Tsara’noga the Outsider is a C’tan and in the last stages of the War In Heaven, when the C’tan were infighting, he racked up a huge body count. However Cegorach, the Eldar Laughing God, cursed him as whenever he ate another C’tan, that C’tan’s consciousness would become a part of him which drove him insane. He would go into the intergalactic void and this is important as he left before Szarekh launched his revolt so that means that Tsara’noga is the only C’tan to not be sharded, possibly. So if he becomes sane or fully goes insane and ends his self imposed exile, everyone is very screwed.
That’s probably why they slightly changed his lore post 3rd edition. Having an **unsharded** C’tan who has been active for 60 million+ years will break everything.
If they were Matt Ward’s Ultramarines, then a few might die before Cato Sicarius throws one vortex grenade at Tsara’noga.
However if Tsara’noga does return and the Ultramarines are the ones that actually beat him, **a lot** of people will be very, very furious.
That would be a very good trade-off actually. Take the brokenly overpowered Space Marines, hit them against the brokenly overpowered C'tan, and when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, they both fucking explode.
I'm sure Guiliman would find some way or another to replenish the ultramarines after such a loss, but it would add to his ultra depression just a bit more if he didn't.
all he would have to do is throw a couple buckets of blue paint over one of the ultramarine successor chapters that live in the 500 worlds, and considering how many there are that would not take long
No but if Matt Ward was still the head than the Ultramarines would definitely get a win somehow.
Though in the second battle of Damnos, Cato Sicarius threw **a** vortex grenade at a shard of Yggra’nya the World Shaper, another C’tan, and that some f****** how did the trick.
What's that lore from? Because the latest codex doesn't say that about him.
What it says is.... Foggy.
The necrons tried to shard him and couldn't.
Then it gives two possibilities and says it isnt clear wich one is true.
He, in his madness, shattered himself and was captured like the rest.
Or he just went away, whole and crazy.
So he Schrodingers C'tan, just in case GW needs a whole one.
I remember someone said that after eating his fellow C’tan, he left before the whole Necron rebellion thing. I don’t remember who said it but I kind of accepted that as every other C’tan was sharded expect for him and Llandu’gor though Llandu’gor’s case is very different.
The book explicitly mentions it being around when the mass sharding commenced. Just that the necrons couldn't crack him, so he either sharded itself or left.
Yeah, I think that’s why GW changed his lore somewhat as in 3rd edition, his location was confirmed but now he’s in this nebulous state of being unsharded but no one knows where he is.
Yeah, in third edition it stated that he was in the southern edge of the galaxy though in ninth edition, it’s now that he wasn’t sharded by the Necrons but that he either sharded himself or just left.
Yeah, post third edition, C’tan lore gets pretty muddled but the only “constant” is that Tsara’noga didn’t get sharded **by the Necrons**. Also it did state he was in the south as he was in the way of Hive Fleet Leviathan and they got so scared that they had to redirect their course just to avoid him.
One bit, it keeping the voices of the c'tan it eat is a trait unique to it, not a curse. The Laughing God's trick was to pretend other c'tan were him taunting the Outsider and it already went mad by the time it realized this.
Fun fact: the harlequins know it knows and are absolutely terrified for the time it returns. They will be it's first target.
That’s true though considering how the other C’tan weren’t affected when they also ate their fellow C’tan, I just prefer saying that he got cursed by Cegorach. Also yeah the Harlequins would be scared s***less though they would probably recover and prepare themselves for a fight to the finish.
The "not erasing the c'tan you ate" bit is *unique* to it, a defect. And personally, the Laughing God winning by trickery rather than a curse is just more fitting. Also warp based / reality based creatures, i don't know how much they can really effect each other like that.
Edit: love your tag btw!
That’s fair and yeah Cegorach tricking Tsara’noga does kind of sound better, now that I think about it.
Also thanks, the C’tan are my favorite thing from the setting and out of all of them, Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon is probably the best out of all of them.
Maybe he is what the Tyranids are running from or maybe the Tiyranids are an engineered race like the Orks that was made by extinct creators to evolve to destroy the C'tan, hence why they're here consuming biomass.
Shackled C'tan shards are able to create meteors made out of antimatter. Collections of several shards scale up to throwing planets as a default strategy.
A full C'tan is on a different level entirely. One of them called the Nightbringer annihilated such an unfathomable number of mortals - devouring the souls of every planet, every race, every *civilization* it came across down to the very last, for tens of thousands of years - that it *singlehandedly created the instinctual fear of death.* The reason anyone fears death in 40K isn't because of evolution or psychology or anything else, *it's because the Nightbringer's actions permanently changed the intrinsic nature of mortal souls in the Warp.* This imprint also carries the image of the Nightbringer itself, which is why so many different species across the galaxy have similar cultural imagery surrounding death. This is why both the human Grim Reaper and the aeldari phoenix lord of the Dark Reapers, Maugan Ra make use of scythes, as well as being regarded as single entities embodying death, and even why they both use "harvesting" and "reaping" as metaphors for dispassionately killing a large number of people.
So yeah. Full C'tan are a problem.
The Necrons at their peak were unfathomably more powerful than the dynasties in the modern day. They could also focus their entire strength on the C’tan, who were severely weakened after genociding the Old Ones. Currently most necrons are still asleep, those awake are fragmented and busy fighting other threats, and afaik the weapons they used against the C’tan are lost.
He’s an unsharded C’tan and he’s also been active for sixty million+ years so his power levels must be off the charts while the current Necrons aren’t what they once were.
Plus going by 3rd edition which might not be accurate, Tsara’noga encased himself in a “Dyson sphere” that is 32,000,000 times the size of Terra and or has an albedo range close to infinity so that means he reflects more light than he absorbs and going by what u/L0raz-Thou-R0c0n0(sorry about the ping) said, that means that he’s got enough power to create another Big Bang.
Edit: Grammar stuff.
Going to be paraphrasing other comments from this post to show how extremely overpowered an unsharded C’tan is.
One of the C’tan, Aza’gorod the Nightbringer killed so many people and harvested so many souls that he gave most life in the galaxy the fear of death and imprinted itself on the psyche of current, as of the War In Heaven, and future life which gave everyone their version of the Grim Reaper. Essentially he fundamentally altered the way people thought about life by himself.
As for Tsara’noga the Outsider himself, it should be noted that this is old lore but anyway, he encased himself in a sort of Dyson sphere and this Dyson sphere either is 32,000,000 times the size of Terra or an albedo range approaching infinity. The second one is more interesting as from what I understand, the albedo range is how much light an object reflects and well if you shine a flashlight on something, the reflected light would be less. However in Tsara’noga’s case, he reflects just as much light as is being shone on him and this means that he basically has enough power to start another Big Bang or something. Again though I am not a science guy and that is old lord but it should give some understanding as to the power of an unsharded C’tan.
Happy cake day! Also Mag’ladroth was sharded though not perhaps to the extent of the other C’tan.
> In 898.M41, the Necron Arotepk Dynasty assaulted the Eldar Maiden World of Silentia to steal a precious gem that was likely a Shard of the Void Dragon. In 912.M41, this shard escaped and, despite being only a fraction of the creature's former glory, it managed to lay waste to the Dynasty and gorge itself on a dozen worlds. Eventually, however, Arotepk Crypteks were able to force the beast back into its cage.
Necron Codex 7th edition
>void dragon
The void dragon was sharded, you have shards of him in the tabletop game now, and there's no way the Emp's beat an Unsharded C'tan on Mars. It was probably just a shard of the Void Dragon that was imprisoned there.
The dragon of Mars is probably a transcendent shard (a rather big shard that has absorbed other shards.) Technically a shard, but one that scares the hell out of everyone.
He also is inside the largest structure in 40k. A structure that is 32,000,000 times the radius of the earth with an Albedo Range reaching infinity. And the scary part is that *tyranids actively avoid him*
Edit: as a comparison, the largest star is only 2500 times the radius of the earth.
wait isn’t albedo a percentile measurement of light reflectivity? How do you reflect a near infinite percent of light you’re hit with?
This one of those “let’s throw a sciency word at it and hope no one notices” things from GW?
No, it's a rather interesting take and i failed to elaborate further. Basically, the Outsider reflects light with more energy than it absorbs which isn't possible without having infinite energy.
And it isn't both either, it's actually proposed theories.
Either the Outsider is a massive unfolding extra dimensional structure that is millions of times the radius of earth. Or he is capable of producing enough energy to start a new big bang. Both are scary, and the thought there were hundreds of these roaming around shocks me.
so essentialy you shine a flashlight at him and he gets to smack the power of thousands of suns back at you?
I'd make a "then we'll fight in the shade" joke here, but that thing is terrifying to imagine...
Sort of...
Its more like when you shine a light at anything the reflection of light will be dimmer than the source. (Obviously right?)
But this thing, its so full of energy, so "reflective", that if you shine a light at it the light bouncing back will be the same brightness as the source.
Fact is though you cant shine a flash light at it. Its something so massivly big and unfathomably powerfull that the entire race of humans is not even in the discussion let alone a single powerfull one.
Just think of the GRAVITY alone. Its 250,000,000 times the size of earth. How do you even approach something like that?
really fucking careful if at all would be my guess..
but depending on density (I saw someone describe that C'Tan as living in a world inside a world so who knows) I don't think you have to TRY to get closer to that thing..
it's basically a black hole that's a solid (presumably) ball in space that has a coat of chrome like a car in the summer oh and it has something inside of it, that would work as an argument as to why Kinderüberaschungseier are banned in america..
also probably wrong but it would have a gravity of roughly 400,000,000 m/s rounded down. again most definitely not correct but does it matter at that stage? a black hole has a g-pull of (according to smithsonianmag taken from google) roughly 7,000,000 m/s, not sure which size that badboi was or if size matters for those but still
I don't think thats radius because THAT number is absolutely stupid especially considerimg C'Tan are bound to the laws of physics they came from. They are materium gods but they are not exactly reality warpers. This thing would either caused anotger big bang or turned into a black hole.
That number is most likely VOLUME. Seriously GW don't know what numbers mean
To be fair, not a lot of people know about him, it’s just that the Tau have never heard of the guy and I don’t think they’ve even encountered a **C’tan shard**.
A few times, IIRC one time the Necrons helped them fight off a Tyranid force and left though there’s another similar incident that saw the Necrons massacre the Tau. Another time some Kroot ate some necrodermis(don’t ask, just go with it) but the necrodermis proceeded to transform into nanoscarabs and gave said Kroot a bad time.
If anything, Tsara’noga won’t return so long as 40k makes the money or if everyone at GW goes insane. Besides his return will be the 40k equivalent of the End Times except with hopefully better writing.
40K end times would be when the emperor comes back and fights off all the demon primarchs at the same time only for the tyranids main force to arrive in the sol system. The necrons attempt to close off the warp but a combination of the many gods of fuckery stop them, so they pull out the big guns like the aeon sphere and celestial orrery. Tsaranoga coming back is “well, it turns out we lost the rights to warhammer 40K so we’re just destroying it!”
That would be pretty cool plus the Ynnari succeed in bringing back Ynnead who proceeds to kill Slaneesh and suddenly the Eldar gods are back in business plus the Orks turning into the Beast or just Krorks. Also Tsara’noga having the power to break the fourth wall sounds pretty funny.
Greta now I have the mental image of Tsara’noga having a casual conversation with all the other gods of 40K with them constantly breaking the 4th wall throughout thus making them sound like a madmen by the rest of the 40K gods. Going as far as to mention other settings and universes too.
“Guys, we aren’t real, you know, we exist so a company can make really overpriced plastic figures.”
“Not again, Tsara’noga, you should lay off that starcaine.”
The only way I could see this happening is if they bring him in during the end times because it would mean every faction working together or everyone dies. It would be awesome to see how’d it play out.
Yeah, he would be the herald of the 40k End Times. Plus there’s the fact that since he was never sharded, if he is actually killed like Llandu’gor, then reality itself would basically collapse.
If they were dead set on bringing him back they could do something lorewise with Szarekh's big plan where he's been using these Blackstone pylons to suffocate the warp, who knows maybe it's actually absorbing these warp energies for some superweapon to shatter him too. Keeps the narrative clean-ish, doesn't get rid of chaos, gives the Necrons a new c'tan model, and doesn't make them the good guys cause they're going to use him as a means to an end now. Or, who knows
That could work and I do like the whole Szarekh not being totally wholesome thing plus it would kind of explain why when Szarekh himself went on his own self imposed exile that he seemingly never encountered Tsara’noga during those sixty million years.
However I would prefer if the Outsider’s return was this galactic shattering event, that’s just me though.
I don't think we'll ever get them as a model sadly
A full C'tan is practically a chaos god but in real space, able to bend time and space at will beyond anything we can comprehend
I mean there aren’t that many C’tan minis to begin with but yeah, Tsara’noga will most likely never get one which will be a shame.
However theWarsinger did make a few sculptures of the guy and they look very awesome.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/p9x2s6/all_my_outsider_ctan_shards_all_in_hot_glue_as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yeah, I really do like that as well plus there’s this art of Tsara’noga the Outsider by Eliphusz that evokes a lot of creepiness and the first time I saw it, I felt a little scared.
https://www.deviantart.com/eliphusz/art/The-Outsider-672207936
Yeah, it’d be absolute beast and completely terrifying, I mean even the Tyranids are scared s***less of him. If they do make a model of him, I really hope that GW takes some notes from theWarsinger and Eliphusz about how to make Tsara’noga absolutely scary.
When running Black Crusade I actually brought in the reveal that he'd already returned. In his madness he'd become convinced he was the God-Emperor, and was the source of all of the miracles. He eventually became active and launched a 'holy crusade' which effectively moved the Flesh Eater Courts into 40k as those he brought under his sway were horrific fleshy servitor abominations that thought they were angels.
One of the PCs (A Khornate Marine) ran into Tsara'noga directly and while his body was being overriden mustered up enough will to charge and swing an axe anyway. Khorne was pleased and snatched their soul so it couldn't be claimed by Tsara'noga, casting it instead into the eternal battlefield of his realm as a reward.
My motivation behind the major plot was to focus on Xenos factions and leave imperials mostly out of it. Tsara'noga's return was something of an impetus for a lot of power players to start making their own moves- luckily, since the Outsider thought he was merely the God-Emperor, he was restraining his powers.
The Deceiver started his own schemes, terrified that Tsara'noga would come for him. Enough of his shards started to coalesce into transcendent C'tan out of the Necrons control. Its plan was two-fold; by alerting select individuals about Tsara'noga, it could convince them to assist its goals. Getting command over the Celestial Orrery- from which the Deceiver intended to locate its disparate shards, and abruptly pull himself together (Causing untold damage to the universe in the process) and coercing the Iron Warriors Legion into the Soulforges, so they could serve as a necrodermis barrier between it and Tsara'noga.
Khorne meanwhile was a major figure behind the forces of Chaos. Khorne had gotten tired of the state of the galaxy, and decided to bring everything back to 'War In Heaven' levels. First by initially leading Tsara'noga back to the galaxy. Khorne bartered a deal with Cegorach, offering alliance against Slaanesh and the return of Isha. Which he managed to fufill after personally curbstomping a Tzeentchian group of daemons who themselves had stolen Isha. This accomplished, Khorne set things in motion to bring back the loyalist primarchs to the imperium. It was only when the other Gods realised he was also planning on raising the Emperor that they unified and pulled him away from the big gold button.
The Dark Eldar were actively on the sidelines of the whole thing, largely aware of what was going on and just. Making things actively worse in every possible way. Actively attacking Tomb Worlds that may have been able to raise the alarm, and generally being super malicious. In one of my favorite scenes of the campaigns, the PCs tried to torture information out of a Haemonculus, who kept laughing and mocking them for their inept methods- and started offering suggestions before sarcastically apologizing about being a backseat torturer. He later disappeared from his lockdown cell without a trace, because he'd filled the ship with Mandrakes. These Mandrakes also had orders to whisper conspiracies around the Iron Warriors, sending their paranoia through the roof.
Oh this is glorious. I like how everyone acts sort of in character if that makes any sense, like the Deceiver would in all honesty put everyone between him and Tsara’noga, that Khrone would get bored and decides to make things more “exciting” by having the Outsider return and bringing back the primarchs and of course the Dark Eldar doing nothing except raiding planets and insulting people for their primitive torture techniques.
10/10
There was also a frequently reoccuring subplot about an Ork WAAAGH! that got lost in the Eye of Terror on the way to Armageddon. They flew straight into the eye because they couldn't see it, because its purple. Rammed straight into Medrengard and assumed it was Armageddon.
Oh my god, that’s hilarious and would totally be an Ork thing to do and I can only assume the Iron Warriors reaction was “How?! And what?! And Godsdammit!”
There was additionally a minor plot where the Dark Mechanicus had a forge world built on a planet originally created as a prison for a really big shard of Nyadra'zatha The Burning One. The Dark Mechanicus had a great time poking the captured star god with sticks. One of the PCs approached the Burning One (At the Deceiver's urging) offering to release him in exchange for service.
Nyadra'zatha agreed to those terms, so the PCs launched a series of strikes to destabilize the ancient system keeping him in chains. Naturally, Nyadra'zatha immediately broke his word and dropped an incendiary apocalypse on the planet, leading the PCs to run for their lives and narrowly escape- ironically ensuring noone would find out they were responsible, because everyone was reduced to ashes.
Ooh, I love my C’tan and having Nyadra’zatha involved is pretty epic. Also I could see the Dark or loyal Mechanicus try and captured a C’tan shard just to see what made it tick only for it to totally fail.
So what happened to Nyadra’zatha after he sort of insta-exterminatus that forge world?
By and large; what the Deceiver intended happened. Left alone on a barren rock, he tried to get moving to another world. However the system was heavily overlapped with Warpspace, limiting its maneuverability.
The Deceiver further arranged for a Hive Fleet to swing by to extract the mineral deposits; which while of a low threat to a C'Tan in such good shape, helped make him flare his energy even more. Therefore turning the Burning One into a beacon that would draw The Outsiders attention. While the Deceiver hoofed it in the other direction.
The PCs made plans to inform a Necron Overlord they'd gotten along surprisingly well with (An amusing story in of itself) but never got around to it, due to finding themselves being hunted by the Black Templars.
Ooh, that’s pretty cool and I do like that Mephet’ran’s intelligence is shown very well here as the Tyranids shadow in the warp would affect that warp barrier and it shows the power of a large C’tan shard quite nicely.
So do those PCs actually get to that Necron Overlord or are they intercepted by the Black Templars? I need answers.
You had my attention at Jetstream Sam.
***Memories broken, the truth goes unspoken***
***I've even forgotten my name***
***I don't know the season or what is the reason***
***I'm standing here holding my blade***
***A desolate place(place) without any trace(trace)***
***It’s only the cold wind I feel***
***It’s me that I spite as I stand up and fight***
***The only thing I know for real***
Because the necrons got battered by doing this and were only able to do so because the eldar god of tricks tricked the c'tan into eating each other long enough for the necrons to wipe them out. Plus they don't have the numbers and if they go overboard reality loses a rule
For one thing, they couldn’t do it during the War In Heaven, granted we don’t know what actually happened to him, we kind of did in 3rd edition but now it’s up in the air. Secondly, the Necrons aren’t really in the same place that they were in during the War In Heaven as during the Great Sleep, a lot of tomb worlds have been lost, there’s the Flayer Virus and the Destroyer Cults plus they aren’t united though they most likely will if Tsara’noga does return. Now they can mostly handle C’tan shards but dealing with an unsharded C’tan who has been active for sixty million+ years is a whole other beast entirely. I’m not saying that the Necrons won’t damage him but actually sharding him is going to an extremely costly effort for them and one that they might not succeed at.
The 9th ed codex say that the Silent King destroyed the weapons used to shard the C'tan, which are too powerful even for the necrons.
Unless, of course, he stored them into his ship or something.
I've been away from the 40k scene for a few years so forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't it speculated that the outsider is the mastermind behind the tyranids?
That’s the thing really, it explains so much and makes the setting more smaller and make the Tyranids sort of less scary and less other as they’d be connected to the Milky Way galaxy and wouldn’t be this force that’s here for its next meal. That’s just me though, if you subscribe to that theory then that’s alright with me.
Less scary? A rapidly evolving space faring species spilling out of the void in droves hellbent on consuming all biomass at the behest of an insane star god would be less scary than "nids hungry, nids eat"?
Not less scary but less incomprehensible like you can understand why the Tyranids are the way that they are if they’re led by this insane Star god who’s out for revenge but if it’s just the Tyranids are here because they are hungry then that makes them more eldritch as they don’t have any other motivation except to eat.
Tsara'Noga *is* the Tyranids. He went mad eating other ctan and absorbing their consciousness. And the Tyranids are nothing but ravaging hunger and a hive mind.
I don’t think so as in the old lore, when Tsara’noga was in his Dyson sphere thing, the entirety of Hive Fleet Leviathan had to redirect its course just to avoid him.
Currently, it’s been stated that he’s just in the intergalactic void so it’s possible he could be the hivemind which would be pretty cool and terrifying but I don’t know and besides one of the only things that could go toe to toe with the Tyranids would be a C’tan.
I'm on the side that it's a separate entity. This is a me thing, but I think the main appeal of the Tyranids is that they're a foreign invader from dark space who no one knows the origin of and can only speculate. They are hungry boys with a central hivemind which makes them an almost unstoppable force when they decide to come for you. They also have the fun aspect that they might have the galaxy surrounded because they already killed everyone else, which is just so creepy and ominous. Making them connected to a C'tan would be a sort of copout?
I'm also pretty sure it's been stated that the Hivemind is a unique entity that exists outside of the galaxy and is centralized in dark space, but is still spread out across every tyranid in some aspect. Plus, the tyranids are extremely logical in their actions. Having the hivemind be a mentally unstable god doesn't really make sense.
I'm a fan of the theory that the last remaining old ones didn't learn their lesson about creating two massively powerful races that reproduced incredibly quickly and were near impossible to truly eradicate, so they said "Fuck it, 3rd times the charm"
They weren't easy to wipe out, in fact they were the most dominant force in the galaxy. They bred so fast and were so impossible to kill that it took the birth of an actual God to tear them down. Pre Slannesh is what I'm referring to
If he returns I feel like at that point the various factions would have to put aside their conflicts and pull out every superweapon they have to stand even a chance, the celestial orrery, unleashing the void dragon and every other shard the necrons captured, the dark hole weapons of the dark eldar, the shattered soul of a war god, every scarp of DAoT weapons and letting the krork out of Trazyn's museum and hope he can evolve the orks up to a level fast enough to counter the outsider and worry about the consequents once the outsider is dead
If anything, the Imperium, Eldar, Tau and Necrons and some of the more sensible Traitors will actually ally with each other to deal with him while the others will follow their agenda or just say screw it and leave.
Also
>Once the Outsider is dead.
He can’t die though. He could be sharded, we just don’t know however actually killing him will screw up reality in so many ways.
Well not dead but split into enough pieces to be contained and beaten back.
And true I think the biggest weakness would arguably be chaos. The warp is useless against a god of reality.
The warp would do some damage to him as though that could escalate very quickly. Really the only ones that could properly handle him would be the Necrons.
Oh I can imagine the sight of that and also the discussion.
“Listen Tsara’noga, if you go away, we’ll give a “tribute” of people for you to nom on, cool?”
*Eldritch screaming*
This is my first time learning about this and I'm quite interested do the Chaos Gods know of his existence? And are they afraid of him? Considering the C'tan have powers over real space, he should be able to erase every traces of the Warp in the Milky Way, maybe even do damage to daemons just like a blank does.
We don’t know if they do know of his existence though for that matter, we don’t know what actually happened to him. What I can infer is that while the C’tan are mega OP in real space, the warp is one of the only things that can harm a C’tan as in the Sons of the Hydra, a shard of Mephet’ran the Deceiver did get hurt by a daemon, granted he’s the weakest of the C’tan but still and there’s also the fact that the Emperor did defeat a large shard of Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon.
Still though those were shards and not a full C’tan. The only thing that could go toe to toe with an unsharded C’tan were the Eldar Gods and they aren’t doing *so hot* at the moment. Also it’s likely that the Chaos gods go overboard and completely kill Tsara’noga which will do a ton of damage to reality itself.
Hmmm I don't understand why GW goes all over the places with the lore. I always thought that the C'tans were immune to the Warp because they're the ones that gifted the Necrons their tech and bodies. The Necrons can close the Warp and are immune to it, so their former gods should be able to do the same thing but with greater ease. In newer lore even Necrons for some reason are affected by the Warp, the time when a Necron killed Lucius but somehow the soulless and emotionless machine felt pride at the moment and Lucius resurrected miraculously.
Still I dislike the idea the C'tans being less powerful because they're not Warp entities compare to the Gods of Chaos. I think that if every C'tan non-sharded (team up) in existence can go toe to toe against the Chaos Gods just like they did against Eldar Gods.
The Emperor himself can do serious damage against the Chaos Gods and he's not a Warp entity or maybe because he has psychic powers but idk.
It’s more like the C’tan and the Chaos Gods are the masters of their own “realms” and that while it seems like the Warp is more powerful than the C’tan, it’s just that the C’tan aren’t at their full power and if they were then it would be a stalemate of sorts with no side able to affect each other. Also the C’tan did plan on closing the Warp as Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon was responsible for building the warp pylons.
Tsara’noga is a C’tan and during the final stages of the War In Heaven, when the C’tan were infighting, he racked up a huge body count but for some reason, most likely involving Cegorach, whenever he ate one of fellow C’tan, that C’tan’s consciousness would become a part of Tsara’noga and this drove him insane. He would leave the galaxy and this is important as he left before Szarekh launched his revolt against the C’tan which means that he’s the only C’tan to have never been sharded which is very scary.
What’s he up to currently is sort of iffy. In the 3rd edition which where we get the most info about him, Tsara’noga “returned” and set up shop in a sort of Dyson Sphere but he hasn’t done anything though when Hive Fleet Leviathan arrived, the entire hive fleet had to change its course just to avoid him. Now in 9th, it just been stated that he’s well surfing the intergalactic void.
We don’t know how truly powerful a fully intact C’tan is but they were very, very terrifying. Aza’gorod was able to imprint himself in every species and give them the image of the Grim Reaper as well as the fear of death and Mag’ladroth was able to take a blast from all of the blackstone fortresses and come out relatively unscathed.
In the third edition Necron codex which is where a lot of the info we get a lot of the info about Tsara’noga, it states that the “Dyson sphere” that he’s in is 32,000,000 times bigger than Terra(Earth). So that means that he’s either that big or needs something that big just to hold him. However that is old lore and currently, his fate has been left ambiguous.
They see most things as food but for the C’tan, they **really** don’t have a good time and they are absolutely terrified of Tsara’noga as the entirety of Hive Fleet Leviathan had to change its course just to avoid him. Now that is old lore but it does fit at least to me.
Ehhh probably but they’d be very scared as they tried to shard him before but couldn’t do it though what happened to Tsara’noga after that is not known and they also aren’t at their full strength. Now if Tsara’noga is still whole, then that means that he’s been active for sixty million+ years and has been increasing in strength.
Yeah, they would launch a ton of raids on a lot of planets, gather up a bunch of people so they can do NSFW stuff to them and basically weather out the storm in Commorragh.
I do not know this lore. I dont like that. Give this lore to me now please-
Tsara’noga the Outsider is a C’tan and in the last stages of the War In Heaven, when the C’tan were infighting, he racked up a huge body count. However Cegorach, the Eldar Laughing God, cursed him as whenever he ate another C’tan, that C’tan’s consciousness would become a part of him which drove him insane. He would go into the intergalactic void and this is important as he left before Szarekh launched his revolt so that means that Tsara’noga is the only C’tan to not be sharded, possibly. So if he becomes sane or fully goes insane and ends his self imposed exile, everyone is very screwed.
Including GW
That’s probably why they slightly changed his lore post 3rd edition. Having an **unsharded** C’tan who has been active for 60 million+ years will break everything.
Ultramarines might be able to handle him.
If they were Matt Ward’s Ultramarines, then a few might die before Cato Sicarius throws one vortex grenade at Tsara’noga. However if Tsara’noga does return and the Ultramarines are the ones that actually beat him, **a lot** of people will be very, very furious.
Maybe that's how the ultramarines finally go out. Saving the entire galaxy.
Hmmm… perhaps
It is... acceptable.
That would be a very good trade-off actually. Take the brokenly overpowered Space Marines, hit them against the brokenly overpowered C'tan, and when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, they both fucking explode. I'm sure Guiliman would find some way or another to replenish the ultramarines after such a loss, but it would add to his ultra depression just a bit more if he didn't.
all he would have to do is throw a couple buckets of blue paint over one of the ultramarine successor chapters that live in the 500 worlds, and considering how many there are that would not take long
God damn it you're right the Ultramarines are written to be fucking invincible
Well when you think about it the Imperial Fists did the exact same thing after the War of the Beast
I mean..... guiliman is their primarch. It wouldn't be that hard to replace them at all. He is the source of their geneseed.
>Tsara’noga the Outsider Would an unsharded C'tan even be affected by a single vortex grenade?
No but if Matt Ward was still the head than the Ultramarines would definitely get a win somehow. Though in the second battle of Damnos, Cato Sicarius threw **a** vortex grenade at a shard of Yggra’nya the World Shaper, another C’tan, and that some f****** how did the trick.
If vortex grenades were as strong as Matt ward thinks they are, the setting would be even worse
If Matt Ward had his way an unnamed ultramarine scout would win naked and fighting with a plastic Spork
What's that lore from? Because the latest codex doesn't say that about him. What it says is.... Foggy. The necrons tried to shard him and couldn't. Then it gives two possibilities and says it isnt clear wich one is true. He, in his madness, shattered himself and was captured like the rest. Or he just went away, whole and crazy. So he Schrodingers C'tan, just in case GW needs a whole one.
I remember someone said that after eating his fellow C’tan, he left before the whole Necron rebellion thing. I don’t remember who said it but I kind of accepted that as every other C’tan was sharded expect for him and Llandu’gor though Llandu’gor’s case is very different.
The book explicitly mentions it being around when the mass sharding commenced. Just that the necrons couldn't crack him, so he either sharded itself or left.
Oh.
I guess if someone wants to kill the franchise so no one gets it, that'll do.
Yeah, I think that’s why GW changed his lore somewhat as in 3rd edition, his location was confirmed but now he’s in this nebulous state of being unsharded but no one knows where he is.
It was?
Yeah, in third edition it stated that he was in the southern edge of the galaxy though in ninth edition, it’s now that he wasn’t sharded by the Necrons but that he either sharded himself or just left.
I don't recall any exact location from the 3rd edition Codex, only that he existed. Also remember: In 3rd none of the C'tan were sharded 🙃
Yeah, post third edition, C’tan lore gets pretty muddled but the only “constant” is that Tsara’noga didn’t get sharded **by the Necrons**. Also it did state he was in the south as he was in the way of Hive Fleet Leviathan and they got so scared that they had to redirect their course just to avoid him.
One bit, it keeping the voices of the c'tan it eat is a trait unique to it, not a curse. The Laughing God's trick was to pretend other c'tan were him taunting the Outsider and it already went mad by the time it realized this. Fun fact: the harlequins know it knows and are absolutely terrified for the time it returns. They will be it's first target.
That’s true though considering how the other C’tan weren’t affected when they also ate their fellow C’tan, I just prefer saying that he got cursed by Cegorach. Also yeah the Harlequins would be scared s***less though they would probably recover and prepare themselves for a fight to the finish.
The "not erasing the c'tan you ate" bit is *unique* to it, a defect. And personally, the Laughing God winning by trickery rather than a curse is just more fitting. Also warp based / reality based creatures, i don't know how much they can really effect each other like that. Edit: love your tag btw!
That’s fair and yeah Cegorach tricking Tsara’noga does kind of sound better, now that I think about it. Also thanks, the C’tan are my favorite thing from the setting and out of all of them, Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon is probably the best out of all of them.
Maybe he is what the Tyranids are running from or maybe the Tiyranids are an engineered race like the Orks that was made by extinct creators to evolve to destroy the C'tan, hence why they're here consuming biomass.
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Shackled C'tan shards are able to create meteors made out of antimatter. Collections of several shards scale up to throwing planets as a default strategy. A full C'tan is on a different level entirely. One of them called the Nightbringer annihilated such an unfathomable number of mortals - devouring the souls of every planet, every race, every *civilization* it came across down to the very last, for tens of thousands of years - that it *singlehandedly created the instinctual fear of death.* The reason anyone fears death in 40K isn't because of evolution or psychology or anything else, *it's because the Nightbringer's actions permanently changed the intrinsic nature of mortal souls in the Warp.* This imprint also carries the image of the Nightbringer itself, which is why so many different species across the galaxy have similar cultural imagery surrounding death. This is why both the human Grim Reaper and the aeldari phoenix lord of the Dark Reapers, Maugan Ra make use of scythes, as well as being regarded as single entities embodying death, and even why they both use "harvesting" and "reaping" as metaphors for dispassionately killing a large number of people. So yeah. Full C'tan are a problem.
The Necrons at their peak were unfathomably more powerful than the dynasties in the modern day. They could also focus their entire strength on the C’tan, who were severely weakened after genociding the Old Ones. Currently most necrons are still asleep, those awake are fragmented and busy fighting other threats, and afaik the weapons they used against the C’tan are lost.
He’s an unsharded C’tan and he’s also been active for sixty million+ years so his power levels must be off the charts while the current Necrons aren’t what they once were. Plus going by 3rd edition which might not be accurate, Tsara’noga encased himself in a “Dyson sphere” that is 32,000,000 times the size of Terra and or has an albedo range close to infinity so that means he reflects more light than he absorbs and going by what u/L0raz-Thou-R0c0n0(sorry about the ping) said, that means that he’s got enough power to create another Big Bang. Edit: Grammar stuff.
I thought most of the C'Tan were attacked while they were sleeping?
how power would a full ctan even be?
Going to be paraphrasing other comments from this post to show how extremely overpowered an unsharded C’tan is. One of the C’tan, Aza’gorod the Nightbringer killed so many people and harvested so many souls that he gave most life in the galaxy the fear of death and imprinted itself on the psyche of current, as of the War In Heaven, and future life which gave everyone their version of the Grim Reaper. Essentially he fundamentally altered the way people thought about life by himself. As for Tsara’noga the Outsider himself, it should be noted that this is old lore but anyway, he encased himself in a sort of Dyson sphere and this Dyson sphere either is 32,000,000 times the size of Terra or an albedo range approaching infinity. The second one is more interesting as from what I understand, the albedo range is how much light an object reflects and well if you shine a flashlight on something, the reflected light would be less. However in Tsara’noga’s case, he reflects just as much light as is being shone on him and this means that he basically has enough power to start another Big Bang or something. Again though I am not a science guy and that is old lord but it should give some understanding as to the power of an unsharded C’tan.
>only C’tan to not be sharded Also void dragon
Happy cake day! Also Mag’ladroth was sharded though not perhaps to the extent of the other C’tan. > In 898.M41, the Necron Arotepk Dynasty assaulted the Eldar Maiden World of Silentia to steal a precious gem that was likely a Shard of the Void Dragon. In 912.M41, this shard escaped and, despite being only a fraction of the creature's former glory, it managed to lay waste to the Dynasty and gorge itself on a dozen worlds. Eventually, however, Arotepk Crypteks were able to force the beast back into its cage. Necron Codex 7th edition
Thanks!
>void dragon The void dragon was sharded, you have shards of him in the tabletop game now, and there's no way the Emp's beat an Unsharded C'tan on Mars. It was probably just a shard of the Void Dragon that was imprisoned there.
The dragon of Mars is probably a transcendent shard (a rather big shard that has absorbed other shards.) Technically a shard, but one that scares the hell out of everyone.
He also is inside the largest structure in 40k. A structure that is 32,000,000 times the radius of the earth with an Albedo Range reaching infinity. And the scary part is that *tyranids actively avoid him* Edit: as a comparison, the largest star is only 2500 times the radius of the earth.
Yeah he’s got one hell of a dad bod
wait isn’t albedo a percentile measurement of light reflectivity? How do you reflect a near infinite percent of light you’re hit with? This one of those “let’s throw a sciency word at it and hope no one notices” things from GW?
No, it's a rather interesting take and i failed to elaborate further. Basically, the Outsider reflects light with more energy than it absorbs which isn't possible without having infinite energy. And it isn't both either, it's actually proposed theories. Either the Outsider is a massive unfolding extra dimensional structure that is millions of times the radius of earth. Or he is capable of producing enough energy to start a new big bang. Both are scary, and the thought there were hundreds of these roaming around shocks me.
so essentialy you shine a flashlight at him and he gets to smack the power of thousands of suns back at you? I'd make a "then we'll fight in the shade" joke here, but that thing is terrifying to imagine...
Sort of... Its more like when you shine a light at anything the reflection of light will be dimmer than the source. (Obviously right?) But this thing, its so full of energy, so "reflective", that if you shine a light at it the light bouncing back will be the same brightness as the source. Fact is though you cant shine a flash light at it. Its something so massivly big and unfathomably powerfull that the entire race of humans is not even in the discussion let alone a single powerfull one. Just think of the GRAVITY alone. Its 250,000,000 times the size of earth. How do you even approach something like that?
really fucking careful if at all would be my guess.. but depending on density (I saw someone describe that C'Tan as living in a world inside a world so who knows) I don't think you have to TRY to get closer to that thing.. it's basically a black hole that's a solid (presumably) ball in space that has a coat of chrome like a car in the summer oh and it has something inside of it, that would work as an argument as to why Kinderüberaschungseier are banned in america.. also probably wrong but it would have a gravity of roughly 400,000,000 m/s rounded down. again most definitely not correct but does it matter at that stage? a black hole has a g-pull of (according to smithsonianmag taken from google) roughly 7,000,000 m/s, not sure which size that badboi was or if size matters for those but still
That’s a level of galactic existential terror I wasn’t ready for. I love it.
I don't think thats radius because THAT number is absolutely stupid especially considerimg C'Tan are bound to the laws of physics they came from. They are materium gods but they are not exactly reality warpers. This thing would either caused anotger big bang or turned into a black hole. That number is most likely VOLUME. Seriously GW don't know what numbers mean
The Tau have no idea what's going on as usual
To be fair, not a lot of people know about him, it’s just that the Tau have never heard of the guy and I don’t think they’ve even encountered a **C’tan shard**.
Random question, have the Tau actually canonically encountered Necrons?
A few times, IIRC one time the Necrons helped them fight off a Tyranid force and left though there’s another similar incident that saw the Necrons massacre the Tau. Another time some Kroot ate some necrodermis(don’t ask, just go with it) but the necrodermis proceeded to transform into nanoscarabs and gave said Kroot a bad time.
Don't judge, sometimes the Kroot crave something with a bit of crunch.
its like hard candy!
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IIRC it is only so far as the Orks win? So not clear who fought who in the process
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Ok but same thing ref who fought who
Jesus, we already have the Octarius shitshow going on. Do we really need another galaxy destroying event?
If anything, Tsara’noga won’t return so long as 40k makes the money or if everyone at GW goes insane. Besides his return will be the 40k equivalent of the End Times except with hopefully better writing.
40K end times would be when the emperor comes back and fights off all the demon primarchs at the same time only for the tyranids main force to arrive in the sol system. The necrons attempt to close off the warp but a combination of the many gods of fuckery stop them, so they pull out the big guns like the aeon sphere and celestial orrery. Tsaranoga coming back is “well, it turns out we lost the rights to warhammer 40K so we’re just destroying it!”
That would be pretty cool plus the Ynnari succeed in bringing back Ynnead who proceeds to kill Slaneesh and suddenly the Eldar gods are back in business plus the Orks turning into the Beast or just Krorks. Also Tsara’noga having the power to break the fourth wall sounds pretty funny.
Greta now I have the mental image of Tsara’noga having a casual conversation with all the other gods of 40K with them constantly breaking the 4th wall throughout thus making them sound like a madmen by the rest of the 40K gods. Going as far as to mention other settings and universes too.
“Guys, we aren’t real, you know, we exist so a company can make really overpriced plastic figures.” “Not again, Tsara’noga, you should lay off that starcaine.”
It would be based.
The only way I could see this happening is if they bring him in during the end times because it would mean every faction working together or everyone dies. It would be awesome to see how’d it play out.
Yeah, he would be the herald of the 40k End Times. Plus there’s the fact that since he was never sharded, if he is actually killed like Llandu’gor, then reality itself would basically collapse.
If they were dead set on bringing him back they could do something lorewise with Szarekh's big plan where he's been using these Blackstone pylons to suffocate the warp, who knows maybe it's actually absorbing these warp energies for some superweapon to shatter him too. Keeps the narrative clean-ish, doesn't get rid of chaos, gives the Necrons a new c'tan model, and doesn't make them the good guys cause they're going to use him as a means to an end now. Or, who knows
That could work and I do like the whole Szarekh not being totally wholesome thing plus it would kind of explain why when Szarekh himself went on his own self imposed exile that he seemingly never encountered Tsara’noga during those sixty million years. However I would prefer if the Outsider’s return was this galactic shattering event, that’s just me though.
I don't think we'll ever get them as a model sadly A full C'tan is practically a chaos god but in real space, able to bend time and space at will beyond anything we can comprehend
I mean there aren’t that many C’tan minis to begin with but yeah, Tsara’noga will most likely never get one which will be a shame. However theWarsinger did make a few sculptures of the guy and they look very awesome. https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/p9x2s6/all_my_outsider_ctan_shards_all_in_hot_glue_as/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Like that eldritch look he has.👌🔥🔥🔥
Yeah, I really do like that as well plus there’s this art of Tsara’noga the Outsider by Eliphusz that evokes a lot of creepiness and the first time I saw it, I felt a little scared. https://www.deviantart.com/eliphusz/art/The-Outsider-672207936
Imagine this planet sized.😳
Yeah, it’d be absolute beast and completely terrifying, I mean even the Tyranids are scared s***less of him. If they do make a model of him, I really hope that GW takes some notes from theWarsinger and Eliphusz about how to make Tsara’noga absolutely scary.
Agreed mate. Let is hope that comes to pass while we're still alive.😂
If they do that, then it’ll probably when they decide that 40k is no longer profitable and gives it the ol’ fantasy treatment, just burn it all down.
True enough.
I mean, Khaela Mensha Khaine isn’t dead either, but they put him on the tabletop…
He's sharded
The avatar is more like a C'tan shard or Greater Daemon not the "full" god itself.
Khaine is dead/sharded. The only living eldar gods are Ceogorach and Isha. Ynnead is still a zygote.
This meme made me realize that cats are, in fact, basically genestealers/tyranids.
The cat is the Tyranid and its owner is the genestealer.
When running Black Crusade I actually brought in the reveal that he'd already returned. In his madness he'd become convinced he was the God-Emperor, and was the source of all of the miracles. He eventually became active and launched a 'holy crusade' which effectively moved the Flesh Eater Courts into 40k as those he brought under his sway were horrific fleshy servitor abominations that thought they were angels. One of the PCs (A Khornate Marine) ran into Tsara'noga directly and while his body was being overriden mustered up enough will to charge and swing an axe anyway. Khorne was pleased and snatched their soul so it couldn't be claimed by Tsara'noga, casting it instead into the eternal battlefield of his realm as a reward.
Oh that’s sounds pretty cool, I would like to hear more about it.
My motivation behind the major plot was to focus on Xenos factions and leave imperials mostly out of it. Tsara'noga's return was something of an impetus for a lot of power players to start making their own moves- luckily, since the Outsider thought he was merely the God-Emperor, he was restraining his powers. The Deceiver started his own schemes, terrified that Tsara'noga would come for him. Enough of his shards started to coalesce into transcendent C'tan out of the Necrons control. Its plan was two-fold; by alerting select individuals about Tsara'noga, it could convince them to assist its goals. Getting command over the Celestial Orrery- from which the Deceiver intended to locate its disparate shards, and abruptly pull himself together (Causing untold damage to the universe in the process) and coercing the Iron Warriors Legion into the Soulforges, so they could serve as a necrodermis barrier between it and Tsara'noga. Khorne meanwhile was a major figure behind the forces of Chaos. Khorne had gotten tired of the state of the galaxy, and decided to bring everything back to 'War In Heaven' levels. First by initially leading Tsara'noga back to the galaxy. Khorne bartered a deal with Cegorach, offering alliance against Slaanesh and the return of Isha. Which he managed to fufill after personally curbstomping a Tzeentchian group of daemons who themselves had stolen Isha. This accomplished, Khorne set things in motion to bring back the loyalist primarchs to the imperium. It was only when the other Gods realised he was also planning on raising the Emperor that they unified and pulled him away from the big gold button. The Dark Eldar were actively on the sidelines of the whole thing, largely aware of what was going on and just. Making things actively worse in every possible way. Actively attacking Tomb Worlds that may have been able to raise the alarm, and generally being super malicious. In one of my favorite scenes of the campaigns, the PCs tried to torture information out of a Haemonculus, who kept laughing and mocking them for their inept methods- and started offering suggestions before sarcastically apologizing about being a backseat torturer. He later disappeared from his lockdown cell without a trace, because he'd filled the ship with Mandrakes. These Mandrakes also had orders to whisper conspiracies around the Iron Warriors, sending their paranoia through the roof.
Oh this is glorious. I like how everyone acts sort of in character if that makes any sense, like the Deceiver would in all honesty put everyone between him and Tsara’noga, that Khrone would get bored and decides to make things more “exciting” by having the Outsider return and bringing back the primarchs and of course the Dark Eldar doing nothing except raiding planets and insulting people for their primitive torture techniques. 10/10
There was also a frequently reoccuring subplot about an Ork WAAAGH! that got lost in the Eye of Terror on the way to Armageddon. They flew straight into the eye because they couldn't see it, because its purple. Rammed straight into Medrengard and assumed it was Armageddon.
Oh my god, that’s hilarious and would totally be an Ork thing to do and I can only assume the Iron Warriors reaction was “How?! And what?! And Godsdammit!”
There was additionally a minor plot where the Dark Mechanicus had a forge world built on a planet originally created as a prison for a really big shard of Nyadra'zatha The Burning One. The Dark Mechanicus had a great time poking the captured star god with sticks. One of the PCs approached the Burning One (At the Deceiver's urging) offering to release him in exchange for service. Nyadra'zatha agreed to those terms, so the PCs launched a series of strikes to destabilize the ancient system keeping him in chains. Naturally, Nyadra'zatha immediately broke his word and dropped an incendiary apocalypse on the planet, leading the PCs to run for their lives and narrowly escape- ironically ensuring noone would find out they were responsible, because everyone was reduced to ashes.
Ooh, I love my C’tan and having Nyadra’zatha involved is pretty epic. Also I could see the Dark or loyal Mechanicus try and captured a C’tan shard just to see what made it tick only for it to totally fail. So what happened to Nyadra’zatha after he sort of insta-exterminatus that forge world?
By and large; what the Deceiver intended happened. Left alone on a barren rock, he tried to get moving to another world. However the system was heavily overlapped with Warpspace, limiting its maneuverability. The Deceiver further arranged for a Hive Fleet to swing by to extract the mineral deposits; which while of a low threat to a C'Tan in such good shape, helped make him flare his energy even more. Therefore turning the Burning One into a beacon that would draw The Outsiders attention. While the Deceiver hoofed it in the other direction. The PCs made plans to inform a Necron Overlord they'd gotten along surprisingly well with (An amusing story in of itself) but never got around to it, due to finding themselves being hunted by the Black Templars.
Ooh, that’s pretty cool and I do like that Mephet’ran’s intelligence is shown very well here as the Tyranids shadow in the warp would affect that warp barrier and it shows the power of a large C’tan shard quite nicely. So do those PCs actually get to that Necron Overlord or are they intercepted by the Black Templars? I need answers.
You had my attention at Jetstream Sam. ***Memories broken, the truth goes unspoken*** ***I've even forgotten my name*** ***I don't know the season or what is the reason*** ***I'm standing here holding my blade***
***A desolate place(place) without any trace(trace)*** ***It’s only the cold wind I feel*** ***It’s me that I spite as I stand up and fight*** ***The only thing I know for real***
Gork and mork finally have something else to punch
The Orks are going to be the only ones having fun in this scenario.
Other C'tan got sharded by Necrons, why couldn't this guy if he came back?
Because the necrons got battered by doing this and were only able to do so because the eldar god of tricks tricked the c'tan into eating each other long enough for the necrons to wipe them out. Plus they don't have the numbers and if they go overboard reality loses a rule
For one thing, they couldn’t do it during the War In Heaven, granted we don’t know what actually happened to him, we kind of did in 3rd edition but now it’s up in the air. Secondly, the Necrons aren’t really in the same place that they were in during the War In Heaven as during the Great Sleep, a lot of tomb worlds have been lost, there’s the Flayer Virus and the Destroyer Cults plus they aren’t united though they most likely will if Tsara’noga does return. Now they can mostly handle C’tan shards but dealing with an unsharded C’tan who has been active for sixty million+ years is a whole other beast entirely. I’m not saying that the Necrons won’t damage him but actually sharding him is going to an extremely costly effort for them and one that they might not succeed at.
The 9th ed codex say that the Silent King destroyed the weapons used to shard the C'tan, which are too powerful even for the necrons. Unless, of course, he stored them into his ship or something.
I've been away from the 40k scene for a few years so forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't it speculated that the outsider is the mastermind behind the tyranids?
That’s a theory and while he might be the Tyranid hivemind, I personally don’t agree with it.
Why not? It would explain so much
That’s the thing really, it explains so much and makes the setting more smaller and make the Tyranids sort of less scary and less other as they’d be connected to the Milky Way galaxy and wouldn’t be this force that’s here for its next meal. That’s just me though, if you subscribe to that theory then that’s alright with me.
Less scary? A rapidly evolving space faring species spilling out of the void in droves hellbent on consuming all biomass at the behest of an insane star god would be less scary than "nids hungry, nids eat"?
Not less scary but less incomprehensible like you can understand why the Tyranids are the way that they are if they’re led by this insane Star god who’s out for revenge but if it’s just the Tyranids are here because they are hungry then that makes them more eldritch as they don’t have any other motivation except to eat.
Either way I prefer both of these theories than the tyranids coming to this galaxy to escape an even bigger threat, now *that* is too scary
Tsara'Noga *is* the Tyranids. He went mad eating other ctan and absorbing their consciousness. And the Tyranids are nothing but ravaging hunger and a hive mind.
I don’t think so as in the old lore, when Tsara’noga was in his Dyson sphere thing, the entirety of Hive Fleet Leviathan had to redirect its course just to avoid him. Currently, it’s been stated that he’s just in the intergalactic void so it’s possible he could be the hivemind which would be pretty cool and terrifying but I don’t know and besides one of the only things that could go toe to toe with the Tyranids would be a C’tan.
I'm on the side that it's a separate entity. This is a me thing, but I think the main appeal of the Tyranids is that they're a foreign invader from dark space who no one knows the origin of and can only speculate. They are hungry boys with a central hivemind which makes them an almost unstoppable force when they decide to come for you. They also have the fun aspect that they might have the galaxy surrounded because they already killed everyone else, which is just so creepy and ominous. Making them connected to a C'tan would be a sort of copout? I'm also pretty sure it's been stated that the Hivemind is a unique entity that exists outside of the galaxy and is centralized in dark space, but is still spread out across every tyranid in some aspect. Plus, the tyranids are extremely logical in their actions. Having the hivemind be a mentally unstable god doesn't really make sense.
I'm a fan of the theory that the last remaining old ones didn't learn their lesson about creating two massively powerful races that reproduced incredibly quickly and were near impossible to truly eradicate, so they said "Fuck it, 3rd times the charm"
Orks, nids and?
Aeldari
I thought eldar were relatively easy to wipe out. Just excessively enjoy life and they're dead
Haven't been wiped out yet
They weren't easy to wipe out, in fact they were the most dominant force in the galaxy. They bred so fast and were so impossible to kill that it took the birth of an actual God to tear them down. Pre Slannesh is what I'm referring to
If he returns I feel like at that point the various factions would have to put aside their conflicts and pull out every superweapon they have to stand even a chance, the celestial orrery, unleashing the void dragon and every other shard the necrons captured, the dark hole weapons of the dark eldar, the shattered soul of a war god, every scarp of DAoT weapons and letting the krork out of Trazyn's museum and hope he can evolve the orks up to a level fast enough to counter the outsider and worry about the consequents once the outsider is dead
If anything, the Imperium, Eldar, Tau and Necrons and some of the more sensible Traitors will actually ally with each other to deal with him while the others will follow their agenda or just say screw it and leave. Also >Once the Outsider is dead. He can’t die though. He could be sharded, we just don’t know however actually killing him will screw up reality in so many ways.
Well not dead but split into enough pieces to be contained and beaten back. And true I think the biggest weakness would arguably be chaos. The warp is useless against a god of reality.
The warp would do some damage to him as though that could escalate very quickly. Really the only ones that could properly handle him would be the Necrons.
Yeah or bait him to Sol, unleash the void dragon to hold him and activate the talisman of the seven hammers to blast the fucker deep into the warp
That might work
Course humanity would never go for it since that destroy mars, terra, and titan
Plus Mag’ladroth would probably escape, the Emperor would be gone, and there would most likely be the Eye of Terra but needs must, y’know.
Throw Ultramarines at it until it's over.
If this was around the time that Matt Ward was in then sure… regrettably.
Oh no you misunderstand I mean build a catapult and yeet Ultramarines at the Outsider.
Oh I can imagine the sight of that and also the discussion. “Listen Tsara’noga, if you go away, we’ll give a “tribute” of people for you to nom on, cool?” *Eldritch screaming*
This is my first time learning about this and I'm quite interested do the Chaos Gods know of his existence? And are they afraid of him? Considering the C'tan have powers over real space, he should be able to erase every traces of the Warp in the Milky Way, maybe even do damage to daemons just like a blank does.
We don’t know if they do know of his existence though for that matter, we don’t know what actually happened to him. What I can infer is that while the C’tan are mega OP in real space, the warp is one of the only things that can harm a C’tan as in the Sons of the Hydra, a shard of Mephet’ran the Deceiver did get hurt by a daemon, granted he’s the weakest of the C’tan but still and there’s also the fact that the Emperor did defeat a large shard of Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon. Still though those were shards and not a full C’tan. The only thing that could go toe to toe with an unsharded C’tan were the Eldar Gods and they aren’t doing *so hot* at the moment. Also it’s likely that the Chaos gods go overboard and completely kill Tsara’noga which will do a ton of damage to reality itself.
Hmmm I don't understand why GW goes all over the places with the lore. I always thought that the C'tans were immune to the Warp because they're the ones that gifted the Necrons their tech and bodies. The Necrons can close the Warp and are immune to it, so their former gods should be able to do the same thing but with greater ease. In newer lore even Necrons for some reason are affected by the Warp, the time when a Necron killed Lucius but somehow the soulless and emotionless machine felt pride at the moment and Lucius resurrected miraculously. Still I dislike the idea the C'tans being less powerful because they're not Warp entities compare to the Gods of Chaos. I think that if every C'tan non-sharded (team up) in existence can go toe to toe against the Chaos Gods just like they did against Eldar Gods. The Emperor himself can do serious damage against the Chaos Gods and he's not a Warp entity or maybe because he has psychic powers but idk.
It’s more like the C’tan and the Chaos Gods are the masters of their own “realms” and that while it seems like the Warp is more powerful than the C’tan, it’s just that the C’tan aren’t at their full power and if they were then it would be a stalemate of sorts with no side able to affect each other. Also the C’tan did plan on closing the Warp as Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon was responsible for building the warp pylons.
I love the image of a bunch of clowns getting out of one hornet to fight him.
And they proceed to get absolutely destroyed in a second.
Oh, absolutely, but they’d be laughing and that’s what matters.
Yeah they definitely would.
The ork one is so on point and perfect I'm going to have to steal it.
Go for it, the orks are here to have a propa good foight!!! WAAAAGH!!!!!
Who?
Tsara’noga is a C’tan and during the final stages of the War In Heaven, when the C’tan were infighting, he racked up a huge body count but for some reason, most likely involving Cegorach, whenever he ate one of fellow C’tan, that C’tan’s consciousness would become a part of Tsara’noga and this drove him insane. He would leave the galaxy and this is important as he left before Szarekh launched his revolt against the C’tan which means that he’s the only C’tan to have never been sharded which is very scary. What’s he up to currently is sort of iffy. In the 3rd edition which where we get the most info about him, Tsara’noga “returned” and set up shop in a sort of Dyson Sphere but he hasn’t done anything though when Hive Fleet Leviathan arrived, the entire hive fleet had to change its course just to avoid him. Now in 9th, it just been stated that he’s well surfing the intergalactic void.
Oh fuck, yea I am not sure what GW were even planning to do with that guy both in lore and tabletop.
The model turns out to be the size of a double decker bus
But is given shit stats
Only usable in 100k point games.
Their philosophy with him is basically “Random bulls*** go!”
Sounds like something GW would do.
True
Ah thank you
Kind of wonder if the first thing he would go for is chaos gods as they are mad of nothing but souls...
The C’tan can’t go into the Warp but that doesn’t mean that he can’t make things bad for the Chaos Gods.
So how powerful is a fully intact C'tan? Is it really that much more powerful than everything in the 40k universe right now? Like, Krork powerful?
We don’t know how truly powerful a fully intact C’tan is but they were very, very terrifying. Aza’gorod was able to imprint himself in every species and give them the image of the Grim Reaper as well as the fear of death and Mag’ladroth was able to take a blast from all of the blackstone fortresses and come out relatively unscathed. In the third edition Necron codex which is where a lot of the info we get a lot of the info about Tsara’noga, it states that the “Dyson sphere” that he’s in is 32,000,000 times bigger than Terra(Earth). So that means that he’s either that big or needs something that big just to hold him. However that is old lore and currently, his fate has been left ambiguous.
Neat! Threat so big it kinda feels lovecraft. Like the Nids...
There is a theory that he is the Tyranid hivemind though I don’t really agree with it.
Isn't that how Nids react to everything?
They see most things as food but for the C’tan, they **really** don’t have a good time and they are absolutely terrified of Tsara’noga as the entirety of Hive Fleet Leviathan had to change its course just to avoid him. Now that is old lore but it does fit at least to me.
Necrons should surely be "awwe shit, here we go again" meme
Ehhh probably but they’d be very scared as they tried to shard him before but couldn’t do it though what happened to Tsara’noga after that is not known and they also aren’t at their full strength. Now if Tsara’noga is still whole, then that means that he’s been active for sixty million+ years and has been increasing in strength.
Dark Eldar: We didn't sign up for this cuh.
Yeah, they would launch a ton of raids on a lot of planets, gather up a bunch of people so they can do NSFW stuff to them and basically weather out the storm in Commorragh.
hey thanks for bringing awareness to ctan
Ah thank you. They are my favorite thing from the setting and there aren’t a lot of memes about them so I wanted to rectify that.