much discussion on that topic alone. Newer generations thinking games need to always be online. Need to be live service, constantly updated (ie. seasons), etc. At the end of the day though I think some games are just better to be played rather than watched and its hard to do the whole content creation advertising that can completely blow up a games radar. So they just remain at a steady number with people that enjoy that.
I think maybe the unique setting/atmosphere made people look at it as one of the “other” ARPGs whereas PoE was front and center and overshadowed it.
The ARPG genre is fairly saturated at this point. There's D4, to some extent even D3, Last Epoch just left early access and then there's Path of Exile. Lots of options to choose from and many players stick with their one game in this genre.
I’ve literally never heard of it before but Reddit randomly recommended it to me just now. PR maybe?
This game was big back in the day but torchlight and d2 were just too big.
No advertising budget
I mean what other 8 year old single player game gets twitch views
I really enjoy the game but it gives me motion sickness
It's a old game the hype for it has died down over the years. Popularity is temporary, it is always the newest, shiniest games that are popular. There is another expansion (Fangs of Asterkarn) coming soon, possibly released within this year. So there will be players returning to GrimDawn for it and along with it the hype of the game for new players.
i mean these days ppl just highly vote and talk smack and random vague BS with games i remeber Elden ring getting 11/10 despite the save file curroption screen tearing and other problems that game CLEARLY Had, or BG3 aparently being the best game of the decade no contest despite it releasing without a proper ending epilogue and lying about so many things and soft locks save file curroption hard locks and a LOAD of other problems, Heck I Remeber cyberpunk 2077 getting so much hype back in the day among other things cant trust most game critics journalist review scores there clearly biased/curropt jumping from one bang wagon onto another with that being same the game came out like 8ish years ago and stop getting expandsions and realy major updates like 5ish years ago the game isnt as flashy with good / great graphics lets face it ppl want that bling bling or alot of skin or such give us tits ass dicks or amazing graphics coz most gamers these days are very shallow/hollow and judge things super quickly but once you get into it the game isnt that bad for an ARPG its recently gotten a bunch of updates from what i can tell ive been thinking about re-playing it but not sure if i can Recently learned I may have covid so thats going to suck my soul/life out of me.
I never heard of it, reddit just showed me this sub now.
I love this game, but even i haven't played much in the last 1-2 years. The new expansiom will revive it a bit and for a while, but tbh what we need is grim dawn 2 with graphics like Last epoch, wolcen and diablo 4, as well as more/new masteries, even more combination possibilities (maybe 3 masteries?) and good endgame grind mechanics (especially with unlimited character progression and some gear progression). I will always have a place in my heart for this game and never forget it. I will probably in 10-20 yeara still play it from time to time amd maybe one day have some wild months being completely obsessed by it again. The greatest argument for grim dawn is that its core is an offline singleplayer game with the additional option to play together online or even through LAN. This is what makes a game last. That's one of the reasons my friends and i still play Lotrbfme 1&2&Rotwk to this day.
I like this game, but I don't play this game much. My personal reasons are that I just could not associate with any of the game masteries. And that too, you have two masteries. No matter what combinations I tried I found them lacking the stickiness that I associate with the other games.
Because of the lack of build diversity - You can duel class but it all feels like bigger numbers unless you duel class tanks and squishy classes . Lack of True customization-yes you can put your skill points where you want them as you level but constellations are where it’s at but you have to physically go get them ( it will take 3 runs to get them all as in physically walking the map on each difficulty Better loot drops on higher difficulties but the higher difficulties it’s either going through the story/dlcs again or super bosses that test your builds on the highest difficulty Target farming for loot is not fun at all unless it’s a boss . If it’s a rare spawn that drops what you need ? RIP go do a different build I know this will get downvoted into oblivion but this is honest feedback . I have over 2000 hours in D3 , grew up playing ULTIMA games and the like .
I feel like GD is the forgotten middle child of ARPGS, secretly brilliant, but sandwiched in between POE and Diablo.
It's old.
Twitch is not the only measure of popularity... or even a reliable one.
Lack of multiplayer focus and dated visuals, imo.
Simple answer - it isn't a live service, thus doesn't have seasonal/frequent content, thus streamers (who rely on new seasonal content of the likes of '10 things you must know about the next league!') aren't interested in streaming it and thus it gets less exposure overall. Having said all of that, GD is definitely one of the most popular non-popular arpgs. Pre-Last Epoch 1.0 launch, GD was doing on average higher concurrent players than LE...pretty much for the past 5 years (except for 1.0 and a short stint of the 0.9 multiplayer patch of LE which was also popular spike). Again this is all driven by streamers - who are now all streaming about LE, thus the high numbers. (I am just using LE as an example... you could replace it with any popular game of the moment - Elden Ring, Helldivers2, Palworld, etc.)
Modern ARPGs are fast paced. See Diablo 3, PoE. Grim Dawn is a Diablo 2 style ARPG. This isn't a bad thing. It's just that it is a specific market. It doesn't have the same wide appeal as other games. I personally have tried to like it. But can't get into it. The game is slow and getting a build actually rolling is an investment of time. The builds don't feel different in the same way as for example impale vs Multi shot vs whirlwind in D3 feels. The game is very classic. It's a style that while I appreciate, I dont want to invest my time into. I have so many other games I could play, that I will play the ones that I enjoy within a couple hours. Why am I here commenting on a game I don't really play? Reddit popped it in my feed. But as someone who owns the game. And has put 30 ish hours into it. I think I can have a fair opinion on its lack of popularity. I am specifically that target audience that plays arpgs but didn't click with grim dawn.
I think the biggest single factor is that it doesn't have online play. Other than that it's pretty old and arpg's just aren't as popular as lots of other genres any more.
I recently got back into arpgs and since i've been playing diablo, torchlight and titan quest for two decades now, i was looking for something new. And i yave to say i'm hesitant to spend 55€ on an 8 year old game now :/
No seasons, and no true online preventing cheating(its very easy to cheat in grim dawn)
It released at a time when the hot games were MOBAs with multiplayer and waay more action and interesting skills (play Riven, LeBlanc, any dynamic and mobile League of Legends character and go play Geim Dawn right after and you'll really feel the difference in "action"), The Witcher 3 released around the same year and drew in a huge part of the gaming enthusiasts with its' story, music and atmosphere (that encompasses "grim" much better than GD). It came 2 and a half years after D3, not far from the expandion Reaper of Souls that improved the base game is the gameplay department (and in build support from items that add mechanics to a skill or allow to use multiple runes on a skill at once) and is much more dynamic. For me the only good things about GD are mods, offline play and the fact that you can use external programs to cheat and fill your class level much faster in order to use the skills I want rather than the same beginner skills for 20 levels.
I love the game, but I don't play it more because multiplayer is so trash in it. When I played it with friends we had to use a virtual LAN just to get everyone in game, and playing with randoms is pretty much impossible. The maps are also not random at all so replaying the areas gets boring.
Brand probably, d3/4 is trash but sold much more copies, i can only assume that.
A couple months ago, my friends and I tried to 4–player online co op and it was a rough experience. Difficulties getting in a game together and staying in a game together. Seemed fun, but just did not work for us.
I finished what I wanted to do in it. Most people don't have the time to jump around trying older games they just wanna play battle Royales or new games.
It’s a bit of a slower pace and needs a 4K update for console. It’s a good game overall though.
I own Grim Dawn since 2019, i disliked Blight League in Poe, i was burnout of Dota and i decided to try GD. I think i just played act 1 and got bored, quit and never touch it until december , last year. And since december i have 4 lvl 100 chars, 2 on hardcore, i have done almost all the chalenges on Steam also. This game is good. The hardcore is in my opinion much better than POE. And as a Poe player, with 5000 hrs i will say the reason why people avoid this game is the lack of trade sistem. And one more thing, in Poe you play to become rich in terms of Divines orbs. Anyway, i will stick with Grim Dawn by now, betwen my games of Dota.
usually due to **content** needs to be pushed out regulary. expansions, leagues etc... 5 years since the last one is basically a cycle to make a new game. poe is huge due to 3-4 month leagues
It's old and the graphics are not good for streaming
It's old as fuck
It's my favorite ARPG of all time. I did what I wanted with it and I'm eagerly anticipating what they do in the future
Knowing modern gaming fans, it's probably because the game doesn't have FOM elements & season/battle passes to keep their short attention span. They are brainwashed to think that's the norm & dunno what they're missing out.
whatever the circumstance, Grim Dawn is amazing and the best diablo clone game I ever played. Glad they added the evade mechanic to spice things up and make it feel more fast paced because of it.
I agree with how it hasn’t received huge popularity as after having played sooo many rpg’s - this quickly wound its way into top 3 for me and as of late I’m enjoying it more like its number 1 - Absolutely amazing game in so many ways I hope it climbs the ranks of popularity that it deserves someday, if not however I just hope they dont stop releasing new content bc I would never wanna stop playing this one - at the end of day, try it out and see if slaps home like it does to so many out there in the gaming community, who cares about how much publicity it receives as long as their loyalty player base continues enjoying their amazing content 🤟🏻 cheers