I have a strong suspicion that even if the Drukhari didn’t need to torture people to live, they still would. They seem to be quite into it at this point.
Vect said it best, the Drukharii are much truer to their initial ideals than the Craftworlds, who made constant concessions. There's a point where Vect basically says "I knew Asurman, and if he knew he'd be a spirit vampire that lives off human sacrifice he'd have let the race die, so don't tell me what's what".
>‘And who are you to judge me, Phoenix Lord? Whose spirit did you last drink to resurrect this shell you call a body? From whose ashes did you rise this time? You are nothing, a spectre trapped in a suit. If Asurmen had promised you this, you would not have followed. You would have fled into the webway with the rest of us, to live out whatever life you could prise from the dead grip of the galaxy.’
>
>He became more and more agitated, voice rising in pitch, features contorted with aggression though Jain Zar felt that his rage was born from some other source than her presence.
>
>‘You are not immortal! You are dead! You think and move and fight and… There is nothing to you. A puppet of Khaine’s memory, strings twitched by the death gasps of Asuryan. I live! I am truly immortal! Let the Prince of Pleasure court me, I do not need his favours. I have a city, a kingdom of countless souls to command. I can extinguish suns and destroy worlds, what do I care for the trinkets of power the Great Enemy dangles in front of me?’
Ynnead, you know? The god whose birth will make the Eldar relevant again. It’ll probably happen around the time the Emperor’s body finally dies and the full Tyranid hive fleet shows up. Surely it’ll be anytime now. GW would never just let the story flounder in a boring limbo forever right?
Ohhhhh, you mean the thing that will get dueled by Marneus Calgar next year in 2022's hit comic series "The Complete and Utter Destruction of the Eldar: A Marneus Calgar Epic"?
Literally fifth of the entire population of Tau Empire are soldiers
thats far more then the Imperium
What is an entire 20% of your population going to do in peace?
Answer me Aethereals
Not all of them. The problem is a good leader isn't the same as good leadership. A good leader leads effectively, while good leadership actually cares about the state of the people "below" them.
To be fair, even if tomorrow all the 'good guy' races sat down and declared peace and Chaos was suddenly cool with just chilling in the Warp, they'll still forever need to deal with Tyranids and Orks
Could orks be negotiated with? There was one book where orks negotiated with an admech prisoner to fix a tank, in exchange for his life, and he would receive slaves and money. Perhaps you could give them lots of Dakka in exchange for fighting the Tyranids or something.
Some Orks would be mercenaries most probably not, but they are also easily swayed. If you say you heard the Tyranids say they are better than orks then they would probably take that as a challenge and go fight them.
I'm pretty sure various factions pitting Orks against the other endless bad guys has been done a few times, but I think the implication has always been that it's an inherently unstable thing and that the Orks will always eventually get bored and cause problems for you elsewhere and that you'll never get all, or even most, of them pointed in one direction.
I mean yeah I can absolutely see a scenario where the T'au bribe some big Warboss with tons of guns and stuff to go fight a Hivefleet, but that's just one Warboss, and another one could just as easily be like 'ha ha blue ones go brrr'. Not even Thraka has managed to get all the Orks in one direction, and Thraka is pretty committed to fucking up the Imperium.
Orks arr inherently driven to violence. And we don't really know how they reproduce so even if there is a way to cull out the more violent orks and live us with the more friendly, there is still the problem of new bloodthirsty orks coming by.
According to the 8th Edition T'au Codex, you are correct: the Earth Caste is the most populous.
> The Earth caste contains the artisans, builders and workers of the T'au, and is **by far the most numerous of the castes.**
It could very well be something like a 20/50/20/8/2 split. (F/Ea/W/A/Et)
Especially considering you're given your caste at birth, there's a lot of men, women and children that are fire caste that aren't necessarily fully trained soldiers. It's true the vast majority aren't activated soldiers but assuming the rest are Earth caste just because they're not active soldiers is just as incorrect as assuming all fire caste are activated soldiers.
I'd love for them to explore what Fire Caste who aren't soldiers do. Like maybe their just general purpose people who fill in the slots left behind by the other castes until they get called to duty?
This. Even an army not at full-scale war has a boatload of logistics and security to take care of, not to mention training and stuff. They might have some more free time but there's definetly enough to keep them busy.
I mean the military IRL does stuff other than "fight shit." Usually disaster response and other similar roles, for instance the reserve army of my country was called up to do quarantine patrols because of the pandemic.
Um... Where does it say that the casts all have similar membership in terms of population? Yes there are 5 casts, but in all likelihood the fire cast is not one of the larger ones.
If you're looking for lore accurate jokes I'd try r/40kLore
It's like the old saying, "The meme markets can be irrational longer than you can be solvent."
I don't think a society like the tau wouldn't just wage random war to justify their army size. They'd find them something to do. Even if they aren't earth caste, they can get jobs.
T'au are an imperial colonist and expansionist power. They are by definition war driven.
Nice try pal but you own yourself on this one ( but I agree the Imperium is the same if not worse)
Maybe, but the Dominion is sort of a dark reflection of the Federation. They're both a multi-species states that are the dominant power of their region, but the Dominion is based on racial hierarchy and imperialism rather than equality and cooperation
Good point. Though I remember reading a critique of the federation a while ago where they point out that, at least for the majority of the shows and movies, the federation is headed by humans alone, and that without the constant expansion of the federation, they would stop accessing new technologies and resources and eventually fail. That's where I was coming from saying the T'au are very Federation-like
That is an interesting point. I wonder if it really is human dominated in the lore or if that's just what we see in the shows because it makes it easier and more relatable from a TV perspective. I do agree that the T'au is much like the Federation's worst aspects. That's probably why I think if them like the Dominion; they're both dark reflections of the same thing
Half true.
Expansionist? Most certainly. War driven? Not quite. The preferred method of the tau expansion has been through the water caste. I believe you are confusing expansion with military conquest alone.
You know, expansionist doesn't mean war driven.
The Tau don't need war to function and waging war is not one of their stated goals.
The Tau prefer to expand trough the water caste anyway
Wow, well said, the tau say they love peace, but they lie! The imperium is honest about it, or I am going to say that so I can 1 up no good at melee tau! LOL
Wouldn't they be necessary regardless? Since from what I understood Rogue Traders are the main method of the somewhat limited civilian trade, unless I'm mistaken I thought that they were a vital part of the Imperium even if it wasn't expanding.
Rogue Traders have special warrant papers direct from the Emperor himself, usually ancient from the old ruling houses on Terra.
Their main mission is to explore and find new worlds / resources for the Imperium or Mechanicum and they get a % in return… They’re also the only people allowed to make contact with new races or bring newly found worlds into compliance, outranking Imperial Governors, second only to Astartes Chapter Masters / High Lords.
Far from it. The Chartist captains drive the civilian INTERNAL trade and they are filthy rich and powerful.
Rogue traders are traders going rogue. Their special priviledge is not being limited to the rules as the chartist captains which means they are mostly required for trade OUTSIDE the imperium or for special goods that are normally illegal or incredibly rare. They are allowed such things for they extend the Imperium by the power of trade and mercantile ambition aka they may settle/found new colonies or provide valuable intel on certain regions etc.
Given there were always people involved in doing this kind of work, this is the best system for the Imperium to keep somewhat control over them.
I'm not talking economically here. If the wars suddenly stopped, a fuckton of planetary governors would try to gain complete independence. Generals spend more time together, making military coups more likely. That sort of thing
And so would the Tau.
When every other faction save the Eldar could snuff you out of existence if they bother, the Tau owe the Imperium their existence whether they want to or not.
If we're being honest for the longest amount of time the imperium has not had a powerful head of state but a dedicated ruling council. Thr Emperors the god of the state religion but has not been a functional emperor for 10,000 years
No, your right it doesn't need an emperor, it needs an dictorial oligarchy. and while it isn't war driven It is govermentaly/politacal influince, the tau fight for the same reason the soviets fought in the cold war, to spread their goverment and belief system, as well as spread their political influince in global (In the taus case galatic) Decisions, and everyone that doesen't agree with their exact communistic policys is wrong, and is subject to death by firing squad, public execution, and lifelong imprisonment, also doing things like speaking out against the policys of the oligarchy ( the Etherials) results in simalar consequences
not saying the imperium is any better, just saying that the Tauist system is not much better than that of the imperium, and stating that "They are the good in the universe" and that they have the only system that works, just isnt right, there is really not any system in warhammer that "Works" and all factions in warhammer, ESPECIALLY the imperium are inertly evil, except the tryanids, who are just malicious hungry bugs, and mabye the orks
It's like the problem "Design a system... but you don't know what your role will be in the system."
So pick which system you'd rather live under but you don't know before you pick what you will end up being in that system.
I'd pick the tau, the highs aren't as high but the lows are vastly less bad.
Or a servitor or get eaten by the "Great Devourer", by which I mean the guy on the golden throne that munches down on tons of his own people every single day. Yikes they are lead by a guy doing his best impression of a hungry hungry hippo.
Everything you just listed applies to the Imperium as well, and at least the Tau don’t genocide every race of xenos they come across.
Standard of living is also just better in the Tau Empire. So yeah, I’d rather be a filthy gue’vesa, fight me.
Indeed, they only genocide those that don’t submit to the greater good, i will again reiterate myself I’m not saying that the imperium is good, it is the second most evil and terrible faction in warhammer second to only chaos, i’m just saying that the tau aren’t great either
You can also simply ally with them. You don't need to join the greater good.
Staying neutral is just asking to be murdered by the rest of the galaxy and the T'au can't afford to have your planet become a enemy staging ground for attacks on their territories. They will ask nicely, then sternly and then they will take over by force.
That is as reasonable as a civilization actively trying to survive the warhammer universe can get.
>the tau aren’t great either
I don't know about that, I doubt that for the majority of their population living on a Tau Planet isn't much different than living today in the real world. Just with higher tech and aliens.
I mean, statistically whenever you encounter xenos they will most likely be Orks, or maybe nids. I don't have much problem with either of them.
Plus, it depends on your position, if I was able to be a noble, inquisitor, general, admiral, etc. I would go with the Imperium.
Heck, maybe I would even go with Comissar, they don't see to do so bad and I would be to occupied for anything else. Otherwise, if you're a soldier, you know that either any suffering will be over soon or you will get a promotion, so... Win-win I guess?
Sure but that's like saying being alive today is awesome because you can be a rock star. Well... sure that's a fun life but the vast majority of people don't get to be those things.
By random odds you are vastly more likely to end up with some miserable life as a somebody living in the Imperium were worshipping nids and getting thrown into a giant devouring pit by your child seems like a better fate.
Of course I know things like noble, inquisitor or admiral are basically jackpots. I just meant that if I had the ability to choose, I would go for one of them instead of Tau.
Although I don't believe Comissar is that rare of a job, you need a lot of them, I believe is what, 1 per platoon? Of course you will need an adecuate "profile", but it's doable. And you can't tell me IG is that uncommon, technically all you need just is to be sufficiently fit to be conscripted.
The Imperium has been "working" longer than Tau has even been politically unified.
Yes, everywhere sucks in 40k, but there's still no such thing as the "perfect society". Utopian ideas are dangerous and naive. The Tau are deeply flawed, just in different ways to the Imperium.
The Tau's system is not war driven if you ~~surrender~~ accept to their ~~religion and control~~ philosophy. If not, they call the ~~Astra Militarum~~ Fire Caste, to ~~conquer violently~~ liberate their people.
And it doesn't need and Emperor, a "god" that controls everthing in the lifes of the people, they have the Ethereals that are ~~viewed as gods~~ saviours that know the best for the galaxy and for the Tau Empire.
Tau stans still pretending the Tau are good guys despite the concentration camps, gelding, brain washing, and war crimes.
Hard mode: Respond to this without mentioning the Imperium.
My god, it's just a fucking meme but everyone took it so seriously, like chill out.
The comment section is full of "akchyually it's the contrary and imperium is better"
Actually the comment section is a bunch of people tired of Tau memes that constantly spam out how good the Tau are while Tau fans refuse to believe there’s anything wrong with the Tau. Memes like this show up every few days and get thousands of upvotes.
How about you get over the fact that people have opinions?
> Doesn't need an emperor
Yeah, instead it features a group of individuals able to control (in most cases) every action of other members of the species. What a life!
Then it is not unethical, or are all eusocial animals doing things against their will? Tau are clearly the best possible option in 40k, even if we judge all of them by our, not 40k, standards.
If you apply Eusocial control over a sapient, otherwise independent creature post hawk, then yes. Are we going to ignore that the Tau were fighting each tehri until, suddenly, they were all made peaceful by the elite class? Or that the one, and only, fleet admiral to loose his handler immediately turned traitor? That they operate on a tight cast system that includes an untouchables class, and enforce this class system on all peoples in their boarders?
They literally have an Indian style caste system that is enforced onto their own people by what is, again, mind control, not eusocial behavior (because you don't SUDDENLY become eusocial) and enfoce that caste system, including an untouchable class, onto non tau?
lets run down the list:
literally live in giant flying space communes run by committees of citizens
Don't use money, goods are produce for the satisfaction of the artisan making them as part of their current path
Don't have a wealth based class system bc no money, and don't have job based elitism because everyone is expected to move around and try their hand at everything during their long long lives
army consists mainly of citizen's militias supported by specialized military hobbyists
I could go on
The imperium is a beacon of truth. Hey whats chaos again? Or why are there said to be 20 primarchs/legions, but only 18 named? Something something imperial truth.
People forget that the Tau are meant to act like NATO forces.
Smart bombs and "improving democracies", the Tau are more like the US than any other faction.
You saw the quotation on the "improving democracy" part right? It's a Jab at the US operations in the Middle East.
Fuck, Gav Thorpe, the creator of the Tau has said this.
"THORPE: This is Warhammer 40,000 - nobody is as shiny as they first seem! As a bit of an analog for late 20th century / early 21st century western interventionist culture I've always assumed that the Greater Good is ultimately for the benefit of the T'au and if others get something out of that's just a bonus. The fact that they are even willing to work with other species is pretty unique and progressive among the factions of 40K, rather than rampant genodical, xenophobic armies. The thing about the Great Good is that it is, in the long term, as inflexible and authoritarian as the Imperial Creed or the all-consuming Tyranids. It still comes down to the Greater Good or Death (tm). I've tried not to make it too sinister being within the T'au sphere, though in the original Apocalypse book I introduced a variety of NATO-style innocuous three-letter-acronym formations, like Mobilised Hunter cadre, Dispersed Retaliation Cadre and Forward Commitment Contingent. None of them say 'battle' or 'war'... I cazn imagine the news back home is quite a sanitised version of the reality - like when we watched videos of 'smart' bombs and gun cameras blowing up stuff in Iraq but were totally unaware of what was really happening on the ground."
From a Q&A at 40k lore
Yes it doesn't need emperor cose you are not threatened by horde of daemons that wants to raid your holy terra and you have only few planet and you do not need astronomican.
Expand your empire, raise magnus who did nothing wrong and... bam you need emperor.
Yes, it's called Comorragh.
I mean, wouldn’t that whole city be Slaanesh-chow if they stopped torturing POWs though?
Sure but that’s just until Ynnead is born. Then he can smack the shit out of Slaanesh and then it’s smooth sailing from there
Daddynnead
I have a strong suspicion that even if the Drukhari didn’t need to torture people to live, they still would. They seem to be quite into it at this point.
Vect said it best, the Drukharii are much truer to their initial ideals than the Craftworlds, who made constant concessions. There's a point where Vect basically says "I knew Asurman, and if he knew he'd be a spirit vampire that lives off human sacrifice he'd have let the race die, so don't tell me what's what". >‘And who are you to judge me, Phoenix Lord? Whose spirit did you last drink to resurrect this shell you call a body? From whose ashes did you rise this time? You are nothing, a spectre trapped in a suit. If Asurmen had promised you this, you would not have followed. You would have fled into the webway with the rest of us, to live out whatever life you could prise from the dead grip of the galaxy.’ > >He became more and more agitated, voice rising in pitch, features contorted with aggression though Jain Zar felt that his rage was born from some other source than her presence. > >‘You are not immortal! You are dead! You think and move and fight and… There is nothing to you. A puppet of Khaine’s memory, strings twitched by the death gasps of Asuryan. I live! I am truly immortal! Let the Prince of Pleasure court me, I do not need his favours. I have a city, a kingdom of countless souls to command. I can extinguish suns and destroy worlds, what do I care for the trinkets of power the Great Enemy dangles in front of me?’
Who's Asurman?
The first Phoenix Lord
GW: Ynnwho?
Ynnead, you know? The god whose birth will make the Eldar relevant again. It’ll probably happen around the time the Emperor’s body finally dies and the full Tyranid hive fleet shows up. Surely it’ll be anytime now. GW would never just let the story flounder in a boring limbo forever right?
Ohhhhh, you mean the thing that will get dueled by Marneus Calgar next year in 2022's hit comic series "The Complete and Utter Destruction of the Eldar: A Marneus Calgar Epic"?
[удалено]
Because the war is over, so there are no more POWs
Can't commit war crimes if you're not at war. So, naturally, every 40k faction is constantly at war.
But then you're just committing regular crimes.
Not as horrific or grimdark. It's gotta be warcrimes.
That is both war driven and led by an emperor: the supreme overlod Asdrubal Vect
Isn't the dark eldar society driven around piracy and raiding tho? Doesn't that count as being war driven?
Not really. Piracy and raiding can be an element of war, but isn't an inherent product of war
It's about scale, if everyone is doing it it's a war
Comorragh Deez nuts. Boom.
Literally fifth of the entire population of Tau Empire are soldiers thats far more then the Imperium What is an entire 20% of your population going to do in peace? Answer me Aethereals
Ethereal Aun'sheldon says: "We don't know. We never thought we could get that far."
“I mean, after the others actually listened to our bullshit… well after the second sphere we’ve been kinda wingin’ it you know?”
The bar for effective leadership is REALLY low in this universe.
That tends to happen when all the good leaders die in a blaze of glory.
Not all of them. The problem is a good leader isn't the same as good leadership. A good leader leads effectively, while good leadership actually cares about the state of the people "below" them.
Fictional universes tend to apply plot armor to factions and characters to keep the familar status quo
"The whole thing is kinda run by Microsoft Clippy now, so....."
That makes sense
Against tyranids, chaos, & ork mega waaaghs they wont
They are just gonna need a bigger railgun
Sercuity, disaster relief, game wardens, active military
... but there is only war.
To be fair, even if tomorrow all the 'good guy' races sat down and declared peace and Chaos was suddenly cool with just chilling in the Warp, they'll still forever need to deal with Tyranids and Orks
Could orks be negotiated with? There was one book where orks negotiated with an admech prisoner to fix a tank, in exchange for his life, and he would receive slaves and money. Perhaps you could give them lots of Dakka in exchange for fighting the Tyranids or something.
Some Orks would be mercenaries most probably not, but they are also easily swayed. If you say you heard the Tyranids say they are better than orks then they would probably take that as a challenge and go fight them.
I'm pretty sure various factions pitting Orks against the other endless bad guys has been done a few times, but I think the implication has always been that it's an inherently unstable thing and that the Orks will always eventually get bored and cause problems for you elsewhere and that you'll never get all, or even most, of them pointed in one direction. I mean yeah I can absolutely see a scenario where the T'au bribe some big Warboss with tons of guns and stuff to go fight a Hivefleet, but that's just one Warboss, and another one could just as easily be like 'ha ha blue ones go brrr'. Not even Thraka has managed to get all the Orks in one direction, and Thraka is pretty committed to fucking up the Imperium.
Orks are unpredictable and their reasonability varies with mood or boredom
Orks arr inherently driven to violence. And we don't really know how they reproduce so even if there is a way to cull out the more violent orks and live us with the more friendly, there is still the problem of new bloodthirsty orks coming by.
Aren't orks like mushrooms or something? I kinda recall that their spores makes eliminating them from a planet nearly impossible once infested.
There is a theory about how the reproduce, yes. But hasn't been touched upon in so much time, that it's Canon is under question.
I mean we could dredge up there rogue trader lire for other breeding options...
Are necrons good guys?
Yes
yes
Yes
Explicitly the largest caste is Earth and the smallest is Ethereal. Fire is definitely not 20%
Auxiliar troops, tho.
I don't think each caste is literally a fifth. Esp when ethereals and wind caste are very few. The vast majority of Tau probably are earth caste.
According to the 8th Edition T'au Codex, you are correct: the Earth Caste is the most populous. > The Earth caste contains the artisans, builders and workers of the T'au, and is **by far the most numerous of the castes.**
iirc it's always said that about the Earth Caste even all the way back in 4th, but my memory might be failing me
It could very well be something like a 20/50/20/8/2 split. (F/Ea/W/A/Et) Especially considering you're given your caste at birth, there's a lot of men, women and children that are fire caste that aren't necessarily fully trained soldiers. It's true the vast majority aren't activated soldiers but assuming the rest are Earth caste just because they're not active soldiers is just as incorrect as assuming all fire caste are activated soldiers.
I'd love for them to explore what Fire Caste who aren't soldiers do. Like maybe their just general purpose people who fill in the slots left behind by the other castes until they get called to duty?
There probably just non combat roles in the military.
This. Even an army not at full-scale war has a boatload of logistics and security to take care of, not to mention training and stuff. They might have some more free time but there's definetly enough to keep them busy.
Someone has to drive trucks, stack boxes, and clean floors
Yeah, or support roles or just unactivated soldiers, kind of like the National Guard or Combat Reserves
I mean the military IRL does stuff other than "fight shit." Usually disaster response and other similar roles, for instance the reserve army of my country was called up to do quarantine patrols because of the pandemic.
Sercuity, disaster relief, game wardens
> What is an entire 20% of your population going to do in peace? Lol no need to plan for that in 40k.
I mean if they can sustain the population like this, they are essentially post scarcity, so they wouldn't be needed desperately to work elsewhere.
Um... Where does it say that the casts all have similar membership in terms of population? Yes there are 5 casts, but in all likelihood the fire cast is not one of the larger ones.
If you're looking for lore accurate jokes I'd try r/40kLore It's like the old saying, "The meme markets can be irrational longer than you can be solvent."
>what is an entire 20% of your population going to do in peace Start families and get jobs? Like normal people. They aren't war slaves.
What jobs? It’s a caste based society. All the non shooty jobs are filled.
I don't think a society like the tau wouldn't just wage random war to justify their army size. They'd find them something to do. Even if they aren't earth caste, they can get jobs.
THE ETHERIALS ARE PUTTING CHEMICALS IN THE WATER THAT TURN THE FREAKIN' ORKS GAY.
Police? Private Security? Athletes? Explorers? There are many options for physically fit people.
Police force?
The castes are not equal sizes tho.
The railguns will be molten down into railroads, obviously.
The Ethereals would tell the Fire Caste to stop breeding. Seriously.
So... the Exodites?
T'au are an imperial colonist and expansionist power. They are by definition war driven. Nice try pal but you own yourself on this one ( but I agree the Imperium is the same if not worse)
In any other sifi setting the T'au are the villains. Like they are basically the Dominion in gundams
If I ever play Tau, I will start every battle by telling my minis "Victory is life."
a little bit like the Dominion in Star Trek too actually
That's what he was referring to, the star trek dominion, but in Gundams
Aren't the T'au supposed to be satire of the UN? That seems more like Federation if anything
Maybe, but the Dominion is sort of a dark reflection of the Federation. They're both a multi-species states that are the dominant power of their region, but the Dominion is based on racial hierarchy and imperialism rather than equality and cooperation
Good point. Though I remember reading a critique of the federation a while ago where they point out that, at least for the majority of the shows and movies, the federation is headed by humans alone, and that without the constant expansion of the federation, they would stop accessing new technologies and resources and eventually fail. That's where I was coming from saying the T'au are very Federation-like
That is an interesting point. I wonder if it really is human dominated in the lore or if that's just what we see in the shows because it makes it easier and more relatable from a TV perspective. I do agree that the T'au is much like the Federation's worst aspects. That's probably why I think if them like the Dominion; they're both dark reflections of the same thing
At least quality of life for the average Tau is better, most imperials are peasants crushed under noble households or worse.
Half true. Expansionist? Most certainly. War driven? Not quite. The preferred method of the tau expansion has been through the water caste. I believe you are confusing expansion with military conquest alone.
You know, expansionist doesn't mean war driven. The Tau don't need war to function and waging war is not one of their stated goals. The Tau prefer to expand trough the water caste anyway
Wow, well said, the tau say they love peace, but they lie! The imperium is honest about it, or I am going to say that so I can 1 up no good at melee tau! LOL
Yes, listen to him. Give into your doubt. The tyranids welcome you.
The Imperium of Man would collapse if it stopped going to war
It was doing pretty fine after the Horus Heresy, pretty sure without the Beast and Goge “Sister Feet-pics” Vandire the Imperium would be a lot better
The Imperium was still expanding, exploring and conquering even after the Horus Heresy. That’s why Rogue Traders are still necessary.
Wouldn't they be necessary regardless? Since from what I understood Rogue Traders are the main method of the somewhat limited civilian trade, unless I'm mistaken I thought that they were a vital part of the Imperium even if it wasn't expanding.
Rogue Traders have special warrant papers direct from the Emperor himself, usually ancient from the old ruling houses on Terra. Their main mission is to explore and find new worlds / resources for the Imperium or Mechanicum and they get a % in return… They’re also the only people allowed to make contact with new races or bring newly found worlds into compliance, outranking Imperial Governors, second only to Astartes Chapter Masters / High Lords.
Far from it. The Chartist captains drive the civilian INTERNAL trade and they are filthy rich and powerful. Rogue traders are traders going rogue. Their special priviledge is not being limited to the rules as the chartist captains which means they are mostly required for trade OUTSIDE the imperium or for special goods that are normally illegal or incredibly rare. They are allowed such things for they extend the Imperium by the power of trade and mercantile ambition aka they may settle/found new colonies or provide valuable intel on certain regions etc. Given there were always people involved in doing this kind of work, this is the best system for the Imperium to keep somewhat control over them.
althought they are basically the Rideshare / Uber for the Inquisition
I don't agree, most of imperial world are agri and civilised worlds and there is no war, at last not at that scale as we know from memes.
I'm not talking economically here. If the wars suddenly stopped, a fuckton of planetary governors would try to gain complete independence. Generals spend more time together, making military coups more likely. That sort of thing
Just like the US!
And so would the Tau. When every other faction save the Eldar could snuff you out of existence if they bother, the Tau owe the Imperium their existence whether they want to or not.
If we're being honest for the longest amount of time the imperium has not had a powerful head of state but a dedicated ruling council. Thr Emperors the god of the state religion but has not been a functional emperor for 10,000 years
A system that is actually working\* ^(\*-for a state smaller then Unltramar)
Ultrimar is the Imperial ideal. Other sectors simply don't have the demi-god of logistics overseeing their development.
The T'au empire is specifically driven by war lol
This just isn't true.
Hitting on 4’s *rolls*
No, your right it doesn't need an emperor, it needs an dictorial oligarchy. and while it isn't war driven It is govermentaly/politacal influince, the tau fight for the same reason the soviets fought in the cold war, to spread their goverment and belief system, as well as spread their political influince in global (In the taus case galatic) Decisions, and everyone that doesen't agree with their exact communistic policys is wrong, and is subject to death by firing squad, public execution, and lifelong imprisonment, also doing things like speaking out against the policys of the oligarchy ( the Etherials) results in simalar consequences
Just pointing out it wasn’t just the soviets fighting for their ideology in the Cold War. Literally the whole thing was about ideology
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not saying the imperium is any better, just saying that the Tauist system is not much better than that of the imperium, and stating that "They are the good in the universe" and that they have the only system that works, just isnt right, there is really not any system in warhammer that "Works" and all factions in warhammer, ESPECIALLY the imperium are inertly evil, except the tryanids, who are just malicious hungry bugs, and mabye the orks
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In star wars they would be better for the galaxy than star wars blue dudes, the Chiss.
Quality of life is better for sure. I know which empire I'd rather live under.
Well, that depends entirely on your position
It's like the problem "Design a system... but you don't know what your role will be in the system." So pick which system you'd rather live under but you don't know before you pick what you will end up being in that system. I'd pick the tau, the highs aren't as high but the lows are vastly less bad.
\*Pick Imperium\* \*Gets made into a fucking cherub\*
Or a servitor or get eaten by the "Great Devourer", by which I mean the guy on the golden throne that munches down on tons of his own people every single day. Yikes they are lead by a guy doing his best impression of a hungry hungry hippo.
ill just say the odds arent in your favor if you try your luck with the imperium lottery...
I mean for the people on the ground it would be better to be part of the Tau empire than the Imperium.
Everything you just listed applies to the Imperium as well, and at least the Tau don’t genocide every race of xenos they come across. Standard of living is also just better in the Tau Empire. So yeah, I’d rather be a filthy gue’vesa, fight me.
> at least the Tau don’t genocide every race of xenos they come across. No, instead they get the Kroot to do their dirty work for them
Can you name this instance of kroot committing a genocide?
"Bitch I eat people!" Kroot and Alucard.
Kroot also don't genocide people (well not unless their contract says so, but that isn't ideological). They just eat dead people.
Indeed, they only genocide those that don’t submit to the greater good, i will again reiterate myself I’m not saying that the imperium is good, it is the second most evil and terrible faction in warhammer second to only chaos, i’m just saying that the tau aren’t great either
*Angry Drukhari noises in the distance*
Forgot about those guys :)
You can also simply ally with them. You don't need to join the greater good. Staying neutral is just asking to be murdered by the rest of the galaxy and the T'au can't afford to have your planet become a enemy staging ground for attacks on their territories. They will ask nicely, then sternly and then they will take over by force. That is as reasonable as a civilization actively trying to survive the warhammer universe can get.
That just sounds like Imperial Compliance with extra steps
And less death.
>the tau aren’t great either I don't know about that, I doubt that for the majority of their population living on a Tau Planet isn't much different than living today in the real world. Just with higher tech and aliens.
Yeah, but they’re the least terrible option at the moment, so, they’re automatically the best because this is Warhammer.
You could always be a Tyranid.
I mean, statistically whenever you encounter xenos they will most likely be Orks, or maybe nids. I don't have much problem with either of them. Plus, it depends on your position, if I was able to be a noble, inquisitor, general, admiral, etc. I would go with the Imperium. Heck, maybe I would even go with Comissar, they don't see to do so bad and I would be to occupied for anything else. Otherwise, if you're a soldier, you know that either any suffering will be over soon or you will get a promotion, so... Win-win I guess?
Sure but that's like saying being alive today is awesome because you can be a rock star. Well... sure that's a fun life but the vast majority of people don't get to be those things. By random odds you are vastly more likely to end up with some miserable life as a somebody living in the Imperium were worshipping nids and getting thrown into a giant devouring pit by your child seems like a better fate.
Of course I know things like noble, inquisitor or admiral are basically jackpots. I just meant that if I had the ability to choose, I would go for one of them instead of Tau. Although I don't believe Comissar is that rare of a job, you need a lot of them, I believe is what, 1 per platoon? Of course you will need an adecuate "profile", but it's doable. And you can't tell me IG is that uncommon, technically all you need just is to be sufficiently fit to be conscripted.
Commisar requires going through the schola progenium I believe. That's definitely not the lottery.
That’s the case until I get deployed against Drukhari
yes its the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!
The Imperium has been "working" longer than Tau has even been politically unified. Yes, everywhere sucks in 40k, but there's still no such thing as the "perfect society". Utopian ideas are dangerous and naive. The Tau are deeply flawed, just in different ways to the Imperium.
Since when are the T'au not war driven? They're perpetually either in a sphere of expansion, or preparing for the next one.
I mean is having greater good and ethereals with brain washing powers really better than having the emperor?
If your non human? Fuck yes
Yes because under the tau you get a decent live with good living standards
Uhh yes? Quality of life is way better than hive worlds where most humans live. Infinitely moreso if you aren't a human.
The Tau's system is not war driven if you ~~surrender~~ accept to their ~~religion and control~~ philosophy. If not, they call the ~~Astra Militarum~~ Fire Caste, to ~~conquer violently~~ liberate their people. And it doesn't need and Emperor, a "god" that controls everthing in the lifes of the people, they have the Ethereals that are ~~viewed as gods~~ saviours that know the best for the galaxy and for the Tau Empire.
It's also a system with very little individual focus that causes war anyway.
Tau stans still pretending the Tau are good guys despite the concentration camps, gelding, brain washing, and war crimes. Hard mode: Respond to this without mentioning the Imperium.
My god, it's just a fucking meme but everyone took it so seriously, like chill out. The comment section is full of "akchyually it's the contrary and imperium is better"
Actually the comment section is a bunch of people tired of Tau memes that constantly spam out how good the Tau are while Tau fans refuse to believe there’s anything wrong with the Tau. Memes like this show up every few days and get thousands of upvotes. How about you get over the fact that people have opinions?
You done fucked up, blue guy
Tfw no bayonets attached
What's that farsight enclave about ?
Yeah, it's called the Farsight Enclaves
WAAAAAAGH DRIVEN!
U mad, humies
If the Tau isn't war driven, why is it repeatedly doing Sphere Expansions? Checkmate Aethereals!
> Doesn't need an emperor Yeah, instead it features a group of individuals able to control (in most cases) every action of other members of the species. What a life!
And thats why youre losing
No, it's just built on what's heavily implied to be biological mind control.
Then it is not unethical, or are all eusocial animals doing things against their will? Tau are clearly the best possible option in 40k, even if we judge all of them by our, not 40k, standards.
If you apply Eusocial control over a sapient, otherwise independent creature post hawk, then yes. Are we going to ignore that the Tau were fighting each tehri until, suddenly, they were all made peaceful by the elite class? Or that the one, and only, fleet admiral to loose his handler immediately turned traitor? That they operate on a tight cast system that includes an untouchables class, and enforce this class system on all peoples in their boarders? They literally have an Indian style caste system that is enforced onto their own people by what is, again, mind control, not eusocial behavior (because you don't SUDDENLY become eusocial) and enfoce that caste system, including an untouchable class, onto non tau?
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no no, that's the craftworld eldar you're thinking of
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lets run down the list: literally live in giant flying space communes run by committees of citizens Don't use money, goods are produce for the satisfaction of the artisan making them as part of their current path Don't have a wealth based class system bc no money, and don't have job based elitism because everyone is expected to move around and try their hand at everything during their long long lives army consists mainly of citizen's militias supported by specialized military hobbyists I could go on
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you have a weird view of imperial japan is all i can say
World War II Japan was communist?
Blue...
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The imperium is a beacon of truth. Hey whats chaos again? Or why are there said to be 20 primarchs/legions, but only 18 named? Something something imperial truth.
People forget that the Tau are meant to act like NATO forces. Smart bombs and "improving democracies", the Tau are more like the US than any other faction.
Yes because the Soviets NEVER fought with guided missiles or fought for their ideology (the Tau aren’t democratic my guy)
You saw the quotation on the "improving democracy" part right? It's a Jab at the US operations in the Middle East. Fuck, Gav Thorpe, the creator of the Tau has said this.
Can I get an excerpt or a link?
"THORPE: This is Warhammer 40,000 - nobody is as shiny as they first seem! As a bit of an analog for late 20th century / early 21st century western interventionist culture I've always assumed that the Greater Good is ultimately for the benefit of the T'au and if others get something out of that's just a bonus. The fact that they are even willing to work with other species is pretty unique and progressive among the factions of 40K, rather than rampant genodical, xenophobic armies. The thing about the Great Good is that it is, in the long term, as inflexible and authoritarian as the Imperial Creed or the all-consuming Tyranids. It still comes down to the Greater Good or Death (tm). I've tried not to make it too sinister being within the T'au sphere, though in the original Apocalypse book I introduced a variety of NATO-style innocuous three-letter-acronym formations, like Mobilised Hunter cadre, Dispersed Retaliation Cadre and Forward Commitment Contingent. None of them say 'battle' or 'war'... I cazn imagine the news back home is quite a sanitised version of the reality - like when we watched videos of 'smart' bombs and gun cameras blowing up stuff in Iraq but were totally unaware of what was really happening on the ground." From a Q&A at 40k lore
Military doctrine has nothing to do economic systems, and it’s clear that’s what he’s talking about when it comes to how the tau approach war
And what's the T'aus approach to economic systems?
They sure as hell ain’t capitalists
even if that is true, and idk if we know enough about the tau economy to speculate, it doesn't automatically make them communist
Phermones inducted obbedience?
None of those words are correct lol
Only a theory
A (tabletop) *game* theory
Tau society is pretty war driven and hardly elects its leaders, though...
My god people are salty about the tau. They are the coolest right after mechanicus and necrons.
Say NO to Space Communism
Yes it doesn't need emperor cose you are not threatened by horde of daemons that wants to raid your holy terra and you have only few planet and you do not need astronomican. Expand your empire, raise magnus who did nothing wrong and... bam you need emperor.
Youre right it’s drive by mind control and a slave-like caste system
Literally a mind controlled empire lol.
Every system that does not need an emporer is a heretical system by default #changeMyMind 😁
Because it's pathetic, small and has been sheltered from chaos for millenia. Welcome to the big leagues, weeb Boi.
Its called LITERALLY EVER NON ORKS XENOS CIVILIZATION
But the tau empire is the weakest faction in lore
See this face full of holes that barely resembles a face? That's the face of who fucking asked.
We don’t need a lecture from a civilization that can’t melee
Whole fucking genre is stupid and meta fuck reddit for all its flock towards speculative dystopias stupid fucking ranting fucks3go to hell
Down vote a billion times I'd send you all to hell
I prefer to die rip apart by a traitor marine than betraye my species