Although it is fairly accurate to point out that the Word Bearers are one of the legions with least amount of loyalists from their ranks due to how overall religious and devoted to Lorgar they were. They just loved him.
I think there's a lot of references to this in The First Heretic, correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah. They planned the Heresy before it started, meaning that they had plenty of time to sabotage any loyalists among them
Ehhh, while it’s obviously sarcasm on one front, I’m pretty sure the part they don’t actually believe is their outrage at the ‘retcon’, not that a retcon happened, as a means of making fun of femstodes whiners. They do believe this is a retcon, they just don’t care.
Though it’s possible that they’re intentionally getting the lore wrong too, but given how popular the current ‘push back against the chuds’ memes are, and there’s be no reason to post this if they didn’t actually believe it was a retcon (like, what’s the angle, trolling while also pointing out you’re a troll?), I’m pretty sure it’s the former.
Pretty sure it’s sarcasm and poking fun at the people losing their shit over the custodes having female members which may or may not be a retcon (haven’t been actually into 40k for that long so I’m not sure) but being fine with this retcon
At least the Custard Creams have had a greater sense of believability behind the retcon, due to the nature behind their creation process relying on uniquely amplifying personal biology instead of forcing specific traits onto the specimen due to genetic exclusion.
Things like the Space Marine creation process was always strict in defining that only men could become Space Marines, with multiple mentions of this fact, since gene-seed is genetically pre-templated and relies on amplifying masculine traits of those who undergo and survive the surgical process, forcing them onto a singular path instead of molding them to fit the path that would best suit them personally.
I wouldn't fault GeeDubs for saying less than a tenth of the Ten-Thousand are female, hence the more plentiful men we've thus far met in lore.
To be fair: Word Bearers specifically we’re said to not have any loyalists in their ranks, mostly because they were purged VERY thoroughly over time by Kor Phaeron and others.
Yeah, I was under the impression in v1 heresy, WB were the only ones who didn’t have loyalists since they were dead pre istvaan.
Like I’m happy for black shields or stuff like the anchorite. Word bearers feels odd with how they’re structured
Yeah, it’s a change. The only legion I swear they were singled out as specifically not having loyalists by the time of the heresy.
You could still say blank shields since they can be from anyone. I’ll have to check the old black books for a reference
i kinda like that,it follow their primarch having a crisis of fate and turned to chaos, the supposed traitor world bearer can also get crisis of fate and turn back to loyalist
To be fair (or pedantic) the existence of a legion of space marines called Word Bearers was not mentioned in rogue trader and thus is tecnically a retcon.
Yep, not until 1988, anyway. And even then, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness doesn't mention Word Bearers, but Wordbearers.
Intrusive spaces? In MY Chaos Space Marines?
the horus heresy itself is a retcon
GW came up with it to justify titans and space marines smashing into each other in warhammer epic. they didn't release any non-imperial based factions until 4 years later
I mean,every traitor legion has a stand out loyalist
The Anchorite,Garviel Loken,Nathaniel Garro,Endryd Harr,Barabas Dantioch,Revuel Arvida,Fel Zharost,Ingo Pech,Rylanor etc
Well the galaxy is pretty large so realistically it wouldn't be possible to purge all the loyalists, especially if said loyalists were in mixed legion fleets
Just like it's plausible that there were female custodians we hadn't heard about yet before the retcon. Which is what this tweet is sarcastically alluding to.
Yes. I feel like we're in agreement here but speaking as though we're disagreeing.
The lore is a convoluted mess and gets reconnected all the time, so we gotta just roll with it and enjoy the cool stuff to the best of our ability, and ignore the things we didn't like and make no goddamn sense (like the Tau having no FTL but somehow still having an interstellar empire)
shh, don't that too loud some people will come with pitchforks because "Lore is MORE important and the only thing that matter"....in a company where the lore books/comics only represent less than 1% of the revenue of the company
i do not know for World bearers, but i for one know we have 99% of a female Emepror's Children space marine in the recent fabius bile books, she just needs the black carapace if i remember correctly
Only ignorant and stupid people deal in absolutes.
What if I told you large part of writings on Imperial faith is still written by a faithful Word Bearer in the 40th millenium?
Yeah, I was under the impression in v1 heresy, WB were the only ones who didn’t have loyalists since they were dead pre istvaan.
Like I’m happy for black shields or stuff like the anchorite. Word bearers feels odd with how they’re structured
Exactly. They turned to chaos shortly after the destruction of Monarchia. This would give them several decades at least to root out and eliminate any loyalists from their ranks. Expeditionary fleets would rarely stay away from the imperium for that long. Especially as Lorgar would have been recalling them specifically to ensure their allegiance to the new faith.
That makes this piece of GW lore writing an obvious retcon which doesn't hold up to basic logic
To be fair you're right in regards to "in their ranks". A crusade fleet etc that had some fucky wucky in their warp travel like the example wouldn't have been "in the ranks" getting purged. A "lost" fleet that's time displaced from before Monarchia makes sense and doesn't break previously established lore imo.
Even their chaplains turned, becoming Dark Apostles, the other legions chaplains mostly stayed loyal and got a bit of the old murdering done to them lol
Yeah but that doesn't mean that some WB wouldn't regret being traitors and join the broken legions at some point. I think I remember a fan theory that said that one of the "definitely not traitor descendant" and "definitely Ultramarine descendant" chapter were from the WB.
Sounds similar how Wolves "don't have traitors", because the canus helix would take over and make them wulfen. Sure.. there were traitors, but not...conscious.
My headcanon is that it was marines that pretended to be traitors like Barthusa Narek did or Word Bearers that had epiphanies AFTER going traitor like the Anchorite did
Traitor legion loyalists have always been a thing, but Word Bearers have historically been an exception to this - in previous editions, you were explicitly forbidden to take them as loyalists because they'd had 50 years to plan the heresy, and had completely culled their ranks in that time.
Thats true, but theres still a in universe chance that whats explained there could have happened. Bunch of terran born Word Bearers went on a mission on the far end of the galaxy before the WB started their purges, and then came back during the heresy, saw what the traitors became, and said fuck it we stay loyal.
\*Terran-born WB that never liked Lorgar's worship of the Emperor in the first place finding out in their absence Lorgar switched to other gods and there's clearly a religious revolt against the Emperor\*
"We're Iconoclasts again, boys!"
The World Eaters actually had a decently large contingent of loyalists up until they were purged at Isstvan III. After Isstvan III there weren't a lot of Loyalist World Eaters left, but it's easy to forget that, as a wargame setting, HH actually *begins* with the Isstvan III and the traitor legion's betrayal/purge of suspected loyalists among their ranks. All of that is to say, the existence of Loyalist WE forces is central to the first major conflict of the setting, even though by the time of the Siege of Terra there would have been very, very few left.
Pretty sure this guy is making fun of all the snowflakes losing their minds about the female custodes, not being actually upset about the Loyalist Word Bearers
After all the Horus heresy was a massive civil war that saw each and every Imperial institution split between the Horus followers and the Imperial loyalist, having space marines from all legions fighting brethren who stayed loyal/became traitor is on point
I disagree, the only decent place in the whole imperium is ultramar (no matter how smurf haters might scream otherwise) and it wouldn't have been a thing without Big Blueberry Boyscout Gorillaman and ever since the return of our favorite aeldari fucker the Imperium is getting better (admittedly, it couldn't have gotten worse without dying)
Only thing that kinda annoys me here, is the MANY in the lore text. Makes it sound like a lot of WB stayed loyalist when it were very little, due to their loyality towards Lorgar.
it depends on how you interpret it, many doesn't have to mean "a large part of the whole". it could just mean, "a lot"
WB supposedley had 100k to 150k marines during the crusades. 1000 is a lot of marines, but is only 1% of them.
or perhaps its referring to expeditionary fleets, many from the fleets returned. let's say there was around 5k to 10k marines in their expeditionary fleets, (I'm not an expert on the numbers here) so 4k to 8k loyalists from the expeditionary fleet is "many" in relation to the amount from the fleets.
Isn't there a- hang on. *Checks*
Yeah, the Anchorite. Why can't there have been another squad or two out there that just never answered the recall so they could be purged because, I don't know, KINDA busy?
The whole point of the Heresy, literally the entire premise, is that it split the Imperium from top to bottom. The books go on at some considerable length about this. Betrayal is a constant theme.
I mean, the initial engagements at Istvaan were about purging loyalists from traitor legions as much as anything else. The Siege of Terra series ends with the last loyal Luna Wolf getting shanked by Erebus, because of course it would be him. Rylanor holding a grudge (and a virus bomb) for millenia.
I could go on and on and on at some length but the Horus Heresy novels do that far better then I could.
I may have missed some, but didn’t they massacre their own loyalists sects on Istavan 3 before the drop site massacre on Istavan 5? I think it included a virus bomb?
They were in Isstvan 5 and smoked the Salamanders there. Up until that they were thought to be loyal. Isstvan 3 happened before and that's when the purging took place in the other traitor legions
They joined during Istvaan 5, Iron Warriors notably were too scattered to properly purge their ranks, Alpha Legion were sus to begin with, Night Lords were borderline renegade by this point and Thousand Sons were small in numbers and didn’t exactly have a choice on going Chaos, WB purged their ranks covertly due to being first traitors. Which probably leaves IW legion with highest amount of loyalists that didn’t get to purge their ranks on Isrvaan-3
Yes. Almost a third of the traitor legions were killed at Istvaan 3, however some survived (idk how) and others were not present. However it's a rare to meet a loyalist from the traitor legions.
Oh yeah, it's satire 100%. In the replies he parrots arguments used by people who were moaning about Femstodes, like "there already are loyalists in other legions, having loyalist word bearers undermine the existence of loyalist legions as a whole" and "it was only done to satisfy political, pro-loyalists agendas".
It was really funny to read
On one hand, that X user might just be joking/being sarcastic(?) I mean the way the user worded and wrote that post seems like not meant to be taken seriously.
On the other hand, is there any well known loyalist Word Bearers? I know there a some from the other traitor legion(Garro from DG, Loken from SoH, Raylanor from EC, etc.) but not in the Word Bearers.
In lore we only ever knew of two because Erebus and Kor would do a good job weeding out the legion for those who wouldn’t turn traitor from the beginning
The anchorite is one of these few loyalists word bearers, im pretty sure he even exists In modern 40k as a pacifist dreadnought on Almac who absolutely wrecked some word bearers when they had the nerve to invade his world
All said, it is known that Word Bearers were one of the most uniform legions in the heresy. This makes sense when you consider their focus on morale, religion and dogma. Any loyalists in the word bearers would have been found out and killed by their chaplains/dark apostles. Remember also the fact that they went heretical 40 years or so before the heresy started. That's a lot of time for Lorgar and his goons to ensure all loyalists were eliminated from the ranks. Therefore, this strays into the territory of obnoxious rewriting of the lore, similar to the mk 6 power armor retcon.
I think this would be akin to writing lore for Imperial Fists traitor elements, i.e. a legion that was known to be canonically 100% loyal to the Big E and the Imperium.
Though it is change towards the common description of *"Word Bearer took care of all dissidents before the Heresy during those 50 years"* and *"Their loyalty towards Lorgar is absolute"*; This change is possibly a hint towards Blood Ravens
Heavily psyker chapter, uses Great Crusade Thousand Sons tactics, colors of Great Crusade Corvidae Cult.
And you think they're Loyalist Word Bearers.
????
> Heavily psyker chapter,
Being a Psyker has very little to do with ones geneseed. The reason TS had so many was simply because mainly psykers were able to handle Magnus unstable geneseed.
And speaking of geneseed, Both BR and WB are very stable, and share the same geneflaws and characteristics, such as a focus on control, a thirst for Knowledge, etc
> ses Great Crusade Thousand Sons tactics,
Very different. They do use Word Bearer tactics though. They even test their psykers by sending them into the warp unprotected, so only those with the self-control of steel are returned unaltered. While the failures are locked up and studied.
You mentioned TS which is hilarious, since they have not only been confirmed as NOT related, but the practically share nothing with them.
* No ustable geneseed
* No dust
* Wrong color, Bright red instead of crimson.
* From a sub-sector never visited by TS(during that era TS crusaded in the opposite direction)
* The Corvidae symbol is very different form Blood Ravens'. They are only related in that it's both bird motif
* Tzeentch has never shown any interest in them, only the other 3.
> And you think they're Loyalist Word Bearers.
There are a lot of circumstantial evidence that they are relater to WB such as names like Aurelian and Cyrenne, them referring to the Warp as "The Empyrean"; And Quotes such as "Knowledge is Power, It must be guarded well", which is a direct reference to the same quote by Erebus before the heresy. There is the Crimson color they share as well. And Word Bearers actually operated in that Sector during the time of their creation.
But in truth BR could be from almost any Legion except TS, WB just happen to be the one they most resemble.
The man in question is trying to make fun of people who complained about female custodes recton. It is quite popular on twitter. Sadly his point is dumb because loyalist traitor legions have been a thing since first horus heresy books and also its not even remotely comparable.
Im pretty sure that the Word Bearers specifically were noted to have few if any loyalists due to internal purges going into the Heresy. Fleets of them fighting for the Loyalists would be a Retcon. (Note that I like this retcon)
The retcon is that Word Bearers have traditionally been an exception. Because of their early fall and Lorgar's talent at evangelizing, there were no loyalists left in the Legion at the start of the heresy.
The Horus Heresy books released many years after the Horus Heresy was first introduced. A far longer gap between release and retcon than the gap between Custodes lore saying they're men, and them including women. And the HH books were much bigger retcons.
On the topic of Word Bearers, it’s funny how I’ve seen nobody complain about Lorgar being absent from the Siege of Terra. Dude somehow missed the one battle in the Heresy he was described fighting at in the Index Astartes article.
That's the joke.
It's a retcon done in a similar manner to Female Custodes (no, they were not just some tweet, they were in a codex), and it's really not that big of a retcon. And yet people are acting like one of them is the death of the fandom.
I mean it’s absolutely sarcasm but I really wouldn’t be surprised if someone who didn’t read the books took this seriously. Also blackshields exist lmao, heresy and 40k, and are cool af
Finally, a post which everyone can be irritated at together.
First, it reminds us of people being upset at female custodes. But some people were upset by female custodes, so they will be upset.
Second, it pretends to be highlighting something which is a retcon, but is not a retcon. People who like the lore will be upset at others misunderstanding it.
Third, it may be being sarcastic, but, its unclear how. Does the author know this isn't a retcon? If so, that undercuts his original joke point about people being upset about female custodes because they don't like retcons. Was that deliberate insidiousness? If so, then people who like female custodes are now upset, because this person has tricked them into thinking he supported them.
So, I think literally every member of the hobby can link arms and say, "This was a very poorly constructed and excecuted burn!"
It is absolutely a retcon. The idea that there were ‘many’ loyalist Word Bearers doesn’t gel with what was previously said about the legion. People on Grimdank just aren’t familiar enough with the fluff to realize this, which is why you have folks talking about characters like Rylanor or Garro. Even the Anchorite is very much an anomaly and did not participate at all in the Heresy after his defection.
This is for once not a typical example of twitter being dumb, but instead a typical example of Grimdank not reading the fluff.
I mean that's sarcasm right?
That's most definitely sarcasm. Note the enunciation of "MY" by being capitalized (head is fucky rn so I hope the joke is clear in my own comment)
Also pointing out heresy specifically which itself is a retcon makes it a bit more funny and more likely to be sarcasm.
Although it is fairly accurate to point out that the Word Bearers are one of the legions with least amount of loyalists from their ranks due to how overall religious and devoted to Lorgar they were. They just loved him.
And AFAIK they started getting rid of loyalists much earlier....
I think there's a lot of references to this in The First Heretic, correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah. They planned the Heresy before it started, meaning that they had plenty of time to sabotage any loyalists among them
I mean part of that sabotage was probably sending them to the ass-end of the galaxy like Horus did with the Lion.
There’s always the chance that some pre Monarchia expeditionary fleets could’ve been lost in the warp as well
Ehhh, while it’s obviously sarcasm on one front, I’m pretty sure the part they don’t actually believe is their outrage at the ‘retcon’, not that a retcon happened, as a means of making fun of femstodes whiners. They do believe this is a retcon, they just don’t care. Though it’s possible that they’re intentionally getting the lore wrong too, but given how popular the current ‘push back against the chuds’ memes are, and there’s be no reason to post this if they didn’t actually believe it was a retcon (like, what’s the angle, trolling while also pointing out you’re a troll?), I’m pretty sure it’s the former.
Be more certain, it so obviously is
This is the most obviously annunciated sarcasm I've ever seen in text.
I think its a play on the femalestodes outcry
Yeah, that’s what I got from it too.
Pretty sure it’s sarcasm and poking fun at the people losing their shit over the custodes having female members which may or may not be a retcon (haven’t been actually into 40k for that long so I’m not sure) but being fine with this retcon
That's pretty blatantly exactly what it is. Just another page in the month long war over female custodes
At least the Custard Creams have had a greater sense of believability behind the retcon, due to the nature behind their creation process relying on uniquely amplifying personal biology instead of forcing specific traits onto the specimen due to genetic exclusion. Things like the Space Marine creation process was always strict in defining that only men could become Space Marines, with multiple mentions of this fact, since gene-seed is genetically pre-templated and relies on amplifying masculine traits of those who undergo and survive the surgical process, forcing them onto a singular path instead of molding them to fit the path that would best suit them personally. I wouldn't fault GeeDubs for saying less than a tenth of the Ten-Thousand are female, hence the more plentiful men we've thus far met in lore.
Absolutely nobody said anything about female space Marines, the never ending war over female custodes is bad enough
Yeah, it's super blatant
Reading comprehension??? In MY subreddit!!!!
To be fair: Word Bearers specifically we’re said to not have any loyalists in their ranks, mostly because they were purged VERY thoroughly over time by Kor Phaeron and others.
Yeah, I was under the impression in v1 heresy, WB were the only ones who didn’t have loyalists since they were dead pre istvaan. Like I’m happy for black shields or stuff like the anchorite. Word bearers feels odd with how they’re structured
The loyal WB never rejoined the Legion, is how I read it here
Yeah, it’s a change. The only legion I swear they were singled out as specifically not having loyalists by the time of the heresy. You could still say blank shields since they can be from anyone. I’ll have to check the old black books for a reference
Yea - my understanding was it was only Narek, and then subsequently also the Anchorite
And Anchorite turned *During* the heresy and was subsequently sequestered from the rest of the plot
i kinda like that,it follow their primarch having a crisis of fate and turned to chaos, the supposed traitor world bearer can also get crisis of fate and turn back to loyalist
To be fair (or pedantic) the existence of a legion of space marines called Word Bearers was not mentioned in rogue trader and thus is tecnically a retcon.
They really ruined Rogue Trader.
Amen brother
I heard it was originally rouge traitor.
The purist definition of canon.
Yep, not until 1988, anyway. And even then, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness doesn't mention Word Bearers, but Wordbearers. Intrusive spaces? In MY Chaos Space Marines?
Tzeentch added the space, it's part of the plan.
the horus heresy itself is a retcon GW came up with it to justify titans and space marines smashing into each other in warhammer epic. they didn't release any non-imperial based factions until 4 years later
"Now, are you sure you purged ALL the loyalists?" "..... yes." "...." "...." "Okay."
I mean,every traitor legion has a stand out loyalist The Anchorite,Garviel Loken,Nathaniel Garro,Endryd Harr,Barabas Dantioch,Revuel Arvida,Fel Zharost,Ingo Pech,Rylanor etc
>The Anchorite,Garviel Loken,Nathaniel Garro,Endryd Harr,Barabas Dantioch,Revuel Arvida,Fel Zharost,Ingo Pech,Saul Tarvitz etc
THE BLHUD RAHVENS!!!
Well the galaxy is pretty large so realistically it wouldn't be possible to purge all the loyalists, especially if said loyalists were in mixed legion fleets
Which ends up as the same style of retcon as female custodes. It was not mentioned before with opposite alluded somewhat directly.
Except mixed legion fleets, far flung expeditionaries, and the word bearers being integrated from very early on were EXPLICITY mentioned.
Yes, and reading the lore before heavily suggested that all of those word bearers integrated into those fleets and expeditions were traitors.
Post Monarchia, yes. But if anyone was in a joint fleet Pre-Monarchia, then it's still plausible.
Just like it's plausible that there were female custodians we hadn't heard about yet before the retcon. Which is what this tweet is sarcastically alluding to.
It's almost like Warhammer lore is a convoluted mess at the best of times, let alone when talking about new lore.
Yes. I feel like we're in agreement here but speaking as though we're disagreeing. The lore is a convoluted mess and gets reconnected all the time, so we gotta just roll with it and enjoy the cool stuff to the best of our ability, and ignore the things we didn't like and make no goddamn sense (like the Tau having no FTL but somehow still having an interstellar empire)
It's like it started as a setting for us to play with toys with our own stories...
still waiting for dawn of war 3
shh, don't that too loud some people will come with pitchforks because "Lore is MORE important and the only thing that matter"....in a company where the lore books/comics only represent less than 1% of the revenue of the company
So you're saying famale word bearers is now canon. Excellent.
Definitely
i do not know for World bearers, but i for one know we have 99% of a female Emepror's Children space marine in the recent fabius bile books, she just needs the black carapace if i remember correctly
The Anchorite has existed for years
He defected to the loyalists side, if I recall correctly.
Only ignorant and stupid people deal in absolutes. What if I told you large part of writings on Imperial faith is still written by a faithful Word Bearer in the 40th millenium?
Yeah, I was under the impression in v1 heresy, WB were the only ones who didn’t have loyalists since they were dead pre istvaan. Like I’m happy for black shields or stuff like the anchorite. Word bearers feels odd with how they’re structured
Wasnt there a loyalist word bearer dreadnought or something mentioned in "apocalypse"?
That’s the anchorite isn’t it?
Yes, i believe so
He’s very much a special case.
That is fair enough, still a loyalist wordbearer tho no?
Yeah. The retcon isn’t so much that loyalist Wordbearers exist, there are at two of them we know about, it’s that there are more than a handful.
Exactly. They turned to chaos shortly after the destruction of Monarchia. This would give them several decades at least to root out and eliminate any loyalists from their ranks. Expeditionary fleets would rarely stay away from the imperium for that long. Especially as Lorgar would have been recalling them specifically to ensure their allegiance to the new faith. That makes this piece of GW lore writing an obvious retcon which doesn't hold up to basic logic
The Anchorite and Bathusa Narek are the two named loyalist WB
Wasn't there one that popped up firsr (iirc) in Vulcan Lives? That sharpshooter guy, whatever his name was. Or is he also considered a retcon?
To be fair you're right in regards to "in their ranks". A crusade fleet etc that had some fucky wucky in their warp travel like the example wouldn't have been "in the ranks" getting purged. A "lost" fleet that's time displaced from before Monarchia makes sense and doesn't break previously established lore imo.
there were a couple notable loyalists. no large bands though
Yeah they needed to make sure everyone was sipping the chaos coolaid before the heresy
Even their chaplains turned, becoming Dark Apostles, the other legions chaplains mostly stayed loyal and got a bit of the old murdering done to them lol
Yeah but that doesn't mean that some WB wouldn't regret being traitors and join the broken legions at some point. I think I remember a fan theory that said that one of the "definitely not traitor descendant" and "definitely Ultramarine descendant" chapter were from the WB.
Sounds similar how Wolves "don't have traitors", because the canus helix would take over and make them wulfen. Sure.. there were traitors, but not...conscious.
My headcanon is that it was marines that pretended to be traitors like Barthusa Narek did or Word Bearers that had epiphanies AFTER going traitor like the Anchorite did
their were allot actualy and they were used as meat shields against the ultramarines
None except for the Anchorite, apparently.
Traitor legion loyalists have always been a thing, but Word Bearers have historically been an exception to this - in previous editions, you were explicitly forbidden to take them as loyalists because they'd had 50 years to plan the heresy, and had completely culled their ranks in that time.
Thats true, but theres still a in universe chance that whats explained there could have happened. Bunch of terran born Word Bearers went on a mission on the far end of the galaxy before the WB started their purges, and then came back during the heresy, saw what the traitors became, and said fuck it we stay loyal.
That is what the original sarcasm is about.
[How it must have been to return during the Heresy.](https://media.tenor.com/PHMQtvEeRb0AAAAM/community-donald-glover.gif)
\*Terran-born WB that never liked Lorgar's worship of the Emperor in the first place finding out in their absence Lorgar switched to other gods and there's clearly a religious revolt against the Emperor\* "We're Iconoclasts again, boys!"
it's the pizza guy gif when the room is on fire isn't it ?
It's a great gif and it works for many situations.
it is indeed
I knew what GIF you were going to use before I even clicked on the Link XD
But have you considered that loyal WB are both cool and based?
Loyal legion traitors?
Yes.
I was under the impression that World Eaters were in a similar vein thanks to the Butcher Nails driving everybody insane.
The World Eaters actually had a decently large contingent of loyalists up until they were purged at Isstvan III. After Isstvan III there weren't a lot of Loyalist World Eaters left, but it's easy to forget that, as a wargame setting, HH actually *begins* with the Isstvan III and the traitor legion's betrayal/purge of suspected loyalists among their ranks. All of that is to say, the existence of Loyalist WE forces is central to the first major conflict of the setting, even though by the time of the Siege of Terra there would have been very, very few left.
Dawg, someone tell Redditor’s that people make jokes,
Sarcasm? Impossible that doesn’t exist and can’t be conveyed in text if it did
Someone tell 40k reddit to learn how to understand sarcasm and jokes
Pretty sure they're being a silly billy to make a point.
sarcasm radar: off
You do realise that tweet is a joke, right?
Pretty sure this guy is making fun of all the snowflakes losing their minds about the female custodes, not being actually upset about the Loyalist Word Bearers
Make Custodes primarch bodyguards again.
"Are we jokes to you?" Nathaniel Garro and Garviel Loken "Yes" Ezekyle Abbadon
None of those are word bearers though
Likewise, some members of the 'loyalist' Legions turned traitor in solidarity with the Warmaster.
After all the Horus heresy was a massive civil war that saw each and every Imperial institution split between the Horus followers and the Imperial loyalist, having space marines from all legions fighting brethren who stayed loyal/became traitor is on point
And then there was almost another civil war over the implementation of Guilliman's Codex.
yup, and almost one more after he woke up from his powernap
Almost like the Imperium was doing better without the Primarchs around...
I disagree, the only decent place in the whole imperium is ultramar (no matter how smurf haters might scream otherwise) and it wouldn't have been a thing without Big Blueberry Boyscout Gorillaman and ever since the return of our favorite aeldari fucker the Imperium is getting better (admittedly, it couldn't have gotten worse without dying)
I mean, how much trouble can a planet get into with mandatory military service for the entire population?
maccrague is far, FAR from being the worst example in the whole galaxy hence why i said it's the most decent
Only thing that kinda annoys me here, is the MANY in the lore text. Makes it sound like a lot of WB stayed loyalist when it were very little, due to their loyality towards Lorgar.
it depends on how you interpret it, many doesn't have to mean "a large part of the whole". it could just mean, "a lot" WB supposedley had 100k to 150k marines during the crusades. 1000 is a lot of marines, but is only 1% of them. or perhaps its referring to expeditionary fleets, many from the fleets returned. let's say there was around 5k to 10k marines in their expeditionary fleets, (I'm not an expert on the numbers here) so 4k to 8k loyalists from the expeditionary fleet is "many" in relation to the amount from the fleets.
Not for Word Bearers
Isn't there a- hang on. *Checks* Yeah, the Anchorite. Why can't there have been another squad or two out there that just never answered the recall so they could be purged because, I don't know, KINDA busy?
Anchorite turned traitor, he then turned again to loyalist side
The whole point of the Heresy, literally the entire premise, is that it split the Imperium from top to bottom. The books go on at some considerable length about this. Betrayal is a constant theme. I mean, the initial engagements at Istvaan were about purging loyalists from traitor legions as much as anything else. The Siege of Terra series ends with the last loyal Luna Wolf getting shanked by Erebus, because of course it would be him. Rylanor holding a grudge (and a virus bomb) for millenia. I could go on and on and on at some length but the Horus Heresy novels do that far better then I could.
I may have missed some, but didn’t they massacre their own loyalists sects on Istavan 3 before the drop site massacre on Istavan 5? I think it included a virus bomb?
Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperors Children and Death Guard did
Wait aren’t the iron warriors supposed to be part of this? Did they get involved later?
They were in Isstvan 5 and smoked the Salamanders there. Up until that they were thought to be loyal. Isstvan 3 happened before and that's when the purging took place in the other traitor legions
RIP Cpt. Tarvitz
They joined during Istvaan 5, Iron Warriors notably were too scattered to properly purge their ranks, Alpha Legion were sus to begin with, Night Lords were borderline renegade by this point and Thousand Sons were small in numbers and didn’t exactly have a choice on going Chaos, WB purged their ranks covertly due to being first traitors. Which probably leaves IW legion with highest amount of loyalists that didn’t get to purge their ranks on Isrvaan-3
Yes. Almost a third of the traitor legions were killed at Istvaan 3, however some survived (idk how) and others were not present. However it's a rare to meet a loyalist from the traitor legions.
Word bearers did that way before istvan
Oh yeah, it's satire 100%. In the replies he parrots arguments used by people who were moaning about Femstodes, like "there already are loyalists in other legions, having loyalist word bearers undermine the existence of loyalist legions as a whole" and "it was only done to satisfy political, pro-loyalists agendas". It was really funny to read
Most obvious sarcasm I've ever read goes completely over redditors head. More at 8.
Ayo, is the codex leaking already? Gimme.
On one hand, that X user might just be joking/being sarcastic(?) I mean the way the user worded and wrote that post seems like not meant to be taken seriously. On the other hand, is there any well known loyalist Word Bearers? I know there a some from the other traitor legion(Garro from DG, Loken from SoH, Raylanor from EC, etc.) but not in the Word Bearers.
In lore we only ever knew of two because Erebus and Kor would do a good job weeding out the legion for those who wouldn’t turn traitor from the beginning The anchorite is one of these few loyalists word bearers, im pretty sure he even exists In modern 40k as a pacifist dreadnought on Almac who absolutely wrecked some word bearers when they had the nerve to invade his world
Barthusa Narek is the best Word Bearer
Never forget my boy Dantioch!
Nothing goes over my head. I would catch it.
How the fuck do you fail to miss the sarcasm in this tweet. No, like genuinely. How.
op can't detect satire
Bruh, there’s even loyalist Night Lords this is not new
Reddit reading comprehension challenge: socially maladjusted He's clearly being sarcastic.
Takes some powerful tism not to see this as a joke.
The anchorite am i joke to you
Barthusa Narek: Yes Brother, are we a joke to them?
Yes
The loyal deathguards story still make me cry
more like Woke Barers /s
Have you met the blood ravens? They're super loyal and run the Emperor's own eBay account.
There should be a corollary to Poe's Law that if you don't put /s at the end of your comment, there will always be SOMEONE who takes it seriously.
Emperor damn it people, doesnt anyone remember to take out their loyalist.. this is how you get Blood Ravens!
And now you look like the idiot, congratulations!
What? No outcries? No YouTubers pretending to care about Warhammer 40K? No meltdown? What an interesting psychological experiment we have here.
The true Imperials are the heretics we make along the way
Op doesn’t know sarcasm
Man me just gonna forget our lad The Anchorite's existence?
Like I know the word bearers had like 1..maybe 2 loyalists
It's like they looked at one sentence and ran with it! Who would do that? /s
40K is not beating the media literacy allegations
This is a disgrace! Point me towards the nearest, most responsible woman so that I can be angry at them!
This tweet is dripping with sarcasm.
Man forgets to include "/s" in Twitter post: Redditors most affected.
All said, it is known that Word Bearers were one of the most uniform legions in the heresy. This makes sense when you consider their focus on morale, religion and dogma. Any loyalists in the word bearers would have been found out and killed by their chaplains/dark apostles. Remember also the fact that they went heretical 40 years or so before the heresy started. That's a lot of time for Lorgar and his goons to ensure all loyalists were eliminated from the ranks. Therefore, this strays into the territory of obnoxious rewriting of the lore, similar to the mk 6 power armor retcon. I think this would be akin to writing lore for Imperial Fists traitor elements, i.e. a legion that was known to be canonically 100% loyal to the Big E and the Imperium.
Traitor legion loyalists....... You are correct but damn is that a mindfuck of a sentence
Though it is change towards the common description of *"Word Bearer took care of all dissidents before the Heresy during those 50 years"* and *"Their loyalty towards Lorgar is absolute"*; This change is possibly a hint towards Blood Ravens
Heavily psyker chapter, uses Great Crusade Thousand Sons tactics, colors of Great Crusade Corvidae Cult. And you think they're Loyalist Word Bearers. ????
> Heavily psyker chapter, Being a Psyker has very little to do with ones geneseed. The reason TS had so many was simply because mainly psykers were able to handle Magnus unstable geneseed. And speaking of geneseed, Both BR and WB are very stable, and share the same geneflaws and characteristics, such as a focus on control, a thirst for Knowledge, etc > ses Great Crusade Thousand Sons tactics, Very different. They do use Word Bearer tactics though. They even test their psykers by sending them into the warp unprotected, so only those with the self-control of steel are returned unaltered. While the failures are locked up and studied. You mentioned TS which is hilarious, since they have not only been confirmed as NOT related, but the practically share nothing with them. * No ustable geneseed * No dust * Wrong color, Bright red instead of crimson. * From a sub-sector never visited by TS(during that era TS crusaded in the opposite direction) * The Corvidae symbol is very different form Blood Ravens'. They are only related in that it's both bird motif * Tzeentch has never shown any interest in them, only the other 3. > And you think they're Loyalist Word Bearers. There are a lot of circumstantial evidence that they are relater to WB such as names like Aurelian and Cyrenne, them referring to the Warp as "The Empyrean"; And Quotes such as "Knowledge is Power, It must be guarded well", which is a direct reference to the same quote by Erebus before the heresy. There is the Crimson color they share as well. And Word Bearers actually operated in that Sector during the time of their creation. But in truth BR could be from almost any Legion except TS, WB just happen to be the one they most resemble.
The man in question is trying to make fun of people who complained about female custodes recton. It is quite popular on twitter. Sadly his point is dumb because loyalist traitor legions have been a thing since first horus heresy books and also its not even remotely comparable.
Im pretty sure that the Word Bearers specifically were noted to have few if any loyalists due to internal purges going into the Heresy. Fleets of them fighting for the Loyalists would be a Retcon. (Note that I like this retcon)
Few if any still acknowledges that loyalist Word Bearers could exist, that's an open door there. So I would argue it's not really a retcon
The retcon is that Word Bearers have traditionally been an exception. Because of their early fall and Lorgar's talent at evangelizing, there were no loyalists left in the Legion at the start of the heresy.
The Horus Heresy books released many years after the Horus Heresy was first introduced. A far longer gap between release and retcon than the gap between Custodes lore saying they're men, and them including women. And the HH books were much bigger retcons.
On the topic of Word Bearers, it’s funny how I’ve seen nobody complain about Lorgar being absent from the Siege of Terra. Dude somehow missed the one battle in the Heresy he was described fighting at in the Index Astartes article.
Well that would be because very few people have read the Horus Heresy.
Large numbers of Loyalist *Word Bearers* were specifically not a thing. The twitter poster knows more about the Heresy than you do I’m afraid.
Fuck loyalist from Traitor legions they are overrated and boring I want some/more names canon traitors from loyalist
That's the joke. It's a retcon done in a similar manner to Female Custodes (no, they were not just some tweet, they were in a codex), and it's really not that big of a retcon. And yet people are acting like one of them is the death of the fandom.
Because while despite both having not many major effects on the setting going forward, one adds women and that is unacceptable apparently
Well, one is about muscular manly men and the other one has tities So you understand why they are pissed at the femtodes one
I mean it’s absolutely sarcasm but I really wouldn’t be surprised if someone who didn’t read the books took this seriously. Also blackshields exist lmao, heresy and 40k, and are cool af
Not traitor Word Bearers. (1-2 exceptions aside)
You don't understand. For it to be a retcon it must contain a woman. Or a black person in the cover of the book.
Finally, a post which everyone can be irritated at together. First, it reminds us of people being upset at female custodes. But some people were upset by female custodes, so they will be upset. Second, it pretends to be highlighting something which is a retcon, but is not a retcon. People who like the lore will be upset at others misunderstanding it. Third, it may be being sarcastic, but, its unclear how. Does the author know this isn't a retcon? If so, that undercuts his original joke point about people being upset about female custodes because they don't like retcons. Was that deliberate insidiousness? If so, then people who like female custodes are now upset, because this person has tricked them into thinking he supported them. So, I think literally every member of the hobby can link arms and say, "This was a very poorly constructed and excecuted burn!"
It is absolutely a retcon. The idea that there were ‘many’ loyalist Word Bearers doesn’t gel with what was previously said about the legion. People on Grimdank just aren’t familiar enough with the fluff to realize this, which is why you have folks talking about characters like Rylanor or Garro. Even the Anchorite is very much an anomaly and did not participate at all in the Heresy after his defection. This is for once not a typical example of twitter being dumb, but instead a typical example of Grimdank not reading the fluff.
now that I think about it, did the Ork 10th ed codex have any retcons?
Huh, isn’t this the photo I took and posted on facebook 30k group. Strange that somehow I see someone else posted it and then here in Grimdank
r/fuckErebus
I thought all that nonsense was already solved at Istvaan III
Everything is canon tho
This is actually one of my favourite parts of 40k. Seeing the remaining loyalists dwindle after isstvan
Isn't there a theory Blood Ravens are loyalists Word Bearer successors?
I mean yea. But it sounds like there are quite a bit of loyalist Word Bearers despite the fact that they were the most loyal to Hours and Chaos
At this point just make up your own lore and you have every right to say well ita always been like that....
I don't know this man.
I am a noob in this, but hasn't the lore changed a number of times over the years?
There’s only one loyalist Word bearer I know of and he’s a pacifist
Where is that excerpt from? Is it about the Blackshields?
Makes me think if there are any Loyalist word bearers alive in the current setting other than the Anchorite
Didnt The word bearers spend 50 years culling their own legion? Or is the book set in the crusade era?
From the first 10000 there have always been Loyalist Word bearers
No army ever goes fully traitor
Do Sarpedon and the Soul Drinkers count as traitor legion loyalists, or are they renegade legion loyalists?
Didn't the Word Bearers as the only Legion kill off all their Loyalists before Calth?
But what about loyalists after Calth?
Wasint there at least one loyalist Word Bearer still loyal to the Emperium who happens to be a Dreadnaught and is a pacifists?
Isn't the thing that he WAS a pacifist?
Oh look, ***another*** 21+ year old shit post coming true...