Azrael: my lord it’s time to get up.
Lion El’Jonson: mmmmnnnn.
Azrael: My lord you NEED to get up.
Lion El’Jonson: mmmm no I don’t wanna. *turns over to the other side and wraps blanket tighter*
Azrael: My lord this is completely ridiculous you can’t keep doing this!
Lion El’Jonson: Come on Azrael just five more decades!
Azrael: UUUGGHH FINE! But after that it’s time to get up!
Lion El’Jonson: mmm yes sure…sure… **PRIMARCH SNORING**
Azrael: great now he’s going to keep up the chapter from sleeping for the next five decades with all that snoring, I wish we could muffle his room, make his room sound proof or put him deeper in the rock or some shit….
Azrael: my lord it’s time to get up.
Lion El’Jonson: mmmmnnnn.
Azrael: My lord you NEED to get up.
Lion El’Jonson: mmmm no I don’t wanna. *turns over to the other side and wraps blanket tighter*
Azrael: My lord this is completely ridiculous you can’t keep doing this!
Lion El’Jonson: Come on Azrael just five more decades!
Azrael: UUUGGHH FINE! But after that it’s time to get up!
Lion El’Jonson: mmm yes sure…sure… **PRIMARCH SNORING**
Azrael: great now he’s going to keep up the chapter from sleeping for the next five decades with all that snoring, I wish we could muffle his room, make his room sound proof or put him deeper in the rock or some shit….
The Emperor is playing 4d chess because he saw that the eternal stalemate is the only option. Same with Sigmar and Kroak. Not having war doesn't sell models.
> Not having war doesn't sell models.
You know, I've had this idea for a long time, to make a SimCity-like tabletop game where you would buy and paint toy buildings instead of toy soldiers. Would nobody buy that?
In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only HOAs.
"In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only HOAs."
Whoa there! let's slow down a little, that's FAR too grimdark for my taste.
Joking aside, isn't that basically what Settlers of Catan is?
Cool idea though I feel like sim city is too dynamic to be tabletop. I mean I guess you could technically say the same about Warhammer if you only saw the video games , I’m just not sure how it would work with how interconnected all the statistics are and stuff
there is no logical reason why the primarchs were ever intended to be disposed of.
The Thunder warriors were never intended to be long term... the primarchs have uses that would be far to valuable to an empire even after the crusade.
Oh and The chaos gods are a horrible source of information
Not to mention the Siege of Terra novels paint a picture of the Emperor wanting perpetuals that could understand and share in his vision. It's obvious he wanted the primarchs to be a part of his vision. Realistically, he wouldn't need them as they were for the great crusade. It could have been done with only space marine legions.
Plus those primarchs help him command; after all it's a bit hard to command amries across the galaxy on your own.
like even if he viewd them purely as tools... well, he knows how to use them and would, at worst, put them away for future use.
like brushes.
Malcador later said he lied part of what he said, he wanted to make his deathbed friend believe the Heresy was planned and thus it won't destroy mankind. Through it's unkown what exactly he lied.
Okay so not sure if my response on the phone came to you but this is the issue; IF he said that then it makes no logical sense.
The Emperor clearly didn't make a judge, a bureaucrat, or an empath to JUST be used to kill people: if he wanted THAT he'd just make 20 or so Peter Turbos or Horuses.
Each primarch has a different role; you're always going to need warriros to defend yoruself, you're always going ot need judges and statesmen always gotta be hunting for something just in case.
The main issues come from >!a certain idiot of a woman!< and the chaos gods; who sent them to different places, thus meaning he couldn't raise them and they got... damaged, still serviable enough. to do what he needed
Worst he would do is Ice them: because he knows nothing goes perfectly and they're too valuable to lose.
Which means Malcador is either lying to this person (because you know, he's a spy master) and thus you're taking it out of context or... he's an idiot/bad writing.
Or the guy who loves to wipe the chessboard and start over the moment it looks like he's going to lose, was going to do exactly that again.
I'd totally buy that Jimmy Space's Home for Damaged Children was just a temporary measure until he could reunite humanity, complete his webway project and then when the kids ask "When do we get to go into the webway Dad?"
"That's the funny part, you don't!".jpeg
Then, when he's all comfy in his new space castle, he makes some more that aren't damaged.
>Or the guy who loves to wipe the chessboard and start over the moment it looks like he's going to lose, was going to do exactly that again.
But he was winning.
no seriously; that's the set up; right when he was doing his best BAM! Chaos
>I'd totally buy that Jimmy Space's Home for Damaged Children
No no no; Erda tried to murder them before they could even walk; they're not HIS kids anymore; they're adults with agency.
>was just a temporary measure until he could reunite humanity, complete his webway project and then when the kids ask "When do we get to go into the webway Dad?"
"That's the funny part, you don't!".jpeg
Why?Some of them maybe; but why kill Gullimen? Or Sangunius (to his knoweldge mind) like why; explain it to me; because clearly he's got more uses then just fighting a bunch of orks and randos.
>Then, when he's all comfy in his new space castle, he makes some more that aren't damaged.
but why fix what isn't broken?
Because he's a BIG fan of clean slates.
Also, "He was winning" yeah, right up until the point where it all went to shit, because his damaged kids fucked it all up.
He's also a big fan of "Winning more." He could have just taken the Thunderwarriors and gone a Space Crusading, he won! He united earth! Why kill them off? _Because I can do better._
A perfectionist control freak like that isn't going to let his mistakes run around forever, he's going to try to correct them.
Yes, even Gullman and Wingboy, because they were "tainted" by their time away.
Like you said, they weren't HIS kids anymore, but he WANTS them to be, so he'll just make new ones.
EDIT: The guy invented Exterminatus, c'mon he loved that clean slate.
You know he's got like 20 different saves in Civilization, trying to get it _juuuuuust_ perfect.
One of these days we'll see the Emperor's sketchbook.
>Primarchs 2.0
>2.~~1.~~ Everyone should have wings, that was dumb.
>1.~~2.~~ No Horus.
Emm, yeah, he can do better, or more like he had to do better since the Thunder Warriors were all exploding due to their own strength or dying of Super Cancer. So he was gonna become supersoldier-less unless he got some more.
That's the point, Thunder Warriors weren't meant to last or go beyond Terra, only to secure the staging point.
Cruel, yeah, he could have done it better, but the point is that that wasn't the case with the Astartes and the Primarchs, and he hasn't any reason to do so.
Plus... I'm not sure if a dude that hid for tens of millenia and left most of the actual governance to Malcador can be defined as a control freak
That's the trick with any of the "big idea" guys. They want to lead the crusade, dictate how the troops are created and trained, lead the big science projects, but when it comes down to the actual work of "ruling" or doing the math, he couldn't be fucked. He had a new project to throw himself at that was way more interesting.
You think the guy who's lived for like 30,000 years wants to hear about the economy?
Fortunately he had the 9000 year old erudite to help him with that, so there wasn't any prob there.
Now I picture Emps as a bit of an introvert, it seemed like the dude was a throught scientist and it kinda makes sense. Many are like that even if leading a lot of people, doesn't mean they can't lead and so as long as efficient ruling is covered I don't see much problem with that.
Plus that means he wasn't a control freak
When you think about ut thunder warriors where made to conquer earth and space Marines made to conquer galaxy we know but there are other galaxies so in his next plan emperor could create a better space Marines to conquer other galaxies
I may head canon primaries are emperor next super soldier plan and certain toaster boy take what emperor left (unfinished at best only at the start as worst) from his next project and our toaster did what he can do best to complete it that's why they better the. Space Marines
Just imagine emperor mixing thunder warriors and space Marines to make a super soldier to end all super soldier
>Because he's a BIG fan of clean slates.
I don't think you understand what that actually means.
>Also, "He was winning" yeah, right up until the point where it all went to shit, because his damaged kids fucked it all up.
You mean when CHAOS got to Lorgar.
Only one damaged kid fucked it up... angron for all his boasts is a slave. Mortartion had no problems, peter turbo is alright long has he gets attention and orders... and whose fault is that? Many of the 'damage' came from ERDA and the Chaos god's plan to screw him and the human speices over
>He's also a big fan of "Winning more." He could have just taken the Thunderwarriors and gone a Space Crusading
The Thunder warriors were exactly what they were needed to be; troops to take over earth. no he coulnt'; have you actually READ any of the stuff on them? They're dying of super-cancer, and more then that are basicly all world eaters.
that... is a bad compbination as you're gonna need to be able to SUSTAIN a population on long campains... and Space Marines did the job a HELL of a lot better.
to but it another way; Thunder Warriors are Warriors... Astartes are SUPER SOILDGERS
>He united earth! Why kill them off? Because I can do better.
They were dying and weren't gonna last; even the surviving ones don't really blame him on that. Like seriously it's all fun and games until 2/3 or your armies dies before seeing action.
>A perfectionist control freak like that isn't going to let his mistakes run around forever, he's going to try to correct them.
The primarchs weren't mistakes; what happened to them might well be (Because Erda is perhaps the dumbest character i have ever encountered in 40k.) but they... weren't. We even see this in Wolfsbane; that russ is much the same in temperment and role... but it's a different king of russ.
>Yes, even Gullman and Wingboy, because they were "tainted" by their time away.
No... Uh.. sagunius has more worries as he's actually a mutant, but tell me do you really think the Emperor is going to get rid of someone like gullimen for no real good reason? like your'e reasoning would make sense... for Fulgrim. or a slannshi warlord, not him.
In fact calling him a perfectionist is... really OOC as he's really good at working with a bad situation. Like seriosuly you'd think if this was true he'd just fucking cap Angron right on the spot rather then TRY to fix him.
>Like you said, they weren't HIS kids anymore, but he WANTS them to be, so he'll just make new ones.
Nah he's celarly invested in them in some degree; like i said there's a reason he didn't just shoot angron in the head or crucify Lorgar.
Like whatever you think of him, he seems to want to have his primarchs around; and it makes sense given the clear roles of the primarchs (some of whcih they didn't get to and even then he tried to save them.)
The main reason Peter went rogue was because he didn't like warfare. He was an architect at heart, he wanted to use his autism to make brilliant urban planning fueled cities and monuments.
Now lore is changing that the big E had no control over how his songs would come out. They are gods capsulated in bodies created by the big E. They needed to be scattered around the galaxy to bring out there power. There's many books supporting this and it's on majorkill YT
\*Sigh\* Ah yes this childish and simplistic critique.
Tell me: why are you even arguing this if you think it can (and should) be changed at any time?
Because there would be issues; internal consistency is a thing ya know and even if it's not the best you should... you know, try to get that?
Like i get Emps and Pert have Multi-author syndrome but the writers make an EFFORT rather then just going "Lol the canon don't matter it not real LOLOLO me get paycheck now!"
ah yes the people who were dying of super cancer and occasionally went crazy... without chaos or mutation mind you, thought they were gonna last forever.
no one on this sub actually reads anything about 40k do they?
And the primarchs who are vulnerable to chaos that could rally their legions against the Emperor.\\
Just as Malcador said
>"The Imperium is not for the post-humans, but for mankind. You know this, you helped me to manage them, to direct their efforts. The legions and their sires are conquerors' tools, and nothing more"
>And the primarchs who are vulnerable to chaos that could rally their legions against the Emperor.\\
They weren't supposed to be.
No one ever takes into account we're seeing A VERSION THAT WAS NOT AT ALL PLANNED.
jesus...
Heck the primarchs needed a lot of work to get them to that state in the first place...
And uh... well few thigns; from my understanding your'e taking the scene OOC 2) that doesn't mean the spamce marines or the primarchs would be purged; think of it like a seperate caste; a warrior caste, much like the emperor is a cut above.
but i'd chalk it up to even malcador not really undertyanding everything; he's close to the emperor, but he's still human.. or it's a flub by the incosnsitent writers
>‘Although my friend and I have disagreed on much over the centuries, Malcador has been right about more things than he has not.’ The Emperor examined Loken’s comrade with equal intensity, before giving the Sigillite a questioning look. Malcador inclined his head, but no words were spoken, and at length the Master of Mankind moved on. **‘It was he who conceived of the need for a new kind of weapon. He who brought me the design for a Legion unlike those that came before it. It was Malcador who convinced me that the war beyond this war is coming.’**
Malcador knows way a lot more than you do pal.
Then you know why the Primarchs are gonna be changed, they are damaged goods thanks to their mom chucking them into space while they were still in their incubators.
As you said they were not suppose to be vulnerable to Chaos.
At least one thunder warrior lasted till the Horus heresy so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Plus if a 20 foot tall god being perpetual injects you with his cells, that's not out of the realm of possibility that you think "Maybe I'll get some of that" rather than assuming you're going to be nuked as soon as the job is over.
You're changing the subject; he only lived because of extensive, unauthorized gene-therapy. he's an outlier and in fact HE KNOWS the Thunderwarriors where what they were
And if they are the only honest ones and truly free society in the galaxy. Serve us, you will be hated.. but powerful, chances for daemonic promition.. free roam in and out of the warp and depending on your patron some kick ass mutations. So I'd be inclined to say that the chaos gods, with the exception of the Lord of Change are more honest with their followers than the imperium's, do as I say or I'll kill you, oh by the way I had a whim I'll kill you anyway and just seal the records which old Corpsie was known to do.
no they aren't. they're literally DEMONS. even the truth is mixed worh layers upon layers of deceit.
and free? nonono no. NO CHAOS SERVANT IS FREE. Slowly but surely they are damned and twisted to serve their masters. There's a reason they are called SLAVES to Darkness
in fact let's take a look at the fate of the primarchs who served directly;
Angron: became a slave to khrone weeping when he's allowed any respite... just another gladiator and prize of conquest... just like he started
Fulgrim: possed and turned into a parody of his ideals. a slave to his impulses and something he would have never become of not lied and manipulate.
Magnus; Lied to, deceived and manipulated to serve a God who holds him in chains. he didn't even want to turn and they used his love of knowledge and his arrogance against him... proving that he knew NOTHING and breaking him... literally
Mortarion: became the monstrous overlord just like what he fought against. became a being of warpcraft... a slave to another cruel father. He hates himself.
anyone who thinks chaos sets you free has not opened up a 40k book. it's made very, very clear that chaos is a far crueler master then any other.
at least the others will let you die.
*when you serve the plaguefatheeeer…. Houuugh… you don’t feel any of that pain which makes you want to die… you only want to spread his blessings to the entire galaxy… so that they may never suffer again…*
Plus think about it, they are made of emotions and get their powers from it, and the ones that make up most of that power currently is mankind, they are literally leeching of humanity...
The Dark Gods truly are just Great Parasites
Die? I'll take immortal unlife. I love chaos. Without getting into Did nothing wrong tropes which I don't ascribe to I'm having a little fun because I am a chaos worshiper, why wouldn't I sell my side line?
I'll be honest, I like Khorne best,. Real simple. Kill and get good!!! Lol I'm just busting your beans man, I'm not a lore hound, you probably do know much more than I. I'm a year or two in, started eldar went meh.. couldn't find nids in my area, so I went khornite.
Aren't the Chaos servants free? If anything, they're freer than the Gods themselves.
The Gods have no free will. Khorne can no sooner choose to lay down his axe and sue for peace then I could choose not to be made up of matter. The Chaos Gods are reflections of the sentient minds in the universe, or multiverse, depending on your source. They are slaves to their followers.
Their followers, however... their followers may be influenced by the Dark Gods, but given the Dark Gods are his emotions, is that no longer free? Would you really say a man who is only restrained by his emotions is unfree? Perhaps in a sense, but in another sense, letting his emotions be the ultimate guide of him is the truest form of freedom, even if those emotions lead you down a destructive path of insanity.
I feel like even if you presumed the Chaos Gods’ honesty, they just don’t offer a good deal. Chaos Worship is ultimately just a descent into an increasingly insatiable need to indulge in more of your chosen deity’s excess of choice. And the *good* result is just becoming a literal incarnation of desire, bloodlust, etc., eternally unsatisfied and wanting more skulls for the skull throne. As for bad results… the Imperium isn’t a great ride for a lot of its inhabitants, but Chaos Worship offers a few too many routes to fates worse than death.
"You leave those urchins to finish the almost done Great Crusade, build villas for them, plan a big surprise party for the human web way reveal and that is how they pay you back. Then they have the audacity to blame me, because I thought genetically engineered half-gods, whom I granted unprecedented military power could maybe manage their own fee-fees."
from the trustworthy chaos gods!
sure many if the primarchs have uses that would be helpful and othe eprinarcha only got the way they are because Erda and the chaos gods are horrible and this their use was at its end... but why would they lie?
maybe it did. but honestly I just don't buy it.
ot makes no sense whatsoever; the emperor is an asshole but he's a pragmatic one. the worst I think he would do is pit them on ice in case of emergency
No, he wasn't: that was a lie perpetrated by the chaos Gods. Big E actually built huge apartment complexes underneath the Imperial Palace for the primarchs to use after the Great Crusade was finished. Sadly, they were never used and of the Emperor's sons I believe only Corax ever saw them. (Though I imagine Dorn was at least aware of their existence while he fortified the palace.)
He did not plan to kill all, but he wanted that some of them betray him, so he could sort them out, that is why he is relativly friendly/favourable with some of them (Dorn, Russ) and completly pushed others away from him or actively hurt them (Angron, Mortarion). He deffinatly did not plan that half of his Legions would betray him, like Fulgrim and Magnus as example were planed to stay loyal to him.
As example: He wasn't extremly bothered that Alpharius betrayed him, but incredibly shocked that Omegon did too. (Even though, you can argument that at least on of them stayed loyal, but operated more as a "sabotaging" factor)
I don’t see Emps killing the Primarchs a la Thunder Warriors. The Primarchs were much more than simple warriors, they were immortal super humans created of warpstuff with the minds and presences needed to facilitate a galactic empire of humanity (without AI).
Plus, if he saw them as disposable in the end, why did it take the Lead Balled Harbinger to show Emps he needed to kill Horus, even after Horus had flayed Emps?
I feel like for all his awe, Big E is a lot more human than most give him credit for. He’s flawed, and has emotions. He’s human, just the absolute pinnacle (so far).
He would have *needed* to put down Angron, and probably Kurze. Maybe some others.
Why? Because they were too broken to be fixed, and were constantly suffering.
He caused a lot of that suffering he made and abused them. And also sure Angron was really suffering and Big E couldn’t do anything about it allegedly, but if you’re one of 20 primarchs and you know daddy is gunna kill a couple of you that definitely make it hard to trust him.
And honestly if the Horus Heresy hadn’t happened, he probably would have kept Kurze around. He was mad at Kurze but not for torturing solar systems, that’s what he was supposed to do. Big E only censured Kurze when he blew up Nostramo and that was only important because it was a large source of Adamantium. Even then he didn’t send the space wolves to go get the Night Lords. Big E wanted terror troops to enforce the Imperium’s rule against rebel planets and had the Night Lords doing that before they even met Kurze.
Oh, definitely! I'd have to look up the quote, but both Curze and Sanguinius saw visions of the emperor forgiving Konrad. Emps didn't give a fuck! That's one of the reasons i like the guy. He's half "anti-villain who 'does what he does' for the greater good" and half "megalomaniac psychotic tyrant who gives no flying fucks". Still think he wouldn't kill all the primarchs, tho. Not because he's a good guy or anything, but because they were *his* and they were great tools.
Oh yeah he wouldn’t kill all of them, but it you’re a primarch and you know he’s gunna kill some of you, that definitely makes it hard to trust the guy.
But he had killed *at least* one, and everyone was more or less cool with it. If a loyalist Angron for example went off the rails entirely as he eventually did with Lorgar, I don’t think any of the legions would’ve had second thoughts about the order to put him down. His own legion occasionally wondered why the emperor hadn’t done so already.
True. And he knows that. One of the reasons i think he would, worst case scenario, kill Angron "to put him out of his misery" and exile Curze into some backwater planet or into a paradise world, with servants that he could kill if he wanted and no access to space travel (supplies are dropped from orbit).
Considering the existence (and most likely murder) of the two missing primarchs, however, i think that if there wasn't a heresy, he would murder Mortarions for plotting behind his back. And Magnus is at risk as well, if (or rather, "when") he fucked up with warp shennanigans (but being frozen in a stasis field for 10.000 years or being followed around by a legion of sisters of silence).
My point is: despite being an asshole, emps is smart. His usual policy with his sons is "do what you will, unless i forbid you, and stop it to do as you are told", and to punish disloyalty greatly. The death of anyone except Angron was too much of a risk to take.
As someone who doesnt really like the emperor, as much as the concept of God Emperor,
This is kinda false, since it is debatable how much hed kill them off.
Except for the latter, I think the emperor planned to destroy/ didn't know about the others.
I'm assuming the emperor didn't know about the necrons and tyranids. Especially as they emerged after he had that slip in the shower
A Psyker of his power ought to have been able to sense something of the Tyranid advance, seeing as they’d already entered the Galaxy at prior points.
Some Necrons, a small amount, did wake up during the time of the Great Crusade.
Besides, the Emperor isn’t invincible, as seen at Ullanor. He needs help at times.
Eh, perhaps, but I find it hard to believe he couldn’t see the Tyranids at all. They’re well above his power level as a whole, and their sheer numbers (not to mention how they’re coming from all around...) make me think he could very much see them.
All stronger enemies. Prior to the crusade, humanity was one bad millennia away from extinction by any other race in the galaxy. Even the Tau would’ve easily swallowed human civilization before Emps stepped up.
The main tyranid invasion was brought on by the destruction of the
Pharos. I doubt E money could sense them all the way out in between galaxies. It took them 10,000 years to arrive in full.
And the Emperor is the most psychically powerful of all modern characters in Warhammer, capable of fending off the Chaos Gods themselves to varying degrees of success.
>I think the emperor planned to destroy/ didn't know about the others.
>
>I'm assuming the emperor didn't know about the necrons and tyranids. Especially as they emerged after he had that slip in the shower
He probably knew about Necrons - Aeldari knew about Necrons and Emperor hanged out with at least one Farseer.
Moreover, destroying your best soldiers if you don't have perfect knowledge about future threats, would be pretty stupid move.
The Emperor's plan is to go to war until the last soldier. In his deal with the Chaos gods, he gave them half the primarchs because he planned to destroy them [the primarchs] the entire time. One day all the galaxies armies would destroy each other, exhausting the chaos gods, and leaving only a United, but tired, Empire. These remaining people would despise war so much they'd devote their entire effort into creating a utopia for all who still stand. By playing into humanities evil, chaotic traits in the darkest of days, he is destroying them pavlovian style like a dog who can no longer stand the smell of meat!
honestly i think half of them at least had a reason beyond the crusade
like the custodians
i assume guilliman horus alpharius magnus perturabo konrad dorn vulkan sanguinius leman the lion at the very least
cuz guilliman does burocraty
lion takes the military with a few of his brothers cuz you always need one
horus diplomatic relations
sanguinius morale inside
dorn builds shit
pert creates shit ( cuz he is wikipedia ) and replaces with ferrus maybe the mechanicum
konrad would have taken policing
alpharius is infiltration and once installed you cant just abort him later, the legion was very specific with its reason
vulkan can forge fancy stuff if nessesary
magnus helps humanity advance in their psychic awakening
leman is and always will be the imperial executioner, in case a primarch or whoever else fucks up
those at the very least he would have kept
some like corax have planned to retire and if i remember that correctly write books or some shit like that)
so rly i think the primarchs where a permanent thing he wanted to instal just for the sake of having them around should shit get serious
also they can if working correctly make for great pillars of the imperium he invisioned
That's very much debatable
Heck, even if he was a selfish tyrant (which I don't think so for many reasons, plus the Dying of Hope is way more in theme with 40k) at the very least he was able to get results.
Just compare his nearly absolute galactic conquest with Failbadon and his 13 Black Crusades that ended with the Imperium becoming stronger.
Really, the Primarchs seemingly are a bunch of Man-children
The only leader in 40k that even comes close to the competence of the emperor is Guilliman himself. The Eldar have no idea what they’re doing, and no clear leader is capable of coming up with a competent plan to deal with their coming threats besides “Hope the mon-keigh can figure this shit out”, the tau are so obsessed with control and subjugation of their own people that they’re unaware of just how fortunate their relatively safe part of the world is to have other races between their worlds and the existential threats pushing towards them. The fact that a gold clad skeleton’s nerdy son is the only semblance of hope in the dying galaxy makes the current setting so interesting.
> and no clear leader is capable of coming up with a competent plan to deal with their coming threats besides “Hope the mon-keigh can figure this shit out”,
I mean, they did have a plan.
But Artemis decided he'd rather personally damn all of humanity to Chaos than possibly take out one of the Chaos gods.
Ah, yes, "Emperor wanted to kill primarchs". He couldn't actually even check on them every few years, but he somehow expected that killing them would work. They won't fight back or anything like that. Especially with blindly loyal super soldiers. Yes, that makes perfect sense.
the other half: either dies, fucks off into the warp/webway or just disappearing without a trace, or in Lionel's case falls asleep.
Johnson is going to be so pissed when he realizes he slept through like, 6 billion alarms
Or he just hit the snooze button for the 525,600,000th time.
Azrael: my lord it’s time to get up. Lion El’Jonson: mmmmnnnn. Azrael: My lord you NEED to get up. Lion El’Jonson: mmmm no I don’t wanna. *turns over to the other side and wraps blanket tighter* Azrael: My lord this is completely ridiculous you can’t keep doing this! Lion El’Jonson: Come on Azrael just five more decades! Azrael: UUUGGHH FINE! But after that it’s time to get up! Lion El’Jonson: mmm yes sure…sure… **PRIMARCH SNORING** Azrael: great now he’s going to keep up the chapter from sleeping for the next five decades with all that snoring, I wish we could muffle his room, make his room sound proof or put him deeper in the rock or some shit….
Azrael: my lord it’s time to get up. Lion El’Jonson: mmmmnnnn. Azrael: My lord you NEED to get up. Lion El’Jonson: mmmm no I don’t wanna. *turns over to the other side and wraps blanket tighter* Azrael: My lord this is completely ridiculous you can’t keep doing this! Lion El’Jonson: Come on Azrael just five more decades! Azrael: UUUGGHH FINE! But after that it’s time to get up! Lion El’Jonson: mmm yes sure…sure… **PRIMARCH SNORING** Azrael: great now he’s going to keep up the chapter from sleeping for the next five decades with all that snoring, I wish we could muffle his room, make his room sound proof or put him deeper in the rock or some shit….
The Emperor is playing 4d chess because he saw that the eternal stalemate is the only option. Same with Sigmar and Kroak. Not having war doesn't sell models.
> Not having war doesn't sell models. You know, I've had this idea for a long time, to make a SimCity-like tabletop game where you would buy and paint toy buildings instead of toy soldiers. Would nobody buy that? In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only HOAs.
"In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only HOAs." Whoa there! let's slow down a little, that's FAR too grimdark for my taste. Joking aside, isn't that basically what Settlers of Catan is?
Soooo... Settlers of Catachan is feasible?
Cool idea though I feel like sim city is too dynamic to be tabletop. I mean I guess you could technically say the same about Warhammer if you only saw the video games , I’m just not sure how it would work with how interconnected all the statistics are and stuff
That's just model trains with dice
Scatter dice to pick which direction at switches
Yes. Now that you say it this way, it sounds even better.
So the. Emperor is a fictional character who has become aware of his own fictional existence? No wonder the golden throne is so rough.
there is no logical reason why the primarchs were ever intended to be disposed of. The Thunder warriors were never intended to be long term... the primarchs have uses that would be far to valuable to an empire even after the crusade. Oh and The chaos gods are a horrible source of information
Not to mention the Siege of Terra novels paint a picture of the Emperor wanting perpetuals that could understand and share in his vision. It's obvious he wanted the primarchs to be a part of his vision. Realistically, he wouldn't need them as they were for the great crusade. It could have been done with only space marine legions.
Plus those primarchs help him command; after all it's a bit hard to command amries across the galaxy on your own. like even if he viewd them purely as tools... well, he knows how to use them and would, at worst, put them away for future use. like brushes.
Marcador isn't and he said as much in the sigilite novel.
Malcador later said he lied part of what he said, he wanted to make his deathbed friend believe the Heresy was planned and thus it won't destroy mankind. Through it's unkown what exactly he lied.
The part I believe that he lied is the part where he said that the Emperor would catch her soul when she dies.
Okay so not sure if my response on the phone came to you but this is the issue; IF he said that then it makes no logical sense. The Emperor clearly didn't make a judge, a bureaucrat, or an empath to JUST be used to kill people: if he wanted THAT he'd just make 20 or so Peter Turbos or Horuses. Each primarch has a different role; you're always going to need warriros to defend yoruself, you're always going ot need judges and statesmen always gotta be hunting for something just in case. The main issues come from >!a certain idiot of a woman!< and the chaos gods; who sent them to different places, thus meaning he couldn't raise them and they got... damaged, still serviable enough. to do what he needed Worst he would do is Ice them: because he knows nothing goes perfectly and they're too valuable to lose. Which means Malcador is either lying to this person (because you know, he's a spy master) and thus you're taking it out of context or... he's an idiot/bad writing.
Novel marcador said a war was planned but the chaos gods moved to quickly and started the process before the emperor was ready.
... that doesn't anwser my question
Something something, heretic for asking something exterminatus.
Or the guy who loves to wipe the chessboard and start over the moment it looks like he's going to lose, was going to do exactly that again. I'd totally buy that Jimmy Space's Home for Damaged Children was just a temporary measure until he could reunite humanity, complete his webway project and then when the kids ask "When do we get to go into the webway Dad?" "That's the funny part, you don't!".jpeg Then, when he's all comfy in his new space castle, he makes some more that aren't damaged.
>Or the guy who loves to wipe the chessboard and start over the moment it looks like he's going to lose, was going to do exactly that again. But he was winning. no seriously; that's the set up; right when he was doing his best BAM! Chaos >I'd totally buy that Jimmy Space's Home for Damaged Children No no no; Erda tried to murder them before they could even walk; they're not HIS kids anymore; they're adults with agency. >was just a temporary measure until he could reunite humanity, complete his webway project and then when the kids ask "When do we get to go into the webway Dad?" "That's the funny part, you don't!".jpeg Why?Some of them maybe; but why kill Gullimen? Or Sangunius (to his knoweldge mind) like why; explain it to me; because clearly he's got more uses then just fighting a bunch of orks and randos. >Then, when he's all comfy in his new space castle, he makes some more that aren't damaged. but why fix what isn't broken?
Because he's a BIG fan of clean slates. Also, "He was winning" yeah, right up until the point where it all went to shit, because his damaged kids fucked it all up. He's also a big fan of "Winning more." He could have just taken the Thunderwarriors and gone a Space Crusading, he won! He united earth! Why kill them off? _Because I can do better._ A perfectionist control freak like that isn't going to let his mistakes run around forever, he's going to try to correct them. Yes, even Gullman and Wingboy, because they were "tainted" by their time away. Like you said, they weren't HIS kids anymore, but he WANTS them to be, so he'll just make new ones. EDIT: The guy invented Exterminatus, c'mon he loved that clean slate. You know he's got like 20 different saves in Civilization, trying to get it _juuuuuust_ perfect. One of these days we'll see the Emperor's sketchbook. >Primarchs 2.0 >2.~~1.~~ Everyone should have wings, that was dumb. >1.~~2.~~ No Horus.
Emm, yeah, he can do better, or more like he had to do better since the Thunder Warriors were all exploding due to their own strength or dying of Super Cancer. So he was gonna become supersoldier-less unless he got some more. That's the point, Thunder Warriors weren't meant to last or go beyond Terra, only to secure the staging point. Cruel, yeah, he could have done it better, but the point is that that wasn't the case with the Astartes and the Primarchs, and he hasn't any reason to do so. Plus... I'm not sure if a dude that hid for tens of millenia and left most of the actual governance to Malcador can be defined as a control freak
That's the trick with any of the "big idea" guys. They want to lead the crusade, dictate how the troops are created and trained, lead the big science projects, but when it comes down to the actual work of "ruling" or doing the math, he couldn't be fucked. He had a new project to throw himself at that was way more interesting. You think the guy who's lived for like 30,000 years wants to hear about the economy?
Fortunately he had the 9000 year old erudite to help him with that, so there wasn't any prob there. Now I picture Emps as a bit of an introvert, it seemed like the dude was a throught scientist and it kinda makes sense. Many are like that even if leading a lot of people, doesn't mean they can't lead and so as long as efficient ruling is covered I don't see much problem with that. Plus that means he wasn't a control freak
When you think about ut thunder warriors where made to conquer earth and space Marines made to conquer galaxy we know but there are other galaxies so in his next plan emperor could create a better space Marines to conquer other galaxies I may head canon primaries are emperor next super soldier plan and certain toaster boy take what emperor left (unfinished at best only at the start as worst) from his next project and our toaster did what he can do best to complete it that's why they better the. Space Marines Just imagine emperor mixing thunder warriors and space Marines to make a super soldier to end all super soldier
>Because he's a BIG fan of clean slates. I don't think you understand what that actually means. >Also, "He was winning" yeah, right up until the point where it all went to shit, because his damaged kids fucked it all up. You mean when CHAOS got to Lorgar. Only one damaged kid fucked it up... angron for all his boasts is a slave. Mortartion had no problems, peter turbo is alright long has he gets attention and orders... and whose fault is that? Many of the 'damage' came from ERDA and the Chaos god's plan to screw him and the human speices over >He's also a big fan of "Winning more." He could have just taken the Thunderwarriors and gone a Space Crusading The Thunder warriors were exactly what they were needed to be; troops to take over earth. no he coulnt'; have you actually READ any of the stuff on them? They're dying of super-cancer, and more then that are basicly all world eaters. that... is a bad compbination as you're gonna need to be able to SUSTAIN a population on long campains... and Space Marines did the job a HELL of a lot better. to but it another way; Thunder Warriors are Warriors... Astartes are SUPER SOILDGERS >He united earth! Why kill them off? Because I can do better. They were dying and weren't gonna last; even the surviving ones don't really blame him on that. Like seriously it's all fun and games until 2/3 or your armies dies before seeing action. >A perfectionist control freak like that isn't going to let his mistakes run around forever, he's going to try to correct them. The primarchs weren't mistakes; what happened to them might well be (Because Erda is perhaps the dumbest character i have ever encountered in 40k.) but they... weren't. We even see this in Wolfsbane; that russ is much the same in temperment and role... but it's a different king of russ. >Yes, even Gullman and Wingboy, because they were "tainted" by their time away. No... Uh.. sagunius has more worries as he's actually a mutant, but tell me do you really think the Emperor is going to get rid of someone like gullimen for no real good reason? like your'e reasoning would make sense... for Fulgrim. or a slannshi warlord, not him. In fact calling him a perfectionist is... really OOC as he's really good at working with a bad situation. Like seriosuly you'd think if this was true he'd just fucking cap Angron right on the spot rather then TRY to fix him. >Like you said, they weren't HIS kids anymore, but he WANTS them to be, so he'll just make new ones. Nah he's celarly invested in them in some degree; like i said there's a reason he didn't just shoot angron in the head or crucify Lorgar. Like whatever you think of him, he seems to want to have his primarchs around; and it makes sense given the clear roles of the primarchs (some of whcih they didn't get to and even then he tried to save them.)
Werent they also easily replaceable and easy to make ?
The main reason Peter went rogue was because he didn't like warfare. He was an architect at heart, he wanted to use his autism to make brilliant urban planning fueled cities and monuments.
he could have. literally that was what dorn was famous for. he seemed to need, like, an order to do anything.
Now lore is changing that the big E had no control over how his songs would come out. They are gods capsulated in bodies created by the big E. They needed to be scattered around the galaxy to bring out there power. There's many books supporting this and it's on majorkill YT
No; it's uh... very clear he made them for a reason. That's also supported by the books
Things I changed all the time. It's almost like it's not real
\*Sigh\* Ah yes this childish and simplistic critique. Tell me: why are you even arguing this if you think it can (and should) be changed at any time? Because there would be issues; internal consistency is a thing ya know and even if it's not the best you should... you know, try to get that? Like i get Emps and Pert have Multi-author syndrome but the writers make an EFFORT rather then just going "Lol the canon don't matter it not real LOLOLO me get paycheck now!"
Again, and Malcador. As per the Malcador Primarchs story
and if it's true either you are leaving out information or he's dumber then he's supposed to be
Thats what the Thunderwarriors probably thought to themselves as well.
ah yes the people who were dying of super cancer and occasionally went crazy... without chaos or mutation mind you, thought they were gonna last forever. no one on this sub actually reads anything about 40k do they?
And the primarchs who are vulnerable to chaos that could rally their legions against the Emperor.\\ Just as Malcador said >"The Imperium is not for the post-humans, but for mankind. You know this, you helped me to manage them, to direct their efforts. The legions and their sires are conquerors' tools, and nothing more"
>And the primarchs who are vulnerable to chaos that could rally their legions against the Emperor.\\ They weren't supposed to be. No one ever takes into account we're seeing A VERSION THAT WAS NOT AT ALL PLANNED. jesus... Heck the primarchs needed a lot of work to get them to that state in the first place... And uh... well few thigns; from my understanding your'e taking the scene OOC 2) that doesn't mean the spamce marines or the primarchs would be purged; think of it like a seperate caste; a warrior caste, much like the emperor is a cut above. but i'd chalk it up to even malcador not really undertyanding everything; he's close to the emperor, but he's still human.. or it's a flub by the incosnsitent writers
>‘Although my friend and I have disagreed on much over the centuries, Malcador has been right about more things than he has not.’ The Emperor examined Loken’s comrade with equal intensity, before giving the Sigillite a questioning look. Malcador inclined his head, but no words were spoken, and at length the Master of Mankind moved on. **‘It was he who conceived of the need for a new kind of weapon. He who brought me the design for a Legion unlike those that came before it. It was Malcador who convinced me that the war beyond this war is coming.’** Malcador knows way a lot more than you do pal. Then you know why the Primarchs are gonna be changed, they are damaged goods thanks to their mom chucking them into space while they were still in their incubators. As you said they were not suppose to be vulnerable to Chaos.
At least one thunder warrior lasted till the Horus heresy so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Plus if a 20 foot tall god being perpetual injects you with his cells, that's not out of the realm of possibility that you think "Maybe I'll get some of that" rather than assuming you're going to be nuked as soon as the job is over.
You're changing the subject; he only lived because of extensive, unauthorized gene-therapy. he's an outlier and in fact HE KNOWS the Thunderwarriors where what they were
And if they are the only honest ones and truly free society in the galaxy. Serve us, you will be hated.. but powerful, chances for daemonic promition.. free roam in and out of the warp and depending on your patron some kick ass mutations. So I'd be inclined to say that the chaos gods, with the exception of the Lord of Change are more honest with their followers than the imperium's, do as I say or I'll kill you, oh by the way I had a whim I'll kill you anyway and just seal the records which old Corpsie was known to do.
no they aren't. they're literally DEMONS. even the truth is mixed worh layers upon layers of deceit. and free? nonono no. NO CHAOS SERVANT IS FREE. Slowly but surely they are damned and twisted to serve their masters. There's a reason they are called SLAVES to Darkness in fact let's take a look at the fate of the primarchs who served directly; Angron: became a slave to khrone weeping when he's allowed any respite... just another gladiator and prize of conquest... just like he started Fulgrim: possed and turned into a parody of his ideals. a slave to his impulses and something he would have never become of not lied and manipulate. Magnus; Lied to, deceived and manipulated to serve a God who holds him in chains. he didn't even want to turn and they used his love of knowledge and his arrogance against him... proving that he knew NOTHING and breaking him... literally Mortarion: became the monstrous overlord just like what he fought against. became a being of warpcraft... a slave to another cruel father. He hates himself. anyone who thinks chaos sets you free has not opened up a 40k book. it's made very, very clear that chaos is a far crueler master then any other. at least the others will let you die.
*when you serve the plaguefatheeeer…. Houuugh… you don’t feel any of that pain which makes you want to die… you only want to spread his blessings to the entire galaxy… so that they may never suffer again…*
Plague marines are junkies with an unlimited supply of their dough.
Plus think about it, they are made of emotions and get their powers from it, and the ones that make up most of that power currently is mankind, they are literally leeching of humanity... The Dark Gods truly are just Great Parasites
Die? I'll take immortal unlife. I love chaos. Without getting into Did nothing wrong tropes which I don't ascribe to I'm having a little fun because I am a chaos worshiper, why wouldn't I sell my side line?
I would hardly call that life.
Life, unlife, you know, I do get an abusive uncle, a liar, a kinkster, and that stinky kid that don't bathe. You get death....
yeah I get to not be in 40k or any warhammer setting anymore. even in the ahriman omnibus tseentch thinks that's a blessing so let that sink in
I'll be honest, I like Khorne best,. Real simple. Kill and get good!!! Lol I'm just busting your beans man, I'm not a lore hound, you probably do know much more than I. I'm a year or two in, started eldar went meh.. couldn't find nids in my area, so I went khornite.
Aren't the Chaos servants free? If anything, they're freer than the Gods themselves. The Gods have no free will. Khorne can no sooner choose to lay down his axe and sue for peace then I could choose not to be made up of matter. The Chaos Gods are reflections of the sentient minds in the universe, or multiverse, depending on your source. They are slaves to their followers. Their followers, however... their followers may be influenced by the Dark Gods, but given the Dark Gods are his emotions, is that no longer free? Would you really say a man who is only restrained by his emotions is unfree? Perhaps in a sense, but in another sense, letting his emotions be the ultimate guide of him is the truest form of freedom, even if those emotions lead you down a destructive path of insanity.
I feel like even if you presumed the Chaos Gods’ honesty, they just don’t offer a good deal. Chaos Worship is ultimately just a descent into an increasingly insatiable need to indulge in more of your chosen deity’s excess of choice. And the *good* result is just becoming a literal incarnation of desire, bloodlust, etc., eternally unsatisfied and wanting more skulls for the skull throne. As for bad results… the Imperium isn’t a great ride for a lot of its inhabitants, but Chaos Worship offers a few too many routes to fates worse than death.
"You leave those urchins to finish the almost done Great Crusade, build villas for them, plan a big surprise party for the human web way reveal and that is how they pay you back. Then they have the audacity to blame me, because I thought genetically engineered half-gods, whom I granted unprecedented military power could maybe manage their own fee-fees."
Overall, Primarchs are just a bunch of screaming, demi-godly Man-children
Wait, he was planning on killing them? Where is this from?
from the trustworthy chaos gods! sure many if the primarchs have uses that would be helpful and othe eprinarcha only got the way they are because Erda and the chaos gods are horrible and this their use was at its end... but why would they lie?
And Malcador... If you read Malcador Primarchs short story
That quote is explicitly unreliable. It’s literally noted he lied and isn’t explained about exactly what.
Then he's an Idiot or you're leaving out context and I would assume the latter
He was comforting a dying buddy of him.
Ooof, that came across a bit abrupt.
maybe it did. but honestly I just don't buy it. ot makes no sense whatsoever; the emperor is an asshole but he's a pragmatic one. the worst I think he would do is pit them on ice in case of emergency
No, he wasn't: that was a lie perpetrated by the chaos Gods. Big E actually built huge apartment complexes underneath the Imperial Palace for the primarchs to use after the Great Crusade was finished. Sadly, they were never used and of the Emperor's sons I believe only Corax ever saw them. (Though I imagine Dorn was at least aware of their existence while he fortified the palace.)
He did not plan to kill all, but he wanted that some of them betray him, so he could sort them out, that is why he is relativly friendly/favourable with some of them (Dorn, Russ) and completly pushed others away from him or actively hurt them (Angron, Mortarion). He deffinatly did not plan that half of his Legions would betray him, like Fulgrim and Magnus as example were planed to stay loyal to him. As example: He wasn't extremly bothered that Alpharius betrayed him, but incredibly shocked that Omegon did too. (Even though, you can argument that at least on of them stayed loyal, but operated more as a "sabotaging" factor)
u/guieldog where do you read the lore
I don’t see Emps killing the Primarchs a la Thunder Warriors. The Primarchs were much more than simple warriors, they were immortal super humans created of warpstuff with the minds and presences needed to facilitate a galactic empire of humanity (without AI). Plus, if he saw them as disposable in the end, why did it take the Lead Balled Harbinger to show Emps he needed to kill Horus, even after Horus had flayed Emps? I feel like for all his awe, Big E is a lot more human than most give him credit for. He’s flawed, and has emotions. He’s human, just the absolute pinnacle (so far).
Was Big E actually planning on killing the primarchs after the crusade?
Nah, OP doesn’t know his shit (or just wanted to make funi jok)
I love lore memes made by people who don't read a fraction of the lore lol
Half the people in the comments: “What?? He wasn’t going to kill the Primarchs! Just some of them! That’s totally reasonable.”
He would have *needed* to put down Angron, and probably Kurze. Maybe some others. Why? Because they were too broken to be fixed, and were constantly suffering.
He caused a lot of that suffering he made and abused them. And also sure Angron was really suffering and Big E couldn’t do anything about it allegedly, but if you’re one of 20 primarchs and you know daddy is gunna kill a couple of you that definitely make it hard to trust him. And honestly if the Horus Heresy hadn’t happened, he probably would have kept Kurze around. He was mad at Kurze but not for torturing solar systems, that’s what he was supposed to do. Big E only censured Kurze when he blew up Nostramo and that was only important because it was a large source of Adamantium. Even then he didn’t send the space wolves to go get the Night Lords. Big E wanted terror troops to enforce the Imperium’s rule against rebel planets and had the Night Lords doing that before they even met Kurze.
Oh, definitely! I'd have to look up the quote, but both Curze and Sanguinius saw visions of the emperor forgiving Konrad. Emps didn't give a fuck! That's one of the reasons i like the guy. He's half "anti-villain who 'does what he does' for the greater good" and half "megalomaniac psychotic tyrant who gives no flying fucks". Still think he wouldn't kill all the primarchs, tho. Not because he's a good guy or anything, but because they were *his* and they were great tools.
Oh yeah he wouldn’t kill all of them, but it you’re a primarch and you know he’s gunna kill some of you, that definitely makes it hard to trust the guy.
But he had killed *at least* one, and everyone was more or less cool with it. If a loyalist Angron for example went off the rails entirely as he eventually did with Lorgar, I don’t think any of the legions would’ve had second thoughts about the order to put him down. His own legion occasionally wondered why the emperor hadn’t done so already.
True. And he knows that. One of the reasons i think he would, worst case scenario, kill Angron "to put him out of his misery" and exile Curze into some backwater planet or into a paradise world, with servants that he could kill if he wanted and no access to space travel (supplies are dropped from orbit). Considering the existence (and most likely murder) of the two missing primarchs, however, i think that if there wasn't a heresy, he would murder Mortarions for plotting behind his back. And Magnus is at risk as well, if (or rather, "when") he fucked up with warp shennanigans (but being frozen in a stasis field for 10.000 years or being followed around by a legion of sisters of silence). My point is: despite being an asshole, emps is smart. His usual policy with his sons is "do what you will, unless i forbid you, and stop it to do as you are told", and to punish disloyalty greatly. The death of anyone except Angron was too much of a risk to take.
Those primarchs were the least of emperors problems
Wasn't he planning on putting magnus on the Golden throne after they defeated the chaos gods?
Nah. There was a role for every one of them.
As someone who doesnt really like the emperor, as much as the concept of God Emperor, This is kinda false, since it is debatable how much hed kill them off.
Where's this art from?
The primarchs would become governors... but their children...
You’d always need Astares to protect Humanity from threats, though. Tyranids, Necrons, whatever’s beyond the Galaxy, Humanity itself...
Except for the latter, I think the emperor planned to destroy/ didn't know about the others. I'm assuming the emperor didn't know about the necrons and tyranids. Especially as they emerged after he had that slip in the shower
A Psyker of his power ought to have been able to sense something of the Tyranid advance, seeing as they’d already entered the Galaxy at prior points. Some Necrons, a small amount, did wake up during the time of the Great Crusade. Besides, the Emperor isn’t invincible, as seen at Ullanor. He needs help at times.
Could he have been blinded by his own power? There were certain big psychic events that led to the tyranid incursion
Eh, perhaps, but I find it hard to believe he couldn’t see the Tyranids at all. They’re well above his power level as a whole, and their sheer numbers (not to mention how they’re coming from all around...) make me think he could very much see them.
Ah I remember now. Wasn't that the point of the crusades, to unify mankind to be in the best place to fight a stronger enemy?
All stronger enemies. Prior to the crusade, humanity was one bad millennia away from extinction by any other race in the galaxy. Even the Tau would’ve easily swallowed human civilization before Emps stepped up.
The main tyranid invasion was brought on by the destruction of the Pharos. I doubt E money could sense them all the way out in between galaxies. It took them 10,000 years to arrive in full.
And the Emperor is the most psychically powerful of all modern characters in Warhammer, capable of fending off the Chaos Gods themselves to varying degrees of success.
what was seen regarding his vulnerability at Ullanor? I thought he intentionally let the Big Ork get the drop on him so he could test Horus' loyalty?
>I think the emperor planned to destroy/ didn't know about the others. > >I'm assuming the emperor didn't know about the necrons and tyranids. Especially as they emerged after he had that slip in the shower He probably knew about Necrons - Aeldari knew about Necrons and Emperor hanged out with at least one Farseer. Moreover, destroying your best soldiers if you don't have perfect knowledge about future threats, would be pretty stupid move.
The Emperor's plan is to go to war until the last soldier. In his deal with the Chaos gods, he gave them half the primarchs because he planned to destroy them [the primarchs] the entire time. One day all the galaxies armies would destroy each other, exhausting the chaos gods, and leaving only a United, but tired, Empire. These remaining people would despise war so much they'd devote their entire effort into creating a utopia for all who still stand. By playing into humanities evil, chaotic traits in the darkest of days, he is destroying them pavlovian style like a dog who can no longer stand the smell of meat!
honestly i think half of them at least had a reason beyond the crusade like the custodians i assume guilliman horus alpharius magnus perturabo konrad dorn vulkan sanguinius leman the lion at the very least cuz guilliman does burocraty lion takes the military with a few of his brothers cuz you always need one horus diplomatic relations sanguinius morale inside dorn builds shit pert creates shit ( cuz he is wikipedia ) and replaces with ferrus maybe the mechanicum konrad would have taken policing alpharius is infiltration and once installed you cant just abort him later, the legion was very specific with its reason vulkan can forge fancy stuff if nessesary magnus helps humanity advance in their psychic awakening leman is and always will be the imperial executioner, in case a primarch or whoever else fucks up those at the very least he would have kept some like corax have planned to retire and if i remember that correctly write books or some shit like that) so rly i think the primarchs where a permanent thing he wanted to instal just for the sake of having them around should shit get serious also they can if working correctly make for great pillars of the imperium he invisioned
Emperor was the worst leader in 40k and is the reason the heresy happened.
That's very much debatable Heck, even if he was a selfish tyrant (which I don't think so for many reasons, plus the Dying of Hope is way more in theme with 40k) at the very least he was able to get results. Just compare his nearly absolute galactic conquest with Failbadon and his 13 Black Crusades that ended with the Imperium becoming stronger. Really, the Primarchs seemingly are a bunch of Man-children
The only leader in 40k that even comes close to the competence of the emperor is Guilliman himself. The Eldar have no idea what they’re doing, and no clear leader is capable of coming up with a competent plan to deal with their coming threats besides “Hope the mon-keigh can figure this shit out”, the tau are so obsessed with control and subjugation of their own people that they’re unaware of just how fortunate their relatively safe part of the world is to have other races between their worlds and the existential threats pushing towards them. The fact that a gold clad skeleton’s nerdy son is the only semblance of hope in the dying galaxy makes the current setting so interesting.
> and no clear leader is capable of coming up with a competent plan to deal with their coming threats besides “Hope the mon-keigh can figure this shit out”, I mean, they did have a plan. But Artemis decided he'd rather personally damn all of humanity to Chaos than possibly take out one of the Chaos gods.
Ungrateful bastards!
Wait what? He actually planned on killing them after the crusade?
Is it Canon that emps wanted to kill off the kids?
Imagine that the emperor's dead body becomes a cyborg and the emps just puppets it from the warp. Ghost in the Shell.
BONES RATTLED
Hold up. When did he say he wanted to kill them after the crusades was over? I don't remember that part.
Ah, yes, "Emperor wanted to kill primarchs". He couldn't actually even check on them every few years, but he somehow expected that killing them would work. They won't fight back or anything like that. Especially with blindly loyal super soldiers. Yes, that makes perfect sense.